Limbach Holdings Inc (LMB) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Limbach Holdings third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) I will now turn the conference over to your host, Lisa Fortuna of Financial Profiles. You may proceed.

早上好，歡迎參加 Limbach Holdings 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）現在我將把會議交給主持人，來自 Financial Profiles 的 Lisa Fortuna。您可以繼續。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today to discuss Limbach Holdings' financial results for the third quarter of 2025. Yesterday, Limbach issued its earnings release and filed its Form 10-Q for the period ended September 30, 2025. Both documents as well as an updated investor presentation are available on the Investor Relations section of the company's website at limbachinc.com.

早安，感謝各位今天蒞臨我們節目，共同探討林巴赫控股公司2025年第三季的財務表現。昨天，林巴赫公司發布了收益報告，並提交了截至 2025 年 9 月 30 日的 10-Q 表格。這兩份文件以及更新後的投資者簡報均可在公司網站 limbachinc.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

Management may refer to select slides during today's call and encourages investors to review the presentation in its entirety. On today's call are Michael McCann, President and Chief Executive Officer; and Jayme Brooks, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.

管理層可能會在今天的電話會議上提及部分幻燈片，並鼓勵投資者完整地閱讀簡報。參加今天電話會議的有總裁兼執行長麥可·麥肯，以及執行副總裁兼財務長傑米·布魯克斯。

We will begin with prepared remarks and then open the call to questions. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that today's comments will include forward-looking statements under federal securities laws. Forward-looking statements are identified by words such as will, be, intend, believe, expect, anticipate, or other comparable words and phrases.

我們將首先作準備好的發言，然後開放提問環節。在開始之前，我想提醒各位，今天的發言將包含聯邦證券法規定的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述通常使用諸如“將”、“是”、“打算”、“相信”、“預期”、“預期”等詞語或其他類似詞語和短語來表達。

Statements that are not historical facts such as those about expected financial performance are also forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from those contemplated by such forward-looking statements.

並非歷史事實的陳述，例如關於預期財務表現的陳述，也屬於前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與此類前瞻性聲明所預期的結果有重大差異。

A discussion of the factors that could cause a material difference in the company's results compared to these forward-looking statements is contained in Limbach's SEC filings, including reports on Form 10-K and 10-Q. Please note that on today's call, we will be referring to non-GAAP measures.

關於可能導致公司績效與這些前瞻性聲明出現重大差異的因素的討論，請參閱 Limbach 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括 10-K 表格和 10-Q 表格的報告。請注意，在今天的電話會議中，我們將提及非GAAP指標。

You can find the reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in our third quarter 2025 earnings release and in our investor presentation, both of which can be found on Limbach's Investor Relations website and have been furnished in the Form 8-K filed with the SEC. With that, I'll now turn the call over to President and CEO, Mike McCann.

您可以在我們的 2025 年第三季財報和投資人簡報中找到這些非 GAAP 指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的調節表，這兩份文件都可以在 Limbach 的投資者關係網站上找到，並且已在提交給美國證券交易委員會的 8-K 表格中提供。接下來，我將把電話交給總裁兼執行長麥克·麥肯。

Good morning, and welcome, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. At Limbach, we play a critical role as an enterprise provider of building system solutions, ensuring the reliability and continuity of mission-critical infrastructure across our customers' facilities. We're focused on industries with long-term durable demand where facility assets simply cannot fail. We believe our distinct capabilities position us to deliver sustained growth and attractive risk-adjusted returns.

各位早安，歡迎各位。感謝您今天蒞臨。作為建築系統解決方案的企業供應商，Limbach 發揮著至關重要的作用，確保客戶設施中關鍵基礎設施的可靠性和連續性。我們專注於那些擁有長期穩定需求的產業，在這些產業中，設施資產絕對不能故障。我們相信，我們獨特的優勢使我們能夠實現持續成長和具有吸引力的風險調整後收益。

As a reminder, our growth strategy is underpinned by three core pillars. The first pillar is scaling our owner-direct relationships or ODR business. Here, we're focused on working in partnership with owners of mission-critical facilities in existing building environments. This work consists mostly of routine maintenance, emergency repairs, small capital projects, and larger retrofit and renovation projects. Some of this work is contractual and some is predictable given the age and complexity of mechanical systems.

再次提醒大家，我們的成長策略以三大核心支柱為基礎。第一個支柱是擴大我們與業主直接聯繫或線上爭議解決 (ODR) 業務的規模。在這裡，我們專注於與現有建築環境中關鍵任務設施的所有者合作。這項工作主要包括日常維護、緊急維修、小型資本項目以及大型改造和翻新項目。其中一些工作是合約規定的，而另一些工作則是考慮到機械系統的年代和複雜性而可以預見的。

The second pillar is enhancing profitability and increasing wallet share through the introduction of expanded product and service offerings. We have strong and growing relationships with our owner-direct customers built on daily performance, trust and our vast knowledge of their critical building systems.

第二大支柱是透過推出更多產品和服務來提高獲利能力和增加市場佔有率。我們與直接面向業主的客戶建立了牢固且不斷發展的關係，這種關係建立在日常業績、信任以及我們對他們關鍵建築系統的廣泛了解之上。

As a result, there is a win-win opportunity for us to expand our service offerings to these customers by introducing new capabilities to solve a greater breadth of issues for owners. As our capability expand over time, we can deliver more value to both the owner and Limbach. Unlike traditional E&C firms that rely on reactive bidding in response to a project, we're seeing these facilities every day providing solutions.

因此，我們有機會透過引入新的功能來解決業主更廣泛的問題，從而擴大我們為這些客戶提供的服務範圍，實現雙贏。隨著我們能力的不斷提升，我們可以為業主和林巴赫公司創造更多價值。與傳統的工程建設公司依靠被動投標來回應專案不同，我們每天都能看到這些公司提供解決方案。

By working directly with owners, we have a better grasp of risk and value. In order to further leverage these relationships, we're formalizing a scalable structure by building a proactive sales team that positions Limbach as a building system solutions provider.

透過與業主直接合作，我們能夠更了解風險和價值。為了進一步利用這些關係，我們正在透過組建一支積極主動的銷售團隊來正式建立一個可擴展的架構，將 Limbach 定位為建築系統解決方案提供者。

The third pillar is strategic M&A aimed at extending the reach of the Limbach brand, strengthening our market presence and expanding our capabilities. Through targeted acquisitions, we seek to diversify our vertical market exposure and broaden our geographic footprint while adding new products and offerings that align well with our ODR value proposition.

第三支柱是策略性併購，旨在擴大 Limbach 品牌的覆蓋範圍，加強我們的市場地位，並擴大我們的能力。透過有針對性的收購，我們力求垂直市場多元化，擴大地理覆蓋範圍，同時增加與我們的 ODR 價值主張高度契合的新產品和服務。

Over the past couple of months, we received a number of questions from investors who want to better understand our various revenue streams, particularly in the ODR segment. So let me walk through the ODR business and break down the sources of our revenue. There are three quick burning revenue streams, maintenance contracts, work orders, and time and material or T&M work.

在過去的幾個月裡，我們收到了許多投資者的提問，他們希望更了解我們的各種收入來源，特別是 ODR 領域的收入來源。那麼，讓我來詳細介紹一下 ODR 業務，並分析一下我們的收入來源。有三種快速消耗收入的來源：維護合約、工作訂單和按工時和材料計費或 T&M 工作。

Maintenance contracts generate predictable recurring revenues that are usually smaller in nature, but which have strong margins. Our maintenance contracts run 1 to 3 years in length prior to renewal and are built around routine service for specific equipment at customer sites. Work orders and T&M work often results from problems identified during scheduled maintenance or for emergency repairs or opportunistic upgrades of system components.

維護合約能產生可預測的經常性收入，雖然金額通常較小，但利潤率很高。我們的維護合約期限為 1 至 3 年，之後會續約，合約內容是針對客戶現場特定設備的日常維護。工作單和工時表工作通常是由於在計劃維護期間發現的問題，或是為了緊急維修或對系統組件進行機會性升級而產生的。

In some parts of the market, this is referred to as break-fix work. Any one individual work order may not be predictable, but in a large complex facility, there's generally an estimable amount of this kind of work in any given year. It's usually quick burning and completed an on-demand basis or as directed basis.

在某些市場領域，這被稱為故障排除和維修工作。任何單一工作訂單都可能無法預測，但在一個大型複雜的設施中，每年通常都會有一定數量的此類工作。它通常燃燒迅速，並可按需或按指示完成。

It can be priced based on labor rates and material markups that are prenegotiated with customers and anticipating -- anticipation of needing to act fast when the work happens or a small fixed price jobs less than $10,000. For example, large industrial customers usually schedule seasonable shutdowns when their facility reduces production and output of repairs and maintenance.

價格可以根據與客戶預先協商好的人工費和材料加價來定，並且考慮到工作需要快速行動，或者金額低於 10,000 美元的小型固定價格工作。例如，大型工業客戶通常會在工廠減產和進行維修保養時安排季節性停機。

This provides us the opportunity to execute a high volume of this type of small work in a short period of time. Because T&M work is performed on what's essentially a cost-plus basis, the risk profile is different than, say, a large fixed price project.

這使我們能夠在短時間內完成大量此類小型工作。由於 T&M 工作本質上是按成本加成方式進行的，因此其風險狀況與大型固定價格項目有所不同。

Taken together, all these work streams account for approximately 1/3 of the ODR revenue for year-to-date 2025. Irrespective of the specific structure of the revenue, when executing this kind of work, Limbach most often becomes an extension of the facility staff regardless of the contractual relationship. Fixed-price projects greater than $10,000 in our ODR segment can range from quick burning work that is booked and executed in the same month or quarter to projects that typically last less than a year.

綜合來看，所有這些工作流程約佔 2025 年迄今 ODR 收入的 1/3。無論收入的具體結構如何，在執行此類工作時，無論是否存在合約關係，Limbach 通常都會成為設施人員的延伸。在我們的 ODR 領域，固定價格項目（金額超過 10,000 美元）的範圍很廣，從在同一個月或一個季度內預訂和執行的快速完成的工作，到通常持續不到一年的項目，都有可能。

They're usually performed within existing facilities are typically tied in some way to an existing customer relationship and often a maintenance and service relationship. This means we're operating in an environment where we know the systems, the sites and the customers. This preexisting knowledge reduces uncertainty and enhances our ability to manage outcomes.

它們通常在現有設施內執行，通常以某種方式與現有客戶關係以及維護和服務關係相關聯。這意味著我們在一個我們了解系統、站點和客戶的環境中運作。這些已有的知識可以減少不確定性，並增強我們管理結果的能力。

As a result, the risk profile of these ODR projects is very different than GCR projects. Additionally, the average ODR project size is approximately $245,000 as compared to the average GCR project size of approximately $2.9 million.

因此，這些 ODR 項目的風險狀況與 GCR 項目截然不同。此外，ODR 專案的平均規模約為 245,000 美元，而 GCR 專案的平均規模約為 290 萬美元。

Both of those are year-to-date 2025 data points. This ODR project work accounts for approximately 2/3 of our ODR revenue. So at a high level, our intentional pivot towards owner-direct relationship has reshaped our revenue mix to become a more diversified and lower risk with more margin consistency.

這兩個數據點均為 2025 年至今的數據。此 ODR 專案工作約占我們 ODR 收入的 2/3。因此，從宏觀層面來看，我們有意轉向與所有者直接建立關係，重塑了我們的收入結構，使其更加多元化、風險更低、利潤率更穩定。

We believe this mix should provide a greater resilience through economic cycles and reflects our focus on stability, predictability, and long-term value creation. On a consolidated basis, ODR revenue as a percentage of total revenue has steadily increased since 2019.

我們相信這種組合能夠更好地抵禦經濟週期波動，並體現了我們對穩定性、可預測性和長期價值創造的關注。從合併層面來看，ODR 收入佔總收入的百分比自 2019 年以來穩定成長。

We began to shift our strategy. ODR represents [76.6%] of total revenue in the third quarter of 2025 and 74.1% on a year-to-date basis, in line with our targeted goal between 70% to 80% for the year. Going forward, the strategy continues to be focused on ODR growth and a reduction in GCR revenue. Keeping in mind, businesses we acquired at the time of acquisition typically do not have an evolved ODR strategy as Limbach.

我們開始調整策略。2025 年第三季度，ODR 佔總營收的 76.6%，年初至今佔 74.1%，符合我們全年 70% 至 80% 的目標。展望未來，該策略將繼續專注於提高 ODR 和減少 GCR 收入。需要注意的是，我們在收購時收購的企業通常沒有像 Limbach 那樣成熟的 ODR 策略。

However, whether we're speaking about an acquired business or a legacy business, this strategy is driving margin expansion and earnings growth over time, while we -- while also, we believe reducing our overall risk profile.

然而，無論我們談論的是收購的企業還是遺留企業，這項策略都在推動利潤率擴張和獲利成長，同時，我們也相信，這將降低我們的整體風險狀況。

Turning to backlog. The strategic shift from GCR to ODR means that a larger percentage of our revenue is now generated from quick burning shorter-term projects that can be booked and completed within the same quarter, and therefore, it's not captured in backlog at quarter end.

開始處理積壓工作。從 GCR 到 ODR 的策略轉變意味著，我們現在更大比例的收入來自可以在同一季度內預訂和完成的快速消耗的短期項目，因此，這些項目不會在季度末計入積壓訂單中。

As a result, backlog alone is no longer as predictable, a leading indicator of future revenue as it was in 2018 or even 2022 with a heavy GCR focus, which is typical for E&C companies. Occasionally, we will book projects with building owners that span multiple quarters. This work is captured in the backlog.

因此，僅憑積壓訂單已不再像 2018 年甚至 2022 年那樣可預測，不再是未來收入的領先指標（當時全球經濟復甦是工程建設公司的典型特徵）。有時，我們會承接一些跨越多個季度的建築業主專案。這項工作已列入待辦事項清單。

However, it's a smaller portion of the overall revenue mix and it can experience quarter-to-quarter fluctuations. So today, looking only at backlog, we'll miss a large percentage of our current revenue streams. Earlier I described our work order and T&M revenue streams and highlighted the industrial shutdown work we engage in.

然而，這部分收入在整體收入組成中所佔比例較小，並且可能會出現季度間的波動。因此，今天僅從積壓訂單來看，我們將錯過很大一部分的當前收入來源。前面我介紹了我們的工作訂單和工時與材料收入來源，並重點介紹了我們參與的工業停工檢修工作。

Most of these revenue streams never get captured and included in the quarterly backlog number, and they represent a far larger number than they did several years ago. Instead of the large high-risk multiyear projects that were a core element of our legacy business model, we're now focused on building a diversified business with multiple revenue streams and what we think is durable demand.

這些收入來源大多從未被計入季度積壓訂單數量中，而且它們所代表的數字比幾年前要大得多。我們不再像過去那樣，以大型高風險、多年期的專案作為傳統商業模式的核心要素，而是專注於打造多元化的業務，擁有多種收入來源，並且我們認為這種業務具有持久的需求。

Selective M&A remains a cornerstone of our growth strategy, enabling us to expand both our geographic footprint and deepen market share within existing regions and to expand our product and service offerings. Over the last couple of years, our focus has been broadening on our footprint in ways that enhance diversity and position us to serve national customers.

選擇性併購仍然是我們成長策略的基石，使我們能夠擴大地理覆蓋範圍，加深現有地區的市場份額，並擴大我們的產品和服務範圍。過去幾年，我們的重點是擴大業務範圍，以增強多樣性，並使我們能夠為全國客戶提供服務。

Our approach has always been conservative, and we've remained disciplined and selective in what we pursue even when the M&A market has gotten overheated. To date, we've acquired six high-quality cash flow generating businesses at fair values and have used risk-mitigating structures where possible. We believe the Limbach brand and our unique business model positions us to engage with great companies that over time, we can reposition to align with our owner-focused vision.

我們一直秉持保守的策略，即使在併購市場過熱的情況下，我們也始終保持嚴謹和謹慎的態度。迄今為止，我們已以公允價值收購了六家高品質的現金流產生型企業，並在可能的情況下採用了風險緩解結構。我們相信，林巴赫品牌和我們獨特的商業模式使我們能夠與優秀的公司合作，隨著時間的推移，我們可以重新定位，以符合我們以所有者為中心的願景。

After closing, our goal is to improve margins further by implementing our value creation processes. Our main focus in every deal is to expand the quality of gross profit through benchmarking, building a proactive sales team and leveraging operational standards, using the same tools that transformed our business units over the last 6 years and led to much higher margins at lower risk.

交易完成後，我們的目標是透過實施價值創造流程來進一步提高利潤率。我們在每筆交易中的主要重點是透過標竿管理、建立積極主動的銷售團隊和利用營運標準來提高毛利質量，使用過去 6 年裡改變我們業務部門並帶來更高利潤率和更低風險的相同工具。

We believe we can expect better results at acquired companies than what we underwrote at the time of the closing of these transactions. At Pioneer Power, our most recent acquisition, we're actively executing the first phase of our value creation strategy. During diligence, we identified improving Pioneer Power's lower EBITDA and gross margins as a great opportunity for the intermediate term.

我們相信，被收購公司能夠取得比我們在交易完成時預期更好的業績。在我們最近收購的 Pioneer Power 公司，我們正在積極執行價值創造策略的第一階段。在盡職調查過程中，我們發現提高 Pioneer Power 較低的 EBITDA 和毛利率是中期內的絕佳機會。

We are now transitioning Pioneer Power to Limbach's accounting system and operating systems. Once complete, we can start to focus on improving the quality of gross profit and providing access to other parts of the Limbach operating platform.

我們現在正在將 Pioneer Power 的系統過渡到 Limbach 的會計系統和作業系統。一旦完成，我們就可以開始專注於提高毛利質量，並提供 Limbach 營運平台其他部分的存取權限。

We've got a talented team in the Twin Cities. We want to make sure that we deploy all the tools at our disposal to support them and to allow the business unit to flourish. We evaluate a large volume of acquisition opportunities each year and intentionally walk away from the majority of them.

我們在雙子城擁有一支才華洋溢的團隊。我們希望確保利用我們掌握的所有工具來支持他們，並使業務部門蓬勃發展。我們每年都會評估大量的收購機會，並有意放棄其中的大多數。

Under my leadership, we will never buy a business just to do a deal. Our track record reflects disciplined underwriting, strategic fit and a focus on asymmetrical returns. There is a meaningful upside to our company if we're right and limited downside if we're wrong. There are times we lose competitors willing to pay higher multiples, and we're perfectly comfortable with that. Next, I'll provide an overview of the environment in our core vertical markets.

在我的領導下，我們絕對不會為了達成交易而收購企業。我們的業績記錄反映了嚴謹的承保、策略契合以及對非對稱回報的關注。如果我們判斷正確，公司將獲得可觀的收益；即使判斷錯誤，損失也有限。有時候我們會失去那些願意支付更高倍數的競爭對手，而我們對此完全可以接受。接下來，我將概述我們核心垂直市場的環境。

Healthcare has long been one of our strongest, most strategic end markets across all operating regions. Given the mission-critical nature of the healthcare facilities, customers can defer repairs briefly, but delays in capital spending rarely extend beyond a single quarter. While some customers experienced temporary delays during the summer months in funding both operating and capital expenditures, we're now seeing spending patterns normalize as the year progresses.

長期以來，醫療保健一直是我們所有營運區域中最強大、最具戰略意義的終端市場之一。鑑於醫療設施的關鍵任務性質，客戶可以暫時推遲維修，但資本支出的延遲很少會超過一個季度。雖然一些客戶在夏季期間在營運和資本支出方面的資金籌集方面遇到了暫時的延遲，但隨著這一年的推進，我們現在看到支出模式正在恢復正常。

Our sales teams have engaged with core customers and emphasize the importance of long-term planning. Increasingly, we're hearing that cost certainty is more important to our customers than simply achieving the lowest cost.

我們的銷售團隊與核心客戶進行了溝通，並強調了長期規劃的重要性。我們越來越聽到客戶說，成本確定性比單純追求最低成本更重要。

This can be achieved by implementing proactive programs, which help avoid reactionary spending and minimize risk to business operations caused by building system downtime. On our latest earnings call, we shared that a national healthcare owner engaged us to conduct facility assessments across 20 locations.

這可以透過實施積極主動的計劃來實現，這有助於避免被動支出，並最大限度地降低因係統停機而對業務運營造成的風險。在最近一次財報電話會議上，我們分享了一家全國性醫療保健公司聘請我們對旗下 20 個地點的設施進行評估的消息。

In Q3, this initiative has already translated into $12 million in capital projects at four sites. We'll serve as a design builder for these MEP infrastructure projects, three of which are outside our current geographic footprint. For those out-of-market projects, we'll lead budgeting, design and procurement and utilize a network of subcontractor partners where necessary.

第三季度，這項措施已在四個地點轉化為 1,200 萬美元的資本項目。我們將擔任這些機電基礎設施專案的設計建造商，其中三個專案超出了我們目前的地理範圍。對於非市場項目，我們將主導預算、設計和採購，並在必要時利用分包商合作夥伴網路。

In industrial manufacturing markets, our customers continue to execute seasonal shutdowns and facility upgrades in order to optimize the production of their plants and facilities. During the quarter, both Pioneer Power and Consolidated Mechanical benefit from this type of activity, which is a core element of their local business models. In the data center market, Limbach remains focused on supporting hyperscale operators through existing building projects and specialized services, primarily in the Columbus, Ohio market.

在工業製造市場，我們的客戶不斷進行季節性停產和設施升級，以優化其工廠和設施的生產。本季度，Pioneer Power 和 Consolidated Mechanical 都受益於此類活動，這是他們本地商業模式的核心要素。在資料中心市場，Limbach 仍然專注於透過現有建築項目和專業服務來支援超大規模營運商，主要市場位於俄亥俄州哥倫布市。

In Q3, we provided specialty fabrication services to one of our customers, enabling on-site contractors to concentrate on their core workloads while we offered supplemental support. That arrangement provided Limbach with what we think is the optimal balance of risk return and resource allocation.

第三季度，我們為一位客戶提供了專業製造服務，使現場承包商能夠專注於他們的核心工作，而我們則提供補充支援。這種安排為林巴赫提供了我們認為風險回報和資源配置的最佳平衡。

While our current footprint and risk profile limits the scale of data center work, we see meaningful growth potential through our national sales efforts and future geographic expansion through strategic acquisitions. In the life science and higher education market, some of our higher education clients have adopted a cautious approach to spending during ongoing policy uncertainty in Washington, D.C.

雖然我們目前的業務規模和風險狀況限制了資料中心業務的規模，但我們看到了透過全國銷售努力和未來透過策略性收購進行地理擴張所帶來的巨大成長潛力。在生命科學和高等教育市場，由於華盛頓特區持續存在政策不確定性，我們的一些高等教育客戶對支出採取了謹慎的態度。

While the need for our services remains essential to maintaining mission-critical facilities, many temporary pause capital projects. Encouragingly, these clients have begun communicating anticipated spending needs for the coming year, and we are proactively aligning the resources in preparation for ramp-up. One major client has already requested full-time technician support beginning in January.

雖然我們的服務對於維護關鍵任務設施仍然至關重要，但許多資本項目暫時中止。令人鼓舞的是，這些客戶已經開始溝通來年的預期支出需求，我們正在積極調整資源，為業務成長做好準備。一位重要客戶已經要求從一月開始提供全職技術支援。

In the culture and entertainment vertical, we continue to see consistent spending from our key customers. Our recent involvement in capital planning discussions provided valuable insight into some clients' 2026 budgets.

在文化娛樂領域，我們持續看到主要客戶的穩定支出。我們最近參與的資本規劃討論為我們了解一些客戶的 2026 年預算提供了寶貴的見解。

Notably, our largest customer in this segment has shared plans for significantly expanding capital and operating budgets next year. They've invited us to review their respective project list and provide input on the work we'd like to pursue, allowing us to proactive plan and allocate resources for 2026. Next, I'll provide an update on sales and marketing initiatives.

值得注意的是，我們在該領域最大的客戶已宣布計劃明年大幅增加資本和營運預算。他們邀請我們審查各自的項目清單，並就我們想要進行的工作提出意見，以便我們能夠積極主動地規劃和分配 2026 年的資源。接下來，我將報告銷售和行銷的最新進展。

For the past 3 years, we've made deliberate investments in building our sales team, which has resulted in a higher SG&A relative to many of our E&C peers. Our training efforts are focused on equipping the team to anticipate owner challenges and craft solutions that are difficult to commoditize.

過去 3 年，我們一直在有意識地投資建立銷售團隊，這導致我們的銷售、一般及行政費用高於許多工程建設同行。我們的培訓工作重點是使團隊能夠預見業主面臨的挑戰，並制定難以商品化的解決方案。

We believe this investment will soon begin to yield measured results, both by leveraging SG&A more effectively and by enhancing the quality and consistency of gross profit. As we head into Q4, our priority is to deepen sales training to ensure a strong start to 2026. In many cases, we're not competing against local contractors.

我們相信這項投資很快就會開始產生可衡量的結果，既能更有效地利用銷售、一般及行政費用，又能提高毛利的品質和穩定性。進入第四季度，我們的首要任務是深化銷售培訓，以確保2026年有一個良好的開端。在很多情況下，我們並非與當地承包商競爭。

Instead, we're working directly for owners in a proactive capacity, helping them anticipate issues and plan their budgets accordingly. A recent example from Florida illustrates this approach well. Over the past 2 years, we've supported a $25 billion annual revenue healthcare customer with emergency repairs and small capital upgrades. During a routine inspection of the main cooling feed, our on-site account manager identified signs of deterioration. We conducted non-destructive testing and the piping was on the verge of failure.

相反，我們以積極主動的態度直接為業主服務，幫助他們預見問題並相應地規劃預算。佛羅裡達州最近的一個例子很好地說明了這種方法。過去兩年，我們為一家年收入達 250 億美元的醫療保健客戶提供了緊急維修和小規模資本升級支援。在對主冷卻供水管進行例行檢查時，我們的現場客戶經理發現了劣化跡象。我們進行了無損檢測，發現管道已接近失效邊緣。

In response, we developed a proposal that clearly outlined the ROI and presented it to the facility manager who was then escalated to the CFO and the Chief Medical Officer. In Q3, the project was funded and we were awarded Phase 1 of the repair. This is a prime example of a capital project where we weren't competing for the work. Instead, we earned it by identifying the issue early and presenting a compelling data back justification for the investment. One of our key differentiators is our ability to offer professional services, including MEP engineering, facility assessments, program management and commissioning.

為此，我們制定了一份提案，明確列出了投資回報率，並將其提交給設施經理，然後由設施經理上報給首席財務官和首席醫療官。第三季度，該專案獲得資金，我們得標了第一階段的維修工程。這是一個典型的資本項目案例，我們並沒有參與競標。相反，我們透過及早發現問題並提出令人信服的數據支持來證明這項投資的合理性，從而贏得了這筆投資。我們的主要優勢之一是能夠提供專業服務，包括機電工程、設施評估、專案管理和調試。

These services are particularly attractive to national customers who can leverage our domain experience even in markets where we might not have field execution capabilities. These services, along with program management are a key driver of margin expansion.

這些服務對國內客戶尤其具有吸引力，即使在我們可能沒有現場執行能力的市場，他們也可以利用我們的領域經驗。這些服務以及專案管理是利潤率擴張的關鍵驅動因素。

During the quarter, we had one of our national healthcare customers engage us to analyze a hospital in New Mexico, both from a cost and engineering perspective as they're considering making a substantial investment in the facility. This initial research has the potential to become a design build infrastructure project. We find that customers appreciate our ability to provide an engineered solution that we can also build.

本季度，我們的一家全國性醫療保健客戶委託我們從成本和工程角度分析新墨西哥州的一家醫院，因為他們正在考慮對該設施進行大量投資。這項初步研究有可能發展成為一個設計建造基礎設施項目。我們發現，客戶欣賞我們既能提供工程解決方案，又能自行製造的能力。

While currently, our professional service resources are dedicated to national healthcare owners, in the future, we're looking to expand these capabilities into our data center and industrial manufacturing vertical markets.

雖然目前我們的專業服務資源主要針對全國醫療保健所有者，但未來我們希望將這些能力擴展到我們的資料中心和工業製造垂直市場。

As we broaden our services portfolio, which includes the expansion of our professional services and solutions-based selling, we see a path to achieving long-term gross margins in the 35% to 40% range, driven by two key dynamics: First, our ability to deepen customer relationships by shifting from reactive transactional sales to proactive consultative solution sales. This approach enables us to build long-term operating and capital programs that are tailored to solving our customers' needs rather than competing solely on price.

隨著我們不斷拓展服務組合，包括擴大專業服務和解決方案銷售，我們看到了實現長期毛利率達到 35% 至 40% 的途徑，這主要得益於兩個關鍵因素：首先，我們能夠透過從被動的交易型銷售轉向主動的諮詢式解決方案銷售來加深客戶關係。這種方法使我們能夠制定長期的營運和資本計劃，以滿足客戶的需求，而不是僅僅在價格上競爭。

Second, our ability to bundle offerings creates margin layering opportunities. For example, an infrastructure project may include a rental component, allowing us to mark up both individual elements and the overall project cost.

其次，我們捆綁產品的能力創造了利潤分層的機會。例如，基礎設施項目可能包含租賃部分，這使我們能夠對各個部分和整個項目的成本進行加價。

These strategies position us well to deliver sustainable growth at attractive margins. Moving to guidance. We are reaffirming our 2025 guidance of total revenue in the range of $650 million to $680 million and adjusted EBITDA of $80 million to $86 million.

這些策略使我們能夠以具有吸引力的利潤率實現永續成長。進入指導環節。我們重申 2025 年總營收預期為 6.5 億美元至 6.8 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 預期為 8,000 萬美元至 8,600 萬美元。

Of note, we have made some updates to our underlying assumptions used to model 2025 guidance to better reflect current market conditions, project timing, and operational performance trends. These updates influence our outlook and are incorporated into the public issued guidance ranges for total revenue and adjusted EBITDA.

值得注意的是，我們對用於模擬 2025 年業績指引的基本假設進行了一些更新，以更好地反映當前的市場狀況、專案進度和營運績效趨勢。這些更新會影響我們的展望，並納入公開發布的總收入和調整後 EBITDA 指引範圍。

As I mentioned earlier, we are on track for total ODR revenue to be 70% to 80% of total revenue. Total ODR revenue growth is expected to be 40% to 50% with ODR organic revenue growth of 20% to 25% Total organic revenue growth is expected in the range of 7% to 10% from 10% to 15% previously discussed, as we originally anticipated a more positive mix shift towards ODR and GCR.

正如我之前提到的，我們預計將實現 ODR 總收入佔總收入的 70% 至 80%。預計 ODR 總收入將成長 40% 至 50%，其中 ODR 有機收入將成長 20% 至 25%。預計有機收入總成長在 7% 至 10% 的範圍內，低於先前討論的 10% 至 15%，因為我們最初預期 ODR 和 GCR 的組合會發生更積極的轉變。

Pioneer Power's revenue performance this quarter exceeded our initial expectations. While Pioneer Power's current margin profile differs from Limbach's consolidated performance, we're actively integrating Pioneer into Limbach's platform, and we have a path to implement operational and commercial enhancements that we expect to expand margins over time. Because of the higher revenue contribution of Pioneer, total gross margin is expected to be 25.5% to 26.5% from 28% to 29%.

Pioneer Power本季的營收表現超出了我們最初的預期。雖然 Pioneer Power 目前的利潤率與 Limbach 的合併業績有所不同，但我們正在積極將 Pioneer 整合到 Limbach 的平台中，並且我們有辦法實施營運和商業改進，我們預計這些改進將隨著時間的推移擴大利潤率。由於 Pioneer 的收入貢獻較高，預計總毛利率將從 28% 至 29% 降至 25.5% 至 26.5%。

Additionally, SG&A as a percentage of total revenue is expected to be between 15% to 17% from 18% to 19%, primarily due to the higher revenue contribution. Now I'll turn it over to Jayme to walk through the financials.

此外，由於銷售、一般及行政費用佔總收入的比例預計在 15% 至 17% 之間，而不是 18% 至 19%，這主要是因為其收入貢獻較高。現在我把麥克風交給傑米，讓她來分析一下財務狀況。

Our Form 10-Q and earnings press release filed yesterday provide comprehensive details of our financial results, so I will focus on the highlights for the third quarter. All comparisons are third quarter 2025 versus third quarter 2024, unless otherwise noted. We generated total revenue of $184.6 million compared to $133.9 million in 2024. Total revenue growth was 37.8%, while ODR revenue grew 52% to $141.4 million. Of the total ODR revenue growth of 52%, 39.8% was from acquisitions and 12.2% was organic.

我們昨天提交的 10-Q 表格和盈利新聞稿提供了我們財務業績的詳細資料，因此我將重點介紹第三季度的亮點。除非另有說明，所有比較均指 2025 年第三季與 2024 年第三季的比較。我們創造了 1.846 億美元的總收入，而 2024 年的預期收入為 1.339 億美元。總收入成長了 37.8%，而 ODR 收入成長了 52%，達到 1.414 億美元。ODR 總營收成長 52%，其中 39.8% 來自收購，12.2% 來自內生成長。

GCR revenue increased 5.6% to $43.2 million, of which 25.1% was growth from acquisitions, offset by an organic revenue decrease of 19.5%, which is as designed as we continue our mix shift towards ODR. ODR revenue accounted for 76.6% of total revenue for the third quarter, up from 69.4% in Q3 2024.

GCR 營收成長 5.6% 至 4,320 萬美元，其中 25.1% 來自收購，但被 19.5% 的有機收入下降所抵消，這符合我們繼續向 ODR 轉型的預期。第三季 ODR 營收佔總營收的 76.6%，高於 2024 年第三季的 69.4%。

Total gross profit for the quarter increased 23.7% from $36.1 million to $44.7 million, reflecting the ongoing growth of our ODR segment. Total gross margin on a consolidated basis for the quarter was 24.2%, down from 27% in 2024, driven by the lower gross margin profile of Pioneer Power revenue. Our strategy with acquisitions is focused on improving the acquired company's gross margin to align with our broader operating model over time.

本季總毛利成長 23.7%，從 3,610 萬美元增至 4,470 萬美元，反映了我們 ODR 業務的持續成長。本季合併後的總毛利率為 24.2%，低於 2024 年的 27%，主要原因是 Pioneer Power 收入的毛利率較低。我們的收購策略著重於隨著時間的推移提高被收購公司的毛利率，使其與我們更廣泛的營運模式保持一致。

ODR gross profit comprised approximately 80% of the total gross profit dollars or $35.7 million. ODR gross profit increased $6 million or 20.3%, driven by higher sales volume, partially offset by lower ODR segment margins of 25.2% compared to 31.9% in the year ago period.

ODR毛利約佔總毛利的80%，即3,570萬美元。毛利成長 600 萬美元，成長 20.3%，主要得益於銷售量的成長，但部分被 ODR 業務利潤率下降所抵消，ODR 業務利潤率為 25.2%，而去年同期為 31.9%。

The decrease in segment margin was primarily attributable to Pioneer Power's lower gross margin profile. GCR gross profit increased $2.5 million or 39.3% due to higher margins of 20.8% compared to 15.8%, driven by our ongoing focus on higher quality projects. SG&A expense for the third quarter was $28.3 million, an increase of approximately 19.3% from $23.7 million.

分部利潤率下降主要是由於 Pioneer Power 的毛利率較低所致。由於我們持續專注於更高品質的項目，毛利率從 15.8% 提高到 20.8%，GCR 的毛利增加了 250 萬美元，增幅達 39.3%。第三季銷售、一般及行政費用為 2,830 萬美元，比 2,370 萬美元成長約 19.3%。

This increase includes SG&A associated with Pioneer Power, Kent Island and Consolidated Mechanical, where Kent Island was part of the company for only 1 month in the third quarter last year and Pioneer and Consolidated Mechanical were not part of the company during the entire of the third quarter last year. As a percentage of revenue, SG&A expense decreased 15.3% as compared to 17.7%, primarily due to the increased revenue in the third quarter of 2025 provided by Pioneer Power.

此次成長包括與 Pioneer Power、Kent Island 和 Consolidated Mechanical 相關的銷售、一般及行政費用。其中，Kent Island 去年第三季僅在公司營運一個月，而 Pioneer 和 Consolidated Mechanical 去年第三季全程都不屬於公司。銷售、一般及行政費用佔收入的百分比下降了 15.3%，而去年同期為 17.7%，這主要是由於 Pioneer Power 在 2025 年第三季帶來的收入增加。

Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $21.8 million, up 25.6% from $17.3 million in Q3 '24. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 11.8% compared to 12.9% in Q3 last year. Net income for the quarter increased 17.4% from $7.5 million to $8.8 million, and earnings per diluted share grew 17.7% from $0.62 to $0.73.

本季調整後 EBITDA 為 2,180 萬美元，比 2024 年第三季的 1,730 萬美元成長了 25.6%。經調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 11.8%，而去年第三季為 12.9%。本季淨利成長 17.4%，從 750 萬美元增至 880 萬美元；稀釋後每股收益成長 17.7%，從 0.62 美元增至 0.73 美元。

Adjusted net income grew 16.4% from $10.9 million to $12.7 million and adjusted earnings per diluted share grew 15.4% from $0.91 to $1.05. Turning to cash flow. Our operating cash inflow during the third quarter was $13.3 million compared to $4.9 million during the third quarter last year, primarily due to the timing of accrued expenses, offset by the timing of billings that impacted changes in working capital.

經調整後的淨利潤增長了 16.4%，從 1,090 萬美元增至 1,270 萬美元；經調整後的每股攤薄收益增長了 15.4%，從 0.91 美元增至 1.05 美元。接下來看看現金流。第三季我們的營運現金流入為 1,330 萬美元，而去年同期為 490 萬美元，這主要是由於應計費用的時間安排，但被影響營運資金變動的帳單時間安排所抵銷。

Free cash flow, defined as cash flow from operating activities, excluding changes in working capital, minus capital expenditures, excluding our investment in additional rental equipment, was $17.9 million in the third quarter compared to $13 million in Q3 last year, representing a $4.8 million increase. The free cash flow conversion of adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was 82% versus 75.3% last year.

自由現金流（定義為經營活動產生的現金流，不包括營運資本變動，減去資本支出，不包括對額外租賃設備的投資）在第三季為 1,790 萬美元，而去年同期為 1,300 萬美元，增加了 480 萬美元。本季調整後 EBITDA 的自由現金流轉換率為 82%，而去年同期為 75.3%。

For full year 2025, we currently continue to target a free cash flow conversion rate of at least 75% and expect CapEx to have a run rate of approximately $3 million. This amount excludes an additional investment of $3.5 million in rental equipment for 2025, of which $2.1 million occurred in the first 9 months of the year.

對於 2025 年全年，我們目前仍將自由現金流轉換率的目標設定為至少 75%，並預計資本支出將達到約 300 萬美元。該金額不包括 2025 年租賃設備的 350 萬美元額外投資，其中 210 萬美元發生在當年的前 9 個月。

Turning to our balance sheet. As of September 30, we had $9.8 million in cash and cash equivalents and total debt of $61.9 million, which includes $34.5 million borrowed on our revolving credit facility, of which $10 million is at a hedge rate of an applicable margin plus 3.12%.

接下來來看看我們的資產負債表。截至 9 月 30 日，我們有 980 萬美元現金及現金等價物，總債務為 6,190 萬美元，其中包括根據我們的循環信貸額度借入的 3,450 萬美元，其中 1,000 萬美元的對沖利率為適用利差加 3.12%。

As a reminder, at the end of June, we expanded our revolving credit facility from $50 million to $100 million. On July 1, we used a combination of cash and an additional drawdown of approximately $40 million to fund the Pioneer Power acquisition. During the quarter, we paid down the revolving credit facility $17.3 million.

再次提醒大家，6 月底，我們將循環信貸額度從 5,000 萬美元擴大到 1 億美元。7 月 1 日，我們利用現金和額外提取的約 4,000 萬美元資金，為收購 Pioneer Power 提供資金。本季度，我們償還了循環信貸額度 1,730 萬美元。

And as of September 30, our total liquidity, defined as cash and availability on our revolving credit facility is $70.3 million. Additionally, we intend to deploy free cash flow to continue to reduce our borrowings under the revolving credit facility.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的總流動資金（定義為現金和循環信貸額度的可用資金）為 7,030 萬美元。此外，我們計劃利用自由現金流繼續減少我們在循環信貸安排下的借款。

With this expanded facility and our expected cash generation from the business, we believe our balance sheet remains strong, and we believe we are well-positioned to support our continued growth initiatives and strategic M&A transactions. That concludes our prepared remarks. I'll now ask the operator to begin Q&A.

憑藉擴建後的設施和預期業務產生的現金流，我們相信我們的資產負債表依然穩健，並且我們相信我們已做好充分準備，支持我們持續的成長計劃和策略併購交易。我們的發言稿到此結束。現在我將請接線生開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Chris Moore, CJS Securities.

克里斯摩爾，CJS證券。

So it looks like $47.3 million of Q3 revenue was acquisition-related, $37 million of that ODR, $10.3 million GCR. Can you give us a sense in terms of how much revenue Pioneer contributed to that $47 million and the split between ODR and GCR within Pioneer?

因此，第三季營收中 4,730 萬美元與收購有關，其中 3,700 萬美元為 ODR，1,030 萬美元為 GCR。您能否簡要說明 Pioneer 在這 4700 萬美元的收入中貢獻了多少，以及 Pioneer 內部 ODR 和 GCR 之間的收入分配比例？

Yes. The Pioneer Power, they continue to produce, I think, even better than we thought they would produce. So we're thinking by year-end, the contribution for the second half of 2025 is closer to actually $60 million, heavily weighted from an owner direct side as well, too.

是的。先鋒動力公司繼續保持高水準的生產，我認為他們的表現甚至比我們預想的還要好。因此，我們認為到年底，2025 年下半年的貢獻實際上將接近 6,000 萬美元，其中很大一部分也將來自所有者的直接投入。

And I think a lot of that strong contribution is from the Industrial segment as well, too, some shutdown work, strong customers and brand, which is always nice to validate after we've had the acquisition as well, too. I think the other thing, too, even from a margin perspective that we're really looking forward to from a Pioneer perspective is the opportunity.

我認為工業領域也做出了很大貢獻，包括一些停工檢修專案、強大的客戶群和品牌，這在我們完成收購後也得到了很好的驗證。我認為，從利潤率的角度來看，我們先鋒公司真正期待的另一件事是機會。

We see a lot of good solid foundation from a Pioneer Power perspective. But at the same time, I think as we've -- right now, we're in the process of transitioning their finance and operating systems, but we already see signs of our ability to not only benchmark their gross profit, but to look for opportunities as well, too.

從 Pioneer Power 的角度來看，我們看到了許多堅實的基礎。但同時，我認為，正如我們目前所看到的——我們正在對他們的財務和營運系統進行過渡，但我們已經看到我們不僅能夠衡量他們的毛利，而且還能尋找機會的跡象。

Got it. So the $60 million you're talking about for the second half, it looks like the bulk of that is in ODR. Am I looking at that correctly?

知道了。所以你提到的下半年的 6000 萬美元，看起來大部分都是 ODR。我理解的對嗎？

Yes. Yes, you are.

是的。是的，你是。

Okay. And so just -- I got it that the gross margins are -- should be coming up there. Why are they -- within their ODR segment, why are they lower at this point in time? Do they do different work for clients? Are they focused on a different vertical? Just any thoughts there?

好的。所以，我明白了，毛利率應該會上升。為什麼他們在 ODR 細分市場的 ODR 目前較低？他們為客戶提供的服務是否不同？他們是否專注於不同的垂直領域？大家有什麼想法嗎？

Yes, it's very interesting. We've seen -- one of the main opportunities we look at with all their acquisitions is increase of margin. So this is the common playbook that we see. And a lot of times, it comes down to they run a really good business. They have relationships.

是的，這很有意思。我們已經看到——我們關注他們所有收購的主要機會之一是提高利潤率。這就是我們常見的做法。很多時候，關鍵在於他們把生意經營得非常好。他們之間有關係。

And it's a matter of understanding benchmarking as much as anything now that we've got -- even from an industrial base or even from other contracts that we purchased, we always take a look at it from a margin perspective.

現在，我們面臨的最大挑戰之一就是理解基準測試——即使是從工業基礎，甚至是從我們購買的其他合約來看，我們總是從利潤率的角度來審視它。

A lot of times, that's eye-opening as well, too. I think the other piece of it, too, is how they go to market. They're going to market from a branding reputation perspective. But one of the key elements that we add to is a proactive sales team.

很多時候，這也很令人大開眼界。我認為另一個關鍵因素是他們的市場策略。他們是從品牌聲譽的角度進入市場的。但我們增加的關鍵要素之一是一支積極主動的銷售團隊。

And a lot of times, that makes a difference. So at the end of the day, it's a matter of taking great customer relationships and a brand, understanding there's 4 or 5 triggers that allow us to expand margins over time. So even -- and we've looked at it not just from Pioneer Power. Pioneer Power obviously is a bigger contributor. But even from the other acquisitions, it's always the same elements over time. It takes time, but I would say it's still the same playbook, and we see lots of opportunity.

很多時候，這會造成很大的差異。所以歸根結底，關鍵在於建立良好的客戶關係和品牌，並了解有 4 到 5 個觸發因素可以讓我們隨著時間的推移擴大利潤率。所以即使——而且我們不僅僅是從 Pioneer Power 的角度來看待這個問題。先鋒電力公司顯然是更大的貢獻者。但即使是其他收購項目，隨著時間的推移，其要素也總是相同的。這需要時間，但我認為策略仍然一樣，我們看到了很多機會。

Got it. Very helpful. Maybe just the last one. Just SG&A as a percentage of revenue, 15.3% versus 18.7% in Q2. The target range is coming down. Is it reasonable to think that SG&A as a percentage of revenue would tick up a bit in '26 versus the 15% to 17% that we're talking about in '25?

知道了。很有幫助。或許就最後一個吧。銷售、一般及行政費用佔收入的百分比為 15.3%，而第二季為 18.7%。目標射程正在縮短。2026 年銷售、一般及行政費用佔收入的百分比會比 2025 年的 15% 至 17% 略有上升，這種想法合理嗎？

Yes. The big piece of that SG&A reduction was due to the different profile from Pioneer of lower gross profit, but also lower of SG&A as well, too. There's some investments that we're going to need to make going into 2026. And that's not only from a Pioneer and other acquisitions, but also from an overall business as well, too. Jayme, anything you want to comment on that?

是的。銷售、一般及行政費用的大幅降低，主要原因是該公司與 Pioneer 公司的情況不同，毛利較低，但銷售、一般及行政費用也較低。到2026年，我們需要進行一些投資。這不僅來自 Pioneer 和其他收購，也來自整體業務。傑米，你對此有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes, because part of it to get -- I mean, we have a lower rate this period for the fiscal year. But going into next year, too, as Mike said, looking at specifically around Pioneer that proactive sales force piece of it. So we've not given the guidance yet for the next year.

是的，因為部分原因是──我的意思是，本財政年度我們這段時期的利率較低。但正如麥克所說，展望明年，尤其要關注先鋒公司積極主動的銷售團隊。因此，我們尚未給出明年的指導意見。

Brian Brophy, Stifel.

Brian Brophy，Stifel。

I appreciate all the additional disclosure here. When I try to, I guess, back out PPI from ODR, it looks like gross margins kind of on the core business were down a little bit from a year ago. Is that correct? And can you give us, I guess, a sense of the magnitude and what the driver was?

我感謝您提供的所有補充資訊。當我嘗試從 ODR 中剔除 PPI 時，我發現核心業務的毛利率比一年前略有下降。是這樣嗎？那麼，您能否大致描述一下事件的嚴重程度以及其驅動因素是什麼？

From a margin perspective, I'll let Jayme answer from the financial exact number perspective. But our margins do end up fluctuating from a quarter-to-quarter basis. And I think it just depends on the mix of work that may be within the quarter.

從利潤率的角度來看，我會讓傑米從具體的財務數字角度來回答這個問題。但我們的利潤率確實會逐季度波動。我認為這取決於該季度內各項工作的具體組合。

And one thing that you pointed out even as we mentioned in the script, is that combination of 1/3, 2/3 essentially goes through the business as well, too, where 1/3 is that quick burning work and 2/3 of the owner direct revenue is fixed price projects that are of average size year-to-date of $245,000. So at the end of the day, nothing different from -- it's more of that dynamic of the quarter-to-quarter mix of whether it's that quick burning or it's fixed-price projects.

正如你在劇本中提到的那樣，這 1/3 和 2/3 的組合實際上也透過業務來實現，其中 1/3 是快速見效的工作，而 2/3 的業主直接收入是固定價格項目，這些項目的平均規模為 245,000 美元（截至目前為止）。所以歸根結底，沒有什麼不同——更多的是季度之間的動態變化，即項目是快速見效的項目還是固定價格項目。

Yes, I was just going to reiterate that. Yes, definitely in line -- it will fluctuate quarter-to-quarter based on the mix, and it's really the impact of the PPI margin for this quarter.

是的，我正要重申這一點。是的，絕對符合預期——它會根據產品組合逐季度波動，而本季的真正影響在於PPI利潤率。

Okay. And then can you give us a sense on ODR organic growth in the first half of the year? I guess the 20% to 25% guidance for 2025 seems to imply an acceleration in the fourth quarter. I just want to understand if that is accurate and what's driving that acceleration?

好的。那麼，您能否為我們介紹一下今年上半年 ODR 的自然成長？我猜想，2025 年 20% 至 25% 的成長預期似乎暗示著第四季成長速度將加快。我只是想弄清楚這個說法是否準確，以及是什麼導致了這種加速？

Yes. Year-to-date, we're 14.4% organic ODR, and we've talked about a range of 20% to 25% for a full year. So that does imply some acceleration. A couple of things that we're really looking at even from a Q4 perspective, continuing quick burning work from a revenue perspective, budgets that need to be spent by year-end. A lot of people have delayed that OpEx spend and they're in a position right now where they have to spend those dollars, small projects that are churning.

是的。今年迄今為止，我們的有機訂單轉換率 (ODR) 為 14.4%，我們曾討論過全年將有機訂單轉換率保持在 20% 到 25% 的範圍內。所以這確實意味著存在一定的加速。即使從第四季的角度來看，我們也在認真考慮以下幾件事：繼續從收入角度快速推進項目，以及需要在年底前花完的預算。很多人推遲了營運支出，現在他們不得不把這些錢花在一些小專案上，這些專案都在快速推進。

And I think that's also a result of that sales team. The last three years, we've invested in the sales team. The recent sales team investment that we hired in Q4 and early Q1, it's been about 9 or 12 months. We've been in position with customers, and that allows us to give visibility kind of looking into Q4 from that perspective.

我認為這也要歸功於銷售團隊。過去三年，我們對銷售團隊進行了投資。我們最近在第四季和第一季初招募的銷售團隊，到現在已經有9到12個月了。我們與客戶保持著密切的聯繫，這使我們能夠從這個角度展望第四季。

Okay. That's very helpful. And then in your opening comments, you mentioned the $12 million of capital projects that were awarded from this facility assessment award that you talked about last quarter. Do you anticipate that potentially driving further awards? Or do you think that's kind of the extent of the opportunity and additional follow-on awards from these facility assessments?

好的。那很有幫助。然後，在您的開場白中，您提到了上個季度您談到的設施評估獎勵中撥出的 1200 萬美元資本項目。你預計這可能會帶來更多獎項嗎？或者您認為這就是這些設施評估所帶來的機會和後續獎勵的全部內容嗎？

Yes. This is really exciting. So a couple of things that we've learned through our evolution. A lot of times on local relationships, the relationships will start with a maintenance project or really quick turning work. On the national side of things, we really started with healthcare.

是的。這真是太令人興奮了。這是我們進化過程中學到的兩件事。很多時候，本地合作關係都是從維護專案或快速週轉工作開始的。在國家層面，我們確實是從醫療保健開始的。

We're thinking about data centers and industrial as we kind of expand going forward. A lot of times, that work starts with professional services. Facility assessment, engineering, it's a repositioning of that ultimate entry point. And those customers are very much from a cost certainty, quality, consistency type perspective. So we've got a lot of these national relationships that we've started to.

隨著我們未來的擴張，我們正在考慮資料中心和工業領域。很多時候，這項工作是從專業服務開始的。設施評估、工程設計，這實際上是對最終切入點的重新定位。這些客戶非常注重成本確定性、品質和一致性。所以我們已經開始建立很多這樣的全國性關係。

And they typically do start with that facility assessment ultimately, and then we come up with a pro forma. So that particular opportunity, those 20 assessments turned into $12 million of projects over four different sites, three of which were outside of a geography, that's in.

他們通常最終都會先進行設施評估，然後我們再製定一個方案。所以，那次特殊的機遇，那 20 次評估，最終促成了四個不同地點的 1200 萬美元項目，其中三個地點位於地理範圍之外，就是這樣。

So I think I look going forward, we're excited about the opportunity for multiple customers from multiple assessments of that being kind of a runway for us to have another avenue of work that comes in. I think another interesting thing as well, too, is it's kind of we're going to be a cross-section of having those local maintenance and service type agreements as quick project agreements as well as kind of -- as well as the national relationships. And the two of those meeting together are also a big opportunity for us as well, too.

所以我覺得展望未來，我們很高興有機會為眾多客戶提供服務，透過多次評估，這為我們開闢了另一條工作途徑。我覺得還有一件很有趣的事情，那就是我們將成為一個交叉領域，既包括那些本地維護和服務類型的協議，也包括快速項目協議，以及——還有全國性的關係。而這兩方的會面對我們來說也是一個重要的機會。

Appreciate the color there. Last one for me. Past three years, you've talked about hiring about 40 salespeople a year. Curious how you're thinking about investing in the sales staff this year relative to kind of the prior pace.

欣賞那裡的色彩。這是我最後一個了。過去三年，你們都提到每年要招募約 40 名銷售人員。很好奇您今年打算如何投資銷售人員，與往年相比有何不同。

Yes. So it's interesting. I think we're definitely looking at -- as we go into every year like we've done in the last 3 years from a sales staff perspective. I think we've made a lot of hires over about 120 hires over that period of time. I think we're continuing to make sure that we're supporting our sales staff.

是的。所以這很有意思。我認為我們肯定會從銷售人員的角度來審視這個問題——就像過去三年我們每年所做的那樣。我認為在那段時間裡，我們招募了大約 120 名員工。我認為我們正在繼續確保為銷售人員提供支援。

I think that's going to be a big piece of next year from a sales enablement perspective as well, too. What resources can we give them to make them successful? How can we connect dots for them? I think that will be a big focus going into next year as well, too. So it's almost as much sales enablement next year as much as traditional sales staff.

我認為從銷售賦能的角度來看，這也將是明年非常重要的一環。我們可以為他們提供哪些資源來幫助他們成功？我們如何幫助他們把這些線索連結起來？我認為明年這也會是我們的重點工作之一。所以明年銷售賦能的重要性幾乎跟傳統銷售人員一樣重要。

We also are looking forward to production as well, too. It takes a long time to get sales staff up and running. But whether it's professional services, whether it's data analysis, whether it's financial analysis that we do for customers, those are the sort of things going into next year that we're really excited to make sure that we're making our sales staff as successful as possible.

我們也同樣期待生產階段的到來。銷售人員的組成和運作需要很長時間。但無論是專業服務、數據分析，還是我們為客戶提供的財務分析，這些都是我們非常期待在明年繼續推進的領域，我們將盡一切努力確保我們的銷售人員取得最大的成功。

Rob Brown, Lake Street Capital.

羅布布朗，湖街資本。

Congrats on the progress. Kind of back to the organic growth, how do you think about the longer-term organic growth? It was the guidance tweaked it down a little bit this quarter. But what do you sort of think of as the long-term organic growth and what needs to happen to kind of get there?

恭喜你取得進展。回到有機成長的話題，您如何看待長期的有機成長？本季的業績指引略有下調。但您認為長期的有機成長應該是什麼樣的呢？要實現這一目標需要做些什麼？

Yes. So from an organic growth perspective, and of course, that -- it's what we're doing from a GCR perspective, but also from an owner-direct perspective. So let me touch on GCR real quick. Our goal is to be as selective as possible. So sometimes there will be periods where GCR declines like in this period.

是的。所以從有機成長的角度來看，當然，這也是我們從 GCR 的角度，以及從業主直接的角度來看正在做的事情。那麼，讓我快速地談談全球貨幣重置（GCR）。我們的目標是盡可能做到精挑細選。所以有時候會出現全球貨幣供給下降的時期，就像現在這樣。

And that's a result of being super diligent to quality of work. And we're going to continue to push towards owner direct and be very opportunistic from that perspective. From an owner-direct side of things, we're building a long-term sales team, and we're building a long-term model to have success over multiple quarters and multiple years as well, too. So we haven't given a target out beyond this year. We hope that the insight of the 20% to 25% owner-direct organic will provide some insight to investors. But we're investing for the future. I will say that as well, too.

這是因為我們對工作品質極度認真負責。我們將繼續推進業主直銷模式，並從這個角度抓住一切機會。從公司所有者的角度來看，我們正在組建一支長期的銷售團隊，同時也在建立一個長期的模式，以期在未來幾季乃至幾年內取得成功。所以，我們沒有給出今年以後的目標。我們希望 20% 至 25% 的所有者直接有機增長的洞察能夠為投資者提供一些啟示。但我們正在為未來投資。我也會這麼說。

Okay. And then on kind of the opportunity for margin improvement overall, and I guess at Pioneer, how -- what's sort of the time line of that? And maybe what's -- can you get gross margins back to sort of where they've been? Is that the goal?

好的。然後，關於整體利潤率提升的機會，我想在 Pioneer 公司，這方面的時間表大概是怎麼樣的？或許，毛利率能否恢復到之前的水準？這就是目標嗎？

Yes. For Pioneer specifically, a lot of the work that we've done is transitioning to the accounting and operating system, which is important to us. It's not always the most exciting, but it's really important because it allows us to have visibility and to get on a common platform.

是的。具體到 Pioneer 公司而言，我們所做的工作很多都是過渡到會計和作業系統，這對我們來說非常重要。雖然這並不總是最令人興奮的，但它非常重要，因為它使我們能夠獲得關注，並進入一個共同的平台。

So that first phase -- we talked about that first phase, including structure and gross profit benchmarking can almost take almost up to a year. But that doesn't mean we're not doing things along the way. And I think the first thing that we look at is the gross profit benchmarking. Is there opportunity? Is there a low-hanging fruit? There has been on the other deals. We can't see why this wouldn't be any different.

所以第一階段——我們討論的第一階段，包括結構和毛利基準，可能需要長達一年的時間。但這並不意味著我們在過程中沒有做任何事情。我認為我們首先要看的是毛利基準。是否有機會？有沒有唾手可得的成果？其他交易中也存在這種情況。我們看不出為什麼這次的情況會有所不同。

But I think as we look into next year, definitely from an opportunity from that perspective as well, too. I think from an overall business, it's a matter of our ability to sell in a proactive nature. We've been -- we've had great success over the last couple of years of working with OpEx type work, understanding what customers' needs are.

但我認為，展望明年，從這個角度來看，這絕對也是一個機會。我認為從整體業務角度來看，這取決於我們能否積極主動地進行銷售。在過去的幾年裡，我們在營運卓越型工作中取得了巨大的成功，並了解了客戶的需求。

And I'm going to point to a specific example that we talked about in the prepared remarks was we had a customer in Florida. And we've been -- for the last 2 or 3 years, we've been really working from an OpEx perspective, taking care of all their problems.

我要舉一個具體的例子，我們在準備好的演講稿中提到過，我們在佛羅裡達州有一位客戶。在過去的2到3年裡，我們一直從營運支出（OpEx）的角度出發，努力解決他們所有的問題。

That's been high-margin work as well, too. They get to the point, though, where they're thinking, that's a lot of money that we're spending. And they end up in this quick period of pause. And it's our job at that point to say, listen, I know you're spending a lot from an OpEx perspective. You're going to have to spend a lot from an OpEx perspective.

而且，那也是利潤很高的工作。但到了某個時候，他們會想，我們花的錢太多了。於是，他們進入了短暫的停頓期。這時我們的任務就是說，聽著，我知道你們從營運支出角度來看花費了很多。從營運支出角度來看，你將需要投入大量資金。

But there's a reason that you're having that spend. And that developed ultimately into a capital project where we saw deterioration in the cooling system, and built something to get an important capital project with multiple phases to fix their long-term problem.

但你之所以會有這筆開支，是有原因的。最終，這發展成了一個資本項目，我們發現冷卻系統出現了故障，於是建造了一些東西，以完成一個分成多個階段的重要資本項目，從而解決他們的長期問題。

So that's the type of relationship where we have that OpEx recurring spend. A lot of times that OpEx spend will turn into capital projects. And those capital projects are not projects that we're competing against multiple people.

所以，這就是我們之間存在著營運支出經常性支出的那種關係。很多時候，營運支出會轉化為資本項目。而這些資本項目並不是我們需要與多人競爭的項目。

We're working on creating a pro forma, giving them cost certainty. And there's also an opportunity on -- a particular opportunity like that to earn really high margin as well, too. So it's a combination of continued improvement from Pioneer Power, running our playbook as well as this dynamic between OpEx, taking care of reactive relationships as well as developing proactive programs and projects as well, too. That's where we see kind of our key components going into next year.

我們正在努力製定一份預測性財務報表，讓他們對成本有明確的了解。而且，像這樣的特殊機會也能帶來非常高的利潤。因此，這是 Pioneer Power 不斷改進、執行我們的策略以及營運卓越部門之間的這種動態的結合，既要處理被動關係，也要製定主動計劃和專案。這就是我們明年一些關鍵組成部分的展望。

Gerry Sweeney, ROTH Capital Partners.

Gerry Sweeney，ROTH Capital Partners。

I want to talk about -- it wouldn't be at the conference call if everybody didn't ask about gross margins -- or I'm sorry, about the organic growth. So obviously, there were some questions about hitting your range on organic growth. And you mentioned fourth quarter being relatively strong. For lack of a better term, are you anticipating a budget flush? And I've gone back and looked at a couple of fourth quarters versus 3Q and not every year, but there's been several years when you see a significant uptick in revenue.

我想談談——如果大家不問毛利率，那就不算是電話會議了——或者，抱歉，談談有機成長。顯然，對於如何實現自然增長，存在一些疑問。你提到第四季表現相對較好。恕我直言，您是否預期預算會大幅縮減？我回顧了幾個季度的第四季與第三季的數據，雖然不是每年都是如此，但有好幾年收入都出現了顯著成長。

So I want to get your thoughts on how that's going to occur.

所以我想聽聽你們對這件事將如何發生的看法。

I don't know if I would characterize it as budget flush, but I would characterize it as -- it's a cross-section of two things that go on from our customer relationships, ensuring that they're properly spending their budgets as they exit the year. So there are opportunities where there's a lot of times (technical difficulty). We're also thinking about what they're going to re-up next year as well, too. So it's a dynamic of completing budgets for '25 and even some of the budgets that have been delayed as well as what do I need to do in 2026. So it depends on the vertical.

我不知道是否應該將其描述為預算充裕，但我會將其描述為——這是我們與客戶關係中兩件事的交匯點，確保他們在年底前合理地使用預算。所以有很多機會（技術難題）我們也在考慮他們明年會續簽哪些合約。所以，這是一個動態的過程，包括完成 2025 年的預算，甚至包括一些被延遲的預算，以及我在 2026 年需要做什麼。所以這取決於垂直方向。

I think from a healthcare perspective, we have lots of conversations with customers from that perspective as well, too. It could be from a higher ed. Industrial manufacturing, those customers have been pretty consistent from a spend perspective as well, too. So it's really the dynamic between the two versus '25 versus '26. But the key nature of our work is being in a mission-critical facility. Then maybe they'll pause it for, but inevitably, they're going to have to spend, and it's our job to make sure that they spend it as well too. And so we're trying to manage that dynamic with them.

我認為從醫療保健的角度來看，我們也從這個角度與客戶進行了許多對話。它可能來自高等教育機構。從支出角度來看，工業製造業的客戶也一直相當穩定。所以，這其實是兩者之間的動態，以及 25 年和 26 年之間的動態。但我們工作的關鍵在於身處在一個至關重要的設施中。也許他們會暫停一段時間，但不可避免地，他們還是要花錢的，而我們的工作就是確保他們也把錢花出去。所以我們正在努力處理與他們之間的這種關係。

Got it. How much visibility do you have in ODR? Like as of today, can you see out to the end of the year? Obviously, there could be some emergency work, et cetera. But what does visibility in ODR really look like?

知道了。您在 ODR 方面有多大的影響力？就目前而言，你能預見到年底的情況嗎？顯然，可能會有一些緊急工作等等。但在線爭議解決中的可見性究竟是什麼樣的呢？

Yes. We gave some additional information and color of this dynamic between 1/3 of the work being quick burning work and then 2/3 being smaller projects as well, too. And we hope that, that provides some additional color as well, too. The 1/3 work you traditionally know when it comes, there are some avenues of things that needs to happen, but there's relative consistency from that perspective as well, too. The 2/3 is fixed price project work, but it is relatively small in nature as well, too.

是的。我們還補充了一些信息，並詳細描述了這種動態：三分之一的工作是需要快速完成的工作，而另外三分之二則是較小的項目。我們也希望這能增添一些色彩。傳統上，1/3 的工作量是指需要完成的一些事情，但從這個角度來看，也有相對的一致性。這 2/3 是固定價格專案工作，但規模也相對較小。

So if we really look at where the customers are at, we focus on a core group of customers, understanding what their spend profiles as well, too. I think the other thing, too, that's part of the dynamic of the owner direct revenue is our ability that we have sales staff. The sales staff with certain pipelines dynamic with customers as well, too.

因此，如果我們真正了解客戶的現狀，我們會專注於核心客戶群，並了解他們的消費情況。我認為，業主直接收入的動態因素之一，就是我們擁有銷售人員的能力。銷售人員與客戶之間也存在著一定的互動關係。

So it really comes down to the 1/3, 2/3 as well as the dynamic of where the customers are from a budget perspective. As we -- I feel like we move into future years, we're going to continue to increase visibility from that perspective as well, too.

所以，這其實取決於三分之一、三分之二的比例，以及顧客從預算角度來看所處的動態。隨著我們——我覺得我們進入未來幾年，我們也將繼續從這個角度提高知名度。

Got it. Switching gears, you talked a little bit about local growth or developing relationships on the local level, which certainly has its benefits, but also looking to develop national relationships. How far along are you on the ladder on the sort of national relationship in terms of sales, building that out? There are different animals, local and national.

知道了。話鋒一轉，您剛才談到了本地發展或在本地層面建立關係，這當然有其好處，但同時也要考慮發展全國性的關係。在建立和拓展全國銷售關係方面，你們的進展如何？這裡有各種各樣的動物，包括地方性的和全國性的。

It's interesting. We've probably been -- when we first started out, we thought that this would go super quick. And we probably started with 4 or 5 years ago. And you realize like it takes time and you're cracking in different levels from a customer perspective. Big customers, it may not be C-suite or may be a couple of levels down.

很有意思。我們可能曾經是——當我們剛開始的時候，我們認為這會進展得非常快。我們大概是在四、五年前開始的。你會意識到這需要時間，而且你要從客戶的角度在不同的層面上取得突破。大客戶，可能不是高階主管，或是等級要低幾級。

We've been at it for probably 4 or 5 years now. But this year, I think more than others, we've finally been in a position where they trust us, they've given us that pilot work project. And by the way, this work consists of running a facility program over multiple facilities. It could be project work, engineering work, staff augmentation we've done. So we've put all that hard work in there.

我們已經做了大概四、五年了。但今年，我認為比往年更甚，我們終於獲得了他們的信任，他們把試點工作計畫交給了我們。順便說一下，這項工作包括在多個設施上運行設施管理程序。可能是我們完成的專案工作、工程工作、人員增補工作。所以我們付出了那麼多努力。

And that's allowed us to say, okay, I'm going to give you a bigger piece of the budget. As an example, that $12 million of projects that came out of those facility assessments, we couldn't have got that 2 years ago. They wouldn't have trusted us at that point. A lot of times they're in a position where they've got to spend the dollars, they've gone through the work, and it's not really a matter of competition at that point. So we're starting to see a blueprint with healthcare.

這使得我們可以說，好吧，我會給你更大的預算份額。舉例來說，透過這些設施評估而產生的 1,200 萬美元項目，是我們兩年前不可能獲得的。當時他們不會信任我們的。很多時候，他們必須花錢，他們已經付出了努力，到了那個時候，競爭就不是問題了。所以，我們開始看到醫療保健領域的發展藍圖了。

And we feel like we can apply that same blueprint to some of our other verticals as well, too, whether it's industrial manufacturing or data center and tech, we feel like there's a blueprint. So we're looking at those as well, too. And hopefully, we're looking at it as not taking as long because we're going to apply the same blueprint. But the key is that's acting as a trusted advisor through a professional service type offering and allowing us to make long-term decisions with them and being in a position when they have that spend that needs to happen.

我們覺得也可以將同樣的模式應用到我們其他的一些垂直領域，無論是工業製造還是資料中心和技術，我們都覺得存在一種模式。所以我們也在關注這些方面。希望我們能盡快完成，因為我們將採用相同的方案。但關鍵在於，我們要透過專業的服務成為他們值得信賴的顧問，讓他們能夠與我們一起做出長期的決策，並在他們需要支出時能夠及時提供幫助。

There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to pass the floor back over to Mike McCann for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題了。現在我把發言權交還給麥克麥肯，讓他做總結發言。

In closing, our priorities as we close out 2025 are as following: continuing to drive top line growth, further expanding our customer relationships to turn technical sales into financial sales, ongoing successful integration of Pioneer in building our M&A pipeline.

最後，我們2025年即將結束之際的優先事項如下：持續推動營收成長，進一步拓展客戶關係，將科技銷售轉化為金融銷售，繼續成功地將Pioneer整合到我們的併購管道中。

At Limbach, we're building a long-term business model designed to deliver durable demand over time. We're making strategic investments where others may not, and we bring a unique combination of an account focused, engineering expertise and the ability to execute those solutions directly with building owners.

在 Limbach，我們正在建立一個長期的商業模式，旨在隨著時間的推移提供持久的需求。我們正在進行一些其他人可能不會進行的策略性投資，我們擁有獨特的優勢，包括以客戶為中心的服務理念、工程技術專長以及直接與業主合作執行這些解決方案的能力。

These relationships are rooted in a long-term partnership, where through consultative engagement, we're helping our clients develop multiyear capital plans that go beyond traditional backlog. We believe this differentiated business model positions us for sustained growth and risk-adjusted returns.

這些關係建立在長期的合作關係之上，透過諮詢式參與，我們幫助客戶制定超越傳統積壓訂單的多年資本計劃。我們相信，這種差異化的商業模式將使我們實現持續成長和經風險調整後的回報。

We look forward to meeting and speaking with many of you before the end of the year. On December 2, we're attending the UBS Global Industrials and Transportation Conference in Florida. We hope to see some of you there. Thank you again for your interest in Limbach, and have a great rest of your day.

我們期待在年底前與各位見面交流。12月2日，我們將參加在佛羅裡達州舉行的瑞銀全球工業和交通運輸大會。我們希望在那裡見到你們中的一些人。再次感謝您對林巴赫的關注，並祝您今天餘下的時間愉快。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您可以在此時斷開線路。感謝您的參與。