Anywhere Real Estate Inc (HOUS) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to the Anywhere Real Estate year-end 2024 earnings conference call via webcast. (Operator Instructions)

早安，歡迎透過網路直播參加 Anywhere Real Estate 2024 年年終財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to anywhere Senior Vice President Alicia Swift. Please go ahead, Alicia.

現在，我想將會議交給高級副總裁艾麗西亞·斯威夫特 (Alicia Swift)。請繼續，艾麗西亞。

Thank you, Sarah. Good morning and welcome to the year-end 2024 earnings conference call for Anywhere Real Estate. On the call with me today are Anywhere CEO, President; Ryan Schneider and Chief Financial Officer, Charlotte Simonelli.

謝謝你，莎拉。早安，歡迎參加 Anywhere Real Estate 2024 年年終財報電話會議。今天與我一起通話的有 Anywhere 執行長、總裁； Ryan Schneider 和財務長 Charlotte Simonelli。

As shown on slide 3 of the presentation, the company will be making statements about this future result and other forward-looking statements during this call. These statements are based on the current expectation and the current economic environment.

正如簡報第 3 頁所示，本公司將在本次電話會議中就未來結果和其他前瞻性陳述做出聲明。這些聲明是基於當前的預期和當前的經濟環境。

Forward-looking statements, estimates, and projections are inherently subject to significant economic, competitive, antitrust, and other litigation, regulatory and other uncertainties and contingencies, many of which are beyond the control of management, including, among others, industry and macroeconomic development, as well as uncertainty related to the California wildfires.

前瞻性陳述、估計和預測本質上受重大經濟、競爭、反壟斷和其他訴訟、監管和其他不確定因素和意外事件的影響，其中許多因素超出了管理層的控制範圍，包括但不限於行業和宏觀經濟發展，以及與加州野火有關的不確定性。

Actual results may differ materially from those expressed or implied in the forward-looking statements. Effective December 30, 2024, the company updated its definition of operating EBITA to include adjustments for non-cash stock-based compensation and certain legal matters. These revisions enhance comparability with industry peers, and all the figures discussed in this call and in our reported materials are adjusted to reflect this change.

實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中表達或暗示的結果有重大差異。自 2024 年 12 月 30 日起，本公司更新了營業 EBITA 的定義，以包括非現金股票薪酬和某些法律事項的調整。這些修訂增強了與業界同行的可比性，並且本次電話會議和我們報告資料中討論的所有數據都進行了調整以反映這一變化。

The inclusion of these adjustments does not materially affect segment level trends or conclusions previously disclosed. Reconciliations of operating EBITA to the most directly comparable GAAP measure are provided for all periods reported. The references made to January in these remarks are preliminary results for the month. January, 2025 has the same number of business days as January, 2024.

納入這些調整不會對先前揭露的分部層面的趨勢或結論產生重大影響。對所有報告期間的經營 EBITA 與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標進行了對帳。這些評論中提到的一月份是該月的初步結果。2025 年 1 月的工作天數與 2024 年 1 月相同。

We have 3 large expected one-time free cash flow headwinds in 2025 which total approximately $115 million. The first headwind is our approved $83.5 million litigation settlements. We have made $30 million in payments.

我們預計 2025 年將出現 3 大一次性自由現金流逆風，總額約 1.15 億美元。第一個阻力是我們批准的8,350萬美元的訴訟和解金。我們已經支付了3000萬美元。

The remaining [53.5] will be due when the appeals are resolved. The timing of the appeals is uncertain, depending on the developments in the proceedings, and we currently expect the payment to occur no earlier than mid 2025. Second, the 1999 Send legacy tax matter of approximately $40 million is due shortly after the notice is received and is anticipated in 2025.

剩餘的[53.5]將在上訴解決後到期。上訴時間尚不確定，取決於訴訟程序的發展，我們目前預計付款將不早於 2025 年中期。其次，1999 年 Send 遺留稅務問題約 4,000 萬美元，應在收到通知後不久支付，預計在 2025 年支付。

Third, in January 2025, the company entered into a settlement of the [bumpus] or TCPA litigation for $20 million. We anticipate making this payment in Q3 2025, which is subject to preliminary and final court approval. For further discussion of these matters, see our SEC periodic reports.

第三，2025 年 1 月，該公司以 2,000 萬美元的價格就 [bumpus] 或 TCPA 訴訟達成和解。我們預計將在 2025 年第三季支付這筆款項，但需獲得初步和最終的法院批准。有關這些事項的進一步討論，請參閱我們的 SEC 定期報告。

The reference to core franchise in these remarks is the franchise segment excluding relocation and leads. Important assumptions and factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those in the forward-looking statements are specified in our earnings release issued today as well as our annual and quarterly SEC filings.

這些評論中提到的核心特許經營權是指不包括搬遷和線索的特許經營部分。我們今天發布的收益報告以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的年度和季度文件中列出了可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述有重大差異的重要假設和因素。

For those who listen to the rebroadcast of this presentation, we remind you that the remarks made herein are as of today, February, 13, and have not been updated subsequent to the initial earnings call. Now I will turn the call over to our CEO and President Ryan Schneider.

對於那些收聽該簡報重播的人，我們提醒您，此處所發表的評論截至今天（2 月 13 日），並且在首次收益電話會議之後尚未更新。現在我將電話轉給我們的執行長兼總裁 Ryan Schneider。

Thank you, Alicia. Good morning, everyone. I was recently reminded of a famous da Vinci quote that states people of accomplishment rarely sit back and let things happen to them. They go out and happen two things, and this is exactly Anywhere Real Estate did in 2024 and is going to do in 2025.

謝謝你，艾莉西亞。大家早安。最近我想起了達文西的一句名言，他說，有成就的人很少坐視不管，任由事情發生在自己身上。他們出去做了兩件事，這正是 Anywhere Real Estate 在 2024 年所做的事情以及將在 2025 年要做的事。

In 2024, we delivered industry leading EBITA. We helped our agents and franchisees navigate both the tough housing market and the industry practice changes with competitive edge, and we continue to invest in and accelerate our strategy, enhancing our market position to fuel growth and deliver long term value for our stakeholders. As we take on 2025, we're prepared to lead with the same proactive energy to power our future success.

2024年，我們實現了業界領先的EBITA。我們幫助我們的代理商和特許經營商以競爭優勢應對嚴峻的房地產市場和行業實踐變化，並且我們將繼續投資和加速我們的策略，增強我們的市場地位，以促進成長並為我們的利害關係人提供長期價值。當我們邁向 2025 年時，我們準備以同樣積極主動的能量來推動我們未來的成功。

Now reflecting on our 2024 performance, we generated $290 million of operating EBITDA, up $35 million from the prior year, and delivered $50 million of free cash flow, $70 million excluding our $20 million litigation settlement payment. We closed the year with strong momentum, earning $52 million of operating EBITA in the fourth quarter, up $24 million year over year with 13% closed transaction volume growth.

現在回顧我們 2024 年的業績，我們創造了 2.9 億美元的營業 EBITDA，比上一年增加了 3500 萬美元，並實現了 5000 萬美元的自由現金流，其中 7000 萬美元（不包括 2000 萬美元的訴訟和解金）。我們以強勁的發展勢頭結束了這一財年，第四季度的營業息稅折舊攤銷前利潤 (EBITA) 為 5,200 萬美元，比去年同期增加了 2,400 萬美元，交易量增加了 13%。

We exceeded our cost saving target by 25%, achieving nearly $125 million in savings by simplifying, automating, and streamlining our operations. Now looking ahead, we're focused on new technologies and automation to unlock new cost saving opportunities that really didn't exist before, and we have targeted another $100 million for 2025, reinforcing our commitment to permanently lowering our cost base and enhancing our earnings power.

透過簡化、自動化和精簡我們的營運，我們超越了成本節約目標 25%，實現了近 1.25 億美元的節約。展望未來，我們專注於新技術和自動化，以釋放以前不存在的新的成本節約機會，並且我們已為 2025 年設定了另外 1 億美元的目標，以加強我們永久降低成本基礎和提高盈利能力的承諾。

And we accelerated our aggressive AI agenda, deploying generative AI at scale across many parts of our business to drive better experiences faster and at lower cost. Our efforts include both customer facing examples and internal solutions that are transforming how we operate. For example, our listing concierge product with its new AI integration drove significant adoption and was named best use of AI by a brokerage in 2024.

我們加快了積極的人工智慧議程，在我們業務的許多部分大規模部署生成式人工智慧，以更快、更低成本地帶來更好的體驗。我們的努力包括面向客戶的實例和正在改變我們營運方式的內部解決方案。例如，我們的上市禮賓產品及其新的 AI 整合推動了廣泛採用，並在 2024 年被一家經紀公司評為最佳 AI 使用產品。

New AI integration in our leads business is better identifying and targeting consumers most likely to become buyers. We are now able to better match these higher quality leads with our best performing agents faster than before, and these leads are seeing a 40% improvement in conversion rates.

我們的主要業務中新的人工智慧整合可以更好地識別和定位最有可能成為買家的消費者。我們現在能夠比以前更快地將這些更高品質的潛在客戶與我們表現最佳的代理商進行更好地匹配，並且這些潛在客戶的轉換率提高了 40%。

And Generative AI continues to improve our operations. We currently process about 15,000 documents a day to support our brokers transactions. With Generative AI, we have the ability to process these with fewer than half the team in a fraction of the time, with a significant reduction in error rates. And in our most recent pilot, we've seen error rates fall to as low as 1 in 5,000 documents processed.

生成式人工智慧不斷改善我們的營運。我們目前每天處理大約 15,000 份文件來支持我們經紀人的交易。借助生成式人工智慧，我們能夠在很短的時間內以不到一半的團隊力量來處理這些問題，並且顯著降低錯誤率。在我們最近的試點中，我們發現錯誤率下降到了每處理 5,000 份文件就有 1 份的錯誤。

Now turning to growth, we meaningfully expanded our luxury leadership across Sotheby's International Realty, Corcoran and Coldwell Banker Global Luxury. Our luxury volume was up nearly 10% for the year and approximately 20% in the fourth quarter as we gained meaningful market share here. The most exciting thing about our luxury performance is the powerful unit growth, which grew 4% year over year for the full year and by 12% year over year in Q4, both substantially exceeding the market's unit results.

現在談到成長，我們在蘇富比國際房地產、Corcoran 和 Coldwell Banker Global Luxury 等豪華房地產領域顯著拓展了我們的領導地位。由於我們獲得了可觀的市場份額，我們今年的奢侈品銷量增長了近 10%，第四季度增長了約 20%。我們的豪華車表現最令人興奮的是強勁的單位增長，全年同比增長 4%，第四季度同比增長 12%，均大幅超過市場的單位業績。

We continue to lead the industry selling the most luxury homes at all luxury price points. So, for example, we sold over $1010 million homes in 2024 and have over, $1010 million plus listings in our current portfolio. Our Sotheby's concierge auction business, where we are paid both a buyer premium and a seller commission, continues to grow and had a $5 billion plus average sales price in 2024.

我們將繼續引領業界，銷售各價位最多的豪華住宅。例如，我們在 2024 年售出了價值超過 10.1 億美元的房屋，而我們目前的投資組合中擁有價值超過 10.1 億美元的房源。我們的蘇富比禮賓拍賣業務（我們從中獲得買家溢價和賣家佣金）持續成長，2024 年的平均銷售價格超過 50 億美元。

And this luxury success is driven by our distinctive value propositions and the talented agents who continue to flock to and stay with our great luxury brands. We grew our high margin franchise network, adding 67 new franchisees in 2024 with 28 new franchisees in Q4, and in Q4 we were especially proud of the addition of a 400 agent longtime independent family owned brokerage in the DC area to our growing Corcoran brand.

這項奢侈品成功是由我們獨特的價值主張和持續湧向並留在我們一流奢侈品品牌的優秀代理商推動的。我們擴大了高利潤的特許經營網絡，2024 年增加了 67 家新特許經營商，第四季度增加了 28 家新特許經營商，第四季度我們尤其自豪的是，華盛頓特區一家擁有 400 名代理商的長期獨立家族經紀公司加入了我們不斷發展的 Corcoran 品牌。

We broadened our upward title joint venture from 3 to 6 states in 2024 with now over 20 franchise partners in place and 3 more states in the pipeline. We love the upward tight of momentum in the business because it opens new earnings opportunities for us and our franchisees, enhances our value proposition, and deepens our relationship with participating franchisees.

2024 年，我們將把向上所有權合資企業的範圍從 3 個州擴大到 6 個州，現在已有 20 多個特許經營合作夥伴，另有 3 個州正在籌備中。我們喜歡業務上升的勢頭，因為它為我們和我們的特許經營商開闢了新的盈利機會，增強了我們的價值主張，並加深了我們與參與特許經營商的關係。

We successfully implemented complex industry practice changes, providing our network with clear guidance and innovative solutions, giving them a significant competitive edge. For instance, our key sign product enables agents to effortlessly create and collect digitally signed buyer agreements by simply scanning a client's license with their mobile device.

我們成功實施了複雜的產業實踐變革，為我們的網路提供了明確的指導和創新的解決方案，賦予了他們顯著的競爭優勢。例如，我們的關鍵標誌產品使代理商只需使用行動裝置掃描客戶的許可證即可輕鬆建立和收集數位簽章的買方協議。

And finally in late 2024 we launched Reimagine '25 to transform how we operate as a company going forward, seizing new opportunities to unlock by generative AI and other emerging technologies to deliver better experiences for our customers faster and at lower cost. Reimagine '25 enables us as early adopters to jumpstart a more innovative future and will serve as the foundation of our continued efforts to lower our cost base.

最後，在 2024 年底，我們啟動了 Reimagine '25，以改變我們未來的公司營運方式，抓住生成式人工智慧和其他新興技術帶來的新機遇，以更快、更低成本為我們的客戶提供更好的體驗。Reimagine '25 使我們作為早期採用者能夠啟動一個更具創新性的未來，並將成為我們繼續努力降低成本基礎的基礎。

Now turning to 2025, January started off much like the end of 2024. The housing market remains challenged, especially with a lack of supply and real pressure on the number of unit transactions. However, we had a robust January with 12% closed volume growth year over year driven by price gains, and our open volume in January, while softer, was still positive at 4%, also driven by price gains.

現在轉向 2025 年，一月的開始時就像 2024 年底一樣。房地產市場仍面臨挑戰，特別是供應不足和單位交易數量面臨實際壓力。然而，在價格上漲的推動下，我們 1 月份表現強勁，結單量年增 12%，而 1 月份開倉量雖然有所下降，但仍為 4%，這也是受價格上漲推動的。

Now, even more important for 2025, there's two industry topics I want to be clear on. The first is NAR's clear cooperation policy, which requires all listings to be put on the MLS within 24 hours of publicly marking a property. Our position is that the rules should be relaxed to provide more flexibility to sellers. However, we oppose a blanket repeal as we believe transparency and access to all available inventory are in the best interests of both sellers and buyers.

現在，對於 2025 年來說更重要的是，有兩個行業主題我想明確。首先是NAR明確的合作政策，要求所有房產在公開標記後24小時內必須在MLS上發布。我們的立場是應該放寬規則，為賣家提供更多彈性。然而，我們反對全面廢除，因為我們認為透明度和獲取所有可用庫存的權限符合賣家和買家的最佳利益。

Those advocating for full repeal are primarily advancing their own interests, as there's clearly an opportunity for players with listing scale to create private off-market listing networks that only select agents can access, which clearly could enhance near-term economics. But we believe this is bad for consumers, and we think it's best to do what's in the long term interest of the consumer.

那些主張全面廢除的人主要是為了推進自己的利益，因為對於具有上市規模的參與者來說，顯然有機會創建只有選定的代理商才能訪問的私人場外上市網絡，這顯然可以增強近期的經濟效益。但我們認為這對消費者不利，我們認為最好的做法是從消費者的長遠利益出發。

However, let me be clear, we actually have the most listings in the industry across our brands. If the market evolves to favor private off-market listing networks, we are ready to capitalize, and we will ensure our agents and franchisees are never disadvantaged. The scale of anywhere offers significant benefits, and we're prepared to leverage all of our advantages to make sure our agents and franchisees have everything they need to succeed in a private listings world.

不過，我要明確一點，事實上，我們的品牌在業界的上市數量是最多的。如果市場發展有利於私人場外上市網絡，我們準備好利用它，並確保我們的代理商和特許經營商永遠不會受到不利影響。任何地方的規模都能帶來顯著的優勢，我們準備好利用我們的所有優勢，確保我們的代理商和加盟商擁有在私人上市世界中取得成功所需的一切。

The second topic is industry consolidation. We're seeing more firms looking to sell across brokerage, adjacent services, and prop tech. We're well positioned to explore these opportunities not only because of our liquidity, but also due to the competitive edge that we offer. We believe our assets enable us to provide unique solutions with the most synergies, the easiest integration, and ready to use technology.

第二個主題是產業整合。我們看到越來越多的公司尋求跨經紀、相鄰服務和房地產技術進行銷售。我們之所以能夠探索這些機會，不僅是因為我們擁有流動性，還因為我們擁有競爭優勢。我們相信，我們的資產使我們能夠提供具有最多協同效應、最簡易整合且隨時可用技術的獨特解決方案。

We would be excited to augment our growth through M&A opportunities at attractive economics, and to be clear, we will maintain a disciplined approach to profitability with deals that enhance the bottom line, not just the top line. With that, let me now turn over to Charlotte for more details on 2024.

我們很高興能夠透過具有吸引力的經濟狀況下的併購機會來促進我們的成長，而且要明確的是，我們將保持嚴謹的獲利方式，透過交易來提高利潤，而不僅僅是收入。說完這些，現在讓我把話題轉到夏洛特身上，了解更多關於 2024 年的細節。

Good morning, everyone. We ended 2024 with numerous successes, we generated meaningful operating EBITA. We overdelivered on cost savings. We successfully navigated through unprecedented industry uncertainty and helped our franchisees and agents implement practice changes with minimal impact to our financials.

大家早安。我們在 2024 年取得了許多成功，創造了有意義的營業 EBITA。我們超額完成了成本節約任務。我們成功度過了前所未有的行業不確定性，並幫助我們的特許經營商和代理商實施實踐變革，對我們的財務影響最小。

We reduced and lengthened our capital structure with the repayment of our term loan A and some debt repurchases. We saw agent commission split trends continue to moderate for yet another year. We prudently managed our cash and we made significant progress on our strategy and exited the year with solid momentum.

我們透過償還定期貸款 A 和回購一些債務來減少和延長我們的資本結構。我們看到代理商佣金分成趨勢在接下來的一年持續趨於緩和。我們審慎管理現金，並在策略上取得了重大進展，以強勁的勢頭結束了這一年。

I will now highlight our Q4 and full year 2024 financial results.

現在我將重點介紹我們的 2024 年第四季和全年財務表現。

As Alicia mentioned in our opening, we have revised how we report operating IEA to enhance comparability to industry peers, and all the figures discussed in this call and in our reported materials reflect this change.

正如艾莉西亞在開幕式上提到的，我們已經修改了報告運營 IEA 的方式，以增強與業內同行的可比性，本次電話會議和報告材料中討論的所有數據都反映了這一變化。

Q4 revenue was $1.4 billion, up 9% versus prior year. An operating EBITA was $52 million an increase of 86% versus prior year, primarily due to higher transaction volume and cost savings partially offset by foreign currency impacts and relocation and some costs related to the acquisition of DOMA in our underwriter JB.

第四季營收為 14 億美元，較上年成長 9%。營業 EBITA 為 5,200 萬美元，較上年增長 86%，主要由於交易量增加和成本節約，但被外匯影響和搬遷以及收購我們承銷商 JB 的 DOMA 相關的一些成本部分抵消。

Full year revenue was $5.7 billion up 1% versus prior year, and operating EBITA was $290 million an increase of 14% versus prior year, primarily driven by higher operating margins as we continue to improve our cost structure. We realized nearly $125 million of cost savings, which was about 25% higher than our initial targets, and achieved efficiencies across the enterprise, with the majority coming from our own brokerage and title businesses as we further integrate and simplify the real estate transaction.

全年營收為 57 億美元，較前一年成長 1%，營業 EBITA 為 2.9 億美元，較前一年成長 14%，主要得益於我們持續改善成本結構帶來的營業利潤率提高。我們實現了近 1.25 億美元的成本節約，比我們最初的目標高出約 25%，並且實現了整個企業的效率，其中大部分來自我們自己的經紀和產權業務，因為我們進一步整合和簡化了房地產交易。

Total operating, marketing, and GNA expenses for the year totalled $1.71 billion down $72 million versus prior year. About 40% of our realized cost savings were offset by growth-related costs and other inflationary items.

全年營運、行銷和 GNA 總支出為 17.1 億美元，較上年下降 7,200 萬美元。我們實現的成本節約中約有 40% 被與成長相關的成本和其他通膨項目所抵銷。

Full year free cash flow was $70 million before the $20 million litigation payment made in the second quarter. Our full year free cash flow delivery was about $30 million below our target due to the timing of a tax refund, which was initially expected in Q4, but now anticipated in the first half of this year.

在第二季支付 2,000 萬美元訴訟費用之前，全年自由現金流為 7,000 萬美元。由於退稅時間的原因，我們全年的自由現金流交付比目標低了約 3000 萬美元，退稅最初預計在第四季度，但現在預計在今年上半年。

Consistent with our capital allocation priorities, we used our free cash flow to invest in our future and to pay down debt. We continue to make selective investments to drive growth, including attracting new agents and franchisees at better margins, expanding our technology platform with new products and services, and streamlining our operations to deliver better experiences faster at lower costs.

根據我們的資本配置重點，我們利用自由現金流投資未來並償還債務。我們繼續進行選擇性投資以推動成長，包括以更高的利潤吸引新的代理商和特許經營商，透過新產品和服務擴展我們的技術平台，並精簡我們的營運以更低的成本更快地提供更好的體驗。

We also strengthened our balance sheet by pushing out maturities with no incremental interest expense and reducing overall debt by about $30 million. We will continue to opportunistically evaluate ways to improve our capital structure, and I am confident in our current position with no maturities due before March 2026 and ample liquidity remaining on our revolver.

我們還透過延長不增加利息支出的到期期限以及減少約 3,000 萬美元的總債務來增強我們的資產負債表。我們將繼續擇機評估改善資本結構的方法，我對我們目前的狀況充滿信心，因為在 2026 年 3 月之前沒有到期債務，而且我們的循環信貸額度仍有充足的流動資金。

It's important to highlight that this year's achievements are a continuation of our long-term strategy to enhance our operating results and capital structure. Since 2019, including two of the worst years in housing in three decades, we have delivered almost $700 million of realize cost savings and reduced overall debt by $930 million.

值得強調的是，今年的成就是我們提升經營績效和資本結構的長期策略的延續。自 2019 年以來，包括 30 年來房屋市場最糟糕的兩年，我們已實現近 7 億美元的成本節約，並減少了 9.3 億美元的整體債務。

We have a proven track record of delivering on our commitments and achieving our goals, exceeding the cost saving goals we put forth in our 2022 Investor day. On top of these accomplishments, we continue to push ahead with transformation through reimagine '25, which Ryan mentioned. This ambitious multi-year transformation effort aims to set us up for greater growth and success in the future.

我們在履行承諾和實現目標方面有著良好的記錄，超出了我們在 2022 年投資者日提出的成本節約目標。除了這些成就之外，我們還將繼續透過 Ryan 提到的重新構想 '25 來推動轉型。這項雄心勃勃的多年轉型努力旨在為我們未來更大的成長和成功做好準備。

It will contribute to our savings program for 2025 and beyond, leveraging technology to reduce manual processes and, importantly, enhance our value proposition and unlock growth opportunities. One example is innovating around agent support delivery using cutting edge technology to reduce in-person interactions and physical resources and instead focus on enhanced ready now support throughout the transaction.

它將為我們 2025 年及以後的儲蓄計劃做出貢獻，利用技術減少手動流程，更重要的是，增強我們的價值主張並釋放成長機會。一個例子是使用尖端技術在代理支援交付方面進行創新，以減少面對面的互動和實體資源，而是專注於在整個交易過程中增強立即可用支援。

Now let me go into more detail on our full year business segment performance. Our Anywhere brands business, which includes leads and relocation, generated $521 million in operating EBITA. Operating EBITA was down $6 million primarily due to foreign currency impacts in our relocation business. We remain confident in our core franchise business, which further expanded in the quarter and its robust margins.

現在，讓我更詳細地介紹一下我們全年業務部門的表現。我們的 Anywhere 品牌業務（包括銷售線索和搬遷）產生了 5.21 億美元的營業 EBITA。營業 EBITA 下降 600 萬美元，主要由於搬遷業務受到外匯影響。我們對我們的核心特許經營業務仍然充滿信心，該業務在本季度進一步擴大，且利潤率強勁。

Our Anywhere advisors operating EBITA with $93 million and increase of $42 million versus prior year driven by higher revenue and lower operating and marketing costs. This business generated $226 million in operating EBITA before the transfer of inter-company royalties and marketing fees paid to our franchise business.

我們的 Anywhere 顧問的營運 EBITA 為 9,300 萬美元，比去年同期增加了 4,200 萬美元，這得益於收入增加以及營運和行銷成本降低。在轉移支付給我們的特許經營業務的內部公司特許權使用費和行銷費用之前，這項業務創造了 2.26 億美元的營業 EBITA。

Agent commission splits were 80.3% in 2024, up 14 basis points versus the prior year, representing one of the best year over year results we've seen in a while. And our Q4 agent commission split rate was also 80.3%, down 7 basis points year over year and down 10 basis points sequentially from the prior year. This marks 11 consecutive quarters with our agent commission split rate about 80%, and this is all despite adding over 2,500 producing agents in 2024, underscoring our strong agent value proposition.

2024 年代理商佣金分成率為 80.3%，比前一年增加 14 個基點，是我們一段時間以來看到的最好的同比業績之一。我們第四季的代理商佣金分成率也為 80.3%，年減 7 個基點，較上年季減 10 個基點。這標誌著我們的代理商佣金分成率連續 11 個季度保持在 80% 左右，儘管 2024 年增加了 2,500 多名生產代理商，但這仍然凸顯了我們強大的代理商價值主張。

Anywhere Integrated services operating EBITA was negative $13 million, an improvement of $3 million versus prior year. Operating EBITA benefited year over year due to increases in both purchase and re-fi units partially offset by increased labour costs and our continued investment to roll out upward title.

Anywhere Integrated 服務營運 EBITA為負1,300萬美元，較上年改善300萬美元。由於購買和再融資單位的增加，營業 EBITA 年比增長，但勞動力成本的增加和我們持續投資以推出向上所有權的部分抵消了這一增長。

Equity and earnings was impacted by a $5 million decrease in our underwriter JV primarily related to the DOMA acquisition in Q4. Before discussing specific guidance, I want to address the California wildfires. We are actively monitoring the devastating impact in the Greater Los Angeles area with our primary focus on the safety of our people.

股權和收益受到承銷商合資企業 500 萬美元減少的影響，這主要與第四季的 DOMA 收購有關。在討論具體指導之前，我想先談談加州的野火問題。我們正在積極監測大洛杉磯地區的災難性影響，主要關注我們人民的安全。

Our hearts go out to our employees, affiliated agents, and franchisees who have been affected and forced to leave their homes. As of today, about 1,000 agents and a few of our own brokerage and title offices in that area have been impacted.

我們向受到影響並被迫離開家園的員工、附屬代理商和加盟商表示深切慰問。截至今天，該地區約有 1,000 名代理商和我們自己的一些經紀和產權辦事處受到了影響。

We are proud of our team's resilience and our ability to seamlessly service our clients to in part to our virtual service delivery model. And while the financial impact on this region is uncertain, we do know that the effects of this broad-based devastation will be felt in Q1 and beyond.

我們為我們團隊的韌性和為客戶提供無縫服務的能力感到自豪，這在一定程度上歸功於我們的虛擬服務交付模式。儘管對該地區的財務影響尚不確定，但我們知道，這種廣泛破壞的影響將在第一季及以後顯現。

Now turning to 2025. Given what we know today, we expect operating EBITA for the full year to be about $350 million with the biggest swing factor being the housing market itself, which is inherently volatile. We expect to deliver about $100 million in cost savings this year, which will be offset in part by inflationary pressures and investments as we look to make significant progress transforming our business.

現在轉向 2025 年。根據我們今天所掌握的信息，我們預計全年營業 EBITA 約為 3.5 億美元，其中最大的波動因素是房地產市場本身，而房地產市場本身就具有波動性。我們預計今年將節省約 1 億美元的成本，但隨著我們尋求在業務轉型方面取得重大進展，通膨壓力和投資將部分抵消這一成本。

We have proven our free cash flow delivery remains strong in both good and bad markets, and we anticipate our 2025 free cash flow, excluding one-time items to be similar to 2024. Free cash flow like EBITA is driven by the overall housing market and may be impacted by additional investments we make to drive growth and enhance our technology strategy.

我們已經證明，無論在好市場還是壞市場，我們的自由現金流交付都保持強勁，我們預計 2025 年的自由現金流（不包括一次性項目）將與 2024 年相似。EBITA等自由現金流受整體房地產市場驅動，並可能受到我們為推動成長和加強技術策略而進行的額外投資的影響。

Our fourth quarter and full year results highlight Anywhere's financial discipline. We start 2025 with determination and confidence reinforced by industry leading profitability and solid cash flow generation. I am proud of what we have accomplished and even more excited for the future as we truly transform our business, accelerate growth, and lead the industry forward.

我們的第四季和全年業績凸顯了 Anywhere 的財務紀律。我們以決心和信心開啟 2025 年，而業界領先的獲利能力和穩健的現金流創造則增強了這項決心和信心。我為我們所取得的成就感到自豪，更為未來感到興奮，因為我們將真正實現業務轉型、加速成長並引領產業前進。

Let me now turn the call back to Ryan for some closing remarks.

現在，請允許我把電話轉回給瑞安，請他做一些結束語。

Thank you, Charlotte. Anywhere Real estate's proven our ability to deliver results regardless of market conditions. In 2024, we navigated the housing market with resilience and determination, generating meaningful operating EBITA & free cash flow, investing in future growth, over delivering on cost savings, and adapting to unprecedented industry changes.

謝謝你，夏洛特。無論市場狀況如何，Anywhere Real Estate 都已證明我們有能力取得成果。2024 年，我們憑藉韌性和決心駕馭房地產市場，創造了有意義的營業 EBITA 和自由現金流，投資於未來成長，超額實現成本節約，並適應前所未有的行業變化。

In 2025, Anywhere Real estate will focus on executing our strategic agenda, reimagining how we operate and leveraging our competitive advantages to drive growth, outperform the market, and deliver value for our agents, franchisees, and shareholders. The future is full of opportunities, and Anywhere Real estate is ready to lead the industry to what's next. With that, we will take your questions.

2025 年，Anywhere Real Estate 將專注於執行我們的策略議程，重新構想我們的營運方式並利用我們的競爭優勢來推動成長、超越市場並為我們的代理商、特許經營商和股東創造價值。未來充滿機遇，Anywhere Real Estate 已準備好引領產業走向新階段。我們將回答您的問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Thank you.

謝謝。

Matthew Bouley, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的馬修‧布萊 (Matthew Bouley)。

Morning everyone. Thank you for taking the questions.

大家早安。感謝您回答這些問題。

I guess first I wanted to touch on the operating EBITA outlook for 2025, the $350 million. That's a simple question, just sort of what are some of the underlying assumptions you're making within that around, I guess transaction volumes, commission splits, commission rates, obviously we got the cost reductions in there, but just kind of any other pieces you can help us bridge to that EBITA.

我想先談談 2025 年的營業 EBITA 前景，即 3.5 億美元。這是一個簡單的問題，只是您在其中做出了哪些基本假設，我想是交易量、佣金分成、佣金率，顯然我們在其中降低了成本，但還有其他任何部分可以幫助您實現 EBITA。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, So, as I mentioned, the single biggest swing factor is going to be the housing market, and there's some pretty wide ranges in industry forecasts right now. So, we've had to take a bit of a call on that. We're going to watch it together. We'll update quarterly if anything changes in our assumptions on the housing market, but because the industry forecasts are so kind of wide as they normally are at this point in the year, I don't think it's smart to peg to any specific number.

是的，正如我所提到的，最大的影響因素將是房地產市場，目前行業預測的範圍相當廣泛。因此，我們必須對此做出一些判斷。我們要一起去看。如果我們對房地產市場的假設有任何變化，我們將每季更新一次，但由於行業預測範圍與每年這個時候的通常情況一樣廣，我認為固定在任何具體數字上並不明智。

But, Obviously we are giving guidance for the first time in a while and so you know we feel good about, where we sit today. We gave the numbers on cost savings; I think you can see over the last few years about the net impact of the cost savings. So, hopefully you can use some of the last year's analogs and some of the remarks I've made about, what the ad backs are and investments and inflation to impact that. We feel good about. Splits, we've had a lot of 11 consecutive quarters, around 80% for the commission splits.

但顯然這是我們很久以來第一次給出指引，所以你知道我們對目前的狀況感到很滿意。我們給出了成本節省的數字；我想您可以看到過去幾年成本節約的淨影響。因此，希望您可以使用去年的一些類似物和我所做的一些評論，關於廣告支援以及投資和通貨膨脹對此的影響。我們感覺很好。分割，我們已經連續 11 個季度進行了多次，佣金分割率約為 80%。

Those will obviously vary with volume as well, but again, 11 consecutive quarters is part of the reason, the consistency in that enabling us to put a pin on some guidance for this year. As far as ABCR, we're the only ones who do report that. And the numbers that we've reported have been relatively consistent since the changes in the process.

這些顯然也會隨著數量而變化，但同樣，連續 11 個季度是部分原因，這種一致性使我們能夠確定今年的一些指導。就 ABCR 而言，我們是唯一報導此事的人。自從流程發生變化以來，我們報告的數字一直相對一致。

If things change, we'll update things, but what we're seeing is relatively consistent on ABCR. So obviously a lot of volatility in housing in general, but I think the piece parts that we've laid out, there's a lot of there that has been pretty consistent. Our cost savings and commission splits specifically. And so, we'll continue to update you as the quarters go on, but, feeling good about where we ended the year and feeling good about our momentum as we start the year.

如果情況發生變化，我們會更新，但我們在 ABCR 上看到的情況相對一致。顯然，房屋市場總體波動很大，但我認為，從我們已經列出的部分來看，很多方面都是相當穩定的。我們的成本節省和佣金分成具體來說。因此，我們將在各個季度中繼續向您提供最新信息，但是，我們對今年結束時的業績感到滿意，對今年年初的勢頭感到滿意。

Okay, got it. I guess what I'm hearing is a lot of consistency, and I guess, correct me if I'm wrong, but second question, the comments you made around clear cooperation, kind of just when you talked about a relaxed clear cooperation, I guess my question is kind of what is that middle ground that you'd be looking for, kind of what exactly are you advocating for. And sort of how would you, how are you going to approach this, in the coming weeks and months?

好的，明白了。我想我所聽到的是很多一致性的意見，如果我錯了，請糾正我，但第二個問題，您圍繞明確合作所發表的評論，有點像您在談論輕鬆明確的合作時所說的那樣，我想我的問題是，您所尋求的中間立場是什麼，您到底在提倡什麼。那麼在接下來的幾週和幾個月裡，您將如何處理這個問題？

Thank You.

謝謝。

Yeah, so you know our brokerage leader [Sue anneko], she runs our own our franchise brokerage in a lot of ways she has the biggest job in real estate. She just did an editorial taking your question on exactly, trying to lay out, look. The most frustrating thing about the debate going on in our industry is it's like an extreme debate. Either it must stay the same or it must be totally repealed. And so, what Sue put out was some thoughts about, hey, there are places where you may want to relax it a little bit for sellers. It doesn't have to be 24 hours, etc.

是的，你知道我們的經紀業務負責人 [Sue anneko]，她在許多方面經營著我們自己的特許經紀業務，她在房地產領域從事著最重要的工作。她剛剛發表了一篇社論，準確地回答了你的問題，並試圖闡述。我們這個行業中正在進行的爭論最令人沮喪的是，它就像一場極端的爭論。它要么保持不變，要么被徹底廢除。因此，蘇提出了一些想法，嘿，有些地方可能想對賣家放寬一些限制。不必是 24 小時等等。

But you do need to preserve, the fact that over time you want all sellers and buyers to be able to see all the inventory. It's to both of their benefit. And so, we actually think the two extremes are both bad outcomes and so Sue put that out earlier this week. We'll continue to advocate for that, we're one of the only companies that has a dedicated government relations, team in DC, and obviously, our trade group has some issues and you know we've got to take more leadership.

但你確實需要保留這樣一個事實：隨著時間的推移，你希望所有賣家和買家都能夠看到所有的庫存。這對他們雙方都有利。因此，我們實際上認為這兩個極端都是不好的結果，蘇本週早些時候就提出了這一點。我們將繼續倡導這一點，我們是唯一在華盛頓特區擁有專門政府關係團隊的公司之一，顯然，我們的貿易集團存在一些問題，你知道我們必須發揮更多的領導作用。

But that's kind of where we're going, and I thought Sue's editorial was well done, Matt, and at the end of the day, the two extremes are both have some real issues with them. The current extreme and the mandatory nature is a problem.

但這就是我們要去的地方，我認為甦的社論寫得很好，馬特，到最後，這兩個極端都有一些真正的問題。目前的極端性和強制性是一個問題。

We don't like mandatory things. We've been telling people to relax mandatory rules for a number of years, and since people didn't listen to us on the participation rule, we all paid. Dearly for that, but on the flip side again, just a kind of total repeal and moving the world to private listings network, I don't think it's good for the consumer. So, we're in the relax, not repeal world. We've laid our position out in a couple of different forums now and we'll continue to advocate for that. But let's be very clear, like we are ready if you know if somebody wants, if the world goes to private listings.

我們不喜歡強制性的事。多年來，我們一直在呼籲人們放寬強制性規則，但由於人們在參與規則上不聽我們的，所以我們都付出了代價。對此我們深表遺憾，但另一方面，這只是徹底的廢除，並將世界轉向私人清單網絡，我認為這對消費者來說並不好。因此，我們處在一個放鬆的世界，而不是廢除的世界。我們已經在幾個不同的論壇上闡述了我們的立場，並將繼續倡導這一立場。但是，我們要明確一點，如果您知道如果有人想要，如果世界轉向私人上市，我們就已經做好準備。

You know we will not let our agents be disadvantaged, and we have more listings to, make into private listings than anybody does. I think that's a shortsighted way for our industry to go, but, we have got the technology ready, we have the people ready, we've thought through all the issues of it, and you know we're ready, but it's not our recommendation.

您知道，我們不會讓我們的代理商處於不利地位，而且我們擁有比任何人都多的房源，可以將其製作成私人房源。我認為這是我們行業的一種短視的做法，但是，我們已經準備好了技術，準備好了人員，我們已經考慮過所有問題，你知道我們已經準備好了，但這不是我們的建議。

Got it. Well, thank you. Ryan and Charlotte. Good luck, guys.

知道了。好吧，謝謝你。瑞安和夏洛特。祝你們好運。

Thank you.

謝謝。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Ryan McKeveny, Zelman.

瑞安·麥克凱文尼，澤爾曼。

Hey, thank you guys. Good morning. I wanted to ask on the franchise side, so it looks like the press release mentions you added 28 franchisees in for que and 67 in '24. I guess maybe if you could talk to pipeline or interest from franchisees heading into '25, and I guess I'm curious, is the pipeline or even those who have who have joined the network. Skewed towards established independent brokerages just converting to your brands, or are these kind of new players becoming franchisees? Thank you.

嘿，謝謝你們。早安.我想問一下特許經營方面的問題，新聞稿中好像提到您在 que 增加了 28 家特許經營商，在 '24 年增加了 67 家。我想也許您可以談談進入 25 年的特許經營商的管道或興趣，我很好奇，是頻道還是已經加入網路的人。是否傾向於成熟的獨立經紀公司轉向您的品牌，還是這些新參與者正在成為特許經營者？謝謝。

Yeah, look, we like the pipeline. It feels good, kind of, consistent with kind of the success we've had, I think the combination, Ryan, of the litigation.

是的，看，我們喜歡這條管道。感覺很好，有點，與我們取得的成功一致，我想這是訴訟的結合，瑞安。

In '23 and these practice changes in '24 have helped us on this dimension, right? The value proposition we offer to franchisees has a lot of good things in it, including the lead side, the brand side, some of the back office stuff, etc. But you know there are a lot of people who really, realize the power of kind of being part of someone who can both take care of you better in litigation. But also help navigate you know industry practice changes. So, we had, a number of existing franchisees, obviously join us and that happens today. We just added some new ones in multiple states in the last two weeks that have all been public.

23年和24年的這些實踐變化對我們在這個方面提供了幫助，對嗎？我們向特許經營商提供的價值主張有很多好處，包括主導方面、品牌方面、一些後台事務等等。而且還可以幫助您了解行業實踐的變化。所以，顯然，我們已經有許多現有的特許經營商加入了我們，而這就是今天發生的事情。過去兩週，我們剛剛在多個州添加了一些新的，這些都已公開。

And so that's been helpful. And then others have seen things, we've had people join us because they've liked this upward title thing that we've done, right, as they're looking for new opportunities, they can get into that if they're part of our ecosystem. And so, while we always have a few people who kind of start out from nothing as franchisees, when we talk about the 67 or the 28, we're talking about, established companies of different sizes including the 400 agent Corcoran. Franchisee down in DC now who you know have joined our company.

這很有幫助。然後其他人看到了一些東西，有人加入了我們，因為他們喜歡我們所做的這種向上的頭銜，對的，因為他們正在尋找新的機會，如果他們是我們生態系統的一部分，他們就可以參與其中。因此，雖然我們總是有一些人白手起家成為特許經營商，但當我們談論 67 或 28 家時，我們談論的是不同規模的成熟公司，包括擁有 400 名代理商的 Corcoran 公司。您認識的位於華盛頓特區的特許經營商現已加入我們的公司。

That's very helpful. Thank you. And Charlotte, just I think a clarification, I kind of missed this and I'll check the transcript later, but maybe you can remind us. I think you made a comment about a tax refund that was expected last year that's now going to come this year and potentially that is a benefit to EBITA. I might have totally mis misheard that, but maybe you can revisit what that comment.

這非常有幫助。謝謝。夏洛特，我想澄清一下，我有點錯過了這一點，我稍後會查看記錄，但也許你可以提醒我們。我覺得你剛才談到了預計去年到賬的退稅，而這筆退稅今年將會到賬，這可能會給 EBITA 帶來好處。我可能完全聽錯了，但也許你可以重新看看那條評論。

It's just the benefits of free cash flow. It doesn't impact the EBITA, so. It's an explanation that like we had given guidance that we expected our free cash flow in 2024, excluding one-time items and other things to be about $100 million and the tax refund was anticipated last year and that's the reason why we now delivered free cash flow at 70 and it's just a timing thing and we've even already gotten notice from the IRS that we should expect part of that already in the first quarter. So it's just a free cash flow timing thing, nothing to do with EBITA.

這只是自由現金流的好處。它不會影響 EBITA，所以。這是一種解釋，就像我們給出的指導一樣，我們預計 2024 年的自由現金流（不包括一次性項目和其他項目）約為 1 億美元，並且去年預計有退稅，這就是為什麼我們現在實現 70% 的自由現金流，這只是一個時間問題，我們甚至已經收到美國國稅局的通知，我們應該在第一季度就預期其中的一部分。所以這只是一個自由現金流時間問題，與 EBITA 無關。

Okay, and on the on the guide for free cash flow, the 70 year reference is kind of, ballpark the target we should be thinking about for '25.

好的，關於自由現金流的指南，70 年的參考期大致是我們 25 年應該考慮的目標。

So, I did say similar to prior year, so yes.

所以，我確實說過與去年類似，是的。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Excluding those one-time items that Alicia referenced in her opening remarks.

不包括艾莉西亞在開場白中提到的一次性物品。

Right, okay, got it. Thank you very much.

好的，好的，知道了。非常感謝。

Thanks. Sure.

謝謝。當然。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

John Campbell, Stephens.

約翰·坎貝爾，史蒂芬斯。

Hey guys, good morning. A great close of the year. Sure, Ryan, I appreciate your clarity and the clear message on CCP. Just assuming that you know for some reason consumers end up being okay with the private networks and there's greater fragmentation, obviously you called out your industry leading number of listings, so that's a great start.

大家早安。美好的一年即將結束。當然，瑞安，我很欣賞你關於中共的清晰度和清晰訊息。只是假設您知道由於某種原因消費者最終對私人網絡感到滿意並且存在更大的碎片化，顯然您會列出行業領先的列表數量，所以這是一個很好的開始。

You also mentioned a second ago that you have the technology ready. Obviously, you're The largest competitor out there has pushed a new consumer app and seems to be lining up their site, as more of a portal. I appreciate from a competitive standpoint you might not want to show all your cards here, but maybe just talk high level how you look to leverage your leading position.

您剛才也提到，您已經準備好技術了。顯然，您最大的競爭對手已經推出了一款新的消費者應用程序，並且似乎正在將他們的網站打造為一個門戶網站。我理解，從競爭的角度來看，你可能不想在這裡亮出所有的底牌，但也許只是從高層次談談你如何利用你的領先地位。

Well, look, I mean, it, you're right, we're not going to show our cards on this call. We'll show it to our agent’s franchisees first and, then in the market, but look, like the world's not that complicated, right? If you want to do a private listing network, it's just not that complicated, so you could map out exactly what we would, you know.

嗯，看，我的意思是，你是對的，我們不會在這個電話中亮出底牌。我們會先向我們的代理商和加盟商展示，然後再推向市場，但你看，這個世界並沒有那麼複雜，對吧？如果你想建立一個私人上市網絡，那就沒那麼複雜了，所以你可以準確地規劃出我們要做的事情。

Provide and have and kind of [corral], across our own franchise brokers network and then how, agents and consumers would interact with it. So it's not that complicated and again my thesis and my real public message is both, we think that's a bad way for the industry to go, but if it goes there, we're going to be, not only are we ready, but we think we do frankly pretty well relative to anybody.

在我們自己的特許經營經紀人網絡中提供並擁有某種[圍欄]，然後代理商和消費者將如何與之互動。所以事情並沒有那麼複雜，而且我的論點和我真正的公開信息是，我們認為這對行業來說不是一個好的發展方向，但如果真的走向那個方向，我們不僅做好了準備，而且我們認為坦率地說，我們比任何人都做得相當好。

So that's a place that we're just, very focused on, and, but again, over time if consumer if buyers can't. Easily get access to all the inventory. I just think that's bad for sellers in terms of getting the best price on your house. I also think there's some fair housing issues on that. And if you're a seller and you can't get access to how other homes sold at what price, it hurts your ability to price your home.

所以這是我們非常關注的領域，但是隨著時間的推移，如果消費者或買家不能。輕鬆存取所有庫存。我只是認為這對賣家來說不利，因為他們無法獲得最優的價格。我還認為其中存在一些公平住房問題。如果您是賣家，卻無法了解其他房屋的銷售價格，那麼這會損害您為自己的房屋定價的能力。

So again, I just don't think it's a great place for the industry to go, but we obviously have to, be prepared, and my message is not only are we prepared, but you know we've got assets that would be. Advantageous on all of our competitors we believe just starting with the number of listings.

所以，我再說一遍，我認為這對行業來說不是一個好地方，但我們顯然必須做好準備，我想說的是，我們不僅做好了準備，而且你知道我們還有可以做好準備的資產。我們相信，只要從清單數量開始，我們就能比所有競爭對手更具優勢。

Yeah, that's a great color. I appreciate all that. And then Charlotte, back to the $350 million [above] guidance, you mentioned the wide dispersion in the industry forecast. We're certainly seeing that as well. But just given how tied the P&L is to housing, I'm thinking you probably do have an internal forecast you're going with. I'm hoping you can maybe shed some light on that or maybe just talk to a rule of thumb sensitivity for, I don't know, every 100 bits or so of volume swings.

是的，顏色很棒。我對此表示感謝。然後夏洛特，回到 3.5 億美元的指導方針，您提到了行業預測的廣泛差異。我們當然也看到了這一點。但考慮到損益表與住房的密切關係，我想您可能確實有內部預測。我希望您能對此作出一些解釋，或者只是談談經驗法則敏感度，我不知道，每 100 位左右的音量波動。

Yeah, we're not really coming off of what we've done in the past around, sort of like the $15 million mark for the percentage of change and growth. It does depend on the unit volume and the lower the units, sort of the lower the impact is because of title, but, if you think about. I think you can actually probably if you look through the other assumptions, I've given you could probably even come up to what our own internal forecast is within a couple of percentage points. So.

是的，我們並沒有真正擺脫過去所取得的成就，例如 1500 萬美元的百分比變化和成長目標。這確實取決於單位體積，單位越低，影響就越小，因為標題是這樣的，但是，如果你仔細想想。我認為，如果您看一下我給出的其他假設，您實際上可能甚至可以得出我們自己的內部預測值，誤差在幾個百分點以內。所以。

And John, just to comment on your [ma's] question here because you know we believe in you guys, just know that we believe in you. And you know this is the first time Charlotte and I have ever in the month of February given you a full year number, right? In the past we've always kind of gone with the philosophy of, hey, we're going to give you as many of the piece parts as we can, you put your volume forecast in, do the math, and you come up with a number.

約翰，我只是想對你的問題做一下評論，因為你知道我們相信你們，我們相信你們。您知道嗎，這是夏洛特和我第一次在二月給您全年數據，對吧？過去，我們一直秉持這樣的理念：嘿，我們會為您提供盡可能多的零件，您輸入您的數量預測，進行計算，然後得出一個數字。

Right, this year we thought, we've heard your feedback, others, and we thought let's try something a little bit different, which is, we're giving you our view, and as Charlotte said, we'll update it every quarter. why, this housing market's the thing if you look back in time, that kind of really changes the world between February and the full year results often. But we hope this is, interesting and helpful, and again, the nice thing is we have, 3 more bites at the apple to update you as kind of the year evolved, but you know it is a different approach and you know it'll be very to see your feedback on, does it work better than what we had been doing on this dimension.

好的，今年我們認為，我們聽取了您的反饋，其他人的反饋，我們認為讓我們嘗試一些不同的東西，也就是說，我們向您提供我們的觀點，正如夏洛特所說，我們將每季度更新一次。為什麼？但我們希望這是有趣和有幫助的，而且，令人高興的是，隨著今年的發展，我們又進行了 3 次嘗試來向您更新信息，但您知道這是一種不同的方法，而且您知道我們會非常高興地看到您的反饋，它是否比我們在這個維度上所做的更好。

But we're excited to try it, but it, but we also recognize it might leave you a teen a bit frustrated that, we're not giving you every single piece to add up to it, but like, that's a little more of turning around in the old way. So, anyway, we're excited and we believe you guys will do great with it.

但我們很興奮嘗試它，但是，但我們也意​​識到它可能會讓青少年感到有點沮喪，因為我們沒有給你每一個部分來補充它，但是，這更像是回到老路上。所以，無論如何，我們很興奮，我們相信你們會做得很好。

Appreciate that, guys.

感謝你們。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Tommy McJoynt, KBW.

湯米·麥喬因特，KBW。

Hey, good morning guys, thanks for taking the questions. Yeah, so Ryan, last quarter you gave some interesting commentary around, homebuyers given the choice of signing different agent engagement agreements, be it to look at one single house or, part of a longer home buying journey. Do you have an update on any of that or any data points around that and kind of what those compensation agreements look like?

嘿，大家早安，感謝你們回答問題。是的，Ryan，上個季度你給出了一些有趣的評論，購房者可以選擇簽署不同的代理商聘用協議，無論是查看一套房子還是作為更長的購房旅程的一部分。您是否有關於其中任何一項的更新資訊或相關數據點，以及那些補償協議是什麼樣的？

Yeah, sure, happy to do it partly because this is a chance to say, I was a little bit wrong, you know we rolled out these kind of 5 different buyer agreements, Tommy, and you talked to some of them, right, single house, multiple house, just go on a home tour and then kind of the classic, 6 months. We're an exclusive relationship agreement, right? And part of the reason we rolled out the 5 is we weren't sure how consumers would react and we didn't want people to just have a yes no choice on one agreement.

是的，當然，很高興這樣做，部分原因是這是一個機會來表明，我有點錯了，你知道我們推出了這 5 種不同的買家協議，湯米，你和其中一些人談過了，對吧，單戶住宅，多戶住宅，只是進行一次家庭參觀，然後是經典的 6 個月。我們是獨家關係協議，對嗎？我們推出 5 的原因之一是我們不確定消費者會如何反應，我們不希望人們在一份協議上僅有「是」或「否」的選擇。

We wanted them some options and the data not just into November when we last talked, or excuse me October when we last talked, the data through January is it's almost all people signing the 6 month exclusive agreement. North of 80% of our buyers are signing that agreement, and that just blows me away and it's awesome.

我們希望他們能夠獲得一些選擇，而且數據不僅限於我們上次談話時的 11 月份的數據，也不僅限於我們上次談話時的 10 月份的數據，截至 1 月份的數據幾乎所有人都簽署了 6 個月的獨家協議。超過 80% 的買家都簽署了該協議，這讓我非常震驚，也非常棒。

And so, frankly we're probably going to end up discontinuing some of the other ones that just don't get much usage or much traction because consumers aren't really interested in them and let's reduce the complexity and all that kind of stuff and it's a testament to the power of. The value that agents provide, and I don't think that stat, by the way, is unique to anywhere. I don't have anyone else's data, but when I talk to, agents at other firms and I talk to, people in our industry, I think other people are getting, using those same things, more than 50% of the time.

因此，坦白說，我們可能最終會停止一些其他沒有太多使用或吸引力的產品，因為消費者對它們並不真正感興趣，讓我們降低複雜性和所有這類東西，這是對力量的證明。代理商提供的價值，順便說一句，我不認為這個統計數據在任何地方都是獨一無二的。我沒有其他人的數據，但是當我與其他公司的代理商以及我們行業的人士交談時，我認為其他人有超過 50% 的時間也在使用相同的東西。

And it comes back to, I do think that the agents are doing a very good job articulating their value to buyers and going on that journey to kind of make these people's lives better together. And so, the data has only gotten stronger on the use of the 6 months exclusive since I talked to you in October, and we looked at it through. Mid January or so is the last time I looked at it, late January data kind of thing.

歸根結底，我確實認為代理商在向買家表達他們的價值方面做得很好，並且致力於讓這些人的生活更加美好。因此，自從我 10 月與您交談並對其進行了仔細研究以來，有關 6 個月獨家使用情況的數據才變得更加強大。我最後一次查看它是在一月中旬左右，還有一月下旬的數據。

And so, really excited by that, still glad we were thoughtful about trying the different things to be prepared. You never know how the world's going to go, but it's gone in a way that's really consistent with agents adding a lot of value and communicating their value well, and consumers have voted with their feet. Very excited.

因此，我們對此感到非常興奮，同時很高興我們能夠深思熟慮地嘗試不同的事情以做好準備。你永遠不知道世界將會如何發展，但它的發展方式與代理商增加大量價值和很好地傳達他們的價值的方式是一致的，而消費者也用腳投票。非常興奮。

Got it. And just on the same point, I'm sure it's a bit tough to track, but do you have any sense around if consumers are shopping around a bit more, maybe perhaps taking, the 6 month exclusive agreement from an anywhere agent comparing it to, competitors when they're beginning this process or any data around that?

知道了。就同​​一件事而言，我確信這有點難以追踪，但您是否了解消費者是否會貨比三家，也許會從任何地方的代理商那裡獲得 6 個月的獨家協議，並將其與競爭對手進行比較，當他們開始這個過程時，或者有任何相關數據嗎？

I think the shopping is no different than it used to be, but I think the shopping happens before you get to the point you're talking about, right? I don't think anybody's Take, I don't think a lot of people are taking two physical agreements and comparing them and then picking, right? I think consumers do a lot of their agent networking and interviewing and everything before they get to that conversation.

我認為購物與以前沒有什麼不同，但我認為購物發生在你到達你談論的重點之前，對嗎？我不認為任何人會做出決定，我不認為很多人會拿兩份實物協議進行比較然後進行選擇，對嗎？我認為消費者在進行對話之前會與代理商進行大量的交流和麵試等等。

Right, and then the people who already have relationships with agents from my talking to agents. They haven't seen a difference in their existing relationships, looking at other people in terms of like. The percent of people they do repeat business with kind of thing. So, I think the shopping happens, but I think the shopping happens more upstream than at the kind of let's negotiate and sign the buyer agreement point map or Tommy, excuse me.

是的，然後是我和經紀人交談中提到的那些已經和經紀人有關係的人。他們沒有看到他們現有的關係有什麼不同，而是以相似的角度看待其他人。他們重複做生意的人數比例。所以，我認為購物會發生，但我認為購物發生在更上游的地方，而不是讓我們協商並簽署買方協議點圖或湯米，對不起。

Got it. Okay. And then just quickly switching over, you sound a little more constructive on the acquisition opportunity in the year ahead. Did you envision that getting funded with, equity or debt, or is there enough cash flow generation, not going to some of those one-off items and eventual debt reductions to fund those.

知道了。好的。然後快速轉換一下，你對未來一年的收購機會聽起來更有建設性。您是否設想過透過股權或債務來獲得資金，或者是否有足夠的現金流，而不是用於某些一次性項目並最終透過減債來為這些項目提供資金。

Look, I mentioned our liquidity. I don't think we're going to be an equity buyer. I think we're a cash buyer if we're going to buy stuff typically, we got tons of liquidity as Charlotte kind of talked about, we have positive free cash flow. The other thing is, remember, and I referenced this, when you look at our ability to combine with others, especially in the brokerage area.

瞧，我提到了我們的流動性。我認為我們不會成為股權買家。我認為，如果我們通常要購買東西，我們就是現金買家，正如夏洛特所說的那樣，我們擁有大量流動資金，我們有正的自由現金流。另一件事是，記住，我提到過這一點，當你看到我們與他人結合的能力時，特別是在經紀領域。

We have the most synergies, and those synergies have two interesting things. One is you can get a bunch of them in year one in these deals, right? The other thing, from a covenant standpoint, our covenants give us very good benefits to synergies of deals even if they're unrealized.

我們擁有最多的協同效應，這些協同效應有兩點有趣的。一是你可以透過這些交易在第一年就獲得很多東西，對嗎？另一件事，從契約的角度來看，即使尚未實現，我們的契約也會為交易的協同效應帶來非常好的利益。

So, They've got to be good deals, of course, and we've seen some deals in the market that we wouldn't do, but boy, yeah, we think we could do some good stuff, especially as kind of the market feels like it's changing, after going into a third tough year, you can see a little more no mass happening, in not just brokerage but in some adjacent services, and you can definitely see it in prop tech. I get that call. Every week, basically. Every 2 weeks, Multiple times month.

因此，當然，它們必須是好的交易，我們已經看到市場上的一些交易我們不會做，但是，是的，我們認為我們可以做一些好事，特別是當市場感覺正在發生變化時，在進入第三個艱難的一年之後，你可以看到更多的沒有大規模發生的事件，不僅僅是在經紀業務中，而且在一些道具領域看到它，你肯定可以在一些相鄰的服務中看到它。我接到了那通電話。基本上每週都有。每兩週一次，每月多次。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Nahom Tesfazghi with JP Morgan.

摩根大通的 Nahom Tesfazghi。

Hey guys. Thanks for taking the question. Just one on my end, and I guess going back to the guidance, how much does the adjustment for, non-cash compensation and legal matters impact the 2025 guidance of $350 million? I guess another way to say it, I guess they put is how much does that help the guide, compared to the old definition.

嘿，大家好。感謝您回答這個問題。我只想說一句，回到指引上，非現金薪酬和法律事務的調整對 2025 年 3.5 億美元的指引有多大影響？我想換句話說，他們想表達的是，與舊定義相比，這對指南有多大幫助。

So I think what you'll see in the press release is the prior two years it's a relatively small number and in 2023 that number was 12, I believe, on the full year and 17 in 2024, so it's not a material impact in the past two years.

因此，我認為您會在新聞稿中看到，前兩年這個數字相對較小，而到 2023 年，這個數字是全年 12 起，到 2024 年是 17 起，所以對過去兩年沒有重大影響。

And the way I think about it, just looking at that information in the press releases. 24 is a pretty tough housing market, but even with all those adjustments that you mentioned, we were able to grow our EBITA by $35 million, and then in '25, it's $60 million of EBITA Growth with all those, adjustments, apples to apples now. So it's a kind of $60 million growth apples to apples on that stuff, so there's no. Headwind or tailwind in the $60 million growth.

我的想法是，只是查看新聞稿中的信息。 24 年的房地產市場相當艱難，但即使經過您提到的所有這些調整，我們仍然能夠將 EBITA 增長 3500 萬美元，然後在 25 年，經過所有這些調整，EBITA 增長達到 6000 萬美元，現在情況完全一致。所以這是一種 6000 萬美元的增長，所以沒有。6,000 萬美元的成長面臨逆風還是順風？

Got it that makes sense thank you.

明白了，這很有道理，謝謝。

This concludes the question and answer session and we'll conclude today's conference call.

問答環節到此結束，我們將結束今天的電話會議。

Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.

感謝您的加入。您現在可以斷開連線。