伊塔烏聯合銀行 (ITUB) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

[Interpreted] Good morning, everyone. And thank you for joining this video conference to talk about our earnings for the first quarter of 2024. We're broadcasting directly from our office in Avenida Faria Lima in Sao Paulo. As usual, today's event will be divided into two parts.

【翻譯】大家早安。感謝您參加本次視訊會議，討論我們 2024 年第一季的收入。和往常一樣，今天的活動將分為兩個部分。

First, Milton will take you through our performance and earnings for the first quarter of 2024 and then we will have a Q&A session during which investors and analysts can ask us questions and get into the details with us.

首先，米爾頓將向您介紹我們 2024 年第一季的業績和收益，然後我們將舉行問答環節，投資者和分析師可以向我們提問並與我們詳細了解。

Before we get started, I'd like to give you a few pointers to help you make the most of today's meeting. For those of you who accessed this via our website, there are 3 audio options on screen. The entire content in Portuguese, the entire content in English or just the original audio. For the first 2 options, you have simultaneous translation. To choose your preferred option, just click on the flag on the top of your screen. Questions can be submitted via WhatsApp. Just click on the button on the screen on the website or simply send a message to +55-11-93-959-1877. The presentation we'll be making today is available for download on the website screen and as usual, on our Investor Relations website.

在我們開始之前，我想向您提供一些建議，以幫助您充分利用今天的會議。對於透過我們網站訪問此內容的人，螢幕上有 3 個音訊選項。全部內容為葡萄牙語、全部內容為英語或僅原始音訊。對於前 2 個選項，您可以使用同聲翻譯。要選擇您的首選選項，只需點擊螢幕頂部的標誌即可。可以透過 WhatsApp 提交問題。只需點擊網站畫面上的按鈕或發送訊息至 +55-11-93-959-1877。我們今天要做的簡報可以在網站螢幕上以及像往常一樣在我們的投資者關係網站上下載。

I'll hand over the floor to Milton, who will begin the earnings presentation, and then I'll be back to moderate the Q&A session. Milton, the floor is yours.

我將把發言權交給米爾頓，他將開始收益演示，然後我將回來主持問答環節。米爾頓，地板是你的。

[Interpreted] Good morning or good afternoon to those who are in a different time zone. Thank you for joining us, and welcome to our Earnings Call for the First Quarter of 2024. I'll begin with a high-level presentation, outlining the bank's earnings and providing more detail for certain items. At the end, I'll also be making a special invitation for our Itaú Day which is just around the corner. So let's get straight into the figures.

[翻譯] 不同時區的人們早安或下午好。感謝您加入我們，歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第一季收益電話會議。最後，我還將為即將到來的義大利日發出特別邀請。那麼讓我們直接進入數字。

Our earnings for the first quarter of 2024 totaled BRL 9.8 billion, representing growth of 3.9% compared to the previous quarter. Our consolidated recurring return on equity was 21.9%, meaning 70 basis points of growth quarter-over-quarter. It reached 22.7% in Brazil, growing 50 basis points quarter-over-quarter. This ROE takes into account 13% of common equity Tier 1, which exceeds our capital appetite.

2024 年第一季我們的營收總計 98 億雷亞爾，較上一季成長 3.9%。我們的綜合經常性股本報酬率為 21.9%，代表環比成長 70 個基點。巴西達 22.7%，季增 50 個基點。該 ROE 考慮了 13% 的一級普通股，這超出了我們的資本胃口。

This means that we would be posting even higher profitability if we calculated it with our capital target. The cost of credit dropped nominally in the third consecutive quarter, reaching BRL 8.8 billion, a 3.9% decrease quarter-over-quarter. Our delinquency indicators remained stable with consolidated NPL over 90 days, dropping 10 basis points quarter-over-quarter and the 90-day NPL for individuals falling 20 basis points in the same period. I'll bring you more detail about the cost of credit a bit later.

這意味著，如果我們按照資本目標進行計算，我們將獲得更高的獲利能力。信貸成本名目連續第三季下降，達到 88 億雷亞爾，季減 3.9%。我們的拖欠指標維持穩定，90 天以上綜合不良貸款較上季下降 10 個基點，同期個人 90 天不良貸款下降 20 個基點。稍後我將向您提供有關信貸成本的更多詳細資訊。

OpEx fell by 6.2% in the quarter to BRL 14.4 billion in the first quarter of 2024, meaning another record quarter for the consolidated efficiency ratio which reached 38.3%, a decrease of 200 basis points in the quarter for the consolidated figures and 36.8% in Brazil, a decrease of 130 basis points during the same period. This is a very sound set of results with a good overall portfolio quality, strong profitability and above all high predictability. The individual loans portfolio grew by 2.6% year-on-year, that decreased by 0.6% in the first quarter due to the normal seasonality of the credit card portfolio.

2024 年第一季度，營運支出下降 6.2%，至 144 億雷亞爾，這意味著綜合效率再創新高，達到 38.3%，本季綜合數據下降 200 個基點，季度營運支出下降 36.8%。下降130個基點。這是一組非常穩健的結果，具有良好的整體投資組合品質、強勁的獲利能力以及最重要的是高可預測性。個人貸款組合較去年同期成長2.6%，第一季因信用卡組合季節性下降0.6%。

We posted significant growth of personal loans portfolio and 11.3% for the year, while the payroll loan was flat, growing 0.1% in the quarter. In vehicle loans, we grew 1.7% during the quarter. and 5.4% during the year. We also saw flat growth in the mortgage portfolio in the quarter and 3.1% growth in the year. I'll go into more detail about the individuals loan portfolio later in the presentation. We saw a 1.9% growth in the SMEs portfolio in the quarter and 10.2% growth year-over-year. The large corporate's portfolio grew by 9.3% during the year, posting sound growth of 3.6% in the quarter. This was a strong and very active quarter for the capital markets.

我們的個人貸款組合顯著成長，全年成長 11.3%，而薪資貸款持平，本季成長 0.1%。在車輛貸款方面，本季我們成長了 1.7%。年內成長 5.4%。我們還發現，本季抵押貸款投資組合成長平穩，全年成長 3.1%。我將在稍後的演示中詳細介紹個人貸款組合。我們看到本季中小企業投資組合成長 1.9%，年增 10.2%。這家大公司的投資組合年內成長了 9.3%，本季實現了 3.6% 的穩健成長。對於資本市場來說，這是一個強勁且非常活躍的季度。

As we have a significant market share, we've ranked very high in the capital market rankings. Our credit portfolio, excluding FX variations, grew by 5.6% year-over-year. And taking into account FX variations, the portfolio grew by 2.8% in the same period. I'll share further details in the next slide. I'd now like to draw your attention to the growth of the loans to individuals. I'm sure this is a topic of general interest that we'll talk about in depth in our Q&A.

由於我們擁有很大的市場份額，我們在資本市場排名中排名非常靠前。我們的信貸投資組合（不包括外匯變化）年增 5.6%。考慮到匯率變化，該投資組合在同一時期增長了 2.8%。我將在下一張幻燈片中分享更多詳細資訊。我想提請大家關注個人貸款成長情況。我確信這是一個普遍感興趣的話題，我們將在問答中深入討論。

If we look at the December 2022 to March 2024 series, our portfolio grew by roughly 4%. Adjusting the loan book to reflect the derisking of the portfolio, which we've carried out proactively, the portfolio has grown by 7%. This derisking strategy involved reducing credit to some segments that did not prove resilient. This 7% growth is slightly below the market growth for the period. It's worth noting that the credit card portfolio accounts for a significant share of our total portfolio.

如果我們看一下 2022 年 12 月至 2024 年 3 月的系列，我們的投資組合成長了約 4%。我們主動調整了貸款帳簿以反映投資組合的去風險化，結果投資組合成長了 7%。這種去風險策略包括減少對某些缺乏彈性的部門的信貸。 7% 的成長率略低於同期市場成長率。值得注意的是，信用卡投資組合占我們總投資組合的很大一部分。

Thus, any appetite adjustment efforts have a major impact due to the credit card portfolio share in terms of the overall portfolio mix. We'd like to provide some additional clarification about this derisking strategy, which we proactively implemented for clients who are less resilient to credit cycles. We believe that at this point, we have roughly reached the valley of the curve for this portfolio's downsizing. Since December 2022, we've reduced this portfolio by 83%, so there is little left to do to achieve a full reduction, which is expected to happen by the end of the third quarter of 2024. This derisking strategy may have an additional negative impact of only 0.5% on our portfolio.

因此，由於信用卡投資組合在整體投資組合中所佔的份額，任何偏好調整努力都會產生重大影響。我們想就這項去風險策略提供一些額外的說明，該策略是我們為對信貸週期彈性較差的客戶主動實施的。我們認為，此時，我們已大致到達該投資組合縮減規模的曲線谷底。自2022 年12 月以來，我們已將該投資組合削減了83%，因此幾乎沒有什麼可做來實現全面削減，預計將在2024 年第三季末實現。的負面影響對我們投資組合的影響僅為 0.5%。

And this is already taking into consideration in the 2024 loan portfolio guidance that we've disclosed. Looking back, we see that the derisking actions helped us reduce our delinquency ratio measured based on the 90 days NPL by 103 basis points. Given the prudential adjustments that were made to the bank's balance sheet to enable us to face this credit cycle, we were able to avoid delinquencies accounting for between 170 and 200 basis points of NPL 90 depending on the period analyzed. We were also able to make savings of BRL 3 billion per year in provisions for loan losses.

我們已揭露的 2024 年貸款組合指南中已考慮到這一點。回顧過去，我們發現去風險行動幫助我們將根據 90 天不良貸款衡量的拖欠率降低了 103 個基點。鑑於對銀行資產負債表進行了審慎調整，使我們能夠應對這一信貸週期，我們能夠避免不良貸款 90 的 170 至 200 個基點之間的拖欠，具體取決於分析的時期。我們也能夠每年節省 30 億雷亞爾的貸款損失準備金。

I'd also like to point out that while growing the portfolio indiscriminately generates earnings via NII and operating revenue in the short term, in the long run, these earnings could be entirely canceled out through the cost of credit. We track our NIM and profitability very closely. These are 2 very important metrics in terms of our management and that have proven effective during the current period. This derisking strategy has had a positive impact on 300 basis points on the profitability of the individuals business measured based on the risk-adjusted return on capital.

我還想指出，雖然短期內不加區別地擴大投資組合會透過NII和營業收入產生收益，但從長遠來看，這些收益可能會透過信貸成本完全抵消。我們非常密切地追蹤淨利差和獲利能力。對於我們的管理而言，這是兩個非常重要的指標，並且在當前時期已被證明是有效的。這種去風險策略對基於風險調整資本回報率衡量的個人業務獲利能力產生了 300 個基點的正面影響。

These results for profitability and earnings clearly indicate that our decision to reduce our exposure to clients who are less resilient to the credit cycle was the right one. Now looking to the future growth of the credit portfolio, there remains very little left to do to complete this derisking process. And as such, we will start to experience a positive inertial effect from the growth of portfolios made up of clients who are more resilient to the credit cycle, which have never stopped growing.

這些獲利能力和收益結果清楚地表明，我們減少對信貸週期彈性較差的客戶的風險敞口的決定是正確的。現在展望信貸投資組合的未來成長，要完成這個去風險過程幾乎沒有什麼可做的。因此，我們將開始體驗到由對信貸週期更具彈性的客戶組成的投資組合成長所帶來的正面慣性效應，而這些客戶的成長從未停止。

This includes all individuals in all segments, all channels and for all products. So we're going to start to see growth within the range indicated in the 2024 guidance. Now as regards to the client NIM, we have great news. First, I'd like to explain the adjustment made to exclude the results of our operation in Argentina from our earnings for the first quarter of 2023. Given that the operation in Argentina was sold and was excluded from the balance sheet for the last 5 months of 2023, the first quarter still included the operation's figures.

這包括所有細分市場、所有通路和所有產品的所有個人。因此，我們將開始看到 2024 年指導中指出的範圍內的增長。現在，關於客戶 NIM，我們有個好消息。首先，我想解釋一下為將阿根廷業務結果排除在 2023 年第一季收益之外而進行的調整。第一季仍包含營運數據。

If we compare margin for the first quarter of 2024 with the margin for the first quarter of 2023 excluding the results for Argentina, you will see that we posted steep growth of 9.4%, equivalent to an additional margin of BRL 2.2 billion. This is very positive news in terms of the clients' NIM momentum with top line growth and the lower cost of credit, indicating good credit quality, and disciplined capital allocation. The drop in core clients' NII was 1.7% quarter-over-quarter. If you take a look at the bank's historic series, you'll notice that this trend often occurs in the first quarter.

如果我們將2024 年第一季的利潤率與2023 年第一季的利潤率（不包括阿根廷的結果）進行比較，您會發現我們的利潤率急劇增長9.4%，相當於額外利潤22 億雷亞爾。就客戶的淨利差動能而言，這是非常積極的消息，包括收入成長和信貸成本降低，顯示良好的信貸品質和嚴格的資本配置。核心客戶NII季減1.7%。如果您查看該銀行的歷史序列，您會發現這種趨勢經常發生在第一季。

On the other hand, we saw a minor effect of the change in product mix where the average volume is positive. And we also saw wider spreads and higher margins on liabilities. In terms of negative effects, we would note that around half of the drop can be explained by the lower number of calendar days in the quarter and the other half by the results from Latin America and from structured wholesale operations.

另一方面，我們看到產品組合變化的影響較小，平均銷售量為正。我們也看到負債利差擴大和利潤率提高。就負面影響而言，我們注意到，大約一半的下降可以用本季日曆天數的減少來解釋，另一半可以用拉丁美洲和結構化批發業務的結果來解釋。

Aside from these effects, we're managing to deliver high-quality clients' NII, especially if we look at our performance relative to comparable quarters. NIM remained virtually flat with a slight decrease due to the effects I mentioned earlier. And when we analyze the risk-adjusted NIM, which is the most important metric, it was flat compared to the previous quarter, reaching 5.8% on a consolidated basis and saw a slight drop of 10 basis points in the operations in Brazil, which is where the structured wholesale operations effect I've mentioned is accounted for.

除了這些影響之外，我們還設法為客戶提供高品質的 NII，特別是如果我們看看我們相對於可比季度的業績。由於我之前提到的影響，淨利差幾乎保持平穩，略有下降。當我們分析最重要的風險調整後淨利差時，它與上一季持平，合併後達到 5.8%，巴西業務小幅下降 10 個基點，其中考慮了我提到的結構化批發業務效應。

Thus, our clients' NIM is extremely promising and we still believe we'll be able to maintain a good development pace for the coming quarters. Our numbers for market NII in the quarter are sound without any major highlights. We've been able to take into exit positions when this makes sense quarter-on-quarter. And we always make such moves based on predictability, risk management and proper positioning.

因此，我們客戶的淨利差非常有希望，我們仍然相信我們將能夠在未來幾季保持良好的發展速度。我們本季的市場 NII 數據良好，沒有任何重大亮點。當季度環比有意義時，我們已經能夠建立退出頭寸。我們總是基於可預測性、風險管理和正確定位來採取此類行動。

Our market NII has remained very consistent. As a result, we posted yet another sound quarter in Brazil, reaching BRL 1.1 billion. In Latin America, we also had a good quarter, posting an increase of BRL 100 million quarter-over-quarter and a flat cost of hedging capital ratio. Capital index hedging has had a diminishing impact on our earnings due to our management strategy and due to the decrease in the interest rate differential. Core market NII was BRL 1.3 billion, but the total market NII was slightly lower due to the allocation of the cost of capital index hedging, as shown in this chart.

我們的市場NII 保持非常穩定。因此，我們在巴西發布了又一個穩健的季度業績，達到 11 億雷亞爾。在拉丁美洲，我們的季度表現也不錯，季增了 1 億雷亞爾，對沖資本成本比率持平。由於我們的管理策略和利差的縮小，資本指數對沖對我們獲利的影響逐漸減弱。核心市場NII為13億雷亞爾，但由於資本指數避險成本的分配，總市場NII略低，如下圖所示。

We've presented the figures in this way for full transparency. In terms of commissions, fees and results from insurance operations, we posted growth in the credit card portfolio of 4.6% year-over-year. It's worth noting that the first quarter of the year tends to be weaker in both the issuance and acquiring businesses due to seasonality factors and the way we allocate these results for recording purposes. In current accounts, we noted a more stable result for the quarter with a 5.8% drop year-over-year. But this is not a significant proportion of the bottom line. We had a very strong quarter for advisory services and brokerage, which grew 7.1% quarter-over-quarter, and 70.6% year-over-year.

我們以這種方式呈現數據是為了完全透明。就佣金、費用和保險業務表現而言，我們的信用卡組合年增 4.6%。值得注意的是，由於季節性因素以及我們出於記錄目的分配這些結果的方式，今年第一季的發行和收購業務往往較弱。在經常帳方面，我們注意到本季的業績更加穩定，年減 5.8%。但這並不是利潤的重要組成部分。我們的諮詢服務和經紀業務季度表現非常強勁，環比成長 7.1%，較去年同期成長 70.6%。

The first quarter of 2023 was affected by the poor performance of the capital market as a whole due to the fraud event that occurred during that quarter, which ended up cooling down capital market activities in Brazil. In 2024, we managed to grow investment banking results and to maintain our leading position in a good number of the investment banking rankings. We are #1 for debt capital markets with a market share of 32%. In M&A, we are in second place with 39% market share, as this is a market concentrated on a few player

2023年第一季度，由於該季度發生的詐欺事件，導致資本市場整體表現不佳，導致巴西資本市場活動降溫。 2024年，我們投產業績實現成長，在多項投行排名中保持領先地位。我們在債務資本市場排名第一，市佔率 32%。在併購方面，我們以 39% 的市佔率位居第二，因為這是一個集中在少數參與者的市場

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

the capital markets with a market share of 13%. Another item worth drawing attention to is the results of insurance, pension plans and premium bond products in which we continue to post growth. Every year, we've managed to expand the results in this line. Structurally, we continue to grow 10%. So we practically more than doubled the results of our insurance operations over a relatively short period.

資本市場市佔率為13%。另一個值得關注的項目是我們持續維持成長的保險、退休金計畫和保費債券產品的表現。每年，我們都設法擴大這一領域的成果。從結構上看，我們繼續成長 10%。因此，在相對較短的時間內，我們的保險業務表現實際上增加了一倍以上。

Commission fees and insurance thus grew by 6.7% during the year compared to the results excluding Argentina. Disregarding Argentina adjustment in the first quarter of 2023, growth was 5.8% for the period. In terms of the cost of credit, we had a very stable quarter. As you may recall, in the first quarter of the year, it's common to see higher levels of delinquency as a reflection of the expenses at the end of the last year and the beginning of the next.

因此，與不包括阿根廷在內的業績相比，這一年的佣金和保險費增加了 6.7%。不考慮阿根廷 2023 年第一季的調整，該期間成長率為 5.8%。就信貸成本而言，我們度過了一個非常穩定的季度。您可能還記得，在今年第一季度，通常會看到拖欠率較高，這是去年年底和明年年初費用的反映。

Historically, we've seen some seasonality in the first quarter, where shorter delinquencies, in particular, are more common. If you analyze the numbers from a consolidated perspective on Itaú Unibanco as a whole, increase was only 10 basis points. I'd also remind you that this series saw some aberrations in the post-pandemic period, and thus, some normalization can be seen in subsequent quarters. Analyzing a longer period, it can be seen that we are at the lowest delinquency levels. Remember that there is also some negative inertia because the loan portfolio did not grow significantly due to all the adjustments we've made to the portfolio.

從歷史上看，我們在第一季看到了一些季節性因素，尤其是較短的拖欠情況更為常見。如果從 Itaú Unibanco 整體的綜合角度分析這些數字，您會發現增幅僅為 10 個基點。我還想提醒大家，這個系列在大流行後時期出現了一些異常，因此，在接下來的幾個季度中可以看到一些正常化。分析較長時期，可以看出我們的拖欠率處於最低水準。請記住，也存在一些負面慣性，因為由於我們對投資組合所做的所有調整，貸款組合併未顯著成長。

And yet, we have still delivered very healthy indicators. In Brazil, we saw an increase of 10 basis points. Over longer time frames, we've previously seen increases of between 30 and 40 basis points. So this slight increase in the first quarter of 2024, when the credit portfolio has already been normalizing for a reasonable period of time is good news. The same analysis holds true for SMEs. When we analyze our historical series of NPLs, it's possible to see that last year, the indicators were stable in line with what we've already been saying in 2022. And now we've seen a decrease for the second consecutive quarter in NPL 90 for individuals and NPL for SMEs of 2.6%, and not increasing during the period.

然而，我們仍然提供了非常健康的指標。在巴西，我們看到成長了 10 個基點。在較長的時間範圍內，我們之前看到 30 到 40 個基點的成長。因此，2024 年第一季的小幅成長是個好消息，當時信貸組合已經在一段合理的時間內正常化。同樣的分析也適用於中小企業。當我們分析不良貸款的歷史系列時，可以看到去年的指標與我們在 2022 年所說的一致。 ，期間沒有增加。

This shows, once again, our ability to manage these portfolios through adverse scenarios and how well we've been able to control the risk management process and delinquency levels. As a result, this is the third consecutive quarter posting a nominal decline in the cost of credit and in the cost of credit as a percentage of the overall credit portfolio, which reached 3%. The renegotiation of the portfolio has also pulled the portfolio down. It's worth remembering that the individual loans portfolio includes the renegotiated portfolio. And since our strategy has been to ensure disciplined risk management, the portfolio was renegotiated to the right level and not excessively. We can, therefore, see that this portfolio has also been dropping nominally year-over-year.

這再次表明我們有能力在不利的情況下管理這些投資組合，以及我們控制風險管理流程和拖欠水準的能力。因此，這是連續第三季信貸成本名目下降，信貸成本佔整體信貸組合的百分比下降至 3%。投資組合的重新談判也拉低了投資組合的水準。值得記住的是，個人貸款組合包括重新協商的組合。由於我們的策略是確保嚴格的風險管理，因此將投資組合重新談判到正確的水平，但不過分。因此，我們可以看到該投資組合名義上也逐年下降。

The ratio of the renegotiated portfolio to the total credit portfolio was 3.2%, following a nominal decrease. There were no surprises in terms of the coverage ratios with a small increase overall, but some variations by line of business reflecting everything we've been doing to protect our balance sheet with good credit quality. Going forward, we expect healthy indicators with good coverage by provisions at a healthy level of 90 days NPL.

重新談判的投資組合佔信貸組合總額的比例為 3.2%，名義上有所下降。覆蓋率整體小幅成長並不令人意外，但不同業務領域的一些變化反映了我們為以良好的信用品質保護資產負債表所做的一切。展望未來，我們預期健康指標良好，撥備覆蓋率良好，處於 90 天不良貸款的健康水準。

Noninterest expenses, excluding the effects of the deconsolidation of Argentina, increased by 6.4% year-over-year. There was a 6.2% drop compared to the last quarter of 2023 as noninterest expenses for the first quarter of 2024 totaled BRL 14.4 billion. It's worth noting the improvement in our efficiency ratio, which reached 36.8% in Brazil and 38.3% in the consolidated in this first quarter of the year. This meant that we had yet another record quarter in terms of our efficiency ratio, both for Brazil and on a consolidated basis.

排除阿根廷解體的影響，非利息支出較去年同期成長 6.4%。 2024 年第一季的非利息支出總計 144 億雷亞爾，較 2023 年第四季下降 6.2%。值得注意的是，我們的效率有所改善，今年第一季巴西達到 36.8%，綜合效率達 38.3%。這意味著我們在巴西和綜合效率方面再創歷史新高。

In the 2024 guidance, we reported that we expected to grow our core costs at less than inflation. The 12-month headline inflation rate was 3.9%, while our core costs grew by 2%, which is half of the inflation rate for the period. This result was delivered without stopping investing in the growth of our business and in our technology platform. Therefore, the growth in our total noninterest expenses is due to investments in our business. It's also important to demonstrate that we have maintained strict cost discipline.

在 2024 年指引中，我們預期核心成本的成長速度將低於通貨膨脹率。 12 個月整體通膨率為 3.9%，而我們的核心成本增加了 2%，是該時期通膨率的一半。這項成果是在我們沒有停止對業務成長和技術平台的投資的情況下實現的。因此，我們非利息支出總額的成長是由於對我們業務的投資。證明我們一直保持嚴格的成本紀律也很重要。

For banks, inflationary pressures go beyond just interest rates. We are parties to collective agreements that put a lot of pressure on costs, but we have made major investments in the business and in the future of the bank. And we don't abdicate our responsibility for actively managing our costs every day. We also have very positive news regarding capital. We announced the payment of extraordinary dividends and that reduced our capital base during the last quarter. Since then, we've generated both more earnings and more capital.

對銀行來說，通膨壓力不只是利率。我們是集體協議的締約方，這給成本帶來了很大的壓力，但我們對業務和銀行的未來進行了重大投資。我們不會放棄每天積極管理成本的責任。我們還有關於資本的非常正面的消息。我們宣布支付特別股息，這減少了我們上個季度的資本基礎。從那時起，我們創造了更多的收入和更多的資本。

This quarter, we reported capital consumption by risk-weighted assets and due to regulatory changes that increased the risk weighting on some operations. Therefore, we had some nonrecurring impacts that caused the CET1 ratio to reach 13%. It's worth noting that our dividend policy establishes a CET1 level close to 12%. So will how this excess capital affect the dividend policy in the coming periods? We're still grappling with some uncertainties, whether related to regulatory changes or future implementations of regulatory updates, including the new operational risk regulation and credit weighting that have been impacting the RWA, the impacts of the IFRS 9 and how it will affect tax credits and consequently capital.

本季度，我們報告了風險加權資產的資本消耗，並且由於監管變化增加了某些業務的風險權重。因此，我們遇到了一些偶發性影響，導致 CET1 比率達到 13%。值得注意的是，我們的股利政策將 CET1 水準設定為接近 12%。那麼，這種過剩資本將如何影響未來時期的股利政策呢？我們仍在努力應對一些不確定性，無論是與監管變化還是與監管更新的未來實施有關，包括影響 RWA 的新操作風險監管和信貸權重、IFRS 9 的影響以及它將如何影響稅收抵免以及隨之而來的資本。

For this reason, we're always careful to maintain a capital buffer to anticipate future events in order to ensure proper capital management and avoid any issues. Any excess capital beyond that will be distributed. And the closer we get to the end of the year, the greater our visibility on this. Our goal is not to retain capital beyond what is required to run the bank and grow our operations.

因此，我們始終謹慎地維持資本緩衝以預測未來事件，以確保適當的資本管理並避免任何問題。超出此範圍的任何多餘資本都將被分配。越接近年底，我們對此的關注度就越高。我們的目標不是保留超出營運銀行和發展業務所需的資本。

Considering a horizon of 12 to 24 months, which gives us considerable security regarding our current and future capital generation in the coming quarters. We do not release the guidance on a quarterly basis, and this is already known to the market. The idea of bringing the guidance framework is to share with you our view of the year of 2024 and the bank. The first relevant piece of information is that the 2024 guidance estimates the growth of the credit portfolio between 6.5% and 9.5%. The year-over-year growth of the credit portfolio was 2.8%, but adjusting for FX, it impacts the Latin American credit portfolio. Growth is 5.6%, which is still below the 2024 guidance.

考慮到 12 至 24 個月的期限，這為我們當前和未來幾季的資本產生提供了相當大的安全性。我們不會按季度發布指引，這一點市場已經知道。提出指導框架的想法是與大家分享我們對2024年和銀行的看法。第一個相關資訊是，2024 年指導方針估計信貸投資組合的成長在 6.5% 至 9.5% 之間。信貸投資組合的年成長率為 2.8%，但根據匯率進行調整後，它會影響拉丁美洲的信貸投資組合。成長率為 5.6%，仍低於 2024 年指引值。

As we are currently in the valley of the derisking portfolio adjustment curve, we remain very comfortable with the 2024 credit portfolio growth guidance that was released at the beginning of the year. We believe that we'll recover to a position in the range of the loan portfolio growth throughout the year and are reaffirming our 2024 loan portfolio growth guidance. Our clients' NII grew by 7.4% year-on-year. But when we exclude Argentina from 2023 results, we grew by 9.4% in the period. This growth of 9.4% is above the guidance range. However, this is not an indication of where we'll be at the end of the year. We are simply sharing with you as evidence that we have been able to grow close to the ceiling set out in our 2024 guidance.

由於我們目前正處於去創投組合調整曲線的谷底，因此我們對年初發布的 2024 年信貸投資組合成長指引仍然非常滿意。我們相信，我們將恢復到全年貸款組合成長範圍內的位置，並重申我們的 2024 年貸款組合成長指引。我們客戶的NII年增7.4%。但如果我們將阿根廷排除在 2023 年業績之外，我們同期的成長率為 9.4%。 9.4%的成長高於指導範圍。然而，這並不能顯示我們到年底的情況。我們只是與您分享，作為我們已經能夠接近 2024 年指導中設定的上限的證據。

As such, we remain comfortable with our clients' NII guidance. The market NII is a simplification because we take the result of the first quarter and multiply it by 4 since this is only a nominal guidance. We know that the unpredictability level of the margin is high, but we also know that we must work hard throughout the year and deliver results within the established guidance. The cost of credit follows the same rationale with the first quarter of 2024 amount being multiplied by 4. The guidance supports this credit cost momentum.

因此，我們對客戶的 NII 指導仍然感到滿意。市場 NII 是一種簡化，因為我們將第一季的結果乘以 4，因為這只是名義上的指導。我們知道利潤率的不可預測性很高，但我們也知道我們必須全年努力工作，並在既定指導範圍內交付成果。信貸成本遵循相同的原理，將 2024 年第一季的金額乘以 4。

Commission and fees, excluding Argentina, grew by 6.7% during the year, which is also within the guidance. We disclosed the guidance figures both including and excluding Argentina from 2023 results to better understand the performance in the period. Noninterest expenses increased by 4.3% during the year, while inflation was 3.9% for the period. If we exclude the figures for Argentina, growth is 6.4% for the year, also within the range of the guidance. The tax rate is also within the guidance range. We believe that the predictability is as important as good guidance for the market to calculate earnings expectations. So it's important to share how we are managing the bank.

佣金和費用（不包括阿根廷）年內增加了 6.7%，也在指導範圍內。我們揭露了 2023 年業績中包括和不包括阿根廷的指導數據，以便更好地了解該時期的表現。年內非利息支出增加 4.3%，而同期通膨率為 3.9%。如果排除阿根廷的數據，全年成長率為 6.4%，也在指導範圍內。稅率也在指引範圍內。我們認為，可預測性與市場計算獲利預期的良好指引同樣重要。因此，分享我們如何管理銀行非常重要。

Let me say once again that we are reaffirming our 2024 guidance, and we are very comfortable with the numbers we're achieving. Going forward, we believe we'll deliver the expected earnings and that the guidance range accommodates potential changes. We're very confident that the growth of the credit portfolio will be within the guidance range by the end of the year. This is the general message. We will not track the guidance during every quarterly presentation, but we think it's important to share our views at this time.

我再次強調，我們正在重申 2024 年的指導方針，並且我們對所實現的數字感到非常滿意。展望未來，我們相信我們將實現預期收益，並且指導範圍可以適應潛在的變化。我們非常有信心，到年底信貸組合的成長將在指導範圍內。這是一般資訊。我們不會在每個季度的演示中追蹤指導，但我們認為此時分享我們的觀點很重要。

Finally, I'd like to take the opportunity to extend an invitation. This has been a very high-level executive presentation only with some updates on our credit portfolio, NII, capital costs and guidance details. But on June 19, from 9 to 11:30 a.m. Sao Paulo Time, we will host Itaú Day. The event will have the same format as previous years with the participation of the Executive Committee, Pedro and Roberto at the beginning and also myself, although I promise not to take up much of your time and to give the executive committee the opportunity to explain our strategy and what's behind the headline numbers.

最後，我想藉此機會發出邀請。這是一場非常高層的高階主管演講，僅介紹了我們的信貸投資組合、國家資訊基礎設施、資本成本和指導細節的一些最新情況。但在 6 月 19 日，聖保羅時間上午 9 點至 11:30，我們將舉辦義大利日。這次活動的形式與往年相同，一開始就有執行委員會、佩德羅和羅伯託以及我自己的參與，不過我保證不會佔用你們太多的時間，並給執行委員會一個機會來解釋我們的情況。

Of course, the numbers are important. But behind them, there is a lot going

當然，數字很重要。但在他們的背後，還有很多事情在發生

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

because appropriate,

因為合適，

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

we will organize with great care and dedication. And it will also be the time for you to understand how we've conducted our business and the vision we have for the future.

我們將精心組織並全力以赴。這也是您了解我們如何開展業務以及我們對未來的願景的時候。

This concludes my presentation. I'd like to I'll now join Renato to start our traditional Q&A session.

我的演講到此結束。我現在想和雷納託一起開始我們的傳統問答環節。

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Milton. Thank you for the presentation. So let's start the second part of our meeting, which is a Q&A

[翻譯]非常感謝你，米爾頓。謝謝您的介紹。讓我們開始會議的第二部分，即問答環節

(technical difficulty) so this is a bilingual session. So we're going to answer your question

（技術難度）所以這是雙語會議。所以我們要回答你的問題

(technical difficulty) if you need any either English or Portuguese or you can submit as well your questions via WhatsApp. The number is 11-93-959-1877.

（技術難度）如果您需要英語或葡萄牙語，或者您也可以透過 WhatsApp 提交您的問題。電話號碼是 11-93-959-1877。

Milton, we have a list of questions to address for both of you. But before, I would like to give

米爾頓，我們有一系列問題需要為你們解答。但在此之前，我想給

(technical difficulty) message for everyone here.

（技術難度）在這裡給大家留言。

[Interpreted] Thank you very much, Renato. (inaudible) Well, guys, once again, thank you for your participation.

[翻譯]非常感謝你，雷納托。 （聽不清楚）好吧，夥伴們，再次感謝你們的參與。

I'd like to break the protocol of our call and -- that the bank is going through so we wanted to also seize the moment to bring our solidarity

我想打破我們通話的協議——銀行正在經歷這樣的事情，所以我們也想抓住時機來表達我們的團結

(technical difficulty) of the state of [Real]

[真實]的狀態（技術難度）

(technical difficulty) a difficult moment and crisis, a [tragedy] (technical difficulty) to the press, a lot of initiatives that we've done to help the population of Rio Grande do Sul, but the (technical difficulty) but it's in a trench warfare that it is, the city, the capitals, the cities and the [population]

（技術困難）一個困難的時刻和危機，對媒體來說是一個[悲劇]（技術困難），我們為幫助南里奧格蘭德州的人民採取了很多舉措，但（技術困難）卻在這是一場塹壕戰，城市、首都、城市和[人口]

(technical difficulty) the moment of solidarity, and we have to work (technical difficulty) citizens as a company, and Itaú, well, we want to do the best that we can. We subdivided with our actions with the collaborators.

（技術困難）團結的時刻，我們必須作為一家公司與（技術困難）公民一起工作，而伊塔奧，好吧，我們想盡力而為。我們透過與合作者的行動進行細分。

We have 170 branches in the agency. 52 are closed and impacted, 16

我們在該機構擁有 170 個分支機構。 52 家已關閉並受到影響，16 家

(technical difficulty) [are not closed]. And of our collaborators and associated companies

（技術難度）【未關閉】。以及我們的合作者和聯營公司

(technical difficulty) is in good conditions, family members are impacted. So this is the moment of the strength of the

（技術難度）狀況良好，家人受到影響。所以這就是力量的時刻

(technical difficulty) because in the end, we have to be together in a moment of difficulties and also joy so that our employees can also

（技術難度）因為最後我們要在一起，有困難的時候，也有喜悅的時刻，這樣我們的員工也能

(technical difficulty) to the community and our clients. So we have a series of actions that we are

（技術難度）給社區和我們的客戶。所以我們有一系列的行動

(technical difficulty) we've been very proactive in the offering of insurance for our clients.

（技術難度）我們一直非常積極主動地為客戶提供保險。

We know that there is a policy that protects them. We've proactively called our

我們知道有一項政策可以保護他們。我們已主動致電

(technical difficulty) we've -- we are

（技術難度）我們－我們是

(technical difficulty) at the granularity, at the individuals to see what are the processes that we need to help them in this great moment of pain. We did initially a donation to [Union Brazil], an NGO. But the big

（技術難度）在粒度上，在個人上，看看我們需要採取哪些流程來幫助他們度過這個偉大的痛苦時刻。我們最初向非政府組織[巴西聯盟]捐款。但大

(technical difficulty) it's not only resources but mainly

（技術難度）不光是資源，主要是

(technical difficulty) the war plan at this very difficult moment.

（技術難度）在這個非常困難的時刻的戰爭計劃。

So yesterday at the invitation of Azul, John, the CEO of Azul, talked to me -- in the morning, we closed at that moment, our partnership, so we can capture our friends, colleagues, citizens of

因此，昨天，應 Azul 的邀請，Azul 的執行長約翰與我交談——早上，我們在那一刻結束了我們的合作夥伴關係，這樣我們就可以捕獲我們的朋友、同事和公民。

(technical difficulty) submitting planes to the region where we can land, taking

（技術難度）將飛機提交到我們可以降落的區域，採取

(technical difficulty) to the first responders as well to help them. We have an internal resource allocation in the bank, so

（技術難度）給第一響應者以及幫助他們。我們在銀行有內部資源分配，所以

(technical difficulty) and donate, there is the pairing of donations. This is a problem that hopefully will be ending soon, even though it's long term, there is a rebuilding work, but I have to start by expressing my deep [sadness]

（技術難度）還有捐贈，有配對捐贈。這是一個希望很快就能結束的問題，儘管這是長期的，有重建工作，但我必須先表達我深深的[悲傷]

(technical difficulty) the best, the most solidarity to the population of

（技術難度）最好的，對人民最團結的

(technical difficulty) that we can

（技術難度）我們可以

(technical difficulty) Itaú Unibanco, we're going to take two steps ahead to do whatever we can. Renato?

（技術難度）Itañ Unibanco，我們將提前兩步盡我們所能。雷納托？

[Interpreted] (technical difficulty) message very important. So, let

【解讀】（技術難度）訊息非常重要。所以讓

(technical difficulty) first of all, I think that we have a tool work of risk management that is very much developed all throughout many years. This is a core system in our culture, risk management is very strong capital allocation

（技術難度）首先，我認為我們有一個風險管理的工具工作，多年來已經得到了很大的發展。這是我們文化中的一個核心系統，風險管理是非常強的資本配置

(technical difficulty) institution. So when we do projections of the guidance and projects, we can with a predictability degree that is very accurate to project our numbers. And we can see that we are developing now throughout the years, both in finance and also risk. And this tool box allows us to do great decisions with the prospective vision and not the short-term vision. Of course, we have teams that are high quality. We cannot delegate this to the models because the models were built by high-quality teams, people that are dedicated to understand the journey of the client. And we've recently been planting in a very structured way with the retail the management of the portfolio. We have to prioritize and make decisions, and you have to make choices. So as important as it is growing, you have to choose your battles from the capital allocation standpoint with a long-term view. We saw that there is an overoffering of credit over the years. We cut it in inventories that are presented, but there is a series of December from '22 to March of '24.

（技術難度）機構。因此，當我們對指導和專案進行預測時，我們可以非常準確地預測我們的數字。我們可以看到這些年來我們在金融和風險方面都在發展。這個工具箱使我們能夠以前瞻性的眼光而不是短期的眼光做出偉大的決策。當然，我們有高素質的團隊。我們不能將其委託給模型，因為模型是由高素質團隊建立的，這些團隊致力於了解客戶的旅程。我們最近以一種非常結構化的方式進行零售投資組合的管理。我們必須確定優先順序並做出決定，而你也必須做出選擇。因此，儘管它正在增長，但你必須從資本配置的角度以長遠的眼光來選擇你的戰鬥。我們看到多年來信貸供應過多。我們在所提供的庫存中削減了它，但從 22 年 12 月到 24 年 3 月有一系列。

If you see that series, we didn't grow BRL 17 billion in the portfolio. Maybe this is a good number, so you can keep in mind. Why? Because these are clients with the compromise of their income, very high. Their indebtedness, they're now resilient on the long term, but we have to remember the numbers. So we have periods of high volatility. So I cannot look at a short cycle and make decisions looking at the next 3 to 6 months. We're aiming for the results of the next quarter. If the VPL of the client is negative and not in the credit overview, we look at the overview client, not the credit overview. So in an institution such as ours that we want to bring and build a strong franchise of great engagement of the client, having a management of the client and looking at that client on a longer cycle is fundamental, so we can take -- make the decisions.

如果您看到該系列，我們的投資組合併沒有增加 170 億雷亞爾。也許這是一個很好的數字，所以你可以記住。為什麼？因為這些客戶的收入非常高。他們的債務，從長遠來看，他們現在具有彈性，但我們必須記住這些數字。因此，我們經歷了高度波動的時期。所以我不能著眼於一個短週期並專注於未來 3 到 6 個月做出決定。我們的目標是下個季度的結果。如果客戶的 VPL 為負且不在信用概覽中，我們會查看概覽客戶，而不是信用概覽。因此，在像我們這樣的機構中，我們希望引入並建立強大的客戶參與度的特許經營權，對客戶進行管理並以更長的周期關注該客戶是至關重要的，因此我們可以採取——使決定。

So we realize a certain increase of delinquency with everything that we lived after the pandemic increase or the inflation increase of the interest rates, and we knew at the time to make the adjustments that are necessary for the portfolio. I believe that looking from now, looking to the numbers that I've just commented, we made decisions that are very accurate. Why? Because of management through equity and growing portfolio and bringing revenue is not difficult. On the short term, the revenue will come. I mean for growing the portfolio, you just have to open the credit filters, you're going to grow the portfolio.

因此，我們意識到，在大流行增加或利率通膨增加之後，我們生活的一切拖欠率都有所增加，我們當時就知道要對投資組合進行必要的調整。我相信，從現在來看，看看我剛才評論的數字，我們所做的決定是非常準確的。為什麼？因為透過股權管理和不斷增長的投資組合帶來收入並不困難。短期來看，收入是會來的。我的意思是，為了擴大投資組合，你只需要打開信用過濾器，你就會擴大投資組合。

But thereafter the problem is that you're going to spend many years paying for that bill. And that's not how we want to manage the bank. We want a branch not just looking at the (technical difficulty) naturally, there is an issue of value proposition. where we've done adjustments that are very relevant. It wasn't a credit card portfolio. There was an overoffering of the portfolio of the product on the market. The client had 1.4 credit cards per CPF number. Now we see 4 credit cards per CPF. We have an over product without annual fees

但此後的問題是你將花費很多年的時間來支付這筆帳單。這不是我們想要管理銀行的方式。我們想要一個分支自然不只是看（技術難度），還有一個價值主張的問題。我們做了非常相關的調整。這不是信用卡投資組合。市面上該產品組合供過於求。該客戶的每個 CPF 號碼有 1.4 張信用卡。現在我們看到每張 CPF 有 4 張信用卡。我們有超多產品，無年費

(technical difficulty) a product that you can hire digitally and no client when they hire a credit card, they ask the interest rate of the installments and the payments. They just think that this is a payment method

（技術難度）您可以透過數位方式租用的產品，並且沒有客戶在租用信用卡時詢問分期付款和付款的利率。他們只是認為這是一種付款方式

(technical difficulty) client NII given some of that derisking of the portfolio. But when you think about growth from here and some of the competitive dynamics, are happening, right? I mean, you have some people competing on the lower income segment, but are they talking about going more with higher income clients. So I mean, how comfortable are you in your ability to maybe accelerate loan growth from here to be able to deliver on the guidance for the full year? Just -- and just digging in a little bit on the loan growth in particular, right? I mean credit cards, we did see a pickup in personal loans, just to understand a little bit the dynamics there, if you go through the loan growth by the individual client segment, like where you see the opportunities and where there still may be some competitive pressures.

（技術難度）客戶 NII 考慮到投資組合的一些去風險化。但當你想到這裡的成長和一些競爭動態時，正在發生，對嗎？我的意思是，有些人在低收入市場競爭，但他們是否在談論更多地與高收入客戶合作。所以我的意思是，您對從現在開始加速貸款成長以實現全年指導的能力感到滿意嗎？只是——特別是稍微研究一下貸款成長，對吧？我的意思是信用卡，我們確實看到個人貸款有所回升，只是為了了解一下那裡的動態，如果你按個人客戶群查看貸款增長情況，比如你在哪裡看到了機會，在哪裡仍然可能有一些機會。

I'll start saying that we see a lot of opportunities looking forward. So we are very positive about the size of the opportunity that we have in terms of growing the portfolio. Of course, we had to deal with this derisking process for the past, I would say, 2 years. And we are very happy we've been through that, delivering a very good level of profitability. But we are, yes, working in all segments, and we see opportunities throughout all the publics that we have inside the bank from Itaú BBA to the individuals.

我首先要說的是，我們看到了許多未來的機會。因此，我們對擴大投資組合的機會規模非常樂觀。當然，我們在過去（我想說，兩年）裡都必須處理這種去風險流程。我們很高興我們經歷了這一切，並實現了非常高的獲利水準。但是，是的，我們正在各個領域開展工作，並且我們在銀行內部從 Itañ BBA 到個人的所有公眾中都看到了機會。

On the wholesale side, we've been able to deliver 2-digit growth. But you have to remember and take in mind, in consideration that the debt capital market is very strong, especially in this first quarter. So you have to add, at the end of the day, we are serving our clients not only with the balance sheet, but also with the debt capital market with -- for the client is a financing solutions and very important. And we opened room to support the clients that don't have access to the debt capital market. When we look to the SMEs, we've been able to post a very decent growth many years in a row.

在批發方面，我們已經實現了兩位數的成長。但您必須記住並牢記，考慮到債務資本市場非常強勁，尤其是在第一季。所以你必須補充一點，歸根究底，我們不僅為客戶提供資產負債表，還為客戶提供債務資本市場——對客戶來說，這是一個非常重要的融資解決方案。我們也為無法進入債務資本市場的客戶提供支援。當我們關注中小企業時，我們已經連續多年實現了非常可觀的成長。

So if you go back, we've been growing for many years now, and we've been growing 2 digits this year as well, and we still see opportunity to keep growing this portfolio. Where we made the most relevant adjustment was on the individual side. I just mentioned a few reasons why. But we see that we are at the end of the tunnel. So we won't see that pressure coming from this derisking from the next 2 quarters. We just have just a little bit more negative pressure, but on the other hand, we've been growing 2 digits in the target clients that we define.

因此，如果你回顧過去，我們已經成長了很多年，今年我們也實現了兩位數的成長，而且我們仍然看到了繼續成長這個投資組合的機會。我們做出最相關的調整是在個人方面。我剛才提到了幾個原因。但我們看到我們已經到了隧道的盡頭。因此，未來兩個季度我們不會看到這種去風險帶來的壓力。我們只是面臨更多的負面壓力，但另一方面，我們定義的目標客戶一直以兩位數的速度成長。

So mid-income, high income, we are growing 2 digits in all those segments. And we believe that with this platform, this app, fully integrated with a full bank experience, we will be able to grow not only in the mid- and high-income clients, but also in the low-income clients. You have to define very clear what type of public you can access with what type of product in which channel. And what is your expectation in expected loss you can have with these clients.

因此，中等收入、高收入，我們在所有這些細分市場中都實現了兩位數的成長。我們相信，透過這個平台、這個與完整銀行體驗完全整合的應用程序，我們不僅能夠在中高收入客戶中實現成長，而且還能在低收入客戶中實現成長。您必須非常清楚地定義您可以在哪個管道中使用哪種類型的產品存取哪種類型的公眾。您對這些客戶的預期損失是多少？

So you can define the lifetime value, the VPN of this relation, but taking into consideration, of course, the risk models that we run inside the bank. So we do believe we have more than a winning class outside the bank, more than one personality outside the bank and we do have in low income, a lot of opportunity, having the correct value proposition. And this is our main goal for this year to find out the value proposition with the app completely integrated, and we will be able to grow the relationship with low-income, mid- and high-income clients without -- with this strategy.

因此，您可以定義此關係的生命週期價值和 VPN，但當然要考慮到我們在銀行內部運行的風險模型。因此，我們確實相信，我們在銀行之外擁有不只一個成功階層，在銀行之外擁有不只一個個性，而且我們確實擁有低收入、大量機會和正確的價值主張。這是我們今年的主要目標，即找出完全整合的應用程式的價值主張，並且我們將能夠發展與低收入、中等和高收入客戶的關係，而無需通過此策略。

And also, we have, of course, all the retail operation running very well, growing the business. The client base of all those segments is growing almost 2 digit a year, so just to give you an idea that we've been able to grow Personnalité in [Uniclass,] not only growing the size and of the number of clients, but also growing the share of wallet of those clients. So we still have a lot of room to increase the relationship with clients that are already very good clients of the bank. So we don't see any limitation, of course, in terms of growing. We do see, of course, that we have to keep in mind the scenario and how we will manage the scenario depending on the variables that we see looking forward.

當然，我們所有的零售業務都運作良好，業務不斷成長。所有這些細分市場的客戶群每年增長近 2 位數，所以只是為了讓您了解我們已經能夠在 [Uniclass] 中發展 Personalité，不僅增加了客戶規模和數量，而且這些客戶的錢包份額也不斷增加。所以我們還有很大的空間來增進與銀行已經非常好的客戶的關係。當然，我們在成長方面沒有看到任何限制。當然，我們確實看到，我們必須牢記這種情況，以及我們將如何根據我們未來看到的變數來管理這種情況。

So we have to look to the unemployment rate. We have to look to the GDP. We have to look to the geographic, to the demographic of our clients. We have to understand the level of leverage the clients have. So despite of all these tools that we use for risk management, we are very confident that we can grow the portfolio. You will see us growing in the coming quarters, and we are very confident with the guidance that we made.

所以我們必須關注失業率。我們必須關注GDP。我們必須關注客戶的地理位置和人口結構。我們必須了解客戶的槓桿水平。因此，儘管我們使用了所有這些風險管理工具，但我們仍然非常有信心擴大投資組合。您將看到我們在未來幾季不斷成長，我們對我們所做的指導非常有信心。

So there is no need to change. If you look at Brazil, only Brazil, we are growing 6.6% year-on-year. Then you have LatAm, which is having a major impact, a negative 12%. And why is that? Because the portfolio without this FX variation, the valuation we would be having a 2.6% portfolio year-on-year. This is what we see nowadays, 2.6%, 2.8%, depending on the way you cut it. So at the end of the day, my most relevant information here, yes, we'll be able to deliver the guidance. And you have to look to us with 2 other optics.

所以沒有必要改變。如果你看看巴西，只有巴西，我們的年成長率為 6.6%。然後是拉丁美洲，它產生了重大影響，下降了 12%。為什麼是這樣？由於投資組合沒有這種匯率變化，我們的投資組合估值將年增 2.6%。這就是我們現在看到的，2.6%、2.8%，取決於你削減的方式。因此，歸根結底，我最相關的資訊在這裡，是的，我們將能夠提供指導。你必須用另外兩個視角來看我們。

One of that is that if you take out Argentina of our numbers, we are growing at 9.4% top line. So the financial margins with clients is growing 9.4%, which is very, very relevant. But then you look to our cost of credit is diminishing on a nominal basis. So our financial margin met is very positive. So we are growing the portfolio, growing the financial margin with clients and reducing the cost of credit on a nominal basis. So -- and also, we've been able to deliver a very good efficiency ratio. So this is the way we've been managing the balance sheet and we believe that we can keep delivering the level of profitability that we've been delivering looking to a longer period. So we are very confident and very positive about the opportunities, of course, always having a huge discipline in capital allocation, huge discipline in risk assessment. So this is -- it's our mantra and we'll keep that very strongly.

其中之一是，如果除去阿根廷的數據，我們的收入成長率為 9.4%。因此，客戶的財務利潤成長了 9.4%，這是非常非常相關的。但你會發現我們的信貸成本名義上正在下降。因此，我們的財務利潤率非常高。因此，我們正在擴大投資組合，增加與客戶的財務利潤，並降低名目信貸成本。因此，我們已經能夠提供非常好的效率比。因此，這就是我們管理資產負債表的方式，我們相信我們可以在更長時期內繼續實現我們一直在提供的獲利水準。因此，我們對這些機會非常有信心和非常積極，當然，在資本配置方面始終保持嚴格的紀律，在風險評估方面始終保持嚴格的紀律。所以這就是——這是我們的座右銘，我們將堅定地遵守這一點。

The next question is from New York coming from Jorge Kuri from Morgan Stanley. Thank you for joining us.

下一個問題來自紐約，來自摩根士丹利的 Jorge Kuri。感謝您加入我們。

Congrats on the numbers. I wanted to maybe shift to expenses where you've done a really good job, certainly well ahead of what your incumbent peers have done. As you think about the banking system moving more and more to the digital front and some of your better digital competitors now moving into bigger products like payroll loans, for example, how can you compete effectively with players that have cost-income ratios, efficiency ratios of 20%, 25% and are using that to translate into much lower prices for consumers?

恭喜你的數字。我想或許可以轉向你們做得非常好的支出，當然遠遠領先你們現任的同行。例如，當您想到銀行系統越來越多地轉向數位化前沿，而您的一些更好的數位競爭對手現在正在進入工資貸款等更大的產品時，您如何與具有成本收入比、效率比的參與者進行有效競爭20%、25%，並利用它為消費者帶來更低的價格？

And I'm asking this in the context of your guidance for expenses. Growing expenses with inflation is just not going to get you there because revenues are going to grow a little bit above inflation. They're not going to grow 5x inflation. Your NII, for example, is growing 2x inflation. And so the efficiency seems to be lagging where I think financial institutions are going to have to be in order to compete with the pure digital players. So when can you do that? When can you start to provide us guidance of expenses are going to be down 5% next year, down 10% next year, and within the next x number of years, we should be at sub-30% efficiency ratio? Or maybe I'm wrong and you disagree and you don't think that you need to run the bank at 20-plus percent, 20%, 30% efficiency ratio to be competitive. So just wanted to get your overall take on this.

我是在你們的費用指南的背景下問這個問題的。隨著通貨膨脹而增加的支出不會讓你達到這個目標，因為收入的成長將略高於通貨膨脹。他們不會讓通貨膨脹率增加五倍。例如，您的 NII 正在以 2 倍的通貨膨脹率增長。因此，效率似乎落後於我認為金融機構為了與純數位參與者競爭而必須達到的水平。那什麼時候可以這樣做呢？您什麼時候可以開始向我們提供明年費用將下降 5%、明年下降 10% 的指導，並在未來 x 年內，我們的效率比率應低於 30%？或者也許我錯了，你不同意，你認為你不需要以 20% 以上、20%、30% 的效率來經營銀行才能具有競爭力。所以只是想了解一下您對此的整體看法。

We start talking about that, and I'll give you a few messages. Thank you. Good for -- to see you, Jorge, again, and thank you for the compliment. Let me start saying that, of course, efficiency for us, it's key. And that's why we've been delivering quarter-on-quarter reduction in our efficiency ratio. We've been delivering this quarter, the best ratio that we had so far, and we keep very positive about all the actions we are taking inside the bank. Our business model is a little different. We are not a full digital bank.

我們開始談論這個，我會給你一些資訊。謝謝。很高興再次見到你，喬治，謝謝你的讚美。首先我要說的是，效率對我們來說當然是關鍵。這就是為什麼我們的效率比逐季度下降。本季我們的比率是迄今為止最好的，我們對銀行內部採取的所有行動保持非常積極的態度。我們的商業模式有點不同。我們不是一家完整的數位銀行。

And we have to understand that is in this index, we are looking at the whole bank, okay? So this is a full banking index. We come from wholesale, global markets, LatAm, you have Brazil, you have everything. So you have the 2 index right there, the consolidated index and also you have the Brazilian ratio. My message to you is, first of all, we've been investing a lot in the digital transformation. That was the first best decision we had to make to be able to deliver a digital experience to our clients with a completely different user experience, completely different efficiency ratio.

我們必須明白，在這個指數中，我們正在關注整個銀行，好嗎？這是一個完整的銀行業指數。我們來自批發市場、全球市場、拉丁美洲、巴西，你擁有一切。所以你有 2 個指數，綜合指數，還有巴西比率。我要向您傳達的訊息是，首先，我們在數位轉型方面投入了大量資金。這是我們必須做出的第一個最佳決定，以便能夠為我們的客戶提供完全不同的使用者體驗和完全不同的效率比的數位體驗。

At this point, we believe that the app, the way we're going to be integrating that will be a huge achievement in terms of providing a much cheaper cost to our clients, to be able to deliver a much better price at the end of the day and to be more competitive and have a more operational scale coming from technology. So this is something that we're going to be very, very, very focused. The second thing you have to look to our model, digital model, but the same way, you don't have the same level of costs, but you don't have when you look to the digital banks, the same level of revenues. When we look at the capability that we have to have a full bank relationship with those clients and creating engagement not only for the day-by-day product, which is always the case, but also to more sophisticated product, you really need this remote approach to access our clients to offer to be consulted to your clients.

在這一點上，我們相信該應用程序，我們將要整合的方式將是一項巨大的成就，為我們的客戶提供更便宜的成本，並能夠在年底提供更好的價格。並擁有更大的營運規模。所以這是我們將非常非常非常關注的事情。第二件事你必須關注我們的模型，數字模型，但同樣，你沒有相同水平的成本，但當你關注數字銀行時，你也沒有相同水平的收入。當我們考慮必須與這些客戶建立完整的銀行關係並不僅為日常產品（情況總是如此）而且為更複雜的產品創造參與度時，您確實需要這種遠端接觸我們的客戶並為您的客戶提供諮商的方法。

We're not, I would say, happy because we believe that we still have a lot of work to do in that front. So I'm not saying that we got there, and we are happy that we don't have anything else to do. Yes, we have to keep pushing that. And we have to find a way to serve our clients the way he want but with a much lower efficiency ratio. Of course, we do have asymmetries in this discussion. So we talk a lot about asymmetries.

我想說，我們並不高興，因為我們相信在這方面我們還有很多工作要做。所以我並不是說我們已經到了那裡，我們很高興沒有其他事情可做。是的，我們必須繼續推動這一點。我們必須找到一種方法，以客戶想要的方式為我們的客戶提供服務，但效率要低得多。當然，我們在這個討論中確實存在不對稱之處。所以我們談了很多關於不對稱的問題。

We have regulatory asymmetries that are always being discussed, but we have some tax asymmetries as well. So if you look to us, we are paying [BRL 45 million] tax on the income corporate tax and social contribution, the payment institutions are paying [BRL 34 million]. So there is some tax asymmetries, and I'm pretty sure that this in the mid- to long term needs to be solved. It doesn't make any sense. All the time, you lose a client here, you lose at the end of the de-collection for the government as well. because you reduce the tax income. So there is a lot of asymmetries that will be solved in time being. But at this moment, we have to be focused in our agenda to deliver a much better experience to our clients to be much more efficient and of course, if you look to the numbers we're delivering, there is restructuring costs, the impact there.

我們一直在討論監管不對稱問題，但我們也存在一些稅收不對稱問題。因此，如果您看看我們，我們正在繳納[4500萬雷亞爾]的企業所得稅和社會繳款稅，支付機構正在支付[3400萬雷亞爾]。因此存在一些稅收不對稱的問題，我確信從中長期來看這個問題需要解決。這沒有任何意義。一直以來，你都會在這裡失去一個客戶，在政府取消徵收結束時你也會失去。因為你減少了稅收。所以有很多不對稱的問題會暫時解決。但目前，我們必須專注於我們的議程，為我們的客戶提供更好的體驗，提高效率，當然，如果你看看我們提供的數字，就會發現重組成本，以及那裡的影響。

So you have -- that's why we separate what is the core cost is being much less. So if we had inflation of 4% in this period, we are running at 2% in the core cost, but we still are investing in the enablers to have a much more digital bank. So on the other hand, we have to finance this investment period. So at a certain time, we're going to be much more efficient. We're going to be much more scaled in terms of technology, much more product-driven in terms of offering the best digital experience to our clients. And this will help us to be much more efficient in the way we have a value proposition for our clients.

因此，這就是為什麼我們將核心成本分開的原因是要少得多。因此，如果我們在此期間的通貨膨脹率為 4%，那麼我們的核心成本就為 2%，但我們仍在投資於推動因素，以擁有更數位化的銀行。因此，另一方面，我們必須為這個投資期提供資金。所以在某個時候，我們的效率會更高。我們將在技術方面更加規模化，在為客戶提供最佳數位體驗方面更加以產品為導向。這將有助於我們更有效率地為客戶提供價值主張。

So this is the way we look. We are in this space. We have a lot of work to do, but the job will be done.

這就是我們的樣子。我們就在這個空間裡。我們還有很多工作要做，但工作一定會完成。

So, [Broedel], I don't know if you want to add something or not.

所以，[Broedel]，我不知道你是否想添加一些內容。

No I think it's got -- I think it's quite clear. I quite agree with the direction that you mentioned, but I wouldn't focus so much as you said, on 5% reduction in cost because as Milton mentioned, maybe 5% reduction in cost nominally means that I will not achieve a lower efficiency ratio because the easiest way to reduce costs is to reduce investments. And we are clearly not on the business. So we are fully committed to reducing the efficiency level, but not necessarily to have nominal cost reductions when -- because we consider investments in this on this whole matter. So we fully agree in the direction. But I think that distinction between core costs and investment that Milton mentioned, for us is quite crucial.

不，我認為這是非常清楚的。我非常同意你提到的方向，但我不會像你說的那樣關注成本降低 5%，因為正如 Milton 提到的，也許名義上成本降低 5% 意味著我不會實現較低的效率比因為降低成本最簡單的方法就是減少投資。我們顯然不是在做生意。因此，我們完全致力於降低效率水平，但不一定要降低名目成本，因為我們在整個問題上考慮了這方面的投資。所以我們完全同意這個方向。但我認為米爾頓提到的核心成本和投資之間的差異對我們來說非常重要。

So this is the way to go, Jorge. It's good to hear from you, but we're going to pursue this agenda very strongly.

所以這就是要走的路，豪爾赫。很高興收到您的來信，但我們將非常堅決地推進這項議程。

Thanks, Milton, Broedel. Thanks, Jorge. Good to see you again.

謝謝米爾頓、布羅德爾。謝謝，豪爾赫。很高興再次見到你。

[Interpreted] Now going back to Portuguese. The next question is from Gustavo Schroden, BBI.

[解釋] 現在回到葡萄牙語。下一個問題來自 BBI 的 Gustavo Schroden。

[Interpreted] Good morning, everyone. Renato, Milton, Broedel. Congratulations on the results. I would like to speak dividends. Did you anticipate some -- well, you anticipate some questions, some words, Milton, but can you give us some color? First, the items that you were analyzing the waiting regulatory IFRS 9, you commented as well over the last calls about the tax reform. We've had the indication recently, in my reading, maybe it's more easy going from the standpoint of adjustments given the time.

【翻譯】大家早安。雷納托、米爾頓、布羅德爾。祝賀結果。我想談談股息。你是否預料到了一些——嗯，你預料到了一些問題、一些話，米爾頓，但你能給我們一些說明嗎？首先，您正在分析等待監管的 IFRS 9 的項目，您也在上次有關稅務改革的電話中發表了評論。我們最近有跡象表明，在我的閱讀中，也許從調整的角度考慮，考慮到時間會更容易。

But maybe am I reading it would give more space for us to think in these extraordinary dividends that you've commented, but I wanted you to comment first. What are the items, regulatory items that you have in mind? Operational risk, IFRS 9, I think that an issue of the tax reform but maybe can you qualify and can you give us some expectations on what would be the impact of these items that you have approximately? So you -- well, doing the math, what would be the dividend -- extraordinary dividend in potential? Could you give us a number for the second semester?

但也許我讀到它會給我們更多的空間來思考你所評論的這些非凡的紅利，但我希望你先發表評論。您想到的監管項目有哪些？操作風險，IFRS 9，我認為這是稅收改革的一個問題，但也許你有資格，你能給我們一些關於你所擁有的這些項目的影響的預期嗎？那麼你——好吧，算一下，股息是多少——潛在的非凡股息？您能給我們第二學期的電話號碼嗎？

[Interpreted] Thank you. It's a pleasure to see you, Gustavo. Thank you for the words. But let me give you an overview -- in-depth overview on this issue. Well, from the end to the beginning, our expectation is that we should get to the end of the year with everything that we have in projections with the capacity of paying the extraordinary dividends.

[已翻譯] 謝謝。很高興見到你，古斯塔沃。謝謝你的話。但讓我給你們一個概述——關於這個問題的深入概述。好吧，從年底到年初，我們的期望是，到今年年底，我們的預測應該有能力支付非凡的股息。

That's our best expectation to announce an extraordinary dividend, and we've been discussing this on the second semester, at the moment of doing it, and the dimension. But for that, we need a few premises. Now we are facing some relevant uncertainties. Well estimated, but these are uncertainties nonetheless. I think that on the positive side, the capital generation capacity is very solid, very strongly with the profitability level that we have. We've been generating a capital that is organically generated, provisioning the dividends in a very robust way.

這是我們宣布非凡股息的最佳期望，我們在第二學期、在這樣做的時候就一直在討論這個問題以及維度。但為此，我們需要一些前提。現在我們面臨一些相關的不確定因素。估計不錯，但這些仍然是不確定的。我認為從正面的一面來看，資本生成能力非常穩固，我們的獲利水準非常強勁。我們一直在產生有機產生的資本，以非常強勁的方式提供股息。

This quarter wasn't different. And it's been this way through the quarters. Now when we look up ahead in this quarter, Now we've had the first event of the risk [bond rater] for the credit for the structured operations of the wholesale, they had a big increase. In fact, the 34 basis that we said, 19 basis points approximately came from the bond rater impact. The rest is just risk-weighted assets the increase we've managed not only to finance the organic growth of the bank, but also pacing these adjustments and these bond raters. Second aspect is that looking up ahead, what do we see in terms of uncertainties? We had an expectation of the reform -- the tax reform of the income. What is the tax reform point?

本季也不例外。整個季度都是這樣。現在，當我們展望本季時，現在我們已經發生了批發結構性業務信貸風險[債券評級員]的第一個事件，它們出現了大幅增長。事實上，我們所說的34個基點，大約19個基點來自於債券評級機構的影響。其餘的只是風險加權資產，我們設法增加的資產不僅為銀行的有機成長提供資金，而且還適應這些調整和債券評級機構的節奏。第二個面向是，展望未來，我們看到哪些不確定因素？我們對改革抱持期待──所得稅改革。個稅改革的重點是什麼？

You have a discussion, you had a discussion if you have interest over own capital and how that compensates on the corporate tax adequate, if you have a lower adequate at the corporate level, you have to do -- very well this process you have to do an update, reevaluation of your tax credit. So we had an expectation that depending on the magnitude of the reevaluation, maybe it would cost us 60 basis for the bank. This is the number that we had with our projections.

你們進行了討論，你們進行了討論，如果你們對自有資本有興趣，以及如何補償公司稅充足，如果你們在公司層面的稅收較低，你們必須這樣做 - 很好，這個過程您必須更新並重新評估您的稅收抵免。因此我們預計，根據重新評估的幅度，銀行可能會損失 60 個基點。這是我們預測的數字。

The fact is that the reform of the income, it's probably the tax reporting is not going to happen next year. This is the base scenario because we're focused on government, Congress. In doing the norms and finding the IVA reform and all the impact in the segments that in and of itself is a very complex reform to do.

事實上，收入改革，即納稅申報可能不會在明年發生。這是基本情景，因為我們關注的是政府和國會。在製定規範並尋找 IVA 改革及其對各細分市場的所有影響的過程中，這本身就是一項非常複雜的改革。

We don't foresee this discussion for this year. Now for the next year, what are the impacts that we see -- we did -- we see a discussion of the fundamental review of the trade book. This is Basileia III. This is coming from the market as a whole, correct, I think that it's in the right direction. I think that it's ever more clear that the most risk for the results in the institution is in the banking book. And we've seen this happening in several banks and in the United States as well. This is a regulation that is necessary. We are very comfortable with what we've seen thus far. We've done risk management and adequate management, very adequate of these books. So I don't foresee big impacts. We have a discussion of [solo] basis which is to work on the capital at the individual level and not consolidated and then you define economic groups in conglomerate, higher potential. Therefore, this is a debate that is ongoing.

我們預計今年不會進行此類討論。現在，對於明年，我們看到的影響是什麼——我們確實看到了——我們看到了對貿易手冊基本審查的討論。這是巴西利亞三世。這是來自整個市場的，正確的，我認為這是正確的方向。我認為，越來越明顯的是，機構績效的最大風險來自銀行帳戶。我們已經在幾家銀行和美國看到了這種情況的發生。這是一項必要的規定。我們對迄今為止所看到的情況感到非常滿意。我們已經做了風險管理和充分的管理，這些書非常充足。所以我預計不會產生大的影響。我們對[單獨]基礎進行了討論，即在個人層面上進行資本工作，而不是進行整合，然後您將經濟集團定義為具有更高潛力的集團。因此，這是一場持續的爭論。

And we need to define what is the type of impact. There is an impact of Basileia risk, operational risk, So looking up ahead, our estimate is 100 basis points for Itaú Unibanco and it's 4 years. Phase-in starts next year. So 25 basis per year, 4 years, so we are very comfortable that with our projections we can observe absorb these 25 basis at the beginning of next year without any difficulties.

我們需要定義影響的類型。有Basileia風險、操作風險的影響，所以展望未來，我們估計Itaú Unibanco的利率為100個基點，為期4年。明年開始分階段實施。因此，每年 25 個基點，4 年，所以我們非常滿意，根據我們的預測，我們可以觀察到在明年初吸收這 25 個基點，沒有任何困難。

There is a discussion of IFRS 9 or the norm, the law that was created. And I think that you know this is something that you should measure the impacts in the several institutions because the -- as you necessarily have to deduct all of your loss of credit in the -- in this FY and then, [first off], you have 3 years to do the deductibility, the risk of a process such as this is that some institution is going to lock in a liability of tax.

討論了 IFRS 9 或準則，即所製定的法律。我認為你知道這是你應該衡量對幾個機構的影響的事情，因為你必須扣除你在本財年的所有信用損失，然後，[首先]，您有3 年的時間進行扣除，此類流程的風險是某些機構將鎖定納稅義務。

And then you have the [other world] effect. First, you lose the bond rater of the PDD and then it becomes the TPF, the tax of the -- loss of tax reform and then you reduce the base of the capital. There is a transition that is being broadly discussed in central bank government, but we do not know exactly what is going to be the outcome of this debate. So I think that we have to, by policy, be very cautious facing the uncertainties because events take place. There are several regulatory changes. So these are the main ones, the main changes that I see, but our capacity to generate capital has been very strong, which means that we continue to be comfortable and we are capable of financing these impacts and finishing the year with a CET1, with the level of -- and so we can make a decision for the extraordinary dividend that is being paid.

然後你就有了[另一個世界]的效果。首先，你失去了PDD的債券評級機構，然後它變成了TPF，稅改的損失，然後你減少了資本基礎。央行政府正在廣泛討論過渡問題，但我們並不確切知道這場辯論的結果是什麼。因此，我認為我們必須在政策上非常謹慎地應對事件發生所帶來的不確定性。有幾項監管變化。這些是我看到的主要變化，但我們產生資本的能力非常強，這意味著我們繼續感到舒適，我們有能力為這些影響提供資金，並以 CET1 結束這一年，的水平- 因此我們可以就正在支付的特別股息做出決定。

And I rather do some extraordinary dividends throughout the year than rather do one-off just once and just do this with the tight capital. And we have a buffer in our risk appetite for the Board. We're always going to discuss the convenience here if it's 12%, 11.5% and what is the size of capital that we've seen ahead given our projections. And most important, is if we can continue to allocate the capital for growing the bank organically and inorganically for we can bring a great return for the shareholders. This is our central objective. But we don't want to retain the capital above a certain level. So therefore, distributions are going to be done in that sense. I hope that I gave you a general overview of the issue.

我寧願全年派發一些特別股息，也不願一次性派發一次，並且在資本緊張的情況下這樣做。我們對董事會的風險偏好有一定的緩衝。我們總是會在這裡討論是否方便，如果是 12%、11.5%，以及根據我們的預測，我們未來看到的資本規模是多少。最重要的是，如果我們能夠繼續配置資本來有機和無機地發展銀行，我們就能為股東帶來豐厚的回報。這是我們的中心目標。但我們不想保留超過某一水準的資本。因此，分配將從這個意義上進行。我希望我能夠讓您對這個問題有一個總體概述。

[Interpreted] The next question, we have Mario Pierry from Bank of America.

[解讀]下一個問題，我們有來自美國銀行的 Mario Pierry。

[Interpreted] Congratulations on the results. Milton, I wanted to explore more on the issues, the opportunities on the SMEs. We've discussed a lot of natural persons. But I wanted to see how you see the opportunities for growth. You talked about the other projects. What is the process of implementation of the timing of the (inaudible) Project and how is this project helping you differentiate your service to the companies in a digital way?

[解讀]恭喜結果。米爾頓，我想多探討中小企業的問題和機會。我們已經討論了很多自然人。但我想看看您如何看待成長機會。你談到了其他項目。 （聽不清楚）專案的實施過程是什麼？ 該專案如何幫助您以數位方式為公司提供差異化的服務？

[Interpreted] Thank you, Mario. Thank you for the report and for your kind words. Now this segment is super strategic for us, very relevant for us for many years. This is a segment that the bank has focused a lot. We've had a lot of learnings in the segment. And we managed in a relevant way to deliver value for the segment -- for the clients of the segment and creating value based on our value proposition and based on the business model that is developed in the retail.

[翻譯]謝謝你，馬裡奧。感謝您的報導和美言。現在，這個細分市場對我們來說具有超級戰略意義，多年來與我們非常相關。這是銀行非常關注的領域。我們在這領域學到了很多。我們以相關的方式管理，為該細分市場提供價值——為該細分市場的客戶，並根據我們的價值主張和零售業開發的商業模式創造價值。

We've grown 2 digits in the segment for many years. If you see the indicators of credit indicators absolutely controlled, behaving well with our prospective concerns. Of course, there are more difficult cycles, better cycles for the credit, but the fact is, is that we can grow with a lot of engagement, with a lot of increase of relationship with the clients and growing the base and increasing the penetration of these -- in these clients. And important, with the credit and the risk in -- well managed in our hands, we went through this process very well in the long term, and we are growing with a lot of quality.

多年來，我們在該領域的成長率一直是兩位數。如果看到信用指標的指標絕對受控，表現良好符合我們的預期。當然，還有更困難的周期、更好的信貸週期，但事實是，我們可以透過大量參與、與客戶關係的大量增加、擴大基礎和提高滲透率來成長。重要的是，由於我們手中的信用和風險得到了良好的管理，從長遠來看，我們很好地完成了這個過程，並且我們正在以很高的品質成長。

So this is a value proposition that fitted very well with us, with a lot of training, human capital that is differentiated and always with an overview of the client -- product, with an overview of the relationship with the client and long-term view. So we can always have and not just look at 1 quarter, but looking at the long-term view. We integrated the network in Rede, and we were very well successful. Redecard, Rede is not a business that we observe stand-alone. It starts to be a part of the value proposition of this segment. And once again, with the overview of the product but with a client.

因此，這是一個非常適合我們的價值主張，我們擁有大量的培訓、差異化的人力資本，並且始終對客戶——產品、與客戶的關係和長期觀點有一個概述。所以我們永遠不能只看一季度，而是著眼長遠。我們在 Rede 中整合了網絡，並且非常成功。 Redecard、Rede 並不是我們單獨觀察的業務。它開始成為該細分市場價值主張的一部分。再次，與客戶一起概述產品。

And we are very happy with the integration and with all the benefits that, that has brought with the operation. Atlas which will be rebaptized is the internal project. We have a name, we are going to announce the new name of Atlas project. It is at a soft launch project, friends or family. We have a lot of projects friends and family, but this is a family that's been growing. The feedbacks have been very positive thus far. We've learned a lot, we've evolved with the platform. We've applied technology, everything that is available in terms of technology, and we've grown with our clients and learn with them. Our overview is with that for the second quarter, we will have -- we will get the long-hanging fruits and then we can more share the concrete data with you. We are very happy with the advances.

我們對整合以及營運帶來的所有好處感到非常滿意。將重新命名的Atlas是內部專案。我們已經有了名字，我們將宣布Atlas專案的新名稱。這是一個軟啟動項目，朋友或家人。我們有很多項目，朋友和家人，但這是一個不斷成長的家庭。到目前為止，反饋非常積極。我們學到了很多東西，我們隨著平台的發展而發展。我們應用了技術，所有可用的技術，我們與客戶一起成長，與他們一起學習。我們的概述是第二季度，我們將獲得長期懸而未決的成果，然後我們可以與您更多地分享具體數據。我們對所取得的進展感到非常高興。

And we continue to believe in the success of Atlas, an offering that is completely different, full digital, focusing really in the paying and needs of the clients. of what they really need to work with their business. And we are going to work with clients and publics that are different, but companies that I see that have a value proposition and a solution that services their needs.

我們仍然相信 Atlas 會取得成功，這是一種完全不同的、全數位化的產品，真正專注於客戶的支付和需求。他們真正需要什麼來開展業務。我們將與不同的客戶和公眾合作，但我認為這些公司擁有價值主張和滿足他們需求的解決方案。

We're very happy with the evolution I would say, second quarter I'm going to give you more details. I hope to give you more details. In Itaú Day, we're going to discuss the evolution of Atlas and our expectations about our business companies is growing very well and very healthy. And with the profitability much higher than the profitability of the bank. So it's a high-performance segment, very well managed all throughout the year.

我想說，我們對這一進展感到非常滿意，第二季我將向您提供更多細節。我希望能為您提供更多詳細資訊。在義大利日，我們將討論 Atlas 的演變，以及我們對我們的業務公司的期望，這些公司發展得非常好、非常健康。而且獲利能力遠高於銀行的獲利能力。所以這是一個高性能的細分市場，全年管理得很好。

[Interpreted] And now to the next question. We have Bernardo Guttmann from XP.

[解釋] 現在進入下一個問題。我們有來自 XP 的 Bernardo Guttmann。

[Interpreted] Congratulations for the results. I have a question about profitability per segment.

[解讀]恭喜你的結果。我對每個細分市場的獲利能力有疑問。

Well, it seems that retail is going on a recovery trajectory that is very important, left an ROI of 17% for end of first quarter of last year to 23% now. What can we think about the elements that brought in this recovery? How can you project these returns on investment looking up ahead? The bank seems to be adjusting very well to the cost of serve service, and it's a very assertive movement of the risk offering that the portfolio that Milton explored very well. And on the opposite side, when we look at wholesale, the ROI is still very high, 28%.

嗯，看來零售業正在走上復甦的軌道，這一點非常重要，去年第一季末的投資回報率是 17%，現在是 23%。我們如何看待促成這次復甦的因素？您如何預測這些未來的投資報酬率？該銀行似乎正在很好地調整服務成本，這是米爾頓很好地探索的投資組合的風險產品的非常自信的運動。另一方面，當我們看批發時，投資回報率仍然非常高，為 28%。

When we look at the competition per operation, given the reduction in inventories and spread and capital markets, this scenario seems a bit more challenging. How can we think about this dynamic of the wholesale as well?

當我們考慮每項業務的競爭時，考慮到庫存、價差和資本市場的減少，這種情況似乎更具挑戰性。我們如何看待批發的這種動態？

[Interpreted] Thank you, Bernardo. Thank you for the initial words. Well, I remember a few quarters ago, was question about retail, I was -- I said that I wasn't happy with the profitability of the retail, not even the management, not even the CEO. At that moment in the past, we were doing a strong work of renewal of the value proposition, renew what we -- review of the business model. So we can get a profitability level that is more sustainable.

[翻譯]謝謝你，貝納多。謝謝你最初的話。嗯，我記得幾個季度前，有一個關於零售業的問題，我說我對零售業的盈利能力不滿意，甚至對管理層、甚至首席執行官都不滿意。在過去的那個時刻，我們正在做一項強有力的工作來更新價值主張，更新我們的業務模式審查。這樣我們就可以獲得更可持續的獲利水準。

We weren't -- we didn't want to go back to what we saw in the past. There's regulatory changes down the line. It's a segment that grew more credit than the income of services, revenue service, what brings the profitability, let's just say, to a lower threshold because of the credit in general, it brings a profitability level and it's closer to the cost of capital, but without foregoing the exploration and going -- getting closer to the clients and in relationship.

我們沒有──我們不想回到過去所看到的情況。監管方面即將改變。這是一個信貸成長超過服務收入、收入服務收入的細分市場，這使得獲利能力下降到一個較低的門檻，因為一般來說，信貸帶來了獲利水平，並且更接近資本成本，但不放棄探索和前進－更接近客戶和建立關係。

Here, the retail there is the individuals and the companies -- I mean, the companies are growing. This is a business that is improving year-on-year. But where we had a big turnaround, and it's still not done completely, but we've done a great part is in the individuals, the natural persons. I said that I wasn't happy with that business. But now our bottom was [16.5%] that we delivered in the results of profitability of the individuals and we got to [23%] now. They're still space for increasing this profitability. And there isn't a silver bullet.

在這裡，零售是個人和公司——我的意思是，公司正在成長。這是一項逐年改善的業務。但是我們已經有了很大的轉變，而且還沒有完全完成，但我們已經在個人、自然人方面做了很大一部分工作。我說我對那筆生意不滿意。但現在我們的底層是我們在個人獲利能力結果中提供的[16.5%]，現在我們達到了[23%]。他們仍有提高獲利能力的空間。而且沒有靈丹妙藥。

There is a series of initiatives. We changed the business model. We did all the review of Uniclass. We did a review of Personnalité, but we also did a review in-depth of our mono-liners. We had, in fact, a derisking -- important derisking to do in this portfolio, specifically credit card vehicles, even with the loans that we had to do -- and we've done very well. We did a sanitization very well of the credit and the portfolio for this segment so we can work with better profitability level. So there is a value proposition business model here, generation of top line, reduction of cost of credit and with an operation that is more efficient. So this evolution is the one that we've observed and we are very positive in regards to this evolution. We tend to continue to advance in profitability.

有一系列舉措。我們改變了商業模式。我們對 Uniclass 進行了所有的審查。我們對 Personalité 進行了審查，但我們也對我們的單線進行了深入審查。事實上，我們已經進行了去風險——在這個投資組合中要做的重要去風險，特別是信用卡工具，甚至我們必須做的貸款——而且我們做得很好。我們對該細分市場的信貸和投資組合進行了很好的清理，以便我們能夠以更好的盈利水平開展工作。因此，這裡存在著一種價值主張商業模式，即產生收入、降低信用成本、提高營運效率。因此，我們已經觀察到了這一演變，並且我們對這一演變非常積極。我們傾向於繼續提高獲利能力。

As I told you, we are not going to -- we're not going back to the threshold, but we didn't get to the peak of profitability, and I think that we can wait for this in this business. We are very satisfied with the evolution, and we continue to have the retail working with profitability that is close to the profitability of the bank. It was dilutive for the [ROI] some short time ago. but now it's aligned with the ROI of the bank that is very positive, creating value in a consistent way and sustainable way.

正如我告訴過你的，我們不會——我們不會回到門檻，但我們還沒有達到盈利的頂峰，我認為我們可以在這個行業等待這一點。我們對這一演變非常滿意，我們繼續讓零售業的獲利能力接近銀行的獲利能力。不久前它還稀釋了[投資報酬率]。但現在它與銀行的投資回報率保持一致，這是非常積極的，以一致和可持續的方式創造價值。

Wholesale, we had a small expansion in this quarter on the profitability. So we managed to operate with a strong profitability. And this is a business, of course, credit is important and has a very strong weight, but it goes beyond the credit and the balance sheet stand-alone. Our capacity to work with the clients in several businesses and several needs in the way that we say with Itaú BBA, it's from the D-Day until the most important day, the day-to-day to the D-Day of our clients. So we leave from a cash management that we have a share of cash that is very relevant of our basis of clients going through the cross-sell with several products with investments and derivatives. There is a penetration of other credits that is supporting the clients, but with the capacity -- enormous capacity of working both in fixed income and variable income where the M&A market we have a strong participation there. But remember that when we talk about profitability of the wholesale, I'm not talking about Itaú BBA.

批發方面，本季我們的獲利能力小幅擴張。因此，我們能夠以強勁的獲利能力運作。當然，這是一門生意，信用很重要，並且具有很強的權重，但它超越了信用和資產負債表的單獨範圍。正如我們對 Itañ BBA 所說的那樣，我們有能力與多個業務和多種需求的客戶合作，從諾曼第登陸日到最重要的一天，從我們客戶的日常到諾曼第登陸日。因此，我們從現金管理中得出，我們擁有的現金份額與我們的客戶基礎非常相關，這些客戶透過投資和衍生性商品進行多種產品的交叉銷售。其他信貸的滲透正在支持客戶，但我們在固定收益和可變收益領域都有巨大的工作能力，我們在併購市場上有很強的參與度。但請記住，當我們談論批發的盈利能力時，我不是說 Itañ BBA。

I'm talking about Itaú BBA. All of our agenda of asset management, the individuals, all the business of investment that we have in the bank, the brokerage, the custody management, we are working with a profitability level that is very high. Within efficiency, there is services, there is less leverage, inefficiency is a bit higher. But we can deliver relevant returns when we compare to other players, the magnitude of our asset, the investment of our business, the relevance of our business, the private banking with 30% of market share is contained in this profitability, and we've managed to gain markets month after month, day after day.

我說的是伊塔·BBA。我們所有的資產管理議程、個人、我們在銀行、經紀、託管管理的所有投資業務，我們都在以非常高的獲利水準開展工作。效率裡面有服務，槓桿就少一點，效率低一點就高一點。但是我們跟其他的公司比，我們是可以提供相關的回報的，我們的資產規模，我們業務的投入，我們業務的相關性，這個盈利能力裡麵包含了私人銀行30%的市場份額，我們已經做到了。

We're very satisfied with the evolution of this business. And now we have a bank that is outside of Brazil. All of our operation in LatAm also in this quarter, had an ROI that is close to 14.9% -- close to 15%, it was 14.9% to be precise to showing that our LatAm operation also has managed to grow and increase the profitability. So it's true that we've seen a higher pressure in the market -- the capital markets is very active in this first quarter. The positive side is that we are the best -- the main player, and we have the biggest -- the origination market share for the fixed income.

我們對這項業務的發展感到非常滿意。現在我們有一家位於巴西境外的銀行。本季我們在拉丁美洲的所有業務的投資回報率也接近 14.9%，接近 15%，準確地說是 14.9%，這表明我們的拉丁美洲業務也成功增長並提高了盈利能力。所以我們確實看到市場壓力更大了，第一季資本市場非常活躍。積極的一面是，我們是最好的——主要參與者，我們擁有最大的——固定收益的原始市場份額。

The primary one - so this is a relationship with the company that's cross-sell, being closer to the client, delivering to the client the best solution and the best structure for financing at that time. We've worked with relevant projects as well. And I would say, we are satisfied. The issue of more pressure and price-gouging, let's just say, we have a mantra in the bank, and we use it very well. When we see any rationality, when it exists, we have 2 paths, either we lose market or we destroy value.

第一個 - 所以這是與公司的交叉銷售關係，更接近客戶，為客戶提供當時最好的解決方案和最佳融資結構。我們也曾與相關項目進行過合作。我想說，我們很滿意。更大的壓力和哄抬物價的問題，我們銀行有一個口頭禪，我們用得很好。當我們看到任何合理性時，當它存在時，我們有兩條路，要么失去市場，要么破壞價值。

And our decision is to lose market in situations such as these. But we also understand that these are unsustainable in the long term. So when we see an anomaly in the pricing, in the capital allocation vision and the return vision in certain segments, we take a step back. In the sense that saying this is not sustainable. This is a poor capital allocation, it's dilutive for the ROI. And when we look at our models of capital allocation, we always work with our cost of funding that is lower, our model for capital allocation with our efficiencies, tax efficiencies and still, these are operations when we realize that these operations have destroyed value and are much below the return on the cost of capital, then we decide to stay away and try to find more sophisticated and Intelligent solutions for our clients.

在這種情況下，我們的決定就是失去市場。但我們也明白，從長遠來看，這些都是不可持續的。因此，當我們看到某些細分市場的定價、資本配置願景和回報願景出現異常時，我們會退後一步。從某種意義上說，這種說法是不可持續的。這是一種糟糕的資本配置，會稀釋投資報酬率。當我們審視我們的資本配置模型時，我們總是使用較低的融資成本，我們的資本配置模型具有我們的效率、稅收效率，但當我們意識到這些操作已經破壞了價值並且這些操作仍然存在時，我們就會進行操作。

But we don't get into that dispute. That's why I'm not worried about profitability. I think that the biggest driver for profitability on the medium, long term, and it has been a lever that is very positive for us is the cost of credit. In this segment, we've been running much below to what was the pre-pandemic and we, for some years, had a cost of credit that is very -- that is behaving well. There will be a normalization and this normalization has been slow.

但我們不會捲入這場爭論。這就是為什麼我不擔心獲利能力。我認為，從中長期來看，獲利能力的最大驅動力是信貸成本，這對我們來說是一個非常積極的槓桿。在這一領域，我們的運作水平遠低於疫情前的水平，而且多年來我們的信貸成本非常——表現良好。將會出現正常化，但這種正常化進展緩慢。

And the most important thing is that in relevant cases of credit that we've seen in the market, we usually, with a disciplined management of risk and concentration and allocation of capital, we've managed to do very well. I'm going to hit wood 3 times. But we're going to be -- we find it very well through these moments. So the segment of medium and small companies, we started to realize there is a pre-pressure here and there, but absolutely something within what was expected, normalization very slight one. And we haven't seen big events that we somehow are exposed. So I believe that wholesale, we see a good capacity to deliver value and good results up ahead. Competition is part of the game, and we are here on the long term and not just the next quarter.

最重要的是，在我們在市場上看到的相關信貸案例中，我們通常透過嚴格的風險管理以及資本的集中和配置，做得很好。我要敲敲木頭3次。但我們會——我們會在這些時刻發現它非常好。因此，在中小型企業領域，我們開始意識到到處都有預壓力，但絕對在預期之內，正常化非常輕微。我們還沒有看到我們以某種方式暴露的重大事件。因此，我相信，在批發方面，我們看到了未來提供價值和良好成果的良好能力。競爭是遊戲的一部分，我們著眼於長期，而不僅僅是下個季度。

[Interpreted] Next, Thiago Batista, UBS.

[解讀] 接下來是蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔，瑞銀集團。

[Interpreted] I have a question about how -- how transformational can it be, the one Itaú thing? And is this transformation? What is the focus? Is efficiency having a better credit control? Is having access to a client that you didn't have before? What can transform the bank in [one] Itaú?

[解釋] 我有一個問題，Itaú 的事情可以帶來多大的改變？這就是轉變嗎？重點是什麼？效率是否有更好的信用控制？是否可以存取您以前沒有的客戶？什麼可以改變[一]義大利的銀行？

[Interpreted] Okay. Thank you, Thiago. Also very nice to see you. Thank you for the words. I have a question for a question that wasn't asked before answering. That event that we launched in the nonrecurring in the balance sheet, of the selling of the participation of the company is the selling of Pismo, which is a company that we had 5.4% in participation. And we -- that company was sold to Visa. We had a stake in that company. It generated a result for the bank of BRL 180 million in the last line. But to keep our consistency in the recurring/nonrecurrent regardless of it being a positive result, we have the discipline of being positive or negative.

[解釋]好的。謝謝你，蒂亞戈。也很高興見到你。謝謝你的話。我有一個問題想問一個在回答之前沒有被問過的問題。我們在資產負債表中發起的非經常性出售公司參與的事件是出售Pismo，這是一家我們有5.4%參與的公司。我們──那家公司被賣給了 Visa。我們持有那家公司的股份。最後一行為銀行產生了 1.8 億雷亞爾的結果。但為了保持我們在經常性/非經常性結果上的一致性，無論它是正面的結果，我們都有正面或負面的紀律。

We launch in the recurring one is nonrecurrent. This is a classical case of a positive that we launched in the nonrecurrent in the balance sheet of the bank and not the result that, I would say, recurrent. Otherwise, we mess the information and you lose the capacity to understand what is operational and what is events. So just to give you that information, for you and the market, of that transaction that we are talking -- that we're talking about.

我們推出的經常性是非經常性的。這是我們在銀行資產負債表中的非經常性項目中推出的典型積極案例，而不是我想說的經常性結果。否則，我們會弄亂訊息，您將無法理解什麼是可操作的、什麼是事件。因此，只是為了向您和市場提供我們正在談論的交易的資訊。

What I wanted to discuss with you about the super app platform, I think that is transformational. At least with this, we believe that this is the way that we're going to run the project. I believe that, first, there is a maximum mobilization of the entirety of the organization, the most priority, the most important project of wholesale -- of retail, sorry, that is -- I mean, everybody is involved, CEOs, superintendent, [subordinates], analysts, everybody is involved and dedicated. This is a project that has to be done together.

我想和大家討論的是超級應用平台，我認為這是變革性的。至少，我們相信這就是我們運行該專案的方式。我相信，首先，整個組織要最大限度地動員起來，最優先、最重要的批發項目——零售項目，對不起，就是——我的意思是，每個人都參與其中，首席執行官、主管， [下屬]，分析師，每個人都參與其中，盡心盡力。這是一個必須共同完成的項目。

The coordination level is deep, but we are very happy with everything that we've done thus far. Our best expectation is that this is an evolution of the platform of which we had a quality, the best technology with indicators and KPI of clients that are very solid, with digital experience that is incredible, and we can use a great deal of these components to lever a platform that before were dependent on several products and systems. So we couldn't break the monolines and create the solutions into that product in between the businesses because really the platform -- that platform wouldn't allow for it.

協調程度很深，但我們對迄今為止所做的一切感到非常滿意。我們最好的期望是，這是平台的一次演變，我們擁有高品質、最好的技術、非常可靠的客戶指標和 KPI、令人難以置信的數位體驗，我們可以使用大量這些組件來利用以前依賴於多種產品和系統的平台。因此，我們無法打破單線並在業務之間為該產品創建解決方案，因為實際上該平台不允許這樣做。

So here, there is a confluence of 2 events: the digital transformation of the bank and the evolution and investments of everything that we've done with Witch platform. Joining these 2 initiatives, we can get to the solution, which is a super app. The Turbo app, which is a full bank offering for the clients. Well, I don't want to do any type of projection because as any project, there is a risk for the execution. I mean there are many challenges looking up ahead, but my expectation is that this will be transformational. Transformational for the experience of the client. It's not just this. We have an accelerated program for digital transformation in the retail, improving the value offering, the offering of credit being improved in the context of journey.

因此，這裡有兩個事件的匯合：銀行的數位轉型以及我們在 Witch 平台上所做的一切的演變和投資。加入這兩項舉措，我們就可以找到解決方案，這是一個超級應用程式。 Turbo 應用程式是為客戶提供的完整銀行服務。嗯，我不想做任何類型的預測，因為與任何專案一樣，執行都存在風險。我的意思是，展望未來會面臨很多挑戰，但我期望這將是變革性的。為客戶的體驗帶來改變。不僅僅是這個。我們有一個加速零售業數位轉型的計劃，改善價值提供，在旅程中改善信貸提供。

So there are several fronts albeit safety because safety is the experience of the client. We are certain that offering a safe offer for the client is generating value at the end. So we are working with a lot of focus on this. Our overview is that if we are making this work, and we are very trusting that it will work, we will unlock, in fact, a very big value in individuals, in natural persons and that means working with a generation that is strong business with clients that we have relationship. But it's a very limited relationship, and we can do that at a cost of service that is better with UX and a value proposition that is better and we're going to have to learn to generate cross-sell.

因此，儘管安全，但還有幾個方面，因為安全是客戶的體驗。我們確信，為客戶提供安全的報價最終會產生價值。因此，我們非常關注這一點。我們的概述是，如果我們讓這項工作成功，並且我們非常相信它會成功，事實上，我們將釋放個人、自然人的巨大價值，這意味著與具有強大業務能力的一代人合作我們有關係的客戶。但這是一種非常有限的關係，我們可以以更好的用戶體驗和更好的價值主張為代價來做到這一點，我們將不得不學會產生交叉銷售。

And we've made an effort all throughout the years to learn how to do businesses with platforms that are uniquely only digital. And we can service, therefore, a public that is below the threshold of the waterline when you place in cost of service in the equation. So we're going to be more efficient, more digital-first, in this business, and the expectation is very high. So we are working in the bank and this can be transformational for the for the retail, and it can be a relevant growth lever for the future. And you talk about the cost of credit. A great deal of these clients, we have a relationship. We know the behavior. We have appetite for credit and it's not quite a low income. When you talk how is the platform, [Witch], had an approach that was focused on the lower income in the younger product.

多年來，我們一直在努力學習如何利用獨特的數位平台來開展業務。因此，當您將服務成本納入等式時，我們可以為低於水線閾值的公眾提供服務。因此，在這個行業中，我們將變得更有效率、更加數位化，並且期望非常高。因此，我們在銀行工作，這對零售業來說可能是一場變革，也可能成為未來的相關成長槓桿。您談到了信貸成本。我們與許多這樣的客戶有關係。我們知道這種行為。我們對信貸有興趣，收入也不低。當您談論該平台如何時，[女巫]有一種專注於年輕產品中較低收入的方法。

This is a solution that goes through all the segments. Yes, it goes on the low income, and it can be a value proposition for us to service exclusively the clients and that way, but it goes on all segments. And the big advantage of this solution is that you can customize for the need of each client. So you don't have the one size fits all, you're going to have a customization depending on the need. And we will be able to attack the medium and high income with the known behavior with clients that we know and I can deliver the concessions that are very important and the share.

這是一個貫穿所有部分的解決方案。是的，它適用於低收入，對我們來說，專門為客戶提供服務可能是一個價值主張，但它適用於所有細分市場。此解決方案的一大優點是您可以根據每個客戶的需求進行客製化。因此，您沒有適合所有情況的尺寸，您將根據需要進行客製化。我們將能夠透過我們認識的客戶的已知行為來攻擊中高收入人群，我可以提供非常重要的讓步和份額。

So I believe that there is a lot of talk. It's not our start. What we prefer is overdelivery, under promise. I'm not overpromising, but we are very confident with the future and I will give you more details as time goes by.

所以我相信有很多談論。這不是我們的開始。我們更喜歡的是超額交付、低於承諾。我並沒有過度承諾，但我們對未來非常有信心，隨著時間的推移，我會向您提供更多細節。

Next question, Brian Flores, Citi Bank.

下一個問題是花旗銀行的 Brian Flores。

[Interpreted] I wanted to talk about Latin America. On the one side, we are seeing a contribution with less, but on the other hand, the profitability is improving. So I wanted to ask you, how -- what are the trends that you talk amongst themselves from now, from that one? And what is the level of profitability that you are foreseeing for this operation in LatAm?

[翻譯]我想談談拉丁美洲。一方面，我們看到貢獻減少，但另一方面，獲利能力正在改善。所以我想問你，從現在開始，你們之間談論的趨勢是什麼？您預計該業務在拉丁美洲的獲利水準是多少？

[Interpreted] Thank you for the questions. And your action shows the importance of looking outside of Brazil, not just talking about Brazil, right? This is a very important agenda for us the agenda of regional Latin America on the long term. And we've managed to perform in a very strong level in all the countries that we are present in. What happened is that on the year-on-year, there is a negative impact, which is the exit from Argentina, which impacts the numbers. This shows a smaller result in regards to the results, the result of Brazil is growing.

[解釋]謝謝你的提問。你的行動顯示了放眼巴西以外的重要性，而不僅僅是談論巴西，對吧？從長遠來看，這對我們拉丁美洲地區的議程來說是一個非常重要的議程。我們在我們所在的所有國家都取得了非常強勁的表現。這顯示巴西的成績正在成長，而巴西的成績卻在成長。

Importantly, I would say that Latin America now represents, ballpark, about 7% of the result of the conglomerate but with 20% of the assets. Why? Because these are countries where the ROI is -- the results are lower. The profitability is lower. So you have a larger portfolio, but a representativeness in the last line, smaller. What can I tell you? Well, first of all, Argentina, it's misleading when we just look at the line of the top line and the [DRE] of the balance sheet of the bank because it was positive in the generation of results and reduced my cost of hedge for the capital index. So it brought a series of effects with the margin of the market and had a positive result.

重要的是，我想說，拉丁美洲現在大約佔該集團業績的 7% 左右，但擁有 20% 的資產。為什麼？因為這些國家的投資報酬率較高，但結果較低。獲利能力較低。所以你有一個更大的投資組合，但最後一行的代表性較小。我能告訴你什麼？嗯，首先，阿根廷，當我們只看銀行資產負債表的頂線和 [DRE] 時，這是有誤導性的，因為它在產生結果方面是積極的，並降低了我的對沖成本資本指數。因此為市場帶來了一系列的影響，並取得了正面的效果。

Problem of our continuous that we had the CTA famous that was in the patrimony that all throughout the time it accumulates, the difference between the interest rates between Brazil and Argentina had a negative number and it reduced the patrimony of the bank. So Argentina had a positive effect in profitability and a better result when you looked at the ROI because it decreased the P&L by the wrong reason. So when we looked at the shareholder, Argentina was a detractor of value of the bank.

我們的連續問題是，我們有著名的CTA，它是在資產中的，在它累積的整個過程中，巴西和阿根廷之間的利率差呈負數，這減少了銀行的資產。因此，當您查看投資回報率時，阿根廷對盈利能力產生了積極影響，並且取得了更好的結果，因為它以錯誤的原因降低了損益。因此，當我們審視股東時，阿根廷是銀行價值的貶低者。

So our vision of selling the operation, and I think that the timing was very adequate, we saw other foreign banks leaving the operation thereafter. I think that the decision was correct, in consolidation for the local banks. What we kept in Argentina is an operations servicing the corporate clients for a very senior group of the bank and even the CEO, Juan, that has been the leader of the operation in Argentina, he is leading all of that front and we keep the relationship with the big economic groups in the region, booking the offshore vehicle operation. The other

因此，我們出售該業務的願景，我認為時機非常充分，我們看到其他外資銀行此後退出了該業務。我認為這個決定是正確的，並對當地銀行進行了整合。我們在阿根廷保留的是為銀行非常高級的團隊甚至首席執行官胡安（Juan）服務的企業客戶的業務，他一直是阿根廷業務的領導者，他領導著所有這方面的工作，我們保持著關係與該地區的大型經濟集團合作，預訂海上車輛營運。另一個

countries, Uruguay and Paraguay, we've seen important growth with profitability that is very solid. Growth of the business in several countries. Now these are businesses that even though we have a great profitability and they grow, in the whole, they're less relevant given the dimension, continental dimension, geographic dimension of these countries, populational size, et cetera. And in Chile, we had last year, we had very good years, and this is a year that we go back to operating to what Gabriel and myself. Many years, we said there was a profitability of -- expectation of profitability for Chile for the long term, which was a [royalty] of 16%.

在烏拉圭和巴拉圭等國家，我們看到了重要的成長和非常穩健的獲利能力。多個國家的業務成長。現在，這些業務儘管我們擁有巨大的獲利能力並且不斷成長，但總體而言，考慮到這些國家的規模、大陸規模、地理規模、人口規模等，它們的相關性較低。在智利，我們去年度過了非常美好的時光，今年我們又回到了加布里埃爾和我自己的經營模式。多年來，我們表示智利的長期獲利能力預期為 16%（特許權使用費）。

So that's where Chile has been running on the local level when we did the adjustments here, taking into consideration the tax issue and the capital issue and the hedge of the net capital, the profitability goes to a lower threshold. But even so, Latin America is accretive and very close to the cost of capital, which generates value in the bottom line result, but it's a bit dilutive in the ROI given our ROI. So we think that these countries are going to grow. The countries are reacting economically. There are opportunities. And Colombia has been the big challenge, whether it is by macro factors macro factors, our bank there is small sized. So you cannot work with a subscale bank on the retail.

所以我們在這裡調整的時候智利當地一直是這樣的情況，考慮到稅收問題和資本問題以及淨資本的對沖，獲利能力到了一個較低的門檻。但即便如此，拉丁美洲仍然具有增值性，並且非常接近資本成本，這在底線結果中產生了價值，但考慮到我們的投資回報率，它在投資回報率方面有點稀釋。所以我們認為這些國家將會成長。各國正在經濟上做出反應。有機會。而哥倫比亞一直面臨很大的挑戰，無論是宏觀因素還是宏觀因素，我們銀行都存在著規模偏小。因此，您無法與零售規模較小的銀行合作。

We have an allocated team trying to do the best, doing the structure adjustment, working strongly in efficiency so we can have within what is possible, the best possible operation given the (inaudible) local operations. So we're pretty positive in regards to the region. We've delivered the result. It's a very strong position. Nonetheless, it will now represent more than 7%, 8% of the results of the bank. And if we continue to expand in that speed, it will be that ballpark that we should observe, but this is a very solid result and quality result.

我們有一個分配的團隊試圖做到最好，進行結構調整，努力提高效率，以便我們能夠在可能的範圍內，在考慮到（聽不清楚）本地運營的情況下實現最佳運營。所以我們對該地區非常樂觀。我們已經交付了結果。這是一個非常強勢的地位。儘管如此，它現在將佔銀行業績的 7%、8% 以上。如果我們繼續以這種速度擴張，我們應該觀察到這個大致情況，但這是一個非常可靠的結果和高品質的結果。

[Interpreted] Next question, Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

[解釋] 下一個問題，Renato Meloni，自治。

[Interpreted] Congratulations on the consistency of the results, let's go back to the issue of growth in the individuals, the natural persons portfolio. I mean, you see the inflection point on the growth of the portfolio with the industry. Even with the quality of credit that is better

【解讀】恭喜結果的一致性，讓我們回到個人、自然人投資組合的成長問題。我的意思是，您會看到投資組合隨行業成長的轉折點。即使信用品質較好

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

Just at this point, you're more likely than not to call the [AT1s]? Second question, yes, on the 29th. And then third, on the senior bonds, other than potentially refinancing the '25s in the offshore market. I would assume that at this point, you don't have any relevant needs to issue senior bonds in dollars. But just to check your thinking regarding AT1s, Tier 2 and senior bonds in dollars.

就在這個時候，您更有可能打電話給[AT1s]？第二個問題，是的，29號。第三，除了可能在離岸市場為 25 年代的再融資之外的高級債券。我認為目前您沒有任何發行美元優先債券的相關需求。但只是為了檢查您對 AT1、二級債券和美元高級債券的看法。

Perfect, Nicolas. Good to see you again. It's always good to have some fixed-income questions just to go through the 3 of them. So the first one, the answer is yes. We have the same approach for the AT1. I know it's callable with 6 months, and we're going to take the same approach that we did in the past one. We look a few metrics before making the decision with the information we have today. The reset or to call this bond and to access the market would be much more expensive than simply don't exercise. So we have an economic approach for the AT1. For the AT2, for the Tier 2 -- we don't have the AT2. But the Tier 2, we see it by the year-end, we didn't make the decision yet, either or not, we're going to call that. But it's -- as you said, it's important to know that we have this 5-year term that we go year-by-year losing the benefit of capital. So we do a lot of calculation here to make sure that we are optimizing in the best way, our capital base Considering the price and that you lose 20% per year in terms of capital benefit.

完美，尼古拉斯。很高興再次見到你。提出一些固定收益問題來解決其中的三個問題總是好的。所以第一個問題，答案是肯定的。我們對 AT1 採取相同的方法。我知道它可以在 6 個月內贖回，我們將採取與過去相同的方法。在根據我們今天掌握的資訊做出決定之前，我們會先查看一些指標。重置或贖回該債券並進入市場將比簡單地不行使要昂貴得多。因此，我們為 AT1 提供了一種經濟的方法。對於 AT2，對於 Tier 2——我們沒有 AT2。但是第二層，我們會在年底看到它，我們還沒有做出決定，無論是否，我們都會這麼稱呼它。但正如您所說，重要的是要知道，我們的五年任期是我們逐年失去資本的好處。因此，我們在這裡進行了大量計算，以確保我們以最佳方式優化我們的資本基礎，考慮到價格，並且就資本效益而言，您每年損失 20%。

On the senior bond, yes, you are right. We don't have any need to do or to tap the market with a senior bond. Of course, we are always going to do that if we find out it's a good opportunity to access funding. But we have a lot of funding as well in the local market. Despite all of that, we always want to maintain some yield curve market in the offshore market. So whenever we have the opportunity, we try to keep some bonds outstanding. But the main decision that we make all the time is look to the bond and see if the price they yield and what are the alternatives. We have a very strong Level 3, Basel III indicator of liquidity. Our LCR is very, very strong at this moment. NSFR, it's very strong at this moment. So we don't have any liability issue, any big discussion. We'll have -- we'll be much more price-oriented than our liquidity need to put this way. So thank you again for the question.

關於高級債券，是的，你是對的。我們沒有任何必要透過優先債券來開拓市場。當然，如果我們發現這是一個獲得資金的好機會，我們總是會這樣做。但我們在當地市場也有大量資金。儘管如此，我們始終希望在離岸市場上維持一定的殖利率曲線市場。因此，只要有機會，我們就會嘗試保留一些未償還的債券。但我們一直做出的主要決定是專注於債券，看看它們的收益率以及替代方案是什麼。我們擁有非常強大的巴塞爾協議 III 3 級流動性指標。目前我們的 LCR 非常非常強大。 NSFR，目前非常強勁。所以我們沒有任何責任問題，也沒有任何重大的討論。我們將比我們的流動性需求更加以價格為導向。再次感謝您的提問。

[Interpreted] Now let's go to the last question of the call, last but not least, Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

[解讀] 現在讓我們討論電話會議的最後一個問題，最後但並非最不重要的問題，摩根大通的尤里·費爾南德斯 (Yuri Fernandes)。

[Interpreted] Congratulations on the consistency. I wanted to ask about deposits. It's very difficult to compare the dynamic. We end up calling these different numbers. So one thing might mean something for me and something for the other banks, but it's very good, even adjusting for the exchange rate Chile, It's a very good quarter. And you have great initiatives. I mean high income. So I wanted to get from the conglomerate, where is the growth in funding coming from? Is it more corporate? I mean there is a great DCM quarter. Is it more high income? I wanted to understand in your franchise, what is helping in this performance versus the peers? And congratulations.

【解讀】恭喜一致性。我想問一下存款的事。動態比較是非常困難的。我們最終撥打了這些不同的號碼。因此，一件事可能對我和其他銀行都有意義，但它非常好，即使根據智利的匯率進行調整，這是一個非常好的季度。你們有偉大的舉措。我說的是高收入。所以我想從集團公司得到資金的成長來自哪裡？是不是更企業化了？我的意思是 DCM 季度表現出色。是不是收入更高了？我想了解在你們的特許經營中，與同行相比，是什麼對這種績效有幫助？恭喜你。

[Interpreted] Thank you, Yuri. It's great to see you. Well, the issue of deposits is -- there are several explanations. The deposit in this quarter, we see a variation that is slightly positive year-on-year. We lose the basis, but it's important to qualify this deposit, the local deposit in reais, we've grown, and we've increased the penetration and engagement with our clients. where we've seen higher volatility was relevant tickets of deposits in foreign currency because of the increase in the interest rates in the U.S. So these are clients that typically have the deposit without remuneration or with the remuneration of the day-to-day, and they started to do their cash management, realizing that the interest rate naturally increased and the cost of opportunity changed.

[翻譯]謝謝你，尤里。很高興見到你。嗯，存款問題是──有幾種解釋。本季的存款，我們看到年比略有正向變化。我們失去了基礎，但重要的是要使這筆存款（以雷亞爾為單位的本地存款）合格，我們已經成長，並且我們增加了與客戶的滲透和互動。由於美國利率上升，我們看到較高的波動性是外幣存款的相關票據。發生變化。

So here, we felt a volatility of great tickets, big corporate clients with concentrated volumes who ended up doing a deposit. So you migrate from the one lump sum and it goes through the long term, and there is the migration. Another phenomena that we realize with the deposits, specifically for treasury products, which is the risk call offer that we observed in the market over the last few times. You remember the event of the retailer that impacted the credit industry and the funds. And we saw the movement for -- given the interest rate for the titles that are exempted for letters and so on. So the idea -- the advantage of being a full bank and working with all the products because that at the moment, such as this wealth migration, we end up absorbing a great deal of these resources when they migrate from one strategy to the other.

因此，在這裡，我們感受到了大票的波動，交易量集中的大企業客戶最終進行了存款。因此，您從一次性付款開始進行遷移，並且會經歷長期的過程，然後就會發生遷移。我們在存款中發現的另一個現象，特別是國債產品，就是我們過去幾次在市場上觀察到的風險買入報價。您還記得影響信貸行業和基金的零售商事件。考慮到信件等豁免書名的利率，我們看到了這項變化。因此，這個想法是作為一家完整的銀行並與所有產品合作的優勢，因為目前，例如這次財富遷移，當這些資源從一種策略遷移到另一種策略時，我們最終會吸收大量資源。

This is a decline overview that we had ever more. So you have a consultant of investment that is looking at the client and look taking care of the relationship, and it doesn't matter if the product being offered as CDB or a fund, it's important to the client is being serviced given the context of the market and the profitability expectation of that portfolio. So there is a migration. Yes, for treasury products that has an impact. We have worked with a high discipline of prices because we have a cash and we have a liquidity level that is very high. I wouldn't say that these are big tickets of the -- you have to look at the prices that we practice.

這是我們經歷過的更多的衰退概述。因此，您有一位投資顧問正在關注客戶並照顧與客戶的關係，無論產品是作為 CDB 還是基金提供，重要的是要在考慮到的背景下為客戶提供服務。所以就有了遷移。是的，對於有影響的國債產品。我們在價格方面有著嚴格的紀律，因為我們有現金，而且流動性水平非常高。我不會說這些都是大額門票——你必須看看我們實行的價格。

We are progressing the prices that are fair given the liquidity moment of the bank, but where we managed to grow and penetrate more is in the capture of wholesale -- of retail, sorry. They have the big private bank, the big fortunes, natural [participants] but until the high income, medium income, which is where we have more relevant pockets for investment. So we've grown relevantly in the last quarter of last year. It was a very strong growth of capture and we continue to see this dynamic.

考慮到銀行的流動性，我們正在提高公平的價格，但我們成功成長和滲透更多的是在批發零售領域，抱歉。他們擁有大型私人銀行、巨額財富、自然[參與者]，但直到高收入、中等收入，這是我們有更多相關投資空間的地方。因此，我們在去年最後一個季度取得了相應的成長。捕獲量成長非常強勁，我們將繼續看到這種動態。

So this shows, first, is a correct product, correct price, experience, naturally, of investment and the value proposition with a consultancy of investments and the managers are working strongly in this capture. So I believe that this coordination has worked very well. And we have over 100% of our portfolio of retail finance with deposits of retail itself, which shows that we've managed to naturally have a ratio and the deposit and assets very strongly, and this brings longevity, brings engagement. It has a long-term relationship, and we are very happy with the advancement and still lots to do. Nobody is comfortable here with what was done thus far.

因此，這首先表明，這是一個正確的產品、正確的價格、投資經驗，以及投資顧問公司的價值主張，而管理階層正在努力實現這一目標。所以我認為這種協調效果非常好。我們的零售金融投資組合中超過 100% 都是零售本身的存款，這表明我們自然而然地擁有一個非常強勁的比率，存款和資產非常強勁，這帶來了長壽，帶來了參與度。它有著長期的關係，我們對進展感到非常高興，而且還有很多工作要做。沒有人對迄今為止所做的事情感到滿意。

[Interpreted] Last question, and then we can close our session of Q&A, and also we closed, Milton and Broedel, thank you for the partition, our video conference for the results of the first quarter of '24. Before giving the floor to Milton, I would like to inform once again the invitation to Itaú Day on June 19, the -- you can enroll and you can submit the questions for Itaú Day . Enrollment is open, you can take part in this day. As Milton said, we're going to bring more details of what is behind the bank. With that, Milton, I will give the floor to you so you can close our call.

[解釋]最後一個問題，然後我們可以結束問答環節，米爾頓和布羅德爾，我們也結束了，謝謝你們的分區，我們的視訊會議關於 24 年第一季度的結果。在請 Milton 發言之前，我想再次告知 6 月 19 日參加 Itaï Day 的邀請，您可以報名並提交 Itaï Day 的問題。報名現已開放，您可以在這一天參加。正如米爾頓所說，我們將提供有關銀行背後的更多細節。米爾頓，接下來我將請您發言，以便您可以結束我們的通話。

[Interpreted] Well, once again, I would like to finish thanking, once again, all of you. Thank you for the participation, reinforce the invitation that Renato did. Thank you for, Renato, Broedel and another quarter, we're very happy with the results. We are growing 20% year-on-year. Bottom line growing 15%. Profitability, very solid, but more than that, is that behind these numbers, there is an enormous volume of business of relationships being developed and improved and 100,000 Itubers that are in love for what they do, and they make us deliver this value for you, for our shareholders, for our clients, for our community.

[翻譯]好吧，我想再次感謝大家。感謝您的參與，加強雷納託的邀請。謝謝雷納托、布羅德爾和另一個季度的努力，我們對結果非常滿意。我們年增 20%。底線成長 15%。盈利能力非常穩定，但更重要的是，在這些數字的背後，有大量正在發展和改善的關係業務，以及 100,000 名熱愛他們所做工作的 Iuber，他們讓我們為您提供這種價值，為我們的股東、為我們的客戶、為我們的社區。

This is our long-term overview. We are celebrating the 100-year anniversary, but we're thinking about the next 100 years. I would like to thank you for the support. The feedback is always well seen. The past performance is not a guarantee of the future performance. We are going to do the (inaudible) to deliver the best bank impossible to deliver the best bank for the society and the community.

這是我們的長期概述。我們正在慶祝 100 週年，但我們也在思考下一個 100 年。我要感謝您的支持。反饋總是很明顯。過去的表現並不能保證未來的表現。我們將盡一切努力（聽不清楚）為社會和社區打造最好的銀行，這是不可能的。

I leave you with my respect and my words of solidarity to the entirety of Rio Grande do Sul and thank you to all the collaborators for everything that we built together all throughout these years. With that, I close. We will see you soon, the New York conference next week. We will certainly meet several of you personally. So we will see you in the next conference or in next week's conference. Thank you very much.

我向你們致以我對整個南里奧格蘭德州的敬意和聲援，並感謝所有合作者這些年來我們共同建設的一切。說完，我就結束了。我們很快就會在下週的紐約會議上見到你們。我們肯定會親自見到你們中的一些人。我們將在下次會議或下週的會議上見到您。非常感謝。

[Portions of this transcript that are marked Interpreted were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call.]

[本文字記錄中標示為「已翻譯」的部分是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。