Lion Electric Co (LEV) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Lion Electric's Third Quarter 2023 Results Conference Call.

早安，女士們，先生們。歡迎參加雄獅電氣 2023 年第三季業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

（操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Isabelle Adjahi, Vice President, Investor Relations and Sustainable Development. Please go ahead, Ms. Adjahi.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係和永續發展副總裁 Isabelle Adjahi。請繼續，阿賈希女士。

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Lion's Third Quarter 2023 Results Conference Call. (foreign language) Today, I am here with Marc Bedard, our CEO, Founder; Nicolas Brunet, our President; and Richard Coulombe, our Chief Financial Officer.

大家，早安。歡迎參加 Lion 2023 年第三季業績電話會議。 （外語）今天，我和我們的執行長兼創辦人 Marc Bedard 在一起；尼古拉斯·布魯內特，我們的總統；和我們的財務長理查德·庫隆布。

Please note that our discussion may include estimates and other forward-looking information and that our actual results could differ materially from those implied in any such statements. We invite you to review the cautionary language in this morning's press release and in our MD&A, which contains important information regarding various factors, assumptions and risks that could impact our actual results.

請注意，我們的討論可能包括估計和其他前瞻性訊息，我們的實際結果可能與任何此類聲明中暗示的結果有重大差異。我們邀請您查看今天早上的新聞稿和 MD&A 中的警示性語言，其中包含有關可能影響我們實際結果的各種因素、假設和風險的重要資訊。

With that, let me turn it over to Marc to begin. Marc?

接下來，讓我把它交給馬克開始。馬克？

Thank you, Isabelle. Good morning, everyone. Today, we are pleased to report that in Q3, we achieved record deliveries, revenues and gross margins, clearly showing that our focus remains our goal to profitability. Compared to Q3 2022, we basically doubled our revenues with approximately the same SG&A expenses, and our gross margin went from negative 9% to a positive gross margin of over 6%, mostly driven by higher volume, favorable average selling price and continued cost control.

謝謝你，伊莎貝爾。大家，早安。今天，我們很高興地報告，在第三季度，我們實現了創紀錄的交付量、收入和毛利率，清楚地表明我們的重點仍然是獲利目標。與2022 年第三季相比，我們的營收基本上翻了一番，SG&A 費用大致相同，毛利率從負9% 變為正毛利率超過6%，這主要是由於銷量增加、平均售價有利和持續的成本控制。

We had a significant EBITDA improvement as well, increasing from negative $15.1 million in Q3 2022 to negative $3.9 million in Q3 of this year. Also, we now have more than 1,600 vehicles on the road, with more than 19 million miles driven or 30 million kilometers, a significant achievement, demonstrating our leadership position in the EV space.

我們的 EBITDA 也有了顯著改善，從 2022 年第三季的負 1,510 萬美元增加到今年第三季的負 390 萬美元。此外，我們現在有超過 1,600 輛汽車在路上行駛，行駛里程超過 1,900 萬英里或 3,000 萬公里，這是一項重大成就，展示了我們在電動車領域的領導地位。

It is also my pleasure to acknowledge recent leadership appointments. Nicolas, who got deeply acquainted with Lion's products, customers and operations over the past 4 years was named President and works with me on the elaboration and execution of all strategic aspects of the business. His main focus being our commercial operations and the acceleration of sales across the United States and Canada.

我也很高興對最近的領導任命表示認可。 Nicolas 在過去 4 年裡對 Lion 的產品、客戶和營運有了深入的了解，被任命為總裁，並與我一起制定和執行業務的所有策略方面。他的主要關注點是我們的商業營運以及加速美國和加拿大的銷售。

Richard, who has been instrumental in driving our growth projects with a lot of success for the last 2 years, was appointed Chief Financial Officer. Richard will leverage his 25 years in executive finance roles to support our objectives of profitability and positive free cash flow.

理查德被任命為首席財務官，他在過去兩年中為推動我們的成長項目取得了巨大成功發揮了重要作用。 Richard 將利用他 25 年擔任高階主管財務職務的經驗來支持我們實現獲利和正自由現金流的目標。

I will now provide an update on several key decisions we have made to focus on our profitability objectives and optimize capital usage. On the bus side, we will postpone the commercial production of the Lion8 school bus to prioritize the commercial production of our high-demand products and the timely integration of our Lion Batteries on our existing platforms.

我現在將提供我們為專注於獲利目標和優化資本使用而做出的幾項關鍵決策的最新情況。在客車方面，我們將推遲Lion8校車的商業化生產，優先考慮高需求產品的商業化生產以及及時將Lion電池整合到我們現有的平台上。

On the truck side, the litigation with Nikola Motors and their decision not to supply us with the Romeo Power batteries will result in us using our own Lion batteries on our Lion8 tractor truck, thus postponing its market entry to mid-2024. And finally, we have great news with respect to both the Lion5 truck and the LionD school bus as we started commercial production for both of these vehicles and will soon begin customer deliveries.

在卡車方面，與 Nikola Motors 的訴訟以及他們決定不向我們提供 Romeo Power 電池將導致我們在 Lion8 牽引卡車上使用我們自己的 Lion 電池，從而將其市場進入推遲到 2024 年中期。最後，我們有關於 Lion5 卡車和 LionD 校車的好消息，我們已開始對這兩款車輛進行商業化生產，並將很快開始向客戶交付。

Now turning to our manufacturing plants and operations. In Joliet, we now have the infrastructure in place to reach a production capacity of 2,500 school buses per year. During Q3, we continued to ramp up the production of LionC buses. And as I just mentioned, we have also started the commercial production of LionD units.

現在轉向我們的製造工廠和營運。在喬利埃特，我們現在的基礎設施已到位，可實現每年 2,500 輛校車的生產能力。第三季度，我們持續提高 LionC 客車的產量。正如我剛才提到的，我們也開始了LionD裝置的商業化生產。

At our battery plant, we continue to ramp up production of Lion battery packs during the quarter. The current production line allows us to reach production capacity of 1.7-gigawatt hour per year and up to power over 5,000 of our vehicles. The certification process for the Lion packs is progressing well, and we expect final certification to occur before the end of the year.

在我們的電池工廠，我們在本季繼續提高 Lion 電池組的產量。目前的生產線使我們能夠達到每年 1.7 吉瓦時的生產能力，為我們的 5,000 多輛汽車提供動力。 Lion packs 的認證過程進展順利，我們預計最終認證將在今年年底前完成。

With respect to our innovation center. The building is currently being used as a testing and certification center for our vehicles and batteries, as a predelivery inspection site and as a warehouse for inventory. This allows us to leverage space available and optimize operational efficiency. Additionally, we will soon start using the innovation center as a showroom and delivery center for our customers to see and test our vehicles on our test track and take delivery.

關於我們的創新中心。該建築目前被用作我們的車輛和電池的測試和認證中心、交付前檢驗場地和庫存倉庫。這使我們能夠利用可用空間並優化營運效率。此外，我們很快就會開始使用創新中心作為陳列室和交付中心，供客戶在測試跑道上查看和測試我們的車輛並接收交付。

In a nutshell, we have been able to expand our manufacturing capacity to our targeted levels and the CapEx investments for our 2 growth projects will be completed by the end of this year.

簡而言之，我們已經能夠將製造能力擴大到目標水平，而我們兩個成長項目的資本支出投資將在今年年底完成。

On that note, I will now ask Nicolas to dive into our commercial operations performance before turning it to Richard will discuss the financial highlights of our Q3 results.

在這一點上，我現在將請尼古拉斯深入了解我們的商業營運業績，然後再交給理查德討論我們第三季業績的財務亮點。

Thank you, Marc. We delivered 245 vehicles in Q3, consisting of 220 school buses and 25 trucks. 132 vehicles were delivered in Canada and 113 in the U.S. This is a record number of overall quarterly deliveries but also a record for deliveries in the U.S. where we delivered purpose-built EV school buses to several new customers. The vast majority of those U.S. deliveries were part of the EPA's clean school bus program. We are pleased to make prompt deliveries under the EPA program demonstrated Lion's leadership in U.S. EV school buses. Cumulatively, for the first 9 months of the year, we delivered a total of 664 vehicles, almost twice the 345 vehicles delivered over the same time same last year.

謝謝你，馬克。第三季我們交付了 245 輛汽車，其中包括 220 輛校車和 25 輛卡車。在加拿大交付了 132 輛，在美國交付了 113 輛。這是季度總交付量的紀錄，也是美國交付量的紀錄。我們在美國向幾位新客戶交付了專用電動校車。絕大多數在美國交付的車輛都是美國環保署清潔校車計畫的一部分。我們很高興能夠根據 EPA 計劃及時交付，這證明了 Lion 在美國電動校車領域的領導地位。今年前 9 個月，我們累計交付了 664 輛汽車，幾乎是去年同期交付量 345 輛的兩倍。

With respect to the order book, it currently stands at 2,232 vehicles, that's 268 trucks and 1,964 buses, totaling $525 million with the Lion Energy book at 129 charging stations, representing $4 million. Worth mentioning is a conditional order from Highland Electric for 50 LionC school buses, which we announced this past Friday.

就訂單而言，目前其訂單量為 2,232 輛汽車，其中包括 268 輛卡車和 1,964 輛公共汽車，總計 5.25 億美元，其中 Lion Energy 的訂單量為 129 個充電站，價值 400 萬美元。值得一提的是，我們上週五宣布了 Highland Electric 訂購 50 輛 LionC 校車的有條件訂單。

This quarter's vehicle order book was affected by various factors, including the removal of 140 units from the deferral of the LionA platform discussed earlier as well as purchase order delays and cancellations related to subsidy programs mostly stemming from clients awaiting funding decisions. We anticipate a positive momentum in all electric school buses as a result of attractive funding programs including awards under the $400 million 2023 EPA grant program, which drove significant customer interest ahead of applications in August and for which customer awards are expected in Q1 2024.

本季度的車輛訂單受到多種因素的影響，包括前面討論的 LionA 平台延期中取消了 140 輛汽車，以及與補貼計劃相關的採購訂單延遲和取消，主要是由於客戶等待資金決定。我們預計，由於有吸引力的資助計劃，包括2023 年EPA 撥款計劃4 億美元的獎勵，所有電動校車將出現積極的勢頭，該計劃在8 月份的申請之前引起了客戶的極大興趣，預計客戶將在2024 年第一季獲得獎勵。

Potential orders under the 2023 EPA rebate program with a budget of $500 million, requiring applications by January 2024, with award announcement scheduled for April 2024. Several appealing programs in states such as Texas, Colorado, New York, Michigan and California, which could drive school bus demand beyond the set of the EPA program, and momentum in the Quebec school bus market, where the subsidy program was recently renewed (inaudible) with an increase of available funding from $125,000 per bus to $175,000 per bus, depending on battery capacity.

2023 年EPA 退款計劃下的潛在訂單預算為5 億美元，要求在2024 年1 月之前提出申請，計劃於2024 年4 月公佈獎勵。德克薩斯州、科羅拉多州、紐約州、密西根州和加州等州的幾個有吸引力的計劃可能會推動校車需求超出EPA 計劃範圍，魁北克校車市場勢頭強勁，最近更新了補貼計劃（聽不清），可用資金從每輛校車125,000 美元增加到每輛校車175,000 美元，視電池容量而定。

This momentum in the school bus space is further supported by an increasing number of states passing laws to accelerate the electrification of the transportation sector. Separately, we are in ongoing dialogue with the Canadian federal government, the satisfactory approval of sizable applications for school bus deployments placed under the ZETF program. Successful completion of this process would enable timely equal deliveries and could generate further applications for potential new purchase orders.

越來越多的州透過法律加速交通部門的電氣化，進一步支持了校車領域的這種勢頭。另外，我們正在與加拿大聯邦政府進行持續對話，並令人滿意地批准了 ZETF 計劃下的大量校車部署申請。成功完成此流程將能夠及時平等交付，並可能為潛在的新採購訂單產生進一步的申請。

On the truck side, while this market is still at a very early stage with electrification just commencing, we remain very enthusiastic about our prospects in the Class 5 to 8 market. Leveraging our purpose-built truck platform, Lion stands out as one of the few players of critical massive vehicle on road, and we expect the upcoming deployments of Lion5 units to generate significant customer interest. Like in the school bus sector, we are closely monitoring billions in existing and upcoming subsidy programs aimed at accelerating fleet electrification.

在卡車方面，雖然該市場仍處於早期階段，電氣化剛剛開始，但我們仍然對 5 至 8 級市場的前景充滿熱情。利用我們的專用卡車平台，Lion 成為道路上為數不多的關鍵大型車輛參與者之一，我們預計即將部署的 Lion5 裝置將引起客戶的極大興趣。與校車行業一樣，我們正在密切關注旨在加速車隊電氣化的現有和即將推出的數十億美元的補貼計劃。

To conclude, we continue to experience strong customer engagement on fleet electrification underpinned by [special] desire to transition to EV as well as emerging regulation and attractive subsidy programs and we believe Lion is very well positioned to address this upcoming demand.

總而言之，在向電動車過渡的[特殊]願望以及新興監管和有吸引力的補貼計劃的支撐下，我們繼續體驗到客戶對車隊電氣化的強烈參與，我們相信Lion 非常有能力滿足這一即將到來的需求。

On that note, Richard will now discuss our financial performance. Richard?

就此而言，理查德現在將討論我們的財務表現。理查德？

Thank you, Nicolas. I will start by commenting on Q3 results, including an update on CapEx. I will then discuss our liquidity position. In Q3, we delivered 245 vehicles, resulting in record revenue of $80 million. This represents revenue growth of almost 100% compared to the same period last year and close to 40% versus Q2 2023. This increase in sales volume, coupled with favorable product mix and average selling prices as well as continued cost discipline led to gross margins of 6.7% compared to negative 9.3% in the previous year.

謝謝你，尼古拉斯。我將首先評論第三季的業績，包括資本支出的更新。然後我將討論我們的流動性狀況。第三季度，我們交付了 245 輛汽車，營收創紀錄地達到 8,000 萬美元。這意味著營收與去年同期相比成長近100%，與2023 年第二季相比成長接近40%。銷量的成長，加上有利的產品組合和平均售價以及持續的成本控制，導致毛利率為6.7%，而前一年為負 9.3%。

For the quarter, SG&A before noncash share-based compensation was $17 million. As a percentage of revenue, SG&A before noncash share-based compensation decreased from 36% to 21% over the last year due to disciplined cost containment efforts. This is a trend we are looking at maintaining as we continue to focus on reaching our profitability and positive free cash flow objectives.

本季度，不計非現金股份薪酬的銷售管理及行政費用 (SG&A) 為 1,700 萬美元。由於嚴格的成本控制措施，非現金股權激勵前的銷售、管理和行政費用佔收入的百分比從去年的 36% 下降到 21%。隨著我們繼續專注於實現獲利能力和積極的自由現金流目標，我們正在尋求維持這一趨勢。

Adjusted EBITDA improved to negative $3.9 million from negative $15.1 million in Q3 2022. Additions to net intangible assets, mostly related to R&D amounted to $15 million, a decrease of $3 million when compared to $18 million in Q3 2022.

調整後EBITDA 從2022 年第三季的負1,510 萬美元增至負390 萬美元。無形資產淨值增加（主要與研發相關）達到1,500 萬美元，比2022 年第三季的1,800 萬美元減少了300 萬美元。

Capital expenditures amounted to $16 million, including $4 million for Joliet and $8 million for the Lion campus, a significant decrease as compared to $29 million last year. We anticipate combined CapEx spend of approximately $12 million in Q4 for the Joliet plant and the Lion Campus, leading us to the conclusion of our main initial investment on these projects. We, therefore, continue to expect minimal capital expenditures in the foreseeable future, mostly maintenance CapEx as our growth projects have reached their targeted capacity level.

資本支出為1600萬美元，其中Joliet園區為400萬美元，Lion園區為800萬美元，與去年的2900萬美元相比大幅減少。我們預計第四季度 Joliet 工廠和 Lion Campus 的資本支出總計約為 1,200 萬美元，這將使我們完成對這些項目的主要初始投資。因此，我們繼續預期在可預見的未來資本支出將降至最低，主要是維護資本支出，因為我們的成長項目已達到目標產能水準。

Now turning to liquidity and capital resources. In Q3, we successfully closed financings resulting in $142 million of gross proceeds or $136 million net, which provides us with additional flexibility to continue to execute our plan. As of September 30, 2023, our immediate liquidity stood at $132 million, consisting of $36 million in cash and $96 million in immediate borrowing capacity on our revolver. At the end of the quarter, our debt balance stood at $176 million.

現在轉向流動性和資本資源。在第三季度，我們成功完成了融資，產生了 1.42 億美元的總收益或 1.36 億美元的淨收益，這為我們繼續執行我們的計劃提供了額外的靈活性。截至 2023 年 9 月 30 日，我們的即時流動資金為 1.32 億美元，其中包括 3,600 萬美元現金和 9,600 萬美元的左輪手槍即時借款能力。截至本季末，我們的債務餘額為 1.76 億美元。

Finally, as we move forward with our 2024 budgetary process, we continue to focus on decreasing product costs, optimizing working capital management and improving our internal cost structure.

最後，隨著我們推進 2024 年預算流程，我們將繼續專注於降低產品成本、優化營運資金管理和改善內部成本結構。

Back to you, Marc.

回到你身邊，馬克。

Thank you, Richard. Before we open the line for questions, let me conclude by saying that we are pleased with our Q3 performance and thrilled about the opportunities unfolding in the EV market and our positioning. Our commitment is to achieve profitability and positive free cash flow, and we are confident that we have the right elements in place, the right focus and the right strategy to achieve our objectives.

謝謝你，理查。在我們開始提問之前，請允許我最後說，我們對第三季的業績感到滿意，並對電動車市場中出現的機會和我們的定位感到興奮。我們的承諾是實現盈利和正的自由現金流，我們相信我們擁有正確的要素、正確的重點和正確的策略來實現我們的目標。

Thank you for your attention this morning. Let's now open the line for questions.

感謝您今天早上的關注。現在讓我們打開提問熱線。

Operator, we will now open the lines for questions. (Operator Instructions)

接線員，我們現在開始提問。 （操作員說明）

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

I think we have a question from George. George, please go ahead.

我想我們有喬治的問題。喬治，請繼續。

Congratulations on a great quarter. I wanted to ask about the sustainability of your -- the gross margin momentum that you showed. How should we think about the next couple of few quarters in terms of modeling the gross margins going forward?

恭喜您度過了一個美好的季度。我想問一下你們所表現出的毛利率動能的可持續性。我們應該如何考慮未來幾季的毛利率建模？

I'll take that one. Thank you for the question, George. So we achieved a record 6.7% gross margin in Q3, so representing a substantial increase as compared to 0.7% in Q2 of 2023 and a negative 9.3% in Q3 2022. So sustaining positive gross margin and achieving positive EBITDA and free cash flow clearly is #1 priority at Lion. It would obviously require continued focus on revenue growth and tight management -- cost management. We're definitely in the right direction but we could see some volatility as we continue to ramp up.

我會接受那個。謝謝你的提問，喬治。因此，我們在第三季實現了創紀錄的6.7% 毛利率，與2023 年第二季的0.7% 和2022 年第三季的負9.3% 相比大幅成長。因此，保持正毛利率並實現正EBITDA 和自由現金流顯然是重要的Lion 的#1 優先順序。顯然，這需要繼續關注收入成長和嚴格的管理——成本管理。我們的方向肯定是正確的，但隨著我們繼續增加，我們可能會看到一些波動。

New platform deliveries on the LionD and Lion5 starting this quarter and the gradual integration of our Lion battery into -- currently commercial model could temporarily affect our gross margin. We continue to be very focused on driving productivity within the organization and working at reducing our product cost.

從本季開始，LionD 和 Lion5 上的新平台交付以及我們的 Lion 電池逐步整合到目前的商業模式中可能會暫時影響我們的毛利率。我們持續非常注重提高組織內的生產力並致力於降低產品成本。

And then maybe just as my second question, again, is a housekeeping. You mentioned that going forward, your growth CapEx is more or less complete. Can you just remind us what the level of maintenance CapEx we should assume for the firm for the next couple of few years?

也許就像我的第二個問題一樣，是家事服務。您提到，展望未來，您的成長資本支出或多或少已經完成。您能否提醒我們，未來幾年我們應該為公司假設多少維護資本支出水準？

Should be pretty minimal. Right now, we're really aiming at single-digit CapEx for next year. It's going to be largely maintenance CapEx.

應該是非常小的。目前，我們的目標是明年實現個位數的資本支出。這將主要用於維護資本支出。

Single-digit millions is the number you mentioned?

您提到的數字是個位數百萬嗎？

Correct.

正確的。

We now have Mike Shlisky of D.A. Davidson.

現在我們有地方檢察官辦公室的麥克‧施利斯基 (Mike Shlisky)。戴維森。

So right now, you're up and running with a really nice-looking plant in Illinois, obviously, well established in Quebec. Do you have any view as to when your visibility is going to be good enough at this point. You start giving us some guidance about what your deliveries might be at least 1 quarter out, how consistent is your production rate right now?

所以現在，您在伊利諾伊州建立並運行了一個非常漂亮的工廠，顯然，在魁北克也建立了良好的基礎。您是否認為此時您的能見度何時會夠好？您開始向我們提供一些指導，說明您的交貨時間可能至少提前 1 個季度，您目前的生產力是否穩定？

All right Mike, Nick here. I'll take this one. Look, I mean, we're still in ramp-up mode. The guidance decision is one that we're always assessing internally. We don't have an update to provide this morning and when things change, we will, but won't -- there's no set timing for us to provide any guidance going forward.

好吧，麥克，尼克在這裡。我要這個。聽著，我的意思是，我們仍處於加速模式。我們一直在內部評估指導決策。今天早上我們沒有提供更新，當事情發生變化時，我們會，但不會——我們沒有固定的時間來提供任何未來的指導。

Okay. Okay. Maybe you can ask -- just talk a little bit about the Lion8 tractor. I guess, I am curious, you said it's little bit behind in the speech that how you develop the battery, guided into the truck and getting that whole project finalized. Was there a high cost there over the last couple of quarters that we should be thinking about? And do you expect to recover most of that from Nikola once that case is resolved?

好的。好的。也許你可以問——簡單談談 Lion8 拖拉機。我想，我很好奇，你在演講中說，你如何開發電池、引導到卡車上並最終完成整個專案。我們應該考慮過去幾季的高成本嗎？一旦案件解決，您是否希望從尼古拉那裡收回大部分資金？

Well, with respect to Nikola Motors, well, you know that the -- we've terminated basically the -- what was going through with them right now. So the proceeding against Romeo but now civil proceedings against Nikola. But going back to your question on the [achieving], we have no choice in using our own batteries. And the HD batteries will be certified early next year, and we will be able to use those battery on the Lion8 tractor.

嗯，關於尼古拉汽車公司，你知道，我們基本上已經終止了他們現在正在經歷的事情。因此，針對羅密歐的訴訟，現在是針對尼古拉的民事訴訟。但回到你關於[實現]的問題，我們別無選擇，只能使用我們自己的電池。 HD 電池將於明年初獲得認證，我們將能夠在 Lion8 拖拉機上使用這些電池。

This Lion8 tractor, I need to tell you, Mike, is amazing. And obviously, the whole market is expecting it. We will be able to put a lot of kilowatt hour on those trucks. So we will have a lot of range as well. So we're expecting very good demand, I mean for that product. But obviously, going back to the root of your question on Nikola Motors, respectively, I mean, we will not be able to comment further because of the proceedings going on right now.

麥克，我需要告訴你，這台 Lion8 拖拉機非常棒。顯然，整個市場都在期待它。我們將能夠為這些卡車提供大量千瓦時的電力。所以我們也會有很多範圍。因此，我們預期會有非常好的需求，我指的是產品。但顯然，回到你關於尼古拉汽車公司的問題的根源，我的意思是，由於目前正在進行的訴訟程序，我們將無法進一步發表評論。

We now have Benoit Poirier from Desjardins Capital Bank.

現在我們邀請了 Desjardins Capital Bank 的 Benoit Poirier。

Yes. Just looking at your truck backlog, if you remove the 140-purchase order -- sorry, for the -- just looking on the bus side, there was 140 purchase orders removed from the LionA but it looks like that there is some booking was lower on the bus side. Could you comment about your bidding pipeline and your ability to secure more momentum on the bus side in 2024?

是的。看看你的卡車積壓訂單，如果你刪除了 140 個採購訂單——抱歉，只是看看巴士方面，LionA 上刪除了 140 個採購訂單，但看起來有些預訂量較低在公車一側。您能否評論一下您的投標管道以及您在 2024 年確保公車方面獲得更多動力的能力？

Yes, certainly. Ben, I'll take this one. Look, there are a number of moving parts in the order book during the quarter. As you mentioned, the most important one was the removal of the 140 LionA units related to the postponement. But there's also some volatility caused by the timing of the subsidy programs, and that's expected as customers await to know what their allocations are or what the programs that are being put in place or renewed before they're placing the order.

是的，當然了。本，我要這個。看，本季訂單簿中有許多變動的部分。正如您所提到的，最重要的一個是拆除與延期相關的 140 個 LionA 單位。但補貼計畫的時間安排也會造成一些波動，這是預期的，因為客戶在下訂單之前等待知道他們的補貼是什麼，或正在實施或更新的計畫是什麼。

I think it's important to reemphasize that we continue to see strong engagement from the customers towards fleet electrification. And we see some upcoming catalysts in the order flow. I mentioned earlier the EPA rounds 2 and 3 for which allocation to customers are expected -- allocation of awards are expected early next year. That's $900 million of school bus funding, right, that's coming in the U.S. federally in -- somewhere in between end of Q1 and beginning of April.

我認為有必要再次強調，我們繼續看到客戶對車隊電氣化的強烈參與。我們在訂單流中看到了一些即將到來的催化劑。我之前提到 EPA 第 2 輪和第 3 輪預計將分配給客戶——預計將於明年初分配獎勵。這是 9 億美元的校車資金，對吧，美國聯邦政府將於第一季末到四月初之間撥款。

In the Quebec market here, which is obviously a big market for us, there was a pause, if you will, in the subsidy program as it was being extended and renewed. And the good news is that the subsidy that previously paid $125,000 per school bus was extended, and it was increased where now the operators can obtain up to $175,000 per bus based on -- depending on battery capacity.

在魁北克市場，這對我們來說顯然是一個大市場，如果你願意的話，補貼計劃在延長和更新時出現了暫停。好消息是，之前為每輛校車支付 125,000 美元的補貼得到了延長，並且增加了，現在運營商可以獲得每輛校車高達 175,000 美元的補貼，具體取決於電池容量。

There's the ZETF program that we talked about that could lead to more near-term deliveries for us when the approval -- when we hopefully get the approvals. But also that will drive more purchase order flows, we believe, and then there's a number of various funding alternatives as well at the state and at the provincial level. So overall, we continue to feel very good about the demand environment, but those subsidy programs can create some volatility in the order book on a quarter-to-quarter basis.

我們談到了 ZETF 計劃，當我們希望獲得批准時，該計劃可能會為我們帶來更多的近期交付。我們相信，這也將推動更多的採購訂單流，並且在州和省級也有許多不同的融資選擇。因此，總體而言，我們仍然對需求環境感覺非常好，但這些補貼計劃可能會在季度與季度之間造成訂單簿的一些波動。

Okay. And with respect to this recently bus order from Ireland, which is conditional, what is the timing with regard to the final approval for the Canadian ZETF subsidy?

好的。至於最近來自愛爾蘭的這份有條件的巴士訂單，加拿大 ZETF 補貼的最終批准時間是什麼時候？

Yes. I mean it's -- we have a number of orders that are in the queue for the ZETF, tough to point to specific timing of each, what we say on the larger orders, we're progressing well in the dialogue. We hope that it's in the near term, but obviously, difficult to pinpoint a specific time. But it's live right now and (inaudible).

是的。我的意思是，我們有許多訂單正在等待 ZETF，很難指出每個訂單的具體時間，我們對較大訂單的看法，我們在對話中進展順利。我們希望這是在短期內，但顯然很難確定具體時間。但它現在正在直播（聽不清楚）。

We now have Dan Levy of Barclays.

我們現在有巴克萊銀行的丹·利維。

Josh on for Dan's line today. I had a quick question on if we're getting any mix benefits from an increase in U.S. sales. I saw that the U.S. volumes ticked up quite a bit this quarter and ASPs also went up accordingly. So I was wondering if there's any correlation or potential benefit from increasing sales into the U.S. versus Canada?

喬許今天接聽丹的台詞。我有一個簡單的問題，我們是否能從美國銷售的成長中獲得任何綜合效益。我看到本季美國的銷量大幅上升，平均售價也相應上升。所以我想知道增加美國與加拿大的銷售是否有任何相關性或潛在的好處？

Yes, Bob (sic) [Josh], thank you for this one. The short of it is, yes, typically in the U.S. market, we tend to sell units with more onboard energy, higher battery capacity, more auctions. The U.S. market is a more intricate market relative to Canadian market where there's less differences in between a province and the state. Obviously, there's -- the regulatory environment is different. And so we do tend to sell vehicles with more options that are more customer in the U.S. and have a higher average selling price. Obviously, keep in mind, the U.S. market is about 10x than the Canadian market, and it's our goal to match that over (inaudible)

是的，鮑伯（原文如此）[喬許]，謝謝你。缺點是，是的，通常在美國市場，我們傾向於銷售具有更多機載能源、更高電池容量和更多拍賣的設備。與加拿大市場相比，美國市場是一個更複雜的市場，加拿大市場之間的省和州之間的差異較小。顯然，監管環境有所不同。因此，我們確實傾向於銷售具有更多選擇的車輛，這些車輛在美國擁有更多客戶，並且平均售價更高。顯然，請記住，美國市場大約是加拿大市場的 10 倍，我們的目標是趕上這一水平（聽不清楚）

And as a follow-up, we're seeing a somewhat slower EV uptake among the medium and heavy-duty trucks. And I was wondering if you have any inclinations on whether maybe like some of the states like California or any of those other states on the advanced green fleet will potentially consider bumping up the potential regulatory credits to (inaudible) some more demand there?

作為後續行動，我們看到中型和重型卡車中電動車的採用速度有所放緩。我想知道您是否有任何傾向，是否像加州或其他擁有先進綠色車隊的州一樣，可能會考慮提高潛在的監管信貸，以滿足（聽不清楚）那裡的更多需求？

I mean, look, there's the -- let me start by saying that in the truck space, the truck EV market for the Class 5 days is really still at a (inaudible), right? If you look at as of June 30 this year, there were less than 1,000 vehicles registered. And based on this data, the Lion would be the fourth player in the space. So we're one of the very few players with critical mass and importantly, with a purpose-built product out there. There we have seen some positive legislation. You talked about California (inaudible) that's certainly a positive development. This is more on the regulation side.

我的意思是，看，首先讓我說在卡車領域，5 級卡車電動車市場確實仍然處於（聽不清楚），對吧？截至今年6月30日，註冊車輛不足1000輛。根據這些數據，獅子將成為該領域的第四位玩家。因此，我們是極少數擁有臨界質量的參與者之一，重要的是，我們擁有專門的產品。在那裡我們看到了一些積極的立法。您談到了加州（聽不清楚），這當然是一個積極的發展。這更多是在監管方面。

And typically, yes, we've seen that following regulation is the modification, if you will, of the subsidy programs. We don't have direct visibility into that, but we've seen it in other markets, and we're certainly hoping it will be the case as well. Altogether, again, the market is just at the beginning, and we have the product and the manufacturing capacity to accommodate clients as things ramp up, and we're very hopeful for this market to increase significantly over time exactly when (inaudible).

通常，是的，我們已經看到以下監管是對補貼計劃的修改（如果你願意的話）。我們無法直接了解這一點，但我們已經在其他市場看到了這一點，我們當然希望情況也是如此。總而言之，市場才剛開始，隨著情況的發展，我們擁有滿足客戶需求的產品和製造能力，我們非常希望這個市場隨著時間的推移而顯著成長（聽不清楚）。

We have our next question from Tamy Chen with BMO Capital Markets.

我們有來自 BMO 資本市場的 Tamy Chen 的下一個問題。

Can you go back to the Canadian subsidy program, the ZETF. What's causing again some of the delays? Is it the -- just the application, there's additional nuances or revisions required. And so there's just been a delay from an administrative perspective. I'm just trying to understand what's going on there.

您能回到加拿大補貼計畫 ZETF 嗎？是什麼再次導致一些延誤？只是應用程式嗎？還需要其他細微差別或修改嗎？因此，從行政角度來看，只是出現了延誤。我只是想了解那裡發生了什麼事。

Yes, Tamy. Look, the ZETF program is one that is very specific application by application. And so it's every approval is different. The orders that we have in the queue are, we believe, the first big ones for the school bus because recall that the program is both for transit and school buses. And those are the first big ones for the school bus. And so there's dialogue between the federal government ourselves and our clients to find the appropriate -- to get the appropriate terms. I need to point out that the acts of our clients to directly within the parameters of the program.

是的，塔米。看，ZETF 計劃是一個非常具體的應用程式。所以每次批准都是不同的。我們相信，我們排隊的訂單是校車的第一批大訂單，因為回想一下，該計劃既針對公共交通又針對校車。這些是校車的第一批大件。因此，聯邦政府和我們的客戶之間會進行對話，以找到合適的條件—獲得合適的條款。我需要指出的是，我們的客戶的行為直接在程式的參數內進行。

And so we're hopeful that we'll get a good resolution. And again, it's very bespoke application by application. And obviously, there's -- yes, there is an administrative burden to that. We believe that once -- the first large ones are hopefully approved that things can accelerate from that.

因此，我們希望能夠得到一個好的解決方案。再說一次，它是逐個應用程式自訂的。顯然，是的，這會帶來行政負擔。我們相信，一旦第一批大型專案獲得批准，事情就會加速發展。

I see. Okay. And the Lion8 bus, the school bus. So I just want to make sure I understand you post -- the 400 -- sorry, the 140 units deferred in your order book, is that on the Lion8 school bus? And so was that the customer deferred or you made the decision to prioritize other higher demand products? I just want to make sure I understand that as correctly.

我懂了。好的。還有Lion8 巴士，即校車。所以我只是想確保我理解你的帖子——400 輛——抱歉，你的訂單中推遲了 140 輛，是在 Lion8 校車上嗎？那麼是客戶延遲了還是您決定優先考慮其他需求更高的產品？我只是想確保我理解正確。

Yes, this is related to the Lion8 school bus, and it's a matter of focus. We're strong believers and focus as you know when we decided to focus on the commercial production of the high-demand products as you were saying. So it's the LionC, and most -- it's also the LionD coming to market, the Lion5 and the Lion8 a little bit later. So all a matter of focus and cost control.

是的，這和Lion8校車有關，而且是重點問題。正如您所說，當我們決定專注於高需求產品的商業生產時，我們是堅定的信念和專注的人。所以這是LionC，最重要的是LionD 即將上市，Lion5 和Lion8 稍晚。因此，一切都取決於重點和成本控制。

And if I just address the order book part, it was us removing those units from the order book as we're undertaking dialogue with the customers to see if there's a desire to defer the longer period, the order or convert it to a LionC or LionD order. But just in our review, we felt prudent to remove those from the order book.

如果我只討論訂單簿部分，我們會從訂單簿中刪除這些單位，因為我們正在與客戶進行對話，看看是否希望推遲更長的期限、訂單或將其轉換為 LionC 或獅子D命令。但就在我們的審查中，我們認為謹慎地將它們從訂單中刪除。

We now have Chris Souther, B. Riley Financial.

我們現在邀請了 Chris Souther，B. Riley Financial。

I just wanted to touch a little bit on kind of the production mix between the 2 facilities. Could you give us any sense of what the kind of output is starting to hit out of Joliet here? And then I have a follow-up.

我只是想稍微談談這兩個工廠之間的生產組合。您能為我們介紹一下喬利埃特在這裡開始產生什麼樣的輸出嗎？然後我有一個後續行動。

Yes. Chris, yes, the cadence is going well. You will probably remember we have a manufacturing capacity of 1,000 buses in Montreal, and we have a manufacturing capacity of 2,500 buses in Joliet. And in Montreal, we also had capacity for 1,500 trucks on an annual basis. So the cadence is going very well. And there was no question yet on the supply chain. But supply chain is getting a lot more stable. And that was the discussion we have probably for the last 2 years.

是的。克里斯，是的，節奏進展順利。您可能還記得，我們​​在蒙特婁擁有 1,000 輛巴士的製造能力，在喬利埃特擁有 2,500 輛巴士的製造能力。在蒙特婁，我們還擁有每年 1,500 輛卡車的產能。所以節奏進展得很好。供應鏈上還沒有任何問題。但供應鏈正變得更加穩定。這就是我們過去兩年可能會進行的討論。

So it's getting a lot more stable, and we've been working a lot on the redundancy of suppliers as well. So it's going quite well. So our goal is really to increase the pace as needed. And you know that the goal is also to manufacture in the country where the buses are being delivered, and we're getting there.

所以它變得更加穩定，我們也在供應商的裁員方面做了很多工作。所以一切進展順利。所以我們的目標其實是根據需要加快步伐。您知道，我們的目標也是在交付巴士的國家/地區進行製造，我們正在實現這一目標。

So obviously, we're doing less buses in the U.S. right now than we're doing on the Canadian side. But as Nick was saying earlier, I mean, the U.S. market is 10x bigger than Canadian market. And with the manufacturing capacity of 2,500 buses on the U.S. side, we're very, very well equipped to increase that pace as we get more orders we'll be able to deliver.

顯然，我們現在在美國的公車數量比在加拿大的公車數量要少。但正如尼克之前所說，我的意思是，美國市場比加拿大市場大 10 倍。憑藉美國方面 2,500 輛公車的製造能力，隨著我們能夠交付更多訂單，我們非常非常有能力加快這一步伐。

Yes. Just to clarify that the answer like we -- in the third quarter, the deliveries by country kind of matched up with the geography of the manufacturing facility? Or are we not quite there yet on the U.S. school bus side?

是的。只是為了澄清像我們一樣的答案 - 在第三季度，按國家/地區劃分的交付量與製造工廠的地理位置相匹配？或者說我們在美國校車方面還沒有完全實現這個目標？

By and large. Yes. Off course that's...

總的來說。是的。當然那是...

Got it. Okay. And then if I'm kind of looking at the margin increase, I think pricing had a big piece to do with that. As we kind of trend higher with -- can you just kind of talk through what that premium in the U.S. should be that we can kind of bake in as we have U.S. kind of ramping up more? I just want to get a sense how much continued opportunity of price increase on the ASP side, we have? And is there any kind of delta on the production cost side between the 2 at this stage? And then I'll have to...

知道了。好的。然後，如果我關注利潤成長，我認為定價與此有很大關係。隨著我們的趨勢走高，您能否談談美國的溢價應該是多少，當我們的美國價格上漲更多時，我們可以吸收這些溢價？我只是想了解 ASP 方面有多少持續漲價的機會？現階段兩者在生產成本上是否有差異？然後我必須...

Yes. Chris, as I mentioned earlier, it really is about selling -- it's about the onboard energy that we have in the vehicles. It's about the options that we have in there. For an equal build, there's no price difference or at least no material price difference between producing in Canada and producing in the U.S. So it really is about mix and options on the vehicle more than anything else. And I couldn't point to a rule of thumb of U.S. versus Canada.

是的。克里斯，正如我之前提到的，這實際上是關於銷售——這是關於我們在車輛中擁有的車載能源。這是關於我們在那裡擁有的選擇。對於同等的構造，在加拿大生產和在美國生產之間沒有價格差異，或至少沒有實質價格差異，因此，最重要的是車輛的組合和選擇。我無法指出美國與加拿大的經驗法則。

We now have the next question from Rupert Merer of National Bank.

現在我們有國家銀行的魯珀特·梅勒 (Rupert Merer) 提出的下一個問題。

On working capital, your working capital increased a little bit in the quarter. Wondering if you can give some color on what drove that. I imagine a combination of batteries and vehicles. And how do you see that evolving over the next few quarters?

在營運資金方面，本季您的營運資金略有增加。想知道您是否可以解釋一下是什麼推動了這一點。我想像電池和車輛的組合。您如何看待未來幾季的發展？

Thank you for the question. I'll take that one. So obviously, there's a portion of the working capital increase that's directly connected with the growth in our production, but also the introduction of the LionD, the Lion5, and also we're preparing for the integration of our own batteries into our platform, so this is somewhat driving some of the increase.

感謝你的提問。我會接受那個。顯然，營運資金的增加有一部分與我們產量的成長直接相關，而且還有LionD、Lion5的推出，而且我們正在準備將我們自己的電池整合到我們的平台中，所以這在一定程度上推動了部分增長。

I can tell you, we're very focused on working capital, one strategy we have in place with overstocking of inventory given the supply chain prices that we went through in the last year or so. And today, as Marc pointed out, we don't necessarily need this strategy anymore. So right now, we're very focused on really reducing working capital and we expect to see working capital turning around in the next few quarters.

我可以告訴你，我們非常關注營運資金，考慮到我們在過去一年左右經歷的供應鏈價格，我們採取了庫存過剩的策略。而今天，正如馬克所指出的那樣，我們不一定再需要這種策略了。因此，現在我們非常專注於真正減少營運資本，我們預計營運資本將在未來幾季內出現改善。

Is there much in inventory related to vehicles that are awaiting ZETF funding? And when you get funding, could you see some of that working capital coming out?

與正在等待 ZETF 融資的車輛相關的庫存是否有很多？當你獲得資金時，你能看到一些營運資金流出嗎？

Yes. Well, as Nick pointed out earlier, there's a couple that were waiting approval, there is one that has been lagging from last quarter with [lengths], there's 50 of them that are definitely just waiting to be delivered. So yes, there are some, and you will see some uptake here as we get the approvals.

是的。嗯，正如尼克之前指出的那樣，有一些正在等待批准，有一個比上季度[長度]滯後，其中有 50 個肯定只是在等待交付。所以是的，有一些，當我們獲得批准時，您會在這裡看到一些吸收。

Great. And then secondly, you talked about the fact that the supply chain is easing. And earlier on in your prepared comments, you talked about focus on cost reduction. Wondering if you can give us some color about where we are today in the costs and where are the opportunities to drive out cost in the future? And also, if you could give a comment on inflation and if you're seeing now, say, a reduction in the inflation that we've seen over the last few years?

偉大的。其次，您談到了供應鏈正在放鬆的事實。早些時候，在您準備好的評論中，您談到了專注於降低成本。想知道您能否告訴我們目前的成本狀況以及未來降低成本的機會在哪裡？另外，您是否可以對通貨膨脹發表評論？如果您現在看到，比如說，過去幾年我們看到的通貨膨脹有所下降？

Yes. Rupert, this is Marc. Yes, we're focused on reducing the cost as you know. So there's many places where there's going to be -- there will be savings in the future. Obviously, the inflation didn't help. I mean, still hitting us the inflation right now as we all know but there are a lot of places where we see a lot of benefits.

是的。魯伯特，這是馬克。是的，如您所知，我們致力於降低成本。因此，未來將會有許多地方可以節省開支。顯然，通貨膨脹並沒有起到什麼作用。我的意思是，正如我們所知，目前通膨仍在打擊我們，但在很多地方我們看到了許多好處。

First of all, I need to tell you that our manufacturing processes are a lot more stable. And this is good. We've been doing this for many, many years, and we see the benefit of that. Obviously, with volume going up, then the amortization of the fixed cost is getting better. One place where we will be reducing significantly, and this is starting now. It's also in R&D. I mean we've invested a lot in R&D in the past and in the future, the R&D investments will be going down.

首先，我需要告訴你，我們的製造流程更加穩定。這很好。我們已經這樣做很多很多年了，我們看到了這樣做的好處。顯然，隨著銷售量的增加，固定成本的攤銷也越來越好。我們將大幅減少的一個地方，現在就開始。它也在研發中。我的意思是，我們過去在研發方面投入了大量資金，而未來，研發投入將會下降。

And speaking of cost control, you probably saw also that the SG&A has been very like stable. And we are looking at reducing the percentage of SG&A over sales in the next quarters as well. So for example, we've been able to double the sales this year compared to last year with about the same amount of SG&A expenses.

說到成本控制，您可能也看到 SG&A 非常穩定。我們還考慮在接下來的幾季降低銷售、管理和行政費用 (SG&A) 佔銷售額的百分比。例如，與去年相比，我們今年的銷售額翻了一番，而 SG&A 費用卻大致相同。

So it's all about the focus on our products. It's about the focus on the margin, bringing down those costs. And you probably saw as well that in Q3 of last year, Rupert, we sold 156 vehicles, and we had a negative EBITDA of $15 million. This year, we had a negative EBITDA of $3.9 million with 245 vehicles. So you can do the math. I believe that everyone can see that the business model is scaling very well. And we said that in the past but I think this is the proof that you're seeing now, it's scaling very well. And the good thing is that we don't need very high volume to reach profitability.

因此，這一切都與對我們產品的關注有關。這是關於關注利潤，降低這些成本。你可能也看到，魯伯特，去年第三季我們賣出了 156 輛汽車，我們的 EBITDA 為負 1500 萬美元。今年，我們擁有 245 輛汽車，EBITDA 為負 390 萬美元。所以你可以做數學計算。我相信大家都能看到，商業模式的擴展性非常好。我們過去說過，但我認為這就是你現在看到的證據，它的擴展性非常好。好處是我們不需要非常大的銷售量就能獲利。

Great. Thanks for the color, Marc. And definitely solid margins this quarter. Congrats. I'll get back in the queue.

偉大的。謝謝你的顏色，馬克。本季的利潤率絕對穩定。恭喜。我會回到隊列中。

Thank you, Rupert.

謝謝你，魯伯特。

We have the final question on the line registered from Abhishek Sinha with Northland Capital.

我們收到了 Abhishek Sinha 向 Northland Capital 提出的最後一個問題。

Yes. Just wondering, on your gross margin, I know you have 2 consecutive quarters of positive gross margin. So I understand the margins could be lumpy given the nature of the business but can we assume that the margins would be positive from here on going forward given your ramp up in the U.S. and higher ASPs and whatnot?

是的。只是想知道，就您的毛利率而言，我知道您已經連續兩個季度實現正毛利率。因此，我知道考慮到業務的性質，利潤率可能會不穩定，但考慮到您在美國的成長和更高的平均銷售價格等因素，我們是否可以假設從現在開始利潤率將是正值？

Yes. Abhishek, it was mentioned earlier, we're going to see some movements in gross margin. So obviously, with under volume, I mean, the margin is -- this is really helping the margin as I was just saying earlier, but the launch of the new platforms now. And we're talking about the Lion8 tractor in next year. We're talking about the Lion5 that we are starting the deliveries, I mean, in Q4 of this year and also the LionD. Well, it's obvious that the gross margin at the beginning of those products is not as good as the one it's going to be in the very near future. So we expect some volatility in the gross margin for the next 2 or 3 quarters because of those items.

是的。 Abhishek，之前提到過，我們將看到毛利率的一些變化。很明顯，由於銷量不足，我的意思是，利潤率是——正如我之前所說，這確實有助於利潤率，但現在新平台的推出。我們正在談論明年的 Lion8 拖拉機。我們談論的是Lion5，我的意思是，我們將在今年第四季開始交付，還有LionD。很明顯，這些產品一開始的毛利率並不像不久的將來那麼好。因此，由於這些項目，我們預計未來 2 或 3 個季度的毛利率將出現一些波動。

Got it. Could you comment on the M&A landscape in the sector? I mean we see some of the peers are under stress. Just wondering how you guys are evaluating any such opportunity or mostly just focused on organic growth from here?

知道了。您能否評論一下該產業的併購狀況？我的意思是我們看到一些同行承受壓力。只是想知道你們如何評估這類機會，或主要關注這裡的有機成長？

Yes. we were fully focused on managing our business. We're increasing our margin. I mean we're commercial -- the meetings with customers and having a very efficient operation as well. I mean this is our focus. So we're 100% focused on those items right now. So we're not looking at this.

是的。我們完全專注於管理我們的業務。我們正在增加利潤。我的意思是，我們是商業性的——與客戶會面，並且營運也非常有效率。我的意思是這是我們的重點。所以我們現在 100% 專注於這些項目。所以我們不看這個。

Thank you. We have no further questions on the line. So I'd like to hand it back to Ms. Adjahi for any final remarks.

謝謝。我們沒有其他問題了。因此，我想將其交還給阿賈希女士，讓其發表最後的意見。

Well, thanks, everyone, for joining the call today. We really look forward to continuing the discussion, and please free to contact me for any follow-up questions you may have. Have a nice day. Thank you.

好的，謝謝大家今天加入電話會議。我們真誠地期待繼續討論，如果您有任何後續問題，請隨時與我聯繫。祝你今天過得愉快。謝謝。

Thank you for joining. I can confirm this does conclude today's conference call. Please have a lovely rest of your day, and you may now disconnect.

感謝您的加入。我可以確認今天的電話會議確實結束了。請度過愉快的一天，現在您可以斷開連接了。