Korn Ferry (KFY) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Korn Ferry First Quarter Fiscal Year 2024 Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded for replay purposes. We have also made available in the Investor Relations section of our website at kornferry.com, a copy of the financial presentation that we'll be reviewing with you today.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的耐心等待，並歡迎光輝國際 2024 財年第一季電話會議。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音以供重播之用。我們也在 kornferry.com 網站的投資者關係部分提供了我們今天將與您一起審查的財務簡報的副本。

Before I turn the call over to your host, Mr. Gary Burnison, let me first read a cautionary statement to investors. Certain statements made in the call today, such as those relating to future performance, plans and goals, constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

在我將電話轉交給東道主加里·伯尼森先生之前，讓我先宣讀一份對投資者的警告聲明。今天電話會議中所做的某些陳述，例如與未來績效、計畫和目標相關的陳述，構成 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述。

Although the company believes the expectations reflected in such forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, Investors are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such statements. Actual results in future periods may differ materially from those currently expected or desired because of a number of risks and uncertainties, which are beyond the company's control.

儘管該公司認為此類前瞻性陳述中反映的預期是基於合理的假設，但投資者仍應注意不要過度依賴此類陳述。由於許多超出公司控制範圍的風險和不確定性，未來時期的實際結果可能與當前預期或期望的結果有重大差異。

Additional information concerning such risks and uncertainties can be found in the release relating to this presentation and in the periodic and other reports filed by the company with the SEC, including the company's annual report for fiscal year 2023 and the company's soon to be filed quarterly report for the quarter ended July 31, 2023.

有關此類風險和不確定性的更多信息，請參閱與本簡報相關的新聞稿以及公司向 SEC 提交的定期報告和其他報告，包括公司 2023 財年的年度報告和公司即將提交的季度報告截至2023 年7 月31 日的季度。

Also, some of the comments today may reference non-GAAP financial measures such as constant currency amount, EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA. Additional information concerning these measures, including reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measure is contained in the financial presentation and earnings release relating to this call, both of which are posted in the Investor Relations section of the company's website at www.kornferry.com.

此外，今天的一些評論可能會引用非公認會計準則財務指標，例如固定貨幣金額、EBITDA 和調整後 EBITDA。有關這些措施的更多信息，包括與最直接可比的GAAP 財務措施的調節，包含在與本次電話會議相關的財務演示和收益發布中，兩者均發佈在公司網站www.kornferry.com 的投資者關係部分。 。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Mr. Burnison. Please go ahead, Mr. Burnison.

這樣，我會將電話轉給伯尼森先生。請繼續，伯尼森先生。

Okay. Thank you, Greg, and good afternoon, everybody, and thanks for joining us. Our team is going to get into the numbers in a second, but I first want to say how incredibly proud I am. Proud of our firm, of our colleagues. And our diversification strategy is the right one. I mean it continues to positively influence our results.

好的。謝謝格雷格，大家下午好，謝謝您加入我們。我們的團隊將立即討論這些數字，但我首先想說我是多麼自豪。為我們的公司、我們的同事感到自豪。我們的多元化策略是正確的。我的意思是它繼續對我們的結果產生積極影響。

I would point out that clearly, the market demand for perm placement, talent acquisition has softened from post pandemic highs, but the rest of the portfolio has performed absolutely as designed. I mean our consulting and digital businesses have never been more meaningful, especially when you think about tomorrow's economy, when there's going to be continued demographic, shortages, skill shifts all over the globe.

我想明確指出的是，市場對燙髮、人才招募的需求已經從疫情後的高點回落，但投資組合的其餘部分絕對按照設計進行。我的意思是，我們的諮詢和數位業務從未如此有意義，尤其是當你考慮未來的經濟時，全球範圍內將持續存在人口、短缺和技能轉移。

I really -- as I step back and tap Google Earth, I think much of the business world is in the midst of a multi-quarter cyclical reset. Not only in how we work, but also adapting to an interest rate environment that we haven't seen in almost 2 decades. This transitory period is going to bring about I think, significant change and, more importantly, opportunity for Korn Ferry. And we're going to seize that opportunity with a 3-point strategy.

我真的 - 當我退後一步並點擊 Google 地球時，我認為商業世界的大部分都處於多季度的周期性重置之中。不僅是我們的工作方式，還有我們對近 20 年來從未見過的利率環境的適應。我認為，這個過渡時期將為光輝國際帶來重大變化，更重要的是，帶來​​機會。我們將透過三分戰略抓住這個機會。

Number one, Optimize; two, Innovate; and three, Consolidate, and Bob is going to get into that a little bit more in his remarks. And I would just conclude by saying, while we're certainly not where we used to be, we're definitely on the road to where we want to be, the firm that enables people and organizations to be more of that.

第一，優化；二、創新；第三，鞏固，鮑伯將在他的演講中進一步討論這一點。最後我想說的是，雖然我們肯定已經不再是過去的樣子，但我們肯定正在朝著我們想要的方向前進，成為一家讓人們和組織能夠實現這一目標的公司。

Bob, I'll turn it over to you.

鮑勃，我會把它交給你。

Great. Thanks, Gary, and good afternoon and good morning, depending on where you're calling in from. Listen, I echo Gary's comments and that we're pleased with the results from the first quarter of the fiscal year as our earnings and profitability remained sequentially stable, despite the challenging macroeconomic backdrop as well as a seasonably slower fee revenue quarter.

偉大的。謝謝，加里，下午好，早上好，取決於您從哪裡打電話。聽著，我同意加里的評論，我們對本財年第一季的業績感到滿意，因為儘管宏觀經濟背景充滿挑戰，而且費用收入季度季節性放緩，但我們的收入和盈利能力仍然保持穩定。

As I step back and put the quarter in context, I'm also pleased that our results are a clear demonstration that we continue to successfully execute our strategy. We built a company with a portfolio of core and integrated human capital solutions that are both highly relevant in the world today as well as synergistic with respect to top line.

當我退一步回顧本季的背景時，我也很高興我們的結果清楚地表明我們繼續成功執行我們的策略。我們建立了一家擁有核心和綜合人力資本解決方案組合的公司，這些解決方案與當今世界高度相關，並且在營收方面具有協同作用。

In an environment where other employment services companies are seeing downward pressure on their top line. As we've executed our strategy, our fee revenue was essentially flat year-over-year as client demand around solutions such as workforce transformation, assessment and succession, interim contract labor, offset the expected moderation in permanent placement talent acquisition.

在其他就業服務公司面臨營收下行壓力的環境下。在我們執行策略時，我們的費用收入比去年同期基本持平，因為客戶對勞動力轉型、評估和繼任、臨時合約工等解決方案的需求抵消了永久安置人才招聘的預期放緩。

Now you heard Gary speak about our strategic focus going forward. Optimize, Innovate and Consolidate. So let me start with Optimize first. And we are going to continue to drive productivity by leveraging our cost base. In fact, if you take Q1 of FY '24 and compare that to Q3 of FY '20, that's the quarter right before the pandemic. Our fee revenue per employee is up 18%, okay?

現在您聽到加里談論我們未來的戰略重點。優化、創新、鞏固。那麼讓我先從優化開始。我們將繼續利用我們的成本基礎來提高生產力。事實上，如果您將 24 財年第一季與 20 財年第三季進行比較，您會發現那是疫情大流行之前的季度。我們每位員工的費用收入成長了 18%，好嗎？

We will also continue to pursue opportunities in faster-growing economies with governments that are driving economic infrastructure and human capital initiatives. With our marquee and regional accounts and with our cross line of business referrals.

我們也將繼續與推動經濟基礎設施和人力資本計畫的政府一起在快速成長的經濟體中尋求機會。透過我們的大帳篷和區域客戶以及我們的跨業務線推薦。

Now let me turn to Innovate. We will be at the forefront of talent in organizational data, ensuring that our IP is fit for purpose for the foreseeable future. We're going to continue to leverage new technologies as they emerge, such as generative AI to drive greater client impact. We'll continue with our investment to monetize our intellectual property through our digital business and increase our emphasis and investment in our expansive and proprietary data.

現在讓我來談談創新。我們將處於組織資料人才的最前沿，確保我們的智慧財產權在可預見的未來適合用途。我們將繼續利用新興技術（例如生成式人工智慧）來推動更大的客戶影響力。我們將繼續投資，透過我們的數位業務將我們的智慧財產權貨幣化，並加強對我們廣泛的專有數據的重視和投資。

Last, I'll touch upon Consolidate, where our efforts are going to be focused on continuing our investment in strategically aligned, less cyclical, faster growing and larger addressable markets. We're going to continue to focus on building out a global, executive and professional interim business. Expanding our business in leadership and professional development as well as our capabilities in leadership development outsourcing, and we'll continue to explore opportunities in strategic and operational consulting.

最後，我將談到整合，我們的努力將集中在繼續投資於策略一致、週期性較小、成長更快和更大的潛在市場。我們將繼續專注於建立一個全球性、執行力和專業性的臨時業務。擴大我們在領導力和專業發展方面的業務以及我們在領導力發展外包方面的能力，我們將繼續探索策略和營運諮詢方面的機會。

Now with that, let me turn the call over to Greg, who's going to take you through some of the overall company financial highlights.

現在，讓我把電話轉給格雷格，他將帶您了解公司的一些整體財務亮點。

Thanks, Bob. In the first quarter, global fee revenue was $699 million, flat year-over-year at actual foreign exchange rates and at constant currency. Fee revenue continued to moderate from post-pandemic highs in our permanent placement talent acquisition businesses and was offset by stable revenue for both consulting and digital and revenue from our recent investments in interim services.

謝謝，鮑伯。第一季度，全球手續費收入為 6.99 億美元，以實際匯率和固定匯率計算，與去年同期持平。我們的永久安置人才獲取業務的費用收入繼續從疫情後的高位回落，但被諮詢和數位業務的穩定收入以及我們最近對臨時服務投資的收入所抵消。

By line of business, measured year-over-year at constant currency, fee revenue was down 12% for Executive Search, down 21% for Professional Search Permanent Placement and down 16% for RPO. In contrast, fee revenue growth measured year-over-year at constant currency was up 1% for consulting, up 5% for digital and aided by our recent acquisitions of ICS and Salo, fee revenue for interim services was up $59 million.

以業務線計算，以固定匯率計算，高階主管獵人頭的費用收入下降了 12%，專業獵人頭永久安置的費用收入下降了 21%，RPO 的費用收入下降了 16%。相較之下，以固定貨幣計算的費用收入同比增長，諮詢服務增長了1%，數位服務增長了5%，並且在我們最近收購ICS 和Salo 的幫助下，臨時服務的費用收入增長了5,900 萬美元。

Consolidated new business in the first quarter, excluding RPO was up 1% year-over-year at actual rates and up 2% at constant currency. Consistent with fee revenue, new business in the first quarter moderated most in Executive Search and Permanent Placement Professional Search. Earnings and profitability measured year-over-year also moderated in the first quarter. Adjusted EBITDA in the first quarter was $96 million with an adjusted EBITDA margin of 13.7%.

第一季合併新業務（不包括 RPO）以實際匯率計算年增 1%，以固定匯率計算成長 2%。與費用收入一致，第一季的新業務在高階主管搜尋和永久安置專業搜尋方面表現最為溫和。第一季的獲利和獲利能力較去年同期也有所放緩。第一季調整後 EBITDA 為 9,600 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 13.7%。

Consistent with recent quarters, earnings and profitability in the first quarter were impacted by the mix shift in fee revenue by line of business investments in head count to preserve fee-generating and execution capacity and product development initiatives, specifically for digital.

與最近幾季一致，第一季的收益和獲利能力受到了費用收入混合變化的影響，這些變化是為了保持費用產生和執行能力以及產品開發計劃（特別是數位領域）而進行的業務線投資。

Additionally, it should also be noted that adjusted EBITDA in the first quarter was essentially flat, sequentially with a 30 basis point improvement in margin driven primarily by cost control measures implemented over the last 2 quarters.

此外，還應該指出的是，第一季調整後的 EBITDA 基本持平，利潤率環比提高了 30 個基點，這主要是由於過去兩個季度實施的成本控制措施所致。

Finally, our adjusted fully diluted earnings per share in the first quarter were $0.99, down $0.51 or 34% year-over-year. Adjusted fully diluted earnings per share exclude approximately $6 million or $0.10 per share of restructuring, integration and acquisition costs primarily related to our acquisitions as well as an incremental reduction in our real estate footprint.

最後，我們第一季調整後的完全稀釋每股收益為 0.99 美元，年減 0.51 美元，即 34%。調整後的完全稀釋每股收益不包括約 600 萬美元或每股 0.10 美元的重組、整合和收購成本，主要與我們的收購以及房地產足跡的逐步減少有關。

Our investable cash position at the end of the first quarter was $481 million. In the first quarter, we deployed $34 million of cash. $4 million for repurchases, $8 million for dividends, $13 million for capital expenditures and $9 million for debt service.

第一季末我們的可投資現金部位為 4.81 億美元。第一季度，我們部署了 3,400 萬美元現金。 400萬美元用於回購，800萬美元用於股息，1300萬美元用於資本支出，900萬美元用於償債。

Now I'll turn the call over to Tiffany to review our operating segments in more detail.

現在我將把電話轉給蒂芙尼，更詳細地審查我們的營運部門。

Thanks, Greg. Starting with KF Digital, global fee revenue in the first quarter was $88 million, which was up 5% year-over-year at actual and at constant currency. Digital subscription and license fee revenue in the first quarter was $33 million, which was approximately 37% of fee revenue for the quarter. The increase was primarily due to the continued execution of our strategy to move from point-of-sale solutions to longer-term subscription and license sales. And also an increase in assessment tools as the technology industry began investing again with a focus on leadership development.

謝謝，格雷格。從 KF Digital 開始，第一季全球手續費收入為 8,800 萬美元，以實際匯率和固定匯率計算，年增 5%。第一季的數位訂閱和授權費收入為 3,300 萬美元，約佔該季度費用收入的 37%。這一成長主要是由於我們繼續執行從銷售點解決方案轉向長期訂閱和授權銷售的策略。隨著科技業開始再次投資，並專注於領導力發展，評估工具也隨之增加。

Global new business for KF Digital was $93 million. With $32 million or 34% of the total tied to subscription and license sales. For Consulting, fee revenue in the first quarter was $168 million, which was up approximately 1% at both actual and constant currency. Fee revenue growth was strongest in assessment and succession, which increased 10% year-over-year. Average hourly bill rates continue to climb, now close to $400 an hour, which is up over $30 an hour from just 1 year ago.

KF Digital 的全球新業務為 9,300 萬美元。其中 3,200 萬美元（佔總銷售額的 34%）與訂閱和授權銷售相關。對於諮詢業務，第一季的費用收入為 1.68 億美元，以實際貨幣和固定匯率計算均成長約 1%。評估和繼任費用收入成長最為強勁，年增 10%。平均每小時帳單費率持續攀升，目前接近每小時 400 美元，比一年前增加了 30 美元以上。

Additionally, global new business for Consulting in the first quarter was up 7% year-over-year at constant currency, with double-digit growth in EMEA and Latin America. The Professional Search and Interim business increased 29% at constant currency in the first quarter versus last year, driven by double-digit strength in North America and aided by the current year acquisitions. Total fee revenue was $142 million, up $43 million or 44% over the same time period.

此外，以固定匯率計算，第一季全球諮詢新業務年增 7%，其中歐洲、中東和非洲 (EMEA) 和拉丁美洲實現兩位數成長。受北美兩位數成長的推動以及本年度收購的推動，按固定匯率計算，第一季專業搜尋和臨時業務與去年相比成長了 29%。總費用收入為 1.42 億美元，年增 4,300 萬美元，即 44%。

Breaking down the quarter, growth in the interim business was more than enough to offset moderation in the Permanent Placement portion of the segment. Interim Services fee revenue grew to $84 million from $25 million in the same quarter of the prior year, driven primarily by the recent acquisitions. Permanent Placement fee revenue declined by $16 million to $58 million year-over-year, down 22% at actual, and down 21% at constant currency.

從本季來看，臨時業務的成長足以抵銷該部門永久安置部分的放緩。臨時服務費收入從去年同期的 2,500 萬美元增至 8,400 萬美元，這主要是由最近的收購推動的。永久安置費收入年減 1,600 萬美元，至 5,800 萬美元，實際下降 22%，以固定匯率計算下降 21%。

Moving on to Recruitment Process Outsourcing. New business for the first quarter was $48 million and total revenue under contract at the end of the quarter was approximately $680 million. Fee revenue totaled $96 million, which was down $18 million or 16% year-over-year and down approximately 16% at constant currency. Fee revenue was impacted by a moderation in hiring volume in the base and backlog. We see this slowdown as transitory and believe RPO is well positioned to benefit when hiring returns to more normalized levels in the base and the larger, more recent wins begin converting to fee revenue.

轉向招募流程外包。第一季新業務為 4,800 萬美元，季末合約總收入約為 6.8 億美元。費用收入總計 9,600 萬美元，年減 1,800 萬美元，或 16%，以固定匯率計算下降約 16%。費用收入受到基礎和積壓招募量放緩的影響。我們認為這種放緩是暫時的，並相信當招聘恢復到更加正常化的水平並且更大、更近期的勝利開始轉化為費用收入時，RPO 就能夠受益。

Although the quarterly new business can be choppy at times, the pipeline remains strong as RPO continues to win new business, a differentiated service offering in the marketplace, which includes our new data-driven recruiting technology, Nimble that uses -- that draws upon our unique data, IP and talent management expertise.

儘管季度新業務有時可能會出現波動，但隨著 RPO 繼續贏得新業務，管道仍然強勁，這是市場上的差異化服務產品，其中包括我們新的數據驅動招聘技術 Nimble，該技術利用了我們的獨特的數據、智慧財產權和人才管理專業知識。

Finally, global fee revenue for Executive Search in the first quarter was $205 million, and as expected, experienced a year-over-year decline of 12% at constant currency compared to the high growth rates enjoyed during the pandemic recovery in the first quarter of last year. Demand continued to moderate, most notably in North America and Latin America, followed by EMEA and APAC. Global new business in the first quarter for Executive Search was down 14% year-over-year at actual and at constant currency.

最後，第一季全球獵頭費用收入為 2.05 億美元，與去年第一季疫情復甦期間的高成長率相比，以固定匯率計算，年減了 12%。去年。需求持續放緩，尤其是北美和拉丁美洲，其次是歐洲、中東和非洲和亞太地區。以實際匯率和固定匯率計算，第一季獵人頭全球新業務年減 14%。

I will now turn the call back over to Bob to discuss our outlook for the second quarter of fiscal '24.

我現在將把電話轉回鮑勃，討論我們對 24 財年第二季的展望。

Great. Thanks, Tiffany. Now assuming no new major pandemic-related lockdowns or further changes in worldwide geopolitical conditions, economic conditions, financial markets and foreign exchange rates, we expect fee revenue in the second quarter of fiscal '24 to range from $675 million to $695 million. Our adjusted EBITDA margin to be 13.5% to 14% and our consolidated adjusted diluted earnings per share to range from $0.91 to $1.01. Finally, we expect our GAAP diluted earnings per share to range from $0.85 to $0.97.

偉大的。謝謝，蒂芙尼。現在假設沒有新的與大流行相關的重大封鎖或全球地緣政治狀況、經濟狀況、金融市場和外匯匯率的進一步變化，我們預計24 財年第二季度的費用收入將在6.75 億美元至6.95 億美元之間。我們調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 13.5% 至 14%，合併調整後稀釋每股收益為 0.91 美元至 1.01 美元。最後，我們預計 GAAP 攤薄後每股收益將在 0.85 美元至 0.97 美元之間。

Now in closing, we have amassed a unique collection of intellectual property, data, content and science that really is aligned to helping companies solve their business and human capital issues. With these assets, we will continue to partner with clients helping them build long-term talent strategies that balance company growth with the needs of employees. Also with the synergistic assets, which really touch every aspect of an employee's engagement with his or her employer, we are well positioned to continue to drive top line growth.

最後，我們累積了一系列獨特的智慧財產權、數據、內容和科學，真正有助於幫助公司解決業務和人力資本問題。憑藉這些資產，我們將繼續與客戶合作，幫助他們制定長期人才策略，平衡公司發展與員工需求。此外，憑藉協同資產，真正觸及員工與其雇主互動的各個方面，我們處於有利地位，可以繼續推動營收成長。

No business issue or problem has ever been solved without the involvement of people, and that's exactly where we come in, working through and with people. We help individuals and organizations exceed their potential every day.

沒有人的參與就無法解決任何業務問題，而這正是我們的切入點，透過人並與人一起工作。我們每天幫助個人和組織超越他們的潛力。

With that, we would be glad to answer any questions you may have.

因此，我們很樂意回答您的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of George Tong from Goldman Sachs.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自高盛的George Tong。

In the past, you've provided data on cross-selling interim search across your various segments, can you provide an update on cross-selling and include traction with business lines beyond interim, particularly within your marquee and regional accounts?

過去，您提供了各個細分市場交叉銷售臨時搜索的數據，您能否提供交叉銷售的最新信息，並包括臨時以外業務線的吸引力，特別是在您的大牌和區域帳戶內？

It continues to be very, very good. We find overall for the platform; number one, the global marquee and regional accounts are almost 40% of the portfolio. And then when you look at the cross referrals, they're typically in any quarter, 25% to 30%. And you would find that cross referral percentage to be higher into RPO in the Pro Search for sure. When you see the cross referrals into digital, it's about 35% or so.

它仍然非常非常好。我們發現該平台的整體情況；第一，全球大牌和區域帳戶幾乎佔投資組合的 40%。然後，當您查看交叉推薦時，您會發現它們通常位於任何季度，為 25% 到 30%。您肯定會發現專業搜尋中 RPO 的交叉推薦百分比更高。當你看到數位領域的交叉推薦時，大約有 35% 左右。

So overall, it continues to demonstrate that the strategy is working that we have more reasons to talk to clients. And that continues to be a huge opportunity for the firm.

總的來說，它繼續證明該策略正在發揮作用，我們有更多理由與客戶交談。這對公司來說仍然是一個巨大的機會。

Got it. That's helpful. And then within your RPO business, new business fell approximately 68% year-over-year to $48 million in the fiscal first quarter. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing within RPO and when you would expect new business trends to improve?

知道了。這很有幫助。然後，在第一財季的 RPO 業務中，新業務年減約 68% 至 4,800 萬美元。您能否談談您在 RPO 中看到的情況以及您預計新業務趨勢何時會改善？

Well, I think the -- one of the broader trends that's happening in what I really consider to be a multi-quarter cyclical reset is what I would call labor hoarding and it wasn't that long ago, 3.5 years ago when companies had to take pretty drastic measures given what's happening with COVID. Then you had this incredible uplift in demand almost overnight. You had the great resignation. And you saw people switching jobs, getting 20%, 25% salary bumps, and there was really a mad dash for talent.

嗯，我認為，在我真正認為的多季度週期性重置中發生的更廣泛趨勢之一就是我所說的勞動力囤積，就在不久前，3.5 年前，公司不得不鑑於新冠肺炎疫情，採取非常嚴厲的措施。然後幾乎一夜之間，需求就出現了令人難以置信的成長。你辭職了。你會看到人們換工作，薪水上漲 20%、25%，人才瘋狂湧入。

And I think that many CEOs have been reluctant to take drastic action on their workforce. And one of the hardest positions to recruit during the great resignation was actually recruiters. And so companies built up fairly robust HR staff, and I think what you're seeing now is in-sourcing, which is something that I haven't seen, this -- I think this is my 86th earnings call, and I just -- you typically don't see that at this point in a cycle. And I would call it labor hoarding. And so that's definitely impacted our RPO business.

我認為許多執行長一直不願意對員工採取激烈的行動。而大辭職期間最難招募的職位之一其實是招募人員。因此，公司建立了相當強大的人力資源團隊，我認為你現在看到的是內包，這是我從未見過的，我認為這是我的第 86 次財報電話會議，我只是 - - 您通常在周期的此時看不到這一點。我稱之為勞動力囤積。因此，這肯定會影響我們的 RPO 業務。

And when you look at new business, it does tend to be very, very lumpy. So the last couple of years, we've done about $600 million or so in new business in each of those years. In the first quarter, we did like 50 here. I would expect the second quarter that, that number will be substantially higher, maybe $100 million to $150 million. Now would I expect new business to be $600 million again in this year. No, I wouldn't. But would it be $525 million, $550 million. Yes, I think that's a reasonable estimate.

當你審視新業務時，你會發現它確實往往非常非常不穩定。因此，過去幾年，我們每年的新業務收入約為 6 億美元。在第一季度，我們這裡確實有 50 個。我預計第二季這個數字將會大幅增加，可能達到 1 億至 1.5 億美元。現在我預計今年的新業務將再次達到 6 億美元。不，我不會。但會是 5.25 億美元、5.5 億美元嗎？是的，我認為這是一個合理的估計。

And -- but look, the pipeline, as Tiffany said, looks very, very good. The backlog looks good. But clearly, in-sourcing and labor hoarding is absolutely having an impact on that RPO business. No question about it.

但是，正如蒂芙尼所說，管道看起來非常非常好。積壓看起來不錯。但顯然，內包和勞動力囤積絕對會對 RPO 業務產生影響。毫無疑問。

And Gary, I'll just -- George, this is Bob. Just to waiting a little bit. If you notice, when we talk about new business, we always do it without RPO because of the choppiness that we see in that business. So you can't really look at 1 quarter in isolation and say that new business is up or down. I think you have to look at it over some time horizon.

加里，我只是──喬治，這是鮑伯。只是要稍等一下。如果您注意到，當我們談論新業務時，我們總是在沒有 RPO 的情況下進行，因為我們在該業務中看到了波動性。因此，你不能真正孤立地看待第一個季度並說新業務是上升還是下降。我認為你必須在一段時間內審視它。

In fact, if you go back last year in FY '23, was like $150 million in Q1. It was $290 million in Q2, it was $44 million in Q3 and $115 million in Q4. So you don't see the sort of smooth linear pattern in RPO that perhaps you do in the other businesses. So you just have to keep that in mind as you think about the RPO new business. And as Gary said, we feel very, very good about the pipeline and the strength of that pipeline.

事實上，如果你回顧去年 23 財年，第一季的銷售額約為 1.5 億美元。第二季為 2.9 億美元，第三季為 4,400 萬美元，第四季為 1.15 億美元。因此，您在 RPO 中看不到其他業務中可能看到的那種平滑的線性模式。因此，在考慮 RPO 新業務時，您只需記住這一點。正如加里所說，我們對管道及其強度感到非常非常好。

Your next question comes from the line of Mark Marcon from Baird.

您的下一個問題來自貝爾德 (Baird) 的馬克馬孔 (Mark Marcon)。

I was wondering, Gary, you talked a little bit about this reset and lasting a few quarters and particularly getting used to the higher for longer interest rates. Aside from the labor hoarding that you're observing, what other factors are you thinking about? And you mentioned that you might be able to take advantage of some of those. What are you thinking about from that perspective?

我想知道，加里，您談到了這次重置並持續了幾個季度，特別是習慣了長期較高的利率。除了您觀察到的勞動力囤積之外，您還在考慮哪些其他因素？您提到您也許可以利用其中的一些優勢。從這個角度你在想什麼？

Well, I think our Consulting business is perfectly positioned to take advantage of -- companies are going to continue to execute, I think, a strategy that somewhat mirrors ours. I think you have to optimize what you have. You have to innovate, or you have to consolidate. And when I look at some of the new wins in the consulting business, they're absolutely around companies optimizing and reorganizing and restructuring, right.

嗯，我認為我們的諮詢業務完全可以利用——我認為，公司將繼續執行一項與我們的策略有些相似的策略。我認為你必須優化你所擁有的。你必須創新，或者你必須整合。當我看到諮詢業務中的一些新勝利時，它們絕對是圍繞著公司的優化、重組和重組，對吧。

We haven't seen the impact of a higher cost of carry of higher interest rates, really. I mean we've seen a little bit of it. And the level of consumer savings that they had, at least in the United States, has been that's lasted way longer than what people would have thought 6 quarters ago.

事實上，我們還沒有看到更高利率帶來的更高持有成本的影響。我的意思是我們已經看到了一些。至少在美國，消費者儲蓄水準的持續時間比人們在六個季度前想像的要長得多。

But I think that this -- the companies are absolutely -- you can only shrink the packaging and raise the pricing so much. And what we're starting to see, and particularly the consulting businesses, organizations and governments turning to us on how they can rethink their organizational structure their people, their talent, all of that. So I think that's a great opportunity for us, and to continue to use the digital platform as well that we have to drive change within organizations.

但我認為，這些公司絕對是只能縮小包裝並大幅提高定價。我們開始看到，特別是諮詢企業、組織和政府向我們求助，詢問他們如何重新考慮他們的組織結構、人員、人才等等。因此，我認為這對我們來說是一個很好的機會，並且繼續使用數位平台，我們必須推動組織內部的變革。

Great. And I mean you have a lot of high-level discussions. I mean when you're talking to some of the business leaders at some of your marquee accounts. I mean, what is your sense for how they're thinking about like how long this is going to last?

偉大的。我的意思是你們進行了很多高層討論。我的意思是當你在一些大客戶中與一些商業領袖交談時。我的意思是，你對他們如何思考這種情況會持續多久有何感想？

Well, it varies. Some are more optimistic than others. And I think it does depend what geography this summarizes in parts of the world where things are just going all out and very, very robust, and there's others where they have a more pessimistic -- pessimistic mood. But you just -- you look, you step back, and the reality is over 2 to 3 decades, much of the world has been used to cheap money and low interest rates. That is being reset, and it's being reset to, I think, a more a more historical norm.

嗯，情況各不相同。有些人比其他人更樂觀。我認為這確實取決於世界上某些地區的地理位置，這些地區的情況正在全力以赴，非常非常強勁，而另一些地區則有更悲觀的情緒。但你看，你退後一步，現實是在兩到三十年裡，世界大部分地區已經習慣了廉價資金和低利率。這正在重置，我認為，它正在重置為更具歷史性的規範。

And companies are going to have to adapt to that environment. I really don't see that changing over the next few quarters. Now for us and for the business that we're in, not only on the consulting side, but look, the labor force really hasn't grown. And if you look out longer term, there's real demographic challenges that most Western economies have, and I think that's extraordinarily positive for our business.

公司將不得不適應這種環境。我確實認為這種情況在接下來的幾個季度不會發生變化。現在對於我們以及我們從事的業務來說，不僅在諮詢方面，而且看起來，勞動力確實沒有成長。如果從長遠來看，大多數西方經濟體都面臨著真正的人口挑戰，我認為這對我們的業務非常有利。

And I think that -- the concept around flexibility and work and people living longer and wanting to contribute, I look at the interim business and say that, that should be a $1 billion business for Korn Ferry. And that's what we're going to continue to invest in that market, particularly around skill positions, technologists, finance and accounting, supply chain, that's a big market opportunity for us.

我認為，圍繞著靈活性和工作以及人們壽命更長並希望做出貢獻的概念，我看著臨時業務並說，這對光輝國際來說應該是 10 億美元的業務。這就是我們將繼續在該市場投資的內容，特別是在技能職位、技術專家、財務和會計、供應鏈方面，這對我們來說是一個巨大的市場機會。

I personally think that this is multi-quarter. I think that this kind of environment that we're in now, barring some disaster. I think it's -- I think we're in this for a little bit here.

我個人認為這是多季的。我認為我們現在所處的這種環境，除非發生一些災難。我認為——我認為我們已經在這裡討論了一會兒。

Agreed. Gary, with regards to the interim business, you gave us the total revenue numbers. What was the organic growth within Salo and the different components that you've bought, what are you seeing in terms of just organic growth with regard to that business?

同意。加里，關於臨時業務，您向我們提供了總收入數據。 Salo 內部的有機成長以及您購買的不同組件是什麼？您對該業務的有機成長有何看法？

Yes. When I look at -- let me just go to new business, okay? So I'll just take the trailing, let's take trailing 4 months new business, not revenue. I would say that same-store sales, new business in interim is down about 6% or so, in actual dollars would be down 2%. So same-store sales organic down about 6%.

是的。當我看到──讓我去開展新業務，好嗎？所以我只採用過去 4 個月的新業務，而不是收入。我想說的是，同店銷售額、新業務暫時下降了約 6% 左右，以實際美元計算將下降 2%。因此同店銷售額有機下降約 6%。

Actually pretty good considering the environment. Is it getting a little bit worse by month or [indiscernibly] just hold and steady?

其實考慮到環境還不錯。是每個月變得更糟還是[難以察覺地]保持穩定？

Yes. No, it's steady. I mean it's exactly like the Executive Search business. I take trailing 4 months, and it's about the same. It's down kind of 13%, 14%. This is new business, not revenue. And Consulting, by the way, is up 14% trailing 4 months. So the strategy is absolutely bearing out.

是的。不，很穩定。我的意思是，這就像獵人頭業務一樣。我查了 4 個月的數據，結果也差不多。下降了 13%、14%。這是新業務，而不是收入。順便說一句，諮詢業在過去 4 個月中增長了 14%。所以這個策略絕對是可行的。

Great. Can you talk a little bit about...

偉大的。能稍微談談嗎...

Mark, the only thing I would add to that is when you look at the interim businesses, we're feeling more in the -- similar to what's happening in the industry in the IT vertical than in the executive or F&A areas in that business.

馬克，我唯一要補充的是，當你看到臨時業務時，我們的感覺更多的是——類似於 IT 垂直行業中發生的事情，而不是該業務中的執行或 F&A 領域。

But the IT is a little bit softer, Bob?

但 IT 有點軟，鮑伯？

Yes. That's the area that's where we're feeling the predominant decline.

是的。這就是我們感受到主要下降的領域。

Yes. And then EMEA, with regards to Executive Search was fairly resilient, there's lots of reports about Germany going into recession. The U.K. is having issues. What would you explain the resilience in EMEA on a constant currency basis, what's driving that? And then can you also like drill down a little bit on the margins because the margins did decline significantly in that portion of the business despite revenue being relatively resilient?

是的。然後，歐洲、中東和非洲地區的高階主管獵人頭相當有彈性，有許多關於德國陷入衰退的報導。英國有問題。您如何解釋歐洲、中東和非洲地區在固定貨幣基礎上的彈性，是什麼推動了這種彈性？然後，您是否還可以稍微深入了解利潤率，因為儘管收入相對有彈性，但該部分業務的利潤率確實大幅下降？

I'll let Bob comment on the margins. I do have good line of sight into and since I was there for quite some time. There are parts of EMEA that you could probably guess that are growing extraordinarily well. And then there are other parts such as the country you mentioned that that's not quite the case.

我會讓鮑伯在頁邊評論。我確實有很好的視線，因為我在那裡待了很長一段時間。您可能會猜到，歐洲、中東和非洲地區的某些地區發展得非常好。還有其他一些地方，例如你提到的國家，情況並非如此。

I think it's -- I think, number one, you have to look at our global marquee and regional account strategy. And I think that, that is working globally and it's certainly working in EMEA. And I think the investment that we've made and how we've positioned the portfolio there has turned out to be exactly right.

我認為，第一，你必須看看我們的全球品牌和區域客戶策略。我認為，這在全球範圍內都有效，而且在歐洲、中東和非洲地區也確實有效。我認為我們所做的投資以及我們如何定位投資組合被證明是完全正確的。

We have world-class people. The cross-referral rates are very, very healthy. So I think it's a combination of all of those. But you're right. I mean, look, it's not one size does not fit all. And there are a couple of countries that are more challenged certainly than others.

我們擁有世界一流的人才。交叉推薦率非常非常健康。所以我認為這是所有這些的結合。但你是對的。我的意思是，看，這不是一種尺寸不能適合所有人。有幾個國家比其他國家面臨的挑戰肯定更大。

But again, you just step back, and you look at this and you say, labor markets have not grown. There is -- there continues to be despite what I talked about, look, look at labor hoarding. There continues to be skill shortages, and there's going to be demographic shortages, too.

但同樣，你退後一步，看看這個，你會說，勞動市場並沒有成長。儘管我談到了這些，但仍然存在，看看勞動力囤積現象。技能短缺仍然存在，人口短缺也將存在。

So I'd point to those factors for the EMEA growth. And then Bob, on the margins.

因此，我想指出歐洲、中東和非洲地區成長的這些因素。然後是鮑勃，處於邊緣。

I would say, Mark, on the margin side, one of the things we've talked about over the past couple of calls is workforce rebalancing, right? And so one of the things we're doing very consistently nowadays is taking a look at our workforce, where are the opportunities, where do we have capacity and readjusting the staffing levels accordingly.

我想說，馬克，在邊際方面，我們在過去幾次電話會議中討論的事情之一是勞動力重新平衡，對吧？因此，我們現在一直在做的事情之一就是審視我們的員工隊伍，機會在哪裡，我們有能力在哪裡，並相應地重新調整人員配置水平。

And as -- I'm sure you're aware, when you do any sort of rebalancing in Europe, the cost of doing that is a bit higher than it is across the rest of the globe. So what your kind of seeing there is the output from us looking at search business in Europe and going through with the workforce rebalancing?

我相信你知道，當你在歐洲進行任何形式的再平衡時，這樣做的成本比全球其他地區要高一些。那麼，您對我們在歐洲搜尋業務和勞動力再平衡方面的成果有何看法？

Got it. Great. And then -- when you think about this environment, and I don't know if this is for Gary or Bob, but just when you think about the environment and thinking about it lasting for a while longer, outside of normal seasonality, do you feel like we're basing? Or do you think things could get a little bit worse and trying to get a sense for if you think that the margins that you're projecting for this -- the current quarter that we're in are kind of like towards the bottom end of the range, or if there's more downside that could occur based on what -- how you think the environment will end up shaping up?

知道了。偉大的。然後——當你想到這個環境時，我不知道這是否適合加里或鮑勃，但當你想到這個環境並想到它在正常季節性之外持續一段時間時，你會嗎？感覺我們正在基地？或者，您是否認為情況可能會變得更糟，並嘗試了解一下，如果您認為您為此預測的利潤率 - 我們目前所在的季度有點像接近年底範圍，或者是否會出現更多的負面影響— —您認為環境最終會如何形成？

Well, that's -- look, Mark, that's a very difficult question. I think China is a huge wildcard. That was 1/3 of the world's manufacturing. The war in Ukraine is another big wildcard. And the impact on energy in EMEA with respect to that war is hard to predict. In the Middle East, how they're cutting oil production is another one.

嗯，馬克，你看，這是一個非常困難的問題。我認為中國是一個巨大的通配符。那是世界製造業的 1/3。烏克蘭戰爭是另一個巨大的變數。這場戰爭對歐洲、中東和非洲地區能源的影響很難預測。在中東，他們削減石油產量的方式是另一回事。

I mean those are really big variables to try to guess. I -- my baseline is that we're in this now for some quarters that there's a huge reset happening, companies are going to have to optimize and reorganize and transform to adjust to this new reality. There is tremendous demographic shortages.

我的意思是，這些都是需要猜測的巨大變數。我的基準是，我們現在已經經歷了幾個季度，發生了巨大的重置，公司將不得不優化、重組和轉型，以適應這個新的現實。人口嚴重短缺。

I mean you go out long-term in the United States and what you'd find is that for every person that's over 65, there's only going to be one person working, whereas today, it's kind of 2:1. I mean that's definitely eye-opening.

我的意思是，如果你在美國長期工作，你會發現，對於每一個 65 歲以上的人來說，只有一個人在工作，而今天，這種比例是 2:1。我的意思是這絕對令人大開眼界。

And so it's really -- those are huge wildcards. And I would only say that if you look at the last few months, it certainly would appear the Executive Search and Pro Search are running about on a plateau basis. And consulting and digital have done very well, and we've got this huge opportunity around interim that's not going to go away.

所以這確實是——這些都是巨大的通配符。我只想說，如果你看看過去幾個月，你會發現高階主管搜尋和專業搜尋肯定處於平穩狀態。諮詢和數位化領域做得非常好，我們在過渡時期獲得了這個巨大的機會，而且這種機會不會消失。

Your next question comes from the line of Trevor Romeo.

你的下一個問題來自特雷弗·羅密歐。

Hopefully, you can hear me, I've been having some connection issues. So I apologize if I missed any of this already. But I just kind of wanted to ask about on the guidance, I was wondering if you could maybe kind of break down your expectations for each segment. I think your normal seasonality would kind of indicate an uptick sequentially in Q2. So just wondering if maybe any of the segments would be further off the normal seasonal patterns than others?

希望您能聽到我的聲音，我遇到了一些連接問題。因此，如果我已經錯過了其中的任何內容，我深表歉意。但我只是想詢問一下指導，我想知道你是否可以分解你對每個部分的期望。我認為正常的季節性會表明第二季度會出現連續上升。所以只是想知道是否有任何細分市場會比其他細分市場更加偏離正常的季節性模式？

Bob, I'll let you do that.

鮑勃，我會讓你這麼做的。

Sure. So I think, Trevor, as Gary indicated, we're seeing the perm placement Exec Search and Pro Search and sort of plateauing at this point. So as we think about the guidance, we're thinking about from a quarter sequential basis, kind of flattish for each of those businesses.

當然。所以我認為，特雷弗，正如加里指出的那樣，我們看到了執行搜尋和專業搜尋的永久放置，並且目前處於穩定狀態。因此，當我們考慮該指導意見時，我們會從季度連續的角度考慮，對於每項業務來說都比較平穩。

On the Consulting side, Q2 is normally an up quarter for us, and we're looking at that as being slightly up from Q1. Same thing with digital, slightly up from -- I think again, I'm talking sequentially up from the first quarter. And then on the interim side, that business as well as being slightly flat to maybe down a little bit as we think about what's going on with the IT vertical.

在諮詢方面，第二季度對我們來說通常是一個上升的季度，我們認為它比第一季略有上升。數字方面也是如此，略高於——我再次想，我說的是從第一季開始依序向上。然後，在中期方面，當我們考慮 IT 垂直領域的情況時，該業務略有持平，甚至可能略有下降。

But when you look at the midpoint of the guidance, it would suggest that we're kind of flat with, again, the perm placement portion, plateauing, Consulting being up a bit, digital up a bit and then interim down a little bit.

但是，當您查看指南的中點時，它會表明我們再次持平，燙髮安置部分處於穩定狀態，諮詢部分上升了一點，數字上升了一點，然後中間下降了一點。

Okay. Great. That was helpful. And then just on the Consulting segment, it was nice to see the solid performance in the quarter and some positive new business trends. I'm just kind of wondering if you could maybe talk about each of the business areas within Consulting kind of what's driving the performance there and the reception among clients.

好的。偉大的。這很有幫助。然後就顧問部門而言，很高興看到本季的穩健業績和一些積極的新業務趨勢。我只是想知道您是否可以談談諮詢中的每個業務領域，例如推動績效和客戶接待的因素。

I think we've got -- number one, I think it's the environment in terms of companies that are having to adapt to this reset that I've talked about, that's definitely a big part of it, whether it's governments, whether it's the infrastructure act in the -- here in the United States, that's clearly a megatrend that's driving the consulting engagements, we see -- we're seeing more and more integrated consulting engagements, not just assessment or succession, but actually across the entire solution side.

我認為我們已經——第一，我認為這是公司必須適應我談到的這種重置的環境，這絕對是其中的一個重要部分，無論是政府，還是企業在美國，這顯然是推動諮詢業務的大趨勢，我們看到，我們看到越來越多的綜合諮詢業務，不僅僅是評估或繼任，實際上是整個解決方案方面。

I think we have an enormous opportunity around rewards, compensation, benefits, both on consulting and digital. The data that we have is just so robust and the opportunity to monetize that data, we have comped out on 30 million people around the world, 30,000 companies, that's an opportunity for us for sure. And to continue both Consulting and digital to monetize this IP, the assessment data that we have. We've done 100 million assessments of people. That's another one as well.

我認為我們在諮詢和數位領域的獎勵、薪酬、福利方面擁有巨大的機會。我們擁有的數據是如此強大，並且有機會將這些數據貨幣化，我們已經對全球 3000 萬人、30,000 家公司進行了比較，這對我們來說肯定是一個機會。並繼續進行諮詢和數位化，以將我們擁有的評估數據這一知識產權貨幣化。我們已經對人們進行了​​ 1 億次評估。那也是另一件事。

Your next question comes from the line of Tobey Sommer from Truist Securities.

您的下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Tobey Sommer。

I wanted to dig into one of your responses. On IT and interim, is that weakness which predominantly is there for interim, is that declining sequentially at this point? Or did it fall earlier in the year, and we're still having sort of year-over-year declines on that basis?

我想深入研究一下你的回應之一。在 IT 和臨時方面，主要是臨時存在的弱點是否在這一點上連續下降？或者是今年早些時候下降了，但在此基礎上我們仍然出現了同比下降？

Yes, Tobey, it's Bob. I would say that -- well, there's a couple of things that the decline that you see on the interim side. One was we had a particularly large contract that had a defined life to it. And so that kind of cloud it a little bit because the project concluded and went away.

是的，托比，是鮑伯。我想說的是——嗯，你會在中期看到一些下降的事情。一是我們有一份特別大的合同，有明確的期限。因此，由於該專案結束並消失，這種雲有點多。

I would say that the -- what we're seeing in terms of the sort of sequential activity on the IT side, the level of decline is absolutely decelerating at this point. And I would say, once we get past the Q1 to Q2 sequentially, we would expect based on everything we're seeing today, that's to kind of plateau as well.

我想說的是，從 IT 的連續活動來看，目前下降的程度絕對是在減速。我想說，一旦我們依次度過第一季到第二季度，根據我們今天所看到的一切，我們預計這也會達到平穩期。

Okay. I just had a couple more. Prior slowdowns have been followed by rapid growth. And I think we've described on this call; this is a little bit more of a normalization reset. But we haven't had sort of all the classic tales of a recession and a change in the labor market on the negative side.

好的。我剛剛又喝了幾杯。之前的放緩之後是快速成長。我想我們已經在這次電話會議中進行了描述；這更像是一種標準化重置。但我們還沒有經歷過經濟衰退和勞動市場負面變化的所有經典故事。

What kind of growth can we -- what could it look like on the other side, if we, as an economy here, sort of stick this soft landing and unemployment in the U.S. doesn't really rise significantly?

如果我們作為這裡的一個經濟體堅持這種軟著陸並且美國的失業率沒有真正大幅上升，那麼我們能實現什麼樣的增長——另一邊會是什麼樣子？

Well, it depends on what -- I would first go back to, well, okay, what's Korn Ferry's actual CAGR? What do we look like? And I think -- and Gregg can correct me on these numbers.

嗯，這取決於什麼——我首先要回到，好吧，光輝國際的實際複合年增長率是多少？我們看起來像什麼？我認為──格雷格可以糾正我這些數字。

But our 10 and 20-year CAGRs are probably 12%, 13%, 14% all in. That's both organic and inorganic. So I think you, number one, have to say, okay, what is this organization done historically? And is there any reason to believe in that going forward? And I think there's a whole host of reasons why this company is even better positioned today than say it was 10 years ago. So I think you have to look at that as kind of a baseline.

但我們的 10 年和 20 年複合年增長率可能分別是 12%、13%、14%。這既是有機的，也是無機的。所以我認為你，第一，必須說，好吧，這個組織歷史上做了什麼？有什麼理由相信這一點會繼續下去嗎？我認為，有很多原因可以解釋為什麼這家公司今天的地位比 10 年前更好。所以我認為你必須將其視為一種基準。

And then you kind of go from there. And you've got a new -- we have a new business going out a new market around people that want flexibility in their life. And companies that want to employ flexible labor. And that certainly, for us, that's a relatively new business. And in the span of 18, 20 months, we've created a $330 million, $350 million business. So I think that could be easily $1 billion. The consulting business is -- I mean, the market opportunity there is multibillion dollars.

然後你就從那裡開始。我們有一項新業務，圍繞著那些希望生活靈活的人們開拓新市場。以及想要雇用靈活勞動力的公司。當然，對我們來說，這是一項相對較新的業務。在 18、20 個月的時間裡，我們創造了價值 3.3 億美元、3.5 億美元的業務。所以我認為這很容易達到 10 億美元。諮詢業務——我的意思是，那裡的市場機會有數十億美元。

We've demonstrated that we can drive an integrated go-to-market strategy. We've got cross referrals at 25%, 30%. We've got a global marquee regional account strategy that's 40%. So everything absolutely points to that baseline and more, honestly.

我們已經證明我們可以推動一體化的市場進入策略。我們的交叉推薦率為 25%、30%。我們制定了 40% 的全球大區域客戶策略。因此，老實說，一切都絕對指向該基線以及更多。

I do think that the labor market is going to continue to experience shortages. And the late concept of labor hoarding that's for a reason. If markets are efficient. And the truth is the United States labor market really hasn't moved tremendously over the last several years. And I think you look out further, and it's -- you just don't see a huge number of people entering the labor force. I mean it's going to be fairly, fairly modest.

我確實認為勞動市場將繼續出現短缺。最近出現的勞動力囤積概念是有原因的。如果市場是有效的。事實上，美國勞動市場在過去幾年並沒有發生巨大變化。我認為你看得更遠，你只是沒有看到大量的人進入勞動市場。我的意思是，這將是相當相當溫和的。

The ability to monetize IP is in still -- it's incredibly important for us. And that business is around $90 million today, $85 million, $90 million. And we have to continue to look at that and find ways to embed our IP across all of our solutions. It's very scalable. It's incredibly profitable. And so that's how I would look at this organization. I think it's -- I really think it's at the beginning of what it can be.

將知識產權貨幣化的能力仍然存在——這對我們來說非常重要。如今，該業務約為 9,000 萬美元、8,500 萬美元、9,000 萬美元。我們必須繼續關注這一點，並找到將我們的智慧財產權嵌入到我們所有解決方案中的方法。它非常具有可擴展性。這是非常有利可圖的。這就是我對這個組織的看法。我認為這——我真的認為這才剛開始。

Okay. And this is something I struggled with. As you grow the interim business up to $1 billion, maybe use that as a target, what does the associated increase in your total addressable market look like? And I know we could look at F&A or IT and kind of those numbers are established and out there. But if you're going to continue to hold tight to the idea that you're going to have among the highest bill rates and a focus on that part of the market, those sizes of the TAM aren't as readily available, but you might be able to help us with that?

好的。這是我一直在努力解決的問題。當您將臨時業務成長到 10 億美元（也許可以以此為目標），您的總目標市場的相關成長如何？我知道我們可以查看 F&A 或 IT，這些數字已經確定並存在。但是，如果您繼續堅持這樣的想法，即您將擁有最高的帳單費率並專注於這部分市場，那麼這些規模的 TAM 並不那麼容易獲得，但您可以幫助我們嗎？

Well, that's for sure. I mean, it is definitely it's definitely more artwork for sure to try to triangulate to that. I think getting that exact percentage is very, very hard to do. But I do think we do need to stick to the upper end of that market. I think that's where we have the most revenue synergy and the ability for cross referrals and the ability to feed into our global marquee and regional accounts.

嗯，這是肯定的。我的意思是，這絕對是更多的藝術品，肯定會嘗試對此進行三角測量。我認為獲得確切的百分比是非常非常困難的。但我確實認為我們確實需要堅持該市場的高端。我認為這是我們擁有最大收入協同效應、交叉推薦能力以及納入我們全球大帳篷和區域帳戶的能力的地方。

We look at the total addressable market for Korn Ferry at $250 billion, $300 billion. And the 2 big pieces of that would be, number one, around training, learning, development. Today, for Korn Ferry, that's probably 10%, 11%, 12% of the firm. I think we're completely undersized in what that can be. We develop over 1 million professionals a year. I think that's a big opportunity.

我們預期光輝國際的潛在市場總額為 2,500 億美元、3,000 億美元。其中的兩大部分是，第一，圍繞著培訓、學習和發展。如今，對光輝國際來說，這可能是公司的 10%、11%、12%。我認為我們的規模完全不夠。我們每年培養超過 100 萬名專業人員。我認為這是一個很大的機會。

The other big part of that market would be what's generally referred to as staffing. I think we would need to stick at the very, very high end of that. So just rough numbers, I mean, if you think that the addressable market for Korn Ferry is $250 billion -- $300 billion. I mean you know the market better than I. But I think that $1 billion would still be a relatively small percentage of the high end of that market for sure.

該市場的另一個重要部分是通常所說的人員配置。我認為我們需要堅持非常非常高的目標。我的意思是，如果你認為光輝國際的潛在市場是 2500 億美元到 3000 億美元，那麼這只是一個粗略的數字。我的意思是你比我更了解這個市場。但我認為 10 億美元肯定在該市場的高端市場中所佔的比例相對較小。

But we -- but Toby, we have to stick at that high end. I do not see us going down. We just -- we don't get the -- we don't enjoy the revenue synergy and the revenue uplift. So our view now is to stick with technology, finance and accounting, operations, supply chain and HR. And when you look at that interim business today, it's predominantly in the United States.

但我們——但是托比，我們必須堅持高端。我不認為我們會下降。我們只是——我們沒有得到——我們沒有享受到收入協同效應和收入提升。所以我們現在的觀點是堅持技術、財務和會計、營運、供應鏈和人力資源。當你看看今天的臨時業務時，你會發現它主要在美國。

And so you would also have to say Korn Ferry would need to be looking at other places in the world where there's clearly opportunity. But we're very mindful of that question and the implication and where we should really be playing there. It's a good insight, good question, and it's certainly one that we consider pretty seriously for sure.

因此，你也不得不說光輝國際需要考慮世界上其他明顯有機會的地方。但我們非常注意這個問題及其含義以及我們真正應該在那裡玩的地方。這是一個很好的見解，一個很好的問題，而且我們肯定會非常認真地考慮這個問題。

If I sneak one last one in. I'd like you to expand on your comment about an in-sourcing trend impacting RPO. How do you think that will evolve? And is there evidence of recruiting, in-sourcing sort of a reaction to the high, the great resignation, and is it impacting? Or do you think it may any other aspects of your business in the market?

如果我偷偷地講最後一個。我希望您能詳細闡述一下對影響 RPO 的內包趨勢的評論。您認為這將如何發展？是否有證據顯示招募、內包是對高層辭職的反應，是否有影響？或者您認為這可能是您業務在市場上的其他方面嗎？

No, I think it's -- we're seeing it really within RPO. And -- when -- I really do think that in this great rush, this great resignation, where there was this mad dash for talent, recruiters were the hardest people to recruit into organizations and companies. You've seen the stories about them. I'm sure, particularly in the technology -- for technology companies.

不，我認為我們確實在 RPO 中看到了這一點。而且——當——我確實認為，在這種巨大的熱潮、這種巨大的辭職、對人才的瘋狂追逐中，招募人員是最難招募到組織和公司的人。你已經看過關於他們的故事了。我確信，特別是在科技領域──對科技公司來說。

And I think that organizations really staffed up for growth and scale. And I think there is -- clearly, companies have pulled back and rather than downsizing for example, in the HR area, as an example, not to pick on that, but rather than down sourcing. They're taking that reduced -- that reduced capacity that reduced demand and filling it internally. And that's clearly what's happening. And there's been no other change in RPO landscape.

我認為組織確實為成長和規模配備了人員。我認為，很明顯，公司已經撤回，而不是縮小規模，例如在人力資源領域，不是為了挑剔這一點，而是為了減少採購。他們正在採取減少的能力，減少需求並在內部填補它。這顯然就是正在發生的事情。 RPO 格局沒有其他變化。

And so I -- as I said earlier, the last couple of years, we've done $600 million of new business, as Bob pointed out. It's very, very lumpy quarter-to-quarter. Would I expect $600 million this year? No. I wouldn't expect $600 million. But would I expect $525 million? Yes, I'd expect $525 million.

所以我——正如我之前所說，過去幾年，我們已經完成了 6 億美元的新業務，正如鮑勃所指出的那樣。每個季度的情況都非常非常不穩定。我預計今年會獲得 6 億美元嗎？不，我沒想到會達到 6 億美元。但我期望 5.25 億美元嗎？是的，我預計 5.25 億美元。

And Mr. Burnison, it appears there are no further questions.

伯尼森先生，看來沒有其他問題了。

Okay, Greg, everybody, thanks for taking the time. And we look forward to speaking to you over the next few days. And thanks again. Bye-bye.

好的，格雷格，大家，謝謝您抽出時間。我們期待在接下來的幾天內與您交談。再次感謝。再見。

Ladies and gentlemen, this conference call will be available for replay for 1-week starting today at 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time running through the day September 14, 2023, ending at midnight.

女士們、先生們，從今天下午 3:00 開始，本次電話會議將提供為期 1 週的重播。東部時間貫穿 2023 年 9 月 14 日，直到午夜結束。

You may access the AT&T executive playback service by dialing (866) 207-1041 and entering the access code 3900121. International participants may dial (402) 970-0847. Additionally, the replay will be available for playback at the company's website, www.kornferry.com in the Investor Relations section.

您可以撥打 (866) 207-1041 並輸入接入碼 3900121 來存取 AT&T 行政播放服務。國際參與者可以撥打 (402) 970-0847。此外，重播將在公司網站 www.kornferry.com 的投資者關係部分播放。

That does conclude your conference for today. Thank you for your participation and for using AT&T Teleconference. You may now disconnect.

今天的會議到此結束。感謝您的參與和使用 AT&T 電話會議。您現在可以斷開連線。