Hallador Energy Co (HNRG) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the Hallador Energy Company's announces fourth-quarter 2023 earnings call. My name is Harry, and I'll be your coordinator today. (Operator Instructions) Now I'd now like to turn the call over to Becky Palumbo, Investor Relations, to begin, please go ahead.

您好，歡迎參加哈拉多能源公司宣布的 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。我叫哈利，今天我將擔任你們的協調員。（操作員說明）現在我想將電話轉給投資者關係部門的貝基·帕倫博（Becky Palumbo），請繼續。

Thank you, Harold, and good morning and our GP Call for the Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2023. With me today are Brent Bilsland, our President and CEO, and Larry Martin, our CFO. Yesterday afternoon, Hallador released its fourth quarter and full year 2023 financial. In a press release. Today, we will discuss those results as well as our perspective on current market conditions and outlook for 2024. Following our prepared remarks, we will open the call to answer your questions.

謝謝哈羅德，早上好，還有我們 2023 年第四季和全年的全科醫生電話會議。今天與我在一起的有我們的總裁兼執行長布倫特·比爾斯蘭 (Brent Bilsland) 和我們的財務長拉里·馬丁 (Larry Martin)。昨天下午，Hallador 發布了第四季和 2023 年全年財務報告。在新聞稿中。今天，我們將討論這些結果以及我們對當前市場狀況和 2024 年前景的看法。在我們準備好的發言之後，我們將召開電話會議來回答您的問題。

Before beginning a reminder that some of our remarks today may include forward-looking statements subject to a variety of risks, uncertainties and assumptions contained in our filings from time to time with the Securities and Exchange Commission and are also reflected in yesterday's press release. While these forward-looking statements are based on information currently available to us, if one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize or if our underlying assumptions prove incorrect, it was a great period from those we projected or expected CGR Hallador has no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future results or otherwise, unless Rick. Lastly, Hallador will file our Form 10 K sometime this week.

在開始之前提醒您，我們今天的一些言論可能包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到我們不時向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中包含的各種風險、不確定性和假設的影響，並且也反映在昨天的新聞稿中。雖然這些前瞻性陳述是基於我們目前掌握的信息，但如果這些風險或不確定性中的一項或多項成為現實，或者如果我們的基本假設被證明是不正確的，那麼與我們預測或預期的情況相比，這是一個很好的時期，CGR Hallador 沒有義務公開更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述，無論是由於新資訊、未來結果還是其他原因，除非瑞克。最後，Hallador 將於本周某個時間提交 10 K 表格。

And with that, with that, I will turn the call over to Larry Becky.

就這樣，我就把電話轉給拉里·貝基。

Good afternoon, everyone. Before we get started, I would like to make a definition of adjusted EBITDA as operating cash flows less the effects of certain subsidiaries and equity method investment activity plus bank interest, less the effects of working capital period changes plus cash paid on asset retirement obligation recommendations plus other amortizations. For the fourth quarter, Hallador incurred net in or a net loss of $10.2 million or $0.31 basic earnings per share and $0.27 for diluted earnings per share for the year ended December 20 or December 31st, 23, we had $44.8 million of net income for $1.35 per basic earnings per share and $1.25 for diluted earnings per share. We had adjusted EBITDA of $1.7 million for the quarter and $107.3 million for the year. We increased our bank by 29.8 million for the quarter and $6.3 million for the year. Our funded bank debt as of the end of December 31st, was $91.5 million. Our letters of credit were $18.6 million. Our net funded bank debt was 88.7 million. Our leverage ratio four Our debt to adjusted EBITDA was 1.3 times at the end of the year.

大家下午好。在我們開始之前，我想將調整後的EBITDA 定義為經營現金流量減去某些子公司和權益法投資活動的影響加上銀行利息，減去營運資金期限變化的影響加上資產報廢義務建議支付的現金加上其他攤提。截至2020年12月20日或23年12月31日的第四季度，Hallador的淨收入或淨虧損為1020萬美元，即每股基本收益0.31美元，稀釋每股收益0.27美元，我們的淨利潤為4480萬美元，淨利潤為1.35美元。每股基本收益和稀釋每股收益 1.25 美元。我們調整後的季度 EBITDA 為 170 萬美元，全年調整後 EBITDA 為 1.073 億美元。本季我們的銀行資金增加了 2,980 萬美元，全年增加了 630 萬美元。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的融資銀行債務為 9,150 萬美元。我們的信用證金額為 1860 萬美元。我們的銀行債務淨額為 8,870 萬美元。我們的槓桿比率 4 截至年底，我們的負債與調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 1.3 倍。

I will now turn the call over to Brent Bilsland, our CEO.

我現在將把電話轉給我們的執行長布倫特·比爾斯蘭 (Brent Bilsland)。

Thank you, Larry. First, I'd like to thank the Hallador team for their hard work and dedication on finishing a solid year for our company. While the fourth quarter highlighted some operational challenges and the episodic nature of our power revenues. I don't want those challenges to overshadow the positive year that we had as a company in addition to near record margins in our on our coal division for the full year. The continued integration of Hallador power into our portfolio was a springboard to record net income, our highest revenues ever, and a future sales book that is approaching 1.5 billion and continues to grow as demand for energy and capacity increase. We are seeing success in selling Contracted Contingent energy at excellent prices and in light of that we are also focusing on capital expenditures to prepare the plant to support those contracts in future years. We are also very excited about a recently signed agreement and an structure with Hoosier energy and their distribution member within REMC that should allow us to attract industrial users of power such as data centers, AI. providers and power dense manufacturers to the Merrem property. We believe leveraging our plant to help supply these large users of energy should allow us to operate the plant more efficiently in a volatile Power Environment and generate increased margins at or above what we can achieve in our in the traditional wholesale market, we are already seeing increased interest and excitement around the prospect of this type of offering. If we succeed in attracting high-powered demand customer through this structure, it moves Hallador up the electricity value chain, providing additional margin and stability to our earnings for years to come. Combined with our increased volume before power sales. We believe these types of opportunities will continue to improve the long-term outlook for the Company and provide a stable platform to leverage both our power and coal assets in a responsible, sustainable and profitable manner. We have been very deliberate in structuring these bilateral sales contracts to limit our exposure to unplanned. And for that matter, plant outages and other unexpected challenges and what we expect to be an increasingly volatile power market negotiating deals. And this way protects us from downside risks. But it's also extremely bespoke process we'll take significantly more time than simply agreeing to firm power contracts and accepting that additional risk. The offshoot of this is that while we methodically build our sales book, we are subject to the whims of the spot power market and more specifically to the weather and other factors impacting short-term electrical demand. As we saw throughout the last several months, when you have 60 and 70 degree days in winter. The typical energy prices we would expect to get get see get thrown out the window and you end up in a situation where the plant simply does not dispatch. Continued depression of natural gas prices exacerbated this issue, and our fourth core quarter results were impacted by all of these factors. And as an example, while the average spot price for energy at Mirum was around $69 in 2022, the mild winter and low gas pricing drove the average price down to about $31 in 2023. Spot market pricing really highlights the importance of the longer-term contracts that we continue to put in place, especially as we continue to spend CapEx to ready the plant to support those sales. Since January of 2023, we have contracted nearly $500 million in future energy and capacity deals. Many of these deals extend through 2028 with the higher contracted prices occurring in 26, 27 and 28.

謝謝你，拉里。首先，我要感謝 Hallador 團隊的辛勤工作和奉獻精神，為我們公司完成了堅實的一年。第四季凸顯了一些營運挑戰和我們電力收入的間歇性。我不希望這些挑戰掩蓋我們作為一家公司所取得的正面成果，以及我們煤炭部門全年接近創紀錄的利潤率。Hallador 電力持續整合到我們的產品組合中，成為創紀錄淨利潤、我們有史以來最高收入以及未來銷售額接近 15 億美元並隨著能源和產能需求增加而持續增長的跳板。我們看到以優惠價格銷售合約或有能源方面取得了成功，鑑於此，我們還重點關注資本支出，為工廠做好準備，以支持未來幾年的這些合約。我們也對最近與 Hoosier energy 及其 REMC 分銷成員簽署的協議和結構感到非常興奮，這將使我們能夠吸引資料中心、人工智慧等電力工業用戶。 Merrem 地產的供應商和電力密集型製造商。我們相信，利用我們的工廠來幫助向這些大型用戶提供能源應該使我們能夠在不穩定的電力環境中更有效地運營工廠，並產生高於或高於我們在傳統批發市場上可以實現的利潤率，我們已經看到人們對此類產品的前景越來越感興趣和興奮。如果我們透過這種結構成功吸引高需求客戶，哈拉多將在電力價值鏈上向上移動，為我們未來幾年的收入提供額外的利潤和穩定性。結合我們售電前增加的銷售量。我們相信，這些類型的機會將繼續改善公司的長期前景，並提供一個穩定的平台，以負責任、可持續和盈利的方式利用我們的電力和煤炭資產。我們在製定這些雙邊銷售合約時非常謹慎，以限制我們遭受計劃外風險的風險。就此而言，工廠停電和其他意外挑戰以及我們預計電力市場談判交易將日益波動。這種方式可以保護我們免受下行風險的影響。但這也是一個極其客製化的過程，我們將花費比簡單地同意固定電力合約並接受額外風險更多的時間。其後果是，雖然我們有條不紊地建立我們的銷售帳簿，但我們會受到現貨電力市場的反复無常的影響，更具體地說，會受到天氣和其他影響短期電力需求的因素的影響。正如我們在過去幾個月中看到的那樣，冬天有 60 度和 70 度的日子。我們期望看到的典型能源價格被拋到了窗外，最終導致電廠根本不調度。天然氣價格的持續低迷加劇了這個問題，我們第四個核心季度的業績受到所有這些因素的影響。舉例來說，雖然 2022 年 Mirum 的平均能源現貨價格約為 69 美元，但溫和的冬季和較低的天然氣價格導致 2023 年平均價格降至 31 美元左右。現貨市場定價確實凸顯了我們繼續簽訂的長期合約的重要性，特別是當我們繼續花費資本支出來準備工廠以支持這些銷售時。自 2023 年 1 月以來，我們已簽訂了近 5 億美元的未來能源和產能交易合約。其中許多交易延續至 2028 年，而較高的合約價格發生在 26、27 和 28 年。

In addition to the fourth quarter challenges at Mero, we also continue to fight against geology, inflationary pressure and operational challenges in our coal division, alongside the continued retreat of the coal markets from the largely elevated pricing of the last couple of years in response to these changing events, we took steps to support liquidity and to increase the efficiency of our operations. In December, we implemented an at-the-market offering program under our existing shelf registration statement as a tool to fund any short term financing needs under the ATM. We sold approximately 800,000 shares of Hallador stock in December of 23 and raised approximately 7.3 million of equity. We sold an additional 700,000 shares or so of Hallador stock January in January of 2024 and raised an additional 6.6 million. In addition, in February, several members of our Board further bolstered our liquidity through unsecured one-year notes totaling 5 million. We are also starting to see capacity revenue come in which in combination with the items I just discussed, will add to the liquidity position and give us additional optionality as strategic opportunities like hedging acquisition or other ways to improve our balance sheet present themselves. Our near-term actions to improve liquidity will be done in a prudent and strategic manner to respond to changing events or to take advantage of market opportunities in further of our long-term outlook in February, we also restructured or restructured our coal operations in an initiative designed to add efficiency to our operations and create higher margins in our coal segment. As part of this initiative, we idled production at our higher cost Prosperity mine and substantially idled production at the free landfill mine where we expect to finish reclamation late in the second quarter of 2020 for these moves should reduce our capital reinvestment for coal production in 2024 by approximately 10 million, thus reducing CapEx for our coal division from 35 million to approximately 25 million. We are also focusing our seven units of underground equipment on four units of our lowest cost productions at Oaktown as part of this initiative, we reduced our workforce by approximately 110 employees, which we expect to start creating OpEx savings once the warranty period expires in the second quarter. While this was a difficult decision on a personal level. It was the right thing to do for the Company, and we believe that it will improve our operational efficiency relatively quickly by focusing on our most efficient mining and highest margin coal, we expect to produce about 4.5 million tons annually of higher margin coal as compared to 6 million historical tons of production at the hotel mining complex. Additionally, in 2024, we have secured supplemental coal from third party suppliers at favorable prices. This allows us to diversify self production supply risk and provides us with additional flexibility in our sales portfolio, the optionality to obtain low cost tons, either internally or from third parties, while capturing upward swings in commodity markets for coal and electricity should further maximize margins while optimizing fuel costs. Amiram as we enter the traditionally mild spring seasonal electricity prices could remain weak. However, we remain excited about the transformation of Hallador from a commodity focused producer of coal to a vertically integrated independent power producer. We believe that this transition provides significant opportunity to capture the increased margins of the energy markets to take advantage of the soaring demand for electricity and to step up the value chain in a more sustainable and future proved industry that which we have traditionally our bent that of which we have traditionally operated in, as evidenced by the ongoing build of our long term sales book. This deliberate movement into the electricity sector should materially strengthen our company and the products that we sell.

除了梅羅在第四季度面臨的挑戰外，我們還繼續應對煤炭部門的地質、通膨壓力和營運挑戰，同時煤炭市場因過去幾年大幅上漲的定價而持續回落。這些變化的事件，我們採取措施支持流動性並提高我們的營運效率。12 月，我們根據現有的貨架註冊聲明實施了一項市場發行計劃，作為為 ATM 下的任何短期融資需求提供資金的工具。我們於 12 月 23 日出售了約 80 萬股 Hallador 股票，籌集了約 730 萬股股本。2024 年 1 月，我們額外出售了約 70 萬股 Hallador 股票，並籌集了 660 萬股。此外，2月份，我們的幾位董事會成員透過總額為500萬張的無擔保一年期票據進一步增強了我們的流動性。我們也開始看到容量收入的出現，與我剛才討論的項目相結合，將增加流動性狀況，並為我們提供額外的選擇權，作為對沖收購或其他改善資產負債表的方式等戰略機會。我們的近期改善流動性的行動將以審慎和策略性的方式進行，以應對不斷變化的事件或利用市場機會進一步展望我們的長期前景。2月份，我們也對煤炭業務進行了重組或重構。該計劃旨在提高我們的營運效率並在煤炭領域創造更高的利潤。作為該計劃的一部分，我們閒置了成本較高的繁榮礦井的生產，並大幅閒置了免費垃圾填埋礦井的生產，我們預計該礦井將在2020 年第二季度末完成復墾，因為這些舉措將減少我們2024 年煤炭生產的資本再投資約 1,000 萬美元，從而將我們煤炭部門的資本支出從 3,500 萬美元減少到約 2,500 萬美元。作為該計劃的一部分，我們還將我們的7 台地下設備集中在Oaktown 的4 台成本最低的生產設備上，我們減少了大約110 名員工，我們預計一旦保固期到期，我們將開始節省營運支出。第二季。雖然這對個人而言是一個艱難的決定。這對公司來說是正確的做法，我們相信，透過專注於我們最高效的開採和利潤率最高的煤炭，這將相對較快地提高我們的營運效率，我們預計每年將生產約450 萬噸利潤率較高的煤炭。飯店採礦綜合體的歷史產量達 600 萬噸。此外，2024 年，我們以優惠的價格從第三方供應商獲得了補充煤炭。這使我們能夠分散自產供應風險，並為我們的銷售組合提供額外的靈活性，可以選擇從內部或從第三方獲得低成本噸，同時抓住煤炭和電力商品市場的上升趨勢，應進一步實現利潤最大化同時優化燃料成本。阿米拉姆，隨著我們進入傳統上溫和的春季季節性電價可能會保持疲軟。然而，我們仍然對哈拉多從以大宗商品為主的煤炭生產商轉型為垂直整合的獨立電力生產商感到興奮。我們相信，這一轉變提供了重要的機會，可以抓住能源市場不斷增長的利潤，利用不斷飆升的電力需求，並在一個更加可持續和麵向未來的行業中加強價值鏈，我們傳統上一直致力於這一行業的發展。這是我們傳統上經營的業務，我們長期銷售帳簿的持續建設就證明了這一點。這種有意進軍電力產業的舉措應該會實質地增強我們的公司和我們銷售的產品。

As I said at the start of my comments, despite a challenging quarter, I'm very pleased with our annual results and the continued evolution of Hallador as a company.

正如我在評論開始時所說，儘管這個季度充滿挑戰，但我對我們的年度業績以及 Hallador 作為一家公司的持續發展感到非常滿意。

That concludes our prepared remarks. I'll now open the line up for questions.

我們準備好的演講到此結束。我現在開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Lucas Pipes, B. Riley Lucas.

（操作員說明）Lucas Pipes，B. Riley Lucas。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Very much operator.

非常多的運營商。

Good afternoon, everyone, and good afternoon with Brent. I have first wanted to I'll touch on the liquidity and how you think about it. So is the ATM a little bit late last year. Earlier this year there were the unsecured notes. Did you manage to a minimum cash balance or minimum liquidity balance? I would appreciate your thoughts on that.

大家下午好，布倫特下午好。我首先想談談流動性以及你如何看待它。去年晚些時候，ATM機也是如此。今年早些時候出現了無擔保票據。您是否達到了最低現金餘額或最低流動性餘額？我很感激你對此的想法。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, I think, look, we are in this until we finish filling out our sales book, which we think we have enormous opportunities in front of us to add to that position this year. There's a lot of RFPs out a lot of interest. But in the meantime, we're very subject to spot prices of power, which is very much influenced by the weather or lack thereof. So when we think about liquidity, you can you can never have too much right now. But that being said, I mean, we are our Board of Directors owns roughly 31% of the shares. And so our interests are very much aligned with the shareholders because we are substantial shareholders, including myself. And so it's a balance we have to look at what do we think power prices will be for the year? And how much liquidity do we need to fulfill our obligations of improving the plants and keeping the coal mines up in tip-top shape, we probably had about as much because could go wrong and or fourth quarters went wrong, right? We had half the plant offline part of that was planned, and part of that was off UnPlan. We had moved a lot of equipment around that. The coal mines are trying to get all seven units in better production. And finally, in February decided, you know, we were going to our focus on our four best units of production and we were going to buy some coal from third parties and so there's just a lot that goes into that question. I don't think we have an exact target number. I think it's more we're looking at our sales book and what the opportunities are and where we can get comfortable with margins locked in contractually and managing liquidity until we reach that point in the road.

好吧，我想，看，我們會一直這樣做，直到我們完成銷售手冊的填寫，我們認為今年我們有巨大的機會來增加這個職位。有很多 RFP 引起了極大的興趣。但同時，我們非常容易受到電力現貨價格的影響，這在很大程度上受到天氣或缺乏天氣的影響。因此，當我們考慮流動性時，你現在永遠不會擁有太多。但話雖這麼說，我的意思是，我們的董事會擁有約 31% 的股份。因此，我們的利益與股東非常一致，因為我們是大股東，包括我自己。因此，我們必須考慮今年的電價會是多少，這是一個平衡點？我們需要多少流動性來履行改善工廠和保持煤礦處於最佳狀態的義務，我們可能有那麼多流動性，因為可能會出現問題，或者第四季度會出現問題，對嗎？我們有一半的工廠處於離線狀態，其中一部分是計畫內的，一部分是計畫外的。我們已經圍繞它移動了很多設備。煤礦正在努力提高所有七個機組的產量。最後，在二月我們決定，我們將把重點放在四個最好的生產單位上，我們將從第三方購買一些煤炭，所以這個問題涉及很多內容。我認為我們沒有確切的目標數字。我認為我們更多的是關注我們的銷售記錄，以及機會是什麼，以及我們可以在哪裡對合約鎖定的利潤感到滿意，並管理流動性，直到我們達到這一目標。

Got it.

知道了。

Really appreciate really appreciate that and, Turning a bit to on kind of the Q1 outlook. You already mentioned the weather hasn't been supportive. What what what insights would you be able to provide here at this point as it relates to the Q. one arm, but how much of those issues kind of continued into the quarter? It sounds like, David, at least on the coal side, on and for the full year, what sort of volumes should we should we anticipate it at this point?

真的很感激真的很感激，並且，稍微談談第一季的前景。你已經提到天氣不太好。此時您能夠提供與 Q.one 部門相關的見解嗎？但是這些問題中有多少持續到了本季度？聽起來，大衛，至少在煤炭方面，全年，我們現在應該預期什麼樣的產量？

And then on the on the power side, is that part of the discussion around kind of filling out the sales book? Or was that really release more more more in because Thank you very much.

然後在權力方面，討論的一部分是圍繞填寫銷售手冊嗎？或者說真的發布了更多更多更多內容，因為非常感謝。

All right.

好的。

So I'm not sure I got your questions, Lucas, on the sales book, where we see opportunities, look, the market is short capacity, right? We've seen these power-generation supply has been relatively flat for about 20 years. And then we've been in this transition period of maybe a decade of closing baseload and replacing it with non dispatchable resources that have shrunk the accredited capacity. And I mean, by So says they've got some reports out that say in the next couple of years as people retire assets as announced, you know, the reserve margins go negative so that, you know, that won't happen. So but it just kind of shows how tight the situation has become from a generation point of view, particularly in MISO. And now you add in this explosion of AI right. I mean the growth in that industry is just kind of unprecedented, right? And there's all sorts of reports in final. I don't really know which numbers you believe, but essentially these are these companies that are trying to it's a race to develop AI if they can't find places to plug it in. So they're short capacity. We have to be long capacity. And this is this is kind of happening everywhere, right? We've talked to a lot of different utilities about where they have interest in selling their other plants to us and and there's always some interest out there. But what's also been surprising is how many have said, yes, we know we show retirement date and we're going to push that out because we're seeing all of this new demand suddenly show up from manufacturing from Europe from AI. from EV.s. So it's a long-term trend from us. We are extremely bullish short term. We're depending on whether in the spot market until we fill this book out. But there are major RFPs out right now for for power and capacity. And we feel we have a high probability of success in obtaining some of that. We are extremely excited about this new structure. We were able to get the Hoosier and win REMC to work with us on. I've tried to attract high high demand users of power to our site because we feel that look either that's going to offer us better terms than we can get in the wholesale market. We're not going to do it, but we feel just from the early indications and please keep in mind, we signed this agreement like a week ago. So we're early in this process, but we will be running an RFP to see who's interested in locating our site and can we get terms that are better than what we see in the long-term wholesale market, certainly you're going to see us add to both positions. And I hope this year in a very meaningful way on the coal side of the business you know, Mariner is a significant customer of our Sunrise Coal division. And if you look, you'll see in the 10 K when we release that we went ahead and contracted that business to ourselves, just trying to add more clarity and set that price out for the next handful of years. And we do that. It really kind of shows that materially for the next four years where we're extremely well hedged or sold contracted on the on the coal side of the business. So so I think that answer to your questions, I can't remember what the third was very helpful.

所以我不確定我是否得到了你的問題，盧卡斯，關於銷售手冊，我們在銷售手冊中看到了機會，看，市場產能短缺，對吧？我們看到這些發電供應在大約 20 年來相對穩定。然後我們經歷了大約十年的過渡期，關閉基本負載並用不可調度的資源取代它，這些資源縮小了認可的容量。我的意思是，所以說他們已經得到了一些報告，說在未來幾年裡，隨著人們按照宣布的方式退休資產，準備金率將變為負數，因此，你知道，這種情況不會發生。所以，但這只是從一代人的角度來看，情況已經變得多麼緊張，特別是在 MISO 領域。現在你還可以加入人工智慧的爆炸性成長。我的意思是該行業的成長是前所未有的，對吧？最後還有各種各樣的報告。我真的不知道你相信哪個數字，但本質上這些公司正在嘗試開發人工智慧，如果他們找不到插入人工智慧的地方。所以他們的能力不足。我們必須有長能力。這種事到處都在發生，對嗎？我們已經與許多不同的公用事業公司討論了他們有興趣將其他工廠出售給我們的情況，並且總是有一些興趣。但同樣令人驚訝的是，有多少人說，是的，我們知道我們顯示了退休日期，我們將推遲這一日期，因為我們看到所有這些新需求突然出現在歐洲製造業的人工智慧領域。來自 EV.s。所以這是我們的長期趨勢。我們非常看好短期。在我們填寫這本書之前，我們將取決於是否在現貨市場。但目前已經有關於電力和容量的主要徵求建議書。我們認為我們很有可能成功實現其中一些目標。我們對這個新結構感到非常興奮。我們能夠獲得 Hoosier 並贏得 REMC 與我們合作。我試圖吸引高需求的電力用戶訪問我們的網站，因為我們認為這將為我們提供比批發市場更好的條件。我們不會這樣做，但我們從早期跡象來看，請記住，我們一周前就簽署了這份協議。因此，我們還處於這個過程的早期階段，但我們將運行一個RFP，看看誰有興趣定位我們的網站，以及我們能否獲得比我們在長期批發市場上看到的更好的條款，當然，您會請參閱我們新增到這兩個位置。我希望今年在煤炭業務方面以一種非常有意義的方式，你知道，Mariner 是我們 Sunrise Coal 部門的重要客戶。如果你看一下，你會在 10 K 中看到，當我們發佈時，我們繼續將這項業務承包給我們自己，只是試圖增加更多的清晰度並為未來幾年設定價格。我們就是這麼做的。這確實表明，在接下來的四年裡，我們在煤炭業務方面的對沖或銷售合約非常好。所以我認為對你的問題的回答，我不記得第三個是非常有幫助的。

But the third one was on the outlook for Q1 and the full year. I do have another question on the MOUs maybe And since you mentioned it, I'll raise this first and is this an MOU for behind-the-meter power essentially? And then how quickly do you think you could see something materialize? And I'd assume you'd have some construction that would need to take place to build out of a data center. What have you so kind of best case when when could you supply power to a customer?

但第三個是關於第一季和全年的展望。我確實對諒解備忘錄還有另一個問題。既然您提到了這一點，我將首先提出這個問題，這本質上是一份針對用戶側電力的諒解備忘錄嗎？那你認為你能多快看到某件事成為現實？我假設您需要進行一些建置來建立資料中心。你們有什麼最好的情況，什麼時候可以為客戶供電？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yes. So we will go out for RFP this spring, hopefully next month. We're trying to get that in order to see what the demands of the market are we have, I think, a fair amount of flexibility on what we can offer customers. And quite frankly, I don't know what the build times will be. We've had some customers without an RFP, knock on our doors, say that like the bank begins construction in three months, I think that's probably too aggressive. Could we see something as early as next year possibly, but we're not really far enough along in those conversations to give any guidance around, you know what the timing is. I think what we're excited about is just what we've seen other companies do both in Indiana and throughout the Midwest. We've seen some really large developments and those prices don't get published, but they do get whispered. And if that holds true. We're excited about what that could potentially be. Again till we see in our fee results. It's really hard to say we're just excited about the opportunity.

是的。因此，我們將在今年春天進行 RFP，希望是下個月。我們正在努力做到這一點，以便了解市場的需求，我認為我們在為客戶提供的服務方面擁有相當大的靈活性。坦白說，我不知道建造時間是多少。我們有一些沒有 RFP 的客戶，敲我們的門，說就像銀行在三個月內開始建造一樣，我認為這可能太激進了。我們可能最早在明年就能看到一些東西，但我們在這些對話中還沒有走得足夠遠，無法提供任何指導，你知道時機是什麼。我認為我們感到興奮的是我們看到其他公司在印第安納州和整個中西部所做的事情。我們已經看到了一些非常大的開發項目，這些價格沒有公佈，但確實有傳聞。如果這是真的。我們對這可能發生的事情感到興奮。再次直到我們看到我們的費用結果。很難說我們只是對這個機會感到興奮。

And then as far as our first clearing up, you know, we saw one week of really cold extreme weather. So the power plants performed well through that period and that was a profitable time. And the rest of winter so far has been extremely mild. I mean, you know, it's it's we've had some 60, 70 degree days in both February and March in Indiana. So we don't know what that means. We're heading into the shoulder season here of next month that traditionally is low power demand, but winter is traditionally high power demand and that hasn't proved to be the case. So we'll see if this turns out to be a hot summer, we're encouraged by what we've got extremely cheap gas today.

然後就我們第一次清理而言，你知道，我們看到了一周非常寒冷的極端天氣。因此，發電廠在那段時期表現良好，這是一個有利可圖的時期。到目前為止，冬季剩下的時間都非常溫和。我的意思是，你知道，印第安納州 2 月和 3 月都有大約 60 到 70 度的日子。所以我們不知道這意味著什麼。下個月我們將進入淡季，傳統上電力需求較低，但冬季傳統上電力需求較高，但事實證明並非如此。因此，我們將看看這是否會是一個炎熱的夏天，我們對今天極其便宜的天然氣感到鼓舞。

And then when you start to get out to October November, we have we have reasonable gas prices again up in the threes and three 50 range every month thereafter. So the power curve is seeing that and it has remained robust so far, but short term prices have been cheap. And so we'll just manage through that. And that's why you know, we're going to we will we will keep a very close eye on liquidity to make sure that we are successful and we could be some opportunities again here with the MOU that we just signed

然後，當您開始進入 10 月 11 月時，我們的合理汽油價格將再次上漲，此後每個月都會上漲 3 倍和 3 50 倍。因此，功率曲線正在看到這一點，並且迄今為止仍然保持強勁，但短期價格一直很便宜。所以我們會設法解決這個問題。這就是為什麼你知道，我們將密切關注流動性，以確保我們取得成功，並且透過我們剛剛簽署的諒解備忘錄，我們可能會再次獲得一些機會

here on directionally would you expect Q1 to be worse in Q4?

從方向上來說，您認為第一季第四季會更糟嗎？

Well, I'm not prepared to give guidance on Q1 and in a 10 K earnings call. So we'll wait and see what those results are quarters, not over helpful. Thank you.

好吧，我不准備在第一季和 10 K 財報電話會議中提供指導。因此，我們將拭​​目以待，看看這些結果是多少，但不會有太大幫助。謝謝。

I'll I'll do one last one, why why was it necessary for Hoosier to be part of the MOU?

我會做最後一個，為什麼 Hoosier 必須成為諒解備忘錄的一部分？

So we as or are only allowed to sell wholesale power. And when you start attracting customers for data centers and whatnot, that is industrial power. And so that technically has to be sold through a structure that involves a closure and a distributed distributive cooperative win REMC. And so we they're basically negotiated with them for a period of time to say, hey, there's an opportunity here for everybody, let's work together and see if we can have success. And those guys have just been terrific partners every step of the way and to continue continue to do so. And as such, I think we have a real opportunity to not only create value for Hallador but create a value for closure when it went our EMC and their customers.

所以我們或只被允許出售批發電力。當你開始吸引資料中心等客戶時，那就是工業力量。因此，從技術上講，必須透過涉及閉包和分散式合作共贏 REMC 的結構來出售。因此，我們基本上與他們談判了一段時間，說，嘿，這裡每個人都有機會，讓我們共同努力，看看我們是否能取得成功。這些人在每一步中都是出色的合作夥伴，並將繼續這樣做。因此，我認為我們有一個真正的機會，不僅可以為 Hallador 創造價值，而且可以為我們的 EMC 及其客戶創造價值。

Got it.

知道了。

Really appreciate all the color Brent to you or the team are the best of luck.

真心感謝布倫特所有的顏色給你或團隊帶來最好的運氣。

Thank you, Lucas.

謝謝你，盧卡斯。

(Operator Instructions) Okay. Since we have no further questions in the queue for today, so I would like to hand back to Brett Wilson for any concluding remarks -- my apologies. We do have we have just had a question, Mr. And we have a question on the line here from [Roger Zigler]. Roger Zigler, your line is open please go ahead.

（操作員指示）好的。由於今天我們沒有其他問題了，所以我想將結論性意見交還給布雷特·威爾遜——我很抱歉。先生，我們確實有一個問題。我們有一個問題來自[羅傑·齊格勒]。羅傑·齊格勒（Roger Zigler），您的線路已接通，請繼續。

Hi, it's Roger Zigler, your individual investor. Thanks again for your time, guys. The So In recapping the endpoint question and a comment it is there anybody else in the coal industry who is making or has made this transition into integrated vertically integrated independent coal producer and our power producer, as you are.

大家好，我是羅傑‧齊格勒，您的個人投資人。再次感謝您抽出時間，夥計們。因此，在回顧端點問題和評論時，煤炭行業中還有其他人正在或已經轉型為一體化的垂直一體化獨立煤炭生產商和我們的電力生產商，就像您一樣。

It's my first question, I guess I mean you tell someone that's a good question.

這是我的第一個問題，我想我的意思是你告訴某人這是一個好問題。

And when I take it, yes, to my knowledge of how little we're the only company that has acquired and has interest to acquire more coal-fired power plants and a public structure. And so we're happy and excited about what we were able to do at Meira. We think there are other possible opportunities out there to replicate. And so we will. But as far as other people in the industry doing this, I know of some others that are buying plants in a private structure, but I'm unaware of anyone doing it in a public structure, as let's say, it doesn't exist just to say I'm not aware of it.

當我接受它時，是的，據我所知，我們是唯一一家已經收購並有興趣收購更多燃煤發電廠和公共建築的公司。因此，我們對在梅拉所做的事情感到高興和興奮。我們認為還有其他可能的複製機會。我們也會這麼做。但就業內其他人這樣做而言，我知道其他一些人正在私人結構中購買工廠，但我不知道有人在公共結構中這樣做，可以說，它並不只是存在說我不知道。

Okay. And I think you've pretty much answered this but just for how we should think about the safety, the 2024 outlook, there's some tremendous opportunities. It sounds like you're really building for like on a three, three, four year build out. But the is it as simple as if you get in Indiana and maybe the surrounding power areas, get it finally get a hot summer following the second warm winter in a row. Is that going to just be like it's kind of Springboard nat gas coal in your power, your power markets, the considerably correct. I mean, is it that simple.

好的。我認為您已經回答了這個問題，但就我們應該如何考慮安全性和 2024 年前景而言，存在著一些巨大的機會。聽起來你真的是在為三年、三年、四年的建設而努力。但這就像您進入印第安納州以及周圍的電力地區一樣簡單，在連續第二個溫暖的冬天之後，終於迎來了炎熱的夏天。這就像你的電力、電力市場中的跳板天然氣煤一樣，相當正確。我的意思是，有這麼簡單嗎？

Yes, the power market move so quick. I mean, we can see spot prices one day be $20 a megawatt hour and three days later, they're 250 made. But those are weather driven events. We're trying to get to a contracted sales book and we're having a lot of success to do that and doing that and doing so and there we have a huge amount of business out for bid as we speak, but we'll see how successful we are in securing those contracts. But I think we have multiple customers multiple avenues, particularly with MOU.

是的，電力市場變化如此之快。我的意思是，我們可以看到有一天現貨價格為每兆瓦時 20 美元，三天后，它們的產量為 250 美元。但這些都是天氣驅動的事件。我們正在努力達成合約銷售簿，我們在這方面取得了很大的成功，在我們說話的時候，我們有大量的業務正在進行投標，但我們會看到我們在獲得這些合約方面有多成功。但我認為我們有多個客戶多種管道，特別是透過諒解備忘錄。

Now to add to that and what excites us is we see Hallador in a traditional margins that it made in coal. And then we see what if you look at our sales table in the 10 K when it gets published in the next day or so, you look at the pricing for power, particularly when you get out in the 26, 27, 28 range. Our margins are dramatically higher, and we think we can continue to have success contracting for power and capacity at higher margins. We haven't gotten our sales book filled out as fast as I would have liked. But I think our team's done a terrific job and the way we're going about it and you have to you have to you have to find willing dance partners and there's they're showing up. It just takes more time because it's a very bespoke process in filling that out. And so, you know, our earnings are going to be a little episodic depending on weather here for the next handful of quarters of we were we were the market changed so dramatically from our earnings call in November, what we saw the power curve there for December, January, February versus what it actually ended up being it was completely a different number just based on the fact that we had with some people are calling the warmest winter in history, right? We don't know what that means for the spring and the summer if it's hot, one thing about it, the win windmills, myself has a very high percentage of windmills. It had very little solar panels that have been built very little by half a percentage there generation, but the wind tends not to blow on hot days. So we're actually seeing, you know, theoretically, we think we'll see a peak in summertime versus where we used to see it in the wintertime. So, you know, that's that's what we're looking at. We're in contract discussions with customers to see, you know how soon we can start pulling some of these higher prices forward. And so that's what our team will be working on this summer, and we'll just have to see how it plays out. Hopefully, we see some some warm weather, that would certainly be helpful. But long term, we're just extremely excited because we think the earnings potential of the company has dramatically improved, and we feel that our future sales book is starting to demonstrate that to the public. So what I don't know from a shareholder perspective, will investors be focused on this quarter and next? Or will they be focused on what we're building all of that later this year and early into next year and beyond. So stay tuned.

現在更讓我們興奮的是，我們看到 Hallador 處於煤炭製造的傳統邊緣。然後我們會看到，如果您在第二天左右發佈時查看我們的 10 K 銷售表，您會查看電力定價，特別是當您在 26、27、28 範圍內時。我們的利潤率大幅提高，我們認為我們可以繼續以更高的利潤率成功承包電力和容量。我們的銷售手冊填寫得沒有我希望的那麼快。但我認為我們的團隊做得非常出色，我們的工作方式也非常出色，你必須找到願意的舞伴，他們就出現了。只是需要更多時間，因為填寫過程是一個非常客製化的過程。因此，你知道，我們的收益將有點不穩定，具體取決於接下來幾個季度的天氣，如果市場自 11 月的收益電話會議以來發生瞭如此巨大的變化，我們看到那裡的功率曲線是什麼十二月、一月、二月與實際結果完全不同的數字，只是基於我們和一些人稱之為歷史上最溫暖的冬天這一事實，對嗎？我們不知道這對春天和夏天意味著什麼，如果天氣很熱，有一件事，勝利風車，我自己的風車比例非常高。它的太陽能板很少，發電量只佔發電量的一半，但在炎熱的日子裡往往不會刮風。所以我們實際上看到，從理論上講，我們認為我們會在夏季看到峰值，而不是過去在冬季看到的峰值。所以，你知道，這就是我們正在關注的。我們正在與客戶進行合約討論，以了解我們多久可以開始提高其中一些更高的價格。這就是我們的團隊今年夏天將要做的事情，我們只需要看看結果如何。希望我們能看到一些溫暖的天氣，這肯定會有幫助。但從長遠來看，我們非常興奮，因為我們認為公司的獲利潛力已經顯著提高，而且我們認為我們未來的銷售記錄正開始向公眾證明這一點。那麼，從股東的角度來看，我不知道投資人會關注本季和下季嗎？或者他們會專注於我們在今年稍後、明年初及以後構建的所有內容。所以請繼續關注。

Yes, to say you're basically spring-loaded is seeming to be an understatement with the things you have in place here. So good luck on that and appreciate it.

是的，說你基本上是彈簧加載的，對於你這裡所擁有的東西來說似乎是輕描淡寫的。祝你好運並感激不盡。

And thank you for your question.

謝謝你的提問。

Thank you. We have no further questions in the queue. So I'd now like to hand back to rentals in person closing remarks.

謝謝。我們隊列中沒有其他問題了。因此，我現在想親自向租金公司發表結束語。

I want to thank everyone for taking the time today to tune into our call and your interest in Hallador Energy. We greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

我要感謝大家今天抽出時間收聽我們的電話會議以及您對哈拉多能源的興趣。我們非常感激。謝謝。

This concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家的加入。現在您可以斷開線路。