Hallador Energy Co (HNRG) 2024 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Thank you for attending today's Hallador Energy First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. My name is Megan, and I'll be your moderator for today's call. All lines will be muted during the presentation portion of the call with an opportunity for questions and answers at the end. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. I would now like to pass the conference over to Becky Palumbo, Investor Relations with Hallador Energy. Please go ahead.

午安.感謝您參加今天的 Hallador Energy 2024 年第一季財報電話會議。我叫梅根，我將擔任今天電話會議的主持人。在通話的演示部分，所有線路將被靜音，最後有機會提問和回答。如果您想提問，請按電話鍵盤上的星號一。我現在想將會議交給 Hallador Energy 投資者關係部的 Becky Palumbo。請繼續。

Thank you, Dan, and thank you, everybody, for taking the time today to join our discussion on our first quarter 2024 earnings. With me today are Brent Bilsland, our President and CEO, and our newly appointed CFO, Marjorie Hargrave yesterday, afternoon, we released our first quarter 2024 financial and operating results in a press release that is now on our website. Today, we will discuss our results as well as our perspective on current market conditions and outlook for 2024. Following our prepared remarks, we will open the call up to answer your questions.

謝謝 Dan，也謝謝大家今天抽出時間參加我們關於 2024 年第一季財報的討論。今天與我在一起的有我們的總裁兼首席執行官布倫特·比爾斯蘭(Brent Bilsland) 以及我們新任命的首席財務官馬喬裡·哈格雷夫(Marjorie Hargrave) 昨天下午，我們在一份新聞稿中發布了2024 年第一季的財務和營運業績，該新聞稿現已在我們的網站上發布。今天，我們將討論我們的業績以及我們對當前市場狀況和 2024 年前景的看法。在我們準備好的發言之後，我們將開始電話會議來回答您的問題。

Before beginning a reminder that some of our remarks today may include forward-looking statements subject to a variety of risks, uncertainties and assumptions contained in our filings from time to time with the SEC and are also reflected in yesterday's press release. While these forward-looking statements are based on information currently available to us, if one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize or if our underlying assumptions prove incorrect, actual results may vary materially from those we projected or expect In providing these remarks, he has no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, unless required by law to do so. We plan on filing our Form 10 Q later this afternoon. And with the preliminaries out of the way. I will now turn the call over to Margie.

在開始之前提醒一下，我們今天的一些言論可能包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到我們不時向SEC 提交的文件中包含的各種風險、不確定性和假設的影響，並且也在昨天的新聞稿中得到了反映。雖然這些前瞻性陳述是基於我們目前掌握的信息，但如果這些風險或不確定性中的一項或多項成為現實，或者如果我們的基本假設被證明是不正確的，則實際結果可能與我們預測或預期的結果有重大差異。我們計劃今天下午晚些時候提交 10 Q 表格。預賽結束後。我現在將把電話轉給瑪姬。

Thank you, Becky, and good afternoon, everyone. First off, I'd like to personally thank Larry Martin for all of his hard work at Hallador and for making this transition. So smooth and enjoyable. Larry will be on the call to assist in answering questions for this quarter.

謝謝你，貝基，大家下午好。首先，我要親自感謝拉里·馬丁 (Larry Martin) 在 Hallador 所做的所有辛勤工作以及實現這一轉變。如此順利和愉快。拉里（Larry）將接聽電話，協助回答本季的問題。

Before we get started, I'd like to define adjusted EBITDA to refresh everyone's memory. Adjusted EBITDA is a sum of operating cash flow, less the effects of certain subsidiaries and equity method investment activity, plus bank interest less the effects of working capital period changes plus cash paid on asset retirement obligation, reclamation plus other operations.

在開始之前，我想先定義一下調整後的 EBITDA，以加深大家的記憶。調整後 EBITDA 是經營現金流量減去某些子公司和權益法投資活動的影響，加上銀行利息減去營運資金期限變動的影響加上資產報廢義務、回收和其他業務所支付的現金的總和。

For the first quarter of 2024, Hallador incurred a net loss of $1.7 million, which equates to a loss of $0.05 per share for both basic and diluted earnings. Our adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $6.8 million and our operating cash flow for the quarter was $16.4 million. Of this $16.4 million. We used $14.5 million to reduce our debt and at quarter end our funded debt balance was $77 million and our net debt balance was $75.4 million. We also had $18.6 million of LCs outstanding as of March 31, 2024. Our liquidity at quarter end was $39.5 million and our debt to adjusted EBITDA or leverage ratio was 1.58 times well within our covenant of 2.25 times.

2024 年第一季，Hallador 淨虧損 170 萬美元，相當於基本收益和稀釋收益每股虧損 0.05 美元。本季調整後的 EBITDA 為 680 萬美元，本季的營運現金流為 1,640 萬美元。其中 1640 萬美元。我們使用了 1,450 萬美元來減少債務，截至季度末，我們的融資債務餘額為 7,700 萬美元，淨債務餘額為 7,540 萬美元。截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日，我們還有 1,860 萬美元的未償信用證。季度末我們的流動資金為 3950 萬美元，我們的債務與調整後 EBITDA 或槓桿比率為 1.58 倍，完全符合我們 2.2​​5 倍的承諾。

With that, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Brent Bilsland for key margins.

這樣，我會將電話轉給我們的執行長布倫特·比爾斯蘭 (Brent Bilsland)，詢問關鍵利潤。

Throughout the first quarter, we continued our progress on transitioning the focus of Hallador from a coal production company to an independent power producer during the first three months of 2024 our electric operations, revenues exceeded that of our coal operations revenue. Additionally, we were successful in adding approximately $138 million in forward energy and capacity sales, growing our electric operations forward sales book to approximately $657 million as of March 31, 2024. This represents approximately 44% of Hallador total contracted forward energy capacity and coal sales through 2029 and roughly one of them of roughly $1.5 billion. However, we believe future forward sales from our electric operations will soon eclipse our forward sales from our coal operations since January, we have evaluated and continue to evaluate several major power and capacity sales opportunities, including one proposal made to us that is contracted will result in a more than $1 billion worth of potential forward power sales. We continue to see strong indicators that demand and pricing remain on an upward trend according to the Indiana Business Journal in the last 12 months, there have been eight new data centers and or bitcoin mining facility projects announced in the state of Indiana where our Ameren power plant is located. We have also seen a major utility amend their integrated resource plan and publicly state that had previously underestimated new electricity demand growth by as much as 17 times. Myself has released information arguing that their capacity reserve margin, meaning the amount of excess generating capacity in their system could go negative by as soon as next year. Monitoring the equity markets further strengthens our belief that investors and other IPPs are also anticipating similar increases in power demand demonstrated most clearly through the more than doubling of market capitalizations of at least two of those IPPs across the previous 12 months in support of our expectation that Hallador power sales will continue to exceed our traditional Sunrise Coal subsidiary. We anticipate changing Hallador as SIC code to 49 11 electric services from 1220 bituminous coal producer in the future.

在整個第一季度，我們在將哈拉多的重點從煤炭生產公司轉變為獨立電力生產商方面繼續取得進展，在 2024 年前三個月，我們的電力業務收入超過了煤炭業務收入。此外，截至 2024 年 3 月 31 日，我們成功增加了約 1.38 億美元的遠期能源和產能銷售，將我們的電力營運遠期銷售帳簿增加至約 6.57 億美元。這約佔哈拉多到 2029 年合約遠期能源產能和煤炭銷售總額的 44%，其中約 15 億美元。然而，我們相信，自一月份以來，我們電力業務的未來遠期銷售將很快超過我們煤炭業務的遠期銷售，我們已經評估並將繼續評估幾個主要的電力和容量銷售機會，包括向我們提出的一項已簽訂合約的建議將導致潛在的遠期電力銷售價值超過 10 億美元。根據《印第安納商業雜誌》，過去12 個月，我們繼續看到強勁的指標表明需求和價格仍呈上升趨勢，我們的Ameren 電力所在的印第安納州宣布了8 個新的數據中心和/或比特幣挖礦設施項目工廠位於。我們也看到一家大型公用事業公司修改了其綜合資源計劃，並公開表示先前低估了新增電力需求成長高達 17 倍。我自己曾發布資訊稱，他們的容量儲備裕度，這意味著他們系統中的過剩發電量最快明年可能會變成負值。對股票市場的監測進一步增強了我們的信念，即投資者和其他獨立發電廠也預計電力需求也會出現類似增長，這最清楚地體現在過去12 個月內至少兩個獨立發電廠的市值翻了一番以上，這支持了我們的預期： Hallador 的電力銷售將繼續超過我們傳統的 Sunrise Coal 子公司。我們預計未來 1220 個煙煤生產商將 Hallador 作為 SIC 代碼更改為 49 11 電力服務。

On the electric side of the business, indicators for future power pricing appear much healthier than we have seen in recent months. We believe these indicators are supported by both our forward power sales book pricing and third party future power curves. Additionally, natural gas future prices are in contango, meaning future gas prices exceed spot gas prices that have been depressing overall power prices for the last several quarters. As we discussed last quarter, the dynamics of the natural gas market paired with the non-standard mild weather throughout the Midwest impacted pricing and our power plant dispatch rates thus far in 2024 for future prices seem to indicate improvement on both these fronts, which we view as a positive for our go forward operations in April, we also lost a targeted request for proposals for port power demand supporting new development at our Ameren powerplant responses are due in mid-May, but early indications point to a high level of interest. They are the RFP is available on our website for any interested parties that did not already receive the information. Our goal is for Hallador power to generate approximately 1.5 million megawatt hours on a quarterly basis, which equates to approximately 6 million megawatt hours annually during the first quarter, Hallador power generated 816,000 megawatt hours or 54% of our target despite an average price of $41.90. The favorable pricing is a result of experiencing sales prices as high as $250 per megawatt hour for limited times during the quarter, balanced against several days of pricing below our variable cost to produce on forward selling capacity, we target annual sales of around $65 million to help offset our fixed annual costs at the plant, which are currently approximated at around $60 million annually. We have already sold a large portion of our future capacity, which we believe makes us our skews. We have already sold a large portion of our future capacity, which we believe makes us of our forward capacity sales goal readily attainable for the next several years. As a condition of acquiring the Maren power plant, we agreed to sell 1.66 million megawatt hours of energy in 2024 and 1.6 million megawatt hours in 2025 at $34 per megawatt hour to the plant seller, representing 27% of our annual 6 million megawatt hour goal. Since this original transaction, we have been successful in selling over 5 million megawatt hours of energy to third parties at an average price of approximately $54 per megawatt hour over the years 2024 through 2029. This roughly $20 per megawatt hour jump and average pricing has us very excited about future sales. During the first quarter, our variable costs at the plant were $31.88 per megawatt hour. While we believe that we can typically achieve lower per megawatt hour costs, low energy prices during the quarter necessitated that we run our plant at slower speeds and resulted in more frequent than normal starts and stops to avoid selling below our costs. Our cost structure running in this manner is less fuel efficient than if we were able to consistently generate at 6 million megawatt hour pace, which we think could lower variable costs by as much as 10%.

在電力業務方面，未來電價指標似乎比我們近幾個月看到的要健康得多。我們相信這些指標得到了我們的遠期售電手冊定價和第三方未來電力曲線的支持。此外，天然氣期貨價格處於升水狀態，這意味著未來天然氣價格超過現貨天然氣價格，這在過去幾季壓低了整體電價。正如我們上季度討論的那樣，天然氣市場的動態加上整個中西部地區非標準的溫和天氣影響了定價，而我們在2024 年迄今為止的未來價格的發電廠調度率似乎表明這兩個方面都有所改善，我們儘管我們認為這對我們4 月份的前進業務是積極的，但我們還失去了支持Ameren 發電廠新開發的港口電力需求建議書的有針對性的徵求意見書，該建議書將於5 月中旬提交，但早期跡象表明人們對此有很高的興趣。尚未收到資訊的任何有興趣方均可在我們的網站上取得 RFP。我們的目標是Hallador 電力每季發電量約150 萬兆瓦時，相當於第一季每年發電量約600 萬兆瓦時，Hallador 電力發電量為816,000 兆瓦時，即我們目標的54%，儘管平均價格為41.90 美元。有利的定價是由於在本季度的有限時間內經歷了高達每兆瓦時250 美元的銷售價格，與遠期銷售產能的生產定價低於我們的可變成本的幾天相比，我們的目標是年銷售額約為6500 萬美元幫助抵消我們工廠的固定年度成本，目前每年約為 6000 萬美元。我們已經出售了未來產能的很大一部分，我們認為這使我們出現了偏差。我們已經出售了未來產能的很大一部分，我們相信這使我們可以在未來幾年輕鬆實現遠期產能銷售目標。作為收購Maren 發電廠的條件，我們同意以每兆瓦時34 美元的價格向電廠賣方出售2024 年166 萬兆瓦時的能源和2025 年160 萬兆瓦時的能源，占我們年度600 萬兆瓦時目標的27% 。自從這項最初的交易以來，我們在 2024 年至 2029 年期間已成功向第三方出售了超過 500 萬兆瓦時的能源，平均價格約為每兆瓦時 54 美元。每兆瓦時大約 20 美元的跳躍和平均價格讓我們對未來的銷售感到非常興奮。第一季度，我們工廠的變動成本為每兆瓦時 31.88 美元。雖然我們相信我們通常可以實現更低的每兆瓦時成本，但本季的低能源價格迫使我們以較慢的速度運行工廠，並導致比正常啟動和停止更頻繁，以避免低於成本的銷售。我們以這種方式運作的成本結構比我們能夠持續以 600 萬兆瓦時的速度發電的燃料效率要低，我們認為這可以將可變成本降低多達 10%。

Shifting to the coal side of the business, as previously discussed in late February, our coal operations segment undertook an initiative designed to strengthen our financial and operational efficiency and create significant operational savings and higher margins in our coal segment. This step helps to advance our transition from a company primarily focused on coal production to a more resilient and diversified IPP. As part of this initiative, we idled production at our higher cost Prosperity mine and substantially idle production at the free Leeville mine with minimal production until current reclamation projects are completed in late May or early June of this year.

正如二月底所討論的那樣，轉向煤炭業務方面，我們的煤炭營運部門採取了一項舉措，旨在加強我們的財務和營運效率，並在煤炭部門創造顯著的營運成本節約和更高的利潤。這項措施有助於推動我們從一家主要專注於煤炭生產的公司轉型為更具彈性和多元化的獨立發電廠。作為該計劃的一部分，我們暫停了成本較高的 Prosperity 礦山的生產，並大幅閒置了自由 Leeville 礦山的生產，產量極低，直到目前的填海項目於今年 5 月底或 6 月初完成。

As we have previously said, we expect this initiative to reduce our capital investment for coal production in 2024 by approximately $10 million. We also focus our seven units of underground equipment on four units of our lowest cost production at our Oaktown mine. We also reduced our workforce by approximately 110 employees. Mining costs for the quarter were $53.38 per ton. Our Videotel, we saw mining costs in March decrease into the 30s on a per tonne basis. While there are several factors that impacted this cost reduction we continue to monitor operations and strategic initiatives to better understand the longevity of these favorable conditions. Historically, Sunrise Coal has generated approximately 6 million tons of coal annually following the restructuring we expect Sunrise to produce roughly 3.5 million tons of coal on an annualized basis for 2024. If market conditions warrant. Our current operations are capable of producing at a 4.5 million ton annualized pace this year.

正如我們之前所說，我們預計這項措施將使我們 2024 年煤炭生產的資本投資減少約 1,000 萬美元。我們也將 7 台地下設備集中用於 Oaktown 礦場的 4 台成本最低的生產設備。我們也減少了約 110 名員工。本季採礦成本為每噸 53.38 美元。我們的 Videotel 看到 3 月的採礦成本每噸下降了 30 多美元。儘管有多個因素影響了成本降低，但我們將繼續監控營運和策略舉措，以更好地了解這些有利條件的持續時間。從歷史上看，重組後，Sunrise Coal 每年生產約 600 萬噸煤炭，我們預計 2024 年 Sunrise 的年煤炭產量約為 350 萬噸。如果市場條件允許的話。我們目前的業務今年的年產量可達 450 萬噸。

We have also secured supplemental coal from third party suppliers at favorable prices. This allows us to diversify self production supply risk and provides us with additional flexibility in our sales portfolio, the optionality to obtain low cost tons either internally or for ore from third parties, while capturing upward swings in the commodity markets for coal should continue should further maximize margins while optimizing fuel costs at our Ameren facility, we continued our out of what we consider to be a best-in-class independent power producer management team in April and in April, we welcomed Marjorie Hargrave as our new CFO. Margie comes to Hallador broad-based experience in power production and capital markets. Adding Margie is a continuation of the breadth and depth of the IPP. talent we continue to add at Hallador over the last two years, we have been successful in hiring our President of Hallador power, Chief Legal Officer with data communications expertise, our Senior Vice President of Power Marketing, and a manager of environmental engineering, all of whom are accelerating our continued development of Hallador current operational and future power acquisition capabilities. These prospects and our strong future sales position make us at how we are very excited about the future of our company.

我們也以優惠的價格從第三方供應商獲得了補充煤炭。這使我們能夠分散自產供應風險，並為我們的銷售組合提供額外的靈活性，可以選擇從內部或從第三方獲取低成本噸礦石，同時抓住煤炭商品市場的向上波動應該繼續下去。最大限度地提高利潤，同時優化我們阿梅倫工廠的燃料成本，我們在4 月份繼續我們認為是一流的獨立電力生產商管理團隊的工作，並於4 月份歡迎Marjorie Hargrave 擔任我們的新任首席財務官。瑪吉為哈拉多帶來了電力生產和資本市場的廣泛經驗。Margie 的加入是 IPP 廣度和深度的延續。過去兩年，我們在 Hallador 不斷增加人才，我們成功聘請了 Hallador 電力總裁、具有數據通信專業知識的首席法務官、電力營銷高級副總裁以及環境工程經理，所有這些他們正在加速我們Hallador 當前運營和未來電力獲取能力的持續發展。這些前景和我們強大的未來銷售地位使我們對公司的未來感到非常興奮。

Also want to thank Larry Martin for his 17 years of service at Hallador. Larry has been a trusted adviser and a friend. We wish him success in retirement later this year. That concludes our prepared remarks.

也要感謝 Larry Martin 在 Hallador 工作了 17 年。拉里一直是一位值得信賴的顧問和朋友。我們祝他今年稍後退休成功。我們準備好的演講到此結束。

I'll now open up the call for any questions. Yes.

我現在將打開電話詢問任何問題。是的。

If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. If for any reason you would like to remind that question, please press star followed by two again to ask a question, press star one. As a reminder, if you're using a speakerphone, please remember to pick up your handset before asking your question as your previous questions are registered.

如果您想提問，請按下電話鍵盤上的星號，然後再按一個。如果您因為任何原因想提醒問題，請按星號，然後再按星號 2 來提問，請按星號 1。提醒一下，如果您使用免持電話，請記得在提問前拿起聽筒，因為您之前的問題已被記錄。

Our first question goes to the line of Lucas Pipes with B. Riley Financial's Your line is open.

我們的第一個問題是 Lucas Pipes 與 B. Riley Financial 的 Your 線已開通。

Thank you very much, operator. Good afternoon, everyone. And first, I want to add my congratulations to Larry and my best wishes for his retirement. Brian?

非常感謝您，接線生。大家下午好。首先，我要向拉里表示祝賀，並祝他退休。布萊恩？

Thanks, Brent. I want to touch on your kind of forward sales position on the power side, there is that nice jump in 2026 versus 2025 to $55.37 to $36.06. And I wondered if you could remind us and what what drove that. And I have a suspicion, but I would be curious to hear more about that. And could you maybe walk us through a pro forma revenue build up of the Power segment, assuming on kind of the for more power price market holds? And also you sell the remaining capacity? Thank you very much.

謝謝，布倫特。我想談談你們在電力方面的遠期銷售定位，2026 年與 2025 年相比，有一個不錯的跳躍，達到 55.37 美元到 36.06 美元。我想知道你能否提醒我們以及是什麼推動了這一點。我有一個懷疑，但我很想聽到更多相關資訊。您能否向我們介紹一下電力部門的預期收入成長情況，假設更多的電力價格市場保持不變？剩下的產能也賣掉？非常感謝。

Yes. So as stated on the call, we sold a fair amount of 2024 and 2025 energy to the seller of the plant as a condition of selling a plant at $34 a megawatt hour. And what we're trying to what we stated on the call is that and we essentially have sold over 5 million megawatt hours since that time, two other participants and including well to any other market at $54. And so we continue to see fairly strong pricing in the forward sales curve, and it's just a result of and you can't pick up the paper any day and not and not read it or hear about how all this new demand we're seeing from AI. and EV.s and onshoring, and we've got my So expressing their concerns about could their reserve margin go negative next year which I don't know if that's possible, but it's kind of speaks to the tightness of of the market. And and so as we continue to make forward sales, we're encouraged by the pricing that we see also as outlined, saw an offer made to us for over over $1 billion worth of future energy and capacity sales. So the reason, yes, we don't have that contracted yet and that deal may or may not happen, but there's a number of RFPs going on right now, plus plus RRFP. associated with it's mostly data center type customers trying to get them to locate on or near the property. So we think there's a lot of competition and one of the things we just kind of wanted to state is that if you look back, I think in the third quarter, we had something like we added $300 million in sales in the fourth quarter like $400 million in the Power division this quarter, $138 million.

是的。因此，正如電話會議中所述，我們向電廠賣方出售了相當數量的 2024 年和 2025 年能源，作為以每兆瓦時 34 美元出售電廠的條件。我們正在努力實現我們在電話會議上所說的那樣，從那時起，我們基本上已經向其他兩個參與者出售了超過500 萬兆瓦時的電量，包括以54 美元的價格向任何其他市場出售的電量。因此，我們繼續在遠期銷售曲線中看到相當強勁的定價，這只是你每天拿起報紙而不閱讀或聽到我們所看到的所有新需求的結果來自人工智慧。以及電動車和本土業務，我們表達了他們對明年準備金率是否可能為負的擔憂，我不知道這是否可能，但這在某種程度上說明了市場的緊張程度。因此，當我們繼續進行遠期銷售時，我們對所概述的定價感到鼓舞，並看到向我們提出的價值超過 10 億美元的未來能源和產能銷售的報價。所以原因是，是的，我們還沒有簽訂合同，這筆交易可能會發生，也可能不會發生，但現在有很多 RFP 正在進行，再加上 RRFP。與之相關的主要是資料中心類型的客戶，試圖讓他們位於該物業上或附近。因此，我們認為存在著許多競爭，我們只是想聲明的一件事是，如果你回顧一下，我認為在第三季度，我們在第四季度的銷售額增加了 3 億美元，相當於 400 美元本季度電源部門的收入為1.38 億美元。

But we feel that is going to be the potential for some very large traction transactions this year is there. And so we just kind of wanted to signal that to the market that so we're hopeful that we can we can transact sometime this year on some very profitable and looped and large transaction.

但我們認為今年有可能出現一些非常大的牽引交易。因此，我們只是想向市場發出這樣的信號，因此我們希望能夠在今年的某個時候進行一些非常有利可圖、循環的大型交易。

So I think that was the first part of your question. When we look at what's the revenue line of the power plant, it's basically made up of energy and capacity sales. And so we have not been as hedged as we would like to be in the fourth quarter of last year and first quarter of this year. Which has meant we've been selling in the spot a large percentage of our of powered division in the spot market, which at times can be very high prices. We saw prices as high as $250 a megawatt hour in January. But we also see times where it's below our cost structure and we're turning our plan off or we're slowing it down at night or something like that. So the goal is to to contract a higher percentage of our forward sales so that we can get the plants up up and operating and leave them on, right. And so we say that our goal of 6 million megawatt hours a year, that's something that we think is attainable and something that we are working towards. So look, so look for more on that front out of us and the future.

所以我認為這是你問題的第一部分。當我們查看發電廠的收入線時，它基本上由能源和容量銷售組成。因此，我們在去年第四季和今年第一季並沒有像我們希望的那樣進行對沖。這意味著我們一直在現貨市場上現貨銷售我們動力部門的很大一部分，有時價格可能非常高。一月份我們看到價格高達每兆瓦時 250 美元。但我們也看到有時它低於我們的成本結構，我們正在關閉我們的計劃，或者我們在晚上放慢速度或類似的事情。因此，我們的目標是簽訂更高比例的遠期銷售合同，以便我們能夠讓工廠啟動並運營並繼續運營，對吧。因此，我們說，我們的目標是每年 600 萬兆瓦時，我們認為這是可以實現的，也是我們正在努力實現的目標。所以看看，所以在我們和未來的方面尋找更多。

So should we assume Thank you for this. Brent. Should we assume that you what theme kind of more hedged in the future?

所以我們應該假設謝謝你。布倫特。我們是否應該假設您未來哪個主題會更加對沖？

Yes, Southern Rail, we've been trying to do that in a very low-risk way, right? We've talked in the past about unit contingent plan contingent type transactions and that if we can't produce, we don't have to cover. So those those have been slower to put together, but we've been successful in putting those together of and so we we will hopefully continue to do more of that.

是的，南方鐵路，我們一直在嘗試以一種風險非常低的方式做到這一點，對嗎？我們過去討論過單位應急計劃應急類型交易，如果我們不能生產，我們就不必覆蓋。因此，這些整合起來的速度較慢，但我們已經成功地將它們整合在一起，因此我們希望繼續做更多的事情。

None of that is there a guarantee. We're just seeing a very large level of interest from a lot of different players. And so that's so that's got us encouraged.

這些都沒有保證。我們只是看到許多不同的玩家都表現出了極大的興趣。這讓我們深受鼓舞。

Very helpful. If you were to do something kind of behind the meter with the data center at site, what would be a good benchmark for the power pricing. Would it be based on kind of myself pricing in the curve? Or would this be bilateral agreements were prices could deviate from from those benchmark?

很有幫助。如果您要在現場資料中心的電錶後面做一些事情，那麼什麼是電價的良好基準。它會基於我自己在曲線中的定價嗎？或者，如果價格可能偏離這些基準，這是否會是雙邊協議？

Well, we'll see. I mean, we'll have we don't have the results back from the RFP. We're expecting those data points later this month. But certainly, you know, those type transactions will have to compete with what we can do in the more traditional markets. So we feel that competition is it is good for us.

好吧，我們拭目以待。我的意思是，我們不會從 RFP 中得到結果。我們預計這些數據點將在本月稍後公佈。但當然，你知道，這些類型的交易將不得不與我們在更傳統的市場中所做的事情競爭。所以我們覺得競爭對我們有好處。

Thank you. And can you speak a little bit to the of connectivity at the site. Would your site qualify for any data center or could there be limitations due to constraints on the bandwidth of your car Tympany so we have a one gigawatt interconnection at Atomera.

謝謝。能談談現場的連接情況嗎？您的網站是否符合任何資料中心的條件，或者由於您的汽車的頻寬限製而存在限制 Tympany，因此我們在 Atomera 擁有 1 千兆瓦的互連。

I believe the transmission line flowing in and out of that substation there are out of 1.6 gigawatts. And so it offers an interesting situation where we can potentially supply a customer directly from the plant or those electrons can be purchased from from the grid.

我相信流入和流出該變電站的輸電線路有 1.6 吉瓦。因此，它提供了一個有趣的情況，我們可以直接從工廠向客戶供貨，或者可以從電網購買這些電子。

Thank you for that. So but in terms of the kind of fiber access? No, no constraints you're aware of?

謝謝你。那麼，就光纖接入的類型而言呢？不，您知道沒有任何限制嗎？

We'll pretty much every location has to do some level of fiber build in to the location, right? Because these are very potentially hook. I guess the first question is, what will the size of the facility be it and whatnot?

我們幾乎每個地點都必須在該地點建立一定程度的光纖，對嗎？因為這些都是很有潛力的鉤子。我想第一個問題是，該設施的規模是多少，等等？

So those are all questions that we've yet to answer. But again, we kind of mentioned earlier that our Chief Legal Officer kind of comes from the data communications world. So we've been able to tap into that network of people and get really good advice. So we think that in talking to the customers and talking to our advisors that this is very feasible and and there seems to be a high level of interest.

所以這些都是我們尚未回答的問題。但我們之前提到過，我們的首席法務官來自數據通訊領域。因此，我們能夠利用這個人際網絡並獲得非常好的建議。因此，我們認為，在與客戶和我們的顧問交談時，這是非常可行的，而且似乎有很高的興趣。

Very helpful. Thank you very much for that, Brent, and best of luck, Larry, again, best wishes to you all. I'll turn it over. Thank you.

很有幫助。非常感謝你，布倫特，祝你好運，拉里，再次祝你們所有人。我會把它翻過來。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, Lucas. As a reminder, to register your question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. Our next question will go to the line of Jeff press project with Cove Street Capital. Your line is now open.

謝謝你，盧卡斯。提醒一下，要登記您的問題，請按電話鍵盤上的星號，然後再按一個。我們的下一個問題將涉及 Jeff 與 Cove Street Capital 的新聞項目。您的線路現已開通。

Well, now ladies and gentlemen, Hey, Brett and forensic. Maybe just go over the cash flow implications. What we have today and the current structure is in place and sort of an expectation for cash needs over the balance of the year as far as you can see and then help us walk through what but the model look like under you get rid of the contractual, a low sales and you're signing these conceptual big contracts. How does the cash flow model look going forward?

好吧，現在女士們先生們，嘿，布雷特和法醫。也許只是回顧一下現金流的影響。我們今天所擁有的和當前的結構已經就位，並且就您所見，對今年剩餘時間的現金需求進行了預期，然後幫助我們了解一下您擺脫合同的模型是什麼樣子的，低銷售額，而你正在簽署這些概念性的大合約。未來現金流模型如何？

Well, you got a lot of questions wrapped up in one there. So I think we're clear that we don't give out forward-looking guidance. I think we can talk at a high level of and you know what are cost structure looks like and what our revenue looks like.

好吧，你有很多問題都集中在其中一個。所以我認為我們很清楚我們不會提供前瞻性指導。我認為我們可以進行高層次的討論，你知道成本結構是什麼樣的以及我們的收入是什麼樣的。

Right?

正確的？

So I guess you are not looking for guidance or what I'm saying is you guys have woken up and said, we're changing the model and the model change clearly has cash flow implications, which are, you know, transitory, as you know, at least transitory, really not good. And therefore, you guys are tapping different versions of liquidity to kind of keep the engine rolling. And I'm just curious, I understand transition issues, but on a higher level, what an independent IPP that's publicly traded company should look like what as far as a cash flow profile, I'm talking free cash flow.

所以我想你們並不是在尋求指導，或者我想說的是你們已經醒來並說，我們正在改變模型，而模型的改變顯然會對現金流產生影響，你知道，這是暫時的，因為你知道，至少是暫時的，確實不好。因此，你們正在利用不同版本的流動性來保持引擎運轉。我只是很好奇，我了解轉型問題，但在更高的層面上，上市公司的獨立 IPP 應該是什麼樣子，就現金流狀況而言，我說的是自由現金流。

That's what I'm trying to get at is yes, I think what we're trying to say is look on a revenue side. We've got I mean, we clearly state what our what our prices are right that our average prices are for the energy somewhere between $36 a megawatt hour average in 2025 to as high as $55.37 in 2026. As for the as for the energy capacity. We're targeting $65 million in sales. Some years are better than that.

這就是我想要表達的意思，是的，我認為我們想說的是從收入方面來看。我的意思是，我們清楚地說明了我們的價格是正確的，我們的能源平均價格在 2025 年每兆瓦時 36 美元到 2026 年高達 55.37 美元之間。至於能量容量。我們的目標是 6500 萬美元的銷售額。有些年份比這更好。

Some years are worse. But if you divide that by 6 million megawatt hours, that's going to be a little over somewhere between $10 and $11 a megawatt hour, right? So total those two lines together and you have and depending on the year, somewhere between $47 and $56 or excuse me, $66 a megawatt hour. That's the revenue line. On the expense side, Bob, we have a cost structure that's going to be in the in the up variable costs this quarter was around $32 bucks and the of fixed cost that, assuming a $60 million cost divided by 6 million megawatt hours would be $10, right?

有些年份更糟。但如果將其除以 600 萬兆瓦時，每兆瓦時的成本將在 10 至 11 美元之間，對嗎？因此，將這兩條線加在一起，根據年份，您可以獲得每兆瓦時 47 美元到 56 美元之間的價格，或者抱歉，每兆瓦時 66 美元。這就是收入線。在費用方面，鮑勃，我們的成本結構將在本季度上漲，可變成本約為 32 美元，而固定成本，假設 6000 萬美元的成本除以 600 萬兆瓦時，則為 10 美元， 正確的？

So so now in our $60 margins, $40 cost to $20 margin, 6 million megawatt hours, that's $120 million. If we can hit all of our goals, we'll see if we're successful in hitting all of our goals.

因此，現在我們的利潤為 60 美元，成本為 40 美元，利潤為 20 美元，600 萬兆瓦時，即 1.2 億美元。如果我們能夠實現所有目標，我們就會看看是否成功實現了所有目標。

But isn't it isn't by definition, BIPP. world mean you're never going to stuff. You don't want to sell out 100% of your capacity at the prices that the buyers want and I and vice versa. So there's always a contracted versus spot, hence, is that the IPP. model highly variable and here you've got cash in the next year, you'll be doing converts from the Board. I mean, just help me out on how you're looking through this over multiple years. Let's assume you guys execute perfectly. That's what I'm trying to get to.

但根據定義，BIPP 不是嗎？世界意味著你永遠不會去吃東西。您不想以買家想要的價格 100% 出售您的產能，反之亦然。因此，總有一個合約與現貨，因此，這就是 IPP。模型高度可變，明年您將獲得現金，您將從董事會進行轉換。我的意思是，請幫我看看你多年來是如何看待這個問題的。假設你們執行得非常完美。這就是我想要達到的目標。

I think I think on the capacity side, we've clearly list out that we have a high percentage of our capacity sold. So obtaining that goal because of the high likelihood of doing it because we've already got a high percentage of it sold, right. I mean, if you're looking at percent of capacity contracted, it's 100% this year, 32% next year at 77% the year beyond that at 64% a year beyond that. So we don't have a lot of work to do to obtain that goal for. We've got to be work is on the energy side of the business, which is why we think in the next handful of months that we have participated in RFPs of our customers. And we've lost an RFP, our target data center or industrial uses of power through an agreement with Hoosier energy that we announced last quarter.

我想我認為在產能方面，我們已經清楚地列出了我們已售出的產能的比例很高。因此，實現這一目標是因為實現這一目標的可能性很高，因為我們已經售出了很高比例的產品，對吧。我的意思是，如果你看一下合約產能的百分比，今年是 100%，明年是 32%，之後一年是 77%，之後一年是 64%。因此，我們無需做太多工作即可實現該目標。我們必須在業務的能源方面開展工作，這就是為什麼我們認為在接下來的幾個月裡我們將參與客戶的 RFP。透過我們上季宣布的與 Hoosier energy 達成的協議，我們已經失去了 RFP、我們的目標資料中心或工業用電。

So we'll see how successful we are. But we would like to get a decent percentage of our of Platt contracted out so that we can get both units up and running at least have both units running at minimum load, which would be about 65% of our generated output to run at minimum load all the time. So that that's kind of the goal. And that's what I think we're looking at and then the coal side of the business, our power plant is one of our largest customers. And so that kind of has an internal hedge on our cost structure being able to produce coal at costs and deliver it to ourselves.

所以我們會看到我們有多成功。但我們希望將 Platt 的相當一部分外包出去，這樣我們就可以讓兩台機組都啟動並運行，至少兩台機組都以最小負載運行，這大約是我們發電量的 65% 以最小負載運行每時每刻。這就是目標。我認為這就是我們正在關注的，然後是煤炭業務，我們的發電廠是我們最大的客戶之一。因此，這對我們的成本結構有內部對沖，能夠以成本生產煤炭並將其交付給我們自己。

We do purchase some coal from outside parties just to kind of diversify that risk. And that seems to be working out as well.

我們確實從外部購買了一些煤炭，只是為了分散風險。這似乎也奏效了。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. And as a reminder, to register a question, please press start by one on your telephone keypad. Next question. We'll go to the follow-up of Lucas Pipes with B. Riley Financial's. Your line is now open.

謝謝。提醒一下，要註冊問題，請按電話鍵盤上的「開始」鍵。下一個問題。我們將繼續關注 Lucas Pipes 和 B. Riley Financial 的後續報導。您的線路現已開通。

Thank you very much for taking my follow-up question, Brent, I wanted to ask you about kind of some recently unveiled the EPA Clean Power rule. At what point would you consider making investments? What do you think is the legal outlook for this group? Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

非常感謝您提出我的後續問題，布倫特，我想問您一些最近公佈的 EPA 清潔能源規則。您會在什麼時候考慮進行投資？您認為該群體的法律前景如何？欣賞你的想法。謝謝。

Well, look, I think I think the the world is trying to balance a couple of different things. On one hand, we want to keep the lights on 24/7 and we seem to have for the first time in 20, maybe 30 years, you know, significant growth in demand for electronics. And at the same time, the world desires lower carbon emissions. So that's kind of the tug-of-war that I think goes on there. And the challenge that we're all being guard guided to and the grid, it took 100. It is 50 years or so to build. And it's designed for a system of baseload power and spending generation and on it and in many cases, it needs on-site fuel.

嗯，聽著，我認為世界正在努力平衡一些不同的事情。一方面，我們希望保持 24/7 全天候運轉，而且電子產品的需求似乎在 20 年甚至 30 年來首次出現顯著增長。同時，世界希望降低碳排放。我認為這就是一場拉鋸戰。我們都在守衛的引導下完成了挑戰，並在網格中完成了 100 次。建成需要50年左右的時間。它是為基本負載電力和消費性發電系統而設計的，在許多情況下，它需要現場燃料。

And so we're trying to transition to something else in a short period of time. And that's going to be really, really challenging. And so we've seen this new carbon plant come out of I suspect it will be stayed and eyes in. And I've read different legal theories and the like that, you know, it's probably headed to the U.S. Supreme Court. And if I had to bet I would bet. They'll bill. I probably say it was unlawful. But But regardless of that to me, it does give a path for our business to run through 2039 and that would be with co-firing with gas, which we have for the last nine months, have been studying to see that as an alternative of a lever that makes sense for us to pull.

因此，我們正在嘗試在短時間內過渡到其他領域。這將是非常非常具有挑戰性的。所以我們已經看到這個新的碳工廠出來了，我懷疑它會被留下來並受到關注。我讀過不同的法律理論等，你知道，它可能會提交給美國最高法院。如果我必須打賭，我會打賭。他們會開立帳單。我可能會說這是非法的。但不管怎樣，對我來說，它確實為我們的業務提供了一條通往 2039 年的道路，那就是與天然氣共燒，我們在過去九個月裡一直在研究，以期將其作為替代方案對我們來說拉動有意義的槓桿。

So we're continuing to evaluate that and we're continuing to evaluate these new rules. There's going to be a lot of changes, but I think at the end of the day. The fact that always went out is the lights must always stay on it. And if they don't, they'll be new leaders, right? Because people just aren't going to accept rolling blackouts in this country. And so I think physics prevails, that doesn't mean that the desire is there or not working towards that path. I just think we have to do so in a very responsible way. And so to all this is probably going to take much longer than what politicians and headlines would have you believe I mean, it wasn't that long ago, three, four years ago, they were saying that we were going to be carbon-free by 2030 and 20 than it was 2035. And now we have a pathway for the existing fleet to stay on until 2039. And if this rule stays around, it essentially means that any new gas plant builds have to have carbon capture and storage, which to me makes it extremely challenge, Jane, for anyone to build a new gas plant. So it kind of means that we're probably going to rely on the existing fleet and some capacity for much, much longer, but there'll certainly be a lot of lawyers that spend time analyzing these bills. I mean these rules were 1,400 pages long. So they're very detailed and specific. And I think the industry is still trying to figure out, you know exactly what what the exact interpretation is because it gets very specific for each fuel source.

因此，我們將繼續評估這一點，並繼續評估這些新規則。將會有很多變化，但我認為最終會發生。總是熄滅的事實是燈必須始終保持亮著。如果他們不這樣做，他們就會成為新的領導者，對吧？因為人們不會接受這個國家的輪流停電。所以我認為物理學佔上風，這並不意味著願望存在或沒有朝著這條道路努力。我只是認為我們必須以非常負責任的方式這樣做。因此，這一切可能需要比政客和頭條新聞讓你相信的時間更長的時間，我的意思是，就在不久前，三、四年前，他們說我們將實現無碳化到2030 年，比2035年減少20 個。現在，我們有一條途徑可以讓現有機隊維持到 2039 年。如果這條規則繼續存在，它本質上意味著任何新的天然氣工廠建設都必須有碳捕獲和儲存，簡，這對我來說對任何人來說都極具挑戰性，建造一個新的天然氣工廠。因此，這意味著我們可能會在很長一段時間內依賴現有的機隊和一些產能，但肯定會有很多律師花時間分析這些帳單。我的意思是這些規則有 1,400 頁長。所以它們非常詳細和具體。我認為該行業仍在試圖弄清楚，你確切地知道確切的解釋是什麼，因為它對每種燃料來源都非常具體。

But to me, it's a near death blow to a new gas plant build, which further makes All right. So how do you how do you expand the grid? You can't build new gas. Nobody's building new coal, everyone has tried to build a new nuclear plant has has has huge, huge cost overruns by two times or more so and the capacity accreditation that we're seeing myself hand out to wind and solar is 5% of nameplate, right?

但對我來說，這對新建天然氣廠來說幾乎是致命的打擊，這進一步讓一切都好起來。那麼如何擴展網格呢？你無法建造新的天然氣。沒有人建造新的煤炭，每個人都試圖建造一座新的核電站，但成本超支了兩倍或更多，而且我們看到自己向風能和太陽能提供的容量認證是銘牌的 5%，正確的？

So you got to build 20X of whatever wind and solar is to get out, but you got to 20 gigawatts of solar to get one gigawatt of capacity. I mean that's that that math is very problematic. So and I don't think there's any easy answers or solutions here, but we are becoming more and more convinced about the longevity of our business, the profitability of our business and mostly because we are kind of transitioning the Company from a business that has a shrinking demand to a business that has a growing demand. And I think that has great benefit for the long-term shareholders of Hallador very helpful.

因此，你必須建造 20 倍的風能和太陽能才能發電，但你必須建造 20 吉瓦的太陽能才能獲得 1 吉瓦的容量。我的意思是數學很有問題。因此，我認為這裡沒有任何簡單的答案或解決方案，但我們越來越相信我們業務的壽命、我們業務的盈利能力，主要是因為我們正在將公司從一個對需求不斷增長的企業來說，需求不斷減少。我認為這對 Hallador 的長期股東來說非常有利，非常有幫助。

Thank you, Brent. Two, two follow-ups on this first and co-firing with natural gas, how much would that cost to make a plant change for that? How long would it take and then on the back of your thesis that you just articulated, are you looking at acquisitions of other coal-fired power plants, be it in myself or across the banks?

謝謝你，布倫特。兩個，兩個後續行動，第一次和與天然氣混燒，為此進行工廠改造需要多少錢？需要多長時間，然後在你剛剛闡述的論文的後面，你是否正在考慮收購其他燃煤電廠，無論是在我自己還是跨銀行？

Yes. So we're still like I said, we're still evaluating what what a co-firing the plant would look like, and there's different ways of doing that. So we're not really ready to come out of the cost estimate, though it's though it is feasible.

是的。所以我們仍然像我說的那樣，我們仍在評估共燃工廠的樣子，並且有不同的方法可以做到這一點。因此，我們還沒有真正準備好進行成本估算，儘管它是可行的。

And then secondly, Al, he's now got interrupted. The second part of your question again, Lucas was one of it, and this has? Yes. Yes, I think we're always in the market and we're always having some level of conversation with someone about acquisitions and what that might look like. It's definitely something that as we talked about on the call, we continue to build out our team of experts and kind of bolster our capabilities to, you know, acquire plants, operating plants and increase the overall value of those assets.

其次，艾爾，他現在被打斷了。你問題的第二部分又來了，盧卡斯就是其中之一，而這個呢？是的。是的，我認為我們一直在市場中，並且總是與某人就收購及其可能的情況進行一定程度的對話。正如我們在電話會議上談到的那樣，我們將繼續建立我們的專家團隊，並增強我們收購工廠、營運工廠並增加這些資產的整體價值的能力。

And I think that's that's what we're trying to do. And that's part of the reason of the BRFP. with the with the different data center groups to see if that's another way that we can add value on to the platform that we have.

我認為這就是我們正在努力做的事情。這也是 BRFP 成立的部分原因。與不同的資料中心小組合作，看看這是否是我們可以為我們擁有的平台增加價值的另一種方式。

Brent, I appreciate all the all the insights there. Again, best of luck.

布倫特，我很欣賞那裡的所有見解。再次祝你好運。

Thank you, sir.

謝謝你，先生。

But thank you again to ask a question, please press star one followed by press. Please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. We will pause here briefly as questions get registered, there are no additional questions waiting at this time. So I'll pass the conference back over to Brent Brent Bracelin for closing remarks.

但再次感謝您提出問題，請按星號一，然後按。請按電話鍵盤上的星號，然後按一。當問題被登記時，我們將在這裡短暫暫停，目前沒有其他問題等待。因此，我將把會議交回給布倫特·布倫特·布雷斯林 (Brent Brent Bracelin) 致閉幕詞。

Well, I just want to thank everyone for their time today and their continued interest in Hallador. Thank you.

好吧，我只想感謝大家今天抽出時間以及對 Hallador 的持續關注。謝謝。

Yes, that concludes the Hallador Energy First Quarter 2024 earnings call. Thank you. For your participation. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day.

是的，哈拉多能源 2024 年第一季財報電話會議到此結束。謝謝。為了您的參與。我希望您度過愉快的一天。