Genco Shipping & Trading Ltd (GNK) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Genco Shipping & Trading Limited First Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call and Presentation. Before we begin, please note that there will be a slide presentation accompanying today's conference call. That presentation can be obtained from Genco's website at www.gencoshipping.com to inform everyone, today's conference is being recorded and is now being webcast at the company's website www.gencohipping.com. We will conduct a question-and-answer session after the opening remarks. Instructions will follow at that time.

女士們、先生們，早安，歡迎參加 Genco Shipping & Trading Limited 2025 年第一季財報電話會議和演示會。在我們開始之前，請注意，今天的電話會議將會有一個幻燈片演示。此簡報可從 Genco 的網站 www.gencoshipping.com 取得。特此通知，今天的會議已錄製完畢，並在公司網站 www.gencohipping.com 上進行網路直播。開幕致詞後，我們將進行問答環節。屆時將會有相關指示。

A webcast replay will also be available via the link provided in today's press release as well as on the company's website. At this time, I will now turn the conference over to the company. Please go ahead.

您還可以透過今天的新聞稿中提供的連結以及公司網站觀看網路直播重播。現在，我將會議移交給公司。請繼續。

Good morning. Before we begin our presentation, I note that in this conference call we will be making certain forward-looking statements pursuant to the safe harbour provisions of the Private Security Litigation Reform Act of 1,995. Such forward-looking statements use words such as anticipate, budget, estimate, expect, project, intend, plan, believe. In other words, in terms of similar meaning in connection with the discussion of potential future events, circumstances or future operating or financial performance. These forward-looking. Statements are based on management's current expectations and observations for a discussion of factors that could cause results to differ. Please see the company's press release that was issued yesterday, materials relating to this call posted on the company's website, and the company's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including without limitation, the company's annual report on Form 10K for the year ended December 31, 2024, and the company's reports on Form 10 and Form 8K subsequently filed with the SEC.

早安.在我們開始示範之前，我指出，在本次電話會議中，我們將根據 1995 年《私人安全訴訟改革法案》的安全港條款做出某些前瞻性聲明。此類前瞻性陳述使用諸如預期、預算、估計、期望、預計、打算、計劃、相信等詞語。換句話說，在討論潛在的未來事件、情況或未來經營或財務表現時具有類似的含義。這些具有前瞻性。這些聲明是基於管理層當前的預期和對可能導致結果不同的因素的討論的觀察。請參閱本公司昨天發布的新聞稿、公司網站上發布的與本次電話會議相關的資料以及本公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括但不限於本公司截至2024年12月31日的10K表格年度報告以及本公司隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的10表格和8K表格報告。

At this time, I would like to introduce John Wobensmith, Chief Executive Officer of Genco Shipping & Trading Limited

現在，我想介紹 Genco Shipping & Trading Limited 的執行長 John Wobensmith

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Genco's First Quarter, 2025 Conference Call. I will begin today's call by reviewing our Q1 2025 and year-to-date highlights. Additionally, we will provide an update on our value strategy, highlight our new share repurchase program, and discuss our financial results for the quarter, as well as the industry's current fundamentals before opening the call up for questions.

大家早安。歡迎參加 Genco 2025 年第一季電話會議。我將在今天的電話會議上回顧我們 2025 年第一季和年初至今的亮點。此外，在開始提問之前，我們將提供我們的價值策略的最新信息，重點介紹我們的新股票回購計劃，並討論本季度的財務業績以及行業當前的基本面。

For additional information, please also refer to our earnings presentation posted on our website.

欲了解更多信息，請參閱我們網站上發布的收益報告。

Beginning on slide 5, despite the seasonally softer first quarter and consistent with our success providing dividends to shareholders through market cycles, we continue to prioritize our quarterly dividend policy. Specifically, we declared a $0.15 per share dividend, extending our track record of providing 23/4 of consecutive dividends and marking the longest stretch of uninterrupted dividends in our drivel peer group.

從第 5 張投影片開始，儘管第一季季節性疲軟，並且與我們在市場週期中向股東提供股息的成功一致，我們仍然優先考慮我們的季度股息政策。具體來說，我們宣布每股股利 0.15 美元，延續了我們連續股利 23/4 的記錄，並創下了我們同類公司中最長的不間斷派息記錄。

Over this period, Genco has declared $6.765 per share of dividends, representing 50% of our current share price.

在此期間，Genco 宣布每股股利 6.765 美元，佔目前股價的 50%。

Notably for the first quarter of 2025, our dividend formula, including a voluntary reserve of $19.5 million would not have produced a dividend. However, management and the board chose to reduce the reserve.

值得注意的是，對於 2025 年第一季度，我們的股利公式（包括 1,950 萬美元的自願儲備金）不會產生股利。然而，管理階層和董事會選擇減少儲備。

From $19.5 million to $1.1 million for the quarter resulting in the $0.15 per share dividend, this highlights our commitment to our dividend and returns to shareholders, as well as our favourable view of the long-term fundamentals of the drive milk industry and the improving freight environment in Q2 so far.

本季從 1,950 萬美元降至 110 萬美元，每股股息為 0.15 美元，這凸顯了我們對股息和股東回報的承諾，以及我們對驅動牛奶行業長期基本面和第二季度迄今為止不斷改善的貨運環境的樂觀看法。

We have paid sizable dividends to shareholders in different freight environments over the past 6 years as highlighted on page 6, and we are pleased to build upon this strong track record by putting in place a $50 million share repurchase program.

正如第 6 頁所強調的，過去 6 年裡，我們在不同的貨運環境中向股東支付了可觀的股息，我們很高興在此基礎上實施了 5000 萬美元的股票回購計劃。

We believe that significant equity market volatility has resulted in a disconnect between our share valuation and the underlying fundamentals of our business. We have long held the view that when this extreme dynamic materializes, it is the appropriate time to put in place a share repurchase program.

我們認為，股市的大幅波動導致我們的股票估值與業務基本面脫節。我們一直認為，當這種極端動態成為現實時，就是實施股票回購計畫的適當時機。

This is a capital allocation tool that we have extensively evaluated throughout the cycle and view this as a compelling and opportunistic way to capture shareholder value if we continue to experience downward volatility.

這是我們在整個週期中廣泛評估的資本配置工具，如果我們繼續經歷下行波動，我們認為這是一種獲取股東價值的引人注目且機會主義的方式。

Importantly, the share repurchase program is incremental to our quarterly dividend policy, which we intend to maintain as our primary method of returning cash to shareholders.

重要的是，股票回購計畫是我們季度股利政策的增量，我們打算將其作為向股東返還現金的主要方式。

Turning to slide 7 with an industry low net loan to value ratio of 6%, a low cash flow break even rate, and over $320 million in undrawn revolver availability, we believe Genco remains in a highly advantageous position to successfully operate in the current volatile geopolitical environment and continue to differentiate ourselves from our dry bulk peer group.

翻到幻燈片 7，Genco 擁有行業最低的 6% 淨貸款價值比率、較低的現金流盈虧平衡率以及超過 3.2 億美元的未提取循環信貸額度，我們相信，Genco 仍然處於非常有利的地位，能夠在當前動蕩的地緣政治環境中成功運營，並繼續在乾散貨同行中脫穎而出。

Going forward, we remain focused on executing on the three pillars of our value strategy dividends, deleveraging, and capitalizing on a creative growth and fleet renewal opportunities.

展望未來，我們將繼續專注於執行價值策略紅利、去槓桿以及利用創意成長和船隊更新機會的三大支柱。

We also intend to act opportunistically in carrying out our new share repurchase program to create long-term shareholder value.

我們還打算抓住機會實施新的股票回購計劃，以創造長期股東價值。

From a drive off market perspective, in January and February, the freight rate environment experienced typical seasonal factors as weather conditions in key export regions reduced seaborne volumes, temporarily misaligning the supply and demand balance resulting in pressure on freight rates. However, in March, freight rates rallied as some of these temporary factors dissipated. We saw cap rates rise from under $6000 a day to nearly $24,000 a day in a matter of weeks, highlighting the significant operating leverage inherent in the business. As we look forward with added long haul tons hitting the market towards the end of 2025 and into 2026, together with a historically low cap size order book, the potential catalysts are clear. We currently are in an operating environment characterized by compelling dry bulk supply and demand fundamentals, but also an ever changing geopolitical landscape. During times like these, we focus on what we can control, what is, what, which is our capital structure and our asset base. Maintaining low financial leverage and in turn a low cash flow break even enables Genco to not only continue to pay dividends in periods of downward volatility. But also to take advantage of a creative growth opportunities with a wide variety of capital allocation tools at our disposal.

從市場驅動力來看，1月和2月，運費環境經歷了典型的季節性因素，主要出口地區的天氣狀況減少了海運量，導致供需平衡暫時失衡，從而對運費構成壓力。不過，3月份，隨著部分暫時性因素的消散，運費出現上漲。我們看到資本化率在短短幾週內從每天不到 6,000 美元上升到每天近 24,000 美元，凸顯了該業務固有的巨大經營槓桿。我們期待在 2025 年底和 2026 年增加長途運輸噸位進入市場，再加上歷史上較低的訂單量，潛在的催化劑顯而易見。我們目前所處的經營環境的特點是乾散貨供需基本面強勁，但地緣政治格局也在不斷變化。在這樣的時期，我們關注的是我們可以控制什麼，什麼是我們的資本結構和資產基礎。保持較低的財務槓桿，進而保持較低的現金流損益平衡，使得 Genco 不僅能夠在市場下行波動時期繼續支付股息。而且我們還可以充分利用各種資本配置工具來創造成長機會。

We believe this capital allocation strategy works well in all operating environments, will enable Genco to be nimble as markets develop, and offer a compelling risk reward balance for our investors. I will now turn the call over to Peter Allen, our Chief Financial Officer.

我們相信，這種資本配置策略在所有營運環境中都行之有效，將使 Genco 隨著市場發展而變得靈活，並為我們的投資者提供引人注目的風險回報平衡。現在我將電話轉給我們的財務長彼得艾倫 (Peter Allen)。

Thank you, John. On slides 9 through 11, we highlight our first quarter financial results. Genco recorded a net loss of $11.9 million or $0.28 basic and diluted net loss per share.

謝謝你，約翰。在第 9 至 11 張投影片中，我們重點介紹了第一季的財務表現。Genco 淨虧損 1,190 萬美元，即每股基本淨虧損和稀釋淨虧損 0.28 美元。

You would die for Q1 totalled $7.9 million.

你會為 Q1 總計 790 萬美元而死。

On slide 12, we showed the trajectory of our debt outstanding and our continued voluntary debt repayments. Since the inception of our value strategy, we've paid down 80% of our debt, or nearly $360 million which has resulted in a net loan to value of 6%.

在第 12 張投影片上，我們展示了未償還債務的軌跡以及我們持續自願償還債務的情況。自從我們的價值策略開始實施以來，我們已經償還了 80% 的債務，即近 3.6 億美元，這使得淨貸款價值比率達到 6%。

Specifically over the last year and a half we have voluntarily paid down $110 million of debt under our revolving credit facility, the benefits of which we're seeing in interest expense year over year, which was $1.5 million lower, equating to $6 million annualized, or approximately $400 per vessel per day on our cash flow break even rate.

具體來說，在過去的一年半中，我們自願償還了循環信貸額度下的 1.1 億美元債務，我們看到利息支出同比下降了 150 萬美元，相當於年化 600 萬美元，或者按照我們的現金流盈虧平衡率計算，每艘船每天約為 400 美元。

Voluntarily paying down debt highlights the importance and significant flexibility that our current 100% revolver structure offers us and that we can pay down debt to actively manage interest expenses without losing borrowing capacity to capture a creative growth opportunities as markets develop.

自願償還債務凸顯了我們目前 100% 的循環信貸結構為我們帶來的重要性和巨大的靈活性，我們可以償還債務以積極管理利息支出，而不會失去借貸能力，從而抓住市場發展過程中的創造性成長機會。

Turning to slide 13, we present a current snapshot of Genco's financial position as of March 30, 2025.

翻到第 13 張投影片，我們展示了截至 2025 年 3 月 30 日 Genco 財務狀況的最新快照。

We have a cash and debt balance of $31 million and $0.90 million dollars respectively, resulting in a net debt position of $59 million and an industry low that loan to value of 6% on our 42 vessel fleet. Additionally, we have $324 million of undrawn revolver availability which we can utilize to further invest in our fleet to capture a creative growth opportunities among other uses.

我們的現金和債務餘額分別為 3,100 萬美元和 90 萬美元，導致淨債務狀況為 5,900 萬美元，而我們 42 艘船隊的貸款價值比為 6%，處於行業最低水平。此外，我們還有 3.24 億美元的未提取循環信貸，我們可以利用這些資金進一步投資我們的車隊，以抓住創造性的成長機會等。

Moving to slide 14, we highlight our quarterly dividend policy, which targets a distribution based on 100% of operating cash flow plus a voluntary reserve. For the first quarter, our board of directors declared a $0.15 per share dividend based on operating cash flow of approximately $8 million and a voluntary quarterly reserve of $1 million. Looking ahead to Q2 2025, we currently have 68% of owned available days fixed at a rate of approximately $14,000 per day. As compared to our anticipated cash flow break even rate excluding dry docking related CapEx of $8750 per vessel per day.

轉到第 14 張投影片，我們重點介紹了我們的季度股利政策，該政策的目標是根據 100% 的經營現金流加上自願儲備金進行分配。對於第一季度，我們的董事會宣布根據約 800 萬美元的經營現金流和 100 萬美元的自願季度儲備金派發每股 0.15 美元的股息。展望 2025 年第二季度，我們目前擁有 68% 的可用天數，固定費率約為每天 14,000 美元。與我們預期的不包括乾船塢相關資本支出的現金流量損益平衡率相比，每艘船每天 8750 美元。

Q2 TCE estimates are currently 18% higher than the actual Q1 TCE, which highlight the freight rate improvement seen in March that carried over into April. This improvement has been led by our capsized vessels, which in Q2 to date are currently fixed at approximately $18,700 per day, an increase of over 40% from $13,000 per day in Q1, further highlighting the significant operating leverage of the sector. We note that Genco, like much of the industry, has a large-scale dry-docking program in 2025. We completed dry docking on 4 vessels during the first quarter with another 3 vessels that entered the yard in Q1.

目前，第二季 TCE 預估比第一季實際 TCE 高出 18%，這凸顯了 3 月運費上漲的勢頭，並且這種上漲趨勢一直延續到了 4 月。這項改善主要得益於我們的傾覆船舶，截至第二季度，傾覆船舶的租金目前約為每天 18,700 美元，比第一季的每天 13,000 美元增加了 40% 以上，進一步凸顯了該行業顯著的經營槓桿。我們注意到，Genco 與業內大部分公司一樣，在 2025 年制定了一項大規模乾船塢計劃。我們在第一季完成了 4 艘船舶的乾塢維修，另有 3 艘船舶於第一季進入船廠。

We plan to continue to front load these dry dockings during the first half of the year as we seek to maximize fleetwide utilization in the second half of the year, which tends to be seasonally stronger from a freight rate perspective. Lastly, regarding capital location over the course of this dry volt market cycle, we have prioritized strengthening our balance sheet through voluntary debt repayments, modernizing our fleet, and returning cash to shareholders through quarterly dividends, which have proven to be prudent strategies. Going forward, we remain focused on these three pillars while adding an additional capital locationpool in the new share repurchase program as we continuously evaluate various uses of capital to drive shareholder value. I will now turn the call over to Michael Orr, our drive local market analyst, to discuss industry fundamentals.

我們計劃在上半年繼續提前進行這些乾船塢作業，以期在下半年最大限度地提高整個船隊的利用率，從運費的角度來看，下半年的季節性需求往往更為強勁。最後，關於在本次幹伏特市場週期中的資本配置，我們優先透過自願償還債務、現代化我們的車隊以及透過季度股息向股東返還現金來加強我們的資產負債表，事實證明，這是審慎的策略。展望未來，我們將繼續專注於這三大支柱，同時在新的股票回購計畫中增加額外的資本位置池，並持續評估各種資本用途以推動股東價值。現在，我將把電話轉給我們的本地市場分析師 Michael Orr，討論產業基本面。

Thank you, Peter.

謝謝你，彼得。

Beginning on slide 16, the dry bulk freight rate environment was impacted by seasonal factors including weather-related disruptions in Brazil and Australia, reducing cargo availability, the front loaded nature of the new building deliveries, as well as the timing of the Chinese New Year.

從第 16 張投影片開始，乾散貨運運費環境受到季節性因素的影響，包括巴西和澳洲的天氣幹擾、貨物供應減少、新船交付的前期裝載性質以及中國新年的時間。

After averaging over $20,000 per day for 14 consecutive months from October 2023 to November 2024, the Baltic capsize index averaged approximately $10,000 per day from December to February, bottoming at $5900 on February 12. However, within weeks, the DCI rose over 300% to nearly $24,000 per day by mid-March, highlighting the significant upside potential of the sector. Currently, the DCI and BSI are at levels of $15,000 and $10,000 per day, respectively.

從 2023 年 10 月到 2024 年 11 月，波羅的海傾覆型船運價指數連續 14 個月平均每天超過 20,000 美元，之後從 12 月到 2 月，平均每天約為 10,000 美元，2 月 12 日跌至 5,900 美元的最低點。然而，幾週之內，DCI 上漲超過 300%，到 3 月中旬達到每天近 24,000 美元，凸顯了該行業巨大的上漲潛力。目前，DCI 和 BSI 分別處於每天 15,000 美元和 10,000 美元的水平。

Turning to page 17, we point to China's steel complex, specifically, the country's iron ore imports fell by 8% year over year during the first quarter, impacted by the reduction of seaborne supplies.

翻到第17頁，我們具體來看中國的鋼鐵企業，受海運供應減少的影響，第一季中國鐵礦石進口量較去年同期下降8%。

China's iron ore port inventories have been drawn down by 7% from earlier year high.

中國鐵礦石港口庫存較去年同期高點下降了7%。

And are now 3% lower on a year over year basis to supplement the downward move in imports.

目前，進口量年減了 3%，以彌補進口量的下降。

Importantly, China's steel production has increased year over year by 1%, with March being the strongest month of output since May 2024.

重要的是，中國鋼鐵產量年增1%，3月份是2024年5月以來產量最高的月份。

China continues to export over 10% of the steel it produces, mostly going to other Asian nations as well as the Middle East, with its proportion of exports to steel output growing over recent years. China's excess steel has remained a point of contention, prompting protectionist measures from various countries.

中國繼續出口其生產的10％以上的鋼鐵，主要銷往其他亞洲國家以及中東地區，其出口占鋼鐵產量的比例近年來不斷上升。中國鋼鐵過剩一直是爭議焦點，引發各國採取貿易保護主義措施。

We believe that if China's exports come under pressure, the country will have to boost demand domestically to achieve growth targets, which could result in augmented demand for raw materials.

我們認為，如果中國的出口面臨壓力，該國將不得不刺激國內需求以實現成長目標，這可能會導致對原材料的需求增加。

During the pages 18 and 19, we highlight the long haul iron ore and bauxite trade growth expected from Brazil and West Africa in the coming years.

在第 18 和 19 頁中，我們重點介紹了未來幾年巴西和西非預計的長期鐵礦石和鋁土礦貿易成長。

While growth this year is expected to be marginal, there are significant growth volumes expected in 2026 and 2027 that can absorb potentially over 200 capsized vessels, which is more than the current cap size new building order book.

雖然預計今年的成長幅度很小，但預計 2026 年和 2027 年的成長量將大幅增加，可能可以吸收超過 200 艘傾覆船舶，這超過了目前新造船訂單的上限規模。

Supply constraints and capsized new building activity combined with added long haul trading distances are two key catalysts for the sector.

供應限制、新船建造活動受阻以及長途貿易距離增加是該產業發展的兩大關鍵催化劑。

In terms of the grain trade as detailed on page 20, we are currently in peak South American grain season. China has been aggressive in purchasing Brazilian soybeans this season, as uncertainty lingers over US-China trade.

就第 20 頁詳述的穀物貿易而言，我們目前正處於南美穀物旺季。由於中美貿易的不確定性，本季中國積極採購巴西大豆。

Currently, current tariffs on US agricultural products make them uncompetitive relative to other exporters. However, volumes to China are traditionally lower in Q2 and Q3 than what would ordinarily be seen during peak North American grain season, which ramps up in Q4.

目前，美國農產品的現行關稅使其相對於其他出口商缺乏競爭力。然而，第二季和第三季對中國的出口量通常低於北美糧食旺季的水平，而第四季對中國的出口量會增加。

Regarding the supply side outline on slide 21, Net fleet growth in the year-to-date is 3.3% on an annualized basis, split between 2% net fleet growth for cap sizes and 3% to 5% net growth for Panamaxes down to handy sizes.

關於幻燈片 21 上的供應方面概述，今年迄今的淨船隊增長率為 3.3%，其中，大宗散貨船淨船隊增長率為 2%，巴拿馬型至靈便型散裝貨船淨增長率為 3% 至 5%。

The capsized segment continues to have the smallest order book among the drive bulk sectors at 8% of the fleet, specifically, only 11 capes delivered in Q1, the least amount of Q1 cape deliveries in over 15 years. Furthermore, there are currently only 28 more cape deliveries expected this year.

傾覆型散裝貨船板塊仍然是散裝貨船訂單量最少的板塊，僅佔散裝貨船隊的 8%，具體來說，第一季僅交付了 11 艘海岬型散裝貨船，這是 15 年來第一季海岬型散裝貨船交付量的最低水準。此外，目前預計今年僅再交付 28 艘好望角型油輪。

Additionally, as scrapping has remained low in recent years, the age of the global fleet has risen to nearly 13 years old, the highest average age of the global drive bulk fleet since 2010.

此外，由於近年來拆船量持續處於低位，全球船隊船齡已升至近13年，為2010年以來全球散裝船隊平均船齡的最高值。

This has increased the pool of potential scrapping candidates as over 10% of the on the water fleet is 20 years or older, which is identical to the global dive bulk order book as a percentage of the fleet.

這增加了潛在報廢船舶的數量，因為超過 10% 的水上船隊服役年限為 20 年或更久，這與全球潛水散裝船訂單佔船隊的比例相同。

This implies net replacement of tonnage over time as opposed to any material net fleet growth.

這意味著隨著時間的推移，噸位將淨替換，而不是任何物質的淨船隊增長。

While we expect volatility in the freight market, the foundation of a low supply growth picture provides a solid basis for our constructive view of the drive bulk market going forward.

雖然我們預期貨運市場將會波動，但低供應成長前景為我們對未來散裝貨市場的建設性看法提供了堅實的基礎。

This concludes our presentation, and we would now be happy to take your questions.

我們的演示到此結束，現在我們很樂意回答您的問題。

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

謝謝各位，女士們、先生們。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

And your first question comes from the line of Omar Nokta with Jeffries.

您的第一個問題來自 Jeffries 的 Omar Nokta。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Hey guys, good morning.

大家好，早安。

Just a couple of questions on my end and maybe you know John, you opened with this or touched on this in some good detail, but just wanted to ask if you could maybe just explain a bit more on the share buyback. Obviously, it's a big number I'd say relative to the market cap and the float. Maybe just how did you come about the, this, the disagreement on the buyback and how do you see yourself putting it to work and I guess just to remind you how does that, how does that work with the dividend policy currently in place?

我這邊只想問幾個問題，也許你知道約翰，你一開始就談到了這一點，或者詳細地談到了這一點，但我只是想問你是否可以更詳細地解釋一下股票回購的情況。顯然，我認為相對於市值和流通股來說，這是一個很大的數字。也許您是如何對回購產生分歧的，您如何看待自己將其付諸實踐，我想只是想提醒您，這與現行的股息政策如何配合？

Okay, so let me take the dividend policy first. I can't stress enough this is a bolt on. It is incremental to the to the dividend policy. It will not affect not only our ability but our decision to pay dividends going forward. The formula is the same.

好的，那我先來談談股利政策。我再怎麼強調也不為過，這是附加因素。它對股利政策來說是增量的。這不僅不會影響我們未來支付股利的能力，也不會影響我們的決定。公式是一樣的。

And obviously if there is downward volatility, we will continue to pay dividends as we have this quarter as well as we had a couple quarters in 2023. So incremental, I would say that it is, it was put in place for very opportunistic reasons it's. I don't look at it as we're going to consistently be in the market buying shares. It's really to protect and take advantage if we see, the extreme volatility downwards that that we saw a few weeks ago, and you'll also probably notice there's no expiration date on the share buyback program, so. It's something that we plan to have in place for the for the foreseeable future in terms of sizing it, we looked at what others have done not only in shipping but also across the across several other industries and as a percentage of market cap, we think it's we think it's the right number.

顯然，如果出現下行波動，我們將繼續支付股息，就像本季以及 2023 年的幾季一樣。所以我認為它是漸進式的，它是出於機會主義的原因而實施的。我並不認為我們會持續在市場上買股票。這實際上是為了保護和利用我們看到的幾週前出現的極端波動，您可能還會注意到股票回購計劃沒有到期日，所以。這是我們計劃在可預見的未來實施的計劃，就規模而言，我們不僅在航運業，而且在其他幾個行業也研究了其他人的做法，作為市值的百分比，我們認為這是正確的數字。

Thanks, John. That makes a lot of sense. And I guess maybe just in that context in terms of, I guess there's two parts to kind of the share valuation. There's, the buyback perhaps in response to these aggressive moves in the market and then there's also just say the underlying discount valuation that the stock currently has relative to asset values. Maybe just as you think about asset values specifically, how are you thinking? About those values or what are you seeing from your vantage point in terms of where pricing is they seem to have held up a bit better than we would have anticipated just given all the, macro, but just wanted to get your perspective on what behind. Sort of this market remaining buoyant as it has been.

謝謝，約翰。這很有道理。我想也許就這個背景而言，股票估值有兩個部分。回購可能是對市場這些激進舉措的回應，也可能是說股票目前相對於資產價值的潛在折扣估值。也許正如您具體思考資產價值時所想的那樣，您是怎麼想的？關於這些價值，或從您的有利位置來看，就定價而言，它們似乎比我們預期的要好一些，只是考慮到所有的宏觀因素，但我只是想了解您對背後原因的看法。這個市場仍然像以前一樣活躍。

Yeah, it's not only buoyant, but it's actually moved up to some degree over the last couple of months.

是的，它不僅很活躍，而且在過去的幾個月裡實際上有所上升。

There, first of all, there's just not a lot of newer tonnage that is being let go, it's being put on the market for sale. A lot of the, most of the tonnage and the liquidity in the S&P market is coming from older ships. But the newer vessels clearly are holding value. They they've increased a little bit, and I think all you have to do is look to the to the price of new buildings right now. There's certainly a correlation and a link to that, and those prices continue.

首先，沒有太多的新噸位被淘汰，而是被放入市場上出售。標準普爾市場的大部分噸位和流動性都來自老舊船舶。但較新的船隻顯然具有價值。它們的價格已經上漲了一點，我認為你所要做的就是看看現在新建築的價格。這其中肯定存在著相關性和聯繫，而且這些價格還會持續上漲。

To remain firm and as we all know, when you're ordering today, you're really talking about late 2028, early 2029 delivery at this point, so that I think that also keeps, has been keeping these prices firm.

保持堅定，眾所周知，當您今天訂購時，您實際上談論的是 2028 年末或 2029 年初的交貨時間，所以我認為這也能保持這些價格的堅挺。

Got it. Thanks, John. I'll turn it over.

知道了。謝謝，約翰。我把它翻過來。

Thanks, Omar.

謝謝，奧馬爾。

Your next question comes from Liam Burke with B. Riley Securities. Please go ahead. Thank.

您的下一個問題來自 B. Riley Securities 的 Liam Burke。請繼續。感謝。

You. Good morning, John. Good morning, Peter.

你。早安，約翰。早安，彼得。

Good morning.

早安.

The question I had is when we're looking at the minor bulks, I mean, you parsed up the bauxite and iron ore trade and the grain trade.

我的問題是，當我們查看小宗散貨時，我的意思是，您分析了鋁土礦和鐵礦石貿易以及穀物貿易。

How are you viewing coal and their influence on the non-cave sized vessels?

您如何看待煤炭及其對非洞穴大小船隻的影響？

So coal, just like every other commodity ebbs and flows. We certainly saw softness in the beginning of the first quarter, but I would say that, coal has come back into the market.

因此，煤炭就像其他所有商品一樣，有漲有跌。我們確實在第一季初看到了疲軟，但我想說，煤炭已經重返市場。

It's, I wouldn't call it booming, but it, but it's certainly there, slow and steady. I think if you look at the minor bus, you have a few things going on. One, there's a front-loaded delivery schedule, which is the case in most years. So, there's been 5% annualized net fleet growth so far this year, but that's an annualized number just to be clear.

我不會稱之為蓬勃發展，但它確實存在，緩慢而穩定。我認為如果你看一下小型巴士，你會發現一些事情正在發生。一是有一個前期交付計劃，大多數年份都是如此。因此，今年迄今為止，年化淨船隊成長率為 5%，但這只是年化數字，以示明確。

Q1, we're in between drain season, South American versus US golf, but I also think it's, there's some questions around, how much soy and corn will actually come out of the US Gulf as we get into the season later this year just because China has been buying.

Q1，我們正處於排水季節，南美洲和美國高爾夫之間，但我還認為，還有一些問題，隨著今年晚些時候進入季節，由於中國一直在購買，實際上有多少大豆和玉米會從美國墨西哥灣流出。

A lot from Brazil. We obviously know the trade battle that is going on between the US and China, and I think you can go back to 2018 time periods and see what happened as a result of the back and forth.

很多來自巴西。我們顯然知道美國和中國之間正在進行的貿易戰，我認為你可以回顧 2018 年的時期，看看來來回回的結果。

There was also a lot of uncertainty around USTR and who was going to be paying for fees and who wasn't, and that that definitely stopped the market for a few weeks as people were trying to figure out how to build language into charter parties so that it did not become the responsibility of the of the of the ship owners. So, things slowed down significantly. In fact, I would tell you there was a 3 week stretch there.

圍繞著美國貿易代表辦公室（USTR）以及誰將支付費用、誰不支付費用也存在很多不確定性，這無疑導致市場停滯了幾週，因為人們正在試圖弄清楚如何在租船合約中加入相關條款，這樣這就不會成為船東的責任。因此，事情進展明顯放緩。事實上，我想告訴你，那裡有 3 週的時間。

That there was really no new business being done. The only business that was being done was contractual in nature and had already been booked, so I think that also put pressure on the minor bots in the first quarter.

確實沒有開展任何新業務。唯一正在進行的業務是合約性質的，並且已經被預訂了，所以我認為這也給第一季的小型機器人帶來了壓力。

Great. And no matter how you look at it, your leverage is exceedingly low is net debt zero an objective anymore, or just moderate leverage and which will allow you to pursue your capital allocation program?

偉大的。而且無論你怎麼看，你的槓桿率都非常低，淨債務為零是否仍是一個目標，或者只是適度的槓桿率，這將允許你實施你的資本配置計劃？

Yeah, look, net debt zero is still, is still a goal.

是的，淨債務為零仍然是一個目標。

We could easily get there by the end of this year. All things, remaining equal right now. Having said that, it doesn't mean that if an acquisition comes up and it's accreted to earnings, cash flow, and dividends. That, we won't lever up a little bit. But you're not going to see us in the 50%, 60% kind of leverage, it maybe it goes up as high as 30%, but then we bring it back down just like we have in the past, and I think again, the company is just so well set up to do those types of things, and that's why we think we've got the best risk reward position right now.

我們可以輕鬆在今年年底實現這一目標。一切事物，此刻都維持不變。話雖如此，但這並不意味著如果發生收購就會增加收益、現金流和股息。那，我們不會稍微提高一點槓桿。但你不會看到我們的槓桿率達到 50% 或 60%，也許會高達 30%，但隨後我們會像過去一樣將其降低，而且我認為，公司已經為做這些事情做好了充分的準備，這就是為什麼我們認為我們現在擁有最佳的風險回報地位。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you, John.

謝謝你，約翰。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Your next question comes from Paul Fret with Alliance Global Partners. Please go ahead.

您的下一個問題來自 Alliance Global Partners 的 Paul Fret。請繼續。

Hey, good morning, can you just, can you expand on the US trade decision, you put a little bit of a comment in your 10Q about the exemption for less than 80,000 dead weight tons, I think, but can you expand on whether you think you're going to be impacted if it, if at all by the port fees?

嘿，早上好，您能否詳細說明一下美國的貿易決定，我認為您在 10Q 中對少於 80,000 載重噸的豁免發表了一些評論，但您能否詳細說明一下您是否認為您會受到港口費用的影響？

Yeah, so the short answer is we do not see any impact.

是的，簡而言之，我們沒有看到任何影響。

We will be exempt for US trading. You pointed out the less than 80,000 dead weight tons, so that's, that covers our minor fleet going in and out of the US. And then our capes, there's also an exception that you're not charged port fees if you come to the United States in ballast. And that's the only way that our capes have traded in the US. We don't do a lot of US trade just to be clear with our capes, but the capes come empty. They usually pick up coal in either Baltimore or Norfolk Hampton Roads area and then and then, leave full so that that type of trade would be exempt as well. So, just going back, we don't see impact at this point.

我們將免於在美國進行貿易。您指出載重量不到 80,000 噸，所以這涵蓋了我們進出美國的小型船隊。還有我們的海角，還有一個例外，如果你以壓載方式來到美國，則無需支付港口費。這是我們的海角在美國進行貿易的唯一方式。為了明確我們的斗篷，我們不與美國進行大量貿易，但斗篷是空的。他們通常在巴爾的摩或諾福克漢普頓路地區裝載煤炭，然後滿載而歸，因此這種類型的交易也可以免稅。所以，回顧一下，我們目前沒有看到影響。

That's really helpful. And then, the two parts of the fleet, profile enhancement, buying newer tonnage, but also selling some of the older tonnage. Can you update us on sort of what the tone of the market is for selling, some of the smaller older tonnage that you have?

這真的很有幫助。然後，船隊的兩部分，形象得到提升，購買了較新的噸位，同時也出售了一些較舊的噸位。您能否向我們介紹市場對您所擁有的一些較小、較舊噸位船舶的銷售情況？

Yeah, I think it's fairly good right now.

是的，我認為現在相當不錯。

If you, if you'd asked me a month ago, I would have a have a different, a different answer, but with USTR providing not just clarity, but some, what I would say is some sensible thoughts on it, people are buying and selling ships again. So, I would say it's a pretty liquid market on the older ships.

如果您，如果您一個月前問我，我會有一個不同的答案，但是現在美國貿易代表辦公室不僅提供了明確的解釋，而且還提供了一些我想說的明智想法，人們又開始買賣船舶了。所以，我想說，老式船舶的市場流動性相當強。

And I still believe that the market overall, there's an optimistic view, which is why you're seeing these older ships being bought.

我仍然相信，整個市場都持樂觀態度，這就是為什麼你會看到這些老船被購買。

Great.

偉大的。

Thanks.

謝謝。

For your time, John.

謝謝您的寶貴時間，約翰。

Thanks.

謝謝。

As there are no further questions at this time, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

由於目前沒有其他問題，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，並請您斷開線路。