Limbach Holdings Inc (LMB) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

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  • Operator

    Operator

  • Good morning and welcome to the Limbach Holdings fourth quarter and full year 2025 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation.

    早安,歡迎參加 Limbach Holdings 2025 年第四季及全年業績電話會議。目前,所有參與者均處於唯讀模式。正式演講結束後將進行問答環節。

  • (Operator Instructions)

    (操作說明)

  • As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. I will now turn the conference over to your host, Lisa Fortuna of Financial Profiles. You may proceed.

    再次提醒,本次會議正在錄影。現在我將把會議交給主持人,來自 Financial Profiles 的 Lisa Fortuna。您可以繼續。

  • Lisa Fortuna - Analyst

    Lisa Fortuna - Analyst

  • Good morning and thank you for joining us today to discuss Limbach Holdings' financial results for the fourth quarter in full year 2025. Yesterday, Limbach issued its earnings release and filed its Form 10k for the period ended December 31, 2025. Both documents as well as an updated investor presentation are available on the investor relations section of the company's website at Limbockinc.com.

    早安,感謝各位今天蒞臨,與我們共同探討林巴赫控股公司2025年第四季的財務表現。昨天,林巴赫公司發布了截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日的收益報告,並提交了 10-K 表格。這兩份文件以及更新後的投資者簡報均可在公司網站 Limbockinc.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

  • Management may refer to select slides during today's call and encourages investors to review the presentation in its entirety.

    管理層可能會在今天的電話會議上提及部分幻燈片,並鼓勵投資者完整地閱讀簡報。

  • On today's call are Michael McCann, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Jayme Brooks, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. We will begin with prepared remarks and then open the call to questions.

    今天參加電話會議的有總裁兼執行長麥可·麥肯,以及執行副總裁兼財務長傑米·布魯克斯。我們將首先作準備好的發言,然後開放提問環節。

  • Before we begin, I would like to remind you that today's comments will include forward-looking statements under the federal securities laws. Forward-looking statements are identified by words such as will, be, intend, believe, expect, anticipate, or other comparable words and phrases.

    在開始之前,我想提醒各位,今天的發言將包含聯邦證券法意義上的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述通常使用諸如“將”、“是”、“打算”、“相信”、“預期”、“預期”等詞語或其他類似詞語和短語來表達。

  • Statements that are not historical facts, such as those about expected financial performance, are also forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from those contemplated by such forward-looking statements.

    並非歷史事實的陳述,例如關於預期財務表現的陳述,也屬於前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與此類前瞻性聲明所預期的結果有重大差異。

  • A discussion of the factors that could cause a material difference in the company's results compared to these forward-looking statements is contained in Limbach's SEC filings, including reports on 10k and 10Q.

    關於可能導致公司績效與這些前瞻性聲明出現重大差異的因素的討論,請參閱 Limbach 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件,包括 10-K 和 10-Q 報告。

  • Please note on today's call, we were referring to non-GAAP measures. You can find the reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in our fourth quarter 2025 earnings release and in our investor presentation, both of which can be found on Limbach's investor relations website and have been furnished in the form 80 filed with the SEC.

    請注意,在今天的電話會議中,我們指的是非GAAP指標。您可以在我們的 2025 年第四季度收益報告和投資者簡報中找到這些非 GAAP 指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調節表,這兩份文件都可以在 Limbach 的投資者關係網站上找到,並且已在提交給美國證券交易委員會的 80 表格中提供。

  • With that, I'll now turn the call over to President and CEO Mike McCann.

    接下來,我將把電話交給總裁兼執行長麥克·麥肯。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Good morning and welcome to our stockholders, analysts, and interested investors. We appreciate you joining us today. Yesterday we reported our fourth quarter in full year 2025 results. But before I get into some of the business highlights.

    各位股東、分析師和有興趣的投資者,早安!感謝您今天蒞臨。昨天我們公佈了2025年全年第四季業績。但在我介紹一些業務亮點之前。

  • I want to recognize all the Limbach team members who deliver safe, quality driven customer solutions. Our strategy is built on the foundation of great people, and this team delivered a record-setting year. I also want to comment on our announcement yesterday.

    我要表揚所有為客戶帶來安全、高品質解決方案的林巴赫團隊成員。我們的策略建立在優秀人才的基礎上,而這支團隊也創造了歷史性的一年。我也想就我們昨天發布的公告發表一些看法。

  • That Will be relocating our headquarters to Tampa, Florida. The relocation of our headquarters at Tampa reflects the fact that a significant portion of our senior leadership team and nearly 40% of our corporate workforce are already based in Tampa.

    我們將把總部遷至佛羅裡達州坦帕市。我們將總部遷至坦帕,是因為我們的高階領導團隊中有相當一部分成員以及近 40% 的公司員工已經在坦帕辦公。

  • Where our presence has grown substantially since establishing the corporate office in 2020. The move marks a milestone of the companies 125th anniversary year and we look forward to the future as. We continue to grow and strengthen our presence in Tampa now turning to our strong results 2025 marked a record year of significant total revenue growth of 24.7%.

    自 2020 年設立公司總部以來,我們的業務規模已大幅成長。此舉標誌著公司成立 125 週年的一個重要里程碑,我們對未來充滿期待。我們繼續發展壯大,鞏固在坦帕的地位。現在來看看我們強勁的業績,2025 年是創紀錄的一年,總收入成長了 24.7%。

  • Notably, it's the first year our revenue has grown substantially since 2020 when we began executing our strategic shift to ODR Our ODRGCER mix for 2025 was 75% ODR and 25% GCR, right in the middle of our guidance range, and a meaningful improvement from 2024's mix of 67% ODR and 33% GCR.

    值得注意的是,這是自 2020 年我們開始實施向 ODR 的策略轉型以來,我們的收入首次大幅成長。我們 2025 年的 ODRGCER 組合為 75% ODR 和 25% GCR,正好在我們指導範圍的中間,並且比 2024 年的 67% ODR 和 33% GCR 的組合有了顯著改善。

  • Total ODR revenue grew by 40.6% with organic ODR revenue growth of 17%, reinforcing organic growth as a major driver of our success total gross margin was 26.2% for 2025 and 28.2%. When excluding all of our acquisitions since 2021, demonstrating their legacy business gross margins remained stable when compared to 2024.

    ODR 總收入成長 40.6%,其中有機 ODR 收入成長 17%,這進一步鞏固了有機成長作為我們成功的主要驅動力的地位。 2025 年總毛利率為 26.2%,2026 年為 28.2%。如果排除 2021 年以來的所有收購,則表明其傳統業務的毛利率與 2024 年相比保持穩定。

  • We reported record full year adjusted EBITDA of $81.8 million within our guidance of $80million to $86 million and a 28.4% increase from 2024. We generated $71.9 million dollars.

    我們公佈了全年調整後 EBITDA 創紀錄的 8,180 萬美元,符合我們先前 8,000 萬美元至 8,600 萬美元的預期,比 2024 年增長 28.4%。我們創造了7190萬美元的收入。

  • In cash from operations excluding working capital in 2025, with 21.4 million generated in Q4, reflecting our high rate of cash flow conversion. In December we authorized a $50 million share reperch program and finally our balance sheet remained strong with only $24.6 million in net debt or a net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio of 0.3 times.

    2025 年經營活動產生的現金(不含營運資金)為 2,140 萬,第四季產生,反映出我們較高的現金流轉換率。12 月,我們批准了一項 5,000 萬美元的股票再融資計劃,最終,我們的資產負債表依然穩健,淨債務僅為 2,460 萬美元,淨債務與調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 0.3 倍。

  • Turning to 2026, we are focused on three strategic core growth pillars which include ODR and organic total revenue growth, market expansion through evolved customer solutions, and scaling the business through acquisitions the first pillar is to grow ODR and organic total evidence.

    展望 2026 年,我們將專注於三大策略核心成長支柱,包括 ODR 和有機總收入成長、透過演進的客戶解決方案擴大市場以及透過收購擴大業務規模。第一個支柱是提高 ODR 和有機總收入。

  • The revenue mix between ODR and GCR to hold steady while we focus on growing total revenue with ODR being the primary growth driver.

    ODR 和 GCR 的收入組成將保持穩定,同時我們將專注於提高總收入,其中 ODR 是主要的成長驅動力。

  • Our strategy for growth to design combined national scale with local execution allowing us to better serve mission critical facilities, we're investing both at the local and national level to accelerate sales, leverage growth.

    我們的成長策略是將全國規模與本地執行相結合,從而更好地服務關鍵任務設施。我們正在本地和全國層面進行投資,以加速銷售,促進成長。

  • We have supported both growth objectives by strategically positioning two seasoned senior executives on accelerating sales. One executive is focused on local sales while the other is responsible for driving national relationships. We believe this strategy will be a key element to supporting our investments and driving growth.

    我們透過策略性地安排兩位經驗豐富的資深主管負責加速銷售,從而支持了這兩個成長目標。一位高階主管專注於本地銷售,另一位高階主管則負責拓展全國業務關係。我們相信,這項策略將是支持我們投資和推動成長的關鍵因素。

  • As we focus on growth, we continue to manage project risk and reward through careful selection based on project size and short life cycle.

    在專注於成長的同時,我們繼續透過根據專案規模和較短生命週期進行謹慎選擇來管理專案風險和回報。

  • In Q3 we discussed in detail our various ODR revenue streams, and as we mentioned, ODR revenue is broken down into two different categories. The first is fixed price projects greater than $10,000 which represented approximately 73% of total ODR revenue for 2025 with an average ODR project size of approximately 240,000.

    在第三季度,我們詳細討論了我們的各種 ODR 收入來源,正如我們所提到的,ODR 收入分為兩個不同的類別。第一類是固定價格項目,金額超過 10,000 美元,約佔 2025 年 ODR 總收入的 73%,平均 ODR 項目規模約為 240,000 美元。

  • The second category is recurring quick burning revenue, which includes maintenance contracts, work orders for small, fixed price jobs less than 10,000, and time material work. In full year 2025, our quick burning revenue represented approximately 27% of total ODR revenue.

    第二類是經常性快速消耗收入,包括維護合約、低於 10,000 的小型固定價格工作訂單以及按工時和材料計費的工作。2025 年全年,我們的快速消耗收入約佔 ODR 總收入的 27%。

  • We've also expanded our GCR gross profit by carefully managing the risk and reward profile as it relates to project size and scope, the average GCR project for 2025 was only $2.6 million.

    我們也透過精心管理與專案規模和範圍相關的風險和回報狀況,擴大了 GCR 的毛利,2025 年 GCR 專案的平均金額僅為 260 萬美元。

  • Our second pillar is marginal expansion to revolve customer solutions. We differentiate ourselves from the competition by being a single source provider for building owners capable of providing comprehensive life cycle engineered solutions. In 2026, we plan to continue to expand our offerings in six differentiated customer solutions, including.

    我們的第二個支柱是邊際擴張,以圍繞客戶解決方案。我們與競爭對手的不同之處在於,我們是建築物業主的一站式供應商,能夠提供全面的生命週期工程解決方案。2026年,我們計劃繼續擴展我們在六項差異化客戶解決方案方面的產品和服務,其中包括:

  • Integrated facility planning service maintenance, equipment replacements and retrofits, to equipment, mechanical, electrical, plumbing and control or MEPC infrastructure upgrades, energy efficiency and decarbonization analysis and projects. Our staff is being trained to bundle customer solutions and deliver long-term value to our clients.

    綜合設施規劃服務維護、設備更換和改造,設備、機械、電氣、管道和控製或 MEPC 基礎設施升級、能源效率和脫碳分析及專案。我們正在培訓員工,讓他們能夠為客戶提供全面解決方案,並為客戶創造長期價值。

  • Each individual transaction may have a different margin profile, but the overall quantity of gross profit, the quality blended market is carefully managed. From 2020 through 2025, our total gross margin for the legacy branch businesses has grown from 14.3% to 28.2%. In total gross profit margin, total gross profit dollars has increased almost 50%, demonstrating that our teams are able to grow total gross profit while simultaneously enhancing margin.

    每筆交易的利潤率可能不同,但毛利的總量和混合市場的品質都經過精心管理。從 2020 年到 2025 年,我們傳統分公司業務的總毛利率從 14.3% 成長到 28.2%。在總毛利率方面,總毛利成長了近 50%,這表明我們的團隊能夠在提高毛利率的同時,實現總毛利的成長。

  • The third pillar, strategic M&A aimed at extending the reach of Limbach brand, strengthening our market presence, and expanding our capabilities. Through targeted acquisitions, we seek to diversify our vertical market exposure and broaden our geographic footprint while adding new offerings that enhance our customer solutions.

    第三支柱是策略性併購,旨在擴大 Limbach 品牌的覆蓋範圍,加強我們的市場地位,並擴大我們的能力。透過有針對性的收購,我們力求垂直市場多元化,擴大地理覆蓋範圍,同時增加新的產品和服務,以增強我們的客戶解決方案。

  • In 2026 we remained selective as we would expect to pursue one to three acquisitions to meet our return thresholds by expanding our geographic footprint and increasing our local service capabilities. Additionally, we are looking for companies that expand our six core customer solutions. We are particularly focused on companies that expand our integrated facility planning solution.

    2026 年,我們仍將保持謹慎,因為我們預計會進行一到三項收購,以擴大我們的地理覆蓋範圍並提高我們的本地服務能力,從而達到我們的回報目標。此外,我們正在尋找能夠擴展我們六大核心客戶解決方案的公司。我們尤其關注那些能夠擴展我們一體化設施規劃解決方案的公司。

  • Due to their deep involvement in the capital planning process, these companies tend to have national relationships in healthcare, data centers, and industrial manufacturing. We believe the synergies between these two types of deals will help us reach our long-term vision to be an indispensable building system solution partner combining national reach with local presence.

    由於這些公司深度參與資本規劃過程,它們往往在醫療保健、資料中心和工業製造領域擁有全國性的關係網絡。我們相信,這兩種交易之間的協同效應將有助於我們實現長期願景,成為不可或缺的建築系統解決方案合作夥伴,將全國範圍與本地化服務相結合。

  • Turning to our last acquisition, Pioneer Power, where the integration is well underway, we have largely completed the first phase of our value creation process centered around system integration.

    再來看看我們最近收購的 Pioneer Power,目前整合工作進展順利,我們以系統整合為中心的價值創造過程的第一階段已經基本完成。

  • Next we are focusing on the second phase of our value creation, which is all about increased gross margin. Key strategic priorities in '26 will include negotiating TNM contracts, measuring margins by revenue size and type while setting specific goals, introducing Limbach sales training and sales enablement resources, identifying cross-selling opportunities by leveraging our respective national account relationships, and aligning resources to most profitable accounts.

    接下來,我們將專注於價值創造的第二階段,即提高毛利率。2026 年的關鍵策略重點包括:談判 TNM 合同,按收入規模和類型衡量利潤率並設定具體目標,引入 Limbach 銷售培訓和銷售賦能資源,利用我們各自的全國客戶關係尋找交叉銷售機會,並將資源集中到最賺錢的客戶身上。

  • We expect marginal improvement at Pioneer to take shape throughout 2026 with exit margins higher than current levels as we start the second phase of our value creation process. We expect the gross margin improvement to continue for the next two to three years until Pioneer's margins reach alignment with the current business.

    我們預計 Pioneer 將在 2026 年逐步改善,隨著我們開始價值創造過程的第二階段,退出利潤率將高於目前的水平。我們預計未來兩到三年內毛利率將繼續改善,直到 Pioneer 的利潤率與當前業務水準相符。

  • Our record for improving margins of acquired companies is best demonstrated by our acquisition of Jake Marshall in December of 2021. At the time of purchase, the gross margin was approximately 13.4%. After four years of executing our value creation model, from gross benchmarking to establishing account focused teams, Kate Marshall's gross margin increased to 28% for 2025.

    我們提高被收購公司利潤率的記錄,最好的證明就是我們在 2021 年 12 月收購了 Jake Marshall。購買時,毛利率約為 13.4%。經過四年的實施,從毛利率基準測試到建立以客戶為中心的團隊,凱特·馬歇爾 (Kate Marshall) 的價值創造模式實現了增長,到 2025 年,其毛利率將達到 28%。

  • Today, Pioneer Power's gross margins is below the level where Jake Marshall was at the time of the acquisition. This is an indication of the meaningful value creation opportunity we have.

    如今,Pioneer Power 的毛利率低於傑克馬歇爾收購該公司時的水平。這顯示我們擁有創造巨大價值的機會。

  • Turning to the macro environment, we experienced positive demand improvement in the fourth quarter across all our verticals. Our institutional markets, healthcare, life science, and higher education rebounded after a softness in the middle of last year. The government shutdown and the DC policy changes caused many of our customers to temporarily pause activities.

    從宏觀環境來看,我們所有垂直領域在第四季度都經歷了積極的需求改善。我們的機構市場、醫療保健、生命科學和高等教育在經歷了去年年中的疲軟之後出現了反彈。政府停擺和華盛頓特區的政策變化導致我們的許多客戶暫時停止了業務活動。

  • However, the subsequent recovery in these verticals allowed us to achieve 24% ODR organic revenue growth in Q4. I'll now make some specific comments on several of our key verticals. In our healthcare vertical market, many customers were spending their leftover budgets while also preparing 2026 normalized spending patterns during the fourth quarter.

    然而,這些垂直領域的後續復甦使我們在第四季度實現了 24% 的 ODR 有機收入成長。接下來,我將針對我們的幾個關鍵垂直領域發表一些具體評論。在我們的醫療保健垂直市場中,許多客戶在第四季一邊花掉剩餘預算,一邊為 2026 年的正常支出模式做準備。

  • Due to the uncertainty of economic conditions in 2025, several national customers have started to engage us much earlier in their planning process. Our unique combination of professional service and installation expertise creates both speed to market and cost certainty advantages.

    由於 2025 年經濟情勢的不確定性,一些國內客戶在規劃過程中很早就開始與我們接觸。我們獨特的專業服務和安裝技術結合,既能加快產品上市速度,又能確保成本,進而帶來許多優勢。

  • As customers are planning their budgets now and given our early involvement in the design and planning process, we anticipate a softer start in 2026 with a revenue building throughout the year. As an example, in late December 1, of our key national healthcare customers called us to help execute a critical infrastructure project.

    由於客戶現在都在製定預算,而且我們很早就參與了設計和規劃過程,我們預計 2026 年的開局會比較平緩,但全年收入會逐步增長。例如,12 月 1 日下旬,我們的一位重要的國家醫療保健客戶聯繫我們,希望我們協助執行一項關鍵的基礎設施專案。

  • The engagement is worth approximately $150 million in contract value across three different hospitals in Florida. For this project we are providing both program management and design build services.

    該合作項目涉及佛羅裡達州的三家不同醫院,合約價值約為 1.5 億美元。我們為該專案提供專案管理和設計建造服務。

  • They chose Limbach because of our demonstrated ability to seamlessly procure, design, and execute a complex project swiftly, whereas the engineering firm who performed the original assessment wasn't able to execute the project fast enough. The project is expected to be designed in the first half of the year with work on site to begin in the second half of 2026.

    他們選擇 Limbach 是因為我們展現出了能夠快速無縫地採購、設計和執行複雜專案的能力,而最初進行評估的工程公司卻無法足夠快地執行該專案。該項目預計將於今年上半年完成設計,現場施工將於 2026 年下半年開始。

  • Shifting to data centers, we have where we have two very strong emerging relationships with hyperscale data center owners. These relationships have been developed due to our successful delivery of projects out of the Columbus, Ohio location over the past several years.

    轉向資料中心領域,我們與超大規模資料中心所有者建立了兩個非常牢固的新興關係。這些關係的建立,得益於過去幾年我們在俄亥俄州哥倫布市成功交付的專案。

  • Given the traction we have achieved and future opportunities with these owners, we've decided to dedicate resources towards building a national vertical marketing focused on data center work. We believe we have the availability of resources and unique skill set to position ourselves thoughtfully in this vertical.

    鑑於我們已取得的進展以及與這些業主未來的合作機會,我們決定投入資源,建立一個專注於資料中心業務的全國性垂直行銷平台。我們相信我們擁有足夠的資源和獨特的技能,能夠在這個垂直領域中進行深思熟慮的定位。

  • As an example of our traction of the data center vertical took place in Q4, where we were awarded a specialty infrastructure project worth approximately 10 million in contract value.

    例如,我們在資料中心垂直領域的進展在第四季度就有所體現,當時我們獲得了一個價值約 1000 萬美元的專業基礎設施項目。

  • The scope of the project is to provide fabricated piping systems directly to the owner. This is the fourth project of this scope, and the owner has expressed interest in further expanding our relationship. We believe we are well positioned to see growth in this vertical in 2026 and beyond.

    此專案的範圍是直接向業主提供預製管道系統。這是第四個同等規模的項目,業主已表示有興趣進一步擴大我們的合作關係。我們相信,我們已做好充分準備,將在 2026 年及以後在該垂直領域實現成長。

  • In 2025, revenue from this vertical is less than 5% of total revenue. Our objective in 2026 to increase vertical market diversity in the business and expanding our data center market contribution is critical to achieving that objective. We see the opportunity for this vertical to represent a meaningful portion of revenue over time.

    到 2025 年,該垂直領域的收入將不到總收入的 5%。我們2026年的目標是增加業務的垂直市場多樣性,而擴大我們在資料中心市場的貢獻對於實現這一目標至關重要。我們認為,隨著時間的推移,這個垂直領域有機會佔據相當可觀的收入份額。

  • In 2025, our industrial manufacturing vertical produced strong and steady results and was less affected by the DC policy concerns. Our recent acquisitions of Pioneer Power and Consolidated Mechanical helped provide us with diversity both from a geographic footprint and vertical market standpoint.

    2025年,我們的工業製造垂直領域取得了強勁且穩定的業績,並且受華盛頓特區政策問題的影響較小。我們最近收購了 Pioneer Power 和 Consolidated Mechanical,這有助於我們在地域覆蓋範圍和垂直市場方面實現多元化。

  • Our work here is conducted primarily via time material shutdown work and small project work. We expect first quarter revenue in this vertical to also be soft due to spending seasonality that traditionally picks up in April.

    我們在這裡的工作主要透過按工時計費的停工檢修和小型專案工作來進行。我們預計,由於消費季節性因素(傳統上4月消費會回升),該垂直領域第一季的營收也將疲軟。

  • Our success in 2026 will be driven by our ability to accelerate sales and leverage our previous investments. We expect our revenue and earnings to be weighted to the second half of the year, with growing confidence in the sales growth demonstrated by fourth quarter bookings of $225 million compared to $187 million in total revenue during the quarter, giving us visibility into 2026.

    我們在 2026 年能否取得成功,將取決於我們能否加快銷售速度並充分利用我們先前的投資。我們預計營收和利潤將主要集中在下半年,第四季預訂金額達到 2.25 億美元,而當季總收入為 1.87 億美元,這體現了我們對銷售成長的日益增長的信心,也讓我們對 2026 年的前景有了更清晰的認識。

  • Moving to our 2026 guidance, we expect revenue of between $730million to $750 million implying year over year growth of 13% to 17% adjusted even of $90million to $94 million, implying year over year growth of 10% to 16%.

    展望 2026 年,我們預計營收將在 7.3 億美元至 7.5 億美元之間,年增 13% 至 17%;即使調整後營收在 9,000 萬美元至 9,400 萬美元之間,年增 10% 至 16%。

  • Underlying that guidance, we have used the following assumptions total organic revenue growth of 4% to 8% ODR organic revenue growth of 9% to 12%. We expect ODR is a percent of total revenue in the range of 75% to 80% reflecting the stabilization of the mixed shift.

    在該指導原則的指導下,我們採用了以下假設:總有機收入成長 4% 至 8%,ODR 有機收入成長 9% 至 12%。我們預期 ODR 佔總收入的百分比在 75% 到 80% 之間,反映出混合模式轉變的穩定性。

  • Total growth margin of 26% to 27% SNA expense as a percent of total revenue to be 15% to 17% and free cash flow to be 75% of adjusted EBITDA for 2026 with significant cash use for operations at Q1 due to the timing of incentive compensation, insurance, and tax payments with strong cash generation building during the remaining quarters of the year.

    總成長利潤率為 26% 至 27%,SNA 費用佔總收入的百分比為 15% 至 17%,2026 年自由現金流為調整後 EBITDA 的 75%,由於激勵性薪酬、保險和稅款支付的時間安排,第一季營運現金使用量較大,但今年剩餘季度將實現強勁的現金產生。

  • As investors and analysts' model 2026, it's important to note that our first quarter tends to be the slowest quarter of the year due to seasonality and customer spending patterns. We expect first quarter revenue to be similar to last year. We lower adjusted EBITDA due to higher SG&A in 2026.

    投資者和分析師在預測 2026 年業績時,需要注意的是,由於季節性因素和消費者支出模式,我們第一季往往是一年中最淡的季度。我們預計第一季營收將與去年同期持平。由於 2026 年銷售、管理及行政費用 (SG&A) 較高,我們下調了調整後的 EBITDA。

  • Additionally, we don't expect Q1 of 2026 to have the same gross margin write-ups of 900,000 that we had in Q1 of 2025 and as previously stated, we expect the second half of the year to be stronger than the first half. As our booking momentum from last year converts into revenue, we expect revenue growth to accelerate in Q3 and Q4.

    此外,我們預計 2026 年第一季不會像 2025 年第一季那樣出現 90 萬的毛利調整,正如之前所說,我們預計下半年的業績將比上半年更好。隨著去年預訂勢頭轉化為收入,我們預計第三季和第四季營收成長將加速。

  • With that, I'll turn over to Jamie to walk through the financials in more detail, Jayme.

    接下來,我將把麥克風交給傑米,讓她更詳細地講解一下財務狀況。

  • Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

    Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

  • Our Form 10k and earnings press release filed yesterday provides comprehensive details of our financial results, so I will focus on the highlights of the fourth quarter and full year. All comparisons are for the fourth quarter and full year 2025 versus fourth quarter and full year 2024 unless otherwise noted.

    我們昨天提交的 10-K 表格和收益新聞稿提供了我們財務業績的全面細節,因此我將重點介紹第四季度和全年的亮點。除非另有說明,否則所有比較均指 2025 年第四季和全年與 2024 年第四季和全年的比較。

  • Starting with the fourth quarter, we generated total revenue of $186.9 million compared to $143.7 million in 2024. Total revenue growth was 30.1% while ODR revenue grew 51.8% to $145 million of the total ODR revenue growth rate, 27.9% was from the acquisitions and 23.9% was organic.

    從第四季開始,我們的總營收為 1.869 億美元,而 2024 年為 1.437 億美元。總營收成長了 30.1%,其中 ODR 營收成長了 51.8%,達到 1.45 億美元;在 ODR 總營收成長率中,27.9% 來自收購,23.9% 來自內生成長。

  • GCR revenue decreased 13% to $41.9 million, of which 26.1% was a decrease in organic revenue as designed as we continued our makeshift towards ODR, offset by 13.1% growth in revenue from acquisitions ODR revenue accounted for 77.6% of total revenue for the fourth quarter, up from 66.5% in 2024.

    GCR 營收下降 13% 至 4,190 萬美元,其中 26.1% 為有機收入下降,這是我們繼續向 ODR 轉型過程中預期的結果,但被收購收入成長 13.1% 所抵銷。 ODR 營收佔第四季總營收的 77.6%,高於 2024 年的 66.5%。

  • Total gross profit for the quarter increased 10.4% from $43.6 million to $48.1 million, reflecting the ongoing growth of our ODR segment.

    本季總毛利成長 10.4%,從 4,360 萬美元增至 4,810 萬美元,反映了我們 ODR 業務的持續成長。

  • Total gross margin on a consolidated basis was 25.7%, down from 30.3% in 2024, primarily driven by the impact of Pioneer Power. As we previously communicated, our acquisition integration strategy is focused on improving the acquired company's gross margin to align with our broader operating model over multiple years.

    合併後的總毛利率為 25.7%,低於 2024 年的 30.3%,主要原因是 Pioneer Power 的影響。正如我們先前所溝通的,我們的收購整合策略重點是在未來幾年內提​​高被收購公司的毛利率,使其與我們更廣泛的營運模式保持一致。

  • ODR gross profit comprised 76% of total gross profit dollars, or $36.4 million. ODR gross profit increase 19.1% or $5.8 million, driven by higher sales volume partially offset by lower ODR segment margin of 25.1% compared to 32.1% in a year ago period.

    ODR毛利佔總毛利的76%,即3,640萬美元。毛利成長 19.1% 或 580 萬美元,主要得益於銷售量增加,但部分被 ODR 業務利潤率下降所抵消,ODR 業務利潤率為 25.1%,而去年同期為 32.1%。

  • The decrease in segment margin was primarily attributable to Pioneer Power's lower gross margin profile CR gross profit decreased 10.2% or 1.3 million due to lower revenues gross margin increased from 26.9% to 27.8%, driven by our ongoing focus on higher quality projects SG&A expense for the fourth quarter was $28 million an increase of approximately 2.3% from $27.4 million.

    分部利潤率下降主要歸因於 Pioneer Power 較低的毛利率。由於收入下降,CR 毛利下降了 10.2%,即 130 萬美元。毛利率從 26.9% 提高到 27.8%,這得益於我們持續專注於更高品質的專案。第四季的銷售、一般及行政費用為 2,800 萬美元,比 2,740 萬美元增加了約 2.3%。

  • The increase was primarily attributable to incremental costs associated with Pioneer Power and Consolidated mechanical. Consolidated Mechanical was part of the company for one month in the fourth quarter last year, and Pioneer Power was not part of the company during the fourth quarter last year.

    成長主要歸因於 Pioneer Power 和 Consolidated Mechanical 相關的增量成本。去年第四季度,Consolidated Mechanical 曾是該公司的一部分,為期一個月;而去年第四季度,Pioneer Power 並非該公司的一部分。

  • As a percentage of revenue, SG&A expense decreased to 15% of total revenue as compared to 19.1%, primarily due to the increased revenue from Pioneer Power. Interest expense increased $0.3 million to $0.8 million compared to $0.5 million in the prior quarter, driven by higher borrowings under the company's revolving credit facility to partially finance the Pioneer Power's acquisition, as well as higher financing costs associated with the larger vehicle fleet.

    銷售、一般及行政費用佔總收入的百分比從 19.1% 下降到 15%,主要是由於 Pioneer Power 的收入增加。由於公司根據循環信貸額度借款增加,用於部分資助收購 Pioneer Power,以及與更大的車隊相關的融資成本增加,利息支出從上一季的 50 萬美元增加到 80 萬美元。

  • Net income for the quarter increased 25% from $9.8 million to $12.3 million and earnings per diluted share grew 24.4% from $0.82 to $1.02. Adjusted net income grew 22.6% from $13.8 million to $16.9 million and adjusted earnings per diluted share grew 21.7% from $1.15 to $1.40.

    本季淨利成長25%,從980萬美元增至1,230萬美元;稀釋後每股收益成長24.4%,從0.82美元增至1.02美元。調整後淨利成長22.6%,從1,380萬美元增至1,690萬美元;調整後稀釋後每股收益成長21.7%,從1.15美元增至1.40美元。

  • Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter increased 30.8% to $27.2 million compared to $20.8 million. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 14.6% compared to 14.5% in Q4 last year. Turning to cash flow, our operating cash inflow during the fourth quarter was $28.1 million compared to $19.3 million in the year ago period, driven by higher net income in 2025, along with slight improvement in working capital.

    本季調整後 EBITDA 成長 30.8%,達到 2,720 萬美元,上一季為 2,080 萬美元。經調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 14.6%,而去年第四季為 14.5%。再來看現金流,第四季我們的經營現金流入為 2,810 萬美元,而去年同期為 1,930 萬美元,這主要得益於 2025 年淨收入的增加以及營運資本的略微改善。

  • Free cash flow defined as cash flow from operating activities, excluding changes in working capital minus capital expenditures, excluding our investment in additional rental equipment was $21.1 million in the fourth quarter compared to $16.6 million in Q4 last year, representing a $4.5 million increase. The free cash flow conversion of adjusted EBITA for the quarter was 77.5% versus 79.9% last year.

    自由現金流定義為經營活動產生的現金流量,不包括營運資本變動減去資本支出,不包括我們對額外租賃設備的投資,第四季為 2,110 萬美元,而去年同期為 1,660 萬美元,增加了 450 萬美元。本季調整後 EBITA 的自由現金流轉換率為 77.5%,去年同期為 79.9%。

  • Now turning to the full year 2025 total revenue increased 24.7%, or $128 million to $646.8 million from $518.8 million, primarily due to the acquisitions of Pioneer Power Consolidated Mechanical in Kent Island of the total percentage increase, acquisition related revenue represented 21% or 109.1 million, and organic revenue represented 3.6% or $18.9 million.

    現在來看看 2025 年全年總營收成長 24.7%,即 1.28 億美元,從 5.188 億美元增至 6.468 億美元,這主要是由於收購了肯特島的 Pioneer Power Consolidated Mechanical 公司。在總成長百分比中,收購相關收入佔 21%,即 1.091 億美元,有機收入佔 3.6%,即 1,890 萬美元。

  • ODR revenue increased 40.6% or $140.2 million to $485.7 million, with acquisition related revenue representing 23.6% of the increase, or $81.4 million while organic revenue represented 17% or $58.8 million. GCR revenue decreased 7% or 12.2 million to 161.1 million.

    ODR 營收成長 40.6%,即 1.402 億美元,達到 4.857 億美元,其中收購相關收入佔成長的 23.6%,即 8,140 萬美元,而有機收入佔 17%,即 5,880 萬美元。GCR 收入下降 7% 或 1220 萬,至 1.611 億。

  • Organic revenue represented 23% of the decrease, or $39.9 million decline as the company continued its strategic mixed shift to ODR offset by acquisition-related revenue growth of 16% or $27.7 million.

    有機收入佔總收入下降的 23%,即下降 3,990 萬美元,原因是該公司繼續進行向線上直接收入 (ODR) 的策略性混合轉型,但收購相關的收入成長 16%(即 2,770 萬美元)抵消了這一下降。

  • Total gross profit increased 17.4% to $169.3 million compared to $144.3 million, and total gross margin was 26.2%, a decrease from 27.8% in 2024, primarily due to the impact of Pioneer Power's lower gross margin and total net project write-ups of $5.8 million recognized in 2024 compared to $1 million in 2025.

    總毛利成長 17.4%,達到 1.693 億美元,而 2024 年為 1.443 億美元;總毛利率為 26.2%,低於 2024 年的 27.8%,主要原因是 Pioneer Power 的毛利率較低,以及 2024 年的 27.8%,主要原因是 Pioneer Power 的毛利率較低,以及 2024 年確認的總淨項目為 580 萬美元。

  • ODR gross profit increased 20.5% or $22.1 million to $129.9 million from $107.8 million, while gross margin decreased to 26.7% from 31.2%, primarily due to the impact of Pioneer Power's lower margin profile and ODR-related project write-ups of $3.9 million recognized in 2024 that did not recur in 2025.

    ODR 毛利成長 20.5% 或 2,210 萬美元,從 1.078 億美元增至 20.5% 或 2,210 萬美元,從 1.078 億美元增至 1.299 億美元,而毛利率從 31.2% 降至 26.7%,這主要是由於 Pioneer Power 利潤率較低以及 2024 年確認的與 ODR 相關的 395 年增值(該增值)在 2020 萬所致

  • GCR gross profit increased 8% or $2.9 million to $39.4 million from $36.5 million, and gross margin increased to 24.5% from 21.1%, driven by the company's intentional focus on higher quality projects. SG&A expense increased by approximately $12.3 million to $109.5 million compared to $97.2 million in the prior year period.

    GCR 的毛利成長了 8%,即 290 萬美元,從 3,650 萬美元增至 3,940 萬美元,毛利率從 21.1% 增至 24.5%,這主要得益於公司有意識地專注於更高品質的專案。銷售、一般及行政費用較上年同期的 9,720 萬美元增加了約 1,230 萬美元,達到 1.095 億美元。

  • Of the increase, $9.3 million of the increase was attributable to incremental costs associated with Pioneer Power, Consolidated Mechanical, and Kent Island. Consolidated Mechanical was part of the company for only one month last year. Kent Island was part of the company for four months, and Pioneer was not part of the company during the entirety of last year.

    其中,930萬美元的成長是由於Pioneer Power、Consolidated Mechanical和Kent Island相關的增量成本造成的。去年,Consolidated Mechanical 僅作為該公司的一部分存在了一個月。Kent Island 曾是該公司的一部分,為期四個月;而 Pioneer 在去年全年都不屬於該公司。

  • The remaining SG&A increase of $3 million is attributable to the existing business. SG&A expense increased primarily due to a $1.2 million increase in non-cash stock-based compensation expense and a $1.1 million increase in bad debt expense associated with the write-up of certain customer receivables that were deemed uncollectible.

    剩餘的 SG&A 費用增加 300 萬美元是由於現有業務造成的。銷售、一般及行政費用增加主要是由於非現金股票選擇權費用增加 120 萬美元,以及與某些被認為無法收回的客戶應收帳款相關的壞帳費用增加 110 萬美元。

  • SG&A expense as a percentage of revenue decreased to 16.9% compared to 18.7%, primarily due to increased revenue resulting from the Pioneer Power acquisition.

    銷售、一般及行政費用佔收入的百分比從 18.7% 下降至 16.9%,主要是由於收購 Pioneer Power 帶來的收入增加。

  • Interest expense increased $1.3 million from $1.9 million to $3.1 million due to higher borrowings under the company's revolving credit facility to partially finance the Pioneer Power acquisition, as well as higher financing costs associated with our larger vehicle fleet.

    由於公司根據循環信貸額度借款增加,以部分資助對 Pioneer Power 的收購,以及與更大的車隊相關的更高融資成本,利息支出從 190 萬美元增加到 310 萬美元,增加了 130 萬美元。

  • Net income increased 26.5% to $39.1 million from $30.9 million and diluted earnings per share increased 25.7% to $3.23 compared to $2.57 in the prior year.

    淨利潤成長 26.5%,從 3,090 萬美元增至 3,910 萬美元;稀釋後每股收益成長 25.7%,從上年的 2.57 美元增至 3.23 美元。

  • Adjusted net income increased 26% to $54.5 million compared to $43.2 million and adjusted diluted earnings per share increased 25.3% from $3.60 to $4.51. Adjusted EBITDA increased 28.4% to $81.8 million compared to $63.7 million, and adjusted EBITDA margin was 12.6% compared to 12.3%. Our operating cash flow for the full year was $45.7 million compared to $36.8 million in the prior year.

    經調整後的淨利潤增長26%至5450萬美元,而去年同期為4320萬美元;經調整後的攤薄後每股收益增長25.3%,從3.60美元增至4.51美元;經調整後的EBITDA增長28.4%至8180萬美元,而去年同期為6370萬美元;本年度經營現金流量為 4,570 萬美元,而上年同期為 3,680 萬美元。

  • Free cash flow defined as cash flow from operating activities excluding changes in working capital minus capital expenditures excluding our investment in additional rental equipment was $70.1 million for 2025 compared to $52.3 million in 2024, representing a $17.8 million increase. The free cash flow conversion of adjusted EBITDA for the year was 85.7% versus 82.1% in 2024.

    自由現金流定義為經營活動產生的現金流量,不包括營運資本變動,減去資本支出,不包括我們對額外租賃設備的投資。 2025 年自由現金流為 7,010 萬美元,而 2024 年為 5,230 萬美元,增加了 1,780 萬美元。本年度調整後 EBITDA 的自由現金流量轉換率為 85.7%,而 2024 年為 82.1%。

  • As Mike mentioned, for full year 2026, we continue to target a free cash flow conversion rate of at least 75% of adjusted EBITDA and expect CapEx to have a run rate of approximately $5 million. At this time, we don't anticipate any additional investments in our rental fleet.

    正如麥克所提到的,對於 2026 年全年,我們繼續以調整後 EBITDA 的自由現金流轉換率至少達到 75% 為目標,並預計資本支出將達到約 500 萬美元的運作水準。目前,我們暫不計劃對租賃車隊進行任何額外投資。

  • Turning to our balance sheet, as of December 30th, we had $11.3 million in cash and cash equivalents and total debt of $35.9 million which includes $10 million borrowed on a revolving credit facility hedged at a rate of approximately 5.37%. As a reminder, at the end of June last year, we expanded our revolving credit facility from $50 million to $100 million in principal amount borrowings.

    再來看我們的資產負債表,截至 12 月 30 日,我們有 1,130 萬美元的現金及現金等價物,總債務為 3,590 萬美元,其中包括根據循環信貸安排借入的 1,000 萬美元,對沖利率約為 5.37%。提醒一下,去年 6 月底,我們將循環信貸額度從 5,000 萬美元增加到 1 億美元(本金借款額)。

  • On July 1, we used a combination of cash and revolver proceeds of approximately $40 million to fund the Pioneer Power acquisition.

    7 月 1 日,我們動用了約 4,000 萬美元的現金和循環信貸資金,用於收購 Pioneer Power。

  • During the quarter we paid down the revolving credit facility $24.5 million to the hedged amount of $10 million and as of December 30, our total liquidity defined as cash and availability on a revolving credit facility was $96.3 million.

    本季我們償還了循環信貸額度 2,450 萬美元,使對沖金額達到 1,000 萬美元。截至 12 月 30 日,我們的總流動性(定義為現金和循環信貸額度的可用資金)為 9,630 萬美元。

  • With this expanded facility and our expected strong cash generation, our balance sheet remains strong, and we believe we are well positioned to support our continued organic growth initiatives, strategic M&A, and opportunistic share repurchases.

    憑藉擴建後的設施和我們預期強勁的現金流,我們的資產負債表依然穩健,我們相信我們有能力支持我們持續的內生成長計畫、策略併購和機會性股票回購。

  • That concludes our prepared remarks. Operator, you may begin the Q&A.

    我們的發言稿到此結束。操作員,您可以開始問答環節了。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • (Operator Instructions) Christopher Moore with CJS Securities. Please proceed with your question.

    (操作員說明)克里斯托弗·摩爾,CJS證券公司。請繼續提問。

  • Christopher Moore - Analyst

    Christopher Moore - Analyst

  • Hey, good morning guys, thanks for taking a couple so Mike, I might have missed a little bit of it. Can you talk a little bit more about the investment or specific steps you're taking, to take advantage of the of the data center opportunity?

    嘿,早上好各位,謝謝你抽出時間,所以麥克,我可能錯過了一些內容。您能否詳細介紹一下您為抓住資料中心機會而進行的投資或採取的具體措施?

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Yeah, absolutely. So one thing, that's going to be, I think, really important to our strategy, and we started this last year as well too, is really building three national vertical market teams, healthcare, and in some sense that's been our proof point, industrial manufacturing and data center and when we think about the way that customers buy.

    是的,絕對的。所以有一件事,我認為對我們的策略來說非常重要,而且我們去年也開始著手做這件事,那就是真正建立三個國家垂直市場團隊:醫療保健(在某種程度上,這已經成為我們的證明點)、工業製造和數據中心,以及當我們思考客戶的購買方式時。

  • They buy some stuff locally, but I think from a national perspective and a capital planning perspective, it's a lot advantageous for us even from a resource perspective. So, from a data center market specifically, we've had some really good success in the Columbus, Ohio market.

    他們會在當地購買一些東西,但我認為從國家層級和資本規劃層面來看,即使從資源角度來看,這對我們來說也是非常有利的。所以,具體到資料中心市場,我們在俄亥俄州哥倫布市市場取得了非常好的成功。

  • With a few different customers, and we always like to prove things out before we really make sure that we go all in from an investment perspective, but as I referenced in the prepared remarks, it's our fourth project that we were recently awarded, and that customer and a couple customers are starting to tell to us based on your availability of resources, your unique combination of engineered solutions with your ability to install and fabricate.

    我們與幾位不同的客戶合作,我們總是喜歡在真正投入全部資金之前先驗證一下,但正如我在準備好的發言稿中提到的,這是我們最近獲得的第四個項目,這位客戶和幾位客戶開始告訴我們,基於你們的資源可用性、你們獨特的工程解決方案與你們的安裝和製造能力。

  • We think we're really in a great position not just in the Columbus market but in other markets as well too, and some of that will be overlapped from a geographic footprint perspective and some of that might be providing services just like we do in healthcare and other geographies as well too, so we think it's a really good opportunity. We've been patient, and I think we're at a point now we want to dedicate some resources and we hope this vertical becomes a meaningful portion of our revenue over time.

    我們認為我們不僅在哥倫布市場,而且在其他市場也處於非常有利的地位,其中一些市場在地理覆蓋範圍上會有重疊,其中一些市場提供的服務可能與我們在醫療保健和其他地區提供的服務類似,因此我們認為這是一個非常好的機會。我們一直很有耐心,我認為現在我們已經到了想要投入一些資源的時候了,我們希望隨著時間的推移,這個垂直領域能夠成為我們收入中的一個重要組成部分。

  • Christopher Moore - Analyst

    Christopher Moore - Analyst

  • Got it, and you could see that potentially in a few years that could be your number two vertical.

    明白了,而且你可以看到,幾年後它有可能成為你的第二個垂直領域。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • We're going to see how it goes. We think there's tons of potential though. I mean, the spending of these customers, and we're really all in on these three verticals healthcare, industrial manufacturing data center, but we think it's also a great opportunity of an avenue from a diversity perspective as well too, so we're pretty bullish on it.

    我們拭目以待。我們認為它潛力巨大。我的意思是,這些客戶的消費能力,以及我們真正專注於醫療保健、工業製造和資料中心這三個垂直領域,但我們認為從多元化的角度來看,這也是一個絕佳的機會,所以我們對此非常看好。

  • Christopher Moore - Analyst

    Christopher Moore - Analyst

  • Got it. In terms of the ODR organic guide, 9% to 12% pioneer in terms of the back half of '26, is there any organic from Pioneer embedded in the 9% to 12%?

    知道了。就 ODR 有機指南而言,先鋒公司在 2026 年下半年的有機份額為 9% 至 12%,這 9% 至 12% 中是否包含先鋒公司的有機份額?

  • Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

    Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

  • Yeah, so after, the first half of the year, then it becomes part of our organics. Because of the acquisition date was July 1, of last year.

    是的,所以上半年過後,它就成為我們有機產品的一部分了。因為收購日期是去年7月1日。

  • Christopher Moore - Analyst

    Christopher Moore - Analyst

  • Exactly, I just wasn't sure if you're assuming much growth from Pioneer. I'm just trying to get a sense in terms of how that business is going and if you assume some growth there later in the year as part of that, as part of your 9% to 12%.

    沒錯,我只是不確定你是否預期 Pioneer 會有很大的成長。我只是想了解這家企業的經營狀況,以及您是否假設今年稍後會有一些成長,作為您 9% 到 12% 成長的一部分。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Yeah, no, just a couple of things on Pioneer as well too. Our focus for sure, obviously we want to see growth in them, but I think the gross profit improvement, as is equally if not more important than really seeing from a revenue perspective, several different things.

    是的,不,Pioneer 上也只有幾件事。當然,我們關注的重點肯定是這些領域的成長,但我認為毛利的改善與收入的成長同等重要,甚至更重要,這其中有許多因素。

  • We are moving past the phase one, which is really that system integration people process getting the accounting system switched over and I think we're really focused, especially in the back half of the year from a gross profit perspective, a couple things that I'll really hit on that we're going to focus on is number one, our ability to push resources towards their best account.

    我們正進入第一階段,也就是係統整合階段,也就是會計系統切換階段。我認為我們非常關注下半年的毛利,我會專注於以下幾點:第一,我們將把資源集中投入最佳客戶。

  • Look at metrics from a year over year perspective, revenue types, getting on our accounting system allows us to do this, utilization of sales resources as well as too, so we're really looking to deploy the full breadth of our value creation process and really that's really getting into the phase two imp implementation. So in the back half of the year we've got to be our focus.

    從同比角度看指標、收入類型,透過我們的會計系統,我們可以做到這一點,銷售資源的利用情況也是如此,所以我們真的希望全面部署我們的價值創造流程,而這實際上就是進入第二階段實施。所以下半年我們必須集中精力。

  • It's still going to take some time. Got to go back and renegotiate some contracts. You've got to reintroduce yourself from a customer standpoint. So, we've seen some real positive things and we're looking, I think, not just in '26 but in '27 and '28 of really seeing that business get to the point where it matches the other legacy businesses from a margin perspective. We think it's a really good opportunity.

    這還需要一些時間。得回去重新談判一些合約。你需要從客戶的角度重新介紹自己。所以,我們已經看到了一些非常積極的方面,我認為,我們不僅在 2026 年,而且在 2027 年和 2028 年,都希望看到這項業務在利潤率方面真正達到與其他傳統業務相同的水平。我們認為這是一個非常好的機會。

  • Christopher Moore - Analyst

    Christopher Moore - Analyst

  • Perfect I'll leave it there. I appreciate it guys.

    完美,我就說到這裡吧。謝謝大家。

  • Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

    Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

  • Thank you, Chris.

    謝謝你,克里斯。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • (Operator Instructions) Robert Brown with Lake Street Capital Markets. Please proceed with your question.

    (操作說明)羅伯特·布朗,來自 Lake Street Capital Markets。請繼續提問。

  • Robert Brown - Analyst

    Robert Brown - Analyst

  • Good morning. Moving up on the organic growth, I know you've guidance for a year, but what longer-term, how do you see the organic growth in the ODR segment once you sort of get pioneer integrated and the business is running? What sort of the long-term organic growth, I think in the past you said it didn't have any last 20%.

    早安.關於有機成長,我知道你們有一年的業績指引,但從長遠來看,一旦先鋒企業整合完畢,業務步入正軌,你們如何看待 ODR 領域的有機增長?你說的長期有機成長是指什麼?我記得你以前說過,最近 20% 沒有成長。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Sure, last year we were at 17%. We had a strong finish in Q4, and this year we're guiding to 9 to 12. I think we're really focusing only on 26% from that perspective, but we're also trying to think about what our real normalized growth rate from an organic revenue perspective is as well too.

    當然,去年我們的佔比是 17%。我們在第四季度取得了強勁的收官成績,今年我們預計業績將達到 9 到 12 場。我認為從這個角度來看,我們真正關注的只有 26%,但我們也試著從有機收入的角度來思考我們真正的正常成長率是多少。

  • And I, and I think about our growth trajectory as we look forward, our ability to still get really strong local results, we're going to continue to invest and support our sellers that we've really invested in the last three years as well too.

    展望未來,我認為我們的成長軌跡以及我們繼續取得強勁的本地業績的能力,都將繼續投資並支持我們在過去三年中投入大量資金的賣家。

  • The other thing too is, I think from a national vertical market perspective, our access to capital and driving different decision makers and being a national provider, that's going to be an avenue as well too, so we're really focused on that '26, but we're obviously looking forward to see what the what the normalized level is and what I would say also from an opportunity perspective too.

    另一方面,我認為從國家垂直市場的角度來看,我們獲得資本、影響不同的決策者以及作為國家供應商的優勢,也將是一條途徑,所以我們非常關注2026年,但我們顯然也期待看到正常水平是多少,以及從機會的角度來看,這又意味著什麼。

  • Robert Brown - Analyst

    Robert Brown - Analyst

  • Okay, got it. And then I think you talked about pretty strong bookings in Q4 above, above the run rate. How is that compared to normal and, it seems like the environment's getting better, maybe a sense of just how the bookings are coming in and what you see for the next.

    好的,明白了。然後,我想你上面也提到了第四季預訂量非常強勁,高於往年同期水準。與正常情況相比如何?而且,環境似乎正在好轉,也許可以了解一下預訂情況以及你對未來的看法。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Yeah, so one of the things that we've learned as we continue to transition the business backlog is a factor, but sales bookings are really what we look from a business perspective. In Q4 we, booked $225 million versus $187 million in revenue in Q4, 1.2 ratio.

    是的,我們在不斷調整業務積壓訂單的過程中了解到,銷售訂單量雖然是一個因素,但從業務角度來看,我們真正關注的是銷售訂單。第四季度,我們確認營收為 2.25 億美元,而上一季營收為 1.87 億美元,比率為 1.2。

  • I mean anything in our opinion above one obviously shows that there's some forward trajectory in the business as well too, so, we like. When the bookings are more than the revenue, we think we're starting to make, we turn the corner from a sales perspective. We've learned a lot from a sales perspective, and I think we're really starting to turn the corner.

    我的意思是,在我們看來,任何高於一分的東西都明顯表明該業務也有一定的發展趨勢,所以,我們喜歡。當預訂量超過收入時,我們認為從銷售角度來看,我們就迎來了轉機。從銷售的角度來看,我們學到了很多,我認為我們真的開始扭轉局面了。

  • I think the other thing too that we saw a little bit in Q4 was, our ability to get involved early and sometimes that may be from customers that looked at strained budgets from 2025 and really starting to plan effectively. I would say specifically in the healthcare vertical market were.

    我認為我們在第四季度還看到了一點變化,那就是我們能夠及早介入,有時這可能是因為客戶考慮到 2025 年的預算緊張,並開始進行有效的規劃。我覺得尤其是在醫療保健垂直市場。

  • Definitely involve much more from a planning perspective we're starting to understand where customers spend. I think probably the 3rd different quarter in a row we reported kind of a national healthcare provider giving us multiple projects that were born out of facility assessments as well too, so, we think we're turning the corner, and, we're looking forward obviously from continue to look at that sales bookings versus revenue is a key indicator.

    從規劃的角度來看,肯定需要更多參與其中,我們開始了解客戶的消費習慣。我想這可能是我們連續第三個季度都收到來自全國性醫療保健提供者的多個項目,這些項目也是基於設施評估而產生的。因此,我們認為我們正在扭轉局面,而且我們顯然會繼續專注於銷售訂單與收入之間的關係,這是一個關鍵指標。

  • Okay, thank you. I'll turn it over.

    好的,謝謝。我把它翻過來。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • (Operator Instructions) Gerry Sweeney with Roth Capital Partners. Please proceed with your question.

    (操作員說明)Gerry Sweeney,Roth Capital Partners。請繼續提問。

  • Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

    Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

  • Good morning, Jayme and Mike. Thanks for taking my call.

    傑米和麥克,早安。謝謝您接聽我的電話。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Good morning.

    早安.

  • Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

    Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

  • Just stand on the topic of growth, obviously earlier in January you announced, two new positions, EVP of sales and the national customer solutions, head of national customer.

    就成長這個主題而言,顯然,您在一月份早些時候宣布了兩個新職位,分別是銷售執行副總裁和全國客戶解決方案負責人。

  • How does this sort of play into the strategy and of growth and it feels as though you're sort of maybe maturing into a maybe a different, position of growth. I just wanted to see how this all plays together and maybe drive some opportunity down the line.

    這種發展方式如何影響策略和成長?感覺你似乎正在走向成熟,進入一個不同的成長階段。我只是想看看這一切是如何相互作用的,也許能從中挖掘出一些未來的機會。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Yeah, I think one thing that's really important from a messaging perspective, local and national, they're both really important to us, so, and we thought to ourselves. The best way to make sure that we're going to get the results is to take two proven executives and make sure that they're assigned specifically to that task.

    是的,我認為從訊息傳遞的角度來看,有一件事非常重要,無論是在地方層面還是國家層面,這對我們來說都非常重要,所以我們就想。確保取得成果的最佳方法是挑選兩位經驗豐富的管理人員,並確保他們專門負責這項任務。

  • So, one of them is going to be working on sales enablement. Really, how do we, we've invested about 100 to 120 sales people over the last three years. How do we support them with tools, training? How help we, how do we help them actually deliver those sales, and we're really excited to have that particular focus.

    所以,其中一人將負責銷售賦能工作。真的,我們該怎麼做呢?在過去三年裡,我們投資了大約 100 到 120 名銷售人員。我們如何透過工具和培訓來支持他們?我們如何幫助他們,如何幫助他們真正實現這些銷售目標?我們很高興能夠專注於這個特定領域。

  • The other individuals focused on national accounts. In some organizations that may be two different roles for us it's so important that we want to make sure we have two different executives working on it, and I think the other thing too, it's not like these two were working kind of independently from that perspective.

    其他人則專注於國民帳戶。在某些組織中,這可能是我們扮演的兩個不同的角色,因此確保由兩位不同的高階主管負責這項工作非常重要。而我認為,從這個角度來看,這兩個人並不是各自獨立工作的。

  • They have independent focus, but there's lots of synergies as well too, so I really, and I think that's why it's important, that we've got people that understand the business.

    他們各自專注於自身業務,但也有很多協同效應,所以我認為,擁有了解業務的人才非常重要,這也是為什麼這一點很重要。

  • So, I think when we start to mature, having that ability to sell at the national level and from a national reach geographic and as well as being able to deliver from a local geographic footprint perspective, we think that's going to be one thing that's going to make us really differentiated and really continue to elevate where we're at from as far as from a customer experience perspective.

    所以,我認為當我們開始走向成熟時,擁有在全國範圍內銷售產品的能力,並且能夠從本地地理覆蓋範圍的角度進行交付,我們認為這將是讓我們真正脫穎而出,並從客戶體驗的角度繼續提升我們水平的關鍵因素之一。

  • Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

    Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

  • How much of your sales has come from sort of a national accounts opportunity or is it much, has it been much more on the local front?

    你們的銷售額有多少來自全國性客戶機會?還是說大部分來自本地市場?

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • I would say the majority have been local we've had lots of opportunities over the years from a national perspective, but we haven't had that focus. At the end of the day, the national customers, I don't care if it's data center, industrial manufacturing, or from a healthcare perspective, they want to see a seamless experience and when they see a seamless experience, they're more willing to allocate more capital.

    我認為大部分機會都來自本地,這些年來我們從全國範圍上有很多機會,但我們並沒有把重點放在這方面。歸根結底,無論是資料中心、工業製造還是醫療保健領域的客戶,他們都希望獲得無縫的體驗;當他們獲得無縫的體驗時,他們更願意投入更多資金。

  • So, sometimes even from a local perspective we can only take it so far with the local team. The top person at one of these, mission critical facilities could be the facility manager, and all of those corporate decisions get made at a headquarters office and, we've had some success with healthcare that we feel like we can extend that, but I would say a lot of the sales have been local. Our opportunity is that we have a combination of local and national.

    所以,有時候即使從本地角度來看,我們和本地團隊也只能做到這一步。這些關鍵任務設施的最高負責人可能是設施經理,所有這些公司決策都是在總部辦公室做出的,我們在醫療保健領域取得了一些成功,我們覺得我們可以將這種成功擴展到醫療保健領域,但我認為很多銷售都是在本地進行的。我們的優勢在於我們擁有本地和全國性的資源。

  • Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

    Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

  • Got you. And then just one more queue question on acquisitions. Listen, I think you're looking at, maybe getting into different areas like integrated facilities, opportunities, and there's a lot of companies out there that sort of fit in that space, that maybe even purchase for hire multiple. S

    抓到你了。最後還有一個關於收購的問題。聽著,我認為你可能正在考慮進入不同的領域,例如綜合設施、機會等等,有很多公司都符合這個領域,甚至可能購買或租賃多個設施。S

  • o, one question maybe with an A&B aspect, I mean, do you continue to go after these opportunities or will you have to pay up for these opportunities and secondarily, does it make sense to maybe shift away from the pioneer powers where it takes multiple years to sort of integrate it into your system and go after acquisitions that are more like right down the middle like a fully integrated facility type acquisition so in other words, buying, paying up a little bit for an opportunity right in your wheelhouse versus maybe fixing one up.

    哦,還有一個問題,可能跟A&B方面有關。我的意思是,你會繼續追求這些機會,還是必須為這些機會付出代價?其次,放棄那些需要多年才能整合到你係統中的先鋒企業,轉而追求更直接的收購,比如完全整合的設施收購,換句話說,就是購買,稍微多花點錢,就能獲得你擅長的機會,而不是去改造一個現有的企業。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Yeah, so we look at it as important. Our long-term objective is to be an indispensable partner building owners with national reach and local presence. So, when you think about national reach from an acquisition perspective, our ability to invest in companies from an integrated facility planning perspective, they could be professional service companies, they're the ones that are going to have some of these relationships. They're going to be from a planning perspective we think that's really important.

    是的,所以我們認為這很重要。我們的長期目標是成為建築業主不可或缺的合作夥伴,擁有全國性的影響力和在地化的服務。所以,從收購的角度來看,當我們考慮全國範圍時,從綜合設施規劃的角度來看,我們有能力投資於公司,這些公司可能是專業服務公司,它們將擁有一些這樣的關係。從規劃的角度來看,我們認為這一點非常重要。

  • When I think about the concept of local presence. You're still going to need that geographic footprint as well too, so I don't think it's a question of one or the other. It's a question of combining the two of them together and making sure these acquisitions fit with that long-term projective. Obviously from a geographic footprint perspective, the multiple may be different than from an integrated facility planning perspective.

    當我思考在地化存在的概念。你仍然需要一定的地理覆蓋範圍,所以我認為這不是二選一的問題。關鍵在於將兩者結合起來,並確保這些收購符合長期發展計畫。顯然,從地理佔地面積的角度來看,這個倍數可能與從綜合設施規劃的角度來看有所不同。

  • But our endgame remains the same. Buying companies, great companies with great people that can ultimately achieve our long-term objective and making sure there's a really good fit we're not just buying assets and compiling them we're making sure that they're really smartly integrated from a strategy perspective.

    但我們的最終目標依然不變。收購公司,收購擁有優秀人才的優秀公司,這些公司最終能夠實現我們的長期目標,並確保它們真正契合。我們不僅僅是收購資產並將其整合,而是確保從戰略角度來看,它們能夠真正巧妙地整合在一起。

  • Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

    Gerry Sweeney - Analyst

  • Got it. I appreciate it thanks.

    知道了。非常感謝。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Thanks, Gerry.

    謝謝你,傑瑞。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • (Operator Instructions) Ryan Brophy with Stifle. Please proceed with your question.

    (操作說明)Ryan Brophy 與 Stifle。請繼續提問。

  • Brian Brophy - Analyst

    Brian Brophy - Analyst

  • Yeah, thanks, good morning, everybody, just following up on the national account discussion here, in the past you talked about going from 20 MSAs to 40 MSAs and then pursuing national accounts. Now it seems like you're leaning into it a little bit more heavily, but we haven't obviously hit that 40 MSA number.

    是的,謝謝,大家早上好,我只是想跟進一下關於全國客戶的討論,過去你們談到要從 20 個大都會統計區擴展到 40 個大都會統計區,然後再爭取全國客戶。現在看來你們似乎更加重視這件事了,但我們顯然還沒有達到 40 個 MSA 的目標數字。

  • So, can you talk about what's driving that change and just confidence level and being able to secure some of these despite not having a larger footprint?

    那麼,您能否談談推動這種變化的因素,以及信心水平的提升,以及在規模不大的情況下如何能夠獲得其中一些機會?

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Yeah, so, we've looked at it, and we've really tested our paradigms on this as well too, so we've realized, I think, especially in the healthcare and I think we're going to see the same thing in the data center, it's great that we're in a geographic location, it's almost an added benefit, but we can still provide a suite of services as an example, we can still provide, design built services even if we're not in a geographic footprint as well too. So, I think about when we think about future MSAs.

    是的,我們已經研究過了,也確實測試過我們的模式,所以我們意識到,我認為,尤其是在醫療保健領域,而且我認為在數據中心領域也會看到同樣的情況,擁有地理位置固然很好,這幾乎是一種額外的優勢,但即使我們沒有固定的地理位置,我們仍然可以提供一系列服務,例如,我們仍然可以提供設計構建的服務。所以,我想到我們何時會考慮未來的大都會統計協議。

  • We're looking for overlap of national customers because not only can we provide high level program management design build services we get an added benefit from an installation process as well too so I think really we're still going to need geographic footprint, but if we can combine with a national account presence, it's going to accelerate the opportunity within not only the acquisition that we purchased but also from a national vertical market perspective we're going to be really strategic from those MSAs.

    我們正在尋找與全國客戶重合的客戶,因為我們不僅可以提供高水平的專案管理設計建造服務,還可以從安裝過程中獲得額外收益,所以我認為我們仍然需要地域覆蓋,但如果我們能夠與全國性客戶群相結合,這將加速我們收購的公司的機遇,而且從全國垂直市場的角度來看,我們將真正從這些MSA(大統計行動區)中採取大戰略性。

  • Brian Brophy - Analyst

    Brian Brophy - Analyst

  • Got it, that's helpful. And then do you have a sense, or can you give us a sense of how much of the growth in the guide is related to capitalizing on some of this national account opportunity or should we expect to see more of these benefits in '27?

    明白了,這很有幫助。那麼,您能否大致說明一下,該指南中的成長有多少與利用這些國家客戶機會有關,或者我們是否應該期待在 2027 年看到更多此類收益?

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • I think to really for it to really take off it's going to be '27. I think there's some built in, but I think it's really going to be this year is focusing on from a selling perspective. So, some of the stuff you've asked questions about the healthcare jobs that we sold last year, well those are obviously going to revenue this year.

    我認為要真正起飛,那將是 2027 年。我認為其中已經包含了一些內在因素,但我認為今年真正的重點將是銷售方面。所以,你們問到的一些關於我們去年出售的醫療保健工作的問題,很顯然,這些職位今年都會轉化為收入。

  • But we're going to see some of it, I think in the back half of the year, but I think the real opportunity from a from excess in capital being able to burn the work, I think that's going to be as much of a '27, even more so than a '26 perspective.

    但我認為,我們將在今年下半年看到一些這樣的情況,但我認為,真正的機會在於利用過剩的資本來燒掉那些工作,我認為這更體現在 2027 年,甚至比 2026 年更為明顯。

  • Brian Brophy - Analyst

    Brian Brophy - Analyst

  • Okay, that's helpful and then just one clarifying, question on the data center opportunity, are you still focused on existing buildings here or are you starting to get into new construction at this point?

    好的,這很有幫助。那麼,關於資料中心的機會,我還有一個需要澄清的問題,你們目前仍然專注於現有建築,還是已經開始涉足新建專案了?

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • We're focused on existing building. There's been situations we've been able to provide infrastructure, from a carve out perspective. A lot of the work is direct to owner, so I think that's one thing that we're super focused on. I think as we get into these relationships we're going to make sure, we're always getting the right risk adjusted returns too.

    我們專注於現有建築。在某些情況下,我們可以從特殊角度提供基礎設施。很多工作都是直接面對業主,所以我覺得這是我們非常關注的一點。我認為,隨著我們建立這些關係,我們將確保始終獲得正確的風險調整後效益。

  • I think we want to make the smart business decision as well too, so we're going to look at the opportunity, and we're going to make sure that it makes sense with our strategy.

    我認為我們也想做出明智的商業決策,所以我們會認真考慮這個機會,並確保它符合我們的策略。

  • Brian Brophy - Analyst

    Brian Brophy - Analyst

  • Appreciate it, I'll pass it on.

    謝謝,我會轉達的。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • (Operator Instructions) Tomo Sio with JP Morgan. Please proceed with your question.

    (操作說明)Tomo Sio 與摩根大通合作。請繼續提問。

  • Thomas Sio - Analyst

    Thomas Sio - Analyst

  • Good morning, Mike, Jayme.

    早安,麥克,傑米。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Good morning.

    早安.

  • Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

    Jayme Brooks - Chief Financial Officer, Executive Vice President

  • Good morning.

    早安.

  • Thomas Sio - Analyst

    Thomas Sio - Analyst

  • Thank you. Could you please provide an update on the integrations of Pioneer Power and share a concrete and timelines, milestones for gross margin improvement? Additionally, what lessons have you learned from previous integrations such as Jake Marshall regarding driving a margin improvement out to acquired businesses, please?

    謝謝。請您提供 Pioneer Power 整合的最新進展,並分享具體的時間表和毛利率提升的里程碑?此外,您從先前的整合案例(例如 Jake Marshall 的案例)中吸取了哪些經驗教訓,才能提高被收購企業的利潤率?

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Yeah, absolutely. So there's a couple of different pieces of information that we provided. One of them, I mentioned the prepared remarks, but it's also in, slide 18 in our deck as well too. So, a couple things, we're at the point from a pioneer power perspective we're really wrapping up phase one integration, and we've learned from past deals the sooner we can get through phase one, the better, and a lot of times that's directly related around the accounting system upgrade.

    是的,絕對的。所以我們提供了幾個不同的資訊。其中之一,我提到了準備好的發言稿,但它也包含在我們的簡報的第 18 張幻燈片中。所以,有幾件事,從先鋒電力公司的角度來看,我們現在已經基本完成了第一階段的整合,我們從過去的交易中了解到,越早完成第一階段越好,很多時候這與會計系統升級直接相關。

  • We've, we just want to get that out of the way. We want to accelerate that process that allows us to see numbers. It's a big change management piece that we try to get through. So, I think at this point we're really focused from a phase two implementation perspective. So, we try, we tried to provide some additional information that we thought would be helpful for investors just to kind of show the trajectory from a Jake Marshall perspective.

    我們,我們只是想先把這件事解決掉。我們希望加快這一進程,以便能夠看到相關數據。這是我們正在努力克服的重大變革管理難題。所以,我認為目前我們主要關注的是第二階段的實施。所以,我們嘗試提供一些我們認為對投資者有幫助的額外信息,以便從傑克馬歇爾的角度展示發展軌跡。

  • Jake Marshall, at approximately at the time of purchased a 13.4% gross profit. At the end of 2025 they were approximately 28.1%. So a tremendous increase in gross profit. One thing we learned from Jake Marshall is our phase one got pretty extended. We didn't really switch over the accounting system for 12 months and we learned that we wanted to get that out of the way as quickly as possible. So that's one of the lessons learned we applied.

    傑克馬歇爾在購買時毛利率約為 13.4%。到 2025 年底,這一比例約為 28.1%。因此,毛利大幅成長。我們從傑克馬歇爾學到的一點是,我們的第一階段持續時間相當長。我們花了 12 個月的時間才真正完成會計系統的切換,我們意識到我們需要盡快解決這個問題。所以這是我們學習並應用的教訓之一。

  • The second lesson learned that we applied is we want to be in front of the customers as soon as possible. We want to listen to customers. We want to have joint meetings. We've already started that process from a pioneer power perspective last year, and we want that to build into additional. Part of the reason for that is we want to learn what their pain points are, what kind of value are we bringing, so we can then propose a different solutions that can drive margins as well too.

    我們學到的第二個教訓是,我們希望盡快出現在客戶面前。我們想聽聽客戶的意見。我們希望舉行聯合會議。去年我們已經從先鋒力量的角度開始了這一進程,我們希望將其發展成更多。部分原因是,我們想了解他們的痛點是什麼,我們帶來了什麼樣的價值,這樣我們就可以提出不同的解決方案,也能提高利潤率。

  • Sometimes there's an opportunity to raise margins. But margins with value is much more better from a long-term customer perspective as well too, so we want to be, I think the focus, especially at the beginning of the year, hopefully we see impact in the second half of the year is get in front of customers, making sure we're focused on them, listening to what they want, and then propose solutions that can drive margins hopefully in the back half of the year and really start to impact in '27.

    有時候會有機會提高利潤率。但從長遠客戶的角度來看,有價值且利潤率更高的產品也更好,所以我認為,尤其是在年初,我們希望重點放在與客戶接觸上,確保我們關注他們,傾聽他們的需求,然後提出能夠提高利潤率的解決方案,希望在下半年能夠真正開始產生影響。

  • So, when I look at the trajectory from a gross margin perspective, we have that Jake Marshall example our objective, of course, is we, how can we accelerate that timeline but still implement those lessons learned.

    所以,從毛利率的角度來看,我們有傑克馬歇爾的例子,我們的目標當然是,我們如何才能加快這一進程,同時又能吸取這些經驗教訓。

  • Thomas Sio - Analyst

    Thomas Sio - Analyst

  • Thank you, Mike, and follow-up on gross margins to achieve 26%, 27% gross margin guidance, what are the most material risks and uncertainties you're monitoring for 2026 and how you're preparing the business to navigate potential headwinds?

    謝謝 Mike,關於毛利率要達到 26% 或 27% 的目標,您認為 2026 年最主要的風險和不確定因素是什麼?您是如何讓公司做好準備以應對潛在的不利因素的?

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Sure, so we're very focused on making sure that we're smart from a risk perspective. So, one of the things too, if you look at our, both our owner direct fixed price projects greater than 10,000, still an average project size of 240,000. GCR projects are an average project size in 2025 of $2.6 million, so we really try to make sure that the projects have a shorter duration as possible that allows us to flex and ebb as well too.

    當然,所以我們非常注重從風險角度出發,確保我們做出明智的決策。所以,還有一點,如果你看一下我們,我們業主直接固定價格項目大於 10,000,平均項目規模仍然為 240,000。GCR 專案在 2025 年的平均專案規模為 260 萬美元,因此我們努力確保專案的持續時間盡可能短,以便我們也能靈活調整。

  • So, that's always been very important from a strategy perspective, and I would say maybe from a holistic perspective is a lot of our model really comes down to our ability to sell.

    所以,從策略角度來看,這一點一直都非常重要。而且我認為,從整體角度來看,我們許多模式的本質都在於我們的銷售能力。

  • That's why from a Q4 perspective our ability to sell $225 million versus ravening $187 million is to us is an important step, I think as we continue to sell work we really want to evaluate from a risk perspective as well too so it's a careful balance, but those are probably the two things that we really look at and are always looking for opportunity to improve gross margin.

    因此,從第四季的角度來看,我們能夠實現 2.25 億美元的銷售額,而不是之前的 1.87 億美元,對我們來說是一個重要的進步。我認為,隨著我們繼續銷售產品,我們也需要從風險的角度進行評估,所以這是一個需要謹慎權衡的問題。但這兩點可能是我們真正關注的重點,我們一直在尋找提高毛利率的機會。

  • Thomas Sio - Analyst

    Thomas Sio - Analyst

  • Thank you, appreciate it.

    謝謝,感激不盡。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • And we have reached the end of the question-and-answer session, and now I'll turn the call back over to Mike McCann for closing remarks.

    問答環節到此結束,現在我將把電話交還給麥克·麥肯,請他作總結發言。

  • Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

    Michael McCann - President, Chief Executive Officer, Director

  • In closing, our strategic priorities for 2026 are the following ODR organic revenue growth and total revenue growth, marginal expansion to evolve customer solutions, smart capital allocation scale for acquisitions. Over the past several years, the company has transitioned from a typical ENC contractor with single-digit EBITDA margins to a predominantly ODR-based platform with strong free cash flow conversion operating with very minimal leverage.

    最後,我們 2026 年的策略重點如下:ODR 有機收入成長和總收入成長,透過小幅擴張來改善客戶解決方案,以及透過合理的資本配置規模進行收購。過去幾年,該公司已從典型的 EBITDA 利潤率個位數的 ENC 承包商轉型為以 ODR 為基礎、自由現金流轉換率高、槓桿率極低的平台。

  • The structural shift is largely complete, and our focus is now on growth. Every acquisition since 2021, Jake Marshall, Acme Industrial Air, Ken Island Consolidated Mechanical, and Pioneer Power was sourced on a proprietary basis and was strategically aligned with our specialized value approach, cultural fit, and niche expertise across our verticals. All of our acquisitions were underwritten at multiples of 5times to 6 times adjusted EBITDA.

    結構轉型已基本完成,我們現在的重點是成長。自 2021 年以來,我們收購了 Jake Marshall、Acme Industrial Air、Ken Island Consolidated Mechanical 和 Pioneer Power,所有收購都是基於專有原則進行的,並且在策略上與我們專業的價值方法、文化契合度和我們在各個垂直領域的專業知識相一致。我們所有的收購都按調整後 EBITDA 的 5 倍至 6 倍進行承銷。

  • And with the operational improvements we make, the ultimate multiple paid is lowered by the growth in EBITDA. Through a repeatable playbook, we improve margins and use resulting cash generation, delever, and redeploy capital. The company has expanded its adjusted EBITDA margin from 14.4% to 12.6% since 2020, and our leverage sits at just 0.3 times.

    隨著我們營運方式的改進,EBITDA 的成長降低了最終支付的倍數。透過可重複實施的策略,我們提高利潤率,並利用由此產生的現金流量、降低槓桿率和重新部署資本。自 2020 年以來,公司調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率已從 14.4% 提高到 12.6%,槓桿率僅 0.3 倍。

  • And we maintain nearly $100 million of liquidity, all while meaningfully increasing the quality and margin of the business. At Limbach, we're building a long-term business model focused on delivering durable value over time. We bring a unique combination of engineered expertise and direct execution with building owners.

    我們保持了近 1 億美元的流動資金,同時顯著提高了業務品質和利潤率。在 Limbach,我們正在建立一個以長期創造持久價值為核心的長期商業模式。我們擁有獨特的工程技術專長,並能與業主直接合作執行專案。

  • Through long-term consultant relationships. We help our customers deliver multi-year capital plans that extend beyond traditional backlog. We believe this differentiated approach positions us well for sustained growth and shareholder value creation. On March 22 through 24, we're attending the Roth conference in California, and we hope to see some of you there.

    透過建立長期的顧問關係。我們協助客戶制定超越傳統積壓訂單的多年資本計畫。我們相信,這種差異化策略將使我們處於持續成長和創造股東價值的有利地位。3月22日至24日,我們將參加在加州舉行的羅斯大會,希望在那裡見到你們中的一些人。

  • Thank you again for your interest in Limbach and have a great day.

    再次感謝您對林巴赫的關注,祝您有美好的一天。

  • Operator

    Operator

  • This concludes today's conference and you may disconnect your lot at this time. We thank you for your participation. Have a great day.

    今天的會議到此結束,您可以斷開您的裝置連線了。感謝您的參與。祝你有美好的一天。