Lion Electric Co (LEV) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Lion Electric's Fourth Quarter and Fiscal 2022 Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Isabelle Adjahi, Vice President, Investor Relations and Sustainable Development. Please go ahead.

早上好，女士們，先生們。歡迎來到 Lion Electric 的第四季度和 2022 財年業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）作為提醒，正在錄製此電話會議。我現在想把電話轉給投資者關係和可持續發展副總裁 Isabelle Adjahi。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Lion's Fourth Quarter and Fiscal 2022 Results Conference Call. (foreign language) Today, I'm here with Marc Bedard, our CEO, Founder; and Nicolas Brunet, our EVP and CFO.

大家，早安。歡迎來到 Lion 的第四季度和 2022 財年業績電話會議。 （外語）今天，我和我們的首席執行官兼創始人 Marc Bedard 一起來到這裡；和我們的執行副總裁兼首席財務官 Nicolas Brunet。

Please note that our discussion will include estimates and other forward-looking information, and that our actual results could differ materially from those implied in those statements. We invite you to review the cautionary language in this morning's press release and in our MD&A regarding the various factors, assumptions and risks that could cause our actual results to differ materially from those implied in such forward-looking statements.

請注意，我們的討論將包括估計和其他前瞻性信息，我們的實際結果可能與這些聲明中暗示的結果存在重大差異。我們邀請您查看今天上午的新聞稿和我們的 MD&A 中關於可能導致我們的實際結果與此類前瞻性陳述中暗示的結果存在重大差異的各種因素、假設和風險的警示性語言。

With that, let me turn it over to Marc to begin. Marc?

有了這個，讓我把它交給馬克開始。馬克？

Thank you, Isabelle. Good morning, everyone. At the beginning of last year, as we were discussing our strategic objectives for 2022, we are delighted with the following specific area of focus that guide our work and investments: ramping up production at our Montreal plant, building and starting production at our Joliet plant and our battery factory and accelerating vehicle and charging infrastructure deliveries. I'm glad to report, we delivered on our plan for each of these items, while maintaining our commanding leadership in the electric school bus space.

謝謝你，伊莎貝爾。大家，早安。去年年初，當我們討論 2022 年的戰略目標時，我們很高興地看到以下指導我們工作和投資的具體重點領域：提高蒙特利爾工廠的產量，在我們的 Joliet 工廠建設並開始生產和我們的電池工廠，並加速車輛和充電基礎設施的交付。我很高興地報告，我們交付了每一項的計劃，同時保持了我們在電動校車領域的領先地位。

There are 3 main elements we will be talking about today. Number one, we continue to increase our vehicle production cadence in Q4, which translated into growing vehicle deliveries and [improving] revenue, and we expect this trend to continue in 2023.

今天我們將討論 3 個主要元素。第一，我們在第四季度繼續提高汽車生產節奏，這轉化為增加的汽車交付量和 [改善] 收入，我們預計這一趨勢將在 2023 年繼續。

Number two, we achieved significant milestones in our 2 growth projects, as we assembled our first electric school bus unit at our U.S. manufacturing plant and our first battery pack in our battery factory.

第二，我們在我們的 2 個增長項目中取得了重要的里程碑，因為我們在我們的美國製造工廠組裝了我們的第一個電動校車裝置，並在我們的電池工廠組裝了我們的第一個電池組。

And number three, while in 2023, we will continue to invest in our 2 new manufacturing factories to ramp up production capacity. We will also continue to smartly align capital spend with expected near-term demand for our vehicles and to carefully manage our liquidities. We will provide color on each of these items, before we open the line for questions.

第三，到 2023 年，我們將繼續投資我們的 2 家新製造工廠以提高產能。我們還將繼續巧妙地將資本支出與我們車輛的預期近期需求保持一致，並謹慎管理我們的流動性。在打開問題熱線之前，我們將在每個項目上提供顏色。

Let's begin with deliveries and orders. During the quarter, we delivered 174 vehicles, consisting of 139 buses and 35 trucks. This is the fifth quarter in a row of sequential growth in vehicle deliveries. In fiscal 2022, we delivered 519 vehicles, more than twice the 196 vehicles delivered in 2021.

讓我們從交貨和訂單開始。本季度，我們交付了 174 輛汽車，其中包括 139 輛公共汽車和 35 輛卡車。這是汽車交付量連續第五個季度連續增長。在 2022 財年，我們交付了 519 輛汽車，是 2021 年交付的 196 輛汽車的兩倍多。

Our PO book currently stands at 2,468 vehicles for total order value of $575 million. It includes orders for 2,167 electric school buses, including 190 from the EPA program, as school districts that were awarded grants under the program have started to place purchase orders ahead of the April 28 deadline.

我們的訂單簿目前有 2,468 輛汽車，總訂單價值為 5.75 億美元。它包括 2,167 輛電動校車的訂單，其中 190 輛來自 EPA 計劃，因為根據該計劃獲得贈款的學區已開始在 4 月 28 日截止日期之前下達採購訂單。

Speaking of the EPA Clean School Bus program. We have already started delivering electric buses funded by this program, well ahead of the October 2024 deadline. Also, as per the program rules, we expect EPA to make upfront payments to program awardees after receiving proof of a confirmed purchase order. This will have a significant positive impact on our liquidities by allowing us to invest in upfront procurement costs required to manufacture these vehicles.

說到 EPA 清潔校車計劃。我們已經開始交付由該計劃資助的電動公交車，遠早於 2024 年 10 月的最後期限。此外，根據計劃規則，我們希望 EPA 在收到已確認採購訂單的證明後向計劃獲獎者支付預付款。通過允許我們投資製造這些車輛所需的前期採購成本，這將對我們的流動性產生重大的積極影響。

Our PO book also includes orders for 301 electric trucks. And last, our Lion Energy PO book amounts to approximately $6 million, mostly for charging infrastructure and related services.

我們的採購訂單還包括 301 電動卡車的訂單。最後，我們的 Lion Energy 採購訂單總額約為 600 萬美元，主要用於充電基礎設施和相關服務。

Besides the EPA, ZETF and many other programs we discussed previously, other legislation and funding initiative continue to support the shift to the electrification of the transportation sector, which represents great news for Lion and our customers.

除了 EPA、ZETF 和我們之前討論的許多其他計劃外，其他立法和資助計劃繼續支持交通運輸行業向電氣化的轉變，這對 Lion 和我們的客戶來說是個好消息。

For example, the U.S. federal government recently published the U.S. National Blueprint for Transportation Decarbonization and signed the Global Memorandum of Understanding on zero-emission medium- and heavy-duty vehicles, which commits to 30% of medium- and heavy-duty vehicle sales being zero-emission vehicles by 2030 and 100% by 2040.

例如，美國聯邦政府近期發布了美國國家交通運輸脫碳藍圖，並簽署了零排放中重型汽車全球諒解備忘錄，承諾中重型汽車銷量的30%來自到 2030 年實現零排放車輛，到 2040 年實現 100%。

In California, the proposed 2023 budget allocated $48 billion to climate change. On the IRA front, Lion was officially approved as a qualifying manufacturer by the IRS, which means that our vehicles sold in the United States, starting January 1, 2023, are eligible for a tax credit of $40,000 per vehicle.

在加利福尼亞州，擬議的 2023 年預算撥款 480 億美元用於氣候變化。在 IRA 方面，Lion 被 IRS 正式批准為合格製造商，這意味著從 2023 年 1 月 1 日開始，我們在美國銷售的車輛有資格獲得每輛車 40,000 美元的稅收抵免。

Let me now provide an update on our supply chain. Last year, the supply chain continued to be impacted by several factors, although to a lesser extent than in 2021. As discussed previously, this has generally translated into longer lead times, increased transportation costs and ultimately higher cost of components for vehicle production. While supply chain issues are improving, we nevertheless expect continued challenges this year, which may impact our production cadence and vehicle cost.

現在讓我提供有關我們供應鏈的最新信息。去年，供應鏈繼續受到多種因素的影響，儘管影響程度低於 2021 年。如前所述，這通常轉化為更長的交貨時間、增加的運輸成本以及最終更高的汽車生產零部件成本。雖然供應鏈問題正在改善，但我們預計今年仍將面臨挑戰，這可能會影響我們的生產節奏和車輛成本。

To mitigate those supply chain impacts, we have successfully put in place several measures, which we will continue in 2023, including qualifying additional suppliers and proactively managing inventory for critical components such as batteries and motors. At the end of the quarter, we had approximately 4,700 BMW battery packs on hand. This inventory should enable us to gradually convert to Lion battery as we ramp up our own battery production, which I will address in a minute.

為了減輕這些供應鏈的影響，我們已經成功採取了幾項措施，我們將在 2023 年繼續採取這些措施，包括對更多供應商進行資格認證，並主動管理電池和電機等關鍵部件的庫存。在本季度末，我們手頭有大約 4,700 個 BMW 電池組。隨著我們提高自己的電池產量，這個庫存應該使我們能夠逐漸轉換為 Lion 電池，我將在一分鐘內解決這個問題。

As far as battery packs to be supplied by Romeo, the arbitration process is progressing. In addition, we initiated legal proceedings against Nikola Corporation on the basis that it intentionally interfered in our contractual relationship with Romeo and in our business expectancy with respect to our relationship with Romeo. As you can expect, we will refrain from commenting on this situation.

至於羅密歐將提供的電池組，仲裁程序正在進行中。此外，我們以 Nikola Corporation 故意干涉我們與 Romeo 的合同關係以及我們與 Romeo 關係的業務預期為由對 Nikola Corporation 提起法律訴訟。如您所料，我們將避免對這種情況發表評論。

Let me now talk about the development of our different vehicles. We have substantially completed the development work for the Lion8 bus, the LionD bus, the Lion5 truck and the Lion8 tractor trucks, and we expect these platforms to begin commercial production this year. Please note that the timing of the start of commercial production for the Lion8 tractor truck could be impacted by the supply of the Romeo power battery packs for the reasons I just mentioned.

現在讓我談談我們不同車輛的發展。我們已經基本完成了Lion8客車、LionD客車、Lion5卡車和Lion8牽引車的開發工作，我們預計這些平台將在今年開始商業化生產。請注意，由於我剛才提到的原因，Lion8 牽引車的商業生產開始時間可能會受到 Romeo 動力電池組供應的影響。

Also, as a reminder, our buses will be manufactured at both the Montreal and Joliet plants, while our trucks will be manufactured in Montreal for the time being, where we have ample capacity to accommodate current demand, which takes me now to an update on the Joliet plant and the battery plant.

另外，提醒一下，我們的巴士將在蒙特利爾和若利埃特工廠生產，而我們的卡車暫時將在蒙特利爾生產，我們有足夠的能力滿足當前的需求，這讓我現在更新Joliet 工廠和電池工廠。

As announced, we completed in Q4 the assembly of the first electric school bus unit at our U.S. plant and delivered our first made-in-America electric school buses while we ramp up our manufacturing capacity in Joliet. In this regard, we expect to manufacture a modest number of buses in Joliet during the first quarter, followed by a gradual increase in production throughout the year. We will continue to invest carefully in the Joliet plant this year with a goal to add an annual production capacity of 2,500 buses by the end of the year.

正如所宣布的那樣，我們在第四季度完成了美國工廠第一輛電動校車的組裝，並交付了第一輛美國製造的電動校車，同時我們提高了在喬利埃特的製造能力。在這方面，我們預計第一季度將在 Joliet 生產少量客車，然後全年逐步增加產量。今年我們將繼續謹慎投資Joliet工廠，目標是在年底前增加2,500輛客車的年產能。

As for our battery plant, following the completion of the installation of the first portion of our battery assembly line in our battery manufacturing facility, we completed in Q4 the production of our first battery pack at our own battery factory. Final certification of the first battery pack model is expected in the first half of this year, followed by a gradual production ramp-up in 2023. The first Lion batteries will serve to power the LionC and LionD school buses and the Lion5 trucks.

至於我們的電池廠，在我們的電池製造工廠完成第一部分電池組裝線的安裝後，我們在第四季度在我們自己的電池工廠完成了我們的第一個電池組的生產。第一款電池組模型預計將在今年上半年獲得最終認證，隨後將在 2023 年逐步提高產量。第一批 Lion 電池將為 LionC 和 LionD 校車以及 Lion5 卡車提供動力。

With our planned 2023 investments in the battery plant, we are targeting to reach a battery production capacity of 1.7-gigawatt hour by the end of the year. This represents capacity for approximately 5,000 vehicles in a mix of buses and trucks.

我們計劃在 2023 年對電池廠進行投資，我們的目標是到今年年底達到 1.7 吉瓦時的電池產能。這代表了大約 5,000 輛公共汽車和卡車混合車輛的容量。

As for the Innovation Center building, the shell work is now substantially completed, and this building will initially be used this year for test and certification of vehicles and batteries, for predelivery inspection of vehicles and as a warehousing space.

至於創新中心大樓，目前外殼工作已基本完成，該大樓今年將初步用於車輛和電池的測試認證、車輛交付前檢查和倉儲空間。

Let me now talk about our recently announced North American agreement with Mitsubishi and ENGS Commercial Finance, to provide financing for all electric buses and medium and heavy-duty trucks through our Lion Capital Solutions offering. This agreement will allow Lion Capital Solutions to provide our customers with financing solutions specifically designed for Lion school buses and trucks, thereby making it easier and simpler for our clients to secure the financing required for the purchase of their Lion vehicles, all of this without putting any significant pressure on Lion's balance sheet as we will leverage Mitsubushi's vehicle financing expertise and capital. This type of product offering should have a positive impact for our customers as it could eliminate or reduce upfront capital requirements for the purchase of Lion vehicles.

現在讓我談談我們最近宣布的與三菱和 ENGS Commercial Finance 達成的北美協議，通過我們的 Lion Capital Solutions 產品為所有電動巴士和中型和重型卡車提供融資。該協議將使 Lion Capital Solutions 能夠為我們的客戶提供專為 Lion 校車和卡車設計的融資解決方案，從而使我們的客戶更容易、更簡單地獲得購買其 Lion 車輛所需的融資，所有這些都無需投入Lion 的資產負債表上的任何重大壓力，因為我們將利用三菱的汽車融資專業知識和資本。這種類型的產品供應應該對我們的客戶產生積極影響，因為它可以消除或減少購買 Lion 車輛的前期資本要求。

Nicolas will now further discuss our financial performance for Q4 fiscal 2022, and he will also provide color regarding our CapEx objectives for 2023.

Nicolas 現在將進一步討論我們 2022 財年第四季度的財務業績，他還將提供有關我們 2023 年資本支出目標的顏色。

Thank you, Marc. I will start with the financial highlights of the Q4 and full year 2022 results. I will then cover the 2023 investment outlook for our growth projects and conclude with our liquidity position.

謝謝你，馬克。我將從第四季度和 2022 年全年業績的財務亮點開始。然後，我將介紹我們增長項目的 2023 年投資前景，並以我們的流動性狀況作為結尾。

During the quarter, we delivered 174 vehicles, consisting of 139 buses and 35 trucks, which translated into revenue of $46.8 million compared to $22.9 million in Q4 2022, a 104% year-over-year growth in revenue. 160 of the vehicles delivered in Q4 were delivered in Canada and 14 in the United States. This was our fifth consecutive quarter of sequential growth in vehicle delivery.

在本季度，我們交付了 174 輛汽車，包括 139 輛公共汽車和 35 輛卡車，與 2022 年第四季度的 2290 萬美元相比，收入為 4680 萬美元，同比增長 104%。第四季度交付的車輛中有 160 輛在加拿大交付，14 輛在美國交付。這是我們連續第五個季度的車輛交付連續增長。

We posted gross margin of negative 10%, mostly impacted by supply chain challenges, ongoing inflationary pressures within manufacturing costs and our conscious decision to continue to invest in plant ramp-up, which is an important part of our growth strategy and our goal to achieve long-term profitable growth. As previously explained, for the foreseeable future, gross margin should continue to reflect the investments we are making to establish manufacturing operations at our Joliet facility and the Lion campus and to ramp up production at all of our facilities. As we scale production, we expect margins to improve as fixed costs will be spread over increased numbers of units.

我們公佈的毛利率為負 10%，主要受到供應鏈挑戰、製造成本持續通脹壓力以及我們有意識地決定繼續投資工廠擴產的影響，這是我們增長戰略和實現目標的重要組成部分長期盈利增長。如前所述，在可預見的未來，毛利率應繼續反映我們為在 Joliet 工廠和 Lion 校區建立製造業務以及提高我們所有工廠的產量而進行的投資。隨著我們擴大生產規模，我們預計利潤率會提高，因為固定成本將分攤到增加的單位數量上。

SG&A amounted to $15.6 million in Q4. After removing the impact of noncash share-based compensation, SG&A amounted to $13.1 million. This is a slight decrease versus Q3 expenditure of $14.8 million, against net of noncash share-based compensation.

第四季度的 SG&A 為 1560 萬美元。剔除非現金股權補償的影響後，SG&A 達到 1310 萬美元。這比第三季度的 1,480 萬美元支出略有減少，扣除非現金股份補償。

Adjusted EBITDA was negative $13.9 million for Q4 as compared to negative $7.5 million for the same period last year and negative $15.1 million in Q3 2022. During the quarter, CapEx amounted to $39.1 million, including $18.9 million incurred for the Joliet plant and $19.6 million incurred for the Lion Campus as compared to $19.2 million during the same period last year.

調整後的 EBITDA 第四季度為負 1,390 萬美元，去年同期為負 750 萬美元，2022 年第三季度為負 1,510 萬美元。本季度，資本支出為 3,910 萬美元，其中包括 Joliet 工廠產生的 1,890 萬美元和產生的 1,960 萬美元Lion Campus，而去年同期為 1920 萬美元。

Capital expenditures for Joliet in Q4 were higher than the previously disclosed estimate of $12 million, mostly due to earlier timing of equipment construction milestones and tooling costs. Capital expenditures for the Lion Campus in Q4 were lower than the previously disclosed estimate of $35 million due to later timing of construction of the Innovation Center and due to battery plant equipment received in early 2023 as opposed to the end of 2022.

Joliet 在第四季度的資本支出高於此前披露的 1200 萬美元的估計，這主要是由於設備建設里程碑和工具成本的提前時間安排。 Lion Campus 第四季度的資本支出低於此前披露的 3500 萬美元的估計，原因是創新中心的建設時間較晚，以及電池廠設備是在 2023 年初而不是 2022 年底收到的。

For the quarter, addition to intangible assets, which mostly consists in R&D, amounted to approximately $21.3 million as compared to $9.7 million last year. Let me now make a few comments on selected 2022 full year performance items.

本季度，除了主要由研發組成的無形資產外，總計約 2130 萬美元，而去年為 970 萬美元。現在讓我對選定的2022年全年績效項目發表一些評論。

We delivered a total of 519 vehicles during the year, consisting of 409 buses and 110 trucks as compared to 196 vehicles in 2021. 471 of the 2022 deliveries took place in Canada and 48 in the United States. This translated in revenue of $139.9 million for 2022, up $82 million or 142% as compared to $57.7 million in 2021.

我們在這一年共交付了 519 輛汽車，其中包括 409 輛公共汽車和 110 輛卡車，而 2021 年為 196 輛。2022 年交付的車輛中有 471 輛發生在加拿大，48 輛發生在美國。這意味著 2022 年的收入為 1.399 億美元，與 2021 年的 5770 萬美元相比增加了 8200 萬美元或 142%。

Our gross profits were negative $12.9 million or negative 9.3% for the year and adjusted EBITDA of negative $55 million. Most of the CapEx incurred for the year related to the 2 growth projects. $72 million was incurred for the Joliet plant and $71 million, including approximately $5 million of R&D, was incurred for the Lion Campus. Finally, additions to intangible assets stood at $79 million for the year.

我們全年的毛利潤為負 1290 萬美元或負 9.3%，調整後的 EBITDA 為負 5500 萬美元。當年發生的大部分資本支出與 2 個增長項目有關。 Joliet 工廠花費了 7200 萬美元，Lion Campus 花費了 7100 萬美元，其中包括大約 500 萬美元的研發費用。最後，本年度無形資產增加額為 7900 萬美元。

Let me now spend a minute on capital investments for our growth projects in 2023. As previously signaled, we plan to further invest in CapEx activity, although at a reduced pace versus what we did in 2022. For Joliet, we expect 2023 CapEx to amount to $20 million. These investments should allow us to have the infrastructure in place for an annual production capacity of 2,500 buses by the end of the year.

現在讓我花一點時間談談我們 2023 年增長項目的資本投資。如前所述，我們計劃進一步投資於資本支出活動，儘管與我們在 2022 年所做的相比速度有所放緩。對於 Joliet，我們預計 2023 年的資本支出將達到到 2000 萬美元。這些投資將使我們能夠在年底前擁有年生產 2,500 輛公共汽車的基礎設施。

For the battery facility, we expect to incur CapEx of $23 million in 2023, with the goal of bringing annual production capacity to up to 1.7-gigawatt hours by the end of the year. In parallel, we expect to incur approximately $22 million in CapEx for the Innovation Center in 2023. We expect that approximately 55% or approximately $25 million of the $45 million in capital expenditures expected to be incurred in 2023 from the Lion Campus, will be financed through the federal and provincial loans secured for such purpose.

對於電池設施，我們預計 2023 年的資本支出將達到 2300 萬美元，目標是到年底將年產能提高到 1.7 吉瓦時。與此同時，我們預計 2023 年創新中心的資本支出約為 2200 萬美元。我們預計 Lion Campus 預計將於 2023 年發生的 4500 萬美元資本支出中的約 55% 或約 2500 萬美元將由 Lion Campus 提供資金通過為此目的獲得的聯邦和省級貸款。

Let me now say a few words on liquidity and capital resources. In Q4, we successfully closed a $50 million offering of units, with each unit consisting of a common share and a warrant to purchase a common share. We also raised $10 million under our ATM program during the quarter.

現在讓我談談流動性和資金來源。在第四季度，我們成功完成了價值 5000 萬美元的單位發行，每個單位包括普通股和購買普通股的認股權證。我們還在本季度的 ATM 計劃下籌集了 1000 萬美元。

Finally, we drew $56 million on our debt facilities, including the revolving credit facility, the government loans related to the Lion Campus and on a new credit facility with Finalta and CDPQ, which was used to refinance our previous credit facilities with Finalta.

最後，我們從我們的債務融資中提取了 5600 萬美元，包括循環信貸融資、與 Lion Campus 相關的政府貸款以及與 Finalta 和 CDPQ 的新信貸融資，該信貸融資用於為我們之前與 Finalta 的信貸融資提供再融資。

As of the end of Q4, we had a cash position of $88 million. We were also owed $10 million on the government loans for the Lion Campus for CapEx incurred in 2022. Shortly after the end of Q4,we announced the exercise of the overallotment option for the unit offering, increasing gross proceeds by $7.5 million. We also announced a sale-leaseback transaction for the battery plant building in Mirabel, raising gross proceeds of approximately $21 million. As previously mentioned, we expect that approximately 55% of the CapEx to be incurred in 2023 for the Lion Campus will be financed to the federal and provincial loans.

截至第四季度末，我們的現金頭寸為 8800 萬美元。我們還欠 2022 年 Lion Campus 資本支出的政府貸款 1000 萬美元。第四季度結束後不久，我們宣布行使單位發行的超額配售權，使總收益增加 750 萬美元。我們還宣布了米拉貝爾電池廠大樓的售後回租交易，總收益約為 2100 萬美元。如前所述，我們預計 2023 年 Lion Campus 的資本支出中約有 55% 將由聯邦和省級貸款提供資金。

At the end of the quarter, capacity of approximately $94 million remained available for issuance under our ATM program. While our balance sheet provides us with flexibility and runway. We will continue to closely monitor our liquidity in 2023 and look to seize opportunities that may become available to raise additional capital.

在本季度末，我們的 ATM 計劃下仍有約 9400 萬美元的產能可供發行。雖然我們的資產負債表為我們提供了靈活性和跑道。我們將在 2023 年繼續密切關注我們的流動性，並尋求抓住可能獲得的機會來籌集更多資金。

With that, I will pass it back to Marc for concluding remarks.

有了這個，我將把它傳回給馬克作總結髮言。

Thanks, Nicolas. Before we open the line for questions, let me conclude by saying that as we start 2023 with a good order book and our 3 manufacturing plants gradually ramping up, we have everything in place for long-term growth and profitability. Our focus is on sustaining this trend. Also, you will be able to see all of our improvements yourself, since we will proceed with the official opening of our 2 new factories this year, starting with the visit of the battery plant this spring.

謝謝，尼古拉斯。在我們開始提問之前，讓我最後說，隨著我們以良好的訂單開始 2023 年，我們的 3 家製造工廠逐漸增加，我們已準備好實現長期增長和盈利的一切。我們的重點是維持這一趨勢。此外，您將能夠親眼看到我們所有的改進，因為我們將在今年春天正式開放我們的 2 家新工廠，從參觀電池工廠開始。

Thank you for your time this morning.

謝謝你今天早上的時間。

Operator, we will now open the lines for questions. (Operator Instructions)

接線員，我們現在打開問題熱線。 （操作員說明）

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today comes from Mike Shlisky with D.A. Davidson.

（操作員說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自 D.A. 的 Mike Shlisky。戴維森。

I know you don't usually give any kind of guidance, but we're already at the last few weeks of March here. Could you give us some kind of directional or range for the production of trucks for at least the first quarter here? I'm sorry. I mean -- I said I mean trucks and buses, of course.

我知道您通常不會提供任何指導，但我們已經在 3 月的最後幾週了。你能給我們至少第一季度卡車生產的方向或範圍嗎？對不起。我的意思是——我說的當然是卡車和公共汽車。

Trucks and buses, yes. Mike, this is Marc. Thanks for your question. Yes, absolutely. I mean, we -- yes, we don't give guidance, as you just said, but it's going very well in terms of manufacturing capacity. Manufacturing capacity in Montreal, just a reminder that we have the manufacturing capacity of 1,000 units, and we're ramping up in Joliet as well. So what I can tell you is that the trend that we've seen, I'm sorry, in the last 5 quarters, keep growing. This is what we're expecting as well in 2023. So I've said it several times, I mean, it's a constant growth 1 quarter to the other, and this is exactly what we think will happen in 2023 from one quarter to the other.

卡車和公共汽車，是的。邁克，這是馬克。謝謝你的問題。是的，一點沒錯。我的意思是，我們 - 是的，正如你剛才所說，我們沒有提供指導，但它在製造能力方面進展順利。蒙特利爾的製造能力，只是提醒我們有 1,000 台的製造能力，我們也在 Joliet 增加產能。所以我可以告訴你的是，很抱歉，我們在過去 5 個季度看到的趨勢一直在增長。這也是我們對 2023 年的預期。所以我已經說過好幾次了，我的意思是，這是一個季度到另一個季度的持續增長，這正是我們認為 2023 年一個季度到另一個季度會發生的情況其他。

Okay. Okay. Another question, I've got a whole bunch, but I'll just go to the other one here. So this week, I was at Work Truck week. I saw the Lion booth. You have a lot of nice signage around the show. And as you kind of walk the show, there aren't really any -- really many other Class 6 trucks. Maybe 1 or 2 other class size. There really only really 0 Class 6 trucks of any note at the show. I'm curious, any kind of show (inaudible) do you think for your folks? And b, I guess I'm curious, why aren't we seeing a real flow of orders there, if you really can't get an easy Class 6 anywhere else? And Class 6s, in general, are in short supply on the [other] side ?

好的。好的。另一個問題，我有一大堆，但我會在這裡轉到另一個問題。所以這週，我參加了工作卡車週。我看到了獅子座。展會周圍有很多漂亮的標牌。當您走秀時，實際上並沒有——真的有很多其他 6 級卡車。也許是其他 1 或 2 個班級人數。展會上真的只有 0 輛 6 級卡車。我很好奇，您認為您的家人有什麼節目（聽不清）嗎？ b，我想我很好奇，如果您真的無法在其他任何地方獲得簡單的 6 級，為什麼我們在那裡看不到真正的訂單流？總的來說，6 級在 [另一] 側供不應求？

Yes. Well, I think we've said it right at the beginning, Mike. I mean, the Class 6 we have right now is one of a kind. I mean, this is a purpose-built electric truck like everything else we're doing, purpose-built buses or purpose-built trucks. So it's not an after talk for us. I mean that's part of the DNA we're doing.

是的。好吧，邁克，我想我們一開始就說過了。我的意思是，我們現在擁有的第 6 班是獨一無二的。我的意思是，這是一款專用電動卡車，就像我們正在做的其他所有事情一樣，專用公共汽車或專用卡車。所以這對我們來說不是事後討論。我的意思是這是我們正在做的 DNA 的一部分。

You're absolutely right. I mean this is a market where there is almost nobody else right now, the Class 6. And you've seen this with some of the partnerships that we -- the partners that we were exposing with at this show. So we feel it's a good market for us. We feel that the truck market is just at the beginning of this. And you see that also with the order book at [301] unit to us. I mean, it's only the beginning of that, and we feel that the supply chain crisis and the COVID crisis in the last couple of years had basically delayed everything by about 2 years. And so we feel very good.

你是絕對正確的。我的意思是，這是一個目前幾乎沒有其他人的市場，第 6 類。你已經通過我們的一些合作夥伴關係看到了這一點——我們在本次展會上與之合作的合作夥伴。所以我們覺得這對我們來說是一個很好的市場。我們認為卡車市場才剛剛開始。你也看到了 [301] 單位的訂單給我們。我的意思是，這只是開始，我們認為過去幾年的供應鏈危機和 COVID 危機基本上將一切推遲了大約 2 年。所以我們感覺很好。

And you -- if you walk the floor, you probably saw the number of partners that we have there and also the interest of the operators for our trucks. So that's true for the Class 6, but that's also true for the Class 8, but also for the other models, I mean, that we are launching this year. Because after all those years of working so hard on those trucks like, for example, the Lion5 and the Lion8 tractor, well, finally, I mean, we're launching them this year. And this is exciting. I mean all the operators you've seen on the floor, I mean, they want to see the Lion5. While many of them, I mean, they've seen them already. They are driving them. And the good thing about those operators, they are looking -- a lot of them, they're looking at electrifying the whole thing. So the whole fleet.

而你 - 如果你走在地板上，你可能會看到我們在那裡擁有的合作夥伴數量以及我們卡車操作員的興趣。所以這對於 Class 6 來說是正確的，但對於 Class 8 也是如此，而且對於我們今年推出的其他型號也是如此。因為在那些卡車上努力工作了這麼多年，例如 Lion5 和 Lion8 拖拉機，好吧，我的意思是，我們終於在今年推出了它們。這很令人興奮。我的意思是你在現場看到的所有操作員，我的意思是，他們想看到 Lion5。雖然他們中的許多人，我的意思是，他們已經看過了。他們正在駕駛他們。這些運營商的好處是，他們正在尋找 - 他們中的很多人正在尋找使整個事情通電的方法。所以整個艦隊。

So basically, they are looking at their operations. They have a very good understanding of the total cost of ownership. And what that means -- and they spend so much money in diesel right now and in maintenance as well that they are excited by the trucks that we have right now and the ones that are coming along.

所以基本上，他們正在研究他們的運營。他們非常了解總體擁有成本。這意味著什麼——他們現在在柴油和維護方面花費了很多錢，以至於他們對我們現在擁有的卡車和即將推出的卡車感到興奮。

So thanks for your question. I see -- I think everybody is starting to see the difference between what we're doing and some of the other incumbent OEMs have been doing, which has basically got a retrofit of their current products.

所以謝謝你的問題。我明白了 - 我認為每個人都開始看到我們正在做的事情與其他一些現有 OEM 一直在做的事情之間的區別，這些原始設備製造商基本上已經對他們當前的產品進行了改造。

Okay. Just answer the tail-part of question, the (inaudible) Work Truck week itself, how do you feel it went? What feedback do your folks and the booth give you? As far as you have customer visits, I think on order of speeds, et cetera.

好的。只需回答問題的尾部部分，即（聽不清）工作卡車周本身，您感覺如何？你的朋友和攤位給你什麼反饋？就您有客戶訪問而言，我認為是按速度等順序排列的。

I'm sorry, Mike, yes. So the Work Truck Show, now it went well. I mean in those shows, it's always like the -- well, we do it. I mean, obviously, to meet some customers, but we don't need those shows to meet with the customers. We do that already. So it's really about -- also about brand recognition and also to expose some of the equipment that the operators can put on the truck. So went very well. I mean, that's part of what we're doing. Basically on a daily basis, we keep building the brand. We keep building the relationship with all of those customers. So I think as I said earlier, I think we're just at the beginning of what we will see in the future. But this is the reason we feel this market is going to be so big at some point. This is the reason why we've reserved 3/4 of our capacity in Joliet, I mean, for trucks at some point in a few years from now.

對不起，邁克，是的。所以工作卡車展現在進展順利。我的意思是在那些節目中，它總是 - 好吧，我們這樣做了。我的意思是，很明顯，是為了見一些客戶，但我們不需要那些節目來見客戶。我們已經這樣做了。所以這真的是關於 - 也關於品牌認知度，以及展示操作員可以放在卡車上的一些設備。所以進展順利。我的意思是，這是我們正在做的事情的一部分。基本上每天，我們都在不斷打造品牌。我們不斷與所有這些客戶建立關係。所以我認為正如我之前所說，我認為我們才剛剛開始我們將看到的未來。但這就是我們認為這個市場在某個時候會變得如此之大的原因。這就是為什麼我們在 Joliet 保留了 3/4 的容量，我的意思是，在幾年後的某個時候用於卡車。

Our next question comes from Benoit Poirier with Desjardins Capital Markets.

我們的下一個問題來自 Desjardins Capital Markets 的 Benoit Poirier。

If you look -- if we look at the order book, it was pretty stagnant in Q3. Are you seeing bookings slowdown given the macro environment and higher financing costs? I mean if we look specifically for the truck venture, it has declined over the last 2 quarters. So what could explain this?

如果你看 - 如果我們看訂單，它在第三季度停滯不前。鑑於宏觀環境和更高的融資成本，您是否看到預訂放緩？我的意思是，如果我們專門關注卡車企業，它在過去兩個季度有所下降。那麼什麼可以解釋呢？

Yes. Benoit, Nick here. Good to speak to you this morning. No -- to answer your first part of your question, no, we're not seeing a decline. I mean, it's -- there's a number of factors influencing the order book. And when we look forward, obviously, the EPA program, we expect will help with the order book momentum. We always have the smaller orders with a good number of operators that we're working to gain, and there's also the bigger contracts that we're working on. So we continue to feel a bit about the order book going forward.

是的。 Benoit，這裡是 Nick。很高興今天早上和你說話。不——回答你問題的第一部分，不，我們沒有看到下降。我的意思是，有很多因素會影響訂單。當我們展望未來時，很明顯，我們預計 EPA 計劃將有助於提升訂單勢頭。我們總是在努力獲得大量運營商的小訂單，我們也在努力爭取更大的合同。因此，我們繼續對未來的訂單有所了解。

In terms of -- I think Marc addressed the question on trucks, but it's still early stage, but the momentum is building well. And obviously, what we want to announce there is orders, but we remain excited about that.

就-我認為馬克解決了卡車問題，但仍處於早期階段，但勢頭正在形成。顯然，我們想要宣布的是訂單，但我們對此仍然感到興奮。

Okay. Okay. Great color. And just on the liquidity front, you were successful to get over -- slightly over $100 million of financing in the quarter. If we look at 2023, you provided great color about Joliet and also Mirabel. What about the acquisition of intangible? And how should we look at the free cash flow burn for 2023 in light of the ramp-up in investment overall in your plants?

好的。好的。很棒的顏色。就流動性而言，你成功地度過了難關——本季度的融資略高於 1 億美元。如果我們看看 2023 年，你提供了關於 Joliet 和 Mirabel 的精彩色彩。無形資產的收購呢？鑑於你們工廠的整體投資增加，我們應該如何看待 2023 年的自由現金流消耗？

Yes. I'll take it back here, Benoit. But when you look at the overall balance sheet, we had $88 million of cash on the balance sheet, and that's as of December 31. And then right after the quarter, we have the sale leaseback of $21 million, another $7.5 million from the overallotment option on the December unit offering. We have the revolving credit facility of $200 million. There was about $7 million of capacity there at the end of the month, but -- at the end of the quarter, excuse me. But we expect the borrowing base to continue to increase as we scale.

是的。我會把它帶回這裡，Benoit。但是，當您查看整個資產負債表時，截至 12 月 31 日，我們的資產負債表上有 8800 萬美元的現金。然後在本季度之後，我們有 2100 萬美元的售後回租，另外還有 750 萬美元來自超額配售12 月單位發行的期權。我們擁有 2 億美元的循環信貸額度。本月底那裡的產能約為 700 萬美元，但是 - 在本季度末，對不起。但我們預計，隨著我們的規模擴大，借貸基礎將繼續增加。

And of course, we expect some upfront payments from the EPA for the purchase orders under that program, which will help significantly as we procure for those units. Recall that we had secured 109 of those purchase orders at the end of the quarter.

當然，我們希望 EPA 為該計劃下的採購訂單支付一些預付款，這將對我們採購這些設備有很大幫助。回想一下，我們在本季度末獲得了其中 109 份採購訂單。

The specific guide that we're giving for 2023 is really on $65 million CapEx for the growth projects. Of course, we'll need to continue to fund our operations, and there will be continued investment in R&D or in the acquisition of intangible assets. But with all that said, we feel that the balance sheet provides us with significant runway and flexibility. We will, of course, continue to explore alternatives to raise capital. We're very mindful of the market conditions, and we'll, of course, try to use, as much as possible, non-dilutive instrument. And recall, we still have $94 million remaining on the ATM. So that could be one of the tools that we have to fund our operations.

我們為 2023 年提供的具體指南實際上是用於增長項目的 6500 萬美元資本支出。當然，我們需要繼續為我們的運營提供資金，並且將繼續投資研發或收購無形資產。但話雖如此，我們認為資產負債表為我們提供了重要的跑道和靈活性。當然，我們將繼續探索籌集資金的替代方案。我們非常注意市場狀況，當然，我們會盡可能多地使用非稀釋工具。回想一下，我們的 ATM 上還有 9400 萬美元。因此，這可能是我們為運營提供資金的工具之一。

The next question comes from Chris Souther with B. Riley.

下一個問題來自 Chris Souther 和 B. Riley。

Maybe a little bit more on the EPA program, 190 purchase orders. How many of those were applications that you'd file versus some of the free agents that were out there that have filed independently? And obviously, there was a really long waitlist of the program in the first round. And can you talk a little bit about the discussions with the EPA for what they might be looking for in the next round and the structure and timing that you, guys, think might be the case for that 2023 round?

在 EPA 計劃中可能會多一點，190 個採購訂單。其中有多少是您提交的申請與一些獨立提交的自由代理人的申請？顯然，第一輪的節目候補名單真的很長。你能談談與 EPA 的討論，討論他們在下一輪中可能會尋找什麼，以及你們認為 2023 年一輪的結構和時間安排嗎？

Yes. Chris, in terms of the first part of your question, I'd say the majority of those purchase orders that were secured were from the (inaudible), but we are seeing some successes in terms of converting the free agents. So that is going well. And I think more importantly, there's significant dialogue around the free agents. So these things take time. The deadline is April 28, and we will continue to make that, of course, a key priority for the company. And that's the number one. What was the second part of the question again?

是的。克里斯，就你問題的第一部分而言，我想說獲得的大部分採購訂單來自（聽不清），但我們在轉換自由球員方面看到了一些成功。所以一切進展順利。而且我認為更重要的是，圍繞自由球員進行了重要的對話。所以這些事情需要時間。截止日期是 4 月 28 日，我們當然會繼續將其作為公司的首要任務。這是第一。問題的第二部分又是什麼？

That was about the further rounds of the...

那是關於進一步的回合......

Oh, yes, the further rounds.

哦，是的，進一步的回合。

Further rounds of the EPA.

EPA 的進一步輪次。

So there will be -- yes, yes. There will be $1 billion we expect allocated next year. We expect that part of it will be via a reimbursement program like the one that's in place today, but there could be a separate component as well. And we expect to hear more in the first half of this year in terms of timing in terms of the procedure and then the form of essentially the attribution of that $1 billion.

所以會有 - 是的，是的。我們預計明年將分配 10 億美元。我們希望其中的一部分將通過像今天這樣的報銷計劃，但也可能有一個單獨的部分。我們希望在今年上半年聽到更多有關程序時間安排的信息，然後是這 10 億美元歸屬的形式。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And maybe on the truck side, it sounds like the Romeo outcome is really going to dictate the timing for Class8, but can you talk a little bit about demand for the other vehicles here? You had a big uptick in orders in the third quarter and then it moderated a bit in the past quarter. I'm curious if you're seeing any momentum or customers that were waiting for kind of the IRA details around some of those subsidies? And what are you seeing kind of now that at the new year and some of those IRA subsidies are starting to kick in there?

知道了。好的。這很有幫助。也許在卡車方面，聽起來羅密歐的結果真的會決定 Class8 的時間，但你能談談這裡對其他車輛的需求嗎？您在第三季度的訂單大幅增加，然後在上個季度有所緩和。我很好奇您是否看到任何動力或客戶正在等待有關其中一些補貼的 IRA 詳細信息？你現在看到了什麼，在新的一年和 IRA 的一些補貼開始發揮作用？

Yes. Chris, this is Marc. The IRA has gone out, for sure. I mean 40,000 unit, I mean, is good. And as I was mentioning earlier, I mean, the TCO, I mean, this is really the tool that all the operators are using to purchase. And right now, the TCO is favorable in most of the cases. So that's great.

是的。克里斯，這是馬克。愛爾蘭共和軍已經退出了，這是肯定的。我的意思是 40,000 個單位，我的意思是，很好。正如我之前提到的，我的意思是 TCO，我的意思是，這確實是所有運營商都用來購買的工具。現在，TCO 在大多數情況下都是有利的。那太好了。

I was talking about the Lion5 earlier. There's a lot of momentum we feel around the Lion5. So obviously, we will be launching this one. This year, the same Lion5 will be used as the electric ambulance under the partnership that we have with Demers. So this is good.

我之前在談論 Lion5。我們在 Lion5 周圍感受到了很大的動力。很明顯，我們將推出這個。今年，在我們與 Demers 的合作下，同樣的 Lion5 將用作電動救護車。所以這很好。

The Lion6, as we were talking earlier, I mean, there's almost nothing else. Nobody else in the market right now. And this is a big market also. So we're expecting some good results with the Lion6. It's a matter of timing.

Lion6，正如我們之前所說，我的意思是，幾乎沒有別的了。現在市場上沒有其他人。這也是一個很大的市場。所以我們期待 Lion6 取得一些好成績。這是時間問題。

You mentioned the Lion8 tractor. This one is -- we will be launching by the end of the year. You're absolutely right. I mean this thing with Romeo, I mean, it could have an impact, though, on the launching date. So that could delay the launch of that product. But that being said, though, we have orders for the Lion8 tractor right now, and there's a lot of momentum also with the customers. So we're trying to go as fast as possible, I mean, to launch this product.

你提到了 Lion8 拖拉機。這個是——我們將在今年年底推出。你是絕對正確的。我的意思是羅密歐這件事，我的意思是，它可能會對發布日期產生影響。所以這可能會延遲該產品的發布。但話雖如此，我們現在已經收到了 Lion8 拖拉機的訂單，而且客戶也有很大的動力。所以我們正在努力盡快推出這個產品。

And we feel that adding like the full line of products of medium duty and heavy duty also makes a huge difference. Because for most of the operators, they are buying many of those models. So every time we speak to a customer, they can buy like a Lion6, a Lion8 tractor and also a Lion5. So adding the full lineup is going to be something very specific to Lion that most of the other OEMs will not be providing.

而且我們認為，添加全系列的中型和重型產品也會產生巨大的差異。因為對於大多數運營商來說，他們購買了很多這樣的機型。因此，每次我們與客戶交談時，他們都可以購買 Lion6、Lion8 拖拉機和 Lion5。因此，添加完整的陣容將是 Lion 特有的東西，而大多數其他 OEM 將不會提供。

Got it. Okay. Maybe just the last one. Would you be able to provide any update around either timing or volume you think we need to hit for positive gross profit and positive EBITDA as you're starting to scale up here?

知道了。好的。也許只是最後一個。當您開始在這裡擴大規模時，您是否能夠提供有關您認為我們需要實現正毛利潤和正 EBITDA 的時間或數量的任何更新？

Yes, I'd say, Chris, we continue to feel good about the unit level economics. Obviously, we're investing in scaling up right now, and that leads to some drag on the gross margin. As we continue to scale up, we think we're going to improve the gross margins and eventually outsource the EBITDA as well. But I won't provide a specific timing or number to this.

是的，我會說，克里斯，我們繼續對單位層面的經濟狀況感到滿意。顯然，我們現在正在投資擴大規模，這會拖累毛利率。隨著我們繼續擴大規模，我們認為我們將提高毛利率並最終將 EBITDA 外包。但我不會為此提供具體的時間或數字。

The next question comes from George Gianarikas with Cannacord Genuity.

下一個問題來自 George Gianarikas 和 Cannacord Genuity。

I'd like to ask a little bit about this, the EPA program. And obviously, we're very close to orders being concrete manifesting themselves materially and potentially in your order book. Could you help guide us understand a little bit of what your market share expectations are in terms of conversion?

我想問一下這個，EPA 計劃。顯然，我們非常接近具體的訂單，這些訂單會在您的訂單簿中實質性地和潛在地體現出來。您能否幫助我們了解您對轉化率的市場份額預期？

Well, look, I mean, we're going after all of the market here. There's a clear list of all the applicants, and it's clear to us which ones are free agents. There are some areas where you see we're having more success in certain regions. But the idea for us is to focus on the regions with critical mass and where we're ready to deploy it. So unfortunately, I can't point a specific targeted market share, but we've already started delivering some units. We've secured 190 purchase orders so far. And as I mentioned before, we think we have good momentum with the free agent. So we're looking to get as much as we can.

好吧，看，我的意思是，我們正在追逐這裡的所有市場。有一份所有申請人的清晰名單，我們很清楚哪些是自由球員。在某些領域，您會看到我們在某些地區取得了更大的成功。但我們的想法是專注於具有臨界質量的區域以及我們準備部署它的區域。所以不幸的是，我不能指出具體的目標市場份額，但我們已經開始交付一些單位。到目前為止，我們已經獲得了 190 個採購訂單。正如我之前提到的，我們認為我們與自由球員的勢頭良好。所以我們希望盡可能多地獲得。

Okay. And then switching to the commercial side. I'd like to ask a little bit about conversion there as well because the inflation reduction at incentives are out. I believe that many of your offerings are eligible. When do you expect momentum to turn there and to start manifesting itself in orders on your order book? Because I feel I understand the TCO argument is very compelling. The incentives are very compelling. But when do you think we'd start to see momentum in the P&L?

好的。然後切換到商業方面。我也想問一下那裡的轉換，因為激勵措施的通貨膨脹減少已經結束。我相信你們的許多產品都符合條件。你預計什麼時候勢頭會轉向那裡並開始在你的訂單簿上的訂單中體現出來？因為我覺得我理解 TCO 的論點非常有說服力。激勵措施非常有說服力。但是你認為我們什麼時候會開始看到損益表的勢頭？

Yes. As Marc mentioned that we're getting good traction in the discussions. And I'd say that's both discussions with the -- some fleet operators that are trying the units and are looking to eventually convert the full fleet as well as with some larger names that are thinking quite big. And there were number of parties we were speaking with a few years ago that were very enthused. And in the last couple of years, the dialogues slowed down, and we're seeing that come back in the recent months. And so it's quite promising.

是的。正如 Marc 提到的那樣，我們在討論中獲得了很好的支持。我想說的是，這既是與一些正在嘗試使用這些設備並希望最終轉換整個機隊的車隊運營商的討論，也是與一些想法相當大的大公司的討論。幾年前與我們交談過的許多政黨都非常熱情。在過去的幾年裡，對話放緩了，我們看到最近幾個月又回來了。所以這是很有前途的。

I think what's interesting about the IRA $40,000 tax credit is that it applies really broadly. And so either on its own or in combination with other programs, it's just something that helps scale quite a bit because of how broad the program is.

我認為 IRA 40,000 美元稅收抵免的有趣之處在於它適用範圍非常廣泛。因此，無論是單獨使用還是與其他程序結合使用，由於該程序的範圍廣泛，它都有助於擴大規模。

And so we certainly expect to get momentum in the truck space this year. And what we want to announce there is the purchase orders. And so obviously, stay tuned for that.

因此，我們當然希望今年在卡車領域獲得發展勢頭。我們要宣布的是採購訂單。很明顯，敬請期待。

And George, yes, also this is on the U.S. side. And this $40,000 obviously, though, is helping us move the needle. But if you take a look also on the Canadian side, there are many programs out there like the MHZEV and also the one that we have in Quebec. And those are making -- well, those will make, in our opinion, we feel a big difference as well.

喬治，是的，這也是在美國方面。不過，這 40,000 美元顯然正在幫助我們取得進展。但如果你也看看加拿大方面，那裡有很多項目，比如 MHZEV，還有我們在魁北克的項目。而那些正在——好吧，在我們看來，這些將使我們也感受到很大的不同。

So there are that type of money right now. But there's also some other programs on the U.S. side as well like HVIP program. So there's like local money in many places. And this is where we feel like that's what we're doing, like the Lion ecosystem with the Lion grants, it's really easy because it's not easy to manage through all the money available right now. And this is one thing that we feel we're doing well with our customers.

所以現在有這種錢。但是美國方面也有一些其他的項目，比如 HVIP 項目。所以很多地方都有當地的錢。這就是我們覺得這就是我們正在做的事情，就像 Lion 生態系統和 Lion 贈款一樣，這真的很容易，因為用現在所有可用的資金來管理並不容易。這是我們認為我們與客戶做得很好的一件事。

But many of those programs, I mean, just started to apply. So -- well, we spoke about the EPA obviously on the school bus side, been waiting for a couple of years, and now we'll see the result of that. But we feel the same thing on the truck side as well. So there are some subsidies that just came available to the customers. So some of that, let's say, new money is something new for the operators, but we're very up-to-date on all of that, and we're helping them.

但我的意思是，其中許多項目才剛剛開始申請。所以 - 好吧，我們顯然在校車方面談到了 EPA，已經等待了幾年，現在我們將看到結果。但我們在卡車方面也有同樣的感覺。所以有一些補貼剛剛提供給客戶。所以其中一些，比方說，新資金對運營商來說是新事物，但我們對所有這些都非常了解，我們正在幫助他們。

But we feel that's obviously going to help because the upfront cost is always a challenge. I mean, when you're selling electric vehicles, I mean, that's part of the challenge, and that's one of the reason we have this agreement with Mitsubishi and ENGS as well because we feel that they can -- they need to finance their product. And this Lion Capital Solutions we feel will really help us move the needle as well.

但我們認為這顯然會有所幫助，因為前期成本始終是一個挑戰。我的意思是，當你銷售電動汽車時，我的意思是，這是挑戰的一部分，這也是我們與三菱和 ENGS 達成這項協議的原因之一，因為我們認為他們可以——他們需要為他們的產品融資.我們認為這個 Lion Capital Solutions 也將真正幫助我們取得進展。

So it sounds to me like you're saying that some of the bottlenecks are really red tape as opposed to anything else at this point in time just because the programs are new and people are still working through the math and the paperwork, so to speak.

所以在我看來你是在說一些瓶頸確實是繁文縟節而不是此時此刻的任何其他事情只是因為這些程序是新的而且人們仍在通過數學和文書工作來工作，可以這麼說.

Well, there's -- yes, there's a little bit of that, but there's also -- I mean that's a change. I mean, we've always said it, and we can see the difference between the truck business and the bus business right now. We started selling the buses in 2016. And now when we're selling buses, I mean, question back then is that is this reliable? Is it possible to make a living? I mean, with those drama with those vehicles. And now, I mean that question, I mean, doesn't exist anymore.

好吧，有——是的，有一點，但也有——我的意思是這是一個變化。我的意思是，我們一直這麼說，我們現在可以看到卡車業務和公共汽車業務之間的區別。我們從 2016 年開始銷售巴士。現在當我們銷售巴士時，我的意思是，當時的問題是這可靠嗎？有可能謀生嗎？我的意思是，那些車輛的戲劇。現在，我的意思是那個問題，我的意思是，不存在了。

And the people, in most of the regions now, they're going full electric. We feel the same thing will happen on the truck side, but that will not happen like just tomorrow. I mean those truck operators, they're making the calculation with us. They're trying the product, and we feel that they will be purchasing a, let's say, modest number of units to start with, a little bit like we saw on the school side. And after that, I mean, they will go with big orders. But this is what we're doing now with the truck operators.

現在大部分地區的人們都在使用全電動汽車。我們覺得卡車方面也會發生同樣的事情，但不會像明天那樣發生。我的意思是那些卡車司機，他們正在和我們一起計算。他們正在試用該產品，我們認為他們將首先購買數量不多的產品，有點像我們在學校看到的那樣。在那之後，我的意思是，他們將接到大訂單。但這就是我們現在正在與卡車操作員一起做的事情。

And obviously, this money that we can use to lower the upfront cost is really going to help. I mean it's helping the TCO. It's helping them with everything. It's helping them making those decisions, yes.

顯然，我們可以用來降低前期成本的這筆錢確實會有所幫助。我的意思是它有助於降低 TCO。它正在幫助他們解決所有問題。是的，它正在幫助他們做出這些決定。

Our next question comes from Kevin Chiang with CIBC.

我們的下一個問題來自 CIBC 的 Kevin Chiang。

Maybe you could speak to how you're ramping up labor here. You've provided great color on where Joliet is going to be and where the factory is going to be in terms of production capabilities. I guess how is your ability to find headcount here in order to match your production targets, I guess, over the next couple of years here? And maybe if you could also comment on what turnover looks like today maybe versus a couple of years ago within your current facilities?

也許你可以談談你是如何在這裡增加勞動力的。你已經很好地說明了 Joliet 的發展方向以及工廠在生產能力方面的發展方向。我想你在這裡找到員工人數以符合你的生產目標的能力如何，我想，在接下來的幾年裡？也許您也可以評論一下您當前設施中今天的營業額與幾年前相比如何？

Yes. Kevin, this is Marc. So I'm talking about the Montreal factory to start with. The manufacturing capacity for buses is 1,000 units. We add the equipment, and we have the people to manufacture those units. So we're -- we have a good pace right now. And the supply chain has been an issue. And as I said just earlier, I mean, it will remain an issue probably for next year, maybe in the next 18 months. But we're able to navigate through that. You saw the Q4 results, and you heard in my comments about the trend that we're going through.

是的。凱文，這是馬克。所以我首先要談論的是蒙特利爾工廠。客車產能為1,000輛。我們增加了設備，我們有製造這些裝置的人員。所以我們 - 我們現在的步伐很好。供應鏈一直是個問題。正如我剛才所說，我的意思是，它可能會在明年，也許在接下來的 18 個月內仍然是一個問題。但我們能夠通過它進行導航。你看到了第四季度的結果，你在我的評論中聽到了我們正在經歷的趨勢。

So is labor a challenge? Absolutely. I mean, are we doing fine? Yes. We do have the people we need on the bus side. On the truck side, we do have the equipment we need to manufacture the 1,500 units a year, but we are ramping up the labor as need be. Because obviously, the -- well, you saw the order book at 300 units. And also, we need to match this with the timing of the launch of the new products.

那麼勞動力是一個挑戰嗎？絕對地。我的意思是，我們過得好嗎？是的。我們在公共汽車方面確實有我們需要的人。在卡車方面，我們確實擁有每年製造 1,500 輛卡車所需的設備，但我們正在根據需要增加勞動力。因為很明顯，你看到了 300 個單位的訂單。而且，我們需要將其與新產品的發佈時間相匹配。

So we don't see a specific challenge or with respect to having the right labor on the truck side in Montreal.

因此，我們沒有看到具體的挑戰或關於在蒙特利爾的卡車方面擁有合適的勞動力。

Right now, let me speak about Joliet. In Joliet, we're doing fine. We have about over 100 people right now. And we've invested. And if you -- in the CapEx that Nick was mentioning earlier, the manufacturing capacity we will have at the end of this year will be 2,500 buses. So our decision with respect to the trucks is remaining the same. We will not start investing in more truck capacity, I mean, on a short-term basis because we have manufacturing capacity of 1,500 units on -- at the Montreal factory. So right now, we're ramping up the labor in Joliet as need be, but we have over 100 people right now. And we're doing fine. We're doing fine.

現在，讓我談談朱麗葉。在 Joliet，我們做得很好。我們現在大約有 100 多人。我們已經投資了。如果你 - 在尼克之前提到的資本支出中，我們在今年年底將擁有的製造能力將達到 2,500 輛公共汽車。因此，我們對卡車的決定保持不變。我們不會開始投資更多的卡車產能，我的意思是，在短期內，因為我們在蒙特利爾工廠擁有 1,500 輛的製造能力。所以現在，我們正在根據需要增加 Joliet 的勞動力，但我們現在有 100 多人。我們做得很好。我們做得很好。

And as I said earlier, I mean, we will be doing a modest number of vehicles in Q1, and we will ramping up -- we will be ramping up the output in Joliet throughout 2023. So that's great. We started manufacturing in 2022, and this is going to be a constant ramp-up. So you're going to see that in our results, I mean, for the whole year, but this is exactly what we're expecting. And you can expect this number to go higher than -- the over 100 that we have right now. But we -- it's always a challenge to recruit the right people, but we are able to hire the people that we need right now in both countries.

正如我之前所說，我的意思是，我們將在第一季度生產少量車輛，並且我們會增加——我們將在整個 2023 年增加 Joliet 的產量。這很好。我們於 2022 年開始製造，這將是一個持續的增長。所以你會在我們的結果中看到這一點，我的意思是，全年，但這正是我們所期待的。你可以預期這個數字會高於——我們現在擁有的 100 多個。但是我們 - 招募合適的人總是一個挑戰，但我們能夠在這兩個國家僱用我們現在需要的人。

That's excellent. Maybe my second question. The vehicle order book, almost 2,500 vehicles. Obviously, some of these orders came in during various points in the cycle in terms of supply chain issues, commodity, cost inflation. And I'm just wondering how you protect the gross margin here as you deliver into that order book? Do you have a -- is there an inflation adjustment factor or some sort of indexing? So at the time of delivery or when you put this vehicle into the production line that you get made whole on maybe unexpected costs that may have occurred over the past year or 2? Or are these like fixed price contracts where you essentially have to manage the cost and the price lever is essentially fixed?

那太好了。也許我的第二個問題。車輛訂單，將近 2,500 輛。顯然，其中一些訂單是在供應鏈問題、大宗商品、成本膨脹等周期的不同時間點收到的。我只是想知道當你交付訂單簿時，你如何保護這裡的毛利率？你有——有通貨膨脹調整因素或某種指數嗎？因此，在交付時或當您將這輛車投入生產線時，您可能會因過去一兩年可能發生的意外成本而整車？還是這些類似於固定價格合同，您基本上必須管理成本並且價格槓桿基本上是固定的？

Kevin, Nick here. To answer your question there, yes, the purchase orders on vast minority were at a fixed price. We have, for sure, seen some inflation in the bill of materials over the last year or 18 months, and that's reflected in the gross margin that we're presenting today. We continue to think that the model scales really well. So the way to protect is obviously to start with a unit level economics that works well, and we think that's the case.

凱文，尼克在這裡。要在那裡回答你的問題，是的，絕大多數的採購訂單都是固定價格。可以肯定的是，在過去一年或 18 個月裡，我們看到材料清單出現了一些通貨膨脹，這反映在我們今天展示的毛利率中。我們仍然認為該模型的擴展性非常好。因此，保護的方法顯然是從運作良好的單元級經濟學開始，我們認為情況就是這樣。

That said, you've heard us in the previous quarters talk about some price increases that we rolled out. They are relatively modest price increases, and we're going to gradually start seeing those through the P&L. And because of our direct sales model, we feel that we're quite nimble in being able to implement those price increases. But the bottom line, it's really starting with a unit level economic that works well and that scales well. And we think that's the case today still with the figures in the order book.

也就是說，您在前幾個季度已經聽到我們談論我們推出的一些價格上漲。它們是相對適度的價格上漲，我們將逐漸開始通過損益表看到這些。而且由於我們的直銷模式，我們覺得我們能夠非常靈活地實施這些提價。但最重要的是，它實際上是從運行良好且規模化的單位級經濟開始的。我們認為今天訂單簿中的數字仍然是這種情況。

I know you're not going to give me the number because I know someone tried to ask it earlier, but maybe just from a qualitative perspective then, do you think the inflation you've seen over the past couple of years here, and maybe some of this is transient over time, but whatever is structural? Do you think that materially changed what were your thoughts of breakeven unit number was versus what you -- today versus maybe what you thought a couple of years ago? Or has inflation been pretty manageable, and that breakeven target is still pretty much the same?

我知道你不會給我這個數字，因為我知道有人早些時候想問過，但也許只是從定性的角度來看，你認為過去幾年在這裡看到的通貨膨脹，也許隨著時間的推移，其中一些是短暫的，但結構性的是什麼？您認為這是否實質性地改變了您對盈虧平衡單位數量的看法與您今天的想法與您幾年前的想法相比？還是通貨膨脹非常可控，盈虧平衡目標仍然幾乎相同？

Yes. For sure, it has an impact. But I'd say scale and unit mix will have -- are more important than just the inflationary pressure. And as I mentioned, going forward, when we think longer term, the price adjustments will sort of reset that. Recall that we've always said that our objective is to bring the price to our customers down over time. For sure, inflation takes us in a different direction in the very short term. The objective remains that in the longer term. What it does cause is certainly a delay in price reductions for us.

是的。可以肯定的是，它有影響。但我想說規模和單位組合將比通脹壓力更重要。正如我提到的，展望未來，當我們考慮更長期的時候，價格調整將在某種程度上重置它。回想一下，我們一直說我們的目標是隨著時間的推移為客戶降低價格。可以肯定的是，通貨膨脹在短期內會讓我們走向不同的方向。從長遠來看，目標仍然如此。它確實導致我們延遲降價。

Kevin, also keep in mind that the batteries that we're using right now, like the BMW batteries, I mean we had a fixed [race]. And we have 4,700 of those in stock as we speak. So this has an impact of about -- the batteries account for, let's say, 30% to 40% of the bill of material of an EV. So this is very significant.

凱文，還要記住我們現在使用的電池，比如寶馬電池，我的意思是我們有一個固定的[比賽]。就在我們說話的時候，我們有 4,700 個庫存。所以這會產生影響——比方說，電池佔電動汽車材料清單的 30% 到 40%。所以這是非常有意義的。

And also, we're very pleased by the investments that we've made in the battery factory. The battery factory, I mean, this is going to make such a huge difference in terms of costing, I mean, at some point. Because obviously, we're shaving cost. I mean, when we're comparing to the others. So we talked earlier about all the advantages of adding our own battery factory in terms of cooling technology and all of that and better efficiency in all of this, but also better costing, and this makes a huge difference. And this is something we're totally controlling through this vertical integration.

而且，我們對我們在電池工廠的投資感到非常高興。電池工廠，我的意思是，這將在成本方面產生如此巨大的差異，我的意思是，在某些時候。因為很明顯，我們正在削減成本。我的意思是，當我們與其他人進行比較時。所以我們之前談到了在冷卻技術和所有這些方面增加我們自己的電池工廠的所有優勢，以及所有這些方面的更高效率，還有更好的成本，這產生了巨大的差異。這是我們通過垂直整合完全控制的事情。

So right now, I mean, for 2023, it's going to be mostly the BMW batteries that we will be using. And this cost has not really changed. So that's a big piece of our bill of material, and this is something that really helped us manage through this inflation.

所以現在，我的意思是，到 2023 年，我們將主要使用寶馬電池。而這個成本並沒有真正改變。所以這是我們材料清單的很大一部分，這確實幫助我們度過了這次通貨膨脹。

Those are great points. And best of luck in 2023 here.

這些都是很好的觀點。祝你 2023 年在這裡好運。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The next question comes from Dan Levy with Barclays.

下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的 Dan Levy。

I just want to go back to your comments on the Joliet ramp and plans to get to a 2,500 annualized capacity by the end of the year. Maybe you can just talk about some of the gating factors that are required to be met to achieve that capacity? And then maybe you could give us a little more color of how we think about actual -- your run rate of production as that capacity is being unlocked.

我只想回到你對 Joliet 坡道的評論，併計劃在年底前達到 2,500 輛的年產能。也許您可以談談實現該容量所需滿足的一些門控因素？然後也許你可以給我們更多關於我們如何看待實際的顏色——你的生產率隨著產能的釋放而增加。

Yes. So yes, in Joliet, what we've been doing -- and we'll do the official opening within the next few months, so you'll be able to see that yourself as well. We have more working stations than we have at the Montreal factory. So basically, the goal in a few years from now will be to have the capacity of 5,000 buses. And at the end of this year, it's going to be 2,500 buses. So those structure of what we're doing now with the number of working stations, which is about 70 working stations in Joliet has been planned for this kind of manufacturing capacity. So it's a little bit less labor intensive. We've invested a little bit more in automation as well. But this was the plan, but good news, though, is that by the end of this year, with the CapEx investments that we still need to do this year to get there, after the end of 2023, when we're looking at the battery factory at the 1.7-gigawatt hour, when we're looking at the 2,500 units in Joliet, I mean, there, we're almost done with CapEx investment. I mean those plants -- and the same thing in Montreal, we're already done. So we're kind of done.

是的。所以是的，在 Joliet，我們一直在做的——我們將在接下來的幾個月內正式開幕，所以你也能親眼看到。我們的工作站比蒙特利爾工廠的工作站還多。所以基本上，幾年後的目標將是擁有 5,000 輛公交車的容量。到今年年底，將有 2,500 輛公交車。所以我們現在正在做的那些結構與工作站的數量有關，在 Joliet 大約有 70 個工作站，已經計劃用於這種製造能力。所以它的勞動強度要小一些。我們也在自動化方面投入了更多資金。但這是計劃，但好消息是，到今年年底，我們今年仍需要進行資本支出投資才能實現目標，在 2023 年底之後，我們正在研究1.7 吉瓦時的電池工廠，當我們查看 Joliet 的 2,500 個單元時，我的意思是，在那裡，我們幾乎完成了資本支出投資。我的意思是那些工廠——在蒙特利爾也有同樣的事情，我們已經完成了。所以我們有點完成了。

I mean, this is a big year 2023 for us because this is really the year where we're managing those 3 manufacturing plants. And 1 of them, I mean, is already scaled up on -- basically on the school buses. And the other 2 plants, I mean, we're ramping up. But they are there. We have the people on site. A lot of the equipment are already there. So it's great. I mean this is -- 2023 is really a big year of, let's say, kind of turning point for Lion.

我的意思是，2023 年對我們來說是重要的一年，因為今年確實是我們管理這 3 家製造工廠的一年。其中 1 個，我的意思是，已經擴大規模——基本上是在校車上。而其他 2 家工廠，我的意思是，我們正在增加。但他們在那裡。我們有現場人員。很多設備已經在那裡了。所以這很棒。我的意思是，2023 年對於 Lion 來說確實是重要的一年，可以說是一個轉折點。

So basically, by the end of this year, if we hire the labor because we feel that we need to do the 2,500 units, well then, this will be on -- I think you were asking the manufacturing pace. So it's basically like 50 units a week that we will be able to do if we decide to hire the labor in Joliet. But you'll see that by yourself. I mean the equipment will be there. So the equipment will be there. And after that, to go from 2,500 to 5,000, the amount of CapEx needed is absolutely not the same that the amount of CapEx it took to get to 2,500. So it's a lot more modest than anything we've been spending in the past. So it will be kind of, let's say, almost easy to double the manufacturing capacity at some point. And we do not expect we will need to do that before probably a couple of years after that. But we are ready to take the market by storm and be even bigger than we are right now when the timing will be right.

所以基本上，到今年年底，如果我們僱用勞動力是因為我們覺得我們需要做 2,500 個單位，那麼，這將是 - 我想你問的是製造速度。因此，如果我們決定在 Joliet 僱用勞動力，基本上每周可以生產 50 個單位。但是你會自己看到的。我的意思是設備會在那裡。所以設備會在那裡。在那之後，從 2,500 增加到 5,000，所需的資本支出絕對不同於達到 2,500 所需的資本支出。所以它比我們過去花費的任何東西都要溫和得多。因此，可以說，在某個時候將製造能力翻一番幾乎很容易。並且我們不希望我們需要在那之前可能幾年之後這樣做。但我們已準備好席捲市場，並在時機成熟時變得比現在更大。

So just to interpret, it sounds like to unlock further growth, there's not a lot of additional spend required, meaning there's not sort of an underlying desire to manage expenses and to limit volume growth. The heavy spending is done now?

所以只是為了解釋，這聽起來像是釋放了進一步的增長，不需要很多額外的支出，這意味著沒有管理費用和限制數量增長的潛在願望。大筆開支現在完成了嗎？

Well, I mean, we're very carefully managing the spend. I mean liquidity, I mean, is top of mind for us, and we're making sure we're aligning the order book, I mean, with our spending. I mean, no doubt. And that's the reason we've decided to go to 1.7-gigawatt hour at the battery factory, and same thing with respect to the CapEx that we're investing in Joliet. So yes, we're being very, very careful about that.

好吧，我的意思是，我們非常謹慎地管理支出。我的意思是流動性，我的意思是，對我們來說是最重要的，我們正在確保我們正在調整訂單簿，我的意思是，我們的支出。我的意思是，毫無疑問。這就是我們決定在電池工廠達到 1.7 吉瓦時的原因，我們在 Joliet 投資的資本支出也是如此。所以是的，我們對此非常非常小心。

That being said, though, I mean going from 2,500 in Joliet to 5,000 units is a very minimal, let's say, spending if we compare to everything we've been spending so far. Because everything is in place to get to 5,000, but we will carefully manage.

儘管如此，我的意思是從 Joliet 的 2,500 台增加到 5,000 台是非常小的，比方說，如果我們與迄今為止的所有支出進行比較的話。因為萬事俱備到5000，但我們會用心經營。

And when we're saying then like going from 2,500 to 5,000, doesn't mean that we have to go from 2,500 to 5,000. I mean they are steps that we will be taking through ramping up. So if we need to go higher than the 2,500, because we're having a lot of success in getting all of those orders, we will be able to ramp up carefully in the CapEx spend. So CapEx and all those investments are always top of mind in everything we're doing.

當我們說從 2,500 到 5,000 時，並不意味著我們必須從 2,500 到 5,000。我的意思是它們是我們將通過加速採取的步驟。因此，如果我們需要高於 2,500，因為我們在獲得所有這些訂單方面取得了很大成功，我們將能夠謹慎地增加資本支出。因此，資本支出和所有這些投資始終是我們所做的一切的首要考慮。

Great. And then just as a follow-up, you were talking about supply constraints still as an issue. Maybe you could just provide a little more color on those underlying constraints. And you said you're taking action to mitigate that. What are those actions?

偉大的。然後作為後續行動，你談到供應限制仍然是一個問題。也許您可以為這些基本約束提供更多顏色。你說你正在採取行動來減輕這種情況。那些動作是什麼？

I'm sorry, I didn't get that...

對不起，我沒聽懂...

The supply chain?

供應鏈？

Oh, the supply chain? Yes, well, that's exactly what we've been doing in the last couple of years, Dan. I mean, we -- one of the things we've been doing is the supplier redundancy, and it's going very well. And also it's kind of -- it's almost natural that supplier redundancy, especially with what we're doing now, like we're the only OEM on the school bus side with factories on both sides of the border. So we're having suppliers on the U.S. side. We're having suppliers on the Canadian side, but there's nothing that prevent us from using one supplier in one country and using it on the other side. I mean, if needs be. So that's one thing we're doing.

哦，供應鏈？是的，丹，這正是我們過去幾年一直在做的事情。我的意思是，我們 - 我們一直在做的事情之一是供應商冗餘，而且進展順利。而且它有點 - 供應商冗餘幾乎是自然的，特別是我們現在正在做的事情，就像我們是校車方面唯一一家在邊界兩側都有工廠的原始設備製造商。所以我們在美國有供應商。我們在加拿大有供應商，但沒有什麼能阻止我們在一個國家使用一個供應商並在另一側使用它。我的意思是，如果需要的話。所以這是我們正在做的一件事。

At some point also what we did, a little bit like -- I don't like to say overstocking, but this is a little bit what we've been doing in the past. And I think it served us well. And one good example is the number of batteries we have now. 4,700 batteries, I mean, is great and the price also was fine. We did the same thing with some critical components as well. So that's what we've been doing. Are we like out of the one on all of those supply chain issues? Absolutely not. Can we manage and navigate through that? Yes. And we feel we're getting better and better from one quarter to the other.

在某些時候我們也做了一些事情，有點像——我不想說庫存過多，但這就是我們過去一直在做的事情。我認為這對我們很有幫助。一個很好的例子就是我們現在擁有的電池數量。 4,700 塊電池，我的意思是，很棒而且價格也不錯。我們也對一些關鍵組件做了同樣的事情。這就是我們一直在做的。我們是否喜歡所有這些供應鏈問題？絕對不。我們可以管理和導航嗎？是的。而且我們覺得我們從一個季度到另一個季度變得越來越好。

Honestly, I feel that the worst is behind us, but we're very well equipped for any other headwinds in this regard going forward. And we feel there will be headwinds in the supply chain, supply chain crisis. I mean, obviously, we've been talking about the war also that mean impact -- that's been impacting all of us. So there's a war. There was a supply chain crisis for a lot of other reasons, including COVID and all of that. But I feel good that we're well equipped to protect Lion and our customers in those difficult times.

老實說，我覺得最壞的情況已經過去，但我們已經做好充分準備應對未來這方面的任何其他不利因素。我們認為供應鏈會出現逆風，供應鏈危機。我的意思是，很明顯，我們一直在談論戰爭也意味著影響——它一直在影響我們所有人。所以有一場戰爭。由於許多其他原因，包括 COVID 和所有其他原因，出現了供應鏈危機。但我感覺很好，我們有能力在困難時期保護 Lion 和我們的客戶。

The next question comes from Rupert Merer with National Bank.

下一個問題來自國家銀行的 Rupert Merer。

So on the call so far, we talked about supply chain, and it does seem to be limiting your production run rate, and I think you mentioned these issues could be around for another 18 months or so. But in Joliet, you believe you could have capacity to do 50 units a week by the end of the year, if you hire enough people. So it sounds like you think the supply chain may not be a limitation for Joliet by the end of the year. Is that a fair comment?

所以到目前為止，在電話會議上，我們談到了供應鏈，它似乎確實限制了你的生產運行率，我想你提到這些問題可能還會持續 18 個月左右。但在 Joliet，你相信如果你僱用足夠多的人，到年底你可以每週生產 50 個單位。所以聽起來你認為到今年年底供應鏈可能不會成為 Joliet 的限制。這是一個公平的評論嗎？

Well, we feel that it's under control. It's more and more under control, Rupert. Let's put it this way. If you -- the discussions we had like a year ago, I mean, the tone was totally different. Right now, I mean, we feel better and better about the supply chain. We still feel this is going to be an issue, but this limiting factor we feel is going to go away within the next 18 months. You're absolutely right. So hopefully, I mean, in a year from now, supply chain, I mean, will be something that will almost not be a limiting factor anymore, yes.

好吧，我們覺得它在控制之中。它越來越受到控制，魯珀特。讓我們這樣說吧。如果你——我們一年前的討論，我的意思是，基調完全不同。現在，我的意思是，我們對供應鏈的感覺越來越好。我們仍然認為這將成為一個問題，但我們認為這一限制因素將在未來 18 個月內消失。你是絕對正確的。所以希望，我的意思是，在一年後，供應鏈，我的意思是，將成為幾乎不再是限制因素的東西，是的。

And are there any other limitations to the production, right? We know the order book is big enough, but are there enough of those orders that you could deliver on this year, let's say, to produce that kind of run rate?

製作還有其他限制嗎？我們知道訂單量足夠大，但是您今年可以交付的訂單數量是否足以產生這種運行率？

Well, there's always the final approval of the subsidies and all of this, but it's going well because most of the orders that we have always rely on own subsidies. But absolutely, no red flag. It's going well, but we're aligning obviously, the subsidies, I mean, with the delivery schedule.

好吧，補貼和所有這一切總是有最終批准，但進展順利，因為我們一直依賴自己補貼的大部分訂單。但絕對沒有危險信號。一切順利，但我們顯然正在調整補貼，我的意思是，與交付時間表保持一致。

And also when I was talking about our ecosystem in the past, making sure that the customers are very well equipped in terms of charging infrastructure to receive the buses and that they are being trained, is always something that is top of mind for us. So thank God that we had this Lion Energy that we've launched several years ago. We feel this is making a huge, huge difference, I mean, in terms of -- for the operations of the operators.

而且當我過去談論我們的生態系統時，確保客戶在充電基礎設施方面配備齊全以接收公共汽車並且他們正在接受培訓，這始終是我們的首要任務。感謝上帝，我們擁有幾年前推出的 Lion Energy。我們認為這正在產生巨大的差異，我的意思是，就運營商的運營而言。

So I would say for them, it's really receiving the buses and trucks when they need them, but they need to be fully prepared to receive them to make sure that it's going to be a very, very efficient operation. And I feel this is something that throughout the years, we became very, very good at doing.

所以我想對他們說，這真的是在他們需要的時候接收公共汽車和卡車，但他們需要做好充分準備來接收它們，以確保這將是一個非常、非常有效的操作。我覺得這是多年來我們變得非常非常擅長做的事情。

So you heard me talk a lot of time about this ecosystem. I think it makes a huge difference. And I think it's one of the big advantage we have when we're comparing to some of the other OEMs that are selling through dealers. Not easy for dealers to take, let's say, the EV turn and equip themselves with everything that they need to do that. And that's one of the reasons we've decided to sell direct. And I think it's serving us very well.

所以你聽到我談論了很多關於這個生態系統的時間。我認為這有很大的不同。我認為這是我們與其他一些通過經銷商銷售的 OEM 進行比較時的一大優勢。比方說，對於經銷商來說，電動汽車轉彎並為自己配備他們需要做的一切並不容易。這就是我們決定直接銷售的原因之一。我認為它對我們很有幫助。

Great. And then secondly, on the battery plants. So you believe your capacity could be 1.7-gigawatt hours. I think you said that's enough for 5,000 vehicles. So obviously, by the end of the year, the battery plant capacity could be greater than what you need for your internal uses. Are you contemplating using any of that capacity to sell to third parties? Or are there any other ways you can optimize those operations for, say, improving your margins?

偉大的。其次，在電池廠。所以您相信您的容量可能是 1.7 吉瓦時。我想你說這足夠 5,000 輛車。很明顯，到今年年底，電池廠的產能可能會超過您內部使用所需的產能。您是否正在考慮使用任何這種能力向第三方銷售？還是有任何其他方法可以優化這些操作，例如提高利潤率？

It's always an option, Rupert, because this capacity is going to be there. And the reason we're scaling up to 1.7, I mean it's a matter of automation. Almost everything is automated. You'll see that. I mean we'll do an opening probably in April, and you'll be able to see that. It's a very exciting operation. So it's a matter of automation. It's a matter of purchasing the right robots. So we felt the 1.7-gigawatt hour was the right number.

這始終是一種選擇，魯珀特，因為這種能力將會存在。我們擴展到 1.7 的原因是自動化問題。幾乎一切都是自動化的。你會看到的。我的意思是我們可能會在四月份開放，您將能夠看到。這是一個非常令人興奮的操作。所以這是一個自動化問題。這是購買合適的機器人的問題。所以我們覺得 1.7 吉瓦時是正確的數字。

Yes, you're right. I mean if we're selling only trucks, I mean, that will be like 2,500 trucks like if we're selling only like Lion8 tractor. If it's only buses, it's like 10,000 buses. So we do have ample capacity in this regard. We're not planning on selling our battery packs to anybody else right now because time is -- time to market is of the essence as well right now. And doing this for other OEMs, means a lot more. If you want to do it right, I mean, this means a lot more than just selling a battery pack. That will mean integrating this -- the battery pack with their current trucks or buses. So we're talking years for those OEMs to integrate those packs.

你是對的。我的意思是，如果我們只銷售卡車，我的意思是，如果我們只銷售 Lion8 拖拉機，那將是 2,500 輛卡車。如果只是公交車，那就是10,000輛公交車。所以我們在這方面確實有足夠的能力。我們現在不打算將我們的電池組出售給其他任何人，因為時間 - 上市時間現在也是至關重要的。為其他 OEM 這樣做意味著更多。如果你想做對，我的意思是，這不僅僅意味著銷售電池組。這將意味著將這個——電池組與他們目前的卡車或公共汽車整合起來。因此，我們正在談論那些 OEM 集成這些包的年。

This is something that many incumbent that we have through the years have been, I would say, understating, but it takes a lot of time to integrate a battery pack on a truck or on the bus. So we're not thinking about any like short-term option like that because we don't feel it's going to serve us well. We want to keep this capacity because we feel that we will need it on a short or medium-term basis. And we want to make sure that we're fully focused on selling the Lion products and getting the better costs. So not an option for now.

多年來，我想說，許多現任者都低估了這一點，但將電池組集成到卡車或公共汽車上需要花費大量時間。所以我們不會考慮任何類似的短期選擇，因為我們認為它不會很好地為我們服務。我們希望保留這種能力，因為我們認為我們將在短期或中期需要它。我們希望確保我們完全專注於銷售 Lion 產品並獲得更好的成本。所以現在不是一個選擇。

So just one final follow-up on that battery plant. Are there any other limiting factors on the capacity of that plant? Do you have any supply chain concerns for the battery plant? Or I know it's mostly automated. So I imagine a few labor concerns. Any other concerns you might be able to hit the run rate?

所以只是對該電池廠的最後一次跟進。該工廠的產能還有其他限制因素嗎？您對電池工廠的供應鏈有任何擔憂嗎？或者我知道它主要是自動化的。所以我想像一些勞工問題。您是否還有其他顧慮可能會達到運行率？

Yes. No labor concern. You're absolutely right. I mean labor is not -- let's say, it's not a challenge. Supply chain is always a challenge. So we -- I should say that we have the same supply chain challenges than we have for the rest of our operations. So we do -- we know the lead times of all of our suppliers. We have a solid agreement for the cells, which is keen in what we're doing. So we've announced that last year. So this is in place, and this is very strong. And we have a long-term relationship with most of those Tier 1 suppliers as well.

是的。沒有勞動問題。你是絕對正確的。我的意思是勞動不是——比方說，這不是挑戰。供應鏈始終是一個挑戰。所以我們 - 我應該說我們面臨著與我們其他業務相同的供應鏈挑戰。所以我們這樣做 - 我們知道我們所有供應商的交貨時間。我們對細胞有一個堅實的協議，它對我們正在做的事情很感興趣。所以我們去年宣布了這一點。所以這個很到位，這個很給力。我們也與大多數一級供應商建立了長期合作關係。

So we didn't start -- with most of the suppliers, we didn't start building this relationship just lately. I mean many of them, I mean, we had them as suppliers, I mean, for many, many years. So it's a very good relationship. It's almost partnerships that we have with those suppliers. So I would say in all the comments I've made earlier about the supply chain and the challenges for the next 12 to 18 months are the same, but we're -- we navigate with those. And we manage those supply chain challenges, the same way we're doing for the rest of our operations.

所以我們沒有開始 - 對於大多數供應商，我們最近才開始建立這種關係。我的意思是他們中的很多人，我的意思是，我們有他們作為供應商，我的意思是，很多很多年了。所以這是一個非常好的關係。我們與這些供應商幾乎建立了合作夥伴關係。所以我想說的是，在我之前對供應鏈所做的所有評論中，未來 12 到 18 個月的挑戰都是一樣的，但我們——我們正在應對這些挑戰。我們管理這些供應鏈挑戰，就像我們處理其他業務一樣。

The next question comes from Michael Glen with Raymond James.

下一個問題來自 Michael Glen 和 Raymond James。

Okay. Everything has been answered. Thanks.

好的。一切都得到了回答。謝謝。

Okay. Thank you, Michael.

好的。謝謝你，邁克爾。

Our next question comes from Abhi Sinha with Northland Financial.

我們的下一個問題來自 Northland Financial 的 Abhi Sinha。

So just one question on supply chain, this is the last one. I know you have answered a lot. Is there any way you can quantify the impact -- whether on revenues or in terms of number of units, what the exact impact could have been early? It was there. If there was no supply chain impact what the revenues or the units would have been?

所以只有一個關於供應鏈的問題，這是最後一個。我知道你已經回答了很多。有什麼方法可以量化影響——無論是對收入還是對單位數量，確切的影響可能是早期的？它在那裡。如果沒有供應鏈影響，收入或單位會是多少？

Yes, Abhi. I mean, well, not easy to say. Obviously, we've been managing those supply chain challenges. So we've been hiring the people we needed accordingly with our production schedule. So the good news is that we have a good, solid order book, and this is where it starts. And when you're looking at the number of buses and trucks we can do, we're very well equipped to do that. But I spoke about this earlier. I mean, I think part of -- we're being very careful with the capital spend. And capital spend is not only CapEx, it's also about OpEx. It's also about operation and making sure you're making money on every single buses and trucks that you're selling, and this is what we're doing. So we align all of our spending according to the economic conditions, including everything. So not easy to answer. I mean, if there was no supply chain challenges, I mean, on the units we could have done, but obviously, we could have done a lot more units than the ones that we did last year.

是的，阿比。我的意思是，好吧，這不容易說。顯然，我們一直在應對這些供應鏈挑戰。所以我們一直在根據我們的生產計劃招聘我們需要的人。所以好消息是我們有一個好的、可靠的訂單簿，這就是它的開始。當您查看我們可以生產的公共汽車和卡車的數量時，我們完全有能力做到這一點。但我早些時候談到了這一點。我的意思是，我認為部分 - 我們對資本支出非常謹慎。資本支出不僅與資本支出有關，還與運營支出有關。它還與運營有關，並確保您在銷售的每輛公共汽車和卡車上都能賺錢，這就是我們正在做的事情。因此，我們根據經濟狀況調整所有支出，包括一切。所以不好回答。我的意思是，如果沒有供應鏈挑戰，我的意思是，在我們可以完成的單位上，但顯然，我們本可以完成比去年更多的單位。

And did you face more issues on the Canada side or the U.S. supply chain?

您是否在加拿大或美國供應鏈方面面臨更多問題？

Well, I would say it's on both sides of the border. I mean we have a lot of suppliers on both sides of the border. So we're trying to be as local as possible. But we're -- it's really like the landed cost and the quality, that's always top of mind for us. So we have suppliers in Canada. We have suppliers in the United States. We have suppliers in some other countries as well. We're trying to avoid any authoritarian countries, and we will not -- as you know, we will not be doing business with authoritarian countries in a few years from now.

好吧，我會說它在邊界的兩邊。我的意思是我們在邊境兩邊都有很多供應商。所以我們試圖盡可能地本地化。但我們——這真的很像到岸成本和質量，這對我們來說總是最重要的。所以我們在加拿大有供應商。我們在美國有供應商。我們在其他一些國家也有供應商。我們正在努力避開任何專制國家，我們不會——如你所知，從現在起的幾年內我們不會與專制國家做生意。

But I won't -- I don't think there's any significant difference between Canada and U.S. right now. I think it's really a matter of understanding and really knowing your supplier because they have their own challenges. Sometimes, they will be manufacturing in some other countries as well for some components that they're putting into the components that the they are selling us. So our game is really to stay very close to them and make sure we understand their business and we understand their lead times and we have a full transparency on the -- when they will deliver the products. But I don't see any significant difference between the two countries.

但我不會——我認為現在加拿大和美國之間沒有任何顯著差異。我認為這真的是一個理解和真正了解你的供應商的問題，因為他們有自己的挑戰。有時，他們也會在其他一些國家/地區製造某些組件，這些組件將放入他們出售給我們的組件中。所以我們的遊戲真的是與他們保持非常密切的關係，並確保我們了解他們的業務，我們了解他們的交貨時間，並且我們對他們交付產品的時間完全透明。但我看不出兩國之間有什麼顯著差異。

Sure. Just one last, if I could. On the battery, if I understand that you switched to BMW because looking for more robust, more profitable battery when you are making your own. I'm trying to understand like if you could provide some color on what's the differentiating factor? I know you talked about the cost. Is there anything else that adds on with this charging speed, more power? And what does it do to the margin -- immediate margin impact for you guys in terms of any kind of [quantification] how accretive would that be?

當然。最後一個，如果可以的話。關於電池，據我了解，您轉而使用 BMW 是因為您在製造自己的電池時尋找更堅固、更有利可圖的電池。我想了解您是否可以提供一些關於差異化因素的顏色？我知道你談到了成本。有沒有其他東西可以增加這種充電速度，更多功率？它對利潤率有什麼影響——就任何一種[量化]而言，對你們的直接利潤率影響是多少？

Well, Abhi, there are so many differences between our packs and any packs that an OEM can -- could be buying from battery pack suppliers. First of all, I mean those packs are, let's say, custom made for the Lion products. So it's a perfect weight and balance of our trucks and buses. And the operators are saying they're seeing a huge difference because of that. So not only, I mean, it's a better driving experience, but it's also safer for them. And it's also a way to put more kilowatt hour if needed. Like we do have a modular approach. And we are selling in multiple of 70-kilowatt hour or 105-kilowatt hour as well. So basically, the customer can buy and invest the money in the number of kilowatt hour they need for their operations. So that's a huge difference.

好吧，Abhi，我們的電池組與 OEM 可以從電池組供應商處購買的任何電池組之間存在很多差異。首先，我的意思是說，這些包裝是為 Lion 產品定制的。因此，它是我們卡車和公共汽車的完美重量和平衡。運營商表示，他們因此看到了巨大的差異。因此，我的意思是，這不僅是一種更好的駕駛體驗，而且對他們來說也更安全。如果需要，這也是增加千瓦時的一種方式。就像我們確實有一個模塊化的方法。我們也以 70 千瓦時或 105 千瓦時的倍數銷售。所以基本上，客戶可以購買和投資他們運營所需的千瓦時數。所以這是一個巨大的差異。

In terms of technology as well, I mean, wow, it's like night and day. The efficiency we could get from our batteries is better than most of the technology that we see out there right now for many reasons. I mean the BMS is really state of the art for the battery management system, but also the BTMS, the thermal management system, state-of-the-art, fully custom made to the Lion batteries as well and the users that we're doing with the Lion trucks and Lion buses. But also, I mean, the way you charge, like the speed -- the charging speed for the customers or for the operators, it makes a huge difference.

在技術方面，我的意思是，哇，就像白天和黑夜一樣。由於許多原因，我們可以從電池中獲得的效率比我們現在看到的大多數技術都要好。我的意思是 BMS 確實是電池管理系統的最先進技術，而且 BTMS、熱管理系統也是最先進的，完全為 Lion 電池和我們的用戶定制使用 Lion 卡車和 Lion 巴士。而且，我的意思是，你的收費方式，比如速度——對客戶或運營商的收費速度，會產生巨大的差異。

So now most of the operators and all of the operators on the truck side are using Level 3 charging stations, and we became very, very good at all of that with respect to the Level 3. So right now, I mean, we're at 350-kilowatt, but we're working on getting a lot more than that in the short-term future.

所以現在大多數操作員和卡車側的所有操作員都在使用 3 級充電站，我們在 3 級方面變得非常非常擅長。所以現在，我的意思是，我們在 350 千瓦，但我們正在努力在短期內獲得比這更多的東西。

So for a lot of operators that are using our trucks like 20 hours a day makes a huge difference. So charging speed as well, but also, I mean, the cooling system will affect the efficiency of the battery. It will affect the charging speed for the batteries as well, but also the life cycle. So when you are able to cool your batteries in a timely manner, well, you're helping your life cycle. So your life cycle is getting better also. And we feel that all of those factors are making a huge difference.

因此，對於許多每天使用我們的卡車 20 小時的操作員來說，這會產生巨大的不同。所以充電速度也是如此，而且，我的意思是，冷卻系統會影響電池的效率。它也會影響電池的充電速度，也會影響電池的使用壽命。因此，當您能夠及時冷卻電池時，您就是在幫助您的生命週期。所以你的生命週期也越來越好。我們認為所有這些因素都產生了巨大的影響。

Now you've been asking about the gross margin. Nick, I don't know if you want to comment any more on this?

現在你一直在問毛利率。尼克，我不知道你是否想對此發表更多評論？

Yes. Look, I'd just say that we're -- we expect to get margin improvements over time from switching to our own batteries. Obviously, we're supplying at the commodity level. We're cutting in terms of the areas. We're reducing, obviously, the profit that we're paying to third parties. There is some ramp-up in terms of getting there, but that's one of the key components that will certainly help.

是的。看，我只是說我們 - 我們希望隨著時間的推移通過改用我們自己的電池來提高利潤率。顯然，我們在商品層面提供。我們正在削減面積。顯然，我們正在減少支付給第三方的利潤。在到達那裡方面有一些提升，但這是肯定會有所幫助的關鍵組成部分之一。

Our final question today comes from Craig Irwin with ROTH Capital.

我們今天的最後一個問題來自 ROTH Capital 的 Craig Irwin。

A very simple question. So you guided for $20 million. And then what was it? $45 million for CapEx. Is there any other CapEx are we looking at total CapEx this year at $65 million?

一個非常簡單的問題。所以你指導了 2000 萬美元。那是什麼？資本支出為 4500 萬美元。我們今年的資本支出總額為 6500 萬美元，還有其他資本支出嗎？

No. There is some other CapEx that is qualified, Craig, at sort of maintenance and procurement CapEx, et cetera. Over the last year, that CapEx was about $10 million. That's in 2022.

不，還有一些其他的資本支出是合格的，克雷格，在維護和採購資本支出等方面。去年，資本支出約為 1000 萬美元。那是在 2022 年。

Thanks. Those are all the questions we have time for today, so I'll turn the call back to the management team for any concluding remarks.

謝謝。這些就是我們今天有時間提出的所有問題，所以我會把電話轉回給管理團隊，聽取任何結束語。

Well, thanks, everyone, for joining the call today. We look forward to continuing the discussion with you, and feel free to contact me for any questions you may have. You have a nice day. Thank you.

好吧，謝謝大家今天加入電話會議。我們期待與您繼續討論，如有任何問題，請隨時與我聯繫。你今天過得愉快。謝謝。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. This concludes our call, and you may now disconnect your lines.

謝謝大家今天加入我們。我們的通話到此結束，您現在可以斷開您的線路。