Enovix Corp (ENVX) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Enovix Corporation's second quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's program will be recorded.

感謝您的耐心等待，歡迎參加 Enovix Corporation 的 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員說明） 提醒一下，今天的節目將會錄製。

And now I'd like to introduce your host for today's program, Charlie Anderson, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Strategy. Please go ahead, sir.

現在我想介紹一下今天節目的主持人，投資者關係和企業策略高級副總裁查理安德森。請繼續，先生。

Thank you. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Enovix Corporation second quarter 2024 financial results conference call.

謝謝。大家好，歡迎參加 Enovix 公司 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議。

With us today are President and Chief Executive Officer, Dr. Raj Talluri; Chief Financial Officer, Farhan Ahmad; and Chief Operating Officer, Ajay Marathe. Raj and Farhan will provide an overview and then we'll take your questions. After the Q&A session, we'll conclude our call.

今天與我們在一起的有總裁兼執行長 Raj Talluri 博士；財務長 Farhan Ahmad；兼營運長 Ajay Marathe。Raj 和 Farhan 將提供概述，然後我們將回答您的問題。問答環節結束後，我們將結束通話。

Before we continue, let me kindly remind you that we released our second quarter 2024 for shareholder letter after the market close today. It's available on our website at ir.enovix.com. A replay of this video call will be available later today on the Investor Relations page of our website.

在繼續之前，請允許我提醒您，我們在今天收盤後發布了 2024 年第二季股東信函。您可以在我們的網站 ir.enovix.com 上找到它。今天晚些時候，我們網站的投資者關係頁面將提供該視訊通話的重播。

Please note that the shareholder letter, press release, and this conference call all contain forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements are based on current expectations and may differ materially from actual future events or results due to a variety of factors.

請注意，股東信函、新聞稿和本次電話會議均包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在風險和不確定性。這些前瞻性陳述是基於目前的預期，可能由於多種因素而與未來實際事件或結果有重大差異。

For discussion of factors that could affect our future financial results and business. Please refer to the disclosure in today's shareholder letter and our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. All of our statements are made as of today, July 31, 2024 based on information currently available to us. We can give no assurance that these statements will prove to be correct, and we don't intend and undertake no duty to update these statements except as required by law.

討論可能影響我們未來財務表現和業務的因素。請參閱今天的股東信函以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中的揭露內容。我們的所有聲明均基於我們目前掌握的信息，截至 2024 年 7 月 31 日作出。我們不能保證這些陳述將被證明是正確的，除非法律要求，否則我們不打算也不承擔更新這些陳述的義務。

During this call, we will also discuss non-GAAP financial measures, which are not prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles, a reconciliation of the GAAP financial measures to the non-GAAP financial measures in our shareholder letter, which is posted on the Investor Relations page of our website.

在本次電話會議中，我們還將討論非 GAAP 財務指標，這些指標並非按照公認會計原則編制，GAAP 財務指標與我們的股東信中的非 GAAP 財務指標的對賬，該信函張貼在我們網站的投資者關係頁面。

I'll now turn the call over to Raj to begin. Raj?

現在我將把電話轉給拉傑開始。拉傑？

Thank you, Charlie, and thanks to everyone for joining us today. For our format today, I'm going to start with a recap of our recent results and some of our recent milestones. And before I turn it over to Farhan for the financials and the outlook, I'll have a few closing comments and then we'll take your questions.

謝謝你，查理，也謝謝大家今天加入我們。對於我們今天的形式，我將首先回顧我們最近的成果和一些最近的里程碑。在我將其交給法爾漢了解財務狀況和前景之前，我將發表一些總結評論，然後我們將回答您的問題。

Now, we had a very productive second quarter. To recap some of our recent achievements, first, we delivered a Q2 revenue of $3.8 million, which was above the midpoint of our forecast, and we expect significant revenue growth in the second half of the year from the first half.

現在，我們的第二季非常富有成效。回顧我們最近的一些成就，首先，我們第二季的營收為 380 萬美元，高於我們預測的中點，我們預計下半年營收將比上半年大幅成長。

Second, we had some very important commercial successes, starting with an agreement, we announced in June, with a leading California based technology company in the XR market. Then today, we're announcing a collaboration agreement with a Fortune 200 company and also our second deal with an auto OEM.

其次，我們取得了一些非常重要的商業成功，首先是我們在 6 月宣布與 XR 市場​​上一家領先的加州科技公司達成的協議。今天，我們宣布與財富 200 強公司達成合作協議，這也是我們與一家汽車原始設備製造商達成的第二份協議。

And lastly, we moved into operational mode in Malaysia as we began building batteries on the Agility line while ramping down our high cost manufacturing operation in the US. After this we did it -- after completing the first batch of EX-1M samples, which we've now sent to some of our customers.

最後，我們在馬來西亞進入營運模式，開始在 Agility 生產線上製造電池，同時減少在美國的高成本製造業務。此後我們完成了第一批 EX-1M 樣品，現在我們已將其發送給一些客戶。

Now, Malaysia has come along very nicely. To the extent we've taken a little bit longer than we planned, this has been due to our previously stated desire not to cut any corners and make sure all the equipment we are installing meets our rigorous specifications. We now have an agility line that has cleared the SAT, or the Site Acceptance Test, and he's producing first runs of EX-1M batteries.

現在，馬來西亞的發展非常好。在某種程度上，我們花費的時間比計劃的要長一些，這是因為我們之前表示希望不走任何捷徑，並確保我們正在安裝的所有設備都符合我們嚴格的規格。我們現在擁有一條已通過 SAT（即現場驗收測試）的敏捷生產線，他正在生產第一批 EX-1M 電池。

Our high-volume line is right behind it. Having cleared the FAT of all the key modules and it's the process of arriving and being installed at our site. We are super excited to show off this progress at our Malaysia grand opening next week. And many customers, including some big-name customers with lots of revenue, including smartphone customers and some cloud OEMs, have now begun scheduling visits to our facility, and we'll be participating -- we'll be welcoming them next week to showcase our factory. We believe everyone who sees it will be amazed by the quality of the factory we have built and the quality of the team we have hired.

我們的大批量生產線就在它後面。清除所有關鍵模組的FAT後，這就是到達我們現場並安裝的過程。我們非常高興能夠在下週的馬來西亞盛大開幕式上展示這項進展。許多客戶，包括一些收入豐厚的知名客戶，包括智慧型手機客戶和一些雲端原始設備製造商，現在已經開始安排參觀我們的工廠，我們將參與其中 - 我們將在下週歡迎他們展示我們的工廠。我們相信每個看到它的人都會對我們建造的工廠的品質和我們僱用的團隊的品質感到驚訝。

Now, speaking of customers, our engagement activity continues to strengthen. In the smartphone market, we work closely with the top five OEM we identified in our last call, to clear the first two key milestones in the development agreement that we signed. As noted in the last call, we broadly engage with the leaders in this market and continue to discuss more formal agreements and arrangements like this, similar to the one we announced in May.

現在，說到客戶，我們的參與活動持續加強。在智慧型手機市場，我們與上次電話會議中確定的前五名 OEM 密切合作，以實現我們簽署的開發協議中的前兩個關鍵里程碑。正如上次電話會議中所指出的，我們與該市場的領導者廣泛接觸，並繼續討論更正式的此類協議和安排，類似於我們在 5 月宣布的協議和安排。

As we all saw over the course of the last quarter, leading OEMs are now starting to announce AI features, which will become native and standard in the next generation smartphones. Clearly, we were early in pointing this out trend last year as we engaged with the customers and saw where these product roadmaps were heading.

正如我們在上個季度所看到的那樣，領先的 OEM 廠商現在開始宣佈人工智慧功能，這些功能將成為下一代智慧型手機的原生功能和標準配置。顯然，去年我們在與客戶接觸並了解這些產品路線圖的發展方向時很早就指出了這個趨勢。

As I sit here and observe what's happening, it's my belief that the 4,000, 5,000 milliampere-hour battery in the smartphones in our pockets today, will soon go to more than 6,000 milliampere-hour and beyond due to AI and other enhanced features.

當我坐在這裡觀察正在發生的事情時，我相信，由於人工智慧和其他增強功能，今天我們口袋裡的智慧型手機中的4,000、5,000 毫安培時電池很快將達到6,000 毫安培時甚至更高。

Now, this is really good news for the battery industry broadly and especially for us at Enovix. That's because we offer the customers in our target markets. What we believe is the only path forward to fully replace graphite with silicon to boost energy density in order to keep up with this rapidly increasing power needs without unduly increasing the size of the battery.

現在，這對整個電池產業來說確實是個好消息，尤其是對我們 Enovix 來說。這是因為我們為目標市場的客戶提供服務。我們認為，以矽完全取代石墨以提高能量密度的唯一途徑，以便在不過度增加電池尺寸的情況下滿足快速增長的電力需求。

Now, notably, we've already made early prototypes of our EX-2 M batteries here in Fremont, and we were able to validate the high energy density through the next generation chemistries that we've been working on. We are super excited by this results.

現在，值得注意的是，我們已經在弗里蒙特製作了 EX-2 M 電池的早期原型，並且我們能夠透過我們一直在研究的下一代化學技術來驗證高能量密度。我們對這個結果感到非常興奮。

We also see incremental growth opportunities for the conventional battery business we acquired last year in Korea, the company called Routejade. Specifically, these batteries have very high rate capabilities. Now, this high rate capabilities have proven very useful for the Korean military and also a number of industrial IoT applications. We see this also being applicable to other allied militaries forces, including the US. And this high rate capability is also designed in other product categories such as power tools.

我們也看到了去年在韓國收購的傳統電池業務（該公司名為 Routejade）的增量成長機會。具體來說，這些電池具有非常高的倍率能力。現在，這種高速率功能已被證明對韓國軍方以及許多工業物聯網應用非常有用。我們認為這也適用於包括美國在內的其他盟軍。這種高速率能力也被設計在其他產品類別中，例如電動工具。

It's important also to realize that we are investing heavily to support lasting technical leadership to build out a roadmap. For example, our core R&D headcount at the end of second quarter was nearly double that of a level ago -- double the level a year ago, and that's excluding the R&D team we added through the outlet acquisition.

同樣重要的是要認識到我們正在大力投資以支持持久的技術領導力以製定路線圖。例如，第二季末我們的核心研發人員數量幾乎是去年同期的兩倍，這還不包括我們透過收購門市而增加的研發團隊。

Now if we include the Korea R&D team, also, our R&D headcount is up nearly 170% year on year, and we intend to keep growing. For example, we now have a core R&D team in Malaysia that we now intend to double by the end of the year. Now, we've done all this while in parallel taking actions to significantly reduce our fixed costs by exiting the expensive California manufacturing. We also topped up our strong balance sheet via the ATM. This gives us a strong runway and plenty of time to prove out our manufacturing along with our customer acceptance of our leading battery.

現在如果加上韓國的研發團隊，我們的研發人員數量年增了近170%，我們打算繼續成長。例如，我們現在在馬來西亞擁有一個核心研發團隊，我們計劃在年底前將規模擴大一倍。現在，我們在完成這一切的同時，也採取行動，透過退出昂貴的加州製造業來大幅降低我們的固定成本。我們也透過自動櫃員機補充了我們強大的資產負債表。這為我們提供了強大的跑道和充足的時間來證明我們的製造以及客戶對我們領先電池的接受度。

With that, I'm going to turn it over to Farhan for the financials. Farhan?

這樣，我將把財務事宜交給 Farhan。法爾汗？

Thanks, Raj. All the relevant financials are in the quarterly report and the shareholder letter. So I'll keep my comments relatively short. We delivered second quarter revenue of $3.8 million, which was in the upper half of the guidance range. And non-GAAP EBITDA was a net loss of $23.1 million above our guidance of a loss of $26 to $32 million, and non-GAAP EPS came in at a loss of $0.14, also above our guidance of loss of $0.22 to $0.28. We ended the quarter with roughly $250 million of cash and equivalents and our balance sheet is very strong and as Raj mentioned, provides us with strong liquidity.

謝謝，拉吉。所有相關財務數據均包含在季度報告和股東信中。因此，我的評論將保持相對簡短。我們第二季的收入為 380 萬美元，處於指導範圍的上半部分。非 GAAP EBITDA 淨虧損 2,310 萬美元，高於我們指引的 2,600 至 3,200 萬美元的虧損，非 GAAP 每股盈餘虧損 0.14 美元，也高於我們指引的 0.22 至 0.28 美元的虧損。本季結束時，我們擁有約 2.5 億美元的現金和等價物，我們的資產負債表非常強勁，正如 Raj 所提到的那樣，為我們提供了強大的流動性。

Now, for the guidance. Turning to the third quarter of 2024, we forecast revenue in the range of $3.5 million to $4.5 million and adjusted EBITDA loss in the range of $23 to $29 million and a non-GAAP EPS loss in the range of $0.17 to $0.23 per share. As Raj mentioned, we expect substantial revenue growth for the -- from the first half of 2024 to the second half of 2024.

現在，尋求指導。談到2024 年第三季度，我們預計營收將在350 萬美元至450 萬美元之間，調整後EBITDA 虧損將在23 美元至2,900 萬美元之間，非GAAP 每股盈餘虧損將在0.17 美元至0.23美元之間。正如 Raj 所提到的，我們預計從 2024 年上半年到 2024 年下半年，收入將大幅成長。

With that, I'll turn it back to Raj to provide the closing comments.

至此，我將把它轉回拉吉以提供結束語。

Yeah. Thank you, Farhan. As you can see it's been a great quarter. We made substantial progress in many things, particularly Fab2 went operational. We took very decisive actions to extend our runway.

是的。謝謝你，法爾漢。正如您所看到的，這是一個很棒的季度。我們在許多方面都取得了實質進展，特別是 Fab2 投入營運。我們採取了非常果斷的行動來延長跑道。

Now, we are deeply engaged with leaders in the smartphone market. And as the industry hits the inflection point towards larger power requirements due to the AI features, this will really help us get our batteries into production in the smartphone space.

現在，我們正在與智慧型手機市場的領導者進行深入合作。隨著人工智慧功能的出現，業界正迎來更大功率需求的轉折點，這將真正幫助我們將電池投入智慧型手機領域的生產。

In IoT and auto, we stuck two important agreements with market leaders. We also were able to prove out that we can make the EX-2M batteries with high energy density here in Fremont. These are early samples. We're excited by the results with the next generation chemistries.

在物聯網和汽車領域，我們與市場領導者達成了兩項重要協議。我們還證明了我們可以在弗里蒙特製造高能量密度的 EX-2M 電池。這些是早期樣本。我們對下一代化學的結果感到興奮。

With that, we can now go to questions. Operator?

至此，我們現在可以開始提問了。操作員？

Please note that this call is being recorded. Before we go to live questions, we are going to read the two most highly loaded questions submitted by shareholders ahead of this call during the call registration.

請注意，此通話正在錄音。在進行現場提問之前，我們將閱讀股東在電話登記期間在本次電話會議之前提交的兩個最重要的問題。

The first question is what are some of the measures you have taken to prevent Chinese companies from pirating your technology? And if a new US administration significantly increases tariffs against China. How will this play out for Enovix?

第一個問題，你們採取了哪些措施來防止中國企業盜用你們的技術？如果美國新政府大幅提高對中國的關稅。Enovix 的結局如何？

Yeah. Thank you for this question. Firstly, Enovix has been working on making high energy density silicon batteries for a long time, almost 16 years now. And we have a very, very strong patent portfolio on this technology that we've built, both in the way to make batteries and manufacturing and so on.

是的。謝謝你提出這個問題。首先，Enovix 長期以來一直致力於製造高能量密度矽電池，至今已近 16 年。我們在這項技術上擁有非常非常強大的專利組合，無論是在製造電池還是在製造等方面。

More importantly, we have tremendous amount of trade secrets of how to actually make these, and we've perfecting this for some time now. So I feel good about our intellectual property and our strong technology leadership. But this is a competitive space, and we have to keep innovating and keeping moving forward to make sure that we have a lead in technology ahead of all our competitors, not just from China.

更重要的是，我們擁有大量關於如何實際製造這些的商業秘密，並且我們已經完善了它一段時間了。因此，我對我們的智慧財產權和強大的技術領先地位感到滿意。但這是一個競爭激烈的領域，我們必須不斷創新，不斷前進，以確保我們在技術上領先所有競爭對手，而不僅僅是來自中國。

As for the second comment on the tariffs, it's very difficult to -- for me to comment on the geopolitical landscape and how that's going to go. But I can tell you this, we are seeing a lot of interest from many customers now for a battery that's made by a North American battery company. And as we are one of the few ones that can actually make high energy consumer electronics batteries, and we are seeing a lot of interest for that nowadays. So we are very excited by the position we have there.

至於關於關稅的第二個評論，對我來說很難評論地緣政治格局及其將如何發展。但我可以告訴你，我們現在看到許多客戶對北美電池公司製造的電池很感興趣。由於我們是少數幾個能夠真正製造高能量消費電子電池的公司之一，因此我們現在看到了許多人對此的興趣。因此，我們對我們在那裡的地位感到非常興奮。

The second question is, what is the status of EX-2M and EX-3M in terms of timelines and their capacity in watt hours per liter and milliampere-hours. What is the strategy with Elentec partnership? Is this only for battery pack, or are we looking beyond that?

第二個問題是，EX-2M 和 EX-3M 在時間表及其容量（每公升瓦時和毫安培小時）方面的狀況如何。與 Elentec 的合作策略是什麼？這僅適用於電池組，還是我們正在考慮其他方面？

Yeah, on the first question on the roadmap, as I mentioned, we are super excited that we were able to create a few samples of the EX-2M to prove out that we can make the energy density increases that we talked about. But as I mentioned before, most customers, based on the market segment we are in, whether it's smartphones or IoTs or XR devices.

是的，關於路線圖上的第一個問題，正如我所提到的，我們非常興奮，因為我們能夠創建一些 EX-2M 樣本，以證明我們可以提高我們談到的能量密度。但正如我之前提到的，大多數客戶都是基於我們所處的細分市場，無論是智慧型手機、物聯網或 XR 設備。

Optimize the batteries for not just energy density, but energy density, the ability to charge fast, the ability to go for number cycles, the size of the battery, the shape of the battery, and so on. So it's hard to compare battery just on one metric like ED, but we are very confident with what we've been able to do so far. And then with the next generation electro-chemistries and next generation material coming, we have a strong roadmap of continuing to increase beyond the EX-2M into next generation batteries.

優化電池不僅要考慮能量密度，還要考慮能量密度、快速充電能力、循環次數、電池尺寸、電池形狀等。因此，很難僅根據 ED 等一項指標來比較電池，但我們對迄今為止所做的事情非常有信心。隨著下一代電化學和下一代材料的出現，我們有一個強大的路線圖，繼續超越 EX-2M 進入下一代電池。

As for the comment on Elentec, we -- I mentioned, I think, when we first made the Routejade acquisition, that -- it was important for us to have the ability not only to own our own coating, but also the ability to make packs. Because in many markets, customers actually want not just cells, but batteries with the -- battery management system and so on in a pack.

至於對 Elentec 的評論，我認為，當我們第一次收購 Routejade 時，我們不僅有能力擁有自己的塗料，而且有能力製造包。因為在許多市場中，客戶實際上不僅想要電池，還想要有電池管理系統等的電池組。

We have some capability to make packs because of the Routejade acquisition, but the market is big, and we need a lot of partners that have the capability to make packs to address various markets. And the Elentec one is one step in the direction of actually building out our channel so we can address multiple markets, not just in smartphones, but IOT and industrial IOT and XR and other markets.

因為收購了Routejade，我們有了一些包的生產能力，但是市場很大，我們需要很多有能力生產包的合作夥伴來應付不同的市場。Elentec 是朝著實際建立我們的管道方向邁出的一步，這樣我們就可以應對多個市場，不僅是智慧型手機，還包括物聯網、工業物聯網和 XR 以及其他市場。

(Operator Instructions) Ananda Baruah, Loop Capital Markets.

（操作員指令）Ananda Baruah，Loop Capital Markets。

A quick question and then I have a just quick clarification as well. The question -- and congrats on the announced progress here. The question is, it seems like based on the announcements, seemingly in the last 90 days, that you guys are widening your aperture of engagement, or at least your aperture of progress. There's -- Raj, a couple IoT announcements. You had in the shareholder letter a power tool, something like a reference to power tools. Moving forward the phone OEM engagements, and then now you've announced a second auto MOU this quarter.

一個簡單的問題，然後我也有一個簡單的澄清。這個問題——並對這裡宣布的進展表示祝賀。問題是，根據過去 90 天的公告，你們似乎正在擴大你們的參與範圍，或至少是你們的進展範圍。Raj，有幾項物聯網公告。你在股東信中提到了一個電動工具，類似於電動工具的提及。繼續推進手機 OEM 業務，現在您已在本季度宣布了第二份汽車諒解備忘錄。

So I guess, could you give us some context around what seems to be broadening engagement across verticals? And then also just with regards to Farhan's comments, is it appropriate to view there being some revenue bridge potential as a result of this between now and whenever you might start shipping to the smartphone OEMs? And I have just a quick clarification after that. Thanks.

所以我想，您能否給我們一些關於似乎正在擴大跨垂直領域參與度的背景資訊？然後，就 Farhan 的評論而言，從現在到您可能開始向智慧型手機原始設備製造商發貨之間存在一些收入橋樑潛力是否合適？之後我要快速澄清一下。謝謝。

Yeah, sure. Thanks, Ananda. So, I've mentioned before, I think in the last call, one of the toughest batteries to make in the consumer electronic space is actually the battery for the smartphones. Because it is the largest market, the demands are very high, it's got a big display, power-hungry application processors, memories, the AI requirements are coming in strong. There is things like long cycle life, there's things like fast charge, there's things like energy density, and there's space constraint.

是的，當然。謝謝，阿難。因此，我之前提到過，我認為在上次通話中，消費性電子領域最難製造的電池之一實際上是智慧型手機的電池。因為它是最大的市場，要求非常高，有大顯示器、耗電的應用處理器、記憶體，人工智慧的要求也很強烈。有諸如長循環壽命之類的東西，有諸如快速充電之類的東西，有諸如能量密度之類的東西，還有諸如空間限制之類的東西。

So that is the toughest space. And as we embark upon making batteries for that, and as you can see from our comments, we're making steady progress there with the OEMs, that battery technology can now be parlayed into many other markets. For example, the XR market. For example, the other markets, other consumer electronic markets, as we announced here. And the reason is, when you can meet those requirements, the rest of the markets have actually requirements that are a little bit less stringent.

所以這是最困難的空間。當我們開始為此製造電池時，正如您從我們的評論中看到的那樣，我們正在與原始設備製造商一起取得穩步進展，電池技術現在可以應用到許多其他市場。例如XR市場。例如，其他市場、其他消費性電子市場，正如我們在這裡宣布的那樣。原因是，當你能夠滿足這些要求時，其他市場的要求其實會稍微寬鬆一些。

Now, I saw this in my past life when I was at Qualcomm. We made apps processors that went into smartphones, but then that business quickly, we were able to ramp it into the IoT markets and auto markets and so on, because the toughest one was the smartphone one. So in that sense, what you're seeing with the announcements we're making more recently is really the entitlement that the company deserves when we attack and try to make a battery for a smartphone market. So we are super excited by that, the branching out of it.

現在，我在前世在高通工作時就看到了這一點。我們製造了進入智慧型手機的應用程式處理器，但很快，我們就能夠將其擴展到物聯網市場和汽車市場等，因為最困難的是智慧型手機市場。因此，從這個意義上說，當我們進攻並嘗試為智慧型手機市場製造電池時，您在我們最近發布的公告中看到的確實是該公司應得的權利。所以我們對此感到非常興奮，它的分支。

Again, my goal and the company's goal is to go after large high volume verticals in these markets, but not go after many, many small ones, because that fractures the R&D and there's not as much return for a manufacturing company.

再說一遍，我的目標和公司的目標是在這些市場中追求大批量的垂直市場，而不是追求很多很多的小市場，因為這會破壞研發，並且製造公司不會獲得太多回報。

On the auto side, that was actually super exciting development. I know last time we announced one auto OEM, the fact that we now have another auto OEM also validating the fact that we have this ability to stop the batteries from swelling too much, and the ability to charge very quickly is of interest, is very exciting. We are now working jointly with them to figure out how to get that technology to the next level. So both of those are very positive, and I feel entitlements to the technology that we have here.

在汽車方面，這實際上是非常令人興奮的發展。我知道上次我們宣布了一家汽車原始設備製造商，事實上我們現在有另一家汽車原始設備製造商也驗證了這樣一個事實，即我們有能力阻止電池過度膨脹，並且快速充電的能力非常有趣，非常有趣。我們現在正在與他們共同研究如何將該技術提升到一個新的水平。所以這兩點都是非常正面的，我覺得我們有權利使用我們這裡擁有的技術。

Ananda, on your second question related to the revenue bridge, it will depend on the pace of ramp -- pace of qualifications. But the IoT growth can be another vector for the revenue opportunity for the company. And it can be, it just grows our opportunity and how fast we're going to be able to ramp other revenue.

阿南達，關於與收入橋樑相關的第二個問題，這將取決於提升的速度——資格的速度。但物聯網的成長可能成為公司收入機會的另一個載體。它確實可以，它只會增加我們的機會以及我們能夠以多快的速度增加其他收入。

And then the quick clarification is, Raj, there was mentioned in your prepared remarks of smartphone and cloud customers being in Malaysia next week. Will they actually be at the event next week?

然後快速澄清的是，Raj，您在準備好的評論中提到智慧型手機和雲端客戶下週將在馬來西亞。他們真的會參加下週的活動嗎？

Yeah. I mean, we can't exactly comment on when the customers will be there, but there are a number of customers coming to visit us next week. And we can't, obviously say who is what. But many customers want to come at the event, and some customers want to come a little bit ahead, some customers want to come a little bit later.

是的。我的意思是，我們無法準確評論客戶何時會到達，但下週有很多客戶來拜訪我們。我們顯然無法說出誰是誰。但很多顧客想來參加活動，有些顧客想早一點來，有些顧客想晚一點來。

And I do expect that as we build these factories, we will have many customers that'll plan their visits. And we are super excited by the list of customers that want to visit us next week.

我確實預計，當我們建造這些工廠時，我們將有許多客戶計劃參觀。我們對下週想要拜訪我們的客戶名單感到非常興奮。

Colin Rusch, Oppenheimer.

科林‧魯施，奧本海默。

Can you speak to any potential collaborations with semiconductor or chip companies that you're potentially working on to optimize device level performance?

您能否談談您可能正在與半導體或晶片公司進行的任何潛在合作，以優化設備級性能？

Yeah, absolutely. When you put batteries in these markets, I'll just maybe for the rest of the audience, the battery is -- performance of the battery is and the way the battery performs inside. For example, a smartphone is quite a bit in close collaboration with the processor and the power management system, because, for example, in a phone, when the 5G modem kicks on, it's going to draw power much harder. When it's on standby, it draws power less. So there's many, many aspects of making sure that the battery actually fits well, either in a smartphone or an IoT device based on what processor and what power management system is in there.

是的，絕對是。當你把電池放入這些市場時，我可能會對其他觀眾來說，電池是——電池的性能以及電池內部的性能。例如，智慧型手機與處理器和電源管理系統密切協作，因為，例如，在手機中，當 5G 數據機啟動時，它會更困難地消耗電力。當它處於待機狀態時，它消耗的電量較少。因此，要確保電池真正適合智慧型手機或物聯網設備，需要考慮許多許多方面，具體取決於其中的處理器和電源管理系統。

As I've spent a lot of time at Qualcomm and TI and other chip companies, so I'm quite familiar with that. One thing that is happening is that silicon batteries operate at a lower voltage, like, for example, 2.7 volts, because there's quite a bit of energy density you can get from the battery at a lower voltage. And a testament to the fact that the world is moving towards silicon batteries is the fact that now you see chip companies, Qualcomm's, MediaTek's, other companies, Samsung's and so on.

由於我在高通、TI等晶片公司工作過很長時間，所以對此還是比較熟悉的。正在發生的一件事是矽電池在較低電壓下運行，例如 2.7 伏，因為在較低電壓下可以從電池獲得相當多的能量密度。現在你可以看到晶片公司，高通、聯發科、其他公司、三星等等，這證明了世界正在向矽電池發展。

Making adjustments to the app's processor plus power management system to actually connect to silicon batteries at 2.7 volts and so on. We are working with all of them. Thanks to our engagement with our customers and thanks to the deep connections we have in that ecosystem.

對應用程式的處理器和電源管理系統進行調整，以實際連接到 2.7 伏特的矽電池等。我們正在與他們所有人合作。感謝我們與客戶的互動以及我們在該生態系統中的深厚聯繫。

So we are super excited by that, and I think it's a really good thing because our comprehension of how the battery should be built and how the battery should operate and how the battery should actually be optimized for an end device is getting stronger and stronger, and that really helps us in making the right next-gen batteries.

所以我們對此感到非常興奮，我認為這是一件非常好的事情，因為我們對電池應該如何構建、電池應該如何運行以及電池應該如何針對終端設備進行實際優化的理解越來越強，這確實有助於我們製造合適的下一代電池。

And then as a follow-up, can you give us a sense of what you're anticipating as initial yields on Fab2 and how we should be thinking about ramp and scrap expenses as we get to the balance of this year in the first part of 2025?

然後作為後續行動，您能否讓我們了解一下您對 Fab2 的初始收益率的預期，以及當我們在今年第一部分達到今年的餘額時，我們應該如何考慮斜坡和報廢費用？

Ajay is actually online from Malaysia, he's there at Fab2. So I'll let Ajay talk about this.

Ajay 實際上來自馬來西亞，他在 Fab2 在線。那我就讓 Ajay 來談談這個吧。

Sure, yeah, the yields, we, as Raj alluded in his starting comments, we took time a little bit to buy off the equipment in SAT, which is agility equipment, just because we wanted to make sure that there's no corners cut and those types of things.

當然，是的，產量，正如 Raj 在他的開頭評論中提到的那樣，我們花了一點時間購買 SAT 中的設備，這是敏捷設備，只是因為我們想確保沒有偷工減料，而那些事物的類型。

So yields, we will begin definitely where we left off in Fab1 and then they will climb from there to the world-class yields that we expect on both the lines.

因此，就產量而言，我們肯定會從 Fab1 中斷的地方開始，然後它們將從那裡攀升至我們預期的兩條生產線的世界級產量。

And then in terms of the ramp and scrap expense for the balance of this year? How should we be thinking about that from a modeling perspective?

那麼今年剩餘時間的坡道和報廢費用呢？我們該如何從建模的角度來思考這個問題？

Yeah, maybe let me take a shot at it and then Ajay, you can add color to it. So if you talk about ramp, as I mentioned, right, we are first focused very heavily on building cells out of agility line because that's the one that we need to sample to our customers. The HVM line is coming right behind it and we will work to make sure that HVM line is ready and fully capable by the end of the year because the high volume ramp, as I mentioned before, will happen in next year. So we just need to make sure that we are ready.

是的，也許讓我試一下，然後阿傑，你可以給它添加顏色。因此，如果你談論斜坡，正如我所提到的，對吧，我們首先非常關注在敏捷線之外構建單元，因為這是我們需要向客戶提供樣品的單元。HVM 生產線緊隨其後，我們將努力確保 HVM 生產線在今年年底前準備就緒並完全具備能力，因為正如我之前提到的，明年將出現大批量生產。所以我們只需要確保我們準備好了。

But a lot of energy is now on getting the agility line to the right level. So we can actually make the samples of EX-1M, get it ready for EX-2M and so on. And maybe there is a comment on scrap, isn't it?

但現在我們投入了大量的精力來使敏捷線達到正確的水平。所以我們實際上可以製作 EX-1M 的樣品，為 EX-2M 做好準備等等。也許還有關於廢料的評論，不是嗎？

Yeah, the comment was on the, I guess like he wanted to know the modeling and how they should be modeling the cost. Yeah. Should I take it?

是的，評論是關於，我想他想知道建模以及他們應該如何對成本進行建模。是的。我該接受嗎？

Sure.

當然。

Yeah. So it looked like there will be, there are a lot of moving pieces on how you are thinking about the modeling. Our cost reductions that we have taken are going to be the predominant factor in terms of the overall cash burn and how that's going to be tracking in terms of the cash flow from operations.

是的。所以看起來會有很多關於你如何思考建模的令人感動的事情。我們採取的成本削減措施將成為整體現金消耗以及如何追蹤營運現金流的主要因素。

So Q3 should be better than Q2 and then Q4 should be better than Q3 overall. And that includes the expenses that are related to the scrap and the ramp of yield. Now, through the year, like our COGS will go up and the OpEx may come down, but in aggregate, like the overall cost comments that I have. We'll start.

因此，Q3 應該優於 Q2，然後 Q4 總體上應該優於 Q3。這包括與廢品和產量增加相關的費用。現在，在這一年裡，我們的銷貨成本將會上升，營運支出可能會下降，但總的來說，就像我對整體成本的評論一樣。我們就開始吧。

Bill Peterson, JPMorgan.

比爾彼得森，摩根大通。

Just on the smartphone market, and you've given a lot of color in the last few calls, but assuming that you're looking to maybe ramp in the back half of next year and then more meaningfully into 2026. Trying to get a sense of the milestones between now and let's say a year from now, which presumably when at least some of the customers will qualify.

就智慧型手機市場而言，您在最近幾次電話會議中給出了很多建議，但假設您希望在明年下半年實現成長，然後更有意義地進入 2026 年。試圖了解從現在到一年後的里程碑，大概那時至少有一些客戶符合資格。

So first of all, can you remind us of the sampling cadence? I guess, -- when will you be sampling EX1 across all the smartphone makers this year, already EX-2M later this year, and then more volume later this year and the next year? I mean, you also mentioned earlier in the call that you may ink more formal agreements. How should we think about that? Basically, what we're trying to get to is what should we be on the lookout for from a milestone perspective over the next year?

首先，您能提醒我們一下採樣節奏嗎？我想，- 今年什麼時候在所有智慧型手機製造商中提供 EX1 樣品，今年晚些時候已經是 EX-2M，然後在今年晚些時候和明年增加產量？我的意思是，您之前在電話中也提到，您可能會簽署更正式的協議。我們該如何思考這個問題？基本上，我們想要解決的是，從里程碑的角度來看，明年我們該關注什麼？

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So let me just recap one more time. We made some samples before we shut down the Fremont factory and just to prove out that, we can get the EX-1M into the right form factor. We talked about that last time. We send those to some customers, but really the sampling, what most customers want is actually samples from our Malaysia factory, which is where the production will be.

是的，當然。絕對地。讓我再回顧一下。我們在關閉弗里蒙特工廠之前製作了一些樣品，只是為了證明這一點，我們可以使 EX-1M 具有正確的外形尺寸。我們上次談到這個。我們將這些發送給一些客戶，但實際上是樣品，大多數客戶想要的實際上是來自我們馬來西亞工廠的樣品，這就是生產的地方。

And our target, as I mentioned last time, is to get those samples out in 3Q. And then once we get those out to the customers, after doing some amount of testing on our side, we'll get to them and they will test them also and validate and make the right trade-offs between energy density, cycle life, ability to fast charge, and so on. And then they will give us during this period that we're working with them.

正如我上次提到的，我們的目標是在第三季取得這些樣本。然後，一旦我們將這些產品交給客戶，在我們這邊進行了一些測試之後，我們就會聯繫他們，他們也會對它們進行測試並驗證並在能量密度、循環壽命、能力之間做出正確的權衡快速充電等等。然後他們會告訴我們在此期間我們與他們合作的情況。

The actual dimensions of the battery, what shape it should be, how many milliampere-hours, and so on. Because the phone models next year will have different shape batteries than the phone models this year. And we will get that feedback in the later part of the year. And then we will need to adjust our tooling to actually make those batteries and get those to them next year.

電池的實際尺寸，應該是什麼形狀，多少毫安培等等。因為明年的手機型號將採用與今年的手機型號不同形狀的電池。我們將在今年下半年得到回饋。然後我們需要調整我們的工具來實際製造這些電池並在明年交付給他們。

And they typically then put those in their phone models and when they're making a phone that they're going to launch next year, and they're going to test one more time to make sure the batteries do what they're supposed to do in the phone, not because initial testing this year will be in isolation, not in the phone. And if everything goes well, and things look good, and the qualifications happen on time, they will place purchase orders, and we'll need to ramp that to manufacturing.

然後他們通常會將這些電池放入他們的手機模型中，當他們製造明年推出的手機時，他們將再進行一次測試，以確保電池發揮應有的作用在手機中進行，不是因為今年的初始測試將是隔離的，而不是在手機中進行。如果一切順利，事情看起來不錯，並且資格審查按時進行，他們將下採購訂單，我們需要將其投入生產。

As I mentioned, we are working with multiple customers, and many of them will get samples. And we just continue to work through one at a time. Meanwhile, as I mentioned, we are working on agreements that will actually talk about formalizing this process that I just mentioned. And we announced one of them last time, and we're working on others to do something similar.

正如我所提到的，我們正在與多個客戶合作，其中許多客戶都會獲得樣品。我們只是繼續一次完成一項工作。同時，正如我所提到的，我們正在製定協議，這些協議實際上將討論將我剛才提到的流程正式化。我們上次宣布了其中之一，我們正在努力讓其他人做類似的事情。

And as for EX-2M, our first focus is on getting EX-1M. EX-2M, we made early samples, as I mentioned, in Fremont. The next step is to perfect that and make those again in Malaysia and get that ready to production for '26.

至於 EX-2M，我們的首要重點是獲得 EX-1M。EX-2M，正如我所提到的，我們在弗里蒙特製作了早期樣品。下一步是完善它，並在馬來西亞再次製作，並為 26 年的生產做好準備。

Yeah, thanks, Raj. And on this newly announced IoT agreement with the Fortune 200, I guess, this company make other form factors like smartphones? Is this something synergistic with what you're doing? Or is this -- for small batteries or maybe large batteries? And trying to get a sense for the financial ramifications of this the go-to-market timing, the economics, I mean, how milestone payments, just how to think about this agreement and how it should impact your financials.

是的，謝謝，拉傑。在與財富 200 強公司新宣布的物聯網協議中，我猜這家公司還生產其他外形尺寸的產品，例如智慧型手機？這與你正在做的事情有協同作用嗎？還是這是針對小型電池還是大型電池？並試圖了解這一上市時間、經濟方面的財務影響，我的意思是，里程碑付款如何，如何考慮協議以及它如何影響您的財務狀況。

Yeah, great question. As you can imagine, Bill, we are a little, as an early stage company that is working with big companies, we are a little limited in what companies will allow us to say and allow us not to say, because they do have incumbent suppliers and so on. But I can tell you this much, though, there's tremendous amount of interest in what we are able to build.

是的，很好的問題。正如你可以想像的那樣，比爾，作為一家與大公司合作的早期公司，我們對公司允許我們說和允許我們不說的內容有一點限制，因為他們確實有現任供應商等等。但我可以告訴你的是，人們對我們能夠建造的東西非常感興趣。

And they're not able to get that battery that we are talking about from their current base. That's why they're working with us. I would say this, I think the press really said it, it's a product that's got a large install base already of products in the market, so we'll be replacing the batteries in some of them. So in that sense, it's not a new category of product, it's a product that's out there. So that's one aspect of it, is that it's an established market.

他們無法從他們目前的基地獲得我們正在談論的電池。這就是他們與我們合作的原因。我想說的是，我認為媒體確實這麼說過，這是一款在市場上已經擁有大量產品安裝基礎的產品，因此我們將更換其中一些產品的電池。所以從這個意義上來說，它不是一個新的產品類別，而是一個已經存在的產品。這是它的一方面，它是一個成熟的市場。

The second one is, many of our engagements nowadays, we talk about milestone-based payments, because we will need to make custom-sized batteries for these things, and we need to put a bunch of our R&D resources on that. And there's opportunity cost of all of that.

第二個是，我們現在的許多活動都談論基於里程碑的付款，因為我們需要為這些東西製造客製化尺寸的電池，我們需要在這方面投入大量研發資源。所有這一切都是有機會成本的。

And the exciting thing is that customers are willing to pay for that, based on milestones, and that shows the value of the technology we bring, and the differentiation we can offer to our customers. So I think that part is exciting. And we'll be, absolutely, I understand where you're coming from, and we'll try to provide as much color and detail as we can, as our customers allow us to do.

令人興奮的是，客戶願意根據里程碑為此付費，這顯示了我們帶來的技術的價值，以及我們可以為客戶提供的差異化優勢。所以我認為這部分很令人興奮。我們絕對會理解您的想法，並且我們將盡力提供盡可能多的顏色和細節，就像我們的客戶允許我們做的那樣。

And the only other thing I would add, and it was in the press release that the customers, in this case, do care about energy density, and they are willing to pay a premium for the energy density as well, over what's available more broadly in the market.

我要補充的唯一一件事是，在新聞稿中，在這種情況下，客戶確實關心能量密度，並且他們也願意為能量密度支付溢價，而不是更廣泛的可用能量密度在市場上。

Jed Dorsheimer, William Blair.

傑德·多斯海默，威廉·布萊爾。

Congrats on the Fab. Looking forward to seeing things. I guess, my first question is just around the commentary, I think, Ajay mentioned that yields would be similar to Fremont. And I'm wondering, is that specific to agility? Or is that because my understanding was that the high volume was going to be more in the 95% type range? Or is the 60% Fremont that the starting point, and you're going to ramp towards. And then I have a follow up.

恭喜 Fab。期待看到一些東西。我想，我的第一個問題只是圍繞著評論，我認為，阿賈伊提到收益率將與弗里蒙特相似。我想知道，這是否特定於敏捷性？還是因為我的理解是高音量會比較在 95% 類型範圍內？或者是 60% 的弗里蒙特作為起點，您將朝著這個方向前進。然後我有一個後續行動。

Yeah, I mean, just I'll say a little bit about yields, and then I'll let Ajay add colors. Essentially, this business makes sense when we get to very high 90- percentage-plus, 95-percentage-plus yields when we're in high volume manufacturing. And that has always been our goal.

是的，我的意思是，我會簡單介紹產量，然後我會讓 Ajay 添加顏色。從本質上講，當我們在大批量生產中達到 90% 以上、95% 以上的高產量時，這項業務就有意義了。這一直是我們的目標。

And I mentioned that before, that's where we will and we aspire to be and we need to be when we get to high volume. The question is really about where we start and where we end up. Our goal has always been to looking at what we were able to do and where we ended in Fremont, we can start from there, because we've learned what needs to be done, and then steadily increase them as we get to high volume.

我之前提到過，這就是我們將要實現的目標、我們渴望實現的目標，以及當我們達到高產量時我們需要實現的目標。問題實際上是關於我們從哪裡開始和結束在哪裡。我們的目標一直是看看我們能夠做什麼以及我們在弗里蒙特的結局，我們可以從那裡開始，因為我們已經了解了需要做什麼，然後隨著我們達到高產量而穩步增加它們。

I think that's, but Ajay, go ahead, if there's more color you want to add.

我想是這樣，但是阿傑，如果您想添加更多顏色，請繼續。

Yeah, sure, Raj. Yeah, so first of all, differentiating between agility and HVM is not necessarily the right thing to do or the right thing to look at, because both agility and HVM kernels are identical. So when we do the learnings on agility, we begin where Fremont left off, as I said, and we quickly ramp it to the mid to high-90s.

是的，當然，拉吉。是的，所以首先，區分敏捷性和 HVM 不一定是正確的做法或正確的看法，因為敏捷性和 HVM 核心是相同的。因此，當我們學習敏捷性時，我們從弗里蒙特停下來的地方開始，正如我所說，我們很快就將其提升到 90 年代中期到後期。

As we've always said, that will be immediately applicable to the HVM lines. HVM line is just slightly behind agility. As Raj mentioned, we have finished the FAT already for the HVM line. The equipment is already installed for most part. There's some laggards coming in literally in the next couple of weeks. And we'll begin similar ramp as we are now doing on agility. So the focus is on agility now, get deals up to where we need and where we desire, and then carry the learnings immediately on the HVM line behind it.

正如我們一直所說的，這將立即適用於 HVM 線路。HVM 線稍微落後於敏捷性。正如 Raj 所提到的，我們已經完成了 HVM 系列的 FAT。設備大部分已安裝完成。在接下來的幾週內，確實會有一些落後者加入。我們將開始類似的提升，就像我們現在在敏捷性方面所做的那樣。因此，現在的重點是敏捷性，在我們需要和期望的地方進行交易，然後立即將學到的知識應用到其背後的 HVM 線上。

And then Farhan, just as my follow-up, it seems like it's going to, you've got a few different moving parts here. And so as you ramp IoT on agility, you recognize those revenues, the costs are going to come. How are you thinking about the underutilization and allocating the costs is the high volume line ramps around samples? Does that trigger that recognition or would samples, does that get put off until you're selling to the customers? Just the mechanics of that might be useful.

然後法爾漢，正如我的後續行動一樣，似乎將會有一些不同的活動部件。因此，當您提高物聯網的敏捷性時，您會意識到這些收入，成本也會隨之而來。您如何看待樣品周圍高產量生產線的使用率不足和分配成本？這是否會觸發這種認可或樣品，是否會推遲到您向客戶銷售為止？只是其中的機制可能有用。

So the devil's in the detail, Jed, and it'll depend on the contracts that we have and accounting policies are like very technical -- there's a lot of technical accounting on it. And so I would say that, look, ultimately it's a non-cash charge. It doesn't really matter on how you're thinking about the cash. The depreciation will start hitting as once the tool is recognized as being in production. And there are different ways in which you can depreciate it. And that part, still, we have to finalize it in terms of how exactly we're going to be depreciating it.

所以，傑德，細節決定成敗，這取決於我們所擁有的合同，而會計政策非常技術性——其中有很多技術會計。所以我想說，看，這最終是非現金費用。你如何看待現金並不重要。一旦工具被確認為投入生產，折舊就會開始發生。您可以透過不同的方式對其進行折舊。對於這一部分，我們仍然必須最終確定我們將如何對其進行折舊。

So I'll leave that question somewhat unanswered for you, Jed, right now, but it is a non-cash item.

所以，傑德，我現在暫時不對你回答這個問題，但它是非現金項目。

Gabe Daoud, Cowen.

加布·達烏德，考恩。

Thanks for taking my questions. Hoping we can maybe go back to Bill's question just around cadence. So if you ship sales from Fremont in May and call it a 9 to 12-month qualification period, which is next May, maybe next June, is that maybe like when we could expect a first PO from a potential customer, maybe for the second half of next year? Is that still the case?

感謝您回答我的問題。希望我們可以圍繞節奏回到比爾的問題。因此，如果您在5 月從弗里蒙特發貨，並將其稱為9 到12 個月的資格期，即明年5 月，也許明年6 月，這可能就像我們可以期待潛在客戶的第一筆採購訂單，也許是第二筆採購訂單明年一半？現在還是這樣嗎？

Yeah, I mean, again, it all depends upon when the customer finishes their qualification and I explained the process of how the qualification goes in terms of when we give the first samples, when they give the exact size of it, when we get it from Malaysia.

是的，我的意思是，這一切都取決於客戶何時完成資格認證，我解釋了資格認證的過程，包括我們何時提供第一個樣品，何時他們給出確切的尺寸，何時我們得到它來自馬來西亞。

So typically a customer place orders when they feel the product is qualified in their phone and they're ready for us to make high-volume products. So I would leave it as a later half of next year is what we said before. And we'll continue to say the same thing because it's -- once they get once they get samples from Malaysia, you start testing them. That's when we'll know more.

因此，通常，當客戶認為手機中的產品合格並且準備好讓我們生產大量產品時，他們就會下訂單。所以我會留下它，因為我們之前說過明年下半年。我們將繼續說同樣的事情，因為一旦他們從馬來西亞獲得樣本，你就開始測試它們。到時候我們就會了解更多。

And that's still, is it fair then to assume that you're still thinking about multiple lines in '26?

儘管如此，假設您仍在考慮 26 年的多行內容是否公平？

Yeah. When we put more lines, we'll depend upon, again, how many customers are ramping, how fast, whether we are in a very high-volume product or whether we are in a lower-volume product first and then the next product. So that depends upon the timing of the volumes.

是的。當我們投入更多生產線時，我們將再次取決於有多少客戶正在增加，速度有多快，我們是否生產非常高產量的產品，或者我們是否先生產低產量的產品，然後再生產下一個產品。所以這取決於卷的時間。

What we are doing is, we do have a facility that can hold up to four lines, and Ajay and his team have facilitated that. And we are looking at all the long-lead items and which ones we should get out more, get ahead of them. But clearly, that is our goal that we'll have multiple lines in '26.

我們正在做的是，我們確實擁有一個最多可容納 4 條生產線的設施，Ajay 和他的團隊為此提供了便利。我們正在研究所有長期的項目，以及我們應該更多地推出哪些項目，超越它們。但顯然，我們的目標是在 26 年擁有多條生產線。

And then just a follow-up, if we look at top-spec Chinese mobile phones with maybe 800 or so watt-hours per liter. Could you maybe quantify then what EX-1M is relative to that figure and what EX-2M is relative to that figure? You noted some of the prototypes of EX-2M have encouragingly hit your energy density targets. I'm just curious if you could share those. Again, I recognize battery is all about tradeoffs, but just curious at least what the initial energy density number is? Thanks, guys.

接下來，如果我們看看頂級規格的中國手機，每公升的功耗可能為 800 瓦時左右。您能否量化一下 EX-1M 相對於該數字以及 EX-2M 相對於該數字？您注意到 EX-2M 的一些原型令人鼓舞地達到了您的能量密度目標。我只是好奇你是否可以分享這些。再說一遍，我體認到電池就是權衡，但只是好奇至少初始能量密度是多少？謝謝，夥計們。

Yeah. I think it's really not a fair representation. I've maintained this over the last many, many quarters. People like to describe batteries by one number, and it's really hard. It's like describing an apps processor by megahertz or gigahertz. These are not that products.

是的。我認為這確實不是一個公平的代表。在過去的很多很多季度裡我一直保持著這一點。人們喜歡用一個數字來描述電池，但這確實很難。這就像用兆赫或千兆赫來描述應用程式處理器一樣。這些不是那個產品。

It depends upon cycle life. It depends upon fast charge. If you actually take the batteries in all the smartphones out there and start looking at them, you will get a varied set of numbers. What's most important is the battery be competitive in energy density while satisfying all the other requirements to be in the phone. Customers are working with us because they see the energy density we provide, and they see the roadmap that we have. And ultimately, the tradeoffs they'll make exactly where the ED will be.

這取決於循環壽命。這取決於快速充電。如果您實際上取出所有智慧型手機中的電池並開始查看它們，您將獲得一組不同的數字。最重要的是電池在能量密度方面具有競爭力，同時滿足手機的所有其他要求。客戶與我們合作是因為他們看到了我們提供的能量密度，並且他們看到了我們的路線圖。最終，他們將在 ED 的位置上做出權衡。

You will be able to -- once we are in production, once the phones are out, you'll be able to take out and measure them to see. What exactly the tradeoffs the customers have made, because we don't control all of that. The customers will decide to use them differently based on what phone they put in and which markets they're selling in and what features they tend to highlight.

一旦我們投入生產，一旦手機上市，您將能夠取出並測量它們以進行查看。客戶到底做了什麼權衡，因為我們無法控制這一切。客戶將根據他們安裝的手機、銷售的市場以及他們傾向於強調的功能來決定以不同的方式使用它們。

Derek Soderberg, Cantor.

德里克·索德伯格，康托爾。

And I'm also looking forward to seeing the facility next week. Raj, you mentioned smartphone OEM. That's cleared two key milestones. How should we think about those milestones in terms of that 9 to 12 month qualification schedule? Does it speed up that schedule at all? Just wondering if you can frame how we should interpret that commentary with milestones achieved as it relates to commercialization.

我也期待下週參觀該設施。Raj，您提到了智慧型手機 OEM。這已經清除了兩個關鍵的里程碑。我們應該如何考慮 9 到 12 個月的資格時間表中的這些里程碑？它會加快進度嗎？只是想知道您是否可以根據與商業化相關的里程碑來解釋我們應該如何解釋該評論。

Then I've got a follow-up.

然後我有後續行動。

Yeah. You should interpret it as things are on track. It's like how we expected that we would do it. I mean, the contract specified, we need to do this by this time, we need to do this by this time, we need to do this by this time, as I mentioned. The process is we give samples, they test them, they do the safety testing, then they test the ED and so on. Then they give us the exact shape of the battery, then we make them. I mean, there's a whole bunch of stuff that's laid out in these contracts, and we're on track to do those. I hope everything goes smoothly and we'll get them to production as quickly as we can.

是的。你應該將其解釋為一切都步入正軌。這就像我們期望我們會做的那樣。我的意思是，合約規定，我們需要在這個時候這樣做，我們需要在這個時候這樣做，我們需要在這個時候這樣做，正如我所提到的。這個過程是我們提供樣品，他們進行測試，他們進行安全測試，然後測試 ED 等等。然後他們給我們電池的確切形狀，然後我們製造它們。我的意思是，這些合約中規定了一大堆東西，我們正在按計劃去做這些事情。我希望一切順利，我們將盡快將它們投入生產。

Then as my follow-up, in the shareholder letter, there was some wording around trends in diversity of suppliers in the industry. Raj, can you elaborate on that a bit? I'm curious, first, which end markets that applies to? Is it more smartphones? Is it broad-based? Just generally, how does this diversification trend fit into the scale trend strategy? Thanks.

然後，作為我的後續行動，在股東信中，有一些關於行業供應商多元化趨勢的措辭。Raj，可以詳細說明一下嗎？我很好奇，首先，適用於哪些終端市場？智慧型手機越來越多了嗎？其基礎廣泛嗎？整體而言，這種多角化趨勢如何適應規模化趨勢策略？謝謝。

Yeah. The comment is based on the fact, I think there was a question at the beginning of the conference of the call. We are seeing a lot of, I would say, customers preferring to go with North American battery manufacturers with all the geopolitical uncertainties and the tariffs and so on, and they're looking for different suppliers.

是的。該評論是基於事實的，我認為電話會議開始時有一個問題。我想說，我們看到很多客戶更願意與北美電池製造商合作，因為面臨地緣政治的不確定性和關稅等，他們正在尋找不同的供應商。

We are one of the few, if not the only, who can make batteries into consumer electronic devices in this market. So I think we're getting good, I would say, tailwinds in that front, and that's what that comment is meant to highlight.

我們是這個市場上為數不多的（如果不是唯一的）能夠將電池製造成消費性電子設備的公司之一。所以我認為我們在這方面取得了良好的進展，這就是該評論想要強調的。

George Gianarikas, Canaccord.

喬治·賈納里卡斯，Canaccord。

Maybe just to focus on the margin potential, as you continue to round out customers looking into 2025 and 2026. How do the recent discussions that you've had, particularly, with the announcement you made today. How do they inform your cash gross margin and overall margin targets over the next couple of years? Thank you.

也許只是為了專注於利潤潛力，因為你會繼續尋找 2025 年和 2026 年的客戶。你們最近的討論，特別是你們今天發布的公告，進展如何？他們如何告知您未來幾年的現金毛利率和整體利潤率目標？謝謝。

Yeah, the IoT customers that we have disclosed in our earlier arrangements, they have price points which, when the technology is at scale, will give us good margins when we are in scale with multiple lines. So the price point itself, there is a sufficient premium, and it can support very healthy level of margins. And actually, it validates our assumptions that we had in our long-term model.

是的，我們在先前的安排中披露的物聯網客戶，他們有價格點，當技術規模化時，當我們規模化多條生產線時，它們將為我們帶來良好的利潤。因此，價格點本身就有足夠的溢價，並且可以支持非常健康的利潤水平。實際上，它驗證了我們在長期模型中的假設。

And maybe as a follow-up, I'm curious about the discussions that you've had with EV OEMs, and as you continue to work through those, maybe two parts. First, to the extent you have visibility on this stuff, given that it's very early stage.

也許作為後續行動，我對您與電動車原始設備製造商進行的討論感到好奇，當您繼續完成這些討論時，可能會分為兩個部分。首先，鑑於目前還處於早期階段，您對這些東西的了解程度。

What model years would we expect any batteries to show up in EVs? And second, as you continue to contemplate, which business model you'll deploy to enable EV batteries? Where are you leaning towards in your thinking? Thank you.

我們期望電動車中出現什麼型號的電池？其次，當您繼續思考時，您將部署哪種商業模式來支援電動車電池？你的想法傾向於哪裡？謝謝。

Yeah. I'll take a stab at it, and Farhan can add some more on the model.

是的。我會嘗試一下，Farhan 可以在模型上添加更多內容。

I think these -- EVs take much longer to go to production, as you guys know. I think what is exciting about this announcement is that, we had always talked about the fact that our battery has a couple of key advantages in EV market. One is the ability to charge fast without heating up, and the second one is any material that's trying to put high energy density is still swelling, and we can control that.

正如你們所知，我認為這些電動車需要更長的時間才能投入生產。我認為這項公告令人興奮的是，我們一直在談論我們的電池在電動車市場中具有幾個關鍵優勢的事實。一是能夠在不升溫的情況下快速充電，第二是任何試圖提供高能量密度的材料仍然會膨脹，我們可以控制這一點。

Those two, we've presented to the EVMs and the EV, auto EVMs, OEMs, and they like it, and they have signed agreements with us to jointly develop this technology to the point where it can be deployed in their cars. That's where that is. It'll take a couple more years for us to get to that stage.

我們已經向 EVM 和 EV、汽車 EVM、OEM 展示了這兩項技術，他們很喜歡，並且與我們簽署了協議，共同開發這項技術，以便將其部署到他們的汽車中。就是那個地方。我們還需要幾年時間才能達到這個階段。

In terms of production, if you ask me today, I'd say, we pursue a less capital-intensive licensing model, because we are busy building factories for the consumer stuff. But I don't know, Farhan, if you want anything more to add.

在生產方面，如果你今天問我，我會說，我們追求資本密集度較低的許可模式，因為我們正忙於為消費品建造工廠。但我不知道，法爾漢，你還想補充什麼。

No, I think, yeah, I like that covers it, Raj. I think overall, when I think about the EV market. The value proposition that we are bringing there is, hey, we have IP that has got value to this market. We don't want to commit a lot of capital. We are very limited in how much R&D we are spending. So the idea there is that we will have a limited amount of investment. We'll take our IP, and then we'll have our customers pay for a lot of the development expenses. And then as this technology ramps, we will try to keep it such that we also don't have to invest a lot of money in this market, because we have other areas that we are investing, like consumer electronics.

不，我想，是的，我喜歡這樣的說法，拉傑。當我考慮電動車市場時，我認為總體而言。我們帶來的價值主張是，嘿，我們擁有對這個市場有價值的智慧財產權。我們不想投入大量資金。我們的研發支出非常有限。所以我們的想法是我們的投資金額有限。我們將拿走我們的智慧財產權，然後讓我們的客戶支付大量的開發費用。然後，隨著這項技術的發展，我們將盡力維持它，這樣我們就不必在這個市場上投入大量資金，因為我們還有其他領域正在投資，例如消費性電子產品。

So, we will, of course, remain flexible. And if other business models make sense, we'll look at them. But right now, the focus would be to use some licensing royalty model and let our customers make the investment.

因此，我們當然會保持靈活性。如果其他商業模式有意義，我們會研究它們。但現在，重點是使用一些許可版稅模型並讓我們的客戶進行投資。

But as I said, like, you know, the exact model will remain flexible. But as I sit here today, most likely, it seems like licensing royalty is like the way that we want to go.

但正如我所說，確切的模型將保持靈活性。但當我今天坐在這裡時，很可能，許可使用費似乎就是我們想要走的路。

This is one other thing I'll add is the fact that we have now two EV OEMs doing it clearly validates the value proposition that we're talking about. And that's really exciting. And of course, we're continuing to figure out other people who want to do that, too.

我要補充的另一件事是，我們現在有兩家電動車原始設備製造商在這樣做，這清楚地驗證了我們正在討論的價值主張。這真的很令人興奮。當然，我們正在繼續尋找其他也想這樣做的人。

Bill Peterson, JPMorgan.

比爾彼得森，摩根大通。

In the press release, you guided to a meaningful revenue growth in the second half relative to the first half. Can you speak to the various drivers between your conventional business acquired from Routejade versus early IoT revenue? And maybe any revenue from sampling the customers. And then how should we assume the corresponding margin profile looks with this ramp again, presuming this is mix dependent?

在新聞稿中，您指導下半年的收入相對於上半年實現了有意義的成長。您能否談談從 Routejade 收購的傳統業務與早期物聯網收入之間的各種驅動因素​​？也許還有來自對客戶抽樣的任何收入。然後我們應該如何假設相應的裕度曲線再次與此斜坡相關，並假設這是混合相關的？

Yeah, so in terms of the revenue ramp, like from Q3 to Q4, there's going to be a significant ramp. And it'll be driven by both Routejade and our batteries coming out of Malaysia and whatever we are getting from sampling. Some of those batteries and some service related item that are related to the milestones that we have.

是的，就收入成長而言，從第三季到第四季度，將會出現顯著的成長。它將由 Routejade 和我們來自馬來西亞的電池以及我們從樣品中獲得的任何東西來驅動。其中一些電池和一些與我們擁有的里程碑相關的服務相關項目。

The growth, though, most -- I would say more driven by Routejade than the new stuff. But both will be contributors.

不過，我想說，這種成長更多是由 Routejade 驅動的，而不是新產品。但兩人都將成為貢獻者。

In terms of the margins, there are a lot of moving pieces, it comes back to, hey, how the depreciation stuff hits in the Q4. But on the gross margin front, probably Q2 to Q4, you will have a lower gross margin because you have some of the increased depreciation related costs probably hitting. But, like exact, I won't be able to give you a lot of specifics around it because of the technical accounting related questions that are some of the just a little bit.

就利潤率而言，有很多變化，這又回到了第四季度折舊問題的影響。但在毛利率方面，可能是第二季度到第四季度，你的毛利率將會較低，因為你可能會受到一些與折舊相關的成本增加的影響。但是，就像確切的那樣，我無法向您提供很多細節，因為與技術會計相關的問題只是其中一些。

There are no further questions at this time. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Dr. Raj Talluri for closing remarks.

目前沒有其他問題。接下來，我想請 Raj Talluri 博士致閉幕詞。

Yeah. Thank you all for listening into the call. A really nice quarter and looking forward to talking to you guys next quarter. Thank you.

是的。感謝大家收聽電話。這是一個非常美好的季度，期待下個季度與你們交談。謝謝。