埃尼石油 (E) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Eni's 2026 first-quarter results conference call, hosted by Mr. Francesco Gattei, Chief Transition and Financial Officer. (Operator Instructions)

各位女士、各位先生，下午好，歡迎參加埃尼（Eni）2026年第一季業績電話會議。本次會議由首席轉型與財務長 Francesco Gattei 先生主持。（接線員指示）

I'm now handing you over to your host to begin today's conference. Thank you.

現在我把會議交給主持人，開始今天的電話會議。謝謝。

Good afternoon. Amid the volatility and disruption to the energy system over the past two months, at Eni, we continue to focus on the delivery of financial performance and key strategic milestones. As we set out at our capital market update just over a month ago, we are working to deliver reliable, affordable and lower carbon energy for all our customers. Our industrial strategy, anchored to technology skills and long-term investment into top tier assets across a diversified portfolio has, if anything, been further validated in the context of the event of this year.

下午好。在過去兩個月能源系統出現波動與擾動之際，埃尼仍持續專注於交付財務表現與關鍵策略里程碑。正如我們在一個多月前的資本市場更新中所述，我們正致力於為所有客戶提供可靠、可負擔且更低碳的能源。我們以技術能力為核心、並對多元化投資組合中的頂級資產進行長期投資的工業策略，在今年事件的背景下，反而進一步獲得驗證。

Our investment framework underpinned by strong cash flow and a robust balance sheet supports us in delivering sector-leading growth. As a result, we can also reward our investors through a combination of attractive distribution and the continued rise of the capital value of the business, something that has been reflected by the share price improvement.

我們以強勁現金流與穩健資產負債表為支撐的投資框架，支持我們實現領先同業的成長。因此，我們也能透過具吸引力的股東回饋與企業資本價值的持續提升來回饋投資人；股價的改善也反映了這一點。

It's also worth keeping in mind that while energy market has been highly volatile since March, Q1 average also higher than the planning assumption set out at our Capital Market Day, were well within a historical normal range for our volatile industry. Actually, in euro terms, it was a bit softer than last year.

同時也值得記住的是，雖然自3月以來能源市場高度波動，但第一季平均水準也高於我們在資本市場日所設定的規劃假設，且仍落在我們這個波動性產業的歷史常態區間內。事實上，以歐元計價，還比去年略為疲弱。

2026 has seen very positive advancement in strategic terms and (inaudible) support this progress with strong financials. I will analyze the financial in more detail shortly. But we reported EUR3.5 billion of pro forma EBIT, cash flow from operation of EUR2.9 billion and pro forma gearing at 15%, while within our expected 10%, 15% range. Our pro forma gearing, assuming the full effect of plan into the consolidation is even lower at 12%.

2026年在策略層面取得非常正面的進展，而（聽不清）也以強勁財務表現支撐這些進展。我稍後會更詳細分析財務狀況。我們公布的備考（pro forma）EBIT為35億歐元，營運活動現金流為29億歐元，備考槓桿比率（gearing）為15%，落在我們預期的10%至15%區間內。若假設計畫全面納入合併報表，備考槓桿比率更低，為12%。

Major strategic events of the year-to-date include probably the ever best start to a year for exploration with an exceptional level of new resources discovered in seven different countries. The FID of Geng North and Gehem in Indonesia, the dual exploration strategy organization of a stake in our (inaudible) discovery. Strong production growth helped by start-up of production at NGC-Angola and first LNG export from the second Congo LNG. And in the transition sector, the agreement to reorganize and deconsolidate Plenitude and advancing two new biorefineries at Sannazzaro and Priolo.

截至目前為止，今年的重大策略事件包括：或許是勘探業務史上最佳的年度開局，在七個不同國家發現了極高水準的新資源。印尼Geng North與Gehem的最終投資決定（FID），雙軌勘探策略下對我們（聽不清）發現項目持股的組織安排。在安哥拉NGC投產以及剛果第二座Congo LNG首次LNG出口的帶動下，產量強勁成長。在轉型領域方面，達成Plenitude重組並去合併（deconsolidate）的協議，並推進Sannazzaro與Priolo兩座新生質煉製廠。

But before we get into the details of the financials, I will spend a bit more time on what was the most remarkable start of the year for exploration. As you know, we have established a track record as the leading exploration company in the sector, discovering an average 900 million barrels per year over the past 10 years. And while our impact activities somewhat front loaded, in the first four months of 2026, we have already added around EUR1 billion of new resources.

不過在深入財務細節之前，我想再多花一些時間談談今年勘探業務這個最引人注目的開局。如各位所知，我們已建立作為業界領先勘探公司的紀錄，過去10年平均每年發現9億桶資源。儘管我們的影響性活動在時間上略為前置，2026年前四個月我們已新增約10億歐元的新資源。

Critically, these new resources also all have a credible and visible pathway to development and production, consistent with our focus on efficient time to market, where we are also an industry leader. Our production growth to 2030 is visible and sector-leading, and we are building material optionality for the 30s.

關鍵在於，這些新資源也都具備可信且清晰可見的開發與投產路徑，符合我們對高效率上市時間（time to market）的聚焦，而我們在這方面同樣是產業領先者。我們至2030年的產量成長具備可視性且領先同業，同時也為2030年代建立具實質意義的選擇權空間。

In Angola, our Azule affiliate, as operator, announced the significant oil discovery of Algaita on Block 15/06, preliminary estimates put oil in place at around 500 million barrels and the presence of an FPSO, merely 18 kilometers away promises a speedy and efficient development. In Côte d'Ivoire, the Murene South-1 well significantly standard-approven area of Calao gas condensate discovery, confirming a world-class discovery of up to 5 Tcf and 450 million barrels in place.

在安哥拉，我們的Azule合資公司作為營運商，宣布在15/06區塊的Algaita取得重大石油發現；初步估計原油地質蘊藏量約5億桶，而距離僅18公里外即有一座FPSO，預示可快速且高效率地開發。在象牙海岸（Côte d'Ivoire），Murene South-1井大幅擴展了Calao凝析氣發現的已證實區域，確認一項世界級發現，地質蘊藏量最高可達5兆立方英尺（Tcf）天然氣及4.5億桶油當量。

In Libya, in March, we announced two offshore gas discovery estimated in total more than 1 Tcf in place and closed by the existing (inaudible) facilities, enabling rapid tieback. In early April, we announced the Denise discovery in the Temsah concession offshore Egypt. Our preliminary estimate for the Denise is 2 Tcf of gas and 130 million barrels of condensate in place, and situated less than 10 kilometers from existing production infrastructure.

在利比亞，我們於3月宣布兩項離岸天然氣發現，合計估計地質蘊藏量超過1 Tcf，且靠近既有（聽不清）設施，可快速回接（tieback）。4月初，我們宣布在埃及外海Temsah特許區的Denise發現。我們對Denise的初步估計為2 Tcf天然氣及1.3億桶凝析油地質蘊藏量，且距離既有生產基礎設施不到10公里。

Last, but certainly not least, this week, we announced the giant Geliga gas condensate discovery in the Kutai Basin offshore Indonesia. Our preliminary resource estimate is in place gas of 5 Tcf and 300 million barrels of condensate, effectively a second game because Geliga is close to the undeveloped 2 Tcf Gula discovery that includes also an additional 70 million barrels of condensate and thus development synergy plus the same infrastructure and trying to market the advance of (inaudible) there is a clear case for a fast track development of a third major production up and a significant production and value uplift this implies.

最後但同樣重要的是，本週我們宣布在印尼外海Kutai盆地發現巨型Geliga凝析氣田。我們的初步資源估計為5 Tcf地質蘊藏天然氣及3億桶凝析油；實際上這是第二次「改變局勢」的發現，因為Geliga靠近尚未開發、規模2 Tcf的Gula發現（另含約7,000萬桶凝析油），因此可形成開發協同效益、共用相同基礎設施並加速（聽不清）推向市場；這清楚支持第三個主要產量平台的快速開發，並意味著顯著的產量與價值提升。

(inaudible) results were consistent with the scenario condition we face, and the positive momentum we are generating in growing the company. But not all the upside of the scenario was captured in this quarter as our downstream and biorefineries were under the traditional maintenance that we execute before the start of the driving season.

（聽不清）本季結果與我們所面對的情境條件一致，也反映我們推動公司成長所形成的正向動能。但本季並未完全反映情境帶來的所有上行空間，因為我們的下游與生質煉製廠正進行傳統的維修保養作業，這是我們在駕車旺季開始前例行執行的。

E&P delivered 9% year-on-year production growth and consistent capture of venture prices. Year-over-year growth contribution from Norway and Congo were especially notable, and the outcome is after disruption to Middle East volumes in March. GGP pro forma EBIT of EUR0.3 billion is reflected in the more volatile scenario, and it is consistent with our updated guidance of EUR1.3 billion in pro forma EBIT.

上游勘探與生產（E&P）實現年增9%的產量成長，並持續穩健掌握風險承擔價格。挪威與剛果對年增的貢獻尤其顯著，而這一成果是在3月中東產量受擾之後取得的。GGP備考EBIT為3億歐元，反映在較為波動的情境之中，並與我們更新後的指引一致，即備考EBIT為13億歐元。

In our transition businesses, pro forma EBITDA of EUR0.52 billion is consistent with our full year guidance of EUR2.4 billion. Plenitude that will continue to grow both on clients and new capacity will increase its gross EBITDA by 20% to EUR1.3 billion, while Enilive will continue to see supportive biorefining margin, and we reached an EBITDA of EUR1.1 billion, 16% over last year.

在我們的轉型業務方面，備考EBITDA為5.2億歐元，符合我們全年24億歐元的指引。Plenitude將在客戶與新增產能兩方面持續成長，並將其毛EBITDA提高20%至13億歐元；同時，Enilive將持續受惠於有利的生質煉製利差，EBITDA達11億歐元，較去年成長16%。

Our refinery utilization was low, reflecting a major turnaround program, which should position us well for the remainder of the year. Meanwhile, our results in Versalis highlight some evident progress in the reported results of curtailing its losses in line with our plan. Contribution from associate reflected the macro scenario condition with reporting a strong production growth. A higher scenario of the year will enhance the results of our satellites and could improve the distribution and our cash flow, too.

我們的煉廠稼動率偏低，反映一項大型歲修計畫，這將使我們在今年剩餘期間處於有利位置。同時，Versalis的業績顯示其在縮減虧損方面已取得明顯進展，符合我們的計畫。聯營公司貢獻反映宏觀情境條件，並呈現強勁的產量成長。若今年情境走高，將提升我們衛星公司（satellites）的業績，並可能改善股東分配與現金流。

A tax rate of 42% was in line with our full year guidance. Cash flow from operation generated was in line with our expectations with good contribution from associated dividend and a cash tax rate of around 25%. Working capital had a large negative impact on cash flow, consistent with the sharp rise in prices in March, but it's not out of the ordinary in that context. We do expect to reverse this in the coming quarters

42%的稅率符合我們全年指引。營運活動產生的現金流符合我們的預期，聯營公司股利貢獻良好，現金稅率約25%。營運資金對現金流造成較大負面影響，與3月價格急升一致，但在該情境下並不反常。我們預期在接下來幾季會出現回轉。

CapEx was EUR1.9 billion, in line with the full year amount of EUR7 billion for the year. Net CapEx was broadly equal to gross with limited portfolio activity in this quarter beyond announcing, but not completing the sale of a 10% stake in Baleine in Ivory Coast to SOCAR.

資本支出（CapEx）為19億歐元，與全年70億歐元的全年金額一致。本季在投資組合活動方面相對有限，除宣布但尚未完成將象牙海岸 Baleine 專案10%股權出售予 SOCAR 之外，淨資本支出大致與總資本支出相當。

After the quarter ended, we completed on the previously announced acquisition (inaudible) Acea Energy for around EUR500 million. We paid the third quarterly dividend referring to 2025 in March and repurchased EUR280 million share. Shares in issue have reduced by 17% since the end of 2021. Pro forma gearing of 15% in corporate M&A transaction announced but not yet concluded, and represent a broadly balanced quarter for cash in and cash out.

在季度結束後，我們完成了先前宣布的收購（聽不清）Acea Energy，金額約5億歐元。我們於3月支付了2025年度所對應的第三次季度股息，並回購了2.8億歐元的股份。自2021年底以來，流通在外股數已減少17%。就已宣布但尚未完成的企業併購交易而言，備考槓桿比率為15%，整體呈現現金流入與流出大致平衡的一季。

We expect the consolidation plan to close in the third quarter with a benefit to consolidated net debt over the following quarters as plenty to funding is a strategy. If we incorporate also this effect, our pro forma gearing is actually at 12%.

我們預期整併計畫將於第三季完成，並在隨後幾季對合併淨負債帶來改善，因為充足的融資是既定策略。若也納入此一影響，我們的備考槓桿比率實際上為12%。

Updating our guidance for 2026, we confirm the outlook for E&P production with a growth rate of 3% or 4%, incorporating our current assumption for the impact of Middle East disruption. We have also updated our market scenario projection for the year in the context of the current situation, raising full year grant to $83 per barrel from $70, the TTF EUR50 per megawatt hour from EUR36 as we believe that higher price will be necessary for the refilling of empty storage and refining margin in Europe is our term to $8 per barrel from $6.

在更新2026年指引時，我們確認上游（E&P）產量展望，成長率為3%或4%，並納入我們目前對中東干擾影響的假設。在當前情勢下，我們也更新了本年度的市場情境預測：將全年布蘭特油價假設由每桶70美元上調至83美元；TTF 天然氣價格由每兆瓦時36歐元上調至50歐元，因我們認為為補充空置庫存需要更高價格；歐洲煉油利差假設由每桶6美元上調至8美元。

From a financial perspective, reflecting the changed scenario underlying outperformance, we now estimate cash flow from operation, pre-working capital of EUR13.8 billion, up 20% from EUR11.5 billion set in March. Applying our proposed updated distribution policy, this implies a share buyback raised by around 90% to EUR2.8 billion.

從財務角度來看，反映情境變化所帶來的超預期表現，我們目前估計營運現金流（扣除營運資金變動前）為138億歐元，較3月設定的115億歐元上升20%。依據我們提議更新的分配政策，這意味著股份回購將上調約90%至28億歐元。

As previously communicated, this is the floor for 2026 that will be maintained even in the case of future scenario deterioration. Actually, taking into account the current market prices are well above that level, we should expect even further increase in our distribution policy in the coming quarters. Our new policy will be put to shareholders for approval at the AGM on May 6.

如先前所溝通，這是2026年的下限，即使未來情境惡化也將維持。事實上，考量目前市場價格遠高於該水準，我們預期未來幾季分配政策還會進一步提高。我們的新政策將在5月6日的股東常會（AGM）提請股東核准。

And this concludes my remarks, and along with my colleagues from any top management on the call, I am ready to take your questions.

以上是我的發言結語；我與同樣在電話會議上的其他高階管理同仁，已準備好回答各位的提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（接線員指示）

I now leave the floor to Mr. Jon Rigby for the Q&A session.

我現在把時間交給 Jon Rigby 先生進行問答環節。

(Event Instructions)

（活動指示）

And we're going to start with Biraj at RBC. Biraj, would you like to ask your question?

我們將先從 RBC 的 Biraj 開始。Biraj，你想提出你的問題嗎？

How should we think about that EUR55 million this quarter and what we should assume for the full year '26 and into '27? And then second question is just on Indonesia. Congratulations again on the exploration success. Now that we're closer to the deal closing in Q2, are you able to say what the cash adjustment is set to be net to ENI? Thank you.

我們應該如何看待本季這5,500萬歐元，以及對2026全年與延伸到2027年應作何假設？第二個問題是關於印尼。再次恭喜勘探成功。現在我們更接近於第二季完成交易，你們能否說明現金調整（cash adjustment）淨額對 ENI 會是多少？謝謝。

Biraj, can you just re-go over your first question because we missed the start of it.

Biraj，你能否再重述一下第一個問題？因為我們漏聽了開頭。

Sorry, it's the transformation costs, the EUR55 million you've broken out, what should we expect for the full year?

抱歉，是轉型成本（transformation costs），你們拆分出來的5,500萬歐元，全年我們應該預期多少？

Okay. I believe the question about the transformation cost to (inaudible). On Indonesia, we do expect a cash settlement. And also, you know that we work in this kind of model with some distribution that are related to the capability of funding of this entity stand-alone, but we do not disclose this amount that will be any case relevant.

好的。我相信問題是關於轉型成本，關於（聽不清）。至於印尼，我們確實預期會有現金結算。另外，你也知道我們在這類模式下，會有一些分配安排，與該實體獨立融資能力相關，但我們不披露該金額；無論如何，這會是相關的。

Sure. Thanks for the question. I mean on the EUR55 million, while we started a new project, we continue to drive efficiency on all the site hearing transformation. So you should read on an annualized basis, roughly EUR50 million of efficiency that we are going to bring. So you should not multiply 55 or 4, but you should discount by EUR50 million at least of efficiency that we are going to bring.

好的。謝謝你的提問。關於這5,500萬歐元，我們在啟動新專案的同時，也持續推動所有據點的效率提升與轉型。因此你應以年化角度來看，我們將帶來約5,000萬歐元的效率改善。所以不應把55乘以4，而是至少要扣除我們將帶來的5,000萬歐元效率改善。

But you need to consider that today, this site are in transformation for the future, adding value through the new project because we are going to start the new activities. So this is something that in the future will generate the value and by the way, is incorporating our CFO for our guidance.

但你也需要考量，這些據點目前正為未來進行轉型，透過新專案增加價值，因為我們將啟動新的業務活動。因此這些在未來會創造價值；順帶一提，這也已納入我們財務長在指引中的假設。

Thanks, Biraj. We are now going to go -- sorry, one second. We'll now move -- sorry, apologies. We'll now move to Alejandro Vigil at Santander. Alejandro, could you ask your questions?

謝謝你，Biraj。我們現在要轉到——抱歉，等一下。我們接著——抱歉，致歉。我們接著轉到 Santander 的 Alejandro Vigil。Alejandro，你可以提問嗎？

Sure The first one is about the situation in the Middle East in your portfolio, or you're managing the situation and potential impact in terms of your supply contracts, your oil and gas production in general, how you are managing this context?

好的。第一個問題是關於你們投資組合中的中東情勢：你們如何管理這個情況，以及對供應合約、整體油氣產量等方面的潛在影響？你們如何在此背景下進行管理？

And the second one is about Indonesia. I remember that you were talking about the plateau of the new joint venture of about 0.5 million barrels per day. With the new discoveries, this is now a very conservative assumption? Or you reiterate this EUR0.5 million as a guidance for the production? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於印尼。我記得你們曾提到新合資公司產量平台期約為每日50萬桶。隨著新的發現，這是否已成為非常保守的假設？或者你們仍重申每日50萬桶作為產量指引？謝謝。

I leave to Guido Brusco to answer the both questions.

我把兩個問題都交給 Guido Brusco 回答。

First, on Middle East, the impact overall is marginal, both on oil production and of course, on free cash flow. We have limited exposure in terms of production. 3% of our total production comes from Middle East. As far as concerned, the products and LNG also is limited, if not 0 impact on LNG, thanks to the flexibility of our portfolio, that diversify the geographical footprint, we could basically cope with the missing volumes coming from Qatar essentially. While for the products, we -- on all the commodities, gasoline, diesel and even jet fuel, we are prepared to honor all our commitments with our customers.

首先談中東：整體影響很小，無論是對石油產量，當然也包括對自由現金流。我們在產量方面曝險有限；我們總產量中有3%來自中東。就產品與 LNG 而言，影響也有限；LNG 甚至可說是零影響，得益於我們投資組合的彈性與地理分散，我們基本上可以因應主要來自卡達的缺口量。至於成品油方面——在所有品項上，包括汽油、柴油甚至航空燃油，我們都已準備好履行對客戶的所有承諾。

So -- on Indonesia, yeah, indeed, I would say the -- that assumption was reflecting the status of the base of resources at that time. Of course, having discovered Geliga, which is equivalent in terms of volume in place to [Geng] and having also another stranded asset there. Gula, which is give and take 2 Tcf, we can basically replicate another up in the region. So clearly, this will raise the production target in the medium to long term to more than [500] I would say, [700 to 750] might be a reasonable figure.

至於印尼，是的，確實，我會說當時的假設反映的是當時的資源基礎狀態。當然，發現 Geliga——其地層原始儲量規模（volume in place）與 [Geng] 相當——並且那裡還有另一個擱置資產。Gula，大約2兆立方英尺（Tcf），我們基本上可以在該區域再複製一個開發項目。因此，這顯然會把中長期的產量目標提高到超過每日50萬桶；我會說每日70萬到75萬桶可能是合理的數字。

Thank you, Guido. We're going to move now to -- we're going to move to Josh at UBS. Josh, would you like to ask your question?

謝謝你，Guido。我們現在要轉到——我們要轉到 UBS 的 Josh。Josh，你想提出你的問題嗎？

Yeah, thanks, Jon and (inaudible) I hope you can hear me. Two questions. One, just on the buyback and your decision to list it, obviously, I understand there's sort of mechanical nature here given the new cash flow guidance, but more a question of the timing of why you felt now was the time to do it so soon after the Capital Markets Day and your confidence there?

是的，謝謝，Jon 和（聽不清）我希望你們聽得到我。兩個問題。第一個，關於回購以及你們決定把它提出來（/宣布）的原因。顯然，我理解在新的現金流指引之下，這裡有某種機械性的因素，但我更想問的是時點：為什麼你們覺得現在就是時機，尤其是在資本市場日之後這麼快就做，以及你們對此的信心來源？

And then second question, looking at your macro deck. One thing that does stand out is the gas assumption at EUR50 (inaudible), which is above the curve that you're involved in the market, you have a storage business. Can you explain maybe why prices haven't moved higher so far. What do you think are the main reasons? And why you set your assumption above the forward curve? Thanks.

第二個問題，看你們的宏觀簡報。有一點很突出的是，你們對天然氣的假設是每兆瓦時 50 歐元（聽不清），這高於你們所參與的市場遠期曲線；你們也有儲存業務。你能否解釋一下，為什麼到目前為止價格沒有走得更高？你認為主要原因是什麼？以及為什麼你們把假設設在遠期曲線之上？謝謝。

Thank you for the question that are partially connected clearly. We decided to move the buyback because we believe actually that is already evident. There is a completely different trend even versus the Capital Market Day, the market that occur at the middle of March, the event at the time were just started. Once we were presenting our first scenario that was based on, clearly a crisis, but that could be solved in a shorter time. They were not yet bombing on the facilities that occurred at that specific time and were expanded in the following weeks. And we see there is a continuous practically two months already inside the crisis.

謝謝你的提問，這兩個問題顯然部分是相互關聯的。我們決定推進回購，是因為我們相信其實這一點已經很明顯。即使相較於資本市場日，也出現了完全不同的趨勢；市場在 3 月中旬發生變化，當時事件才剛開始。當我們提出第一個情境時，顯然是基於一場危機，但可能在較短時間內解決。在那個特定時間點，還沒有對設施進行轟炸；而這些在接下來幾週發生並擴大。我們看到危機已經持續了將近兩個月。

This is not just a matter of reaching a sort of cease fire or a piece, but it's also to restart a lot of infrastructure and production facilities, processing facilities that were shut down or were impacted by fire and bonding. So it will take longer. So for this reason, we believe that there is a quite unexpected compliance by the market on the duration of this crisis that appears, I would say, much more impactful that the market is probably evaluating.

這不只是達成某種停火或和平的問題，還包括重啟大量基礎設施與生產設施、加工設施——這些曾被關停，或受到火災與轟炸影響。因此需要更長時間。基於這個原因，我們認為市場對這場危機持續時間的預期相當出乎意料地「接受」；而這場危機看起來——我會說——其影響遠比市場可能正在評估的更大。

On the gas specifically, we believe that in a EUR40, EUR45 megawatt hour environment with extended shortage of gas, particularly from Qatar because even if Qatar will be able to restart, or there will be some kind of agreement in the coming weeks, it will take time to restart all these plants for this facility to restart the floor to consider there is also bottlenecks in terms of tankers or ships and clearly, LNG carrier.

就天然氣而言，我們認為在每兆瓦時 40 歐元、45 歐元的環境下，若天然氣短缺延續，特別是來自卡達的供應——因為即使卡達能夠重啟，或未來幾週達成某種協議——也需要時間讓所有這些工廠重啟、讓這些設施恢復到可考量的流量；同時也存在運輸瓶頸，例如油輪或船舶，當然也包括 LNG 運輸船。

So the overall process of refilling European storage that completed the winter at the minimum, almost at a minimum, 25%. Now we are at 30% and to reach at least 80%, 90% before the start of the next winter, we require some price signals that should be increased. Price signal, not only in the amount of the first front month value, but also on the structure of the curve that is not supportive. So we believe that both on oil and on the gas, our price deck that we have uplifted is still conservative.

因此，歐洲儲氣庫在冬季結束時處於最低、幾乎是最低水位，大約 25%。現在我們在 30%，而要在下一個冬季開始前至少達到 80%、90%，我們需要一些應該上升的價格訊號。價格訊號不僅是近月（front month）價格的水準，也包括曲線結構；目前的曲線結構並不支持。因此我們認為，無論是油價還是氣價，我們已上調的價格假設仍然偏保守。

Thanks, Francesco.

謝謝，Francesco。

We are going to now move to Alessandro Pozzi at Mediobanca. Alessandro, you there?

我們現在轉到 Mediobanca 的 Alessandro Pozzi。Alessandro，你在線嗎？

Thanks for taking the questions. The first one is on the number of discoveries that you've made so far this year. I was wondering there is -- in your capital allocation framework, there is a little room for increase in CapEx, and we all appreciate the need to be disciplined when it comes to CapEx budgeting. And I was wondering, to this point, is CapEx more of an input to your modeling assumption? I mean, you want to stick to that level of CapEx despite the current scenario or there is some headroom for maybe accelerating some of these projects, especially the ones in Indonesia?

謝謝讓我提問。第一個問題是關於你們今年迄今為止的發現數量。我想問的是——在你們的資本配置框架中，資本支出（CapEx）上調的空間不大；我們也都理解在 CapEx 預算上需要保持紀律。我想問，到目前為止，CapEx 在你們的模型假設中更像是一個輸入項嗎？也就是說，即使在目前情境下，你們仍希望維持這個 CapEx 水準，還是其實有一些餘裕可以加速部分專案，特別是印尼的那些？

And the second question on GGP. Just wondering whether you can give us more color behind the increase in guidance and whether that is connected to your higher macro assumptions as well. Thank you.

第二個問題關於 GGP。想請問你們能否就指引上調提供更多背景說明，以及這是否也與你們較高的宏觀假設有關。謝謝。

Okay. I will just give a very short introduction, then I leave to Guido Brusco and Cristian Signoretto for the two questions. Clearly, CapEx, we are strict to a level of CapEx that we want to keep under certain range. You have to consider in exploration that there are exploration that are occurring inside our business combination or affiliates as sales that are reported in equity. So once you see a discovery in Azule or in Indonesia, this will have a different treatment in terms of CapEx.

好的。我先做一個非常簡短的引言，然後把兩個問題交給 Guido Brusco 和 Cristian Signoretto。很明確地，CapEx 我們會嚴格控制在我們希望維持的某個區間之內。你必須考慮到，在勘探方面，有些勘探發生在我們的業務合併（business combination）或聯營公司中，作為銷售並以權益法入帳。因此，當你看到在 Azule 或印尼的發現時，在 CapEx 的處理上會有所不同。

Then I leave to Guido to explain also why CapEx will be relatively softer in this case.

接著我交給 Guido 也說明為什麼在這種情況下 CapEx 會相對更溫和。

Yeah. I think there are two to handle here. One is some of the discoveries are discoveries near infrastructure. So our tieback, which are not requiring massive capital intensity. And I mean those are the ones that, on top of what Francesco said, that are in Angola, like Algaita like the one in Libya or the one in Egypt, basically, those are tie in with, I mean, low cost.

是的。我認為這裡有兩個面向。第一，有些發現是在既有基礎設施附近的發現。因此我們的回接（tieback）不需要很高的資本強度。也就是說，除了 Francesco 剛才提到的之外，像安哥拉的、像 Algaita、像利比亞或埃及的那些，基本上都是接入既有設施——也就是低成本。

The other angle is the others, which we have made in Ivory Coast and in Geliga. The one in Indonesia, it applies again, the concept that Francesco just illustrated. It is in a business combination. But on those, we can also eventually apply our dual exploration model. So the net CapEx would be even accretive from our perspective.

另一個面向是其他的發現，也就是我們在象牙海岸以及 Geliga 的發現。至於印尼的那一個，同樣適用 Francesco 剛才說明的概念。它是在一個業務合併架構之內。但對於那些，我們最終也可以套用我們的雙軌勘探模式（dual exploration model）。因此從我們的角度看，淨 CapEx 甚至會是增厚（accretive）的。

Now Cristian.

現在交給 Cristian。

Yeah. Well, on guidance of GGP. So I'd say based on the Q1 results, which were fairly strong, and the volume increase and the increase of asset trading that we have seen in a more volatile scenario. We updated the guidance, taking that into consideration. And as we said before, also extending this the same situation and scenario broadly along the next months, given the situation that Francesco just explained before to you.

是的。關於 GGP 的指引。我會說，基於第一季的結果相當強勁，以及在更波動的情境下我們看到的銷量增加與資產交易增加。我們在考量這些因素後更新了指引。而且如同我們先前所說，鑑於 Francesco 剛才向你解釋的情況，我們也把接下來幾個月大致延續相同的狀況與情境納入考量。

Is there any new arbitration that we need to be aware of for the rest of the year?

今年剩下的時間，是否有任何新的仲裁案件需要我們留意？

Say that again, sorry?

抱歉，請再說一次？

Is there any new arbitration that we need to be aware of for the next --

今年接下來-- 是否有任何新的仲裁案件需要我們留意？

No. Absolutely, not.

沒有。絕對沒有。

Okay, Thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Thanks, Alessandro. Next, we're going to move to Alastair at Citigroup. Al, are you there?

謝謝，Alessandro。接下來我們轉到 Citigroup 的 Alastair。Al，你在線嗎？

Yeah. Thanks, Jon. First question is just on gearing. Can you just confirm exactly how much net debt sits on balance sheet and that obviously gets deconsolidated in third quarter?

是的。謝謝，Jon。第一個問題是關於槓桿比率（gearing）。你能否確認資產負債表上到底有多少淨負債，且顯然在第三季會被去合併（deconsolidated）？

And then secondly, I just had a bit of a question about the biofuels market. Obviously, we're seeing massive price increases through the first quarter. You're putting a lot of growth capital in that business. But also, this week, we've seen Europe's largest airline announced cuts to routing because of the price of jet fuel. And yet, I look and see sustainable aviation for your staff is 40% more expensive than jet fuel. So I wonder how you think about the issue of affordability of biofuels in your forecasting an investment is? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於生質燃料市場。顯然，我們看到第一季價格大幅上漲。你們也在該業務投入大量成長資本。但同時，本週我們看到歐洲最大的航空公司宣布因航煤價格而削減航線。然而我看到你們的永續航空燃料對你們的員工而言比航煤貴 40%。因此我想知道，在你們的預測與投資中，你們如何看待生質燃料可負擔性（affordability）這個問題？謝謝。

Yes, about the planning to the amount of debt that they are going to deconsolidate is EUR2.6 billion. That clearly will be reduced once there will be the increase of capital as a consequence inside the new entity. And then I'll leave to Stefano Ballista to answer about the biofuel and [JSF]

是的，關於他們計畫要去併表的債務金額為26億歐元。一旦因為新實體內部的增資而帶來資本增加，這個金額顯然會降低。接下來我把關於生質燃料的問題交給Stefano Ballista回答，[JSF]

Yes. No. Yes, as you said, the scenario has significantly improved. And actually, the main reason for the scenario improvement is driven by market fundamentals. It's driven by the demand increase that we are seeing due to the regulation and the mandates that are under deployment.

是的。不是。是的，如你所說，情境已顯著改善。而且，情境改善的主要原因其實是由市場基本面所驅動。這是由我們因法規與正在推行的配額/強制要求而看到的需求增加所帶動。

And these are rules, mandates, target that has been defined. If we look at the most recent definition of new target. I'm thinking about US with a new renewable volume obligation, we got an increase of about 60% of demand for the next couple of years. So this is the main reason.

而這些都是已經被訂定的規則、強制要求與目標。如果我們看最新的新目標定義，我想到美國新的可再生燃料用量義務（renewable volume obligation），未來幾年需求增加了大約60%。所以這是主要原因。

The geopolitical situation is going to give a little bit of extra headroom, but marginally compared to the fundamentals. This means actually that the perspective on biofuel is and remain definitely strong. When you look at biofuel, you need to look both at renewable diesel on one side and sustainable aviation fuel. The market is coupled.

地緣政治情勢會帶來一些額外的空間，但相較於基本面只是邊際影響。這實際上意味著，對生質燃料的展望是、而且仍然是非常強勁的。當你看生質燃料時，需要同時看一邊的再生柴油（renewable diesel）以及另一邊的永續航空燃料（SAF）。市場是連動的。

Sustainable efficient fuel is going to be the only answer to decarbonize aviation transport. There is no other answer at the moment. And even with small target in terms of blending, now in euro, we are about 2%, you can create significant demand, but pretty much affecting marginally the overall cost position.

永續航空燃料將會是航空運輸去碳化的唯一解方。目前沒有其他解方。即使在摻混比例目標很小的情況下，現在在歐洲大約是2%，也能創造顯著需求，但對整體成本結構的影響相當有限。

So we've got significant space for improvement, not only on renewable diesel and it's happening, but also on stable aviation fuel with marginal impact on a marginal component on one -- sorry, of the component of the aviation business as a whole. So this is the view on the biofuel. And as I said, there is no other answer actually to decarbonize the aviation sector for a long while.

因此我們有很大的改善空間，不僅是在再生柴油方面——而且正在發生——也包括永續航空燃料；其對整體航空業務的成本構成中，只是邊際影響於其中一個邊際組成項目——抱歉，是對航空業務整體的某個組成項目而言屬於邊際影響。這就是我們對生質燃料的看法。而且如我所說，在相當長一段時間內，航空部門去碳化確實沒有其他解方。

It's definitely -- I mean, Europe's largest airline is basically set the can before jet fuel at this price. And I accept the mandates on 2%, but it's meant to go up. So how an earth are they going to be able to afford a high percentage of biofuel of SaaS, if it's 40% more expensive than the price of jet fuel they can afford?

這當然——我的意思是，歐洲最大的航空公司基本上已經表示，以這個價格他們負擔不起噴射燃料。我接受2%的強制要求，但它是要往上提高的。那麼如果SAF比他們能負擔的噴射燃料價格貴40%，他們到底要如何負擔高比例的生質燃料/SAF？

Yes. Okay. I can -- we can comment about what was the statement. But from our point of view, clearly, the biofuel now has a solution to have a resource [fuel] in a situation of scarcity, the premium eventually could reflect the impact of this capacity, and you have to consider the supply chain or the chain of production of SAF is relatively young and small.

是的。好的。我可以——我們可以評論那個說法。但從我們的角度來看，很明顯，生質燃料現在提供了一個在供應稀缺情況下取得資源[燃料]的解方；溢價最終可能反映這種產能的影響，而且你必須考量SAF的供應鏈或生產鏈相對年輕且規模小。

Once you will have a potential larger market, you have also improved synergies. So the cost position is not just a matter of, let's say, industrial process. It's also a matter of having this process aligned in terms of size and materiality with demand potential.

一旦市場可能變得更大，你也會有更好的協同效益。因此成本位置不只是、比方說、工業製程的問題。也關乎讓這個製程在規模與重要性上，與潛在需求相匹配。

We do expect that after this crisis, there will be as a reply, not only on environmental solution, but also apply towards a potential diversification risk to deploy a larger use of this kind of alternative solution for ships, for airplane and for cars.

我們確實預期在這次危機之後，作為回應，不僅會採取環境面的解方，也會為了分散風險而推動更大規模使用這類替代方案，應用在船舶、飛機以及汽車上。

Thanks, Francesco. Thanks, Al. We're now going to move to Michele Della Vigna at Goldman Sachs. Michele?

謝謝你，Francesco。謝謝你，Al。我們現在要轉到高盛的Michele Della Vigna。Michele？

Thank you very much. I wanted to follow up on your exploration success. And I believe you've also completed the first deepwater well in Libya and I was wondering what were the early results there.

非常感謝。我想追問你們的勘探成功。我相信你們也已在利比亞完成第一口深水井，我想了解那邊的初步結果如何。

And second, I wanted to come back to aviation, but from a different side, I think we keep reading that we may be short of (inaudible) this summer. How do you see the situation? And how low do you think inventory stays can go before flights are actually starting to be grounded. And how much do you think that in your refineries, you can actually tilt towards more jet fuel production? Thank you.

第二，我想從另一個角度回到航空議題；我想我們一直看到報導說今年夏天我們可能會短缺（聽不清）。你怎麼看這個情況？你認為庫存最低可能降到什麼程度，才會真的開始導致航班停飛？以及你認為在你們的煉油廠中，實際上能在多大程度上把產出傾向於更多噴射燃料？謝謝。

I leave to Guido to answer both questions.

我把這兩個問題都交給Guido回答。

So the one in Libya has resulted in a non-commercial discovery. And -- but it was very important either for us to have a better understanding of the basin, which is quite large, huge, diverse in terms of number of prospects. And so you have to think that this is a block where the last well drilled was drilled by us in the early 2000. So we are talking of a large basin with quite a number of untapped resources. So it's the first well, but we'll have, for sure, more understanding of the basin.

利比亞那口井的結果是一項不具商業性的發現。但是——對我們而言，它非常重要，因為能讓我們更好地理解該盆地；該盆地相當大、非常巨大，就勘探標的數量而言也很多元。你要知道，這個區塊上一口鑽井是我們在2000年代初期鑽的。所以我們談的是一個大型盆地，擁有相當多尚未開發的資源。這是第一口井，但我們肯定會對盆地有更多理解。

And as far as concerned, the jet fuel, as I said before, we are prepared to satisfy and honor our commitment with our customer. Of course, the situation is very different and diverse if you, I mean -- if you look at the different flight operator and supplier. But as far as concerned, E&I, we are prepared to satisfy our customers.

至於噴射燃料，如我之前所說，我們已準備好滿足並履行對客戶的承諾。當然，如果你——我的意思是——如果你看不同的航司與供應商，情況會非常不同且多樣。但就E&I而言，我們已準備好滿足我們的客戶需求。

Thanks, Michele. We're going to now move to Paul Redman at BNP. Paul, are you there?

謝謝你，Michele。我們現在要轉到法國巴黎銀行（BNP）的Paul Redman。Paul，你在線上嗎？

Yeah. Thank you very much. First question is just come back to Enilive. Could you give us some insights on kind of what you've seen in terms of margins, February, March and what you're seeing in April for the Biofuel business? And if they're a lot stronger, I was surprised the EBITDA guidance didn't get upgraded. Is this because biofuels is positive, but the commercial business may be having a few more issues.

在。非常感謝。第一個問題是回到Enilive。你能否分享一些你們在生質燃料業務方面，2月、3月的利潤率表現，以及你們在4月看到的情況？如果利潤率強很多，我很驚訝EBITDA指引沒有上調。這是否因為生質燃料表現為正，但商業業務可能遇到更多問題？

And then secondly, just on working capital. I think you mentioned in your prepared remarks that you expect this to come down. Could you just talk us through how you expect that to play out? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於營運資金。我想你在事先準備的發言中提到你預期營運資金會下降。你能否帶我們走一遍你預期它會如何發展？謝謝。

I'll leave to Stefano to answer on Enilive, and then I will reply on the working capital.

我把Enilive的問題交給Stefano回答，然後我會回覆營運資金的問題。

Yes. First of all, on the scenario. Actually, the scenario on biofuel improved significantly along the first quarter even before the starting of the conflict. This was true in Europe, and it's, as I said before, linked to mandates, so to fundamental. An example, we got recently approved in Holland, the new GAG target is 28% versus 3% of 14%, and we got no more double counting. So a good news, to be honest, fully expected.

是的。首先，關於情境。其實，生質燃料的情境在第一季期間顯著改善，甚至在衝突開始之前就已如此。這在歐洲是成立的，而且如我之前所說，這與強制要求有關，因此是基本面所致。舉例來說，我們最近在荷蘭獲准新的GAG目標為28%，相較於3%或14%，而且不再有雙重計算。所以老實說是個好消息，而且完全在預期之內。

Same in US, we got market significantly increasing, again, linked to fundamental. Even in the first quarter, we got an average on there about $1.5 per in. It was less than $1 last year. And now we are about $1.8 after the approval of the new target. So the market was already expecting the new mandates. In terms of output, it has been even better. So this got an extra drive in terms of overall margin. So this is in terms of market setting.

在美國也是一樣，我們看到市場顯著上升，同樣與基本面相關。即使在第一季，我們的平均大約是每單位 1.5 美元。去年不到 1 美元。而在新目標獲批之後，我們現在大約是 1.8 美元。因此市場其實已經在預期新的強制要求。就產出而言，表現甚至更好。因此在整體利潤率方面帶來了額外推動。以上是就市場定價環境而言。

In terms of results, a comment. In the first quarter, we got as Eni as a whole, EUR220 million of EBITDA pro forma adjusted. This means EUR50 million above than the first quarter of last year. And this has been fully driven by biorefinery performance, but actually on top of driving the upside, as you said, balanced the partial pressure on retail prices that we are experiencing in Europe linked to fossil fuel prices. On top, I want to highlight that actually in the first quarter, we got Venice under maintenance and upgrading maintenance.

就業績而言，補充一點。第一季，以 Eni 集團整體來看，我們的經調整 EBITDA（備考口徑）為 2.20 億歐元。這比去年第一季高出 5,000 萬歐元。這完全由生質煉製業務的表現所帶動；而且除了推動上行之外，如你所說，也平衡了我們在歐洲所面臨、與化石燃料價格相關的零售價格部分壓力。另外我想強調的是，第一季威尼斯廠處於檢修與升級維護中。

So it has been shut down for the whole quarter. And that result has been achieved without that kind of production. Venice is going to come in place during the second quarter, and we're going to be at full potential for the second half. So being the condition of capturing results.

因此整個季度都停產。而上述成果是在沒有那部分產量的情況下達成的。威尼斯廠將在第二季恢復運作，而下半年我們將達到滿載潛能。因此具備持續捕捉成果的條件。

Last comment, as I said, we were definitely expecting the improvement of the scenario even in the business plan. So this improvement has been, for the majority already crafted in our business plan, that when related to fundamentals. The extra upside, assuming the extra side is going to last for the time being, is going to get an additional value that we are capturing and we're going to keep capturing.

最後一點，如我所說，我們在商業計畫中其實已明確預期情境會改善。因此，這項改善在很大程度上已經反映在我們的商業計畫中，因為它與基本面相關。額外的上行空間——假設這個額外上行在目前仍會持續——將帶來我們正在捕捉、並將持續捕捉的附加價值。

Thanks, Paul. So watch this space. The next questions are coming from Lydia Rainforth of Barclays.

謝謝，Paul。所以請持續關注。下一位提問者是 Barclays 的 Lydia Rainforth。

Thanks, Jon and good afternoon to you, all. Two questions, if I could. I mean, just one, can we --

謝謝，Jon，大家午安。如果可以的話，我有兩個問題。我是說，第一個，我們能不能--

Now I would like just to answer about the working capital very fast. The working capital will turn back will improve immediately in the next quarter. And clearly, along the year is subject to the evolution of the spike of the price that we -- let's say, we were recognized in the first quarter.

我現在想先很快回應一下營運資金。營運資金會在下一季立即回轉並改善。而且很明顯地，全年仍取決於價格飆升的演變——也就是我們在第一季所確認的那一波。

Sorry, Lydia, please continue. Thanks.

抱歉，Lydia，請繼續。謝謝。

No, no, that was important. So thank you very much for that. Just two questions. One, I just wanted to touch on Venezuela and what you're seeing there. And then the second one -- sorry, this is more of a long-term thing. But are you -- in terms of the conversations you're having with the host nations of the government, has anything changed yet?

不，不，那很重要。所以非常感謝。兩個問題。第一個，我想談一下委內瑞拉以及你們在那裡看到的情況。第二個——抱歉，這比較偏長期。但就你們與東道國政府的對話而言，有任何改變了嗎？

Are they certainly going -- actually, we'd like to accelerate plans around exploration. We want more in terms of energy security, we want you -- involve more. So just if there's anything -- those sort of conversations, is it just too early for that at this point?

他們是否確實會——其實我們希望加速勘探相關的計畫。我們希望在能源安全方面做得更多，希望你們——更多參與。所以想問這類對話是否已有任何進展——還是現階段談這些仍太早？

On Venezuela, just a month ago, we've signed an agreement which we called Cardon for Sustainability Agreement, which would allow us to basically produce sustainably the gas and provide energy to the country. And this implies also future -- so this fits for the future essentially and implies also some activity to do some debottlenecking to the plant to increase slightly the amount of volume to the domestic and to have an export outlet for the larger resources, which Perla carries basically. Perla is a reservoir of 20 Tcf. So there is quite significant potential for an export.

關於委內瑞拉，就在一個月前，我們簽署了一項協議，我們稱之為 Cardon 永續協議（Cardon for Sustainability Agreement），這將使我們基本上能以永續方式生產天然氣並為該國提供能源。這也意味著未來——本質上是面向未來的，並且也包含一些活動，例如對裝置進行去瓶頸，以小幅提高供應國內的量，並為更大的資源建立出口管道，而這些資源基本上由 Perla 承載。Perla 是一個 20 Tcf 的儲層。因此出口潛力相當可觀。

On the oil side, we have two assets there, one in conventional water and one unconventional onshore. Two things happened. First, a new general license was issued by OFAC, which allows the operator to carry activity in Venezuela. And second, a new hydrocarbon law was enacted in the end of January this year. And this provides a framework, a legal framework, a fiscal framework to develop in a sustainable way, our oil assets. And of course, we are engaging the authorities to make this happen.

在原油方面，我們在那裡有兩項資產，一項在傳統海域，另一項是陸上非常規資產。發生了兩件事。第一，美國財政部海外資產控制辦公室（OFAC）發布了一項新的通用許可，允許營運商在委內瑞拉開展活動。第二，今年 1 月底頒布了一部新的碳氫化合物法。這提供了一個框架——法律框架與財政框架——以可持續的方式開發我們的油氣資產。當然，我們也正在與主管機關接洽以促成落實。

And Lydia's second question was on host governments and changing --

而 Lydia 的第二個問題是關於東道國政府以及變化--

In Venezuela --

在委內瑞拉--

More broadly, I think, as well.

更廣泛地來看，我想也是。

Yeah. No, I mean, broadly, there is, of course, a positive reaction from government. And we are -- we're noticing in several geographies that governments are more prone to provide the right enabler for the operator to increase exploration, provide fiscal term to produce stranded resources. Of course, there is a price element which plays a significant role, but many governments are trying to introduce enablers to make it possible. The focus is on energy security. Of course, most of them are trying to maximize the domestic production on the government side.

是的。不，我的意思是，整體而言，政府當然有正面的反應。而且我們——我們注意到在多個地區，政府更傾向於提供適當的促成條件（enabler），讓營運商增加勘探，並提供財政條款以開發擱淺資源。當然，價格因素扮演相當重要的角色，但許多政府正嘗試引入促成措施，使其成為可能。重點在於能源安全。當然，多數政府都在努力從政府端最大化國內產量。

On the international oil company side, of course, diversification is another pillar of the strategy. It has proven in the last five years that two major provider of energy, Russia and Middle East for both oil and gas have failed to -- or has proven that they could fail to deliver and diversification in other geographies like Far East and South America or America in general and Africa is very welcomed now in the strategy.

從國際石油公司這一端來看，當然，多元化是策略的另一支柱。過去五年已證明，兩大能源供應者——俄羅斯與中東（涵蓋油與氣）——未能——或者說已證明它們可能無法交付，而因此在遠東、南美或更廣義的美洲，以及非洲等其他地區進行多元化，如今在策略上非常受歡迎。

As Eni, we are very well positioned in these three geographies. We are very limited exposure to Russia. We have, as I said before, limited exposure to the Middle East. And if you look at the portfolio in the long term, which we presented also at our last CMU, the Americas, Africa and Far East will play a larger role in our portfolio.

以 Eni 而言，我們在這三個地區的布局非常到位。我們對俄羅斯的曝險非常有限。如我先前所說，我們對中東的曝險也有限。如果你看我們的長期投資組合——我們也在上一次 CMU 中展示過——美洲、非洲與遠東將在我們的投資組合中扮演更重要的角色。

Thanks, Guido. We're now going to move to Martijn Rats at Morgan Stanley. Martijn?

謝謝，Guido。接下來我們轉到 Morgan Stanley 的 Martijn Rats。Martijn？

Yeah. Thanks, Jon. I've got two. First of all, I'll ask you a broad question about demand destruction. Clearly is a topic and with a broad range of views of whether there is and how much oil and gas demand might have been destroyed as a result of these high prices. But I was wondering if you could share a perspective. And to be clear, the nature of the question goes just beyond jet fuel, which is a sort of a separate topic on side on rates. But what do you think is the amount of oil demand that has been destroyed as a result of these very high prices?

是的。謝謝，Jon。我有兩個問題。首先，我想問一個關於需求破壞（demand destruction）的宏觀問題。這顯然是一個議題，而且對於是否發生、以及在高價格之下石油與天然氣需求可能被破壞了多少，市場看法分歧很大。但我想知道你是否能分享一些觀點。我先說清楚，這個問題不僅限於航空燃油，因為那是另一個與運價相關的獨立議題。但你認為，因為這些非常高的價格，究竟有多少石油需求已被破壞？

And the second thing I wanted to ask you is about the Argentina LNG FID. I noticed there wasn't a mention any more of it in the 1Q sort of statement. But that should still be on the schedule for later this year, no? I just wanted to confirm that.

我想問你的第二件事是關於阿根廷 LNG 的最終投資決定（FID）。我注意到在第一季的說明中似乎不再提到它了。但它應該仍然排在今年稍晚的時程上，對嗎？我只是想確認一下。

About demand destruction, I think that thinking about the demand structure in a matter of 1.5 months, it's too early. So I think the demand is there. Clearly, there is potentially some small reduction potential buyers that do not afford, but demand destruction is generally happening in a certain time frame. So for the time being, you see that there is no demand destruction. There is supply destruction.

關於需求破壞，我認為以 1.5 個月的時間來看需求結構，現在還太早。所以我認為需求仍然存在。很明顯，可能會有一些小幅減少，因為有些潛在買家負擔不起，但需求破壞通常是在某個時間區間內發生的。因此就目前而言，你看到的是沒有需求破壞。反而是供給破壞。

There is storage use, and there is some kind of switch wherever it is possible to switch eventually in certain coal gas plants. But I haven't seen a real material destruction in terms of demand from the data that we can collect.

目前有動用庫存，並且在可行的地方也有某種程度的替代（切換），最終在某些燃煤／燃氣電廠之間可以切換。但就我們能蒐集到的數據而言，我還沒有看到需求面出現真正重大的實質性破壞。

About the Argentina LNG, I will leave to Guido for complete the --

關於阿根廷 LNG，我會交給 Guido 來完整回答--

On Argentina LNG, we are still projecting an FID by the year-end. And just to give you more visibility on the activity, the engineering work is almost completed, the main -- all the major APC tender are progressing. And we are estimating to complete by Q2, the majority of those and in early Q3, the remaining. And in parallel, a significant progress has been made also in LNG and NGL marketing as well as on project financing. So definitely, we are setting up ourselves and our partner and all the stakeholders in Argentina to -- for an FID by the year-end.

關於阿根廷 LNG，我們仍然預期在年底前做出 FID。為了讓你更清楚目前的進度，工程工作幾乎已完成，主要的——所有重大 APC 招標都在推進中。我們預計在第二季完成其中大部分，第三季初完成其餘部分。同時，在 LNG 與 NGL 行銷以及專案融資方面也取得了顯著進展。因此可以確定的是，我們正在與合作夥伴以及阿根廷所有利害關係人一起，為年底前做出 FID 做好準備。

Terrific. Thank you,

太好了。謝謝你，

Thanks, Martijn. And to be clear, it's probably more of a function of a long list of projects that we can't fit in every quarter.

謝謝你，Martijn。而且說清楚一點，這可能更多是因為專案清單很長，我們不可能每一季都全部放進去。

Excellent.

很好。

So moving on -- thanks, Martijn. Moving on, we've got Matt Lofting at JPMorgan. Matt, have you got some questions?

那我們繼續——謝謝你，Martijn。接下來是摩根大通的 Matt Lofting。Matt，你有問題要問嗎？

Yes. Thanks, Jon. Hi, everybody. Two, please. First, struck me looking at the revised cash flow guidance for 2026, that if we annualize Q1, the new full year targets look comfortably above that. I imagine there's probably some price lagging effects in oil and gas that impacted the numbers in Q1, particularly given prices rallied sharply in March. So I wondered if you could sort of share that the price lagging impact and how that might come through?

有。謝謝，Jon。大家好。兩個問題。第一個，我看了你們修訂後的 2026 年現金流指引，若把第一季年化，新版全年目標看起來明顯高於那個水準。我猜油氣可能存在一些價格遞延效應，影響了第一季的數字，尤其是 3 月價格大幅上漲。所以想請你們分享一下這個價格遞延的影響，以及它可能會如何反映出來？

And then secondly, obviously unusual in many respects to raise distributions and buybacks so much so early in the year. Obviously, there's an unusual macro situation that we're in, in that context as well. But in the past, you've talked about effectively a sort of a hard floor and a sort of a soft ceiling to buy back revisions. Does that still apply for 2026 against the 2.8% baseline? Thank you.

第二個，很多方面來看，在年初這麼早就大幅提高配息與回購確實不尋常。當然，這也與我們所處的特殊宏觀環境有關。但過去你們談過，回購調整大致有一個「硬底」與「軟頂」的概念。以 2.8% 的基準來看，這個概念對 2026 年仍然適用嗎？謝謝。

Yes. About the cash flow from operation results and the fact is clearly -- as a (inaudible) you know that in the first quarter, as we mentioned, there were -- downstream some maintenance, so we are not able to capture certain results also from the point of view of GGP. There were some benefit that we were able to capture partially, but just in the last month of the quarter, there is a ramp-up of production in E&P that will improve for benefit along the year.

是的。關於營運現金流的結果，事實很清楚——作為一個（聽不清）你知道第一季如我們所提到的，下游有一些維修，因此我們無法捕捉到某些成果，從 GGP 的角度也是如此。我們能部分捕捉到一些效益，但只是在該季最後一個月；而在上游勘探與生產（E&P）方面，產量正在爬坡，這將在全年帶來改善與效益。

And on the other side, you have to consider that there is distribution from associates that follow in certain cases quarterly. But in other cases, there are half year or yearly distribution. So there are various elements that will determine different distribution in the next three quarters versus what we had in the first quarter.

另一方面，你也必須考慮聯營公司（associates）的分配，有些是按季分配。但在其他情況下，則是半年或年度分配。因此有多種因素會使得接下來三個季度的分配，與第一季我們看到的不同。

The other question was -- yeah, the (inaudible) distribution is because we had the policy, and we applied the policy. I think that -- I do expect that this issue will become potentially even more unusual in the coming quarters if the market persist.

另一個問題是——是的，（聽不清）分配是因為我們有既定政策，而且我們也依政策執行。我認為——如果市場狀況持續，我預期接下來幾季這件事可能會變得更不尋常。

Thanks, Matt. We're going to move to Massimo Bonisoli at Equita. Massimo?

謝謝你，Matt。我們接著請 Equita 的 Massimo Bonisoli。Massimo？

Thank you, Jon. Good afternoon. Two questions. One on the discovery in Indonesia regarding the SEARAH JV with PETRONAS in light of the significant discovery in Indonesia. Can you clarify whether the terms of the agreement already incorporated the option of the additional resource upside you just discovered ahead of the closing.

謝謝你，Jon。午安。兩個問題。第一個是關於印尼的發現：就你們與 PETRONAS 的 SEARAH 合資（JV）在印尼的重大發現而言，你能否澄清，在交割前，你們剛發現的額外資源上行（upside）選擇權，是否已經納入協議條款之中？

And the second, on the sensitivity table, given the recent increase in volatility in physical commodity markets with widening differential across group qualities and geographies, do you believe the sensitivities you provided on bench prices are still fully representative? Or should we expect some divergence between benchmark movements and your realized profitability in the current environment? Thank you.

第二個，關於敏感度表：鑑於近期實體商品市場波動加劇，且不同品質與不同地區之間的價差擴大，你認為你們提供的基準價格敏感度仍然完全具有代表性嗎？或者在目前環境下，我們是否應預期基準價格變動與你們實際獲利能力之間會出現一些偏離？謝謝。

On the sensitivity, then I will leave to Guido for the question about Indonesia. On the sensitivity. Sensitivity, we gave -- you remember that we're, let's say, applied assuming a broader volatility range. So we're different than the usual sensitivity that we fixed on a shorter size filtration. Clearly, a volatility and -- sorry, sensitivity is just a theoretical number. We do not capture all the arbitrage also because the arbitrage cannot be modeled because we don't know where this potential gap and the fact that on the physical barrel bottleneck that could emerge.

關於敏感度，然後我會把印尼的問題交給 Guido。先談敏感度。敏感度方面，我們給的——你記得我們是，怎麼說，假設在更廣的波動區間下套用。所以我們與一般那種在較短區間固定的敏感度不同。很明顯，波動與——抱歉，敏感度只是一個理論數字。我們也無法捕捉所有套利，因為套利無法建模：我們不知道潛在缺口會出現在哪裡，以及實體原油桶數可能出現的瓶頸。

So you keep it as a key reference, but it's clear there will be some specific spot situation where the sensitivity is not applied, but the sensitivities applied also on 1.7 million barrels per day of production. So that effect is already in a certain way diluting any specific case. I'll leave then to Guido.

因此你可以把它當作關鍵參考，但很清楚會有一些特定的即期情況，使得敏感度不適用；不過敏感度是套用在每日 170 萬桶的產量上。所以這個效果在某種程度上已經稀釋了任何特定個案的影響。接下來我交給 Guido。

There are adjustments on the free cash flow working capital, but there are also adjustments on the new resources discovered in the interim period and beyond the interim period. So there are mechanisms in the agreement to readjust value accordingly.

在自由現金流的營運資金方面會有調整，但對於在期中期間以及期中期間之後新發現的資源也會有調整。因此協議中有機制可據此重新調整價值。

Thanks, Massimo. We're going to move to Fergus Neve at Rothschild. Fergus?

謝謝你，Massimo。我們接著請 Rothschild 的 Fergus Neve。Fergus？

Yeah. Hi, everyone. Thank very much for taking my question. There's been a flurry of exploration success at the start of this year, and the 1 billion BOE of resources discovered is very impressive. I just wanted to know whether there was any color you could give on further wells being drilled this year that we might be looking out for? And if there are any others you're particularly excited about.

是的。大家好。非常感謝讓我提問。今年年初探勘成果頻傳，新增發現 10 億桶油當量（BOE）的資源非常令人印象深刻。我想了解一下，今年是否還有其他正在鑽探、值得我們關注的井，可以提供一些進一步的資訊嗎？以及是否有任何你們特別感到興奮的項目。

And then secondly, it was positive to see the chemicals result improved sequentially this quarter. How should we think about this improvement in terms of the contribution from the Versalis restructuring, and then also the scenario in the quarter. And looking forward to 2Q, do we expect the business to be able to capture any improved margins should they materialize? Thanks.

其次，很高興看到本季化工業績較上季改善。我們應該如何看待這項改善中，Versalis 重組的貢獻，以及本季的情境因素各占多少？再往前看第二季（2Q），若利差確實改善，我們是否預期該業務能夠掌握到部分改善的利潤？謝謝。

I leave then to Aldo Napolitano for the exploration and Adriano Alfani back for Versalis.

那我先交給 Aldo Napolitano 回答勘探部分，之後再請 Adriano Alfani 回來回答 Versalis。

Yes, in terms of program -- exploration program for the rest of the year, of course, we had a program this year that was really front-loaded. So many of the high-impact wells have been drilled. And so in four months, we have -- so we had the sequence of results that you mentioned. However, we still have some interesting wells to drill during the year, again, in Indonesia, so in the Kutai Basin. So we plan to drill another well, another interesting prospect.

是的，就今年剩餘時間的計畫而言——勘探計畫方面，當然，我們今年的計畫確實是前置（front-loaded）的。因此，許多高影響力的井已經鑽完了。所以在四個月內，我們——就出現了你提到的那一連串結果。不過，我們今年仍有一些有趣的井要鑽，同樣是在印尼，也就是庫泰盆地（Kutai Basin）。因此我們計畫再鑽一口井，另一個有吸引力的探勘標的。

And we will have a couple of wells in Egypt and well in Ghana. So this will complete the wells, at least with certain materiality. There's a large part of our exploration portfolio in a way that is interested by drilling for near-field ILX drilling, so contributing to production in very short term, but in those cases with more limited reserves.

另外我們在埃及會有兩口井，在迦納會有一口井。因此，這將完成這些井的鑽探，至少就一定的重要性（materiality）而言。我們的勘探組合中有很大一部分，某種程度上是以近場 ILX 鑽探為主，能在非常短期內對產量做出貢獻，但在這些情況下可採儲量相對有限。

So on the chemical side, if we look back to the Q1, the transformation has a positive impact of roughly EUR100 million. Although we are facing a negative scenario because in the first quarter, clearly, there was a sort of a time lag between what Francesco was talking about before, the effect on the demand versus the effect negative of supply because we had higher costs in terms of feedstock, higher costs in terms of utility. So at the end, the positive impact quarter-on-quarter a pro forma level is a little less than EUR100 million because for the effect of the negative scenario, roughly EUR85 million.

所以在化工方面，如果回看第一季（Q1），轉型帶來的正面影響約為 1 億歐元。不過我們也面臨不利情境，因為第一季很明顯存在某種時間落差：如 Francesco 先前所說，需求端的影響與供給端的負面影響之間有落差，因為我們在原料（feedstock）成本與公用事業（utilities）成本方面都更高。因此，最終在備考（pro forma）層面，季對季的正面影響略低於 1 億歐元，因為不利情境的影響約為 8,500 萬歐元。

If we go in the second quarter, we are put in place a significant action in addition to further reduce costs and to continue the transformation plan, and we expect the second quarter significantly better than the Q1, also catching some shortage that we see on the polymer market, despite the still the high cost in terms of feedstock and utilities.

如果看第二季，我們將採取一系列重大行動，除了進一步降低成本並持續推進轉型計畫外，我們預期第二季將明顯優於第一季（Q1），同時也會把握我們在聚合物市場看到的部分供給短缺，儘管原料與公用事業成本仍然偏高。

Thank you, Adriano. We're going to now move to Mark Wilson at Jefferies. Mark?

謝謝你，Adriano。接下來我們請 Jefferies 的 Mark Wilson。Mark？

Okay, thank you. My first question is you say how you honor commitments to customers, gasoline, jet fuel, diesel, et cetera, totally understandable. And just does that flag the idea that margins can be squeezed given feedstock prices? That's the first question.

好的，謝謝。我的第一個問題是，你們提到會履行對客戶的承諾，汽油、航空燃油、柴油等等，這完全可以理解。但這是否意味著在原料價格上升的情況下，利潤率可能會被擠壓？這是第一個問題。

And then the second one, more general, yes, yet more exploration success, deepwater talking about additional developments as well. You commented previously, Claudio, on the service market and how that could potentially be tightness. We're seeing service providers talk about renewed developments. So how would you see tightness in that contractor market and any particular services you feel may be under pressure given developments that we're looking at? Thank you.

第二個問題比較一般性：又有更多勘探成功，深水領域也在談額外開發。Claudio，你之前評論過服務市場，以及可能出現的緊俏。我們也看到服務供應商在談重新啟動開發。那麼你如何看待承包商市場的緊俏程度？在我們所看到的開發活動下，你覺得哪些特定服務可能會面臨壓力？謝謝。

Yeah. About the first question on the margin potential risk on margin squeeze. This is -- for us, it's a relative risk because, substantially, we are in our chain of supply, we can able to cover most of the products that we are delivering to our customers.

是的。關於第一個問題，也就是利潤率被擠壓的潛在風險。對我們而言，這是相對性的風險，因為基本上在我們的供應鏈中，我們有能力覆蓋我們交付給客戶的大多數產品。

So from our point of view, we are not in a situation where we have to rely too much on the cargo market. There could be some volumes rate specifically on jet fuel, but this is a marginal amount. So for this reason, we do take the commitment, this is a commitment that is clearly related to our integrated value along the chain. About the contractual services in the oil market, I leave it to Guido.

因此從我們的角度來看，我們並非必須過度依賴現貨貨物市場（cargo market）的情況。在航空燃油方面可能會有一些特定的量需要依賴，但這只是邊際數量。因此，我們確實會履行承諾，而這項承諾顯然是與我們沿著價值鏈的整合價值相關。至於油市的合約服務，我交給 Guido 回答。

Sorry, I have to restart again. So I was talking with the microphone off. So there are two elements that are driving costs at the moment. One is in -- the driving the short-term cost inflation, and this is mainly driven by the conflict in the Middle East and of course, across the whole oil and gas value chain, higher energy prices, logistics, insurance, commodity costs are increasing, and these are bringing almost immediate cost inflection.

抱歉，我得重新開始一次。剛剛我是在麥克風關掉的情況下在講。目前有兩個因素在推動成本。第一個是短期成本通膨的推動因素，主要由中東衝突所驅動；當然，在整個油氣價值鏈中，能源價格上升、物流、保險、商品成本都在增加，這些幾乎會立刻帶來成本的上升。

But for one moment, let's imagine that this cost pressure will be shortly fixed, assuming that this cost pressure on the short term will disappear. There are, of course, longer-term drivers of cost pressure, an increase -- a general increase in the activity in the upstream. And we've noticed that basically, I mean, if you look at the inflation trends from '22 to '23, '23, '24, up to '25, we already had a 15% cost increase in -- I mean, starting from the 2022. And the prewar 2026 and coming here, we were in the region of the 3% to 4% of cost increase. But if you add up this short term, which I was mentioning before, the range would expand from 4% to 7%.

但先假設這些成本壓力很快就會被解決，也就是假設短期的成本壓力會消失。當然，還有較長期的成本壓力驅動因素，也就是上游活動的增加——整體活動的增加。我們注意到，基本上，如果你看 2022 到 2023、2023 到 2024、一直到 2025 的通膨趨勢，從 2022 年開始我們已經累積了 15% 的成本上升。而在戰前，展望 2026 並往後看，我們原本處於約 3% 到 4% 的成本增幅區間。但如果把我剛才提到的短期因素加上去，區間會從 4% 擴大到 7%。

Of course, this is the average. There are costs which are in the long term more under pressure like the vessel installation for the deepwater activity and others which are less under pressure like the onshore drilling rig, but this is the general overview that we see in the market. And that is backed up also by sources like IHS, UCCI index.

當然，這是平均值。有些成本在長期會承受更大壓力，例如深水作業的船舶安裝（vessel installation）；也有一些壓力較小，例如陸上鑽機（onshore drilling rig）。但這就是我們在市場上看到的整體概況。而這也有 IHS、UCCI 指數等來源的支持。

Good stuff. Thanks, Guido. Thanks, Mark. We're going to move now to Chris Kuplent at Bank of America. Chris?

很好。謝謝你，Guido。謝謝你，Mark。接下來我們請美國銀行（Bank of America）的 Chris Kuplent。Chris？

Thank you very much. Just two quick detailed questions to follow up on. I wonder whether you can talk to us about those exploration box -- blocks that have ended up with BP. Was there a consideration whether to do this with Azule, I'm talking about Namibia sorry And maybe you can tell us why not with Azule.

非常感謝。我有兩個很快的細節問題想追問。我想請你們談談那些最後由 BP 取得的勘探區塊（blocks）。是否曾考慮透過 Azule 來做這件事？我指的是納米比亞，抱歉。也許你們可以告訴我們為什麼不是透過 Azule。

And second, even smaller detail, I just wonder whether between your CMD and now, you've changed your expectations regarding receiving dividends from ADNOC Refining? Thank you.

第二個更小的細節：我想知道在你們的資本市場日（CMD）到現在之間，你們對於從 ADNOC Refining 收到股利的預期是否有改變？謝謝。

I leave the answer to Aldo for the block in Namibia, and then on ADNOC, I will reply later.

我把納米比亞區塊的問題交給 Aldo 回答，至於 ADNOC 的部分，我稍後再回覆。

So if I understood correctly, so you're talking about the blocks that BP -- the new blocks that BP has taken in Namibia. So these are real exploration blocks in frontier areas. So for the time being, it's an initiative of BP. So we are, of course, talking each other, but they are not part of the Azule energy activity.

如果我理解正確，你是在談 BP 在納米比亞取得的新區塊。這些是真正位於前緣區（frontier areas）的勘探區塊。所以就目前而言，這是 BP 的一項倡議。我們當然彼此有在交流，但它們不屬於 Azule Energy 的業務活動範圍。

About the ADNOC Refining, you have to consider that the dividend is based on two activities. One is a one-off refining the crude. So the other is related to trading. So these two activity, clearly, a different perspective under the current crisis, we do not have yet changed any assumption is not material in the overall amount of dividend that we received in the year. So I will keep the assumption as it is, and it's not -- eventually, we do believe there is a relatively hedging between these two activities.

關於 ADNOC Refining，你必須考量股利是基於兩項業務活動。一項是一次性的原油煉製。另一項則與交易相關。因此，這兩項活動在目前危機下顯然有不同的觀點；我們目前尚未改變任何假設，因為就我們今年收到的股利總額而言並不具重大影響。所以我會維持原先的假設不變，而且這並非——最終，我們確實相信這兩項活動之間存在相對的避險效果。

Thanks, Chris.

謝謝，Chris。

Sorry, the first -- the first question was this is too much greenfield. I'm aware that you are not taking part, but I just wondered why not?

抱歉，第一個——第一個問題是，這綠地（greenfield）比重太高了。我知道你們不參與，但我只是想知道為什麼不參與？

So as I said, it's an initiative taken by BP. So based on their geological reconstruction. And so I think the question should be made to BP, sorry.

所以如我所說，這是 BP 發起的倡議。是基於他們的地質重建。因此我認為這個問題應該問 BP，抱歉。

Thanks, Chris. We're going to move now to Sadnan Ali at HSBC.

謝謝，Chris。我們現在轉到匯豐的 Sadnan Ali。

Hi, there. Thanks for taking my questions. First of all, could you just remind us of the divestment proceeds you're expecting for the rest of the year? And secondly, I was wondering if there's any further updates or developments in your plans to get back into trading. Of course, a volatile price environment that we're seeing now is a perfect opportunity to capture trading profits, which your peers will benefit from. So I was wondering if the current environment has accelerated your plans at all? Thank you.

嗨，你好。謝謝讓我提問。首先，你能否提醒我們，今年剩餘期間你們預期的資產剝離（divestment）所得款項是多少？其次，我想知道你們重返交易業務的計畫是否有任何進一步更新或進展。當然，我們現在看到的價格波動環境是捕捉交易利潤的絕佳機會，你們的同業將會受益。所以我想問，當前環境是否在任何程度上加速了你們的計畫？謝謝。

On M&A, you know that we have completed Baleine in the first quarter. And also on the other side, were completed in the acquisition side, Acea Energia with Plenitude. We do expect to have a further disposal completed in the -- during the year. The one that we announced last year, there will be further opportunity that we are valorizing the [dilution] model, some (inaudible) assets that we do not consider core. So there is activity ongoing of negotiations that are getting closer to completion, and we do expect eventually to disclose later on.

在併購（M&A）方面，你知道我們已在第一季完成 Baleine。另外在收購端，我們也與 Plenitude 一起完成了 Acea Energia。我們預期今年內還會完成進一步的處分。就是我們去年宣布的那一項；此外也會有更多機會，我們正在運用（或評估）[dilution] 模式，處理一些我們不認為是核心的（聽不清）資產。因此目前仍有談判在進行，且正接近完成，我們也預期最終會在稍後對外揭露。

So to remain, as we said before, quite material this year. On top of that, you should include the deconsolidation of Plenitude as an opportunity. Clearly, Indonesia is another factor that will benefit in the partial disposal of Indonesia, referring to the 10% that will benefit not only of a scenario that is quite supportive, but also the new discoveries that are emerging and the overall upside potential that is related to that basin.

因此如我們先前所說，今年仍將相當具重大性。除此之外，你也應將 Plenitude 的去合併（deconsolidation）視為一個機會。顯然，印尼也是另一個因素，將受益於印尼部分處分，指的是那 10% 的處分；這不僅受惠於相當有利的情境，也受惠於正在浮現的新發現，以及與該盆地相關的整體上行潛力。

On the trading, I leave back to Guido.

至於交易業務，我交給 Guido 回答。

Yeah. On the trading, we had a journey which started with step one was to include the trading into the overall value chain of global natural resources to try to capture all the margin. This was the step number one. Step number two was to change the model, so do some transformation internally and turn our trading harm from a pure service provider of the different business to a marketplace where we optimized our activity in the assets driven by the market needs.

是的。關於交易業務，我們走過一段旅程：第一步是把交易納入全球天然資源整體價值鏈中，試圖捕捉所有的利潤空間。這是第一步。第二步是改變模式，也就是在內部做一些轉型，將我們的交易部門從各業務的純服務提供者，轉變為一個市場平台，讓我們能依市場需求來最佳化由資產驅動的活動。

And then there is the third stage, where we wanted to improve our soft skills in trading. We have a large base of assets. We have refineries. We have storage. We have physical oil. We have physical gas. We have a lot in terms of resources and assets, and we wanted to improve our soft skills.

接著是第三階段，我們希望提升交易方面的軟實力。我們有龐大的資產基礎。我們有煉油廠。我們有儲存設施。我們有實體原油。我們有實體天然氣。我們在資源與資產方面非常充足，因此我們希望提升我們的軟實力。

So we started this engagement with other trading players to try to combine the best of the two, the best of an oil company and the best of a trading company. And this is the objective of the third step, which are -- which is definitely forthcoming. And this scenario, of course, will accelerate it. But despite this contingent situation, we would have done in both cases, yeah.

因此我們開始與其他交易業者合作，嘗試結合兩者的優勢——石油公司的優勢與交易公司的優勢。這就是第三步的目標，而這——這肯定即將到來。而當然，這樣的情境會加速它。但即便沒有這種偶發情況，我們兩種情況下都會去做，是的。

Thanks, Guido. We're going to move to the last question, which is from Betrand Hodee at Kepler. Betrand?

謝謝，Guido。我們接下來進入最後一個問題，來自 Kepler 的 Betrand Hodee。Betrand？

Yes. Thank you for taking my question. I have just one left. On Venezuela, you had outstanding receivables of around EUR2.3 billion with an estimated realized value of $1 billion. Do you expect to recover more than the $1 billion because of the new Carbon 4 sustainability agreement?

是的。謝謝讓我提問。我只剩一個問題。關於委內瑞拉，你們有約 23 億歐元的應收款項未收回，估計可實現價值為 10 億美元。由於新的 Carbon 4 永續協議，你們是否預期可回收超過 10 億美元？

Yeah. As I said before, we just signed one agreement, the Carbon 4 Sustainable Agreement to fix the future. And now with the -- with this new engagement and conversation we are having on how to develop the oil assets, we will fix also the past.

是的。如我先前所說，我們剛簽署了一項協議，也就是 Carbon 4 永續協議，用來確立未來。而現在，隨著——隨著我們就如何開發油氣資產所展開的新合作與對話，我們也將處理過去的問題。

And so how should we think about this $2.3 billion of outstanding receivables?

那麼，我們應該如何看待這 23 億美元的未收應收款？

There will be mechanism developed to recover this past use within the framework of the development of the oil field. Is that more clear?

將會在油田開發的框架內建立機制，以回收這些過去的欠款。這樣是否更清楚？

Yes. So it's not going to be within the Carbon 4 JV, but within the new oil framework?

是的。所以不會在 Carbon 4 合資企業（JV）之內，而是在新的石油框架之內？

Or a combination or it's very flexible, but it will be essentially more focused or centered around the oil development.

或者是兩者的組合，或是非常有彈性；但本質上會更聚焦或以石油開發為核心。

New development that will clearly give more flexibility in terms of cargo that could be used or new revenues that could emerge by production -- additional production.

新的開發將在可用貨運（cargo）方面提供更大的彈性，或是透過產量——額外產量——帶來可能出現的新收入。

Think of it as an annalistic solution to the whole -- all the challenges that we have. Thank you, Betrand. Thank you, everybody, for joining the Q&A and your attention on Eni's Q1. We look forward to speaking to you soon. Have a great weekend. Thank you.

把它視為一個整體性的解決方案，用來處理我們面臨的整體——所有挑戰。謝謝你，Betrand。也謝謝各位參與問答並關注 Eni 的第一季。我們期待很快再與各位交流。祝各位週末愉快。謝謝。

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining. The conference is now over. You may disconnect your telephones.

各位女士、先生，感謝參與。本次電話會議到此結束。您可以掛斷電話。