Fidelity National Financial Inc (FNF) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to FNF's first quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

早上好，歡迎參加 FNF 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）

I would now like to turn the call over to Lisa Foxworthy-Parker, SVP, Investor and External Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我想將電話轉給投資者和外部關係高級副總裁 Lisa Foxworthy-Parker。請繼續。

Thanks, operator, and welcome, everyone. I'm joined today by Mike Nolan, CEO; and Tony Park, CFO. We look forward to addressing your questions following our prepared remarks. F&G's management team, including Chris Blunt, Chief Executive Officer; Conor Murphy, Chief Financial Officer; and Wendy Young, Chief Liability Officer, will also be available for Q&A.

謝謝接線員，歡迎大家。今天和我一起參加的是執行長 Mike Nolan；以及財務長 Tony Park。我們期待在發表完準備好的發言後解答您的問題。 F&G 的管理團隊，包括執行長 Chris Blunt；康納墨菲 (Conor Murphy)，財務長；首席責任官 Wendy Young 也將參加問答環節。

Today's earnings call may include forward-looking statements and projections under the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act, which do not guarantee future events or performance. We do not undertake any duty to revise or update such statements to reflect new information, subsequent events or changes in strategy. Please refer to our most recent quarterly and annual reports and other SEC filings for details on important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied.

今天的收益電話會議可能包括《私人證券訴訟改革法案》下的前瞻性陳述和預測，這些陳述和預測不保證未來事件或表現。我們不承擔修改或更新此類聲明以反映新資訊、後續事件或策略變更的任何義務。有關可能導致實際結果與明示或暗示的結果存在重大差異的重要因素的詳細信息，請參閱我們最近的季度和年度報告以及其他 SEC 文件。

This morning's discussion also includes non-GAAP measures, which management believes are relevant in assessing the financial performance of the business. Non-GAAP measures have been reconciled to GAAP where required and in accordance with SEC rules within our earnings materials available on the company's investor website. Please note that today's call is being recorded and will be available for a webcast replay.

今天早上的討論還包括非公認會計準則指標，管理層認為這些指標與評估企業的財務表現有關。在公司投資者網站上提供的收益資料中，非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 指標已根據需要與公認會計準則 (GAAP) 進行協調，並符合美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 的規定。請注意，今天的通話正在錄音，並可透過網路直播重播。

And with that, I'll hand the call over to Mike Nolan.

說完這些，我將把電話交給麥克諾蘭 (Mike Nolan)。

Thank you, Lisa, and good morning. Overall, the combined business continued to deliver strong financial results through the first quarter. Starting with Title, we delivered an adjusted pretax title earnings of $211 million and achieved an industry-leading adjusted pretax title margin of 11.7% for the first quarter, an increase of 100 basis points over the 10.7% margin in the prior year quarter. We are pleased with our first quarter title results which are a testament to our employees as well as the operational efficiencies that we have achieved over the last few decades through investments in technology.

謝謝你，麗莎，早安。總體而言，合併後的業務在第一季繼續取得強勁的財務業績。從產權開始，我們實現了 2.11 億美元的調整後稅前產權收益，並在第一季度實現了行業領先的 11.7% 的調整後稅前產權利潤率，比去年同期的 10.7% 增加了 100 個基點。我們對第一季的業績感到滿意，這證明了我們的員工以及我們過去幾十年透過對科技的投資所取得的營運效率。

Our investments are enabling our team to deliver margins above prior market troughs, and we believe will likewise deliver higher margins at the peak of the next cycle. We continue to generate strong free cash flows during this period of low transactional volume. This enables us to have a dynamic capital allocation strategy focused on returning capital to shareholders through our dividend and share repurchases and investing in our business through ongoing technology and growth investments, including M&A and talent acquisition as well as investing in F&G's growth engine.

我們的投資使我們的團隊能夠提供高於先前市場低谷的利潤率，並且我們相信在下一個週期的高峰期也將提供更高的利潤率。在交易量較低的時期，我們持續產生強勁的自由現金流。這使我們能夠制定動態資本配置策略，專注於透過股息和股票回購向股東返還資本，並透過持續的技術和成長投資（包括併購和人才收購）投資於我們的業務，以及投資 F&G 的成長引擎。

We are well positioned to take advantage of opportunities that arise from the current market volatility and from our investments in technology and process improvement, which I will touch on more in a moment. Looking at our first quarter title results in more detail. On the purchase front, we saw typical first quarter seasonality. For the month of April, we have seen purchase open orders down 3% and due to the impact of uncertainty and mortgage rate volatility. Our daily purchase orders opened were up 3% over the first quarter of 2024, up 22% over the fourth quarter of 2024 and down 3% for the month of April versus the prior year.

我們已做好準備，充分利用當前市場波動以及我們在技術和流程改進方面的投資所帶來的機遇，稍後我將對此進行更詳細的闡述。更詳細地查看我們第一季的標題結果。在購買方面，我們看到了典型的第一季季節性。 4 月份，由於不確定性和抵押貸款利率波動的影響，採購未結訂單下降了 3%。我們的每日採購訂單比 2024 年第一季成長了 3%，比 2024 年第四季成長了 22%，4 月比去年同期下降了 3%。

On the refinance front, volumes continued to respond to movement in mortgage rates. We saw daily refinance orders opened up 1,300 in the first quarter and 1,400 per day in the month of April. Our refinance orders opened per day were up 33% over the first quarter of 2024, up 6% over the fourth quarter of 2024 and up 41% for the month of April versus the prior year.

在再融資方面，交易量繼續對抵押貸款利率的變動做出反應。我們看到，第一季每日再融資訂單量增加 1,300 份，4 月份每日再融資訂單量增加 1,400 份。我們每日開立的再融資訂單比 2024 年第一季成長了 33%，比 2024 年第四季成長了 6%，4 月比去年同期成長了 41%。

On the commercial front, volumes continue to be strong with direct commercial revenue of $293 million in the first quarter, up 23% over the first quarter of 2024. This was our second best commercial first quarter in history from a revenue perspective, driven by national and local revenues, which were both up over 20% versus the prior year quarter. In particular, national daily orders opened were up 19% over the first quarter of 2024 and up 33% for the month of March over March of 2024.

在商業方面，交易量持續保持強勁，第一季直接商業收入為 2.93 億美元，比 2024 年第一季成長 23%。從收入角度來看，這是我們歷史上第二好的商業第一季度，這得益於全國和地方收入，均比去年同期增長了 20% 以上。具體而言，全國日均開單量較2024年第一季成長19%，3月份較2024年3月成長33%。

Notably, we have now four consecutive quarters with double-digit increases in national daily orders opened. Multiple market daily orders opened were up 4% over the first quarter of 2024 and up 10% for the month of March over March of 2024. On the whole, our total commercial orders opened were 862 per day, up 10% over the first quarter of 2024, up 14% over the fourth quarter of 2024 and up 19% for the month of March versus March of 2024. Bringing it all together, total orders opened averaged 5,600 per day in the first order with January at 5,100, February at 5,700 and March at 6,100.

值得注意的是，我們現在已經連續四個季度實現全國日訂單量兩位數成長。多個市場每日開單量比 2024 年第一季成長了 4%，3 月比 2024 年 3 月成長了 10%。整體而言，我們每天開立的商業訂單總數為 862 個，比 2024 年第一季成長 10%，比 2024 年第四季成長 14%，3 月比 2024 年 3 月成長 19%。綜合起來，第一季平均每天開立的訂單總數為 5,600 個，其中 1 月為 5,100 個，2 月為 5,700 個，3 月為 6,100 個。

For the month of April, total orders opened were 5,800 per day, down 5% versus March. As we enter the second quarter and look ahead to the remainder of 2025, there's a range of possible economic scenarios. While we don't have a crystal ball to predict, I do know that our seasoned management team has a proven track record of managing our business to the trend in open orders and varying economic conditions. As I mentioned earlier, this track record has generated a steady level of free cash flow, allowing us to continue to invest in our business through attractive acquisitions and technology as we manage the business and continue to build for the long term.

4月份，每日訂單總量為5,800單，較3月份下降5%。當我們進入第二季並展望 2025 年剩餘時間時，我們會看到一系列可能的經濟狀況。雖然我們沒有水晶球可以預測，但我知道我們經驗豐富的管理團隊在管理業務以適應未結單和不同經濟條件的趨勢方面有著良好的記錄。正如我之前提到的，這樣的業績記錄產生了穩定的自由現金流，使我們能夠在管理業務和繼續進行長期建設的同時，透過有吸引力的收購和技術繼續投資於我們的業務。

We have a differentiated technology foundation that is ahead of the industry and is the engine that drives industry-leading margins. This includes our integrated SoftPro operating platform that is deployed across our full footprint, our automated title efforts in both refinance and purchase that are powered by patented and pioneering technology and our inHere digital transaction platform that is deployed nationwide and in its fourth year of providing an enhanced and reinvented customer experience.

我們擁有領先於產業的差異化技術基礎，這是推動產業領先利潤率的引擎。這包括我們涵蓋全業務範圍的整合 SoftPro 操作平台、由專利和先鋒技術提供支援的再融資和購買方面的自動化所有權工作，以及我們在全國範圍內部署的 inHere 數位交易平台，該平台已投入使用四年，致力於提供增強和重塑的客戶體驗。

This powerful foundation together with our robust curated data gives us an advantage when it comes to integrating and leveraging AI capabilities over time. We are focused on making investments in AI and particularly excited about the potential benefits that AI can provide to increase efficiency and productivity in our operations.

這個強大的基礎加上我們強大的精選數據，使我們在整合和利用人工智慧功能方面具有優勢。我們專注於對人工智慧的投資，並對人工智慧在提高我們的營運效率和生產力方面所能提供的潛在好處感到特別興奮。

Turning now to our F&G business. F&G has profitably grown assets under management before flow reinsurance to $67.4 billion at March 31, up 16% over the prior year quarter. We are approaching the five-year anniversary of the F&G merger on June 1. Since mid-2020, F&G has successfully transformed from essentially being a monoline business to one that is well diversified by product and channel and has a profitable in-force book of business that is scaled considerably.

現在談談我們的食品和食品業務。截至 3 月 31 日，F&G 的流動再保險前管理資產已實現盈利增長至 674 億美元，較去年同期增長 16%。 6 月 1 日，F&G 合併將迎來五週年紀念。自 2020 年中期以來，F&G 已成功從單一業務企業轉型為產品和通路多元化、盈利能力強且規模可觀的業務企業。

F&G's performance has exceeded our expectations since the acquisition and proved to be a nice complement to our Title business to the recent high-interest rate environment. While rates will vary, F&G has proved that it can deliver strong results over time and is strategically positioned for long-term growth. Given our confidence in F&G's continued growth, and our desire to maintain FNF's ownership stake above 80%, our Board made the decision to participate in F&G's March common stock offering. FNF purchased 4.5 million shares of the 8 million total common shares issued.

自收購以來，F&G 的業績超出了我們的預期，並證明其在近期高利率環境下對我們產權業務的良好補充。儘管利率會有所不同，但 F&G 已證明其能夠隨著時間的推移帶來強勁的業績，並且在戰略上處於長期增長的位置。鑑於我們對 F&G 持續成長的信心，以及我們希望將 FNF 的所有權維持在 80% 以上，我們的董事會決定參與 F&G 3 月的普通股發行。 FNF 購買了已發行 800 萬股普通股中的 450 萬股。

As a result, FNF majority ownership stake in F&G is approximately 82% as of March 31. Net proceeds of the equity raise will enable F&G to take advantage of the current opportunity to further its AUM growth. I'd especially like to thank our employees for all they have done to contribute to our success over time as they drive our ability to deliver value to our clients and insurers regardless of the external environment. I am excited to build on our leadership position and continue to generate shareholder value.

因此，截至 3 月 31 日，FNF 在 F&G 的多數股權持有率約為 82%。股權增發的淨收益將使 F&G 能夠利用當前機會進一步擴大其 AUM。我特別要感謝我們的員工，感謝他們長期以來為我們的成功所做的貢獻，無論外部環境如何，他們都推動我們為客戶和保險公司創造價值。我很高興能夠鞏固我們的領導地位並繼續為股東創造價值。

With that, let me now turn the call over to Tony to review FNF's first quarter financial performance and provide additional highlights.

現在，我將把電話轉給托尼，讓他回顧一下 FNF 第一季的財務表現並提供更多亮點。

Thank you, Mike. Starting with our consolidated results, we generated $2.7 billion in total revenue in the first quarter. Excluding net recognized gains and losses, our total revenue was $3 billion as compared with $3 billion in the first quarter of 2024. The net recognized gains and losses in each period are primarily due to mark market accounting treatment of equity and preferred stock securities whether the securities were disposed of in the quarter or continue to be held in our investment portfolio.

謝謝你，麥克。從我們的綜合業績開始，我們在第一季創造了 27 億美元的總收入。不包括淨確認損益，我們的總收入為 30 億美元，而 2024 年第一季為 30 億美元。每個期間的淨確認損益主要歸因於股票和優先股證券的市場會計處理，無論這些證券是在本季度處置還是繼續持有在我們的投資組合中。

We reported first quarter net earnings of $83 million, including net recognized losses of $287 million versus net earnings of $248 million, including $275 million of net recognized gains in the first quarter of 2024. Adjusted net earnings were $213 million or $0.78 per diluted share compared with $206 million or $0.76 per share for the first quarter of 2024. The Title segment contributed $158 million, the F&G segment contributed $80 million, and the Corporate segment contributed $3 million before eliminating $28 million of dividend income from F&G in the consolidated financial statements.

我們報告第一季淨利潤為 8,300 萬美元，包括 2.87 億美元的淨確認虧損，而 2024 年第一季的淨利潤為 2.48 億美元，包括 2.75 億美元的淨確認收益。調整後的淨利潤為 2.13 億美元或每股攤薄收益 0.78 美元，而 2024 年第一季為 2.06 億美元或每股 0.76 美元。產權部門貢獻了 1.58 億美元，F&G 部門貢獻了 8,000 萬美元，企業部門貢獻了 300 萬美元，然後在合併財務報表中抵銷了來自 F&G 的 2,800 萬美元股息收入。

Turning to first quarter financial highlights specific to the Title segment. Our title segment generated $1.8 billion in total revenue in the first quarter, excluding net recognized losses of $25 million compared with $1.6 billion in the first quarter of 2024. Direct premiums increased 16% over the prior year. Agency premiums increased 15%, and escrow title related and other fees increased 8%.

轉向標題部分的具體第一季財務亮點。我們的產權保險部門在第一季創造了 18 億美元的總收入，不包括 2,500 萬美元的淨確認損失，而 2024 年第一季為 16 億美元。直接保費比上一年增長了 16%。代理保費上漲了 15%，託管產權相關費用和其他費用上漲了 8%。

Personnel costs increased 9% and other operating expenses increased 10%. All in, the Title business generated adjusted pretax title earnings of $211 million compared with $171 million for the first quarter of 2024 and an 11.7% adjusted pretax title margin for the quarter versus 10.7% in the prior year quarter.

人事成本增加了9%，其他營運費用增加了10%。整體而言，產權業務的調整後稅前產權收益為 2.11 億美元，而 2024 年第一季為 1.71 億美元，本季調整後稅前產權利潤率為 11.7%，而去年同期為 10.7%。

Our title and corporate investment portfolio totaled $4.6 billion at March 31. Interest and investment income in the Title and Corporate segments was $94 million, in line with the prior year quarter and excluding income from F&G dividend to the holding company. For the remainder of 2025, we expect to generate interest and investment income of $85 million to $90 million in each quarter, assuming two Fed funds rate cuts during the year.

截至 3 月 31 日，我們的產權和公司投資組合總額為 46 億美元。產權和公司部門的利息和投資收入為 9,400 萬美元，與去年同期持平，但不包括 F&G 向控股公司派發的股息收入。假設聯邦基金利率在 2025 年內兩次下調，我們預計 2025 年剩餘時間每季將產生 8,500 萬至 9,000 萬美元的利息和投資收入。

In addition, we expect approximately $29 million per quarter of common and preferred dividend income from F&G to the Corporate segment. Our title claims paid of $65 million were $11 million higher than our provision of $50 million for the first quarter. The carried reserve for title claim losses is approximately $60 million or 3.5% above the actuary central estimate.

此外，我們預計 F&G 公司每季將為企業部門帶來約 2,900 萬美元的普通股和優先股股息收入。我們支付的產權索賠金額為 6,500 萬美元，比第一季撥備的 5,000 萬美元高出 1,100 萬美元。所有權索賠損失的準備金約為 6000 萬美元，比精算師的中心估計高出 3.5%。

We continue to provide for title claims at 4.5% of total title premiums. Next, turning to financial highlights specific to the F&G segment. Since F&G hosted its earnings call earlier this morning and provided a thorough update, I will provide a few key highlights. F&G's AUM before flow reinsurance increased to $67.4 billion at March 31, driven by strong indexed annuity sales. This includes retained assets under management of $54.5 billion.

我們繼續以總產權保費的 4.5% 來支付產權索賠。接下來，我們來談談食品和食品飲料部門的具體財務亮點。由於 F&G 今天早上召開了收益電話會議並提供了詳細的最新消息，我將提供一些關鍵亮點。受強勁指數年金銷售的推動，截至 3 月 31 日，F&G 的流量再保險前 AUM 增至 674 億美元。其中包括 545 億美元的保留管理資產。

F&G's gross sales were $2.9 billion, down 17% compared with $3.5 billion in the first quarter of 2024, primarily due to lower MYGA sales.

F&G 的總銷售額為 29 億美元，與 2024 年第一季的 35 億美元相比下降 17%，主要原因是 MYGA 銷售額下降。

F&G continues to prioritize allocating capital to the highest returning business, specifically indexed annuity sales and pension risk transfer sales, resulting in the reduction in MYGA sales. Excluding MYGA, gross sales were up 5% over the first quarter of 2024. Net sales retained were $2.2 billion compared to $2.3 billion in the first quarter of 2024.

F&G 繼續優先將資本分配給回報率最高的業務，特別是指數年金銷售和退休金風險轉移銷售，從而導致 MYGA 銷售額減少。不包括 MYGA，總銷售額比 2024 年第一季成長了 5%。保留淨銷售額為 22 億美元，而 2024 年第一季為 23 億美元。

Adjusted net earnings for the F&G segment were $80 million in the first quarter compared with $9 million for the first quarter of 2024. As compared to the prior year quarter, F&G segment adjusted net earnings reflect margin compression due to near-term headwinds, lower owned distribution margin, higher interest expense in line with capital markets activity and lower investment income from alternative investments.

第一季食品和食品飲料部門的調整後淨收益為 8,000 萬美元，而 2024 年第一季為 900 萬美元。與去年同期相比，食品和食品飲料部門的調整後淨收益反映了利潤率的壓縮，原因是近期不利因素、自有分銷利潤率下降、隨著資本市場活動而增加的利息支出以及另類投資的投資收益減少。

These were partially offset by benefits from asset growth, higher flow reinsurance fee income, disciplined expense management and more favorable significant income items. Although F&G gave up some spread in the first quarter, much of that is believed to be short term in nature and not indicative of any longer-term challenge to the business model.

但這些影響被資產成長、更高的流量再保險費收入、嚴格的費用管理和更有利的重大收入項目帶來的好處部分抵消。儘管 F&G 在第一季放棄了一些利差，但據信其中大部分都是短期的，並不表示該商業模式將面臨任何長期挑戰。

F&G's operating performance continues to be strong and their underlying spread-based and fee-based businesses are stable with predictable earnings over time. As Mike mentioned, F&G continues to provide a complement to the Title business. In the first quarter, the F&G segment contributed 38% of FNF's adjusted net earnings, down from 46% for the first quarter of 2024.

F&G 的經營業績持續強勁，其基礎利差和費用業務穩定，且獲利可預測。正如 Mike 所提到的，F&G 繼續為 Title 業務提供補充。第一季度，F&G 部門貢獻了 FNF 調整後淨收益的 38%，低於 2024 年第一季的 46%。

From a capital and liquidity perspective, we are maintaining a strong balance sheet and ensuring a balanced capital allocation strategy. Our consolidated debt outstanding was $4.4 billion at March 31 as compared to $4.3 billion at December 31. The $73 million net increase reflects F&G's debt issuance and redemption activity in the quarter. Our consolidated debt to capitalization ratio, excluding AOCI, remains in line with our long-term target range of 20% to 30%, and we expect that our balance sheet will naturally de-lever as shareholders' equity grows.

從資本和流動性的角度來看，我們保持強勁的資產負債表並確保平衡的資本配置策略。截至 3 月 31 日，我們的合併未償還債務為 44 億美元，而 12 月 31 日為 43 億美元。 7,300 萬美元的淨增額反映了 F&G 本季的債務發行和贖回活動。我們的合併債務資本化比率（不包括 AOCI）與我們 20% 至 30% 的長期目標範圍保持一致，我們預計，隨著股東權益的增長，我們的資產負債表將自然去槓桿化。

Turning to share repurchases, following stable and sustained cash generation in 2024, FNF has resumed its share repurchases. We remained active throughout the latter part of the first quarter and into the second quarter. During the first quarter, we repurchased 390,000 shares at an average price of $63.42 per share for a total of $25 million. We view repurchases as opportunistic and actively evaluate that decision relative to our cash position, M&A opportunities and the market backdrop.

談到股票回購，繼 2024 年穩定持續的現金產生之後，FNF 已恢復股票回購。我們在第一季後半段和第二季保持活躍。第一季度，我們以平均每股 63.42 美元的價格回購了 39 萬股，總計 2,500 萬美元。我們將回購視為機會主義行為，並根據我們的現金狀況、併購機會和市場背景積極評估該決策。

From a capital allocation perspective, we entered 2025 with $786 million in cash and short-term liquid investments at the holding company. During the first quarter, the business generated cash to fund our $136 million quarterly common dividend paid, $25 million of holding company interest expense, $150 million investment in the F&G common equity raise and the $25 million in share repurchases, all while keeping pace with wage inflation, and funding the continued higher spend in risk and technology required in today's landscape. We ended the first quarter with $687 million in cash and short-term liquid investments at the holding company.

從資本配置的角度來看，到 2025 年，我們控股公司擁有 7.86 億美元的現金和短期流動投資。在第一季度，該業務產生的現金流用於支付 1.36 億美元的季度普通股股息、2500 萬美元的控股公司利息支出、1.5 億美元的 F&G 普通股投資以及 2500 萬美元的股票回購，同時跟上工資通膨的步伐，並為當今形勢下所需的持續更高的風險和技術支出提供資金。第一季結束時，控股公司擁有 6.87 億美元現金和短期流動投資。

This concludes our prepared remarks, and let me now turn the call back to our operator for questions.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束，現在請允許我將電話轉回給我們的接線生以回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) John Campbell, Stephen Inc.

（操作員指示） John Campbell，Stephen Inc.

I just want to touch on two questions on the orders. I guess, first on the April purchase orders, I think you mentioned down 3% year over year. Just curious about the week-to-week phasing kind of how that looked relative to interest rates throughout the month.

我只想談及有關命令的兩個問題。我想，首先關於四月份的採購訂單，我想您提到過同比下降 3%。我只是好奇每週的分階段變化與整個月的利率相比如何。

Yes. Good question, John. I think it got a bit better as we got near the end of the month. But I would say for most part, there wasn't a lot of variation in how the week played out. I mean how the month played out.

是的。問得好，約翰。我認為，隨著月底臨近，情況會有所改善。但我想說，在大多數情況下，本週的進展並沒有太大的變化。我指的是這個月的進展。

Okay. And that's helpful. And then apologies if I missed this, but I didn't -- I don't think I heard the commercial open order activity in April. Any kind of call-outs there?

好的。這很有幫助。如果我錯過了這一點，我很抱歉，但我沒有——我認為我沒有聽到四月份的商業開放訂單活動。那裡有什麼樣的呼叫嗎？

Sure. Yes. So April over April in commercial, total commercial was up 4%. And I don't know if we said it in the open app, notably the national opens April over April, up 15%, and local was down 3% April over April.

當然。是的。因此，4 月份商業活動與 4 月份相比，整體商業活動成長了 4%。我不知道我們是否在開放應用程式中說過這一點，特別是 4 月份全國開放量比 4 月份增長了 15%，而 4 月份本地開放量比 4 月份下降了 3%。

Okay. That's helpful. And then one more quick one, maybe for you, Tony, on the expectations for quarterly investment income. I think you had mentioned in the past 95 to 100 and now it's 85-95. What drove that expected step down?

好的。這很有幫助。然後，東尼，我再快速問你一個關於季度投資收益預期的問題。我認為您過去提到過 95 到 100，而現在是 85-95。是什麼導致了預期的降薪？

Yes. Thanks, John. 85 to 90 is my best estimate at this point. It's really driven by an expectation that we get two Fed funds cut. I know that the market may be anticipating more than two. We just assumed to later in the year. I don't remember when exactly, but maybe even the next meeting or the meeting after that. And so really driven by that, more than anything else, I think volumes are pretty stable or balance is rather pretty stable.

是的。謝謝，約翰。 85 到 90 是我目前的最佳估計。這實際上是受到兩次聯邦基金利率下調的預期所驅動。我知道市場預期的可能不只兩個。我們只是預計在今年晚些時候。我不記得具體時間，但也許是下次會議或下次會議。因此，受此影響，我認為交易量相當穩定，或者說餘額相當穩定。

Bose George, KBW.

博斯喬治，KBW。

Actually first, just on the buybacks, given what you said about buybacks being opportunistic, is there a way to think about the cadence of buybacks for the remainder of the year?

實際上，首先，就回購而言，鑑於您所說的回購是機制主義的，有沒有辦法考慮今年剩餘時間的回購節奏？

Thanks, Bose. This is Tony. I would say we typically are just on a regular occurrence when we're not blacked out. We got started late. Our year-end call was pretty late in the quarter, and so we started after that and just kind of modest daily activity, I think that's the way we'll do it.

謝謝，Bose。這是托尼。我想說，當我們沒有昏迷時，我們通常只是在正常情況下發生的事情。我們起步較晚。我們的年終電話會議在本季相當晚的時候舉行，所以我們在那之後就開始了，只是進行一些適度的日常活動，我想這就是我們的做法。

We don't guide in terms of actual expectation of shares bought back. But I think what you'll see is a regular cadence to that and probably a stronger number than what we saw in the first quarter just because we got started so late.

我們不根據回購股票的實際預期提供指引。但我認為，你會看到這種趨勢規律地發展，而且由於我們起步較晚，所以可能比第一季的成長更為強勁。

Okay. Great. That's helpful. And then just switching over to FG. The issue of the lower spreads there. Can you guys just talk about the headwinds, when that's likely to debate. Just more color there.

好的。偉大的。這很有幫助。然後切換到 FG。那裡存在較低利差的問題。當這可能會引起爭論時，你們能否談談逆風問題？那裡顏色更豐富。

Yes, sure. This is Chris. So on the FG call this morning, we actually talked about all of those pressures starting to abate. So starting with the top line, we had a very strong sales quarter in April. The spread pressures were a fair amount of cash that had built up because of some prepayments of securities. We are in the process of getting that put to work at attractive rates and spreads. So we feel good about that.

是的，當然。這是克里斯。因此，在今天上午的聯邦政府電話會議上，我們實際上討論了所有這些壓力開始減輕的情況。從營收來看，我們四月的銷售季度表現非常強勁。利差壓力是由於一些證券預付款而累積的大量現金。我們正在以有吸引力的利率和利差將其投入使用。因此我們對此感到很高興。

There was a little bit of a decline in our own distribution income. Some of that was one of our own distribution partners made an acquisition of their own, which we were supportive of. So that was a bit of a temporary depressing impact. So yes, we would expect that to improve and the trends are looking pretty good right now.

我們自己的分銷收入略有下降。其中一些是我們的分銷合作夥伴自己進行的收購，我們對此表示支持。所以這確實是一個暫時令人沮喪的影響。所以是的，我們預計情況會有所改善，而且目前的趨勢看起來相當不錯。

Mark DeVries, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的馬克‧德弗里斯。

Hoping you could provide a little more color on the decision to invest in FG capital raise and how you size that investment kind of how you expect to return to stack up to alternatives that you might have had?

希望您能提供更多關於投資 FG 融資的決定的詳細信息，以及您如何確定該投資的規模，以及您預計如何獲得回報以與您可能擁有的替代方案相媲美？

Yes, Mark, this is Tony. Maybe I'll start and others could add in. But I think it was just -- it was twofold. One, we believe in FG's growth opportunities and want to grow that asset base and grow that earnings base. And so that was part of it.

是的，馬克，這是東尼。也許我會開始，然後其他人可以加入。但我認為這只是——它是雙重的。首先，我們相信 FG 的成長機會，並希望擴大其資產基礎和獲利基礎。這就是其中的一部分。

The other part, as we've said in the past, we want to maintain an ownership stake over 80% just to preserve the optionality should we decide at some point to spin it off to our shareholders tax-free, we need to own more than 80% of F&G. And so that's kind of a combination of those two. But again, we feel -- first of all, for us, it was $150 million, so didn't really put too much of a dent in our strong cash position, and we believe that F&G can return strong returns with that equity capital.

另一方面，正如我們過去所說的那樣，我們希望保持 80% 以上的所有權，只是為了保留選擇權，如果我們決定在某個時候免稅將其分拆給我們的股東，我們需要擁有 F&G 80% 以上的股份。這就是兩者的結合。但我們再次感到——首先，對我們來說，這是 1.5 億美元，所以並沒有對我們強大的現金狀況造成太大的影響，而且我們相信 F&G 可以利用這筆股本獲得豐厚的回報。

Okay, great. A related question. I was hoping to get a better sense of kind of the opportunities in M&A. I think Mike commented on being well positioned to take advantage of opportunities created by market volatility. Are you actually seeing good opportunities? Could we expect maybe a little more M&A activity than last year, which was kind of a relatively an active year for FNF.

好的，太好了。一個相關的問題。我希望能夠更了解併購方面的機會。我認為麥克評論說，我們處於有利地位，可以利用市場波動帶來的機會。您確實看到好機會了嗎？我們是否可以預期今年的併購活動會比去年多一些，對於 FNF 來說，去年是相對活躍的一年。

Yes, Mark, it's Mike. I would think that we would have more activity as we go through this year than we did last year on the title M&A. There are definitely opportunities out there. But given the environment, it's still a matter of being expectations around value of these businesses. But I think I would definitely expect more activity as we go through the year than last year.

是的，馬克，我是麥克。我認為，我們今年在併購方面的活動會比去年更多。那裡肯定存在著機會。但考慮到當前的環境，這仍然是對這些企業價值的預期問題。但我認為，我肯定會期待我們今年的活動比去年更活躍。

Okay. Got it. I wouldn't expect for you to comment on anything specifically, but any kind of bigger transactions that are at least in contemplation here? Or are you going to be more focused on title M&A?

好的。知道了。我不指望您對任何具體的事情發表評論，但是至少這裡正在考慮任何更大的交易嗎？還是你會更關注產權併購？

Yes. I think the title M&A is definitely smaller than the bigger transactions. But I wouldn't discount a bigger transaction if something interesting showed up in any of our ancillary businesses or technology businesses, et cetera. But the title M&A would be more of what we've done for the past few years, kind of the tuck-in agent acquisitions.

是的。我認為併購的規模肯定比大型交易小。但如果我們的任何輔助業務或技術業務等出現一些有趣的事情，我不會忽視更大的交易。但標題併購更像是我們過去幾年所做的事情，類似於代理商收購。

Terry Ma, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的馬特里 (Terry Ma)。

Maybe just starting with the title margin. It was up about 100 basis points year over year, kind of any puts and takes on the margin you want to kind of highlight for the quarter. And then I appreciate there's uncertainty out there. But as we kind of think about the rest of the year across the range of kind of scenarios you kind of noted, like any way to think about how sustainable that margin is for the rest of the year -- the margin expansion.

也許只是從標題邊距開始。與去年同期相比，它上漲了約 100 個基點，這是您想要在本季度強調的利潤率的任何看跌和看漲之處。然後我意識到那裡存在不確定性。但是，當我們考慮今年剩餘時間內的各種情景時，我們會考慮利潤率在今年剩餘時間內的可持續性——利潤率的擴大。

Sure, Jerry. This is -- yes. I got it. Yes. This is Mike. So first to the quarter, we were very pleased with the margin expansion of 100 basis points over last year, and we had outperformance really across the board between direct agency commercial and the ancillary businesses all had better margins than they did last year. So that's very, very encouraging. As we think about the rest of the year, and to your point, certainly, market uncertainty, rates did go up in April, I think, about 20 basis points.

當然，傑瑞。這是——是的。我得到了它。是的。這是麥克。因此，首先就本季而言，我們對利潤率比去年同期擴大 100 個基點感到非常滿意，而且我們的直接代理商業和輔助業務的全面表現都優於去年，利潤率也更高。這非常非常令人鼓舞。當我們考慮今年剩餘時間時，正如您所說，當然是市場不確定性，我認為 4 月份利率確實上漲了約 20 個基點。

So when we think about the full year, our outlook really hasn't changed. We still believe that we -- the base case is modestly better purchase and we've seen that certainly in the first quarter. I think getting a bit more positive and bullish than in the past on commercial upside, particularly with what we're seeing on the national side.

因此，當我們考慮全年時，我們的前景確實沒有改變。我們仍然相信——基本情況是購買力略有改善，而且我們在第一季確實看到了這一點。我認為，商業前景比過去更加積極和樂觀，特別是從我們在國家方面看到的情況來看。

I mean, four consecutive quarters with double-digit growth in national opens. And as a reminder, these are our highest fee per file orders is really building a nice pipeline for us as we go through the year. And as we said, up 19% this past quarter, another 15, April over April, and we're running open orders now at a level that really has outperformed 2015 through 2020 and '23 and '24.

我的意思是，全國開放量連續四個季度實現兩位數成長。提醒一下，這些是我們每個文件訂單的最高費用，這確實為我們全年建立了良好的管道。正如我們所說，上個季度增長了 19%，4 月份環比增長了 15%，我們現在的未結訂單水準確實超過了 2015 年至 2020 年以及 2023 年和 2024 年的表現。

So I think maybe more upside in commercial. And then refi, it's going to be about rates. And it's interesting that refis were as strong as they were in April, up 41% over last year, even with rates moving up. And I feel that it shows the demand, I think, that's out there. If we get some lower rates, I think refi also can become an upside.

所以我認為商業方面可能還有更多優勢。然後再融資，這將與利率有關。有趣的是，儘管利率上升，但再融資仍與 4 月一樣強勁，比去年同期成長了 41%。我認為這體現了存在的需求。如果我們獲得較低的利率，我認為再融資也可能帶來好處。

But at the end of the day, we're well positioned to drive strong margins given our scale. As we look at the second quarter, we expect margins to expand relative to the first quarter like you would typically expect. But given the current markets drop, it's not clear if we'll see growth at the same rate as we experienced in the second quarter last year.

但最終，憑藉我們的規模，我們完全有能力實現強勁的利潤率。展望第二季度，我們預計利潤率將像您通常預期的那樣相對於第一季擴大。但鑑於目前市場下滑，我們是否會看到與去年第二季相同的成長速度尚不清楚。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. Maybe just a follow-up on commercial. It sounds like continues to be strong despite all the volatility. You gave some color on both national and local, but maybe just talk about kind of what you're seeing in the pipeline across the different kind of commercial sectors, like what's kind of the strongest versus the weakness?

知道了。好的。這很有幫助。也許只是商業的後續。儘管存在諸多波動，但聽起來仍然保持強勁。您對國家和地方的情況都做了一些說明，但也許可以談談您在不同商業領域的發展情況，例如哪些是最強的，哪些是最弱的？

Yes. Good question, Terry. It's Mike again. It's very consistent with what we've been seeing for the last couple of years. I mean it continues -- we continue to see strength in multifamily, industrial affordable housing, retail was good in the second quarter. It's -- I mean, the first quarter, rather, we had some nice transactions there. Energy kind of comes in and out. The -- and I'm sure others are talking about this in the industry, the sort of data center deals as well.

是的。問得好，特里。又是麥克。這與我們過去幾年所看到的情況非常一致。我的意思是，這種情況會持續下去——我們繼續看到多戶住宅、工業經濟適用房的強勁表現，零售業在第二季表現良好。我的意思是，第一季度，我們有一些不錯的交易。能量不斷地進出。我相信業內其他人也在談論這種數據中心交易。

With the softest still being office, although we are seeing more of a I'll say anecdotal information that, that's starting to transact. And as I said on the quarter last -- our last quarter call, we really see offices additive to everything else we already got going on as that starts to come back and -- and I don't know that we'll see that in waves in '25 or not, but I do believe office will come back, and we're starting to see anecdotal evidence of that.

最疲軟的仍然是辦公室，儘管我們看到更多的是軼事信息，但它開始進行交易。正如我在上個季度——我們上個季度的電話會議上所說的那樣，我們確實看到辦公室對我們已在進行的所有其他工作都起到了補充作用，因為它開始復蘇——我不知道我們是否會在 25 年看到這種浪潮，但我確實相信辦公室會回歸，我們也開始看到這方面的軼事證據。

(Operator Instructions) Mark Hughes, Truist Securities.

（操作員指示）Truist Securities 的 Mark Hughes。

Anything you see emerging positive or negative on the regulatory front with the changes in Washington, does that mean anything for the Title business. And anything from a rate perspective, state-by-state that's emerging. I know Texas has been up for some discussion. Just curious if you've seen anything more broadly there.

隨著華盛頓的監管變化，您認為監管方面出現的任何積極或消極變化對產權業務有何影響？從利率角度來看，各州的情況都在不斷出現。我知道德克薩斯州一直在討論這個問題。我只是好奇你是否在那裡看到了更廣泛的東西。

Sure, Mark. And it's Mike again. On the sort of the federal front, certainly, the things we were talking about last year around the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, that seems to have abated quite a bit. We haven't really seen much coming out of there. Relative to the waiver pilot, that's still out there.

當然，馬克。又是麥克。在聯邦方面，當然，我們去年談論的有關消費者金融保護局的事情，似乎已經減輕了很多。我們確實沒有看到太多東西從那裡出來。相對於豁免試點，這仍未實現。

I think it's a very de minimis program with few lenders participating as far as I know, we are talking with the federal regulators on that and sharing why we think it's -- it's not good policy, not a good idea and don't expect really much impact to our business from that program, really, if any.

我認為這是一個最低限度的計劃，據我所知，只有少數貸款機構參與，我們正在與聯邦監管機構就此進行討論，並分享我們為什麼認為它——這不是一個好的政策，不是一個好主意，並且我們不希望該計劃對我們的業務產生太大影響，如果有的話。

On the state front, really nothing happening on rates that we haven't already talked about. I think it has been reported. Texas went through their five-year process and came out with a 10% rate reduction, I believe that's been in advance as the industry has pressed against that and go through an administrative procedure. So there's really impact today of that. And then I think New Mexico came out. And I forgot what the number was very, very modest. Maybe rates were not even changed, but they changed the split and it was 1% or something.

從國家層級來看，利率方面確實沒有發生什麼我們尚未討論過的事情。我認為已經報道過了。德州經過五年的程序，最終將稅率降低了 10%，我認為這是提前的，因為業界一直在對此施壓，並通過了行政程序。所以這件事今天確實產生了影響。然後我想新墨西哥州就出現了。我忘了具體數字是多少了，這個數字非常非常小。也許利率甚至沒有改變，但他們改變了分割比例，現在是 1% 左右。

Small state, two.

小州，兩個。

So not really seeing any other impacts from the rate side at the state level.

因此，在州一級，利率方面實際上沒有看到任何其他影響。

Maybe I'll comment just on the Texas. If the 10% rate reduction had been in place last year, it would have impacted our gross revenue by about $70 million and our profits by about $14 million or $15 million before any cost actions we might have taken. So in the grand scheme of things, not a major impact to us, assuming that ultimately does go through at 10%.

也許我只會對德克薩斯州發表評論。如果去年就實施 10% 的降息，那麼在我們採取任何成本措施之前，這將對我們的總收入造成約 7000 萬美元的影響，對我們的利潤造成約 1400 萬或 1500 萬美元的影響。因此，從總體來看，假設最終實現 10% 的成長率，這對我們來說不會產生重大影響。

And when you talk about cost actions, are those things that you could contemplate what would be the offset as you think about it. So.

當您談論成本行動時，您可以考慮那些可以抵消成本的事情。所以。

Mark, it's Mike. I would just say, and you know how we manage the business. If revenues are going down, we focus on reducing our expenses and whether revenues are driven down by just overall transactional levels or they're driven down by changes to what we can charge, we have to adapt to that. And so that might mean becoming more efficient how do we take cost out or look at other things that we do to grow market share, enhance revenue, et cetera. So nothing different really than what we do every day as we manage a business that goes up and down with transactional levels.

馬克，我是麥克。我只想說，你知道我們是如何管理業務的。如果收入下降，我們就會專注於減少開支，無論收入下降是由於整體交易水準下降，還是由於收費標準的變化而下降，我們都必須適應這一點。因此，這可能意味著變得更有效率，我們如何降低成本或考慮其他可以擴大市場份額、增加收入等的事情。因此，這與我們每天管理隨著交易水平而起伏的業務時所做的事情沒有什麼不同。

Very good. And then any updates on the in-year platform, any kind of progress penetration financial impact any latest thoughts here?

非常好。那麼，關於年內平台有什麼更新嗎？任何形式的進展滲透對財務有什麼影響？有什麼最新的想法嗎？

Yes. We're just -- we're really proud of what we've accomplished. We've now got it rolled out on the entire footprint of the company, which really was a multiyear process of getting all of our operations on SoftPro, so we have one operational platform and that's been a really nice achievement for us. And 1 million people used it last year, including consumers and real estate agents and transaction coordinators and others.

是的。我們只是——我們為我們所取得的成就感到自豪。現在，我們已經將其推廣到整個公司，這確實是一個多年的過程，將我們的所有業務轉移到 SoftPro 上，因此我們擁有一個營運平台，這對我們來說是一個非常好的成就。去年有 100 萬人使用了它，其中包括消費者、房地產經紀人、交易協調員等。

And it's poised to grow with more transactional volume. As purchase transactions go up and other transactions go up, we'll have more and more users. We think combined with all the other things we're doing with technology, and we've talked about it in the past, we'll create the opportunity just to improve our margins. And as we said, we expect in like-to-like environments in the future, our margins should be better. And inhere's, we think a component of that.

隨著交易量的增加，它也將進一步成長。隨著購買交易​​和其他交易的增加，我們的用戶將會越來越多。我們認為，結合我們在技術方面所做的所有其他事情（我們過去也討論過這個問題），我們將創造機會來提高我們的利潤率。正如我們所說，我們預計在未來類似的環境中，我們的利潤率應該會更好。我們認為這就是其中的一個組成部分。

Geoffrey Dunn, Dowling & Partners.

傑弗瑞鄧恩，道林及合夥人。

Tony, last quarter, you went through the holding company cash flow math, just like you did this morning for Q1. And it seems as maybe $250 million of true excess cash that effectively went to the FG preferred investment. Will this year looking similar from a macro environment, is there any reason to say that, that true excess opportunity is any different? And if that's the case, you've already kind of $175 million into that.

東尼，上個季度，你對控股公司的現金流進行了計算，就像你今天早上對第一季所做的那樣。看起來，可能有 2.5 億美元的真正過剩現金被有效地用於了 FG 優先投資。從宏觀環境來看，今年的情況會類似嗎？有什麼理由說，真正的過剩機會有什麼不同嗎？如果是這樣的話，你已經投入了 1.75 億美元。

Ted, Jeff, I'm not sure I followed it entirely. We did invest $150 million in FG in the equity offering. I think it was $250 million in the prior year preferred offering. In terms of cash flow, and it's a little hard to predict. We know what the underwriters can upstream over the course of the year. Obviously, we get a lot of cash flow, as you've heard us say, from our non- or less-regulated hubs. And of course, F&G contributes to about $115 million or $120 million.

泰德、傑夫，我不確定我是否完全理解了。我們確實在股票發行中向 FG 投資了 1.5 億美元。我認為去年優先股的發行價是 2.5 億美元。就現金流而言，這有點難以預測。我們知道承銷商一年內可以實現哪些上游業務。顯然，正如您所說的，我們從不受監管或監管較少的樞紐獲得了大量現金流。當然，F&G 貢獻了約 1.15 億美元或 1.2 億美元。

My expectation is that we'll upstream somewhere to the tune of $900 million to $1 billion of cash flow from our subs over the course of this year, including what we did in Q3, which was about $300 million. And from that, we'll have our common dividend, which is about 550, our interest expense, which is about 75, the buyback that we've talked about and the F&G investment, which we've already made of $150 million. So yes, we should probably have -- we'll probably maintain or grow that holding company cash number of $700-ish million over the course of the year unless we have some major M&A activity.

我的預期是，今年我們能從子公司獲得 9 億至 10 億美元的現金流，其中包括第三季的約 3 億美元。由此，我們將獲得大約 550% 的普通股股息、大約 75% 的利息支出、我們談到的回購以及我們已經完成的 1.5 億美元的 F&G 投資。所以是的，我們應該——除非我們進行一些重大的併購活動，否則我們可能會在一年內維持或增加控股公司約 7 億美元的現金金額。

Okay. So just looking at that map, it seems like, well, there's an appetite for share repurchase. The resources are not necessarily overly abundant of that. It seems like a good area.

好的。因此，僅從該地圖來看，似乎存在著股票回購的需求。資源不一定過於豐富。這看起來是個不錯的區域。

I think it's more than that. Certainly, there's a possibility to do more, and the Board hasn't determined how active will be throughout the year. But yes, so we really haven't guided towards that. But again, we have $700-ish million holding company as approval.

我認為不只這些。當然，還有可能採取更多行動，而且董事會尚未確定全年的積極性。但是是的，所以我們確實沒有朝著這個方向引導。但同樣，我們獲得了價值 7 億美元左右的控股公司的批准。

And this will conclude our question-and-answer session. I will now turn the conference back over to CEO, Mike Nolan, for closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。現在，我將會議交還給執行長 Mike Nolan (Mike Nolan)，請他致閉幕詞。

Thank you. Together, the combined business delivered strong financial results through the first quarter. The Title segment is delivering industry-leading margins and remains poised for a rebound in transactional levels as we continue to invest in the business for the long term. Likewise, F&G's business is resilient and has many opportunities ahead to continue to drive asset growth and make progress on its Investor Day targets. Thanks for your time this morning. We appreciate your interest in FNF and look forward to updating you on our second quarter earnings call.

謝謝。合併後的業務在第一季取得了強勁的財務業績。隨著我們繼續對產權業務進行長期投資，產權部門的利潤率處於行業領先水平，交易水平有望反彈。同樣，F&G 的業務具有彈性，未來有很多機會繼續推動資產成長並在投資者日目標上取得進展。感謝您今天上午抽出時間。感謝您對 FNF 的關注，並期待在第二季財報電話會議上向您通報最新情況。

Thank for attending today's presentation and the conference call has concluded. You may now disconnect. Goodbye.

感謝您參加今天的演講，電話會議已經結束。您現在可以斷開連線。再見。