Intercorp Financial Services Inc (IFS) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the Intercorp Financial Services fourth quarter 2023 conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

早上好，歡迎參加 Intercorp Financial Services 2023 年第四季電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中。（操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Ms. Valentina Porto of InspIR Group. Ma'am, you may begin.

現在我很高興將電話轉接給 InspIR 集團的 Valentina Porto 女士。女士，您可以開始了。

Thank you, and good morning, everyone. On today's call, Intercorp Financial Services will discuss its fourth quarter 2023 earnings. We are very pleased to have with us, Mr. Luis Felipe Castellanos, Chief Executive Officer, Intercorp Financial Services; Ms. Michela Casassa, Chief Financial Officer, Intercorp Financial Services; Mr. Gonzalo Basadre, Chief Executive Officer, Interseguro; Bruno Ferreccio, Chief Executive Officer, Inteligo; Mr. Carlos Tori, Executive Vice President of payments at Intercorp Financial Services.

謝謝大家，大家早安。在今天的電話會議上，Intercorp Financial Services 將討論其 2023 年第四季的收益。我們很高興邀請 Intercorp Financial Services 執行長 Luis Felipe Castellanos 先生與我們共事。 Michela Casassa 女士，Intercorp Financial Services 財務長； Gonzalo Basadre 先生，Interseguro 執行長； Bruno Ferreccio，Inteligo 執行長； Carlos Tori 先生，Intercorp Financial Services 支付執行副總裁。

They will be discussing the results that were distributed by the company yesterday. There is also a webcast video presentation to accompany the discussion during this call. If you didn't receive a copy of the presentation or the earnings report, they are now available on the company's website at ifs.com.pe to download a copy.

他們將討論公司昨天發布的結果。在這次電話會議期間，還有一個網路廣播視訊演示來配合討論。如果您沒有收到簡報或收益報告的副本，現在可以在公司網站 ifs.com.pe 上下載副本。

Otherwise for any reason, if you need any assistance today, please call InspIR Group in New York at 6469408843. I would like to remind you that today's call is for investors and analysts only. Therefore, questions from the media will not be taken.

否則，無論出於何種原因，如果您今天需要任何幫助，請致電紐約的 InspIR Group，電話：6469408843。我想提醒您，今天的電話會議僅針對投資者和分析師。因此，不會接受媒體的提問。

Please be advised that forward-looking statements may be made during this conference call. These do not account for future economic circumstances, industry conditions, the company's future performance or financial results as such statements are made based on several assumptions and factors that could change causing actual results to materially differ from the current expectations.

請注意，本次電話會議期間可能會做出前瞻性陳述。這些並未考慮未來的經濟環境、產業狀況、公司的未來業績或財務業績，因為此類報表是基於若干假設和因素做出的，這些假設和因素可能會發生變化，導致實際結果與當前預期存在重大差異。

For a complete note on forward-looking statements, please refer to the earnings presentation and report issued yesterday. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Luis Felipe Castellanos, Chief Executive Officer of Intercorp Financial Services for his opening remarks. Mr. Castellanos, please go ahead, sir.

有關前瞻性陳述的完整說明，請參閱昨天發布的收益演示和報告。現在我很高興邀請 Intercorp Financial Services 執行長 Luis Felipe Castellanos 先生致開幕詞。卡斯特拉諾斯先生，請繼續，先生。

Thank you. Good morning all, and welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. I'm going to thank you very much for attending. I wanted to start by making a brief summary of our strategy at IFS.

謝謝。大家早安，歡迎參加我們的 2023 年第四季和全年財報電話會議。我非常感謝您的出席。我想先簡單總結一下我們在 IFS 的策略。

You know that our aspiration includes to become the leading digital financial services solution for clients providing profitable products and services in our key businesses with the best digital experience for our customers based on operational excellence and leverage on advanced analytics and the best talents out our competitive advantage. This is a strategy we are employing, and we continue to execute it with a long-term vision.

您知道，我們的願望包括成為領先的數位金融服務解決方案，為客戶提供可獲利的產品和服務，在我們的關鍵業務中提供基於卓越營運的最佳數位體驗，並利用先進的分析和最優秀的人才來發揮我們的競爭優勢。這是我們正在採用的策略，並且我們將繼續以長期願景執行該策略。

Regarding economic environment, 2023 was a challenging year into with virtually no (inaudible) [goal] and contraction in domestic demand, which translated into a deterioration of the payment capabilities of our retail customers.

就經濟環境而言，2023 年是充滿挑戰的一年，幾乎沒有（聽不清楚）[目標]，而且國內需求收縮，這導致我們零售客戶的支付能力惡化。

But the positive side, inflation decreased consistently during the second half of 2023 and the Central Bank has reduced (inaudible) by 100 basis points during the year to 6.35%. Also expectations of a strong El Nino phenomenon have decreased.

但正面的一面是，2023 年下半年通膨持續下降，央行年內降息（聽不清楚）100 個基點至 6.35%。對強烈厄爾尼諾現象的預期也有所下降。

And for 2024, GDP growth of around 3% is now expected, which is a good recovery versus last year. Despite this challenging environment, IFS continues to show resilience in its core operations. In 2023, we grew our customer base and relevance, and we continue to consolidate our results of our digitalization efforts.

目前預計 2024 年 GDP 成長將在 3% 左右，與去年相比已實現良好復甦。儘管面臨如此充滿挑戰的環境，IFS 的核心業務仍持續展現出韌性。2023 年，我們擴大了客戶群和相關性，並持續鞏固數位化工作的成果。

At Interbank, market shares across key business lines remained strong despite moderation in consumer loans, as we are still digesting increased levels of cost of risk, mainly in the consumer finance segments. Despite the challenging conditions, Interbank remains well provisioned and well capitalized.

在銀行間，儘管消費貸款放緩，但主要業務線的市佔率仍然強勁，因為我們仍在消化風險成本水準的上升，主要是在消費金融領域。儘管面臨充滿挑戰的環境，銀行同業拆借仍保持充足的準備金和充足的資本。

And in Interseguro, in 2023, we continue growing (inaudible) of individual life and retail insurance, while consolidating market leadership in annuities. Investment results continued to be solid in the company.

在 Interseguro，到 2023 年，我們將繼續發展（聽不清楚）個人壽險和零售保險，同時鞏固年金市場的領導地位。公司投資績效持續穩健。

Although global macro conditions impacted negatively our investment results in our wealth management business, in 2023, Inteligo's results recovered from the negative profit posted in 2022.

儘管全球宏觀情勢對我們財富管理業務的投資績效產生了負面影響，但2023年，Inteligo的業績從2022年的負利潤中恢復過來。

Finally, on payments, despite growth in merchants, volumes are moderating in 2023, and this has taken a tolling (inaudible) results. However, Interbank and Izipay continue working on creating synergies. While (inaudible) continues to accelerate with a fully interoperable P2P system.

最後，在付款方面，儘管商家數量有所增長，但 2023 年交易量正在放緩，這帶來了嚴重的（聽不清楚）結果。然而，Interbank 和 Izipay 繼續致力於創造協同效應。同時（聽不清楚）透過完全可互通的 P2P 系統繼續加速。

We remain confident that IFS will continue generating sustainable returns in the coming years as we are being cautious with our operations. Given the scenario we're facing today, we continue working on our long-term strategy, which is to ultimately empower all Peruvians to achieve their financial well-being.

我們仍然相信，由於我們對營運持謹慎態度，IFS 將在未來幾年繼續產生永續回報。鑑於我們今天面臨的情況，我們將繼續制定長期策略，即最終使所有秘魯人實現財務福祉。

Now let me pass it on to Michela so she can give you a detailed review of our results. Thank you.

現在讓我將其轉交給 Michela，以便她可以為您詳細審查我們的結果。謝謝。

Thanks, Luis Felipe. Good morning, and welcome everyone to Intercorp Financial Services year end 2023 earnings call. Today, we will review five sections of our earnings presentation, starting with the macro outlook for Peru.

謝謝，路易斯費利佩。早上好，歡迎大家參加 Intercorp Financial Services 2023 年終收益電話會議。今天，我們將回顧收益報告的五個部分，首先是秘魯的宏觀前景。

On slide 3, complementing what Luis Felipe mentioned, the decrease in GDP and in inflation for four quarters in a row has triggered the first cuts in the soles rate. Revenue down from the peak of 7.75% to 6.25% as of today.

在投影片 3 上，補充了 Luis Felipe 提到的內容，GDP 和通貨膨脹連續四個季度下降引發了索爾利率的首次下調。截至目前，營收從高峰的 7.75% 下降至 6.25%。

Inflation has decreased from a yearly 8.8% at the peak of June to 3% as of January already within the Central Bank's target. And exchange rate has remained relatively stable. 2024 is expected to be a year of recovery for the Peruvian economy with an expectation of 3% GDP growth mainly due to the following reasons.

通膨率已從 6 月高峰的年率 8.8% 降至 1 月的 3%，已在央行目標之內。而匯率也保持相對穩定。 2024年預計將是秘魯經濟復甦的一年，GDP預期成長3%，主要有以下原因。

First, the base effect versus the first quarter of 2023 has no major disruption is expected now that a (inaudible) seems to be cooling down. Recovery on public investment after the first year of the newly elected regional government. And lastly, more political stability, which should positively impact private investment.

首先，與 2023 年第一季相比，基數效應預計不會出現重大中斷，因為（聽不清楚）似乎正在降溫。新當選地方政府第一年後公共投資恢復。最後，政治更加穩定，這應該會對私人投資產生正面影響。

On slide 4, we wanted to point out your attention on the latest news on El Nino. After an inflection point in the probabilities of a strong to moderate Nino as of the end of 2023, we have started the year with very high probabilities for a known to weak Nino. This is very good news for the country as the economic recovery could speed up if no further disruption takes place in the coming months.

在投影片 4 上，我們想指出您對厄爾尼諾現象最新消息的關注。截至 2023 年底，在出現強到中度尼諾現象的機率出現拐點之後，我們以非常高的機率開始了今年，已知尼諾現象為弱尼諾現象。這對該國來說是一個非常好的消息，因為如果未來幾個月不再發生進一步的破壞，經濟復甦可能會加速。

On slide 5, we are providing the main operating trends for the year ending 2023, which are all within the latest guidance provided during September. First, we continue to register sound capital levels with core equity Tier 1 ratio closing the year at 11.8% and total capital ratio at 15.5%.

在投影片 5 上，我們提供了截至 2023 年的主要營運趨勢，這些趨勢均在 9 月提供的最新指導範圍內。首先，我們繼續保持良好的資本水平，年末核心一級資本比率為 11.8%，總資本比率為 15.5%。

There has been further moderation in the yearly total loan growth to 6% as of December and 7% in consumer loans, in a stabilization of NIM at 5.5%. We continue to see good efficiency levels, both at IFS and at the bank level as we are strictly monitoring and managing costs, especially at the bank, which has reached a cost income ratio around 37% as of year-end, a strong improvement versus last year, mainly due to the good operating leverage.

截至 12 月，年度總貸款成長率進一步放緩至 6%，消費貸款成長進一步放緩至 7%，淨利差穩定在 5.5%。我們繼續看到 IFS 和銀行層面的良好效率水平，因為我們嚴格監控和管理成本，特別是銀行，截至年底，成本收入比率已達到 37% 左右，比銀行層面有了很大改善。去年，主要得益於良好的經營槓桿。

Cost of risk continues to be high in consumer lending, pushing the bank year-end cost of risk to 4.3% in the lower range of the latest guidance. IFS ROE for the full year 2023 stands at 11.3%, impacted by cost of risk of Interbank, and soft investment results at Inteligo, slightly above the latest guidance.

消費貸款的風險成本持續居高不下，導致銀行年末風險成本降至最新指引下限的 4.3%。受銀行同業風險成本和 Inteligo 軟投資結果的影響，IFS 2023 年全年 ROE 為 11.3%，略高於最新指引。

Now let's move to the second section of the presentation, which focuses on profitable growth. On page 7, we see a continuous growth of customer base at IFS or 11% year over year in banking, 6% in insurance, 9% in wealth management, and 25% in payment merchants.

現在讓我們進入簡報的第二部分，重點討論獲利成長。在第 7 頁，我們看到 IFS 的客戶群持續成長，銀行業年增 11%，保險業年增 6%，財富管理業年增 9%，支付商戶年增 25%。

On slide 8, in line with the previously mentioned macro scenario in previous quarter, we have further moderated banking activity by tightening credit standards, which had an impact in credit and debit card purchases as well as in retail and SME loan disbursement.

在投影片 8 中，與前面提到的上季宏觀情景一致，我們透過收緊信貸標準進一步調節了銀行活動，這對信用卡和借記卡購買以及零售和中小企業貸款支付產生了影響。

Reduced activity in banking and increased cost of risk in the consumer portfolio have impacted the banking earnings and ROE. While investment returns impacted wealth management results. This quarter, though we have positive news in the insurance business, which posted solid investment results.

銀行業活動的減少和消費者投資組合風險成本的增加影響了銀行業的利潤和淨資產收益率。而投資報酬率則影響財富管理績效。本季度，我們在保險業務方面有積極的消息，該業務公佈了穩健的投資業績。

With this, IFS earnings are at PEN286 million and ROE at 11.6% for the fourth quarter driving the full year earnings to PEN1,080 million and ROE to 11.3% as shown in slides 9 and 10.

由此，IFS 第四季的收益為 2.86 億先令，淨資產收益率為 11.6%，推動全年收益達到 10.80 億先令，淨資產收益率為 11.3%，如幻燈片 9 和 10 所示。

On slides 11 and 12, good news in top line as total revenues continue to grow 4% in the quarter and 10% for the full year, thanks to the grow registering banking of 10%. Wealth Management growing more than eight times from a low base in 2022, insurance growing 1%, and by payments, 5%.

在投影片 11 和 12 中，最重要的是好消息，由於註冊銀行業務成長了 10%，本季總收入持續成長 4%，全年成長 10%。到 2022 年，財富管理將從低基數增加八倍以上，保險成長 1%，支付成長 5%。

On slides 13 and 14, we wanted to give you more details on the risk profile of the portfolio. First of all, we wanted to mention that 44% of Interbank's portfolio is focused on commercial banking, which continues to behave nicely, mainly due to our conservative approach, which has always focused on low risk clients and has had a small participation in small and micro clients.

在投影片 13 和 14 中，我們希望向您提供有關投資組合風險狀況的更多詳細資訊。首先，我們想提一下，Interbank 的投資組合中有44% 專注於商業銀行業務，該銀行業務繼續表現良好，這主要是由於我們採取保守的做法，始終專注於低風險客戶，並且很少參與小型和小型銀行業務。微客戶。

This conservative approach has allowed us to maintain a lower PDL versus our peers to balance our higher focus in the riskier consumer portfolio.

這種保守的方法使我們能夠保持與同業相比較低的 PDL，以平衡我們對風險較高的消費者投資組合的高度關注。

On the consumer portfolio, we have three different risks. First, the unsecured consumer portfolio, which is the one being impacted by the macro scenario, and which represents 22% of the total loan book. Second, mortgages, which are also 22% of the loan book. And third, payroll deductible loans to the public sector employees, a low risk segment which represents 12% of the total loan book.

在消費者投資組合上，我們面臨三種不同的風險。首先是無擔保消費者投資組合，這是受宏觀情勢影響的投資組合，佔貸款總額的 22%。其次是抵押貸款，這也是貸款帳面的22%。第三，向公部門員工發放薪資可扣除貸款，這是一個低風險部分，佔貸款總額的 12%。

This quarter, cost of risk of the bank remains high at 5.2% with retail cost of risk at 8.3%. Coverage ratio for the retail portfolio remains strong at 194% and above pre-COVID levels. Commercial banking, cost of risk has seen a slight increase with an improvement in coverage ratio.

本季度，銀行風險成本仍處於 5.2% 的高位，零售風險成本為 8.3%。零售投資組合的覆蓋率仍維持在 194% 的強勁水平，高於新冠疫情前的水平。商業銀行業務風險成本小幅上升，覆蓋率提高。

On slide 14, we are giving you an update of the reschedulings in the consumer loan book. During the last quarter of 2023, this reschedulings represent 20% of the unsecured consumer loans and have increased only PEN100 million.

在投影片 14 上，我們向您提供了消費者貸款簿中重新安排的最新資訊。在 2023 年最後一個季度，這種重新安排佔無擔保消費貸款的 20%，僅增加了 1 億先令。

Payment behavior for performing loans is different for customers with reschedulings. The unpaid portion for regular clients is only 2%. Well, it is around 14% for rescheduled clients for installments mature as of December.

對於重新安排的客戶，執行貸款的付款行為有所不同。一般客戶的未付費部分僅為 2%。嗯，對於 12 月到期的分期付款重新安排的客戶來說，這一比例約為 14%。

Finally, on this section on slide 15, we wanted to highlight the tight management of costs we continue to pursue, which shows a 5% decrease in total expenses at IFS for the fourth quarter of 2023 and 6% reduction at Interbank versus the previous year.

最後，在投影片 15 的這一部分中，我們想強調我們繼續追求的嚴格成本管理，這表明 2023 年第四季度 IFS 的總費用比上一年減少了 5%，Interbank 的總費用減少了 6% 。

With this, total expenses for the full year have only increased 2% at IFS, maintaining the efficiency ratio below 37% and has increased only 1% at Interbank, driving the cost income ratio down more than 300 basis points to 37.3%.

如此一來，IFS全年總費用僅成長2%，效率比率維持在37%以下；Interbank僅成長1%，帶動成本收入比下降300多個基點至37.3%。

Moving on to the digital performance section of the presentation. On slides 17 and 18, we are continuously building 100% digital solutions for our customer journey across our businesses. We have positive news in our digital indicators, which continue to show nice trends when compared to the previous year.

繼續演示的數位性能部分。在投影片 17 和 18 中，我們持續為整個業務的客戶旅程建立 100% 數位解決方案。我們的數字指標有正面的消息，與前一年相比，這些指標繼續顯示出良好的趨勢。

As of December '23, digital customers, which 75% of retail customers who interact with the bank during the last 30 days, up four points in the past year. Digital sales reached 63%, and our digital self-service indicator has improved sharply from 77% to 82%.

截至 23 年 12 月，數位客戶（佔過去 30 天內與銀行互動的零售客戶的 75%）比去年增加了 4 個百分點。數位化銷售達63%，數位化自助指標從77%大幅提升至82%。

NPS has seen a deterioration for the first time in many quarters, mainly impacted by the actions related to risk profiling. The insurance and wealth management digital indicators show positive developments as well, with digital self-service reaching 59% at Interseguro, [solid] sales reaching 82%, and digital premiums still small but reaching 10% at Interseguro, and digital transactions for fund management reaching 48% adding portfolios.

NPS 在多個季度以來首次出現惡化，主要受到風險分析相關行動的影響。保險和財富管理數位化指標也呈現出正面的發展，Interseguro的數位化自助服務達到了59%，[實體]銷售達到82%，Interseguro的數位化保費仍然很小，但達到了10%，基金管理的數位化交易增加投資組合的比例達 48%。

Now let's move to some more details on the performance of our four key businesses on slides 20 to 30. On slide 21, we have seen 10% year over year growth at the bank this quarter with net interest income growing 13%.

現在讓我們在投影片 20 至 30 上詳細了解四項關鍵業務的業績。在投影片 21 中，我們看到該銀行本季年增 10%，淨利息收入成長 13%。

-- Let me go back sorry. On slide 20, starting with banking and in line with our focused strategy, we continue increasing market shares reaching 15.1% in retail deposits, 9.6% in commercial loans, and retail loans at 19.1% as of December 2023.

——對不起，讓我回去吧。在投影片 20 上，從銀行業開始，根據我們的重點策略，截至 2023 年 12 月，我們繼續增加零售存款的市場份額達到 15.1%，商業貸款達到 9.6%，零售貸款達到 19.1%。

There are a couple of things that we will have been working hard in the past month and that our bringing nice results as shown in the market share increased to 14.7% in payroll inflows from 13.6% one year ago and the 17.7% market share in sales financing, up from 11.7% just 12 months ago.

在過去的一個月裡，我們在幾件事上一直在努力工作，我們帶來了不錯的成果，工資流入市場份額從一年前的13.6% 增加到14.7%，銷售市場份額從一年前的17.7% 增加到了14.7%。融資比例高於 12 個月前的 11.7%。

Now on slide 21, we have seen a 10% year over year growth of the bank this quarter with net interest income grown 13% coming mainly from increased volume and yield of loans, 2% growth in fee income and 4% in other income.

現在在投影片 21 上，我們看到該銀行本季同比增長 10%，淨利息收入增長 13%，主要來自貸款數量和收益率的增加，手續費收入增長 2%，其他收入增長 4%。

On slide 23, there has been a decreasing yield on loans of 30 basis points, reaching 11.3% and NIM decreased 10 basis points to 5.5%. Risk adjusted NIM decreasing the quarter in line with the increase in the cost of risk of consumer loans.

在投影片 23 上，貸款收益率下降了 30 個基點，達到 11.3%，淨利差下降 10 個基點，達到 5.5%。隨著消費貸款風險成本的增加，風險調整後的淨利差本季有所下降。

Good news this quarter is that cost of funds remained flat at 4.2% as shown in slide 24. As we start to see the first impact of a decrease in the soles rate. Cost of funds have been rising in the past at market level, mainly due for two reasons.

本季的好消息是資金成本維持在 4.2% 不變，如投影片 24 所示。當我們開始看到鞋底價格下降的第一個影響。過去市場層面的資金成本一直在上升，主要有兩個原因。

First, the continuous migration of retail deposits to more expensive term deposits, both in soles and in dollars and the higher remuneration to commercial and institutional mainly in dollars as rates have continued to increase.

首先，零售存款不斷轉向更昂貴的定期存款（無論是索爾還是美元），並且隨著利率持續上升，主要以美元為主的商業和機構存款的報酬更高。

Correction in overnight deposit rate in soles continues, though, at a slow pace. Our loan to deposit ratio of 103% is in line with the industry's average. Positive news is that the deposits continue to increase its share in total funding and that retail deposit market share has continued to increase.

不過，索爾隔夜存款利率的修正仍在緩慢進行中。我們的貸存比率為103%，符合同業平均。正面的消息是，存款佔總資金的比重持續增加，零售存款市佔率持續增加。

Now moving to insurance. Premiums were down 4% in the quarter, and market share of annuities was 26.4% as of November '23. Individual life and private annuities business lines continued to grow nicely quarter over quarter or 6% and 14%, respectively, increasing their contribution to total premiums.

現在轉向保險。截至 2023 年 11 月，本季保費下降 4%，年金市佔率為 26.4%。個人壽險和私人年金業務繼續保持季度環比良好增長，分別增長 6% 和 14%，增加了其對總保費的貢獻。

On slide 25, the quarterly turnover in the investments of the portfolio came extraordinarily high at 7.2% compared to the previous quarter, mainly due to some dividends received from a particular investments. The insurance portfolio is composed of 86% fixed income, 9% real estate, and 5% equity and mutual funds as of December '23.

在投影片 25 中，投資組合投資的季度營業額與上一季相比非常高，達到 7.2%，這主要是由於從特定投資中收到了一些股息。截至 23 年 12 月，保險投資組合由 86% 的固定收益、9% 的房地產以及 5% 的股票和共同基金組成。

Let me move now to wealth management. Good news in wealth management with the yearly growth in asset under management and 4% growth on a quarterly basis. This quarter, we saw a negative impact from investments results, but the core business continues growing.

現在讓我談談財富管理。財富管理領域利多消息，管理資產規模逐年成長，季增4%。本季度，我們看到了投資績效的負面影響，但核心業務持續成長。

On payments, we want to give you a summary of the developments of our payment ecosystem. Growth in merchants and volumes continues with some moderation. Izipay merchants increased 25% year over year, reaching 1.3 million, while transactional volumes grew 3%.

在支付方面，我們想向您總結一下我們支付生態系統的發展。商家和交易量持續成長，但略有放緩。Izipay 商家年增 25%，達到 130 萬，交易量成長 3%。

E-commerce transactions are growing at the same pace and represent 16% of our total transactional volumes as of the end of December. In the case of IzipayYA, our solution for micro merchants, growth in merchants was 35%, and was very strong in transactional volumes or 70%, all of which are linked to an Interbank account.

截至 12 月底，電子商務交易量以相同的速度成長，占我們總交易量的 16%。以我們針對微型商家的解決方案 IzipayYA 為例，商家成長了 35%，交易量非常強勁，達到 70%，所有這些都與銀行同業帳戶相關聯。

On slide 28, Izipay represents a growing and profitable operation and is working on creating synergies with Interbank. Revenues continued to grow 1% on a yearly basis and 13% in the quarter, supported by the increase in transactional volumes and merchants with some pressures on MDRs coming from increased competition.

在幻燈片 28 中，Izipay 代表著一家不斷成長且獲利的業務，並致力於與 Interbank 創造協同效應。在交易量增加和商家因競爭加劇而面臨 MDR 壓力的支撐下，營收持續年增 1%，本季成長 13%。

We have seen a moderation in the transactional volume this quarter in line with the decrease in economic activity as market share continues to increase reaching 57% in physical acquiring and almost 24% in virtual acquiring.

隨著經濟活動的減少，本季交易量放緩，實體收購的市佔率持續增加，達到 57%，虛擬收購的市佔率接近 24%。

EBITDA have seen a contraction in the quarterly figures due to margin compression in a more competitive landscape. We have been working to accelerate the growth of our payment ecosystem by having all of our assets work towards a common strategy.

由於競爭更加激烈，利潤率壓縮，EBITDA 季度數據出現收縮。我們一直致力於透過讓我們的所有資產朝著共同策略的方向努力，加速支付生態系統的發展。

We are focusing on increasing transactional volumes offering merchants additional services continue to pilot low risk loans to merchants and use Izipay as a distribution network for Interbank products as well as a source to increase float.

我們專注於增加交易量，為商家提供額外服務，繼續試行向商家提供低風險貸款，並使用 Izipay 作為銀行間產品的分銷網絡以及增加流動資金的來源。

We are starting to see results from this strategy, as evidenced by the following four key figures. 25% yearly increase in Izipay flow coming to Interbank accounts and 48% increase in average balances from merchants. 1.5 times yearly increase in transactional volumes from micro merchants, thanks to IzipayYA and more than 5,000 new credits disbursed in our test of the new lending model to merchants.

我們開始看到這項策略的成果，以下四個關鍵數字就證明了這一點。銀行間帳戶的 Izipay 流量每年增加 25%，商家的平均餘額每年增加 48%。由於 IzipayYA 以及我們在向商家測試新貸款模式時發放的 5,000 多個新積分，小微商家的交易量每年增長 1.5 倍。

On slide 29, Plin has been accelerated by the new landscape of interoperable P2P system. Plin reach more than 14 million users as of the end of December with Interbank participation at 46%. The volume of transactions has continued its strong growth reaching 2.4 times the volume registered the same quarter one year ago.

在投影片 29 上，可互通 P2P 系統的新格局加速了 Plin 的發展。截至 12 月底，Plin 的用戶數量已超過 1,400 萬，Interbank 參與度達 46%。交易量持續強勁成長，達到一年前同一季度的 2.4 倍。

Plin (inaudible) interoperability started in April and QR code interoperability was added in September. This has been an important development for financial inclusion in the country, which the Central Bank has encouraged and which should help to bring more Peruvians into the financial system, reducing the use of cash, which continues to be high in the country. Number of transactions have increased 3.3 times since interoperability started.

Plin（聽不清楚）互通性於 4 月開始，QR 碼互通性於 9 月添加。這是該國金融包容性的一個重要發展，受到中央銀行的鼓勵，這應該有助於讓更多的秘魯人進入金融體系，減少現金的使用，而現金的使用在該國仍然很高。自互通性開始以來，交易數量增加了 3.3 倍。

On slide 30, moving to our ESG update, we have reinforced our sustainability strategy. Our efforts in the last 12 months have allowed us to reach 61 points in the 2023 Corporate Sustainability Assessment with an improvement of 11 points on the environmental dimension.

在投影片 30 上，轉向我們的 ESG 更新，我們強化了我們的永續發展策略。經過過去 12 個月的努力，我們在 2023 年企業永續發展評估中取得了 61 分，其中環境維度提高了 11 分。

Moreover, we have been included in the Standard & Poor's Global Sustainability Yearbook 2024 based on our 2023 CSA score. On the social front, IzipayYA in our financial services education platform up in the mass are positively contributing to financial inclusion.

此外，根據 2023 年 CSA 得分，我們已被納入標準普爾 2024 年全球永續發展年鑑。在社會方面，IzipayYA 在我們的大眾金融服務教育平台上為金融包容性做出了積極貢獻。

On the environmental front, we are increasingly involved in green and sustainable financing by helping our customers grow their businesses in a sustainable way. Interbank has obtained a green certificate from [NL] that certifies the consumption of renewable energy in 2023, are the main headquarters, has signed a (technical difficulty) .

在環境方面，我們透過幫助客戶以永續的方式發展業務，越來越多地參與綠色和永續融資。Interbank已獲得[NL]頒發的綠色證書，證明2023年再生能源的消耗量，是主要總部，已簽署（技術難度）。

Now let me move to the final part of the presentation where we provide the guidance for 2024 and some takeaways. On slide 32, 2024 guidance goes as follows. First, capital ratios to remain at sound levels with total capital ratio above 14% and core equity Tier 1 ratio at around 11%.

現在讓我進入演示的最後部分，我們將提供 2024 年的指導和一些要點。在投影片 32，2024 年指引如下。一是資本適足率維持在良好水平，總資本適足率約14%以上，核心一級資本適足率約11%。

Second, a continued path to recovery towards our midterm target in corporate profitability with 2024 IFS ROE above 12%. In terms of loans growth for 2024, we expect mid-single digit growth in total loans. For 2024, we are focusing the NIM guidance on Interbank. We expect Interbank NIM to be stable and above 5.5%.

其次，持續復甦，實現企業獲利能力中期目標，2024 年 IFS 股本回報率高於 12%。就 2024 年貸款成長而言，我們預期貸款總額將出現中個位數成長。2024 年，我們將 NIM 指引的重點放在銀行同業拆借。我們預期銀行間淨利差將穩定在 5.5%以上。

Cost of risk is expected to remain high in 2024 above pre-COVID levels and reached a number below 4.3%, that's below 2023. It is important to remember that we included a moderate Nino phenomenon in our forward-looking variables during the second half of 2023.

預計 2024 年風險成本仍將高於新冠疫情前的水平，並達到 4.3% 以下，低於 2023 年。重要的是要記住，我們在 2023 年下半年的前瞻性變數中納入了溫和的尼諾現象。

And last, we will continue to focus on efficiency, especially on positive operating leverage. IFS efficiency ratio is expected to be around 37%, one of the best in the region.

最後，我們將繼續關注效率，特別是積極的營運槓桿。IFS 效率比預計約為 37%，是該地區最好的之一。

On slide 33, let me finalize the presentation with some key takeaways. First, after a weak 2023, macro sentiment for 2024 is relatively positive, with minor disruption expected from El Nino. Second, good performance in insurance business and positive investment results in wealth management.

在投影片 33 上，讓我以一些關鍵要點來結束簡報。首先，經歷了2023年的疲軟之後，2024年的宏觀情緒相對樂觀，預計厄爾尼諾現象會造成輕微幹擾。二是保險業務表現良好，財富管理投資成效良好。

Third, retail and more specifically consumer finance cost of risk remains high, but with strong coverage ratios. Four, tight management of costs reflected in solid efficiency levels. Cost of funds stabilizing and soles rates outlook, and we are strengthening our digital positioning and presence in payments.

第三，零售業，更具體地說，消費金融的風險成本仍然很高，但覆蓋率很高。四是嚴格的成本管理體現在紮實的效率水準。資金成本和唯一利率前景趨於穩定，我們正在加強我們在支付領域的數位定位和影響力。

Thank you very much. And now we welcome any questions you might have. Let me only just mention that we have recently been notified that IFS has been included again in the MSCI small-cap index.

非常感謝。現在我們歡迎您提出任何問題。我只想提一下，我們最近收到通知，IFS 已再次納入 MSCI 小型股指數。

Now we welcome any questions you might have.

現在我們歡迎您提出任何問題。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝。（操作員說明）

Ernesto Gabilondo, Bank of America.

埃內斯托·加比隆多，美國銀行。

Thank you. Hi. Good morning, Luis Felipe and Michela, and good morning to all your team and thanks for the opportunity to ask questions. I have three questions from my side. The first one is on your cost of risk guidance.

謝謝。你好。早安，路易斯費利佩和米凱拉，以及你們所有的團隊早安，感謝給我提問的機會。我這邊有三個問題。第一個是風險指導成本。

So, given that El Nino seems to have changed to a low non-impact, how should we think about it cost of risk in the first quarter of this year, you have a very strong reserve coverage ratio. So just wondering if there is a possibility that at some point in '24, we can have some reversal of provisions related to El Nino?

那麼，考慮到厄爾尼諾現像似乎已經變成了低無影響，我們應該如何看待今年第一季的風險成本，你有一個非常強的準備金覆蓋率。所以只是想知道是否有可能在 24 年的某個時候，我們可以逆轉與厄爾尼諾現象相關的規定？

And also, when do you expect the cost of risk to normalize to historical levels because the cost of risk for this year above 4.3% continues to be high your historical levels?

另外，由於今年 4.3% 以上的風險成本仍處於歷史高位，您預計風險成本何時會恢復到歷史水準？

Then my second question is on your NIM expectations, want to double check, if I'm correct. Can we expect NIM to behave between stable and a NIM expansion of 20 basis points this year? And also I would like to hear from you what should be the key drivers for NIM in this year.

那麼我的第二個問題是關於您對 NIM 的期望，想仔細檢查我的說法是否正確。我們能否預期今年的淨利差表現在穩定和淨利差擴張 20 個基點之間？我還想聽聽您的意見，今年 NIM 的主要驅動因素是什麼。

I don't know if it will be the recovering loan growth, probably more appetite on a consumer segment after leaving behind the impact in El Nino and also lower funding cost now that we are going into this [easing] cycle.

我不知道這是否會是貸款成長的恢復，在厄爾尼諾現象的影響過後，消費領域的興趣可能會更大，而且現在我們正在進入這個[寬鬆]週期，融資成本也會降低。

And my last question is on expenses. We have seen that IFS has been doing an important effort to maintain costs under control. So how should we think about OpEx growth this year, should be in line with inflation, a little bit above inflation? Just wanted to understand if you will continue to do investments in technology or disruptive initiatives and also wanted to break it down, how much of the OpEx will be related to that.

我的最後一個問題是關於費用的。我們看到，IFS 一直在努力控製成本。那麼我們該如何看待今年的營運支出成長，是否應該與通膨保持一致，略高於通膨？只是想了解您是否會繼續對技術或顛覆性計劃進行投資，並且還想將其分解，有多少營運支出將與之相關。

And also related to this question, I will also appreciate you can share with us in which part of the P&L, should we start to see the results or the benefits of all these new investments. Thank you.

也與這個問題相關，我也很感激您能與我們分享損益表的哪一部分，我們是否應該開始看到所有這些新投資的結果或好處。謝謝。

Okay, thank you very much, (inaudible) Let me give you a (inaudible) introduction to your answer and probably Michela will help us a little more detail. In terms of cost of risk guidance, El Nino actually what's going on is we don't expect to have strong rates, and that has certain infrastructural due to El Nino.

好的，非常感謝您，（聽不清楚）讓我（聽不清楚）介紹一下您的答案，也許 Michela 會幫助我們提供更多細節。就風險指導成本而言，厄爾尼諾現象實際上是我們預計利率不會強勁，而由於厄爾尼諾現象，這具有一定的基礎設施。

However, we are living through a Nino phenomenon, that's been the case for the whole -- most of 2023, and we expect it to continue. As you see in general, it is very high that you'll see a temperature that the oceans temperature is also high.

然而，我們正在經歷尼諾現象，整個 2023 年的大部分時間都是這種情況，我們預計這種現象將持續下去。正如您一般所看到的，您會看到溫度非常高，海洋溫度也很高。

So even though we don't have that strong disruption to investure, I missed the race that not expecting nothing strong new appeal. That something unethical digital tools out. El Nino (inaudible) mainly on the industries (inaudible) in Peru, that fishing like agriculture in certain ways.

因此，即使我們沒有對投資造成那麼大的干擾，我還是錯過了這場沒有期待任何強大的新吸引力的比賽。那是一些不道德的數位工具。厄爾尼諾現象（聽不清楚）主要針對秘魯的工業（聽不清楚），即漁業在某些方面類似農業。

So even though again, the rainfall will be more moderate or not very important. We will see some disruption there. So we have to be careful when we talk about El Nino. They haven't said that we do expect the second half to be better than the first half. And Michela will probably elaborate on that.

因此，即便如此，降雨量也會更加溫和或不太重要。我們會看到那裡出現一些混亂。所以我們在談論厄爾尼諾現象時必須小心。他們沒有說我們確實預計下半年會比上半年更好。米凱拉可能會詳細闡述這一點。

She also have some of the details, and in general (inaudible) she can do are some of the breaker that when we go out to management is that what we can control this costs now and we're very focused on that. And that basically will continue and it build in two basic premises, no?

她還提供了一些細節，總的來說（聽不清楚）她可以做的一些破壞性的事情是，當我們去管理層時，我們現在可以控制這些成本，我們非常關注這一點。這基本上會繼續下去，它建立在兩個基本前提之上，不是嗎？

(inaudible) in our operations, but the second premise is we continue investing in building our future. So we won't sacrifice the building of our (inaudible) for having this mindset of course, no? But do we run a very focused (inaudible) culture that actually that you see is giving good results in terms of operating leverage no?

（聽不清楚）我們的運營，但第二個前提是我們繼續投資建立我們的未來。所以我們當然不會因為擁有這種心態而犧牲我們的（聽不清楚）建設，不是嗎？但是，我們是否經營著一種非常專注（聽不清楚）的文化，實際上您認為在營運槓桿方面取得了良好的成果？

Having said that, let me pass on to Michela, which are one sure will give you a little bit more of detail for each of the subjects that you have raised. Thank you very much

話雖如此，讓我轉告米歇拉，她肯定會給您提供有關您提出的每個主題的更多細節。非常感謝

Hi Felipe. Hi Ernesto. Thank you for your questions. Let me go in order first with your question related to cost of risk. Okay. As you can see the guidance that we are providing is to below cost of risk of 2023.

嗨，費利佩。嗨埃內斯托。謝謝您的提問。讓我先按順序回答您與風險成本相關的問題。好的。正如您所看到的，我們提供的指導低於 2023 年的風險成本。

And if you see at the evolution of cost of risk during 2023, now it has been going up during the third quarter and to a minor extent during the fourth quarter. And why is that? And we have discussed in the previous conference call specifically the consumer lending portfolio, the unsecured portion is specifically related to the fact that with no GDP growth and sustained inflation, there has been a deterioration of the payment ability of Peruvian families.

如果你觀察 2023 年風險成本的演變，你會發現第三季風險成本一直在上升，第四季也有小幅上升。為什麼是這樣？我們在先前的電話會議中專門討論了消費貸款組合，無擔保部分具體與以下事實有關：在GDP沒有成長和持續通膨的情況下，秘魯家庭的支付能力惡化。

So now in the second half of 2023, we also included within the forward-looking variables of our provisions a moderate Nino, and at the time was something above PEN100 million. And for next year, what we are expecting is a first quarter, which is still high even with no Nino.

因此，現在到了 2023 年下半年，我們也在準備金的前瞻性變數中納入了一個適度的尼諾，當時的金額超過了 1 億先令。對於明年，我們預期的是第一季度，即使沒有尼諾，第一季仍然很高。

And this is because the picking up of all the reschedulings that we have been doing during 2023 now is maturing, has matured a portion of it in the third quarter, fourth quarter, but we will still see some of that during the first quarter of 2024.

這是因為我們在 2023 年期間所做的所有重新安排現在正在成熟，其中一部分在第三季、第四季已經成熟，但我們仍然會在 2024 年第一季看到其中的一些。

After that, we should expect and we are expecting a downward trends in the cost of risk and to the last question of the cost of risk part not related to when should we see historical levels. I think we will not go down to below 3% as it was a pre-COVID. And this is just because of the portfolio composition.

之後，我們應該預期風險成本會呈現下降趨勢，而風險成本的最後一個問題與我們何時應該看到歷史水準無關。我認為我們不會降至 3% 以下，因為這是新冠疫情之前的情況。這只是因為投資組合的構成。

Yes, we are expecting 2025 to be a level with much lower provisions than 2024, that I wouldn't expect that number to be below pre-COVID levels.

是的，我們預計 2025 年的準備金水準將比 2024 年低得多，但我預計該數字不會低於新冠疫情前的水準。

Now let me move to NIM expectations. We are providing a guidance of above 5.5% relatively stable NIM, and this is because there are opposing trends with NIM during 2024. There are some positive trends in that for sure, is related to cost of funds, specifically cost of funds in soles as rates have already started to go down.

現在讓我談談南洋的期望。我們提供相對穩定的淨利差 5.5% 以上的指導，這是因為 2024 年淨利差有相反的趨勢。當然，有一些正面的趨勢與資金成本有關，特別是鞋底的資金成本，因為利率已經開始下降。

But there are also some negatives related to yield of loans and this is coming specifically from higher percentage from commercial loans and lower percentage in the mix of consumer loans. Given that we have been decreasing the portfolio in the last months of 2023. And we expect that portfolio to continue shrinking for some months in 2024.

但也存在一些與貸款收益率相關的負面因素，這主要是由於商業貸款的比例較高，而消費貸款的比例較低。鑑於我們在 2023 年最後幾個月一直在減少投資組合。我們預計該投資組合將在 2024 年的幾個月內繼續萎縮。

Okay. So putting all of that together, this is why we are giving a stable NIM expectation for 2024.

好的。因此，將所有這些放在一起，這就是我們對 2024 年給出穩定的淨利差預期的原因。

The third part related to expenses. We are giving a guidance of a stable efficiency ratio at IFS already the efficiency ratio at IFS is particularly low at 37%. We are expecting expenses to grow mid-single digits, both at IFS in at the bank and specifically talking about the investments in OpEx related to digital and financial disruption.

第三部分涉及費用。我們正在為 IFS 提供穩定的效率比指導，但 IFS 的效率率特別低，為 37%。我們預期 IFS 和銀行的支出將成長中個位數，特別是與數位和金融顛覆相關的營運支出投資。

What I can tell you that, Ernesto is that the amount of investments that we do in technology and then it's very difficult to split between what is digital has reached the disruption and what is not, because at the end of the day, all the digital investments that we are doing related to data, the app and all our strategy, which is to become a digital bank.

埃內斯托，我可以告訴你的是，我們在技術上所做的投資量，然後很難區分數位化和非數位化，因為歸根結底，所有數位化我們正在進行的投資與數據、應用程式和我們所有的策略有關，即成為數位銀行。

That amount has I mean, has become like five times what it used to be five to seven years ago. Now it has remained at that level and will most likely continue to grow in the coming year. Now where in the P&L, can you see the positive or the benefits of all these digital strategy that we have been deploying, I think that it is in all of the lines of the P&L.

我的意思是，這個數字已經是五到七年前的五倍了。現在它一直保持在這個水平，並且很可能在來年繼續增長。現在，在損益表中，你能看到我們一直在部署的所有這些數位策略的積極或好處嗎？我認為它存在於損益表的所有方面。

Because if I start to think of all the things that we have done in digital, it has boost for short number of clients, but it has also boost digital sales. So there you can think about more income. It has boost not only volumes because we have increased the capability to do loans both in -- more in retail, but also in fees because we have been able to do much more things in a digital way fees, but also trading income.

因為如果我開始考慮我們在數位領域所做的所有事情，它會促進少數客戶的成長，但它也促進了數位銷售。所以你可以考慮更多的收入。它不僅增加了交易量，因為我們增加了零售貸款的能力，而且還增加了費用，因為我們能夠以數位方式做更多的事情，費用以及交易收入。

When we look at the penetration of products within the increased customer base, it has increased in most of the segments. So I would say that it is mostly related to a positive operating leverages. So more revenues coming from all the things that we are doing in digital.

當我們觀察產品在不斷增加的客戶群中的滲透率時，會發現大多數細分市場的滲透率都有增加。所以我想說，這主要與積極的經營槓桿有關。因此，更多的收入來自我們在數位領域所做的所有事情。

For sure, there is also an impact in marginal cost because all these new clients that we have brought to the bank, but also to Interseguro and Inteligo and merchants at Izipay, we would not have been able to do that without the digital strategy, because at the same time where we have increased five times the digital investments, we have reduced the physical presence more than 40%.

當然，邊際成本也會產生影響，因為我們為銀行、Interseguro 和 Inteligo 以及 Izipay 的商家帶來的所有這些新客戶，如果沒有數位策略，我們就無法做到這一點，因為在我們將數位投資增加五倍的同時，我們將實體存在減少了40% 以上。

So now when you put everything together, I think you cannot separate and analyze only what is the impact of some specific digital initiatives, but is the impact of the overall digital strategy that we are deploying at IFS.

因此，現在當你把所有東西放在一起時，我認為你不能只分離和分析某些特定數位計畫的影響，而是我們在 IFS 部署的整體數位策略的影響。

And maybe just to comment a little bit more specifically on the latest investment related to payments. There some of the things that we are monitoring very strongly and that we are pushing for is synergies with Interbank no?

也許只是對與支付相關的最新投資進行更具體的評論。我們正在非常密切地監控一些事情，我們正在推動與銀行間的協同效應，不是嗎？

So there the play is not only the fees that already Izipay brings, but also all the synergies that we are creating in working -- in making the ecosystem of Interbank stronger and attracting more inflows in float to Interbank accounts, no? And on top of that with IzipayYA, which is focused on the micro-merchants besides float and more inflows also the possibility to start adding some new services that will provide additional fees.

因此，發揮作用的不僅是Izipay 已經帶來的費用，還包括我們在工作中創造的所有協同效應——使銀行同業銀行的生態系統變得更強大，並吸引更多的浮動資金流入銀行同業銀行帳戶，不是嗎？最重要的是，IzipayYA 專注於除了浮動和更多資金流入之外的小商戶，也有可能開始添加一些提供額外費用的新服務。

So let me stop there, Ernesto to see whether I was able to answer the four questions.

埃內斯托，讓我到此為止，看看我是否能夠回答這四個問題。

Oh, yes, thank you very much, Michela and Luis Felipe. Just a last question in your ROE, you are guiding an ROE above 12% this year. But when should we think about your medium-term ROE? I think in the past you were saying that IFS sustainable ROEs around 18%.

哦，是的，非常感謝你們，米凱拉和路易斯費利佩。關於 ROE 的最後一個問題是，今年你們的 ROE 目標是 12% 以上。但我們什麼時候該考慮中期 ROE？我想您過去說過 IFS 的可持續 ROE 約為 18%。

So just wanted to hear from you, how are you seeing the ROE evolution in the next years? I understand this year will continue to be high in terms of cost of risk. But as you said, it could be normalizing to a cost of risk of 3% in the next years that could be a driver. So just wondering how should we think about the ROE evolution over the next couple of years.

所以只是想聽聽您的意見，您如何看待未來幾年 ROE 的演變？我知道今年的風險成本將繼續居高不下。但正如您所說，未來幾年風險成本可能會正常化至 3%，這可能會成為推動因素。所以只是想知道我們應該如何考慮未來幾年的 ROE 演變。

Sure. I think Ernesto thanks for your question. ROE should start normalizing after 2024. So I'm not presuming we get a handle of this according to our models [2025] we'll already be there, but we'll be targeting that 18% medium term, no?

當然。我想埃內斯托感謝你的問題。ROE 應該在 2024 年後開始正常化。因此，我並不認為根據我們的模型 [2025] 我們已經能夠解決這個問題，但我們的中期目標是 18%，不是嗎？

So hopefully, we'll be able to reach that. And it's all related to the performance of the economy. We have done our work in terms of changing the profile of our new customer acquisition in terms of our credit cards and consumer loans.

希望我們能夠實現這個目標。而這一切都與經濟表現有關。我們已經完成了改變信用卡和消費貸款新客戶獲取情況的工作。

However, it has to react accordingly to how the economy both in the future, no? So our base case is that 2025 we'll be returning to higher profitability levels. And obviously, we have to pay close attention to the investment results, and that will be subject to the evolution of the international capital markets.

然而，它必須對未來的經濟狀況做出相應的反應，不是嗎？因此，我們的基本預測是，到 2025 年，我們將恢復到更高的獲利水準。顯然，我們必須密切關注投資結果，這將受到國際資本市場演變的影響。

I don't know, Michela, if you want to complement something else.

我不知道，米凱拉，你是否還想補充一些其他的東西。

In fact, Ernesto, I mean, the cost of risk is not necessarily going down to 3%, it will go down to below 4%, but not necessarily 3.0%, it's somewhere between 3% and 3.5%. I don't know exactly. In 2025, I mean we could get back to the midterm ROE 2025.

事實上，Ernesto，我的意思是，風險成本不一定會下降到 3%，它會下降到 4% 以下，但不一定是 3.0%，它在 3% 到 3.5% 之間。我不太清楚。到 2025 年，我的意思是我們可以回到 2025 年中期 ROE。

Actually, the uncertainty there is if the bank goes back to this 17% to 18% ROE no, that would depend on the speed of the recovery of the Peruvian economy which directly impacts the consumer portfolio.

事實上，如果銀行回到17%至18%的ROE水平，存在不確定性，這將取決於秘魯經濟的復甦速度，直接影響消費者投資組合。

Okay. Thank you very much.

好的。非常感謝。

Your welcome.

別客氣。

(Operator Instructions) Nicolas Riva, Bank of America.

（操作員指令）Nicolas Riva，美國銀行。

Thanks very much, Michela and Luis Felipe for taking my question. Just have a question on your Tier 2 bonds, the ones issued at the Interbank level at the bank level. So the bank already announced that you guys are going to be calling the outstanding of the 2029 Tier 2 in March, just over $1 million, but you also have another Tier 2 bond that you can call next year.

非常感謝米歇拉和路易斯費利佩回答我的問題。只是有一個關於二級債券的問題，就是在銀行同業銀行層級發行的債券。因此，銀行已經宣布，你們將在 3 月贖回 2029 年二級債券的未償債券，金額剛剛超過 100 萬美元，但你們還有另一支二級債券可以在明年贖回。

The economics are quite different from the '29, a lower coupon, a lower reset. So if you can discuss what we should expect regarding the call option on the 2030 Tier 2 next year.

經濟狀況與 29 年有很大不同，優惠券更低，重置也更低。因此，您是否可以討論一下我們對明年 2030 年二級市場看漲期權的預期。

And then also earlier this year to finance the call on the 29th, you issued a 10 [non-call] five Tier 2 bond, and that's also like a legacy Tier 2 bond in the sense that there's no coupon deferral under (inaudible) [CT1] trigger for principal write-down.

然後今年早些時候，為了為29 日的贖回融資提供資金，您發行了10 張[非贖回]5 級2 級債券，這也類似於傳統的2 級債券，因為在（聽不清楚） [ CT1] 觸發本金減記。

My question is why does the bank regulator in Peru allow banks to issue these legacy Tier 2 bonds rather than [Basel] Tier 2? Thanks.

我的問題是，為什麼秘魯的銀行監理機構允許銀行發行這些傳統的二級債券而不是[巴塞爾]二級債券？謝謝。

Thanks, Nicolas. That's a perfect question to be answered by Michela. Go ahead please Michela.

謝謝，尼古拉斯。這是米凱拉回答的完美問題。請繼續，米凱拉。

Hi, Nicolas, and thank you for your question. Listen, first is related to the Tier 2 that will mature or when we call all during next year. It's something that we are expecting to renew for sure. Not we do need the additional $300 million are there for our total capital ratio.

你好，尼古拉斯，謝謝你的問題。聽著，首先與即將成熟的第二級有關，或者我們在明年打電話時。這是我們肯定會更新的東西。但我們確實需要額外的 3 億美元來滿足我們的總資本比率。

And us, why the superintendency allows banks to issue all style bonds. That I wouldn't know the exact why? But what I can tell you is that, you know, Peru has been for a long period of time in stage that we always describe Basel 2.5.

而我們，為什麼監理機構允許銀行發行各種類型的債券。我不知道確切的原因？但我可以告訴你的是，你知道，秘魯在很長一段時間內一直處於我們總是描述的巴塞爾2.5階段。

The latest regulation that was issued during last year brought us to Basel 2.95 to say in some way. And the only feature that has not been implemented is the one that you're asking. So everything else has been aligned to Basel 3 and that the Tier 2 bonds have remained with those characteristics, no?

去年發布的最新法規在某種程度上讓我們想到了巴塞爾2.95。唯一尚未實現的功能就是您所要求的功能。因此，其他一切都已與巴塞爾 3 保持一致，而二級債券也保留了這些特徵，不是嗎？

So basically, the one that we issued in January is an old style, which at the end is pretty liked by the investors and we are not sure really whether or not there is going to be additional regulation going forward. But if not, most likely the new that we will issue next year will also be in this way, unless there are news in the regulation.

所以基本上，我們在一月份發行的債券是一種老式的債券，最終很受投資者的歡迎，我們不確定未來是否會有額外的監管。但如果沒有的話，明年我們發的新版很可能也是這樣，除非監管上有消息。

Okay, understood. Michela, one follow-up on the Peru comment, when you said we need the $300 million Tier 2 capital from the 2030s we expect -- you mean in that sense, you mean that you expect to call that bond and to replace it with a new legacy Tier 2 issuance.

好的，明白了。米凱拉，秘魯評論的一個後續行動，當你說我們預計到2030 年代我們需要3 億美元的二級資本時——你的意思是從這個意義上說，你的意思是你希望調用該債券並將其替換為新的傳統二級發行。

I mean we will need to evaluate, of course, on the economics no, but which we will need to be in closer to the calling date of the bond.

我的意思是，我們當然需要對經濟進行評估，但我們需要在接近債券贖回日期的時候進行評估。

Okay. And just one last question on that. If you were not to call that bond, does it start losing capital treatment?

好的。還有最後一個問題。如果您不打算贖回該債券，它是否會開始失去資本待遇？

Yes, yes, yes, it does. 20% per year.

是的，是的，是的，確實如此。每年20%。

Okay. Thanks very much, Michela.

好的。非常感謝，米凱拉。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Carlos Gomez, HSBC.

卡洛斯‧戈麥斯，匯豐銀行。

Thank you very much for taking my call. And thank you, Michela, Luis Felipe. Hi, I joined late and I mean you may already have answered this. But can tell us your views about the level of indebtedness of the SMEs and the consumers in Peru?

非常感謝您接聽我的電話。謝謝米凱拉、路易斯費利佩。你好，我加入得很晚，我的意思是你可能已經回答了這個問題。但能否告訴我們您對秘魯中小企業和消費者負債水準的看法？

And what is a realistic outlook for credit growth, not only for this year, but for the coming two or three years. And second, during the COVID pandemic, you tried to make a push for SMEs through the [Reactiva] program. Where do you stand there and you have more ambitions to go in that segment? Thank you.

信貸成長的現實前景是什麼，不僅是今年，而且是未來兩三年。其次，在新冠疫情期間，你們試圖透過 [Reactiva] 計畫推動中小企業發展。您目前處於什麼位置，您在該領域有更多的雄心壯志嗎？謝謝。

Okay. Yeah, thank you, Carlos, for your question. The level of indebtedness entire -- let me take it back to you to answer your question in two forms. The first one, there's still lots of room in terms of increasing banalization in Peru on the debt side.

好的。是的，謝謝你，卡洛斯，你的問題。整個債務水平——讓我以兩種形式回答你的問題。第一個，秘魯在債務方面的日益平庸化方面仍有很大的空間。

Okay. So I think we're still at 40% in total loans over GDP and consumer loans is well below that. So the growth potential for the Peruvian system remains as strong as it has been in the last years. Obviously, we are undergoing a negative credit cycle right now given the economic conditions and the overall environment.

好的。所以我認為我們的貸款總額佔 GDP 的比例仍然是 40%，而消費貸款遠低於這個數字。因此，秘魯體系的成長潛力仍然與過去幾年一樣強勁。顯然，鑑於經濟狀況和整體環境，我們目前正在經歷負信貸週期。

But we know that will pass and that growth will return. Moving forward this coupled with a recovery of the economy, then growth will be even stronger. And the same happens for SMEs. I think one of the things in SMEs is the informality in Peru is at issue in order to be more aggressive

但我們知道這一切都會過去，成長將會回歸。展望未來，再加上經濟復甦，成長將會更加強勁。中小企業也是如此。我認為中小企業的問題之一是秘魯的非正式性是有問題的，以便更積極進取

And so we are working on our building digital capabilities and analytical capabilities to get to them. The portion we did during the pandemic working with Reactiva was very positive for us and allow us to learn very much on our plates in a segment that we are not very big.

因此，我們正在努力建立數位能力和分析能力來實現這些目標。我們在大流行期間與Reactiva合作所做的部分對我們來說非常積極，使我們能夠在規模不大的領域學到很多東西。

However, given current macro environment, we are not (inaudible) in terms of taking additional risk. We are very aggressive if you want in our regional portfolio. We don't need to be able to do that in our commercial portfolio that includes SME's work.

然而，考慮到當前的宏觀環境，我們不會（聽不清楚）承擔額外的風險。如果您想參與我們的區域投資組合，我們會非常積極。我們不需要在包括中小企業工作的商業投資組合中做到這一點。

We do so in 3% market share. We are building digital capabilities and analytical capabilities to serve that market. And we've learned a lot and we'll see what's working with them. However, until that cycle does not turnaround, we'll probably remain in our conservative approach towards SMEs.

我們以 3% 的市佔率做到了這一點。我們正在建立數位能力和分析能力來服務該市場。我們學到了很多東西，我們會看看他們的工作效果如何。然而，在這個週期沒有扭轉之前，我們可能會繼續對中小企業採取保守的態度。

The Izipay acquisition has put us very close to merchants, and that creates an avenue of growth for our customer segment that our company knows very well. And as Michela mentioned, we are always easier, easier.

收購 Izipay 使我們與商家的關係更加密切，這為我們公司非常了解的客戶群創造了一條成長途徑。正如米凱拉所說，我們總是變得越來越容易。

Also we have very good assets in strength of (inaudible) at that segment without disproportionately increasing this (inaudible) and I think that's it from my side. I don't know Michela if you want to complement something.

此外，我們在該領域擁有非常好的資產（聽不清楚），而沒有不成比例地增加這一點（聽不清楚），我認為這就是我的觀點。我不知道米凱拉是否想補充一些東西。

The only thing I would add is that, from all the new clients that we started working with during the Reactiva loans, in the small business segment, okay, we were not able to lend to many of them, I think is somewhere below 15%, the percentage of loans that we were able to renew without the guarantee of Reactiva.

我唯一要補充的是，從我們在 Reactiva 貸款期間開始合作的所有新客戶來看，在小型企業領域，好吧，我們無法向其中許多人提供貸款，我認為低於 15% ，我們在沒有Reactiva擔保的情況下能夠續簽的貸款百分比。

But what was really positive news from that was that the number of clients increased substantially in that segment and also the float with that segment deposits and together with those deposit fees coming from transfers and also trading income.

但真正積極的消息是，該細分市場的客戶數量大幅增加，該細分市場存款的浮動量以及來自轉帳和交易收入的存款費用也大幅增加。

So there was a side business coming from that segment with the Reactiva program. And when we move upwards to the mid-size company, there the impact was even higher. We were able to replace Reactiva loans there.

因此，Reactiva 計劃在該領域帶來了一項副業。當我們向上移動到中型公司時，影響甚至更大。我們能夠在那裡更換 Reactiva 貸款。

I think it was around 40% or something like that and also the collateral business, trading income, and fees first was very important enacting that together with some other things that we have been doing in the mid-corporate segment has allowed us to reach the number three position in the market as of year-end, we used to be number four. Now we are number three in the market.

我認為大約是 40% 左右，而且抵押品業務、交易收入和費用首先非常重要，再加上我們在中型企業領域所做的一些其他事情，使我們能夠達到截至年底，我們在市場上排名第三，而我們曾經排名第四。現在我們在市場上排名第三。

Thank you. Can you say your market share is given less than 3% or 13%?

謝謝。你能說你的市佔率低於3%或13%嗎？

No, in the small business is only 3%.

不，在小型企業中只有 3%。

In this model, but that is not SMEs right?

但這種模式不是中小企業吧？

(multiple speakers) Portion of both, a mid-corporates plus small business. Yes.

（多名發言者）兩者的一部分，即中型企業和小型企業。是的。

Okay. I think my other question was in terms of in actual numbers if Basel has a lot of potential for growth. How much will you expect your portfolio to grow again, not only '24, but also '25, '26.

好的。我認為我的另一個問題是巴塞爾是否有很大的成長潛力的實際數字。您期望您的投資組合再次成長多少，不僅是 24 年，還有 25 年、26 年。

In that specific segment, sorry or overall?

在那個特定的部分，抱歉還是整體？

Both.

兩個都。

Okay. No, I mean the guidance we are giving for total loan growth for next year is mid-single digit. Okay. Actually, we are expecting a little bit higher increase in loans in commercial banking and a little bit lower in retail banking because still the consumer portfolio will grow marginally, we believe.

好的。不，我的意思是我們對明年總貸款成長的指導是中個位數。好的。事實上，我們預期商業銀行貸款增幅會略高，零售銀行貸款增幅會略低，因為我們認為消費者投資組合仍將小幅成長。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

At least at this time, we'll take the webcast questions. I would now like to turn the call over to the InspIR Group. Please go ahead.

至少在這個時候，我們將接受網路廣播問題。我現在想將電話轉給 InspIR 集團。請繼續。

Thank you, operator. The first question comes from Daniel Mora of Creditcorp.

謝謝你，接線生。第一個問題來自 Creditcorp 的 Daniel Mora。

In 2024, can we expect the stable NIM given that with increases in rates, it remained stable at 5.5%?

2024年，隨著利率的上升，淨利差仍穩定在5.5%，我們能否預期其維持穩定？

Let me that. Daniel, thank you for your question. I guess we commented that before. Yes, we are providing guidance for a stable NIM, which is the result of decreasing cost of funds from the cuts in soles rate, but also some pressure in the yield on loans due to the portfolio mix in its evolution.

讓我來吧。丹尼爾，謝謝你的問題。我想我們之前評論過這一點。是的，我們正在為穩定的淨利差提供指導，這是由於單一利率下調導致資金成本下降的結果，但由於投資組合組合的演變，貸款收益率也面臨一些壓力。

Thank you. And as a follow-up to that, when do you expect to reach the peak in provisions and the peak in non-performing loans?

謝謝。作為後續行動，您預計準備金和不良貸款何時達到高峰？

Peaking provisions, I mean, we believe the high quarters have been already the third and fourth quarter, but the first quarter 2024 is still going to be a high cost of risk for the consumer portfolio. After that, we expect a cost of risk to start to go down and eventually normalize in the coming quarters.

我的意思是，我們認為撥備高峰已經是第三季和第四季度，但 2024 年第一季對於消費者投資組合來說仍將是一個較高的風險成本。此後，我們預計風險成本將開始下降，並最終在未來幾季恢復正常。

The next question comes from Nancy Lopez (inaudible)

下一個問題來自南希·洛佩茲（聽不清楚）

What was the main trigger of a change on retail loans to a more expensive maintenance months?

零售貸款改為更昂貴的維修月份的主要原因是什麼？

Can you read it again sorry?

抱歉，你能再讀一遍嗎？

What was the main trigger on retail loans to more expensive maintenance ones?

零售貸款向更昂貴的維護貸款的主要觸發因素是什麼？

To more expensive maintenance ones. Is that the question?

到更昂貴的維護。這是問題嗎？

Yes.

是的。

I mean, maybe if I can comment that on the portfolio mix. What has been happening in the past two quarters is that consumer loans, the unsecured portion has been decreasing because of the risk profile. That is the main reason why. While we have seen a continuous growth in mortgages, in payroll deductible loans to the public sector employees, and also in a commercial banking.

我的意思是，也許我可以對投資組合進行評論。過去兩個季度發生的情況是，由於風險狀況，消費貸款（無擔保部分）一直在減少。這就是主要原因。雖然我們看到抵押貸款、公共部門員工的薪資可扣除貸款以及商業銀行業務持續成長。

Our next question comes from Daniel Merida, [PUCP]

我們的下一個問題來自丹尼爾·梅里達，[聚氯乙烯]

Good Morning, thanks for the presentation, can you please give an update about your buyback program?

早安，感謝您的介紹，您能介紹一下您的回購計畫的最新情況嗎？

Sure.

當然。

The buyback program was put in a hold a few months ago, actually, after the latest update that we gave during, I think it was three quarters ago. We have not pursue any additional purchases in any (inaudible) kind of wait and see position given that we are now focusing more on maintaining capital levels, given the macro outlook that changed not dramatically during the last half 2023.

回購計劃在幾個月前被擱置，實際上，在我們提供最新更新之後，我認為那是三個季度前。鑑於 2023 年下半年宏觀前景沒有顯著變化，我們現在更注重維持資本水平，因此我們不會採取任何（聽不清楚）觀望立場進行任何額外購買。

Our next question comes from Ernesto Gabilondo of Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的埃內斯托·加比隆多。

How should we think about the dividend payout ratio this year?

我們該如何看待今年的股利支付率？

Hi Ernesto, I think you can hear me answer now. I have problem with my microphone. It's basically our policy, you have to take into account 45% of the [bank] add like 50% of the insurance company and a bit of the (inaudible) results are not very high.

嗨，埃內斯托，我想你現在可以聽到我的回答了。我的麥克風有問題。這基本上是我們的政策，你必須考慮 45% 的 [銀行] 添加，例如 50% 的保險公司，並且一些（聽不清楚）結果不是很高。

We take some cash into the operating company to -- sorry to the holding company in order to cover expenses and debt service. So it should be I think we're announcing pretty soon. So you can work through the numbers.

我們將一些現金存入營運公司，以支付費用和償債，向控股公司表示歉意。所以我想我們應該很快就會宣布。這樣你就可以計算出這些數字。

I don't know if we can say at this number right now, we still have to go through the process of IFS Board and shareholders meeting to approve of it. But that's the way we build up our dividends and it's based remember on local (inaudible) So our numbers went -- we urge you to actually mention it, but it's probably we'll have the details (inaudible)

我不知道現在這個數字是否可以說，我們還需要經過IFS董事會和股東大會的批准程序。但這就是我們建立股息的方式，它是基於記住當地（聽不清楚）所以我們的數字 - 我們敦促您實際提及它，但我們可能會了解詳細信息（聽不清楚）

At this time, there are no further questions. I'd like to turn the call over to the operator.

目前，沒有其他問題了。我想將電話轉給接線生。

Thank you. There appear to be no further questions at this time as well on the audio side. I would like to turn the floor back over to Ms. Casassa for any closing remarks. Please go ahead.

謝謝。目前似乎在音訊方面也沒有進一步的問題。我想請卡薩薩女士發表結束語。請繼續。

Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody again for attending our call and for the questions. And we'll see each other again for our first quarter results. Thanks, again, bye.

好的。非常感謝。再次感謝大家參加我們的電話會議並提出問題。我們將在第一季業績中再次見面。再次感謝，再見。

This concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。