Hci Group Inc (HCI) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, and welcome to HCI Group's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. My name is Mike, and I will be your conference operator. (Operator Instructions) Before we begin today's call, I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded and will be available for replay through December 7, 2023, starting later today. The call is also being broadcast live via webcast and available via webcast replay until November 7, 2024, on the Investor Information section of HCI Group's website at www. hcigroup.com. I would now like to turn the call over to Matt Glover, Gateway Investor Relations. Matt, please proceed.

下午好，歡迎參加 HCI 集團 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。我叫麥克，我將擔任您的會議操作員。 （操作員說明）在我們開始今天的電話會議之前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議正在錄音，並且從今天晚些時候開始，可在 2023 年 12 月 7 日之前重播。此次電話會議也將透過網路直播進行現場直播，並在 2024 年 11 月 7 日之前透過 HCI 集團網站 www.hci.com 的投資者資訊部分進行網路直播重播。 hcigroup.com。我現在想把電話轉給 Gateway 投資者關係部門的 Matt Glover。馬特，請繼續。

Thank you, Mike, and good afternoon. Welcome to HCI Group's Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. On today's call is Karin Coleman, HCI's Chief Operating Officer; Mark Harmsworth, HCI's Chief Financial Officer; and Paresh Patel, HCI's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer.

謝謝你，麥克，下午好。歡迎參加 HCI 集團 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。 HCI 營運長 Karin Coleman 出席了今天的電話會議； HCI 財務長 Mark Harmsworth；以及 HCI 董事長兼執行長 Paresh Patel。

Following Karin's operational update, Mark will review our financial performance for the third quarter of 2023, and then Paresh will provide a strategic update. To access today's webcast, please visit the Investor Information section of our corporate website at www.hcigroup.com.

在 Karin 更新營運情況後，Mark 將審查我們 2023 年第三季的財務業績，然後 Paresh 將提供策略更新。要觀看今天的網路廣播，請訪問我們公司網站 www.hcigroup.com 的投資者資訊部分。

Before we begin, I'd like to take the opportunity to remind our listeners that today's presentation and responses to questions may contain forward-looking statements made pursuant to the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Words such as anticipate, estimate, expect, intend, plan and project and other similar words and expressions are intended to signify forward-looking statements.

在我們開始之前，我想藉此機會提醒我們的聽眾，今天的演示和對問題的回答可能包含根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》做出的前瞻性陳述。諸如預期、估計、期望、打算、計劃和項目以及其他類似的詞語和表達旨在表示前瞻性陳述。

Forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future results and conditions, but rather are subject to various risks and uncertainties. Some of these risks and uncertainties are identified in the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Should any risks or uncertainties develop into actual events, these developments could have material adverse effects on the company's business, financial conditions and results of operations. HCI Group disclaims all obligations to update any forward-looking statements.

前瞻性陳述並不是對未來結果和條件的保證，而是受到各種風險和不確定性的影響。該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中指出了其中一些風險和不確定性。如果任何風險或不確定性發展為實際事件，這些發展可能對公司的業務、財務狀況和經營業績產生重大不利影響。 HCI 集團不承擔更新任何前瞻性聲明的義務。

Now with that, I'd like to turn the call over to Karin Coleman, Chief Operating Officer. Karin?

現在，我想將電話轉給營運長 Karin Coleman。卡琳？

Thank you, Matt, and welcome, everyone. HCI Group reported another strong quarter with pretax income of $20.1 million and diluted earnings per share of $1.34. This was a great result as the third quarter included $6.5 million of catastrophe losses from Hurricane Idalia which made landfall in Florida as a Cat 3 hurricane.

謝謝你，馬特，歡迎大家。 HCI Group 報告了另一個強勁的季度，稅前收入為 2010 萬美元，稀釋後每股收益為 1.34 美元。這是一個了不起的結果，因為第三季颶風「伊達利亞」以 3 級颶風登陸佛羅裡達州，造成了 650 萬美元的災難損失。

This marks the third straight quarter of pretax income over $20 million and brings year-to-date pretax income to over $63 million. Gross premiums earned increased almost 4% in the third quarter. Our consolidated gross loss ratio was 35.4% in the quarter. But adjusting for the hurricane Idalia losses that I mentioned, our gross loss ratio saw a sequential improvement to approximately 32%. We remain on a path of continued improvement in our underlying gross loss ratio, which Mark will elaborate on in a few minutes.

這標誌著稅前收入連續第三個季度超過 2,000 萬美元，並使年初至今的稅前收入超過 6,300 萬美元。第三季毛保費成長了近 4%。本季我們的綜合毛損失率為 35.4%。但調整我提到的颶風伊達利亞損失後，我們的總損失率較上季改善至約 32%。我們仍然走在基本總損失率持續改善的道路上，馬克將在幾分鐘內詳細闡述這一點。

Legislative reforms introduced last year in Florida have been effective. They are continuing to bring stability to the Florida homeowners market and provide policyholders with greater consumer choice.

佛羅裡達州去年推出的立法改革取得了成效。他們將繼續為佛羅裡達州房主市場帶來穩定，並為保單持有人提供更多的消費者選擇。

Similar to prior quarters, each of our business segments had a positive contribution to our quarterly results. At our insurance division, Homeowners Choice generated another quarter of consistent earnings and TypTap Insurance Group reported its third straight quarter of GAAP profitability.

與前幾季類似，我們的每個業務部門都對我們的季度業績做出了積極貢獻。在我們的保險部門，Homeowners Choice 又實現了一個季度的穩定盈利，TypTap Insurance Group 報告了連續第三個季度的 GAAP 盈利能力。

In investments, net investment income totaled $9.4 million, almost entirely from our cash and fixed income holdings. Our investment portfolio generated another quarter of steady income and has benefited from the current rate environment. HCI is pursuing top line growth in the fourth quarter, and the company is currently adding customers from Citizens. In total, HCI Group is approved to assume up to 125,000 policies which includes the recent approval by the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation for a second Citizens assumption by TypTap. We don't -- won't know for a few weeks the exact number of policies that elect to move to HCI but our expectation is that HCI could add between $150 million to $250 million of in-force premium.

在投資方面，投資淨收入總計 940 萬美元，幾乎全部來自我們持有的現金和固定收益。我們的投資組合又創造了一個季度的穩定收入，並受益於當前的利率環境。 HCI 致力於在第四季度實現營收成長，該公司目前正在增加來自 Citizens 的客戶。 HCI Group 總共獲準承保多達 125,000 份保單，其中包括佛羅裡達州保險監管辦公室最近批准的 TypTap 的第二個公民保單承保。我們幾週內不會知道選擇轉向 HCI 的保單的確切數量，但我們預計 HCI 可能會增加 1.5 億至 2.5 億美元的有效保費。

Finally, HCI Group continued to deliver on its commitment to shareholders, paying a dividend of $0.40 per share, our 52nd consecutive quarterly dividend. To summarize, HCI Group delivered another quarter of solid profitability, and we think there is an opportunity to build on our momentum.

最後，HCI 集團繼續履行對股東的承諾，派發每股 0.40 美元的股息，這是我們連續第 52 個季度派息。總而言之，HCI 集團又一個季度實現了穩健的盈利，我們認為有機會鞏固我們的勢頭。

Now I'll turn it over to Mark to provide more details on our financial results.

現在我將把它交給馬克，以提供有關我們財務業績的更多詳細資訊。

Thanks, Karin. So as Karin mentioned, this is the third consecutive quarter where pretax earnings have been more than $20 million. In the first quarter, pretax income was over $20 million and included a onetime gain from the sale of real estate. In the second quarter, pretax income was over $20 million with no onetime gains. This quarter, pretax income was again over $20 million despite having a Cat 3 hurricane hit the state of Florida. These improving earnings are the result of trends we've been discussing for a while now, higher average premium per policy, increasing investment income, flat operating costs and improving claim trends.

謝謝，卡琳。正如 Karin 所提到的，這是連續第三個季度稅前利潤超過 2000 萬美元。第一季度，稅前收入超過 2,000 萬美元，其中包括出售房地產的一次性收益。第二季稅前收入超過 2000 萬美元，沒有一次性收益。儘管佛羅裡達州遭遇了 3 級颶風，但本季稅前收入再次超過 2000 萬美元。這些收益的改善是我們已經討論了一段時間的趨勢的結果，每份保單的平均保費更高，投資收入增加，營運成本持平以及索賠趨勢改善。

In the third quarter, gross premiums earned were up despite policies in force being down, driven by rate adjustments made earlier in the year. Higher average premium per policy, both in Florida and outside of Florida has helped reduce the loss ratio and increase earnings. Increasing investment income is the second trend helping to drive improved earnings. If you look at the income statement this quarter, it looks like investment income is down, but that's because we had a real estate sale in the third quarter last year. If you adjust for that, ongoing investment income is almost double what it was a year ago, and it continues to go higher.

儘管受今年稍早費率調整的影響，有效保單有所減少，但第三季的毛保費仍有所成長。在佛羅裡達州和佛羅裡達州以外地區，每份保單的平均保費較高，有助於降低損失率並增加收益。增加投資收入是有助於推動獲利改善的第二個趨勢。如果你看一下本季的損益表，看起來投資收益下降了，但那是因為我們去年第三季有房地產銷售。如果對此進行調整，持續的投資收益幾乎是一年前的兩倍，並且還在繼續走高。

Third positive trend is that expenses have been flat. We're driving significant operating leverage by generating higher premium revenue without increasing operating expenses. The last trend is the continued improvement in the loss ratio. I should clarify one thing quickly. If you look at the loss expense for the third quarter last year, it includes the loss expense related to Hurricane Ian of about $64.6 million. And the loss expense for the third quarter this year, it includes as Karin mentioned, losses of $6.5 million for Hurricane Idalia.

第三個正向趨勢是支出持平。我們透過在不增加營運費用的情況下產生更高的保費收入來推動顯著的營運槓桿。最後一個趨勢是損失率持續改善。我應該盡快澄清一件事。如果你看去年第三季的損失費用，它包括與伊恩颶風相關的約 6,460 萬美元的損失費用。今年第三季的損失費用，正如卡琳所提到的，其中包括颶風伊達利亞造成的 650 萬美元損失。

To get a clear picture of loss trends, we need to adjust for both. If we do that, the consolidated loss ratio in the third quarter last year was 41.4% and in the third quarter this year, the gross loss ratio is down at 32%. This improvement in the loss ratio was being driven partially by higher average premium per policy, but more importantly, a lower claim frequency and reduced litigation frequency, we believe as a result of the insurance reform legislation in Florida.

為了清楚了解損失趨勢，我們需要對兩者進行調整。如果這樣計算，去年第三季的綜合虧損率為41.4%，今年第三季的毛虧損率為32%。損失率的改善部分是由於每份保單的平均保費較高，但更重要的是，索賠頻率較低和訴訟頻率減少，我們認為這是佛羅裡達州保險改革立法的結果。

I mentioned this before, but we are not getting to these lower loss ratios by reducing reserves. In fact, net reserves at the end of Q3 are the same as they were at the start of the year.

我之前提到過這一點，但我們並不是透過減少準備金來降低損失率。事實上，第三季末的淨準備金與年初相同。

I should mention a few things on the balance sheet. Shareholder equity has grown by about 25% so far this year and book value per share is up from $18.91 at the start of the year to $23.27 at the end of the third quarter. Cash and financial investments at the holding company level are just over $167 million up from $140 million at the start of the year. We're also happy to announce that we signed a new credit facility with Fifth Third Bank with significant improvements. The amount of the credit available increases from $50 million to $75 million and the term of the facility has been extended from 2 years to 5.

我應該提一下資產負債表上的一些事情。今年迄今為止，股東權益成長了約 25%，每股帳面價值從年初的 18.91 美元增至第三季末的 23.27 美元。控股公司層級的現金和金融投資略高於 1.67 億美元，高於年初的 1.4 億美元。我們也很高興地宣布，我們與 Fifth Third Bank 簽署了一項新的信貸安排，並取得了重大改進。可用信貸金額從 5,000 萬美元增加到 7,500 萬美元，貸款期限從 2 年延長至 5 年。

Combined with cash and financial investments at the holding company level, this increases total available liquidity at the holding company to just under $0.25 billion, which is available to support new growth initiatives. Speaking of new opportunities, as Karin mentioned, we're in the process of assuming a number of policies from Citizens, which we expect will increase premiums and more importantly, substantially increase earnings starting in the fourth quarter.

加上控股公司層級的現金和金融投資，這將控股公司的可用流動性總額增加到略低於 2.5 億美元，可用於支持新的成長計畫。談到新的機會，正如卡琳所提到的，我們正在接受公民的一些保單，我們預計這些保單將增加保費，更重要的是，從第四季度開始大幅增加收入。

To summarize, this is another great quarter for the company, and we are positioned for even better results. Revenue is going up, investment income is going up. The loss ratio is coming down. Policy acquisition and operating expenses are flat and earnings are growing.

總而言之，這對公司來說是另一個偉大的季度，我們已經準備好取得更好的業績。收入在增加，投資收益也在增加。損失率正在下降。保單取得和營運費用持平，收益不斷成長。

With that, I'll hand it over to Paresh.

這樣，我就把它交給帕雷什了。

Thanks, Mark. Karin and Mark walk everyone through our solid financial position at the end of the third quarter. With approximately $750 million of in-force premium and both of our insurance divisions being GAAP profitable and cash flow positive. But looking forward to Q4, we're building on this space by assuming policies from Citizens. We expect to close out 2023 within a stone's throw of $1 billion of in-force premium and we expect to cross that mark in early 2024. And while reaching this milestone will be an accomplishment, we are already planning for what comes next.

謝謝，馬克。卡琳和馬克向大家介紹了第三季末我們穩健的財務狀況。有效保費約為 7.5 億美元，我們的兩個保險部門均以 GAAP 原則實現盈利且現金流為正。但展望第四季度，我們將透過假設公民的政策來建立這一空間。我們預計到 2023 年，有效保費將達到 10 億美元，並預計在 2024 年初跨越這一大關。雖然達到這一里程碑將是一項成就，但我們已經在為下一步做好計劃。

There are several initiatives that we are looking at and each is in different stages of development. But one item of note is that we are in the process of forming a new reciprocal carrier in Florida. The new carrier is going to be called Condo Owners Reciprocal Exchange and will mark our entry into commercial residential insurance space. Our application is currently pending regulatory approval, and we hope to commence operations in early 2024.

我們正在考慮多項舉措，每一項都處於不同的發展階段。但值得注意的是，我們正在佛羅裡達州組建一家新的互惠航空公司。新的保險公司將被稱為公寓業主互惠交易所，這將標誌著我們進入商業住宅保險領域。我們的申請目前正在等待監管部門批准，我們希望在 2024 年初開始營運。

Beyond that, we have additional plans, and we will stay -- we'll disclose them as we go forward, please stay tuned.

除此之外，我們還有其他計劃，我們將留下來——我們將在前進的過程中披露它們，請繼續關注。

To summarize where we are, we had a solid quarter in Q3. In Q4, we will have additional growth in Florida by adding additional policies from Citizens, and we are looking forward to a very bright 2024. With that, we'll open the line for questions.

總結一下我們目前的情況，我們在第三季表現穩定。在第四季度，我們將透過增加公民的額外政策來實現佛羅裡達州的進一步成長，我們期待著一個非常光明的 2024 年。這樣，我們將開放提問熱線。

(Operator Instructions) And our first question will come from Matt Carletti with JMP.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題將來自 JMP 的 Matt Carletti。

The underlying loss trends, Mark, you talked a bit about it. I was hoping you could dive in a little further. I've always known you guys to be pretty conservative in kind of what you print in the quarter. Can you give us a look behind the scenes and maybe what are you seeing in paids? Or is there kind of some of the indications maybe even stronger than what we're seeing and you're just given a little time to make sure that it's fully baked?

馬克，你談到了潛在的損失趨勢。我希望你能更深入一點。我一直都知道你們對於本季印刷的內容相當保守。您能為我們介紹一下幕後花絮嗎？也許您在付費業務中看到了什麼？或者是否有一些跡象可能比我們所看到的更強烈，而你只是給了一點時間來確保它完全烘烤？

Yes. Good question. So yes, I mean, generally speaking, the claims trends are really good. We're seeing some pretty significant decreases in claim frequency. Weather-adjusted claims frequency is down about 20% quarter-over-quarter. Litigation, the number of lawsuits is 30% to 40%, less than you would expect to have for quarters like Q3, Q4. So things are performing well. The Florida loss ratio has improved significantly as we talked about. And -- yes, we're still being, I would use the word prudent in how we reserve. So our loss expense is higher than what our paids or incurreds are.

是的。好問題。所以，是的，我的意思是，總的來說，索賠趨勢確實很好。我們發現索賠頻率顯著下降。經天氣調整後的理賠頻率較上季下降約 20%。訴訟，訴訟數量為 30% 至 40%，低於您對第三季、第四季等季度的預期。所以事情進展順利。正如我們所說，佛羅裡達州的損失率已顯著改善。而且 - 是的，我們仍然是，我會在我們如何保留時使用謹慎這個詞。因此，我們的損失費用高於我們支付或發生的費用。

And for the full year, we've kept reserves flat. And I think that says something. The policy count is down. The number of open claims is down but net reserves are flat. So statistics like average reserves for open claim and those kinds of things are up significantly. So we're taking a fairly prudent approach to reserving. It's -- when you look at the face financials, it looks very good. And I would say that the trends are maybe even a little bit better than how it shows. Does that help?

全年，我們的儲備金保持不變。我認為這說明了一些事情。保單數量減少。未決索賠數量下降，但淨儲備持平。因此，未結索賠的平均準備金等統計數據顯著上升。因此，我們採取相當謹慎的預訂方法。當你看表面財務數據時，它看起來非常好。我想說的是，趨勢可能比它所顯示的還要好一點。這樣有幫助嗎？

Absolutely. Yes. Exactly what I was looking for. And then maybe if I can on the takeouts. Karin, I appreciate your comments on -- I think you said expecting kind of $150 million to $250 million in-force premium. How should we think about it in terms of average policy size for kind of what's coming out of -- where you're looking to take out of Citizens. I know you won't know exactly, but kind of ballpark, what's the average premium per policy?

絕對地。是的。正是我正在尋找的東西。然後也許我可以叫外送。卡琳，我很欣賞您的評論——我想您說過預計會有 1.5 億至 2.5 億美元的有效保費。我們應該如何從平均保單規模的角度來考慮它，以了解您希望從公民中獲得的內容。我知道你不會確切知道，但大概，每份保單的平均保費是多少？

So Matt, it's Mark. I would assume about $3,700 per policy. That's a good estimate at this point. We won't know for a little bit yet. But that's a pretty reasonable estimate of what we would expect on a consolidated basis.

馬特，是馬克。我假設每份保單的保費約為 3,700 美元。目前這是一個很好的估計。我們還暫時不知道。但這是對我們綜合預期的相當合理的估計。

Okay. Great. And then maybe just a high-level question. Can you talk a little bit about the competitive environment in Florida. I mean, obviously, the loss picture is getting better. You talked through that. But we've all seen the bankruptcies and the company shrinking and things like that. What kind of -- can you give us an update on the competitive front. What you're seeing in terms of companies that have an appetite to go out and write any substantial amount of business versus those that might still be playing a little bit defense?

好的。偉大的。然後也許只是一個高級問題。您能談談佛羅裡達州的競爭環境嗎？我的意思是，顯然，損失情況正在改善。你已經談過了。但我們都看過破產和公司萎縮之類的事情。能為我們介紹一下競爭方面的最新情況嗎？您認為那些有興趣走出去並完成大量業務的公司與那些可能仍處於防禦狀態的公司相比？

Matt, Paresh here. The thing I would say about that, a lot of -- there's been a couple of new start-ups, so that's been going on. A lot -- a number of the existing players are obviously participating in Citizens depopulations. So that's kind of like an optimistic thing. We also note a couple of other carriers have mentioned that they're shrinking their books and so on. So that's also in the opposite direction a little bit. And Citizens is sitting there, absorbing any movement back and forth. So all of those things are playing out. So I'd say it's a mixed bag at this moment in time in terms of people growing versus shrinking.

馬特，帕雷什在這裡。對此我想說的是，有很多新的新創公司出現了，所以這種情況一直在發生。很多——許多現有的玩家顯然正在參與公民人口減少。所以這有點像是樂觀的事。我們也注意到其他幾家業者也提到他們正在縮減預訂量等。所以這也是有點相反的方向。公民坐在那裡，吸收著來回的任何動靜。所以所有這些事情都正在發生。所以我想說，就人口成長與萎縮而言，目前情況是個好壞參半的情況。

From our own perspective, I think we sort of see that the Florida insurance space is getting to a better place. And obviously, it gets to a better place, there will be -- policy holders will have more choices and more alternatives. And it's starting with us. I mean we're talking about growing by almost 1/3 in the next few months. So just by our actions, yes.

從我們自己的角度來看，我認為我們看到佛羅裡達州的保險領域正在變得更好。顯然，它會變得更好，保單持有人將有更多的選擇和更多的選擇。這一切從我們開始。我的意思是，我們正在談論未來幾個月將增長近 1/3。所以只要透過我們的行動，是的。

Absolutely. Congrats on a nice quarter.

絕對地。恭喜您度過了一個美好的季度。

(Operator Instructions) Next, we have Mark Hughes with Truist.

（操作員指示）接下來請來的是 Mark Hughes 和 Truist。

What is your view at this point regarding voluntary policy growth, the increase at Homeowners Choice. Is that -- what was the driver there this quarter? And then obviously, the takeouts will have a big impact, but would you be growing on a voluntary basis as well?

您目前對自願保單成長、房主選擇增加有何看法？那是——本季的驅動因素是什麼？顯然，外賣會產生很大的影響，但你也會在自願的基礎上成長嗎？

Mark, great question. But a couple of things. Because we have both Homeowners Choice and TypTap in the Florida market, part of our agreement and how regulators like -- have us operate. Homeowners Choice doesn't write voluntary single policies. It only does block so business like takeouts, et cetera. So there isn't voluntary writing on the Homeowners Choice side. On the TypTap side, there is, and it just continues along at its own steady pace and we're supplementing it with a couple of takeouts in this particular moment in time, yes.

馬克，好問題。但有幾件事。因為我們在佛羅裡達市場擁有 Homeowners Choice 和 TypTap，這是我們協議的一部分，也是監管機構希望我們運作的方式。 Homeowners Choice 不制定自願的單一保單。它只會阻止諸如外賣等業務。因此，房主選擇方面沒有自願寫作。在 TypTap 方面，是有的，而且它只是以自己穩定的速度繼續前進，我們在這個特定的時刻通過一些外賣來補充它，是的。

Yes, understood. The reciprocal exchange you're talking about, what's the thinking there, what's the economic model? How quickly will that get ramped up?

是的，明白了。你說的互惠互利，裡面的想法是什麼，經濟模式是什麼？其成長速度有多快？

Again, so we wanted to kind of get in front of this because what's happened is we filed with the OIR for approval, and the filing itself makes it somewhat public that we are in the process of doing this. So we want to make sure transparency that all shareholders are aware that this is going on.

再說一次，所以我們想提前解決這個問題，因為我們向 OIR 提交了申請以獲得批准，而該申請本身就在某種程度上公開了我們正在這樣做。因此，我們希望確保透明度，讓所有股東都知道這件事正在發生。

The thesis for the business really is that while there's a hard market or semi-hard market going on for the residential -- personal lines residential business. It's a very, very tough market right now, very hard market for commercial residential. This is like the whole condo buildings and that kind of stuff. So we were presented with an opportunity to enter that line of business and grow at a significant rate.

該業務的主題實際上是，雖然住宅市場正在經歷硬市場或半硬市場，但個人線路住宅業務仍然存在。現在對於商業住宅來說，這是一個非常非常艱難的市場。這就像整個公寓大樓之類的東西。因此，我們有機會進入該業務領域並以顯著的速度成長。

And we've spent a few months doing the economics and the math and everything else. And we think it's a healthy business for us to enter, where we can add value both to our shareholders, but more importantly, to the policyholders and the condo owners that will be the policyholders of this company. So it seemed like there was an opportunity to do a win-win solution where everybody is looking for some alternative. And we are -- as we always do, pioneering our way into a new area.

我們花了幾個月的時間研究經濟學、數學和其他一切。我們認為這對我們來說是一項健康的業務，我們可以為我們的股東增加價值，但更重要的是，為保單持有人和將成為該公司保單持有人的公寓業主增加價值。因此，似乎有機會實現雙贏的解決方案，每個人都在尋找替代方案。我們一如既往地開拓新領域。

And then the -- Mark, I think you've talked notionally about a 30% gross loss target. Here you are at 32%. It's -- I wouldn't say it's early days, but you've gotten pretty close pretty quickly. Is that still the right target? Or could you perhaps go lower than that?

然後，馬克，我想您已經理論上談到了 30% 的總損失目標。現在你的進度是 32%。我不會說現在還為時過早，但你很快就已經非常接近了。這仍然是正確的目標嗎？或者你可以比這個更低嗎？

Yes. I mean I think we've talked about the 30% a few times. We said that it would take a little bit of time to get there. The loss ratio has dropped every quarter now for a number of quarters. I think 30% is still the right target. Could it be a little bit less than that in some quarters, I think it probably could. But I think 30% is, I think, still probably a comfortable target on a consolidated basis that -- at least for now.

是的。我的意思是，我想我們已經多次討論過 30% 的問題了。我們說需要一點時間才能到達那裡。損失率連續幾個季度每季都在下降。我認為30%仍然是正確的目標。會不會比某些方面少一點，我想可能會。但我認為，在綜合基礎上，30% 仍然可能是一個令人滿意的目標——至少目前是如此。

(Operator Instructions) We now hear from Casey Alexander with Compass Point.

（操作員指示）我們現在收到來自 Compass Point 的 Casey Alexander 的來信。

Yes. Just a little clarification. The Condo Owner Reciprocal Exchange, is that being ceded by -- is that a part of the 125,000 policies that are being taken down from Citizens that are specific to that market? Or are you entering that market with a different distribution scheme distribution channel?

是的。只是一點點澄清。公寓業主互惠交換，是由特定於該市場的公民取消的 125,000 份保單中的一部分嗎？或者您正在透過不同的分銷計劃分銷管道進入該市場？

Casey, let me answer the question this way, right? All that's going on with the Condo Owners Reciprocal Exchange is that we have filed an application with the OIR with the regulators. It is not included in any of the 125,000 policies that we've been approved because we can't be approved for doing any of those things until the application is approved. Yes...

凱西，讓我這樣回答這個問題吧？公寓業主互惠交換所發生的一切是我們已向監管機構 OIR 提交了申請。它不包含在我們已批准的 125,000 份保單中，因為在申請獲得批准之前，我們無法獲準做任何這些事情。是的...

So then I'm curious what is the sort of distribution strategy to actually write that business. Is it independent brokers? Or how do you expect to get in that market once you are approved?

所以我很好奇實際編寫該業務的分銷策略是什麼。是獨立經紀人嗎？或者一旦獲得批准，您預計如何進入該市場？

Actually, we have all the usual avenues open to us. There could be a depopulation from Citizens for that business. And that business also generally works slightly differently to our personal lines residential, which sort of tends to auto renew every year. Here, because it's condo association and condo boards are involved, it's a slightly more complicated sales cycle that involves brokers, and we will use brokers. And it just reapplied for and reunderwritten every year. It just is a larger premium per policy kind of business. And it just has a slightly different rhythm to it, and that's why we're doing it the way we are.

事實上，我們可以使用所有常見的途徑。該業務的公民數量可能會減少。業務的運作方式通常也與我們的個人住宅路線略有不同，後者往往每年都會自動更新。在這裡，因為涉及公寓協會和公寓委員會，所以這是一個稍微複雜的銷售週期，涉及經紀人，我們將使用經紀人。而且每年都會重新申請重新核保。只是每種保單業務的保費較高。只是節奏略有不同，這就是我們這樣做的原因。

Okay. And then my last question is sort of more high-level question about the depopulation. HCI was built on depopulations in the late early 2000s and then didn't do very many for quite an extended period of time and now is moving back into the market. What's different about this depopulation compared to the depopulations that you did in the past when you were originally building the company. And sort of why the acceleration back into that market at this time, just -- I just think high level, that's a helpful thing to hear.

好的。我的最後一個問題是關於人口減少的更高層次的問題。 HCI 是在 2000 年代末期建立的，當時人口減少，然後在相當長的一段時間內沒有做太多事情，現在正在重新進入市場。與您過去最初建立公司時所做的人員減少相比，這次人員減少有何不同。這就是為什麼此時加速重返該市場的原因，我只是認為高層，這是一件很有幫助的事情。

Absolutely. So you're right. We did depopulations back before they were popular back in 2007, '08, '09, '10 kind of time frame, then we did some again in '11, '12, '13, '14, we kind of -- our last big depopulation in 2014. We did do some other minor top-up ones in '17, '18 and '19. I think '19 was the last time we did a depopulation before this year.

絕對地。所以你是對的。我們在2007 年、'08、'09、'10 等時間範圍內流行之前就進行了人口減少，然後我們在'11、'12、'13、'14 再次做了一些，我們有點- 我們的最後一次2014 年人口大幅減少。我們在 17 年、18 年和 19 年確實做了一些其他小的補充。我認為 19 年是今年之前我們最後一次進行人口減少。

But the item in all of that stuff is that we were doing this as Citizens had peaked out to 1.2 million policies, I think, in 2012. And then we stopped when the policy count dropped around 400,000. And because the moment had passed, what has occurred as everyone should be aware of is in the last 2 years or so, Citizens ballooned to around what is the 1.7 million policies -- 1.4 million policies at this point. And again, there's opportunity for us to depopulate from that pool.

但所有這些事情的要點是，我們這樣做是在 2012 年，公民保單數量達到了 120 萬份的頂峰。然後，當保單數量下降到 40 萬份左右時，我們就停止了。由於這一時刻已經過去，每個人都應該意識到在過去兩年左右發生的事情，公民數量激增至大約 170 萬份保單——目前為 140 萬份保單。再說一次，我們有機會減少該池中的人口。

Along the way is what I would say it's just like what it used to be before, it is in the sense that some of the rules have changed from Citizens, but more importantly, our technology and our capabilities have advanced tremendously in the last decade. So for us to do a depopulation at this point, it's a lot more easier and automated and easier for us to risk selection than it was a decade ago. So from all of those things, it has improved. So to put it this way, Homeowners Choice is doing what it was built to do only new or better and much more improved.

我想說，一路走來，它就像以前一樣，從某種意義上說，公民的一些規則已經改變，但更重要的是，我們的技術和能力在過去十年中取得了巨大進步。因此，對我們來說，此時進行人口減少，比十年前更容易、更自動化，也更容易冒選擇的風險。所以從所有這些方面來看，它已經有所改善。因此，這麼說吧，Homeowners Choice 所做的事情就是為了做新的或更好的、更多改進的事情。

We have Mark Hughes with Truist.

我們有馬克·休斯和 Truist。

Yes. The expense ratio looked pretty good this quarter. Any one-timers? Or is this something that's sustainable?

是的。本季的費用比率看起來相當不錯。有一次性的嗎？或者這是可持續的嗎？

It was -- if you compare it quarter-over-quarter, there was one thing that creates just a little bit of a bump. We -- stock-based compensation in the third quarter last year was about $1 million or $2 million higher than the third quarter of this year. So that's one of the reasons that it's down. But if you go back and look for the last quite a while, you put labor and OpEx together, it's been pretty flat for a number of quarters. And so yes, I would say that it's sustainable.

如果你按季度進行比較，你會發現有一件事只造成了一點點的成長。去年第三季的股票薪資比今年第三季高出約 100 萬美元或 200 萬美元。所以這就是它下跌的原因之一。但如果你回頭看看過去相當長一段時間，你把勞動力和營運支出放在一起，你會發現幾個季度以來都相當平穩。所以，是的，我想說這是可持續的。

The percentage -- the ratio is going down a little bit because gross premiums are going up a bit, but the dollar value of labored OpEx combined has been flat for a while, and I think it's reasonable to assume that it will for -- in the future for a while.

百分比——該比率略有下降，因為總保費略有上升，但勞動運營支出的美元價值在一段時間內一直持平，我認為有理由假設它會——在未來一段時間。

Okay. So opportunity for continuing improvement in the ratio.

好的。因此，該比率有持續改善的機會。

Yes, yes.

是的是的。

Okay. And then the -- I think I can back into the math, but your hit rate, 125,000 policies, you talk about premium $150 million to $250 million. I didn't get to my calculator fast enough, but what do you think could be the hit rates on that? How does that kind of compare to your historic experience?

好的。然後--我想我可以回到數學上，但你的命中率，125,000 份保單，你談論的保費為 1.5 億至 2.5 億美元。我沒有足夠快地使用計算器，但你認為它的命中率是多少？這與您的歷史經驗相比如何？

Mark, I think it's going to be very similar to what we've said in the past, right? And I think we had said when all is said and done, we will end up with somewhere like pick a number between 40,000 to 70,000 policies, somewhere in that kind of range in terms of policy count. Percentages, you can sort of say that's somewhere between 33% and 65% or so.

馬克，我認為這與我們過去所說的非常相似，對吧？我認為我們已經說過，當一切都說了又做了之後，我們最終會選擇 40,000 到 70,000 份保單之間的數字，就保單數量而言，在這個範圍內。百分比，可以說是 33% 到 65% 左右。

That seems to be pretty good. Is that a function of less competition or more astute picking? You're picking policies that others have overlooked? Or I guess, you're saying that's not inconsistent with the past?

這似乎還不錯。這是競爭減少還是選擇更精明的結果？您正在選擇其他人忽視的政策？或者我猜，你是說這跟過去並不矛盾？

Yes. So I think I'll leave -- I'll just make some general comments. So we are expecting somewhere between that -- and I just did the calculator math, sorry, it's between 40% and 60%, right, is what we're expecting our success rate to be. I don't necessarily know that everybody else is also in the 40% to 60% range. We haven't followed everybody closely enough to know that. We just know that we run our own race. And that was what we were kind of hoping to get, and we seem to be achieving that mechanism because that's where our technology enables us to do, yes.

是的。所以我想我會離開——我只會發表一些一般性評論。所以我們期望介於這之間——我剛剛做了計算器計算，抱歉，它在 40% 到 60% 之間，對吧，這就是我們期望的成功率。我不一定知道其他人也都在 40% 到 60% 的範圍內。我們沒有足夠密切地關注每個人，因此無法了解這一點。我們只知道我們在跑自己的比賽。這就是我們希望得到的，我們似乎正在實現這種機制，因為這就是我們的技術使我們能夠做到的，是的。

We try to make it a smooth and easy transition for Citizens policyholders. And because of that, large numbers of them are -- look at this as a favorable opportunity to leave Citizens and join us, and that's what they do. And then they stay with us. To give you an idea because Casey asked earlier about takeouts, we have policyholders now who are on their 17th renewal with us. And these are people we'd depopulated from Citizens back in 2007. So as you're watching this play out, it's -- we run our own race and we know how our book behaves.

我們努力讓公民保單持有人順利、輕鬆地過渡。正因為如此，他們中的許多人認為這是離開公民並加入我們的有利機會，而這就是他們所做的。然後他們就和我們在一起。為了給您一個想法，因為凱西早些時候詢問了有關外賣的問題，我們現在有保單持有人正在與我們進行第 17 次續保。這些人是我們早在 2007 年就從《公民》中剔除的。所以當你看到這一切的時候，我們在進行自己的比賽，我們知道我們的書是如何表現的。

Matt Carletti with JMP.

JMP 的 Matt Carletti。

Just a couple numbers of housekeeping questions, probably for Mark. Net written premium and TypTap surplus if you have -- or surplus at TypTap, if you have it.

只是幾個內務問題，可能是針對馬克的。淨承保保費和 TypTap 盈餘（如果您有）—或 TypTap 盈餘（如果您有）。

Yes. So net written premium consolidated was $132 million -- $132.1 million and TypTap -- and then -- sorry, and then TypTap surplus, $91.6 million.

是的。因此，合併後的淨承保保費為 1.32 億美元——1.321 億美元，TypTap 為 1.321 億美元——然後——抱歉，然後 TypTap 盈餘為 9,160 萬美元。

(Operator Instructions) At this time, this concludes our question-and-answer session. I would now like to turn the call back over to Paresh Patel who has a few closing remarks.

（操作員說明） 至此，我們的問答環節就結束了。我現在想將電話轉回給帕雷什·帕特爾（Paresh Patel），他會做總結發言。

Thank you. On behalf of the entire management team, I would like to thank our shareholders, employees, agents and most importantly, our policyholders for their continued support. Thank you.

謝謝。我謹代表整個管理團隊感謝我們的股東、員工、代理人，最重要的是我們的保單持有人的持續支持。謝謝。

At this time, this concludes our question and answer session. This concludes today's call. You may now disconnect.

至此，我們的問答環節就結束了。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。