Duolingo, Inc. (DUOL) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Duolingo's second-quarter earnings webcast. Today, after market close, we released this quarter's shareholder letter, a copy of which you can find on our IR website at investors.duolingo.com. On today's call, we have Luis von Ahn, our Co-founder and CEO; and Gillian Munson, our CFO. They'll begin with prepared remarks before we open the call for questions. (Event Instructions)

各位晚安，歡迎收看 Duolingo 2026 年第二季財報網路直播。今天在收盤後，我們發布了本季的股東信，您可在我們的投資人關係網站 investors.duolingo.com 上找到副本。今天的電話會議由我們的共同創辦人兼執行長 Luis von Ahn，以及財務長 Gillian Munson 出席。他們將先進行事先準備的發言，之後我們會開放提問。(活動說明)

Please note this call is being recorded, and all participants are currently in listen-only mode. Before we begin, please note that we'll make forward-looking statements regarding future events and financial performance. These statements are subject to risks and uncertainties described in our SEC filings and are based on assumptions we believe to be reasonable as of today, and we undertake no obligation to update them.

請注意，本次電話會議將被錄音，且目前所有與會者皆處於僅收聽模式。在開始之前，請注意我們將就未來事件與財務表現發表前瞻性陳述。這些陳述受我們向 SEC 提交文件中所述之風險與不確定性影響，並以我們截至今日認為合理的假設為基礎；我們不承擔更新這些陳述的任何義務。

We'll also discuss both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of the two can be found in our earnings materials, and we encourage you to review them when evaluating our performance.

我們也將同時討論 GAAP 與非 GAAP 財務衡量指標。兩者之間的調節表可在我們的財報資料中找到，我們鼓勵您在評估我們的表現時一併查閱。

Now I will turn it over to Luis.

現在我把時間交給 Luis。

Thanks, Debbie, and thank you all for joining. Q2 was a strong quarter. DAUs grew 23% year over year, accelerating from Q1 and coming in slightly ahead of our expectations. And we're encouraged by what we're seeing so far in Q3.

謝謝 Debbie，也謝謝各位參與。第二季表現強勁。DAU（每日活躍用戶）年增 23%，較第一季加速，且略高於我們的預期。而我們也對目前第三季的初步表現感到鼓舞。

The vast majority of that growth came from the work we do every day through what we call The Green Machine. We test hundreds of product changes, measure their impact, and double down on what works. Most changes are small, but they compound over time. As I discussed in our shareholder letter, that's also what's driving CURR, a measure of user retention, to an all-time high.

其中絕大部分的成長，來自我們每天透過所謂「綠色機器」（The Green Machine）所做的工作。我們測試數百項產品變更、衡量其影響，並加碼投入有效的做法。多數變更都很小，但會隨時間累積產生效果。正如我在股東信中提到的，這也正推動 CURR（衡量用戶留存的指標）達到歷史新高。

Another highlight of the quarter was Streak Revival, a one-time campaign we ran in June. The idea was simple: give learners who lost their longest streak a chance to earn it back by completing three lessons. More than 15 million learners revived their streaks. And what's particularly encouraging is that these users are also showing better retention than a typical re-engaged cohort.

本季另一個亮點是「連勝復活」（Streak Revival），這是我們在 6 月推出的一次性活動。概念很簡單：讓失去最長連勝紀錄的學習者，透過完成三堂課來把連勝贏回來。超過 1,500 萬名學習者復活了他們的連勝。更令人鼓舞的是，這些用戶的留存表現也優於一般重新喚回的用戶群。

We brought learners back to a product that keeps getting better at teaching languages, Chess, Math, and Music; and they're staying. We're still early in executing our strategy of prioritizing user growth and teaching better, but Q2 gave us more confidence that we're on the right track.

我們把學習者帶回到一個持續變得更擅長教語言、棋類、數學與音樂的產品；而他們也留下來了。我們在「優先推動用戶成長並提升教學效果」的策略執行上仍處於早期階段，但第二季讓我們更有信心走在正確的軌道上。

With that, I'll turn it over to Gillian.

接下來我把時間交給 Gillian。

Thanks, Luis. Welcome, everyone. As Luis said, Q2 was a strong quarter. In addition to the DAU acceleration Luis just mentioned, top-line results were in line with our expectations, and profitability was slightly ahead of our plan. As we look at the remainder of 2026, I want to reiterate how we're managing the business.

謝謝你，Luis。各位好。如 Luis 所說，第二季表現強勁。除了他剛提到的 DAU 加速之外，營收等頂線結果符合我們的預期，而獲利能力略優於我們的計畫。展望 2026 年剩餘期間，我想再次強調我們如何經營管理這項業務。

We are investing deliberately in the opportunities that we believe can make Duolingo a significantly larger business over the long term. At the same time, our team continues to operate with discipline. We continue to execute to our full year bookings and revenue target ranges of 10% to 12% bookings growth and 15% to 18% revenue growth. We have increased our target adjusted EBITDA outlook to 26.5% from the 25% we outlined at the start of the year.

我們正有計畫地投資於我們相信能在長期讓 Duolingo 成為規模顯著更大的企業之機會。同時，我們的團隊仍持續以紀律運作。我們持續朝全年預訂（bookings）與營收目標區間執行：預訂成長 10% 至 12%，營收成長 15% 至 18%。我們已將調整後 EBITDA 的目標展望由年初提出的 25% 上調至 26.5%。

As for point estimates to help you build your models, please keep in mind the following. For the full year, we expect bookings growth of approximately 11% and revenue growth of roughly 16%. At constant foreign exchange rates from our last call, the bookings growth rate would be about half a point higher. For gross margin, we now expect to end the year closer to 70% as compared to the 69% we initially expected as we drive more AI content into our products, offset by AI cost savings. We expect adjusted EBITDA to be approximately $320 million at the margin of roughly 25.5% I just mentioned, and we expect to generate over $375 million of free cash flow this year.

至於協助您建立模型的點估計，請留意以下事項。就全年而言，我們預期預訂成長約 11%，營收成長約 16%。若以我們上次電話會議時的固定匯率計算，預訂成長率將約高出 0.5 個百分點。在毛利率方面，隨著我們將更多 AI 內容導入產品，並由 AI 成本節省抵銷相關支出，我們現在預期年底毛利率將更接近 70%，高於原先預期的 69%。我們預期調整後 EBITDA 約為 3.20 億美元，對應我剛提到約 25.5% 的利潤率；並預期今年將產生超過 3.75 億美元的自由現金流。

While it is not included in our 2026 guidance, we do want you to know that the company has a bonus plan that will trigger if Q4 DAU growth is 25% or higher and would be paid out during Q1. Since it's currently uncertain whether that threshold will be met, we have not included it in our 2026 guidance. If it were achieved, we would expect the payout to be roughly $10 million in cash, potentially higher if DAU growth is higher.

雖然這不包含在我們的 2026 年指引中，但我們希望您了解，公司有一項獎金計畫：若第四季 DAU 成長達到或高於 25%，該計畫將觸發，並於第一季發放。由於目前尚不確定是否能達到該門檻，我們未將其納入 2026 年指引。若達成，我們預期現金發放約為 1,000 萬美元；若 DAU 成長更高，金額可能更高。

For Q3 itself, we expect bookings of approximately $307 million, or growth of 9%, and revenue of $302 million, representing growth of 11%. We expect gross margin to be 71%, and adjusted EBITDA of roughly $76 million, representing a margin of 25.2%.

就第三季而言，我們預期預訂約為 3.07 億美元，或成長 9%；營收為 3.02 億美元，代表成長 11%。我們預期毛利率為 71%，調整後 EBITDA 約為 7,600 萬美元，對應利潤率 25.2%。

Our balance sheet and cash flow potential remain strong. We ended the quarter with $1.3 billion in cash and investments and generated $79 million in free cash flow. We repurchased about $44 million of stock during the quarter, bringing cumulative repurchases under our authorization to $72 million, or approximately 700,000 shares.

我們的資產負債表與現金流潛力仍然強勁。本季末我們持有 13 億美元的現金與投資，並產生 7,900 萬美元的自由現金流。本季我們回購約 4,400 萬美元的股票，使得在授權額度下的累計回購達到 7,200 萬美元，約 70 萬股。

Putting it all together, our user momentum is strong. Our business model continues to generate significant cash flow, and our team is executing well in an important investment year. We remain focused on reaching 100 million DAUs in 2028, and we believe the path there can create a significantly more valuable business for our shareholders.

綜合來看，我們的用戶動能強勁。我們的商業模式持續產生可觀的現金流，而團隊在這個重要的投資年度執行良好。我們仍專注於在 2028 年達到 1 億 DAU，我們相信通往該目標的路徑能為股東創造顯著更高價值的企業。

And now I'll turn it back to the operator, and we're happy to take your questions.

現在我把時間交回給主持人，我們很樂意回答各位的問題。

We will now move to our question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

我們現在進入問答環節。(主持人說明)

Wyatt Swanson, D.A. Davidson.

Wyatt Swanson，D.A. Davidson。

Hey, thanks for the question. Appreciate it.

嗨，謝謝讓我提問。感謝。

Hi, Wyatt.

嗨，Wyatt。

Hi. Given DAUs are now expected to be above that 20% year-over-year growth in the second half of the year, could you maybe give some color as to why the full-year bookings guide wasn't raised more? I realize you're in experimentation mode, but shouldn't a larger amount of users on the platform technically translate to increased bookings, even if you're not pushing for monetization?

嗨。鑑於目前預期下半年 DAU 年增將高於 20%，你們能否多談一些，為什麼全年預訂（bookings）指引沒有上調更多？我理解你們正處於實驗模式，但理論上平台上的用戶數增加，應該會轉化為更高的預訂，即使你們並未積極推動變現？

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I mean the first thing to note is that our users don't monetize immediately. I mean they -- some of them monetize, it takes a while for them to monetize because we have this freemium model. We do expect that higher DAUs will imply higher revenue, but it's going to take some time.

是的，我覺得這是個很好的問題。首先要注意的是，我們的用戶不會立刻變現。我的意思是——其中一些會變現，但因為我們採用免費增值（freemium）模式，他們需要一段時間才會變現。我們確實預期更高的 DAU 會意味著更高的營收，但這需要一些時間。

And the second reason is exactly what you said. We said at the beginning of this year that we were going to operate in this box in terms of revenue, and we are going to continue with this box basically roughly 11% year-over-year bookings growth. And then the rest of the efforts are in increasing DAUs and in teaching better.

第二個原因正如你所說。我們在今年年初就說過，我們會在營收方面在這個框架內運作，而我們將持續維持在這個框架內，基本上大約是預訂年增 11%。然後其餘的努力會放在提升 DAU，以及把教學做得更好。

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then you noted with the extension of free trials, it helps improve both engagement and monetization. Could you just talk to some of the underlying mechanics as to how exactly that works going from one month to two months? Thanks.

了解。好的。這很有幫助。接著你提到，延長免費試用有助於同時提升參與度與變現。你能否談談其背後的一些運作機制，具體來說從一個月延長到兩個月，究竟是如何發揮作用的？謝謝。

Yeah. Just to put it into context, our monetization team, their goal this year is to find things that monetize that are not at odds with user growth. I mean, historically, some of the ways that we have monetized have been by adding friction to the free user product, and that is at odds with user growth.

是的。先提供一些背景脈絡，我們的變現團隊今年的目標，是找出那些能夠變現、但又不會與用戶成長相衝突的做法。我的意思是，過去我們的一些變現方式，是透過在免費用戶產品上增加摩擦，而那會與用戶成長相抵觸。

So one of the things that has worked the best is longer free trials. And in particular, the main one that we're trying is historically Duolingo, the free trial on Duolingo. When we say, hey, you can try it for free, it's been seven days. We give you seven days for free. That's what historically has happened.

因此，效果最好的一件事就是延長免費試用。特別是，我們正在嘗試的主要做法是：過去 Duolingo 的免費試用——當我們說「嘿，你可以免費試用」時——一直是七天。

We are now shifting most of our free trials, not quite all of them yet, to a one-month free trial. And the way that works is basically significantly more people decide to take that trial because it's just a better deal. Because of that, we got a larger number of people actually converting to payers.

我們現在正把大多數的免費試用（還不是全部）轉為一個月的免費試用。其運作方式基本上是：因為這個方案更划算，所以會有顯著更多的人決定參加試用。因此，實際轉換為付費用戶的人數也變得更多。

And the other nice thing is that as soon as they agree to go on the free trial, the experience just gets better because we turn off energy, we turn off the ads. So this actually increases daily active users as well. So we like it very much, and it's having a lot of good traction.

另外一個好處是，一旦他們同意開始免費試用，使用體驗就會立刻變好，因為我們會關閉能量限制、也會關閉廣告。所以這也會提高每日活躍用戶。因此我們非常喜歡這個做法，而且目前帶來了很好的成效。

Andrew Boone, Citizen.

Andrew Boone，Citizen。

Hey, Andrew.

嗨，Andrew。

Hi, guys. Thanks so much for taking the questions. I wanted to ask about just your role in terms of influencers. How do we think about international marketing and kind of the changes that you guys highlighted in the letter?

嗨，各位。非常感謝讓我提問。我想問的是你們在網紅／影響者方面的角色。我們該如何看待國際行銷，以及你們在信中提到的那些變化？

And then secondly, as we think about the US, Luis understood the strengths in the quarter and kind of resurrected users. Can you talk about top of funnel, though? How do you feel about trends there and the broader opportunity of attracting new users that may be new to Duolingo? Thank you.

第二個問題是，談到美國市場，Luis 提到本季的強勁表現以及某種程度上「喚回」的用戶。但你能談談漏斗頂端（top of funnel）嗎？你如何看待那裡的趨勢，以及吸引可能是 Duolingo 新用戶的更大機會？謝謝。

Yeah. So I should say our marketing team, just to put it in historicals, most of our growth has been organic through word of mouth. In fact, for the first several years, it was 100% organic through word of mouth. Then we added mainly one form of marketing, which was social, our own social media accounts. And that's still going really well. We are -- I mean we're getting more than a billion impressions per quarter on our own social media accounts, which is incredible.

好的。我先說明一下我們的行銷團隊：從歷史來看，我們大部分的成長都是自然成長，靠口碑傳播。事實上，在最初的幾年裡，成長 100% 都是靠口碑的自然成長。之後我們主要新增了一種行銷形式，也就是社群——我們自己的社群媒體帳號。而且目前仍然表現得非常好。我們——我是說——我們自有社群媒體帳號每季的曝光量超過 10 億次，這非常驚人。

But our marketing team is really starting to expand to having other important tools. One of them is creators, like groups of creators. And that's working quite well, actually, specifically in certain countries. Countries like China, Indonesia, and India. Something like two-thirds of our total social media impressions come from influencers. And what we're finding is that we are able to not spend a ton of money on this.

但我們的行銷團隊確實開始擴展，加入其他重要工具。其中之一是創作者，也就是創作者群體。而且實際上在某些國家運作得相當好。像是中國、印尼和印度。我們總社群媒體曝光量大約有三分之二來自影響者。我們發現，我們不需要在這上面花很多錢。

And what's nice is that these people have different audiences than us. And so this really just brings in a lot of new users. And this is something that we're very happy with.

而且好的一點是，這些人擁有與我們不同的受眾。因此這確實帶來了大量新用戶。這也是我們非常滿意的一件事。

We use influencers differently in different countries. Some countries more than others. But that's working really well. I should also mention that our marketing team has just become significantly more sophisticated on performance marketing.

我們在不同國家使用影響者的方式也不同。有些國家用得更多，有些則較少。但整體來說效果非常好。我也要提到，我們的行銷團隊在成效型行銷（performance marketing）方面也變得明顯更成熟。

So while still the majority of our growth is organic, we're getting good traction on both usage of influencers and performance marketing, and we are seeing that in top of funnel. So it is increasing. So we actually feel pretty good about our top of funnel. It is increasing.

所以，雖然我們的成長仍以自然成長為主，但在影響者運用與成效型行銷兩方面都取得了不錯的進展，而我們也在漏斗頂端看到了這點。因此它正在增加。所以我們其實對漏斗頂端的表現感覺相當不錯。它正在增加。

And you ask about the US in particular. The US growth has increased quite a bit in the last quarter, and that's something that we're happy with. By the way, if you look at our growth, our DAU growth is really broad-based. Basically, all regions are growing, and all regions are growing faster than they were before. Asia is still the fastest-growing, but US has increased.

你也特別問到美國。美國的成長在上一季提升了不少，這讓我們很高興。順帶一提，如果你看我們的成長，我們的 DAU 成長其實相當廣泛。基本上所有地區都在成長，而且所有地區的成長速度都比以前更快。亞洲仍然是成長最快的，但美國也提升了。

One thing I might add to that, Andrew, is the top of the funnel is part of the story of the quarter. It got better. As you know, that's been a focus area of ours. We've talked about how we want to get better there. And in almost every region, the rate of growth there improved in top of the funnel in the quarter, which is a great accomplishment for the team.

Andrew，我可能再補充一點：漏斗頂端也是本季故事的一部分。它變得更好了。如你所知，那一直是我們的重點領域。我們也談過我們希望在那裡做得更好。而且在本季，幾乎每個地區的漏斗頂端成長率都有所改善，這對團隊而言是一項很大的成就。

Your next question comes from the line of Nathan Feather. Please unmute your audio and video and ask your question.

下一個問題來自 Nathan Feather。請解除音訊與視訊靜音並提問。

Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking the question. On my end, both on the monetization angle, I guess, interested to hear what the learnings you've seen so far from giving Video Call to new Super subscribers. And how is that influencing your plans for Video Call and Max generally as we go from here?

嗨，各位。謝謝讓我提問。就變現角度而言，我想了解你們目前為止把「視訊通話」（Video Call）提供給新的 Super 訂閱者後，觀察到哪些學習與收穫。這又如何影響你們接下來對 Video Call 以及 Max 整體的規劃？

Yeah. So Video Call is an interesting thing. I mean we love this feature. It's an excellent feature for learning conversation, for practicing conversation. It really works.

好的。視訊通話是一個很有意思的功能。我們很喜歡這個功能。它對於學習對話、練習對話來說非常出色。它確實有效。

We have, in fact, research that shows that if you use Video Call, you get better at conversation. So it really works. It's really good.

事實上，我們有研究顯示，如果你使用視訊通話，你的對話能力會變得更好。所以它確實有效。真的很棒。

When we first started adding Video Call to the platform, the first time that we put a Video Call on the platform, I remember the team that was working on it told me, okay, we can give this to users, but it's going to cost, like, $0.30 per call to give to users. And that was expensive, and this is why we decided to put it behind our most expensive plan, which is Max.

當我們一開始把視訊通話加入平台時，第一次把它放到平台上，我記得負責的團隊跟我說：好，我們可以把這個提供給用戶，但每通通話的成本大概會是 0.30 美元。那很昂貴，所以我們才決定把它放在我們最昂貴的方案後面，也就是 Max。

But we said back then, if we can decrease the cost of this, we're going to try it in different places, because it is our aim to give Video Call to as many people as possible because it really helps in learning a language. The good news is that through a lot of really hard work, we've been able to bring down the cost of Video Call. It is now under $0.01 per Video Call. And the reason for that is mainly a move towards open-source models. It's just a lot cheaper to do that, and we don't see a loss in quality in there.

但我們當時就說，如果我們能降低這個成本，我們會在不同地方進行嘗試，因為我們的目標是盡可能把視訊通話提供給更多人，因為它對語言學習真的很有幫助。好消息是，透過大量非常艱辛的努力，我們已經能把視訊通話的成本降下來。現在每次視訊通話的成本已低於 0.01 美元。主要原因是轉向開源模型。這樣做便宜得多，而且我們沒有看到品質有所下降。

So we're very happy with that. And because of that, we're able to now give Video Call to Super subscribers. The state that we're in right now is most new Super subscribers get Video Call. So if you buy Super right now, you will get Video Call as well.

所以我們對此非常滿意。也因此，我們現在能把「視訊通話」提供給 Super 訂閱者。我們目前的狀態是，大多數新的 Super 訂閱者都能使用視訊通話。所以如果你現在購買 Super，你也會同時獲得視訊通話。

We expect that over the next few months, we're going to give Video Call to existing Super subscribers. We haven't quite done that to all of them. We expect that we're going to do that as well. And that's really good because more people are going to be able to practice conversation.

我們預期在接下來幾個月內，會把視訊通話提供給既有的 Super 訂閱者。我們還沒有對所有人都這麼做。我們預期也會完成這件事。這真的很棒，因為會有更多人能夠練習對話。

Now that calls into question, what are we doing with Max? And my answer is I don't know yet. There's a few possibilities, and one possibility could be that while Super subscribers get a limited version of Video Call, like limited number of Video Calls, and Max subscribers get unlimited. That is a possibility.

那這就引出一個問題：我們對 Max 要怎麼做？我的答案是我還不知道。有幾種可能性，其中一種可能是：Super 訂閱者拿到的是視訊通話的有限版本，例如視訊通話次數有限，而 Max 訂閱者則是不限次數。這是一種可能。

Another possibility, truthfully, is that we may actually sunset Max. But what I will tell you is that we're going to have an answer to this in the next couple of quarters. And in addition to that, we're going to try to do this without a loss of revenue. And that's partly why we're not going super fast here because we're trying to figure out how to do this without losing much revenue. But again, our intent is that we give it to as many users as possible.

另一種可能，坦白說，是我們可能會逐步淘汰 Max。但我可以告訴你的是，我們會在接下來一兩個季度內給出答案。此外，我們會盡量在不造成營收損失的情況下完成這件事。這也是我們沒有在這裡推進得非常快的部分原因，因為我們正在思考如何在不流失太多營收的情況下做到這點。但再次強調，我們的意圖是盡可能提供給更多使用者。

Okay, great. That's really helpful. And then one thing we've seen reports that you're testing in ad-supported tier. So just help us think through, do you see an opportunity for maybe a lower-priced tier or something in between Super and the free model? And from a user segmentation perspective, what are you really going after there?

好的，很棒。這真的很有幫助。另外我們看到一些報導說你們正在測試含廣告的方案層級。所以請幫我們想一下：你們是否看到推出可能更低價的層級，或介於 Super 與免費模式之間的某種方案的機會？從使用者分群的角度來看，你們在那裡真正想要鎖定的是什麼？

Yeah, we are testing that. It's called Super Lite. It is being tested. And now I really want to emphasize the word tested.

是的，我們正在測試。它叫做 Super Lite。目前正在測試中。我現在非常想強調「測試」這個詞。

We are -- I don't know what's going to happen with Super Lite in the end. It is cheaper than Super. It's about half the price, depending on the geography.

我們——我不知道 Super Lite 最終會怎麼樣。它比 Super 便宜。依不同地區而定，大約是半價。

It is ad-supported, so you get ads. And in addition to that, basically, you don't get unlimited energy. You get twice as much energy. So that's the idea.

它是廣告支援的，所以你會看到廣告。此外，基本上你不會有無限能量。你會得到兩倍的能量。概念就是這樣。

At the moment, still a small fraction of our subscribers are in Super Lite, but part of the reason is that we're early in the testing. We're just not advertising it very well. And of course, the goal with a Lite plan like this would be, if we're pretty sure that you're not going to buy Super, then we should try to sell you Super Lite. That's kind of the idea.

目前，Super Lite 的訂閱者仍只占我們訂閱者的一小部分，但部分原因是我們還在測試的早期階段。我們並沒有很積極地宣傳它。當然，像這樣的 Lite 方案目標會是：如果我們相當確定你不會買 Super，那我們就應該嘗試把 Super Lite 賣給你。大概就是這個想法。

And you're going to see us experiment with that over the next few months. I don't know what'll end up happening, but it's something that we're trying.

接下來幾個月你會看到我們在這方面做實驗。我不知道最後會怎麼發展，但這是我們正在嘗試的事情。

Bryan Smilek, JPMorgan.

Bryan Smilek，摩根大通。

Great. Thanks for taking the questions. Good to see you, Luis. I'm curious. Good to see CURR at an all-time high. Just curious, could you share more color on just overall retention by cohort?

很好。謝謝讓我提問。很高興見到你，Luis。我很好奇。很高興看到 CURR 創下歷史新高。想請問你能否分享更多關於整體按用戶群組（cohort）留存的細節？

Are these new free trial users that are engaging on a daily basis exhibiting higher engagement trends? Just curious anything you can add there from a retention perspective going forward.

這些新的免費試用使用者若每天都有互動，是否呈現更高的參與度趨勢？想了解你從未來留存的角度，還能補充些什麼。

Yeah. So like we mentioned in the letter, our retention, our user retention, pretty much all metrics of user retention are at an all-time high. The one we look at the most is this one called CURR, which is current user retention rate. We're very happy that it is an all-time high and that it has increased by about a percentage point in the last year, because tiny changes to CURR end up implying pretty large changes in daily active users over time because it really compounds.

是的。如同我們在信中提到的，我們的留存、使用者留存，幾乎所有使用者留存的指標都在歷史新高。我們最常看的那個叫 CURR，也就是當前使用者留存率（current user retention rate）。我們非常高興它創下歷史新高，而且在過去一年提升了大約 1 個百分點，因為 CURR 的微小變化，隨著時間推移會對每日活躍使用者帶來相當大的變化，因為它會產生複利效應。

This is pretty broad-based. Basically, you see it in every region. You see it across all types of users. The reason for this is just that the product is stickier. I mean basically, we have added a number of things, and it's hard to pinpoint to a single one because, again, every single -- we have a new version of the app every single week. And every version of the app has approximately 350 changes.

這是相當廣泛的現象。基本上你在每個地區都看得到。你在各類型使用者身上也都看得到。原因就是產品黏著度更高了。我的意思是，我們新增了很多東西，很難歸因到單一項，因為同樣地，我們每週都有新版 App。而每個版本大約有 350 項變更。

So it's hard to point to something that actually did it, but it's just generally our product is just stickier. And we're very happy with that because that's kind of the best type of growth you can expect. That is just pure -- it's a better product.

所以很難指出到底是哪一項真正造成了這個結果，但整體而言就是我們的產品更黏了。我們對此非常滿意，因為這大概是你能期待的最佳成長型態。那就是純粹——產品變得更好。

Great. Thank you. That's super helpful. And then also, kind of building on Nathan's question around Max overall, more from the speaking angle as well. Can you just share more color in terms of overall engagement with more intermediate and advanced learners, which would, in my view, likely start to take on more speaking practice within the app?

很好。謝謝。這非常有幫助。另外也延伸 Nathan 關於 Max 的問題，從口說的角度來看。你能否分享更多關於中階與進階學習者的整體參與度？在我看來，他們很可能會開始在 App 內進行更多口說練習。

Yeah. We're getting -- I mean, there's two things to say about that. The first one is that if you have access to Video Call, the engagement is very good. And in fact, that feature has just gotten significantly better. One of the main metrics that we have for this feature is number of words spoken by DAU who has access to that. That graph is a beautiful graph because it is entirely up and to the right over the last couple of years.

是的。我們——我想有兩點可以說。第一，如果你能使用視訊通話，參與度非常好。事實上，那個功能也變得顯著更好。我們針對這個功能的一個主要指標，是有權限使用它的 DAU 所說出的字數。那張圖表非常漂亮，因為在過去幾年它完全是一路向上、往右走。

It's just every month, it is a little better than the previous month in terms of us getting you to speak more. And ultimately, this will just translate in people learning better and being engaged with it. So there's Video Call.

也就是每個月，在讓你多開口說話這件事上，都比前一個月更好一些。最終，這會轉化為人們學得更好、也更投入。所以這是視訊通話。

We're also, in the free tier, making people speak more. Just there's more speaking exercises and there's also more ways to answer exercises that before you had to tap on the phone, now you can answer it with your voice. So we're pretty happy with that.

我們也在免費層級讓大家多開口說。就是有更多口說練習，也有更多作答方式：以前你必須在手機上點選，現在你可以用語音回答。所以我們對此相當滿意。

And it's exactly what you said, this is much more important to advanced and intermediate users. And we see that as something that will, over time, really help with certainly monetization, but also word of mouth, because if people are learning better, they're going to tell their friends, et cetera. So we're very proud of that.

而且就像你說的，這對進階與中階使用者更重要。我們認為這會隨著時間推移，確實有助於變現，當然也有助於口碑，因為如果人們學得更好，他們就會告訴朋友等等。所以我們對此非常自豪。

Ryan MacDonald, Needham.

Ryan MacDonald，Needham。

Hi, Ryan.

嗨，Ryan。

Hi, Luis. Hi, Gillian.

嗨，Luis。嗨，Gillian。

Hi, Ryan.

嗨，Ryan。

Thanks for taking the questions. Maybe just to ask on the bonus incentive comment sort of at the end of the prepared remarks. Obviously, the team internally is operating towards trying to get to that 25% rate. How should we think about that translating to, let's call it, the pace of new experimentation between now and the end of the year?

謝謝讓我提問。我想針對你在事先準備的發言末段提到的獎金激勵評論問一下。顯然，團隊內部正朝著努力達到那個 25% 的比率在運作。我們應該如何理解這會如何轉化為——姑且這麼說——從現在到年底之間新實驗的推進節奏？

And if that picks up, are there any sort of features or initiatives that you'd call out that you're most excited about? Or is this really about just letting the changes and the experiments you've already made continue to sort of mature within the market and let them produce results?

如果那個節奏加快，有沒有任何你特別想點名、最讓你興奮的功能或計畫？還是說這其實主要是讓你們已經做出的變更與實驗繼續在市場中成熟，並讓它們產生成果？

It's a bit of both. So certainly, our rate of experimentation will continue. It's pretty high this year. So if you look at actually number of experiments that we're putting out per week, that keeps growing.

兩者都有。所以當然，我們的實驗速度會持續。今年其實已經很高了。如果你看我們每週推出的實驗數量，還在持續增加。

Over the last year, that has significantly increased. In fact, it has increased faster than our headcount. So that means that per person, we're actually putting out more experiments every week.

在過去一年，這個數字大幅提升。事實上，它增加的速度比我們的人員編制還快。這表示以每個人來看，我們每週實際上推出更多實驗。

So we're -- you will see that throughout the rest of the year. There's a lot of experimentation that's going to happen. And generally, that's across all the things that we experiment. Teaching better and daily active user growth are where we're spending our focus, but you're also going to see experimentation and monetization, et cetera.

所以——你在今年剩下的時間都會看到這點。會有大量的實驗發生。而且一般來說，涵蓋我們會做實驗的所有面向。把教學做得更好以及每日活躍用戶（DAU）成長是我們投入重點，但你也會看到在變現等方面的實驗，等等。

And it's related to the bonus in some way, but mainly, it's just this year, our goal as a company was we decided we are going to focus most of our efforts of our incredible experimentation machine to just make it so that we can continue growing daily active users, because we think that if -- as we said many times, if we can get to a company that is 100 million daily active users, that's just a much bigger business, and that's where we want to get to. But you will see experimentation. You'll see a lot, as you usually see from us.

這在某種程度上與獎金有關，但主要是今年我們作為一家公司所設定的目標：我們決定要把我們這台強大的實驗機器的大部分火力，集中在讓每日活躍用戶持續成長，因為我們認為——正如我們多次說過的——如果我們能成為一家擁有 1 億每日活躍用戶的公司，那就是一個大得多的生意，而那正是我們想達到的。但你會看到實驗。你會看到很多，就像你一向從我們這裡看到的一樣。

Excellent. Then maybe on Max. You obviously are sort of working on a lot of things with Max right now, and one being sort of Super or Voice sort of being rolled out more to Super. Is there any sort of, I would call it, new feature product development that's sort of maybe geared or aimed towards the Max tier at this point that could potentially sort of continue to extend the life of that tier? Or is really everything more focused sort of at the lower tier experimentation right now?

很好。那接著談談 Max。你們現在顯然在 Max 上做很多事情，其中之一是 Super 或 Voice 之類的功能更廣泛地向 Super 推出。目前是否有任何——我稱之為——新的功能或產品開發，是比較針對或瞄準 Max 等級的，可能有助於延長該等級的生命週期？還是說目前一切其實更聚焦在較低等級的實驗？

So I won't rule that out. It may happen that we develop something that we end up putting behind Max. We're developing a lot of features, and there may be some that because of costs of them or something, we end up putting them behind Max.

所以我不會排除那種可能。我們可能會開發出某些東西，最後把它放在 Max 後面。我們正在開發很多功能，其中可能有一些因為成本或其他原因，最後我們會把它們放在 Max 後面。

But that is not the goal. The goal really is to try to give particularly speaking features, which are the most expensive ones to provide. The goal is to provide it to as many users as possible. Because again, we just believe that the more people have access to this, the more word of mouth; the more users we have, and the larger this business becomes. So that's the goal.

但那不是目標。目標其實是盡可能把——特別是口說類功能——這些提供成本最高的功能，提供給盡可能多的用戶。因為再一次，我們相信越多人能使用它，口碑就越多；用戶越多，這門生意就越大。所以這才是目標。

So I guess what I'll say is that's not what we're trying to do, but it may be that in two months I come back and say, hey, Max, I actually got a new feature.

所以我想我會說，我們不是想這麼做，但也可能兩個月後我回來說，嘿，Max，我其實有一個新功能。

And that is not because I'm trying to be secretive to you. I just don't know what'll end up happening in terms of cost of certain features that we're developing.

那不是因為我想對你保密。我只是還不知道我們正在開發的某些功能，最後在成本上會怎麼落地。

Appreciate the clarity. Thanks, Luis.

感謝說明得很清楚。謝謝，Luis。

Shweta Khajuria, Wolfe Research.

Shweta Khajuria，Wolfe Research。

Hi, Shweta, how are you?

嗨，Shweta，你好嗎？

Hello.

你好。

Good, thanks. Good to see both of you. Thanks for taking my questions. First one is on attention span for users. As attention span, I guess, decreases, how is the engagement and session time across the app trending? And I guess, how are you addressing that?

很好，謝謝。很高興見到你們兩位。謝謝讓我提問。第一個問題是關於用戶的注意力持續時間。隨著注意力持續時間（我想）下降，App 內的互動度與單次使用時長（session time）趨勢如何？以及你們如何應對？

And then the second is on Math and Music. Could you please talk about just the product roadmap as you see Math and Music develop through the year and how that could drive contribution to DAU growth? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於數學和音樂。能否請你談談你們對數學與音樂在今年內發展的產品路線圖，以及這可能如何推動對 DAU 成長的貢獻？謝謝。

Yeah. Thank you. I think part of your question is something that we've said in the past, which is just the world in general, attention span is going down. I mean if you look at how people use things like social media apps, they use them in, like, 10-second bursts. And whereas for Duolingo, our lesson on Duolingo is maybe two minutes. That is something that we need to address.

好的。謝謝。我想你問題的一部分是我們過去提過的：整體而言，世界的注意力持續時間正在下降。如果你看人們如何使用社群媒體 App，他們是以大概 10 秒一段的方式在使用。而對 Duolingo 來說，我們在 Duolingo 上的一堂課可能是兩分鐘。這是我們需要去處理的事情。

And we are working on that, trying to make the minimum session length longer. We're testing stuff there, but we have not yet released anything. Part of the issue there is that if you make the minimum session length shorter, that's good, but you got to make sure that people actually also come back many other times in the day so that it compounds. And that's kind of what we're trying -- what we're experimenting with. But it is something we're actively experimenting with.

我們也正在做這件事，嘗試讓最短的單次使用時長更長。我們在那裡測試一些東西，但目前還沒有釋出任何內容。其中一部分的問題是，如果你把最短的單次使用時長縮短，這是好事，但你必須確保人們在一天之中也會回來很多次，這樣才能累積效果。而這就是我們正在嘗試——正在實驗的方向。但這確實是我們正在積極實驗的事情。

In terms of Math and Music, we're pretty excited about both of those. I should say, there's still -- certainly when compared to Chess, they're still -- even though they do have single-digit millions of DAUs, they're much smaller than Chess. So we do expect growth from both of them.

至於數學和音樂，我們對這兩個都相當興奮。我也要說，當然——尤其是與西洋棋相比——它們仍然……即使它們各自都有數百萬、且是個位數百萬的 DAU，它們仍然比西洋棋小得多。所以我們確實預期它們兩者都會成長。

But the contribution to our overall -- I mean, we have 60-some million daily active users. But even a 50% growth here doesn't contribute all that much. But we are -- we do expect that they are growing -- we expect them to grow.

但對我們整體的貢獻——我的意思是，我們有 6,000 多萬每日活躍用戶。即便這裡成長 50%，對整體貢獻也不算太多。但我們——我們確實預期它們正在成長——也預期它們會繼續成長。

Probably the easiest one to talk about in terms of strategy is Math because we are -- we understand that pretty well, or at least better than Music, I think. With Math, originally when we launched Math, I thought, and I was wrong, I thought that we could get the average person on the street to get addicted to learning Math. I was wrong. I don't believe we can do that.

就策略而言，最容易談的大概是數學，因為我們對它的理解相當充分，或者至少我覺得比音樂更充分。在數學方面，最初我們推出數學時，我以為——而且我錯了——我以為我們可以讓街上的一般人對學數學上癮。我錯了。我不相信我們能做到。

So our strategy is actually to mainly teach math to the people who actually need to learn math, which are basically K-12 students. Now we may not sell to schools, that's not our goal, to sell to schools. But it's at least that the user, our user base for math, is mainly under 18. And as soon as we started working on that clarified a lot of things.

所以我們的策略其實主要是把數學教給真正需要學數學的人，也就是基本上 K-12 的學生。我們可能不會賣給學校，那不是我們的目標——不是要賣給學校。但至少在用戶層面，我們的數學用戶群主要是 18 歲以下。而當我們開始朝這個方向做之後，很多事情就變得更清楚了。

And I think we started making a lot more progress, rather than trying to get your average 35-year-old person who hates math to suddenly love it. I would love to do that, but I've given up on that one.

而且我覺得我們開始取得更多進展，而不是試圖讓一個討厭數學的普通 35 歲的人突然愛上數學。我很想做到那樣，但我已經放棄那個目標了。

And in music, it's a bit early. We are working a lot on music. We'll have more to say about music in maybe a quarter or two.

至於音樂，現在還有點早。我們在音樂方面投入很多。也許再過一到兩個季度，我們會有更多關於音樂的內容可以分享。

Okay. Thanks, Luis. 35 may be a bit too late for math. You don't like it, you don't like it. All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝你，Luis。35 歲可能對數學來說有點太晚了。你不喜歡就是不喜歡。好。謝謝。

You don't like it -- I really wanted to get people to love math. That's what I want.

你不喜歡——我真的很想讓大家愛上數學。那就是我想要的。

Me too. All right. Thank you. Thank you both.

我也是。好。謝謝。謝謝你們兩位。

Mark Mahaney, Evercore.

Mark Mahaney，Evercore。

Hey, I'm trying to come on here. All right. Sorry about that. Let's see. Hey, hello to both of you.

嗨，我正要加入。好。抱歉剛才那樣。我看看。嗨，兩位好。

Your comment about Video Call functionality, I'm sorry, Luis, were you saying that you could make it available to all Duolingo users or all Super subscribers?

關於你提到的視訊通話功能，抱歉 Luis，你是說你們可以讓它提供給所有 Duolingo 使用者，還是所有 Super 訂閱者？

Our goal -- look, I would love to make it available to all Duolingo users. I don't think we can do that right now. My goal in the moment is to make it available to all Super subscribers.

我們的目標——你看，我很希望能提供給所有 Duolingo 使用者。但我不認為我們現在做得到。我目前的目標是先提供給所有 Super 訂閱者。

Okay. And the gating factor for it not to be available to all users is just price, right, or cost, I mean. You bring it down by another 90% next year and you could do it.

了解。那麼，之所以還無法提供給所有使用者的限制因素，就只是價格（或成本）對吧？如果你們明年再把成本降低 90%，就可以做到。

Yes, but there's one other thing that we do have to take into account. This is one of the main things that gets people to buy. So if suddenly all users have it, there's less incentive to buy, and then we would have to find other reasons to get people to buy. So there's a little bit of a trade-off here. So it's both cost, and this is one of the main things that gets people to buy.

是的，但還有另一件事我們也必須納入考量。這是促使人們購買（訂閱）的主要因素之一。所以如果突然所有使用者都有了，購買的誘因就會變少，接著我們就得找到其他理由讓人們願意買。因此這裡有一點取捨。所以同時是成本問題，而且這也是促使人們購買的主要因素之一。

Okay. And then I want to switch gears and ask you about advertising. And I think you've maybe changed a little bit the last couple of years in terms of your view on both advertising revenue and on advertising spend. Where are you on that journey? Is there something that you've seen that's made you maybe a little bit more constructive on marketing spend and the efficiency of it and the desirability, perhaps, of advertising revenue?

了解。接著我想換個話題問你們廣告的事。我覺得過去幾年你們對廣告收入與廣告投放的看法可能有些改變。你們目前走到哪一步了？是否有看到什麼，讓你們對行銷投放的支出、效率，以及（或許）廣告收入的吸引力，變得更偏正面一些？

You are right, that over the last couple of years, I have come around to ads, both in terms of ad revenue and ad spend. A couple of things to say. For the -- in terms of ad revenue, I mean for the foreseeable future, we will remain a subscription business. I mean our subscription business is much larger than ads and it will continue being like that for a while.

你說得對，過去幾年我對廣告的看法確實轉變了，包含廣告收入與廣告投放。有幾點想說。就廣告收入而言，我的意思是，在可預見的未來，我們仍會是一家以訂閱為主的公司。我們的訂閱業務規模遠大於廣告，而且在一段時間內都會維持這樣。

However, we see a pretty large opportunity with ads. I mean we are -- we have a lot of users. We have a lot of active users. And pretty much every app our size, or larger than us, makes a ton more money from ads than we do.

不過，我們確實看到廣告有相當大的機會。我們——我們有很多使用者。我們有很多活躍使用者。而幾乎每一個跟我們同等規模、或比我們更大的 App，從廣告賺到的錢都比我們多得多。

So we see a pretty big opportunity there, which is why we have become a lot more sophisticated on that over the last -- there was a time at Duolingo a couple of years ago where our entire investment in ad revenue was half a person. There was one person whose half-time job was to deal with ads. So this is how much we were investing then.

所以我們看到那裡有很大的機會，這也是為什麼在過去——我們在這方面變得成熟許多。幾年前 Duolingo 曾有一段時間，我們在廣告收入上的整體投入只有「半個人」。有一個人把一半的工作時間用來處理廣告。所以那時我們的投入就是這麼少。

We now have a team. It's significantly much more professional. They know what they're doing. So I would expect that over the next few quarters, that you're going to see some improvements in our ads business.

現在我們有一個團隊。專業度高很多。他們知道自己在做什麼。所以我預期接下來幾個季度，你會看到我們的廣告業務有所改善。

This takes some time to get the hang of it, but what I'm seeing is we're just going to be able to give significantly higher quality ads in our product that also make us more money. So we're working on that. This is active work stream that we're doing. So there's that.

這需要一些時間才能上手，但我看到的是：我們將能在產品中提供品質明顯更高、同時也能為我們帶來更多收入的廣告。所以我們正在做這件事。這是我們正在推進的主動工作流之一。大概就是這樣。

In terms of ad spend, like for marketing for us, we're also significantly more sophisticated. I mean there was a while where I was massively allergic to performance marketing. The way I see it now is I don't think that we want to get addicted to performance marketing because that's never good. However, it is a good tool to have to complement your other marketing strategies.

至於廣告投放（也就是我們的行銷支出），我們也變得成熟許多。我曾經有一段時間對成效型行銷非常排斥。我現在的看法是：我不認為我們應該對成效型行銷上癮，因為那從來都不是好事。不過，它是一個很好的工具，可以用來補強你其他的行銷策略。

So our marketing team, which I really think is probably the best marketing team in the world, has now started adding, as another strategy, performance marketing. And we're very happy with that. We're seeing the results in our top of funnel for that.

所以我們的行銷團隊——我真的認為可能是全世界最好的行銷團隊——現在開始把成效型行銷作為另一項策略加入。我們對此非常滿意。我們也在漏斗上端（top of funnel）看到相應的成果。

Ygal Arounian, Wedbush.

Ygal Arounian，Wedbush。

Hi, Ygal.

嗨，Ygal。

Hey, Luis. Hey, Gillian. Thanks for taking the questions. I guess, as I listened to the call and what we're talking about here, it feels a little bit like we're starting to maybe shift or start to focus a little bit more on monetization, talking about ads and new tiers. Is that fair?

嗨，Luis。嗨，Gillian。謝謝你們回答問題。我想，聽了這通電話以及我們在這裡談的內容，感覺有點像你們可能開始轉向、或更聚焦在變現上，像是在談廣告和新的分級方案。這樣說公平嗎？

Not to say that you're moving away from the optimization around DAUs, but it does feel like you are maybe shifting a little bit on the monetization side. How do you think about that transition? When is the right time? What's involved? Then I have a follow-up.

不是說你們要從 DAU 的最佳化上移開，但確實感覺你們在變現面可能稍微轉了一點。你們怎麼看待這個轉換？什麼時候是合適的時機？需要做哪些事情？然後我還有一個追問。

Yeah. I mean it's perceptive of you. It's a good question. The reality is this year, and for a while, we really -- one of the main thing that we're concentrating on is expanding our active user base because we just think that more users is just better for everything, significantly larger business, et cetera. And we have this aggressive goal to try to get to 100 million daily active users.

是的。你的觀察很敏銳。這是個好問題。現實是今年、以及一段時間以來，我們真正——我們主要專注的其中一件事，是擴大我們的活躍使用者基礎，因為我們認為使用者越多，對所有事情都更好：業務規模更大等等。而且我們有一個很積極的目標，想要達到 1 億日活躍使用者（DAU）。

We feel good about that goal. We think we can make it. And if we do get there, kind all things get better. Just more users, you can make more money. All things get better.

我們對這個目標很有信心。我們認為我們做得到。而如果我們真的達到那裡，某種程度上所有事情都會變得更好。使用者更多，你就能賺更多錢。所有事情都會更好。

It is true that our experimentation -- when we started the year, we had a little bit of a pause on monetization in the sense that we're like, whoa, whoa, wait. Any monetization that we're doing that is counter to DAU growth, don't do it. And the reality is we were doing a number of things that were counter to DAU growth.

確實，我們的實驗——在今年一開始時，我們在變現上稍微踩了煞車，意思是我們會說：等等、等等、先等一下。任何與 DAU 成長相抵觸的變現做法，都不要做。而現實是，我們當時確實在做一些與 DAU 成長相抵觸的事情。

So we kind of had a little bit of a reset. At this point, enough time has passed that we understand levers significantly better. So we are a little more back into like, okay, this type of monetization is good, this type of monetization is good. So for example, we mentioned longer free trials. We understand that and we are going hard on those.

所以我們算是做了一次小幅度的重置。到這個時間點，已經過了足夠久，讓我們對各種槓桿的理解明顯更到位。所以我們又比較回到那種「好，這種變現方式不錯、那種變現方式也不錯」的狀態。例如，我們提到更長的免費試用期。我們理解這一點，而且正在大力推進。

Ads is another business that we're perfectly happy if we have significantly better quality of ads and make more money from them. We're very happy with that because that's also DAU aligned. So we are funding that.

廣告也是另一塊業務；只要我們能把廣告品質做得顯著更好，並從中賺到更多錢，我們完全樂見其成。我們對此很滿意，因為那也與 DAU 的目標一致。所以我們正在投入資源支持這件事。

So it is true that we're probably taking it more seriously. I don't know if that's the right term. We're focusing a little more on it than when compared to six months ago. So that is true.

所以確實，我們可能更認真看待這件事了。我不確定「更認真」是不是最貼切的說法。但相較於六個月前，我們確實把更多注意力放在這上面。所以這點是真的。

I don't think there's a time when we're like, a lot of people ask us, oh, when are you going to stop worrying about DAUs and when are you going to start making money? A lot of people ask us that. I don't think that we're going to have a shift like that.

我不覺得會有某個時間點是——很多人會問我們：「你們什麼時候才會不再擔心 DAU，開始賺錢？」很多人都這樣問。我不認為我們會出現那種轉變。

We're going to continue really trying to get to 100 million DAUs in 2028. But you'll see probably increased monetization focus gradually over time as we find ways to monetize that are not at odds with DAU growth.

我們會持續努力在 2028 年達到 1 億 DAU。但你可能會看到，隨著時間推移，當我們找到不與 DAU 成長相衝突的變現方式時，對變現的關注會逐步提高。

Okay. That's really helpful. And then I want to come back to the comments you made about the open-source models and how that's driven down AI compute costs. So, A, how should we think about that opportunity in terms of the margin structure over time? It feels like there's multiple levers you could pull on that. And it's an interesting theme because we've heard this over and over again, this earnings cycle from a lot of companies and this lean into open-source models.

好的。這非常有幫助。接著我想回到你剛才提到的開源模型，以及它如何拉低 AI 算力成本。所以，A，從長期來看，我們應該如何看待這個機會對毛利／利潤結構的影響？感覺這裡有多個槓桿可以操作。而且這是一個很有意思的主題，因為在這一輪財報季，我們一再從很多公司聽到：更倚重開源模型。

And then how does that change the product velocity? Because I know AI's been a big component in driving your product velocity. So does that become a bigger opportunity, with the cost coming down? Thanks.

另外，這會如何改變產品迭代速度？因為我知道 AI 一直是推動你們產品迭代速度的重要因素。那麼隨著成本下降，這會不會成為更大的機會？謝謝。

Yeah. I mean, at the highest level, it just turns out that there's -- when compared to a year ago, there's just significantly better open-source options now. And while for some stuff they are behind the frontier labs, they're not that behind for most things, maybe three to six months.

是的。我的意思是，從最高層次來看，跟一年前相比，現在確實有顯著更好的開源選項。雖然在某些方面它們落後於前沿實驗室（frontier labs），但對大多數事情而言其實沒有落後太多，可能只差三到六個月。

I mean it just turns out that for a lot of applications, you don't need the absolute smartest model. Like the reality is the quality's indistinguishable for many applications that we use. For example, serving a call, like a conversation practice to somebody who can only speak 100 words of a language.

事實上，很多應用場景並不需要絕對最聰明的模型。現實是，對我們使用的許多應用而言，品質幾乎難以分辨差異。例如，提供語音通話服務——像是讓只會說某種語言 100 個單字的人做對話練習。

Your model doesn't need to be as good as a philosopher. You're probably going to talk about, I don't know, frying eggs. Like you're not going to talk about very sophisticated stuff. So we find that in a lot of cases, we can switch to the open-source model.

你的模型不需要好到像哲學家一樣。你大概會聊的是——我不知道——煎蛋之類的。你不會談非常高深的內容。所以我們發現，在很多情況下，我們可以切換到開源模型。

Internally, of course, we're still using many models from, say, OpenAI, Anthropic, and we'll continue doing that. And it'll just always be a decision, a trade-off between can we do it at roughly the same quality, but with the open source? And if that's the case, we'll use the open source. There are still cases where we're not able to, and in those cases, we'll continue paying.

當然，在內部我們仍然會使用許多模型，例如來自 OpenAI、Anthropic 的模型，而且我們會繼續這麼做。這永遠會是一個決策：在品質大致相同的情況下，我們能不能用開源來做到？如果可以，我們就會用開源。仍然有一些情況我們做不到，那些情況下我們就會繼續付費。

But I do expect that what'll happen is that the cost per usage of AI, like whatever it is, the cost per token, if you want to call it, will come down for us because we will continue moving more and more to open source. And I also -- just like you said, that'll probably mean that we're able to offer more and more AI features to more users. And so I'm pretty excited about that in general.

但我確實預期，接下來會發生的是：AI 的單次使用成本——不管那是什麼，若你要稱之為每 token 成本——對我們而言會下降，因為我們會持續把越來越多的部分轉向開源。而且我也——就像你說的——這大概意味著我們能把更多 AI 功能提供給更多使用者。所以整體而言我對此非常興奮。

Yeah, and the way to think about it is, we set out the year to be very patient with ourselves about what the business model's going to be. So we really have been trying to stick to this idea that we're going to grow bookings 10% to 12%, revenue 15% to 18%. And when we started the year, a 25% adjusted EBITDA margin felt like the right level of investment relative to growth.

是的，而理解方式是：我們在年初就決定要對商業模式會是什麼這件事，對自己保持非常有耐心。所以我們一直努力堅持這個想法：我們要讓 bookings 成長 10% 到 12%，營收成長 15% 到 18%。而在年初時，25% 的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率，感覺是在成長相對應的投資水準上是合適的。

What we're basically saying is by going up about a point and a half on that adjusted EBITDA margin, we are seeing AI cost savings that will give us a bit of a structurally better margin, even with our goal to put voice call out to all Super users over the course of the year.

我們基本上是在說：把調整後 EBITDA 利潤率提高大約 1.5 個百分點的同時，我們看到了 AI 成本節省，這會讓我們的利潤率結構性地更好一些——即便我們的目標是在今年內把語音通話功能推送給所有 Super 使用者。

Justin Patterson, KeyBanc.

Justin Patterson，KeyBanc。

Justin, hello.

Justin，你好。

Hi, Justin.

嗨，Justin。

Hi, good afternoon. (inaudible) first, could you talk through just what's driving the confidence level behind that acceleration in Q4? Is that simply easy comps, or are you just seeing something with the product side finally starting to click there?

嗨，午安。（聽不清）首先，你能談談是什麼驅動你們對第四季加速的信心嗎？那只是因為比較基期變得容易，還是你們在產品端看到某些東西終於開始奏效？

And then Luis, I just wanted to go back to making the mission affordable or making education affordable for the masses. Obviously, as you increase advertising in there, you do start to have a tension point in there of people get frustrated with the user experience in it. Does that start causing some bad behaviors? So would love to hear more how you're thinking through the guardrails of still monetizing across the business while still having education be widely accessible within here. Thank you.

另外 Luis，我想回到「讓使命可負擔」或「讓大眾都能負擔教育」這件事。顯然，當你們增加廣告時，確實會出現一個張力點：人們會對使用者體驗感到挫折。這會不會開始造成一些不良行為？所以很想多聽聽你們如何思考護欄（guardrails）：在整個業務變現的同時，仍然讓教育在這裡能被廣泛取得。謝謝。

You want me to cover the bookings guidance. So on the bookings guidance, the reality is how the year is playing out hasn't really changed too much. Of course, we've held the guidance. Q2 was a little better than we expected, so you're basically seeing us adjust for that in the guidance.

你希望我說明 bookings 指引。關於 bookings 指引，現實是今年的進展其實沒有太大改變。當然，我們維持了指引。第二季比我們預期稍微好一些，所以你看到的基本上是我們在指引中對此做了調整。

I think it's important to remember that our bookings guidance also includes about half a point of FX headwind. So net-net, you're probably at a little bit of a better place. But I think the year is playing out the way we thought.

我認為重要的是要記得，我們的 bookings 指引也包含大約 0.5 個百分點的匯率逆風。所以綜合來看，你可能其實處在稍微更好的位置。但我認為今年的走勢基本上就是我們原先預期的那樣。

We've always thought that acceleration is going to come over time. This is not a slow and steady, that's not the way this place is. But you know, we know it is going to take a little time for the work we're doing to play through, and that's what you see in terms of us holding, which the guidance, which implies Q4 gets better from a year-over-year rate-of-growth perspective.

我們一直認為，加速會隨著時間推進而到來。這裡不是那種慢慢穩穩的地方——不是這種風格。但你知道，我們也知道我們正在做的工作需要一點時間才能反映出來；而你從我們維持指引這件事上看到的就是——該指引意味著，從年對年成長率的角度來看，第四季會比現在更好。

Yeah, your question about making education affordable, I mean this is a very mission-driven company. Hopefully, we have shown that. We will continue being a very mission-driven company. Our mission is to develop the best education in the world and make it universally available, and that is our goal.

是的，關於你問的讓教育可負擔，我的意思是，這是一家非常以使命為導向的公司。希望我們已經展現了這一點。我們會繼續成為一家非常以使命為導向的公司。我們的使命是打造世界上最好的教育，並讓它普遍可得（universally available），這就是我們的目標。

The way we're going to be operating is similar to what we're operating right now, to how we're operating right now, which is we, first and foremost, care about our reach. And every extra active user that we reach means there's one other person that we're teaching, means there's one other person that instead of doom scrolling on social media, is actually learning something that is valuable to them. That's what we're emphasizing.

我們接下來的營運方式會和我們現在的運作方式類似，也就是：我們首先、最重要的是在意我們的觸及範圍。而我們每多觸及一位額外的活躍使用者，就代表我們多教了一個人；也代表多了一個人不再在社群媒體上無止盡地滑動，而是在學習對他們有價值的東西。這就是我們所強調的。

But we also believe that -- it turns out that our mission -- I really do believe that even though we're a very mission-driven company, I think that if we succeed in our mission, that's also aligned with just making this a very large business. The more users we have, in one way or another, the more we'll be able to monetize them.

但我們也相信——事實證明，我們的使命——我真的相信，即使我們是一家非常以使命為導向的公司，我認為如果我們在使命上成功，這也與把它做成一門非常大的生意是一致的。我們的使用者越多，無論以何種方式，我們就越能將他們變現。

Arvind Ramnani, Truist.

Arvind Ramnani，Truist。

Hi, Luis. Hi, Gillian. Hope you're doing well. Just couple of questions. Just with China just continuing to become a kind of important geo for you all, and you all are running OpenAI and Anthropic to run your models or I think mostly OpenAI. Does it create some sort of data residency risk or regulatory risk?

嗨，Luis。嗨，Gillian。希望你們都一切順利。我有幾個問題。隨著中國持續成為你們相當重要的地理市場，而你們使用 OpenAI 和 Anthropic 來運行你們的模型，或我想主要是 OpenAI。這會不會帶來某種資料駐留風險或監管風險？

There's just a lot going on in terms of regulation and sort of protectionist measures and -- or would you just kind of move to a local model in that market? Just how are you thinking about it? Because Luis, I know you're fairly forward-thinking about AI and not reactive. So we just would love to see. Not that you'll make any changes, but how you're thinking about it.

因為在監管、以及某種保護主義措施方面有很多事情正在發生——你們會不會在那個市場改用本地模型？你們是怎麼思考這件事的？因為 Luis，我知道你對 AI 的看法相當前瞻，而不是被動反應。所以我們很想了解。不是說你們一定會做任何改變，但想知道你們的思考方式。

Yeah. So you were right. Thank you for asking about China. China is a very exciting market for us. It keeps growing. It is our second-largest market in terms of daily active users, and we expect it to become our largest market in terms of daily active users in a year or two.

是的。所以你說得沒錯。謝謝你問到中國。中國對我們來說是一個非常令人興奮的市場。它持續成長。以日活躍使用者來看，它是我們第二大的市場，而且我們預期在一到兩年內，它會成為我們日活躍使用者最大的市場。

Also, China monetizes pretty well for us. It monetizes about as well as France. So we're -- it's an exciting, good market for us. When it comes to AI, there's a lot there. The reality is that in China, we simply cannot use the AI models, the kind of US AI models.

另外，中國對我們的變現表現也相當不錯。它的變現能力大約和法國一樣好。所以——這對我們來說是一個令人興奮、而且很好的市場。談到 AI，這裡面有很多面向。現實是，在中國，我們根本不能使用那些 AI 模型，也就是那種美國的 AI 模型。

We have to use local models. That's by law. So we do that in China. All of our usage of AI uses Chinese models. That is just -- you have to do that.

我們必須使用本地模型。這是法律規定。所以我們在中國就是這麼做。我們所有 AI 的使用都採用中國的模型。這就是——你必須這麼做。

In terms of regulatory risk, it's important to mention that, of course, we understand that China poses some regulatory risk. It's kind of outside of our control how they operate the country. But we feel pretty good about what we're doing there in terms of our government relations. So we feel pretty good. But I don't know what the government will decide at any point.

就監管風險而言，重要的是要提到，當然，我們理解中國確實帶來一些監管風險。他們如何治理國家，某種程度上不在我們的控制範圍內。但就我們在那裡的政府關係而言，我們對自己正在做的事情感覺相當不錯。所以我們覺得還不錯。但我不知道政府在任何時點會做出什麼決定。

Perfect. Yeah, and just on this topic. Can you just give us just a rough estimate? I'm not looking for anything precise or whether -- but just rough estimate of what your AI costs are. And is it largely on Anthropic OpenAI, or are they kind of open-weight models?

很好。是的，另外在這個主題上。你能不能給我們一個大概的估算？我不是要精確數字或——但就是大概估算你們的 AI 成本是多少。而且主要是花在 Anthropic、OpenAI 上，還是屬於開放權重模型？

And then just in terms of your cost to revenue, does AI cost you like 1%? Is it 10%? Just directionally, how significant are your AI expenses?

另外就成本對營收的比例來看，AI 成本大概是 1%？還是 10%？方向性來說，你們的 AI 費用有多顯著？

Yeah, our expenses on AI in the cost of goods sold are in the tens of millions of dollars, so they're significant to the cost of goods sold. Hosting is another big cost for us as well, but those are the two biggies going through the cost of goods sold. Inside the business, we also use AI, and that is more closer to the $10 million range internally.

是的，我們在銷貨成本中的 AI 支出是數千萬美元等級，所以對銷貨成本而言是顯著的。託管也是我們另一項很大的成本，但這兩項是走在銷貨成本裡的兩個主要項目。在公司內部，我們也使用 AI，而內部使用的成本更接近 1,000 萬美元的範圍。

Okay, perfect. No, that sounds great. Yeah, I think those are the main questions. I mean Luis, if you have any broader thoughts on just -- there's a lot of debate right now on AI sovereignty, open-weight models or closed-loop models. If you're able to share anything, I'd love to get your high-level view on that.

好的，很好。不，聽起來很棒。是的，我想這些是主要問題。我是說 Luis，如果你對更宏觀的議題有任何想法——現在關於 AI 主權、開放權重模型或封閉式模型有很多討論。如果你能分享一些，我很想聽聽你高層次的看法。

I mean at the highest level, our view inside the company is that it is in our best interest as a company to use open-weight models as much as possible. So if I had a magic wand, I would try to move everything to an open-weight model. It's not always possible because sometimes the frontier models are more advanced. But from a company standpoint, it is just significantly better because it's way cheaper to use open-weight models.

我的意思是，從最高層次來看，我們公司內部的觀點是：作為一家公司，盡可能使用開放權重模型符合我們的最大利益。所以如果我有一根魔法棒，我會嘗試把所有東西都轉到開放權重模型上。但這不一定總是可行，因為有時候最前沿的模型更先進。但從公司角度來看，這就是顯著更好，因為使用開放權重模型便宜得多。

Perfect. Perfect. So would you expect like this -- how we had the hybrid cloud, do you think that's where we end up? Like you have some sort of orchestration where you put some traffic towards the highest quality models versus open-weight. Is that how you expect it to evolve?

很好。很好。所以你會預期像——就像我們以前談混合雲那樣，你覺得最後會走向那種模式嗎？比如你有某種編排機制，把部分流量導向最高品質的模型，另一部分導向開放權重模型。你預期它會這樣演進嗎？

That's probably -- my guess is that most companies that use AI heavily have a portfolio of models that they use, where for some uses, you kind of have to pick this one model that happens to be a proprietary model. But for other things, you try to use the open-weight models. So my sense is most companies will have a portfolio model like that.

那大概——我猜大多數大量使用 AI 的公司，都會有一個他們使用的模型組合；對某些用途，你可能必須選擇某一個剛好是專有模型的模型。但對其他事情，你會盡量使用開放權重模型。所以我的感覺是，多數公司都會有那樣的模型組合。

That's certainly what we have. What I would say is that our expectation is that over the next some amount of time, that portfolio will be weighted a little more towards open-weight models than it is today.

我們確實也是如此。我想說的是，我們的預期是，在接下來一段時間內，那個組合相較於今天會更偏向開放權重模型一些。

I'm showing no further questions. This concludes the Q&A section of the call. I would now like to turn the call back to the host for closing remarks.

我這邊顯示沒有進一步的問題。本次電話會議的問答環節到此結束。我現在想把電話交回主持人做結語。

Thank you, operator. I'd just like to thank everyone for joining us and we look forward to seeing you on the next call.

謝謝，接線員。我也想感謝各位的參與，我們期待在下一次電話會議再見。