Ellington Financial Inc (EFC) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Please stand by. We're about to begin.

請稍候。我們即將開始。

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Ellington Financial second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Today's call is being recorded. (Operator Instructions)

女士們、先生們，早安。感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加艾靈頓金融公司2025年第二季財報電話會議。今天的通話將會被錄音。（操作說明）

Now, at this time, it is my pleasure to turn the call over to Alaael-Deen Shilleh, Associate General Counsel. Please go ahead, sir.

現在，我很高興將電話轉交給副總法律顧問 Alaael-Deen Shilleh。請繼續，先生。

Thank you. Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that this conference call may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements are not historical in nature and involve risks and uncertainties detailed in our annual and quarterly reports filed with the SEC.

謝謝。在會議開始前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議可能包含符合 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港條款規定的前瞻性聲明。這些陳述並非歷史事實，並且涉及風險和不確定性，這些風險和不確定性已在提交給美國證券交易委員會的年度和季度報告中詳細說明。

Actual results may differ materially from these statements, so they should not be considered to be predictions of future events. We undertake no obligation to update these forward-looking statements.

實際結果可能與這些陳述有重大差異，因此不應將其視為對未來事件的預測。我們不承擔更新這些前瞻性陳述的義務。

Joining me today are Larry Penn, Chief Executive Officer of Ellington Financial; Mark Tecotzky, co-Chief Investment Officer; and JR Herlihy, Chief Financial Officer. Our second quarter earnings conference call presentation is available on our website, ellingtonfinancial.com. Today's call will track that presentation, and all statements and references to figures are qualified by the important notice and endnotes in the presentation.

今天與我一同出席的有：艾靈頓金融公司首席執行官拉里·佩恩；聯合首席投資官馬克·特科茨基；以及首席財務官JR·赫利希。我們第二季財報電話會議的簡報已發佈在公司網站ellingtonfinancial.com上。今天的電話會議將沿用該簡報的內容，所有陳述和數據引用均以簡報中的重要提示和尾註為準。

With that, I'll hand it over to Larry.

這樣，我就把它交給拉里了。

Thanks, Alaael- Deen. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. We'll begin on slide 3 of the presentation. Ellington Financial delivered an excellent second quarter with broad-based contributions from both our diversified investment portfolio and our loan origination platforms.

謝謝，Alaael-Deen。各位早安，感謝大家今天收看我們的節目。我們將從簡報的第3張投影片開始。Ellington Financial 第二季業績表現出色，這得益於我們多元化的投資組合和貸款發放平台的廣泛貢獻。

For the quarter, Ellington Financial generated GAAP net income of $0.45 per share, equating to an annualized economic return of nearly 14%, with book value per share increasing quarter-over-quarter to $13.49.

本季度，艾靈頓金融公司以美國通用會計準則計算的淨收入為每股 0.45 美元，相當於年化經濟回報率接近 14%，每股帳面價值環比增長至 13.49 美元。

Meanwhile, our adjusted distributable earnings per share increased sequentially by $0.08 to $0.47, significantly exceeding our $0.39 of dividends per share. In a volatile but opportunity (inaudible) second quarter, Ellington Financial once again demonstrated the strength and adaptability of its platform.

同時，我們調整後的每股可分配收益環比增長 0.08 美元至 0.47 美元，遠超每股 0.39 美元的股息。在動盪但充滿機會（聽不清楚）的第二季度，艾靈頓金融再次展現了其平台的實力和適應能力。

Early in the quarter, as credit spreads widened amid tariff-related uncertainty, we were very well positioned as we had a large credit hedge portfolio coming into the quarter. In recent periods, we have tended to increase our corporate credit hedges somewhat in response to tighter corporate credit spreads, and then monetize some of those credit hedges it spreads wider.

本季度初，由於關稅相關的不確定性導致信貸利差擴大，而我們由於在本季度初擁有龐大的信貸對沖組合，因此處於非常有利的地位。最近，隨著企業信用利差收窄，我們傾向於增加企業信用對沖；而當利差擴大時，我們則會將部分信用對沖變現。

During market-wide negative credit shocks such as we saw in early April, our corporate credit hedges not only help stabilize our book value, but they also bolster our liquidity as we have daily access in cash to the mark to market gains on these positions.

在像 4 月初那樣的市場整體負面信貸衝擊期間，我們的企業信貸對沖不僅有助於穩定我們的帳面價值，而且還能增強我們的流動性，因為我們每天都能獲得現金，用於支付這些頭寸的市值收益。

During the April sell-off with markets dislocated and our liquidity position strong, we were well positioned to capitalize on the environment by adding attractively priced securities. That early April market volatility also helped guide our securitization activity.

4 月市場動盪，流動性狀況良好，我們得以趁機增持價格誘人的證券，以掌握市場機會。4月初的市場波動也對我們的證券化活動起到了指導作用。

Following a first quarter in which we executed five well-timed securitizations, we temporarily paused issuance during early April, and then we resumed activity only after spreads had stabilized. Our patient approach was rewarded as we ended up completing a full six securitizations over the course of the second quarter at attractive levels.

在第一季我們成功執行了五項適時證券化交易後，我們在 4 月初暫時停止了發行，之後在利差穩定後才恢復了發行活動。我們採取的耐心策略得到了回報，我們在第二季以令人滿意的價格完成了全部六項證券化交易。

As a result of all this activity, our overall portfolio size remained roughly unchanged quarter-over-quarter. Securitizations, tactical sales, and steady principal repayments from our short term loans were largely offset by opportunistic purchases and growth in our mortgage loan portfolios, particularly in non-QM, proprietary reverse, and commercial mortgage bridge.

由於所有這些活動，我們的整體投資組合規模環比基本保持不變。證券化、戰術性銷售以及短期貸款的穩定本金償還，很大程度上被抵押貸款組合的機會性購買和增長所抵消，尤其是在非合格抵押貸款、專有反向抵押貸款和商業抵押貸款過渡貸款方面。

Turning back to our adjusted distributable earnings. As I noted, we reported a terrific $0.08 increase this quarter to $0.47 per share. That very strong result reflected both steady credit performance from our loan portfolio, as well as standout contributions from our loan origination platforms, most notably $0.13 in ADE contributions from Longbridge.

回到我們調整後的可分配收益。正如我之前提到的，本季我們實現了每股收益 0.08 美元的顯著成長，達到 0.47 美元。這一非常強勁的業績反映了我們貸款組合的穩定信貸表現，以及我們貸款發起平台的突出貢獻，尤其是 Longbridge 提供的 0.13 美元 ADE 貢獻。

Longbridge's strong quarter was driven by solid performance across all components of its business. Origination profits driven by volume growth and stable margins in both Heckam and proprietary reverse, securitization gains reflecting a successful proper reverse securitization transaction in May and servicing income driven by recurring MSR revenue and strong tail securitizations.

Longbridge本季業績強勁，得益於其業務各組成部分的穩健表現。貸款發放利潤由 Heckam 和自有反向證券化業務的成交量增長和穩定的利潤率推動；證券化收益反映了 5 月份成功的正規反向證券化交易；服務收入由經常性抵押貸款服務權收入和強勁的尾部證券化業務推動。

We also benefited from notably strong performance from our non-QM originator affiliates, [Lnsure] and American Heritage underpinned in each case by high origination volumes and continued solid operating margins.

我們也受惠於非合格抵押貸款發起機構附屬公司 [Lnsure] 和 American Heritage 的出色表現，這兩家公司都實現了高貸款量和持續穩健的營業利潤率。

Given our equity stakes in these originators, their profitability contributed nicely to EFC's bottom line for the quarter. But more importantly, we continue to earn robust net interest income from the non-QM loans and retained non-QM tranches we hold on balance sheet, many of which continue to be sourced from these two affiliates of ours.

鑑於我們持有這些貸款機構的股權，它們的獲利能力對 EFC 本季的利潤做出了不錯的貢獻。但更重要的是，我們繼續從資產負債表上持有的非合格抵押貸款和保留的非合格抵押貸款部分中獲得強勁的淨利息收入，其中許多收入仍然來自我們的這兩家關聯公司。

Meanwhile, we continue to expand our strategic originator partnerships. During the quarter, we closed on another equity investment in a non-QM and RTL originator. This strategic investment was accompanied by our typical forward flow agreement with that originator, consistent with our strategy of securing ongoing access to high quality loans at attractive pricing and on a predictable timeline.

同時，我們持續擴大與策略發起機構的合作關係。本季度，我們完成了對一家非合格抵押貸款和RTL貸款發起機構的另一筆股權投資。這項策略性投資伴隨著我們與該貸款發起機構簽訂的典型遠期貸款協議，這符合我們以優惠的價格和可預測的時間表持續獲得高品質貸款的策略。

With that, I'll turn the call over to JR to walk through our financial results in more detail. JR?

接下來，我將把電話交給 JR，讓他更詳細地介紹我們的財務表現。JR？

Thanks Larry. Good morning everyone. For the second quarter, we reported GAAP net income of $0.45 for common share on a fully marked to market basis, an ADE of $0.47 per share. On slide 5 of the deck, you can see the portfolio income breakdown by strategy. $0.61 per share from credit, negative $0.01 from agency, and $0.11 from Longbridge.

謝謝你，拉里。大家早安。第二季度，我們以完全市值計算的普通股GAAP淨收入為每股0.45美元，每股收益為0.47美元。在簡報的第5頁，您可以查看按策略劃分的投資組合收益明細。信貸投資每股收益0.61美元，機構投資每股虧損0.01美元，Longbridge投資每股收益0.11美元。

And on slide 6 you can see the ADE breakdown by segment. $0.56 per share from the investment portfolio segment and $0.13 per share from the Longbridge segment. In the credit portfolio, net interest income grew sequentially, and we also had net realized and unrealized gains on non-QM loans and retained tranches, closed in second lien loans and retain tranches, and other loans and ABS. Positive results from equity investments and loan originators further supported results.

在第6張投影片中，您可以看到ADE按業務板塊的細分情況。投資組合板塊每股收益為0.56美元，Longbridge板塊每股收益為0.13美元。在信貸組合中，淨利息收入環比增長，我們還獲得了非合格抵押貸款和保留檔的已實現和未實現淨收益，完成了第二留置權貸款和保留檔，以及其他貸款和資產支持證券。股權投資和貸款發起機構的積極成果進一步支撐了業績。

Partially offsetting higher earned interest income were net unrealized losses on Ford MSRs and losses on residential and commercial REO. Our agency portfolio, meanwhile, had a modest loss as agency yield spreads were volatile and finished the quarter wider overall.

部分抵消了較高利息收入的是福特抵押貸款服務權的未實現淨損失以及住宅和商業房地產的損失。同時，由於機構收益率差波動較大，且本季整體有所擴大，我們的機構投資組合出現了小幅虧損。

The Longbridge segment had an excellent quarter both in terms of GAAP net income and ADE with strong contributions from both originations and servicing. In originations, higher origination volumes in both Heckham and proprietary reverse loans, steady origination margins for both products, and net gains related to a proprietary reverse mortgage loan securitization drove results.

Longbridge 業務部門本季表現優異，GAAP 淨收入和 ADE 均表現突出，貸款發放和服務業務均貢獻強勁。在貸款發放方面，Heckham 貸款和自有反向貸款的發放量增加，兩種產品的發放利潤率保持穩定，以及與自有反向抵押貸款證券化相關的淨收益推動了業績成長。

Meanwhile, MSR-related income, strong tail securitization executions, and the net gain on the HMBS MSR equivalent primarily due to tighter HMDS yield spreads drove the positive contribution from servicing. These gains were partially offset by net losses on interest rate hedges.

同時，MSR 相關收入、強勁的尾部證券化執行以及 HMBS MSR 等價物的淨收益（主要由於 HMDS 收益率差收窄）推動了服務業務的積極貢獻。這些收益部分被利率對沖的淨損失所抵銷。

Turning now to portfolio changes during the quarter. Slide 7 shows a 1% increase of our adjusted long credit portfolio to $3.32 billion quarter-over-quarter. Our portfolios of commercial mortgage bridge loans, non-QM loans, and non-agency RMBS all expanded, driven by net purchases.

接下來我們來看看本季投資組合的變化。投影片 7 顯示，我們調整後的長期信貸組合季增 1%，達到 33.2 億美元。在淨購買的推動下，我們的商業抵押貸款過橋貸款、非合格抵押貸款和非機構RMBS組合均有所擴大。

These increases were largely offset by the impact of securitizations, tactical sales of (inaudible) and non-QM loans, and a smaller residential transition loan portfolio with principal paydowns in that portfolio exceeding new purchases.

這些成長在很大程度上被證券化、策略性出售（聽不清楚）和非合格抵押貸款以及較小的住宅過渡貸款組合（該組合中的本金償還額超過了新購房額）的影響所抵消。

In addition, we successfully resolved a larger non-performing commercial mortgage asset during the quarter and now have only one significant workout remaining. Meanwhile, for our RTL commercial mortgage and consumer loan portfolios, we received total principal paydowns of $248 million during the second quarter, which represented 15% of the combined fair value of those portfolios coming into the quarter as the short duration portfolios continued to return capital steadily and provide excellent visibility on evolving credit trends.

此外，我們在本季成功解決了一筆較大的不良商業抵押貸款資產，目前只剩下一個重大債務重組項目。同時，我們的 RTL 商業抵押貸款和消費貸款組合在第二季度共收到 2.48 億美元的本金償還，佔該季度初這些組合合併公允價值的 15%，因為短期組合繼續穩步返還資本，並提供了對不斷變化的信貸趨勢的良好可見性。

On slide 8, you can see that our total long agency RMBS portfolio, while still small increased by 5% to $269 million. Slide 9 illustrates that our Longbridge portfolio decreased by 1% sequentially to $546 million as the impact of the securitization of proprietary reverse mortgage loans completed during the quarter slightly exceeded the impact of new originations in that sector.

從第 8 張投影片可以看出，我們的長期機構 RMBS 投資組合總額雖然仍然很小，但成長了 5%，達到 2.69 億美元。投影片 9 顯示，由於本季完成的自有反向抵押貸款證券化的影響略大於該領域新發放貸款的影響，我們的 Longbridge 投資組合環比下降 1% 至 5.46 億美元。

Please turn next to slide 10 for a summary of our borrowings. At June 30, the total weighted average borrowing rate on recourse borrowings decreased by 2 basis points to 6.07% overall, with a notable 15 basis points decline on credit borrowings.

請翻到第 10 張投影片，查看我們的借款狀況概要。截至 6 月 30 日，有追索權借款的總加權平均借款利率下降 2 個基點至 6.07%，其中信貸借款利率顯著下降 15 個基點。

Quarter-over-quarter, the net interest margin on our credit portfolio increased by 21 basis points, while the NIM on agency decreased by 17 basis points. With the size of our overall investment portfolio largely unchanged quarter-over-quarter, our leverage ratios were unchanged as well.

與上一季相比，我們的信貸組合淨利差增加了 21 個基點，而機構貸款淨利差減少了 17 個基點。由於我們的整體投資組合規模與上一季相比基本保持不變，我們的槓桿率也保持不變。

At both March 31 and June 30, our recourse debt to equity ratio was 1.7:1, and including consolidated securitizations, our overall debt to equity ratio was 8.7:1. At June 30, combined cash and unencumbered assets increased to about $920 million or more than 50% of our total equity. Our total economic return for the second quarter was 3.3% non-annualized, and our book value per share increased to $13.49.

截至3月31日及6月30日，我們的追索權負債權益比率均為1.7:1，若計入合併證券化資產，我們的整體負債權益比率為8.7:1。截至6月30日，現金及未抵押資產合計增至約9.2億美元，占我們總權益的50%以上。第二季總經濟報酬率為 3.3%（非年化），每股帳面價值增至 13.49 美元。

As has consistently been the case, we carry no goodwill on our balance sheet, despite having made select corporate acquisitions over the years, and we do not recognize any deferred tax assets. As a result, our reported book value is a fully tangible book value.

與以往一樣，儘管多年來我們進行了一些精選的企業收購，但我們的資產負債表上沒有商譽，我們也不確認任何遞延所得稅資產。因此，我們報告的帳面價值是完全有形的帳面價值。

With that, I'll pass it over to Mark.

這樣，我就把麥克風交給馬克了。

Thanks, JR, I'm very happy with our performance this quarter. It feels to me like EFC has shifted into a new gear. We had broad-based contributions across the investment portfolio, including from our investments and originators and a significant contribution from the Longbridge segment. Despite paying a generous dividend, book value per share increased.

謝謝JR，我對我們本季的業績非常滿意。我覺得EFC已經進入了一個新的階段。我們的投資組合得到了廣泛的貢獻，包括來自我們投資和發起人的貢獻，以及來自 Longbridge 板塊的重大貢獻。儘管支付了豐厚的股息，但每股帳面價值卻有所成長。

Over the past decade we have methodically and thoughtfully assembled the building blocks of vertical integration, and that architecture is now coming through in full force in our GAAP earnings, ADE and securitization volumes.

過去十年，我們有條不紊、深思熟慮地建構了垂直整合的基礎架構，而這項架構現在正全面體現在我們的 GAAP 收益、ADE 和證券化交易量中。

Along the way, we have taken equity stakes in several mortgage originators and have nurtured their growth. Our portfolio of originator affiliates is growing market share, generating significant loan volumes for EFC, and operating highly profitably.

在此過程中，我們收購了多家抵押貸款發起機構的股權，並促進了它們的發展。我們的貸款發起機構附屬公司組合正在擴大市場份額，為 EFC 創造了可觀的貸款量，並且盈利能力很強。

We have deliberately constructed Ellington Financial's loan business so that our investments and mortgage originators can secure a steady pipeline of high quality loans which through the securitization process we can turn into high yielding investments for our portfolio.

我們精心建立了艾靈頓金融的貸款業務，以便我們的投資和抵押貸款發起人能夠獲得穩定的高品質貸款來源，並透過證券化流程將這些貸款轉化為我們投資組合中的高收益投資。

And now thanks to a robust origination portal developed by our technology team, EFC is purchasing non-term loans from a wider range of lenders who access our competitive pricing and seamless workflow through a web-based platform.

現在，由於我們技術團隊開發的強大的貸款發起入口網站，EFC 正在從更廣泛的貸款機構購買非定期貸款，這些貸款機構可以透過基於網路的平台獲得我們具有競爭力的價格和無縫的工作流程。

Our loan volume growth is enabling more frequent securitizations, which both reduces market risk and creates those high yielding retained investments for our portfolio. Each incremental securitization also expands the universe of loans on which we benefit from valuable call options and strengthens our brand as a best in class securitization platform.

貸款規模的成長使得證券化更加頻繁，這不僅降低了市場風險，也為我們的投資組合創造了高收益的留存投資。每一次證券化措施都會擴大我們從中受益的貸款範圍，並增強我們作為一流證券化平台的品牌形象。

A well branded platform is a huge competitive advantage. It enables us to lower our liability costs relative to our competitors, sharpen our pricing, and acquire the loans we find most attractive. One highlight this quarter is that we were able to increase both ADE and net interest margin while keeping our overall portfolio size largely unchanged.

打造良好的品牌平台是一項巨大的競爭優勢。它使我們能夠降低相對於競爭對手的負債成本，提高定價能力，並獲得我們認為最有吸引力的貸款。本季的一大亮點是，我們在維持整體投資組合規模基本不變的情況下，提高了平均每日淨收益和淨利差。

One important driver of this improvement in efficiency comes from our expanding portfolio of high yielding securitization retained tranches, which contribute outsized ADE. We completed six securitizations this quarter, a record for EFC. These transactions replace repo financing with non-mark to market long-term financing, enhancing the stability of our balance sheet, and guarding against potential funding shocks.

提高效率的一個重要驅動因素是我們不斷擴大的高收益證券化保留份額組合，這些份額貢獻了超額的 ADE。本季我們完成了六項證券化交易，創下了 EFC 的紀錄。這些交易以非以市值計價的長期融資取代回購融資，增強了我們資產負債表的穩定性，並防範了潛在的融資衝擊。

What's more, as our warehouse lenders see the consistency of our deal executions, they are able to provide EFC with more favorable financing terms on our warehouse lines. In commercial real estate lending, our bridge loan business is back in growth mode with more high quality properties to lend against and more sponsors we want to work with. Our partnership with Sheridan Capital has been instrumental in driving this expansion.

此外，由於我們的倉儲貸款方看到了我們交易執行的一致性，他們能夠為 EFC 提供更優惠的倉儲信貸融資條款。在商業房地產貸款方面，我們的過橋貸款業務已恢復成長，我們擁有更多高品質的房產可供抵押，也希望與更多發起人合作。我們與謝裡丹資本的合作對推動這項擴張起到了至關重要的作用。

As with non-QM, we have also successfully lowered our financing costs for this product. As our lenders recognize both our expanding footprint and the quality of our collateral and sponsors, as with no, lower financing spreads for our commercial bridge business have been a great tailwind for our net interest margin. So we are expanding NIM from both sides of the equation by adding high yielding assets, including more retained tranches and more commercial bridge loans.

與非QM產品一樣，我們也成功降低了該產品的融資成本。由於我們的貸款機構認可了我們不斷擴大的業務範圍以及我們抵押品和擔保人的質量，因此，我們商業過橋貸款業務的融資利差降低，這對我們的淨息差產生了巨大的推動作用。因此，我們正在透過增加高收益資產（包括更多留存份額和更多商業過橋貸款）從等式的兩邊擴大淨利差。

And by lowering our funding costs in multiple parts of the portfolio. As a result, we were able to expand the NIM on our credit portfolio by 21 bps in the quarter, despite the general tightening of asset spreads in the market.

透過降低投資組合中多個部分的融資成本。因此，儘管市場資產利差普遍收窄，但我們本季仍能夠將信貸組合的淨利差擴大 21 個基點。

This quarter also featured strong earnings contributions from our portfolio of originator affiliates. EFC provides our affiliates with consistent and competitive loan pricing. Our originator affiliates have been used that pricing power to grow both market share and profitability while our investments in these mortgage originators have been highly profitable even in the current interest rate environment, they could be even more profitable should interest rates decline meaningfully from here when I expect both volumes and operating margins to expand significantly.

本季度，我們的發起機構附屬公司組合也貢獻了強勁的獲利。EFC 為我們的關聯公司提供穩定且具競爭力的貸款定價。我們的貸款發起機構利用這種定價權擴大了市場份額和獲利能力，即使在當前的利率環境下，我們對這些貸款發起機構的投資也獲得了豐厚的利潤。如果利率從目前水準大幅下降，預計交易量和營業利潤率都將大幅成長，屆時這些投資的利潤可能會更高。

There was a lot of action in the past few months at FHFA, including major turnover at the Fannie Mae and Freddie boards. If, as expected, the footprint of the GSE's shrink, that door will open further for Ellington Financial to expand into a whole host of new loan sectors that Fannie and Freddie Mac pull back from.

過去幾個月，FHFA 發生了許多變動，包括房利美和房地美董事會的重大改組。如果如預期那樣，GSE 的規模縮小，那麼這扇門將進一步為 Ellington Financial 敞開，使其能夠擴展到房利美和房地美正在撤出的各種新的貸款領域。

These market changes could have the potential to broaden our securitization platform and allow us to deploy capital in some very deep but also very profitable new areas. But there are always things to be careful about. First on our mind is home price appreciation. Weakness in home prices once more localized is now more widespread.

這些市場變化有可能擴大我們的證券化平台，並使我們能夠將資本部署到一些非常深入但也有利可圖的新領域。但總是有一些事情要注意。我們首先考慮的是房價升值。房價疲軟的現象曾經侷限於局部地區，如今已蔓延至更廣泛範圍。

We are monitoring this closely and believe we are appropriately pricing for the risk. With last week's job report prompting revisions to many economic forecasts, the odds have increased for lower interest rates, offering some HBA support. Meanwhile, our research team continues to study monthly remittance reports in detail.

我們正在密切關注此事，並認為我們已對風險進行了適當的定價。由於上週的就業報告促使許多經濟預測進行了修正，利率走低的可能性增加，這為HBA提供了一定的支撐。同時，我們的研究團隊繼續對每月匯款報告進行詳細研究。

Lastly, as we grow our loan volumes, we need to stay laser focused on execution. We know we have to provide consistent pricing and best in class service to our origination partners and ensure that our securitization process remains a well-oiled machine. We also need to closely and vigilantly analyze incoming data so we can adjust our lending guidelines in real time in response to signs of weakness in housing or consumer health.

最後，隨著貸款規模的成長，我們需要始終專注於執行。我們知道，我們必須為發起合作夥伴提供一致的定價和一流的服務，並確保我們的證券化流程始終高效運作。我們還需要密切、警覺地分析收到的數據，以便能夠根據住房或消費者健康狀況的疲軟跡象，即時調整我們的貸款準則。

Now back to Larry.

現在回到拉里這邊。

Thank you, Mark. EFC's GAAP earnings and ADE have exceeded our dividends so far in 2025, and I am confident that trend will carry through the back half of the year. Building on that momentum, our third quarter is off to a great start with four securitizations priced so far, bringing our year-to-date total to 15. We continue to see strong performance across both our investment portfolio and our origination platforms.

謝謝你，馬克。截至目前，EFC 的 GAAP 收益和 ADE 已超過 2025 年的股息，我相信這一趨勢將在今年下半年持續維持。乘著這股勢頭，我們的第三季開局良好，目前已有四項證券化產品定價，使我們今年迄今的總數達到 15 項。我們的投資組合和專案發起平台均持續保持強勁的業績表現。

Longbridge's momentum has also carried right into the third quarter with July setting a new high for originations in 2025. We are particularly excited about the recent launch of Longbridge's HELOC for Seniors program, which we believe has the potential to become a meaningful contributor to ESC's earnings.

Longbridge 的發展勢頭也延續到了第三季度，7 月創下了 2025 年貸款發放的新高。我們對 Longbridge 最近推出的老年人房屋淨值信用額度計劃感到格外興奮，我們相信該計劃有可能成為 ESC 收益的重要貢獻者。

While we haven't talked much about it before today, Mark mentioned the clear benefits we're seeing from the recent rollout of Ellington's non-QM loan origination portal, which enables our approved non-QM sellers to lock in loan sales to EFC through a fully automated web-based platform.

雖然我們之前沒有過多討論過，但馬克提到了埃靈頓最近推出的非合格抵押貸款發起門戶網站所帶來的明顯好處，該網站使我們已批准的非合格抵押貸款賣家能夠通過完全自動化的網絡平台鎖定向 EFC 的貸款銷售。

This proprietary technology not only enables us to significantly scale our non-QM loan purchase volumes, but at the same time it delivers real-time market feedback to our loan origination partners and ultimately streamlines the entire underwriting process.

這項專有技術不僅使我們能夠大幅擴大非合格抵押貸款的購買量，同時還能為我們的貸款發起合作夥伴提供即時市場回饋，並最終簡化整個承銷流程。

Our non-QM portal has enabled us to expand and further diversify our origination footprint by deepening relationships with both affiliate and non-affiliate originators alike, with new origination partners signing onto the platform virtually every week.

我們的非合格抵押貸款入口網站使我們能夠透過加深與附屬和非附屬貸款機構的關係，擴大和進一步多元化我們的貸款業務範圍，幾乎每週都有新的貸款合作夥伴加入該平台。

Looking ahead to the remainder of the year, EFC is truly firing on all cylinders now, and so I'm really optimistic that we will continue to both comfortably cover our dividend and grow book value per share. As you can see on the bottom of slide 3, we're doing this even while keeping our liquidity position strong and our recourse leverage low, thus providing us with ample capacity to jump on any extraordinary opportunities as they emerge like we saw in April.

展望今年剩餘時間，EFC 目前正全力運轉，所以我非常樂觀地認為，我們將繼續輕鬆地支付股息並提高每股帳面價值。正如您在幻燈片 3 的底部所看到的，我們這樣做是為了保持強勁的流動性和較低的追索權槓桿，從而使我們有足夠的能力抓住任何出現的特殊機會，就像我們在 4 月份看到的那樣。

Finally, we are also committed to further strengthening our liability structure not only through additional securitizations, but also by strategically increasing our unsecured borrowings over time.

最後，我們也致力於進一步加強我們的負債結構，不僅透過額外的證券化，而且還透過隨著時間的推移策略性地增加我們的無擔保借款。

With that, let's open the floor to Q&A. Operator, please go ahead.

接下來，讓我們進入問答環節。操作員，請開始。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Bose George, KBW.

博斯·喬治，KBW。

Hey guys, good morning. Can you talk about the outlook for Longbridge if rates decline, just how it helps the business, and then to the extent that volumes are increasing across the board for a lot of other asset mortgage types as well, how does that impact it do? Is there kind of a shift of attention for some of the producers to other loan types, or yeah, just you can just walk through that.

嘿，各位，早安。您能否談談如果利率下降，Longbridge 的前景如何？利率下降將如何幫助公司業務？此外，如果其他許多資產抵押貸款類型的交易量也在全面增加，這對 Longbridge 又會產生什麼影響？一些生產商是否正在將注意力轉移到其他貸款類型上，或者，是的，你可以直接走過來。

Thanks Bose. I'll handle the part about Longbridge and then I'll pass it over to Mark for the second half of your question.

謝謝 Bose。關於朗布里奇的部分我會處理，然後我會把您問題的後半部分交給馬克來回答。

So yeah, so declining rates would absolutely help Longbridge in a couple of different ways. So first of all, the what in the reverse business is known as the the principal factors, I believe, basically the percentage of the home value that a borrower is able to take out, of course, that's going to depend on the borrower's age, right, the older the borrower the higher percentage of that effectively the higher LTV starting LTV they'll be able to have on that mortgage.

所以，利率下降肯定會在幾個方面幫助朗布里奇。首先，在反向計算中被稱為主要因素的，我認為，基本上是指借款人能夠提取的房屋價值百分比，當然，這取決於借款人的年齡，對吧？借款人年紀越大，這個百分比就越高，實際上，他們能夠獲得的抵押貸款的初始貸款價值比（LTV）也就越高。

So as rates decline, okay, those principal factors increase because it's all done via a present value calculation, mostly based upon where the 10 year treasury is. So, and as you can imagine, reverse mortgages become more attractive, the more that borrowers are able to take out. And this is true for the HECM product where basically HUD dictates what the -- what those principal factors are principal balance factors, and it's also true for a proprietary product because again we're going to base things on long term where long term rates are as well.

所以隨著利率下降，這些主要因素就會增加，因為這一切都是透過現值計算完成的，主要依據是 10 年期公債的價格。因此，正如你所想，借款人能夠獲得的貸款越多，反向抵押貸款就越有吸引力。對於 HECM 產品也是如此，基本上 HUD 規定了這些主要因素（即本金餘額因素），對於專有產品來說也是如此，因為我們將再次基於長期利率來制定政策。

So we'll absolutely see more activity and that's what we've seen a very strong correlation in the past. As rates drop, especially the 10 year treasury in particular, the amount that borrowers respectively they starting LTV increases, and that definitely entices borrowers to take out more reverse mortgages and of course, increases the loan balance in each one that they take out.

所以我們肯定會看到更多活動，而過去我們也已經看到兩者之間有非常強的相關性。隨著利率下降，尤其是 10 年期公債利率下降，借款人的初始貸款價值比 (LTV) 就會增加，這無疑會誘使借款人申請更多的反向抵押貸款，當然，這也會增加他們每筆反向抵押貸款的貸款餘額。

Of course, when you've got fixed rate loans as well and we have both types in our portfolio as rates drop, you're also going to have a lot of refinance activity and I would note that Longbridge's market share has increased over the past several years.

當然，當我們的投資組合中同時包含固定利率貸款和固定利率貸款時，隨著利率下降，也會出現大量的再融資活動。我注意到，朗布里奇的市場份額在過去幾年中有所增長。

So you're talking about capturing a larger percentage of the entire universe, including loans that were originated, probably from some lenders that are now out of business. I would note that we actually, having seen the, if you will, the directionality of Longbridge's business, and they're killing it right now even with rates where they are today.

所以你的意思是要涵蓋更大比例的整個市場，包括那些可能來自現在已經倒閉的貸款機構的貸款。我想指出的是，我們實際上已經看到了 Longbridge 的業務發展方向，即使在目前的利率水平下，他們也取得了巨大的成功。

We actually have a a specific hedge in the Longbridge segment, basically recognizing this phenomenon. So as rates have gone up, we make money on the hedge and as rates go down, we lose money on the hedge, but that's offset by greater origination refi activity.

實際上，我們在 Longbridge 板塊設有專門的對沖策略，主要就是為了回應這種現象。因此，隨著利率上升，我們透過對沖獲利；隨著利率下降，我們透過對沖虧損，但這會被更多的貸款發放再融資活動所抵銷。

And then I'll pass it to Mark for the second half of your question.

然後我會把問題後半段交給馬克來回答。

Yeah, hey, Bose, could you repeat the second half again?

嘿，Bose，你能再重複一次後半部嗎？

Yeah, the second half was just if volumes pick up, a lot of the other mortgage asset classes. I was just curious whether, some of the originators shift to other things or are a lot of the folks you deal with dedicated to the product?

是的，下半年主要考慮的是交易量是否會回升，以及其他許多抵押貸款資產類別。我只是好奇，有些創辦人會轉行做其他事情，還是說你接觸的大多數人都對產品忠心耿耿？

So the originator stakes we have, they are focused almost exclusively on non (technical difficulty) and then to a lesser extent residential transition lending. I think what you have seen though is some of the larger non-banks doing more non-QM origination at a time when agency volumes are very low. So what I would expect to happen if rates were to drop from here, you might see a shift from some of the non-banks to focus more on their core agency business and less on non-QM, but for the originators we're working with, they're really non-QM, primarily focused all the time.

因此，我們擁有的發起人股份幾乎完全集中在非（技術難度）貸款上，其次是住宅過渡貸款。我認為你所看到的，是一些規模較大的非銀行機構在代理業務量非常低的時候，增加了非合格抵押貸款的發放量。因此，如果利率從這裡繼續下降，我預計一些非銀行機構可能會將重心更多地放在核心代理業務上，而減少對非合格抵押貸款（non-QM）的關注。但對於我們合作的貸款發起機構而言，他們實際上一直主要專注於非合格抵押貸款業務。

Okay, great. And then actually just a question on your outlook for home prices to the extent home prices, continue to moderate, maybe negative, do you think that, that's a possibility or just how do you think that or the likelihood of that happening and then just what your thoughts are on what that could do to credit spreads?

好的，太好了。那麼，關於您對房價前景的看法，如果房價繼續趨於溫和，甚至出現負增長，您認為這有可能嗎？或者您認為這種情況發生的可能性有多大？您認為這會對信貸利差產生什麼影響？

Yeah, if I think back and we have this -- We have an internal portal we use which gets data from a variety of sources and then it aggregates it and we can use that to really zoom in on local markets and if I think about what we're seeing now versus six months ago and I mentioned this in the prepared remarks, six months ago we saw some weakness in home prices. It was fairly localized, Gulf Coast of Florida, Gulf Coast of Texas, maybe San Francisco.

是的，如果我回想一下，我們有一個內部入口網站，它從各種來源獲取數據，然後進行匯總，我們可以利用這些數據來深入了解當地市場。如果我回想一下我們現在看到的情況與六個月前的情況，我在準備好的發言稿中也提到過，六個月前我們看到房價出現了一些疲軟。疫情範圍相當局限，主要集中在佛羅裡達州墨西哥灣沿岸、德州墨西哥灣沿岸，可能還有舊金山。

And if I look at that now, I would say the areas where we're seeing weakness are more broad-based. We attribute it to a combination of factors. One, I think the most obvious one is that home prices have gone up a lot. So, there's affordability challenges just in the price of the home. But then on top of that you've seen rising taxes and insurance costs in some areas which are exacerbating the affordability issue. So, we are pricing for it.

如果我現在來看，我認為我們看到的弱點領域更加廣泛。我們認為這是多種因素共同作用的結果。首先，我認為最明顯的一點是房價大幅上漲。因此，單就房價而言，就存在著負擔能力的挑戰。但除此之外，一些地區的稅金和保險成本也在上漲，這加劇了住房負擔能力問題。所以，我們正在進行定價。

We monitor it very closely. In terms of a forecast for HPA nationally. I think, HPA for the next year on a national basis is going to be fairly muted, a couple percent. I think what's notable is that you've seen a lot of forecasters dialing down their HPA assumptions. So I would say that six months to a year ago we were probably a little bit more bearish than most forecasters. I'd say right now we're probably sort of middle of the pack because we've kind of kept our, we sort of expected this weakness has come to fruition.

我們會密切注意。就全國HPA的預測而言。我認為，未來一年全國的HPA成長幅度將相當平緩，大概只有幾個百分點。我認為值得注意的是，許多預測者都降低了對高海拔地區（HPA）的假設。所以我覺得，六個月到一年前，我們可能比大多數預測者都要悲觀。我認為我們現在大概處於中游水平，因為我們一直有所保留，我們也預料到這種弱點會顯現出來。

If you look at non-QM delinquencies now versus where they were, say, in 2020, delinquencies are definitely higher. I think for the first five or six years of the life in non-QM, and it's a relatively new product, right? So really started 2016. So 2016 to 2021, I think the performance was shockingly good and as a result you've seen a lot of upgrades of tranches.

如果將現在的非合格抵押貸款違約率與 2020 年的違約率進行比較，違約率肯定會更高。我認為在非品質管理系統下，它的前五、六年都是如此，而且它還是一個相對較新的產品，對吧？所以，一切真正開始於2016年。所以，從 2016 年到 2021 年，我認為業績好得驚人，因此你會看到很多批次的升級。

I would say now it's sort of more performing in line with expectations. So delinquencies have gone up from, if you think about how much credit enhancement you have in securitizations, you still have huge amounts of credit enhancement relative to expected losses. So you've seen securitization spreads hold in well, but performance is more normalized than what it was three or four years ago.

我覺得它現在的表現基本上符合預期。所以，違約率有所上升，但考慮到證券化中信用增級的程度，相對於預期損失而言，信用增級的數額仍然非常巨大。所以，你可以看到證券化利差保持良好，但其表現比三、四年前更正常了。

Okay, great. Thanks.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Chrispin Love.

克里斯平洛夫。

On loan originator platforms definitely been some more activity and deals in the mortgage originator space broadly so curious if you're seeing more opportunities brought to you directly. Sounds like you added one in the quarter, maybe be interested in adding more. So what areas could those be to build on the current platform of [9QO] and RTL today?

貸款發起平台上的抵押貸款發起業務確實更加活躍，交易也更加頻繁，所以很好奇你是否也看到了更多直接向你拋出的橄欖枝。聽起來你這季新增了一個，或許有興趣再增加一些。那麼，在[9QO]和RTL目前的平台上，我們可以在哪些領域進行拓展呢？

The playbook we've used is, we've generally made equity investments in platforms that we've worked with for a while. Platforms where there's been ongoing dialogue about how they think about credit, how they think about underwriting, some of the more high profile transactions you've seen this year. Those have been bigger, more established platforms that require a more significant check.

我們採用的策略是，我們通常會對我們合作了一段時間的平台進行股權投資。一些平台一直在就信貸理念、承銷理念等問題展開對話，今年也出現了一些備受矚目的交易。這些都是規模更大、更成熟的平台，需要更嚴格的審查。

We have like on the non-QM side and the RTL side, smaller checks, securing some volume and then growing that originator by virtue of sort of the economic, sort of the economic EFC can bring to the table in terms of guaranteeing warehouse lines and things like that.

就像在非QM方面和RTL方面一樣，我們會進行較小的檢查，確保一定的銷量，然後透過經濟效益，透過EFC在保證倉儲線路等方面所能帶來的經濟效益，來發展這個發起人。

And also sharing with these platforms what we're seeing in terms of credit performance as a function of guidelines, maybe doing forward trades with them. So I think for us we'll continue to see opportunities. I think it's less likely you'd see us make a significant acquisition in non-QM that would require a large check only because we've been able to secure volume with a different model of a small check and then put in some sweat equity and that's worked out well for us.

此外，我們也會與這些平台分享我們根據指導方針觀察到的信貸表現情況，或許還會與他們進行遠期交易。所以我認為我們還會繼續看到各種機會。我認為，我們不太可能在非合格市場進行需要大筆資金投入的重大收購，因為我們已經能夠透過小額資金投入不同的模式來獲得業務量，然後投入一些人力物力，這對我們來說效果很好。

Yeah, just to add on that, Mark, I agree with you 100%. We, if you look at the ratio of the volume that we secure from one of these investments to the investment itself, right? It's been very large and we like that as compared to some of these other higher profile transactions you've seen where it wouldn't be nearly as efficient if you will.

是的，馬克，我補充一點，我百分之百同意你的觀點。如果我們來看看我們從這些投資中獲得的收益與投資本身的比率，對吧？這筆交易規模非常大，我們很喜歡這一點，相比之下，你看到的一些其他備受矚目的交易效率就低得多。

So we're not trying to build. I mean, our portfolio of investments in these types of companies is on the order of magnitude of $60 million JR or something like that, not counting Longbridge, yeah, $60 million, $70 million odd million.

所以我們並不是在嘗試建造。我的意思是，我們在這類公司的投資組合規模大約有 6000 萬美元左右，還不包括 Longbridge，是的，6000 萬到 7000 萬美元。

Longbridge is an exception, right, because that is a unique company. And again, the investment there, majority of that of that investment in the platform is in MSRs, which are a yield bearing asset for us. So in any case, yeah, we like the playbook that we've acted on so far and I don't see us writing any huge checks to buy originators, which would create some cyclicality as well.

Longbridge是個例外，對吧，因為那是一家獨一無二的公司。此外，該平台的大部分投資都投入了抵押貸款服務權（MSR）中，這對我們來說是一種產生收益的資產。總之，是的，我們喜歡我們目前為止所採取的策略，而且我認為我們不會花大價錢收購貸款發起機構，因為這也會造成一些週期性波動。

Great, thank you. I appreciate all that. And then can you just share your latest on credit quality? I know you had some bridge multi-family workouts. I think there's just one left today. So just there is some progress there, current view on the credit portfolio, and then also just what's the drag on net interest income today from the workouts.

太好了，謝謝。我非常感激。那麼，您能否分享一下您最新的信用品質狀況？我知道你們進行過一些橋牌多家庭運動。我想今天只剩下最後一個了。所以目前在信貸組合方面取得了一些進展，同時也需要了解重組對目前淨利息收入造成的拖累情況。

JR, you want to, take that?

JR，你想…拿走嗎？

Sure. Okay, hopefully we don't have that feedback. Right, so I made the point that we just have one significant workout remaining after working one out in 2Q. We do have some other delinquent loans that are working through the process of resolution but none of which we see as significant drags on earnings besides that one that identified.

當然。好的，希望我們不會收到這樣的回饋。沒錯，所以我的觀點是，在第二季完成一次重要的訓練後，我們只剩下一次重要的訓練了。我們還有一些其他的逾期貸款正在透過解決程序處理，但除了已經確定的那筆貸款之外，我們認為其他貸款都不會對收益造成重大拖累。

The one identified is more than $30 million for value and it's, and we've talked about it in the last previous few calls that it's going to take a little while and we're working through it, but it's a longer term horizon for the resolution most likely, but otherwise, your resolutions are moving through the pipeline quickly, in our (inaudible) show delinquency percentages for resi and commercial, as we always do in MD&A and in notes, and you'll be able to see trends that are continuing we are seeing some percentages that don't necessarily reflect the speed at which we resolve and importantly the high kind of recovery percentage if you will, given the delinquency.

已確定的這筆債務價值超過 3000 萬美元，我們在之前的幾次電話會議中也討論過，這需要一些時間，我們正在努力解決，但很可能需要較長時間才能解決。除此之外，您的債務解決方案正在快速推進。在我們的（聽不清楚）報告中，我們展示了住宅和商業的拖欠率，就像我們在管理層討論與分析 (MD&A) 和備註中一貫的做法一樣，您可以看到一些趨勢仍在持續。我們看到一些百分比不一定反映出我們解決問題的速度，更重要的是，考慮到拖欠率，我們目前的回收率仍然很高。

So we think the best measure is looking at both together. So temporary delinquencies in the context of ultimate resolution proceeds and so our realized losses, which is kind of the product of those two continue to be extremely low across all of these resi and commercial loan strategies.

所以我們認為最好的衡量方法是將兩者結合起來考慮。因此，在最終解決方案收益的背景下，暫時的違約以及我們實現的損失（這兩者的乘積）在所有這些住宅和商業貸款策略中仍然非常低。

Yeah, and that on that $30 million workout, it's now gotten to the point where we're getting very close to break even on that. So let's call it less than [$1]a year of drag, but then once we've, replaced that with one of our, and redeployed that capital into one of our typical strategies, then, you're looking at probably another $0.04 a year on the positive side. So that'll be a nickel per year, not per quarter, but per year swing that we sort of look forward to as a 20 -- by 2026, right? This is not a 2025 event to resolve that loan, but I'm optimistic that it's a 2026 event.

是的，那筆 3000 萬美元的訓練計劃，現在已經接近收支平衡了。所以，我們姑且稱之為每年不到 1 美元的拖累，但是一旦我們用我們的一種策略替換了它，並將這筆資金重新部署到我們的一種典型策略中，那麼，你每年可能會看到另外 0.04 美元的正面收益。所以，這將是每年五美分，而不是每季五美分，我們期待到 2026 年能實現 20% 的成長，對吧？解決這筆貸款問題預計不會在 2025 年發生，但我樂觀地認為會在 2026 年發生。

Great, I appreciate it and thanks for the color.

太好了，非常感謝，也謝謝你提供的顏色。

Trevor Cranston, Citizens JMP.

Trevor Cranston，Citizens JMP。

Okay, thanks. Question on Longbridge. Larry, you briefly mentioned the new HELOC for seniors product that they're offering. I was wondering if you could provide some color on kind of what that product is and how it differs from sort of a traditional [PLOC].

好的，謝謝。關於朗布里奇的問題。拉里，你剛才簡要地提到了他們推出的面向老年人的新型房屋淨值信用額度貸款產品。我想請您詳細介紹一下這款產品是什麼，以及它與傳統產品有何不同。[PLOC]。

And then the second part of the question, with with the momentum you're seeing at Longbridge in general. Has there been a change in how you guys are thinking about sort of the long term run rate earnings contribution from them and if you could maybe comment on how that potentially flows through to your thinking about the dividend level. Thanks.

然後是問題的第二部分，關於您在朗布里奇看到的整體發展勢頭。你們對這些公司長期獲利貢獻的看法是否有改變？能否談談這種改變可能會如何影響你們對股利水準的考量？謝謝。

Sure, yeah, I mean, I think a few quarters ago we were optimistic that Longbridge would be contributing $0.09 of [80] a quarter. Obviously that's been, we've beaten that, and I am cautiously optimistic that we're going to continue to beat that. This HELOC for seniors program may not kick in right away obviously, but I think it could be a big seller.

當然，是的，我的意思是，我認為幾個季度前，我們樂觀地認為 Longbridge 每季度將貢獻 0.09 美元 [80]。顯然，我們已經克服了這個問題，我謹慎樂觀地認為我們將繼續克服這個問題。這項面向老年人的房屋淨值信用額度計劃可能不會立即生效，但我認為它可能會非常受歡迎。

It's basically similar to other reverse products, right, in that, there's, no maturity that's a date specific, right, but it doesn't have negative amortization the way that other reverse products do. So yeah, so, it's just, the pressure of a fixed maturity date, right, isn't there. And yeah, so I think that handles both parts of your question.

它基本上與其他反向抵押貸款產品類似，對吧，因為沒有特定日期的到期日，對吧，但它不像其他反向抵押貸款產品那樣有負攤銷。所以，是的，問題在於，沒有固定到期日的壓力，對吧。是的，我想這已經回答了你問題的兩個部分。

Okay, got it. Thank you, guys.

好的，明白了。謝謝大家。

Doug Harter, UBS.

道格·哈特，瑞銀集團。

Thanks, and, good morning. You talked about, kind of keeping your leverage low in the current environment waiting for opportunities, how are you thinking about, kind of the ability if loan volume picks up to kind of handle regular way increase. Do you need to kind of raise more capital to do that and what is your appetite to do that?

謝謝，早安。您提到在當前環境下保持較低的槓桿率，等待機會，那麼如果貸款量增加，您如何看待應對常規增長的能力？你需要籌集更多資金來實現這個目標嗎？你對此有多大的意願？

Yeah, well, I think the very last part of my closing remarks alluded to, I think looking at our capital structure, I think we could use more unsecured debt. So I think that's the logical, that would be the logical next step for us and just now really forward-looking, but over time it would be great if more and more of the debt side of our balance sheet was longer term unsecured debt.

是的，嗯，我想我在總結發言的最後一部分也提到了，從我們的資本結構來看，我認為我們可以增加無擔保債務。所以我認為這是合乎邏輯的，對我們來說也是合乎邏輯的下一步，而且現在確實具有前瞻性，但隨著時間的推移，如果我們的資產負債表債務部分越來越多的是長期無擔保債務，那就太好了。

The debt markets, both, high yield and investment grade are much tighter spreads, especially for newer issuers than they were not that long ago. So I think it could be great for a company like us to replace a lot of our shorter term funding with longer term unsecured debt and we could keep our leverage low, but we could also deploy that capital and assets that are yielding more, certainly more than the debt is if you look at where spreads are.

與不久前相比，高收益債券和投資等級債券的利差都收窄了許多，尤其是對於新發行人而言。所以我認為，對於像我們這樣的公司來說，用長期無擔保債務取代大量的短期融資可能是一件好事，這樣我們既可以保持較低的槓桿率，還可以部署收益更高的資本和資產，當然，如果你看看目前的利差，收益肯定比債務要高。

So that's what we would look forward to doing, and a lot of the markets, if it becomes sort of a virtuous cycle as we get better execution on our unsecured notes, then those unsecured notes start yielding. As far as cost of funds go, become competitive with our repo and warehouse financing. So, and obviously, much better in terms of a capital structure and than having the short term debt on the balance sheet. So that's kind of looking very long term, I think, aspirationally where you want to go. And there are other companies in the states that have successfully done that.

所以這就是我們期待要做的事情，如果隨著我們無擔保票據的執行情況越來越好，形成一種良性循環，那麼很多市場就會開始產生收益。就資金成本而言，要與我們的回購和倉儲融資方案競爭。所以，顯然，就資本結構而言，這比在資產負債表上持有短期債務要好得多。所以我覺得，這其實是一種非常長遠的展望，是你想要達到的理想目標。美國還有其他一些公司也成功地做到了這一點。

Great. I mean, I guess do you, how scalable do you think that is in the in the near term and how deep do you think the kind of that market would be for you to kind of look to increase the size of that.

偉大的。我的意思是，我想問您，您認為短期內這種模式的可擴展性如何？您認為這個市場有多大，才值得您考慮擴大規模？

Oh, the market is very deep, and that's not the issue, and so I think it's just a question of, yeah, I think the market's there for us. So it's just a question of of getting it done, and, yeah, so I'll just leave it at that.

哦，市場非常大，這不是問題所在，所以我認為問題就在於，是的，我認為市場對我們來說是存在的。所以現在的問題就是如何完成這件事，嗯，我就說到這裡吧。

Great. Appreciate it.

偉大的。謝謝。

Randy Binner, B Riley.

蘭迪·賓納，B·萊利。

Hey, thanks. I just have one mostly be covered at this point, but the -- just on your comments on FHFA and potential for the footprint of the GSEs to be smaller as it relates to non-QM it's something we've talked about and it's intuitive. My question is, can, would you be open to discussing a little bit like what that would look like more specifically, meaning, is it just more opportunities or is there the potential for new product types, new distribution instead of leveraging your existing.

嘿，謝謝。目前我只有一個問題基本上解決了，但是——關於您提到的 FHFA 以及 GSE 在非合格抵押貸款方面規模可能較小的問題，我們已經討論過，而且這很符合直覺。我的問題是，您是否願意更具體地討論一下這會是什麼樣子？也就是說，這只是更多的機遇，還是有可能開發新的產品類型、新的通路，而不是利用您現有的通路？

As we kind of march towards it seems inevitable that something's going to happen with Fannie and Freddie and there's headlines out literally while we've been on this call. Just be interested to like here like kind of the specifics of like what it might look like as a market opportunity specifically for Ellington.

隨著我們一步步走向，房利美和房地美發生一些事情似乎不可避免，而且就在我們通話期間，新聞頭條已經發布了。我只是想了解一下，對於艾靈頓來說，這可能是一個非常具體的市場機會。

Sure, this is Mark. If you look back historically at what percentage of loans that qualify for a Fannie Freddie guarantee fee actually go to Fannie Freddie?

當然，這是馬克。回顧歷史數據，符合房利美和房地美擔保費條件的貸款中，實際流向房利美和房地美的貸款比例是多少？

The number now is still actually relatively large, right, like pre-financial crisis. There were lots and lots of loans that were being securitized through the private labor market and the cost of credit enhancement in the private labor market was lower than the GSEs.

現在這個數字其實還是相對較大，對吧，就像金融危機前一樣。當時有大量的貸款透過私人勞動市場進行證券化，而私人勞動市場的信用增級成本低於政府支持企業 (GSE)。

And then you went through the financial crisis, private labor market froze up, spreads were very wide, the GSEs became kind of the only game in town, I'd say from 2010 to maybe 2015. Then you saw the rise in non-QM. Non-QM is interesting because it's really serving borrowers that do not qualify for a Fannie Freddie loan. It's Frannie Freddie right now. They're all full doc, W-2, W-21040 type underwrite.

然後，金融危機爆發，私人勞動市場凍結，利差非常大，政府支持企業（GSE）幾乎成了唯一的選擇，我想大概是從 2010 年到 2015 年這段時間。然後你會看到非量子力學的興起。非合格抵押貸款 (Non-QM) 很有意思，因為它真正服務於那些不符合房利美和房地美貸款條件的借款人。現在輪到弗蘭妮·弗雷迪了。它們都是全套文件，W-2、W-21040 類型的承保。

Non-rem does a lot of loans. Non-rem does a lot of debt service coverage ratio loans. You're lending to an LLC. So those are things that GSEs don't do. What we see is the most immediate opportunity, and we have added a little bit to the portfolio is, the GSEs have a cross subsidy mentality where they do not price the cost of their insurance strictly as a function of risk. It's not really risk-based pricing.

非房地產公司發放了大量貸款。非房地產公司做了很多債務償付比率貸款。你是在向有限責任公司貸款。所以這些都是政府支持企業不會做的事情。我們看到的最直接的機會，也是我們在投資組合中增加的一點，是政府支持企業（GSE）存在交叉補貼心態，它們並沒有嚴格按照風險來確定保險成本。這並非真正意義上的風險定價。

Some of their pricing decisions are guided by sort of their mission. So if you look at the pricing of the (inaudible) and the loan price adjustments on second homes and on investor properties, the cost of insurance there is far exceeds historical losses and far exceeds projection of future losses, right?

他們的一些定價決策受到其使命的某種指導。所以，如果你看一下第二套房屋和投資性房產的（聽不清楚）定價和貸款價格調整，你會發現那裡的保險成本遠遠超過了歷史損失，也遠遠超過了對未來損失的預測，對吧？

And it's in those areas where you've seen loans that are eligible for Fannie Freddie. They have a Fannie Freddie cert, they have FMI if they're over (inaudible). Those loans are now being bought by investors that choose to self-insure and take the extra spread or they're going into a private lab securitizations, right? So that's what I see as the most immediate opportunity set.

正是在這些地區，你會看到符合房利美和房地美貸款條件的貸款。他們有房利美和房地美的認證，如果他們超過一定限額，他們也有FMI（金融市場資訊）。（聽不清楚）現在，這些貸款正被選擇自保並承擔額外利差的投資者購買，或者被投入私人實驗室證券化，對嗎？所以，我認為這是眼下最直接的機會。

As you mentioned, there's been continuing headlines and continuing ideas put out there about the future of Fannie and Freddie. So I think we'll have to wait and see what happens there, but the most immediate tangible thing now that we're acting on are these second homes and investor loans that qualify for Fannie Freddie guarantee fees, but what Fannie and Freddie charge is far in excess of reasonable expectations of credit losses because they want to, they don't perceive those as core to their mission and they want to use profits on those loans to subsidize other loans that are more core to their mission.

正如您所提到的，關於房利美和房地美的未來，各種新聞報導和想法層出不窮。所以我覺得我們只能拭目以待，看看接下來會發生什麼事。但目前我們正在採取行動的最直接、最切實的事情是，這些符合房利美和房地美擔保費條件的第二套住房和投資者貸款，但房利美和房地美收取的費用遠遠超過了合理的信貸損失預期，因為他們並不認為這些貸款是他們的核心使命，他們想用這些貸款的利潤來補貼其他更符合他們核心使命的貸款。

Got it. Is that, I mean, is that why, I mean, like RTL is something y'all have done for a while, but it's just more kind of in vogue, I guess it seems like, is that just pricing increasingly for those is getting kind of inside that you see, right, so just going more to the private market, is that what's happening?

知道了。我的意思是，是不是因為這個原因，例如RTL（即時電視）這種模式你們已經做了一段時間了，但現在似乎更流行了，是不是因為RTL的定價越來越高，以至於你們都開始關注它的內部運作了，對吧？所以，RTL更多地轉向了私人市場，是這樣嗎？

You were you saying on RTLs, the residential transition loans? Yeah, that market is really a market Fannie and Freddie haven't been involved in. Those are typically (multiple speakers).

您剛才說的是關於RTL，也就是房屋過渡貸款嗎？是的，房利美和房地美確實沒有涉足那個市場。這些通常是（多位發言者）

I was talking about, yeah, sort of like, I was talking about, there's a house, it's fully renovated, someone wants to buy it and rent it out, and Fannie and Freddie historically have guaranteed a lot of those. The credit performance been excellent on them. But the low level price adjustments have been far in excess of reasonable loss expectations and you've seen the private label market step in and say, hey, wait, we'll take on that credit risk essentially at a lower cost.

我當時說的是，嗯，有點像，我當時說的是，有一棟房子，已經完全翻新過了，有人想買下來出租，而房利美和房地美歷來都為很多這類房產提供過擔保。他們的信貸表現非常出色。但低水準的價格調整遠遠超過了合理的損失預期，而且你已經看到自有品牌市場介入並表示，嘿，等等，我們將以更低的成本承擔這種信用風險。

Got it. Okay, that's helpful color. I appreciate it.

知道了。好的，這個顏色很有幫助。謝謝。

Sure, thank you.

當然，謝謝。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

Eric Hagen，BTIG。

Hey, thanks. Good morning. Following up on this, hey, good morning. Yeah, following up on this discussion here. I mean, would you say you're more constructive on the RTL space or that, non-MQ right now? I mean, it seems like the returns in RTL could be higher, but there's probably more stable, funding and, access to leverage for non-QM. So how should investors like adjust for those? Where would you say the better like risk adjusted return is in the market right now?

嘿，謝謝。早安.接著剛才的話題，嘿，早安。是的，接著這個討論繼續。我的意思是，您覺得您目前在 RTL 領域還是在非 MQ 領域更有建設性？我的意思是，RTL 的回報似乎可能更高，但對於非 QM 而言，資金可能更穩定，更容易獲得槓桿。那麼投資人該如何調整因應措施呢？您認為目前市場上風險調整後收益較好的投資標的在哪裡？

We like them both, and they've both had a big place in our balance sheet. I think Larry mentioned in his prepared remarks that we are exploring potentially doing an RTL securitization. Historically that's been a balance sheet product for us, so essentially funded with repo financing.

我們很喜歡它們倆，它們在我們的資產負債表中都佔據了重要地位。我認為拉里在他的準備好的演講稿中提到，我們正在探討進行RTL證券化的可能性。從歷史上看，這一直是我們的資產負債表產品，因此基本上是透過回購融資來提供資金的。

Now we're exploring, turning out that financing. I think there's more things you can do with non-QM, right? There's, you can hold loans on balance sheet with repo financing. You can do a securitization. You can take a vertical slice. You can take a horizontal slice, then you have these call options, maybe rates will drop or something will happen. You access the call option when you can. So the non-QM market gives you sort of a more fulsome opportunity sets of things you can do as an owner of the loans and as a sponsor of deals.

現在我們正在探索和籌集資金。我認為用非量子力學能做的事情更多，對吧？有的，你可以利用回購融資將貸款保留在資產負債表上。你可以進行證券化。你可以進行垂直切片。你可以進行水平切片，然後你就有了這些看漲期權，也許利率會下降或發生其他事情。您可以在方便的時候選擇通話選項。因此，非合格抵押貸款市場為您提供了更全面的機會，讓您作為貸款所有者和交易發起人可以做更多的事情。

But in terms of expected return, I don't see a material difference in them. I think they both, they serve different markets and they have a different role in the portfolio and but where the consistency for us is, we have liked having deep relationship either an equity stake or ongoing dialogue with most of the originators for each of those products that we find is really useful.

但就預期收益而言，我認為它們之間沒有實質區別。我認為它們服務於不同的市場，在投資組合中扮演著不同的角色，但對我們來說，始終如一的是，我們喜歡與大多數產品的發起人保持深厚的關係，無論是股權投資還是持續對話，我們都認為這非常有用。

You have a team. That's out on the road that's having literally daily discussions with the originators about what's going on with lending, what's going on with guidelines, what's going on with HPA, and that back and forth dialogue, I think has been, that's what's been consistent in my mind of both those sectors and, you know why we have the comfort level with each of them having a significant allocation of capital.

你有一個團隊。那就是每天在路上與貸款發起人討論貸款情況、指導方針、HPA 等相關事宜，我認為這種來回的對話，在我看來，正是這兩個領域一直以來保持一致的原因，也正是我們能夠放心地在它們各自分配大量資金的原因。

Yeah, and if I could just expand on that, Mark. So first of all, as Mark said, the securitization market is very developed now for non-QM, and it's become quite elastic as well, so that as spreads have tightened on the asset, spreads have also tightened really nicely on the liability. So, and that's something that we monitor very closely.

是的，馬克，如果我能再詳細說說就好了。首先，正如馬克所說，非合格抵押貸款證券化市場現在已經非常發達，而且彈性也很大，因此，隨著資產利差收窄，負債利差也很好地收窄了。所以，這是我們密切關注的事情。

We talked about this portal that we have and we very much will adjust the rates that we offer our -- the lenders that are providing us with product on that platform very much we'll adjust those, based upon where security where we see securitization spreads, and there are lots of non-QM securitizations we're getting information all the time.

我們討論了我們擁有的這個門戶網站，我們將根據證券化利差以及我們一直在獲取的大量非合格市場證券化信息，對在該平台上向我們提供產品的貸款機構提供的利率進行大幅調整。

So that product, I absolutely see us continuing to buy. We've also sold packages. We've sold, by the way, we're doing for a long time now we've been doing vertical risk retention as opposed to horizontal risk retention and what that means is that the sort of the riskier tranches of securities that we retain at issuance, we have the flexibility to sell those in the open market and we've done that, by the way, on occasion.

所以，我絕對認為我們會繼續購買這款產品。我們也出售過套餐。順便說一句，我們已經這樣做了很長時間，我們一直採用的是垂直風險自留而不是水平風險自留，這意味著我們在發行時保留的那些風險較高的證券，我們可以靈活地在公開市場上出售，而且我們偶爾也會這樣做。

So we've sold the horizontal risk that were, was freely changable because we did vertical risk retention. So the 90 market absolutely, I think will continue to be a part of our strategy. And RTL as well as Mark said, we are exploring securitizing that product we haven't done that. Would be a kind of revolver type structure. So I think, both markets have their advantages. I obviously a lot more liquid.

因此，我們出售了橫向風險，而橫向風險是可以自由變化的，因為我們進行了縱向風險自留。所以我認為，90市場絕對會繼續成為我們策略的一部分。RTL 和 Mark 都表示，我們正在探索將產品證券化，但我們還沒有這樣做。會是一種類似左輪手槍的結構。所以我認為，兩個市場各有優勢。我顯然需要更多的液體。

RTL shorter maturities which we like as well. So, and but as we mentioned on the prepared remarks, we are seeing after certainly the problems in the commercial bridge loan market overall that were there after the rise in rates in 2022 that now in a way has created lots of opportunities. We're seeing more non-performing loans in for the bid. We're seeing more bridge loan opportunities, good sponsors, good properties, so we've definitely been focusing a lot of our efforts there.

RTL的短期到期債券也是我們比較喜歡的。所以，正如我們在準備好的演講稿中提到的，我們看到，2022 年利率上升後，商業過橋貸款市場整體上確實存在一些問題，而這些問題現在在某種程度上創造了許多機會。我們看到越來越多的不良貸款參與競標。我們看到了更多的過橋貸款機會、優秀的贊助商和優質的房產，所以我們肯定已經把很多精力集中在了這方面。

Thank you guys so much for the color today.

非常感謝大家今天提供的色彩。

Thanks, Eric.

謝謝你，埃里克。

[Matthew Edner], Jones Trading.

[Matthew Edner]，Jones Trading。

Hey guys, how's it going? Sorry about that. So I guess, in terms of extended opportunities in the non-QM space. I know you mentioned, or sorry, not the non-QM space, but kind of the senior HELOCs there. What's the opportunities that that you're seeing there and kind of the plans for that product.

嘿，大家好，最近怎麼樣？抱歉。所以我想，就非量子力學領域的拓展機會而言。我知道你提到了，或者抱歉，不是非合格抵押貸款領域，而是高級房屋淨值信用額度貸款。您認為那裡有哪些機會？您對該產品有什麼規劃？

Well, we just rolled it out. I don't want to give any projections on where that could go, but it's a unique product, right? And we think, I think we're the only ones offering it, and if you just think about the simplicity in the way of that product, it makes a lot of sense, and we'll see how successful it is.

我們剛剛把它推出來了。我不想對它未來的發展方向做出任何預測，但它確實是一款獨特的產品，對吧？我們認為，我認為我們是唯一提供這種產品的公司，如果你仔細想想這款產品的簡單性，你會發現它非常有意義，讓我們看看它是否能成功。

It'll just be gravy obviously because like I said before, Longbridges, their results have been terrific and we continue to expect them to be so, but this could really add another dimension to that. So I'd rather not make any projections at this point, but the product makes a ton of sense.

這顯然只是錦上添花，因為正如我之前所說，Longbridges 的成績一直非常出色，我們繼續期待他們也能如此，但這可能會真正為他們帶來新的維度。所以我現在不想做任何預測，但這款產品確實很有意義。

Got it. That's helpful. And then JR, I was wondering if you could comment on how you're thinking about the dividend over earning this quarter, and if you and the board have to see that in intrajectory to allow it to grow or just kind of your thoughts there on what you're thinking around the dividend.

知道了。那很有幫助。JR，我想請您談談您對本季股息與獲利的看法，以及您和董事會是否需要關注股息的成長軌跡，或者您對股息的看法。

Sure, I'll take that actually. Thanks, Larry. We've been, as I said, our ADE and our GAAP are slow this year. It's covered the dividend. And, we're, I'm very optimistic and confident that it will continue to do so. As I said, we really are firing on all cylinders. So the next move, if there is a move, I think it'll be up. I would tell you that we've been fans of a very stable dividend. If you go back to 2018, I just looked so this was really over seven years ago.

好的，我接受。謝謝你，拉里。正如我所說，我們今年的 ADE 和 GAAP 指標都比較低。已經支付了股息。而且，我非常樂觀和自信，它將繼續這樣做。正如我所說，我們現在真的火力全開。所以，如果說下一步有什麼動作的話，我認為應該是上漲。我想說的是，我們一直都很喜歡非常穩定的股利。如果追溯到 2018 年，我剛才查了一下，這其實已經是七年多前的事了。

Our dividend was pretty close to where it was now. It was a quarterly dividend, not a monthly dividend. So I think we've done the right thing and kept our dividend very stable over what's a very long period of time. But I do think if there is a next move, it'll be up, but I really don't want to sort of forecast when that will be. Obviously that's a board decision to make and it's not, given the stability of our dividend, it would not be a decision that we would make lightly.

我們當時的股利水準和現在的水準非常接近。這是季度分紅，不是月度分紅。所以我認為我們做對了，並且在很長一段時間內保持了股息的穩定。但我認為，如果還有下一步動作，那肯定會是上漲，但我真的不想預測那會是什麼時候。顯然，這是董事會需要做出的決定，考慮到我們股利的穩定性，我們不會輕易做出這樣的決定。

I think, increasing the amount of unsecured notes on our balance sheet could be a catalyst for that as well, right, because, then that enables us to safe safely increase our leverage and create more ADE and dividend power if you will, that way. So I see, a lot of catalysts potentially for increasing dividend, but it's not something that, I want to try to put a specific time frame on.

我認為，增加資產負債表上的無擔保票據數量也可能成為推動這一目標的催化劑，對吧？因為這樣一來，我們就可以安全地提高槓桿率，從而創造更多的 ADE 和股息能力。所以我覺得有很多潛在的催化劑可以提高股息，但我不想為此設定一個具體的時間表。

Got it. That's very helpful there. And then, apologies if I missed it, but did you guys give a quarter to date book value update?

知道了。那很有幫助。還有，如果我錯過了的話，請見諒，你們有沒有發布本季迄今的帳面價值更新報告？

We've not yet. We'll do that later this month, the month of August in ordinary course, but we did talk about how Q3 is off to a good start with securitization volumes with the platforms doing well with Longbridge hitting its high month of the year, but we did not give a number yet, but we'll be doing so later this month.

我們還沒有。我們將在本月晚些時候，也就是八月份（按慣例），進行這項工作。但我們確實談到了第三季證券化交易量開局良好，各平台表現良好，Longbridge 的交易量達到了今年的最高水平，但我們還沒有給出具體數字，我們將在本月晚些時候公佈。

Yeah, the typical timing for that is what, maybe the fourth week of the month is typically when we put that out, yeah, something like that.

是的，通常情況下，我們會在每個月的第四週左右發布，差不多就是這樣。

Got it great. Thank you guys. That's all for me. I appreciate it.

收到了，很棒。謝謝大家。我就說這些了。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you and gentlemen, that was our final question for today, so that will bring us to the conclusion of today's call. We thank you all for participating in the Ellington Financial second quarter 2025 earnings call. You may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day. Goodbye.

謝謝各位，這是我們今天的最後一個問題，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝各位參加 Ellington Financial 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。現在您可以斷開線路了，祝您有美好的一天。再見。