Enovix Corp (ENVX) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Enovix Corporation third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's program will be recorded. And now I would like to introduce your host for today's program, Robert Lahey, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加 Enovix Corporation 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明） 提醒一下，今天的節目將會錄製。現在我想介紹一下今天節目的主持人，投資者關係主管 Robert Lahey。請繼續，先生。

Thank you. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Enovix Corporation's third quarter 2024 financial results conference call. With us today are President and Chief Executive Officer, Dr. Raj Talluri; Chief Financial Officer, Farhan Ahmad; and Chief Operating Officer, Ajay Marathe. Raj and Farhan will provide an overview, and then we'll take your questions. After the Q&A session, we'll conclude our call.

謝謝。大家好，歡迎參加 Enovix 公司 2024 年第三季財務業績電話會議。今天與我們在一起的有總裁兼執行長 Raj Talluri 博士；財務長 Farhan Ahmad；和首席營運長 Ajay Marathe。Raj 和 Farhan 將提供概述，然後我們將回答您的問題。問答環節結束後，我們將結束通話。

Before we continue, let me kindly remind you that we released our third quarter 2024 shareholder letter after the market closed today. It's available on our website at ir.enovix.com. A replay of this video call will be available later today on the Investor Relations page of our website. Please note that the shareholder letter, press release and this conference call all contain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties.

在繼續之前，請允許我提醒您，我們在今天收盤後發布了 2024 年第三季股東信。您可以在我們的網站 ir.enovix.com 上找到它。今天晚些時候，我們網站的投資者關係頁面將提供該視訊通話的重播。請注意，股東信函、新聞稿和本次電話會議均包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在風險和不確定性。

These forward-looking statements are based on current expectations and may differ materially from actual future events or results due to a variety of factors. For a discussion of those factors that could affect our future financial results and business, please refer to the disclosure in today's shareholder letter and our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

這些前瞻性陳述是基於目前的預期，可能由於多種因素而與未來實際事件或結果有重大差異。有關可能影響我們未來財務表現和業務的因素的討論，請參閱今天的股東信中的揭露以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。

All of our statements are made as of today, October 29, 2024, and based on information currently available to us. We can give no assurance that these statements will prove to be correct, and we do not intend and undertake no duty to update these statements except as required by law.

我們的所有聲明均截至今天，即 2024 年 10 月 29 日，並基於我們目前掌握的資訊。我們不能保證這些陳述將被證明是正確的，除非法律要求，否則我們不打算也不承擔更新這些陳述的義務。

During this call, we will also discuss non-GAAP financial measures, which are not prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. You can find a reconciliation of the GAAP financial measures to non-GAAP financial measures in our shareholder letter, which is posted on the Investor Relations page of our website.

在本次電話會議中，我們也將討論非公認會計準則財務指標，這些指標不符合公認會計原則。您可以在我們的股東信中找到 GAAP 財務指標與非 GAAP 財務指標的調整表，該信函發佈在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上。

I'll now turn the call over to Raj to begin. Raj?

現在我將把電話轉給拉傑開始。拉傑？

Thank you, Rob, and thank you all for joining us today. For our format today, I'll start with a recap of our recent results. Some of our recent milestones and before I turn it over to Farhan for the financials and the outlook. I'll have a few closing comments, and then we'll take your questions.

謝謝你，羅布，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。對於我們今天的形式，我將首先回顧我們最近的結果。我們最近的一些里程碑，在我將其交給法爾漢了解財務狀況和前景之前。我將發表一些結束語，然後我們將回答您的問題。

Now we had a very productive second quarter. To recap our recent achievements, First, we delivered a Q3 revenue of $4.3 million, above the midpoint of our forecast. We grew 13% sequentially and expect even further growth in the Q4. Second, we opened our Fab2 in Malaysia. This was a really huge deal for us because numerous leading smartphone and IoT companies tour our facility, they're impressed by the quality of our first production lines and now they are even more confident in our manufacturing capability.

現在我們的第二季非常有成效。回顧我們最近的成就，首先，我們第三季的營收為 430 萬美元，高於我們預測的中點。我們環比成長 13%，預計第四季將進一步成長。其次，我們在馬來西亞開設了 Fab2。這對我們來說確實是一件大事，因為許多領先的智慧型手機和物聯網公司參觀了我們的工廠，他們對我們第一條生產線的品質印象深刻，現在他們對我們的製造能力更加有信心。

Third, I'm pleased to announce that we executed a new agreement with a leading global smartphone OEM for the qualification of our battery cells and the late '25 launch of one of their fund models, and this would mark our first official entry into our smartphone market.

第三，我很高興地宣布，我們與一家全球領先的智慧型手機OEM 簽署了一項新協議，以確保我們的電池合格，並於25 年末推出他們的一款基金型號，這將標誌著我們首次正式進入我們的市場。

Now ramping Fab2 on schedule and showing it to prospective customers was a very pivotal accomplishment for the company, which until now only made batteries from here in R&D headquarters in California. It's also a significant accomplishment that we shipped EX-1M samples from Fab2 just weeks after the grand opening, consistent with our plan.

現在，Fab2 按計劃投產並將其展示給潛在客戶對該公司來說是一項非常關鍵的成就，此前該公司僅在加州的研發總部生產電池。這也是一項重大成就，我們在開業幾週後就從 Fab2 發貨了 EX-1M 樣品，這與我們的計劃一致。

Now the Agility line is fully operational, and the initial yields and the agility line are comparable to the final levels we achieved with our first client in California and with improvements expected from there. The high-volume line is also on track to complete site accepts and testing in 2024 and which is consistent with our time line and start mass production for smartphones, IoT customers in late '25.

現在，敏捷生產線已全面投入運營，初始產量和敏捷生產線與我們在加州的第一個客戶實現的最終水平相當，並且預計會有所改善。這條大批量生產線也預計在 2024 年完成現場驗收和測試，這與我們的時間表一致，並在 25 年末開始為智慧型手機、物聯網客戶進行大量生產。

Now we are thrilled to announce today that we formalized a strategic partnership with a second leading smartphone OEM. Now this agreement outlines the key milestones that we are working together with them and upon meeting them, we are set to enter the smartphone market in '25 with high-volume production.

現在，我們很高興地宣布，我們與第二家領先的智慧型手機 OEM 正式建立了戰略合作夥伴關係。現在，該協議概述了我們與他們合作的關鍵里程碑，一旦實現這些目標，我們將在 25 年進入智慧型手機市場並進行大量生產。

I've said many times before that our first commercial smartphone deal would be the hardest. We still have a lot of work to do in passing the customer qualification process and ramping high volume line, but we're doing that together with our customer, and we expect with our first expected customer.

我之前多次說過，我們的第一筆商業智慧型手機交易將是最困難的。在透過客戶資格流程和擴大大批量生產線方面，我們還有很多工作要做，但我們正在與我們的客戶一起做這件事，我們期望與我們的第一個預期客戶一起做。

Now to further bolster our 2025 sales pipeline, we aligned on a production schedule with a leading IoT customer, which includes a mass production purchase order. This partnership as well as the progress we're making on the EV space underscores our ability to diversify into high-value sectors beyond just smartphones.

現在，為了進一步加強我們 2025 年的銷售管道，我們與一家領先的物聯網客戶協調了生產計劃，其中包括大量生產採購訂單。這種合作夥伴關係以及我們在電動車領域的進展突顯了我們多元化發展到智慧型手機以外的高價值領域的能力。

Now I'm very pleased with our recent commercial success and believe the opening of Fab2 has been a very helpful contributor. We're also getting benefit from the recent surge in AI-enabled smartphones, which is further validating our strategy and driving significant pull for our products and the transformatory leap in energy that we can provide.

現在，我對我們最近的商業成功感到非常高興，並相信 Fab2 的開業是一個非常有幫助的貢獻者。我們也從最近支持人工智慧的智慧型手機的激增中受益，這進一步驗證了我們的策略，並推動了我們產品的巨大拉動以及我們可以提供的能源的變革性飛躍。

Now last quarter, I mentioned that 4,000 million to 5,000 million are battery in smartphones in our pockets today could soon go to more than 6,000 million ports and beyond due to AI. Here, we are just three months later, I report to you that our customers are now asking us about 7,000 million for smartphone batteries.

上個季度，我提到，由於人工智慧，我們口袋裡的智慧型手機中的 40 億到 50 億塊電池很快就會被使用到超過 60 億個連接埠甚至更多。在這裡，僅僅三個月後，我向您報告，我們的客戶現在向我們索取約 70 億美元的智慧型手機電池。

Now why is this important? This is important because the smartphone size has not increased. So the industry will need higher energy density batteries to fit this increased capacity in the same space, which bodes very well for a company like Enovix, which works on producing high energy density batteries.

為什麼這很重要？這很重要，因為智慧型手機的尺寸並沒有增加。因此，該行業將需要更高能量密度的電池來適應相同空間內增加的容量，這對於像 Enovix 這樣致力於生產高能量密度電池的公司來說是個好兆頭。

As I mentioned earlier, we've already started shipping EX-1M. Now as the needs of our customers continue to increase, we're also launching EX-2M as fast as possible. As I mentioned before, EX-2M will increase their energy density on top of EX-1M. The first sample shipments to select customers of EX-2M are scheduled in Q4, and these are key also to accelerating our time line to full-scale mass production in '25 and beyond.

正如我之前提到的，我們已經開始運送 EX-1M。現在，隨著客戶需求的不斷增加，我們也盡快推出 EX-2M。正如我之前提到的，EX-2M 將在 EX-1M 的基礎上增加其能量密度。首批樣品定於第四季度向 EX-2M 的選定客戶發貨，這對於加快我們在 25 年及以後實現全面量產的時間至關重要。

We also completed the product definition and the road map beyond EX-2M, reaffirming our commitment to pushing the boundaries of innovation and delivering industry-leading solutions to our customers across a wide range of industries.

我們也完成了 EX-2M 以外的產品定義和路線圖，重申了我們致力於突破創新界限並為各行業客戶提供行業領先解決方案的承諾。

With that, I'll turn it over to Farhan for the financials.

有了這個，我會將其交給法爾漢處理財務事宜。

Thanks, Raj. All the relevant financial information is in the quarterly report in the shareholder letter. So I'll keep my comments short. For Q3, we delivered revenue of $4.3 million, which was above the midpoint of our guidance range. Non-GAAP EBITDA came in at a loss of $21.6 million, above our guidance of a range of loss of $23 million to $29 million.

謝謝，拉傑。所有相關財務資訊均包含在股東信中的季度報告中。所以我會簡短地發表我的評論。第三季度，我們實現了 430 萬美元的收入，高於我們指導範圍的中點。非 GAAP EBITDA 虧損 2,160 萬美元，高於我們指引的 2,300 萬美元至 2,900 萬美元的虧損範圍。

And non-GAAP EPS came in at a loss of $0.17 and at the high end of our guidance range of loss of $0.17 to $0.23. We ended the quarter with roughly $200 million of cash and equivalents. And we had CapEx of about $19 million and $31 million of cash used in operations during the third quarter. Our balance sheet is strong and gives us runway well into 2026.

非 GAAP 每股盈餘虧損 0.17 美元，在我們指引虧損範圍 0.17 至 0.23 美元的上限。本季結束時，我們擁有約 2 億美元的現金和等價物。第三季我們的資本支出約為 1,900 萬美元，營運中使用的現金為 3,100 萬美元。我們的資產負債表強勁，為我們進入 2026 年奠定了基礎。

Now turning to the guidance. For the fourth quarter of 2024. We expect revenue in the range of $8 million to $10 million and adjusted EBITDA loss of $19 million to $25 million and non-GAAP EPS loss of $0.17 to $0.23.

現在轉向指導。2024 年第四季。我們預計收入在 800 萬美元至 1000 萬美元之間，調整後 EBITDA 損失為 1900 萬美元至 2500 萬美元，非 GAAP 每股收益損失為 0.17 美元至 0.23 美元。

Now I'll turn back to Raj to close.

現在我將回到 Raj 來結束演講。

Thank you, Farhan. As you can see, we made substantial progress in the third quarter by opening our Fab2, securing our most meaningful customer commitment to date and the next major milestone this quarter on our journey to scale will be completing the site acception testing of our high-volume line and shipping the first samples of EX2 to our customers.

謝謝你，法爾漢。正如您所看到的，我們在第三季度通過開設Fab2 取得了實質性進展，確保了我們迄今為止最有意義的客戶承諾，本季度我們規模化之旅的下一個重要里程碑將是完成我們大批量的現場驗收測試生產線並將第一批 EX2 樣品運送給我們的客戶。

With that, we can go into questions. Operator?

有了這個，我們就可以提出問題了。操作員？

We will now begin the Q&A session. Please note that this call is being recorded Before we go live to questions, we are going to read the two most highly voted questions submitted by shareholders ahead of this call during the call registration. The first question is, what yields are we currently seeing on the Agility line? And when can we expect an update on HVM line yields?

我們現在開始問答環節。請注意，本次電話會議正在錄音 在我們開始提問之前，我們將閱讀股東在本次電話會議之前在電話會議登記期間提交的兩個投票最高的問題。第一個問題是，我們目前在敏捷線上看到的報酬率是多少？我們什麼時候可以期待 HVM 生產線產量的更新？

Yeah. Ajay, do you want to take that?

是的。阿傑，你想要那個嗎？

Yeah, sure. So as we communicated with you all, the Agility Line completed the SAT during the quarter, last quarter. And we brought up the agility line on the EX-1M technology node at yields a little bit higher than where we left off here, closer to 80%.

是的，當然。因此，正如我們與大家溝通的那樣，Agility Line 在上個季度的本季完成了 SAT 考試。我們在 EX-1M 技術節點上提高了敏捷性，其收益率比我們在此停止的位置略高，接近 80%。

And the HVM line, which has identical kernels to the agility line is in SAT mode right now in Fab2, and there's no reason to expect anything lower than what the Agility line was able to do. So we feel pretty good about the yields, how they're ramping.

HVM 系列與 Agility 系列具有相同的內核，目前在 Fab2 中處於 SAT 模式，因此沒有理由期望它會比 Agility 系列的性能低。因此，我們對收益率及其成長方式感到非常滿意。

Yeah. Thank you, Ajay.

是的。謝謝你，阿傑。

The second question is understand Enovix proprietary process is patent protected where applicable, but how long of a first-mover advantage does Enovix have before you see competition begin utilizing silicon and batteries on a larger scale once Enovix and customers prove the technology works and there is a demand market. And as your arrangement with Group 14 technologies afford Enovix exclusivity in the markets where you utilize their SCC-55 material.

第二個問題是了解Enovix 專有製程在適用的情況下受到專利保護，但是一旦Enovix 和客戶證明該技術有效且存在，在您看到競爭對手開始更大規模地使用矽和電池之前，Enovix 的先發優勢還能維持多久需求市場。由於您與 Group 14 技術的安排使 Enovix 在您使用其 SCC-55 材料的市場中擁有排他性。

Yeah. Thank you for that question. Yes, as you alluded to, we have a patent protected process with significant amount of patents and more importantly, significant amount of trade secrets and industry know-how in not only how to manufacture higher entry density batteries, but also the machines that actually we use to manufacture the batteries.

是的。謝謝你提出這個問題。是的，正如您所提到的，我們擁有受專利保護的流程，擁有大量專利，更重要的是，我們擁有大量商業機密和行業專有技術，不僅涉及如何製造更高密度的電池，還涉及我們實際製造的機器。

As you -- as I have mentioned before, we first designed the machines and the design -- the machines then make the battery. So our intellectual property is in both areas. Our unique architecture of manufacturing the batteries allows us to use 100% active silicon. We are the first ones to use 100% active silicon batteries in this consumer market, and we're really excited by that accomplishment that the team has made.

正如我之前提到的，我們首先設計機器和設計——機器然後製造電池。所以我們的智慧財產權在這兩個領域。我們獨特的電池製造架構使我們能夠使用 100% 活性矽。我們是該消費市場中第一家使用 100% 活性矽電池的公司，我們對團隊所取得的成就感到非常興奮。

The competition that we have seen has been mostly people who use 5%, 10% in the best case of SIC or SIO, some pharma silicon material doped on top of graphite. If you use any more than that, what we have seen is the battery continues to swell up and the swelling cannot be controlled by traditional manufacturing process. We have a unique advantage there and that is why we feel strongly that we have this unique value proposition.

我們看到的競爭大多是使用 5%、10%（最好是 SIC 或 SIO）的人，這是一些摻雜在石墨上的製藥矽材料。如果使用超過這個數量，我們會看到電池繼續膨脹，並且傳統製造流程無法控制膨脹。我們在那裡擁有獨特的優勢，這就是為什麼我們強烈地認為我們擁有這種獨特的價值主張。

As far as our agreement on -- with Group 14, we -- we're working with Group14, they provide great anode material. We also work with other suppliers of anode material that use silicon and some form of carbon. So we have multiple suppliers that we use based on the market best of the end products and based on the requirements of the battery. So thank you.

就我們與 Group 14 達成的協議而言，我們正在與 Group 14 合作，他們提供了很好的陽極材料。我們也與其他使用矽和某種形式的碳的陽極材料供應商合作。因此，我們有多個供應商，我們根據市場上最好的最終產品和電池的要求來使用。所以謝謝你。

(Operator Instructions) Ananda Baruah, Loop Capital Markets.

（操作員指令）Ananda Baruah，Loop Capital Markets。

Yeah. Hey guys. Thanks a lot. Yeah congrats on the new announcement. Two, if I could. I guess I'll just start with the -- is really a clarification around the announcements, Raj. So is the announced volume customer for December quarter 2025, is that the new customer? Is that the new relationship? Or is that the prior relationship?

是的。嘿夥計們。多謝。是的，祝賀新公告。兩個，如果可以的話。我想我會從——實際上是對公告的澄清開始，拉吉。那麼，2025 年 12 月季度公佈的大量客戶是新客戶嗎？這就是新的關係嗎？或者說這就是之前的關係？

Yeah. This is a new customer that we announced today. There is a commitment on the agreement that we made that once the batteries as -- that we jointly agreed to that once the past the qualification commitment to launch in next year. The other customers we work with are also well along the way, and we hope to get more as the year goes by just proving that the value of our technology is there for multiple customers in the smartphone market.

是的。這是我們今天宣布的新客戶。我們在協議中做出了一項承諾，一旦電池通過，我們就共同同意，一旦通過資格承諾，將在明年推出。與我們合作的其他客戶也一路走來，我們希望隨著時間的推移，透過證明我們的技術對智慧型手機市場上的多個客戶的價值而獲得更多。

I got it. I got it. That's very helpful. And EX-2M, can you remind us which batteries you'll be going to market with next year at volume, EX-1M, EX-2M if it goes, if everything goes well, once you start getting samples out.

我得到了它。我得到了它。這非常有幫助。EX-2M，您能否提醒我們明年您將批量推出哪些電池，EX-1M，EX-2M（如果一切順利的話），一旦您開始拿出樣品。

Yeah. As I mentioned, EX-1M is a battery that we sample to our customers and people like the performance of the product. People like what they're seeing. They're giving us some feedback on things to tweak and update to better fit those particular smartphone models, and we are continuing to work with the customers on that. EX-2M is our next technology, which we will be sampling this year, and we expect that to go to production and we are working hard to get that accelerated also.

是的。正如我所提到的，EX-1M 是我們向客戶提供樣品的電池，人們喜歡該產品的性能。人們喜歡他們所看到的。他們向我們提供了一些關於調整和更新的回饋，以更好地適應這些特定的智慧型手機型號，我們將繼續與客戶合作。EX-2M 是我們的下一項技術，我們將於今年提供樣品，我們預計該技術將投入生產，並且我們正在努力加快這一速度。

Got it. That's helpful. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.

知道了。這很有幫助。非常感謝。欣賞它。

Colin Rusch, Oppenheimer.

科林‧魯施，奧本海默。

Thanks so much guys. As you look at initial yields as well as the evolvement specs from your customers and what's happening with pricing on batteries, can you talk a little bit about how those pricing dynamics are trending and how that rolls through into your target gross margins that you've previously communicated?

非常感謝你們。當您查看初始產量以及客戶的發展規格以及電池定價的情況​​時，您能否談談這些定價動態的趨勢以及如何將其轉化為您的目標毛利率之前已經溝通過？

Yeah. We've started the pricing discussions now with our customers of these products that we're expecting to launch next year. We've also closed pricing with some of the other customers in the IoT space. We are continuing to be able to command a premium for our batteries because we provide much higher energy density, and that's very valuable in premium tier smartphones, which is where we are focused on where the value will provide translates into value for the end customers. So our customers are able to give us that price premium because they're able to take advantage of the higher battery density.

是的。我們現在已經開始與客戶討論我們預計明年推出的這些產品的定價。我們也與物聯網領域的其他一些客戶完成了定價。我們繼續能夠為我們的電池爭取溢價，因為我們提供更高的能量密度，這對於高階智慧型手機非常有價值，這就是我們關注的重點，即價值將轉化為最終客戶的價值。因此，我們的客戶能夠給我們這個溢價，因為他們能夠利用更高的電池密度。

So we feel pretty good about it. As for the gross margins, we've mentioned in the last quarter, our long-term gross margin profile that we expect to get to as we get to these prematerial smartphones in the 50% range. And at scale, we still expect to get to that.

所以我們對此感覺很好。至於毛利率，我們在上個季度提到過，當我們推出這些預材料智慧型手機時，我們預計我們的長期毛利率將達到 50% 的範圍。從規模上看，我們仍然期望能夠實現這一目標。

Okay. Fantastic. And then million (multiple speakers)

好的。極好的。然後是萬（多個發言者）

I just wanted to make sure that you got that it's cash gross margin of 50% plus not just gross margin. And we -- I mean, like Raj said, we expect that like we can get there. And already in the market, what you see very clearly is that the batteries which are higher energy density, get a premium.

我只是想確保您知道 50% 的現金毛利率加上不僅僅是毛利率。我們——我的意思是，就像拉傑所說，我們希望我們能夠實現這一目標。在市場上，您可以清楚地看到能量密度較高的電池會獲得溢價。

And so we expect to get a premium as well. This market is sensitive to energy density. And for us to achieve our long-term target, we have to get the EX-2M types energy density and beyond and get to scale, like we said, and we expect that we can get those margins once it's scale.

因此我們也期望獲得溢價。這個市場對能量密度很敏感。為了實現我們的長期目標，我們必須獲得 EX-2M 類型的能量密度及以上，並達到規模，正如我們所說，我們預計一旦規模化，我們就能獲得這些利潤。

Fantastic. I appreciate the clarification. And then in the guidance for fourth quarter and revenue in the $8 million to $10 million, can you just break out what's coming from (inaudible) and how much is coming off the Agility line and driving that revenue?

極好的。我很感謝您的澄清。然後，在第四季度的指導中，收入在 800 萬美元到 1000 萬美元之間，您能否透露一下具體的收入（聽不清楚）以及敏捷性線帶來的收入有多少？

Yes, it's mostly coming from (inaudible). There's a small amount that is coming from the Agility line. But at this time, we have mainly sampling and so the revenue contribution is mostly coming from Raj.

是的，大部分來自（聽不清楚）。有少量來自敏捷系列。但目前我們主要是採樣，因此收入貢獻主要來自 Raj。

Appreciate it.

欣賞它。

Will Peterson, JP Morgan.

威爾彼得森，摩根大通。

Yeah, hi, good afternoon and thanks for taking the questions and nice to see the additional announcements I wanted to ask about sampling. So I guess how many of the top smartphone OEMs have received the excellent samples thus far? What's the initial feedback then? I think you're looking to sample six out of the top eight. Have you sample the large Korean or the large US player? Are these pretty much all in China? And I guess, are there other form factors or device types that you also sample in the quarter with similar technology.

是的，嗨，下午好，感謝您提出問題，很高興看到我想詢問有關採樣的其他公告。那麼我猜到目前為止有多少家頂級智慧型手機原始設備製造商已經收到了優秀的樣品？那麼最初的回饋是什麼呢？我認為您希望從前八名中抽取六名。您是否曾經嘗試過韓國或美國的大型企業？這些幾乎都在中國嗎？我想，您在本季是否也使用類似技術採樣了其他外形尺寸或設備類型。

Yeah. The Agility line, as I mentioned, we just guided up and we have sampled some customers, and we'll continue to sample more and more. There's interest from many, many different people, and it's just that we are trying to make them as quickly as I can.

是的。正如我所提到的，敏捷產品線我們剛剛進行了引導，我們已經對一些客戶進行了採樣，並且我們將繼續對越來越多的客戶進行採樣。很多很多不同的人都有興趣，只是我們正在努力盡快製作它們。

I can really give you all the details of who are we sample to. It wouldn't be fair to say that. But I can assure you there's a lot of demand and we're trying to make them as quickly as we can. And maybe Farhan.

我真的可以向您提供我們向誰採樣的所有詳細資訊。這麼說是不公平的。但我可以向您保證，需求量很大，我們正在努力盡快生產。也許還有法爾漢。

No, I just want to say that we have sample, like we said, the two customers that we have disclosed are top five OEMs in smartphones. So they are not like some tiny company. There are companies that are very prominent in the premier tier smartphones in China. And so that's something that we can tell them.

不，我只是想說，我們有樣本，就像我們所說的，我們披露的兩個客戶是智慧型手機領域排名前五的原始設備製造商。所以他們不像一些小公司。有些公司在中國頂級智慧型手機領域非常突出。這就是我們可以告訴他們的事情。

Yeah, that's what we're prioritizing first because that's where we see our IS demand.

是的，這就是我們首先要優先考慮的事情，因為這就是我們看到 IS 需求的地方。

Okay. I guess on the commercial side, given your expectations with the new smartphone OEM announcement, plus, I guess, some early IoT production schedules. Can you give a sense of what kind of volumes you're expecting broadly in 2025? I mean are these -- can these be in the millions, I guess, in the smartphone side? Or how should we think about volumes?

好的。我想在商業方面，考慮到您對新智慧型手機 OEM 公告的期望，加上我想一些早期的物聯網生產計劃。您能否大致預期 2025 年的銷售量是多少？我的意思是，我猜，在智慧型手機方面，這些數量可能有數百萬嗎？或者我們應該如何考慮數量？

Yeah. It's very difficult to know exactly that. I think we will get more clarity as we move along. So as I mentioned last time, I think it's important to understand the process of how smartphone penetration happens, right?

是的。確切地知道這一點非常困難。我認為隨著我們的進展，我們會變得更加清晰。正如我上次提到的，我認為了解智慧型手機普及的過程很重要，對吧？

So we give them samples. They're going to test them, then we're going to get from them the specification of the exact battery size that they would like to use in the phone that's going to launch in late '25 and that will usually come beginning of '25. That's when they finalize what the model would be, what the size would be, then we make that sell in our high-volume manufacturing line.

所以我們給他們樣品。他們將對它們進行測試，然後我們將從他們那裡獲得他們希望在 25 年末推出的手機中使用的確切電池尺寸規格，通常會在 25 年初推出。那時他們最終確定了型號、尺寸，然後我們在我們的大批量生產線上進行銷售。

And they'll go through another set of series of tests within the phone model itself. And based on the performance and based on which model they are targeting and the volumes will vary based on which regions the launch and so on, at least initial ones. And then through '26, you'll see them build up and go into more and more models. That's typically how the smartphone ramp works. They start small, but they keep going up.

他們還將在手機型號本身內進行另一組系列測試。根據性能和他們的目標型號，銷量將根據發布的地區等而有所不同，至少是最初的地區。然後到 26 年，您將看到它們不斷建立並進入越來越多的模型。這就是智慧型手機斜坡的典型工作原理。他們從小處開始，但他們不斷上升。

Yeah. And the other thing I would just add, like Raj mentioned it earlier, the -- we have always felt that the hardest part of the ramp is getting the first customer. Once you have the first customer, you can -- your value proposition to customer changes. Before that, the risk for customers is Hey, this is a battery that nobody else is using. And I -- if I use it and something goes wrong, then there's a lot to lose.

是的。我要補充的另一件事是，就像 Raj 之前提到的那樣，我們一直認為斜坡最困難的部分是獲得第一個客戶。一旦你擁有了第一個客戶，你對客戶的價值主張就可以改變。在此之前，客戶面臨的風險是嘿，這是一個沒有其他人使用的電池。而我——如果我使用它並且出現問題，那麼就會損失很多。

If on the other hand, the best battery goes in a smartphone and it launches and it's proven, then the acquisition changes, then if you don't use it, then you're rest falling behind. So that's how we have approached and it's very encouraging to see at least one customer like has gotten over that hump and said that, a, we build the batteries in their form factor and if they meet the performance that is in line with the expectation.

另一方面，如果最好的電池被用在智慧型手機中，並且它推出並得到驗證，那麼收購就會發生變化，那麼如果你不使用它，那麼你就會落後。這就是我們的做法，非常令人鼓舞的是，至少有一位客戶已經克服了這一困難，並表示，a，我們按照其外形尺寸製造電池，並且它們的性能是否符合預期。

That's it. Thank you.

就是這樣。謝謝。

George Gianarikas, Canaccord.

喬治·賈納里卡斯，Canaccord。

Everyone. Thank you. For taking my questions. Just to maybe tack on to the previous question, to the extent you wanted to fill your revenue pipeline additionally for next year, given how late we are in 2024 and how long it takes to qualify and get designed in, is there still potential if customers come to you that are testing your samples to fill the 2025 revenue pipeline between now and the end of the year or wherever that deadline kind of meets?

每個人。謝謝。回答我的問題。只是為了解決上一個問題，如果您想額外填補明年的收入管道，考慮到 2024 年我們已經很晚了，以及獲得資格和設計所需的時間，如果客戶仍然有潛力來找您測試您的樣品，以填補從現在到年底之間或任何截止日期之前的2025 年收入管道嗎？

Yeah. It's all going to be based on how quickly the batteries that qualify in the customers' products, right? That's the -- most important thing people need to realize about this market. Batteries, people take very seriously when they put it in a device. And the qualification process is very strict and takes a certain amount of time. a lot more stringent than semiconductors, for example, because of safety and so on.

是的。這一切都取決於電池在客戶產品中合格的速度，對吧？這是人們需要認識到的關於這個市場的最重要的事情。當人們將電池放入設備中時，人們會非常重視它。而且資格審查的過程非常嚴格，需要一定的時間。比半導體嚴格很多，例如因為安全等等。

But I do believe that we do a lot of the testing in-house to make sure that what we're giving is what people really want and are safe. So if things go well, it could be much faster. But we are planning that will be late next year.

但我確實相信我們在內部進行了大量測試，以確保我們提供的是人們真正想要的並且是安全的。因此，如果一切順利的話，速度可能會快得多。但我們計劃在明年晚些時候進行。

But I will tell you one thing. First ones are the hardest with any customer because once you're supplier that is better in their system and they've launched some batteries with us, the following models come much faster and much quicker. So I think that's the most important thing.

但我要告訴你一件事。對於任何客戶來說，第一個是最困難的，因為一旦您成為他們系統更好的供應商並且他們與我們一起推出了一些電池，以下型號就會變得越來越快。所以我認為這是最重要的。

Maybe as a follow-up to that, does the same logic applied to additional IoT customers who could fill the revenue pipeline for next year?

或許作為後續行動，同樣的邏輯是否適用於其他可以填補明年收入管道的物聯網客戶？

In some IoT markets, the testing could be a little less stringent because, for example, in smartphones, customers want 800 to 1,000 cycles. So to test 800 to 1,000 cycles takes months because you can charge and discharge and charge and dispatch 800,000 times. Some IoT markets, people only want 500 cycles because maybe the product doesn't last that long, I'm not charged every day. There could be lesser. So in that one example where you could launch the product sooner because the testing cycle could be shorter.

在某些物聯網市場中，測試可能不太嚴格，因為例如在智慧型手機中，客戶需要 800 到 1,000 個週期。因此，測試 800 到 1,000 個週期需要數月時間，因為您可以充放電、充電 800,000 次。一些物聯網市場，人們只想要 500 個週期，因為也許產品不會持續那麼久，我不是每天都充電。可能還有更少。因此，在這個範例中，您可以更快地推出產品，因為測試週期可能會更短。

I'll give you another example. Like in a portable device like a smartphone, people do a lot of safety test like a drop test, like thermal abuse test and so on. If it's a larger portable electronics device, maybe that's not as important.

我再舉一個例子。就像智慧型手機這樣的便攜式設備一樣，人們會進行許多安全測試，例如跌落測試、熱濫用測試等。如果它是更大的便攜式電子設備，也許這就不那麼重要了。

So again, it all comes down to the nature of the device, the how many cycles it has to go through, how much testing the customers want to do and how the device is used. And that is what gets how quickly a product can go to production after we give them samples that qualify.

同樣，這一切都取決於設備的性質、它必須經歷多少週期、客戶想要做多少測試以及設備的使用方式。這就是我們向他們提供合格樣品後產品投入生產的速度。

Gus Richard, Northland.

格斯·理查德，北國。

Yes. Now that you're getting visibility into '25, given the mix you're expecting, what do you think the revenue potential for that line would be given the mix you're looking into both IoT and mobile?

是的。既然您已經了解了 25 年，考慮到您所期望的組合，您認為考慮到您正在研究的物聯網和行動組合，該產品線的收入潛力會是多少？

I think we mentioned before, our line is capable of running at 1,350 UPH and that is for large-sized batteries. We mentioned roughly like 9 million units at $10 is what we can get the line up to. But again, I think -- the gearing thing is not so much the line, but the gating thing to how much revenue is the customer qualification time lines. And we take that very seriously, and we spend a lot of time on making sure the batteries are safe and the customers to go through all their tests for the first time around when we are the new supplier. But once we get there, I think the revenue will be much, much quicker.

我想我們之前提到過，我們的生產線能夠以 1,350 UPH 的速度運行，而且這是針對大尺寸電池的。我們提到，我們可以以 10 美元的價格獲得大約 900 萬件。但我再次認為，槓桿問題不在於線路，而是收入多少的門控因素是顧客資格時間線。我們非常重視這一點，我們花了很多時間來確保電池安全，並確保客戶在我們成為新供應商時第一次接受所有測試。但一旦我們到達那裡，我認為收入將會快得多。

Okay. Got it. And then just thinking about the second line I think you had talked about that starting production maybe at the end of next year. And I was wondering if those plans are still on track.

好的。知道了。然後想想第二條生產線，我想您已經談到可能在明年年底開始生產。我想知道這些計劃是否仍在按計劃進行。

Yeah. The way we think about second line is this. Again, as we get more and more visibility through '25 as the customer qualifications are going, for example, if you're getting into a very high-volume phone, we'll know that. And when we know that we'll need to quickly start investing on the second line to build that up.

是的。我們對第二行的思考方式是這樣的。再說一遍，隨著我們在 25 年之前獲得越來越多的知名度，隨著客戶資格的不斷提高，例如，如果您要購買一款銷量非常大的手機，我們就會知道這一點。當我們知道我們需要快速開始投資第二條線來建立它。

And if it's a lower volume and then the next model is higher, we probably have a little bit more time. So the whole -- and also, we want to make sure that the second line is a much lower cost than the first line. Ajay and his team have some great ideas on how to not only cost reduce the line but make it faster. So all those things were taken into account. And we'll give you more color through 25, how we are building those lines in '26 and '27.

如果產量較低，而下一個型號的產量較高，我們可能還有更多時間。因此，總的來說，我們希望確保第二條生產線的成本比第一條生產線低得多。Ajay 和他的團隊對於如何不僅降低生產線成本而且提高生產速度提出了一些好主意。所以所有這些事情都被考慮在內。我們將在 25 年之前為您提供更多色彩，以及我們如何在 26 和 27 中建立這些生產線。

Anything else you want to add Ajay?

你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yeah. Just to add to what Brad just said, we are working learning from the line number 1, the high-volume line, where can we cost reduce this line significantly. And we already said that, that was the plan and we are executing to that plan now to substantially reduce the line number 2. So we don't want to rush into ordering Line 2, which is exactly replicate of Line 1 because then that would not be right. we need to cost reduce it, and we have a lot of good ideas, which are actually in the works right now before we order the second line.

是的。補充一下布拉德剛才所說的，我們正在努力從第 1 條生產線（大批量生產線）學習，我們可以在哪裡顯著降低這條生產線的成本。我們已經說過，這就是計劃，我們現在正在執行該計劃，以大幅減少第 2 行的數量。因此，我們不想急於訂購與第 1 行完全相同的第 2 行，因為那樣就不正確了。我們需要降低成本，我們有很多很好的想法，在我們訂購第二條生產線之前，這些想法實際上已經在進行中。

Yeah. And many of those concepts, which will be in the Line 2, which cost reduces the line have been tested through proofs of concepts, right, the POCs that we typically build. And yeah, we're finishing that up before we are ready to order the line too.

是的。其中許多概念將出現在 2 號線中，降低了生產線的成本，並且已經通過概念驗證進行了測試，對吧，我們通常構建的 POC。是的，在我們準備好訂購該生產線之前，我們正在完成這項工作。

Gabe Daoud, Cohen.

加布·達烏德，科恩。

Hey, everyone. Thanks for the time. Maybe just going back to the order, guys, could you maybe talk a little bit about what exactly has to happen from here into 4Q 2025? Obviously, they're going through a prolification process, but maybe some of the milestones that need to be achieved, whether it's specific targets on energy density or cycle life or cash charge capability. I know it may differ depending on specific model, but curious if there's any kind of brackets you could put around that?

嘿，大家。謝謝你的時間。也許只是回到順序，夥計們，你們能談談從現在到 2025 年第四季到底會發生什麼嗎？顯然，它們正在經歷一個增殖過程，但也許需要實現一些里程碑，無論是能量密度、循環壽命還是現金充電能力的具體目標。我知道它可能會根據特定型號而有所不同，但很好奇是否有任何類型的括號可以放在它周圍？

Yeah. So the important milestones from now in the first quarter, we will get the dimensions from the customer. And based on those dimensions, we will make the samples. 2Q, we will ship to them. And 3Q, we expect to get the final order. Raj, is that right? So those are the milestones there for you.

是的。因此，從現在開始的第一季的重要里程碑，我們將從客戶那裡獲得尺寸。根據這些尺寸，我們將製作樣品。2Q，我們將發貨給他們。第三季度，我們預計會收到最終訂單。拉傑，是這樣嗎？這些就是您的里程碑。

Yeah, we do have clear targets on energy density and fast charge and cycle. So we do have those targets from them, and we are working with them to deliver those to them.

是的，我們確實在能量密度以及快速充電和循環方面有明確的目標。因此，我們確實從他們那裡得到了這些目標，我們正在與他們合作以實現這些目標。

Okay. And then just a quick follow-up to that. So you expect to get the order in 2Q. And any kind of range on the specific models what they do in terms of shipments a year, just to try to get a sense of what the actual size of the order could look like?

好的。然後快速跟進。所以你預計在第二季收到訂單。就特定型號而言，他們每年的出貨量有哪些範圍，只是為了了解訂單的實際規模？

Yeah. I think I answered that question. It's hard to tell that now. We'll know more about it. I can tell you it's in the premium tier. That's where we provide most value. And we'll give you more color as we get closer.

是的。我想我回答了這個問題。現在很難說。我們將會了解更多相關資訊。我可以告訴你它是高級的。這就是我們提供最大價值的地方。當我們越來越接近時，我們會給你更多的顏色。

Okay. And then just a quick follow-up. Any comments on capital needs and maybe options to bring in additional capital in the door if you think you need it.

好的。然後進行快速跟進。關於資本需求的任何評論，以及如果您認為需要的話，可能會引入額外資本的選項。

Yeah. Thanks, Gabe. So you look like we have runway until 2026, and we will continue to evaluate more capital if we need it, like as I've mentioned in the past, we may need more capital to get to profitability. And so at some point, we have to raise capital. There are three avenues open for the company, the capital markets.

是的。謝謝，加布。所以你看起來我們有跑道到 2026 年，如果我們需要的話，我們將繼續評估更多的資本，就像我過去提到的那樣，我們可能需要更多的資本才能獲利。因此，在某個時候，我們必須籌集資金。該公司有三個途徑：資本市場。

The governments and the customers and we are pursuing all of them to see what makes the best sense for the company and provides the most efficient path with at least a lot of possible dilution while managing the risk for the business. So we will continue to evaluate that. And one big thing that we are very particular about is delivering on the milestones before we go and raise capital. So that's something that is also important to the company.

政府、客戶和我們正在尋求所有這些，以了解什麼對公司最有意義，並提供最有效的路徑，至少在管理業務風險的同時進行大量可能的稀釋。所以我們將繼續評估這一點。我們非常注重的一件大事是在我們籌集資金之前實現里程碑。所以這對公司來說也很重要。

Thanks, Farhan. Thanks, Raj.

謝謝，法爾漢。謝謝，拉傑。

Derek Soderberg, Cantor.

德里克·索德伯格，康托爾。

Yeah. Hey guys, thanks for taking the questions. Just regarding the Smart Glass opportunity for you guys. I'm curious how investors should think about the addressable market there maybe relative to smartphones. I don't know if you could talk about that. The size of that market today versus what maybe you guys expect over the next 10 years or so. And then from a content standpoint, Raj, it sounded like these smartphone customers want a pretty sizable battery cell. But for the smart glass devices, what sort of capacities are those devices targeting?

是的。嘿夥計們，感謝您提出問題。只是關於你們的智慧玻璃機會。我很好奇投資者應該如何考慮與智慧型手機相關的潛在市場。我不知道你能否談談這個問題。當今市場的規模與你們對未來 10 年左右的預期的市場規模的比較。從內容的角度來看，Raj，聽起來這些智慧型手機客戶想要一個相當大的電池。但對於智慧玻璃設備來說，這些設備的目標是什麼能力？

Yeah. Great question. So first, I wanted to kind of maybe add a little bit color to the requirements of the smart card glass market versus the smartphone market. When you look at this AR or VR, XR, as some people call it, or mixed reality headsets. The requirements on the draw on the battery is actually much, much higher than smartphones at any given point of time.

是的。很好的問題。首先，我想為智慧卡玻璃市場與智慧型手機市場的要求添加一些色彩。當你看到這個 AR 或 VR、XR（有些人稱之為 XR）或混合實境頭戴裝置。在任何給定時間點，對電池消耗的要求實際上比智慧型手機高得多。

And the reason for that is they don't have like standby mode like my phone is right now. These things are when they're on, they're on, fully on. And the processor is on, the memory is on, the display is on and your -- to get that real experience, the GPU is running full speed, so the power draw on the battery is very high, and the batteries last very short period of time. And they're also smaller because you got to put them inside the glasses.

原因是它們沒有像我的手機現在那樣的待機模式。這些東西是當它們開啟時，它們開啟，完全開啟。處理器、記憶體、顯示器都打開，為了獲得真實的體驗，GPU 全速運行，因此電池的功耗非常高，而且電池的持續時間很短的時間。而且它們也更小，因為你必須把它們放在眼鏡裡。

So it's a market that's very ideally suited for our kind of batteries, which deliver high energy density even in small form factor. So that's a market where we're excited by. I've seen some industry reports, these will be multiple tens of millions in the next few years, like 20 million, 30 million units is what I saw in out years. I think this market is still being built out.

因此，這個市場非常適合我們的電池，即使在很小的外形尺寸下也能提供高能量密度。所以這是一個令我們興奮的市場。我看過一些產業報告，未來幾年會是幾千萬台，像我幾年後看到的2000萬台、3000萬台。我認為這個市場仍在建設中。

I've seen demonstrations of the products we announced a customer, I think last quarter or the quarter before, I forget that was interested in our product, and then they are making custom sells for them, they look amazing. I think there's a lot of progress has been made in waveguide optics. So the experience you get is really, really good.

我看過我們向客戶宣布的產品演示，我想上個季度或前一個季度，我忘記了他們對我們的產品感興趣，然後他們為他們進行定制銷售，它們看起來很棒。我認為波導光學已經取得了許多進展。所以你獲得的體驗真的非常好。

And I expect a lot more customers to start making those products. Particularly with Gen AI, you can use speech to navigate now, and that's looking really, really good. And that also demands a lot of battle life. So in that sense, I think there'll be smaller batteries when they look like glasses, there could be bigger batteries when they look like AR, VR headset.

我預計會有更多的客戶開始生產這些產品。特別是有了 Gen AI，你現在可以使用語音進行導航，這看起來非常非常好。這也需要大量的戰鬥壽命。所以從這個意義上說，我認為當它們看起來像眼鏡時，將會有更小的電池，當它們看起來像 AR、VR 耳機時，可能會有更大的電池。

If there are form factors where the batteries on the side and you plug it in like a Vision Pro, those could be bigger batteries, if the batteries inside the head, they may be slightly different batteries. So I expect there to be multiple form factors of batteries in those kind of devices. But all of them have this need for high energy density in a small form factor, so something that suits well for us.

如果電池在側面並且像 Vision Pro 一樣插入，那麼這些電池可能會更大，如果電池在頭部內部，它們可能會略有不同。因此，我預計此類設備中的電池會有多種外形尺寸。但它們都需要小外形尺寸的高能量密度，因此非常適合我們。

So it's a market I'm quite possibly quite excited by. It may take a little bit longer to become a really large market, but I think it's a good market for us. And the ASP is a market where we can get a very nice ESP premium. And I think we are seeing that in our first batteries that we got it.

所以這是一個我很可能會非常興奮的市場。成為一個真正大的市場可能需要更長的時間，但我認為這對我們來說是一個很好的市場。ASP 是一個我們可以獲得非常好的 ESP 溢價的市場。我認為我們在第一批電池中看到了這一點。

Got it. And then as my follow-up, just regarding the announcement around the IoT customer. Some of the wording that's been used is mass production. I'm curious if you can sort of quantify what that means by mass production? Is it sort of 1 million battery units annually, something like that? Is there maybe something we should go off of? And then also, I'm curious if you can speak to which kind of device that IoT device is. Thanks.

知道了。然後作為我的後續行動，只是關於物聯網客戶的公告。使用的一些措辭是大規模生產。我很好奇你是否可以量化大規模生產意味著什麼？是不是每年 100 萬個電池之類的呢？有什麼我們該放棄的嗎？另外，我很好奇您是否可以談談物聯網設備是哪種類型的設備。謝謝。

Yeah. Unfortunately, we are not at liberty to speak wise. I know this is a question I get often which device, which customer. And I promise you, I'll work hard on trying to get names from the customers, so if we can mention them. Like you got to understand, when you're an early-stage company and when you get customer samples into these products, the customers are a little hesitant about really letting us speak to them, speak exactly what they are. But I would say that we are excited that it is something that will be in the market that you should be able to buy some of that. I know everyone is looking forward to that, but that's probably all we can say at this point in terms of who the customer is and how big it is.

是的。不幸的是，我們無權暢所欲言。我知道這是我常被問到的問題：哪個設備、哪個客戶。我向你保證，我會努力從客戶那裡獲取姓名，以便我們能夠提及他們。正如您所了解的，當您是一家早期公司，當您向客戶提供這些產品的樣品時，客戶對於是否真正讓我們與他們交談、準確地說出他們的情況有點猶豫。但我想說的是，我們很高興市場上會有這樣的東西，你應該可以買到其中的一些。我知道每個人都對此充滿期待，但就客戶是誰以及客戶規模而言，這可能是我們目前所能說的。

Sean Milligan, Janney.

肖恩·米利根，珍妮。

Hey, thanks for taking the question have been from another call, so sorry if you already answered this. But can you kind of go over the remaining CapEx to deliver the first auto line? And kind of maybe how that splits up into in terms of like what's the fourth quarter and what's the first half next year?

嘿，感謝您透過另一個電話提出這個問題，如果您已經回答了這個問題，我們深表歉意。但是您能否檢查一下剩餘的資本支出以交付第一條汽車生產線？大概如何分為第四季和明年上半年？

Yes. So most of the CapEx will be in this year. So we are funding for the line ourselves -- and we expect that the CapEx will be somewhere about $80 million to $90 million this year. And then for next year, we are expecting -- we are not expecting a lot for this line. it should mostly be done this year, maybe $5 million or so might carry on to next year. And then next year, the CapEx should be fairly small until we get to the Gen 2 line. And when we are ready to order that, then we may have an uptick. But overall, the most all- sorry, go ahead.

是的。因此，大部分資本支出將在今年進行。因此，我們自己為該生產線提供資金，預計今年的資本支出約為 8,000 萬至 9,000 萬美元。然後對於明年，我們對這條線的期望並不高。大部分應該在今年完成，也許 500 萬美元左右可能會持續到明年。然後明年，資本支出應該相當小，直到我們到達第二代產品線。當我們準備好訂購時，我們的銷量可能會上升。但總的來說，最抱歉的是，繼續吧。

How much of that is left to be spent of the $80 million to $90 million?

8,000 萬至 9,000 萬美元中還剩下多少可花？

No, that's like next year is only like about $5 million. So you can look at the CapEx for this year, and we are expecting like about $80 million to $90 million for the year.

不，明年的收入大約只有 500 萬美元。所以你可以看看今年的資本支出，我們預計今年的資本支出約為 8000 萬至 9000 萬美元。

Okay. And then as you start to order additional lines, how should we think about like the payment splits. How much is on order. How should we think about that cadence?

好的。然後，當您開始訂購額外的產品線時，我們應該如何考慮付款分割等問題。訂的多少錢。我們該如何看待這種節奏？

No. The next line is not on order. Again, like I said, we have been doing proofs of concepts of how to do this second line, a lot more economical and that's the only thing that we have spent on is POC is actually proof of concepts. And the way to think about Line 2 is the target we are expecting where Line 2 high-volume line, Line 2 will fall is roughly 60% of the Line 1, roughly.

不。下一行未訂購。再說一遍，就像我說的，我們一直在對如何做第二行進行概念證明，這更加經濟，這是我們唯一花在 POC 上的事情實際上是概念證明。考慮 2 號線的方式是我們預期 2 號線高流量線路的目標，2 號線將下降大約是 1 號線的 60%。

Yeah. So what we do is actually we'll manage the cash flow in such a way that the long lead time items, we will order probably earlier on in the year 2025. And so the proof of concepts will pan out through the year. And as we get closer to the end of the year, call it, Q3, we would place orders for the remaining parts of the line. That's how typically -- and again, this is all going to be driven by how the demand shapes up and the profile of the demand.

是的。因此，我們所做的實際上是，我們將以這樣一種方式管理現金流，即我們可能會在 2025 年早些時候訂購交貨時間較長的產品。因此，概念驗證將在這一年中得到證實。當我們接近年底（稱為第三季）時，我們將為該系列的其餘部分下訂單。這就是典型的情況——同樣，這一切都將由需求的形成方式和需求的概況所驅動。

Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.

好的。這很有幫助。謝謝。

Mark Shooter, William Blair.

馬克·射手，威廉·布萊爾。

Thanks, team. Congrats again on the second customer. We got more details in that engagement. So should we read this as more concrete? Or is this customer more eager than the other? Is there an opportunity here to try to pick these two against each other in a race for qualification?

謝謝，團隊。再次恭喜第二位顧客。我們在那次接觸中獲得了更多細節。那我們應該把它讀得更具體嗎？還是這個顧客比其他顧客更渴望？這裡有機會嘗試讓這兩個人在資格賽中相互競爭嗎？

I mean every customer is a little bit different, Mark. And I think, as you know, I have relationships with all of them. Every estimate is a little bit different, every customer is in a little bit different stage. I think that's the way you should read it. Our goal, of course, is to be a sizable player in the smartphone market. So it's just a question of who does first versus next. So that's probably the best way to describe it.

我的意思是每個客戶都有點不同，馬克。我想，如你所知，我和他們所有人都有關係。每個估計都有點不同，每個客戶都處於有點不同的階段。我認為這就是你應該閱讀的方式。當然，我們的目標是成為智慧型手機市場的重要參與者。所以這只是誰先做、誰後做的問題。這可能是描述它的最好方式。

Yeah. And I would just add to it. Like earlier also, Raj mentioned and I mentioned that. The first one is and the equation changes. Once you get one, it goes from push to pull. The first one is like you have to convince them and you have to cross all the hurdles. But once you get past that, from the next ones, it becomes a lot easier.

是的。我只想補充一下。也像之前一樣，拉傑有提到過，我也提到過。第一個是，方程式發生變化。一旦你得到了一個，它就會從推變成拉。第一個就像你必須說服他們並且你必須跨越所有障礙。但一旦你克服了這一點，接下來的事情就會變得容易多了。

Yeah. And my experience, both at Micron PI and Qualcomm is we launched the first one, then pretty much most of the market tends to use the technology once it's differentiated, and they see the value. So that's just the way the smartphone market works.

是的。根據我在 Micron PI 和 Qualcomm 的經驗，我們推出了第一個技術，一旦技術實現差異化，幾乎大多數市場都會傾向於使用該技術，並且他們看到了價值。這就是智慧型手機市場的運作方式。

Got it. Thank you both. Silicon has a slightly lower reduction potential and so a lower voltage profile. And I know smartphones are a high-power device with high voltage. I'm wondering if customers have brought this up. Is there any pushback in terms of the voltage profile? Or are they open to modifying the power management in the electronics any conversation like that with your customers?

知道了。謝謝你們倆。矽的還原電位稍低，因此電壓分佈也較低。我知道智慧型手機是一種高電壓的高功率設備。我想知道客戶是否提出過這個問題。電壓曲線方面是否有任何阻力？或者他們是否願意在與您的客戶進行類似的對話時修改電子設備中的電源管理？

Yeah. Yeah, we've had a lot of conversations with them, and it's an area where we work very closely with the other components in the ecosystem. For example, Qualcomm make process and PMICs and we work with the customer and Qualcomm. So I think people have realized now that silicon is going to be in the smartphone market.

是的。是的，我們與他們進行了很多對話，在這個領域我們與生態系統中的其他組成部分密切合作。例如，高通製造流程和 PMIC，我們與客戶和高通合作。所以我認為人們現在已經意識到矽將進入智慧型手機市場。

So the PMIC have already made the adjustments to actually be able to get that last bit of energy from silicon, so which is work we've been doing through last year, and we're pretty happy that should not be a problem anymore.

因此，PMIC 已經做出了調整，實際上能夠從矽中獲取最後一點能量，這是我們去年一直在做的工作，我們很高興這不再是一個問題。

Got it. Thanks for color

知道了。謝謝你的顏色

Tony Stoss, Craig-Hallum.

東尼·斯托斯，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Thanks, Raj. I wanted to follow up on your comment about the 7,000 milliamp batteries. I'm curious kind of when you think you could be producing something to that density? And also, what would the ASP be like in that? Are we kind of stuck in that $10 per battery ASP? Or would the higher densities markedly move up from that $10 number?

謝謝，拉傑。我想跟進您對 7,000 毫安培電池的評論。我很好奇你什麼時候認為你可以生產出那種密度的東西？另外，ASP 會是什麼樣子呢？我們是否陷入了每個電池 10 美元的平均售價？或者更高的密度會明顯高於 10 美元的數字嗎？

Yeah. I'll take the comment on Ben, and I'll let Farhan talk about the SP. He's pretty passionate about that. But yes, this is for launch in next year. We are actually talking about next year, 7,000 milliamp batteries. And I actually think is going to keep going up if we can produce higher and higher energy, higher capacity batteries in the same footprint I think there is still a lot more demand for energy capacity in the smartphones because the applications we see now are just trying more and more power from the battery.

是的。我將接受對 Ben 的評論，然後讓 Farhan 談論 SP。他對此非常熱衷。但是，是的，這將於明年推出。我們實際上談論的是明年的 7,000 毫安培電池。事實上，我認為，如果我們能夠在相同的佔地面積內生產出越來越高的能量、更高容量的電池，電池容量將會繼續上升。 ，因為我們現在看到的應用只是在嘗試電池的電量越來越多。

Yeah. So I would say that if you look at 5 million to 5.5 million parcel, those batteries like is what we said, like when we said that $11.5 million units and $150 million revenues, so about $13 in ASP would get you to our target revenue.

是的。所以我想說，如果你看一下500 萬到550 萬個包裹，這些電池就像我們所說的那樣，就像我們說的1150 萬美元和1.5 億美元的收入一樣，所以大約13 美元的平均售價將使你達到我們的目標收入。

And if you look not or silicon batteries, but what's in the graphite silicon space. Those batteries are in the $10 to $12 kind of a range, the higher performing tiers based on the market analysis. And so getting like a little bit of a premium to that is what we are expecting.

如果你看的不是矽電池，而是石墨矽領域。這些電池的價格範圍為 10 至 12 美元，根據市場分析，性能較高。因此，我們所期望的是對此有一點溢價。

And so -- and by the way, the commodity batteries are like sudden kind of range. So already higher energy density batteries getting a premium is already validated and because we'll have a significant energy density advantage. So what we were facing is not that much off.

順便說一句，商品電池就像突然的續航里程一樣。因此，更高能量密度的電池獲得溢價已經得到驗證，因為我們將擁有顯著的能量密度優勢。所以我們所面臨的情況並沒有那麼嚴重。

Now switching to 7,000. It's a higher energy density and higher amount of material goes in. So it's fair to think that pricing should be higher. Exactly how much remains to be seen. It's probably too early to say because at that point to the best of my knowledge, there's nobody else who's providing those batteries. So once we get there, we may have more ability to price and get a better price. But it will definitely be higher than the -- what you're charging for 5 to 5.5 Ampower cells today.

現在切換到 7,000。它具有更高的能量密度和更多的材料。因此，合理地認為定價應該更高。究竟有多少還有待觀察。現在說可能還為時過早，因為據我所知，目前還沒有其他人提供這些電池。所以一旦我們到達那裡，我們可能有更多的定價能力並獲得更好的價格。但它肯定會高於您現在為 5 至 5.5 Ampower 電池充電的價格。

Great. Thanks, Farhan.

偉大的。謝謝，法爾漢。

There are no further questions at this time. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Dr. Raj Talluri, for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。說到這裡，我想將電話轉給 Raj Talluri 博士，讓其致閉幕詞。

Yeah. Great quarter, and thank you all for patiently listening to us. And we'll talk to you next quarter. Thank you.

是的。很棒的季度，感謝大家耐心傾聽我們的演講。我們將在下個季度與您交談。謝謝。