Enovix Corp (ENVX) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Enovix Corporation fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's program will be recorded.

感謝您的支持，歡迎參加 Enovix Corporation 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。(操作員指示) 提醒一下，今天的節目將被錄製。

And now I'd like to introduce your host for today's program, Robert Lahey, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想介紹今天節目的主持人、投資者關係主管羅伯特·萊希 (Robert Lahey)。先生，請繼續。

Thank you. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Enovix Corporation's fourth-quarter and full year 2024 financial results conference call. With us today are President and Chief Executive Officer, Dr. Raj Talluri; Chief Accounting Officer, Kristina Truong; and Chief Operating Officer, Ajay Marathe. Raj and Kristina will provide an overview, and then we'll take your questions. After the Q&A session, we'll conclude our call.

謝謝。大家好，歡迎參加 Enovix Corporation 2024 年第四季和全年財務業績電話會議。今天與我們在一起的有總裁兼首席執行官 Raj Talluri 博士；首席會計官 Kristina Truong；和首席營運官 Ajay Marathe。Raj 和 Kristina 將提供概述，然後我們將回答您的問題。問答環節結束後，我們將結束通話。

Before we continue, let me kindly remind you that we released our fourth quarter 2024 shareholder letter after the market close today. It's available on our website at ir.enovix.com. A replay of this video call will be available later today on the Investor Relations page of our website.

在我們繼續之前，請允許我提醒您，我們在今天收盤後發布了 2024 年第四季股東信。您可以在我們的網站 ir.enovix.com 上找到它。該視訊通話的重播將於今天晚些時候在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上提供。

Please note that the shareholder letter, press release, and this conference call all contain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements are based on current expectations and may differ materially from actual future events or results due to a variety of factors. For a discussion of those factors that could affect our future financial results and business, please refer to the disclosures in today's shareholder letter and our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

請注意，股東信函、新聞稿和本次電話會議均包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受風險和不確定性的影響。這些前瞻性陳述是基於目前預期，可能由於多種因素與實際未來事件或結果有重大差異。有關可能影響我們未來財務表現和業務的因素的討論，請參閱今天的股東信中的揭露內容以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

All of our statements are made as of today, February 19, 2025, based on information currently available to us. We can give no assurance that these statements will prove to be correct, and we do not intend and undertake no duty to update these statements except as required by law.

我們的所有聲明都是根據我們目前掌握的資訊截至今天（2025 年 2 月 19 日）做出的。我們無法保證這些聲明的正確性，除非法律要求，否則我們無意也不承擔更新這些聲明的義務。

During this call, we will also discuss non-GAAP financial measures, which are not prepared in accordance with the generally accepted accounting principles. You can find a reconciliation of the GAAP financial measures to non-GAAP financial measures in our shareholder letter, which is posted on the Investor Relations page of our website.

在本次電話會議中，我們還將討論非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 財務指標，這些指標並非依照公認會計原則編製。您可以在我們的股東信中找到 GAAP 財務指標與非 GAAP 財務指標的對帳表，該信件發佈在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上。

I'll now turn the call over to Raj to begin. Raj?

現在我將把電話轉給 Raj 開始。拉吉？

Thank you, Rob, and thanks to everybody for joining us today. For our format today, I'm going to start with a recap of our recent results and some of our recent milestones before I turn it over to Kristina for financials and outlook. I'll have a few closing comments, and then we'll take your questions.

謝謝你，羅布，也謝謝大家今天的到來。按照我們今天的安排，我將首先回顧我們最近的業績和一些最近的里程碑，然後再交給克里斯蒂娜介紹財務和展望。我先做幾點結束語，然後我們會回答你們的問題。

We had a very productive 2024, especially Q4. To recap our recent achievements, first, our revenues in the fourth quarter were $9.6 million (sic - see press release, "$9.7"), near the high end of our guidance range. For the year 2024, total revenues were $23.1 million, up $7.6 million -- up from $7.6 million in 2023.

我們的 2024 年非常富有成效，尤其是第四季。回顧我們最近的成就，首先，我們第四季度的收入為 960 萬美元（原文如此 - 參見新聞稿“970 萬美元”），接近我們預期範圍的高端。2024 年的總收入為 2,310 萬美元，比 2023 年的 760 萬美元增加 760 萬美元。

Second, we completed our top manufacturing and product objectives for the quarter by completing site acceptance testing of our high-volume manufacturing line and shipping our first samples of EX-2M to customers. Third, we shipped early engineering samples of our leads to our lead smartphone OEM with the results confirming the critical safety tests are all passing.

其次，我們完成了大批量生產線的現場驗收測試並向客戶運送了首批 EX-2M 樣品，從而完成了本季度的最高製造和產品目標。第三，我們將主要的早期工程樣品運送給我們的主要智慧型手機 OEM，結果證實關鍵的安全測試全部通過。

Additionally, we received the cell dimensions as a continuation of the agreement we made with them. These dimensions are actually of the cell that they expect to be shipping in 2025. Now we're on track now for commercial smartphone launches in 2025, pending successful completion of the customer qualification.

此外，作為我們與他們達成的協議的延續，我們收到了細胞尺寸。這些尺寸實際上是他們預計在 2025 年出貨的電池的尺寸。目前，我們正按計劃在 2025 年推出商用智慧型手機，但需成功完成客戶資格認證。

Fourth, in line with the agreement we announced in June 2024, we also delivered our first battery packs of our first custom cells from Malaysia with packs built in our Korea facility. In addition, we secured a purchase order from a custom battery -- from a second marquee smart eyewear customer.

第四，根據我們在 2024 年 6 月宣布的協議，我們還從馬來西亞交付了第一批客製化電池組，這些電池組在我們的韓國工廠製造。此外，我們還獲得了第二家大型智慧眼鏡客戶的客製化電池採購訂單。

The ramp of Fab2 in Malaysia in 2024 stands out as a pivotal accomplishment for the company. We managed to complete SAT of our HVM line in just one year after our first tools arrived. Yields are now well beyond the final levels we achieved in Fab1, and we have incremental targets in place throughout the year, and we believe that -- we believe will ensure readiness for smartphone mass production in the fourth quarter of '25.

Fab2 將於 2024 年在馬來西亞投產，這是該公司的關鍵成就。我們在第一批工具到達後僅一年就完成了 HVM 生產線的 SAT。現在，產量已經遠遠超過了我們在 Fab1 實現的最終水平，而且我們全年都設定了增量目標，我們相信這將確保在 2025 年第四季度為智慧型手機的大規模生產做好準備。

We now have multiple customer audits going on, serving as a strong testament to our manufacturing readiness and our customers' interest in using our products. While we remain focused on smartphones, we're also prioritizing segments where major battery constraints or supply chain requirements are creating a strong competitive advantage for our technology. Recently, smart eyewear emerged as one of these segments, and we're now in the process of developing custom cells for marquee customers in this space.

目前，我們正在進行多項客戶審核，這有力地證明了我們的製造準備就緒以及客戶對使用我們產品的興趣。在我們繼續專注於智慧型手機的同時，我們也優先考慮那些電池限製或供應鏈要求較高的領域，這些領域能為我們的技術帶來強大的競爭優勢。最近，智慧眼鏡成為這些領域之一，我們目前正在為該領域的知名客戶開發客製化單元。

Another market that recently emerged as a unique growth opportunity for us is the defense industry, where we recognized a significant portion of our 2024 revenues with conventional graphite battery products. Since the US elections last November, we observed an increase in inbound interest from drone manufacturers and defense suppliers seeking battery solutions that comply with allied country supply chain requirements. Earlier this year, we secured a sample purchase order from one of these suppliers for autonomous AI systems. While these developments are still evolving, we're optimistic about the potential upside from these.

國防工業是最近出現的另一個為我們帶來獨特成長機會的市場，我們在該市場中確認，2024 年收入的很大一部分來自傳統石墨電池產品。自去年 11 月美國大選以來，我們注意到無人機製造商和國防供應商對符合盟國供應鏈要求的電池解決方案的興趣增加。今年早些時候，我們從其中一個供應商獲得了一份自主人工智慧系統的樣品採購訂單。儘管這些發展仍在不斷發展，但我們對其潛在的上升空間持樂觀態度。

And on the product front, it's also been a very productive 2024 and Q4 for us. We successfully completed testing of EX-1M and performance results indicate that we're on track to meet targets of energy density, cycle life, and fast charging. For EX-2M, we delivered early engineering samples to OEMs across both smartphone and IoT markets, and we received positive feedback that the EX-2M energy density is meeting customer targets. And looking ahead, we have officially kicked off the design phase of EX-3M, incorporating feedback from our lead OEMs to ensure alignment with their evolving requirements.

在產品方面，2024 年和第四季對我們來說也是非常有成效的。我們成功完成了 EX-1M 的測試，性能結果表明我們有望實現能量密度、循環壽命和快速充電的目標。對於 EX-2M，我們向智慧型手機和物聯網市場的 OEM 提供了早期工程樣品，並且我們收到了積極的回饋，即 EX-2M 的能量密度滿足了客戶目標。展望未來，我們已經正式啟動 EX-3M 的設計階段，並吸收了我們主要 OEM 的回饋意見，以確保符合他們不斷變化的需求。

Now with that, I'll turn it over to Kristina for the financials. Kristina?

現在，我將把財務問題交給克里斯蒂娜。克里斯蒂娜？

Thank you, Raj. All the relevant financials are in our quarterly report and our shareholder letter, so I will speak from a high level and then provide outlook.

謝謝你，拉吉。所有相關的財務資訊都在我們的季度報告和股東信中，因此我將從高層次發言，然後提供展望。

We delivered Q4 2024 revenue of $9.7 million, above the midpoint of our guidance. Non-GAAP EBITDA came in at a loss of $11.7 million, above our guidance of a loss of $19 million to $25 million, and our non-GAAP EPS came in at a loss of $0.11, also above our guidance of a loss of $0.15 to $0.21.

我們實現的 2024 年第四季營收為 970 萬美元，高於我們預期的中位數。非公認會計準則下的 EBITDA 虧損 1,170 萬美元，高於我們預期的 1,900 萬美元至 2,500 萬美元虧損，非公認會計準則下的 EPS 虧損 0.11 美元，也高於我們預期的 0.15 美元至 0.21 美元虧損。

We ended the quarter with roughly $273 million of cash and cash equivalents. CapEx in Q4 was $16.4 million, and cash used in operation totaled $16 million. Our balance sheet is strong, giving us a runway for -- and optionality for funding additional HVM lines.

截至本季末，我們的現金和現金等價物約為 2.73 億美元。第四季的資本支出為 1,640 萬美元，營運現金使用總額為 1,600 萬美元。我們的資產負債表強勁，為我們提供了發展空間，並為額外的 HVM 生產線提供融資選擇。

Now for our guidance. For the first quarter of 2025, we forecast revenue of $3.5 million to $5.5 million, an adjusted EBITDA loss of $21 million to $27 million, and a non-GAAP EPS loss of $0.15 to $0.21.

現在給出我們的指導。對於 2025 年第一季度，我們預測營收為 350 萬美元至 550 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 虧損為 2,100 萬美元至 2,700 萬美元，非 GAAP EPS 虧損為 0.15 美元至 0.21 美元。

Now I'll turn back to Raj for close. Raj?

現在我要轉回 Raj 來結束這段對話。拉吉？

Well, thanks, Kristina. As you can see, 2024 was a big year for us. We made significant strides by launching new high-volume manufacturing line in Malaysia with custom battery cells already shipping from the agility line and high-volume production slated for 2025. We also focused on building strong customer demand across key markets, including smartphone and IoT OEMs while we continue to drive innovation and operational excellence.

好吧，謝謝，克里斯蒂娜。如您所見，2024 年對我們來說是重要的一年。我們取得了重大進展，在馬來西亞啟動了新的大批量生產生產線，定制電池單元已從敏捷生產線發貨，併計劃於 2025 年實現大批量生產。我們也致力於在主要市場（包括智慧型手機和物聯網 OEM）建立強勁的客戶需求，同時持續推動創新和卓越營運。

With that, we can go to the questions. Operator?

有了這些，我們就可以開始回答問題了。操作員？

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. Please note that this call is being recorded. Before we go to live questions, we're going to read the two most highly voted questions submitted by shareholders ahead of this call during the call registration.

我們現在開始問答環節。請注意，本次通話正在錄音。在我們開始現場提問之前，我們將閱讀股東在本次電話會議登記期間提交的兩個投票最多的問題。

The first question is, regarding policies and tariffs implemented by the new administration, what are the potential implications for Enovix's current and future business operations and prospects?

第一個問題是，新政府實施的政策和關稅對 Enovix 目前和未來的業務運作和前景有何潛在影響？

Yeah. Thank you for the question. As I mentioned in the prepared remarks, we are actually getting increased interest since last November for our batteries from defense and other industrial customers in the US. As a reminder, we -- our factories are actually in Korea and also in Malaysia, which is actually very favorable due to shipping batteries into the US. So it's been a -- we don't see much effect on the tariffs at this point.

是的。感謝您的提問。正如我在準備好的演講中提到的，自去年 11 月以來，美國國防和其他工業客戶對我們的電池的興趣實際上日益增加。提醒一下，我們的工廠實際上在韓國和馬來西亞，這對於將電池運往美國實際上非常有利。所以目前我們還沒有看到關稅產生太大的影響。

And the second question is, can you lay out the current guidance for adding lines? What is the current capacity? When will you begin ordering equipment? And how long will it take to install any additional lines?

第二個問題是，您能否介紹一下目前新增線路的指導？目前的容量是多少？您什麼時候開始訂購設備？安裝任何額外的管線需要多長時間？

Yeah. I'll take a shot at the question, and I'll have Ajay add more color to it. Firstly, we are super excited that we completed the SAT of our high-volume manufacturing line. The factory we have in Malaysia, we have the ability to add up to four lines there and we put in one line, and that's the one we completed SAT on.

是的。我會嘗試回答這個問題，並讓 Ajay 為其添加更多內容。首先，我們非常高興我們完成了大批量生產線的 SAT。我們在馬來西亞的工廠有能力在那裡增加多達四條生產線，我們投入了一條生產線，這就是我們完成 SAT 的生產線。

In terms of current capacity, I'll let Ajay comment, and then I'll talk about how to add additional lines.

對於當前容量，我將讓 Ajay 發表評論，然後我將討論如何添加額外的線路。

Thanks, Raj. Good question. The current Line 1, Gen2 Line 1, which is installed in our Malaysia Fab, is running and was bought off in SAT at 1,350 UPH, just as a reminder, which is equivalent of roughly 9.5 million to 10 million batteries a year. Now this is fed by what we call farms in Zone 1 which is dicing and Zone 4 which is testing. Now we're adding capacity to Zone 1 as we see the indications from the market as to how much volume do we need to support.

謝謝，拉傑。好問題。目前的 1 號線，即 Gen2 1 號線，安裝在我們的馬來西亞工廠，正在運行，並以 1,350 UPH 的價格從 SAT 購買，提醒一下，這相當於每年生產大約 950 萬到 1000 萬塊電池。現在，這些產品由我們所謂的 1 區（切割區）和 4 區（測試區）的農場提供。現在，我們正在增加 1 區的容量，因為我們看到了市場對我們需要支援多少交易量的指示。

So that's where the capacity lies. And the way we are looking at adding lines is basically long lead time items such as various different items in the line, which are on the -- used as control systems on the manufacturing line. We are ordering and keeping them as inventory at our suppliers. So this makes us -- gives us the ability to shrink the timeline as to when we can add second, third, fourth line. So that's how we are looking at this capacity.

這就是容量所在。我們考慮增加生產線的方式基本上是交付週期較長的產品，例如生產線上的各種不同產品，它們被用作生產線上的控制系統。我們正在訂購它們並將它們作為庫存保存在我們的供應商處。因此，這使得我們能夠縮短新增第二行、第三行、第四行的時間軸。這就是我們對這種能力的看法。

Yeah. Thank you, Ajay. Nothing else to add.

是的。謝謝你，阿傑。沒什麼好補充的。

(Operator Instructions) Jed Dorsheimer, William Blair.

（操作員指令）傑德·多斯海默，威廉·布萊爾。

Hi, thanks. Congrats on the quarter and thanks for taking my question. I guess, first one, just the drone purchase order. I'm curious -- just trying to get a better understanding of the growth profile of this customer. I think -- you mentioned it's $1 billion -- that they're doing $1 billion in revenue. And I think if memory serves, they just hit that.

嗨，謝謝。恭喜本季取得佳績，感謝您回答我的問題。我想，第一個只是無人機採購訂單。我很好奇——只是想更了解這個客戶的成長狀況。我認為 — — 您提到是 10 億美元 — — 他們的收入是 10 億美元。我想如果我沒記錯的話，他們就是這麼做的。

So I just want to make sure that that customer is kind of on that S-curve of inflection. Am I thinking about that customer in the right way? And maybe you can comment on is the defense is coming in better than expected? How you're thinking about that? And then I have a follow-up, too.

所以我只是想確保客戶處於那種 S 曲線拐點。我是否以正確的方式考慮那位顧客？也許您可以評論一下防守情況是否比預期的要好？您對此有何看法？然後我還有一個後續行動。

Yeah. We can't really comment on which customer, but one thing I can tell you is we are seeing a lot of interest for the batteries that we are making in our Korea facility because they are high-rate batteries and they are very good for these kind of applications where you need the fast discharge and high rate of discharge.

是的。我們無法真正評論具體是哪位客戶，但有一件事我可以告訴你，那就是我們看到很多人對我們在韓國工廠生產的電池感興趣，因為它們是高倍率電池，非常適合需要快速放電和高放電率的這類應用。

And the market is growing. It's hard to put an exact number on it. It's early stage in terms of qualification. But hopefully, as the qualifications go through, we'll be able to add more color on how we see the business going. But we are getting multiple inquiries for those batteries from different customers now in the US.

而且市場正在成長。很難給出一個確切的數字。從資格方面來說，還處於早期階段。但希望隨著資格審核的通過，我們能夠對業務進展有更多的了解。但現在我們收到來自美國不同客戶對這些電池的多個詢價。

Great. And then just as my follow-up, just pivoting to the commercial smartphone, you're now starting to build a backlog of that customer base. I was wondering if you could just rank order the cell phone customers in terms of the pipeline and the commercialization stage, if you could just remind us of that. Thanks.

偉大的。然後，正如我的後續報道，轉向商用智慧型手機，你現在開始建立該客戶群的積壓。我想知道您是否可以根據管道和商業化階段對手機客戶進行排序，您可以提醒我們嗎？謝謝。

Yeah. I mean, we had mentioned that we have sampled seven of the top eight customers and another one just placed an order for samples from us, clearly showing -- interest is building up in our products and what we can build. We talked about two agreements that we have with two customers and they're both progressing. One of them, we actually received the -- after passing the milestones and last time I talked about getting a payment for the milestones, we now got a very important next milestone, which is we got the exact dimensions of the battery that will be in the phone this year. So that is a huge step because now we understand exactly what it is.

是的。我的意思是，我們曾經提到，我們已經對前八大客戶中的七大進行了抽樣，另外一家客戶剛剛向我們訂購了樣品，這清楚地表明，人們對我們的產品以及我們可以製造的東西的興趣正在日益濃厚。我們討論了與兩位客戶達成的兩項協議，目前它們都在取得進展。其中之一，我們實際上收到了——在通過了里程碑之後，上次我談到了獲得里程碑付款，現在我們得到了一個非常重要的下一個里程碑，那就是我們獲得了今年手機電池的確切尺寸。這是一個巨大的進步，因為現在我們確切地了解了它是什麼。

Just to remind the viewers what we sampled was a standard battery that we made here of a standard size, but now we got dimensions of the battery, and this is north of 7,000 milliamp hours, so a sizable battery, but again, the space is still constrained in the phone. So our energy density clearly adds a value there. And next stage is we expect that to get qualified with our technology in their phone and we expect to get other custom cells from the following customers in that order.

只是為了提醒觀眾，我們所取樣的是我們在這裡製作的標準尺寸的標準電池，但現在我們得到了電池的尺寸，這是 7,000 毫安時的北部，因此是一個相當大的電池，但同樣，手機中的空間仍然受到限制。因此我們的能量密度顯然增加了價值。下一階段，我們希望我們的技術能夠在他們的手機中獲得認證，並且我們希望按照該順序從以下客戶那裡獲得其他定製手機。

And again, this one particular battery that we are making for this customer, it could go into multiple models. Typically, these batteries go into multiple models within the segment of the market. So super excited by the progress we're making. It's steady and gradual and thought through.

再次強調，我們為這位客戶生產的這款特定電池可用於多種型號。通常，這些電池會用於特定市場領域的多個型號。我們對所取得的進展感到非常興奮。它是穩定、漸進和經過深思熟慮的。

Ananda Baruah, Loop Capital.

Ananda Baruah，Loop Capital。

Hey, guys. Yeah, thanks for taking the question. Really appreciate it. I guess Raj and Ajay sort of sticking right there. Can you remind us for EX-2M and you mentioned Raj, EX-3M. Two things, like, number one, like the capabilities of each model and then when do you think each of those models like get into the marketplace and get to volume? And anything you can say about the volume that each of those can bring to the company would be awesome. Thanks.

嘿，大家好。是的，感謝您回答這個問題。真的很感激。我猜 Raj 和 Ajay 就堅持在那裡。您能否提醒我們 EX-2M 以及您所提到的 Raj、EX-3M。有兩件事，第一，例如每種型號的功能，然後您認為每種型號什麼時候會進入市場並實現批量生產？如果你能說出他們每個人能為公司帶來多大的價值，那將是令人驚嘆的。謝謝。

Yeah. The way to think about this is we have made a choice of different anodes and cathodes and electrolytes and so on, which is our first EX-1M product where we got requirements for the customers, and we sample them. We are now getting feedback from them on -- we like this part. We want you to increase this part. We want you to kind of trade-off of -- I've said this before, trade-off of energy density versus fast charge versus cycle life versus temperature performance and so on. We are now optimizing that to meet the customer requirements.

是的。思考這個問題的方式是，我們選擇了不同的陽極、陰極和電解質等，這是我們的第一個 EX-1M 產品，我們根據客戶的要求對其進行了抽樣。我們現在正在收到他們的回饋——我們喜歡這部分。我們希望您增加這一部分。我們希望您進行權衡——我之前說過，能量密度與快速充電、循環壽命與溫度性能等之間的權衡。我們現在正在優化以滿足客戶的要求。

Meanwhile, we make a step forward in choosing a newer set of materials that give increased energy density, and that's the EX-2M. And then we make more advances in terms of both materials and also our architecture in terms of reducing the amount of inactive materials so that we can get more energy density and that's the EX-3M, which we just started.

同時，我們又向前邁進了一步，選擇了一組可提高能量密度的更新材料，這就是 EX-2M。然後我們在材料和架構方面取得了更多進展，減少了非活性材料的數量，從而可以獲得更高的能量密度，這就是我們剛剛啟動的 EX-3M。

In terms of volumes, it's difficult to comment on volumes at this stage because it'll depend upon which customers go to production first, how many models we get designed into, how quickly we can ramp that. And that I think towards the later part of the year we'll be able to comment more because at this stage, they're all in different stage of qualification and we have visibility into one of the models, but there's a lot more behind that. So it just takes time to be able to answer that question more precisely.

就產量而言，現階段很難對產量發表評論，因為這取決於哪些客戶首先投入生產，我們設計了多少型號，以及我們能夠多快提高產量。我認為到今年下半年我們將能夠發表更多評論，因為在這個階段，它們都處於不同的資格階段，我們對其中一個模型有了了解，但這背後還有更多的內容。因此，需要時間才能更準確地回答這個問題。

Okay, that's awesome. And I guess just as the follow-up, just Ajay, just make sure we fully understand the context around sort of the four lines -- is it Line 1 -- you mentioned 9.5 to 10. Is there anything implied in your description of that, that the 9.5 to 10 can get filled in a sort of reasonable amount of time? And then you're sort of in speaking to the expansion of the lines, then you said you're sort of you'll ramp lines as things progress. Or is it -- you can do sort of 9.5 to 10 to start per line.

好的，太棒了。我想作為後續問題，Ajay，請確保我們完全理解這四行的上下文 - - 是第 1 行嗎 - - 您提到了 9.5 到 10。您的描述中是否暗示 9.5 到 10 可以在合理的時間內填滿？然後你在談論線路的擴展時，你說你會隨著事情的進展而增加線路。或是 —— 您可以每行執行 9.5 到 10 的排序。

I think you'll probably tweak that up from there just with efficiency gains. But even inside of that line -- and sort of as things progress, is that also wrapped into the Line 1 as well? Just context around that. Thanks.

我認為您可能會從那裡開始進行調整，以提高效率。但即使在那條線內 — — 隨著事情的進展，它是否也包含在第 1 號線內？僅圍繞該內容。謝謝。

Absolutely. Thanks, Ananda. Yes, the Line 1, as just a reminder, is what we call the universal line. So it is a line which is capable of running equally efficiently the smaller cells which we are also feeding into the AR/VR market. I think Raj alluded to that in his prepared remarks as well as the large cell which we are now working on, custom cell, which is more than 7,000 milliamp hours.

絕對地。謝謝，阿南達。是的，提醒一下，1 號線就是我們所說的通用線。因此，這條生產線能夠同樣高效地運行我們也向 AR/VR 市場提供的較小電池。我認為拉吉在他準備好的發言中提到了這一點，以及我們目前正在研究的大型電池，定制電池，其容量超過 7,000 毫安時。

So it can handle all of it. The capacity kind of remains the same. Line 2, 3, 4, when we would order that all depends on the customer qualification cycles, as Raj also said. And whatever improvements we do, actually the focus from Line 2 to 4 is going to be optimizing the line for also CapEx spend per line as well as the speed. And we will do the learnings and backward -- make it backward compatible to also the Line 1. So universally, we can ship and make and ship from any of the four lines that Raj talked about.

所以它可以處理這一切。容量保持不變。第 2、3、4 行，我們何時訂購完全取決於客戶資格週期，正如 Raj 所說的那樣。無論我們做什麼改進，實際上從 2 號線到 4 號線的重點都是優化每條線的資本支出以及速度。我們將不斷學習，並使其向後相容於 1 號線。因此從普遍意義上來說，我們可以透過 Raj 提到的四條線路中的任何一條進行運輸、製造和發貨。

Yeah. And one other thing, I don't know, maybe just to remind you, as Ajay mentioned, when we built the first line, we built what is called a universal line, which can go from very small batteries to much bigger batteries. That's a more expensive line but gives us the flexibility because we're not sure exactly where the demand would be when we build that line.

是的。還有一件事，我不知道，也許只是為了提醒你，正如阿傑所提到的，當我們建造第一條生產線時，我們建造了一條所謂的通用生產線，它可以從非常小的電池到更大的電池。這是一條更昂貴的生產線，但卻為我們提供了靈活性，因為我們不確定建造這條生產線時的具體需求在哪裡。

As we get more and more visibility into like these kind of custom cells, we can optimize our lines more to that size cells and not have so much flexibility in it, which optimize the cost of the line, which increase the throughput of the line, so -- which is kind of like a natural evolution of how you do manufacturing as you understand the product demand better, we optimize it for both cost and speed, right? And that's kind of how this is going to go.

隨著我們對此類客製化單元的了解越來越多，我們可以將生產線優化到這種尺寸的單元，並且靈活性會降低，從而優化生產線的成本，提高生產線的產量，所以 - 這有點像製造方式的自然演變，當你更好地了解產品需求時，我們會針對成本和速度進行優化，對嗎？事情將會是這樣發展的。

Thank you, guys. Appreciate that.

謝謝你們。非常感謝。

Colin Rusch, Oppenheimer.

奧本海默的科林拉什 (Colin Rusch)。

Thanks so much, guys. Getting to a 7,000 milliamp hour cell, it seems like a bit of an acceleration on some of the road maps. Can you talk a little bit about how quickly those specs are changing and how you're seeing that translate into potential pricing appreciation for the company?

非常感謝大家。要達到 7,000 毫安培時的電池，這在某些路線圖上似乎有點加速。您能否談談這些規格變化的速度有多快，以及您如何看待這些變化對公司價格上漲的潛在影響？

Yeah, I mean, it's a really good question, Colin. I mean I mentioned, I think, maybe -- probably think 2023 when I mentioned we are seeing a lot of AI coming to the edge that will drive a lot higher demand for battery because those applications consume a lot of energy. And I'm pleased to say that that's coming true today. What is happening now is the gen AI applications consume so much battery and every app -- and there's so many apps now running on the phone that consume that, that the customers are having to put higher and higher capacity batteries, much higher than we expected.

是的，我的意思是，這是一個非常好的問題，科林。我的意思是我提到過，我想，也許——可能——想想 2023 年，當我提到我們看到大量人工智慧走向邊緣時，這將推動對電池的更高需求，因為這些應用程式消耗大量能源。我很高興地說，今天這個願望已經實現了。現在的情況是，新一代人工智慧應用程式消耗大量電池電量，而且每個應用程式——現在手機上運行的許多應用程式都會消耗大量電池電量，因此客戶必須使用容量越來越大的電池，這比我們預期的要高得多。

7,000-plus that we saw today that we are working on. I see that getting even larger over time and clearly is a good tailwind for us in ASP because when you -- you have to deliver that kind of capacity on a limited form factor because a phone can't get bigger, which means the energy density is what drives that and we get a premium for energy density. So we -- this is a good tailwind for us in terms of both ASP premium and margin expansion as these trends continue.

我們今天看到的超過 7,000 個，我們正在處理這些。我發現隨著時間的推移，電池容量會變得越來越大，這顯然對我們在平均售價方面有利，因為你必須以有限的外形尺寸提供這種容量，因為手機無法變得更大，這意味著能量密度是推動這一趨勢的因素，而我們會獲得能量密度的溢價。因此，隨著這些趨勢的持續，這對於我們的平均售價溢價和利潤率擴張而言都是一個很好的順風。

That's super helpful. And then I guess my follow-up here is really about the competitive landscape. Obviously, there's been a lot of capital invested in materials and along with different electrolytes and rebalancing different cell structures. I'm just curious how quickly you're seeing competitors move and how intense that environment is for you guys as you go through this qualification process with all of these smartphone makers.

這非常有幫助。然後我想我在這裡的後續問題實際上是關於競爭格局。顯然，我們已經在材料、不同電解質以及重新平衡不同電池結構方面投入了大量資金。我只是好奇，當您與所有這些智慧型手機製造商一起進行資格認證過程時，您看到競爭對手的行動有多快，以及您面臨的環境有多激烈。

Yeah. Our competition continues to be incumbent graphite batteries which have kind of doped the graphite with some amount of silicon. I think we mentioned we saw 5% to 10%. But in a big cell, like 7,000 milliamp hours kind of range, if you put more than that, we are seeing that the swelling becomes too much. So you can't really keep doing that.

是的。我們的競爭對手仍然是現有的石墨電池，這種電池在石墨中摻雜了一定量的矽。我想我們提到我們看到了 5% 到 10%。但是在較大的電池中，例如 7,000 毫安培小時的範圍，如果放入的電流超過這個數字，我們就會看到腫脹變得過多。所以你真的不能繼續這樣做。

Our constraint in our innovative architecture, we use 100% active silicon. And as far as I know, we are the only ones that were able to put 100% active silicon and this is validated by our customers and also validated by the people who supply this silicon material. They do -- they're excited to work with us because we're able to use 100% of their material. So it's a competitive advantage we have with our architectural approach, and I hope to get this into product soon.

我們創新架構中的限制是，我們使用 100% 主動矽。據我所知，我們是唯一能夠生產 100% 活性矽的公司，這得到了我們客戶的驗證，也得到了供應這種矽材料的人員的驗證。確實如此——他們很高興與我們合作，因為我們可以使用他們 100% 的材料。所以這是我們的架構方法所具有的競爭優勢，我希望很快就能融入產品中。

Thanks, guys.

謝謝大家。

Bill Peterson, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的比爾彼得森。

Yeah. Hi, thanks for taking the questions. Recognizing your focus on smartphones and maybe some of these emerging IoT applications, but I wanted to come back to this defense opportunity. Can you speak more on the format or the size of the batteries? And I guess how much can the Korean site support in terms of, I don't know, whether it be megawatts or revenue. Just trying to get a sense for how fast you can grow into this market. And I guess if it were to be of interest, how fast could you expand your capacity?

是的。嗨，感謝您回答這些問題。認識到您關注的是智慧型手機以及一些新興的物聯網應用，但我想回到這個防禦機會。能否詳細談談電池的格式或尺寸？我猜韓國站點在兆瓦數或收入方面能支持多少，我不知道。只是想了解你能以多快的速度進入這個市場。我想，如果這引起人們的興趣的話，你能多快擴大你的產能？

Yeah. We have capacity now in our Korean factory to support some of these for now, and we have space available nearby and we can expand that and build more capacity. I mean, the good news is that as these things start getting qualified, we get visibility into what this demand could be like in next year because it takes a year or so to get these things really qualified into production. And as we start getting into quals in these opportunities, we will -- and we can expand in our facility there. It's a very nice site. It's in Nonsan and we have opportunity to grow there. So we're excited by that.

是的。目前，我們的韓國工廠有足夠的產能來支持其中的一些產品，而且我們附近還有可用空間，我們可以擴大規模並建立更多的產能。我的意思是，好消息是，隨著這些東西開始獲得資格，我們就可以了解明年的需求情況，因為讓這些東西真正投入生產需要一年左右的時間。當我們開始獲得這些機會的資格時，我們將會——並且可以擴大我們在那裡的設施。這是一個非常好的網站。它位於論山，我們有機會在那裡發展。我們對此感到很興奮。

Yeah. Thanks for that. And you added in your press release about the EV, you're advancing development agreements with the two customers. I had a sense that like that would have already been done. So I guess what areas remain to be resolved, I guess, before anything official happens? And I guess maybe to that point, has any of the joint development work happened thus far? I know these are long dated, but are there any key milestones we should be looking for this year? Or is the work really going to begin in earnest in 2026 and beyond?

是的。謝謝。您在有關 EV 的新聞稿中也補充道，您正在與兩家客戶推進開發協議。我感覺那樣的事情已經發生了。那我想問的是，在正式採取任何行動之前，還有哪些問題有待解決？我想也許到那時為止已經開展了任何联合開發工作了嗎？我知道這些都是很久以前的事了，但今年我們該關注什麼關鍵的里程碑嗎？或者這項工作真的要到 2026 年及以後才真正開始？

No, absolutely. I mean, work is ongoing. I mean, we have some -- we are able to now get the materials from these EV makers and we have them in our Malaysia factory. Because, as you remember, we shut the factory down here. Originally, we were thinking of doing some of that work here, but we moved it all to Malaysia and Ajay was able to create some space there because these are different materials, they have to be handled a little differently.

不，絕對不是。我的意思是，工作正在進行中。我的意思是，我們現在可以從這些電動車製造商那裡獲得一些材料，並且我們將它們放在馬來西亞的工廠裡。因為，正如你記得的，我們關閉了這裡的工廠。最初，我們打算在這裡做一些工作，但我們把它全部搬到了馬來西亞，Ajay 能夠在那裡騰出一些空間，因為這些是不同的材料，必須以稍微不同的方式處理。

So we have an area there where we are doing the EV work and we're now able to dice that material and we're working on making those into cells to prove out the advantage of our architecture even in the EV space. So stay tuned for that. I think this year, we should have some updates on that.

因此，我們在那裡有一個進行電動車工作的區域，現在我們能夠將該材料切割成小塊，並致力於將它們製成電池，以證明我們的架構即使在電動車領域也具有優勢。請繼續關注。我認為今年我們應該對此進行一些更新。

Thanks, Raj.

謝謝，拉傑。

George Gianarikas, Canaccord.

喬治·賈納里卡斯（George Gianarikas），Canaccord。

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking my questions. I just had a question about the smart glasses business. I think you mentioned in your press release that you expect commercial shipments to commence midyear. And in 2024, you had a couple of press releases, one that mentioned a California company where you had an AR/VR, I think, mixed headset; and another one in December that was another potential customer with a similar sort of device. So can we confirm that this commercial purchase orders for one of those two companies?

嘿，大家下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我剛剛對智慧眼鏡業務有一個疑問。我記得您在新聞稿中提到過，預計商業發貨將在年中開始。2024 年，您發布了幾份新聞稿，其中一份提到了一家加州公司，您在那裡推出了一款 AR/VR 混合耳機； 12 月又有一位潛在客戶也擁有類似設備。那麼我們能否確認這份商業採購訂單是針對這兩家公司中的一家嗎？

Yeah, these are for -- actually from both the companies. We have purchase orders. And in fact, I do have the cell here if -- I just want to show this to you guys since we are on video. This is actually the cell that we made that goes into the legs like that. And super exciting, you see in our investor letter we are able to not only make this cell, but we are able to package it with the battery management and so on into a pack in our Korea facility, and we were able to deliver that to the customer.

是的，這些實際上來自兩家公司。我們有採購訂單。事實上，我確實有這支手機，如果——既然我們在影片上，我只是想向你們展示一下。這實際上是我們製作的細胞，可以像那樣進入腿部。令人興奮的是，您可以在我們的投資者信中看到，我們不僅能夠製造這種電池，而且還能夠在韓國工廠將其與電池管理等一起包裝成一個包，然後我們能夠將其交付給客戶。

So it's a tremendous progress from the time we got the purchase order to actually get some early samples out from our new factory so -- and the results look really good. And like I said, we're going to continue to make that.

因此，從我們接到採購訂單到從新工廠生產一些早期樣品，這是一個巨大的進步——而且結果看起來非常好。正如我所說，我們會繼續這樣做。

And I'm kind of bullish on this market as a market that has a lot of potential in the out years, particularly because of the user interface problem has been really solved well with gen AI. You can speak to these devices. It's always clunky how to interact with a pair of glasses before. That problem, I think, is resolved pretty well. And also, I was at this AR conference, I think, last month or earlier this month. You could see the advances made in the waveguide optics and the brightness of the projectors and the miniaturization.

我對這個市場非常看好，認為它在未來幾年具有很大的潛力，特別是因為使用者介面問題已經透過人工智慧得到了很好的解決。您可以與這些設備對話。以前如何與一副眼鏡互動總是很笨拙。我認為這個問題已經解決得很好了。而且我想，上個月或本月初我參加了這個 AR 會議。您可以看到波導光學技術、投影機亮度和小型化方面的進步。

I've been in this space since I was at Qualcomm, I don't know, maybe a decade ago, but it looks like a lot of progress here. So we are pretty optimistic about that. And also, the cells we make are a huge advantage because there is not that much space to put batteries in these glasses and the applications demand a lot of performance from the battery to go for an all-day use. That's the reason we are seeing tremendous interest on our technology in this space. It'll take some time to get to multiple tens of millions, but it's a good place to start.

自從我在高通公司工作以來，我就一直從事這個領域，我不知道，也許是十年前，但看起來這裡已經取得了很大的進展。因此我們對此非常樂觀。而且，我們製造的電池具有巨大的優勢，因為這些眼鏡中沒有太多空間放置電池，而應用程式對電池的性能要求很高，才能滿足全天使用。這就是我們看到該領域對我們的技術產生巨大興趣的原因。要達到數千萬這個數字需要一些時間，但這是一個很好的起點。

Thank you. And also, on manufacturing, you -- since the last time we spoke, you've completed your site acceptance test, and you expect to begin production in earnest in the fourth quarter this year for smartphones at some point this year for the devices you just mentioned. What are the bottlenecks to being confident from here that you can scale that production? What -- obviously, you've been, I'm assuming, tinkering with some of the lines. And so I'm curious as to what has to be solved between now and then to really gain confidence that you can make these -- the batteries in the millions. Thank you.

謝謝。另外，在製造方面，自從我們上次談話以來，您已經完成了現場驗收測試，並且預計在今年第四季度的某個時候開始認真生產您剛才提到的智慧型手機設備。從現在起，有哪些瓶頸阻礙你確信可以擴大生產規模？什麼——顯然，我猜你一直在修改一些線條。所以我很好奇，從現在到那時，需要解決什麼問題才能真正有信心生產數百萬個電池。謝謝。

I'll take a quick shot at it, and I'll let Ajay speak. We are very pleased with the progress that Ajay and his team has made. We see cells coming out. We're shipping them to the customer, now the factory is going through ISO audit, which will be a big step when it's done in the next few months. I think really the work now is producing these at volume and scale and getting the UPH and yields up.

我會快速拍攝一下，然後讓阿傑說話。我們對 Ajay 和他的團隊所取得的進展感到非常高興。我們看到細胞出來了。我們正在將它們運送給客戶，現在工廠正在接受 ISO 審核，這將是未來幾個月內完成的一大步。我認為現在真正的工作是大規模生產這些產品，並提高UPH和產量。

I guess maybe Ajay can comment some more.

我想也許 Ajay 可以發表更多評論。

Absolutely, Raj. So yeah, the proof points, obviously, are yields and how fast can we ramp on this line. The line is qualified. There is really no technological bottleneck, if you will. We are doing this with different material sets. As Raj pointed out, EX-1M and EX-2M at the same time, depending on what the customers are needing in terms of performance, which one is more important for them versus the other.

當然，拉傑。是的，顯然，證明點是產量以及我們能以多快的速度提高這條生產線。線路合格。如果你願意的話，實際上不存在任何技術瓶頸。我們使用不同的材料組合來進行此項工作。正如 Raj 指出的那樣，EX-1M 和 EX-2M 同時存在，這取決於客戶在性能方面的需求，哪一個對他們來說更重要。

And therefore, working with all these materials and getting the yields higher, continuously learning and getting into the ramp mode. And yeah, we are well on our way for the ramp to happen in the second half, which is exactly when we are expecting some of these things to come to fruition in terms of customer qualifications.

因此，利用所有這些材料並提高產量，需要不斷學習並進入提升模式。是的，我們已經在下半年順利成長，這正是我們期待在客戶資格方面取得成果的時候。

One other thing I'll add is as we see this demand now, these are for slightly different shaped cells, so big cell of certain form factor, a small cell like this. So some of the work Ajay's team is doing is how to get the cycle time down so we can quickly make different cells on the same machine, but what's the tooling to be done. That's going to be something that we'll continue to work on.

我要補充的另一件事是，正如我們現在看到的這種需求，這些是針對形狀略有不同的電池，因此特定形狀的大電池，以及像這樣的小電池。因此，Ajay 團隊正在進行的一些工作是如何縮短循環時間，以便我們能夠在同一台機器上快速製造不同的單元，但需要完成的工具是什麼。我們將持續為此而努力。

Derek Soderberg, Cantor.

德柏（Derek Soderberg），領唱。

Yeah. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the questions. Raj, did you say that you had two purchase orders from AR companies? I know the first one, you guys said you're going to commence shipments midway through this year. Is the second one for a commercially planned device? Was that for sample orders? And then just given the density benefit that you can deliver with these AR devices, what's the average selling price do you think you can get for this form factor?

是的。嘿，大家好。感謝您回答這些問題。Raj，你說你有兩份來自 AR 公司的採購訂單嗎？我知道第一個問題，你們說過將在今年年中開始出貨。第二個是用於商業計劃設備嗎？那是樣品訂單嗎？然後考慮到這些 AR 設備所能提供的密度優勢，您認為這種外形尺寸的平均售價是多少？

Yeah. Yes, we do have purchase order from both the customers. And again, we are in the process of getting the exact dimensions and making those exact dimensions because they're both slightly different in shape. The ASP premiums are actually very nice in this market because of the -- how much of -- how important the battery is to the life of the products.

是的。是的，我們確實有這兩位客戶的採購訂單。再次強調，我們正在獲取精確的尺寸並製作這些精確的尺寸，因為它們的形狀略有不同。由於電池對於產品壽命的重要性，在這個市場上，ASP 溢價實際上非常好。

I mean, we -- you probably see in investor deck we put some material on the advantages of our product versus what's commercially shipping. So you can see that that translates to a nice ASP premium. I can't exactly comment on the numbers, but we are quite pleased with that business.

我的意思是，您可能在投資者簡報中看到，我們提供了一些關於我們的產品相對於商業運輸產品的優勢的資料。因此您可以看到，這意味著不錯的 ASP 溢價。我無法具體評論數字，但我們對這項業務非常滿意。

And the other thing is our ability to make full packs. I mentioned this when we acquired Routejade company that this is going to be important to us and -- because when you make a full pack, there's also an ASP premium of instead of just selling the cell. That is something that also is playing out nicely, which is the reason I think I mentioned at that time why we acquired that company -- one of the reasons, in addition to the coating capability.

另一件事是我們製作全套包裝的能力。當我們收購 Routejade 公司時，我就提到了這一點，這對我們很重要，因為當你生產整組電池組時，還會有 ASP 溢價，而不僅僅是銷售電池。這也是正在順利進行的事情，這也是我當時提到的我們收購該公司的原因之一，除了塗層能力之外。

Thanks. That's helpful. And then just related to one of the first questions. When you guys want to add, say, high-volume Line number 2, can you talk about sort of in months how long it would take to procure and install kind of that second HVM Line 2? It feels like the demand for some of these AR devices could be coming in pretty soon here. How fast could you order a second high-volume line and turn it on?

謝謝。這很有幫助。這僅與第一個問題之一相關。當你們想要添加，比如說，高容量生產線 2 號時，您能否談談以幾個月為單位採購和安裝第二條 HVM 生產線 2 號需要多長時間？感覺對這些 AR 設備的需求可能很快就會出現。您能多快訂購第二條大容量生產線並投入營運？

So before we answer that, let me tell you this, the demand will come in next year, right? So again, we will make some cells and give it to them, but the qualification timeline takes the timeline it takes. So it's kind of important to understand we are talking about '26 demand now and we will plan capacity accordingly and Ajay is doing that.

所以在我們回答這個問題之前，讓我告訴你，需求會在明年出現，對嗎？因此，我們再次製造一些細胞並將其提供給它們，但資格時間表需要它所需的時間表。因此，了解我們現在談論的是 26 個需求非常重要，我們將相應地規劃產能，Ajay 正在這樣做。

Yeah. Just to add to that, as I mentioned earlier, right, we are taking the approach of taking all the long lead time items because not all the components that make up the line have the same amount of lead time. So there are some longer lead time items which we are working with our suppliers. We have started stockpiling them at their place on their dime, but they're taking the risk on us, which is really a good way of handling of how quickly you can set up this Line number 2 and then Line number 3.

是的。補充一點，正如我之前提到的，我們採取的是所有長交付週期產品的方法，因為並非組成生產線的所有組件都具有相同的交付週期。我們正在與供應商合作，生產一些交付週期較長的產品。我們已經開始用他們的錢在他們的地方儲存這些產品，但是他們把風險轉嫁給我們，這確實是一種很好的處理方式，可以讓你快速地建立第 2 條生產線，然後是第 3 條生產線。

And so we are trying to always look for ways of shrinking that timeline. The first one took whatever time it took. Second one will be significantly lesser, and our ability to quickly ramp that into the production is also going to improve over time.

因此，我們一直在嘗試尋找縮短該時間表的方法。第一個花了無論花費什麼時間。第二個成本會大大降低，我們快速投入生產的能力也會隨著時間的推移而提高。

Got it. Thanks, guys.

知道了。謝謝大家。

Gus Richard, Northland Capital Markets.

北國資本市場 (Northland Capital Markets) 的 Gus Richard。

Yeah, thanks for taking my questions. Just real quick on the production coming out of Qualcomm. It sounds like it's tailored to military applications in high rail. And I'm just curious, is it more of a standard lithium-ion battery? Or what sort of sets it apart from the military applications?

是的，感謝您回答我的問題。快速了解高通的產品狀況。聽起來它是為高鐵的軍事應用量身定制的。我很好奇，它更像是標準的鋰離子電池嗎？或者它與軍事應用有何區別？

Yeah. So the Routejade acquisition that we made is standard lithium-ion battery, except it's a high discharge rate battery. So for example, think about something that powers moving things, like drones and so on. So when you have a mechanical object that's moving, you need to discharge at a much higher rate. And that's one of the things they can do -- this part of company can do for us.

是的。因此，我們收購的 Routejade 是標準鋰離子電池，只不過它是一種高放電率電池。舉例來說，想像一下為移動物體提供動力的東西，例如無人機等等。因此，當你有一個移動的機械物體時，你需要以更高的速率放電。這是他們可以做的事情之一——公司這部分人可以為我們做的事情。

And they can also do different shape and size cells that can go into some of the consumer electronics. So they have two, three different variations of products that we can do there. The military ones are high rate, big cells.

他們還可以製造不同形狀和尺寸的電池，以用於一些消費性電子產品。所以他們有兩三種不同的產品可以讓我們生產。軍用的那種比率高，細胞大。

Got it. Very helpful. And then just on Line 1, you said that the UPH is 1,350. That's, I believe, an instantaneous throughput. Can you talk about capacity utilization with just one line? You can't commit that volume to your customers. How should we think about the utilization in the first year until Line 2 comes up and you can bring that up?

知道了。非常有幫助。然後就第 1 行而言，您說 UPH 為 1,350。我相信，這就是瞬時吞吐量。您能用一句話談談產能利用率嗎？您無法向您的客戶承諾該數量。我們應該如何考慮在 2 號線投入使用之前第一年的利用率，您能提出這個問題嗎？

Yeah, good question. That'll depend on how the -- how quickly the qualification cycles are running through with several customers now in play. And we -- I mean, a good manufacturing company would look at it in terms of how much are you filling the line up so that you can start ordering those longer lead time items first followed by the other components to make up the line. So it's all a gradual feedback directly coming from our customers' qualifications actually. So that's where I would leave it.

是的，好問題。這將取決於目前有幾家客戶參與，資格認證週期的運行速度有多快。而且我們 — — 我的意思是，一家好的製造公司會從生產線的填充量的角度來看待這個問題，以便您可以首先開始訂購那些交貨時間較長的產品，然後再訂購生產線上的其他部件。因此，這其實都是直接來自於我們客戶資質的逐步回饋。所以我就把它留在那裡了。

Got it. Thanks so much.

知道了。非常感謝。

Sean Milligan, Janney.

肖恩·米利根，珍妮。

Hey, Raj. Thanks for taking my questions. Can you talk to like CapEx outlook for this year as it stands today? What do you expect CapEx to be? And then sort of underlying assumptions there in terms of how many lines are you ordering long lead time items for?

嘿，拉傑。感謝您回答我的問題。能談談今年的資本支出前景嗎？您預計資本支出是多少？那麼，對於您要為多少條生產線訂購長交貨期產品，有哪些基本假設？

Yeah. We have -- we don't really give the full guidance for the year, but maybe, Kristina, if you want to comment on that a little bit.

是的。我們並沒有真正給出今年的完整指導，但克里斯蒂娜，如果你想對此發表一點評論的話，也許可以。

So as Raj said, a lot of the long lead time items are ordered by our equipment vendors and on their dime due to relationship and whatnot. But for 2025 CapEx, we have about between $30 million to $40 million currently budgeted.

正如 Raj 所說，許多交貨週期較長的物品都是由我們的設備供應商訂購的，並且由於關係等原因由他們承擔費用。但對於 2025 年的資本支出，我們目前的預算約為 3,000 萬至 4,000 萬美元。

Okay. And then, Ajay, on the next line, like Line 2, do those economics fit the slide deck? The 1,650 UPH that's in the back of the slide deck, is that sort of the expectation on the next lines?

好的。然後，阿傑，下一行，例如第 2 行，這些經濟學內容是否適合投影片？幻燈片背面提到的 1,650 UPH 是下一行所期望的嗎？

Yes, that's correct. The UPH is always measured in equivalent of a cell size. So as Raj alluded, we are now obviously getting cell sizes which are significantly larger, which is really good for the value that we bring and the ASP and everything attached to that. But yes, 1,650 is the goal for ADR low-sized cell, which we have talked about. So it'll vary based on which size cell it goes through the line.

是的，正確。UPH 總是以細胞大小來衡量。正如 Raj 所提到的，我們現在顯然獲得了更大的電池尺寸，這對於我們帶來的價值以及 ASP 以及與之相關的一切都非常有利。但是是的，1,650 是 ADR 小型電池的目標，我們已經討論過了。所以它會根據通過線路的細胞大小而改變。

Okay. And then, Raj, I know still qualifying some of those early samples with the cell phone customers. But there's a slide in your presentation that talks about the top cell phone OEMs. The average model size is around 3.5 million units per year. Just curious, like in the two that you're in advanced stages with, do you have visibility into the potential models that you'd be in? And just curious if those programs are expected to be like below, at, above that kind of average model size that's mentioned in that slide.

好的。然後，拉吉，我知道我們仍在與手機客戶一起驗證一些早期樣品。但是您的簡報中有一張幻燈片討論了頂級手機 OEM。平均模式規模約為每年350萬台。只是好奇，就像您處於高級階段的兩個模型一樣，您是否對自己將要採用的潛在模型有了清晰的認識？我只是好奇這些程式是否預計會低於、等於或高於幻燈片中提到的平均模型大小。

Yeah. So one of them, like I said, we actually got the specific cell dimension so we have a little bit more visibility into where it would possibly go. But one thing to remember is that in the Android market that we're going after initially, each cell phone model, when you talk about a model, the model has a certain, how should I say, features for you, if you will -- certain camera, certain display, certain processor, certain memory configuration and so on. But there are variants within that. For example, the customers may choose to take that model, change some software features, and ship that into India, for example. And maybe change a few other things, ship that into Europe. And maybe some other features and ship that into the Gulf.

是的。因此，正如我所說，其中之一我們實際上獲得了具體的單元尺寸，因此我們對它可能去往的位置有了更多的了解。但有一點要記住，在我們最初瞄準的 Android 市場中，每款手機型號，當你談論一款型號時，該型號都有特定的，怎麼說呢，功能，如果你願意的話——特定的相機、特定的顯示器、特定的處理器、特定的內存配置等等。但其中也存在一些變體。例如，客戶可以選擇採用該型號，更改一些軟體功能，然後將其運送到印度。也許再改變一些其他的東西，然後將其運往歐洲。也許還有一些其他的功能，並將其運送到海灣。

So each -- so it's -- we don't have clarity yet on which exactly product we will be in. And that will come in time as we get closer to production and that's typical. And I've done this many, many years. That's quite typical on how it works so that clarity will come closer to production time.

所以每個—所以—我們還不清楚我們將會涉及哪款產品。隨著我們越來越接近生產，這將會及時實現，這是很正常的。我已經這樣做很多年了。這是非常典型的工作方式，因此清晰度將更接近生產時間。

Okay. And then just one last one, can you remind everyone like how the sales cycle works for cell phones? So like you start to get in qualification kind of early in the year and that's for commercial volumes that ship later in the year. Is that sort of the same thought process for 2026 also or because you're sampling more cells in 2025, would you be in earlier programs in 2026? I'm just trying to understand maybe cadence in terms of seasonality.

好的。最後一個問題，可以提醒大家手機的銷售週期是怎麼樣的嗎？因此，您在年初就開始獲得資格，這是為了在年底發貨的商業量。對於 2026 年是否也有同樣的想法，或者因為您在 2025 年採集了更多細胞樣本，所以您是否會參與 2026 年的早期計劃？我只是想了解季節性的節奏。

Yeah, so good question. So just for -- I mean, since I get this question quite a bit, I'll just talk one more time about how this works. We typically work with the customers to get from them requirements on what this particular product and the launch timing is. Like, for example, in 2024, we talked to them about what's the kind of phone model that would launch in late 2025. And we get requirements in terms of cycle life, energy density, in terms of size, in terms of fast charge capability, and so on.

是的，這個問題問得好。所以只是為了——我的意思是，因為我經常被問到這個問題，所以我將再講一次這是如何運作的。我們通常與客戶合作，從他們那裡了解該特定產品的要求以及發佈時間。例如，在 2024 年，我們和他們討論了 2025 年底會推出什麼樣的手機型號。我們對循環壽命、能量密度、尺寸、快速充電能力等方面都有要求。

At the same time, they give us these requirements. They're also working on what processor they should pick, how much memory should it have, what display they're using, what camera they should use. And we give them a certain standard size cell, the cell that we've made internally. They test them and then they extrapolate from that, what that performance will look like and what performance they need when they fix all the other components in the phone, right?

同時，他們也給我們提出了這些要求。他們也正在研究該選擇什麼樣的處理器、應該擁有多大記憶體、使用什麼樣的顯示器、應該使用什麼樣的相機。我們為他們提供特定標準尺寸的電池，即我們內部製造的電池。他們對其進行測試，然後據此推斷，當手機中所有其他組件都修好後，其性能會是什麼樣的，以及需要什麼樣的性能，對嗎？

And then they give us the exact dimensions of the cell, which is what we just got now. And then we make that cell, and we give it to them and then they test it along with all the other components which are now frozen. And if everything passes and everything looks good, then they give us a purchase order to make multiple volume production of that cell.

然後他們為我們提供了細胞的精確尺寸，​​這就是我們現在剛剛得到的。然後我們製造出那個細胞，把它交給他們，然後他們把它與現在凍結的所有其他組件一起進行測試。如果一切順利，而且一切看起來都很好，他們就會給我們一份採購訂單，以對該電池進行多批次生產。

Now that one particular cell could now go into multiple models in '25 and in '26, too. So it's not like it's only stops at '25. Because like I mentioned, there could be different phone models that can be launched in different parts of the world. And that could continue through '26, for example. And then when they start thinking about what's going to launch in '26, if there are some changes to that cell, they'll give us those and we start working on them.

現在，一個特定的單元可以進入'25 和'26 的多個模型中。所以它並不是只在 '25 停止。因為正如我所提到的，可能會在世界不同地區推出不同的手機型號。例如，這種情況可能會持續到26年。然後，當他們開始考慮在 26 年要推出什麼產品時，如果該單元有一些變化，他們會將這些變化提供給我們，然後我們就開始研究它們。

So this is going to be a continuum, if you will. It's not like we make this cell, it goes '25, done. We make another cell, it goes '26, done. It doesn't work like that. It's usually a continuum. There will be some overlap between the phone launches based on the regions they're launching, based on the volume they're launching. That's typically how this works.

所以如果你願意的話，這將是一個連續體。這並不是說我們製造了這個單元，它運行了'25，就完成了。我們製作另一個單元，它變成‘26’，完成。它不是那樣工作的。它通常是一個連續體。根據發布手機的地區和數量，手機發佈時間會有些重疊。這就是它的典型工作方式。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Dr. Raj Talluri for closing remarks.

（操作員指示）目前沒有其他問題。最後，我想請 Raj Talluri 博士作最後發言。

Yeah. Thank you very much for your interest and following us. We'll get back to you next quarter. Thank you.

是的。非常感謝您對我們的關注和關注。我們將在下個季度回覆您。謝謝。