Expedia Group Inc (EXPE) 2021 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the Expedia Group Q4 2021 Financial Results Teleconference. My name is Emily, and I will be the operator for today's call. (Operator Instructions) For opening remarks, I will turn the call over to IR Director, Jon Charbonneau. Please go ahead.

大家好，歡迎參加 Expedia Group 2021 年第四季度財務業績電話會議。我的名字是 Emily，我將擔任今天電話的接線員。 （操作員說明）關於開場白，我將把電話轉給 IR 總監 Jon Charbonneau。請繼續。

Good afternoon, and welcome to Expedia Group's financial results conference call for the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2021. I am pleased to be joined on the call today by our CEO, Peter Kern; and our CFO, Eric Hart.

下午好，歡迎參加 Expedia Group 於 2021 年 12 月 31 日結束的第四季度財務業績電話會議。我很高興今天與我們的首席執行官 Peter Kern 一起參加電話會議；和我們的首席財務官 Eric Hart。

The following discussion, including responses to your questions, reflects management's views as of today, February 10, 2022, only. We do not undertake any obligation to update or revise this information. As always, some of the statements made on today's call are forward-looking, typically preceded by work such as we plan, we expect, we believe, we anticipate, we are optimistic or confident that or similar statements. Please refer to today's earnings release and the company's filings with the SEC for information about factors, which could cause our actual results to differ materially from these forward-looking statements.

以下討論（包括對您的問題的回答）僅反映了管理層截至今天（2022 年 2 月 10 日）的觀點。我們不承擔任何更新或修改此信息的義務。與往常一樣，今天電話會議上的一些陳述是前瞻性的，通常在我們計劃、我們預期、我們相信、我們預期、我們對此感到樂觀或有信心或類似陳述之前進行工作。有關可能導致我們的實際結果與這些前瞻性陳述大不相同的因素的信息，請參閱今天的收益發布和公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

You will find reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to the most comparable GAAP measures discussed today in our earnings release, which is posted on the company's Investor Relations website at ir.expediagroup.com. And I encourage you to frequently visit our IR website for other important content.

您將在我們的收益發布中找到非 GAAP 措施與今天討論的最具可比性的 GAAP 措施的對賬，該發布發佈在公司的投資者關係網站 ir.expediagroup.com 上。我鼓勵您經常訪問我們的 IR 網站以獲取其他重要內容。

Unless otherwise stated, any references to positive revenue, selling and marketing expense, general and administrative expense and technology and content expense exclude stock-based compensation.

除非另有說明，否則任何提及正收入、銷售和營銷費用、一般和管理費用以及技術和內容費用的內容均不包括基於股票的補償。

And with that, let me turn the call over to Peter.

有了這個，讓我把電話轉給彼得。

Thank you, Jon. Good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for joining us. Let me start off with a few broad comments about what we experienced in the fourth quarter, which I would say, even though we had to deal with a meaningful Omicron wave and a bunch of disruption in travel, and of course, that was not great for travelers worldwide, it was encouraging in many ways. And I think what we observed most notably is that the issues that involved were really issues of inconvenience. There were border shutdowns. There were planes out of service because pilots and crew were sick, things of that nature, but there was far less consumer fear over traveling. And really, it was an issue of the inconvenience of the health issues.

謝謝你，喬恩。大家下午好，感謝您加入我們。讓我首先對我們在第四季度所經歷的情況發表一些廣泛的評論，我想說的是，即使我們不得不應對有意義的 Omicron 浪潮和一系列旅行中斷，當然，這並不是很好對於世界各地的旅行者來說，這在許多方面都是令人鼓舞的。我認為我們觀察到的最值得注意的是，所涉及的問題確實是不便的問題。邊境關閉。有飛機因為飛行員和機組人員生病而停飛，這種性質的事情，但消費者對旅行的恐懼要少得多。實際上，這是一個健康問題帶來的不便。

What we believe will come from this, presuming the next waves continue in ever lightening way, is that the world has essentially gotten accustomed to the pandemic. It will enter perhaps an endemic stage. And governments and industry, et cetera, will adapt much more easily as the next waves come, and in turn, this will continue to disrupt travel less and less. And certainly, the consumers have remained willing to travel throughout. And with the return of staff to the air and the relief of border issues, we are seeing a solid return to travel. Eric will take us through the numbers and the trends, but suffice it to say that we are pleased to see that bookings have strongly rebounded since opening, anywhere the Omicron has tapped out. And certainly, we're seeing that broadly across our biggest markets.

我們認為，假設下一波浪潮繼續以越來越輕的方式繼續下去，我們相信世界基本上已經習慣了這種流行病。它可能會進入一個流行階段。隨著下一波浪潮的到來，政府和行業等將更容易適應，反過來，這將繼續越來越少地干擾旅行。當然，消費者仍然願意全程旅行。隨著工作人員的複飛和邊境問題的緩解，我們看到了旅行的穩固回歸。 Eric 將帶我們了解數字和趨勢，但足以說明，我們很高興看到 Omicron 開發的任何地方的預訂量自開業以來都強勁反彈。當然，我們在我們最大的市場中廣泛看到了這一點。

I've talked before about mix effects, and I won't belabor those, except to say it continues to be real. Certain areas are doing better than other areas, more challenged than other parts; geos -- certain geos are more difficult than others. But in general, we feel good that big cities have not recovered as much yet, and that is a good guide for us. International travel is still yet to return as strongly. That is another good guide for us. So we feel like directionally, the things that are -- will be coming back generally benefit us and we're looking forward to the days of those returns.

我之前已經談到過混合效果，我不會對它們進行詳細說明，只是說它仍然是真實的。某些領域比其他領域做得更好，比其他領域更具挑戰性； geos - 某些 geos 比其他的更難。但總的來說，我們覺得大城市還沒有恢復得那麼好，這對我們來說是一個很好的指導。國際旅行仍然沒有那麼強勁地回歸。這對我們來說是另一個很好的指南。因此，我們覺得有方向性，那些正在回歸的東西通常會讓我們受益，我們期待著這些回歸的日子。

With that said, I'm not really prone to doing retrospectives, but we are starting to focus much more on the future of our business and what we're going to deliver instead of how we manage COVID day-to-day. And I thought it would be useful perhaps to just reflect on where we've been and where we've taken the company over the last couple of years since we entered COVID.

話雖如此，我並不是真的傾向於進行回顧，但我們開始更多地關注我們業務的未來以及我們將要交付的內容，而不是我們如何管理 COVID 的日常工作。而且我認為，回顧一下自從我們進入 COVID 以來的過去幾年中，我們在哪里以及我們將公司帶到哪裡可能會很有用。

So first of all, the thing you've all observed and clearly have liked is that we've been able to simplify and make the business more efficient. And it's easy to observe and it's important -- obviously, there are more important things to our long-term future, but I'll spend a minute on simplification.

因此，首先，你們都觀察到並且顯然喜歡的是我們已經能夠簡化業務並使業務更有效率。這很容易觀察，而且很重要——顯然，對於我們的長期未來還有更重要的事情，但我會花一點時間來簡化一下。

We've been able to use our push for new technology solutions, our push to reorganize the company in a more single-goal fashion. We've optimized third-party spending and tools and many things, and we've become a much more efficient enterprise, in fact, today. And I should mention, as you know, we've also shut down or sold off certain businesses that we believed were noncore.

我們已經能夠利用我們對新技術解決方案的推動，我們以更加單一目標的方式重組公司的推動。我們已經優化了第三方支出和工具以及許多東西，事實上，今天我們已經成為一個更有效率的企業。我應該提一下，如你所知，我們還關閉或出售了某些我們認為是非核心的業務。

As a result of that, we're running the company now with roughly 10,000 fewer people than we were at the end of 2019, which is a great credit to the people who are here, who have driven a ton of hard work towards that goal of really running the company in a smarter, more efficient, better way.

因此，我們現在運營公司的人數比 2019 年底減少了大約 10,000 人，這對在這裡的人們來說是一個巨大的榮譽，他們為實現這一目標付出了巨大的努力真正以更智能、更高效、更好的方式運營公司。

So that's been the big push there. And I would say that as we still face challenges of hiring people. We're like all the tech companies, but we have had a great influx of terrific talent. I think that momentum is increasing. And that mix with the great talent we have has really created -- put us in a great position as we move forward. And as we start to move to really being focused on delivery of new tech, new experiences and improving the traveler experience as our core fundamental goal.

所以這是那裡的一大推動力。我會這麼說，因為我們仍然面臨招聘人員的挑戰。我們就像所有的科技公司一樣，但我們有大量優秀人才湧入。我認為這種勢頭正在增加。再加上我們真正創造的優秀人才——讓我們在前進的過程中處於有利位置。隨著我們開始真正專注於提供新技術、新體驗和改善旅行者體驗，這是我們的核心基本目標。

But as I say, efficiency is not the story here. Efficiency is a great thing we've been able to achieve, but the real story of our future is about what we're doing to drive the business forward.

但正如我所說，效率不是這裡的故事。效率是我們能夠實現的一件偉大的事情，但我們未來的真實故事是關於我們正在做些什麼來推動業務向前發展。

So just to break that into a few parts. On the demand front, as you know, we've combined our multiple brands working in silos into one unified house of brands with a singular focus on driving travelers to the right product at the right time. This strategy is built on superior creative, making the brands make sense together, buying together in an efficient way and, of course, using performance marketing along with brand to really drive a more efficient way of bringing travelers into our universe.

所以只是把它分成幾個部分。如您所知，在需求方面，我們將多個各自為政的品牌合併為一個統一的品牌屋，專注於在正確的時間將旅行者帶到正確的產品。這種策略建立在卓越的創意基礎上，讓品牌一起有意義，以有效的方式一起購買，當然，使用效果營銷和品牌來真正推動更有效的方式將旅行者帶入我們的世界。

We believe we are well on our way to that journey. Hope you enjoy our Super Bowl ads in a few days. I think they're terrific. But it is a unified strategy that's about really delivering end-to-end, a great demand generation strategy that is efficient and we believe can drive better outcomes in the future for us.

我們相信我們在通往這一旅程的道路上進展順利。希望您在幾天后喜歡我們的超級碗廣告。我覺得他們很棒。但這是一個統一的戰略，真正提供端到端的服務，是一個高效的巨大需求生成戰略，我們相信可以在未來為我們帶來更好的結果。

We also believe, as you know, that loyalty will play an important role, and we are bringing our loyalty programs together. And that will begin to take shape over the course of the year and I think, pay dividends for years and years to come, and we're excited about that.

如您所知，我們還相信忠誠度將發揮重要作用，我們正在整合我們的忠誠度計劃。這將在一年中開始形成，我認為，為未來幾年支付紅利，我們對此感到興奮。

On the technical front, now this has really been the heart and soul of what we've been working on, which is getting to a singular platform so that we can drive a velocity of innovation for travelers and for our partners and really take travel to the next iteration for the online app-based travel business.

在技術方面，現在這確實是我們一直在努力的核心和靈魂，它正在建立一個單一的平台，以便我們可以為旅行者和我們的合作夥伴推動創新速度，並真正將旅行帶到基於應用程序的在線旅遊業務的下一次迭代。

We've been on this journey for a while. We've talked about how we're moving multiple stacks into a single stack. That's more than just like efficiency story or anything else. It's really about building it at a set of micro services with APIs that can be externalized and can more easily be used internally to drive these great outcomes for our travelers and our partners. And when I say travelers, I really mean all travelers because for the first time as we build this out, we will be able to create innovation in our stack that impacts all our travelers, our B2C travelers, our B2B travelers all in the same moment. So when we make an improvement in the checkout path or we make an improvement in the app, all those benefits will inure to the traveler wherever they come from, and it will be able to drive real impact instead of the siloed way we used to have to work our way through it.

我們在這段旅程中已經有一段時間了。我們已經討論瞭如何將多個堆棧移動到一個堆棧中。這不僅僅是效率故事或其他任何事情。它實際上是在一組微服務中構建它，這些微服務可以外部化，並且可以更容易地在內部使用，從而為我們的旅行者和我們的合作夥伴帶來這些偉大的成果。當我說旅行者時，我真的是指所有旅行者，因為當我們第一次構建這個時，我們將能夠在我們的堆棧中創造創新，同時影響我們所有的旅行者，我們的 B2C 旅行者，我們的 B2B 旅行者.因此，當我們改進結帳路徑或改進應用程序時，所有這些好處都將適用於旅行者，無論他們來自哪裡，它將能夠產生真正的影響，而不是我們過去的孤立方式努力克服它。

So I think it's a really important step for both how we run our business, how much innovation and velocity we can bring to the travelers and partner experience, and frankly, just generally, how we innovate and drive the entire industry forward.

因此，我認為這對於我們如何經營業務、我們可以為旅行者和合作夥伴體驗帶來多少創新和速度，以及坦率地說，一般來說，對於我們如何創新和推動整個行業向前發展都是非常重要的一步。

We're really excited about what's coming. It's a big year of delivery for us, but there are amazing things coming, we think, for the traveler, from the discovery elements to the service elements and everything in between. And again, that will inure to the benefit of all travelers in our ecosystem.

我們對即將發生的事情感到非常興奮。對於我們來說，這是交付的重要一年，但我們認為，對於旅行者來說，從發現元素到服務元素以及介於兩者之間的一切，都會有令人驚奇的事情發生。再一次，這將使我們生態系統中的所有旅行者受益。

And finally, on the B2B side, which is really now an amalgamation of our B2B partners who drive demand and our partners who bring us supply, and more and more, we see that as one universe. We combined those teams into one group that essentially can have a 360 relationship with any partner, and therefore, any partner can benefit not only from selling into our platform, but also taking services out of our platform. And we think that approach is going to be really powerful. We've kept very close to our partners over the pandemic. Obviously, we've kind of shared challenges and opportunities. And we've renewed a lot of deals across lodging, air and car. And most of these deals have come with expanded capabilities where we've delivered more for our partners and we believe help them drive their own businesses to better outcomes.

最後，在 B2B 方面，這實際上是我們推動需求的 B2B 合作夥伴和為我們帶來供應的合作夥伴的合併，我們越來越多地將其視為一個宇宙。我們將這些團隊合併為一個基本上可以與任何合作夥伴建立 360 度關係的團隊，因此，任何合作夥伴不僅可以從向我們的平台銷售產品中受益，還可以從我們的平台中獲取服務。我們認為這種方法將非常強大。在大流行期間，我們一直與我們的合作夥伴保持密切聯繫。顯然，我們已經分享了挑戰和機遇。我們已經更新了很多住宿、機票和汽車的交易。這些交易中的大多數都具有擴展的功能，我們為合作夥伴提供了更多的服務，我們相信可以幫助他們推動自己的業務取得更好的成果。

We're excited about this partnership approach. It's no longer just about supply or just about can we drive them in, it's really about can we make our partners' businesses better, and we're keenly focused on that.

我們對這種合作方式感到興奮。這不再只是關於供應或我們能否推動他們進入，而是我們能否讓合作夥伴的業務變得更好，我們非常關注這一點。

So to close, I'll just say we never count COVID out. We've dealt with a fair number of body blows over the last couple of years, but the industry has proven and resilient. I think demand has proven even more resilient, and we expect a significant rebound. And while we're excited to ride the rebound, the important thing for us is really delivery. We have to deliver on all the promises we've made about how we're going to improve the product, traveler experience and how we're going to continue to run an efficient and effective business.

所以最後，我只想說我們永遠不會把COVID排除在外。在過去的幾年中，我們已經處理了相當多的身體打擊，但該行業已經證明並且具有彈性。我認為需求已被證明更具彈性，我們預計會出現顯著反彈。雖然我們很高興能夠反彈，但對我們來說重要的是真正的交付。我們必須兌現我們所做的所有承諾，即我們將如何改進產品、旅客體驗以及我們將如何繼續運營高效和有效的業務。

And I would just say, ultimately, we believe in the reigniting of travel. We think we're going to play a central role in it. We're not content to just sit back and ride it. We want to be important in driving the future of the industry. And we believe we can bring that not only to travelers, not only to our own business, but to the entire travel ecosystem, and that is what we will be focused on this year.

我只想說，最終，我們相信旅行的重新點燃。我們認為我們將在其中發揮核心作用。我們不滿足於坐下來騎它。我們希望在推動行業未來方面發揮重要作用。我們相信，我們不僅可以將其帶給旅行者，不僅可以帶給我們自己的業務，還可以帶給整個旅游生態系統，這也是我們今年將重點關注的內容。

And with that, I will turn it over to Eric.

有了這個，我會把它交給埃里克。

Thanks, Peter, and thanks, everyone, for joining the call. I too am optimistic around the travel recovery this year. And along with Peter, I'm excited to see us deliver more for travelers and partners.

謝謝彼得，謝謝大家加入電話會議。我也對今年的旅遊復甦持樂觀態度。與 Peter 一起，我很高興看到我們為旅行者和合作夥伴提供更多服務。

With that, I'd like to start by providing an update on booking trends. While we witnessed a notable pullback due to Omicron in December, which continued into January, I'm encouraged by the improvement we have seen in recent weeks.

有了這個，我想首先提供有關預訂趨勢的更新。雖然我們在 12 月目睹了由於 Omicron 導致的顯著回調，並持續到 1 月，但我對最近幾週看到的改善感到鼓舞。

Overall, in the fourth quarter, total gross bookings for all products, net of cancels, were down 25% versus Q4 of 2019, a slight sequential improvement versus third quarter. And when compared to 2019, we have continued to see a mix shift towards lodging, and more specifically Vrbo versus air. Given the continued volatility of the recovery due to Omicron, again this quarter, we are providing monthly detail on our total lodging bookings net of cancels, which includes hotel and Vrbo. For October, it was down 4% versus 2019. It was down 5% in November, 27% down in December, down 11% in January, with trends improving throughout January and with us up versus 2019 in the most recent weeks.

總體而言，在第四季度，所有產品的總預訂量（扣除取消）與 2019 年第四季度相比下降了 25%，與第三季度相比略有環比改善。與 2019 年相比，我們繼續看到向住宿的轉變，更具體地說，是 Vrbo 與空氣。鑑於由於 Omicron 導致的複蘇持續波動，本季度我們再次提供關於我們的住宿預訂總額（包括酒店和 Vrbo）的月度詳細信息，其中包括酒店和 Vrbo。 10 月份與 2019 年相比下降了 4%。11 月份下降了 5%，12 月份下降了 27%，1 月份下降了 11%，整個 1 月份的趨勢都在改善，最近幾週我們與 2019 年相比有所上升。

From a geography perspective, this improvement has been driven by the U.S., followed by EMEA, while APAC and LatAm are lagging.

從地理角度來看，這種改善是由美國推動的，其次是歐洲、中東和非洲，而亞太地區和拉美則落後。

Now on to the P&L. Total revenue was down 17% versus Q4 2019, roughly the same level of decline we saw last quarter. As a reminder, we closed the Egencia deal on November 1. In the quarter, Egencia contributed $29 million in revenue. Note this does not include revenue tied to the 10-year lodging supply agreement our EPS business entered into with GBT.

現在進入損益表。與 2019 年第四季度相比，總收入下降了 17%，與我們上個季度看到的下降水平大致相同。提醒一下，我們於 11 月 1 日完成了與易信達的交易。在本季度，易信達貢獻了 2900 萬美元的收入。請注意，這不包括與我們的 EPS 業務與 GBT 簽訂的 10 年住宿供應協議相關的收入。

Revenue margin for the fourth quarter was 13%, down from 16% last quarter, largely due to typical seasonality. On sales and marketing, direct spend in Q4 was roughly $875 million, down 12% versus Q4 2019 levels compared to 19% decline last quarter. As you know, Q1 is a seasonal low point for EBITDA given the timing disconnect between higher marketing expense ahead of summer travel and lower stayed room nights in Q1. And this timing impact could be further amplified this year due to lower sales in Q1 due to Omicron and our spending into the recovery based on the recent improvements in trends we're observing.

第四季度的收入利潤率為 13%，低於上季度的 16%，主要是由於典型的季節性因素。在銷售和營銷方面，第四季度的直接支出約為 8.75 億美元，與 2019 年第四季度的水平相比下降了 12%，而上一季度則下降了 19%。如您所知，第一季度是 EBITDA 的季節性低點，因為夏季旅行前較高的營銷費用與第一季度較低的住宿間夜之間存在時間脫節。由於 Omicron 導致第一季度的銷售額下降，以及我們根據我們觀察到的最近趨勢的改善而在復蘇中的支出，這種時間影響今年可能會進一步放大。

Moving on, overhead costs, excluding Egencia, in both periods was up $23 million versus Q3 2021, primarily driven by the lower ability to capitalize labor in the fourth quarter. Looking ahead to this year, as we compete for great talent, we anticipate higher-than-normal annual compensation increases, which take effect on April 1.

接下來，不包括易信達的間接費用與 2021 年第三季度相比增加了 2300 萬美元，主要是由於第四季度勞動力資本化能力下降。展望今年，在我們爭奪優秀人才的過程中，我們預計年度薪酬增幅將高於正常水平，將於 4 月 1 日生效。

In total, adjusted EBITDA was $479 million, up $1 million versus 2019 levels despite revenue down 17%. This marked the third consecutive quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA and our highest Q4 EBITDA ever. And I believe the fourth quarter performance further illustrates how we are running a much more efficient business versus prior to the pandemic.

儘管收入下降了 17%，但調整後的 EBITDA 總計為 4.79 億美元，比 2019 年的水平增加了 100 萬美元。這標誌著連續第三個季度調整後的 EBITDA 為正，也是我們有史以來最高的第四季度 EBITDA。而且我相信第四季度的表現進一步說明了我們如何在大流行之前運營更有效率的業務。

On to free cash flow, which totaled roughly $142 million in Q4 on a reported basis. Excluding the change in restricted cash, which is primarily driven by the change in Vrbo's deferred merchant bookings, free cash flow was $35 million.

自由現金流，據報導，第四季度總計約為 1.42 億美元。不包括主要受 Vrbo 延期商戶預訂變化驅動的受限現金變化，自由現金流為 3500 萬美元。

Now shifting to the balance sheet. In 2021, our debt refinancing yielded approximately $80 million in annual interest expense savings, and paying off the full $1.2 billion in preferred stock last year saves us approximately $115 million in annual dividend payments -- payouts. More recently, we informed the holders of our 650 million eurobond last week of our intention to pay off the notes at the beginning of March, which is 3 months ahead of their maturity date. This allows us to save approximately $5 million in net interest expense this year or $19 million annually while also improving our leverage ratios. Overall, we are pleased to have maintained our investment-grade rating through the pandemic and remain committed to deleveraging while also looking for ways to further reduce our cost of capital.

現在轉向資產負債表。 2021 年，我們的債務再融資每年節省了大約 8000 萬美元的利息費用，去年還清了全部 12 億美元的優先股，為我們節省了大約 1.15 億美元的年度股息支付。最近，我們上週通知了我們 6.5 億歐元債券的持有人，我們打算在 3 月初償還這些票據，比到期日提前 3 個月。這使我們能夠在今年節省大約 500 萬美元的淨利息支出或每年 1900 萬美元，同時還提高了我們的槓桿率。總體而言，我們很高興在大流行期間保持了投資級評級，並繼續致力於去槓桿化，同時也在尋找進一步降低資本成本的方法。

In closing, despite the continued impact of pandemic in 2021 and most recently from Omicron, I'm encouraged by the continued progress made last year to reshape the company to further improve our financial position going forward. As mentioned, I am optimistic about the travel recovery this year and excited to see how this year unfolds for the company.

最後，儘管大流行在 2021 年以及最近來自 Omicron 的影響持續存在，但我對去年在重塑公司以進一步改善我們未來的財務狀況方面取得的持續進展感到鼓舞。如前所述，我對今年的旅行複蘇持樂觀態度，並很高興看到公司今年將如何發展。

With that, Emily, we are ready for our first question.

有了這個，艾米麗，我們準備好回答第一個問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question today comes from the line of Kevin Kopelman from Cowen and Company.

（操作員說明）我們今天的第一個問題來自 Cowen and Company 的 Kevin Kopelman。

First, I want to ask about the loyalty program. Can you give us more details on when you expect to roll out the consolidated loyalty program, how that might change? And if you can give us a sense of how important your loyalty programs are today and maybe where they could go.

首先，我想問一下忠誠度計劃。您能否詳細說明您預計何時推出合併的忠誠度計劃，這可能會發生什麼變化？如果您可以讓我們了解您的忠誠度計劃在今天的重要性，以及它們的發展方向。

Yes. Thanks, Kevin. Well, I'll say a couple of things. First, this is an ongoing effort. As recently this quarter, we just revamped our Expedia loyalty program to create a construct that we think is better for travelers and kind of directionally in where we're headed more broadly for a loyalty program. But there is a lot of migration going on. We're migrating the old stack, as I talked about. We're migrating the brand front ends onto one set of rails. And we are rebuilding our loyalty platform to accommodate one broad loyalty construct that can serve all the different brands.

是的。謝謝，凱文。好吧，我會說幾件事。首先，這是一項持續的努力。就在本季度最近，我們剛剛改進了我們的 Expedia 忠誠度計劃，以創建一個我們認為更適合旅行者的結構，並且在我們更廣泛地朝著忠誠度計劃的方向發展。但是有很多遷移正在進行。正如我所說，我們正在遷移舊堆棧。我們正在將品牌前端遷移到一組導軌上。我們正在重建我們的忠誠度平台，以適應一種可以服務於所有不同品牌的廣泛忠誠度結構。

And so the big difference that's coming is really that the loyalty program will cover all our brands, all our products, and you'll be able to earn and burn across all of them, which is a great innovation. All the research shows that it's the most important thing to customers is having the breadth of products. And so we think it's going to be a great win for them. All the details are still being worked out on exactly how that policy and planning will work, although I think the Expedia construct is more or less in line with where we're headed in terms of how points work, et cetera.

因此，即將到來的最大區別在於，忠誠度計劃將涵蓋我們所有的品牌、我們的所有產品，您將能夠在所有這些產品中賺錢和燃燒，這是一項了不起的創新。所有的研究都表明，對客戶來說最重要的是擁有產品的廣度。所以我們認為這對他們來說將是一場偉大的勝利。關於該政策和計劃將如何運作的所有細節仍在製定中，儘管我認為 Expedia 的結構或多或少與我們在積分如何運作等方面的發展方向一致。

But it will take the better part of this year to get all those pieces lined up. And of course, a rollout of the loyalty program, including converting loyalty people over from one to another and adding it to front ends that haven't had it in all of those pieces, it's not just like you flip one switch. It's a switch after switch after switch.

但今年的大部分時間都需要把所有這些部分都排好。當然，忠誠度計劃的推出，包括將忠誠度人員從一個轉換到另一個，並將其添加到所有這些部分都沒有的前端，這不僅僅是你按下一個開關。這是一個又一個的開關。

So I think it will take us the better part of this year to be -- really have the product where we want it and be starting to convert everybody over to it. But -- so I think next year will be the big impact year of the whole stickiness and totality of loyalty. But I think it's a big year for us as we build into it. And hopefully, we'll be moving some of the program over that in the course of this year.

所以我認為我們將在今年的大部分時間裡——真正擁有我們想要的產品，並開始讓每個人都接受它。但是 - 所以我認為明年將是整個粘性和忠誠度的重大影響年。但我認為這對我們來說是重要的一年，因為我們正在努力。希望我們會在今年的過程中將一些程序移到該程序上。

And if I could just ask about the latest trends. You noted that lodging is now up in the last week versus 2019. Can you talk about how that might play out given cities haven't fully come back yet and international travel is still certainly not fully back given the restrictions are not up yet?

如果我能問一下最新的趨勢。您指出，與 2019 年相比，上週的住宿現在有所上漲。您能否談談考慮到城市尚未完全恢復，並且鑑於限制尚未解除，國際旅行肯定還沒有完全恢復，這可能會如何發展？

Yes, sure. Well, I think, look, there's a lot of benefit in that for us in the sense that historically, big cities and international have been an area of strength for us relative to some of what we've seen during COVID like domestic travel into tertiary markets, et cetera, which have been historically weak.

是的，當然。好吧，我認為，看，這對我們有很多好處，因為從歷史上看，大城市和國際一直是我們的優勢領域，相對於我們在 COVID 期間看到的一些情況，比如國內旅行到高等教育歷史上一直疲軟的市場等等。

On the other hand, we benefited greatly. Vrbo has been super strong. It's benefited from the leisure travel and the longer-term travel of vacation around, some people liking that during COVID where they can isolate with their families, et cetera. So it's a little tricky to predict. But I would say broadly, the stuff that's left to come in many ways favors our strongest areas. So I think that's positive. But the mixes have been hard to predict over time. And so I don't want to get too -- get too much into prognosticating, but I think we've got some good runway ahead in where the puck is going. Mixed 2 metaphors there. But -- and we feel good about that. You never know what the back-end unintended consequences are, but I think being positive now and with everything that's left to come is making us feel pretty good.

另一方面，我們受益匪淺。 Vrbo 一直非常強大。它受益於休閒旅行和假期的長期旅行，有些人喜歡在 COVID 期間可以與家人隔離，等等。所以預測起來有點棘手。但我會廣泛地說，在很多方面留下的東西有利於我們最強大的領域。所以我認為這是積極的。但隨著時間的推移，這些混合很難預測。所以我不想過多地預測，但我認為我們在冰球的前進方向上有一些很好的跑道。混合了2個隱喻。但是——我們對此感覺很好。你永遠不知道後端的意外後果是什麼，但我認為現在保持積極態度以及即將發生的一切讓我們感覺很好。

Our next question today comes from the line of Naved Khan from Truist Securities.

我們今天的下一個問題來自 Truist Securities 的 Naved Khan。

Great. Two questions, please. Maybe just one on the comeback in travel. As it continues to build in '22, how do you see the mix of direct versus paid traffic coming to your platform? Can you maybe just touch on the opportunities between the different levers that you have to pull between CRM versus branding versus performance channels?

偉大的。請教兩個問題。也許只是一個在旅行中捲土重來的人。隨著它在 22 年繼續構建，您如何看待進入您平台的直接流量和付費流量的組合？您能否談談您必須在 CRM、品牌和績效渠道之間拉動的不同槓桿之間的機會？

And then maybe just another one on capital allocation. So you continue to deleverage and also you have kind of gotten preferred out. How do you kind of see the scope for M&A opportunities here and maybe other use of capital, like share buyback? Just maybe talk about that a little bit.

然後也許只是另一個關於資本配置的問題。所以你繼續去槓桿化，你也有點被淘汰了。您如何看待這裡的併購機會以及其他資本用途，例如股票回購？只是也許談論一點。

Sure. I'll go first and be able to come back in travel. I think -- I'm glad you mentioned CRM. We have so much opportunity to improve our direct relationship with consumers. We've historically fished out of the big ponds of Google and Meta, et cetera, and brought customers in, and candidly, not done a good enough job in retaining those customers and making it sticky and making sure the experience is good.

當然。我會先去，然後才能回來旅行。我想——我很高興你提到了 CRM。我們有很多機會改善與消費者的直接關係。歷史上，我們從 Google 和 Meta 等的大池塘中撈出，並吸引了客戶，坦率地說，在留住這些客戶、使其具有粘性並確保體驗良好方面做得不夠好。

We are keenly focused on bringing travelers in now, making sure they enjoy all the benefits of what we have to provide, member pricing, loyalty, et cetera, and that they get a better app experience, better CRM which we are rebuilding like everything else. And we really focus on retaining them and keep them coming back as often as possible directly. It doesn't mean we don't expect to use performance marketing in all the usual channels, but we want to be able to derive much more long-term value from those customers we acquire and then in turn keep.

我們現在非常專注於吸引旅行者，確保他們享受我們必須提供的所有好處、會員定價、忠誠度等，並確保他們獲得更好的應用程序體驗、更好的 CRM，我們正在像其他一切一樣重建這些.我們真正專注於留住他們，並讓他們盡可能多地直接回來。這並不意味著我們不希望在所有常用渠道中使用績效營銷，但我們希望能夠從我們獲得併留住的客戶那裡獲得更多的長期價值。

So we hope very greatly that the denominator will be expanding. We'll just be bringing in more travelers, and that more and more of them, we will be able to create direct relationships where they are coming back. They recognize the benefits we give them in price and service, discovery and everything else. Obviously, there's more to come there because as the products improve and the experience improves, it all gets easier and that flywheel presumably turns faster. But that is our focus, and that is what we hope to derive from this. We're not projecting what percentage will be what, but it is very closely tied to all the work we are doing to drive the traveler experience.

所以我們非常希望分母會擴大。我們只會帶來更多的旅行者，而且越來越多的旅行者，我們將能夠在他們回來的地方建立直接的關係。他們認識到我們在價格和服務、發現和其他方面給他們帶來的好處。顯然，還有更多的事情要做，因為隨著產品的改進和體驗的改進，一切都會變得更容易，而且飛輪可能會轉得更快。但這是我們的重點，也是我們希望從中得到的。我們沒有預測百分比是多少，但它與我們為推動旅行者體驗所做的所有工作密切相關。

Great. And I'll take the second part of the question around capital allocation. I know we've talked about it in previous quarters and I think our message remains the same. We are keenly focused on cleaning up our balance sheet, if you will, given the disruption that we've experienced over the last couple of years. That includes delevering the business. We've talked about the preferreds that we paid off. We've talked about the Eurobond we're paying off, and we're going to continue down the path of delevering which, of course, can take the form of growth in the underlying EBITDA, but also -- and pay down debt as appropriate.

偉大的。我將討論關於資本分配的問題的第二部分。我知道我們在前幾個季度已經討論過它，我認為我們的信息保持不變。鑑於我們在過去幾年中經歷的混亂，我們非常專注於清理我們的資產負債表。這包括去槓桿化業務。我們已經討論了我們得到回報的偏好。我們已經討論了我們正在償還的歐洲債券，我們將繼續走去槓桿化的道路，當然，這可以採取基本 EBITDA 增長的形式，但也 - 償還債務合適的。

We want to lower the cost of capital as well. In my prepared remarks, I talked about a couple of areas where we are quite significantly reduced the cash flow required to service, whether it's the preferreds or different debt instruments. We're keenly focused on maintaining investment grade and quite proud that we've been able to do that over the last couple of years given the amount of disruption that we've had. And then a slight other lens on that as well is, if Peter's talking about the growth opportunities ahead of us and the opportunity for the company and want to make sure that we are enabling that as best we can so that we can go as fast as we can in achieving that vision.

我們也想降低資本成本。在我準備好的評論中，我談到了我們顯著減少了服務所需的現金流量的幾個領域，無論是優先股還是不同的債務工具。我們非常專注於保持投資等級，並且非常自豪我們能夠在過去幾年中做到這一點，因為我們已經經歷了很多中斷。然後還有一個小鏡頭，如果彼得談到我們面前的增長機會和公司的機會，並希望確保我們盡我們所能做到這一點，以便我們能夠以最快的速度前進我們可以實現這一願景。

Specifically on 2 components that you mentioned on M&A. We're always open for business. Even during the heart of COVID, we were open for -- to business to a certain extent, but obviously, that wasn't necessarily the right opportunity or the right time as things coming up, but we are looking at different opportunities opportunistically and a few themes that we're thinking about.

特別是您在併購中提到的兩個組件。我們一直營業。即使在 COVID 的核心時期，我們在一定程度上也對業務持開放態度，但顯然，這不一定是正確的機會或正確的時間，但我們正在尋找不同的機會機會和我們正在考慮的幾個主題。

And then on buybacks, I think you can look at our long history. It's something that we have done regularly and consistently. I fully suspect that we will get back to that at the right time and something that we will think about over the coming months. But again, we're going to observe COVID. We're going to clean up the balance sheet, if you will, and all the components that I've talked about, that's where we're focused right now.

然後在回購方面，我想你可以看看我們悠久的歷史。這是我們經常和一貫地做的事情。我完全懷疑我們會在正確的時間回到這個問題上，並且我們會在接下來的幾個月裡考慮一些事情。但同樣，我們將觀察 COVID。如果你願意的話，我們將清理資產負債表，以及我談到的所有組成部分，這就是我們現在關注的地方。

Yes. And I would just add just to close that one out that on the M&A front, we're much more focused. It has to fit with our long-term strategy, our platform strategy. It has to integrate. We're not going to be just buying things because they're good deals, we're going to buy things that fit our long-term strategy to drive what we're trying to drive if we buy it.

是的。我只想補充一下，在併購方面，我們更加專注。它必須符合我們的長期戰略，我們的平台戰略。它必須整合。我們不會僅僅因為它們是很好的交易而購買東西，我們將購買符合我們長期戰略的東西，以推動我們在購買時想要推動的東西。

Our next question today comes from Eric Sheridan from Goldman Sachs.

我們今天的下一個問題來自高盛的 Eric Sheridan。

Maybe just teasing out more on the capital allocation front, but bringing it back to margins. Peter, Eric, can you help frame for us -- I know you've laid out before that you've exited sort of the efficiency program that you laid out from a couple of years ago. And there's obviously investments against your ambition you feel you need to make in '22 and '23 to capture some of that growth.

也許只是在資本配置方面進行了更多的梳理，但將其帶回了利潤率。彼得，埃里克，你能為我們提供幫助嗎？我知道你之前已經制定過，你已經退出了幾年前製定的效率計劃。顯然，您認為需要在 22 年和 23 年進行一些違背您雄心壯志的投資，以獲取部分增長。

But how should investors think about elements of where there is leverage driven by volume that can flow through the model over the next 12 to 24 months versus areas where you want to take incremental margin or incremental leverage and invest it back because you're playing sort of the long game over the next 3 to 5 years against the bigger travel opportunity? Just some of the variables that could flex margin leverage one way or another in the next 24 months.

但是，投資者應該如何考慮在未來 12 到 24 個月內可以通過模型流動的交易量驅動的槓桿因素與您希望獲得增量保證金或增量槓桿並將其投資回來的元素，因為您正在玩排序未來 3 到 5 年與更大的旅行機會的長期博弈？在接下來的 24 個月中，可能會以一種或另一種方式調整保證金槓桿的一些變量。

Sure. Thanks, Eric, and I hope you're well as well. We -- the way I think you should think about it is this, we have -- as I mentioned, there's a lot of work still going on in building the platform to getting the platform right. When those things are right, they will drive further efficiencies.

當然。謝謝，埃里克，我希望你也很好。我們——我認為你應該考慮的方式是這樣的，我們有——正如我所提到的，在構建平台以使平台正確方面仍有很多工作要做。當這些事情正確時，它們將進一步提高效率。

So when you say we've exited the program, it wasn't like a program with a goal that we ended and said we're finished. This is an ongoing drive for us to create the most efficient enterprise we can, which is not about taking people out, it's about being efficient in how we work, what we work on, how technology aids us, et cetera. There are lots of places where, for example, I'll give you one, service. We continue to build the best service technology, I believe, in the industry and scale it consistently. We are building skills across the enterprise, so that customers can service their own issues themselves and easily. It's an ongoing process. But the benefit of the efficiency borne of those improvements has not really been seen because COVID has had this enormously elevated service demand on the industry. So as we normalize out to historical propensities for service calls, et cetera, et cetera, there is real benefit down the road on how we do that.

所以當你說我們已經退出了這個項目時，它不像一個有目標的項目，我們結束並說我們已經完成了。這是我們不斷推動我們創造最高效企業的動力，這不是要讓人們出去，而是要在我們的工作方式、我們的工作內容、技術如何幫助我們等方面保持高效。有很多地方，例如，我會給你一個，服務。我相信，我們將繼續打造業內最好的服務技術，並不斷擴大規模。我們正在整個企業中培養技能，以便客戶可以自己輕鬆地解決他們自己的問題。這是一個持續的過程。但是，這些改進帶來的效率帶來的好處並沒有真正體現出來，因為 COVID 對行業的服務需求大大提高。因此，當我們將服務呼叫的歷史傾向等標準化時，我們如何做到這一點確實有好處。

Now you alluded to there are places we are "investing" in. I mean that is really just our way of saying we are pushing to drive this innovation and drive us across these bridges as quickly as we can. And if we have -- if we need to invest more in people and resources to drive some of this innovation, we will do it. But the innovation in and of itself will drive incremental efficiency.

現在你提到了我們正在“投資”的地方。我的意思是，這實際上只是我們說我們正在推動這項創新並儘快推動我們跨越這些橋樑的方式。如果我們有——如果我們需要在人力和資源上投入更多來推動一些創新，我們就會去做。但創新本身將推動效率的提高。

So I don't think this is a long-term like -- this is a long-term sideways to down -- or I should say, expanding margin story, we believe, driven by the technical efficiencies that the product will drive. And if there's some bumps in the road as we get there, we have to flex up to drive on innovation faster, we may do that because we think it's the right thing for the traveler and for our partners. But overall, there's still much more opportunity to become more efficient over time for margins to expand, and we believe that's what we will continue to drive towards.

所以我不認為這是一個長期的趨勢——這是一個長期的橫向下跌——或者我應該說，我們相信，在產品將推動的技術效率的推動下，擴大利潤率的故事。如果我們到達那裡的道路上遇到一些顛簸，我們必須靈活地推動創新更快，我們可能會這樣做，因為我們認為這對旅行者和我們的合作夥伴來說是正確的。但總體而言，隨著時間的推移，仍有更多機會提高效率以擴大利潤率，我們相信這就是我們將繼續努力的方向。

The next question comes from the line of Lloyd Walmsley from UBS.

下一個問題來自瑞銀的 Lloyd Walmsley。

Two questions, if I can. First, any update on just the marketing integration consolidating data and ops into a unified group, like any early learnings there? And then secondly, can you kind of help us parse out the strong ADR growth? Like how much of that is a function of HomeAway growing in the mix? And I guess, more importantly, like what are the puts and takes of how you see ADRs migrating over the course of the year? Like is this still a big tailwind because like-for-like channel pricing is going up? Or there's like a shift back to core hotel to offset that? Like how do we think about ADRs over the course of the year?

兩個問題，如果可以的話。首先，關於將數據和操作整合到一個統一組中的營銷整合的任何更新，就像那裡的任何早期學習一樣？其次，你能幫我們分析一下強勁的 ADR 增長嗎？就像其中有多少是 HomeAway 在混合中增長的功能？而且我想，更重要的是，您如何看待 ADR 在一年中遷移的方式是什麼？由於同類渠道定價正在上漲，這仍然是一個很大的順風嗎？或者有像回到核心酒店的轉變來抵消這一點？比如我們如何看待一年中的 ADR？

Thanks, Lloyd. I'll take the first part. And by the way, watch the Vrbo ad this weekend. So you start saying Vrbo instead of HomeAway. But the -- on the marketing integration, we've made a lot of progress in moving along on the marketing integration and the data and analytics and measurement, et cetera. I'd say we're virtually all the way there, not quite all the way there, and the learnings have been coming.

謝謝，勞埃德。我將採取第一部分。順便說一句，這個週末看 Vrbo 廣告。所以你開始說 Vrbo 而不是 HomeAway。但是——在營銷整合方面，我們在營銷整合、數據、分析和測量等方面取得了很大進展。我想說我們幾乎一直到那裡，而不是一直到那裡，並且學習已經到來。

Eric and I see reports weekly about where we're winning, where we're learning things where we're testing things. There's no silver bullet, like "Oh, we found this, and it's going to win everything." It's really a game of 1,000 different wheel tests across 100 geos across 5 product groups, et cetera, et cetera.

埃里克和我每週都會看到關於我們在哪裡獲勝、我們在哪裡學習、我們在測試什麼的報告。沒有靈丹妙藥，比如“哦，我們找到了這個，它將贏得一切。”這實際上是一個包含 5 個產品組等 100 個地理區域的 1000 次不同車輪測試的遊戲，等等。

So all of it is incrementally getting there. We're feeling quite positive about a number of things we've been testing and learning. We've pushed heavily into mobile and other areas where we found the opportunity. We're pushing into new products, in social products and other things where we found opportunity that is sort of tantamount to performance marketing in certain ways. So there's a lot of interesting learnings going.

因此，所有這些都在逐步實現。我們對我們一直在測試和學習的許多事情感到非常積極。我們已經大力推進移動和其他我們發現機會的領域。我們正在推進新產品、社交產品和其他領域，我們發現在某些方面相當於績效營銷的機會。所以有很多有趣的學習。

The reality is until things normalize, it's going to be really hard to measure us on this because you can't see what normal is anymore. And even for us, it's hard to see what normal is. And a lot of these new tests, new algorithms are learning on these very volatile traffic patterns because of COVID, et cetera.

現實情況是，在事情正常化之前，很難在這方面衡量我們，因為你再也看不到正常是什麼了。即使對我們來說，也很難看出什麼是正常的。由於 COVID 等原因，許多這些新測試、新算法正在學習這些非常不穩定的流量模式。

So I think we feel good about the technical progress the teams are making about the way they've plotted out their course of learning and testing. And there's no question it will inure to our benefit. But being able to identify a single thing or a single win or how to quantify it is really hard to do at this moment. So I think you have to wait for the collective good to roll through our P&L, and hopefully, you'll see it as things normalize.

因此，我認為我們對團隊在規劃學習和測試過程的方式方面所取得的技術進步感到滿意。毫無疑問，它將對我們有利。但是，目前很難確定單一事物或單一勝利或如何量化它。所以我認為你必須等待集體利益通過我們的損益表，希望你會看到事情正常化。

And on the ADR side, I'll give a sense for a look back and then a look forward. Obviously, I won't go into the details, but to help you frame it. When you think about the historic -- core ADRs, they continue to be strong across both hotel and Vrbo. I think you can see that across some of the other industry companies or metrics. And then our mix, in particular, has benefited from more weighting to the U.S., more weighting to Vrbo, more weighting to vacation destinations where there typically are higher ADRs. So our high ADR performance, if you will, is a mix of both core ADRs and the mix that we've had over the last quarter and prior to that as well.

在 ADR 方面，我會先回顧一下，然後再展望一下。顯然，我不會詳細介紹，而是幫助您構建它。當您考慮歷史性的核心 ADR 時，它們在酒店和 Vrbo 中仍然很強大。我認為您可以在其他一些行業公司或指標中看到這一點。然後，我們的組合尤其受益於對美國的更多權重，對 Vrbo 的更多權重，對通常具有較高 ADR 的度假目的地的權重。因此，如果您願意的話，我們的高 ADR 表現是核心 ADR 和我們在上個季度和之前的組合的混合。

Moving forward, we do expect core ADRs to remain strong. We think this is going to be a strong rebound travel year. We obviously have lots of bookings already going into the summer period where we can see the ADRs are holding up quite well. And -- but I do think you need to look at when you look at the -- take the core into the projection of our business. Presuming some of our other areas of our business come back, it's still going to be a mix. We're going to go into some primary markets that have some higher ADRs. We're also going to mix into Europe a bit more, particularly APAC when it starts rebounding, LatAm, so on and so forth, more in the hotel and presumably Vrbo, not predicting any degradation in Vrbo but just from a mix perspective. And so as you project that ADR for us, I expect that will normalize to a certain extent over time. But again, it's on the back of 4 underlying strong medias.

展望未來，我們確實預計核心 ADR 將保持強勁。我們認為這將是一個強勁反彈的旅遊年。很明顯，我們已經有很多預訂進入夏季期間，我們可以看到 ADR 的表現相當不錯。而且 - 但我確實認為你需要看看 - 將核心納入我們業務的預測中。假設我們業務的其他一些領域回來了，它仍然會是一個混合體。我們將進入一些具有較高 ADR 的主要市場。我們還將更多地融入歐洲，特別是亞太地區，當它開始反彈時，拉丁美洲等等，更多的是在酒店，大概是 Vrbo，不預測 Vrbo 的任何退化，而只是從混合的角度來看。因此，當您為我們預測 ADR 時，我預計隨著時間的推移，這將在一定程度上正常化。但同樣，它是在 4 個潛在的強大媒體的背後。

Our next question comes from Justin Post from Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Justin Post。

Great. First question, can you help us at all with summer booking pacings, whether lodging or in total, versus either '19 or last year?

偉大的。第一個問題，與 19 年或去年相比，您能否在夏季預訂節奏方面為我們提供幫助，無論是住宿還是總體預訂？

And then second, I don't know if you can help us at all, but just thinking about Vrbo as a percent of the total. I imagine it's grown a lot over the last couple of years. But if you could help us think about where that could be today.

其次，我不知道你是否能幫助我們，但只是考慮 Vrbo 佔總數的百分比。我想它在過去幾年裡增長了很多。但是，如果您能幫助我們考慮一下今天的情況。

Yes, I'll take that one. Thanks for the question, Justin. So Vrbo continues to perform well overall. We see strength against 2019. We see strength against 2021. Obviously, I'm not going to go into the specific details of those, but the brand and the product category are both doing quite well.

是的，我要那個。謝謝你的問題，賈斯汀。因此，Vrbo 總體上繼續表現良好。我們看到了 2019 年的實力。我們看到了 2021 年的實力。顯然，我不會詳細介紹這些細節，但品牌和產品類別都做得很好。

When you asked about summer bookings or pacing, we're seeing ourselves up against both of those time periods that I just mentioned, both 2019 and 2021. So it's not only that the category is slowing up, but I think it continues to win share, if you will, in this market.

當您詢問夏季預訂或起搏時，我們看到自己與我剛才提到的兩個時間段（2019 年和 2021 年）相比。因此，不僅該類別正在放緩，而且我認為它繼續贏得份額，如果你願意，在這個市場上。

Hotel on the other side is recovering. It's not quite at the levels that we would have seen in the past. We suspect if the recovery continues that there'll be a catch-up somewhere along the line, we don't know.

另一邊的酒店正在恢復。它並不完全處於我們過去所看到的水平。我們懷疑，如果復蘇繼續下去，是否會在某個地方出現追趕，我們不知道。

Our next question comes from Deepak Mathivanan from Wolfe Research.

我們的下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Deepak Mathivanan。

Great. Just a couple of ones. Can you talk about the hiring plans and head count levels for 2022? Do you feel like you're in a good position with respect to head count right now and generally well prepared for demand recovery across various products? Are there also any notable wage inflationary trends that you're seeing currently?

偉大的。就幾個。您能談談 2022 年的招聘計劃和人數水平嗎？您是否覺得您現在在員工人數方面處於有利位置，並且總體上為各種產品的需求復蘇做好了充分準備？您目前是否還看到任何顯著的工資通脹趨勢？

And then second question on variable marketing efficiencies on the direct marketing side, can you help us maybe in a qualitative way to kind of understand how much efficiencies you're seeing on the direct marketing side because of all the brand rationalization efforts and things you have done in the last couple of years? It's kind of easy to see the fixed cost savings. But given the moving pieces of the business, particularly due to geographical mix and product mix, it's a little bit kind of tricky to see the direct marketing efficiencies that you're seeing. So maybe you can qualitative to touch on that, that would be great.

然後是關於直銷方面可變營銷效率的第二個問題，您能否以定性的方式幫助我們了解由於所有品牌合理化工作和您擁有的東西，您在直銷方面看到了多少效率在過去的幾年裡完成了嗎？很容易看到固定成本節省。但是考慮到業務的變化，特別是由於地域組合和產品組合，看到你所看到的直接營銷效率有點棘手。所以也許你可以定性地談一談，那會很棒。

Yes. Thanks, Deepak. I'm glad you find it tricky, too. We also do given everything that's moving around. And as I mentioned, it's one of the challenges in trying to quantify for you or anyone or ourselves exactly how much progress we've made in terms of marketing efficiencies because the traffic patterns are so volatile, mix is so different, et cetera.

是的。謝謝，迪帕克。我很高興你也覺得這很棘手。考慮到一切都在移動，我們也會這樣做。正如我所提到的，這是試圖為您或任何人或我們自己量化我們在營銷效率方面取得了多少進展的挑戰之一，因為流量模式如此不穩定，組合如此不同等等。

I mean you just take something like air as an example, the air market has changed considerably. It's largely domestic, very relatively international. We've historically been strong in international. We've improved how we're approaching it, as you say, across our brands. We've consolidated spend. We've learned a lot about the multi-brand approach, but it hasn't really paid off yet in, for example, international air because there's just not much of it.

我的意思是你只是以空氣為例，空氣市場已經發生了很大的變化。它主要是國內的，非常相對國際化。我們在國際上一直很強勢。正如您所說，我們已經改進了我們在各個品牌中的處理方式。我們已經合併了支出。我們已經學到了很多關於多品牌方法的知識，但它還沒有真正得到回報，例如在國際航空領域，因為它並不多。

So the short answer is, we made a huge amount of progress as I said, in terms of tools, in terms of data, in terms of insights, in terms of being able to test and learn across a much broader swath of our enterprise. But being able to quantify really how much better it is in basis points or something that would give you a projectable marketing efficiency is still very challenging.

因此，簡短的回答是，正如我所說，我們在工具、數據、洞察力以及能夠在更廣泛的企業範圍內進行測試和學習方面取得了巨大的進步。但是，能夠真正量化它在基點上的改進程度或可以為您提供可預測的營銷效率的東西仍然非常具有挑戰性。

We believe it's much better. We believe we are in a much better positioned to capitalize on the future state of normalcy. But there's no question the tools and the capabilities are in a much better place, but we have to pay that off and demonstrate it to the world and ourselves. And it's in process, but it's going.

我們相信它會好得多。我們相信我們處於更好的位置來利用未來的正常狀態。但毫無疑問，這些工具和功能處於更好的位置，但我們必須付出代價並向世界和我們自己展示它。它正在進行中，但它正在發生。

So I think we feel very good, but we acknowledge it's difficult for you all to see it. And we're just going to have to wait for things to normalize, so you can see the benefit.

所以我認為我們感覺很好，但我們承認你們很難看到它。我們只需要等待事情正常化，這樣你就可以看到好處。

And I'll take -- thanks for the question, Deepak. I'll take the first part on the hiring plan. And I'm going to expand your question so just more overall from an overhead perspective and just perhaps help a bit on some of the moving parts as you look into next year and to help you model it out.

我會接受——謝謝你的問題，迪帕克。我將參加招聘計劃的第一部分。我將擴展您的問題，以便從頭頂的角度更全面地了解您的問題，並在您展望明年並幫助您對其進行建模時，可能會對一些活動部分有所幫助。

I think first off, in Q4, we were a bit lighter on expected people costs. We do have plans to continue hiring around some of our initiatives as we go into next year we want to if -- do recall that we had 1 month of Egencia in Q4. So that was something that you would want to model out, which I discussed in my remarks.

我認為首先，在第四季度，我們對預期的人員成本有所減輕。我們確實有計劃繼續圍繞我們的一些舉措進行招聘，因為我們希望在明年 - 記得我們在第四季度有 1 個月的 Egencia。所以這是你想要建模的東西，我在我的評論中討論過。

Our T&E discretionary, et cetera, continues to be lower than once we start getting back into normal business travel in whatever form or shape that takes, et cetera, going forward.

我們的 T&E 酌情決定權等，繼續低於我們開始以任何形式或形式恢復正常商務旅行後，等等，繼續前進。

On your question on wage inflation, as I mentioned earlier, I do expect that we will have higher-than-expected compensation increases this year. And again, as a reminder, this will go in on April 1.

關於你關於工資通脹的問題，正如我之前提到的，我確實預計我們今年的薪酬增長將高於預期。再次提醒一下，這將在 4 月 1 日開始。

And as we talked about on previous calls, there are some investments that we are making in the business. We are excited about a number of different opportunities to accelerate the growth in a number of different areas. Of course, we're being prudent, very positive ROI, going to track those relentlessly along the way, but that could increase to a certain extent as well. Hopefully, that helps you.

正如我們在之前的電話會議中談到的那樣，我們正在對業務進行一些投資。我們很高興有許多不同的機會來加速許多不同領域的增長。當然，我們是謹慎的，非常積極的投資回報率，將在此過程中無情地跟踪那些，但這也可能會在一定程度上增加。希望對您有所幫助。

Our next question today comes from Stephen Ju from Credit Suisse.

我們今天的下一個問題來自瑞士信貸的 Stephen Ju。

Okay. So I think it's been some time since we've seen these types of metrics, but anything you can share in terms of what percent of the Vrbo inventory has now been integrated into Brand Expedia and the other outlets? I mean, ultimately, you want to present the traveler with more choice and improve the overall shopping experience. I think the last time we talked about this, you guys are still kind of in the experimental phase and trying to see how much of a better shopping experience you could drive. But sort of any sort of perspective on that would be helpful.

好的。因此，我認為我們已經有一段時間沒有看到這些類型的指標了，但是您可以分享關於 Vrbo 庫存的百分比現在已集成到 Brand Expedia 和其他網點的任何信息？我的意思是，最終，您希望為旅行者提供更多選擇並改善整體購物體驗。我認為我們上次討論這個問題時，你們還處於試驗階段，並試圖看看你能帶來多少更好的購物體驗。但是，對此有任何看法都會有所幫助。

Yes, sure. Thanks, Stephen. I would say we are still building to it. It is a core part of our plan. And by the way, it's not simply so that we can provide it to our own travelers. It's also so that we can provide it to our B2B partners so that they can provide it to their travelers. So it's a quite interesting and substantial opportunity, we believe.

是的，當然。謝謝，斯蒂芬。我會說我們仍在為此而努力。這是我們計劃的核心部分。順便說一句，這不僅僅是為了讓我們可以將它提供給我們自己的旅行者。這也是為了讓我們可以將其提供給我們的 B2B 合作夥伴，以便他們可以將其提供給他們的旅行者。因此，我們相信這是一個非常有趣和重要的機會。

We do have it integrated. It's not a great integration, but we do have it integrated into Expedia and Hotels.com. The issue has been, it only works among other things, not being a great product experience is what -- the main thing we have to fix. But also, it does not have an approach that works for the properties that you have to reserve and then we have to -- they're not instant book, the ones where we have to go to the owners and see if they are okay for the booking. That is a construct. That is not part of what is currently possible in the Expedia brand or the Hotels.com brand, et cetera.

我們確實集成了它。這不是一個很好的集成，但我們確實將它集成到了 Expedia 和 Hotels.com。問題是，它只能在其他方面起作用，而不是出色的產品體驗是我們必須解決的主要問題。但是，它沒有一種方法適用於您必須預訂的房產，然後我們必須 - 它們不是即時預訂，我們必須去業主那裡看看他們是否可以預訂。那是一種構造。這不是 Expedia 品牌或 Hotels.com 品牌等目前可能實現的部分。

So it's kind of a 2-part thing. One is we want to improve the product experience for the traveler and make it a better integration, make it easier to book, make the content more usable, easier to understand, so the travelers can make the decisions. And then we want to expand the universe of the type of properties that can be available through those pipes. And that is where the big -- where another big expansion and the idea comes.

所以這是一個兩部分的事情。一是我們希望改善旅行者的產品體驗並使其更好地集成，使預訂更容易，使內容更可用，更易於理解，以便旅行者能夠做出決定。然後我們想要擴展可以通過這些管道獲得的屬性類型的範圍。這就是大的地方 - 另一個大的擴張和想法出現的地方。

Those are both in the works. They will take some time. I would say they're not our highest priority, but they're far from our lowest priority. They're big, important thing. We have teams working on it, and we will -- we expect to continue to see improvement.

這些都在工作中。他們將需要一些時間。我想說它們不是我們的最高優先級，但它們遠非我們的最低優先級。它們很大，很重要。我們有團隊致力於此，我們將 - 我們希望繼續看到改進。

We have a lot happening on the front end of the product this year in terms of integrating a number of our brands to the same front-end rails and a lot of opportunity to improve those experiences and roll out a new app construct, et cetera. So all of those -- you have to obviously, order of operations question, but as those things roll out, this experience will get better and better, and we believe will become a bigger feature of the business.

今年我們在產品的前端發生了很多事情，將我們的多個品牌整合到相同的前端軌道上，並有很多機會來改善這些體驗並推出新的應用程序結構等等。所以所有這些——顯然，你必須提出運營順序問題，但隨著這些事情的推出，這種體驗會越來越好，我們相信這將成為業務的更大特徵。

Our next question comes from Mario Lu from Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊的 Mario Lu。

First one on cancellation rates. I believe the lodging numbers you provided earlier was (inaudible). So I was just curious, was it much higher in 4Q and early in 1Q due to Omicron? And if so, do you think those that cancel could potentially be a tailwind to future bookings?

第一個關於取消率。我相信您之前提供的住宿號碼是（聽不清）。所以我只是好奇，由於 Omicron，它在 4Q 和 1Q 早期是否更高？如果是這樣，您是否認為取消預訂可能會成為未來預訂的順風車？

On cancellation rates, as you read more in the newspaper, generally, the cancellation rates go up. So yes, we saw cancellation rates go up and particularly in the December time period and the early part of January when Omicron was impacting the business as some people didn't necessarily feel safe and comfortable traveling, and we certainly saw cancellations increase.

關於取消率，當您在報紙上閱讀更多內容時，通常取消率會上升。所以是的，我們看到取消率上升，特別是在 12 月期間和 1 月初 Omicron 正在影響業務，因為有些人不一定覺得旅行安全和舒適，我們當然看到取消率增加。

If I extend to a longer period of time, obviously, if you go back to 2020, cancellation rates went up exceedingly. They were coming down over time, still elevated relative to historical levels. Just safety concerns people come down with COVID individually and can't travel, whatever else, again, saw it spike up in December and then coming back down again. Following a similar path to what I was just mentioning on the (inaudible).

如果我延長到更長的時間，很明顯，如果你回到 2020 年，取消率會大幅上升。它們隨著時間的推移而下降，但相對於歷史水平仍然較高。只是出於安全考慮，人們單獨感染了 COVID，不能旅行，無論如何，它在 12 月再次飆升，然後又回落。遵循與我剛剛在（聽不清）中提到的類似的路徑。

On the tail end of future bookings, I think you're asking the level of pent-up demand or how many people would postpone, will they rebook if they cancel. I think that's hard to tell. But I would say, just generally speaking, I think everyone feels in a similar way, which is when people can travel, they are going to travel and they're going to travel quite consistently throughout the year if they're able to do so, maybe more than they have in the past. To rebook, if you will, but only time will tell. But I would say we're certainly optimistic.

在未來預訂的尾聲，我想你是在問被壓抑的需求水平，或者有多少人會推遲，如果取消，他們會重新預訂。我認為這很難說。但我想說，一般來說，我認為每個人都有類似的感受，那就是人們可以旅行時，他們會去旅行，如果他們能夠這樣做，他們將在一年中非常一致地旅行，也許比過去更多。重新預訂，如果你願意的話，但只有時間會證明一切。但我會說我們當然是樂觀的。

Great. And then just second question in terms of remote work and longer duration stay, the lodging side of business. Have you guys seen that kind of drive bookings already at Vrbo or even the core business? And then how long is the opportunity do you think that is in the long term?

偉大的。然後是關於遠程工作和更長停留時間的第二個問題，即企業的住宿方面。你們是否已經在 Vrbo 甚至核心業務看到過這種驅動器預訂？那麼從長遠來看，您認為機會有多長？

Yes. This hasn't been a big theme for us. You've probably noticed on our call. I know some others have a different view of that. It's an interesting thesis and certainly as people have more flexibility to travel, we hope they fill up their flexible time with travel.

是的。這對我們來說不是一個大主題。您可能已經註意到我們的電話。我知道其他一些人對此有不同的看法。這是一個有趣的論點，當然，隨著人們旅行的靈活性更大，我們希望他們能用旅行來充實自己的靈活時間。

In terms of Vrbo, we haven't quite seen the distortion. We've heard others talk about in terms of long stays or things like that. It's moved somewhat, but it's not as noticeable for us. And I think it's an interesting and good potential tailwind if people have more time to travel. But we'll see when people get back to work. We'll see when schools back in, et cetera, how much flexibility everybody gets.

在 Vrbo 方面，我們還沒有完全看到失真。我們聽到其他人談論長期逗留或類似的事情。它有些移動，但對我們來說並不那麼明顯。而且我認為如果人們有更多的時間去旅行，這是一個有趣且良好的潛在順風。但我們會看到人們何時恢復工作。我們會看到學校何時重新開學，等等，每個人都能獲得多少靈活性。

We don't think it matters. We think there's tons of pent-up demand, as Eric says. And if there's more days to be away, terrific. That will be good for us. And I think that will be selective, but a good general trend on some portion of society, and we're looking forward to that.

我們認為這不重要。正如埃里克所說，我們認為有大量被壓抑的需求。如果還有更多的日子要離開，那就太好了。這對我們有好處。我認為這將是有選擇性的，但在社會的某些部分是一個良好的總體趨勢，我們對此充滿期待。

Our next question comes from James Lee from Mizuho.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞穗的 James Lee。

Great. So it looks like everybody is expecting normalized travel trends with the mix shift to urban and international markets. And Peter, I was hoping you could comment on this. If home accommodation continues to gain traction in urban markets, how do you feel about your supply in Vrbo? Any plans to increase ahead of demand?

偉大的。因此，隨著向城市和國際市場的混合轉移，看起來每個人都在期待正常化的旅行趨勢。彼得，我希望你能對此發表評論。如果家庭住宿在城市市場繼續受到關注，您對 Vrbo 的供應有何看法？有什麼計劃在需求之前增加嗎？

And I guess my second question relating to maybe additional levers in improving efficiency. I know you guys may have talked about this in the past. Will you consider consolidating all your hotel brands under Expedia?

我想我的第二個問題可能與提高效率的其他槓桿有關。我知道你們過去可能已經討論過這個問題。您會考慮將您所有的酒店品牌整合到 Expedia 旗下嗎？

Thanks, James. Appreciate the questions. I think on the first question, which is supply in major cities for Vrbo, it's never been a great strategy of ours. It's never been a huge focus of ours. We do have some in some big international cities. Again, I think much less for the one-night stay kind of thing and much more for the family vacation, that sort of thing. We think there's opportunity there, and we will continue to follow the demand trends. And as I've mentioned, we've been focused on not just sort of buying supply across the universe in everything and really being much more targeted and where the demand is and where we can get return for the homeowner. So we'll continue to do that.

謝謝，詹姆斯。欣賞這些問題。我認為第一個問題是 Vrbo 在主要城市的供應，這從來都不是我們的一個偉大戰略。它從來都不是我們的重點。我們在一些國際大城市確實有一些。再說一次，我認為一晚住宿之類的事情要少得多，而家庭度假之類的事情要多得多。我們認為那裡有機會，我們將繼續關注需求趨勢。正如我所提到的，我們一直關注的不僅僅是在整個宇宙中購買所有東西，而且實際上更有針對性，需求在哪裡，我們可以從哪裡獲得房主的回報。所以我們將繼續這樣做。

But Vrbo is not in the same way like some of the other choices focused on being a replacement for hotels in cities. We have a lot of great hotel partners in all the major cities of the world, and we see them coming back more strongly, and we think that's where the business is going to be for now. Of course, we want to continue to expand Vrbo wherever it makes sense and that we'll certainly look at cities where it makes sense.

但 Vrbo 與其他一些專注於替代城市酒店的選擇不同。我們在世界所有主要城市都有很多優秀的酒店合作夥伴，我們看到他們回來的勢頭更加強勁，我們認為這就是目前業務的發展方向。當然，我們希望繼續在任何有意義的地方擴展 Vrbo，我們肯定會關注有意義的城市。

As far as the brands, I would say this, it's on the brand team to figure out the best way to consolidate the brands in a construct that makes sense for the traveler. This isn't a construct that makes sense for us or we think it's cool, it's about what makes sense to travelers and why and how they need different products to do certain things. If over time, we conclude that we need fewer brands. I'm not sure it will be all under one, but we may conclude we need fewer more certainly, that we're going to lean into fewer, if that makes sense, we will do that. But that's what the brand team is working on now.

就品牌而言，我想說的是，品牌團隊要找出將品牌整合到一個對旅行者有意義的結構中的最佳方式。這不是一個對我們有意義的結構，或者我們認為它很酷，它是關於什麼對旅行者有意義，以及他們為什麼以及如何需要不同的產品來做某些事情。如果隨著時間的推移，我們會得出結論，我們需要更少的品牌。我不確定它是否會全部低於 1，但我們可能會得出結論，我們需要更少，更確定，我們將傾向於更少，如果這有意義，我們會這樣做。但這就是品牌團隊現在正在做的事情。

We've got new brand propositions for all our major brands rolling out soon. And I think over time, we will figure out what is right for the traveler. And certainly, as we integrate our loyalty programs, it is going to bring the brands much closer together and put us in a much more simplified position to decide whether fewer makes sense, et cetera, and have everybody still caught up in our web of loyalty and all the good things and good products we bring to the market.

我們即將推出所有主要品牌的新品牌主張。我認為隨著時間的推移，我們會弄清楚什麼是適合旅行者的。當然，隨著我們整合忠誠度計劃，這將使品牌更加緊密地聯繫在一起，並使我們處於一個更加簡化的位置，以決定減少是否有意義等等，並且讓每個人都仍然趕上我們的忠誠度網絡以及我們為市場帶來的所有好東西和好產品。

Our next question comes from Jed Kelly from Oppenheimer & Co.

我們的下一個問題來自 Oppenheimer & Co. 的 Jed Kelly。

Great. Nice work over the last 20 months. Just 2 questions, if I may. Just how should we view Expedia relative to the Google risk going into '22, which is looking like a nice demand environment relative to 2019?

偉大的。在過去的 20 個月裡做得很好。如果可以的話，只有 2 個問題。相對於進入 22 年的谷歌風險，我們應該如何看待 Expedia，相對於 2019 年，這看起來是一個不錯的需求環境？

And then Peter, you talked about you really can see nice margin expansion longer term for Expedia. Do you have like a long-term margin target you guys are kind of shooting for above 25%, 30%? Can you help us there as well?

然後彼得，你談到你真的可以看到 Expedia 的長期利潤增長很好。你們是否有一個長期的利潤率目標，你們的目標是 25%、30% 以上？你也可以幫助我們嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Jed. Those numbers sound pretty good. But I would say this, we don't have a number. And that is because, candidly, we are getting smarter about what is possible as we continue to roll out unified technology, unified solutions. We don't yet know the quantum of benefit that you get in conversion and other things that allow you to be more efficient on the marketing side because the product is working better.

是的。謝謝，傑德。這些數字聽起來很不錯。但我想說的是，我們沒有數字。這是因為，坦率地說，隨著我們繼續推出統一的技術和統一的解決方案，我們對可能發生的事情變得越來越聰明。我們還不知道您在轉換中獲得的收益以及其他可以讓您在營銷方面更有效率的事情，因為產品運行得更好。

There's a lot to learn. I mean I know you all look at the competition and try to reference that. But I think, look, we believe all of these pieces add up to benefits that drive more growth and higher margins. And that's what we're focused on. So as the product improves, as the underlying technology platform improves, as that serves more partners, et cetera, all of those things get better and scale brings efficiency.

有很多東西要學。我的意思是我知道你們都在看比賽並嘗試參考。但我認為，看，我們相信所有這些因素加起來會帶來更多的好處，從而推動更多的增長和更高的利潤率。這就是我們所關注的。因此，隨著產品的改進，隨著底層技術平台的改進，隨著為更多的合作夥伴服務等等，所有這些事情都會變得更好，規模會帶來效率。

So I think we're just going to continue to drive it. It's in our core now to continue to drive it. And I hope those numbers are achievable. And when we get there, we get there. So I don't think it's about putting some random number that we're guessing at what's possible out there. I think we're just driving it as we can.

所以我認為我們將繼續推動它。現在繼續推動它是我們的核心。我希望這些數字是可以實現的。當我們到達那裡時，我們到達那裡。所以我不認為這是關於放置一些我們猜測可能存在的隨機數。我認為我們只是盡可能地駕駛它。

As far as the Google risk goes, I don't -- maybe I'm saying, but I don't consider it a Google risk. Google is Google. We operate in that market. We do everything we can to optimize that market. And we work closely with them to try to figure out better ways to optimize that market. And we have some interesting ideas percolating at the moment.

就谷歌風險而言，我不——也許我是說，但我不認為這是谷歌風險。谷歌就是谷歌。我們在那個市場經營。我們盡一切努力優化該市場。我們與他們密切合作，試圖找出更好的方法來優化該市場。目前我們有一些有趣的想法正在滲透。

But ultimately, as I alluded to, when we pull all those people out of the Google market, we have not done a sufficiently good job of retaining those travelers as long-term customers. And that's on us because of the products, because of competitive issues -- because of all kinds of things. And we are literally addressing all of those things at once.

但最終，正如我所提到的，當我們將所有這些人從谷歌市場中撤出時，我們在留住這些旅行者作為長期客戶方面做得不夠好。因為產品，因為競爭問題——因為各種各樣的事情，這都在我們身上。我們實際上是在一次解決所有這些問題。

I believe that each of them multiply each other make us collectively stickier between a better product and better loyalty and broader loyalty and better marketing that helps their traveler understand the benefits we provide and getting them to enjoy the benefits we provide more readily, et cetera. So I think we believe that Google can stay Google. I always say Google is a shark. You should expect the shark to be a shark. It will keep doing what it does. We operate in their marketplace, and we have to do our part of optimizing the marketplace. We have a lot of room to do better, and that's what we're focused on.

我相信，它們中的每一個都相乘，使我們在更好的產品和更好的忠誠度、更廣泛的忠誠度和更好的營銷之間更具粘性，幫助他們的旅行者了解我們提供的好處，讓他們更容易享受我們提供的好處，等等。所以我認為我們相信谷歌可以繼續留在谷歌。我總是說谷歌是一條鯊魚。你應該期望鯊魚是鯊魚。它將繼續做它所做的事情。我們在他們的市場中運營，我們必須儘自己的一份力量來優化市場。我們有很大的空間可以做得更好，這就是我們所關注的。

And I'm pretty sure they don't want to be in a business of taking service calls and dealing with travelers and actually being a customer company. They just want to be a search engine. So I think we're in a pretty good spot.

而且我很確定他們不想從事接聽服務電話和與旅行者打交道並實際上成為客戶公司的業務。他們只是想成為一個搜索引擎。所以我認為我們處於一個很好的位置。

Our next question comes from Tom Champion from Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Piper Sandler 的 Tom Champion。

Peter and Eric, I was wondering if I could ask a question around the new customer cohorts. And I'm just curious whether they resemble pre-pandemic behavior or if you're seeing any new or divergent trends out of your newer customers. And then maybe Eric, for you to ask question around margins. It looks to me like 4Q margins were up 300 basis points, give or take, over 2019. I'm just wondering if that's a good guidance for thinking about the margin potential for the next couple of quarters, kind of the near-term outlook. Any thoughts around there would be really helpful.

Peter 和 Eric，我想知道是否可以就新客戶群提出問題。而且我只是好奇它們是否類似於大流行前的行為，或者您是否從新客戶中看到了任何新的或不同的趨勢。然後也許是 Eric，讓你問關於利潤的問題。在我看來，與 2019 年相比，第 4 季度的利潤率上升了 300 個基點。我只是想知道這是否是一個很好的指導來考慮未來幾個季度的利潤率潛力，有點像近期前景.周圍的任何想法都會非常有幫助。

Tom, it's Peter. I'll go first. In terms of cohorts, again, I think it would be a mistake to draw too much from anything that's going on right now. As I mentioned, patterns are much different, the volatilities and ebb and flow of cancellations and other things are much different. What we're more keenly focused on is looking at cohorts in terms of engagement with the app, how that changes as we make improvements in the product, et cetera. I think there, we're seeing the directional things we hope to see. We have a lot, a lot, a lot more to deliver. So it's early days, but our focus is really on that.

湯姆，是彼得。我先走。再說一次，就群組而言，我認為從現在發生的任何事情中汲取太多東西是錯誤的。正如我所提到的，模式有很大不同，取消和其他事情的波動性和潮起潮落也有很大不同。我們更關注的是在與應用程序的互動方面觀察群體，隨著我們對產品的改進，這種變化是如何變化的，等等。我認為在那裡，我們看到了我們希望看到的定向事物。我們有很多，很多，更多的東西要交付。所以現在還為時過早，但我們的重點確實在這一點上。

I don't think we've seen any new patterns that are either alarmingly good or bad in terms of how travelers act, how many of them go on to the Google and Meta world versus come direct. I mean, direct -- most travel companies benefited from mix to direct, but that was only because there was less demand in the open seas.

我認為我們沒有看到任何新模式，無論是就旅行者的行為方式而言，好還是壞，他們中有多少人進入谷歌和 Meta 世界而不是直接進入。我的意思是，直航——大多數旅遊公司都從混合直航中受益，但這僅僅是因為公海的需求減少了。

I think as demand continues to rise, there's not really any reason to imagine that, that will be greatly distorted except for the example, we do a good job of, again, getting travelers to the app, getting them locked into our ecosystem, getting them understanding the benefits. So that's what we're focused on. And I think anything else, frankly, to -- it'd be wrong to draw any conclusions based on the volatile times we've been in. So we'll see as things normalize, but we'll let you know if we see that.

我認為隨著需求的持續增長，沒有任何理由可以想像，這將大大扭曲，除了示例，我們再次做好了讓旅行者使用應用程序，讓他們鎖定在我們的生態系統中，獲得他們了解好處。所以這就是我們所關注的。坦率地說，我認為其他任何事情 - 根據我們所處的動盪時期得出任何結論都是錯誤的。所以我們會看到事情正常化，但如果我們看到，我們會通知你那。

Great. Tom, thanks for the question on the margin side. I'm not going to go into specifics on the number of bps in 1 quarter versus another. But of course, we are pleased to see Q4 2021 standpoint, the margins that we did have relative to the volume where we were down 17% from a revenue standpoint and then from 2019 EBITDA numbers, so pleased from that perspective.

偉大的。湯姆，感謝邊緣方面的問題。我不打算詳細說明 1 個季度與另一個季度的 bps 數量。但是，當然，我們很高興看到 2021 年第四季度的立場，相對於我們從收入角度下降 17% 的量，然後從 2019 年 EBITDA 數字來看，我們確實擁有的利潤率，從這個角度來看非常高興。

I guess a few things that I would urge you to consider is, one, if there is significant seasonality in the business. So you have to look at Q1 versus Q2, 3 and 4 and if there's a significant different curve from a booked and stayed basis. Booked is obviously driven by marketing and net expense; and then the stayed basis, where the revenue comes from lodging perspective. So just make sure that you're keenly aware of that seasonality. Gave some information earlier around overhead and various components that you can model into the business as well.

我想我會敦促您考慮的幾件事是，第一，如果業務存在明顯的季節性。因此，您必須查看 Q1 與 Q2、3 和 4 以及是否存在與預訂和入住基礎顯著不同的曲線。預訂顯然是由營銷和淨費用驅動的；然後是住宿的基礎，收入來自住宿的角度。所以只要確保你敏銳地意識到這種季節性。之前提供了一些關於開銷和您可以建模到業務中的各種組件的信息。

And then 2 other quick comments is on the margin, we are going to be aggressive from a marketing spend perspective, as we talked many times in this call already. We are optimistic about this year in the return of travel, presuming nothing else comes out of left field, if you will. And we're going to be aggressive, and we're going to spend into that recovery.

然後還有另外 2 條簡短的評論，從營銷支出的角度來看，我們將採取積極的態度，正如我們已經在本次電話會議中多次談到的那樣。我們對今年旅行的回歸持樂觀態度，如果你願意的話，假設沒有其他任何事情發生。我們將變得積極進取，我們將投入到復蘇中。

And then lastly, I know we touched on it a little bit earlier. But just from a variable cost perspective, we have -- every time there's one of these disruptions, their long duration of calls with customers with complex issues to sort through and a real cost savings associated with variable costs really can't be seen yet. We are increasingly using technology to solve customer traveler problems, more consistently using that technology. And that's being clouded a bit because of those more challenging call volumes. And so I suspect that we'll see some of those savings come in as we get to a more normal period. So hopefully, that helps you with the modeling.

最後，我知道我們之前談到了它。但僅從可變成本的角度來看，我們有 - 每次出現這些中斷時，他們與需要解決複雜問題的客戶的長時間通話以及與可變成本相關的真正成本節約實際上還看不到。我們越來越多地使用技術來解決客戶旅行者的問題，並且更加一致地使用該技術。由於那些更具挑戰性的通話量，這有點蒙上陰影。因此，我懷疑隨著我們進入一個更正常的時期，我們會看到其中一些節省。因此，希望這可以幫助您進行建模。

Our final question today comes from Richard Clarke from Sanford C. Bernstein.

我們今天的最後一個問題來自 Sanford C. Bernstein 的 Richard Clarke。

So just a question running into the summer. I guess coming out of the financial crisis '09, the Expedia and the other players probably benefited from a prolonged recovery, maybe too much supply relative to demand. If this summer is very, very strong and we have a lot of demand relative to supply, do you see any danger the hotels or your private rentals play the platforms off against each other a little bit or look to other channels?

所以只是一個進入夏天的問題。我猜想從 09 年的金融危機中走出來，Expedia 和其他參與者可能受益於長期復蘇，可能是相對於需求而言供應過多。如果今年夏天非常非常強勁，並且相對於供應而言，我們的需求很大，那麼您是否認為酒店或您的私人出租房屋會在平台之間相互競爭或尋找其他渠道有什麼危險？

And then second question, a little bit more simple. But in Q3, I think you talked about your marketing costs being quite high because of the Delta variant coming very late in the quarter. You could sort of say the same pattern happened here. Omicron came quite late in the quarter. So does that distorted the marketing spend in the quarter at all with committed spend earlier on?

然後是第二個問題，稍微簡單一點。但是在第三季度，我認為您談到您的營銷成本非常高，因為 Delta 變體在本季度很晚才推出。你可以說這裡發生了同樣的模式。 Omicron 在本季度很晚才出現。那麼，這是否會扭曲本季度的營銷支出與早些時候的承諾支出？

I'll take the first one, and then Eric can cover the marketing costs. Thanks for the question, Richard. I would say you could have made the same argument during COVID when there was compressed demand in a number of places. We did not see what you're alluding to in terms of suppliers playing off. I think, as I said, we have a common challenge. We're all working together for every hotel in Miami, there's another one in New York that was suffering and many big chains, et cetera, own hundreds of hotels across good and bad markets. And I think we're all in it together.

我會拿第一個，然後 Eric 可以支付營銷費用。謝謝你的問題，理查德。我想說，當許多地方的需求壓縮時，你本可以在 COVID 期間提出同樣的論點。我們沒有看到您在供應商方面所暗示的內容。我認為，正如我所說，我們面臨著共同的挑戰。我們都在為邁阿密的每一家酒店共同努力，紐約還有一家正在遭受苦難，許多大型連鎖店等擁有數百家橫跨好市場和壞市場的酒店。我認為我們都在一起。

As I said in my beginning remarks, we're in it to try to help them optimize their business as much as optimizing ours. And I think there is definitely a shared sense of we can all build this better together.

正如我在開場白中所說，我們正在努力幫助他們優化他們的業務，就像優化我們的業務一樣。而且我認為肯定有一種共同的感覺，我們都可以一起更好地建立這個。

So I think there will be a lot of demand if there will be some compressed places. I think there will be enough places to go that the demand will find an outlet. And I think we provide unique services in terms of people being able to find things, discover where they want to go, find alternatives, et cetera, and provide a great value for our supply partners, including the many things we do for them beyond just allowing them to supply on our platform or with the partners in demand generation of other products or technology, et cetera. So I think it's my sincere hope that our supply partnerships or our partnerships more generally are going to get bigger and broader and more beneficial to both sides over time.

所以我認為如果有一些壓縮的地方會有很多需求。我認為會有足夠多的地方去需求會找到一個出口。我認為我們在人們能夠找到東西、發現他們想去的地方、尋找替代品等方面提供獨特的服務，並為我們的供應合作夥伴提供巨大的價值，包括我們為他們做的許多事情不僅僅是允許他們在我們的平台上或與合作夥伴一起提供其他產品或技術的需求生成等。所以我認為我真誠地希望我們的供應夥伴關係或更普遍的伙伴關係隨著時間的推移變得更大、更廣泛、對雙方都更有利。

And this isn't going to be the classical site for who's got a little leverage for the last nickel on a given day. So I don't think we'll see that. I think we'll see everybody trying to benefit from the upward trend and riding it together. And some of our partners will get their direct traffic. We'll get our direct traffic and everybody will do the best they can with those travelers. So that's what I expect.

這不會是經典的網站，誰在某一天對最後一分錢有一點籌碼。所以我認為我們不會看到這一點。我想我們會看到每個人都試圖從上升趨勢中受益並一起乘勢而上。我們的一些合作夥伴將獲得他們的直接流量。我們將獲得直接流量，每個人都會盡其所能與這些旅行者相處。所以這就是我所期望的。

And then, Richard, on the second part of your question on marketing costs, we did see a similar dynamic this quarter as well, just given the Omicron impact, towards the latter end of the quarter, end of December perhaps to a lesser extent, but again, a similar dynamic.

然後，理查德，關於營銷成本問題的第二部分，我們確實在本季度看到了類似的動態，只是考慮到 Omicron 的影響，在本季度末，12 月底可能在較小程度上，但同樣，類似的動態。

And I would split it again into 2 components. The first is around performance marketing. Those are fine-tuned machines that ultimately are driven by the underlying search demand and whether that's across Meta channels, Google or wherever else. And so as people stopped searching for traffic and/or booking traffic, then the number of clicks and associated marketing expense naturally comes down with it.

我會再次將其拆分為 2 個組件。首先是圍繞績效營銷。這些是經過微調的機器，最終由潛在的搜索需求驅動，無論是跨元渠道、谷歌還是其他任何地方。因此，當人們停止搜索流量和/或預訂流量時，點擊次數和相關的營銷費用自然會隨之下降。

On the brand marketing side, we stated, of course, in Q4 through -- all the way through December, so you are likely aware, brand marketing spend becomes much more fixed as you get closer to the time of being deployed. And then secondly is we had a hypothesis is that for each variant that comes along, the impact is going to be shorter, and it's going to be shallower. And that's ultimately what we have seen with Omicron is that we effectively were impacted for approximately a month, maybe a little bit more than that where it was more like 2, 2.5 months with the Delta variant.

在品牌營銷方面，我們當然說過，在第四季度一直到 12 月，所以您可能已經意識到，隨著您接近部署時間，品牌營銷支出變得更加固定。其次，我們有一個假設，即對於出現的每個變體，影響會更短，而且會更淺。這就是我們最終在 Omicron 上看到的情況，我們實際上受到了大約一個月的影響，可能比 Delta 變體的 2、2.5 個月多一點。

So we felt that we should continue to invest in performance as it was there, we would go after the demand and we stay the course on marketing.

所以我們覺得我們應該繼續投資於性能，我們會追求需求，我們會堅持營銷。

Those are all the questions we have time for today. So I'll now hand back to the management team for any concluding comments.

這些都是我們今天有時間討論的問題。因此，我現在將任何結論性意見交回管理團隊。

I guess I'll just say thank you for joining us. I hope you all travel this summer, and you know where to find us if you need to travel, and we'll talk to you next quarter. Thank you.

我想我會說謝謝你加入我們。我希望你們今年夏天都去旅行，如果你們需要旅行，你們知道在哪裡可以找到我們，我們將在下個季度與你們交談。謝謝你。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. This concludes our call. Please disconnect your lines.

謝謝大家，今天加入我們。我們的電話到此結束。請斷開您的線路。