Ellington Financial Inc (EFC) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Ellington Financial Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded. At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen only mode. The floor will be open for your questions following the presentation. (Operator Instructions)

早安，女士們先生們，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Ellington Financial 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天的通話正在錄音。此時，所有參與者均已置於僅聽模式。演示結束後，將開放供您提問。（操作員說明）

It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Alaael-Deen Shilleh. You may begin.

現在我很高興將電話轉給 Alaael-Deen Shilleh。你可以開始了。

Thank you. Before we start, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made during this conference call may constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements are non-historical in nature. As described under Item 1A of our annual report on Form 10-K and Part 2, Item 1A of our quarterly report on Form 10-Q.

謝謝。在開始之前，我想提醒大家，本次電話會議中所做的某些陳述可能構成 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》安全港條款含義內的前瞻性陳述。前瞻性陳述本質上是非歷史的。正如我們的 10-K 表格年度報告第 1A 項和 10-Q 表格季度報告第 2 部分第 1A 項所述。

Forward-looking statements are subject to a variety of risks and uncertainties that could cause the company's actual results to differ from its beliefs, expectations, estimates and projections. Consequently, you should not rely on these forward-looking statements as predictions of future events.

前瞻性陳述受到各種風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致公司的實際結果與其信念、期望、估計和預測不同。因此，您不應依賴這些前瞻性陳述作為對未來事件的預測。

Statements made during this conference call are made as of the date of this call. The company undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward-looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.

本次電話會議期間發表的聲明截至本次電話會議之日。本公司不承擔因新資訊、未來事件或其他原因而更新或修改任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

I am joined on the call today by Larry Penn, Chief Executive Officer of Ellington Financial; Mark Tecotzky, Co-Chief Investment Officer of EFC; and JR Herlihy, Chief Financial Officer of EFC.

艾靈頓金融公司 (Ellington Financial) 執行長拉里·佩恩 (Larry Penn) 也參加了今天的電話會議。 Mark Tecotzky，EFC 聯合首席投資長； JR Herlihy，EFC 財務長。

As described in our earnings press release, our first quarter earnings conference call presentation is available on our website at ellingtonfinancial.com. Management's prepared remarks will track the presentation. Please note that any references to figures in this presentation are qualified in their entirety by the end notes at the back of the presentation.

正如我們的收益新聞稿中所述，我們的第一季財報電話會議簡報可在我們的網站 ellingtonfinancial.com 上取得。管理層準備好的評論將追蹤簡報。請注意，本簡報中對圖表的任何引用均由簡報後面的尾註完整限定。

With that, I’ll now turn the call over to Larry.

這樣，我現在就把電話轉給拉里。

Thanks Alaael-Deen, and good morning, everyone. As always, thank you for your time and interest in Ellington Financial. I'll begin on slide 3 of the presentation. Perhaps the highlight of the quarter was the increase in our adjusted distributable earnings to $0.40 per share, which was a $0.07 increase from the second quarter and which covered our $0.39 in dividends for the quarter.

謝謝 Alaael-Deen，大家早安。一如既往，感謝您花時間關注艾靈頓金融。我將從簡報的第三張投影片開始。也許本季的亮點是我們調整後的可分配收益增加至每股 0.40 美元，比第二季度增加了 0.07 美元，覆蓋了本季 0.39 美元的股息。

The main driver of this quarter's increase in ADE was the contribution from our proprietary reverse mortgage business in our Longbridge segment, which included our second prop reverse securitization of the year. Back in the first quarter of this year, ADE in our Longbridge segment was actually negative, but it has increased each quarter since then, and it registered $0.12 per share in the third quarter.

本季 ADE 成長的主要動力是我們 Longbridge 部門的自營反向抵押貸款業務的貢獻，其中包括我們今年的第二項自營反向抵押貸款業務。早在今年第一季度，我們長橋部門的 ADE 實際上是負值，但此後每個季度都在增加，第三季度每股 0.12 美元。

Our Longbridge segment represents about 12% of our equity capital allocation, so it's great to see ADE having steadily improved in that segment. I've been consistently highlighting our Longbridge segment as holding significant untapped potential for Ellington Financial. Even if Longbridge's ADE can stabilize around $0.09 per share per quarter, we should be in excellent shape from a dividend coverage standpoint.

我們的 Longbridge 部門約占我們股本配置的 12%，因此很高興看到 ADE 在該部門穩步進步。我一直強調我們的長橋業務對艾靈頓金融來說擁有巨大的未開發潛力。即使長橋的 ADE 能夠穩定在每季每股 0.09 美元左右，從股息覆蓋率的角度來看，我們應該處於良好的狀態。

In the third quarter, Ellington Financials investment portfolio expanded as we utilized our strong balance sheet to continue growing our high yielding loan portfolios. For the quarter, our non-QM, RTL, commercial mortgage bridge, HELOC and closed end second lien loan portfolios increased by a combined 26%. That portfolio growth drove our overall leverage a bit higher to 1.8 times from 1.6 times even as we continued to shrink our lower yielding agency portfolio and maintain additional dry powder to invest.

第三季度，艾靈頓金融投資組合擴大，我們利用強大的資產負債表繼續擴大高收益貸款組合。本季度，我們的非 QM、RTL、商業抵押貸款橋、HELOC 和封閉式第二留置權貸款組合合計成長了 26%。儘管我們繼續縮減收益率較低的代理投資組合併維持額外的乾粉投資，但投資組合的成長推動我們的整體槓桿率從 1.6 倍略高至 1.8 倍。

At quarter end, our agency portfolio had shrunk another 14% sequentially and cash plus unencumbered assets totalled $765 million which was just under 50% of our total equity. Not surprisingly, much of the expansion of our loan portfolios has been a direct result of the loan origination businesses that we have cultivated across a variety of credit sectors and over a number of years.

截至季末，我們的代理投資組合又季減了 14%，現金加上未支配資產總計 7.65 億美元，略低於我們總股本的 50%。毫不奇怪，我們貸款組合的擴張很大程度上是我們多年來在各個信貸領域培育的貸款發放業務的直接結果。

Our originator relationships, including the equity stakes we hold in many loan originators and our emphasis on striking forward flow agreements with a diversified roster of originators have enabled us to adjust the acquisition volume and the underwriting criteria of our loan investments.

我們的發起人關係，包括我們在許多貸款發起人中持有的股權，以及我們對與多元化發起人名單達成遠期流量協議的重視，使我們能夠調整貸款投資的收購量和承銷標準。

This has enabled our loan portfolios to become among our largest, highest yielding, and best performing strategies. Meanwhile, the profits generated from originator equity stakes have been a nice boost to our earnings and book value, while also enhancing the diversification of our earnings stream. This continued in the third quarter with strong profits at Lend Shore and American Heritage Lending, where continued robust demand for non-QM loans drove strong origination volumes and wider origination margins.

這使我們的貸款組合成為我們規模最大、收益最高且表現最佳的策略之一。同時，發起人股權產生的利潤很好地提升了我們的獲利和帳面價值，同時也增強了我們收益來源的多元化。這種情況在第三季得以延續，Lend Shore 和 American Heritage Lending 利潤強勁，對非 QM 貸款的持續強勁需求推動了強勁的發放量和更大的發放利潤。

Recently, a loan portfolio expansion has also included adding meaningful exposure to the HELOC and closed end second lien sectors where we have both bought loans with an eye towards securitization, as well as participated as securitization co-sponsor with a large mortgage originator.

最近，貸款組合的擴張還包括增加對HELOC 和封閉式第二留置權領域的有意義的投資，我們在這些領域購買了著眼於證券化的貸款，並作為證券化共同發起人與大型抵押貸款發起人一起參與。

We currently see the retained tranches and call options from these securitizations as offering very attractive risk adjusted returns. The mortgage securitization markets are in great shape and in turn that's been great for Ellington Financial.

目前，我們認為這些證券化的保留部分和買權提供了非常有吸引力的風險調整回報。抵押貸款證券化市場狀況良好，這對艾靈頓金融公司來說是件好事。

During the third quarter, we priced a non-QM securitization that achieved AAA yield spreads near their two year lows. And as I mentioned earlier, we also completed a proprietary reverse mortgage securitization backed by loans originated by Longbridge with incrementally stronger execution than our inaugural deal earlier this year. Finally, even aside from these excellent securitization executions, we're also continuing to improve the rest of the liability side of our balance sheet.

第三季度，我們對非 QM 證券化進行了定價，其 AAA 收益率利差接近兩年低點。正如我之前提到的，我們還完成了由長橋發起的貸款支持的專有反向抵押貸款證券化，其執行力比我們今年早些時候的首次交易更強。最後，除了這些出色的證券化執行之外，我們還在繼續改善資產負債表負債的其餘部分。

Recently we've added new financing lines on non-QM loans, closed in seconds in HELOCs and consumer loans and before the end of the year, we expect to add several cost effective lines for our reverse mortgage business, as well as a new financing line on the forward MSRs that we acquired through the Arlington merger. We anticipate using some of the proceeds from these financing lines to replace some of our existing higher cost debt and floating rate preferred equity.

最近，我們在非QM 貸款上增加了新的融資額度，在HELOC 和消費貸款中幾秒鐘內就完成了，在年底之前，我們預計將為我們的反向抵押貸款業務添加幾條具有成本效益的額度，以及新的融資額度我們透過阿靈頓合併獲得的遠期 MSR 的線。我們預計將使用這些融資額度的部分收益來取代我們現有的一些成本較高的債務和浮動利率優先股。

For example, we announced yesterday that we are redeeming our Series E preferred stock that we inherited in the Arlington merger, which now carries a cost of funds of well over 10% following its fixed to floating rate conversion earlier this year.

例如，我們昨天宣布，我們將贖回我們在阿靈頓合併中繼承的 E 系列優先股，在今年稍早將固定利率轉換為浮動利率後，該股的資金成本目前遠超 10%。

These types of refinancing should be immediately accretive to earnings since in the current environment we see returns on equity, on incremental asset acquisitions reaching well into the teens. Meanwhile, with our overall leverage still low, we have additional capacity to issue more long-term unsecured debt and we look forward to doing so.

這些類型的再融資應該會立即增加收益，因為在當前環境下，我們看到增量資產收購的股本回報率已達到十幾歲。同時，由於我們的整體槓桿率仍然較低，我們有額外的能力發行更多長期無擔保債務，我們期待這樣做。

With that, I'll turn the call over to JR to discuss the third quarter financial results in more detail, JR.

接下來，我將把電話轉給 JR，更詳細地討論第三季的財務業績，JR。

Thanks, Larry, and good morning, everyone. For the third quarter, we are reporting GAAP net income of $0.19 per share on a fully mark-to-market basis and adjusted distributable earnings of $0.40 per share.

謝謝拉里，大家早安。第三季度，我們報告的 GAAP 淨利潤為每股 0.19 美元（完全按市值計算），調整後的可分配收益為每股 0.40 美元。

On slide 5, you can see the attribution of net income between credit agency and Longbridge. The credit strategy generated $0.45 per share of net income in the quarter, including associated financing costs and hedging gains losses.

在投影片5上，您可以看到信貸機構和長橋之間淨利的歸屬。該信貸策略在本季度產生了每股 0.45 美元的淨利潤，包括相關的融資成本和對沖收益損失。

We had strong net interest income and net gains from non-QM loans and retained tranches, non-agency RMBS, closed end second lien loans and CMBS. We also benefited from mark to market gains on our equity investments in Lend Shore and American Heritage Lending, which reflected strong performance at those originators driven by increased volumes and wider origination margins.

我們從非 QM 貸款和保留部分、非機構 RMBS、封閉式第二留置權貸款和 CMBS 中獲得了強勁的淨利息收入和淨收益。我們也受惠於 Lend Shore 和 American Heritage Lending 股權投資的按市值計算的收益，這反映出這些發起人在數量增加和發起利潤率擴大的推動下表現強勁。

Offsetting a portion of these gains were net losses on our consumer loan portfolio and a related equity investment in the consumer loan originator as well as negative operating income on certain non-performing commercial mortgage loans in REO.

我們的消費貸款投資組合和消費貸款發起人的相關股權投資的淨虧損以及 REO 某些不良商業抵押貸款的負營業收入抵消了部分收益。

Finally, we had a net loss on the great Ajax common shares we purchased in connection with last year's terminated merger. Meanwhile, despite strong results and originations, the Longbridge segment generated a GAAP net loss of $0.03 per share for the third quarter. But this net loss was driven by interest rate hedges as rates fell during the quarter.

最後，我們因去年終止合併而購買的大量阿賈克斯普通股出現了淨虧損。同時，儘管業績和創舉強勁，Longbridge 部門第三季的 GAAP 淨虧損為每股 0.03 美元。但這淨虧損是由利率避險造成的，因為本季利率下降。

We had a mark-to-market gain on our HMBS MSR equivalent, but this gain was muted by wider HMBS yield spreads, so the gain didn't keep pace with the net losses on interest rate hedges that we hold against this position. Wider HMBS yield spreads adversely affect the value of our HMBS MSR equivalent, because they lower the component of projected servicing income that stems from the right to fund and securitize future borrower draws.

我們的 HMBS MSR 等價物按市值計價獲得收益，但這種收益因 HMBS 收益率利差擴大而減弱，因此收益並沒有跟上我們針對該頭寸持有的利率對沖的淨損失。較大的 HMBS 收益率利差會對我們的 HMBS MSR 等值價值產生不利影響，因為它們降低了源自為未來借款人提款提供資金和證券化的權利的預計服務收入的組成部分。

In HECM originations, a decline in origination margins, also driven by wider HMBS yield spreads was partially offset by higher volumes, whereas in proper reverse originations results were boosted by the securitization we completed in July, along with improved origination margins and higher volumes, and this led to strong profits in that product line.

在HECM 發行中，發行利潤率的下降（同樣是由HMBS 收益率利差擴大所致）被交易量增加所部分抵消，而在適當的反向發行中，我們在7 月份完成的證券化以及發行利潤率的改善和交易量的增加，推動了結果。

In total, origination volume at Longbridge increased 16.5% sequentially even as industry-wide volumes were down overall for the quarter. Notably, Longbridge contributed $0.12 per share of ADE in the third quarter, driven by the strong quarter from property reverse. For the quarter, our agency strategy generated net income of $0.06 per share with net gains on our agency RMBS exceeding net losses on interest rate hedges.

總體而言，儘管本季全行業的交易量總體下降，但 Longbridge 的初始交易量仍比去年同期成長了 16.5%。值得注意的是，在房地產逆轉帶來的強勁季度推動下，長橋第三季為 ADE 貢獻了每股 0.12 美元。本季度，我們的代理策略產生了每股 0.06 美元的淨利潤，我們的代理 RMBS 的淨收益超過了利率對沖的淨損失。

In the quarter, interest rates fell the yield curve steepened and agency MBS yield spreads tightened as the market anticipated the beginning of the federal reserve's interest rate cutting cycle. Indeed in September, the Fed reduced the target range for the Fed funds rate by 50 basis points and also released updated projections that implied another 50 basis points of interest rate cuts later in 2024, although that expectation is no longer shared by the market.

本季，由於市場預期聯準會降息週期即將開始，利率下降，殖利率曲線陡峭，機構MBS殖利率利差收緊。事實上，聯準會在 9 月將聯邦基金利率目標區間下調了 50 個基點，並發布了最新預測，暗示 2024 年稍後將再降息 50 個基點，儘管市場不再認同這一預期。

Finally, our results for the quarter also reflect a net loss on our senior notes driven by the decline in rates. This loss was partially offset by a net gain, also driven by the decrease in interest rates on the fixed receiver interest rate swaps that we use to hedge the fixed payments on both our unsecured long-term debt and our preferred equity.

最後，我們本季的業績也反映出利率下降導致我們的高級票據出現淨虧損。這項損失被淨收益部分抵消，淨收益也是由於我們用來對沖無擔保長期債務和優先股固定付款的固定接收者利率掉期利率下降所致。

Turning to slide 6, you can see the breakout of ADE by segment. Here's where you can see the $0.12 per share contribution from Longbridge, which drove the overall increase in EFCs ADE to $0.40 per share for the quarter.

翻到幻燈片6，可以看到ADE按細分市場的突破。在這裡您可以看到 Longbridge 每股 0.12 美元的貢獻，這推動了本季度 EFC ADE 的整體成長至每股 0.40 美元。

Turning next to loan credit performance. In our residential mortgage loan portfolio, the percentage of delinquent loans decreased quarter-over-quarter in our commercial mortgage loan portfolio. The percentage of delinquent loans increased with four small balance commercial mortgage loans moving to 90 plus day delinquencies during the quarter. But I'll note that subsequent to quarter ends, one of those loans paid off at par plus all past due interest.

接下來轉向貸款信用表現。在我們的住宅抵押貸款組合中，商業抵押貸款組合中的拖欠貸款比例較上月下降。拖欠貸款的比例增加，本季有四筆小額商業抵押貸款拖欠天數達到 90 天以上。但我要指出的是，在季度末之後，其中一筆貸款按面值加上所有逾期利息還清。

Two, others are expected to resolve favourably in the fourth quarter and for the fourth, we believe that the property value roughly approximates the UPB. We also continue to work through these two larger non-performing multi-family bridge loans that we referenced last quarter. Moving into next year, we expect that resolutions of delinquent loans and REO together with redeployment of resolution proceeds will be a tailwind to ADE.

第二，其他預計將在第四季順利解決，我們認為第四季的房產價值大致接近 UPB。我們也繼續處理我們上季度提到的兩筆較大的不良多戶過橋貸款。進入明年，我們預計拖欠貸款和 REO 的決議以及決議收益的重新部署將成為 ADE 的推動力。

Next, please turn to slide 7, in the third quarter our total long credit portfolio increased by 19% to $3.25 billion as of September 30. The increase was primarily driven by net purchases of non-QM loans, closed end seconds, HELOCs, commercial mortgage bridge loans and non-agency RMBS. A portion of the increase was offset by smaller CLO and CMBS portfolios driven by net sales.

接下來請翻到投影片 7，截至 9 月 30 日，第三季我們的長期信貸投資組合總額增加了 19%，達到 32.5 億美元。這一增長主要是由非 QM 貸款、封閉式秒貸、HELOC、商業抵押貸款過橋貸款和非機構 RMBS 的淨購買推動的。部分成長被淨銷售推動的 CLO 和 CMBS 投資組合規模較小所抵銷。

For our RTL commercial mortgage and consumer loan portfolios, we received total principal paydowns of $318 million during the third quarter which represented 21% of the combined fair value of those portfolios coming into the quarter as those short duration portfolios continue to return capital steadily.

對於我們的RTL 商業抵押貸款和消費貸款投資組合，我們在第三季度收到的本金償還總額為3.18 億美元，佔本季度這些投資組合公允價值總和的21%，因為這些短期投資組合持續穩定地回報資本。

On slide 8, you can see that our total long agency RMBS portfolio declined by another 14% in the quarter to $395 million. We continue to sell down that portfolio and rotate the capital into higher yielding opportunities.

在投影片 8 上，您可以看到我們的長期機構 RMBS 投資組合總額在本季又下降了 14%，至 3.95 億美元。我們繼續拋售該投資組合，並將資本轉向更高收益率的機會。

Slide 9 illustrates that our Longbridge portfolio decreased by 5% sequentially to $494 million driven primarily by the completion of our securitization of property reverse mortgage loans, partially offset by new proprietary reverse mortgage loan originations during the quarter.

投影片9 顯示，我們的Longbridge 投資組合季減了5%，至4.94 億美元，這主要是由於我們完成了房地產反向抵押貸款證券化，部分被本季新推出的自營反向抵押貸款所抵消。

Please turn next to slide 10 for a summary of our borrowings. On our recourse borrowings, the total weighted average borrowing rate decreased by 21 basis points to 6.77% at September 30. We continue to benefit from positive carry on our interest rate swap hedges where we overall receive a higher floating rate and pay a lower fixed rate.

請翻到投影片 10，了解我們借的摘要。截至9月30日，我們的追索權借款總加權平均借款利率下降21個基點至6.77%。我們繼續受益於利率互換對沖的正利差，我們總體上獲得更高的浮動利率並支付更低的固定利率。

The net interest margin on our credit portfolio declined modestly quarter-over-quarter while the NIM on agency assets increased. Our recourse debt to equity ratio increased to 1.8:1 at September 30 up from 1.6:1 at June 30, primarily driven by an increase in borrowings on our larger credit portfolio, partially offset by a decrease in borrowings on our smaller agency portfolio, the proprietary reverse mortgage securitization, which converted certain recourse borrowings to non-recourse borrowings and an increase in shareholders’ equity.

我們信貸投資組合的淨利差較上季小幅下降，而機構資產的淨利差增加。我們的追索權債務與股本比率從6 月30 日的1.6:1 增至9 月30 日的1.8:1，主要是由於我們較大的信貸投資組合的借款增加，部分被我們較小的機構投資組合的借款減少所抵銷。

Our overall debt to equity ratio ticked up as well to 8.3:1 from 8.2:1. Since mid-June, we've added three new loan financing facilities that have increased total borrowing capacity by $550 million. At September 30, our combined cash and unencumbered assets totalled approximately $765 million roughly unchanged from June 30. Our book value per common share was $13.66 at quarter end and our total economic return was 0.9% non-annualized for the Q3.

我們的整體負債股本比率也從 8.2:1 上升至 8.3:1。自 6 月中旬以來，我們增加了三項新的貸款融資設施，使總借貸能力增加了 5.5 億美元。截至 9 月 30 日，我們的現金和未支配資產合計約為 7.65 億美元，與 6 月 30 日基本持平。截至季末，我們的每股普通股帳面價值為 13.66 美元，第三季的非年化總經濟報酬率為 0.9%。

Now over to Mark.

現在輪到馬克了。

Thanks, JR. This was a strong quarter for EFC. We had a lot of portfolio growth in our core strategies. That portfolio growth together with strong ADE at Longbridge helped our ADE cover our dividend, which has been a primary goal of ours. We had solid contributions from our core strategies that should be repeatable. Our origination partners continue to grow their franchises and gain market share, which helped us acquire the loans we like at attractive valuations and at the volumes we've been targeting.

謝謝，JR。對於 EFC 來說，這是一個強勁的季度。我們的核心策略中有很多投資組合成長。投資組合的成長加上長橋強大的 ADE 幫助我們的 ADE 支付了我們的股息，這一直是我們的主要目標。我們的核心策略做出了堅實的貢獻，這些貢獻應該是可重複的。我們的發起合作夥伴繼續擴大他們的特許經營權並獲得市場份額，這幫助我們以有吸引力的估值和我們一直目標的數量獲得我們喜歡的貸款。

The vertical integration of EFC was on full display this quarter. Our non-QM and RTL partners generally grew market share and increased profitability. These greater origination volumes allowed EFC to buy more loans with the credit profiles we seek. EFC's consistent loan pricing then allows our originators to offer more stable pricing to their broker and correspondent relationships, which makes them the counterparty of choice in many cases and helps them grow market share.

EFC的垂直整合在本季度得到了充分體現。我們的非 QM 和 RTL 合作夥伴普遍增加了市場份額並提高了盈利能力。這些更大的發放量使 EFC 能夠購買更多符合我們尋求的信用狀況的貸款。EFC 一致的貸款定價使我們的發起人能夠為其經紀人和代理關係提供更穩定的定價，這使他們成為許多情況下的首選交易對手，並幫助他們擴大市場份額。

With the securitization ARB is as attractive as it's been this year; our securitization team takes over right after EFC approaches a critical mass of purchase loans. For the quarter, non-agency mortgage bond spreads remained range bound and much tighter than much of last year.

隨著證券化，ARB 與今年一樣具有吸引力；在 EFC 達到一定數量的購買貸款後，我們的證券化團隊立即接手。本季度，非機構抵押貸款債券利差仍然在區間內波動，並且比去年大部分時間收窄得多。

Our securitization team optimizes deal structure based on investor preferences and rating agency feedback, including the deal that priced last week we've now completed three securitizations since the end of July, two of non-QM loans and one of proper verse loans.

我們的證券化團隊根據投資者偏好和評級機構反饋優化交易結構，包括上周定價的交易，自7 月底以來，我們現已完成三筆證券化，其中兩筆非QM 貸款和一筆正向貸款。

Securitizations serve three important objectives for EFC. Firstly, they allow us to replace short dated repo with match funded non-mark to market securitization financing that both lowers the cost of financing and reduces the risks of funding hiccups in margin calls.

證券化服務於 EFC 的三個重要目標。首先，它們使我們能夠以匹配資金的非以市場計價證券化融資取代短期回購，這不僅降低了融資成本，也減少了追加保證金中融資問題的風險。

Secondly, by leveraging loans with wide yield spreads with the investment grade bonds that we sell at tighter yield spreads, we manufacture high yielding retained tranches that are often more attractively priced than similar securities available in the secondary market, while also affording us with superior visibility and input on the credit profile.

其次，透過利用息差較大的貸款和我們以更窄的息差出售的投資等級債券，我們製造了高收益的保留部分，這些債券的定價往往比二級市場上的類似證券更具吸引力，同時也為我們提供了卓越的知名度並輸入信用檔案。

Thirdly, after a lockup period, these securitizations have call features which provide us with significant economic benefits if interest rates drop and or yield spreads tighten sufficiently. Another big trend for EFC this quarter is our growing presence in both the home equity line of credit market and the closed end second lien market.

第三，在禁售期之後，這些證券化具有贖回特徵，如果利率下降和/或收益率利差充分收緊，這些特徵可以為我們提供顯著的經濟利益。本季 EFC 的另一個大趨勢是我們在房屋淨值信貸額度市場和封閉式第二留置權市場的影響力不斷擴大。

To frame this opportunity, there's currently more than 30 trillion of home equity, much of which is controlled by homeowners with low fixed rate first lien mortgages. In fact, 85% of Fannie Freddie mortgages now have interest rates below current mortgage rates, and nearly 70% of those mortgages are at least 2% below current mortgage rates.

為了抓住這個機會，目前有超過 30 兆的房屋淨值，其中大部分由低固定利率第一留置權抵押貸款的房主控制。事實上，85% 的房利美抵押貸款現在的利率低於當前抵押貸款利率，其中近 70% 的抵押貸款比當前抵押貸款利率低至少 2%。

Over time, many of these borrowers will want to tap some of this home equity for a variety of reasons, like home renovation or debt consolidation without disturbing their first mortgage. Currently, the two dominant loan products to facilitate this equity extraction are fixed rate second lien loans and floating rate HELOCs.

隨著時間的推移，許多藉款人會出於各種原因希望利用部分房屋淨值，例如房屋裝修或債務合併，而不影響他們的第一筆抵押貸款。目前，促進股權提取的兩種主要貸款產品是固定利率第二留置權貸款和浮動利率 HELOC。

We have worked diligently to develop sourcing channels to acquire these products and have made a lot of progress in the past six months. Meanwhile, our research teams developed prepayment loss models for these products as a natural extension of our longstanding agency and non-agency models. Based on these efforts, we concluded that these growing sectors represent another attractive high-yielding sector of the mortgage market for EFC’s diversified credit portfolio.

我們努力開發採購管道來獲取這些產品，並在過去六個月中取得了巨大進展。同時，我們的研究團隊為這些產品開發了預付款損失模型，作為我們長期代理和非代理模型的自然延伸。基於這些努力，我們得出的結論是，這些不斷增長的行業代表了抵押貸款市場中對於 EFC 多元化信貸投資組合而言另一個有吸引力的高收益行業。

As you can see on slide 7, we not only bought CUSIPs back by second lien loans in the third quarter, but we also added both HELOCs and second lien loans to the portfolio. That's the slice of the pie labelled D, and our buying in these sectors has continued at a brisk pace post quarter end.

正如您在幻燈片 7 中看到的，我們不僅在第三季度透過第二留置權貸款回購了 CUSIP，而且還將 HELOC 和第二留置權貸款添加到了投資組合中。這是標記為 D 的那部分餡餅，我們在這些行業的購買在季度末後繼續快速增長。

Both second liens and HELOCs fit seamlessly into EFC’s portfolio as natural complements to our non-QM loan business. We have secured attractive financing terms so we can finance these loans and pocket a levered NIM.

第二留置權和 HELOC 都無縫融入 EFC 的投資組合，作為我們非 QM 貸款業務的自然補充。我們已經獲得了有吸引力的融資條款，因此我們可以為這些貸款提供資金並將槓桿淨利差收入囊中。

In addition, much like non-QM, we can also securitize these loans, selling investment grade bonds at terms we believe are more favourable to us than repo and retaining high yielding tranches for our investment portfolio. Just like non-QM these securitizations have valuable call features after a lockup period, which gives us the ability to refinance or sell the collateral down the road.

此外，與非量化管理非常相似，我們也可以將這些貸款證券化，以我們認為比回購對我們更有利的條款出售投資等級債券，並為我們的投資組合保留高收益部分。就像非 QM 一樣，這些證券化在鎖定期後具有有價值的贖回功能，這使我們能夠在未來進行再融資或出售抵押品。

Getting back to earnings, not only did our loan strategies have a good quarter, but we also had solid contributions from many of our CUSIP strategies such as CLOs, CMBS and other ABS. We also had meaningful contributions from our investments in loan originators, and while it continues to shrink, we also had a strong contribution from our agency MBS portfolio.

回到收益，我們的貸款策略不僅在季度表現出色，而且我們的許多 CUSIP 策略（例如 CLO、CMBS 和其他 ABS）也做出了堅實的貢獻。我們對貸款發起人的投資也做出了有意義的貢獻，雖然貸款金額持續萎縮，但我們的機構 MBS 投資組合也做出了巨大貢獻。

We did face some headwinds, however, we had some write downs in our consumer portfolio and a write down of our investment in the consumer loan originator but these were one-off events that should be behind us.

我們確實面臨一些阻力，但是，我們的消費者投資組合進行了一些減記，並減記了我們對消費貸款發起人的投資，但這些都是一次性事件，應該已經過去了。

We continue to work out a few non-performing assets and while those should not be a continuing drag on GAAP earnings, they will continue to be a modest drag on ADE until we can resolve the assets and redeploy the proceeds. Financing terms continue to improve for virtually all our assets and we continue to expand and broaden our financing relationships.

我們將繼續清理一些不良資產，雖然這些資產不會持續拖累 GAAP 收益，但在我們能夠解決這些資產並重新部署收益之前，它們將繼續對 ADE 造成適度拖累。我們幾乎所有資產的融資條件都在持續改善，並且我們繼續擴大和擴大我們的融資關係。

The combination of our stable credit portfolio with consistent and well received new issue securitization calendar has resulted in greater appetite among our repo lenders to provide us with repo financing and at more attractive terms, being able to negotiate better financing terms from our repo lenders drops directly to the bottom line GAAP earnings and ADE.

我們穩定的信貸投資組合與一致且廣受好評的新發行證券化日曆相結合，導致我們的回購貸款人更有興趣為我們提供回購融資，並以更具吸引力的條款，與我們的回購貸款人協商更好的融資條款的能力直接下降GAAP 盈利和 ADE 底線。

Q3 brought us the first fed cut in four years, even with the post-election surge in interest rates, the market is still pricing in a few more cuts, which should be a bit of a tailwind for ADE and spread products going forward.

第三季聯準會首次降息，儘管大選後利率飆升，但市場仍在消化更多降息的預期，這對 ADE 和利差產品的未來發展應該是一個推動力。

Spread products typically do quite well in an easing cycle and we still haven't really seen much of incremental bank demand for structured products, so there is certainly still room for spread tightening. At the same time, let's not forget that the rate cuts are in part a response to a slowing employment picture. We can't be complacent and we need to remain very focused on credit performance. We noted in our earnings release that our residential delinquency rate dropped in the third quarter.

利差產品通常在寬鬆週期中表現相當好，而且我們仍然沒有真正看到銀行對結構性產品的需求增量，因此利差肯定還有收緊的空間。同時，我們不要忘記，降息在某種程度上是對就業情勢放緩的回應。我們不能自滿，我們需要繼續非常關注信用表現。我們在財報中指出，我們的住宅拖欠率在第三季有所下降。

As the job market cools, we need to continue watching these metrics closely and tighten underwriting guidelines is necessary. We have already seen how higher debt costs, insurance costs and property taxes have been a challenge for some multifamily properties.

隨著就業市場降溫，我們需要繼續密切注意這些指標，並有必要收緊承保指南。我們已經看到，較高的債務成本、保險成本和財產稅對一些多戶住宅來說是一個怎樣的挑戰。

We've been moving up in file when our residential loan portfolios and are making good progress managing and stabilizing our few commercial assets that are under stress. I'm happy about our portfolio growth and the resulting ADE growth in the third quarter. I believe in time, resources, and effort we have put into our loan origination platforms can continue to deliver strong returns going forward.

我們的住宅貸款組合一直在歸檔，並且在管理和穩定我們少數處於壓力下的商業資產方面取得了良好進展。我對我們的投資組合成長以及由此產生的第三季 ADE 成長感到高興。我相信，我們在貸款發放平台上投入的時間、資源和努力可以繼續帶來豐厚的回報。

Now, back to Larry.

現在，回到拉里。

Thanks, Mark. It's great to see the growth of our adjusted attributable earnings during the third quarter, hand-in-hand with the continued expansion of our integrated loan origination businesses, which now effectively drive the returns of our investment portfolio.

謝謝，馬克。很高興看到我們第三季調整後權益收益的成長，與我們綜合貸款發放業務的持續擴張齊頭並進，這些業務現在有效地推動了我們投資組合的回報。

I believe that we've established genuine franchise value in our securitization businesses, where our EFMT shelf has now added two successful proprietary reverse securitizations to the 16 total non-QM securitizations that we have completed since 2017. Performance of our non-QM EFMT securitizations continues to be very strong, and we have rightfully earned a long roster of repeat investors in the tranches that we issue.

我相信，我們已經在證券化業務中建立了真正的特許經營價值，我們的EFMT 貨架現已在我們自2017 年以來完成的16 項非QM 證券化中增加了兩項成功的專有反向證券化。我們的非 QM EFMT 證券化的表現仍然非常強勁，我們在發行的債券中理所當然地贏得了大批回頭客。

We've also helped our loan originator partners to build significant franchise value themselves. As we provide them with capital, help them secure favourable warehouse financing, collaborate with them on credit decisions and work together with them on strategic initiatives. Ellington Financial benefits, not only from high quality loan flow, but in many cases from our pro rata share of both of their profits as well as the increase in the value of their platforms.

我們也幫助我們的貸款發起合作夥伴自己建立了顯著的特許經營價值。當我們為他們提供資金時，幫助他們獲得有利的倉庫融資，與他們合作進行信貸決策，並與他們合作制定策略計畫。Ellington Financial 的受益不僅來自高品質的貸款流，而且在許多情況下來自我們按比例分享他們的利潤以及他們平台價值的增加。

Ellington Financials fourth quarter has started off with a good October. Our credit portfolio grew further during the month in what was a broad based expansion across sectors. It performed well from both the credit performance and total return perspective, and it benefited from yet another strong execution in the non-QM securitization market.

艾靈頓金融公司第四季的十月開局良好。本月我們的信貸投資組合進一步成長，跨產業廣泛擴張。無論從信用表現或總回報來看，它都表現良好，這得益於非QM證券化市場的另一個強勁執行。

Meanwhile, in our Longbridge segment, prop reverse origination volumes, origination margins and loan performance will again, all strong in October, as is our typical practice. Later this month, we will be putting out our estimated October month end book value per share.

同時，在我們的長橋板塊，支柱反向發起量、發起利潤率和貸款表現將在 10 月再次表現強勁，這是我們的典型做法。本月晚些時候，我們將公佈十月末每股帳面價值的估計值。

Finally, I should also Finally, I should also add that we were positioned conservatively going into Election Day from a leverage, liquidity, and interest rate exposure perspective. So the post-election volatility in interest rates has not materially affected us.

最後，我還應該補充一點，從槓桿、流動性和利率風險的角度來看，我們在進入選舉日時的定位是保守的。因此，選舉後的利率波動並未對我們產生重大影響。

With that, we'll now open the call up to questions. Operator, please go ahead.

現在，我們將開始提問。接線員，請繼續。

(Operator Instructions) Trevor Cranston, Citizens JMP.

（操作員說明）Trevor Cranston，Citizens JMP。

There's obviously been some significant moves in interest rates and agency spreads in particular so far in the fourth quarter. Can you guys maybe just give us an update on kind of how you're thinking about relative value between agencies and credit opportunities as things stand today?

利率和機構利差顯然發生了一些重大變化，特別是第四季迄今。你們能否向我們介紹一下目前情況下你們如何看待機構和信貸機會之間的相對價值？

Sure. Hey, Trevor, it's Mark. Yes, you had pretty aggressive spread widening sort of middle October towards the end of the month. And in the last four or five days, you've had pretty aggressive spread tightening. So the reduction in the size of the agency portfolio and EFC, I don't think you should interpret it as a comment on relative value of agencies versus non agencies.

當然。嘿，特雷弗，我是馬克。是的，在 10 月中旬到月底的時候，利差已經相當大地擴大了。在過去的四、五天裡，利差收緊得相當積極。因此，機構投資組合和 EFC 規模的縮小，我認為您不應該將其解釋為對機構與非機構相對價值的評論。

It's more a process we started a while ago where we want to devote most of the capital to non-agency origination securitization businesses, RTL, our commercial bridge. And so that's been behind the capital rotation.

這更像是我們不久前開始的過程，我們希望將大部分資金投入非機構發起的證券化業務、RTL、我們的商業橋樑。這就是資本輪替的背後原因。

There are certainly times when you get this, out to spread widening in the agency market that it offers compelling relative value. But for EFC, I think what you should expect is a continued decline in the amount of capital allocated to the agency portfolio. It's already very small.

當然，有時你會發現，代理市場的價差不斷擴大，它提供了令人信服的相對價值。但對於 EFC 來說，我認為您應該預期的是分配給機構投資組合的資本金額持續下降。已經很小了。

And the pace of that decline, I don't think is going to be too impacted by sort of relative value. And that portfolio is small right now and we see growing capital needs in some of our loan businesses where we think we can create sort of better longer term franchise value.

我認為這種下降的速度不會受到相對價值的太大影響。目前該投資組合規模很小，我們看到一些貸款業務的資本需求不斷增長，我們認為我們可以在這些業務中創造更好的長期特許經營價值。

And if I could just add one more thing. One thing on the mortgage basis that you don't really see, but it goes on behind the scenes, is that we can be opportunistic and we can vary the extent to which we hedge our non-QM portfolio as we're accumulating non-QM loans for securitization, for example or just to hold them.

如果我能再補充一件事就好了。在抵押貸款基礎上，你沒有真正看到但它在幕後發生的一件事是，我們可以投機取巧，我們可以改變對沖非 QM 投資組合的程度，因為我們正在積累非 QM 投資組合。證券化的QM 貸款或僅用於持有它們。

We often, but not always, hedge them with TBA mortgages because they have a lot of the same convexity characteristics in terms of the prepay faster when rates go down, they prepay slower when rates go up, right. So it's and that's something that depending upon our view on the mortgage baseness, we can dial up the extent to which we're hedging our non-QMs with TBAs versus more vanilla instruments like the straight swaps.

我們經常（但並非總是）用 TBA 抵押貸款對沖它們，因為它們具有許多相同的凸性特徵，即利率下降時預付款更快，利率上升時預付款更慢，對吧。因此，根據我們對抵押貸款基礎的看法，我們可以加大用 TBA 與直接掉期等更普通工具對沖非 QM 的程度。

Yes. It's a great point. We actually did when we saw that big spread widening, third week of October, we did reduce the TBA hedge on the non-QM and moved it more into swaps. Look, you're at a point in the agency market that if rates stay where they are, origination volumes are going to be pretty low and you're going to have a very large treasury calendar. So it's things that are, there's reasons to be constructive on the mortgage basis here, for sure.

是的。這是一個很好的觀點。事實上，當我們看到利差擴大時，10 月的第三週，我們確實減少了非 QM 的 TBA 對沖，並將其更多地轉移到掉期中。看，在代理市場上，如果利率保持不變，發起量將會相當低，而且您將擁有一個非常大的財務日曆。所以，事情就是這樣，當然有理由在抵押貸款基礎上保持建設性。

Okay. Makes sense. And then, on Longbridge, you guys highlighted in the prepared comments, the improvement in earnings there which have been a nice tailwind. And Larry you kind of mentioned the $0.09 number is a level that could give you decent dividend coverage.

好的。有道理。然後，在長橋，你們在準備好的評論中強調了那裡盈利的改善，這是一個很好的推動力。拉里（Larry）您提到 0.09 美元的數字可以為您提供可觀的股息覆蓋率。

Is that kind of the level that's a good baseline to think about if we see more stability and rates and spreads from here? Or any sort of color you can give around kind of what you think about as a baseline contribution from them would be helpful?

如果我們從這裡看到更多的穩定性、利率和利差，那麼這個水準是一個很好的基準嗎？或者你可以圍繞你認為作為他們的基線貢獻的任何類型的顏色會有所幫助？

Yes, sure. I have mentioned before that Longbridge’s business being in the reverse mortgage business, it's definitely rates sensitive. So as rates go up, borrowers can just because of the way the math works, borrowers can borrow less against their houses and vice-versa as rates go down, they can borrow more.

是的，當然。我之前提到過，長橋的業務是反向抵押貸款業務，它肯定對利率敏感。因此，隨著利率上升，借款人可以根據數學原理，減少以房屋為抵押的借款，反之亦然，隨著利率下降，他們可以藉更多的錢。

So just big picture, they tend to see, I mean, there's seasonal factors, other factors too, but they do, there's market share obviously is going to factor into it, but they tend to see more origination volume when rates are lower.

因此，從大局來看，他們傾向於看到，我的意思是，有季節性因素，也有其他因素，但他們確實如此，市場份額顯然會考慮在內，但當利率較低時，他們往往會看到更多的起源量。

So we actually have a hedge at Longbridge which makes us money when rates go up to sort of buffer against the fact that we expect to see lower volumes and therefore lower profits as rates go up. So you will see volatility there from an ADE perspective because that hedge is it's an interest rate hedge, so it doesn't, it's not, doesn't contribute to ADE, if it's profitable, it's more of a gain or loss, like a capital gain or loss.

因此，我們實際上在長橋有一個對沖，當利率上升時，我們可以賺錢，以緩衝我們預計隨著利率上升，交易量減少，因此利潤下降的事實。所以你會從ADE 的角度看到波動性，因為對沖是利率對沖，所以它不會、不會、不會對ADE 做出貢獻，如果它是有利可圖的，它更多的是收益或損失，就像資本收益或損失。

So, yes, so I think the $0.09 number is something that was just, we obviously beat it by $0.03 or not obviously, but that's what we reported that segment beat it by $0.03 this quarter. So we're just, I'm really just trying to make the point that A, it's achievable and B, that's kind of a number where we think we'll be ADE will cover dividend.

所以，是的，所以我認為 0.09 美元的數字只是，我們顯然比它多了 0.03 美元，或者不明顯，但這就是我們報告的該細分市場本季度比它多了 0.03 美元。所以我們只是，我真的只是想說明一點，A，它是可以實現的，B，這是一個我們認為 ADE 將覆蓋股息的數字。

In terms of a target it's not an unreasonable target, but we will see volatility with rates and we did beat it in this quarter and I think the other thing that I mentioned was that our ability to do securitizations, we've done two so far, that's going to really help that number two, that was a nice boost.

就目標而言，這不是一個不合理的目標，但我們會看到利率波動，我們確實在本季度擊敗了它，我認為我提到的另一件事是我們進行證券化的能力，到目前為止我們已經做了兩次，這將真正幫助第二名，這是一個很好的推動。

I can't quantify it, but that was a nice boost as well, you know, to the ADE, right? Because it sort of improves the, it's technically not a sale for accounting purposes, but you can sort of think of it as improves your gain on sale margins in that business.

我無法量化它，但這對 ADE 來說也是一個很好的推動，對嗎？因為它在某種程度上提高了，從技術上講，它不是出於會計目的的銷售，但您可以將其視為提高了該業務的銷售利潤率。

So yes, so I think from a modelling perspective I'm not uncomfortable with that as a long-term sort of stabilized value. And of course, over time, Longbridge getting into other businesses, reverse was not a big business for it, call it a year ago or 18 months ago. So, there's lots of ways that Longbridge can add ADE in the future, even away from its existing business lines.

所以是的，所以我認為從建模的角度來看，我對這種長期穩定的價值並不感到不舒服。當然，隨著時間的推移，長橋進入了其他業務，反向對它來說並不是一項大業務，稱之為一年前或 18 個月前。因此，Longbridge 未來可以透過多種方式添加 ADE，甚至可以脫離其現有業務線。

Bose George, KBW.

博斯·喬治，KBW。

This is Frankie Labetti on for Bose. I just want to start, can you discuss the competition you were seeing within the non-QM market and also how has the more active participation from insurance companies impacted that market?.

我是 Bose 的 Frankie Labetti。我只想開始，您能否討論一下您在非品質管理市場中看到的競爭以及保險公司更積極的參與對該市場有何影響？

Sure. This is Mark. Those are great questions. So, Ellington, like most people in the non-QM space has seen aggressive consistent buying of non-QM loans from a lot of insurance companies, a lot of them that are fixed annuity sellers, really, I'd say for the last 2.25, 2.5 years.

當然。這是馬克。這些都是很好的問題。因此，艾靈頓，就像非 QM 領域的大多數人一樣，看到許多保險公司持續積極購買非 QM 貸款，其中很多都是固定年金賣家，真的，我想說在過去的 2.25 年裡， 2.5年。

So that has been a fixture of the market for a while. I think it's done a couple things. One is it has stabilized loan prices. So you used to see a lot of volatility in non-QM loan prices. I really think about early in the selloff in 2022, it was a market that had a lot more price volatility than the agency market. And I think the presence of consistent buying from insurance companies has taken out some of that volatility.

因此，這已經成為市場的固定因素一段時間了。我認為它做了幾件事。一是穩定了貸款價。因此，您過去常常看到非 QM 貸款價格波動很大。我確實想到了 2022 年拋售初期，這個市場的價格波動性比代理商市場大得多。我認為保險公司持續購買的存在已經消除了一些波動性。

So for our originators, I think it's been welcome, because they sell to Ellington, but they sell to other buyers as well. It creates competition, right, the insurance companies have different yield bogies, a different liability structure than an Ellington Financial or an annually that is really funding on repo and then doing securitization.

因此，對於我們的創辦人來說，我認為這是受歡迎的，因為他們賣給艾靈頓，但他們也賣給其他買家。它創造了競爭，對吧，保險公司有不同的收益率轉向架，與艾靈頓金融公司或每年為回購提供資金然後進行證券化的公司不同的責任結構。

So there can be times where the competition from insurance companies can be serious and it really can push levels around to level to places where, it doesn't look as attractive as it does at other times. But I'd say for now it's been sort of a consistent presence that has stabilized the market. It's been a welcome diversifier for our originators.

因此，有時來自保險公司的競爭可能會很嚴重，它確實可以將水平推高到看起來不像其他時候那麼有吸引力的水平。但我想說，就目前而言，這是穩定市場的一種持續存在。對於我們的創辦人來說，這是一個受歡迎的多元化工具。

And you also see insurance companies buying the securitization. So I feel like in some ways they're competitors. In some ways they're also clients. There's been enough volume to go around but it's definitely created a different dynamic than what we had, I'd say, pre-COVID when it was not a market where you saw a lot of active insurance company participation.

你也看到保險公司購買證券化產品。所以我覺得在某些方面他們是競爭對手。在某些方面，他們也是客戶。雖然有足夠的交易量，但它肯定創造了一種與我們在新冠疫情之前不同的動態，當時市場上沒有看到許多保險公司的積極參與。

And then just to move to operating expenses, they're roughly up 18% over the quarter. Can you just discuss what drove that increase and can we expect to see higher OpEx going forward?

然後就營運費用而言，本季大約成長了 18%。您能否討論一下推動這一成長的因素以及我們是否可以期待未來看到更高的營運支出？

Sure. So part of that is we converted, we redeemed, I guess you could say options at the Longbridge level. So that's one of the largest drivers of the, which is a one-time thing, employee held options. So that's a non-recurring that we would not see next quarter in Q4. That's probably the biggest driver.

當然。所以其中一部分是我們轉換、我們贖回，我想你可以說是長橋等級的選項。因此，這是員工持有選擇權的最大驅動因素之一，這是一次性的事情。因此，這是一個非經常性的問題，我們不會在下個季度的第四季看到這種情況。這可能是最大的驅動力。

Matthew Erdner, Jones Trading.

馬修‧艾德納，瓊斯貿易公司。

Could you talk about your expectation for pace of securitizations? And then, could you speak a little to the execution and how that's been on the reverse deals?

您能談談您對證券化進程的預期嗎？然後，您能談談執行情況以及反向交易的情況嗎？

On the reverse deals, I mean, when you say how it's been, I mean we're happy with the executions. I don't want to -- I'm not sure exactly how you'd like me to elaborate further on that. We've got it's not as uniform in that space in terms of the structures that people use in the reverse mortgage space are different and that there's not a lot of issuance there and different issuers use slightly different structures in terms of the how the debt is structured.

在反向交易中，我的意思是，當你說情況如何時，我的意思是我們對執行感到滿意。我不想——我不確定你到底希望我如何進一步闡述這一點。我們發現，在該領域並不統一，因為人們在反向抵押貸款領域使用的結構不同，而且那裡的發行量並不大，而且不同的發行人在債務方式方面使用的結構略有不同結構化。

But we've been very pleased. We've got repeat buyers, and we are accumulating for another deal. And we think that that really helps us having that securitization outlet, right, and that long-term locked in financing on a what's a very long-term product, obviously, is something that gives us a lot of confidence to continue to ramp up that origination at Longbridge. Mark, do you want to speak?

但我們已經非常高興了。我們有回頭客，我們正在為另一筆交易累積資金。我們認為，這確實有助於我們擁有證券化管道，對吧，並且長期鎖定非常長期產品的融資，顯然，這給了我們很大的信心，可以繼續加大力度起源於長橋。馬克，你想說話嗎？

Yes. Pace of non-QM securitizations next year, I think four to six deals is sort of a cadence I would expect us to do. It was going to depend on origination volumes and deal structures and there were times where we perceive repo financing is a better way to go. But if the market kind of looks broadly similar to how it is now, I think four to six is where we should be.

是的。明年非 QM 證券化的步伐，我認為四到六筆交易是我希望我們做的節奏。這將取決於發行量和交易結構，有時我們認為回購融資是更好的選擇。但如果市場看起來與現在大致相似，我認為我們應該處於四到六的位置。

One thing that we've really tried to build here and have succeeded now is we not only have a diversified portfolio, but we have a really diversified and robust sourcing of all these different loan products, whether it's non-QM, RTL, we have many sellers. We're buying a lot of loans each month. And we can dial up or down, small balance commercial bridge lending, we're seeing also now increased volume there.

我們真正嘗試在這裡建立並現在取得成功的一件事是，我們不僅擁有多元化的投資組合，而且我們擁有所有這些不同貸款產品的真正多元化和穩健的採購，無論是非QM、RTL，我們都有很多賣家。我們每個月都會購買大量貸款。我們可以向上或向下調整小額商業過橋貸款，我們現在也看到那裡的交易量增加。

So we can dial up and down, where we don't it's like a faucet, right? And you're you turn the faucet a little higher and you get a little more flow, but then you can turn one faucet down and you could turn the other faucet up and the different products that we buy.

所以我們可以向上和向下撥號，而我們不可以像水龍頭一樣，對吧？你把水龍頭調高一點，水流就會多一點，但是你可以把一個水龍頭調低，你可以把另一個水龍頭調高，然後我們購買不同的產品。

So I think we're in a great place to take advantage of where we see opportunities. We mentioned before that if at some point the insurance bid in a particular month, let's just say, is so strong that we'd rather take our turn the faucet down in our non-QM buying, well, we can pick it up RTL or small balance commercial bridge or just CUSIPs, right? So I really feel good about the diversity of our sources of growing the portfolio.

所以我認為我們處於一個很好的位置，可以利用我們看到的機會。我們之前提到過，如果在某個特定月份的保險出價非常強勁，以至於我們寧願在非 QM 購買中關閉水龍頭，那麼我們可以選擇 RTL 或小餘額商業橋或只是 CUSIP，對嗎？因此，我對我們投資組合成長來源的多樣性感到非常滿意。

And that kind of led into my second question about where are you guys seeing opportunities right now? I know in the past you've talked about commercial. You just touched on the bridge lending there. But is it just kind of factor of what the market's throwing at you? And then, could you expand a little more on what you guys are seeing and plan on doing in the HELOC and second lien space?

這就引出了我的第二個問題：你們現在在哪裡看到機會？我知道你過去談論過商業。你剛剛談到了那裡的過橋貸款。但這只是市場向你拋出的因素嗎？然後，您能否詳細介紹一下您在 HELOC 和第二留置權領域所看到的情況和計劃要做的事情？

Yes, I would say in terms of opportunity, buying the loans we like, getting to critical mass for securitization, executing the deals and keeping retained tranches that we expect you're going to have very high yield and the ability via call options to get loans back in the future. That's a good opportunity for us right now and we're pursuing that. And it's been that way last six months for sure. And I expect that to be the case.

是的，我想說的是，就機會而言，購買我們喜歡的貸款，達到證券化的臨界規模，執行交易並保留保留部分，我們希望您將獲得非常高的收益率，並且能夠通過看漲期權獲得未來還貸。現在這對我們來說是一個很好的機會，我們正在追求這個機會。過去六個月肯定是這樣。我希望情況確實如此。

We've also seen very good opportunity in CUSIPs and I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we had great contributions in some of our non-agency stuff, CRT, we've done well in CMBS. CLO we mentioned that we shrunk it a little bit because we took gains.

我們也在 CUSIP 中看到了非常好的機會，我在準備好的發言中提到，我們在一些非機構方面做出了巨大貢獻，CRT，我們在 CMBS 方面做得很好。CLO我們提到我們縮小了一點，因為我們獲得了收益。

So we have a broad platform at Ellington and really, I mean, I think a phenomenal suite of PMs and so we have a lot of different sort of arrows in the quiver. So, and I like, I like having some CUSIPs as well as some loans. It's sort of a different return stream and it's nice to sort of get the alpha that you can get from CUSIPs.

因此，我們在艾靈頓有一個廣闊的平台，實際上，我的意思是，我認為有一群出色的產品經理，所以我們的箭袋裡有很多不同類型的箭頭。因此，我喜歡擁有一些 CUSIP 以及一些貸款。這是一種不同的返回流，很高興能從 CUSIP 中獲得阿爾法。

And then the second part of your question, second liens and HELOCs, again, the prepared remarks to us, we think we engage with that product the same way we do with non-QM. Its high yielding asset, it has a big spread versus our financing.

然後是你問題的第二部分，第二留置權和 HELOC，再次是我們準備好的評論，我們認為我們與該產品的互動方式與與非 QM 的互動方式相同。它的高收益資產，與我們的融資相比有很大的利差。

So just having it on portfolio on a levered basis, with an interest rate hedge on the close end seconds, you don't need one on the HELOC because they're floating off a prime, prime's kind of been locked to SOFR so with an appropriate interest rate hedge, from time to time a credit hedge that gives a nice levered return. But there's also securitization opportunities there.

因此，只需將其放在槓桿基礎上的投資組合中，並在收盤時進行利率對沖，您就不需要HELOC 上的投資組合，因為它們是從Prime 中浮動的，Prime 有點被鎖定在SOFR 上，所以用適當的利率對沖，不時進行信用對沖，可以帶來不錯的槓桿回報。但那裡也存在證券化機會。

So I would expect us to do a securitization relatively soon on, one or both of those products and follow the same playbook we have for non-QM, retaining some high yielding assets, keeping our call rights in place and replacing repo financing with selling investment grade bonds that we think have a lower yield than the yield on the repo.

因此，我希望我們能夠相對較快地對其中一種或兩種產品進行證券化，並遵循我們針對非QM 的相同策略，保留一些高收益資產，保留我們的認購權，並用出售投資取代回購融資我們認為此類債券的收益率低於回購收益率。

And we talked about in the prepared remarks, you know, it's match funding, you reduce margin calls. So that's our plan for that product. And it can be anything we can do in non-QM, we can do that in the HELOCs and then the closed end seconds. So all that sort of, that whole skillset we have and the whole playbook there, it's really transferable.

我們在準備好的演講中談到，你知道，這是匹配資金，你可以減少追加保證金。這就是我們對該產品的計劃。它可以是我們在非 QM 中可以做的任何事情，我們可以在 HELOC 中做到這一點，然後在封閉的結束秒中做到這一點。因此，我們擁有的所有技能和整個劇本都是可以轉移的。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

艾瑞克‧哈根，BTIG。

As you retire the preferred and make a move toward more unsecured, is that going to change the optics of your leverage? And is there may be like a change in philosophy around how you manage with the secured leverage and the repo and where that leverage gets applied to certain assets as you retire the pref?

當您退休優先股並轉向更無擔保的股票時，這會改變您的槓桿效應嗎？關於如何使用擔保槓桿和回購進行管理以及當您退休時將槓桿應用於某些資產的理念是否可能會發生變化？

Okay, I'll start out, Eric. So I guess first off retiring that preferred which is now that it's floating is well over 10% cost of funds, like that seems like a no-brainer to us. And it's small, it's 24 million, 25 million. We have a few different channels to add financing to the balance sheet. Secured and unsecured. I mean, on the unsecured side, Larry mentioned that we have, I would say an appetite to do more.

好的，我要開始了，艾瑞克。所以我想首先要退休的是現在它的浮動資金成本遠遠超過 10%，這對我們來說似乎是理所當然的。而且規模很小，有2400萬、2500萬。我們有幾種不同的管道來為資產負債表增加融資。有擔保和無擔保。我的意思是，在無保障方面，拉里提到我們有，我想說的是，我們有做更多事情的興趣。

Of course we need to balance what the pricing is going to look like relative to secured financing other options. I mean, when we did our current $210 million deal a couple years ago, it was at a spread of 3.22. And now, recent deals in the mortgage sector have been much wider spreads. Perhaps they're coming in, but that the cost of financing on the unsecured is an important consideration. But big picture we want to do more.

當然，我們需要平衡相對於其他擔保融資選項的定價。我的意思是，幾年前我們進行目前 2.1 億美元的交易時，價差為 3.22。而現在，抵押貸款領域最近的交易利差要大得多。也許他們會加入，但無擔保的融資成本是一個重要的考慮因素。但從長遠來看，我們想做更多。

In terms of secured financing. So I mentioned in my prepared remarks that since June we've added three new facilities and secured facilities for loans that's added 550 million of capacity. We've utilized some, but not all of that, but so we have more to draw on new lines.

在擔保融資方面。所以我在準備好的發言中提到，自6月份以來，我們增加了三項新的貸款安排，並獲得了新增5.5億產能的貸款安排。我們已經利用了一些，但不是全部，所以我們有更多的東西可以繪製新的路線。

We're expecting to add a new line for the MSRs that we got from Arlington. I think Larry mentioned that as well. Those -- the spreads on those are attractive. And between those two sources, we're talking about a few hundred million of additional financing compared to where we were at September 30.

我們希望為從阿靈頓獲得的 MSR 添加一條新生產線。我想拉里也提到過這一點。這些——這些的利差很有吸引力。與 9 月 30 日相比，這兩個來源之間的融資額增加了數億美元。

A few other things to think about, we have unencumbered assets on balance sheet of 550 at quarter ends. The bulk of that are agency and resi loans and if you do two to one leverage on that, you're talking about another couple hundred million of secured financing available on existing lines.

還有一些需要考慮的事情，季末我們的資產負債表上有 550 項未支配資產。其中大部分是代理貸款和儲蓄貸款，如果你對此進行二比一的槓桿，那麼你正在談論現有額度上的另外幾億美元的擔保融資。

And then we have cash. So we had [220] of cash at quarter ends and at least some of that I would consider to be surplus that we working on deploying in October, and Larry mentioned that the portfolio, the credit portfolio is bigger in October. So anyway, that was a lot of different pieces, but hopefully that, it gets your question.

然後我們就有現金了。因此，我們在季度末擁有 [220] 現金，其中至少有一些我認為是我們在 10 月份部署的盈餘，拉里提到投資組合、信貸投資組合在 10 月份更大。不管怎樣，這是很多不同的部分，但希望它能解答你的問題。

And then I just to add that from a leverage perspective, with unsecured financing, we're more comfortable increasing the leverage. So I do think that if we can do one or more unsecured deals, then you'll see our leverage tick up. And then we'd love to love to replace just over time. Now, this is really more of a longer term goal, but if we can replace a lot of our short-term repo financing with longer term financing, that obviously just a more just a better company, frankly.

然後我想補充一點，從槓桿的角度來看，透過無擔保融資，我們更願意增加槓桿。因此，我確實認為，如果我們能夠進行一項或多項無擔保交易，那麼您會看到我們的槓桿率上升。然後我們很樂意隨著時間的推移進行更換。現在，這實際上是一個更長期的目標，但坦白說，如果我們能夠用長期融資取代大量短期回購融資，那顯然只是一家更好的公司。

So that's something that's a longer term aspirational goal. If you look at the mortgage REITs, there's and on the residential mortgage REITs, they don't really haven't been able to pull that off as well, frankly. But that's something that we definitely would have an eye towards long-term. But short-term, we're just looking at as JR said, some of the like the floating rate preferred that now we can replace.

所以這是一個長期的願望目標。如果你看看抵押貸款房地產投資信託基金，你會發現住宅抵押貸款房地產投資信託基金，坦白說，他們並不是真的無法實現這一目標。但這是我們肯定會著眼於長期的事情。但短期來看，我們只是專注於 JR 所說的，一些像浮動利率之類的首選，現在我們可以替換。

And yes, that decreases our equity and increases our debt. So that's going to definitely at least show up as an increase in leverage. So we have to -- try to manage portfolio very conservatively from a liquidity management perspective.

是的，這會減少我們的資產並增加我們的債務。因此，這肯定至少會表現為槓桿率的增加。因此，我們必須嘗試從流動性管理的角度非常保守地管理投資組合。

So we'll keep a close eye on that and there's very steps and we are 18 times, that's equity at September 30. All those different pieces maybe get us into the low 2s, here in the next quarter or two. And that's probably recourse.

所以我們會密切關注這一點，並且有很多步驟，我們是 18 倍，這是 9 月 30 日的股本。所有這些不同的部分可能會讓我們在接下來的一兩個季度進入低 2 分。這可能就是追索權。

Matthew Howlett, B. Riley.

馬修·豪利特，B.萊利。

Just to follow up on the preferred, I mean, you could replace that preferred with some of your other shares, the ATMs and if you wanted to at lower costs or is there a ratio you want to take down?

只是為了跟進優先股，我的意思是，你可以用你的其他一些股票、自動櫃員機來取代優先股，如果你想以更低的成本這樣做，或者你想降低一個比率嗎？

Sorry, which ATMs?

抱歉，哪些 ATM 機？

Preferred ATM.

首選 ATM。

Yes, I mean look, I think the preferred, the new issuance on preferred has been pretty low in our sector in the past couple years. So we do have ATM facilities on different common and preferred as you point out. I mean, volumes have been pretty low on preferred.

是的，我的意思是，我認為過去幾年我們行業中優先股的新發行量相當低。因此，正如您所指出的，我們確實在不同的常見和首選方面設有 ATM 設施。我的意思是，首選的銷量非常低。

So it doesn't seem like there's a huge, at least new, it's not exactly what you asked but a new issue preferred doesn't seem to be there as much as the baby bonds and other types of unsecured. So look, I think that we try to be opportunistic on the capital structure and that's another potential tool but the volumes in preferred are pretty low and it seems like investor appetite for unsecured is a lot greater than for new issue preferred.

因此，似乎沒有一個巨大的，至少是新的，這不完全是你所要求的，但新發行的首選債券似乎不像嬰兒債券和其他類型的無擔保債券那麼多。因此，我認為我們試圖在資本結構上投機取巧，這是另一個潛在的工具，但優先股的數量相當低，而且投資者對無擔保債券的興趣似乎比新發行的優先股要大得多。

And if you look at where those are trading, it would still be expensive, right? So these -- the lower the one that hasn't the one that's still fixed, yes, right, is trading at a pretty big discount. So I'm not sure if you true. That's not we can't replace that coupon at bar.

如果你看看這些交易的地點，你會發現它仍然很昂貴，對吧？因此，這些 - 尚未修復的價格較低的價格，是的，正確的，正在以相當大的折扣進行交易。所以我不確定你說的是不是真的。這並不是說我們不能在酒吧更換優惠券。

So, yes, so I think debt is a better just if we really which we don't want to do, if we really want to reduce our -- I call it cost of funds, not technically debt, right? But from the common's perspective, it is. So if we really want to reduce the load the cost of funds on the common, I think we're going to have to look to replace preferred with some form of debt, whether it's secured or unsecured.

所以，是的，所以我認為債務是更好的，如果我們真的不想做，如果我們真的想減少我們的——我稱之為資金成本，而不是技術上的債務，對嗎？但從一般人的角度來看，確實如此。因此，如果我們真的想減少普通股的資金成本負擔，我認為我們將不得不尋求以某種形式的債務取代優先股，無論是有擔保的還是無擔保的。

You're always the market leader on low cost preferred. That's why I asked the question. But if it does open up, I'm sure you'll be back involved. Second question, on the duration of the credit report book, you guys have always been sort of short duration, high yields, short duration.

您始終是低成本首選的市場領導者。這就是我問這個問題的原因。但如果它真的開放，我相信你會重新參與其中。第二個問題，關於信用報告書的期限，你們一直是短期限、高收益、短期限。

You've always pulled this off time and time again. As you start to invest more in retained tranches, non-QM, I mean, do you want to take a little more duration on the credit book given where we are on the rate cycle? Or do you foresee still being in that short and intermediate term?

你總是一次又一次地成功。當你開始更多地投資於保留部分（非 QM）時，我的意思是，考慮到我們在利率週期中的位置，你是否想在信貸帳簿上多花一點時間？或者您預計短期和中期仍會如此？

Yes. I think, non-QM retained tranches, there are BP subordinated tranches that we retain that are long, but there's also excess it that's quite short in duration. So I think and then as you mentioned, the other products are shorter duration products, which turnover fast, a lot of principal repayments, whether it's RTL, bridge loans, et cetera.

是的。我認為，對於非 QM 保留的部分，我們保留了長期的 BP 附屬部分，但也有一些期限相當短的多餘部分。所以我想，正如你所提到的，其他產品都是期限較短的產品，週轉快，本金償還量大，無論是RTL、過橋貸款等等。

So I think all of the things being equal, I think we like to stay shorter in duration. But we're not afraid like look at the reverse mortgage space that's really long duration. So when we are retained tranches there. So I think it depends, yes.

因此，我認為在所有條件相同的情況下，我們希望保持較短的持續時間。但我們不害怕看看期限很長的反向抵押貸款空間。所以當我們被保留在那裡的時候。所以我認為這取決於情況，是的。

I mean, you're picking up great yields. Can you quantify what could be -- what you could call securitization wise next year? I mean, how much was the stuff issued? And I'm assuming if 2002, 2003, all the stuff issued back then could be called if rates move lower going forward?

我的意思是，你正在獲得巨大的利益。您能否量化明年可能出現的情況—您可以稱之為「明智的證券化」？我的意思是，這些東西發行了多少？我假設如果 2002 年、2003 年利率下降，那麼當時發行的東西都可以贖回？

Yes. I don't have that at my fingertips, sorry. But you're right, there's going to be some deals that are going to pass the lock up period at some point and I don't have that.

是的。我手邊沒有這個，抱歉。但你是對的，有些交易會在某個時候超過鎖定期，但我沒有。

Yes. And when we put out our Q early next week, it will have more information about the existing deals and we can -- you can put the pieces together versus with what's outstanding and then what you can see from Bloomberg in terms of coupons on the remaining tranches. But yes, we I can point you to that.

是的。當我們下周初發布Q 時，它將提供有關現有交易的更多信息，我們可以- 您可以將各個部分放在一起，與未完成的交易進行比較，然後您可以從彭博社看到剩餘交易的優惠券部分。但是，是的，我們可以向您指出這一點。

Yes, Matt, it's Mark. I would just say, Matt, it's an interesting point. You did see [Verus] call a few deals a couple of weeks ago. So basically on the 9QM side, the rules are you can call it the earlier of three years or when the amount of loans in the deal by current face are less than 30% of the -- at deal closing.

是的，馬特，是馬克。我只想說，馬特，這是一個有趣的觀點。幾週前你確實看到 [Verus] 宣布了幾筆交易。所以基本上在 9QM 方面，規則是你可以稱之為三年中較早的一個，或者當交易中的貸款金額按當前面值低於交易結束時的 30% 時。

So I think given the prepayment environment we've been in so far, what's going to come sooner is the three year date. So anything '22 and when we get to 2025, it's going to be anything '22 and earlier, you'll have the right to call them and you definitely some of that activity.

因此，我認為考慮到我們迄今為止所處的預付款環境，三年期將會更快到來。因此，任何 22 世紀的事情，當我們到 2025 年時，都將是 22 世紀或更早的事情，你將有權打電話給他們，你肯定會參與其中的一些活動。

Some of those deals obviously had very low coupons on them.

其中一些交易的優惠券顯然非常低。

Yes. We have deals out there where the senior bond had a coupon below 1%.

是的。我們有一些交易，優先債券的票面利率低於 1%。

We're not calling those.

我們不會稱呼這些。

That stuff's going to be out there, right?

那東西會出現在那裡，對嗎？

Well just again, they're going to be some deals out there that got done with pretty high note rates that are going to get in the call window soon.

好吧，再說一遍，他們將有一些以相當高的票據利率完成的交易，這些交易很快就會進入呼叫窗口。

It's upside, it's clearly you have the option of doing it, so if spreads remain tight, I'm assuming you'll look at a lot of these deals.

這是有利的，很明顯你可以選擇這樣做，所以如果利差保持緊張，我假設你會考慮很多這樣的交易。

Yes. I mean, to be fair and when we do a deal, we know about the call and depending on what the note rate is and what the forward curve is, we may ascribe some value to it. We discount that value at a really high discount rate. But so, we take it into account. It's not like a 100% found money, but we've called a bunch of deals in the past and when we have it, it's been certainly a profitable event.

是的。我的意思是，公平地說，當我們進行交易時，我們知道看漲期權，並且根據票據利率和遠期曲線，我們可能會為其賦予一些價值。我們以非常高的折扣率對該價值進行折扣。但因此，我們考慮到了這一點。這並不像 100% 找到錢一樣，但我們過去已經進行過很多交易，當我們獲得這些交易時，這肯定是一個有利可圖的事件。

Well, I look forward to that and we'll look forward to the queue. Last question is I've covered Ellington for a long, long time and the company, as it evolves, it's growing. These originators, these stakes and originators are all growing, and of course you have Longbridge.

好吧，我很期待，我們也會期待排隊。最後一個問題是，我已經報道艾靈頓很久了，隨著公司的發展，它正在成長。這些發起人，這些賭注和發起人都在成長，當然還有長橋。

Just to clarify, Longbridge is not that's just, it's consolidated on the balance sheet. There's no mark to market fair value on Longbridge versus [Ameri shore] and the others.

需要澄清的是，長橋不僅僅是這樣，它併入了資產負債表。長橋與 [Ameri shore] 和其他船隻相比，沒有以市場公允價值計價。

Yes, we have -- we mark-to-market there that the assets that are consolidated on a balance sheet, so we fair value those loans. Like we fair value everything else, but yes, that's right. There's no equity value from the originator explicitly on the balance sheet.

是的，我們對資產負債表上合併的資產進行了以市價計價，因此我們對這些貸款進行公允價值評估。就像我們公平地評價其他一切一樣，但是，是的，這是對的。資產負債表上沒有明確顯示發起人的股權價值。

So my question for as shareholders in the book, I know you update the 1,366 book, but I mean, when you start to think about the potential value of something like Longbridge or even your other originators, and you look at where these other originated Rocket, Penny, Cokebra, they're trading way above reported book. And as these businesses grow, I'm assuming they're going to continue to grow here.

所以我作為書中股東的問題，我知道你更新了1,366 本書，但我的意思是，當你開始思考像Longbridge 甚至你的其他創始人這樣的東西的潛在價值時，你看看這些其他起源於Rocket 的地方、Penny、Cokebra，他們的交易量遠高於報告的書本。隨著這些企業的發展，我假設他們將在這裡繼續發展。

I mean, what can you tell investors to EFC is sort of a 1,366, we're different than the books we've given you in over the last decade because we have embedded value in these stakes that might be worth a lot more in a public or private valuation setting. I just would love to hear your comments on how investors should look at something like Longbridge.

我的意思是，你能告訴投資者 EFC 的訊息是 1,366，我們與過去十年我們給你的書不同，因為我們在這些股份中嵌入了價值，這些股份在未來幾年可能價值更高。公共或私人估值設定。我只是很想聽聽您對投資者應如何看待長橋這樣的公司的評論。

Right. Well, I think, look, we, I think if you look just even recently, right? Like I mentioned earlier that Longbridge had negative ADE in the first quarter of this year, right? So I don't want, I think we need to put up some stability there. And like I said before, there's great signs that that's where -- if we're not there yet, we're heading there soon.

正確的。好吧，我想，看，我們，我想如果你最近才看，對吧？就像我之前提到的，長橋今年第一季的 ADE 為負，對嗎？所以我不想，我認為我們需要在那裡建立一些穩定。正如我之前所說，有很多跡象表明，即使我們還沒有到達那裡，我們很快就會到達那裡。

So but you're absolutely right that it would be great. And I think once we can achieve that stability where you can say, okay, there's a -- and this is really, frankly, more your expertise than ours and more your job than ours, but you would say, okay, so there's a chunk of this company that should be trading in a multiple of earnings, not a percentage of book value, right? I mean, that's really, I think what you're getting at.

所以，你說得對，那就太好了。我認為一旦我們能夠實現這種穩定性，你就可以說，好吧，坦率地說，你的專業知識比我們更多，你的工作比我們更多，但你會說，好吧，所以有一大塊這家公司的交易價格應該是本益比的倍數，而不是帳面價值的百分比，對嗎？我的意思是，我認為這確實是你的意思。

And I agree with that a hundred percent. And we said that right now our capital allocation is that earlier our capital allocation mortgage is 12%. But you can, even a high multiple on 12% of the company can have a meaningful impact in your overall, way you trade overall. But look, I think it's for now it's about covering the dividend and our ADE covered the dividend in the third quarter and I think we're, I feel good about it.

我百分百同意這一點。我們說現在我們的資本配置是之前我們的資本配置抵押貸款是12%。但你可以，即使是公司 12% 的高倍數也可以對你的整體交易方式產生有意義的影響。但看，我認為現在是為了支付股息，我們的 ADE 在第三季度支付了股息，我認為我們對此感覺很好。

And I would just, I think underscoring the point, we talked about $0.09 as kind of a stabilized or maybe run rate or target on numbers. That's a lot more than 12% of our dividend. So they're 12% of capital that's 23% of our $0.39 dividend

我想強調這一點，我們將 0.09 美元視為穩定的或可能的運行率或數字目標。這遠遠超過我們股息的 12%。所以它們佔資本的 12%，也就是我們 0.39 美元股息的 23%

I'm assuming all entities you're hiring and all originators are all hiring now, I'm assuming you guys are in growth modes for all these stakes you have.

我假設你們正在招聘的所有實體和所有發起者現在都在招聘，我假設你們擁有的所有這些股份都處於成長模式。

Yes. Everybody's trying to be more efficient. So I don't know that we're necessarily at our originator, whether it's ones that we own stakes in or the ones that we don't or Longbridge obviously, which is part of us. I don't know if you are going to see massive hiring at this point.

是的。每個人都在努力提高效率。所以我不知道我們是否一定是我們的創始人，無論是我們擁有股份的還是我們不擁有股份的，或者顯然是長橋，它是我們的一部分。我不知道此時是否會看到大規模招募。

I think everybody's been able to over the past few years just get a lot more efficient after the rates spiked in 2022. And so I think they've -- I don't think you're necessarily going to see a huge amount of hiring there. But you might see some, especially as product lines increase and things like that.

我認為在 2022 年費率飆升之後，過去幾年每個人都能夠提高效率。所以我認為他們——我認為你不一定會在那裡看到大量的招聘人員。但你可能會看到一些，特別是隨著產品線的增加和類似的事情。

I look forward to continued contribution from Longbridge and the others. Appreciate it.

我期待著 Longbridge 和其他人繼續做出貢獻。欣賞它。

Thank you. That was our final question for today. We thank you for participating in the Ellington Financial third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. You may disconnect your line at this time and have a wonderful day.

謝謝。這是我們今天的最後一個問題。我們感謝您參加 Ellington Financial 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。此時您可以斷開線路並度過美好的一天。