Hallador Energy Co (HNRG) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Hallador Energy Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. My name is Emily, and I'll be coordinating your call today. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎參加 Hallador Energy 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。我叫艾米麗，今天我將協調您的電話。 （操作員說明）

I will now turn the call over to our host, Rebecca Palumbo. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話轉給我們的主持人麗貝卡·帕倫博。請繼續。

Thank you, Emily, and thank you, everybody, for joining us today. Yesterday afternoon, we released our third quarter 2023 financial and operating results on Form 10-Q that is now posted on our website.

謝謝艾米莉，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。昨天下午，我們以 10-Q 表格形式發布了 2023 年第三季財務和營運業績，現已發佈在我們的網站上。

With me today on this call is Brent Bilsland, our President and CEO; and Larry Martin, our CFO. After the prepared remarks, we will open up the call to your questions.

今天與我一起參加這次電話會議的是我們的總裁兼執行長 Brent Bilsland；和我們的財務長拉里·馬丁 (Larry Martin)。在準備好發言後，我們將開始電話詢問您的問題。

Before we begin, please note that the discussion today may contain certain forward-looking statements that are statements related to the future, not past events. In this context, forward-looking statements often address our expected future business and financial performance. While these forward-looking statements are based on information currently available to us, if one or more of these risks and uncertainties materialize or if our assumptions prove incorrect, actual results may vary materially from those we projected or expected. For example, our estimates of mining costs, future sales, legislation or regulations.

在我們開始之前，請注意，今天的討論可能包含某些前瞻性陳述，這些陳述與未來有關，而不是與過去的事件有關。在這種情況下，前瞻性陳述通常涉及我們預期的未來業務和財務表現。雖然這些前瞻性陳述是基於我們目前掌握的信息，但如果這些風險和不確定性中的一項或多項成為現實，或者如果我們的假設被證明是不正確的，則實際結果可能與我們預測或預期的結果有重大差異。例如，我們對採礦成本、未來銷售、立法或法規的估計。

In providing these remarks, we have no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, that may be required by law. For a discussion of those risks and uncertainties that may affect our future results, please review the risk factors described from time to time in the reports we file with the SEC.

在提供這些評論時，我們沒有義務公開更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述，無論是由於新資訊、未來事件或法律可能要求的其他原因。有關可能影響我們未來業績的風險和不確定性的討論，請查看我們向 SEC 提交的報告中不時描述的風險因素。

As a reminder, this call is being recorded. In addition, we will have an archived webcast of this earnings call on our website. We encourage you to ask questions during the Q&A, and if you are on the webcast and would like to ask a question, you will need to dial in to the conference line. That toll-free number is 1 (833)-470-1428, access code 224373.

提醒一下，此通話正在錄音。此外，我們也將在我們的網站上提供本次財報電話會議的存檔網路廣播。我們鼓勵您在問答期間提問，如果您在網路廣播中想要提問，則需要撥入會議線路。此免付費電話號碼是 1 (833)-470-1428，接取碼 224373。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Larry.

然後，我會將電話轉給拉里。

Thank you, Becky, and good afternoon, everyone. Before I begin, I want to define adjusted EBITDA, which we define as operating cash flow less the effects of certain subsidiary and equity method investments, plus bank interest, less the effects of working capital changes, plus cash paid on asset retirement obligation, reclamation, plus other amortization.

謝謝你，貝基，大家下午好。在開始之前，我想定義調整後的EBITDA，我們將其定義為經營現金流量減去某些子公司和權益法投資的影響，加上銀行利息，減去營運資金變動的影響，加上資產報廢義務、回收所支付的現金，加上其他攤提。

For the quarter, Hallador incurred net income of $16.1 million, which was $0.49 a basic earning per share or $0.44 per diluted earnings per share. For the year, net income was $55 million, $1.66 earnings per share, $1.52 diluted earnings per share. We had adjusted EBITDA for the quarter of $35.9 million and, for the year, $105.2 million.

Hallador 本季淨利潤為 1,610 萬美元，基本每股收益為 0.49 美元，稀釋每股收益為 0.44 美元。本年度淨利為 5,500 萬美元，每股收益 1.66 美元，稀釋後每股收益 1.52 美元。我們將季度 EBITDA 調整為 3,590 萬美元，全年調整為 1.052 億美元。

We decreased bank debt by $12.5 million for the quarter, $23.5 million for the year. Our funded bank debt as of September 30 was $61.8 million. We had letters of credit totaling $11.2 million. And our net funded bank debt was $59.2 million, which is funded -- or bank debt less cash.

本季我們減少了 1,250 萬美元的銀行債務，全年減少了 2,350 萬美元。截至 9 月 30 日，我們的融資銀行債務為 6,180 萬美元。我們的信用證總額為 1,120 萬美元。我們的銀行債務淨額為 5,920 萬美元，即銀行債務減去現金。

Our leverage ratio, which is defined as debt to adjusted EBITDA, was 7.1x at September 30. Did I say 7-point -- 0.71x for the quarter.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的槓桿率（定義為債務與調整後 EBITDA 比率）為 7.1 倍。我是否說過 7 點——本季為 0.71 倍。

I will now turn the call over to Brent to review the quarter and beyond.

我現在將把電話轉給布倫特，以回顧本季及以後的情況。

Thank you, Larry. First, I'd like to thank the Hallador team for their hard work and dedication on creating another successful quarter. As I've highlighted in our previous quarters, our goals of increasing profitability, increasing company liquidity and reducing balance sheet leverage remain paramount to how we operate as a company. This quarter's results show our continued progress towards these goals.

謝謝你，拉里。首先，我要感謝 Hallador 團隊的辛勤工作和奉獻精神，創造了另一個成功的季度。正如我在前幾個季度強調的那樣，我們提高獲利能力、增加公司流動性和降低資產負債表槓桿的目標對於我們公司的營運方式仍然至關重要。本季度的結果表明我們在實現這些目標方面不斷取得進展。

Our net income of $16.1 million for the quarter helped build on our record net income of $55 million for the first 9 months. And our continued record operating cash flow of $79.5 million over the 9-month period has allowed us to invest $48.7 million in capital expenditures to improve our efficiency and reliability at both our mines and our power plant.

我們本季的淨利潤為 1,610 萬美元，前 9 個月的淨利潤為創紀錄的 5,500 萬美元。在 9 個月期間，我們的營運現金流持續創紀錄地達到 7,950 萬美元，這使我們能夠投資 4,870 萬美元的資本支出，以提高礦場和發電廠的效率和可靠性。

We made continued progress on our goal of improving our balance sheet by repaying $23.5 million of debt during the first 9 months of the year, $12.5 million of which was during the third quarter. This further reduced our leverage, as Larry said, to 0.71x, while we increased liquidity to $66.4 million as of September 30.

我們在今年前 9 個月償還了 2,350 萬美元的債務，其中第三季償還了 1,250 萬美元的債務，從而在改善資產負債表的目標上取得了持續進展。正如 Larry 所說，這進一步將我們的槓桿率降低至 0.71 倍，同時截至 9 月 30 日我們將流動性增加至 6,640 萬美元。

On October 2, we successfully amended our credit facility with PNC Bank, which we accounted for as a debt extinguishment. This amendment is important as it extends the maturity of our credit facility into 2026.

10 月 2 日，我們成功修改了 PNC 銀行的信貸安排，我們將其視為債務消滅。這項修正案非常重要，因為它將我們的信貸安排期限延長至 2026 年。

During the third quarter, high coal sales prices, coupled with large coal shipment volumes, led to record coal revenue. Our well-contracted sales book supported our revenue growth despite operational challenges increasing our cost per ton during the quarter. We chose to relocate 57% of our coal units of production during the third quarter and into October to better -- to obtain better geologic conditions. This led to higher cost and decreased production during this time frame, but is resulting in overall production improvements following the moves, which we expect to continue.

第三季度，煤炭銷售價格高企，煤炭運送量大，煤炭收入創歷史新高。儘管營運挑戰增加了本季的每噸成本，但我們良好的銷售合約支持了我們的收入成長。我們選擇在第三季和 10 月期間將 57% 的煤炭生產裝置轉移到更好的位置，以獲得更好的地質條件。這導致了在此期間成本上升和產量下降，但此舉導致整體產量提高，我們預計這種情況將繼續下去。

During the quarter, we shipped 2.1 million tons of coal at an average price of $56.43 before intercompany eliminations. We produced 1.6 million tons in the quarter at $46.54 per ton before eliminations. Leading to margins of $18.89 per ton during the third quarter before eliminations. We expect an average price of $54.30 per ton on the remaining tons to be shipped this year.

本季度，我們以 56.43 美元的公司間抵銷前平均價格運輸了 210 萬噸煤炭。本季我們生產了 160 萬噸，抵銷前價格為每噸 46.54 美元。導致淘汰前第三季的利潤為每噸 18.89 美元。我們預計今年剩餘噸的出貨平均價格為每噸 54.30 美元。

On the power side of the business, intercompany coal sales from our Coal division to our Power Plant division, increased the average variable cost per megawatt hour to $40.03 per megawatt hour, an increase of $9.98 per megawatt hour over the prior quarter before eliminations. We set the price of coal we sell to ourselves based on third-party market indicators that we review from time to time. Cost per megawatt hour were $23.49 on a consolidated basis. As the marketing price fluctuates, we expect to see these types of variances in each side of the business. During the quarter, we produced 1.3 million megawatt hours.

在電力業務方面，從煤炭部門到發電廠部門的公司間煤炭銷售，將每兆瓦時的平均變動成本增加至每兆瓦時40.03 美元，比抵銷前的上一季每兆瓦時增加9.98 美元。我們根據我們不時審查的第三方市場指標來設定銷售給自己的煤炭價格。每兆瓦時的綜合成本為 23.49 美元。隨著行銷價格的波動，我們預期業務各方都會出現此類差異。本季度，我們發電量為 130 萬兆瓦時。

We are excited about the progress we are making in our forward power sales capacity book. During the quarter, and in the time leading up to this release, our Power division was successful in securing $325 million of energy and capacity sales across multiple years, as reported in our Form 10-Q filed last night. This morning, we received a signed agreement for an additional $41 million of capacity and revenue over the years '24, '25 and '26, bringing this number of total sales up to $366 million. These sales are important as they create a profitable foundation for our Power division over the next 5 years, with sufficient energy sales at -- or excuse me, with significant energy sales at $56 per megawatt hour, and capacity prices approaching $220 per megawatt day.

我們對遠期電力銷售能力的進展感到興奮。正如我們昨晚提交的 10-Q 表格中所報告的，在本季度以及在此發布之前的時間內，我們的電力部門成功實現了多年來的 3.25 億美元能源和容量銷售。今天早上，我們收到了一份已簽署的協議，將在 24 年、25 年和 26 年增加 4,100 萬美元的產能和收入，使總銷售額達到 3.66 億美元。這些銷售很重要，因為它們為我們的電力部門在未來5 年創造了盈利的基礎，有足夠的能源銷售——或者對不起，能源銷售量為每兆瓦時56 美元，容量價格接近每兆瓦日220 美元。

Now we get a lot of questions concerning how an investor should think about Hallador now that we have added a power division. To add clarity, we included a detailed section -- we included a lot of detail on Section 3 of the overview of the MD&A outlining our sales of coal, power and capacity through 2028.

現在我們收到了很多關於投資者應該如何看待哈拉多的問題，因為我們增加了一個權力部門。為了增加清晰度，我們添加了一個詳細部分 - 我們在 MD&A 概述的第 3 部分中添加了很多詳細信息，概述了我們到 2028 年的煤炭、電力和產能銷售情況。

At a high level, I think about our business as such. We produce 7 million tons of coal annually. Just over 4 million tons is sold to outside customers and almost 3 million tons is sold to our Power division, Hallador Power. The reference table will show that, over the next 5 years, 54% of the coal that we plan to sell to outside parties is already committed to those parties and 73% of these commitments are priced at an average price of $52.60 per ton. Our year-to-date cost per ton to produce coal was $43.25.

我從較高的層面來思考我們的業務。我們每年生產 700 萬噸煤炭。超過 400 萬噸出售給外部客戶，近 300 萬噸出售給我們的電力部門 Hallador Power。參考表將顯示，在未來 5 年內，我們計劃向外部各方出售的煤炭中，54% 已承諾出售給這些各方，其中 73% 的承諾價格平均為每噸 52.60 美元。今年迄今為止，我們每噸煤炭的生產成本為 43.25 美元。

The other 3 million tons assume that we will annually produce 6 million-megawatt hours at our power plant. Now there are rules about how we price this coal to ourselves and the accounting around this can be confusing to follow due to the internal eliminations. However, the price that is chosen for the coal that we sell ourselves only determines how much profit or loss is allocated to our Coal division or our Power division. Ultimately, what matters is how much profit is made at Hallador based on our cost structure.

另外 300 萬噸假設我們的發電廠每年發電 600 萬兆瓦時。現在，我們對如何為自己定價這些煤炭制定了規則，並且由於內部抵銷，圍繞此的會計可能會令人困惑。然而，我們自己銷售的煤炭所選擇的價格僅決定了分配給我們的煤炭部門或電力部門的利潤或損失。最終，重要的是根據我們的成本結構，Hallador 能獲得多少利潤。

During the third quarter, our consolidated variable costs at the plant was $23.49 per megawatt hour. As stated in previous quarters, we use our capacity sales to cover the majority of our fixed costs at the plant. We have sold -- and we expect, with the capacity prices that we're seeing, that to continue.

第三季度，我們工廠的綜合變動成本為每兆瓦時 23.49 美元。如前幾季所述，我們利用產能銷售來支付工廠的大部分固定成本。我們已經出售了——並且我們預計，根據我們所看到的容量價格，這種情況會繼續下去。

We have sold approximately 27% of our future power through 2025 at $34 per megawatt hour, roughly a $10 margin based upon that cost structure. But in this past quarter, we have sold 3.3 million megawatt hours for the '26, '27, '28 years at $56 per megawatt hour, which is roughly $32 per megawatt hour profit margins based on today's cost structures. These sales have us very excited about the profit potential for Hallador Power.

到 2025 年，我們以每兆瓦時 34 美元的價格出售了大約 27% 的未來電力，根據該成本結構，利潤約為 10 美元。但在過去的這個季度，我們在 26、27、28 年以每兆瓦時 56 美元的價格出售了 330 萬兆瓦時，根據當今的成本結構，每兆瓦時的利潤率約為 32 美元。這些銷售讓我們對 Hallador Power 的利潤潛力感到非常興奮。

Now that doesn't mean there won't be operational challenge such as the one we experienced on October 2 when we had an unplanned transformer outage in one of the generators at the power plant. The transformer has since been replaced, and the event will cause us to miss a net 2 to 3 weeks of output from 1 of those 2 units.

但這並不意味著不會出現營運挑戰，就像我們在 10 月 2 日遇到的那樣，當時我們發電廠的一台發電機發生了意外變壓器停駛。此後變壓器已被更換，該事件將導致我們錯過這 2 台設備中 1 台的 2 至 3 週的淨輸出。

I want to reemphasize, I am very excited about the future of the company, especially as I look to the power sales through 2028, what we are seeing through increased pricing from our recent power PPAs, coupled with strong capacity demand and pricing. With a solid book of business that we are now showing and the steady supply of coal from our mines, I am incredibly pleased with the progress that we are making towards leveraging the opportunities that drove our decision to acquire the power plant. As I said at the start of my comments, I'm encouraged by the quarterly results and the continued progression of Hallador as a company.

我想再次強調，我對公司的未來感到非常興奮，特別是當我展望 2028 年的電力銷售時，我們透過最近的電力購電協議的定價上漲以及強勁的容量需求和定價看到了這一點。憑藉我們現在展示的可靠業務記錄以及我們礦山的穩定煤炭供應，我對我們在利用機會方面所取得的進展感到非常滿意，這些機會促使我們決定收購該發電廠。正如我在評論開始時所說的那樣，我對 Hallador 作為一家公司的季度業績和持續發展感到鼓舞。

And with that, I will open up the call for questions.

接下來，我將開始提問。

Before we go to questions, I want to clarify one sentence here. Our shipments were 2.1 million at $65.43 for the quarter, for an $18.89 per ton margin.

在我們開始提問之前，我想先澄清一句話。本季我們的出貨量為 210 萬件，價格為 65.43 美元，每噸利潤為 18.89 美元。

Thank you, Larry.

謝謝你，拉里。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today comes from the line of Kevin Tracey with Oberon Asset Management.

（操作員說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自 Oberon Asset Management 的 Kevin Tracey。

Great. The first one is just to clarify what I thought you just heard you say about the outage at Merom. So in the 10-Q, there's a note where it says the unit isn't expected to be back into service for the second half of December. But I thought I heard you say that the outage was only 2 to 3 weeks. So I guess, was it -- are we kind of missing 2.5 months or 2 to 3 weeks of this unit?

偉大的。第一個只是為了澄清我認為你剛剛聽到你所說的關於梅羅姆停電的事情。因此，在 10-Q 中，有一個說明稱該裝置預計不會在 12 月下半月恢復運作。但我想我聽到你說停電只有 2 到 3 週。所以我想，是不是——我們錯過了 2.5 個月或 2 到 3 週的時間來學習這個單元？

Yes. Let me clarify that. So the unit was already scheduled to get on a scheduled outage from November 1 to December 27. That's something that we schedule with MISO 6 to 9 months in advance, and we bring in outside contractors to do routine maintenance on the unit. So that was planned.

是的。讓我澄清一下。因此，該機組已安排在 11 月 1 日至 12 月 27 日期間進行計劃停運。這是我們提前 6 至 9 個月與 MISO 安排的，並聘請外部承包商對機組進行日常維護。這就是計劃好的。

The unit went down basically a month early due to the transformer. And so we have sped up part of the outage work to begin some of that work that we could do in October, which means, instead of the unit coming back online its December 27, it will probably come back online a week or 2 earlier than it was previously scheduled. So net-net, we're going to lose this unit -- 1 of the 2 units for 2 to 3 weeks longer than was expected and planned for.

由於變壓器的原因，機組基本上提前一個月停機。因此，我們加快了部分停電工作，以開始我們可以在 10 月完成的部分工作，這意味著該設備不會在 12 月 27 日恢復上線，而是可能會提前一到兩週恢復上線。這是之前安排的。因此，淨淨地說，我們將失去這台設備——2 台設備中的 1 台，其持續時間比預期和計劃要長 2 至 3 週。

Cross your fingers, the power prices are higher in December.

祈禱吧，12 月的電價會更高。

Okay. And going forward, will there be -- do you expect any impact on MISO's accreditation of the [plan] for purposes of future capacity revenues? Or are you hoping that won't be material?

好的。展望未來，您預期 MISO 出於未來容量收入目的對 [計畫] 的認證是否會受到任何影響？還是你希望這不會是實質的？

Yes. I think every time you have a forced outage -- so accreditation is a rolling 3 months -- a 3-year process, right? And so they're looking at your performance history during that time frame. So things that help your capacity rating are -- we acquired a plant that was scheduled for shutdown. So some of that maintenance was let go. And we are spending additional monies this year and next to kind of get the plant back in what I would call tiptop shape.

是的。我認為每次強制停機時——所以認證是一個滾動的 3 個月——一個為期 3 年的過程，對吧？因此他們會查看您在該時間範圍內的表現歷史記錄。因此，對您的產能評級有幫助的事情是——我們收購了一家計劃關閉的工廠。因此，部分維護工作被放棄。今年和明年我們將花費更多資金，以使工廠恢復到我所說的最佳形狀。

And so where that helps you on accreditation is we're seeing higher output numbers than when we took over the plant a little over a year ago, right? So as you get newer and better and refurbished equipment on the plant, you're able to achieve higher performance. That's to the good side. The bad side is, every time you have an unscheduled outage such as we had with the transformer, that counts against you in accreditation.

因此，對您的認證有幫助的是，我們看到的產量比我們一年多前接管工廠時更高，對吧？因此，當您在工廠中獲得更新、更好和翻新的設備時，您將能夠實現更高的性能。這是好的一面。不好的一面是，每次發生意外停電（例如變壓器停電）時，都會對您的認證不利。

And then I'd say, thirdly, we still see MISO making tweaks and adjustments to their accreditation process. They've not finalized those rules, and so we can't ever be 100% certain what comes out of that. Do we get more accreditation? Do we get less accreditation? It's always hard to say. So all we can do, and what we have done is, as of our last accreditation, which was eight hundred and -- I mean it's on a seasonal basis, but I think on average, our accreditation was 860 megawatts. That's what we're basing our numbers on. So when we show you, hey, here's how much capacity we've sold as a percentage of the plant, it's based on an assumption that our accreditation is 860. But that number could go up or down based on our next accreditation from MISO.

然後我想說，第三，我們仍然看到 MISO 對他們的認證流程進行調整和調整。他們尚未最終確定這些規則，因此我們無法 100% 確定最終結果。我們是否獲得更多認證？我們獲得的認證會更少嗎？總是很難說。因此，我們所能做的，以及我們已經做的就是，截至我們上次認證時，發電量為800 兆瓦——我的意思是，這是按季節計算的，但我認為平均而言，我們的認證量為860 兆瓦。這就是我們的數字的基礎。因此，當我們向您展示時，嘿，這是我們已售出的產能佔工廠的百分比，這是基於我們的認證為860 的假設。但該數字可能會根據MISO 的下一次認證而上升或下降。

And I want to emphasize on one thing Brent talked about. Being down also depends on when. If you are down in a low demand period, it doesn't count against you as much as if you were down during a high demand, say, minus even 20 degrees or something like that in the winter when there's a lot of demand for electricity. So us being down in October in a mild season may not count as much against us as -- and we may get more upside when we come back on in December. That's total speculation, but it is...

我想強調布倫特談到的一件事。情緒低落也取決於何時。如果您在低需求時期出現停電，那麼對您的不利影響不會像在高需求期間出現停電那樣嚴重，例如，在電力需求旺盛的冬季，甚至零下 20 度或類似的溫度。因此，我們在 10 月溫和季節的下滑可能不會對我們造成那麼大的影響，而且當我們在 12 月恢復時，我們可能會得到更多的上漲空間。這完全是猜測，但事實是...

Odds are we're going to have colder weather in December than we had in October. Power prices theoretically would be higher. So it may not be as -- we may be trading 4 mild weather weeks for 2 cold weather weeks. We just don't know and we won't know until we get there.

十二月的天氣很可能比十月更冷。理論上電價會更高。因此，情況可能並非如此——我們可能會用 4 週溫和天氣換取 2 週寒冷天氣。我們只是不知道，而且直到我們到達那裡才會知道。

Understood. Okay. And then, so with these power sales agreements you've entered in. So you've sold about 1/4 of your planned generation for the next several years. Can you talk a bit more about how high you want to go in terms of selling power forward as a percentage of your expectation? And then how are you managing the risks there, or if the plant were to have an unplanned outage and you've agreed to supply power at certain prices, if you find yourself [along] the power market? So how are you kind of managing risks when you're thinking about entering those agreements? And if you could touch on how high you're hoping to go in terms of forward sales.

明白了。好的。然後，透過您簽訂的這些電力銷售協議。您已經售出了未來幾年計劃發電量的約 1/4。你能多談談你希望在銷售大前鋒方面達到多高的水平（佔你期望的百分比）嗎？然後，如果您發現自己[沿著]電力市場，那麼您如何管理那裡的風險，或者如果工廠發生計劃外停電並且您同意以一定價格供電？那麼，當您考慮簽訂這些協議時，您是如何管理風險的呢？您能否談談您希望遠期銷售達到多高？

Yes, good question. So far to date, everything that we have sold on the power side is plant or unit contingent, meaning that we sold the power, and if we fail to perform, we do not have to go out and buy that power. We don't have to cover, right? We just simply are not shipping those electrons to the customer and they either have to do without it or they have to go buy them elsewhere. But that is not on our accounts.

是的，好問題。到目前為止，我們在電力方面出售的所有東西都是工廠或單位特遣隊，這意味著我們出售了電力，如果我們未能履行職責，我們不必出去購買電力。我們不必掩護，對吧？我們只是不將這些電子產品運送給客戶，他們要么不得不放棄它，要么必須去其他地方購買。但這不在我們的帳戶上。

So I think as excited as we are about our sales, on a risk-adjusted basis, we're extremely excited about that.

因此，我認為，儘管我們對銷售感到興奮，但在風險調整的基礎上，我們對此感到非常興奮。

I'm going to look to see what opportunities are for -- these are bilateral agreements. These are not exchange hedges. On an exchange hedge, as a firm power sale, we would have to cover in that scenario. And so we want to make sure that we have a lot of liquidity if we do that type of hedging.

我將看看有哪些機會——這些是雙邊協議。這些不是外匯對沖。在外匯對沖中，作為堅定的電力銷售，我們必須應對這種情況。因此，如果我們進行這種類型的對沖，我們希望確保我們擁有大量的流動性。

And so part of our process and what we've talked about here is we want to make sure we get our balance sheet as healthy as possible, get our liquidity as high as possible, and then we'll look to the market to see if there is hedges that we want to -- additional hedges that we'd like to layer in.

因此，我們流程的一部分以及我們在這裡討論的內容是，我們希望確保我們的資產負債表盡可能健康，流動性盡可能高，然後我們將關注市場，看看是否我們想要一些對沖——我們想要分層加入額外的對沖。

Okay. And then on the mining cost per -- sorry, go ahead.

好的。然後是挖礦成本——抱歉，繼續吧。

Yes. I was just going to say, we certainly prefer the bilateral agreements on a risk-adjusted basis.

是的。我只是想說，我們當然更喜歡在風險調整的基礎上達成雙邊協議。

Got it. Okay. And then on the mining cost per ton, I think heading into this year, the hope was that we would see an improvement over 2022's $37 per ton. We've obviously seen costs rise quite a bit from there. Can you talk about sort of what went wrong versus your expectations? Was it just in general inflation or an issue with the geology? And you made some comments about improvements you're seeing from some changes you're making. Can you help set expectations on where you think your mining cost per ton will be for 2024?

知道了。好的。然後就每噸採礦成本而言，我認為進入今年，我們希望看到比 2022 年每噸 37 美元有所改善。我們顯然已經看到成本從那時起大幅上升。您能談談與您的期望相比出了什麼問題嗎？這只是普遍的通膨還是地質問題？您對所做的一些更改所看到的改進發表了一些評論。您能否協助設定 2024 年每噸採礦成本的預期？

So on the production outlook, it's pretty -- we have 7 units -- 7 individual production units underground. I think it's pretty typical in any given quarter for 1 or 2 of those to be struggling. What was unusual about this quarter is we had 4 units struggling. And we -- sometimes that catches you at a time that's a little out of sequence to be moving. So you fight that for a little while. And then finally, ultimately, you come to the decision of we need to shut the unit down and move it. And there's just lost time in production when you do that, particularly out of sequence like we did this quarter and into October.

因此，就生產前景而言，情況非常好——我們有 7 個單元——7 個獨立的地下生產單元。我認為在任何特定季度，其中一兩個人陷入困境是很常見的。本季的不同尋常之處在於，我們有 4 個部門陷入困境。我們——有時會在你移動的時候有點不按順序發生。所以你要為此奮鬥一段時間。最後，最終，您做出決定，我們需要關閉該設備並將其移動。當你這樣做時，就會浪費生產時間，尤其是像我們本季和十月那樣不按順序進行。

So, very unusual to move 4 units at any given quarter, but that's what we did. And that's -- ultimately had an outsized factor on why our costs were the highest they've ever been in any quarter in the history of the company. So, disappointed by that. All I can say is we've moved those units, and I'm pleased with the productivity that I'm seeing to date out of those units. So we expect our cost structure to be better in the future.

因此，在任何特定季度移動 4 個單位是很不尋常的，但這就是我們所做的。這最終是導致我們的成本達到公司歷史上任何季度最高水準的一個重要因素。所以，對此感到失望。我只能說，我們已經轉移了這些單位，而且我對迄今為止看到的這些單位的生產力感到滿意。所以我們預期未來我們的成本結構會更好。

Okay. Are you willing to put out a number on where you think the cost structure will be. Can we get into the 30s again?

好的。您是否願意給出您認為的成本結構的數字？我們能再次回到30歲嗎？

I think that I think we will -- we have seen inflation. So I think probably in 2024 -- gosh, some of that is going to depend on what the production levels are at each mine. But I think you'll see us back into the low 40s, upper 30s.

我認為我們會——我們已經看到了通貨膨脹。所以我認為可能到 2024 年——天哪，其中一些將取決於每個礦場的生產水準。但我認為你會看到我們回到 40 多歲、30 多歲。

Okay. And then on the CapEx, so your fourth quarter guidance implies that the full year CapEx will come in about $10 million than your original budget. And it looks like all of that, I guess, all of that delta from your original guide is coming from the Coal business. Can you talk about where you think CapEx will end up kind of on a normal basis for the coal business going forward? And then do you have any update on the [affluent] project at Merom and kind of where you're thinking the CapEx budget is going to look like next year?

好的。然後是資本支出，因此您的第四季度指導意味著全年資本支出將比您的原始預算高出約 1000 萬美元。我猜，您最初指南中的所有增量似乎都來自煤炭業務。您能否談談您認為煤炭業務未來正常情況下的資本支出最終會如何？那麼，您對 Merom 的[富裕]項目有什麼最新消息嗎？您認為明年的資本支出預算會是什麼樣子？

I'll handle the coal part, and then Brent can answer the affluent question. But for the coal plant, we just had some -- with our moving things around the 57% we moved, we had some mine development we had to do. And then we had some equipment that came on -- that's going to come on at the end of the year that we thought was going to be in the next year. So that's our $10 million difference.

我將處理煤炭部分，然後布倫特可以回答富裕問題。但對於燃煤電廠，我們只是做了一些——隨著我們搬動的東西大約有 57%，我們需要進行一些礦場開發。然後我們有一些設備投入使用——這些設備將在今年年底投入使用，我們原以為會在明年投入使用。這就是我們 1000 萬美元的差異。

Going forward, I think our plan is $35 million for CapEx for the coal plant. Do you want to talk about ELG.

展望未來，我認為我們的燃煤電廠資本支出計畫為 3500 萬美元。你想談學建嗎？

Yes, on ELG. So the EPA has proposed a new rule, that has yet to go final. So we are waiting to see where they ultimately end up. And we expect them to finalize that rule in this coming spring. And so that ultimately will decide what we do and the exact timing and compliance dates to meet that rule. Our Board has approved $45 million to spend on that. We still feel comfortable that, that will meet where we think the EPA is heading with that rule and their most stringent standard. But we'll wait to see where they end up on the final rule before we comply with that.

是的，在學建。因此，美國環保署提出了一項新規則，但尚未最終確定。所以我們正在等著看他們最終的結局。我們預計他們將在今年春天敲定這項規則。因此，最終將決定我們要做什麼以及滿足該規則的確切時間和合規日期。我們的董事會已批准 4500 萬美元用於此項目。我們仍然感到放心，這將符合我們認為美國環保署正在遵循的規則和最嚴格的標準。但在我們遵守這項規則之前，我們將拭​​目以待，看看他們最終的結果如何。

So that is delaying the expenditure of some of those dollars until we know exactly what the EPA wants.

因此，這會推遲部分資金的支出，直到我們確切地知道美國環保署想要什麼。

Okay. And then last quick one here. On the last call, your latest update on your target of getting to basically 0 net debt was the second quarter of next year. Is there any update to that guidance?

好的。然後是最後一個快速的。在上次電話會議上，您關於實現淨債務基本為零的目標的最新更新是在明年第二季。該指南有更新嗎？

Yes. I think the higher cost that we experienced this quarter is going to push that out at least a quarter and into the third quarter of 2024.

是的。我認為本季我們經歷的更高成本將使這一過程推遲至少一個季度，並推遲到 2024 年第三季。

Our next question comes from Kevin Pounds with Castlebury Advisory.

我們的下一個問題來自 Castlebury Advisory 的 Kevin Pounds。

Kenneth. I think you mentioned in the last call that you were looking for -- you might benefit from hot summer or surges in demand in the summer. Did you experience that for the power plant?

肯尼斯.我想您在上次電話中提到您正在尋找 - 您可能會受益於炎熱的夏季或夏季需求的激增。你在發電廠經歷過這種事嗎？

No, we really saw a pretty mild summer. I think we had 2 weeks of hot weather. So we saw good pricing during that time frame. But the balance was somewhere -- from a power pricing perspective was fairly anemic. So we're still kind of waiting for more colder days or hotter days, but we don't like 65-degree days from a business perspective.

不，我們確實看到了一個相當溫和的夏天。我想我們經歷了兩週的炎熱天氣。因此，我們在這段時間內看到了良好的定價。但平衡是存在的——從電力定價的角度來看，平衡相當薄弱。因此，我們仍在等待更冷或更熱的日子，但從商業角度來看，我們不喜歡 65 度的日子。

There's been -- on the West Coast here, there's been refineries closing. Are there some other older power plants that are in your area that might be closing that would tighten up the market? Or have you seen anything like that?

在西海岸，有煉油廠關閉。您所在地區是否還有其他一些較舊的發電廠可能會關閉，導致市場收緊？或是你看過類似的事情嗎？

Yes. We did just have another power plant that closed last week in MISO Zone 6, which is the zone that we're in. We think -- the trend continues to be -- people are taking generation out of MISO that has an on switch and replacing it with generators that do not have an on switch. And as long as that trend continues, that should increase the value of capacity and it's going to create higher highs and lower lows in the power markets, right? Because renewables tend to give you electrons not necessarily when you need them.

是的。我們確實剛剛在 MISO 6 區關閉了另一座發電廠，這就是我們所在的區域。我們認為——趨勢仍然是——人們正在從帶有開關的 MISO 發電，並將其替換為沒有開關的發電機。只要這種趨勢持續下去，容量的價值就會增加，並且會在電力市場上創造更高的高點和更低的低點，對嗎？因為再生能源往往會在您需要時不一定為您提供電子。

And so if we can be a generator that can provide electrons when they're needed, we think that we're going to see some days where there's some pretty extreme high pricing. And when we have an open position such as we have today, a relatively open position, then it affords us those opportunities to take advantage of that. So we'll see what the weather brings.

因此，如果我們能夠成為一個可以在需要時提供電子的發電機，我們認為有一天我們會看到相當高的價格。當我們擁有像今天這樣的開放職位、相對開放的職位時，它就會為我們提供利用這一點的機會。所以我們會看看天氣會帶來什麼。

And we're continuing today to go to work to try to sell more power through bilateral agreements. And I think this quarter was a solid performance in that with, I guess, if you include the contract we [dragged] in the door today, it was $366 million of power and capacity sales, we keep having quarters like that, I think our investors are going to be very happy.

今天我們將繼續努力透過雙邊協議出售更多電力。我認為這個季度的表現很穩健，我想，如果你把我們今天[拖]進門的合約算在內，電力和容量銷售額為 3.66 億美元，我們一直有這樣的季度，我認為我們的投資者將會非常高興。

Yes. Sure you definitely improved earnings visibility. And I know you've made similar comments before, which sounds impressive. We've had a lot of reports lately about these renewable projects being too expensive and not delivering certainly the margins that people had wanted. Finally, you said you had 4 of the 7 units that struggled. Are some of those units may be not going to be too high cost, if we keep seeing cost creep all over the country, not just you guys, obviously, with inflation and fuel and so forth?

是的。當然，您確實提高了盈利可見性。我知道你以前也發表過類似的評論，這聽起來很令人印象深刻。最近我們收到了很多關於這些再生能源項目太昂貴並且無法提供人們想要的利潤的報告。最後，您說 7 個單位中有 4 個陷入困境。如果我們不斷看到全國範圍內的成本攀升，那麼其中一些單位的成本是否可能不會太高，而不僅僅是你們，顯然，還有通貨膨脹和燃料等因素？

Yes, I thought it was interesting, there's been several mining companies that have reported before us, and it seemed like everybody had a tough operational third quarter. I'm not really sure why that is. I don't know if it was something about the -- a lot of humidity that came out of the mines. Has it cooled down? Or if it was just coincidence.

是的，我認為這很有趣，有幾家礦業公司在我們之前報告過，似乎每個人都經歷了一個艱難的第三季營運。我不太確定這是為什麼。我不知道這是否與礦井中散發出的大量濕氣有關。涼了嗎？或者如果這只是巧合。

But certainly, everybody has seen cost pressure due to inflation, but I really think the majority of what we had going on in this particular quarter and into October was geologic and specific to our mines. And I think that we have solved that problem. And I'm sorry that the quarter wasn't better from an operational cost point of view, but I hope -- I think, we've fixed the problem.

但當然，每個人都看到了通貨膨脹帶來的成本壓力，但我真的認為我們在這個特定季度和十月份發生的大部分事情都是地質方面的，並且是針對我們的礦山的。我認為我們已經解決了這個問題。我很抱歉，從營運成本的角度來看，本季並沒有好轉，但我希望——我認為我們已經解決了這個問題。

Great. Keep up the good work.

偉大的。保持良好的工作。

Our next question comes from Jason Lustig with J. Goldman.

我們的下一個問題來自 Jason Lustig 和 J. Goldman。

Just wanted to say thank you for increasing the disclosure in the contract table, really helps, I think as another caller said, just better understand the long-term economics of the company. So, appreciate that. As I've thought more about this table, I think we're getting a sense for what the future revenues of the company can look like, the 3 different revenue streams. We have a reasonable sense of the coal costs per ton, the fixed costs we've talked about in the past at the plant.

只是想說謝謝您在合約表中增加披露，確實有幫助，我認為正如另一位來電者所說，可以更好地了解公司的長期經濟狀況。所以，很欣賞這一點。當我對這張表進行了更多思考後，我認為我們對公司未來的收入（3 種不同的收入來源）有了一定的了解。我們對每噸煤炭成本有一個合理的認識，即我們過去在工廠討論過的固定成本。

One thing that I'm struggling a lot with and would appreciate trying to better understand is the variable costs per megawatt hour excluding fuel at the plant and how we should think about that over time.

我一直在努力解決並且希望更好地理解的一件事是每兆瓦時的可變成本（不包括工廠的燃料）以及隨著時間的推移我們應該如何考慮這一點。

Well, look, I mean, fuel is the majority of it. I think we've come out and said that during the quarter on a consolidated basis, variable costs, including fuel and nonfuel, was $23.50 per megawatt hour. So I don't think at this time we plan to break out what our nonfuel expense is. Quite frankly, I think we've got enough numbers that -- our goal was to not confuse everyone. Our goal was to create as much clarity as possible.

嗯，看，我的意思是，燃料佔了大部分。我想我們已經說過，在本季的綜合基礎上，包括燃料和非燃料在內的變動成本為每兆瓦時 23.50 美元。所以我認為目前我們不打算透露我們的非燃料費用是多少。坦白說，我認為我們已經掌握了足夠的數據——我們的目標是不讓所有人感到困惑。我們的目標是盡可能清晰。

And that's why we spent a lot of time on that table I referenced, in an effort to try to get everyone to understand, right, because it gets very confusing when you start pricing coal to yourself and you have these company -- intercompany eliminations, which is all GAAP, it's all the way it's supposed to be. But we're trying to clarify that, that, hey, at the bottom line, there's extreme -- it's just a great earnings potential at the power plant.

這就是為什麼我們在我提到的那個表格上花了很多時間，努力讓每個人都理解，對吧，因為當你開始給自己定價煤炭並且你有這些公司時，它會變得非常混亂- 公司間抵銷，這都是公認會計準則，一切都是它該有的樣子。但我們試圖澄清這一點，嘿，歸根結底，這是極端的——這只是發電廠巨大的獲利潛力。

And we hope everybody gets as excited about that as we are, particularly when our most recent pricing particularly on a risk-free basis, since it's unit contingent, it is quite profitable. And so anyhow, I appreciate your compliments on that. We're probably not on this call going to get into what our nonfuel costs are at this time.

我們希望每個人都像我們一樣對此感到興奮，特別是當我們最近的定價特別是在無風險的基礎上時，因為它是單位條件，所以它是相當有利可圖的。無論如何，我很感謝你對此的讚美。我們可能不會在這次電話會議上討論我們目前的非燃料成本是多少。

Okay. Okay. I appreciate that. If I flip to the coal operations segment of the 10-Q, I see this as $37 million in sales to the Merom plant that are eliminated in consolidation. And I would love to try and triangulate and better understand how that -- how I can reconcile that number with the $40.03 per megawatt hour cost at -- a variable cost at Merom and the $22.49 consolidated number. And maybe that can get us most of the way there for those who are on the outside and still confused.

好的。好的。我很感激。如果我轉向 10-Q 的煤炭營運部門，我認為 Merom 工廠的 3700 萬美元銷售額在合併中被消除了。我很樂意嘗試進行三角測量，並更好地理解如何將這個數字與 Merom 的每兆瓦時 40.03 美元的可變成本和 22.49 美元的綜合數字相協調。對於那些局外人仍然感到困惑的人來說，也許這可以幫助我們解決大部分問題。

I'm not 100% sure I understand that question.

我不能百分百確定我理解這個問題。

I'm trying to just -- we can do our own math, I guess, on the outside to try and allay any confusion. But I am trying to figure out how much -- I guess, what was the cost or the price of the coal that was transferred and what is the right number? Is it 0.5 million tons, which I think I saw somewhere else in the 10-Q. Is there some other number that I should be using for this quarter? I can...

我想，我們可以在外面自己做數學計算，試圖消除任何混亂。但我想弄清楚轉移的煤炭的成本或價格是多少，正確的數字是多少？是 50 萬噸嗎？我想我在 10-Q 的其他地方看到過。本季我還應該使用其他號碼嗎？我可以...

So everything -- and I'll give you -- I mean I'm not -- you guys can do the math, but here's the numbers. We sold coal to ourselves for $75, which is in the Q. So we have to eliminate that. And then our costs were 40-some -- I can't remember off the top of my head where they're at in the Q, but then our costs for the quarter were $46 I think. So that has to be -- that profit has to be eliminated as you sell the coal to yourself.

所以一切——我會給你們——我的意思是我不是——你們可以做數學計算，但這是數字。我們以 75 美元的價格向自己出售煤炭，這在 Q 中。所以我們必須消除這種情況。然後我們的成本是 40 美元左右——我記不清它們在 Q 中的位置，但我想我們這個季度的成本是 46 美元。所以，當你把煤炭賣給自己時，利潤就必須被消除。

Now we did burn, but it's not just what we sold in sales, it's what we actually burned. There's some sitting in inventory that got eliminated as well.

現在我們確實燒毀了，但這不僅僅是我們銷售的東西，而是我們實際燒毀的東西。庫存中也有一些被淘汰了。

Okay. All right. I think that gets me most of the way there.

好的。好的。我認為這讓我大部分時間都到達了那裡。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Tom Kerr with Zacks Investment Research.

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 Zacks Investment Research 的 Tom Kerr。

I think most of my questions were just covered. A couple of quick ones. As you guys continue to generate more free cash flow, refresh my memory if there's any restrictions on returning capital to shareholders through dividend, share buybacks, et cetera.

我想我的大部分問題都得到了解答。幾個快速的。當你們繼續產生更多的自由現金流時，如果透過股利、股票回購等方式向股東返還資本有任何限制，請刷新我的記憶。

Now at our current leverage ratio, we have no restrictions.

現在按照我們目前的槓桿率，我們沒有任何限制。

Okay. Great. And then lastly, you guys have indicated in the past that you may be looking for other power plants for acquisitions to add to the -- that side of the business. Is that still good? Is that still a plan or any opportunities out there you can mention?

好的。偉大的。最後，你們過去曾表示，你們可能正在尋找其他發電廠進行收購，以增加這方面的業務。那還好嗎？這仍然是一個計劃嗎？或者您可以提到任何機會嗎？

Well, nothing we can list specifically by name. We are always looking, and we think there's -- Hallador is in a unique spot to potentially take advantage of those opportunities. So certainly, we are looking.

好吧，我們無法具體列出任何名稱。我們一直在尋找，我們認為，哈拉多處於一個獨特的位置，有可能利用這些機會。所以當然，我們正在尋找。

Our next question comes from Lucas Pipes with B. Riley Securities.

我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley Securities 的 Lucas Pipes。

Just a few quick ones for me, First, Brent, in terms of struggling on the coal side, what exactly is meant by that? What happened?

對我來說，首先，布倫特，就煤炭方面的掙扎而言，這到底意味著什麼？發生了什麼事？

I think we just -- you have units that run into bad roof. It could be could be that you've got presence of water or sandstone coming in close contact or close location to the coal. And when we get that -- sometimes you can fight through that and get to the other side of it. And other times, you have to back up, move over. Sometimes you back up, move over, back up, move over a second time. And then there comes a point where you just say, you know what, I'm going to move to a different portion of the mine and tackle this from a different angle or a different point of view.

我認為我們只是——有些單位的屋頂很糟糕。可能是因為水或砂岩與煤炭緊密接觸或位置接近。當我們明白這一點時——有時你可以克服它並到達它的另一邊。而其他時候，你必須後退、移過去。有時你會倒退、移過去、再倒退、移過去。然後到了某個時刻，你就會說，你知道嗎，我要搬到礦井的另一個部分，從不同的角度或不同的觀點來解決這個問題。

Moving over and attacking it again, that's pretty common. That happens. Major moves to a different area, that's pretty uncommon, and particularly for 4 units in 1 particular quarter. So I think we want to say that it was significant. It was unusual. And we think that that's behind us.

移動過來然後再次攻擊，這是很常見的。那個會發生。大規模搬遷至不同區域的情況相當罕見，尤其是在一個特定季度內有 4 個單位。所以我認為我們想說這很重要。這很不尋常。我們認為這已經過去了。

Were all those 4 units working in close proximity when they encountered these difficulties?

遇到這些困難時，這4個單位是否都在近距離工作？

No.

不。

And the areas that you moved out of, are you going to move back towards them in due course? Or would you say, for the foreseeable future, it was just too tough, you don't want to go back there?

那麼你搬出的地區，你會在適當的時候搬回來嗎？或者你會說，在可預見的未來，那太艱難了，你不想再回到那裡？

Yes. I mean sometimes you just move around to the other side of it, right? There's -- there could be a good area of coal that can be a year or 2 of good mining and you just need to access that from a different location. So it's not -- I don't want you to lead you to believe that we're abandoning large portions of our reserve. That's not the case at all. We are just attacking it from a different point of view.

是的。我的意思是有時候你只是走到另一邊，對嗎？可能有一個很好的煤炭區域，可以進行一兩年的良好開採，而您只需要從不同的位置訪問它。所以這不是——我不想讓你們相信我們正在放棄我們的大部分儲備。事實並非如此。我們只是從不同的角度來攻擊它。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then I want to go back to your comments earlier on hedging versus bilateral agreements. And it sounded like there are certain advantages on these bilateral agreements. Does it come down to force majeure provisions? Is that really the difference?

知道了。好的。這很有幫助。然後我想回到您之前關於對沖與雙邊協議的評論。聽起來這些雙邊協議有一定的優勢。這是否歸結為不可抗力條款？這真的有差嗎？

No. I mean it's just -- it's pretty common to have either firm sales or unit contingent sales and a bilateral agreement with a particular customer is a very bespoke agreement. And it can have -- I would almost argue that no 2 agreements like that are exactly the same. Whereas, hey, if I'm just jumping on ice and buying or selling a power contract, that's a very cookie-cutter, fixed agreement, it's different. And it takes a lot more risk, right? You can get a margin call if you're on ice. I can't get a margin call for my customers. We have to have contingent power.

不，我的意思是，固定銷售或單位或有銷售是很常見的，與特定客戶簽訂的雙邊協議是一個非常客製化的協議。而且它可以——我幾乎認為沒有兩個這樣的協議是完全相同的。然而，嘿，如果我只是跳到冰上購買或出售電力合同，那是一個非常千篇一律的固定協議，那就不同了。而且這需要承擔更大的風險，對嗎？如果您處於凍結狀態，您可能會收到追加保證金通知。我無法為我的客戶追加保證金。我們必須有應急力量。

So from a risk perspective, I think we've put ourselves in a really good -- what we say is a good foundation of business. I don't know that we can sell all of our power under that particular format, so we'll see. All we're saying is that we had great success in this particular quarter, and we've got a great team that's out trying to get in situations that's both good for our customer and good for ourselves.

因此，從風險的角度來看，我認為我們已經為自己奠定了良好的業務基礎。我不知道我們是否可以在該特定格式下出售我們所有的電力，所以我們拭目以待。我們想說的是，我們在這個特定的季度取得了巨大的成功，我們擁有一支優秀的團隊，他們正在努力創造對我們的客戶和我們自己都有好處的情況。

And Lucas, to expand on that a little bit. Think of it as -- I mean, we say unit contingent, but we have guaranteed a certain percentage for the year. So we -- so if the unit goes down, we don't have to deliver on a unit contingent basis. And power could be very high that day and we don't get penalized. But then some of that, depending on the percentage, we may make up later at our contracted price. So you said force majeure, it's not really force majeure, but kind of.

盧卡斯，稍微擴充一下。我的意思是，我們說單位特遣隊，但我們保證了今年的一定比例。因此，如果該單位發生故障，我們不必按單位情況交付。那天的電量可能非常高，我們不會受到懲罰。但其中一些，根據百分比，我們可能會在以後按合約價格補足。所以你說不可抗力，這不是真正的不可抗力，而是一種不可抗力。

Got it. So the kind of the legal term would be there kind of, I think you said, unit contingent, right?

知道了。所以我想你說過，法律術語應該是單位特遣隊，對嗎？

Correct.

正確的。

That's helpful. And then yes, I really appreciate the disclosures. A quick question there on Page 18 of the Q. Contracted power revenue, that line shows 2024 $98.05 million. That's pretty clear. The item immediately underneath it, what's -- how is that derived exactly? Can you walk me through that, the 43.34, the revenue per megawatt hour? I don't -- clearly doesn't assume the $6 million. So I kind of struggle a bit to back into that.

這很有幫助。是的，我真的很感謝這些披露。 Q. 合約電力收入第 18 頁上有一個簡短的問題，該行顯示 2024 年為 9805 萬美元。這很清楚。緊接著它下面的項目是什麼——它到底是如何得出的？您能幫我解釋一下 43.34，也就是每兆瓦時的收入嗎？我不——顯然不假設 600 萬美元。所以我有點掙扎著要回到這一點。

78% of 6 million. So Lucas, that is the actual -- that's contract, what we have contracted for the year, which is 78% of [6 million].

600萬的78%。盧卡斯，這就是實際的合同，我們今年簽訂的合同，佔 [600 萬] 的 78%。

Got it. Okay. So it's not based on the 6 million, that's based on -- you make the assumption you're running at you said 78% of the 6 million?

知道了。好的。所以它不是基於 600 萬，而是基於——你假設你所說的 600 萬中的 78%？

Well, it's what we have -- we don't have 6 million contracted. We have 6 million we can provide. So the 98 million is what we have contracted.

嗯，這就是我們所擁有的——我們沒有 600 萬合約。我們可以提供 600 萬。所以9800萬就是我們簽的。

Yes.

是的。

For total -- that's total capacity and energy.

總計——即總容量和能量。

Correct. And the line underneath it, the $43.34 million, what...

正確的。而它下面的那條線，4334萬美元，是什麼…

How much revenue we're -- how much revenue we're going to get on our contracted megawatts.

我們的收入是多少——我們將從合約兆瓦上獲得多少收入。

But you have only 1.6 million contracted now?

但你們現在簽約的才160萬？

But that includes capacity and power.

但這包括能力和力量。

Got it. Okay.

知道了。好的。

I think what we're showing here is...

我想我們在這裡展示的是...

[43.65] divided by 78% of 6 million, [9 32], plus $34.

[43.65] 除以 600 萬的 78%，[9 32]，加上 34 美元。

Yes, maybe we can take that off-line, but I appreciate it. I think I know where this is going. But maybe one quick follow-up. You have only 1.6 million of output contracted, right?

是的，也許我們可以把它離線，但我很感激。我想我知道這是怎麼回事。但也許是一個快速的後續行動。你們合約的產量只有160萬吧？

Correct.

正確的。

And so I mean, the capacity payment, you can still -- you have capacity payments, but you can still generate revenue on top of that though.

所以我的意思是，你仍然可以支付容量費用，但你仍然可以在此基礎上產生收入。

Absolutely. So we have 4.4 million megawatt hours of power that we can still contract.

絕對地。因此，我們仍然可以簽署 440 萬兆瓦時的電力。

Yes. Makes sense. Really appreciate all the color, and again, best of luck. Thank you.

是的。說得通。真的很欣賞所有的顏色，再次祝你好運。謝謝。

Our next question comes from [Roger Zigler] who is a Private Investor.

我們的下一個問題來自[Roger Zigler]，他是一位私人投資者。

Congrats on a strong quarter despite some obstacle, guys. My question is, I've not had a chance to delve into the Section 3, you said it's related to power in general, this exciting new market. Am I reading the release just posted -- one of the tables that in 2024 you've got 27% of your power priced? Is that correct, from the basic -- the non-GAAP table that was provided in...

夥計們，儘管存在一些障礙，但還是祝賀季度表現強勁。我的問題是，我還沒有機會深入研究第 3 部分，你說它與一般的電力有關，這個令人興奮的新市場。我是否正在閱讀剛發布的新聞稿——其中一張表格顯示，到 2024 年，您的電價將達到 27%？從基本的角度來看，這是正確的——中提供的非公認會計準則表格嗎？

At $34, yes.

34 美元，是的。

Yes, that's correct.

對，那是正確的。

So you've got 83% left to, potentially, there'd be some windfall times in there, if possible, right? When you get some extremes either way, as you said, that's pretty exciting?

所以你還有 83% 的時間，如果可能的話，可能會有一些意外之財，對嗎？正如你所說，當你遇到一些極端情況時，那是相當令人興奮的嗎？

That would be 73%. So basically, what we're saying -- yes. We've got 27%, let's just call it fourth around that. We've got a fourth price and we've got another 2/3 or 3/4 that we're open to -- we bid into the market every day. And the prices can be high and prices can be low and prices can be so low that we take the unit offline. But we think we're heading into -- we're heading into winter. And that typically historically has been some of the better pricing. So we'll see what December, January and February bring.

那將是73%。基本上，我們所說的是——是的。我們有 27%，姑且稱之為第四吧。我們有第四個價格，還有另外 2/3 或 3/4 可供我們選擇——我們每天都在市場上出價。價格可以高，也可以低，價格可以低到我們將設備下線。但我們認為我們正在進入冬天。從歷史上看，這通常是一些更好的定價。所以我們將看看 12 月、1 月和 2 月會帶來什麼。

But also, we have of our capacity -- we have 78% of our capacity sold for next year, which if we sell 100% of our capacity, we think that will cover the majority of our fixed costs.

而且，我們還有產能——明年我們將出售 78% 的產能，如果我們出售 100% 的產能，我們認為這將涵蓋我們的大部分固定成本。

And a real general question you may or may not be willing to answer, but kind of a basic high-level question. Is -- are you finding a very strong correlation to the nat gas market for power as it is with coal?

這是一個真正的一般性問題，您可能願意也可能不願意回答，但這是一個基本的高階問題。您是否發現天然氣電力市場與煤炭市場有強烈的相關性？

Yes. I mean there's a lot of gas generation in MISO. And so if gas prices are cheap, those units -- those gas units can produce cheap power, and we have to compete against that, to a certain point, because once load exceeds gas generation, then coal is going to compete against coal. Or if gas prices go high as they did last -- in 2022, then you'll see coal potentially dispatch in front of gas and gas will take the upper end of the market. But pricing today on gas is pretty cheap.

是的。我的意思是味噌中會產生大量氣體。因此，如果天然氣價格便宜，這些裝置——這些天然氣裝置可以產生廉價的電力，我們必須在某種程度上與之競爭，因為一旦負載超過天然氣發電量，那麼煤炭將與煤炭競爭。或者，如果天然氣價格像上次那樣走高（2022 年），那麼您將看到煤炭可能排在天然氣之前，而天然氣將佔據市場的高端。但今天的天然氣價格相當便宜。

Right. The coal-to-gas switching thing and vice versa, right, it's always in play, right? Sorry, one last question on this topic then, should -- one last question on this topic, perhaps. Should we -- regarding, again, the power market, are you mostly correlated to the Chicago hub, MISO hub, and even the nat gas in some way? Or is it more of -- like this summer with record heat throughout Texas or in the South for upwards of a month, were you able to capitalize on that this past summer? Or is it more of a regional, say -- through Chicago, should we think of it in those terms?

正確的。煤改氣的事情，反之亦然，對吧，它總是在發揮作用，對吧？抱歉，關於這個主題的最後一個問題，也許應該是關於這個主題的最後一個問題。再一次，關於電力市場，我們是否應該以某種方式與芝加哥樞紐、MISO 樞紐甚至天然氣有關？或者更多的是——就像今年夏天，德州或南部地區創紀錄的高溫持續了一個月以上，你能在去年夏天利用這一點嗎？或者它更像是一個區域性的，比如說——透過芝加哥，我們應該用這些術語來思考它嗎？

Yes, it's definitely more important what the weather is Indiana through Chicago. And the gas price is closest to us matters the most, which, in that case, Chicago Citygate is one marker that we look at for sure.

是的，印第安納州到芝加哥的天氣絕對更重要。與我們最接近的汽油價格是最重要的，在這種情況下，芝加哥東薈城是我們肯定會關注的標誌。

You weathered a bad summer that way. Chicago was as mild as it's been forever, right? And we're right south of you (inaudible), right? I mean I...

你就這樣度過了一個糟糕的夏天。芝加哥一如既往地溫和，對嗎？我們就在你的南邊（聽不清楚），對吧？我的意思是我...

Well, I think, look, we are very encouraged in that where there's a lot of new industrial demand showing up in the Midwest. Europe has had basically an energy crisis since the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And that's causing a lot of re-onshoring industry. I was with politicians yesterday who, more than 1 said, look, Indiana has a great business climate, we're not sure if we have enough people, and we're not sure if we have enough power.

嗯，我認為，看，我們對中西部出現大量新的工業需求感到非常鼓舞。自俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭以來，歐洲基本上陷入了能源危機。這導致了許多行業的回流。昨天我和政治家們在一起，超過 1 個人說，看，印第安納州有很好的商業環境，我們不確定我們是否有足夠的人口，我們不確定我們是否有足夠的權力。

And so Hallador being long power likes to be in that scenario. We like where we're at. There's going to be some volatility to our earnings because we are -- we do have a large open power position, and that is subject to market movements.

因此，哈拉多（Hallador）作為多頭力量喜歡處於這種情況。我們喜歡我們現在所處的位置。我們的收益將會出現一些波動，因為我們確實擁有大量的未平倉權力頭寸，而這會受到市場波動的影響。

That would be great. And there's a high end, there's a low end. But I think, by and large, on average, we'll do really, really well. That's why we like the base of business that we're putting under it with our forward contracted sales. And we're encouraged by the most recent pricing -- we're encouraged by the most recent pricing that we saw at $56 a megawatt hour for multiple years.

那太好了。而且有高端，也有低端。但我認為，總的來說，平均而言，我們會做得非常非常好。這就是為什麼我們喜歡我們透過遠期合約銷售所建立的業務基礎。我們對最新的定價感到鼓舞——我們對多年來看到的每兆瓦時 56 美元的最新定價感到鼓舞。

Those were all the questions we have for today. So I'll turn the call back to Brent for closing remarks.

這些就是我們今天要問的所有問題。因此，我將把電話轉回給布倫特，讓其結束語。

Yes, I want to thank everyone for taking the time to dial in and having interest in Hallador. And we're excited, very excited, about the future and what the Power division is finally starting to show everyone its capabilities of. And we look forward to more exciting quarters to come. Thank you.

是的，我要感謝大家花時間撥打並對 Hallador 感興趣。我們對未來以及電源部門終於開始向大家展示其能力感到非常興奮。我們期待未來更加令人興奮的季度。謝謝。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. This concludes our call, and you may now disconnect your lines.

謝謝大家今天加入我們。我們的通話到此結束，您現在可以斷開線路了。