Kinsale Capital Group Inc (KNSL) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Q2 2023 Kinsale Capital Group Inc., Earnings Conference Call. Before we get started, let me remind everyone that through the course of this teleconference, Kinsale's management may make comments that reflect their intentions, beliefs and expectations for the future. As always, these forward-looking statements are subject to certain risk factors, which could cause actual results to differ materially.

早上好，歡迎參加 Kinsale Capital Group Inc. 2023 年第二季度收益電話會議。在我們開始之前，讓我提醒大家，通過這次電話會議的過程，金塞爾的管理層可能會發表反映他們的意圖、信念和對未來的期望的評論。與往常一樣，這些前瞻性陳述受到某些風險因素的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異。

These risk factors are listed in the company's various SEC filings, including the 2022 annual report on Form 10-K, which should be reviewed carefully. The company has furnished a Form 8-K with the Securities and Exchange Commission that contains the press release announcing its second quarter results.

這些風險因素列在該公司向 SEC 提交的各種文件中，包括 10-K 表格中的 2022 年年度報告，應仔細審查。該公司已向美國證券交易委員會提交了 8-K 表，其中包含宣布第二季度業績的新聞稿。

Kinsale's management may also reference certain non-GAAP financial measures in the call today. A reconciliation of GAAP to these measures can be found in the press release, which is available at the company's website at www.kinsalecapitalgroup.com.

金塞爾的管理層還可能在今天的電話會議中引用某些非公認會計準則財務指標。 GAAP 與這些措施的調節可在新聞稿中找到，該新聞稿可在公司網站 www.kinsalecapitalgroup.com 上查閱。

I'll now turn the conference over to Kinsale's President and CEO, Mr. Michael Kehoe. Please go ahead, sir.

我現在將會議轉交給金塞爾總裁兼首席執行官 Michael Kehoe 先生。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. Bryan Petrucelli, our CFO; and Brian Haney, our COO, both on the call this morning as well. Each of us will make a few comments, and then we'll move on to any questions you may have.

謝謝接線員，大家早上好。布萊恩·佩特魯切利 (Bryan Petrucelli)，我們的首席財務官；我們的首席運營官 Brian Haney 今天早上也參加了電話會議。我們每個人都會發表一些評論，然後我們將繼續回答您可能提出的任何問題。

In the second quarter, 2023 Kinsale's operating earnings per share increased by 50% and gross written premium grew by 58.2% over the second quarter of 2022.

2023年第二季度，Kinsale每股營業利潤較2022年第二季度增長50%，毛保費增長58.2%。

For the quarter, the company posted a combined ratio of 76.7% and an operating ROE return on equity of 30.6% for the 6 months. These results follow from the company's strategy of both disciplined E&S underwriting and technology-enabled low costs, which allows us to generate attractive returns and to take market share from competitors at the same time. The favorable market conditions in the overall E&S market further boosted the Kinsale numbers especially as respect to the quarterly growth of 58%. 2023 may be the sixth calendar year in a row with double-digit industry-wide E&S premium growth.

本季度，該公司的綜合成本率為 76.7%，近 6 個月的運營股本回報率為 30.6%。這些成果源於公司嚴格的 E&S 承保和技術驅動的低成本戰略，這使我們能夠產生有吸引力的回報，同時從競爭對手手中奪取市場份額。整個 E&S 市場有利的市場條件進一步提振了 Kinsale 數據，尤其是季度增長 58%。 2023 年可能是全行業 E&S 保費連續第六年實現兩位數增長。

The commercial property market continues to be an area of opportunity for Kinsale with both rapid growth in premium and strong rate increases. As we've discussed previously, we are balancing the market opportunity and the goal of limiting volatility in our quarterly earnings.

商業地產市場仍然是金塞爾的一個機遇領域，保費快速增長且利率強勁上漲。正如我們之前討論的，我們正在平衡市場機會和限制季度收益波動的目標。

Even with the recent growth in property premium, our expected losses relative to operating income have not materially changed. We have stressed the importance of establishing reserves for future claims in a conservative fashion. And in fact, on an inception-to-date basis for the last 10 years, all of our prior accident years have developed favorably. Given the rate increases we have achieved over the last several years, we believe our total reserves are more conservatively positioned now than at any time in the history of our company, even with the impact of elevated inflation in the last several years.

即使最近房地產溢價有所增長，我們相對於營業收入的預期損失也沒有發生重大變化。我們強調了以保守的方式為未來索賠建立準備金的重要性。事實上，從成立至今的過去 10 年來看，我們之前所有的事故年份都取得了良好的發展。考慮到我們在過去幾年中實現的加息，我們相信我們的總儲備現在比我們公司歷史上的任何時候都更加保守，即使在過去幾年通貨膨脹加劇的影響下也是如此。

That being said, however, inflation has reduced the level of conservatism in our 2016 through 2018 accident years. And if inflation is hitting select Kinsale reserves, we suspect it is hitting our competitors as well. And to the extent that inflation is impacting casualty reserve adequacy for the industry, it may be bullish for continued strong rate increases and growth for the near term perhaps through 2024 or beyond.

然而，話雖如此，通貨膨脹降低了 2016 年至 2018 年事故年份的保守程度。如果通貨膨脹正在影響金塞爾的某些儲備，我們懷疑它也會影響我們的競爭對手。如果通貨膨脹正在影響該行業的傷亡準備金充足性，那麼短期內持續強勁的加息和增長可能會利好，可能會持續到 2024 年或更長時間。

As we've noted many times, longer term, we see levels of competition normalizing and our growth rate dropping into the teens, while our business model of disciplined underwriting and low cost allows us to continue to deliver best-in-class returns.

正如我們多次指出的那樣，從長遠來看，我們看到競爭水平正常化，我們的增長率降至十幾歲，而我們嚴格的承保和低成本的商業模式使我們能夠繼續提供一流的回報。

A final comment from me on the real estate investment we made in December of 2022. As you recall, we purchased 2 office buildings and vacant land adjacent to our existing headquarters for $77.5 million. One of those buildings is under a long-term lease and is now under our contract to be sold for $63 million and we expect that sale to close in the third quarter.

我對 2022 年 12 月進行的房地產投資的最後評論。您還記得，我們​​以 7750 萬美元購買了現有總部附近的兩棟辦公樓和空地。其中一棟建築處於長期租賃狀態，目前根據我們的合同，將以 6,300 萬美元的價格出售，我們預計銷售將於第三季度完成。

We also expect to begin renovations on the remaining building that is largely vacant later this year or early next year and to occupy it beginning in 2025. And with that, I'll turn the call over to Bryan Petrucelli.

我們還預計在今年晚些時候或明年初開始對大部分空置的剩余建築進行翻修，並於 2025 年開始入住。接下來，我會將電話轉給 Bryan Petrucelli。

Thanks, Mike. Again, just another really strong quarter with 58% growth in written premium and net income and operating income increasing by 169% and 51%, respectively. The 76.7% combined ratio for the quarter included 3.9 points from net favorable prior year loss reserve development compared to 4.9 points last year with less than 1 point coming from cat losses in either period.

謝謝，邁克。這又是一個非常強勁的季度，承保保費增長了 58%，淨利潤和營業收入分別增長了 169% 和 51%。本季度 76.7% 的綜合成本率包括 3.9 個百分點，來自去年的淨有利損失準備金發展，而去年為 4.9 個百分點，其中來自兩個時期巨災損失的不到 1 個百分點。

In the second quarter of this year, we made an immaterial accounting policy change and reclassified policy fees from an offset to underwriting expense to fee income. This change was driven by the increase in policy fees relative to operating expenses. In connection with this reclass, we've modified the expense and loss ratio calculations to add the fees to premium and the denominator of each one of those ratios. For comparison purposes, we've reclassified prior periods to conform with the current period's presentation. We believe the current presentation provides better clarity and transparency to the users of our financial statements.

今年第二季度，我們進行了一項無關緊要的會計政策變更，並將保單費用從抵銷額重新分類為承保費用，再分類為費用收入。這一變化是由於保單費用相對於運營費用的增加所致。與此重新分類相關，我們修改了費用和損失比率的計算，將費用添加到保費以及每個比率的分母中。出於比較目的，我們對前期進行了重新分類，以符合本期的列報。我們相信當前的演示文稿為我們的財務報表的用戶提供了更好的清晰度和透明度。

This change had a slight impact on the previously recorded ratios. However, no impact on the company's operating results. Most of the improvement in the modified quarterly expense ratio of 21% compared to 22.5% in the second quarter of last year related to ceding commissions from the company's casualty and commercial property proportional reinsurance agreements as a result of growth in both of those lines of business.

這一變化對之前記錄的比率產生了輕微影響。但對公司經營業績沒有影響。與去年第二季度的 22.5% 相比，修正後的季度費用率從去年第二季度的 22.5% 下降了 21%，這主要與由於這兩個業務領域的增長而放棄了公司傷亡和商業財產比例再保險協議的佣金有關。

With respect to reinsurance, we successfully renewed our commercial property quota share, property cat and casualty variable quota share treaties on June 1. Pricing was consistent with previous years on the 2 quota share treaties. However, we did increase the ceding percentage on our commercial property quota share from 42.5% to 50%. We saw an approximately 20% increase in our cat treaty pricing on a risk-adjusted basis. As a result, we increased our retention to $47.5 million and at the same time, bought more limit on the top layer to account for increased exposure.

再保險方面，我們於6月1日成功續簽了商業財產配額份額、財產貓和傷亡可變配額份額條約。兩項配額份額條約的定價與往年一致。不過，我們確實將商業地產配額份額的讓出比例從 42.5% 提高到 50%。在風險調整的基礎上，我們的巨災條約定價增加了約 20%。因此，我們將保留金增加到 4750 萬美元，同時在頂層購買了更多限額，以應對增加的風險敞口。

Lastly, we did not renew our personal insurance quota share treaty due to the dramatic decrease in concentration from actions we took after Hurricane Ian last year.

最後，我們沒有續簽個人保險配額份額條約，因為去年伊恩颶風過後我們採取的行動集中度急劇下降。

On the investment side, net investment income increased by 128% over the second quarter of last year as a result of continued growth in the investment portfolio and higher interest rates with gross returns of 3.8% for the year compared to 2.6% last year. We're continuing to invest new money in shorter duration securities with new money yields averaging a little higher than 5% during the quarter and duration decreasing slightly to 3.1 years, down from 3.5 years at the end of last year.

投資方面，由於投資組合持續增長以及利率上升，淨投資收益較去年第二季度增長128%，全年毛回報率為3.8%，而去年為2.6%。我們繼續將新資金投資於期限較短的證券，本季度新資金的平均收益率略高於 5%，久期略有下降至 3.1 年，低於去年年底的 3.5 年。

And lastly, diluted operating earnings per share continues to improve and was $2.88 per share for the quarter compared to $1.92 per share last year.

最後，稀釋後每股營業收益繼續改善，本季度為每股 2.88 美元，而去年為每股 1.92 美元。

With that, I'll pass it over to Brian Haney.

有了這個，我會把它交給布萊恩哈尼。

Thanks, Bryan. As mentioned earlier, premium grew 58% in the second quarter, which was significantly higher than the past several quarters. The E&S market remains favorable with strong growth across most of our products. The products -- the property market continues to be hard. In addition to the property market, we are seeing continued strong growth in our entertainment and general casualty divisions. Management liability still continues to lag. Much of this is due to a lot of competition in this space, particularly from MGAs. Submission growth continues to be strong, again, in the low 20% range and slightly higher than the first quarter.

謝謝，布萊恩。如前所述，第二季度保費增長了58%，明顯高於過去幾個季度。 E&S 市場依然有利，我們的大多數產品均強勁增長。產品——房地產市場依然艱難。除了房地產市場之外，我們還看到娛樂和普通傷亡部門持續強勁增長。管理責任仍然滯後。這很大程度上是由於該領域的激烈競爭，尤其是來自 MGA 的競爭。提交量增長再次保持強勁，增幅在 20% 左右，略高於第一季度。

We view submissions as a leading indicator of growth, so the submission growth is a positive signal for our market opportunity. We sell a wide array of products and the rates on those products don't move in lockstep. But if we boil it all down to 1 number, we see real rates being up around 6% in the aggregate during the second quarter, a little less than the first quarter. Some of this change from the first quarter is natural volatility and some is from changes in the mix of business. The property market is still boosting our overall number. The rate changes for property would be well higher than the average. The rate changes for casualty divisions would vary greatly, but overall, it would be less than the average. It's important to stress that rate change and rate adequacy are 2 different things.

我們將提交量視為增長的領先指標，因此提交量的增長是我們市場機會的積極信號。我們銷售各種各樣的產品，但這些產品的價格並不一致。但如果我們將其全部歸結為一個數字，我們會發現第二季度實際利率總計上漲約 6%，略低於第一季度。第一季度的變化部分是自然波動，部分是業務組合的變化。房地產市場仍在推動我們的總數。房地產的利率變化將遠高於平均水平。傷亡率的變化差異很大，但總體而言，會低於平均水平。需要強調的是，利率變化和利率充足性是兩件不同的事情。

As our results demonstrate, our rates are more than adequate. We are continually reviewing our rates and adjusting them based on a number of considerations, such as our target combined ratio and return on equity, the market opportunity and shifts in the competition. I should also note that when we're talking about rate changes, we were talking about real rate changes. So any positive number would suggest improving margins.

正如我們的結果所表明的，我們的費率綽綽有餘。我們不斷審查我們的費率，並根據多種考慮因素進行調整，例如我們的目標綜合成本率和股本回報率、市場機會和競爭變化。我還應該指出，當我們談論利率變化時，我們談論的是實際利率變化。因此，任何正數都表明利潤率有所提高。

With our return on equity running well ahead of our targets, we don't have a need to raise our rates at all in order to feel confident about hitting our profitability guidance. We could lower our rates and grow faster, as opposed, but we are growing fast enough as it is. We have twin objectives of profit and growth. And in this environment, we're achieving both without needing to cut rate. In any event, we feel the business we are putting on the books today is the most accurately priced business we've seen in our history.

由於我們的股本回報率遠遠超出了我們的目標，我們根本不需要提高利率來對達到我們的盈利指引充滿信心。相反，我們可以降低利率並加快增長，但我們的增長速度已經足夠快了。我們有利潤和增長的雙重目標。在這種環境下，我們無需降息即可實現這兩個目標。無論如何，我們認為今天登記的業務是我們歷史上定價最準確的業務。

As Mike mentioned, we are seeing effects of inflation in some of our longer tail business. We're in a good spot to keep pace with that with the strong pricing and the conservative reserving, but you may well see this play out across the industry. And if that happens, it could take a long while for the industry to catch up. I think that inflation will likely serve to prolong the hard market.

正如邁克提到的，我們在一些長尾業務中看到了通貨膨脹的影響。我們處於有利的位置，可以通過強勁的定價和保守的保留來跟上這一步伐，但您很可能會看到這種情況在整個行業中發揮作用。如果發生這種情況，該行業可能需要很長時間才能迎頭趕上。我認為通貨膨脹可能會延長硬市場。

The market conditions are good again. For the most part, we see competitors either retrenching or behaving in a stable and rational manner. There are exceptions to this, but those exceptions tend to be concentrated among MGAs and fronting deals. I suspect that some of the recent adverse news in that space will highlight the pitfalls of that model and dampen investor enthusiasm, but that remains to be seen. Overall, clearly, a good quarter, and we are very happy with the results. And with that, I'll hand it back over to Mike.

市場狀況再次良好。在大多數情況下，我們看到競爭對手要么緊縮開支，要么表現穩定、理性。這也有例外，但這些例外往往集中在 MGA 和前沿交易中。我懷疑該領域最近的一些不利消息將凸顯該模式的缺陷並削弱投資者的熱情，但這仍有待觀察。總的來說，顯然這是一個不錯的季度，我們對結果非常滿意。有了這個，我會把它交還給邁克。

Okay. Thanks, Brian. Operator, we're now ready for any calls in the queue.

好的。謝謝，布萊恩。接線員，我們現在已準備好接聽隊列中的所有呼叫。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

The first question is from Jack Madden with BMO Capital Markets.

第一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 Jack Madden。

Just the first one on the E&S marketplace and pricing. We've seen some brokers and carriers report premium growth well in excess of expectations similar to your results. I guess can you talk about the momentum you're seeing either on the pricing front and can flow into the E&S space and maybe differentiating between casualty lines and property lines.

這只是 E&S 市場和定價上的第一個。我們看到一些經紀商和運營商報告的保費增長遠遠超出了與您的結果類似的預期。我想您能否談談您在定價方面看到的勢頭，以及可能流入 E&S 領域的勢頭，也許還可以區分傷亡險和財產險。

Sorry, I lost half of that. Can you repeat the last half of your question?

抱歉，我已經失去了一半了。你能重複一下你問題的後半部分嗎？

Can you just talk about the momentum you're seeing either on the pricing front and/or flow into the E&S marketplace? And then are casualty lines seeing pricing momentum? Or is it mostly just property lines?

您能否談談您在定價方面和/或進入 E&S 市場的勢頭？那麼，傷亡險是否看到了定價勢頭？或者主要只是財產線？

I would say that the property is obviously seeing more momentum. I would say casualty depending on what line you're talking about. Some of them are seeing pretty strong rate momentum. The submission growth, I think, tends to be fairly good across most of the lines. And to the extent that it is anything it has to do with some sort of ebbs and flows in the economy. But I would say for the most part, we are seeing continued momentum across both casualty and property.

我想說的是，該物業顯然看到了更多的動力。我會說傷亡取決於你所說的那條線。其中一些人看到了相當強勁的利率勢頭。我認為，大多數方面的提交量增長都相當不錯。在某種程度上，它與經濟的某種潮起潮落有關。但我想說的是，在很大程度上，我們看到傷亡和財產方面的持續增長勢頭。

Got it. And then A follow-up on lawsuit and social inflation. So we've been seeing carriers report lower year-over-year levels of reserve and leases from longer tail lines with general liability. I guess can you talk about the casualty loss cost trends you're seeing in your portfolio, are they entering higher at all?

知道了。然後是訴訟和社會通貨膨脹的後續行動。因此，我們看到承運人報告稱，由於一般責任較長的尾線，儲備和租賃的同比水平較低。我想您能談談您在投資組合中看到的傷亡損失成本趨勢嗎？它們是否正在走高？

Yes. I mean we're seeing the effect of inflation on the longer tail lines and to the extent that older claims are inflated in value, it stretches out your development patterns. That's consistent with the comments I made about the 2016, '17 and '18 years. We think we're in good shape for those years in terms of reserve adequacy. It's just that we don't see the same kind of dramatic conservatism in the more recent years.

是的。我的意思是，我們正在看到通貨膨脹對更長的尾線的影響，並且在一定程度上，舊債權的價值被誇大，它延伸了你的發展模式。這與我對2016年、17年和18年的評論是一致的。我們認為這些年來我們的儲備充足率狀況良好。只是近年來我們沒有看到同樣戲劇性的保守主義。

We've been raising rates ahead of loss cost trend since 2019. So it's year upon year upon year upon year. And that's what's driving our confidence in the strength of our balance sheet, the profitability of our business, the conservative position as respects reserves. But yes, the older longer-tail casualty lines are seeing the impact of inflation whether it's social or regular, I don't know that we distinguish between the two, but loss cost trend is real, and it's accelerated by inflation.

自 2019 年以來，我們一直在損失成本趨勢之前提高利率。因此，年復一年。這就是推動我們對資產負債表實力、業務盈利能力以及尊重儲備的保守立場充滿信心的原因。但是，是的，較舊的長尾傷亡保險正在看到通貨膨脹的影響，無論是社會通貨膨脹還是常規通貨膨脹，我不知道我們是否區分了兩者，但損失成本趨勢是真實的，並且通貨膨脹加速了這種趨勢。

The next question is from Mark Hughes with Truist Securities.

下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的馬克·休斯 (Mark Hughes)。

Bryan Petrucelli, the fee revenue, is it -- it looks like there are about 2 points of written for the few data points we've got here. Is that a good way to look at it? How should we model that?

布萊恩·佩特魯切利 (Bryan Petrucelli)，費用收入，是嗎 - 看起來我們在這裡得到的少數數據點大約有 2 點。這是一個看待它的好方法嗎？我們應該如何建模？

Yes. I think -- Mark, I think the best way to do it is if you take a look at the policy fees as a percentage of your direct written. And I think it is a little less than 2%. But I think if you're modeling it out, I think model it along with your direct premium growth projections.

是的。我認為 - 馬克，我認為最好的方法是查看保單費用佔直接承保費用的百分比。我認為這個比例略低於 2%。但我認為，如果你要對其進行建模，我認為將其與你的直接保費增長預測一起建模。

Okay. And then, Mike, the property mix, I think you've talked in the past how you've had maybe 20% property, maybe half of that cat exposed. How is that shaping up now? How can either of those numbers go?

好的。然後，邁克，財產組合，我想你過去曾談到過你可能擁有 20% 的財產，也許那隻貓的一半暴露在外。現在情況如何？這兩個數字怎麼可能去呢？

Yes. It's steady quarter-over-quarter, Mark. There's a lot of opportunity in the property space. We're definitely leaning into that. As we've talked about in the past, we've got fairly rigorous controls around the concentration of property in any given geographic area. We buy a lot of reinsurance. We model the portfolio continuously. So that's where we have the confidence that our expected losses in the event of a major storm relative to operating income hasn't really shifted at all.

是的。馬克，季度環比穩定。房地產領域有很多機會。我們肯定傾向於這一點。正如我們過去談到的，我們對任何特定地理區域的財產集中度都有相當嚴格的控制。我們購買了很多再保險。我們不斷地對投資組合進行建模。因此，我們有信心，在發生重大風暴時，相對於營業收入的預期損失根本沒有真正改變。

You think about this quarter, the lot of cats, presumably some competitors really taking a hit. You had hardly any losses. Anything you could say about your book of business, why this was not relevant for you this quarter?

你想想這個季度，很多貓，想必一些競爭對手確實受到了打擊。你幾乎沒有任何損失。關於您的業務，您有什麼想說的嗎？為什麼這與您本季度的業務不相關？

Well, I mean some of that can be random. Some of it is where those tornadoes, thunderstorms, hail events, et cetera, took place. And it seems like it was disproportionately a personal lines event, and we're not a huge personal lines writer. Our strategy on the commercial property, we definitely skew towards writing excess policies versus primary. So that gives you a little bit of insulation from a more minor event. That's all I can think of at the moment.

嗯，我的意思是其中一些可能是隨機的。其中一些是龍捲風、雷暴、冰雹事件等發生的地方。看起來這似乎是一個不成比例的個人台詞事件，而我們並不是一個大型的個人台詞作家。我們在商業地產方面的策略，我們絕對傾向於撰寫多餘的保單而不是主要的保單。這樣你就可以免受更小事件的影響。目前我能想到的就這麼多。

Yes. No, that's helpful. I appreciate that. The cost basis in your -- the building that you're selling, the sale price was $63 million. What's the cost basis for what you're selling?

是的。不，這很有幫助。我很感激。您正在出售的建築物的成本基礎，售價為 6300 萬美元。您所銷售產品的成本基礎是什麼？

So if you look at the available for sale line item in our balance sheet, Mark, it's about $57.5 million.

因此，馬克，如果您查看我們資產負債表中的可供出售項目，您會發現它約為 5750 萬美元。

And is that for the entire property, aren't you -- do I hear that you're selling just part of it? Or...

是不是整個房產都這樣——我聽說你只賣了其中的一部分？或者...

Yes, the asset for sale amount is just the property that we're selling. The real estate investment line item underneath that is what we'll have left.

是的，待售資產金額就是我們正在出售的財產。下面的房地產投資項目就是我們剩下的。

Right. So modest gain, fair enough.

正確的。如此微薄的收益，足夠公平了。

Correct.

正確的。

And then Brian Haney, you mentioned the recent news in the MGA space may herald some kind of turn in that sector. What are you referring to generally speaking or if there are specifics you can share?

然後 Brian Haney，您提到 MGA 領域最近的新聞可能預示著該領域的某種轉變。一般來說，您指的是什麼？或者您是否可以分享一些具體內容？

Yes, I'm not going to name names, but there was some issues with the collateral of some MGA fronting deals, which is -- I mean, if you search the financial press, you'll find some examples of it. But I will say this, that particular instance, I would say, of our most aggressive competitors, the people we run into frequently and are frequently dramatically undercutting our rates. I would say they tend to be heavily concentrated in the people associated with this recent follow-up.

是的，我不會點名，但一些 MGA 前置交易的抵押品存在一些問題，我的意思是，如果你搜索財經媒體，你會找到一些例子。但我要說的是，我想說的是，我們最激進的競爭對手，我們經常遇到的人，並且經常大幅降低我們的價格。我想說，他們往往主要集中在與最近的後續行動相關的人身上。

The next question is from Pablo Singzon with JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Pablo Singzon。

Mike, I appreciate the commentary you provided on your property book and noted on where you are on the (inaudible) I was wondering if there's something to think about your geographic exposure there. I suppose if you think of sort of about classic E&S property, that tends to be more exposed to the coast, right, and a little less in the middle of the country. Is that the same for your book?

邁克，我很欣賞您在財產手冊上提供的評論，並指出您在（聽不清）上的位置，我想知道是否需要考慮您在那裡的地理風險。我想如果你想到一些經典的 E&S 地產，你會發現它往往更多地接觸海岸，對吧，而在國家中部則少一些。你的書也是這樣嗎？

No. I think ours is more balanced. We certainly write a lot of Southeastern coastal commercial property, but we write tough E&S occupancy is all over the place. Industrial type businesses, recyclers, manufacturers, warehouses, et cetera. So our book is a nice balance between kind of fire-driven business versus the wind.

不，我認為我們的更加平衡。我們當然寫了很多東南沿海的商業地產，但我們寫的環境和社會佔用率到處都是。工業類型企業、回收商、製造商、倉庫等。因此，我們的書在火驅動的業務與風驅動的業務之間取得了很好的平衡。

Got it. Okay. And then just switching to premium growth here. And I'm trying to think about in terms of product mix. So when I look at your 1Q as a base, right, because that's where there's disclosure here by line. I think if you look at the stats statements, property more than doubled, right, favorable premium growth is about 45%. Casualty was higher, but not anywhere in your property. Was that a similar sort of growth pattern for this quarter as well, right, where a property is just much, much stronger than casualty in terms of growth?

知道了。好的。然後在這里切換到溢價增長。我正在嘗試從產品組合的角度進行思考。因此，當我將您的 1Q 作為基礎時，對吧，因為這是逐行披露的地方。我想，如果你看一下統計數據，你會發現房地產增長了一倍多，對吧，有利的保費增長約為 45%。傷亡人數更高，但不是在您的財產中的任何地方。本季度的增長模式是否也是類似的，對吧，就增長而言，財產比傷亡要強得多？

Yes, I think it would be directionally similar.

是的，我認為這在方向上是相似的。

Okay. And then sort of a similar question, but along the lines of geographic spread here and hear anything about data that you can get from the surplus lines offices. So I think for the second quarter, Florida and Texas were up close to 60%. California, maybe 20-ish percent, right, so altogether, those 3 states may be about 50% growth. Clearly, you grew above that. Does it imply that the rest of the country, which is about 50% of the E&S market, I guess -- was that sleeve growing 50-ish percent as well?

好的。然後是一個類似的問題，但沿著這裡的地理分佈，聽到有關您可以從盈餘線辦公室獲得的數據的任何信息。所以我認為第二季度，佛羅里達州和德克薩斯州的增長率接近 60%。加利福尼亞州可能增長 20% 左右，對吧，所以這 3 個州總共可能增長 50% 左右。顯然，你的成長超越了這一點。這是否意味著該國其他地區（我猜大約佔 E&S 市場的 50%）——這一袖子也增長了 50% 左右嗎？

I don't have the data in front of us here on a state by state. But I would say, generally speaking, yes, the broad E&S market is quite attractive today. Candidly, just as it has been in the last 4 or 5 years. It's really a -- it's a very attractive market. And as we've said, we've got some a good level of confidence going forward as well based on submission growth and some of the headlines around some of these things in the fronting market and inflation's impact on reserves, there's a lot of rationale for kind of a continued level of confidence.

我面前沒有各州的數據。但我想說，總的來說，是的，當今廣闊的 E&S 市場相當有吸引力。坦率地說，就像過去四五年一樣。這確實是一個非常有吸引力的市場。正如我們所說，基於提交的增長以及圍繞前沿市場中的一些事情的一些頭條新聞以及通貨膨脹對儲備的影響，我們對未來有一定的信心，有很多理由以獲得持續的信心。

Okay. And then just last for me, I'd be curious to hear your views on the property insurance market here. Clearly, it's a pretty good environment. Do you think this sticks around until '24, I suppose, if what the reinsurers are saying come to pass, right? If they think '24 will be a hard year for them, then that would have implications for other primary companies. But I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on where you see the property market going? And if you see any knock on effects for casualty lines?

好的。最後，我很想听聽您對這裡的財產保險市場的看法。可見，這是一個非常好的環境。我想，如果再保險公司所說的話成真，你認為這種情況會持續到 24 年嗎？如果他們認為 24 年對他們來說將是艱難的一年，那麼這將對其他主要公司產生影響。但我很想听聽您對房地產市場走向的看法？您是否發現對傷亡人數有任何連鎖反應？

I'll start, and then I'll hand it to Brian. I would just say, yes, I would be pretty optimistic this year and next. Eventually capitalism is such that if people are getting attractive returns, it's going to attract new entrants and new capital into the space. And you'd see uptick in competition and probably an abatement in some of the rate increases. But I feel pretty positive for the near term.

我先開始，然後把它交給布萊恩。我只想說，是的，今年和明年我會非常樂觀。最終，資本主義是這樣的，如果人們獲得有吸引力的回報，它將吸引新進入者和新資本進入該領域。你會看到競爭的加劇，並且可能會看到一些費率上漲的減弱。但我對近期感覺相當樂觀。

I would say we've read the same things from some of the larger primary companies and/or brokers. And I would say the stuff I've read those people saying that, and it's going to last until 2024 are in a good spot to know like they're going to have the best view of that because they're going to see a lot of the data and a lot of the accounts. So the people I've read, I would trust that their guess is probably better than most people's.

我想說，我們從一些較大的主要公司和/或經紀人那裡讀到了同樣的內容。我想說的是，我讀到過那些人這麼說的，而且這種情況將持續到 2024 年，他們處於一個很好的位置，知道他們將對此有最好的看法，因為他們會看到很多的數據和大量的賬戶。所以我讀過的人相信他們的猜測可能比大多數人的更好。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

The next question is from Andrew Andersen with Jefferies.

下一個問題來自杰弗里斯的安德魯·安德森。

Some really strong growth year-to-date. And if we look at it on a premium to surplus basis, it looks like it might be ticking up towards 1.1x, 1.2x. Just given the mix shift and growth in property, how should we kind of be thinking about the, I guess, ideal premium to surplus ratio here?

今年迄今為止，一些增長確實強勁。如果我們從溢價與盈餘的角度來看，它看起來可能會上升到 1.1 倍、1.2 倍。考慮到房地產的組合轉變和增長，我想我們應該如何考慮這裡的理想溢價與盈餘比率？

I would say there's no explicit ratio in the A.M. Best, BCAR model. But directionally, we're stretching our capital close to the max, we expect to borrow some more money here shortly to inject a little bit more capital into the insurance company 1.2-ish, 1.3 somewhere in there is probably the max. It varies too by mix of business, it depends on how much reinsurance we have on a given line and that type of thing. But I think 1.2 to 1.3 makes sense.

我想說上午沒有明確的比例。最好的，BCAR模型。但從方向上看，我們的資本接近最大值，我們預計很快會在這裡借更多的錢，向保險公司注入更多的資本 1.2 左右，1.3 的某個地方可能是最大值。它也因業務組合而異，這取決於我們在給定線路和此類事物上擁有多少再保險。但我認為1.2到1.3是有道理的。

And you mentioned conservatism in just the back book of reserves here. Is there an equal level of conservatism in how we're thinking about the underlying loss ratios in current year picks, which looked like it improved 60 bps, 70 bps year-over-year. I don't know if there's anything one-off in this quarter's number, but how should we think about that?

您在儲備金後面的書中提到了保守主義。我們在考慮今年選股的潛在損失率時是否也有同樣程度的保守主義，看起來同比提高了 60 個基點、70 個基點。我不知道這個季度的數字是否有一次性的情況，但我們應該如何看待這一點？

Yes. I mean I think the reserves that we set up for future claims are a big component of those loss ratios. So I think there's some conservatism in those picks. There's also some variability quarter-to-quarter just based on the flow of claims being reported and settled, that type of thing. But in general, I think investors should be confident that Kinsale's reserves are conservatively stated, and just as they have for years, they're likely to develop favorably over time as we settle out those claims.

是的。我的意思是，我認為我們為未來索賠設立的準備金是這些損失率的重要組成部分。所以我認為這些選擇中有一些保守主義。僅根據報告和解決的索賠流程，季度與季度之間也存在一些差異。但總的來說，我認為投資者應該相信金塞爾的儲備金是保守表述的，就像多年來一樣，隨著我們解決這些索賠，它們可能會隨著時間的推移而有利地發展。

And maybe one last one for me. Just on the expense ratio, a lot of year-over-year improvement in the net commission ratio. I think the other underwriting expense ratio was roughly flat, perhaps just reflecting some employee comp and benefits here, but are there still some scale opportunities on the other underwriting expense ratio?

也許對我來說是最後一件事。僅就費用比率而言，淨佣金比率同比改善不少。我認為其他承保費用率大致持平，也許只是反映了這裡的一些員工薪酬和福利，但其他承保費用率是否仍然存在一些規模機會？

Yes, definitely. As I look back, when we IPO-ed, we were about 16 -- a little bit over 16% other underwriting expenses. And year-to-date, we're between 10% and 11% and so the big driver of that progress has been constantly looking for ways to drive more automation or technology into our business process. And I think we've achieved a lot over the years. But I think it's -- we've got ways to go. We've got a lot of opportunity to improve there in the years ahead.

當然是。我回顧一下，當我們進行首次公開募股時，我們的規模約為 16%，略高於其他承銷費用的 16%。今年迄今為止，我們的比例在 10% 到 11% 之間，因此這一進步的主要推動力一直在不斷尋找方法，將更多自動化或技術引入我們的業務流程。我認為這些年來我們取得了很多成就。但我認為——我們還有很長的路要走。未來幾年我們有很多改進的機會。

I think it's one reason why the decision we made 14 years ago when we founded the company to make technology a core competency of our business alongside of underwriting and claim handling was the right decision. It's a decision that continues to yield benefits, especially around efficiency in our business, but not just there. It also positively impacts customer service, the amount of data we're able to collect, et cetera.

我認為這就是我們 14 年前創立公司時做出的決定的原因之一，即讓技術與承保和索賠處理一起成為我們業務的核心競爭力。這一決定將繼續帶來好處，特別是在我們業務效率方面，但不僅限於此。它還對客戶服務、我們能夠收集的數據量等產生積極影響。

The next question is from Pablo Singzon with JPMorgan.

下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Pablo Singzon。

So just one for me. Another specialty carrier that writes construction liability mentioned in its earnings call that it sees the market that is highly competitive and that contractors have begun to slight -- up to project slightly lower revenues. I was curious if you're seeing any revenue in your own book of business.

所以只給我一個。另一家承保建築責任的專業承運商在財報電話會議中提到，它認為市場競爭激烈，承包商已經開始忽視這一點，甚至預計收入將略有下降。我很好奇您是否在自己的業務賬簿中看到任何收入。

Yes. I would say we are seeing that is probably, I would say, on the construction side, it's one of the areas where you're starting to see some effect from the economy, the higher interest rates and the flow-through into the construction business itself.

是的。我想說，我們可能會看到，在建築方面，這是你開始看到經濟、更高的利率和流入建築業務的一些影響的領域之一本身。

We have no further questions at this time. We'll turn it back to the presenters for any closing remarks.

目前我們沒有進一步的問題。我們會將其轉回給主持人以供結束語。

Okay. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us, and we look forward to speaking with you again in a few months. And with that, we'll go ahead and adjourn today.

好的。好的，謝謝大家加入我們，我們期待著幾個月後再次與你們交談。就這樣，我們今天就休會了。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect. Thank you.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接。謝謝。