Lion Electric Co (LEV) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Lion Electric's fourth-quarter and fiscal 2023 results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

大家，早安。歡迎參加 Lion Electric 第四季和 2023 財政年度業績電話會議。（操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the call over to Isabelle Adjahi, Vice President, Investor Relations and Sustainable Development. Please go ahead, Miss Adjahi.

我現在想將電話轉給投資者關係和永續發展副總裁 Isabelle Adjahi。請繼續，阿賈希小姐。

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Lion's fourth-quarter and fiscal 2023 results conference call. (spoken in foreign language) Today, I'm here with Marc Bedard, our CEO, Founder; Nicolas Brunet, our President; and Richard Coulombe, our Chief Financial Officer.

大家，早安。歡迎參加 Lion 第四季和 2023 財政年度業績電話會議。（用外語發言）今天，我和我們的執行長兼創辦人 Marc Bedard 在一起；尼古拉斯·布魯內特，我們的總統；和我們的財務長理查德·庫隆布。

Please note that our discussion may include estimates and other forward-looking information, and that our actual results could differ materially from those implied in any such statements. We invite you to review the cautionary language in this morning's press release and in our MD&A, which contains important information regarding various factors, assumptions, and risks that could impact our actual results.

請注意，我們的討論可能包括估計和其他前瞻性訊息，並且我們的實際結果可能與任何此類聲明中暗示的結果有重大差異。我們邀請您查看今天早上的新聞稿和 MD&A 中的警示性語言，其中包含有關可能影響我們實際結果的各種因素、假設和風險的重要資訊。

With that, let me turn it over to Marc to begin. Marc?

接下來，讓我把它交給馬克開始。馬克？

Thank you, Isabelle. Good morning, everyone. We will be discussing our Q4 results in a moment, but I first want to address our 2023 performance and highlight some of our achievements.

謝謝你，伊莎貝爾。大家，早安。我們稍後將討論第四季度的業績，但我首先想談談我們 2023 年的業績並強調我們的一些成就。

2023 has, without a doubt, been a challenging year for the whole EV industry, including for Lion, but it has also been a year of significant progress for our company. First, we saw a significant increase in deliveries, resulting in revenue growth of 81% for the year, in addition to achieving positive adjusted gross margins.

毫無疑問，2023 年對於包括雄獅在內的整個電動車產業來說是充滿挑戰的一年，但對我們公司來說也是取得重大進展的一年。首先，我們看到交付量顯著增加，除了實現正調整毛利率外，全年收入成長了 81%。

We also completed the construction of our vehicle production facility in Joliet and our battery plant in Mirabel, and started production at both facilities. We now have the infrastructure in place, including the production line and equipment, to achieve a production capacity of up to 5,000 vehicles per year and battery production capacity of 1.7 gigawatt-hour, enough to power 5,000 of our vehicles. With this significant manufacturing infrastructure in place, we do not plan to make any significant investments in gross CapEx for the foreseeable future.

我們還完成了喬利埃特的汽車生產設施和米拉貝爾的電池工廠的建設，並開始在這兩個工廠生產。目前，我們已經具備了生產線和設備等基礎設施，可實現每年生產 5,000 輛汽車的產能，以及 1.7 吉瓦時的電池產能，足以為 5,000 輛汽車提供動力。有了這項重要的製造基礎設施，我們不打算在可預見的未來對總資本支出進行任何重大投資。

We also obtained certification for our MD battery pack, which powers our Lion5 trucks today and will be integrated shortly on our LionC school buses. This represents a significant milestone in the execution of our vertical integration strategy.

我們還獲得了 MD 電池組的認證，該電池組今天為我們的 Lion5 卡車提供動力，並將很快整合到我們的 LionC 校車上。這是我們垂直整合策略執行過程中的重要里程碑。

And last but not least, we started the commercial production of the LionD school bus and the Lion5 truck, and we are planning to start the commercial production of the LionA tractor this summer. With our vehicle lineup nearly completed and with significant production infrastructure in place, we are well positioned to capture market share in the medium and heavy-duty EV space.

最後但並非最不重要的一點是，我們開始了LionD校車和Lion5卡車的商業化生產，我們計劃今年夏天開始LionA拖拉機的商業化生產。我們的車輛系列已接近完成，且重要的生產基礎設施已到位，我們已做好充分準備，佔領中型和重型電動車領域的市場份額。

Let me now comment on our Q4 results. During the quarter, we delivered 188 vehicles, leading to 29% revenue growth over Q4 2022. Despite maintaining a positive adjusted gross margin during the quarter, the 188 vehicles we delivered are below our expectations.

現在讓我評論我們第四季的業績。本季度，我們交付了 188 輛汽車，營收較 2022 年第四季成長 29%。儘管本季調整後毛利率保持正值，但我們交付的 188 輛汽車仍低於我們的預期。

This is mainly explained by two reasons. First, we incurred delays in the initial deliveries of the LionD school buses and the Lion5 trucks, as we wanted to ensure optimal quality of these vehicles, which were the first ones going to customers. And as a result, initial deliveries were pushed out to Q1 and Q2 of this year.

這主要是由兩個原因來解釋的。首先，我們延遲了 LionD 校車和 Lion5 卡車的首次交付，因為我們希望確保這些車輛的最佳質量，這些車輛是第一批交付給客戶的車輛。因此，首次交付被推遲到今年第一季和第二季。

And second, our Q4 deliveries and the pacing of new orders were significantly impacted by the substantial delays incurred by the Canadian government with its Zero Emission Transit Fund program, the ZETF, since several Canadian school bus operators are still waiting for an official approval to start receiving our electric buses. The continued uncertainty and delays around the ZETF program had a major impact on momentum of electric school bus deliveries in Canada, as the Canadian federal government and our clients currently work to evaluate and process sizable applications for school buses deployment that were filed several months ago.

其次，我們第四季度的交付和新訂單的節奏受到加拿大政府零排放交通基金計劃 ZETF 的嚴重延誤的影響，因為幾家加拿大校車運營商仍在等待正式批准啟動接收我們的電動巴士。ZETF 計畫的持續不確定性和延誤對加拿大電動校車的交付勢頭產生了重大影響，因為加拿大聯邦政府和我們的客戶目前正在評估和處理幾個月前提交的大量校車部署申請。

As a result of these delays and its impact on our world liquidity, we are taking immediate action by temporarily laying off approximately 100 employees, mostly impacting our night shift production workforce in Saint-Jerome. We will reassess our production needs on a regular basis in the upcoming months, mainly depending on the pace of the ZETF project approval and deployment.

由於這些延誤及其對我們全球流動性的影響，我們正在立即採取行動，暫時解僱約 100 名員工，其中大部分影響到我們在聖傑羅姆的夜班生產員工隊伍。我們將在未來幾個月定期重新評估我們的生產需求，主要取決於 ZETF 專案批准和部署的進度。

Before turning it over to Nicolas and Richard to provide more detailed insights into our commercial operations and financial performance, let me reiterate that with our 1,850 vehicles on the road that have driven 22 million miles in real operating conditions and considering everything we have achieved over the past 15 years, we believe we are in an exceptional position for continued success.

在交給Nicolas 和Richard 提供有關我們的商業營運和財務表現的更詳細見解之前，讓我重申一下，我們在路上行駛的1,850 輛汽車在實際營運條件下已行駛了2200 萬英里，並考慮到我們在過去一段時間所取得的一切成就。

Our main objectives are an effective liquidity management and achieving profitability by remaining agile and actively focused on cost control. Further, we will continue to proactively improve the quality of our vehicles and increase our field technician service coverage to maximize customer experience and uptime with our vehicles. Nicolas?

我們的主要目標是有效的流動性管理，並透過保持敏捷性和積極關注成本控制來實現盈利。此外，我們將繼續積極提高車輛品質並擴大現場技術人員服務覆蓋範圍，以最大限度地提高客戶體驗和車輛正常運行時間。尼古拉斯？

Thank you, Marc. I will start by addressing Q4 and fiscal 2023 deliveries, then discuss the order book, and conclude with an update on certain subsidy progress. Starting with deliveries, we delivered 188 vehicles in Q4, consisting of 178 school buses and 10 trucks. 107 vehicles were delivered in Canada and 81 in the US.

謝謝你，馬克。我將先討論第四季和 2023 財年的交付情況，然後討論訂單簿，最後介紹某些補貼進展的最新情況。從交貨量來看，我們在第四季度交付了 188 輛汽車，其中包括 178 輛校車和 10 輛卡車。加拿大交付了 107 輛，美國交付了 81 輛。

Our school bus deliveries in Canada were impacted by the inability to deliver under the Canadian ZETF program, for which a number of our clients are in discussions with the government to obtain satisfactory approval under the program. Furthermore, as previously explained, we experienced some delays in the first deliveries of the Lion5 trucks and the LionD school buses, which further impacted results. For fiscal 2023, we delivered 852 vehicles compared to 519 in 2022, a 64% increase on a year-over-year basis.

我們在加拿大的校車交付量受到了加拿大 ZETF 計劃無法交付的影響，我們的許多客戶正在與政府進行討論，以獲得該計劃下令人滿意的批准。此外，如前所述，我們在 Lion5 卡車和 LionD 校車的首次交付中遇到了一些延誤，這進一步影響了業績。2023 財年，我們交付了 852 輛汽車，而 2022 年為 519 輛，較去年同期成長 64%。

Now, shifting our focus to purchase orders. The order book currently stands at 2,076 vehicles, consisting of 1,791 school buses and 285 trucks, representing approximately $500 million. In addition to the challenging economic environment, the decline in the order book is in part attributable to the timing of certain subsidy programs, which are beneficial in the long term but can cause some volatility on a quarter-to-quarter basis.

現在，將我們的注意力轉移到採購訂單上。目前訂單量為 2,076 輛，其中包括 1,791 輛校車和 285 輛卡車，價值約 5 億美元。除了充滿挑戰的經濟環境之外，訂單量下降的部分原因是某些補貼計劃的實施時機，這些計劃從長遠來看是有利的，但可能會導致季度與季度之間的一些波動。

For example, EPA awarded, in January, close to $1 billion of grant funding for purchase of clean school buses, but purchase orders cannot yet be placed under the program's parameters and hence are not reflected in the order book. As previously announced, Lion was awarded a grant for 97 school buses and related charging infrastructure in this round, representing a total of $38 million for which we are working with the school districts to obtain formal purchase orders once allowed by the EPA.

例如，美國環保署 (EPA) 1 月撥款近 10 億美元用於購買清潔校車，但採購訂單尚未根據該計劃的參數下達，因此未反映在訂單中。正如先前宣布的，Lion 在這一輪中獲得了 97 輛校車和相關充電基礎設施的撥款，總額為 3800 萬美元，我們正在與學區合作，一旦獲得 EPA 的批准，即可獲得正式採購訂單。

We see significant potential for additional opportunities for Lion in connection with this round, as we estimate that 70% of units were awarded directly to school districts, financial entities, and third-party contractors. We are in dialogue with a number of these parties towards the potential deployment of Lion school buses.

我們認為 Lion 在這一輪中擁有巨大的額外機會，因為我們估計 70% 的單位直接授予學區、金融實體和第三方承包商。我們正在與一些相關方就部署獅子校車的可能性進行對話。

We are also very encouraged by customer engagement towards applications for the most recent rebate round of the EPA program, which closed on February 14. The EPA expects to award at least $500 million under this round, with results to be announced in April. Now that the applications for the EPA's latest rebate round have closed, we are hopeful to see more momentum in a number of state-level programs, including in California, Colorado, and New York, among others.

我們也對客戶參與最近一輪 EPA 計畫回扣申請的參與感到非常鼓舞，該計畫於 2 月 14 日結束。EPA 預計在這一輪融資中撥款至少 5 億美元，結果將於 4 月公佈。現在，美國環保署最新一輪回扣的申請已經結束，我們希望看到一些州級計畫的更多勢頭，包括加州、科羅拉多州和紐約州等。

On the truck side, we are particularly excited by two trucking programs from the EPA. First, the EPA's Clean Ports Program, which was launched yesterday, is expected to allocate up to $2.6 billion towards zero-emission port equipment and infrastructure, including drayage trucks. The application deadline for this program is set for May 28.

在卡車方面，我們對 EPA 的兩項卡車運輸計劃感到特別興奮。首先，EPA 昨天啟動的清潔港口計畫預計將撥款 26 億美元用於零排放港口設備和基礎設施，包括拖運卡車。該計畫的申請截止日期為5月28日。

Second, the EPA's Clean Heavy-Duty Vehicles Program, which is expected to allocate $1 billion towards the deployment of Class 6 and Class 7 clean trucks, is expected to start in early spring of 2024. With the Lion5 and Lion6 in commercial production today and with the start of commercial production of the Lion8 tractor truck scheduled for mid-2024, we believe we are very well positioned for our customers to benefit from such funding.

其次，EPA 的清潔重型車輛計畫預計將於 2024 年初春啟動，預計將撥款 10 億美元用於部署 6 級和 7 級清潔卡車。隨著 Lion5 和 Lion6 現已投入商業化生產，以及計劃於 2024 年中期開始商業化生產的 Lion8 牽引車，我們相信我們已做好充分準備，讓我們的客戶能夠從此類資金中受益。

In summary, the grants environment, combined with customers' strong appetite for electric vehicles, is very promising for the long-term, despite causing some volatility in the short-term, which we expect to persist for at least the next few months.

總之，贈款環境加上客戶對電動車的強烈需求，儘管在短期內造成了一些波動，但從長遠來看還是非常有希望的，我們預計這種波動至少會持續幾個月。

I will now turn it over to Richard to discuss our financial performance. Richard?

我現在將把它交給理查德討論我們的財務表現。理查德？

Thank you, Nicolas. I will start by commenting on Q4 results and then comment on fiscal 2023. I will then discuss our liquidity position and provide color for 2024.

謝謝你，尼古拉斯。我將首先評論第四季度的業績，然後評論 2023 財年。然後我將討論我們的流動性狀況並為 2024 年提供顏色。

Starting with Q4 performance, revenue amounted to $60.4 million, representing a 29% increase year-over-year. Despite lower than expected sales volume, we posted adjusted gross margin of 1.3%, which excludes the $9.8 million inventory write-down related to the LionA and LionM vehicles, as compared to an adjusted gross margin that was negative 10.2% for the corresponding quarter in 2022.

從第四季業績開始，營收達到 6,040 萬美元，年增 29%。儘管銷量低於預期，但我們公佈的調整後毛利率為 1.3%，其中不包括與 LionA 和 LionM 車輛相關的 980 萬美元庫存減記，而 2019 年同期調整後毛利率為負 10.2%。 。

Our SG&A expenses, which amounted to $16 million, decreased from 33% of revenue in Q4 2022 to 27% of revenue this year, reflecting our disciplined approach to cost management. Our Q4 results included an impairment of intangible assets and property, plant, and equipment of $36 million related to our decision to indefinitely delay the start of our commercial production of the LionA and LionM vehicles.

我們的 SG&A 費用為 1,600 萬美元，從 2022 年第四季佔營收的 33% 下降到今年佔營收的 27%，反映了我們嚴格的成本管理方法。我們第四季的業績包括無形資產以及財產、廠房和設備減值 3,600 萬美元，這與我們決定無限期推遲 LionA 和 LionM 車輛商業生產的開始有關。

We had a significant improvement in adjusted EBITDA, which was negative $6.3 million for the quarter, as compared to negative $13.9 million in Q4 2022, resulting from improved adjusted gross profits and decreasing costs. Q4 CapEx amounted to $13.7 million, a significant decrease as compared to $39.1 million in Q4 2022, marking the end of our growth CapEx.

由於調整後毛利提高和成本下降，我們的調整後 EBITDA 顯著改善，本季為負 630 萬美元，而 2022 年第四季為負 1,390 萬美元。第四季資本支出為 1,370 萬美元，與 2022 年第四季的 3,910 萬美元相比大幅下降，標誌著我們成長資本支出的結束。

On the development front, we continued to see a reduction in spend, as we bring new platforms in production. Additions to net intangible assets, mostly related to vehicle and battery-related development, amounted to $17.8 million, down $2.5 million, as compared to $21.3 million in Q4 2022.

在開發方面，隨著我們在生產中引入新平台，我們的支出繼續減少。無形資產淨值增加額達 1,780 萬美元，主要與車輛和電池相關開發相關，較 2022 年第四季的 2,130 萬美元減少 250 萬美元。

Now turning to fiscal 2023 performance. For fiscal 2023, revenue, which amounted to $253.5 million, increased by 81% as compared to $139.9 million in 2022. Worth mentioning, revenue generated in the US more than tripled as compared to 2022 and accounted for over a third of our revenue for the year.

現在轉向 2023 財年的業績。2023 財年的營收為 2.535 億美元，比 2022 年的 1.399 億美元成長了 81%。值得一提的是，與 2022 年相比，美國產生的收入增加了兩倍多，占我們當年收入的三分之一以上。

We achieved positive adjusted gross margins for the year, with adjusted gross profit of $4.3 million or 1.7% of revenue, as compared to an adjusted gross loss of $12.9 million or negative 9.3% of revenue in 2022. Adjusted EBITDA amounted to negative $34.3 million for the year, as compared to negative $54.8 million in 2022. This is a result of our revenue growth and effort in optimizing our cost structure.

我們今年實現了正調整毛利率，調整後毛利為 430 萬美元，佔營收的 1.7%，而 2022 年調整後毛利為 1,290 萬美元，佔營收的 9.3%。全年調整後 EBITDA 為負 3,430 萬美元，而 2022 年為負 5,480 萬美元。這是我們收入成長和優化成本結構努力的成果。

Turning to our liquidity position, we ended the year with $93 million of available liquidity, consisting of $30 million in cash and $63 million of immediate borrowing capacity on our revolver. It is important to note that inventory investment made over the last two years to achieve production ramp-up has been a significant driver of cash outflows.

談到我們的流動性狀況，我們年底擁有 9,300 萬美元的可用流動性，其中包括 3,000 萬美元的現金和 6,300 萬美元的左輪手槍即時借款能力。值得注意的是，過去兩年為實現產量成長而進行的庫存投資一直是現金流出的重要驅動因素。

With the bulk of our ramp-up occurring during the supply chain crisis, we have built significant inventory of raw material on the balance sheet. With supply chain now easing, such large inventory position is no longer required.

由於我們的產能擴張大部分發生在供應鏈危機期間，我們在資產負債表上建立了大量原料庫存。隨著供應鏈的放鬆，不再需要這麼大的庫存。

Further, we have a number of finished vehicles on hand which could be deployed rapidly, particularly in the event that certain customers obtain satisfactory approval from the ZETF. We therefore anticipate that inventory reduction will positively contribute to liquidity in 2024, with a targeted inventory reduction of $50 million to $75 million.

此外，我們手頭上有許多成品車輛可以快速部署，特別是在某些客戶獲得 ZETF 令人滿意的批准的情況下。因此，我們預計庫存減少將對 2024 年的流動性產生正面貢獻，庫存目標減少 5,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元。

Looking ahead to 2024, our focus remains on driving growth in orders and deliveries while diligently controlling costs. As previously mentioned, the ramp-up of the LionV -- the Lion5 and the Lion batteries, as well as the upcoming launch of the LionA tractor, will put short-term pressure on our growth margin, particularly in the first half of the year.

展望2024年，我們的重點仍是推動訂單和交付量的成長，同時努力控製成本。如前所述，LionV、Lion5 和 Lion 電池的成長，以及即將推出的 LionA 拖拉機，將對我們的成長利潤率帶來短期壓力，特別是在今年上半年。

We anticipate that CapEx will be lower than $10 million, consisting largely of maintenance CapEx. Similarly, vehicle and battery development spending will be reduced by approximately 30% as compared to 2023 and amount to approximately $45 million as the development of new product nears completion and vehicles are brought to market. We remain committed to tight cost management in a concerted effort to reduce working capital, particularly focusing on reducing inventory levels.

我們預計資本支出將低於 1000 萬美元，其中主要包括維護資本支出。同樣，隨著新產品開發接近完成以及車輛推向市場，車輛和電池開發支出將比 2023 年減少約 30%，達到約 4,500 萬美元。我們仍致力於嚴格的成本管理，共同努力減少營運資金，特別是專注於降低庫存水準。

Last, we will continue to monitor our liquidity requirements, including a significant reduction in our inventory, and will stay appraised of potential opportunities to strengthen our balance sheet to ensure financial resilience in the face of evolving market conditions.

最後，我們將繼續監控我們的流動性需求，包括大幅減少庫存，並將繼續評估加強資產負債表的潛在機會，以確保面對不斷變化的市場條件時的財務彈性。

In summary, while we have made significant strides in our financial performance, we remain vigilant in navigating the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead, united by our commitment to sustainable growth and financial consciousness.

總之，雖然我們在財務表現方面取得了重大進展，但我們仍然保持警惕，應對未來的挑戰和機遇，並致力於永續成長和財務意識。

Back to you, Marc.

回到你身邊，馬克。

Thank you, Richard. Before we open the line for questions, let me conclude by reiterating that while we expect the current environment to continue to result in volatile order flow and deliveries for at least the next few months, we remain very enthusiastic about our future and fully committed to leveraging all investments made over the last 15 years to reach our ultimate objective of becoming profitable and free cash flow positive. Until then, we remain fully committed to taking appropriate measures to safeguard our liquidity.

謝謝你，理查。在我們開始提問之前，讓我最後重申，雖然我們預計當前環境至少在未來幾個月內將繼續導致訂單流和交付波動，但我們仍然對未來充滿熱情，並完全致力於利用過去15 年中為實現盈利和自由現金流為正的最終目標而進行的所有投資。在此之前，我們仍然完全致力於採取適當措施來保障我們的流動性。

Thank you for your attention this morning, and let's now open the line for questions.

感謝您今天早上的關注，現在讓我們開始提問。

Operator, we will now open the line for questions. I just want to ask you to limit to two the number of questions asked to allow other participants to ask their questions. You can, of course, go back in the queue if you have any follow-up questions.

接線員，我們現在開始提問。我只是想請您將問題數量限制在兩個以內，以便其他參與者可以提問。當然，如果您有任何後續問題，您可以返回隊列。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Rupert Merer, National Bank.

謝謝。（操作員指令）Rupert Merer，國家銀行。

Hi. Good morning, everyone.

你好。大家，早安。

Good morning, Rupert.

早上好，魯伯特。

If we can start with the ZETF funding, I'm wondering. Do you have any visibility from the government on the timing for when they could release some of that ZETF funding?

我想知道我們是否可以從 ZETF 資金開始。您是否了解政府何時可以釋放部分 ZETF 資金的時間？

Yeah. Rupert, this is Marc. Let me start by saying that the Canadian government has been a great partner over the years and we all know that they are supporting electrification in Canada. And one example is that their target is to get 35% of the total medium- and heavy-duty vehicle sales by 2030 to be 35%. So that's a lot, and it's exactly aligned with what the ZETF is supposed to be doing.

是的。魯伯特，這是馬克。首先我要說的是，加拿大政府多年來一直是個很好的合作夥伴，我們都知道他們正在支持加拿大的電氣化。舉個例子，他們的目標是到2030年，中重車銷售佔總銷售量的35%，達到35%。所以這已經很多了，而且它與 ZETF 應該做的事情完全一致。

So there has been a lot of delays. I understand right now, there is a lot of ongoing dialogue with the potential customers and we're also in dialogue with the ZETF at the same time. And as you know, it's a major part of our purchase order book as well.

所以出現了很多延誤。據我了解，目前我們正在與潛在客戶進行大量對話，同時我們也在與 ZETF 進行對話。如您所知，這也是我們採購訂單的主要部分。

So, I think everybody is on the same page, and there has been a lot of volume on their end. This is what I'm getting, and there are terms negotiations as we speak. But we're very enthusiastic about the outcome of that. We feel this is obvious that this is going to go through at some point, and we're looking -- we are really looking forward to that. So we're staying tuned, we're a good partner, and we feel that we're well-listened as well.

所以，我認為每個人都在同一立場上，而且他們的觀點也很豐富。這就是我得到的，就在我們說話的時候，正在進行條款談判。但我們對這結果非常熱情。我們覺得很明顯，這將在某個時刻發生，我們正在尋找——我們真的很期待這一點。所以我們會繼續關注，我們是一個很好的合作夥伴，而且我們覺得我們也得到了很好的傾聽。

Do you believe that when they finish this process that they come up with a framework that allows for all of the funding to move forward in a fairly short order or is it going to be more of an approval of grants on a case-by-case basis?

您是否相信，當他們完成這個過程時，他們會提出一個框架，允許所有資金在相當短的時間內向前推進，還是會更多地根據具體情況批准贈款基礎？

Well, we all hope the same thing, that the grant will be in such a form that it will be very easy for the operators to apply and get their funding, and maybe that was part of the issue. So I cannot talk about the future, but I know that $2.75 billion is a lot of money to invest for them, understanding as well that transit buses are included in there. But in all the discussions we've had in the past, it was very clear that a lot of that money will go for the school buses as well. And we have yet to see that, so we're looking forward to it.

好吧，我們都希望同樣的事情，即贈款的形式將使運營商很容易申請並獲得資金，也許這就是問題的一部分。所以我不能談論未來，但我知道 27.5 億美元對他們來說是一筆很大的投資，同時也了解其中包括公車巴士。但在我們過去進行的所有討論中，很明顯，很多錢也將用於校車。我們還沒有看到這一點，所以我們很期待。

All right. Very good. Secondly, if we can talk about inventory, it's encouraging to hear that we could bring that down $50 million to $75 million. What's an appropriate amount of inventory for the company in the long run? and what are the opportunities to further bring that down maybe to more of a just-in-time model? Or if you can discuss what sort of inventory level you think you need to hold in the future, are there any critical components that absolutely you can't move to more of a just-in-time model?

好的。非常好。其次，如果我們可以談論庫存，那麼聽到我們可以將其減少 5000 萬美元至 7500 萬美元，真是令人鼓舞。長遠來看，公司的庫存量多少合適？有哪些機會可以進一步將其降低到更多的準時模式？或者，如果您可以討論您認為未來需要保持什麼樣的庫存水平，是否有任何關鍵組件絕對不能轉向更多的準時制模型？

It's Richard here. I'll take that one, Rupert. Obviously, we feel, as I said earlier, our inventory in a very challenging supply chain environment. And right now, as I mentioned earlier, we don't need to have or carry buffers that we've been carrying in the last couple of years. So right now, we are very focused on reducing inventory levels to healthier levels.

理查德在這裡。我要那個，魯伯特。顯然，正如我之前所說，我們的庫存處於非常具有挑戰性的供應鏈環境中。現在，正如我之前提到的，我們不需要擁有或攜帶過去幾年一直攜帶的緩衝區。所以現在，我們非常專注於將庫存水準降低到更健康的水平。

Hard to say what is the timing and optimal inventory in the current context, but that's partly what Marc just described. So our goal is to really monitor our order book, make sure we have the appropriate level of inventory to deliver based on our customer needs. So that's what we're focusing on.

很難說當前情況下的時機和最佳庫存是什麼，但這部分是馬克剛才描述的。因此，我們的目標是真正監控我們的訂單，確保我們有適當的庫存水平，可以根據客戶的需求進行交付。這就是我們關注的重點。

Like I said, right now, we are really focused on reducing our inventory. We mentioned $50 million to $75 million. This is obviously raw material. It's also finished goods that we could deliver quite quickly if some of these dedicated applications, in particular, are approved. So that's the short-term view at $50 million to $75 million, and we'll take it from there afterwards.

就像我說的，現在我們真正專注於減少庫存。我們提到了 5000 萬至 7500 萬美元。這顯然是原料。如果其中一些專用應用程式獲得批准，我們也可以很快交付成品。這就是 5,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元的短期觀點，我們稍後會以此為基礎。

Just a quick follow-up to that. You're now producing your own battery packs, and I know you do have some batteries and battery packs in inventory. With that, do you anticipate that you'll be running your own battery production at a reasonable level in the coming quarters or do you hold back on your own battery pack production while you work off the inventory?

只是快速跟進。你們現在正在生產自己的電池組，我知道你們確實有一些電池和電池組的庫存。因此，您是否預計在未來幾季您自己的電池生產將保持在合理的水平，或者您是否會在清理庫存時抑制自己的電池組生產？

No. We will -- we are starting to integrate our own battery packs on our vehicles, Rupert. So if you -- you're going to see some Lion5 deliveries, and they are equipped with our Lion battery and the pack. Those are the first vehicles with our battery packs.

不。我們將——我們開始將我們自己的電池組整合到我們的車輛上，魯珀特。因此，如果您將看到一些 Lion5 交付，它們配備了我們的 Lion 電池和電池組。這些是第一批配備我們電池組的車輛。

That being said, though, I mean, obviously, using the 1,000 BMW battery packs that we have in stock right now is also top of mind. And this is part of what Richard has been talking about in production as well. It's really a mix of taking down this (technical difficulty) the manufacturing in Mirabel.

話雖這麼說，但我的意思是，顯然，使用我們目前庫存的 1,000 個 BMW 電池組也是首要考慮的。這也是理查德在製作中一直在談論的一部分。這實際上是消除米拉貝爾製造（技術難度）的混合體。

Okay. Very good. I'll leave it there. Thank you.

好的。非常好。我會把它留在那裡。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, Rupert.

謝謝你，魯伯特。

Kevin Chiang, CIBC.

凱文·蔣，CIBC。

Hey. Good morning, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. Maybe I'll ask about, I guess, how you think about your sales strategy as you look to build out your vehicle book. I appreciate you guys have been generally more conservative in how you frame your backlog, your order book size versus maybe some of the other companies out there.

嘿。大家早安。感謝您提出我的問題。我想，也許我會問你在製定車輛手冊時如何考慮你的銷售策略。我很欣賞你們在如何制定積壓訂單、訂單規模方面與其他一些公司相比通常更加保守。

But it is down three quarters in a row. You have a significant amount of excess capacity. It seems like it would make sense to find a way to kind of ramp up sales here to leverage better fixed cost absorption. That seems like that could work.

但它已連續下降四分之三。你有大量的過剩產能。似乎找到一種方法來提高這裡的銷售額以更好地吸收固定成本是有意義的。這似乎可行。

And then maybe as a follow-on to that, do you need the freight recession to (technical difficulty) more open to buying some of the non-school bus vehicles you have in the market? Just wondering how much the freight recession might have impacted your dialogue over the past year, just given where the freight economy was in 2023.

然後，也許作為後續行動，您是否需要貨運衰退（技術難度）更願意購買市場上的一些非校車車輛？只是想知道，考慮到 2023 年貨運經濟的狀況，貨運衰退可能會對您過去一年的對話產生多大影響。

Hey, Kevin. Nick here. I will -- let me start by addressing -- I had trouble understanding the second part of your question, but let me start with the first part. On the order book side, obviously, the order book is a point in time and it is not reflective necessarily of really the ongoing client dialogue. And what I -- I alluded to this in the (technical difficulty) especially on the bus side, there is significant volatility caused by the timing of the subsidy program.

嘿，凱文。尼克在這裡。我會——讓我先解決——我很難理解你問題的第二部分，但讓我從第一部分開始。在訂單簿方面，顯然，訂單簿是一個時間點，它不一定反映真正正在進行的客戶對話。我在（技術難度）特別是在公車方面提到了這一點，補貼計劃的時間安排導致了顯著的波動。

When you look at it, there are unprecedented amounts being deployed towards electric school buses. Specifically, the EPA -- I mean, that is a great example -- allocated close to a $1 billion, an amount that was doubled from the initial plan, in the grant round of the second phase, if you will, of the $5 billion program that was allocated in January.

當你看到它時，你會發現電動校車的投入量是空前的。具體來說，EPA——我的意思是，這是一個很好的例子——在第二階段的50億美元撥款中，如果你願意的話，撥款近10億美元，這個數額是最初計劃的兩倍。

As we announced, there is about $38 million of units that were directly allocated to our applications for our clients, of course, and there is a number of dialogue as well at 70% of that round. Close to 2,000 vehicles are allocated to free agents. But the program does not yet allow anyone to place purchase orders, and that won't be allowed until we expect April.

正如我們所宣布的，大約有 3800 萬美元的單位直接分配給我們客戶的申請，當然，該輪的 70% 也有大量對話。近 2,000 輛車被分配給自由球員。但該計劃還不允許任何人下採購訂單，預計要到四月才會允許。

This is a great amount of money that is coming into the space, all for enthusiastic buyers of electric school buses, but they can't show in the order book just yet. At the same time, the EPA just closed on Feb 15 applications for, again, $500 million back to the voucher round this time. And this is another situation where we see a lot of client enthusiasm towards applying under the program and ultimately looking to purchase with EPA subsidy electric school buses, but not yet reflected in the order book.

對於電動校車的熱情買家來說，這是一筆巨額資金進入該領域，但目前還無法顯示在訂單中。與此同時，美國環保署 (EPA) 於 2 月 15 日剛結束了這次返還 5 億美元代金券的申請。這是另一種情況，我們看到許多客戶熱情地申請該計劃，並最終希望購買 EPA 補貼的電動校車，但尚未反映在訂單中。

Same, you look at the ZETF, right? There is clearly a lot of enthusiasm in the program. Half of the order book for us is tied in there. There is a big number of applications that we know of that the clients are making on their own and they are awaiting the outcome of that.

同樣，你看看 ZETF，對吧？顯然，該計劃充滿了熱情。我們一半的訂單都在那裡。據我們所知，客戶正在自行提出大量申請，他們正在等待結果。

And so these subsidy programs, when you take a medium-term timeframe, they are very exciting. They will drive very significant volume, we believe. But in the short term, they cause the volatility that we were discussing this morning. So things are going in the right direction, without a doubt; but there is volatility in the short-term caused by, really, the specificity of those subsidy programs.

因此，從中期來看，這些補貼計畫非常令人興奮。我們相信，它們將帶來非常大的銷售。但從短期來看，它們會導致我們今天早上討論的波動。因此，毫無疑問，事情正在朝著正確的方向發展。但實際上，這些補貼計畫的特殊性導致了短期波動。

I appreciate --

我很欣賞--

If you don't mind, Kevin. If you could you repeat the second part of your question. It wasn't clear our end.

如果你不介意的話，凱文。如果可以的話，請重複問題的第二部分。我們的結局尚不清楚。

Yeah. And so -- yeah, for sure. So if I look at some of the products you launched, like the Lion5, Lion6, those seem to be a little bit more maybe tied to the freight economy, people using those vehicles to deliver goods. Last year, in parts of 2022, we did go through and are going through a freight recession. Just wondering how much that might have impacted customer dialogue. If a shipper is facing 10%, 15% decline in volumes, are they actual -- are they at the table also talking about transitioning their fleet to electric or is that a conversation that might have gotten pushed out until the freight economy looks a little bit better?

是的。所以——是的，當然。因此，如果我看看你們推出的一些產品，例如 Lion5、Lion6，這些產品似乎更與貨運經濟有關，人們使用這些車輛來運送貨物。去年，在 2022 年的部分時間裡，我們確實經歷了並且正在經歷貨運衰退。只是想知道這可能會對客戶對話產生多大影響。如果托運人面臨 10%、15% 的貨運量下降，他們是否真的在談判桌上談論將他們的車隊轉向電動，或者這個對話可能會被推遲，直到貨運經濟看起來有點好一點？

Yeah. That's a good question. Without a doubt, we're operating in a more challenging economic environment for the purchasers of trucks -- for shippers, as you said. At the same time, there is a -- we see that clients are increasingly realizing they will need to transition to zero emission.

是的。這是個好問題。毫無疑問，正如您所說，對於卡車購買者（對於托運人）來說，我們正在一個更具挑戰性的經濟環境中運作。同時，我們看到客戶越來越意識到他們需要過渡到零排放。

The dialogue is really split, I would say, between some of the smaller operators looking to do a few handful of units to try out the product. They will benefit, of course, from some of the subsidies, particularly here in Canada. And we also have dialogue with much larger players that are looking to figure out the solution at scale. That's what I mean when I say they realize they will need to do this transition.

我想說，對話確實是分裂的，一些較小的運營商希望做一些單位來試用該產品。當然，他們將從一些補貼中受益，尤其是在加拿大。我們也與更大的參與者進行對話，他們希望找到大規模的解決方案。這就是我說他們意識到需要進行這種轉變的意思。

And certainly, during the most active years of shipping, it sounds like this dialogue was a little pushed aside because of the need to focus on current operation, maximize profitability. So we've seen a return of that dialogue. It's not a tomorrow demand, but it's a big demand that will drive the market.

當然，在航運業最活躍的年份，由於需要專注於當前營運、最大化獲利能力，這種對話聽起來有點被擱置了。所以我們看到了這種對話的回歸。這不是明天的需求，但卻是推動市場的大需求。

When you think about it, the truck -- the electric truck market is still at its total infancy. There are less than 1,500 all-electric trucks registered in North America as of December 2023. We're one of the few players that has critical scale. We're part of this dialogue with the large and the small operators. And actually, we're the fourth largest player when you look at registration. So we're encouraged by the dialogue.

想想看，卡車——電動卡車市場仍處於起步階段。截至 2023 年 12 月，北美註冊的全電動卡車不足 1,500 輛。我們是少數具有臨界規模的參與者之一。我們參與了與大型和小型業者的對話。事實上，從註冊情況來看，我們是第四大參與者。因此，我們對對話感到鼓舞。

Subsidies will help. We don't think they're as needed in the truck as they are in the school bus space, but they will help. And as I mentioned this morning, the EPA is stepping things up quite big with the $2.6 billion funding program for ports that opened yesterday and for which applications are due by the (technical difficulty) in early spring with EPA, this time for the Class 6 and 7. Obviously, the ports is for a Class 8 tractor. So, all in all, there's certainly good movement there.

補助會有幫助。我們認為卡車上對它們的需求不像校車空間那麼需要，但它們會有所幫助。正如我今天早上提到的，EPA 正在加大力度，為昨天開放的港口提供 26 億美元的資助計劃，該計劃將於早春向 EPA 提出申請（技術困難），這次是針對 6 級港口和7 .顯然，這些連接埠適用於 8 級拖拉機。所以，總而言之，那裡肯定有良好的運動。

Okay. Maybe just a clarification question on the inventory comment, the $50 million to $75 million. Was that a net number, so accounting for what I suspect would be headwinds inventory as you ramp up production or was that somewhat of a gross comment that today you're setting at $50 million to $75 million and you could take that out? But to offset -- potentially, the offset to that is as you ramp up production, that would obviously be a working capital headwind as it is -- net reduction.

好的。也許只是對庫存評論（5000 萬至 7500 萬美元）的澄清問題。這是一個淨數字嗎？但為了抵消——可能的抵消是當你提高產量時，這顯然會成為營運資本的逆風——淨減少。

No. We're really looking at a net reduction of $50 million to $75 million. Considering the growth, that's all factored in. Like, we finished the year with $250 million of inventory.

不。我們確實希望淨減少 5000 萬至 7500 萬美元。考慮到成長，這一切都被考慮在內。例如，我們年底的庫存為 2.5 億美元。

Like I said earlier, we have some finished goods there that we know are going to move in a short period of time. And then we're very focused on, again, discipline on raw material. The current context right now allows it, so we're really trying to bring parts in more of a just-in-time approach. That's going to be the focus, and $50 million to $75 million can be net.

正如我之前所說，我們那裡有一些成品，我們知道它們將在短時間內轉移。然後我們再次非常關注原材料的紀律。目前的環境允許這樣做，所以我們真的在嘗試以更多的即時方法來引入零件。這將成為焦點，淨收入可達 5,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元。

Okay. Perfect. That's very helpful. Thank you very much and best of luck in 2024.

好的。完美的。這非常有幫助。非常感謝您，祝 2024 年好運。

Thank you, Kevin.

謝謝你，凱文。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mike Shlisky, D.A. Davidson.

麥克‧史利斯基 (Mike Shlisky)，D.A.戴維森。

Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I seem to ask this every quarter, so I'll ask it again here. Do you feel like 2024 will be a year of growth for deliveries overall? When you -- and perhaps we're seeing a challenged first few months here, but do you think, net-net will be growing this year?

你好。早安.感謝您回答我的問題。我好像每個季度都會問這個問題，所以我在這裡再問一次。您認為 2024 年將是整體交付量成長的一年嗎？當你——或許我們在前幾個月看到了挑戰，但你認為今年的淨值會成長嗎？

Well, Mike -- hey, Richard speaking. There's a lot of moving pieces in 2024, but the short of it is, yes, we are aiming for a year of growth in delivery. When I say the moving pieces, obviously, half the order book is tied to the ZETF application, and so that is a big driver of our deliveries for the upcoming year.

好吧，麥克——嘿，我是理查德。2024 年有很多變化，但最重要的是，我們的目標是交付量成長的一年。當我說到移動部分時，很明顯，一半的訂單簿​​與 ZETF 應用程式相關，因此這是我們來年交付的一大推動力。

As we mentioned in the prepared remarks, we see some volatility in the next few months, again, driven by the subsidy program. But without a doubt, we're aiming for 2024 to be a growth -- a year of growth in delivery.

正如我們在準備好的發言中提到的那樣，在補貼計劃的推動下，我們再次看到未來幾個月會出現一些波動。但毫無疑問，我們的目標是 2024 年成為成長年——交付量成長的一年。

Great. I also want to ask about market share. Especially in school buses, there's been a large supplier of batteries go bankrupt recently. They supply at least one of the bus makers on the EV side. I'm curious if you, thus far, have seen some expansion in your share and expect more -- in 2024, more than you would have expected, given perhaps there's at least one company not delivering right now. Just curious whether there's been a lot of brand switching out there, in your opinion.

偉大的。我還想問一下市佔率。尤其是校車領域，最近出現了大型電池供應商破產的情況。他們至少為電動車方面的一家公車製造商供貨。我很好奇，到目前為止，您是否已經看到自己的份額有所擴大，並期望在 2024 年獲得更多份額，超出您的預期，因為也許至少有一家公司目前還沒有交付。只是好奇您認為是否有很多品牌轉換。

Yeah. I think we are -- on the market share front, we're looking to capture all the market share that we can. We -- just like I alluded to in trucks, when we think market share, we like to stick to the facts and we look at registration. And by the fact that we see we are the number one player in all electric school buses in North America -- and I'm talking specifically across Type C and D combined.

是的。我認為，在市場份額方面，我們希望盡可能佔據所有市場份額。我們——就像我在卡車方面提到的那樣，當我們考慮市場份額時，我們喜歡堅持事實，我們會專注於註冊情況。事實上，我們看到我們是北美所有電動校車中的第一名——我指的是 C 型和 D 型的組合。

We -- of course, we saw that bankruptcy as well. Are we seeing a shift in applications? Not yet. But at the same time, one of the things that I think will distinguish us is the extent to which we are delivering on the program, specifically the EPA program. We're close to 80% delivered on our allocations of the first round and we think as the program moves forward, the OEM's ability to deliver rapidly will be an important factor.

當然，我們也看到了破產。我們是否看到應用程式發生了變化？還沒有。但同時，我認為使我們與眾不同的事情之一是我們在多大程度上實現了該計劃，特別是 EPA 計劃。我們第一輪的分配已接近 80%，我們認為隨著計劃的推進，OEM 快速交付的能力將成為一個重要因素。

Okay. I'll pass it along. Thank you.

好的。我會把它傳遞下去。謝謝。

Thank you, Mike.

謝謝你，麥克。

George Gianarikas, Canaccord Genuity.

喬治‧賈納里卡斯 (George Gianarikas)，Canaccord Genuity。

Good morning, and thank you for taking my questions. I know it's a volatile environment. You mentioned some issues with allocations of orders, but I was wondering if -- you mentioned liquidity. If you could give us, in broad strokes, what you're expecting 2024 to look like from an EBITDA perspective and maybe a gross margin perspective, just so we can kind of compartmentalize what your cash needs will be throughout the year. Thank you.

早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。我知道這是一個不穩定的環境。您提到了訂單分配的一些問題，但我想知道您是否提到了流動性。如果您能大致告訴我們，從 EBITDA 角度以及毛利率角度來看，您對 2024 年的預期會是什麼樣子，這樣我們就可以將您全年的現金需求劃分。謝謝。

Hi, George. It's Richard. Right now, we don't provide any guidance. I can maybe comment on the liquidity front. We -- like I said earlier, we closed the year with $93 million -- $30 million in cash, $62 million on our revolving facility. We believe we have sufficient run rate for the year.

嗨，喬治。這是理查德。目前，我們不提供任何指導。我也許可以對流動性方面發表評論。正如我之前所說，我們以 9300 萬美元結束了這一年，其中 3000 萬美元是現金，6200 萬美元是我們的循環設施。我們相信今年我們有足夠的運行率。

Key drivers for us in terms of liquidity, obviously, we're coming towards the end of our investment cycle. This year, we're looking at CapEx that's going to be lower than $10 million. We talked about the inventory reduction plan between $50 million and $75 million.

顯然，就流動性而言，我們的主要驅動因素是我們即將結束投資週期。今年，我們預計資本支出將低於 1000 萬美元。我們討論了 5,000 萬至 7,500 萬美元的庫存削減計劃。

We continue to be very focused on overall cost control, cost reduction. SG&A, we expect the trend to continue. With the percentage of sales, I hope you saw the improvement year-over-year and that's going to continue. We have a lot of initiatives on product cost savings, so that's another focus area for us.

我們仍然非常注重整體成本控制、成本降低。SG&A，我們預計這一趨勢將持續下去。就銷售額百分比而言，我希望您看到同比的改善，並且這種情況將會持續下去。我們在節省產品成本方面採取了許多舉措，因此這是我們的另一個重點領域。

And R&D, same thing. As we introduce new products in the market, we see the R&D spend going down. We're looking at a 30% reduction this year. So those elements make us feel really comfortable with our cash position.

研發也是如此。當我們在市場上推出新產品時，我們發現研發支出正在下降。我們預計今年將減少 30%。因此，這些因素讓我們對我們的現金狀況感到非常滿意。

Hey, George. Maybe one additional comment as well. Obviously, the growth CapEx being behind us is a big, big thing. And you don't see that very often in the EV space, so I think it's great. Also, what we did this morning, letting go 100 people. Obviously, this is not the kind of thing that we want to do, but we're taking the action to make sure that we're protecting our liquidity without a doubt.

嘿，喬治。也許還有一則附加評論。顯然，我們後面的資本支出成長是一件非常非常大的事。在電動車領域這種情況並不常見，所以我認為這很棒。另外，我們今天早上做了什麼，解雇了 100 人。顯然，這不是我們想要做的事情，但我們正在採取行動，以確保我們毫無疑問地保護我們的流動性。

Thank you. And maybe as a follow-up -- the previous question was about market share. One of the larger competitors in the space has talked about expecting the order about 30 -- to win, excuse me, about 30% of orders related to, at least, round two of the EPA Clean School Bus program. Maybe, again, in broad strokes, what would be satisfactory for you in terms of just a market share win rate for those two programs? Thank you.

謝謝。也許作為後續——上一個問題是關於市場份額的。該領域較大的競爭對手之一表示，預計將獲得 30 份左右的訂單，對不起，至少要贏得約 30% 的訂單，這些訂單至少與 EPA 清潔校車計劃的第二輪相關。也許，從廣義上講，僅就這兩個計劃的市場份額贏得率而言，什麼會讓您滿意？謝謝。

Yeah. Hey. Look, we -- for us, George, expectations of winning in a program that's lottery-driven, because that's what it is, is more speculative than we're going to be here. So I'm not going to comment about specific numbers.

是的。嘿。瞧，喬治，對我們來說，在彩票驅動的項目中獲勝的期望比我們在這裡的預期更具投機性，因為事實就是如此。所以我不會評論具體數字。

I will say we are number one player in the space by registration today, by market share. Our market share has been more weighted in Canada relative to the US, and we expect to -- we're hoping to see continued improvements in the proportion of our wins under the EPA program. The dialogue with the customers is very constructive. But ultimately, we'll want to talk with purchase orders and not with these types of forward-looking estimates.

我想說，從今天的註冊人數來看，從市場份額來看，我們是該領域的第一名。相對於美國，我們在加拿大的市場份額更重要，我們希望看到我們在 EPA 計劃下的勝利比例不斷提高。與客戶的對話非常有建設性。但最終，我們希望討論的是採購訂單，而不是這些類型的前瞻性估計。

I appreciate it. Thank you.

我很感激。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Dan Levy, Barclays.

丹·利維，巴克萊銀行。

Good morning. Trevor Young on for Dan Levy. Thanks for taking the question. So looking at the order book, I can appreciate that the timing of the awards under your major bus programs are significantly impacted by the timing of, I guess, the government subsidy programs.

早安.特雷弗楊（Trevor Young）換下丹利維（Dan Levy）。感謝您提出問題。因此，請查看訂單簿，我可以意識到，主要巴士計劃下的獎勵時間很大程度上受到政府補貼計劃時間的影響。

But we are looking -- I guess we're looking for a sort of inflection in the order book. I was just curious if you could -- I know you can't guide to it. But could you quantify what we could expect as these programs -- the timing aligns? And would these jumps in order books be larger than some of the larger sequential jumps you've seen in the past?

但我們正在尋找——我想我們正在尋找訂單簿中的某種變化。我只是好奇你是否可以——我知道你無法引導它。但是，您能否量化我們對這些計劃的預期——時間一致？訂單簿中的這些跳躍是否會比您過去看到的一些較大的連續跳躍更大？

Look, could they? I guess they could, Dan. If I am -- if you look at it, essentially, again, there's a $1 billion allocated in the grant round, right, the grant -- second round of the EPA program. And as I mentioned, 70% of that is allocated to what we call free agents, meaning it's not Lion, it's not other OEMs, it's not their dealers.

看看，他們可以嗎？我想他們可以，丹。如果我——如果你再看一遍，基本上，在第二輪 EPA 計劃的撥款中分配了 10 億美元，對吧，第二輪撥款。正如我所提到的，其中 70% 分配給我們所謂的自由代理商，這意味著它不是 Lion，不是其他 OEM，也不是他們的經銷商。

That's -- so it's close to 2,000 units that are, we believe, up for grabs by everyone, including us, and we're working hard at it. And then there's a $500 million in the rebates program that just closed on Feb 14, and that will be allocated in April.

也就是說，我們相信，包括我們在內的每個人都可以獲得近 2,000 個單位，我們正在努力實現這一目標。此外，2 月 14 日剛結束的回扣計畫中有 5 億美元，將於 4 月分配。

So when you look at it, starting in April and the next few months, there will be a lot of funding that can result in purchase orders for the next few months. And so, yes, the jump could potentially be bigger than we've seen in the past.

因此，當你看到它時，從四月開始以及接下來的幾個月，將會有大量的資金可以導致接下來幾個月的採購訂單。因此，是的，跳躍可能比我們過去看到的還要大。

I also mentioned that, when these programs come out, it really is -- OEMs like us, certainly, we do make the promotion of these programs and make sure that the clients are aware. We file a lot of applications on behalf of clients. But more and more, that program gains maturity and the school districts and operators are aware of the program and file on their own and then pick an OEM.

我還提到，當這些計劃推出時，確實是——像我們這樣的原始設備製造商，當然，我們確實會推廣這些計劃並確保客戶了解。我們代表客戶提交大量申請。但該計劃越來越成熟，學區和運營商也了解該計劃並自行歸檔，然後選擇 OEM。

So there will be a lot of dollars out there dedicated to bus purchases that are up for grabs. So technically speaking, absolutely, yes, the jumps in the future could be higher in the order book. When? Obviously, it starts potentially in April and then in the subsequent months.

因此，將會有大量資金專門用於購買公共汽車，可供爭奪。所以從技術上講，絕對是的，未來訂單的跳躍可能會更高。什麼時候？顯然，它可能會在四月開始，然後在接下來的幾個月開始。

That's very helpful. Thank you. Then there's a follow-up. We've seen these reports coming out about the finalized EPA targets for light vehicles, specifically. It sounds like the emissions targets might get softened a little bit, at least through 2030. And I was just curious if there was any meaningful reads here for year-end markets. I appreciate that light vehicle is a different world, but is there any reason to think that this sentiment might translate over into your realm as well for EPA rules?

這非常有幫助。謝謝。然後是後續行動。我們已經看到這些關於 EPA 最終確定的輕型車輛目標的報告。聽起來排放目標可能會稍微軟化一點，至少到 2030 年是如此。我只是好奇這裡是否有任何關於年終市場的有意義的讀物。我知道輕型汽車是一個不同的世界，但有什麼理由認為這種情緒也可能轉化為您的領域以及 EPA 規則？

From our standpoint, we've seen no change. First of all, especially when you look in the school bus space, I don't -- I think we're past the point of convincing customers and, in general, society around the benefits of electric school buses relative to diesel for a school bus application. On top of EPA targets, really, there are state-level, provincial-level regulation that's coming into place. And so no, what's happening in the light vehicle sector hasn't impacted us.

從我們的角度來看，我們沒有看到任何變化。首先，特別是當你看看校車領域時，我不認為——我認為我們已經超越了說服客戶和整個社會關於電動校車相對於柴油校車對學校的好處的階段總線應用程序。事實上，除了美國環保署的目標之外，還有國家級、省級法規正在實施中。所以，輕型汽車領域發生的事情並沒有影響到我們。

And in the truck space, we've said it in the past. The truck space, medium-heavy duty here, is a few years behind the school bus for sure, but it's a much bigger market. As I mentioned earlier, there really is -- it's a discussion topic that has been more active with the large operators that really have these targets out there. There's regulation, there's targets as well and -- with these large companies that essentially need to figure out the solution going forward. And so, in short, Dan, no impact as it relates to the light-duty.

在卡車領域，我們過去已經說過了。這裡的中重型卡車空間肯定比校車落後幾年，但這是一個更大的市場。正如我之前提到的，確實存在——這是一個與真正擁有這些目標的大型運營商更加活躍的討論話題。有監管，也有目標——這些大公司本質上需要找出未來的解決方案。簡而言之，丹，對輕型飛機沒有影響。

And Dan. also, with respect to the greenhouse gas emissions, if you want to lower them, one of the best ways is to attack the medium- and heavy-duty trucks and buses. For every bus that you're doing, it's like taking off basically at least five cars from the street.

還有丹。另外，就溫室氣體排放而言，如果想降低排放量，最好的辦法之一就是攻擊中重型卡車和公車。對於您乘坐的每輛公共汽車，基本上相當於從街上起飛至少五輛汽車。

So that's really the best way to get to your goals of bringing down the greenhouse gas emissions. When you're looking in Canada, like the 35% target that they have for 2030 -- 2030 is tomorrow. So we do not see how this could decrease, and we really see that that will be the best way to achieve their goals. And that's exactly what we echo on the US side and in Europe as well.

因此，這確實是實現減少溫室氣體排放目標的最佳方法。當你看看加拿大時，就像他們為 2030 年設定的 35% 的目標一樣——2030 年就是明天。因此，我們不認為這種情況會如何減少，但我們確實認為這將是實現他們目標的最佳方式。這正是我們在美國和歐洲的回應。

That's really helpful. Appreciate it.

這真的很有幫助。欣賞它。

Chris Southern, B. Riley.

克里斯‧南 (Chris Southern)，B‧萊利 (B. Riley)。

Hey, guys. Good morning and thanks for taking my questions here. Would you be able to quantify the impact on the delays for the initial LionD, Lion5 vehicles in the fourth quarter there? Like, versus how much you were expecting versus the push out there, I think would be helpful.

大家好。早安，感謝您在這裡提出我的問題。您能否量化對第四季度首批 LionD、Lion5 車輛延誤的影響？就像，對比你的期望與那裡的推動，我認為會有所幫助。

Yeah. Chris, I mean, obviously, we cannot provide the exact figure, but that was significant, right? Some of it is explaining the difference between what the street was looking at and the final number that we got at 188, which was clearly below our expectations. That was a mix of that and the ZETF.

是的。克里斯，我的意思是，顯然我們無法提供確切的數字，但這很重要，對吧？其中一些解釋了街道上看到的數字與我們得到的最終數字 188 之間的差異，這顯然低於我們的預期。這是它和 ZETF 的混合體。

But for us, quality is always number one. And not easy to bring any new product to market, we see that. There's very few new EV products coming to market. And when you do that, you need to take your time.

但對我們來說，品質永遠是第一位的。我們看到，將任何新產品推向市場並不容易。上市的新電動車產品很少。當你這樣做時，你需要慢慢來。

So our goal was really to start delivering them by the end of the year. But I mean, we've had a few challenges like in terms of software updates and those kind of things, where we felt that since those will be the first deliveries, the customers deserve the best.

所以我們的目標實際上是在年底前開始交付它們。但我的意思是，我們遇到了一些挑戰，例如在軟體更新等方面，我們認為由於這些將是第一批交付，因此客戶應該得到最好的。

And so we will catch up. What we lost at the end of Q4 is going to take us two quarters to catch up, but we feel good about the quality of the product we're bringing to market. You probably saw some feedback also on some of the customers that started to receive the LionD, and it's very, very positive.

所以我們會趕上的。我們在第四季末的損失將需要兩個季度才能彌補，但我們對推向市場的產品品質感到滿意。您可能也看到了一些關於開始接收 LionD 的客戶的一些回饋，這是非常非常積極的。

Okay. Maybe just -- if we take out the ZETF and look at the backlog, how many of the remaining school -- all-electric school buses are LionD? And can you give us any sense around a breakdown of expected timing,, excluding that Canadian program that is obviously out of your control? I just wanted to get -- if we could get a better feel for other timing delays beyond that one that we're seeing here. I think you called out a little bit with the EPA for April for this past grant one, but a broader peek at the order book I think would be helpful for folks.

好的。也許只是 - 如果我們拿出 ZETF 並查看積壓的訂單，剩下的學校 - 全電動校車中有多少是 LionD？您能否告訴我們有關預期時間細目的任何信息，排除明顯超出您控制範圍的加拿大計劃？我只是想知道——除了我們在這裡看到的延遲之外，我們是否能夠更好地感受到其他時間延遲。我認為您對 EPA 4 月的撥款進行了一些呼籲，但我認為對訂單簿進行更廣泛的了解會對人們有所幫助。

Yeah. So the majority, more than half of the order book, is in the -- with the ZETF and conditional to that. The rest, Chris, is -- I'd say, still, the majority of that is in the Type C market. We have a good amount of demand for the Type B in the order book, especially for a product that we hadn't delivered yet. But the bulk of it is in the Type C. Nonetheless, we generate the most demand with the vehicle when you put it on the street, which is what we're doing now. And so we expect production of the Type D to ramp up and demand to ramp up concurrently.

是的。因此，大部分（超過一半的訂單）都在 ZETF 中，並以此為條件。克里斯，我想說的是，剩下的大部分還是在 Type C 市場。我們的訂單中對 B 型產品有大量需求，特別是對於我們尚未交付的產品。但其中大部分是 Type C。因此，我們預期 D 型的產量將會增加，需求也會同時增加。

Okay. Thanks. I'll hop in the queue here.

好的。謝謝。我會在這裡排隊。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Étienne Larochelle, Desjardins.

Étienne Larochelle，Desjardins。

Hey. Good morning and thank you for taking my question. My first question is on the headcount that you announced this quarter. I'm just curious if you could provide more color on how much an OpEx savings this could translate to and if you will incur any charges for this in the upcoming quarters.

嘿。早安，感謝您提出我的問題。我的第一個問題是關於您本季宣布的員工人數。我只是好奇您是否可以提供更多信息，說明這可以節省多少營運支出，以及您在接下來的幾個季度是否會為此產生任何費用。

Yeah. So, Étienne, good morning. The -- yeah. The headcount number is 100 people that we've let go, and most of them are on the night shift. So basically, at this point, we're temporarily eliminating the night shift. And a lot of them are manufacturing people, but some of them are overhead as well. So basically, we're reducing the overhead at the same time. So was that your question, I missed part of your -- the second part of your question.

是的。那麼，安蒂安，早安。是的。我們已經裁掉了100人，其中大部分是夜班。所以基本上，目前我們暫時取消夜班。他們中的很多人都是製造業人員，但也有一些是管理人員。所以基本上，我們同時減少了開銷。這就是你的問題，我錯過了你問題的第二部分。

Yeah. I was just curious if you could provide more color on how much an OpEx savings this could translate to and if you will incur any charges in the upcoming quarters when you get to the $150 million you previously announced back in December.

是的。我只是好奇您是否可以提供更多信息，說明這可以節省多少運營支出，以及在接下來的幾個季度，當您達到您之前在 12 月宣布的 1.5 億美元時，您是否會產生任何費用。

Yeah. Well, the $150 million, we're already benefiting from this -- I mean, there is some with -- in addition to the savings, obviously, we're making on a temporary basis -- because the goal for those employees is to go back to work as soon as we get approvals from ZETF for the delivery of our vehicles. So we still hope that this will be the case.

是的。嗯，這 1.5 億美元，我們已經從中受益了——我的意思是，除了節省開支之外，顯然我們還臨時賺到了一些——因為這些員工的目標是一旦我們獲得ZETF 車輛交付的批准，就立即回去工作。所以我們還是希望事情會是這樣。

If not, the annual saving that we're looking at with this is around USD8 million. That's the kind of saving we're looking at when you're including the payroll and obviously the other expenses related to the night shift. But the real goal is to get great news from the ZETF and bring back our people.

如果沒有，我們預計每年可節省約 800 萬美元。當您將工資以及顯然與夜班相關的其他費用包括在內時，這就是我們正在考慮的節省。但真正的目標是從 ZETF 獲得好消息並帶回我們的人員。

Got it. Thank you for the color. Maybe as a follow-up, with supply chain issues and shipping costs easing over the last couple of months, I'm just curious if you've seen a reduction in your bill of material costs.

知道了。謝謝你的顏色。也許作為後續行動，隨著過去幾個月供應鏈問題和運輸成本的緩解，我只是好奇您是否看到材料成本下降。

Well, we saw some reduction a lot because of all the initiatives we have that Richard was alluding to in the past. He was saying that we're working a lot on the bill of material and in savings. So there is some of that.

嗯，由於理查德過去提到的所有舉措，我們看到了一些減少。他說我們在材料清單和節省方面做了很多工作。所以有一些這樣的事情。

Obviously, with the amount of inventory that we have, it could take a little while as well to start seeing the benefit of those cost savings. Because we have $250 million of inventory and the real goal is obviously to use that inventory as soon as possible to get the benefit of the $50 million to $75 million inventory reduction that Richard was talking about. But this is top of mind for us to keep reducing the cost of the bill of material, and we have people working full-time on that without any compromise on quality.

顯然，考慮到我們擁有的庫存量，可能還需要一段時間才能開始看到這些成本節省的好處。因為我們有 2.5 億美元的庫存，而真正的目標顯然是盡快使用該庫存，以從理查德所說的 5000 萬至 7500 萬美元的庫存減少中獲益。但這是我們不斷降低物料清單成本的首要任務，我們有專人全職從事這方面的工作，而不會在品質上做出任何妥協。

Got it. Thank you for taking my questions. I will pass the line.

知道了。感謝您回答我的問題。我會過線。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) We have no further questions on the call at this time, so I'll hand the floor back to you.

（操作員說明）目前我們在通話中沒有其他問題，所以我將把發言權交回給您。

Thank you everyone for joining the call today. We really look forward to continuing the discussion. And feel free to contact me for any further questions you may have. Have a nice day.

感謝大家今天加入電話會議。我們真誠地期待繼續討論。如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時與我聯絡。祝你今天過得愉快。

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may now all disconnect your lines.

謝謝。今天的電話會議到此結束。現在你們都可以斷開線路了。