Lumentum Holdings Inc (LITE) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Lumentum Holdings Fiscal Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Please also, note today's event is being recorded for replay purposes. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎參加 Lumentum Holdings 第四季度和 2023 財年收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）另請注意，正在錄製今天的活動以供重播之用。 （操作員說明）

At this time, I would like to turn the conference call over to Kathy Ta, Vice President of Investor Relations. Ms. Ta, please go ahead.

現在，我想將電話會議轉交給投資者關係副總裁 Kathy Ta。塔女士，請講。

Thank you, and welcome to Lumentum's Fiscal Fourth Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. This is Kathy Ta, Lumentum's Vice President of Investor Relations. Joining me today are Alan Lowe, President and Chief Executive Officer; Wajid Ali, Chief Financial Officer; and Chris Coldren, Senior Vice President and Chief Strategy and Corporate Development Officer.

謝謝，歡迎參加 Lumentum 的 2023 年第四季度財報電話會議。我是 Kathy Ta，Lumentum 投資者關係副總裁。今天與我一起出席的有總裁兼首席執行官艾倫·洛 (Alan Lowe)；瓦吉德·阿里，首席財務官；以及高級副總裁兼首席戰略和企業發展官 Chris Coldren。

Today's call will include forward-looking statements, including statements regarding our expectations and beliefs regarding synergies of recent acquisitions, including NeoPhotonics; financial and operating results, macroeconomic trends; trends and expectations for our products and technology, our end markets, market opportunities and customers; and our expected financial performance, including our guidance as well as statements regarding our future revenues, financial model and margin targets.

今天的電話會議將包括前瞻性陳述，包括有關我們對最近收購的協同效應的期望和信念的陳述，包括 NeoPhotonics；財務和經營業績、宏觀經濟趨勢；我們的產品和技術、終端市場、市場機會和客戶的趨勢和期望；我們的預期財務業績，包括我們的指導以及有關我們未來收入、財務模型和利潤目標的聲明。

These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations, particularly the risk factors described in our SEC filings. We encourage you to review our most recent filings with the SEC, particularly the risk factors described in the quarterly report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended April 1, 2023, and those in the 10-K for the fiscal year ended July 1, 2023, to be filed by Lumentum with the SEC.

這些陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能導致實際結果與我們當前的預期存在重大差異，特別是我們向 SEC 文件中描述的風險因素。我們鼓勵您查看我們最近向 SEC 提交的文件，特別是截至 2023 年 4 月 1 日的季度 10-Q 表格季度報告以及截至 7 月 1 日的財年 10-K 中描述的風險因素，2023 年，由Lumentum 向SEC 提交。

The forward-looking statements provided during this call are based on Lumentum's reasonable beliefs and expectations as of today. Lumentum undertakes no obligation to update these statements, except as required by applicable law.

本次電話會議中提供的前瞻性陳述基於 Lumentum 截至目前的合理信念和預期。除適用法律要求外，Lumentum 不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。

Please also note that, unless otherwise stated, all financial results and projections discussed in this call are non-GAAP. Non-GAAP financials are not to be considered as a substitute for or superior to financials prepared in accordance with GAAP. Lumentum's press release with the fiscal fourth quarter and full year 2023 results and accompanying supplemental slides are available on our website at www.lumentum.com under the Investors section.

另請注意，除非另有說明，本次電話會議中討論的所有財務業績和預測均為非公認會計準則。非 GAAP 財務數據不應被視為替代或優於根據 GAAP 編制的財務數據。 Lumentum 發布的包含第四財季和 2023 年全年業績的新聞稿以及隨附的補充幻燈片可在我們網站 www.lumentum.com 的“投資者”部分查看。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Alan.

這樣，我會將電話轉給艾倫。

Thank you, Kathy, and good morning, everyone. We are extremely optimistic about the long-term secular demand drivers in the markets in which we participate and lead. Additionally, our efforts and investments to grow our share in our existing markets and adjacent markets are generating positive traction that will benefit us for years to come. Our focus on technology and product leadership will ensure our growth and differentiation in support of our customers' needs now and into the future.

謝謝你，凱西，大家早上好。我們對我們參與和領導的市場的長期長期需求驅動因素極為樂觀。此外，我們為增加現有市場和鄰近市場份額而做出的努力和投資正在產生積極的吸引力，這將使我們在未來幾年受益。我們對技術和產品領先地位的關注將確保我們的成長和差異化，以支持客戶現在和未來的需求。

In the near term, we are facing significant headwinds as both our direct and end customers actively work to reduce their elevated inventory levels. We believe that the current customer inventory correction cycle will continue through the balance of the calendar year, and therefore, our shipments will be well below end-market demand. Even at these depressed shipment levels, we believe we are continuing to grow our market share outside of the consumer market.

短期內，我們面臨著巨大的阻力，因為我們的直接客戶和最終客戶都在積極努力降低庫存水平。我們相信，當前的客戶庫存調整週期將持續整個日曆年的剩餘時間，因此，我們的出貨量將遠低於終端市場的需求。即使在出貨量低迷的情況下，我們相信我們仍將繼續擴大消費市場以外的市場份額。

We are seeing meaningful demand strengthening for our Datacom chips as hyperscale customers prepare to ramp AI capacity. We believe that our Telecom and Datacom revenue will be up in calendar '24 compared to calendar '23, as inventory levels should return to more appropriate levels at our customers and their customers.

隨著超大規模客戶準備提高人工智能容量，我們看到對我們的數據通信芯片的需求顯著增強。我們相信，與 23 日曆年相比，我們的電信和數據通信收入在 24 日曆年將有所增長，因為我們的客戶及其客戶的庫存水平應恢復到更合適的水平。

Despite the inventory headwind we experienced in the second half of fiscal '23, our full year revenue was up 3% from fiscal '22. Also, fourth quarter revenue and EPS were both above the midpoints of our guidance ranges we announced last quarter.

儘管我們在 23 財年下半年遇到了庫存逆風，但我們的全年收入比 22 財年增長了 3%。此外，第四季度的收入和每股收益均高於我們上季度宣布的指導範圍的中點。

Our acquisition integration is going very well. And in fact, we have completed our ERP consolidation and are now running on one company-wide ERP system. We are tracking ahead of our previously announced synergy plans, while we continue to deliver on our new product and technology road maps. At the same time, we continue to focus on our customers to drive an even stronger partnership and a differentiated level of satisfaction.

我們的收購整合進展順利。事實上，我們已經完成了 ERP 整合，現在正在全公司範圍內運行一個 ERP 系統。我們正在跟踪之前宣布的協同計劃，同時繼續交付我們的新產品和技術路線圖。與此同時，我們繼續關注客戶，以推動更牢固的合作夥伴關係和差異化的滿意度。

ROADM revenue was especially strong in Q4 with increased sequential shipments across all ROADM product categories. Also, our commercial lasers business grew sequentially, particularly in new applications of ultrafast lasers for the solar cell market.

ROADM 收入在第四季度尤其強勁，所有 ROADM 產品類別的連續出貨量均有所增加。此外，我們的商用激光器業務連續增長，特別是在太陽能電池市場的超快激光器新應用方面。

As I indicated earlier, long-term demand trends for photonics products continue to be extremely favorable. Generational upgrades to C+ L-band as well as extended C and extended L-band architectures are underway in the backbone of networks where our transmission and transport products are highly differentiated and enabling for our customers.

正如我之前指出的，光子產品的長期需求趨勢仍然非常有利。網絡骨幹中正在進行對 C+ L 波段以及擴展 C 和擴展 L 波段架構的世代升級，我們的傳輸和傳輸產品在其中具有高度差異化並為我們的客戶提供支持。

We are designing products for the next generation of our customers' Photonics road maps, which will use 130 gigabaud and 200 gigabaud data rate coherent technologies. We are developing these high-speed products in both discrete and integrated form factors, paving the way for enhanced performance in metro and long-haul applications as well as new applications at the edge of the network.

我們正在為客戶的下一代光子學路線圖設計產品，該路線圖將使用 130 GB 和 200 GB 數據速率相干技術。我們正在開發這些分立式和集成式高速產品，為增強城域和長途應用以及網絡邊緣新應用的性能鋪平道路。

With the addition of the teams from our NeoPhotonics and IPG acquisitions and the capabilities to develop DSPs and RFICs, we believe that our vertically integrated approach to these high-speed transmission products will give us the lowest product cost in the industry.

隨著我們收購 NeoPhotonics 和 IPG 的團隊的加入以及開發 DSP 和 RFIC 的能力，我們相信我們對這些高速傳輸產品的垂直整合方法將為我們帶來業內最低的產品成本。

In addition, we demonstrated our coherent 800G ZR technology earlier this year, which we believe is the industry's first which will provide high-speed connectivity with extended reach for data center interconnect within metropolitan areas.

此外，我們在今年早些時候展示了我們的相干 800G ZR 技術，我們相信這是業界首創，它將為大都市地區的數據中心互連提供高速連接和更廣泛的覆蓋範圍。

Turning to cloud data centers. As I indicated earlier, we are seeing increased customer activity for AI in the data center and expect this to translate to increased shipments of our chip level products for 800-gig transceivers. We have broadened our Datacom product portfolio with continuous wave or CW lasers for silicon photonic applications that connect server racks and AI clusters, which require higher data rates while consuming less power. Starting in fiscal Q1, we expect a return to sequential growth in our Datacom revenue.

轉向雲數據中心。正如我之前指出的，我們看到數據中心人工智能的客戶活動有所增加，並預計這將轉化為我們 800 吉收發器芯片級產品出貨量的增加。我們通過連續波或連續波激光器擴大了我們的數據通信產品組合，適用於連接服務器機架和人工智能集群的矽光子應用，這些應用需要更高的數據速率，同時消耗更少的功耗。從第一財季開始，我們預計數據通信收入將恢復環比增長。

The data center optical component market is projected to grow sharply over the next 4 to 5 years to accommodate the increased traffic associated with AI as customers employ ever higher bandwidth interconnects between racks, within racks and between servers and storage. We also believe that Datacom VCSEL growth will be meaningful in the next several years as copper is replaced by short-reach multimode optical links.

隨著客戶在機架之間、機架內以及服務器和存儲之間採用更高帶寬的互連，數據中心光學組件市場預計將在未來4 到5 年內大幅增長，以適應與人工智能相關的流量增加。我們還相信，隨著銅被短距離多模光鏈路取代，數據通信 VCSEL 的增長在未來幾年將具有重大意義。

As stated earlier, we expect Telecom and Datacom revenue to be up in calendar '24 from calendar '23 as customers reduce their inventory levels of our products and our shipment rate is more in sync within market demand.

如前所述，隨著客戶減少我們產品的庫存水平，並且我們的發貨率與市場需求更加同步，我們預計 24 日曆年的電信和數據通信收入將比 23 日曆年有所增長。

Before I provide additional detail on the fourth quarter results, I would like to address the topic of China's export controls placed on gallium and germanium. We have determined that our existing supply is sufficient for the medium term, and therefore, we expect that these controls will have little to no impact on our manufacturing output. We will continue to monitor the situation and work with our suppliers to source material outside of China to mitigate any long-term impacts of these controls.

在提供有關第四季度業績的更多細節之前，我想談談中國對鎵和鍺的出口管制的話題。我們已經確定，我們現有的供應足以滿足中期需求，因此，我們預計這些控制措施對我們的製造產量幾乎沒有影響。我們將繼續監控情況，並與我們的供應商合作，在中國境外採購材料，以減輕這些控制措施的任何長期影響。

Now let me turn to the fourth quarter and full year results. Telecom and Datacom revenue was down 2% sequentially but up 2% year-on-year. As expected, we saw sequentially lower shipments of tunable access modules in the quarter. As we expand our customer base and current customers complete near-term product transitions and reduce inventory levels, we expect this business to return to growth in fiscal '24.

現在讓我談談第四季度和全年的業績。電信和數據通信收入環比下降 2%，但同比增長 2%。正如預期的那樣，我們看到本季度可調諧接入模塊的出貨量連續下降。隨著我們擴大客戶群以及現有客戶完成近期產品轉型並降低庫存水平，我們預計該業務將在 24 財年恢復增長。

The lower revenue in tunable access modules was partially offset by sequential increases in narrow line with tunable lasers and ROADM shipments across several leading customers. In fiscal '23, our tunable access module product line achieved new record revenues, growing 57% year-over-year with strength in metro access and fiber-deep applications. These products enabled cable MSOs and wireless network operators to improve network performance while avoiding the cost of replacing existing infrastructure.

可調諧接入模塊收入的下降被幾個領先客戶的窄線可調諧激光器和 ROADM 出貨量的連續增長所部分抵消。在 23 財年，我們的可調諧接入模塊產品線收入創下新紀錄，同比增長 57%，在城域接入和光纖深度應用方面表現強勁。這些產品使有線 MSO 和無線網絡運營商能夠提高網絡性能，同時避免更換現有基礎設施的成本。

In fiscal '23, we doubled our manufacturing capacity for tunable access modules in our wafer fab and our back-end assembly and test factories to address the anticipated growth in our shipments to these customers. Our ultra-narrow line with tunable lasers and our advanced ROADMs are key enablers of our customers' next-generation network architectures that are just starting to be deployed. We saw sequential growth in narrow line with tunable lasers and across all major categories of ROADMs, including low-port count, high-port count and contentionless MxN platforms.

在 23 財年，我們將晶圓廠以及後端組裝和測試工廠的可調諧接入模塊的製造能力提高了一倍，以滿足我們對這些客戶的出貨量的預期增長。我們的超窄線可調激光器和先進的 ROADM 是客戶剛剛開始部署的下一代網絡架構的關鍵推動者。我們看到可調諧激光器和所有主要類別的 ROADM 的窄線連續增長，包括低端口數、高端口數和無爭用 MxN 平台。

Also, fiscal '23 ROADM revenue grew 22% from fiscal '22, driven by the adoption of these advanced ROADM architectures. Cloud data centers are being redesigned to support the high bandwidth requirements of AI workloads. These workloads require several times more bandwidth than traditional cloud computing.

此外，在採用這些先進 ROADM 架構的推動下，23 財年 ROADM 收入比 22 財年增長了 22%。雲數據中心正在重新設計，以支持人工智能工作負載的高帶寬要求。這些工作負載需要比傳統雲計算多幾倍的帶寬。

At this early stage of AI hardware deployment, 800G transceivers can provide the bandwidth while also reducing latency. The new 800-gig transceivers utilized 8 different wavelengths at 100 gig per lane, triggering orders for our EML products and driving a return to growth for our EML product line.

在人工智能硬件部署的早期階段，800G 收發器可以提供帶寬，同時減少延遲。新的 800 GB 收發器採用 8 個不同的波長，每通道 100 GB，觸發了我們的 EML 產品訂單，並推動我們的 EML 產品線恢復增長。

Additionally, we are seeing strong demand for our high-power CW lasers for customers utilizing silicon photonics to build 800G transceivers. In calendar '24, our 200-gig per lane EMLs will enable the next generation of transceivers with capacity of up to 1.6 terabits. We expect to start ramping shipments of 200-gig EML products in calendar '24 and customer qualifications of 800G and 1.6-terabit transceiver designs are well underway. We expect our 200G per lane optics to be the workhorse of hyperscale data centers for years to come.

此外，我們還看到利用矽光子技術構建 800G 收發器的客戶對我們的高功率 CW 激光器的強勁需求。在 24 世紀，我們的每通道 200 GB EML 將支持容量高達 1.6 太比特的下一代收發器。我們預計在 2024 年開始增加 200-g EML 產品的出貨量，並且 800G 和 1.6 太比特收發器設計的客戶認證工作正在順利進行。我們預計每通道 200G 光學器件將成為未來幾年超大規模數據中心的主力。

To further address the connectivity requirements for AI and machine learning clusters, we have been developing high-speed VCSELs for short-reach connections between servers and switches in these systems, and we expect to begin to ramp these shipments meaningfully in calendar '24.

為了進一步滿足人工智能和機器學習集群的連接要求，我們一直在開發高速 VCSEL，用於這些系統中服務器和交換機之間的短距離連接，我們預計將在 2024 年開始大幅增加這些出貨量。

In the longer term, we also expect to supply even higher-power CW lasers for leading AI hardware architectures to provide the high bandwidth, low-latency optical interconnects essential for training and inference applications.

從長遠來看，我們還期望為領先的人工智能硬件架構提供更高功率的連續激光器，以提供訓練和推理應用所必需的高帶寬、低延遲光學互連。

Turning to Industrial and Consumer. Fiscal Q4 was down from Q3 and down year-over-year as expected due to smartphone seasonality and end-market demand. We continue to expect our fiscal '24 3D sensing revenue will be lower than that of fiscal '23 due to our assumption around 3D sensing end-market demand, pricing and an additional competitor on a certain socket, as discussed previously.

轉向工業和消費品。由於智能手機季節性和終端市場需求，第四季度財報較第三季度有所下降，且同比下降符合預期。正如前面所討論的，由於我們對 3D 傳感終端市場需求、定價以及特定插槽上的其他競爭對手的假設，我們繼續預計 24 財年 3D 傳感收入將低於 23 財年。

In the fourth quarter, Commercial lasers revenue was up 4% sequentially, but down 2% from the same quarter last year. Overall, fiscal '23 Commercial lasers revenue was up 8% from fiscal '22. We achieved a 35% sequential growth in ultrafast laser revenue and over 25% sequential growth in fiber lasers, which was partially offset by sequentially lower solid-state laser shipments primarily for semiconductor applications. Our growth in ultrafast lasers is being driven by new applications, particularly in solar cell processing.

第四季度，商用激光器收入環比增長4%，但較去年同期下降2%。總體而言，23 財年商用激光器收入比 22 財年增長了 8%。我們的超快激光器收入實現了 35% 的環比增長，光纖激光器的環比增長超過 25%，但這部分被主要用於半導體應用的固態激光器出貨量環比下降所抵消。我們在超快激光器方面的增長是由新應用推動的，特別是在太陽能電池加工方面。

We expect that as demand for these new types of applications grows, we will continue to gain share in ultrafast lasers. Based on our latest customer forecast, we expect overall Commercial lasers demand to be softer over the next several quarters due to customer inventory digestion and macro factors impacting end markets. We expect continued rapid growth in new applications for our ultrafast lasers to partially offset these near-term headwinds.

我們預計，隨著這些新型應用的需求增長，我們將繼續獲得超快激光器的份額。根據我們最新的客戶預測，由於客戶庫存消化和影響終端市場的宏觀因素，我們預計未來幾個季度商用激光器的總體需求將趨於疲軟。我們預計超快激光器新應用的持續快速增長將部分抵消這些近期的不利因素。

Although we expect our shipments in the near term to be soft, I'm very confident about Lumentum's mid- to long-term prospects given the current softness is primarily driven by high inventory levels, the fundamental end market and technology trends driving our growth expectations are strong and unchanged, and Lumentum is investing in R&D to capitalize upon the long-term growth drivers and is uniquely positioned to serve our customers at scale with financial and structural resilience built into our business model.

儘管我們預計近期出貨量將疲軟，但我對 Lumentum 的中長期前景非常有信心，因為當前的疲軟主要是由高庫存水平、基本終端市場和技術趨勢推動我們的增長預期推動的實力雄厚且未變，Lumentum 正在投資於研發，以利用長期增長動力，並具有獨特的優勢，可以通過我們的業務模式中內置的財務和結構彈性來大規模服務我們的客戶。

In the near term, we are focused on expense controls while maintaining crucial R&D to continue to drive the forefront of innovation as we partner with our customers.

短期內，我們將重點關注費用控制，同時保持關鍵的研發，以便在與客戶合作時繼續推動創新的前沿。

Before turning it over to Wajid, I would like to thank our employees and our customers around the world for their focus and dedication as they continue to collaborate and partner with Lumentum as we execute upon our strategy.

在將其移交給 Wajid 之前，我要感謝我們的員工和世界各地的客戶的關注和奉獻，他們在我們執行戰略時繼續與 Lumentum 合作和合作。

With that, Wajid?

就這樣，瓦吉德？

Thank you, Alan. Net revenue for the fourth quarter was $370.8 million, which was down 3% sequentially and down 12% year-on-year. As Alan mentioned, this revenue level was not unexpected and was driven primarily by the customer inventory digestion we have seen and expect to persist through the end of the calendar year.

謝謝你，艾倫。第四季度淨收入為 3.708 億美元，環比下降 3%，同比下降 12%。正如艾倫所提到的，這種收入水平並不出乎意料，主要是由我們所看到的客戶庫存消化推動的，並預計將持續到今年年底。

During the quarter, we had 3 greater-than-10% customers, all in the telecom market with no 10% customers in the Consumer market. GAAP gross margin for the fourth quarter was 24.2%, GAAP operating loss was 15.1% and GAAP diluted net loss per share was $0.88.

本季度，我們有 3 個超過 10% 的客戶，全部位於電信市場，沒有 10% 的客戶來自消費市場。第四季度 GAAP 毛利率為 24.2%，GAAP 運營虧損為 15.1%，GAAP 攤薄後每股淨虧損為 0.88 美元。

Fourth quarter non-GAAP gross margin was 36.7%, which was down sequentially and year-on-year, primarily driven by product mix, factory underutilization and lower revenue. Fourth quarter non-GAAP operating margin was 9.1%, which decreased sequentially and year-on-year. Fourth quarter non-GAAP operating income was $33.7 million, and adjusted EBITDA was $59.4 million. Fourth quarter non-GAAP operating expenses totaled $102.4 million or 27.6% of revenue. Non-GAAP operating expenses were down $2.5 million from Q3 due to tight expense controls. Q4 non-GAAP SG&A expense was $40.7 million. Non-GAAP R&D expense was $61.7 million. Interest and other income was $13.3 million on a non-GAAP basis due to higher interest rates on our cash and investments. Fourth quarter non-GAAP net income was $40.2 million, and non-GAAP diluted net income per share was $0.59. Our fully diluted share count for the fourth quarter was 68.6 million shares on a non-GAAP basis. Our non-GAAP tax rate remains at 14.5%.

第四季度非 GAAP 毛利率為 36.7%，環比和同比下降，主要是由於產品組合、工廠利用率不足和收入下降。第四季度非 GAAP 運營利潤率為 9.1%，環比和同比下降。第四季度非 GAAP 營業收入為 3,370 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 5,940 萬美元。第四季度非 GAAP 運營支出總計 1.024 億美元，佔收入的 27.6%。由於嚴格的費用控制，非 GAAP 運營費用較第三季度減少了 250 萬美元。第四季度非 GAAP SG&A 費用為 4070 萬美元。非 GAAP 研發費用為 6170 萬美元。由於我們的現金和投資利率較高，按非公認會計原則計算，利息和其他收入為 1,330 萬美元。第四季度非 GAAP 淨利潤為 4020 萬美元，非 GAAP 攤薄後每股淨利潤為 0.59 美元。按非公認會計準則計算，我們第四季度完全攤薄後的股票數量為 6860 萬股。我們的非 GAAP 稅率仍為 14.5%。

Turning to the full year results. Fiscal '23 net revenue was $1.77 billion, which was up 3.2% from fiscal '22. GAAP gross margin for fiscal '23 was 32.2%, GAAP operating loss was 6.5% and GAAP diluted net loss per share was $1.93. Full year fiscal '23 non-GAAP gross margin was 43.2%, which was down relative to fiscal '22. Fiscal year '23 non-GAAP operating margin was at 19.2%, down from fiscal '22. Fiscal '23 non-GAAP operating income was $339.2 million, and adjusted EBITDA was $431.7 million.

轉向全年業績。 23 財年淨收入為 17.7 億美元，比 22 財年增長 3.2%。 23 財年的 GAAP 毛利率為 32.2%，GAAP 營業虧損為 6.5%，GAAP 攤薄後每股淨虧損為 1.93 美元。 23 財年全年非 GAAP 毛利率為 43.2%，較 22 財年有所下降。 23 財年非 GAAP 營業利潤率為 19.2%，低於 22 財年。 23 財年非 GAAP 營業收入為 3.392 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 為 4.317 億美元。

For fiscal '23, our fully diluted share count on a non-GAAP basis was 69.1 million shares. And non-GAAP net income was $315.3 million and non-GAAP diluted net income per share was $4.56.

在 23 財年，我們按照非公認會計準則計算的完全攤薄後的股票數量為 6910 萬股。非 GAAP 淨利潤為 3.153 億美元，非 GAAP 攤薄後每股淨利潤為 4.56 美元。

On to the balance sheet. Cash and short-term investments increased $346 million sequentially to $2 billion, primarily driven by our convertible note offering. During fiscal '23, we generated $179.8 million in cash from operations, of which $49.2 million was generated in fiscal Q4.

到資產負債表上。現金和短期投資環比增加 3.46 億美元，達到 20 億美元，這主要是由我們的可轉換票據發行推動的。在 23 財年，我們從運營中產生了 1.798 億美元的現金，其中 4920 萬美元是在第四財季產生的。

During the quarter, we purchased 2.67 million shares for $139.8 million, which includes 2.34 million shares repurchased concurrent with the issuance of our 2029 convertible notes. As we make progress on the integration of NeoPhotonics products into our global manufacturing footprint and attain synergies without impacting customer deliveries, we plan to carry elevated inventories over the short term. However, we expect inventories to decline by approximately $30 million exiting calendar year '23 as we continue to focus on cash generation.

本季度，我們以 1.398 億美元的價格購買了 267 萬股股票，其中包括在發行 2029 年可轉換票據的同時回購的 234 萬股股票。隨著我們在將 NeoPhotonics 產品整合到我們的全球製造足跡方面取得進展，並在不影響客戶交付的情況下實現協同效應，我們計劃在短期內增加庫存。然而，隨著我們繼續專注於現金生成，我們預計 23 日曆年的庫存將減少約 3000 萬美元。

Turning to segment details. Fourth quarter Optical Communications segment revenue at $320.5 million decreased 4.4% sequentially and down 13.6% year-on-year. Optical Communications segment non-GAAP gross margin at 36.1% decreased sequentially and year-on-year.

轉向細分細節。第四季度光通信部門收入為 3.205 億美元，環比下降 4.4%，同比下降 13.6%。光通信部門的非 GAAP 毛利率為 36.1%，環比下降，同比下降。

Our fourth quarter Lasers segment revenue at $50.3 million was up 4.1% sequentially and down 1.8% year-on-year. Fourth quarter lasers non-GAAP gross margin of 40.6% was up sequentially, but down year-on-year.

我們第四季度激光部門的收入為 5030 萬美元，環比增長 4.1%，同比下降 1.8%。第四季度激光器非公認會計準則毛利率為 40.6%，環比上升，但同比下降。

Now let me move to our guidance for the first quarter of fiscal '24, which is on a non-GAAP basis and is based on our assumptions as of today. We expect net revenue for the first quarter of fiscal '24 to be in the range of $300 million to $325 million. Within this Q1 revenue forecast, we anticipate Telecom and Datacom and Commercial Lasers to be down sequentially, driven primarily by customer inventory dynamics we have discussed. We expect Industrial and Consumer to be approximately flat sequentially. Based on this, we project first quarter non-GAAP operating margin to be in the range of 1% to 4% and diluted net income per share to be in the range of $0.20 to $0.35.

現在讓我談談我們對 24 財年第一季度的指導，該指導基於非 GAAP 基礎，並且基於我們截至目前的假設。我們預計 24 財年第一季度的淨收入將在 3 億美元至 3.25 億美元之間。在第一季度收入預測中，我們預計電信和數據通信以及商用激光器將連續下降，這主要是受到我們討論過的客戶庫存動態的推動。我們預計工業和消費品行業將環比持平。據此，我們預計第一季度非 GAAP 運營利潤率將在 1% 至 4% 之間，攤薄後每股淨利潤將在 0.20 美元至 0.35 美元之間。

Our non-GAAP EPS guidance for the first quarter is based on a non-GAAP annual effective tax rate of 14.5%. These projections also assume an approximate share count of 67 million shares.

我們第一季度的非 GAAP 每股收益指引是基於 14.5% 的非 GAAP 年度有效稅率。這些預測還假設股數約為 6700 萬股。

In terms of expectations beyond Q1, as Alan mentioned, we do expect a return to growth in Telecom and Datacom shipments in calendar '24 compared to calendar '23, as customer inventory levels are reduced and our shipment rate is more in sync with end-market demand.

就第一季度之後的預期而言，正如艾倫所提到的，我們確實預計，與23 日曆年相比，24 日曆年電信和數據通信出貨量將恢復增長，因為客戶庫存水平降低，並且我們的發貨率與終端更加同步。市場需求。

Our synergy plan that we communicated at our March investor event at OFC is proceeding ahead of schedule in terms of operating expense reductions. We will exit certain manufacturing facilities at the end of this calendar year, which will deliver significant cost of goods sold synergies over the subsequent quarters. Overall, we remain on track to the total synergy plan of $80 million in annualized savings that we articulated previously, and we have achieved over half of the savings in fiscal year '23.

我們在 OFC 3 月份投資者活動中傳達的協同計劃在運營費用削減方面正在提前推進。我們將在今年年底退出某些製造設施，這將在接下來的幾個季度帶來顯著的銷售成本協同效應。總體而言，我們仍然致力於實現之前提出的每年節省 8000 萬美元的總體協同計劃，並且我們在 23 財年實現了一半以上的節省。

With that, I'll turn the call back to Kathy to start the Q&A session. Kathy?

之後，我會將電話轉回給 Kathy，開始問答環節。凱西？

Thank you, Wajid. (Operator Instructions). Now let's begin the Q&A session.

謝謝你，瓦吉德。 （操作員說明）。現在我們開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Meta Marshall from Morgan Stanley. Again, Meta Marshall from Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自摩根士丹利的Meta Marshall。再次是來自摩根士丹利的梅塔·馬歇爾。

Sorry. Just having the buttons day. Just in terms of how you guys are evaluating how much of this is inventory correction versus potential for share loss or just not being involved in certain platforms, just how are you kind of evaluating that given kind of repeated kind of step downs and maybe more particularly on the Telecom business, maybe as the first question.

對不起。剛剛度過了按鈕日。就你們如何評估其中有多少是庫存調整與潛在的份額損失或只是不參與某些平台而言，你們如何評估給定的重複類型的降級，也許更具體地說關於電信業務，也許是第一個問題。

Yes. Thanks, Meta. As we said in the remarks earlier, we believe we're not losing any share other than in the consumer space, where we've been talking about that share normalization and the third competitor.

是的。謝謝，梅塔。正如我們之前在講話中所說，我們相信除了消費者領域之外，我們不會失去任何份額，我們一直在談論份額正常化和第三個競爭對手。

I'd say in Telecom, we're very confident in our ability to continue to hold share, if not gain share, especially as we introduce new products. So I firmly believe that the slowdown in revenue is really, mostly inventory correction and has really nothing to do with share.

我想說，在電信領域，我們對繼續保持份額（即使不能獲得份額）的能力非常有信心，特別是當我們推出新產品時。因此，我堅信收入的放緩實際上主要是庫存調整，與份額無關。

Great. I mean just as a follow-up, just how do you examine kind of what -- or get a sense of what the inventory positions are? And is kind of the belief that revenue would resume kind of in the revenue growth would resume in the calendar '24 period based on when people are telling you that they want to start to get the equipment again? Or is it a matter of that's when you think that budgets will open up from your customers and they're expecting. I guess just is that an expectation? Or is that backed by kind of conversations you're having with customers?

偉大的。我的意思是，作為後續行動，您如何檢查某種內容，或者了解庫存狀況？人們是否相信收入會在 24 世紀日曆期間恢復收入增長，這是否基於人們告訴您他們想要再次開始獲得設備的時間？或者，當您認為客戶會提供預算並且他們正在期待時，這就是問題所在。我想這只是一種期望嗎？或者這是否得到了您與客戶的某種對話的支持？

Yes, I wouldn't say it has to do with releasing the budgets. I think it's primarily due to the inventory levels on their balance sheets and their desire to lower those, given the availability of components and the availability of us to supply. So I would say that as we look at the next few quarters, Telecom is going to be tough through the balance of the calendar year. And I'd say that we're seeing some signs of inventory absorption faster than expected at some of the hyperscalers where we expected that to take longer. So I think AI is helping with that, both inside the data center as well as in the data center interconnect space.

是的，我不會說這與發布預算有關。我認為這主要是由於他們資產負債表上的庫存水平以及考慮到組件的可用性和我們的供應能力，他們希望降低庫存水平。因此，我想說，當我們展望未來幾個季度時，電信行業在日曆年的剩餘時間內將面臨艱難處境。我想說的是，我們看到一些超大規模企業的庫存吸收速度快於預期的跡象，而我們預計這需要更長的時間。因此，我認為人工智能正在幫助解決這一問題，無論是在數據中心內部還是在數據中心互連領域。

So I think from that perspective, that's why we're confident about calendar '24 being higher than calendar '23. And those are really in-depth conversations with customer executives and really viewing our inventory in their locations and at their contract manufacturers. And that's why we believe that the next couple of quarters are going to take to get rid of that inventory.

所以我認為從這個角度來看，這就是為什麼我們對日曆'24比日曆'23更有信心。這些都是與客戶高管的真正深入的對話，並真正在他們的地點和合同製造商處查看我們的庫存。這就是為什麼我們相信接下來的幾個季度將需要擺脫這些庫存。

Your next question comes from the line of David Vogt from UBS.

您的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的大衛·沃格特 (David Vogt)。

And just two for me. One, Alan, going back to the inventory question, I guess, can you kind of help us understand, you made a comment that you think you're undershipping to industry demand, where that demand might be today? And how you see that demand sort of progressing as we move through this sort of more challenging period of time in '23 into '24? That kind of colors your view about recovering back to growth in calendar '24.

對我來說只有兩個。一，艾倫，回到庫存問題，我想，你能幫助我們理解一下，你發表了評論，認為你的出貨量低於行業需求，而今天的需求可能在哪裡？當我們經歷 23 年到 24 年這段更具挑戰性的時期時，您如何看待這種需求的進展？這會影響你對 24 年恢復增長的看法。

And then maybe a longer-term question, I'll just give you both at the same time. When you think about mix of the business today, obviously, Consumer and Industrial is a lot smaller than it was last year. And presumably, that's a relatively strong gross margin business. How should we think about the operating leverage as growth recovers in Telecom and Datacom in calendar '24 from a margin perspective? Obviously, it's unlikely that you're going to get back to the high 40s gross margin, but I want to get a better sense for maybe gross margin trajectory as we move through the balance of this -- the next 4 quarters into maybe fiscal '25.

然後也許是一個更長期的問題，我會同時給你們兩個。當你考慮今天的業務組合時，顯然，消費品和工業的規模比去年要小得多。據推測，這是一項毛利率相對較高的業務。從利潤率的角度來看，隨著 24 世紀電信和數據通信行業的增長復甦，我們應該如何看待運營槓桿？顯然，你不太可能回到 40 多歲的高毛利率，但我想更好地了解毛利率軌跡，因為我們正在經歷這個平衡 - 未來 4 個季度可能進入財政年度25.

Yes. Thanks, David. I'd say on the undershipping question, I'd say that clearly, at the revenue levels that we're having today, our customers are shipping out more than we're shipping in. And I think that's really due to the fact that they've built up inventory over the last few years when there was fear that components would not be available. So I do believe that, that's the case.

是的。謝謝，大衛。我想說的是，關於發貨不足的問題，我要明確地說，按照我們今天的收入水平，我們的客戶發貨量比我們發貨量多。我認為這實際上是由於以下事實：過去幾年，當人們擔心組件無法供應時，他們就積累了庫存。所以我確實相信，事實就是如此。

That said, there are some North America carriers that I've talked about lowering their CapEx, but not significantly. So I'd say that the demand for bandwidth continues to be robust, and there's nothing that's going to slow that down.

也就是說，我已經談到了一些北美運營商降低資本支出的問題，但幅度不大。所以我想說，對帶寬的需求仍然強勁，沒有什麼會減緩這種需求。

I would say that, again, on the hyperscaler side, AI is really consuming a lot of the inventory that we had shipped over the last couple of years. And now we're starting to see signs that things could pick up before the end of the year in the hyperscalers. But in the normal carrier space, I'd say that's probably premature until calendar '24. Wajid, do you want to take the operating leverage question?

我想說，在超大規模方面，人工智能確實消耗了我們過去幾年發貨的大量庫存。現在我們開始看到超大規模企業的情況可能會在今年年底前好轉的跡象。但在正常的航母領域，我認為在 24 日曆年之前這可能還為時過早。 Wajid，您想回答運營槓桿問題嗎？

Yes, sure. So on operating leverage at the revenue levels we're currently seeing for the back half of this calendar year, you can appreciate that we're having a lot of underutilization charges within our internal factories due to the lower revenue levels and our desire to bring down our company inventory to a more normalized level.

是的，當然。因此，就我們目前看到的今年下半年的收入水平的運營槓桿而言，您可以意識到，由於收入水平較低以及我們希望將將我們公司的庫存降低到更加正常的水平。

As the back half of the fiscal year moves on, our expectation is that we'll really have 3 things working for us. One is, is that we're expecting to continue with our synergy plans that we've done that we've executed on quite well to date on NeoPhotonics. And the consolidation of the factories in the back half of this calendar year should start to show through the P&L in calendar '24.

隨著本財年後半段的到來，我們的預期是，我們將真正做到三件事。一是，我們期望繼續執行我們已經完成的協同計劃，迄今為止，我們在 NeoPhotonics 上執行得很好。今年下半年工廠的整合應該會開始通過 24 年的損益表體現出來。

The second thing is that our Datacom business is a chip business. And so we're expecting to see improved demand in that part of the business through calendar '24 and even actually in the back half of this calendar year as well. And so that should give us some uplift. And then like Alan talked about, once the telecom business becomes more normalized, the underutilization charges should reverse themselves, and we should see improvement. So those are kind of the 3 tailwinds from this point in time that can help us.

第二件事是我們的數據通信業務是芯片業務。因此，我們預計到 24 日曆年，甚至本日曆年後半段，這部分業務的需求都會有所改善。這應該會給我們帶來一些鼓舞。然後就像艾倫談到的那樣，一旦電信業務變得更加正常化，未充分利用的費用應該會自行逆轉，我們應該會看到改善。因此，從目前來看，這些是可以幫助我們的 3 個有利因素。

Your next question comes from the line of Alex Henderson from Needham.

您的下一個問題來自來自 Needham 的 Alex Henderson。

Great. wanted to start off with the comment on 3D sensing that the business would be flat into the September quarter. Historically, the June quarter is a seasonally softer quarter. The September and December quarters are seasonally stronger. Can you parse a little bit between, is that a late start because of some production issues? And therefore, we make up a little bit of the 3D sensing in the fourth quarter? Or is it truly a -- as steep a decline as the numbers would indicate? I think if it's flat sequentially, that's 60-some-odd percent decline year-over-year. So it's a pretty steep number.

偉大的。首先，我想從 3D 傳感業務的評論開始，該業務將在 9 月份季度持平。從歷史上看，六月季度是季節性疲軟的季度。九月和十二月季度季節性較強。您能否分析一下，這是因為一些生產問題而起步較晚嗎？因此，我們在第四季度彌補了一些 3D 傳感的不足？還是真的如數字所表明的那樣急劇下降？我認為，如果環比持平，那麼同比下降了 60% 左右。所以這是一個相當陡峭的數字。

Alex, this is Chris. Thanks for the question. Yes, I think a couple of things go into our outlook. I think as we've alluded to on prior calls that we've anticipated the impact of having an additional competitor in the mix. And so that and current demand environment were both factored into our guidance, and that's what's impacting the sequential and year-over-year comps you're asking about.

亞歷克斯，這是克里斯。謝謝你的提問。是的，我認為有幾件事影響了我們的前景。我認為，正如我們在之前的電話會議中提到的那樣，我們已經預料到了在混合中增加一個競爭對手的影響。因此，當前的需求環境都已納入我們的指導中，這就是影響您所詢問的連續和同比比較的因素。

Yes. So again, the question is, is there a shift between September and December? Historically, September has actually been a little stronger than the December quarter. Is this a late start to some extent, and therefore, a little bit more in the December quarter? Or should we be using that as the new level of a seasonally strong period?

是的。那麼，問題又來了，9月和12月之間是否有轉變？從歷史上看，9 月份的季度實際上比 12 月份的季度要強一些。從某種程度上來說，這是一個較晚的開始，因此，在 12 月份的季度中會出現更多的情況嗎？或者我們應該將其用作季節性強勁時期的新水平？

I would say it's a little early to guide that product line for that time frame, but I would think you should think about it being flattish between the 2 quarters.

我想說，在該時間範圍內指導該產品線還為時過早，但我認為您應該考慮到兩個季度之間的情況是持平的。

Great. And then second question I had for you is, looking at the broader context of the trajectory of demand, I think we started back in the September time frame saying that we were going into an inventory correction at least in Datacom. Telecom obviously started later than that. But you had initially thought that by the end of the June quarter and into the end of the summer, Datacom would start to recover. Then you pushed it out to the end of the fourth quarter calendar. At this point, it sounds like that's holding, but it may be a little bit steeper initial decline. Can you talk a little bit about what's going on relative to the trajectory from the expectations that you gave last quarter to the expectations you gave this quarter on that business and within Telecom as well? Has it steepened as a result of excess cutbacks in shipments at the service providers? What's the linearity of the demand structure there? Did it fall off towards the end of the quarter?

偉大的。我要問你的第二個問題是，從更廣泛的需求軌跡來看，我認為我們在 9 月份的時間範圍內就開始表示，我們至少將在 Datacom 進行庫存調整。電信顯然起步晚一些。但您最初認為，到六月季度末和夏末，Datacom 將開始復蘇。然後你把它推遲到第四季度日曆結束。在這一點上，聽起來似乎是穩定的，但最初的跌幅可能會更大一些。您能否談談從您上季度給出的預期到本季度對該業務以及電信內部的預期的相對軌跡發生了什麼？是否由於服務提供商的出貨量過度削減而變得更加陡峭？那裡的需求結構的線性度如何？到季度末時是否有所下降？

Well, let me take them one at a time. I'd say on the Datacom market, as you said, in September, we talked about it getting better in the summer, and we're seeing that in a lot. And I'd say that, in fact, we're seeing it so much that we probably ratcheted back our capacity more than we should have on Datacom. That's now in full force to accelerate the output of our Datacom chips. And so I think that's why we talked about Q1 being up from last quarter, and then we expect to see sequential growth in our Datacom chip business through the balance of this year as well as into calendar '24. So Datacom, I think, is on the right trajectory.

好吧，讓我一次拿一個。我想說的是，在數據通信市場上，正如您所說，在九月份，我們談到它在夏天會變得更好，而且我們在很多方面都看到了這一點。我想說的是，事實上，我們已經看到瞭如此多的情況，以至於我們在數據通信方面的容量縮減幅度可能超過了我們應有的程度。現在正在全力加速我們數據通信芯片的輸出。因此，我認為這就是為什麼我們談論第一季度較上季度有所增長，然後我們預計我們的數據通信芯片業務將在今年餘下時間以及進入 24 年後實現連續增長。因此，我認為 Datacom 正走在正確的軌道上。

On Telecom, I'd say that our customers are telling us that they want to bring down the inventory to normal levels. And I think the confidence that they have in our ability to produce what they need when they need it, and that the component suppliers, including semiconductors are going to be there when they need it gives them confidence that they can live with even less inventory than originally anticipated. So I'd say nothing really changed there other than inventory levels need to come down further. And that, therefore, we're shipping into our customers less than they're shipping out to the carriers, which in turn should take care of that problem and more normalize as we get into calendar '24.

在電信方面，我想說我們的客戶告訴我們他們希望將庫存降低到正常水平。我認為，他們對我們在需要時生產他們需要的產品的能力充滿信心，並且包括半導體在內的零部件供應商將在他們需要時出現，這讓他們相信他們可以在庫存更少的情況下生存。原本預計的。所以我想說，除了庫存水平需要進一步下降之外，沒有什麼真正改變。因此，我們向客戶發貨的量少於他們向承運商發貨的量，這反過來應該解決這個問題，並在我們進入日曆“24”時更加正常化。

Your next question comes from the line of Samik Chatterjee from JPMorgan.

您的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Samik Chatterjee。

I guess from -- first one, if I can just ask you to delve a bit more into the AI-related demand that you're seeing? How much of that are you seeing in terms of interest on the VCSEL side versus EML? And when you think about also the customer set there, how much of the engagement is hyperscalers versus other newer sort of companies coming into the ecosystem? Any thoughts in terms of what you expect that demand to look like in a couple of years would be useful. And I have a follow-up.

我想，第一個問題，我是否可以請您更深入地研究一下您所看到的與人工智能相關的需求？與 EML 相比，您對 VCSEL 方面的興趣有多大？當您考慮那裡的客戶群時，與進入生態系統的其他新型公司相比，超大規模企業的參與度有多少？任何關於您期望幾年後需求的想法都會很有用。我有一個後續行動。

Yes, let me address that, and I'll ask Chris to add on. I'd say you're right, it's beyond the hyperscalers. And so we've collaborated with a lot of the new customers for us that are leading the way in AI and figuring out how do we then customize a product laser, high-power laser or external laser source to satisfy the future needs of AI in a unique way. So we are doing customization of our products to meet the needs of those unique situations where the data bandwidths are just huge.

是的，讓我解決這個問題，我會請克里斯補充。我想說你是對的，它超出了超大規模的範圍。因此，我們與許多在人工智能領域處於領先地位的新客戶進行了合作，並弄清楚我們如何定制產品激光器、高功率激光器或外部激光源，以滿足人工智能的未來需求。一種獨特的方式。因此，我們正在對產品進行定制，以滿足數據帶寬巨大的獨特情況的需求。

And so I'd say that, that's really more of an impact in calendar '24, but that work has been going on now. And those products will come to market in the calendar '24 stage. I'd say that what we're seeing today is more EML-based-driven 800-gig transceivers that both use our CW high-power lasers for silicon photonics as well as 8 EMLs for each transceiver. Because those are the products that are available today that can use -- that can satisfy that bandwidth needs that the hyperscalers are going through. So that's what we're seeing.

所以我想說，這對 24 日曆年的影響確實更大，但這項工作現在一直在進行。這些產品將在“24 日曆年”階段上市。我想說的是，我們今天看到的是更多基於 EML 驅動的 800 Gig 收發器，它們都使用我們的 CW 高功率激光器進行矽光子學，並且每個收發器使用 8 個 EML。因為這些是當今可用的產品，可以滿足超大規模企業正在經歷的帶寬需求。這就是我們所看到的。

As far as VCSELs are concerned, we're going through the qualification work on those 100-gig VCSELs I talked about, and we see that really starting in a meaningful way to contribute to our revenue in calendar '24.

就 VCSEL 而言，我們正在對我談到的 100 台 VCSEL 進行資格認證工作，我們看到這確實以一種有意義的方式開始，為我們 24 年的收入做出貢獻。

Yes. And I'd also add that in addition to the VCSELs, which are just ramping, and EMLs, we're a market leader. And we also -- there are CW lasers that power certain silicon photonic solutions. So we've really focused, as we've commented on prior calls, of broadening our product portfolio in Datacom to be able to address different parts of the data center and different approaches to the same parts of the data center.

是的。我還想補充一點，除了 VCSEL 和 EML 之外，我們還是市場領導者。我們還有為某些矽光子解決方案提供動力的連續激光器。因此，正如我們在之前的電話會議中所評論的那樣，我們真正關注的是擴大我們在數據通信領域的產品組合，以便能夠解決數據中心的不同部分以及數據中心相同部分的不同方法。

And we do anticipate significant uptick in the market in Datacom in the coming 12 months relative to kind of the -- obviously, the down year that we have at being a chip supplier over the last year. And this is going to be a multiyear phenomenon that we definitely believe that -- you're talking tens of percent CAGRs for AI-related deployments over the next few years. So very exciting opportunity for us.

我們確實預計未來 12 個月數據通信市場將顯著上升，而去年我們作為芯片供應商的表現明顯下滑。我們堅信，這將是一個持續多年的現象——未來幾年人工智能相關部署的複合年增長率將達到百分之幾十。這對我們來說是非常令人興奮的機會。

Got it. Got it. And for my follow-up, just rotating back to the results and the guide for the fiscal first quarter. I think with 3D sensing in the past, you've obviously had a certain seasonality to the business through a year. Any thoughts of how you're thinking about seasonality this year? Should investors expect, sort of as you get to beyond 1Q, to see sort of sustained sequential growth in the business? Or given some of your comments about the sort of calendar year being inventory digestion impacted, it's really more of a step-up into the second half of the fiscal year?

知道了。知道了。對於我的後續行動，只需回到第一財季的結果和指南。我認為過去的 3D 傳感業務在一年中顯然具有一定的季節性。您對今年的季節性有何看法？當你進入第一季度之後，投資者是否應該期望看到業務持續連續增長？或者考慮到您對庫存消化影響的日曆年的一些評論，這實際上更像是進入本財年下半年的一個步驟？

And I think what I'm trying to get to is we all understand the earnings power of the business at this run rate is depressed because of the lower demand or the inventory digestion. But in terms of revenue increasing, your OpEx savings coming through, what do you see as the normalized run rate for the business where you want to exit the year?

我認為我想要表達的是，我們都明白，由於需求下降或庫存消化，在這種運行速度下，企業的盈利能力受到抑制。但就收入增加、您的運營支出節省而言，您認為您今年想要退出的業務的正常運行率是多少？

Well, normalized, it's hard to say. I'd say in the short term, the next couple of quarters, Telecom is going to be tough. And as we said, 3D sensing, you can think about being flat. Lasers is going to be down sequentially from Q1 -- in Q1, and you can think of that as being flat with fiber lasers going down in Q2, but being offset by our ultrafast lasers. So I think that then, the real mover between Q1 and Q2 is the Datacom demand, and that's really going to be gated by our ability to meet that -- supply that demand. And so I would say that there's some small uptick in Q2.

嗯，標準化了，很難說。我想說，從短期來看，接下來的幾個季度，電信行業將會很艱難。正如我們所說，3D 傳感，您可以考慮扁平化。激光器將從第一季度開始依次下降——在第一季度，您可以認為這與光纖激光器在第二季度的下降持平，但被我們的超快激光器所抵消。因此，我認為，第一季度和第二季度之間的真正推動者是數據通信需求，而這實際上將取決於我們滿足該需求的能力 - 供應該需求。所以我想說第二季度有一些小幅上升。

And then assuming that the inventory is taken care of over the next 5 months, then we should start seeing some pickup in the first half of calendar '24. And then normalized demand is -- happens when we're shipping into our customers what -- exactly what they're shipping out. And I think we're confident we can get back to the levels of revenue we've had in the past. And then with our model, the operating leverage is pretty immense. And we should see significant bounce back when we get up to that $400 million to $450 million, even $500 million in revenue. And I think that's doable in the not-too-distant future.

然後假設庫存在接下來的 5 個月內得到處理，那麼我們應該會在 24 年上半年開始看到一些回升。然後，當我們向客戶運送什麼時，就會發生正常化的需求——正是他們要運送的東西。我認為我們有信心能夠恢復到過去的收入水平。然後，通過我們的模型，運營槓桿非常巨大。當我們的收入達到 4 億至 4.5 億美元，甚至 5 億美元時，我們應該會看到顯著的反彈。我認為這在不久的將來是可行的。

Your next question comes from the line of George Notter from Jefferies.

您的下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 George Notter。

I wanted to ask about the gross margin performance in the quarter, down, gosh, roughly 400 basis points sequentially on a pretty similar revenue number. I guess I'm wondering if there's -- certainly, the lower 3D sensing is an element of that, I suppose. But I'm wondering if there's some excess and obsolete inventory charges there or anything else that drove that big sequential step down?

我想詢問本季度的毛利率表現，天哪，在收入數據非常相似的情況下，連續下降了大約 400 個基點。我想我想知道是否有——當然，我認為較低的 3D 傳感是其中的一個要素。但我想知道是否存在一些過剩和過時的庫存費用，或者其他什麼因素導致了連續大幅下降？

Yes. So you're right. So the 3D sensing number did come down into Q4. Excess and obsolescence was pretty normal from a run rate standpoint. It was really underutilization. So as -- we've been working through where we really want our inventory to be outside of some of the prebuilds that we're doing as part of our consolidation strategy. We had a pretty hefty impact within our fiscal Q4 with underutilization. That hit both our OpComm and our lasers business pretty significantly. And we're seeing that really flow through into the back half of the calendar year.

是的。所以你是對的。因此，3D 傳感數量確實下降到了第四季度。從運行率的角度來看，過剩和過時是很正常的。確實沒有得到充分利用。因此，我們一直在努力解決我們真正希望我們的庫存不在我們正在做的一些預建之外的問題，這是我們整合戰略的一部分。由於利用率不足，我們在第四財季產生了相當大的影響。這對我們的 OpComm 和激光器業務都造成了相當大的打擊。我們看到這種情況確實會持續到今年下半年。

Got it. So is it fair to say that a good portion of the product that you shipped in the June quarter was then manufactured in prior quarters? Is that the way to read that?

知道了。那麼，可以公平地說，你們在六月季度發貨的產品中很大一部分是在前幾個季度生產的嗎？這是閱讀的方式嗎？

Yes, that's fair. Yes, that's fair. That's right.

是的，這很公平。是的，這很公平。這是正確的。

Okay. And then is there some strategy here to kind of, I don't know, I guess, produce a softer gross margin in the June quarter? Take that underutilization hit all at once then, and then you can kind of clean that effect up going into the September quarter? Or is it -- is there some other strategy in terms of how you run your utilization?

好的。那麼是否有某種策略可以（我不知道，我猜）在六月季度產生較軟的毛利率？那麼，一下子解決利用率不足的問題，然後您可以在進入九月季度時消除這種影響嗎？或者是——在如何運行利用率方面還有其他策略嗎？

Yes. I mean, really, the only way to do it is to produce more, and so -- or consolidate facilities. So we are consolidating facilities, and we'll start to see the benefit of that probably in the January time frame because we'll be out of the facilities in the November, December time frame this year. So we'll start to see the impact of that in our fiscal Q3. So that will be pretty sizable. And then it's really production coming back up at all of our facilities to a more normalized level. So that's -- those are really kind of the only 2 ways that you can improve that.

是的。我的意思是，實際上，唯一的方法就是生產更多，或者整合設施。因此，我們正在整合設施，我們可能會在一月份的時間範圍內開始看到這樣做的好處，因為我們將在今年 11 月、12 月的時間範圍內停止使用這些設施。因此，我們將在第三財季開始看到這一影響。所以這將是相當大的。然後我們所有工廠的生產實際上都恢復到了更加正常化的水平。所以，這確實是唯一可以改進的兩種方法。

Yes. Just to add to that, though, I'd say that the June quarter Datacom was below on Datacom, and those chips that are produced in our fabs absorb a lot. And as that ramps back up, we should see a better absorption and utilization of the fabs that we have in Japan, making Datacom chips.

是的。不過，補充一點，我想說的是，6 月份季度的 Datacom 低於 Datacom，而我們晶圓廠生產的那些芯片吸收了很多。隨著這種情況的回升，我們應該會看到我們在日本擁有的生產數據通信芯片的工廠得到更好的吸收和利用。

Yes. That's fair.

是的。這還算公平。

Got it. Okay. And is that -- I was going to say...

知道了。好的。那是——我想說的是……

Please, go ahead.

請繼續。

Is that inventory -- let me follow on here. Is that inventory that you built up from a manufacturing perspective in the March quarter, is that inventory then consumed heading into the September period?

那是庫存嗎——讓我繼續往下看。您在 3 月份季度從製造角度建立的庫存是否是在 9 月份期間消耗的？

Well, no, not all of it because if you take a look at our inventory turns, it doesn't turn that fast. So yes, some of it will flow through into -- that already flowed through our fiscal Q4, and then some of it will flow through our Q1. A lot of it is very product level dependent. So like Alan said, in Sagamihara where our Datacom chips are produced, that inventory is turning very fast. So as the finished goods are coming out, it's being shipped. But at our Rose Orchard facility, where we have internal wafer fabrication, that's moving a little bit more slowly and as well as what we've got in Thailand, that's built up for lasers as well. So it is a little bit dependent. And because BOM costs are lower on Datacom chips, the impact at a consolidated level doesn't show up as well as it does when you take a look at by BU inventory turns.

嗯，不，不是全部，因為如果你看一下我們的庫存周轉率，就會發現它的周轉速度並沒有那麼快。所以，是的，其中一些將流入已經流入我們第四財季的資金，然後其中一些將流入我們第一季度的資金。其中很多都非常依賴於產品級別。正如艾倫所說，在生產我們的數據通信芯片的相模原市，庫存周轉速度非常快。因此，當成品出來時，它就會被裝運。但在我們的玫瑰果園工廠，我們有內部晶圓製造，進展有點慢，而且我們在泰國的工廠也是為激光器而建的。所以它有點依賴。由於數據通信芯片的 BOM 成本較低，因此綜合層面的影響並不像按 BU 庫存周轉率查看時那樣明顯。

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Genovese from Rosenblatt.

您的下一個問題來自羅森布拉特的邁克爾·吉諾維斯 (Michael Genovese)。

I want to dig in on this guidance for Telecom and Datacom to be up for the year, I guess, my -- in fiscal '24. My first question is, is that more of a Datacom comment that Datacom will be way up? Or are we seeing that Telecom will also be up as well year-over-year?

我想深入研究今年的電信和數據通信指南，我想是在 24 財年。我的第一個問題是，Datacom 的評論更多的是 Datacom 將會上漲嗎？或者我們是否看到電信也會同比增長？

Yes, Michael, I think what we said was that calendar '24 would be up from calendar '23 given that we believe the next 2 quarters of Telecom shipments are going to be depressed given the inventory reductions that are happening at our customers and at the end customers. So not fiscal year-over-year, I'd say calendar year, we're pretty confident that Telecom will be up in calendar '24 from calendar '23.

是的，邁克爾，我認為我們所說的是日曆“24”將比日曆“23”提前，因為我們相信未來兩個季度的電信出貨量將受到抑制，因為我們的客戶和公司正在減少庫存。最終客戶。因此，不是財年同比，我想說的是歷年，我們非常有信心電信將在 24 日曆年比 23 日曆年有所上升。

That said, again, I'd say Datacom is going to grow sequentially each quarter between now and the end of calendar '24.

話雖如此，我還是想說，從現在到 24 日曆年底，數據通信將按季度順序增長。

Okay. That makes sense. That's a calendar comment. And I guess my other question is, when I look at the Datacom 800G and above AI opportunity, you guys are in EMLs and it looks like they're trying to prioritizing VCSELs as well, I guess my question is, are there any other parts of the Datacom market now with this improvement? I'm not...

好的。這就說得通了。這是日曆評論。我想我的另一個問題是，當我看到Datacom 800G 及以上的AI 機會時，你們都在EML 中，看起來他們也在嘗試優先考慮VCSEL，我想我的問題是，還有其他部分嗎？數據通信市場現在有了這樣的改進嗎？我不是...

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

Sorry, Michael, we couldn't hear your last question. I think the question though was around are there any other parts other than EMLs and VCSELs that are showing signs of demand growth? Is that your question? Or have we lost you?

抱歉，邁克爾，我們聽不到你的最後一個問題。我認為問題在於，除了 EML 和 VCSEL 之外，是否還有其他部件顯示出需求增長的跡象？這是你的問題嗎？還是我們失去了你？

Yes. No, I'm sorry, here. I hope this isn't bad.

是的。不，對不起，在這裡。我希望這還不錯。

Mr. Genovese has disconnected. Is it okay to proceed to the next question?

吉諾維斯先生已斷開連接。可以繼續下一個問題嗎？

Yes. Maybe we'll try to answer the question if we understood it right, and we can talk about different kinds of lasers, CW lasers and such, Chris?

是的。如果我們理解正確的話，也許我們會嘗試回答這個問題，我們可以討論不同類型的激光器，連續波激光器等，克里斯？

Yes, certainly, our focus is on serving a hyperscale cloud market, primarily to our transceiver customers that we supply to also certainly supply into the enterprise end markets. So again, supplying EMLs as the largest product line, and that's primarily playing now into the transition to 800 gig. And we will also have 200-gig per lane EMLs coming up in calendar '24 ramping, and that's for either a next generation of 800-gig transceivers and then the eventual transition to 1.6 terabits per second. We highlighted the VCSELs ramping so that we have a broader product portfolio as well as CW lasers to intersect the 800-gig and 1.6-terabit silicon-photonic-based approaches.

是的，當然，我們的重點是服務超大規模雲市場，主要是我們提供的收發器客戶，當然也供應給企業終端市場。再說一次，供應 EML 作為最大的產品線，現在主要在向 800 場的過渡中發揮作用。我們還將在 24 年日曆中推出每通道 200 GB 的 EML，這適用於下一代 800 GB 收發器，然後最終過渡到每秒 1.6 Tb。我們強調了 VCSEL 的不斷發展，以便我們擁有更廣泛的產品組合以及 CW 激光器，以交叉 800 g 和 1.6 太比特矽光子方法。

Yes. Just the only other thing is we're providing a series of different types of lasers to address the antenna band as well.

是的。唯一的另一件事是我們還提供一系列不同類型的激光器來解決天線頻段的問題。

Your next question comes from the line of Ananda Baruah from Loop Capital.

您的下一個問題來自 Loop Capital 的 Ananda Baruah。

Yes, just a couple if I could as well. I mean, I guess, just sticking with Datacom chips and lasers. Is it -- I guess, I've been trying to frame for myself how meaningful this could become as a part of your business. And I think I'd just sort of clarify this. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that on the company's sort of prior, prior rev, let's say, [believes], 12 months ago before things really started -- before the hyperscales really started to work down their inventory, the run rates at which you were thinking could occur back then, which I think got to the kind of [2 40, 2 50, 2 60] level annually, would sort of suggest if you could still achieve those, if you have more of a tailwind on current run rates, you could begin to see sort of 15%, 16% of the company, once achieved, the beyond -- and I think those are primary EMLs.

是的，如果可以的話，就幾個。我的意思是，我想，只是堅持使用數據通信芯片和激光器。是嗎？我想，我一直在努力為自己構想這作為您業務的一部分將變得多麼有意義。我想我只是想澄清一下這一點。如我錯了請糾正我。我相信，根據公司之前的預期，比方說，[相信]，在事情真正開始之前的 12 個月前——在超大規模真正開始減少庫存之前，你所認為的運行率可能會發生當時，我認為每年都會達到[2 40, 2 50, 2 60] 的水平，這會建議你是否仍然可以實現這些目標，如果你對當前的運行率有更多的順風，你可以開始看到公司的15%、 16% 一旦實現，就會超越——我認為這些是主要的EML。

Now you have what's going on gen AI related, you're doing some new VCSEL work. And I know a bunch of [cities] now at OFC but the CW laser were talking about InfiniBand laser work as well. Could we be in a situation in 8 quarters where like 20% of the company is gen AI Datacom chip laser related? And I just have a super quick follow-up after that. Let me get your thoughts there.

現在你已經了解了與人工智能相關的事情，你正在做一些新的 VCSEL 工作。我現在知道 OFC 的很多[城市]，但 CW 激光器也在談論 InfiniBand 激光器工作。我們是否會在 8 個季度內遇到這樣的情況：公司大約 20% 的股份與 gen AI Datacom 芯片激光器相關？之後我會進行非常快速的跟進。讓我聽聽你的想法。

Yes. Good question. I think it depends on how fast the other parts of our business grows. But I think your numbers are not too far off. I'd say that we have gone down significantly over the last year from Datacom revenue standpoint, both from the standpoint of unit shipments or way down, and average prices have gone down in this past year. So we're in the midst of growing that.

是的。好問題。我認為這取決於我們業務其他部分的增長速度。但我認為你的數字並不算太遠。我想說，從數據通信收入的角度來看，去年我們的收入大幅下降，無論是從單位出貨量還是下降的角度來看，而且去年的平均價格也有所下降。所以我們正在發展這一點。

I'd say that certainly within the next 8 quarters, could we get back to the kind of [2 40 to 2 60] annually? Yes, absolutely. And I think we're putting capacity in place to do that. We have capacity. As you remember, 3 years ago, we've been continuing to add capacity. We're in the midst of going to larger wafers to address the demand we've seen in the long term. So that certainly could be a significant growth driver from where we are today.

我想說，在接下來的 8 個季度內，我們肯定能回到每年 [2 40 到 2 60] 的水平嗎？是的，一點沒錯。我認為我們正在投入足夠的能力來做到這一點。我們有能力。如您所知，3 年前，我們一直在持續增加容量。我們正在採用更大的晶圓來滿足我們的長期需求。因此，這肯定會成為我們今天的重要增長動力。

Yes, Alan, that's really helpful. And I guess the quick follow-up is, like longer term, what's your view on sort of NeoPhotonics VR technologies' role in data center for AI related at all? And that's it for me.

是的，艾倫，這真的很有幫助。我想快速的後續行動是，從長遠來看，您對 NeoPhotonics VR 技術在人工智能相關數據中心中的作用有何看法？對我來說就是這樣。

Yes. We're very, very happy with the acquisition of NeoPhotonics and the technology and the team that came along with that. I'd say that there was a buildup of inventory of ZR and ZR modules at certain hyperscalers. I think that, that is being consumed, and we're starting to see signs of life, frankly, of hyperscalers needing more ZR modules. We're also providing a lot of the components to go into the world's ZR market. And so from that perspective, we're happy with the whole AI-driven data center demand. But also data center to data center, there's a lot of bandwidth going between them. So I don't know, Chris, any other thoughts?

是的。我們對 NeoPhotonics 的收購以及隨之而來的技術和團隊感到非常非常高興。我想說的是，某些超大規模企業的 ZR 和 ZR 模塊庫存有所增加。我認為，這正在被消耗，坦率地說，我們開始看到超大規模企業需要更多 ZR 模塊的跡象。我們還提供大量進入世界 ZR 市場的組件。因此從這個角度來看，我們對整個人工智能驅動的數據中心需求感到滿意。而且數據中心與數據中心之間也存在大量帶寬。所以我不知道，克里斯，還有其他想法嗎？

Yes. I mean I think that one of the thesis of the acquisition with regard to ZR was that we would provide a sort of stronger company, if you will, to give customers confidence. And that certainly is bearing out. Unfortunately, as Alan highlighted, that the acquisition closed at about the point where they also realized they had a lot of inventory. So now that inventory is beginning to clear at hyperscalers, we do expect ZR to be one of the products that recovers earlier in our Telecom portfolio.

是的。我的意思是，我認為收購 ZR 的目的之一是，如果你願意的話，我們將提供一家更強大的公司，以給客戶帶來信心。這確實正在得到證實。不幸的是，正如艾倫強調的那樣，收購結束時他們也意識到自己有大量庫存。因此，現在超大規模企業的庫存開始清理，我們確實預計 ZR 將成為我們電信產品組合中較早恢復的產品之一。

And then with the level of vertical integration we have, customers are very excited about us as a supplier because they view us as being able to both evolve, obviously, from a cost and volume standpoint given our vertical integration, but also lead the transition to 800-gig and next-generation solutions that follow on beyond the current 400-gig products.

然後，隨著我們擁有的垂直整合水平，客戶對我們作為供應商感到非常興奮，因為他們認為我們不僅能夠從成本和數量的角度發展，顯然，考慮到我們的垂直整合，而且還能引領向800 Gig 和下一代解決方案超越當前400 Gig 產品。

Your next question comes from the line of Tom O'Malley from Barclays.

你的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的湯姆·奧馬利。

I just wanted to square just a couple of comments you've made. So I think that in response to Ananda's question, you talked about getting back to a greater than $200 million run rate in the Datacom business. But then on a question about Q2 in the fiscal year in December, you talked about just a moderate sequential increase just given the fact that you don't have the capacity and you said, "Hey, maybe in retrospect, we would have not taken down capacity as much."

我只是想糾正你提出的一些評論。因此，我認為在回答阿南達的問題時，您談到了數據通信業務恢復到超過 2 億美元的運行率。但是，在關於 12 月份財年第二季度的問題上，您談到了適度的連續增長，因為您沒有能力，並且您說，“嘿，也許回想起來，我們不會採取降低容量。”

So just to kind of put those 2 in perspective, if you look at this coming fiscal year, are you guys going to be able to get back to the levels that you saw in fiscal year '23? I think you started the year around $50 million. Is that something you'll be able to get to? Or is capacity going to hold you back really until the back half of calendar year '24, which would be your fiscal year '25?

因此，為了正確看待這兩個問題，如果您看看即將到來的財年，你們是否能夠回到第 23 財年的水平？我想你今年年初的收入約為 5000 萬美元。這是你能做到的嗎？或者產能是否真的會阻礙您直到 24 日曆年下半年（即您的 25 財年）？

Yes. I would say, it's certainly not a lack of demand that would get us there. So I'd say that in calendar '24, there's certainly enough demand. The question is, can we get the capacity back up, given that ASPs are down? So we have to actually produce a whole lot more chips to get to that $50 million run rate.

是的。我想說，我們的成功肯定不是因為缺乏需求。所以我想說，在 24 日曆年，肯定有足夠的需求。問題是，鑑於平均售價下降，我們能否恢復容量？因此，我們實際上必須生產更多的芯片才能達到 5000 萬美元的運行率。

But that said, the gross margin on those chips are still very, very solid. So we're anxiously driving the team to grow the output. And you're right, we took down capacity more than we should have. But at the time, it was the right thing to try to drive the underutilization. But I'd say that the cycle time on Datacom chips is such that starting wafers today, it doesn't really impact the next 4 months. So it is a long cycle time. We're working on that as well. And that's why we're trying to dampen the expectations of rapid growth in the December quarter for Datacom, but we are expecting to see an uptick in Datacom in the December quarter.

但話雖如此，這些芯片的毛利率仍然非常非常穩定。因此，我們正在焦急地推動團隊提高產量。你是對的，我們削減的產能超出了我們應有的水平。但在當時，嘗試降低利用率是正確的做法。但我想說的是，數據通信芯片的周期時間如此之大，以至於今天開始生產晶圓，它並不會真正影響接下來的 4 個月。所以這是一個很長的周期。我們也在努力解決這個問題。這就是為什麼我們試圖降低數據通信在 12 月份季度快速增長的預期，但我們預計數據通信在 12 月份季度會出現增長。

Got you. That's helpful. And then just on the technology side, and this may be just a broader question, but I just wanted to hear your take here, is if you look at the early days of AI here, there's obviously some drivers that are pointing more towards EML. But clearly, there's a lot of drivers that are porting more towards VCSEL. And you guys are looking to ramp that product.

明白你了。這很有幫助。然後就技術方面而言，這可能只是一個更廣泛的問題，但我只是想听聽您的看法，如果您看看人工智能的早期階段，顯然有一些驅動因素更傾向於 EML。但顯然，有很多驅動程序正在向 VCSEL 進行更多移植。你們正在尋求提升該產品。

I guess the question is, if you look at the market for lasers today in AI, how would you split out the percentage of lasers that are being used between VCSEL, CW and EML? And do you think that just given that maybe there's some more VCSELs early on, that you're missing out on some of that opportunity? Or if it's the other way around, just any color would be helpful there.

我想問題是，如果你看看當今人工智能領域的激光器市場，你會如何劃分 VCSEL、CW 和 EML 之間使用的激光器的百分比？您是否認為，鑑於早期可能會有更多 VCSEL，您是否會錯過一些機會？或者如果是相反的話，任何顏色都會有幫助。

Yes, I would say from the end-market opportunity and unit quantities, the VCSEL arrays and basically short reach and long reach, that's really what we're talking about, are not that different from a volume standpoint. So therefore, that's -- and being a leader in the EML, so that indicates why that VCSEL is such a good opportunity for us to grow in addition to just market growth to grow share.

是的，我想說，從終端市場機會和單位數量來看，VCSEL 陣列以及基本上的短距離和長距離，這確實是我們正在討論的內容，從數量的角度來看並沒有太大不同。因此，作為 EML 的領導者，這表明了為什麼 VCSEL 對於我們來說是一個很好的增長機會，除了市場增長以增加份額之外。

In terms of CW -- CW and EML sort of compete with each other a little bit in that certain silicon photonic architectures are able to do the needed distance or reach that EMLs at the lower end do. So there is a little bit of cannibalization or zero sum between those two, but that's why we introduced and have both sets of products. Now that said, EMLs will lead the transition to the 200 gig per lane. And so we expect EMLs to really be the workhorse of the longer-reach AI links.

就 CW 而言，CW 和 EML 有點相互競爭，因為某些矽光子架構能夠達到所需的距離或達到低端 EML 所能達到的距離。因此，這兩者之間存在一點點蠶食或零和，但這就是我們推出並擁有兩套產品的原因。話雖如此，EML 將引領向每通道 200 場演出的過渡。因此，我們期望 EML 真正成為長距離人工智能鏈路的主力。

And just to note that while these units are about the same, the VCSEL cost that are priced are significantly lower than the EMLs.

需要注意的是，雖然這些裝置大致相同，但 VCSEL 的定價成本明顯低於 EML。

Yes. So the market is much larger for the longer-reach EMLs.

是的。因此，對於覆蓋範圍更長的 EML 來說，市場要大得多。

Your next question comes from the line of Vivek Arya from BFA Securities.

您的下一個問題來自 BFA 證券的 Vivek Arya。

I was hoping you could help us quantify what percentage of your Q4 sales were related to AI? Were they all in Lasers or Telecom, Datacom segment? Just where do the AI-related sales show up? And how large were they in the quarter?

我希望您能幫助我們量化您的第四季度銷售額與人工智能相關的百分比是多少？它們都屬於激光領域還是電信、數據通信領域？與人工智能相關的銷售額到底體現在哪裡？該季度的規模有多大？

Yes, I think the primary products going to AI would obviously be our Datacom business. We don't break that out, but it's sub 10% of company revenue. That said, we don't know when we ship an EML to a customer, whether that's going into an enterprise customer or a cloud AI customer at this point. But what we do expect, and as Alan has highlighted, that the growth we are seeing going forward is primarily AI-driven.

是的，我認為人工智能的主要產品顯然是我們的數據通信業務。我們沒有透露這一數字，但它占公司收入的比例不到 10%。也就是說，我們不知道何時將 EML 發送給客戶，無論此時是發送給企業客戶還是雲 AI 客戶。但我們確實期望，正如艾倫所強調的那樣，我們看到的未來增長主要是人工智能驅動的。

So sub 10% of your Datacom segment is AI or EML related? I just wanted to...

那麼，您的數據通信細分市場中有不到 10% 與 AI 或 EML 相關？我只是想...

No. No, I would say a very high percentage of our Datacom revenue is EML-related. It's just that the Datacom business is a smaller percentage of the overall company revenue given it's a chip-based business. So lower ASP, high margin but lower ASP.

不，不，我想說我們的數據通信收入中有很大一部分與 EML 相關。只是由於數據通信業務是基於芯片的業務，因此它在公司整體收入中所佔的比例較小。因此，平均售價較低，利潤率較高，但平均售價較低。

All right. And for my follow-up, I'm just trying to think about the path back to growth, right? It seems for the overall company, it seems like Q2 will probably -- could be in the same range as Q1 and Q3 has in the past tended to have seasonal headwinds, but I don't know whether the mix now is different. So is it really fair to think that Q4 is the earliest we should be thinking about meaningful sequential growth? Or do you think seasonality and mix could play out differently this year?

好的。對於我的後續行動，我只是想思考恢復增長的道路，對嗎？對於整個公司來說，第二季度可能會與第一季度和第三季度在過去往往面臨季節性逆風的範圍內相同，但我不知道現在的情況是否有所不同。那麼，認為第四季度是我們最早應該考慮有意義的環比增長真的公平嗎？或者您認為今年的季節性和組合會有所不同嗎？

Yes, I would say seasonality probably doesn't play as much as it has in the past. And when you look at the March quarter, just given how much less we're shipping into our customers today than they're shipping out. So I think it all comes down to their inventory levels. And when does that equalization happen, we think that it's going to take until at least December. But that said, we're going to see some strength in demand for new products. And I talked about the 130-gigabaud, 200-gigabaud type products as well as some new products we have in ROADMs and other, that should drive demand growth in Q1, regardless of inventory situation because they're new products, and they don't exist in the inventories today. So I'd say it just depends.

是的，我想說季節性可能不像過去那麼重要。當你看看三月份的季度時，就知道我們今天向客戶發貨的貨物比他們發貨的少了多少。所以我認為這一切都取決於他們的庫存水平。我們認為這種均衡何時發生，至少要到 12 月。但話雖如此，我們將看到對新產品的需求有所增強。我談到了 130 吉波特、200 吉波特型產品以及我們在 ROADM 等領域的一些新產品，無論庫存情況如何，它們都應該推動第一季度的需求增長，因為它們是新產品，而且它們不今天的庫存中不存在。所以我想說這要看情況。

Our last question will come from the line of Jeff Koche from Raymond James.

我們的最後一個問題將來自雷蒙德·詹姆斯 (Raymond James) 的傑夫·科切 (Jeff Koche)。

Jeff with Raymond James in for Simon. So one of your big competitors put out a forecast for the Datacom transceiver market basically calling for roughly 5 billion increase from 2023 through 2028. I just want to know what your thoughts on that forecast are. Do you think that's reasonable? And I guess your strategy and your milestones that you're targeting for that business would be helpful.

傑夫和雷蒙德·詹姆斯代替西蒙。因此，你們的一位主要競爭對手對數據通信收發器市場做出了預測，基本上要求從 2023 年到 2028 年增長約 50 億美元。我只想知道你們對此預測有何看法。你覺得合理嗎？我想您為該業務制定的戰略和里程碑將會有所幫助。

Sure. I think that's not -- I'm not familiar with the exact numbers you referenced, but it is not inconsistent with our assumptions around growth in the overall Datacom market, particularly driven by AI.

當然。我認為這不是——我不熟悉您引用的確切數字，但這與我們對整個數據通信市場增長的假設並不矛盾，特別是在人工智能的推動下。

Simon, do you have a follow-up? Go ahead.

西蒙，你有後續行動嗎？前進。

Yes, yes. I'm just wondering -- so if I got this right that the -- did you say that NeoPhotonics was up or down sequentially in the quarter? And is it safe to say that the majority of the downtick in September and December is going to be in the legacy Telecom business? And that Neo is going to do -- is more, I guess, that inventory digestion with the ZR is more played out? Is that fair to say?

是的是的。我只是想知道——如果我沒說錯的話——你說 NeoPhotonics 在本季度是連續上漲還是下跌？可以肯定地說，9 月和 12 月的大部分下滑將來自傳統電信業務嗎？ Neo 要做的事情是——我想，ZR 的庫存消化會更加徹底嗎？這麼說公平嗎？

Jeff, the delineation between Neo products and legacy products after a year is pretty much gone. So we're still seeing strength, as we talked about in narrow line with tunable lasers. I think I said we're seeing growth again in expectations for ZRs as we move forward. But I'd say that Neo products in the June quarter were down from previous, and we expect, as the inventory of whether it's the narrow line with tunable lasers or other products that we got through the acquisition, as those burn down, we're going to see growth across the board. So I wouldn't say it's anything specific to legacy versus Neo products, it's an inventory issue at our customers that we're trying to take care of.

Jeff，一年後 Neo 產品和傳統產品之間的界限幾乎消失了。所以我們仍然看到了力量，正如我們在窄線中談論可調諧激光器一樣。我想我說過，隨著我們的前進，我們對 ZR 的期望再次增長。但我想說的是，六月季度的Neo 產品較之前有所下降，我們預計，隨著可調諧激光器的窄線產品或我們通過收購獲得的其他產品的庫存，隨著這些產品的燒毀，我們預計我們將看到全面的增長。因此，我不會說這是舊產品與新產品之間的任何特定問題，這是我們正在努力解決的客戶的庫存問題。

Lara, I think we'll turn the call back over to Alan for some closing remarks.

拉拉（Lara），我想我們會把電話轉回給艾倫（Alan）做一些結束語。

Thanks, Kathy. Thank you, everyone. I'd like to leave everyone with a few thoughts as we wrap up the call. As I said before, mid- to long-term fundamentals are solid for our business as we serve the exponential growth in network bandwidth in the artificial intelligence, machine learning, mobile carrier and cloud computing markets. New industrial applications are emerging for our imaging and sensing products, and our commercial lasers are expanding into high-growth applications beyond our traditional markets. We are committed to investing deeply in innovation to deliver on our customers' needs today and in the future.

謝謝，凱西。謝謝大家。在我們結束通話時，我想留給大家一些想法。正如我之前所說，我們的業務中長期基本面是穩固的，因為我們服務於人工智能、機器學習、移動運營商和雲計算市場的網絡帶寬的指數級增長。我們的成像和傳感產品正在出現新的工業應用，我們的商用激光器正在擴展到傳統市場之外的高增長應用。我們致力於大力投資創新，以滿足客戶當前和未來的需求。

With that, I would like to thank everyone for attending, and we look forward to talking with you again at the investor conferences and upcoming meetings in the coming weeks. Thank you all for attending.

在此，我要感謝大家的出席，我們期待在未來幾週的投資者會議和即將舉行的會議上再次與您交談。感謝大家的出席。

Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines. Have a lovely day.

謝謝你，先生。女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與，並請您斷開線路。祝你愉快。