Icahn Enterprises LP (IEP) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to Icahn Enterprise LP Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Call with Andrew Teno, President and CEO and Ted Papapostolou, Chief Financial Officer; and Robert Flint, Chief Accounting Officer.

早安，歡迎與總裁兼執行長 Andrew Teno 和財務長 Ted Papapostolou 一起參加 Icahn Enterprise LP 2024 年第三季財報電話會議；和首席會計官羅伯特·弗林特。

I would now like to hand the call over to Robert Flint, who will read the opening statement.

我現在想將電話轉交給羅伯特·弗林特，他將宣讀開場陳詞。

Thank you, operator.

謝謝你，接線生。

The Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 provides a safe harbor for forward-looking statements we make in this presentation, including statements regarding our future performance and plans for our businesses and potential acquisitions.

1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》為我們在本簡報中所做的前瞻性陳述提供了一個安全港，包括有關我們未來業績以及我們的業務和潛在收購計劃的陳述。

Forward-looking statements may be identified by words such as expects, anticipates, intends, plans, believes, seeks, estimates, will or words of similar meaning and include, but are not limited to, statements about the expected future business and financial performance of Icahn Enterprises LP and its subsidiaries.

前瞻性陳述可以透過預期、預期、打算、計劃、相信、尋求、估計、意願或類似含義的詞語來識別，包括但不限於有關預期未來業務和財務業績的陳述。公司。

Actual events, results and outcomes may differ materially from our expectations due to a variety of known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that are discussed in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including economic, competitive, legal and other factors.

由於各種已知和未知的風險、不確定性以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中討論的其他因素，包括經濟、競爭、法律和其他因素，實際事件、結果和成果可能與我們的預期存在重大差異。

Accordingly, there is no assurance that our expectations will be realized.

因此，無法保證我們的期望會實現。

We assume no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements should circumstances change, except as otherwise required by law.

如果情況發生變化，我們不承擔更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務，除非法律另有要求。

This presentation also includes certain non-GAAP financial measures, including adjusted EBITDA.

本簡報也包括某些非公認會計準則財務指標，包括調整後的 EBITDA。

A reconciliation of such non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found in the back of this presentation.

此類非 GAAP 財務指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 財務指標的調整表可在本簡報的後面找到。

We also present indicative net asset value.

我們也提供了指示性淨值。

Indicative net asset value includes, among other things, changes in the fair value of certain subsidiaries, which are not included in our GAAP earnings.

指示性淨資產值包括某些子公司公允價值的變動等，這些變動不包括在我們公認的會計原則收益中。

All net income and EBITDA amounts we will discuss are attributable to Icahn Enterprises unless otherwise specified.

除非另有說明，我們將討論的所有淨利潤和 EBITDA 金額均歸屬於伊坎企業。

I'll now turn it over to Andrew Teno, our Chief Executive Officer.

現在我將把它交給我們的執行長安德魯·特諾 (Andrew Teno)。

Thank you, Rob, and good morning, everyone.

謝謝你，羅布，大家早安。

NAV decreased $423 million from the second quarter of 2024.

資產淨值較 2024 年第二季減少 4.23 億美元。

Positive returns in the investment fund were more than offset by declines in CVR Energy, disappointing performance from auto service and the impact of the quarter's distribution to unitholders.

投資基金的正回報被 CVR Energy 的下跌、汽車服務令人失望的業績以及本季向單位持有人分配的影響所抵消。

So first, the good news.

首先是好消息。

The investment funds were up approximately 8% for the quarter.

該季度投資基金上漲約 8%。

We generated positive returns from our single name longs, led by our healthcare investments and our refining hedges and generated significant interest income.

在醫療保健投資和煉油對沖的帶動下，我們從單一名稱多頭中獲得了正回報，並產生了可觀的利息收入。

Our losses were predominantly caused by our broad market hedges, and we avoided any big single name losses.

我們的損失主要是由我們廣泛的市場對沖造成的，我們避免了任何重大的單一名稱損失。

Moving on to the not so good.

繼續不太好的事情。

Our CVR investment was down during the quarter as cracks returned to levels that are either mid-cycle to below mid-cycle levels, further compounded by uncontrollable external power outages.

我們的 CVR 投資在本季度有所下降，因為裂縫恢復到週期中期或週期中期以下的水​​平，而無法控制的外部停電進一步加劇了這種情況。

In regards to our Automotive Services division, it has unfortunately continued to struggle.

不幸的是，我們的汽車服務部門仍在苦苦掙扎。

The quarter suffered from lower-than-expected revenue driven by staffing and inventory management decisions.

由於人員配置和庫存管理決策，該季度的收入低於預期。

We have already replaced several top members of management at Pep Boys and can already see a return to better performance.

我們已經更換了 Pep Boys 的幾名高階管理人員，並且已經可以看到其恢復到更好的績效。

Though we see green shoots, it will be a while until our Auto Service division will hit its potential.

儘管我們看到了萌芽，但我們的汽車服務部門要發揮其潛力還需要一段時間。

I continue to believe that over a multiyear time period, there is no reason that EBITDA margins shouldn't be in the high single digits, if not double digits versus the low single digits today.

我仍然相信，在多年的時間裡，沒有理由 EBITDA 利潤率不應該保持在高個位數，甚至是兩位數，而不是今天的低個位數。

We ended the quarter with $1.6 billion of cash and cash equivalents at the holding company and an additional $800 million of cash at the funds.

本季結束時，我們在控股公司擁有 16 億美元的現金和現金等價物，在基金中還有 8 億美元的現金。

So as Carl likes to say, we have a significant war chest to take advantage of opportunities as they arise.

正如卡爾喜歡說的那樣，我們有大量的資金來利用出現的機會。

As many people on this call likely know, subsequent to the quarter end, the refining market continued to soften, which led CVR to pause its dividend.

正如本次電話會議上的許多人可能知道的那樣，季度末之後，煉油市場繼續疲軟，導致 CVR 暫停派發股息。

Since the inception of our CVR investment in 2012 IEP has received dividends totaling over $3 billion.

自 2012 年開始進行 CVR 投資以來，IEP 已獲得總額超過 30 億美元的股息。

We believe that sooner or later, and unfortunately, we don't know when, the cycle will swing again and CVR will return to generating significant cash flow.

我們相信，不幸的是，我們不知道什麼時候，週期會再次擺動，CVR 將恢復產生大量現金流。

It is this belief that has led us to announce the proposed tender offer to buy additional CVR shares.

正是這種信念促使我們宣布了購買額外 CVR 股票的擬議要約收購。

Given the recently launched tender for CVR, additional investment opportunities both in our portfolio and in the market and a desire to maintain our cash war chest, the Board has reduced the quarterly distribution from $1 per depositary unit to $0.50. We know that some unitholders may be disappointed by the decision, but as Carl mentioned in our press release, we hope and believe that the actions we take today and in the near term will lead to increased capital returns to our unitholders in the future.

鑑於最近啟動的 CVR 招標、我們的投資組合和市場上的額外投資機會以及維持我們現金儲備的願望，董事會已將季度分配從每個存託單位 1 美元減少到 0.50 美元。我們知道一些單位持有者可能會對這一決定感到失望，但正如卡爾在我們的新聞稿中提到的那樣，我們希望並相信我們今天和短期內採取的行動將在未來為我們的單位持有人帶來更高的資本回報。

Now turning to our Investment segment.

現在轉向我們的投資部分。

In terms of our top five disclosed names, we see considerable value creation potential.

就我們揭露的前五個名稱而言，我們看到了巨大的價值創造潛力。

At SWX, we see a gas utility that is closing its ROE gap to peers and separating the utility services business with significant growth opportunity.

在 SWX，我們看到一家天然氣公用事業公司正在縮小其與同行的股本回報率差距，並將公用事業服務業務分拆為具有重大成長機會的公司。

We see upside in both the gas utility and the service business.

我們看到天然氣公用事業和服務業務都有上升空間。

At AEP, we see new management closing its ROE gap, improving regulatory outcomes and benefiting from tremendous growth in electricity demand due to AI-driven data center demand.

在 AEP，我們看到新的管理層縮小了 ROE 差距，改善了監管結果，並受益於人工智慧驅動的資料中心需求帶來的電力需求的巨大增長。

IFF is a high-quality ingredients company that should see improving organic revenue growth and increasing margins from new management.

IFF 是一家高品質原料公司，新管理層應該會看到有機收入成長的改善和利潤率的增加。

IFF trades at a significant discount to its peers on EV/EBITDA.

IFF 的 EV/EBITDA 交易價格比同業大幅折扣。

At Caesars, Carl has significant respect for Tom Reeg and what he has accomplished so far at Caesars.

在凱撒，卡爾非常尊重湯姆·雷格以及他迄今為止在凱撒所取得的成就。

We believe we are buying a great business with tremendous asset value and a great management team that is actively buying back shares and with a growing digital business at a free cash flow yield greater than 15%.

我們相信，我們正在購買一家擁有巨大資產價值的偉大企業，以及一支積極回購股票的優秀管理團隊，並且其數位業務不斷增長，自由現金流收益率超過 15%。

At Bausch, we see considerable value both at BHC and BLCO.

在 Bausch，我們看到了 BHC 和 BLCO 的巨大價值。

The fund ended the quarter approximately 2% net short.

該基金本季末淨空頭約 2%。

Adjusting for our refining hedges, the fund was 24% net long.

調整我們的煉油對沖後，該基金的淨多頭部位為 24%。

And now I will pass it on to Ted to cover our controlled businesses.

現在我將把它交給特德來負責我們控制的業務。

Thank you, Andrew.

謝謝你，安德魯。

I will begin with our Energy segment.

我將從我們的能源部分開始。

Energy segment EBITDA was negative $38 million for Q3 '24 compared to $347 million in Q3 '23.

24 年第三季能源部門 EBITDA 為負 3,800 萬美元，而 23 年第三季為 3.47 億美元。

The quarter's performance was impacted by unplanned downtime caused by external power outages, resulting in lower volumes and margins.

本季的業績受到外部停電造成的非計劃性停機的影響，導致銷售和利潤率下降。

Q3 '24 refining margin per throughput barrel was $2.53 compared to $31.05 in the prior year quarter.

24 年第三季每桶煉油利潤為 2.53 美元，去年同期為 31.05 美元。

This decrease was primarily driven by a decrease in crack spreads, unfavorable impact of the mark-to-market on the outstanding RFS obligation and unfavorable inventory valuation impact.

這一下降主要是由於裂解價差的下降、以市價計價對未償 RFS 義務的不利影響以及不利的庫存估值影響。

Q3 '24 average realized gate prices for UAN increased by 3% to $229 per ton and ammonia increased by 9% to $399 per ton when compared to the prior year quarter.

與去年同期相比，24 年第三季 UAN 平均實現門站價格上漲 3%，至每噸 229 美元，氨水上漲 9%，至每噸 399 美元。

Now turning to our Auto segment.

現在轉向我們的汽車部分。

Q3 '24 net sales and other revenues decreased by $70 million compared to the prior year quarter.

24 年第三季淨銷售額和其他收入與去年同期相比減少了 7,000 萬美元。

Automotive Services revenues decreased by $51 million due to operational challenges such as insufficient tire inventory and staffing levels at certain locations and reduced consumer spending on automotive repairs and maintenance.

由於營運挑戰（例如某些地點的輪胎庫存和人員配備不足以及消費者在汽車維修和保養方面的支出減少），汽車服務收入減少了 5,100 萬美元。

We have swiftly taken actions to address the operational challenges including a change in management, and we have already seen signs of improvement.

我們迅速採取行動應對營運挑戰，包括管理層變更，並且已經看到了改善的跡象。

Aftermarket Parts revenues decreased by $20 million due to the winding down of the business, which is expected to be complete by the end of this year.

由於該業務預計將於今年底完成，售後零件收入減少了 2,000 萬美元。

Now turning to our other segments.

現在轉向我們的其他部分。

Real Estate's Q3 '24 adjusted EBITDA decreased by $10 million compared to the prior year quarter, driven by the sale of an investment property during Q3 '23, which accounted for $6 million.

房地產業的 24 年第三季調整後 EBITDA 與去年同期相比減少了 1,000 萬美元，這是由於 23 年第三季出售投資房產（佔 600 萬美元）所致。

The remaining decrease is mainly due to reduced sales on single-family homes.

剩餘的下降主要是由於單戶住宅銷售的減少。

The segment owns a desirable 45-acre site in Nashville, Tennessee, which is located close to the planned NFL stadium in the emerging East River district.

該部門在田納西州納許維爾擁有一塊理想的 45 英畝場地，靠近新興東河區規劃的 NFL 體育場。

We are exploring the sale of this land and if successful, we believe to have proceeds which far exceed the current book value.

我們正在探索出售這塊土地，如果成功，我們相信收益將遠遠超過目前的帳面價值。

Food Packaging adjusted EBITDA decreased by $6 million for Q3 '24 as compared to the prior year quarter.

與去年同期相比，24 年第三季食品包裝調整後 EBITDA 減少了 600 萬美元。

Volumes have increased, however, a shift in product mix and lower pricing led to a reduction in net sales.

然而，銷售量有所增加，但產品結構的變化和定價下降導致淨銷售額下降。

While there are opportunities to improve efficiency at the plants, we do not expect a meaningful impact until we execute a capital plan to modernize equipment and reduce the overall cost structure.

雖然工廠有機會提高效率，但在執行設備現代化和降低整體成本結構的資本計劃之前，我們預計不會產生有意義的影響。

Home Fashion’s adjusted EBITDA decreased by $1 million as compared to the prior year quarter, mainly driven by lower demand from our international business and our e-com business, offset in part by a strong US hospitality market.

Home Fashion 調整後的 EBITDA 與去年同期相比減少了 100 萬美元，主要是由於我們的國際業務和電子商務業務的需求下降，但強勁的美國酒店市場在一定程度上抵消了這一影響。

Pharma segment's adjusted EBITDA for Q3 '24 improved by $2 million as compared to the prior year quarter, mainly due to higher prescription growth.

製藥部門 24 年第 3 季的調整後 EBITDA 比去年同期增加了 200 萬美元，主要是由於處方藥成長加速。

Recently, one of our developmental therapies cleared a significant milestone and we're working with the management team to assess the next phase, which has the potential for meaningful returns.

最近，我們的一種開發療法實現了一個重要的里程碑，我們正在與管理團隊合作評估下一階段，該階段有可能帶來有意義的回報。

Now to our liquidity.

現在我們的流動性。

We maintain liquidity at the holding company and at each of our operating subsidiaries to take advantage of attractive opportunities.

我們保持控股公司和每個營運子公司的流動性，以利用有吸引力的機會。

As of quarter end, the holding company had cash and investment in the funds of $4.3 billion and our subsidiaries had cash and revolver availability of $1.1 billion.

截至季末，控股公司擁有 43 億美元的現金和基金投資，我們的子公司擁有 11 億美元的現金和循環資金。

In summary, we continue to focus on building asset value and maintaining liquidity to enable us to capitalize on opportunities within and outside our existing operating segments.

總而言之，我們繼續專注於建立資產價值和維持流動性，以使我們能夠利用現有營運部門內外的機會。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Operator, can you please open up the call for questions.

接線員，可以撥打電話詢問問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Dan Fannon, Jefferies.

丹‧範農，傑弗里斯。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Good morning.

早安.

Just to want to talk about the dividend liquidity and obviously, the CVR discussion.

只是想談談股息流動性，當然還有 CVR 的討論。

So just how at the IEP level, are you looking to manage the overall liquidity to kind of come up with the dividend level versus maintaining the flexibilities you talked about for new investments as well as obviously running the business.

那麼，在 IEP 層面上，您是否希望管理整體流動性以達到股息水平，而不是保持您談到的新投資以及顯然經營業務的靈活性。

So just what is the kind of optimal level of liquidity you're looking to run with and/or leverage as you think about it at the company.

那麼，當您在公司考慮時，您希望使用和/或槓桿運行的最佳流動性水平是多少。

Hey Dan, good morning.

嘿丹，早安。

Dan.

擔。

So first off, I'd just say we have a significant war chest of liquidity.

首先，我只想說我們擁有大量的流動資金。

If you look at IEP, we have, call it, $1.5 billion to $1.6 billion of cash at the holding company.

如果你看看 IEP，我們在控股公司擁有 15 億至 16 億美元的現金。

We have $800 million of cash or so at the hedge funds.

我們在對沖基金裡有大約 8 億美元的現金。

And so we retain significant liquidity wherever we want to make investments.

因此，無論我們想在哪裡進行投資，我們都會保留大量的流動性。

Now when we think about the CVI tender decision, look, we think it's just an attractive investment.

現在，當我們考慮 CVI 招標決定時，我們認為這只是一項有吸引力的投資。

We've generated significant cash over time, something like $3 billion in dividends.

隨著時間的推移，我們已經產生了大量現金，大約 30 億美元的股息。

And we think at some point, the crack cycle will swing and then we'll go back to making significant cash.

我們認為，在某個時候，破解週期將會發生變化，然後我們將重新開始賺取大量現金。

Unfortunately, we can't really promise you when that will happen, but we think the decisions we made today will actually help cash flow in the future.

不幸的是，我們無法真正向您保證這種情況何時會發生，但我們認為我們今天做出的決定實際上將有助於未來的現金流。

I'd also point out, not only do we have the $1.6 billion of cash at the holding company, the $800 million of the funds, but we're always looking at our assets.

我還想指出的是，我們不僅在控股公司擁有 16 億美元的現金、8 億美元的基金，而且我們一直在關注我們的資產。

And so Ted mentioned a little bit in his comments, and he said, we have, call it, some acres that's in Nashville.

特德在他的評論中提到了一點，他說，我們在納許維爾有一些英畝的土地。

So a while back, we owned a segment called PSC Metals, we sold the business.

不久前，我們擁有一個名為 PSC Metals 的部門，但我們出售了這項業務。

We retained the land.

我們保留了土地。

It was a very good decision.

這是一個非常好的決定。

And you have an asset on our books today for, call it, something like $25 million.

今天我們的帳簿上有一項資產，稱之為 2500 萬美元左右。

And there have been press reports out there that said we're exploring a sale and some people think it could go for north of 10x that, right?

有媒體報告說我們正在探索出售，有些人認為價格可能會高出 10 倍，對嗎？

So between the cash, between the undervalued assets that we have in our portfolio, and look it’s our job to prove that out, that we think we'll have plenty of liquidity to come.

因此，在現金和我們投資組合中被低估的資產之間，我們的工作就是證明這一點，我們認為我們將擁有充足的流動性。

Understood.

明白了。

And then just on the auto business, you mentioned kind of another round of restructuring.

然後就汽車業務而言，您提到了另一輪重組。

So did that actually happen in the third quarter, is that subsequent to the fourth quarter, where you talked about some of the management changes and seeing improvements?

那麼，這真的發生在第三季度嗎？

Or is that something that -- and also just how quickly do you think we can see some of those changes actually come through?

或者您認為我們能多快看到其中一些變化真正發生？

.

。

Yes.

是的。

So a lot of the changes happened right around quarter end, and the individual who's now running the organization, we've seen significant changes already.

因此，許多變化發生在季度末左右，對於現在運營該組織的個人來說，我們已經看到了重大變化。

So the trends in the quarter, as you went through the quarter, it got worse and worse.

因此，隨著整個季度的發展，本季的趨勢變得越來越糟。

And as soon as we made a change, we've seen kind of the trends improve now.

一旦我們做出改變，我們就看到趨勢有所改善。

Look, it's not -- we're not seeing what we should be, right?

聽著，我們沒有看到我們應該成為的樣子，對吧？

What we should be seeing eventually is same-store sales growth.

我們最終應該看到的是同店銷售額的成長。

We should be seeing margin improvement.

我們應該會看到利潤率有所改善。

We're not seeing that, but we are seeing quite a significant reversal, right?

我們沒有看到這一點，但我們看到了相當重大的逆轉，對吧？

So I think there were times we were seeing revenue minus 20% year-over-year, and that's declined.

因此，我認為有時我們會看到收入比去年同期下降 20%，而且這一數字已經下降。

Now we're seeing some high single digits.

現在我們看到一些高個位數。

So we're already seeing an improvement.

所以我們已經看到了改進。

And I'd say, look, some of the -- obviously, the business didn't do well in the quarter, but there were good ideas that were -- some of the initiatives that are being worked on were good ideas.

我想說，看，有些——顯然，該季度的業務表現不佳，但有一些好主意——一些正在實施的舉措是好主意。

They were just poorly executed, right?

他們只是執行得不好，對吧？

So it is a good idea to run an RFP to purchase tires cheaper so we can make more money when we sell them to our customers.

因此，透過招標來購買更便宜的輪胎是個好主意，這樣我們在將輪胎出售給客戶時就可以賺更多的錢。

It's a bad idea to run out of inventory so that when your customers show up, there's nothing to sell them when we say, "Hey, it's going to be a week” when they can just go across the street and it's going to take them a day.

庫存耗盡是個壞主意，這樣當你的客戶出現時，當我們說「嘿，這將是一個星期」時，他們就沒有什麼可賣的了，他們可以穿過馬路，這將需要他們一天。

So good ideas, bad execution, and now it's up to us to execute and turn it around.

好的想法，糟糕的執行，現在輪到我們執行並扭轉局面了。

Understood.

明白了。

And then just a question on the investment fund, given the change in the White House.

鑑於白宮的變化，然後是關於投資基金的問題。

And as you look at the portfolio today and it's construct as well as both of the long positions you highlighted as well as the kind of hedges any changes to how you're thinking about the mix or the, overall net exposure, given what has, what has transpired this past week.

當您查看今天的投資組合及其結構以及您強調的多頭頭寸以及對沖類型時，考慮到您對組合或整體淨敞口的看法發生了任何變化，過去一周發生的事情。

I'd say not too many changes in terms of the hedge book, but it is nice to be able to rely and use the M&A tool a bit more, right?

我想說，對沖帳簿方面沒有太多變化，但能夠更多地依賴和使用併購工具是很好的，對吧？

So things that were off the table maybe won't be off the table.

因此，那些不被討論的事情也許不會被排除。

I think there was an article not too long ago, and I think it was the Journal, right, where they were highlighting that activists were replacing CEOs as the primary tool to improve the business and moving away from M&A.

我想不久前有一篇文章，我認為是《華爾街日報》，對吧，他們強調激進主義者正在取代首席執行官，作為改善業務和擺脫併購的主要工具。

And I think this change in administration, hopefully, will give us more options to push for more ways to make money.

我認為，政府的這項變革有望為我們提供更多選擇，推動更多賺錢方式。

It's also nice to have, I think, a bunch of our businesses or at least if you look at CVI, and I think the Trump administration will be much more favorable towards refining than the prior.

我認為，擁有我們的一些業務也很好，或者至少如果你看看 CVI，我認為川普政府將比以前更傾向於精煉。

Got it.

知道了。

And then just last one, just on the dividend and the outlook.

最後一點是關於股息和前景。

As you think about the change today with also the proposals around CVI and others and knowing you can't predict when the dividend at CVR is coming back?

當您考慮今天的變化以及圍繞 CVI 和其他方面的提案時，您知道您無法預測 CVR 的股息何時會回來？

Like what is contemplated as we think about the go forward in terms of sustainability of the current dividend here versus what's coming off of the business and the liquidity overall?

就像我們在考慮當前股利的可持續性與業務和整體流動性方面的進展時所設想的那樣？

Yes.

是的。

Look, I think it comes back to the same thing we've been discussing, which is we evaluate it every quarter.

看，我認為這又回到了我們一直在討論的同一件事，那就是我們每個季度都會對其進行評估。

Clearly, it's been an important part of our story in the past, but it's something we evaluate all the time.

顯然，這是我們過去故事的重要組成部分，但我們一直在評估它。

I think if we are right and that the assets that we own are attractive, they're undervalued, and we can do important things to unlock that, then we can probably continue to stick to our knitting.

我認為，如果我們是對的，並且我們擁有的資產很有吸引力，但它們的價值被低估了，我們可以做一些重要的事情來釋放這些資產，那麼我們可能會繼續堅持我們的編織。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Andrew Berg, Post Advisory Group.

安德魯伯格，郵政諮詢小組。

Hi, thank you.

你好，謝謝。

If we go back to Automotive real quickly.

如果我們很快回到汽車領域。

Was it just a change in the CEO spot?

這只是CEO職位的變動嗎？

Or were there other management changes?

或是有其他管理層變動嗎？

And if so, which changes were done?

如果是的話，做了哪些改變？

Yeah, I think that, you know, there were a few changes that were made.

是的，我認為，你知道，做了一些改變。

The CEO and the CFO have changed.

執行長和財務長發生了變化。

There were some others as well.

還有其他一些人。

I would just say that the other changes that were made were for people to do, I'd say, rather than having mid-level management or senior level management is more to have more people doing the actual work, getting back to basics to improve the core business.

我只想說，其他的改變是讓人們做的，我想說，與其說是中階管理或高階管理，不如說是讓更多的人做實際工作，回到基礎來改善核心業務。

Okay.

好的。

When you're looking at Food [Packaging] (added by company after the call), you had mentioned the need for CapEx there to modernize the facility.

當您查看食品[包裝]（由公司在通話後添加）時，您提到需要資本支出來實現設施現代化。

How much CapEx do you think needs to be invested there to get it to a level that you guys would be happy with?

您認為需要在那裡投資多少資本支出才能達到您滿意的水平？

It's too early to spit out a number.

現在吐出一個數字還為時過早。

So management is working on a capital plan, but it is apparent that we need to bring cost out of the P&L to increase the bottom line.

因此，管理層正在製定資本計劃，但顯然我們需要將成本從損益表中剔除，以增加利潤。

So they've been working on that for the past two quarters.

所以他們在過去兩個季度一直在努力解決這個問題。

I am expecting to have an update on the next call to see how much of an outlay, the time frame and get more into the nitty gritty of the details.

我期待在下一次通話中得到最新消息，了解費用是多少、時間框架，並更多地了解細節的實質內容。

We look at it as a variety of options, kind of stages.

我們將其視為多種選擇、某種階段。

And from the IEP level, it's an immaterial amount.

從 IEP 的水平來看，這是一個微不足道的數額。

Okay.

好的。

And given that last comment, it sounds like any needs they would have would be something then that could just be financed and handled at that subsidiary level wouldn't require any downstream cash or equity investment from you guys?

鑑於最後的評論，聽起來他們的任何需求都可以在子公司層面進行融資和處理，不需要你們提供任何下游現金或股權投資？

It was, it wouldn't be notable.

是的，這不會引人注目。

I think Viskase is a certain size, we're a certain size.

我認為 Viskase 有一定的規模，我們也有一定的規模。

And so we just evaluate each capital structure and figure out the best decision for each business.

因此，我們只是評估每個資本結構並為每個業務找出最佳決策。

Yes.

是的。

And I think timing would have a big impact on that, whether we can stretch it out or speed it up.

我認為時機會對這一點產生很大的影響，無論我們是否可以延長它或加快它。

So I think getting the plan, we'd be able to answer the question appropriately, but it's not going to be a big outlay for IEP.

因此，我認為在製定計劃後，我們就能夠適當地回答這個問題，但這不會是 IEP 的一大筆支出。

Okay.

好的。

Just wanted to confirm that.

只是想確認一下。

And then can you help me reconcile the holdings in the investment funds.

然後你能幫我核對投資基金的持股嗎？

You noted that the performance was up and up nicely ex the hedge you had on.

您注意到，除了您所持有的對沖之外，業績一直在上升。

But the value that's shown on slide 11 is down a little bit, which suggests there was distributions that came out of that.

但幻燈片 11 中顯示的值略有下降，這表示存在由此產生的分佈。

I think the number was probably around $500 million.

我認為這個數字可能在 5 億美元左右。

But I just want to make sure I'm understanding the math and the movements there.

但我只是想確保我理解其中的數學和動作。

Yes.

是的。

So there was a distribution during the quarter.

因此，本季進行了分配。

And so you see a movement from the investment funds into the IEP holding company cash.

因此，您會看到投資基金轉向 IEP 控股公司現金。

And then we'd use that cash for -- it goes into a big bucket, and we use it as we did in the quarter.

然後我們會將這些現金用於——它被放入一個大桶中，我們像本季一樣使用它。

So you'd see some bond repurchases that were there, that'd probably be one of the bigger uses of cash during the quarter.

因此，您會看到一些債券回購，這可能是本季現金的較大用途之一。

Okay.

好的。

And the repurchases that -- I'm just trying to recall, was that for a maturity?

我只是想回想一下，回購是為了成熟嗎？

Or were you buying bonds in the open market?

或者您是在公開市場購買債券嗎？

There were some repurchases in the open market.

公開市場上有一些回購。

So if you look on that bottom row, where you look at the unsecured debt balance, you could see that it ticked down.

因此，如果您查看底行，即無擔保債務餘額，您會發現它正在下降。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

And then lastly, with respect to the dividend, I think that Carl had elected to take some in cash in the recent past, but historically, you've been taking more of it in stock, given the reduction and given the desire to use the company's capital to help fund the CVR investment, is he going to switch back to taking it predominantly or entirely in stock versus cash going forward?

最後，關於股息，我認為卡爾最近選擇了一些現金，但從歷史上看，考慮到股息的減少以及考慮到使用股票的願望，你一直在以股票的形式獲取更多的股息。幫助資助CVR 投資，他是否會轉回主要或全部以股票而非現金的方式進行投資？

Yes.

是的。

So that's a decision for Carl.

這就是卡爾的決定。

He has the same decision that all the other shareholders have.

他和所有其他股東有同樣的決定。

Okay.

好的。

And he hasn't communicated things either way on that, or doesn't want to say?

他還沒有以任何方式溝通過，或不想說？

He has not.

他沒有。

Okay, thanks guys.

好的，謝謝大家。

You got it.

你明白了。

Bruce Monrad, Northeast Investors Trust.

布魯斯·蒙拉德，東北投資者信託基金。

Hi guys.

嗨，大家好。

Thanks for hosting the call.

感謝您主持此通話。

A question on Food Packaging, if I could.

如果可以的話，請教一個關於食品包裝的問題。

So in May, at the annual meeting of this case, you guys said or the management said that budget for 2024 was for EBITDA profitability to be higher than that in '23.

所以5月份，在這個案例的年會上，你們說或管理階層說2024年的預算是EBITDA獲利能力高於23年。

And so my question is what changed so suddenly here?

所以我的問題是這裡發生了什麼突然的變化？

What did you -- what didn't you know then that you learned subsequent.

你做了什麼——你當時不知道什麼，但後來你又學到了。

Can you help me on that?

你能幫我嗎？

And I have a follow-up.

我有一個後續行動。

Yes.

是的。

Just to give more context what happened this quarter is, as I mentioned, volume was up compared to the prior year period.

正如我所提到的，為了提供更多背景信息，本季發生的情況是，成交量與去年同期相比有所增加。

But the mix of product we're selling was at a lower margin and then there's price, which let me touch on price.

但我們銷售的產品組合利潤率較低，還有價格，這讓我談談價格。

As I mentioned in previous call, the supply chain has stabilized.

正如我在之前的電話會議中提到的，供應鏈已經穩定。

And what that's done for the industry is it brought back the price competitiveness to what I call pre-pandemic levels when things were more normalized.

這對該行業的作用是將價格競爭力恢復到我所說的大流行前的水平，當時情況更加正常化。

So that, layer in the higher waste that we have as compared to historical periods, and that all affects the bottom line.

因此，與歷史時期相比，我們擁有更多的浪費，這一切都會影響底線。

And there is some upside in tackling the waste and management has initiatives to do so.

處理浪費有一些好處，管理階層也有這樣做的措施。

But like I mentioned in the previous question, the biggest impact we see to improve 2025 and beyond would be a capital plan to take further costs out of the P&L.

但正如我在上一個問題中提到的，我們認為 2025 年及以後改善的最大影響將是一項資本計劃，以進一步從損益表中扣除成本。

Well, so correct.

嗯，非常正確。

I mean so Viscofan sort of patting itself on the back and saying that the destocking is done, but demand has normalized. (inaudible), I'm a little surprised that the -- that hasn't been straightened out by now.

我的意思是，維斯科凡有點沾沾自喜，說去庫存已經完成，但需求已經正常化。 （聽不清楚），我有點驚訝的是──現在還沒理順。

It's sort of sprung out of nowhere 24 to 36 months ago, I remember talking 24 months ago with Dave Willis on this call, and he said they would be two to three quarters.

它是在 24 到 36 個月前突然出現的，我記得 24 個月前與戴夫威利斯 (Dave Willis) 在這次電話會議上交談過，他說他們會是兩到三個季度。

Why is that this proving so intractable?

為什麼這麼棘手？

What's going on there?

那裡發生了什麼事？

Why -- and why is this a surprise?

為什麼——為什麼這令人驚訝？

Why I know why do we need to default to a capital plan?

為什麼我知道為什麼我們需要預設資本計劃？

Is it something that should be able to be fixed in-house?

這是應該能夠在內部修復的東西嗎？

What's changed here?

這裡發生了什麼變化？

.

。

The waste has many elements to it, but one of them is the old machinery.

廢物有很多成分，但其​​中之一就是舊機器。

So we're doing a lot of the planned maintenance, but as these things age out, we're seeing that we probably have to adjust the planned maintenance, and it's costing more and more to maintain them.

因此，我們正在進行大量的計劃維護，但隨著這些東西的老化，我們發現我們可能必須調整計劃維護，並且維護它們的成本越來越高。

And even with so, they go down unexpectedly, which is causing waste.

即使如此，它們也會意外下降，造成浪費。

So part of this capital plan would be to modernize the equipment and that would alleviate that aspect of it.

因此，該資本計畫的一部分是對設備進行現代化改造，這將緩解這方面的問題。

But there's many elements to the waste that management has been firefighting.

但管理階層一直在努力解決造成浪費的許多因素。

And with regard to waste with regard to this, what -- again, what was the epiphany that occurred in the summer that you didn't -- that we didn't know about, management didn't know about in May when they were guided higher?

關於浪費，再次強調一下，夏天發生的頓悟是什麼，我們不知道，管理層在 5 月也不知道，當時他們引導更高？

It's really just the pricing competitiveness, I would say, and the mix of business.

我想說，這實際上只是定價競爭力和業務組合。

They were budgeting for a better mix and that didn't come to fruition.

他們正在為更好的組合製定預算，但沒有實現。

Okay.

好的。

And is the mix issue?

還是混合問題？

Is that mostly US?

主要是美國嗎？

Or is that Europe, would you say?

或者你會說那是歐洲嗎？

The change in that.

變化就在於此。

It's throughout every region, mostly in Europe.

它遍及每個地區，主要是在歐洲。

Okay.

好的。

So if the mix, if I look at -- if I went back to your 10-K for greater '23 the region that was suffering for profitability was really the US, if I've got it right.

因此，如果我看一下混合情況，如果我回到 23 年的 10-K，那麼盈利能力受到影響的地區確實是美國，如果我沒猜錯的話。

So what is the structural issue there that's not getting resolved?

那麼，到底是什麼結構性問題沒有解決呢？

Are your competitors?

是你的競爭對手嗎？

I'm thinking is Kalle North America having I mean they don't have new shiny plants?

我在想卡勒北美是否有我的意思是他們沒有新的閃亮植物？

Are they -- I mean are they suffering.

他們──我的意思是他們正在受苦嗎？

Sorry to cut you off, we could set up a call to go through more detail on Viskase at a future time.

很抱歉打擾您，我們可以在以後撥打電話以了解有關 Viskase 的更多詳細資訊。

Okay.

好的。

Can I just ask one more, which is just to say, do you think the industry would benefit from consolidation?

我能再問一個問題嗎？

And that I'll let you go.

我會讓你走。

Yes, throughout our portfolio, we look at opportunities and it couldn’t hurt, but there's nothing that we see right now that makes sense.

是的，在我們的整個投資組合中，我們尋找機會，這不會有什麼壞處，但我們現在看到的沒有任何有意義的東西。

Okay.

好的。

Alright.

好吧。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you all.

謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks Bruce.

謝謝布魯斯。

I show no further questions at this time.

我目前沒有提出任何進一步的問題。

I would now like to turn the call back to Andrew Teno for closing remarks.

現在我想將電話轉回給安德魯·特諾（Andrew Teno），讓其致閉幕詞。

Thank you, everyone, for joining this morning's call.

謝謝大家參加今天早上的電話會議。

Just leave you with some final comments, which is we think it's an active and attractive environment for activism in today's markets.

最後給您留下一些評論，我們認為對於當今市場的激進主義來說，這是一個活躍且有吸引力的環境。

We think we have an underappreciated portfolio.

我們認為我們的投資組合被低估了。

It's our job to kind of prove out that value to you, and we have a war chest of cash and liquidity to go ahead and take advantage of it.

我們的工作就是向您證明這種價值，並且我們擁有大量現金和流動性來繼續利用它。

So we'll speak soon.

所以我們很快就會講。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Bye.

再見。

This concludes today's conference call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you for participating.

感謝您的參與。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。