Duolingo Inc (DUOL) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

(video playing).

（影片播放）。

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Duolingo's first quarter 2025 earnings webcast. Today after market closed, we released this quarter's shareholder letter, a copy of which you can find on our IR website at investors.duolingo.com.

大家晚上好，歡迎收聽 Duolingo 2025 年第一季收益網路廣播。今天收盤後，我們發布了本季度的股東信，您可以在我們的 IR 網站 investors.duolingo.com 上找到該信的副本。

On today's call, we have Luis von Ahn, our Co-Founder and CEO; and Matt Skaruppa, our CFO. They'll begin with some brief remarks before opening the call to questions. (Event Instructions) And please note this event is being recorded. (Event Instructions)

今天的電話會議由我們的聯合創始人兼首席執行官 Luis von Ahn 主持；以及我們的財務長 Matt Skaruppa。在開始提問之前，他們會先發表一些簡短的演講。（活動說明）請注意，此活動正在被記錄。（活動須知）

Just a reminder, we'll make forward-looking statements regarding future events and financial performance, which are subject to material risks and uncertainties. Some of these risks have been set forth in the risk factors in our filings with the SEC. These forward-looking statements are based on assumptions we believe to be reasonable as of today, and we have no obligation to update these statements as a result of new information or future events.

提醒一下，我們將對未來事件和財務表現做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受重大風險和不確定性的影響。我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中的風險因素已列明其中一些風險。這些前瞻性陳述是基於我們認為截至今天合理的假設，我們沒有義務根據新資訊或未來事件更新這些陳述。

Additionally, we'll present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures on today's call. These non-GAAP measures are not intended to be considered in isolation from, a substitute for, or superior to our GAAP results, and we encourage you to consider all measures when analyzing our performance.

此外，我們將在今天的電話會議上介紹 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。這些非 GAAP 指標並非旨在與我們的 GAAP 結果分離、替代或優於我們的 GAAP 結果，我們鼓勵您在分析我們的績效時考慮所有指標。

And now I will hand it over to Luis.

現在我將把它交給路易斯。

Thank you, Debbie. Normally, we start this call with prepared remarks, which, in this case, probably would have included the term AI like 17 times. But as I'm sure you've read in our shareholder letter, things are going great. So we're going to get right into questions. Shoot.

謝謝你，黛比。通常，我們會以準備好的發言開始這次通話，在這種情況下，其中可能已經包含 17 次“AI”一詞。但我相信您已經在我們的股東信中讀到了，事情進展得很順利。因此我們將直接進入正題。射擊。

All right. Thanks, Luis. Now I'll pass it over to the moderator who will begin the Q&A portion of the call.

好的。謝謝，路易斯。現在我將把話題交給主持人，主持人將開始電話會議的問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Curtis Nagle, Bank of America question.

美國銀行的柯蒂斯‧納格爾提問。

Terrific. Thank, thanks for taking the question. Maybe one first for Matt and then one for Luis. Matt, could you just talk through the cadence of the gross margin for the year, really nice outperformance on some of the Max efficiencies. I'm still expecting, I think we're expecting a 50 bp in 2Q and then ramping up in 2H. I guess why not more of a benefit in the second quarter? And how should we think about kind of run rates going into next year in terms of gross margin?

了不起。謝謝，感謝您提出這個問題。也許先給馬特一份，然後給路易斯一份。馬特，您能否談談今年毛利率的變化節奏，一些最大效率的表現確實非常好。我仍然預計，我認為我們預計第二季的增幅將達到 50 個基點，然後在下半年上升。我想為什麼第二季沒有更多的收益？那麼，從毛利率的角度來看，我們該如何考慮明年的營運率呢？

Thanks, Curtis. I appreciate the question. So we lay out in the shareholder letter, the detailed gross margin guidance. So just to kind of reiterate what we put in there. You're absolutely right. We continue to expect for the full year about a 150 basis point decline year-over-year. We did see Q1 come in better than we expected. We expected about a 300 basis point decline and we saw about a 200 basis point decline.

謝謝，柯蒂斯。我很感謝你提出這個問題。因此，我們在致股東的信中列出了詳細的毛利率指引。只是為了重申一下我們在那裡所提出的內容。你完全正確。我們仍然預計全年將年減約 150 個基點。我們確實看到第一季的表現優於我們的預期。我們預計將下降約 300 個基點，但實際看到的下降約 200 個基點。

For the most part in Q1, Max was on plan in terms of its impact on gross margin, and we saw a slight benefit on ads, which helped. But as we lay out in the shareholder letter, we do expect Q2 to sequentially compared to Q1 decline 50 basis points, and then we'll see gross margin ramp up in Q3 and Q4, such that by the end of the year, we end roughly back to where we started the year at the end of Q4 of last year.

在第一季的大部分時間裡，Max 對毛利率的影響都符合計劃，而且我們看到廣告方面略有收益，這很有幫助。但正如我們在致股東信中所述，我們確實預計第二季度的毛利率將環比第一季下降 50 個基點，然後我們將看到第三季和第四季的毛利率上升，這樣到今年年底，我們的毛利率將大致回到去年第四季末的水平。

Okay. Awesome. That's helpful. And then Luis for you, just maybe expectations in terms of the language modules, chess, music, math, right? Do we still sort of do these large these tools for engagement for streaks, adding value to existing users? Or maybe increasingly, so is potential monetization tools. What are your thoughts there?

好的。驚人的。這很有幫助。然後路易斯，對你來說，也許只是在語言模組、西洋棋、音樂、數學方面的期望，對嗎？我們是否仍會使用這些大型工具來吸引連續玩家，為現有用戶增加價值？或者說，潛在的貨幣化工具也越來越多。您有什麼想法？

Yeah. Thanks for the question, Curtis. So we're very happy with this. I just added chess -- it's not quite yet live in the app, but it's going to be led very soon. I should mention something amazing about the chess is that it really started with a team of two people, neither of whom knew had program, so they were not programmers and they basically made prototypes and did the whole curriculum of chess by just using AI.

是的。謝謝你的提問，柯蒂斯。所以我們對此感到非常高興。我剛剛添加了國際象棋——它還沒有在應用程式中上線，但很快就會上線。我應該提到一些關於國際象棋的令人驚奇的事情，它實際上是由一個由兩個人組成的團隊開始的，他們倆都不知道有程序，所以他們不是程序員，他們基本上製作了原型，並僅使用人工智能完成了國際象棋的整個課程。

Also neither of them knew how to play chess -- and we started that for several months. And eventually, when they had a really good prototype, we had a whole team to professionalize it and put it in the app. So we're very happy with it. This is, at the moment, mainly going to be to increase users who we think there's a huge demand for chest. There's hundreds of millions of people who want to play chess.

而且他們兩個都不懂下棋──而我們才開始下棋幾個月。最終，當他們擁有了真正優秀的原型時，我們便組建了一支完整的團隊來專業化並將其融入應用程式中。所以我們對此非常滿意。目前，這主要是為了增加我們認為對胸部有巨大需求的使用者。有數億人想下棋。

And the same is true for math and music. I mean, they're just -- they're growing really well. We are monetizing all of these subjects, by the way. The way you monetize them is the same way we monetize language learning, which is if you want to turn off ads you can pay to subscribe. So we're monetizing them already. But compared to language learning, they're a lot smaller. But yeah, we're very excited about it.

數學和音樂也是如此。我的意思是，它們——它們長得非常好。順便說一句，我們正在將所有這些主題貨幣化。您將其貨幣化的方式與我們透過語言學習貨幣化的方式相同，也就是說，如果您想關閉廣告，您可以付費訂閱。因此我們已經開始將其貨幣化。但與語言學習相比，它們要小得多。但是是的，我們對此感到非常興奮。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Ralph Schackart, William Blair.

拉爾夫·沙卡特、威廉·布萊爾。

Great. Matt, maybe I'll start with you. Maybe kind of give us a sense of any macro softness you may or may not be saying? I think during the 2022 time frame after going public, you didn't see much there. But just give us a sense there on the Dow is kind of how broad-based was that?

偉大的。馬特，也許我應該從你開始。也許可以讓我們了解一下您可能說或沒說的宏觀軟性？我認為在上市後的 2022 年期間，你不會看到太多變化。但請您讓我們了解道瓊斯指數的廣泛性如何？

And then Luis, just on GenAI, not focused on Max, but obviously, you've been working with AI for a long time. Just give us a sense, when you're testing now and developing products, what does GenAI allow you to do in terms of testing at scale and to develop products at scale? And then how does that sort of inform your road map to really sort of leverage that to create, I guess, more products over time and potentially be able to roll them out faster.

然後路易斯，只談論 GenAI，不關注 Max，但顯然你已經在 AI 領域工作很長時間了。請告訴我們，當您現在測試和開發產品時，GenAI 允許您在大規模測試和大規模開發產品方面做什麼？那麼，這如何為您的路線圖提供信息，以便真正利用它來隨著時間的推移創造更多的產品，並有可能更快地推出它們。

Yeah. Thanks, Ralph. So when it comes to the broader environment, you can see from our Q1 results, which were great and the strength of our guide that we feel confident about the road map for 2025. We have a lot of exciting opportunities ahead of us. And so that's what you see in the guide.

是的。謝謝，拉爾夫。因此，當涉及更廣泛的環境時，您可以從我們第一季的出色業績和指南的力度中看到，我們對 2025 年的路線圖充滿信心。我們面前有很多令人興奮的機會。這就是您在指南中看到的內容。

So far in Q2, we've been monitoring the metrics we always monitor, and we haven't seen any real change in the trends based on any macro environment. So we feel good about that. I'd just remind you also that we are a global business. The majority of our bookings and revenue come from outside the US. And we offer a really attractive, in my view, value to price relationship, our average revenue per user is in the $6 range. So we feel good about it, and that's what you see in the guide row.

到目前為止，在第二季度，我們一直在監測我們一直在監測的指標，我們還沒有看到基於任何宏觀環境的趨勢發生任何真正的變化。因此我們對此感到很高興。我還要提醒您，我們是一家全球性企業。我們的大部分預訂和收入來自美國以外。在我看來，我們提供的價值與價格關係確實很有吸引力，我們的每位用戶平均收入約為 6 美元。因此我們對此感覺良好，這就是您在指南行中看到的內容。

And in terms of GenAI, I mean, in general, GenAI is allowing us -- this is three places where it's helping us. I mean one is data creation. Teaching requires quite a bit of content. It used to be the case that a lot of this content was made by hand with some automation, but a lot of it by hand. By now, we're able to make the content for all of our subjects, mostly close to 100% automatically. So that allows us to just have a lot more content that is made a lot faster and much cheaper. So that's 1 place where it's helping us.

就 GenAI 而言，我的意思是，一般來說，GenAI 允許我們——它在三個地方幫助我們。我的意思是，一個是資料創建。教學需要相當多的內容。過去的情況是，很多內容都是手工製作的，雖然有些自動化，但大部分都是手工製作的。到目前為止，我們能夠自動製作所有科目的內容，大部分接近 100％。這樣，我們就可以製作出更多內容，而且速度更快、成本更低。這是它幫助我們的一個地方。

Another place where it's helping us is just creating new features that were just not possible for like Video Call with Lilly -- that was just impossible to practice conversation with the computer two years ago. And then the last place is it's just helping us with efficiencies everywhere in the company. For example, Chess is a really good example is why I mentioned in the last answer, the fact that two people who were not engineers really were able to get to a pretty far in chess.

它對我們有幫助的另一個地方就是創造了一些在兩年前不可能實現的新功能，例如與 Lilly 進行視訊通話——這在兩年前是不可能實現的。最後一點是，它幫助我們提高公司各方面的效率。例如，國際象棋就是一個很好的例子，這就是為什麼我在上一個答案中提到，兩個不是工程師的人確實能夠在國際象棋中走得相當遠。

I mean they didn't make the production version of chess, but what they made is really, really good prototypes. And so this is really -- this is showing what the future is going to look like. We're going to have a lot of people in the company that are playing around with new subjects or with new ideas. And I think that's going to speed up the development of our features.

我的意思是他們沒有製作國際象棋的生產版本，但他們製作的是非常非常好的原型。所以這確實是——這展示了未來將會是什麼樣子。我們公司裡將會有很多人在嘗試新課題或新想法。我認為這將加速我們功能的發展。

Great. Thanks, Luis. Thanks Matt.

偉大的。謝謝，路易斯。謝謝馬特。

Chris Kuntarich, UBS.

瑞銀的 Chris Kuntarich。

Maybe the first would just be on the Max side of things. Any update on retention trends for Max and just percentage of overall subs? And just how should we be thinking about kind of where Max retention is versus super at this point?

也許第一個只是在 Max 方面。關於 Max 的保留趨勢和整體訂閱者百分比有什麼更新嗎？那麼，我們現在應該如何考慮最大保留率與超級保留率之間的關係呢？

And I guess my second question would really be on the 148 new language courses and kind of pushing on that thread a little bit more here. You said it took 12 years to add the first 100, I guess, is it more -- are we at the point now where we kind of reach saturation here as far as the available courses that you're looking to offer here and it's about pushing deeper into certain markets or is there another 100 courses potentially that we should be looking here that will be driving both -- really driving the funnel here.

我想我的第二個問題其實是關於 148 門新語言課程的，我想在這裡進一步探討這個主題。您說增加前 100 門課程花了 12 年時間，我想，這是否意味著——就您希望在這裡提供的課程而言，我們現在是否已經達到飽和狀態，需要更深入地開拓某些市場，或者是否應該在這裡尋找另外 100 門課程來真正推動這裡的發展。

Yeah. So on the Max retention rates, we feel good about how Max is progressing. It's about 7% of subscribers at quarter end, which is an impressive set of growth and it helped to deliver a really strong Q1 for us, and it's going well. I think on the retention rates, it's kind of as expected. It's early days, but we feel confident that it's going well on the overall retention rates for Max's at this point.

是的。因此，就 Max 的保留率而言，我們對 Max 的進展感到滿意。季度末的訂閱用戶數量約為 7%，這是一個令人印象深刻的成長，它幫助我們實現了非常強勁的第一季業績，而且一切進展順利。我認為就保留率而言，這是符合預期的。雖然現在還處於早期階段，但我們相信 Max 的整體保留率目前表現良好。

Yeah. And in terms of the language courses, we added 148 new language courses. All of this content was done with AI, and it really took us about a year to add these 148 language courses. And like you mentioned, the previous 100-ish courses took us about 12 years to make. So this is an incredible speed up.

是的。在語言課程方面，我們增加了148門新語言課程。所有這些內容都是透過人工智慧完成的，我們確實花了大約一年的時間來添加這 148 門語言課程。正如您所說，之前的 100 多個課程我們花了大約 12 年的時間才完成。這是一個令人難以置信的加速。

Now to clarify what these courses are: these are not new languages. So these are the same languages that we were teaching for other base languages. So for example, we used to -- if you were Portuguese speaker, you couldn't learn Korean. But now you can. So that's the type of thing we're basically filling in all the gaps that we had.

現在要澄清的是這些課程是什麼：這些不是新的語言。所以這些語言和我們教的其他基礎語言是相同的。例如，我們過去常常——如果你是葡萄牙語使用者，你就無法學習韓語。但現在你可以了。所以這就是我們基本上填補所有空白的事情。

At this point, we're teaching all the major languages to the majority of the countries that we serve. So we're very happy with that. We're still going to add other languages likely. And there's demand for that, but there really is diminishing returns. I mean, in total, different languages, we only teach about 40 of them.

目前，我們正在向我們服務的大多數國家教授所有主要語言。所以我們對此感到非常高興。我們可能還會添加其他語言。並且有這樣的需求，但收益確實在遞減。我的意思是，總的來說，我們只教大約 40 種不同的語言。

And these 148 courses mainly pertained to about 8 of our top languages that are -- now we're teaching in the different geographies. So there's not that much in terms of new courses to add, but we are going to continue improving the courses that we have and also getting them to teach through more advanced levels.

這 148 門課程主要涉及我們最熱門的 8 種語言——現在我們在不同的地區進行教學。因此，我們不需要添加太多新課程，但我們將繼續改進現有的課程，並讓它們用於更高級的教學。

Bryan Smilek, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的布萊恩‧史邁利克。

On daily active users, I mean, continue to see such strong and impressive growth rates. I believe last quarter, you had talked about mature regions growing still very strong. So just curious, what are you seeing on the product optimization cycle that's driving better resurrected user growth? Anything that stands out to keep in mind there?

就每日活躍用戶而言，我的意思是，繼續看到如此強勁和令人印象深刻的成長率。我相信上個季度您談到了成熟地區的成長仍然非常強勁。所以只是好奇，您在產品優化週期中看到了什麼，可以推動更好的用戶成長？有什麼需要注意的嗎？

And then secondarily and kind of related as well, more on the English learning side, still under indexing towards English language learning. As you continue to scale course units published, add new content and efficacy over time, how should we think about user growth across English language learning and the opportunity longer term? Thank you.

其次，也有點相關的，更多的是在英語學習方面，仍然在英語語言學習的索引下。隨著您不斷擴大已發布的課程單元，隨著時間的推移添加新內容和功效，我們應該如何看待英語學習的用戶成長和長期機會？謝謝。

Yeah. Thank you, Bryan. In terms of DAUs, it's a similar story to last quarter. I mean we're getting very strong growth. I mean, we just posted a 49% year-over-year growth in DAUs, which to remind you, that is lapping the same quarter, but the year before was doing 60% year-over-year growth. And before that, another 60% year-over-year growth. So it's really growing quite fast.

是的。謝謝你，布萊恩。就 DAU 而言，情況與上一季類似。我的意思是我們正在實現非常強勁的成長。我的意思是，我們剛剛公佈了 DAU 同比增長 49% 的數據，提醒一下，這是與同一季度持平，但前一年的同比增長率為 60%。在此之前，年增 60%。所以它確實成長得相當快。

The growth is from all regions. Of course, some regions are growing faster than others, but really all of them are growing. And the same thing is true as last time, some of our more mature markets are actually growing the fastest. So we're very happy with that. And what that tells us is that we really are not reaching the point of saturation in really any market. And it's because there really are -- the total number of people learning our language in the world is about 2 billion, where we just posted 130 million active users. So there's a lot of room for that.

所有地區均出現成長。當然，有些地區的成長速度比其他地區快，但實際上所有地區都在成長。與上次的情況一樣，我們的一些比較成熟的市場實際上成長最快。所以我們對此感到非常高興。這告訴我們，我們實際上並沒有在任何市場達到飽和點。這是因為，全世界學習我們語言的總人數約為 20 億，而我們剛剛公佈的活躍用戶數為 1.3 億。因此，還有很大的發展空間。

In terms of what drives the growth, it's the same story as has been. Two things drive our growth. One is product improvements and the product improvements basically get improved retention of the product and also get people to tell their friends or word of mouth. And then the other thing that drives the growth is our excellent marketing campaigns.

就推動成長的因素而言，情況與以往相同。有兩件事推動了我們的成長。一是產品改進，產品改進基本上提高了產品的保留率，同時也讓人們告訴他們的朋友或口耳相傳。推動成長的另一個因素是我們出色的行銷活動。

I mean this last quarter you saw that we had this campaign where Duo owl fake his own death. We couldn't -- we didn't know he was going to do that. This is a kind of quirky guy that decides to do this type of stuff. And -- but that campaign, for example, got 1.7 billion impressions, not dollars, 1.7 billion impressions and the cost of that campaign really was essentially nothing. So that's what's generating the growth.

我的意思是，在上個季度，你看到我們開展了一項活動，其中 Duo owl 假裝自己死亡。我們不能——我們不知道他會這麼做。決定要做這種事的人有點古怪。而且 — — 但例如那次活動獲得了 17 億次展示，而不是美元，17 億次展示，而那次活動的成本實際上基本上為零。這就是推動成長的因素。

In terms of English learners, we're very excited by it. We're still under indexed as you rightly said. If you look at language learning as a whole, 80% of the people that are learning a language are learning English. But on Duolingo, only -- it's a little around 50%. That percentage is increasing, which is good -- and because English learners in general, are growing faster than the rest of our growth. So we see a lot of potential there.

對於英語學習者來說，我們對此感到非常興奮。正如您所說，我們仍然處於索引之下。如果從整體上看語言學習，80% 學習語言的人都在學習英語。但在 Duolingo 上，只有 50% 左右。這個比例正在增加，這是件好事——因為總體而言，英語學習者的成長速度比其他族群的成長速度要快。因此，我們看到那裡有很大的潛力。

And just to remind everyone, the reason that English learners are now growing faster is because we've added a lot of content for them, in particular, intermediate and advanced content. And that's really helping us grow. Now one of the things that we've said last time, and we're going to continue saying here is, it's going to take some time for this adoption to happen for English learners because the word got around.

也要提醒大家的是，現在英語學習者進步更快的原因是我們為他們增加了很多內容，特別是中級和高級內容。這確實有助於我們的成長。我們上次說過的一件事，也是我們這次要繼續說的一件事是，英語學習者要接受這個字還需要一些時間，因為這個字已經傳開了。

I mean the main way Duolingo growth is through word of mouth. And the word got around that we were mainly good for beginner English learners. And now that we have content for more intermediate and advanced learners, the word has to get around. We're trying to speed that up with some marketing initiatives. But generally, we expect that most of this is going to be word of mouth.

我的意思是，Duolingo 成長的主要方式是透過口耳相傳。並且有傳言說我們主要適合英語初學者。現在，我們為中級和高級學習者提供了內容，這個詞必須傳播開來。我們正嘗試透過一些行銷措施來加快這一進程。但總體來說，我們預期大部分訊息都會透過口耳相傳的方式傳播。

And so it'll -- in some time, and I don't know what that time frame is, but it's not months, it's probably years. We do expect that English learners are going to hopefully get to the 80%, but it's going to take some time.

所以它會在一段時間內發生，我不知道這個時間範圍是多長，但不是幾個月，可能是幾年。我們確實希望英語學習者能夠達到 80% 的目標，但這需要一些時間。

Awesome. And I guess just one quick follow-up on English learning. Could you share any insights on just overall conversion rates? And I mean, right, like how that would vary versus a Western world user? Anything would be super helpful. Thank you.

驚人的。我想這只是對英語學習的一個快速跟進。您能否分享一些有關整體轉換率的見解？我的意思是，這與西方世界的使用者有何不同？任何事情都會非常有幫助。謝謝。

Yeah. I mean, English learners -- a lot of them are in regions that don't convert very well. Some of them are in regions that convert very well, for example, Japan, Japan converts very well. But if they are in low GDP per capita countries, they don't convert very well. However, we are seeing something really awesome with Duolingo Max -- and it is that they really have -- because Max really helps to try to practice conversation a lot more, they are a lot more interested in it. So we're seeing more adoption of Video Call with Lilly by English learners than non-English learners. And we're also seeing that like we said, 7% of our subscribers are paying for Max.

是的。我的意思是，很多英語學習者都身處在轉換率不太高的地區。其中一些位於轉換率非常好的地區，例如日本，日本的轉換率非常好。但如果這些國家的人均 GDP 較低，那麼轉換率就不會太高。然而，我們在 Duolingo Max 上看到了一些非常棒的東西——而且他們確實做到了——因為 Max 確實幫助人們更多地練習對話，他們對此更感興趣。因此，我們發現使用 Lilly 進行視訊通話的英語學習者比非英語學習者更多。我們還發現，正如我們所說的，7% 的訂閱者正在為 Max 付費。

But actually, if you restrict to English learners that number is actually higher than 7% and non-English learners that's lower than 7%. So the average is 7%, but English learners -- the fraction of subscribers that are English learners that are Max is higher than for non-English learners. So we like that.

但實際上，如果僅限於英語學習者，這個數字實際上高於 7%，而非英語學習者則低於 7%。平均數是 7%，但英語學習者－Max 的英語學習者訂閱者比例高於非英語學習者。所以我們喜歡這樣。

Awesome. Thank you.

驚人的。謝謝。

Justin Patterson, KeyBanc.

賈斯汀·帕特森，KeyBanc。

Great, thank you very much. Great. It looks like cost optimizations are occurring faster than expected. You've got better line of sight on AI cost. How does that change just your desire to make Duo Max more affordable or even just provide more features to some of those English learners.

太好了，非常感謝。偉大的。看起來成本優化正在比預期更快發生。您對 AI 成本有了更好的了解。這如何改變您想要讓 Duo Max 更實惠或甚至只是為一些英語學習者提供更多功能的願望呢？

And then related to that, the 3D Lilly update for Video Call looks pretty interesting. Talk about how you think that's going to influence both engagement with Lilly and conversion rates. Thank you.

與此相關，3D Lilly 的視訊通話更新看起來非常有趣。談談您認為這將如何影響與禮來的互動和轉換率。謝謝。

I can take the first part and you can jump in on the next one. Justin, on the optimization, it's actually, in our opinion, trending as we expected. So there were a little -- there were some smaller optimizations that we were able to kind of do in Q1 that were faster than we expected, but they are pretty small.

我可以先講第一部分，然後你可以直接講下一部分。賈斯汀，關於最佳化，實際上，我們認為趨勢正如我們預期的那樣。因此，我們在第一季進行了一些較小的優化，這些優化比我們預期的要快，但幅度非常小。

In general, the optimization of Video Call in Max is on trend with what we expected on the last call. And that's good news for us because it does lead to margin expansion in the back half of the year like we thought. And we also saw evidence in the first quarter that rates were coming down for those type of API calls. So just in general, we feel confident with our the current course's speed of those optimizations.

總體來說，Max 對視訊通話的優化和我們上次通話的預期是一致的。這對我們來說是個好消息，因為正如我們想像的那樣，它確實會帶來下半年利潤率的擴大。我們還在第一季看到證據表明，此類 API 呼叫的費率正在下降。所以總的來說，我們對目前課程的最佳化速度充滿信心。

Yeah. And related to Max cost, I should say, it is still the case that Max in certain countries like India, India is a good example, is too expensive. We have not lowered the price. Max in India is about USD70 per year. We feel confident that over -- probably in a few months, we'll be able to lower that price because prices are coming down. And at that point, we're going to see more adoption, but it's going to take a little bit of time. So that's Max.

是的。至於 Max 的成本，我應該說，在某些國家，例如印度，Max 仍然太貴了，印度就是一個很好的例子。我們沒有降低價格。印度的最高費用約為每年70美元。我們有信心——可能幾個月後，我們就能降低價格，因為價格正在下降。到那時，我們將看到更多的人採用它，但這需要一點時間。這就是馬克斯。

In terms of 3D Video call, we're super excited about it. It's just -- I mean, if you have actually played with it, for some users already have it, not everybody has it. it's a lot more engaging. Now you can start asking Lilly about her dog, which you can see it right there and everything.

就 3D 視訊通話而言，我們對此感到非常興奮。只是——我的意思是，如果你真的玩過它，你會發現有些用戶已經擁有它了，但並不是每個人都擁有它。它更加吸引人。現在你可以開始向莉莉詢問她的狗的情況了，你可以在那裡看到它的一切。

So it's -- I think that's going to increase engagement. And the good news about engagement increases a number of things. It increases word of mouth of Max itself. So we basically people like you should get Max. I know you're Duolingo you said, but you should get Max because you can talk to Lilly. It also, of course, increases retention -- so it's just generally going to be good. I don't know exactly what the results are going to be of the A/B test. I mean this is an A/B test at the moment, but we're pretty excited about it.

所以——我認為這會增加參與度。關於參與的好消息增加了很多事情。它增加了Max本身的口碑。所以我們基本上像你這樣的人應該得到 Max。你說我知道你是 Duolingo，但你應該找 Max 因為你可以和 Lilly 交談。當然，它也能提高保留率——所以總的來說是件好事。我不知道 A/B 測試的結果到底是什麼。我的意思是，目前這只是一個 A/B 測試，但我們對此感到非常興奮。

Nathan Feather, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的 Nathan Feather。

Its really encouraging results. It's exciting to see the expansion in additional language courses. But given that there is a diminishing returns as that additional languages, can you help us think your relative prioritization list for new content production now between further language courses, more content, new subjects?

這確實是一個令人鼓舞的結果。看到更多語言課程的擴展令人興奮。但是考慮到增加語言帶來的收益遞減，您能否幫助我們思考一下現在在進一步的語言課程、更多的內容和新的主題之間新內容製作的相對優先列表？

Yeah, in terms of relative prioritization. I mean, we're at the moment, of course, language learning is our largest business and it is growing very fast. So the majority of our efforts still go into that. Now in terms of creating content, there -- we may not be adding new languages, but we're always improving the content for the languages that we have and making it more and more advanced.

是的，就相對優先順序而言。我的意思是，目前，語言學習是我們最大的業務，而且發展非常迅速。所以我們大部分的精力仍然投入其中。現在就創建內容而言，我們可能不會添加新的語言，但我們始終在改進現有語言的內容，並使其越來越先進。

And what's nice about this is because we now have this pipeline on AI, we can actually regenerate the content super fast, but in an improved manner. So you'll just see us improve things a lot. And it pays to this. So for example, you'll see us improve our Spanish course, which is one of our largest courses. And people all over the world will be able to learn Spanish faster.

這樣做的好處是，因為我們現在有了這個 AI 管道，我們實際上可以超快地重新生成內容，但方式有所改進。所以你會看到我們取得了很大的進步。這是值得的。例如，你會看到我們改進了西班牙語課程，這是我們最大的課程之一。世界各地的人們將能夠更快地學習西班牙語。

We are, of course, also investing in math and music and chess. They're -- we're spending less effort on that because they're much smaller businesses than language learning. But for example, for math, you'll see us vastly increase the content because of AI within the next few months, it's probably -- the content is probably going to quadruple that we have in math because of AI in, call it, I don't know, a quarter or so.

當然，我們也在數學、音樂和西洋棋方面進行投資。我們在這方面投入的精力較少，因為它們的業務比語言學習業務小得多。但是，例如，對於數學，你會看到我們在接下來的幾個月內因為人工智慧而大幅增加其內容，很可能 - 由於人工智慧，數學內容可能會增加四倍，或者說，大約四分之一。

Very helpful. Thank you.

非常有幫助。謝謝。

Arvind Ramnani, Piper Sandler.

阿爾溫德·拉姆納尼、派珀·桑德勒。

Hi. Hey, thanks Luis, thanks.

你好。嘿，謝謝路易斯，謝謝。

Good background.

很好的背景。

I love it too. Look, I mean, you launched math and music back in 2023; now, you're launching chess. And I'm really trying to better understand your business strategy. I mean I fully appreciate that the investment costs are minimal; even with Matt, I believe it was just a couple of engineers and I appreciate that part of the equation.

我也喜歡它。你看，我的意思是，你在 2023 年推出了數學和音樂；現在，你開始下棋了。我確實想更了解您的商業策略。我的意思是我完全理解投資成本是很小的；即使有馬特，我相信也只是幾個工程師而已，我很欣賞這個等式的一部分。

But also, over the past couple of years, you've insisted that don't look at math and music and/or chess is going to be free. Don't look at it as a monetization level. But there is clearly like a kind of a business strategy for expanding product. I'm just trying to get your understanding to that.

但是，在過去的幾年裡，你一直堅持數學、音樂和/或國際象棋是免費的。不要將其視為貨幣化程度。但顯然這是一種擴大產品的商業策略。我只是想讓你理解這一點。

Yeah. To clarify one thing. All of our new subjects, math, music and chess when it launches, which is going to happen in a few days, they all have monetization. They do make us money. And it's because the same subscription works for everything. And if you're not subscribed and you're doing math, you have to see ads at the end of a math lesson and all the standard things that get you to subscribe, will get you to subscribe. So we do get subscriptions from people who are using math or people who are using music and soon, it will be people who are using chess.

是的。澄清一件事。我們所有的新科目，數學、音樂和國際象棋將在幾天後推出，它們都將貨幣化。他們確實為我們賺錢。這是因為相同的訂閱適用於所有內容。如果您沒有訂閱並且正在做數學題，那麼您必須在數學課結束時看到廣告，所有讓您訂閱的標準內容都會讓您訂閱。因此，我們確實會從使用數學或使用音樂的人那裡獲得訂閱，而且很快，還會有使用國際象棋的人訂閱。

But they're proportional to the number of daily active users that we have in those subjects, which is significantly smaller than language learning. Now they're growing. The good news is these new subjects are growing a lot faster than language learning. And now they have millions of daily active users. So -- there is some monetization there. It's just we're not breaking it out yet.

但它們與這些科目的每日活躍用戶數量成正比，這比語言學習的數量要小得多。現在它們正在成長。好消息是這些新學科的發展速度比語言學習快得多。現在他們每天有數百萬活躍用戶。所以——那裡有一些貨幣化。只是我們還沒有將其打破。

But in general, the strategy is really to become not just a language learning app, but an app that teaches you subjects that take a long time to learn and that -- and these are all going to be subjects that hundreds of millions of people want to learn and that take a long time to learn, and that are also good for the world. We believe that getting better at math, getting better at music, getting better at chess are all things that make people smarter and are good for the world. So that's the strategy at the moment, and we're very excited.

但總的來說，我們的策略不僅僅是成為一款語言學習應用程序，而是一款教你需要很長時間才能學會的科目的應用程序——這些科目都是數億人想要學習的，需要很長時間才能學會的，而且對世界也有好處。我們相信，提升數學水平、提高音樂水平、提高國際象棋水平都會讓人變得更聰明，對世界也有好處。這就是目前的策略，我們非常興奮。

But we've known and you are right, we've been kind of cautioning people. We know that it takes a while to grow each of these subjects. I mean, it took us 10 years to grow language learning to a big scale. So it takes a while to grow these subjects, but we're very happy with the growth so far for them.

但我們知道，而且您說得對，我們一直在警告人們。我們知道，培育每一個科目都需要一段時間。我的意思是，我們花了 10 年的時間將語言學習發展到如此規模。因此，發展這些學科需要一段時間，但我們對目前的發展感到非常滿意。

Perfect. And just a quick follow-up. What's the sort of like a common theme in learners. I mean, I listened to your interview couple of weeks back where you talked about you're looking for large markets and all of that. But is the common thread where like the person who learns math is also learning music or what's the comments there?

完美的。這只是一次快速的跟進。這在學習者中是一個什麼樣的共同主題？我的意思是，幾週前我聽了您的採訪，您在採訪中談到您正在尋找大型市場等等。但是，共同點是，學習數學的人也學習音樂，或者那裡的評論是什麼？

There's definitely overlap in all of our subjects between them. The general common thread is people who want to improve themselves in one way or another and who used to -- probably a lot of these people used to spend all of their time on playing either mobile games or on doom scrolling on social media, and now they're spending some of that time, improving themselves either by getting better at math or music or language or something. That's a common theme. And there's some overlap between them. It's not 100% overlap. There's many users only learn one thing, but quite a few users are learning multiple of our subjects, including multiple of our languages.

我們所有科目之間肯定存在重疊。普遍的共同點是，人們都想以某種方式提高自己，他們過去常常——可能很多人過去常常把所有的時間都花在玩手機遊戲或在社交媒體上瀏覽末日故事上，而現在他們花一些時間來提高自己，要么提高數學、音樂或語言水平，要么提高其他方面的能力。這是一個常見的主題。它們之間有一些重疊。這不是 100% 重疊。有很多用戶只學習一件事，但也有不少用戶學習我們的多個科目，包括多種語言。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Wyatt Swanson, D.A. Davidson.

懷亞特·斯旺森（Wyatt Swanson），地方檢察官戴維森。

Hey guys, just kind of following up on chest here. Could you provide details around time line and plans for rolling out the course to more users devices? What point do you think it will be widely available? And what are your plans around driving engagement and making it well known that you also teach chess?

嘿夥計們，我只是在關注胸部。您能否提供有關向更多用戶設備推出課程的時間表和計劃的詳細資訊？您認為什麼時候它會被廣泛應用？您有什麼計劃來推動參與並讓更多人知道您也教授國際象棋？

And then just looking out a little bit further, how do you expect it to contribute to engagement in revenue 12 to 18 months or even further down the line?

然後稍微展望一下，您預計它將如何在未來 12 到 18 個月甚至更長時間內對收入貢獻做出貢獻？

Yeah. Thanks for the question. Okay. So chess, I literally a few minutes ago, promised the product manager of the chess team that I would not give a specific date, but it really is in the next few weeks. It's like very soon. It will be there. It will first be on iPhones and then soon after, it will be on Android phones. By the end of the year, this will be widely available to everybody.

是的。謝謝你的提問。好的。所以國際象棋，就在幾分鐘前，我向國際象棋團隊的產品經理承諾，我不會給出具體的日期，但確實會在接下來的幾週內。好像很快。它會在那裡。它將首先在 iPhone 上推出，然後不久後將登陸 Android 手機。到今年年底，這項服務將廣泛普及。

In terms of how we're going to get the word across, it's kind of similar to math and music. Most of it is word of mouth, but we're going to speed it up with our marketing. Certainly, you'll probably see a lot of kind of TikTok or Instagram videos of our mascot doing unhinged things related to Chess. So that's going to get the word out.

就我們如何傳達訊息而言，這有點類似於數學和音樂。大部分都是口耳相傳，但我們將透過行銷來加快這一進程。當然，你可能會在 TikTok 或 Instagram 上看到很多我們的吉祥物做出與國際象棋有關的瘋狂事情的影片。這樣就能把消息傳出去了。

We're probably going to -- we're going to test our different -- we're going to point our marketing engine towards this and including also towards math and music. So I think we're going to see quite a bit of growth from this for these new subjects.

我們可能會——我們將測試我們的不同——我們將把我們的行銷引擎指向這一點，也包括數學和音樂。所以我認為我們將會看到這些新學科有相當大的發展。

In terms of the contribution of chess is, it's similar to math and music. There is a business there, as already people are going to be -- as soon as we launch it, people are going to be able to pay for a subscription for chess and that removes the ads and all the things that our subscription does. So there's going to be a contribution there.

就國際象棋的貢獻而言，它與數學和音樂類似。那裡有一項業務，正如人們已經做的那樣——一旦我們推出它，人們將能夠支付國際象棋的訂閱費用，這樣就可以刪除廣告和我們的訂閱所做的一切。所以那裡將會有貢獻。

But it will depend on the daily active users, and like I said in the previous answer, it takes time for daily active users of a given subject to grow from 0. So I don't really know what the contribution is going to be in 12 months. But compared to language learning, is probably going to be small.

但這取決於每日活躍用戶，正如我在前面的回答中所說的那樣，特定主題的每日活躍用戶從 0 成長需要時間。所以我真的不知道 12 個月後的貢獻會是多少。但與語言學習相比，可能要小一些。

Got it. Okay, thank you guys.

知道了。好的，謝謝大家。

Edison Cai, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Edison Cai。

Hi Luis. It's great to see such a strong performance given that it's really early in China right now, but very good performance. And I do have one question marketing and pay and market debt that you're diving into because last quarter, you talked about how your market campaign is shifting from growing the user base into a more like to become -- to let the users know how your in-depth English content is growing.

你好，路易斯。很高興看到如此強勁的表現，因為目前在中國還處於早期階段，但表現非常好。我確實有一個關於行銷、薪酬和市場債務的問題，您正在深入探討，因為上個季度，您談到了您的市場活動如何從擴大用戶群轉變為讓用戶了解您的深入英語內容是如何增長的。

And now you are doing chess content, which I think is another like a given that -- there are already mature provider like service providers like chess.com. So how do you think that your market campaign and user base growing is going to shift from current situation given you're diving into -- diving deeper into the market in both language learning and the new markets like chess play, which is more competitive. So I would like to know more about that.

現在您正在做國際象棋內容，我認為這是另一個既定事實——已經有像 chess.com 這樣的成熟提供者和服務提供者。那麼，鑑於您正在深入研究語言學習市場以及競爭更激烈的國際象棋等新市場，您認為您的市場活動和用戶群成長將如何與當前情況轉變？所以我想了解更多關於這方面的資訊。

Yes. Thanks for the question. Okay. So our marketing -- what's amazing about our marketing is that it's incredibly efficient. I mean most of our marketing efforts are social media efforts either on TikTok or Instagram or different social media sites, including Chinese sites. And we're -- we basically have a really good playbook for doing this type of marketing on social media, where we don't spend very much money.

是的。謝謝你的提問。好的。所以我們的行銷——我們的行銷令人驚訝的是它非常有效率。我的意思是，我們的大部分行銷工作都是在 TikTok 或 Instagram 或不同的社群媒體網站上進行的，包括中國網站。而且我們——我們基本上有一個非常好的劇本，用於在社交媒體上進行這種類型的行銷，而我們不需要花費太多的錢。

The majority of our efforts are going to continue in the same way that they've been so far, which is making content that goes viral. Almost every single day, some content related to Duolingo either made by us or made by our audience goes viral. And by that, I mean, it gets millions of views. That will continue, and we're not going to stop investing in that.

我們的大部分努力仍將以目前的方式繼續進行，即製作能夠迅速傳播的內容。幾乎每天，我們或我們的觀眾製作的一些與 Duolingo 相關的內容都會傳播開來。我的意思是，它獲得了數百萬的觀看次數。這種趨勢將會持續下去，我們也不會停止對此的投資。

Additionally, what I mentioned last quarter is if we are trying to get things like the word out that Duolingo is now good for more advanced English learners, we're probably going to do some things related to that. This includes things like influencers. That also includes things in certain geographies, for example, in Japan, where we ran a TV campaign that actually had a Video Call with Lilly. So you'll see us do stuff like that, but the majority of our efforts will continue being kind of the owl Duo on Hinge things.

此外，我在上個季度提到，如果我們想讓大家知道 Duolingo 現在更適合高級英語學習者，我們可能會做一些與此相關的事情。其中包括有影響力的人。這也包括某些地區的活動，例如在日本，我們進行了一場電視宣傳活動，實際上與禮來公司進行了視訊通話。所以你會看到我們做類似的事情，但我們的大部分努力仍將是 Hinge 上的貓頭鷹二重奏之類的事情。

And when it comes to things like just, probably the owl will do on Hinge things related to Chess. And I think that will get the word out that we teach chess.

當談到諸如此類的事情時，貓頭鷹可能會在 Hinge 上做一些與國際象棋相關的事情。我認為這會讓大家知道我們教授西洋棋。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Alex Sklar, Raymond James.

亞歷克斯·斯克拉、雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Great. Luis, just starting off on packaging across your tiers. You've talked about testing pricing and also potentially moving some certain features across the tiers. What have you kind of learned so far this year from those tests? How are you thinking about -- and any change in terms of new features still to come, including those in the premium version versus wanting to put them in one of the paid plans?

偉大的。路易斯，剛開始跨層包裝。您談到了測試定價以及可能在各個層級之間轉移某些特定功能。今年到目前為止你從這些測驗中學到了什麼？您如何考慮——以及在即將推出的新功能方面有任何變化嗎，包括高級版本中的功能，還是希望將它們放入付費計劃中？

Yeah, great question. I mean with packaging and pricing, it's the same story that has always been, which is we are testing a lot of things, and we continue testing. I mean, for example, we've continued testing pricing in terms of geographically in different countries, we are testing different prices.

是的，很好的問題。我的意思是，對於包裝和定價來說，情況一直都是一樣的，我們正在測試很多東西，我們會繼續測試。我的意思是，例如，我們一直在不同國家測試不同地理位置的定價，我們測試不同的價格。

This last quarter, we actually tested a price increase for new users and in fact, increase the price for Super Duolingo for new users because of that. So you'll see us continue doing that going forward, we're always testing things. We have not moved things between packages. So for example, between tiers at the moment, Max still contains role play and video call and explain my answer. And Super still contains what has been having this whole time. You'll see us change a few things -- I mean, not change, test a few things.

上個季度，我們實際上測試了新用戶的價格上漲，事實上，我們因此提高了 Super Duolingo 的新用戶價格。所以你會看到我們繼續這樣做，我們總是在進行測試。我們沒有在包裹之間移動東西。例如，目前在各個層級之間，Max 仍然包含角色扮演和視訊通話並解釋我的答案。而 Super 仍然包含著一直以來所擁有的東西。您會看到我們改變一些事情——我的意思是，不是改變，而是測試一些事情。

I don't know what we'll end up launching. So far, nothing, no changes have launched. But you'll see us doing that. it is likely that some of the Max features that are cheaper for us to give, we may bring him down to packages, for example, explain my answer is relatively cheap for us to do. That is not the core feature of Max, the core feature of Max's Video Call, but that's a feature that's in Max. We may try it on Super or even free. So we'll try that. But at the moment, nothing has changed.

我不知道我們最終會推出什麼。到目前為止，還沒有任何變化發生。但你會看到我們這樣做。很可能一些對我們來說比較便宜的Max功能，我們可能會把他降到包包裡去，例如解釋一下我的答案對我們來說是比較便宜的。這不是 Max 的核心功能，也不是 Max 視訊通話的核心功能，但這是 Max 的一個功能。我們可能會在 Super 上嘗試它，甚至免費。所以我們會嘗試一下。但目前，一切都沒有改變。

Okay. Great. And Matt, maybe one follow-up for you. You've given some stats on annual and family plan penetration in the past. How does that mix look for your Max space versus the Super base? Any difference in kind of annual or family plan adoption between those tiers?

好的。偉大的。馬特，也許還有一件事想問你。您過去曾提供過一些有關年度和家庭計劃滲透率的統計數據。您的 Max 空間與 Super 基礎空間的混合看起來如何？這些層級的年度計畫或家庭計畫採用類型有何不同？

Yeah, sure. I think that the theory of the case for us is providing the right package to the right user at the right time and servicing that. That's primarily how we drive Max and Super plan adoption. And right now, the mix is different for Max than, I would say, annual or family plan. That will evolve over time, right?

是的，當然。我認為我們的理論是在正確的時間為正確的用戶提供正確的套餐並提供服務。這主要是我們推動 Max 和 Super 計劃的方式。現在，我認為 Max 的組合與年度計劃或家庭計劃有所不同。它會隨著時間而發展，對嗎？

It's still very early days. It's 7% of subs is Max. And so as we move features around and then decide how and when to surface family plan for Max to users, that will evolve, but it's too early to kind of home in on what that's going to look like in the longer term.

現在還處於早期階段。其訂閱量最高為 7%。因此，隨著我們不斷改進功能，並決定如何以及何時向用戶展示 Max 的家庭計劃，它將會不斷發展，但現在就確定長期發展方向還為時過早。

All right, great. Thank you both.

好的，太好了。謝謝你們兩位。

Ryan MacDonald, Needham.

瑞安麥克唐納，尼德姆。

Hi thanks for taking my questions and congrats on a great quarter. Two questions on AI. Luis, first for you. Can you talk about the level of urgency internally in terms of new generative AI features, particularly as we're seeing more funding going into the space for GenAI and language, whether it's Speak or Properly, but then also the announcement that Google has some lightweight GenAI language learning now.

您好，感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀您本季取得了出色的成績。關於人工智慧的兩個問題。路易斯，首先請你發言。您能否談談內部對新生成 AI 功能緊迫性的程度，特別是我們看到越來越多的資金投入 GenAI 和語言領域，無論是 Speak 還是 Properly，而且谷歌還宣布現在有一些輕量級的 GenAI 語言學習。

And then conversely, on the cost side, Matt, there was this e-mail, obviously that you published about internally sort of this new approach, an evaluation of use of AI and as we incrementally hire let's see if we can automate things first. Can you just talk about sort of how quickly that approach can translate to improve the unit economics? And does this change your view on the long-term sort of structural profitability of the business?

相反，在成本方面，馬特，有一封電子郵件，顯然是你發布的關於內部這種新方法、對人工智慧使用情況的評估，隨著我們逐步招聘，讓我們看看是否可以先實現自動化。您能否談談這種方法能夠多快地改善單位經濟效益？這是否會改變您對該業務長期結構盈利能力的看法？

Yes. Thanks for the question. I mean we're -- we believe that AI is really transformative for our business. I think it's probably transformative for a lot of businesses, but we believe AI is very transformative for our business. It helps us teach better. It helps us create content a lot faster. It helps us create content that was just infeasible to do before. I mean a good example is we just released 148 language courses. We wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for AI.

是的。謝謝你的提問。我的意思是，我們相信人工智慧確實能改變我們的業務。我認為它可能會為許多企業帶來變革，但我們相信人工智慧對我們的企業來說具有極大的變革性。它幫助我們更好地教學。它可以幫助我們更快地創建內容。它幫助我們創建以前不可能實現的內容。一個很好的例子就是我們剛剛發布了 148 門語言課程。如果沒有人工智慧，我們就不會做到這一點。

We are really going all in as a company on AI because its technology that particularly applies to us because the main improvement in AI the last couple of years is large language models and language is what we teach. So it particularly applies to us. So you'll see us -- I mean we really are -- a lot of features are being developed that are related to AI. And you'll see us develop the right features for the user. So we're -- we really want to stay ahead with it, and we believe that we're far ahead of everybody else on this.

作為一家公司，我們真的全力投入人工智慧，因為它的技術特別適用於我們，因為過去幾年人工智慧的主要改進是大型語言模型，而語言就是我們所教的。所以它特別適用於我們。所以你會看到我們——我的意思是我們確實——正在開發許多與人工智慧相關的功能。您會看到我們為用戶開發正確的功能。所以我們——我們真的想保持領先，我們相信我們在這方面遠遠領先於其他所有人。

I should mention that in terms of my e-mail to everyone, I did say that we're going to be AI first. We're going to try to automate everything.

我應該提到，就我發給大家的電子郵件而言，我確實說過我們將首先發展人工智慧。我們將嘗試將一切自動化。

In terms of cost, we're not changing, and I'll let Matt talk a little bit about this. We're not changing our estimates because, yes, this is going to save us some cost on things that humans used to do that now AI can do. However, we're going to apply all of that. I mean, many of those same people, but we're going to apply not just with people, but all of that to develop AI features.

在成本方面，我們不會改變，我會讓馬特稍微談談這一點。我們不會改變我們的估計，因為是的，這將為我們節省一些以前由人類做而現在人工智慧可以做的事情的成本。然而，我們將應用所有這些。我的意思是，許多人都是同樣的人，但我們不僅要將其應用於人，還要應用於所有這些人來開發人工智慧功能。

We think this is an amazing opportunity for us. So the cost savings are going to be offset by the fact that we're just investing a lot in making the right features. I don't know if Matt has more to say about that, but that's how we're seeing it.

我們認為這對我們來說是一個絕佳的機會。因此，我們為實現正確的功能而投入的大量資金將會抵消成本節省。我不知道馬特對此是否還有更多要說的，但我們就是這麼認為的。

No. Ryan, just to underline that last point, we have done things because of AI that we wouldn't have been able to do before. So that's not taking the savings to the bottom line. That's investing in the enormous opportunity ahead of us. And that's what we're going to continue to do. I think we, first and foremost, prioritize reinvesting to go tackle all of the opportunities. And that's how we're going to use this.

不。瑞安，我只想強調最後一點，由於人工智慧，我們做到了以前無法做到的事情。所以這並沒有將節省的錢計入底線。這就是對我們面前巨大機會的投資。我們也將繼續這樣做。我認為，我們首先要優先考慮再投資，以抓住所有機會。這就是我們要如何使用它。

Excellent. Thanks again for the color.

出色的。再次感謝這個顏色。

Andrew Boone, Citizens.

安德魯·布恩，公民。

I wanted to ask about subscriber conversion rates. It's been a steady progression up kind of over the last four quarters, call it, 10 basis points a quarter, if you look at kind of trailing 12-month now. Can you speak to the incrementality of Max though as it affects that? Should we expect kind of that step up as you guys do start to unlock maybe what is Max in terms of a lower price or connect that metric to Max and incrementality of that subscription product.

我想問一下訂閱者轉換率。如果你看過去 12 個月的數據，你會發現過去四個季度裡，利率一直穩定上升，每季上升 10 個基點。您能談談 Max 的增量對此有何影響嗎？當你們開始解鎖最低價格時，我們是否應該期待這種進步，或者將該指標與最高價格以及訂閱產品的增量聯繫起來。

And then I wanted to add on to Bryan's question, right? Like just talked about this, but you talked about the unlock of what is an AI engineer that's going to be a mid-level engineer that's coming in the next kind of year. Luis, he dropped out of college, you have a PhD, right? Help us understand your view of the AI software developer. And how do we think about the efficiency of kind of your OpEx and workforce on a go-forward basis?

然後我想補充布萊恩的問題，對嗎？就像剛才談到的，你談到了什麼是人工智慧工程師，也就是明年即將出現的中級工程師。路易斯，他大學輟學了，你有博士學位，對嗎？幫助我們了解您對 AI 軟體開發人員的看法。我們如何看待您的營運支出和勞動力的未來效率？

Yeah, Matt, do you want to take the first part?

是的，馬特，你想參加第一部分嗎？

Do you want to start with the second part first.

您想先從第二部分開始嗎？

Sure. I'm happy to talk about the -- I mean, look, in particular for engineering, AI is getting a lot better. That is just the case. So we're going to see a lot more efficiency from engineers. We're already seeing it.

當然。我很高興談論——我的意思是，特別是在工程領域，人工智慧正在變得越來越好。事實就是如此。因此我們將看到工程師的效率大大提高。我們已經看到了。

In terms of what it's good at and what it's better, I think AI coding is really good at creating something from scratch. It's not as good at taking a large code base, which is what we have on Duolingo, fully understanding it and making modification for it. It's not as good at that, and that's going to take some time to be really good at that.

就其擅長和優於之處而言，我認為 AI 編碼非常擅長從頭開始創造某些東西。它不太擅長獲取大型程式碼庫，而 Duolingo 就是如此，我們無法完全理解它並對其進行修改。它在這方面做得還不夠好，而且要花一些時間才能真正做好。

And so my sense is what's going to happen, I truly do not believe that over the next -- at least the foreseeable future, it's going to be the case that we're not going to need engineers. In fact, if you look all of these companies, even the companies that are developing the AI are hiring engineers and there's a reason for that. I think we're going to need them and we're going to need them in part because they're going to be so much more effective than they are inefficient than they are now. So I think that's what's going to happen. We're just going to see them be a lot more efficient.

所以我的感覺是，我真的不相信在接下來的時間裡——至少在可預見的未來，我們將不再需要工程師。事實上，如果你看看所有這些公司，你會發現即使是開發人工智慧的公司也在招募工程師，這是有原因的。我認為我們將會需要它們，而且我們將會需要它們，部分原因是它們將會比現在更有效，更有效率。所以我認為這就是即將發生的事情。我們只是會看到它們變得更有效率。

Another thing that is really exciting is that now also non-engineers can do stuff, maybe not production code, but just kind of play around with things. One of our goals internally at the companies that 100% of our employees, and I'm not just talking about engineers, really 100% of our employees will have coded something with AI. We want everybody here to know how to automate things and I think just the whole workforce is going to get a lot more efficient because of that.

另一件真正令人興奮的事情是，現在非工程師也可以做一些事情，也許不是生產程式碼，而只是玩玩而已。我們公司內部的目標之一是，我們 100% 的員工（我指的不僅僅是工程師），實際上 100% 的員工都會使用 AI 編寫一些程式碼。我們希望這裡的每個人都知道如何自動化，我認為整個勞動力隊伍將因此變得更有效率。

Andrew, in that context, what was your first part of your question?

安德魯，在這種情況下，你的問題的第一部分是什麼？

So I want to focus on the incrementality of Max, right? So if I think about the conversion rate.

所以我想關注 Max 的增量，對嗎？所以如果我考慮轉換率。

Sorry, I was thinking about --

抱歉，我在想--

So Matt was worried that he's going to have to white code something himself.

因此，馬特擔心他必須自己寫一些白色程式碼。

Oh, I love white coding. I do it in most days. So when we think about the incrementality, Andrew, when we run our A/B tests for Max, again, we are not optimizing for -- in the very specific sense, we're not optimizing for a Max subscriber or an ARPU or this or that. We are optimizing for platform LTV.

哦，我喜歡白色編碼。我大多時候都會這麼做。因此，當我們考慮增量時，安德魯，當我們為 Max 運行 A/B 測試時，我們並沒有針對 - 從非常具體的意義上進行優化，我們並沒有針對 Max 用戶或 ARPU 或這個或那個進行優化。我們正在針對平台 LTV 進行最佳化。

And so when we run our A/B tests -- we have to take into account are these Max incremental or not and figuring out the overall impact on platform LTV, and that's why we launched Max because we ran enough of the experiment to figure out that they were incremental. There were enough incrementality to it that it was platform, LTV positive. And we still think that's true. And in fact, we think it will become more true over time.

因此，當我們執行 A/B 測試時，我們必須考慮這些 Max 是否是增量的，並確定對平台 LTV 的整體影響，這就是我們推出 Max 的原因，因為我們進行了足夠的實驗來確定它們是增量的。它具有足夠的增量，是一個平台，LTV 為正。我們仍然認為這是事實。事實上，我們認為隨著時間的推移，它將變得更加真實。

And so that's really -- my answer to your question is that, again, we are not trying to drive a max penetration rate. We're not trying to drive a subscriber penetration rate. We are trying to drive platform LTV higher by driving mix shift to higher LTV plans. That's Max.

所以這真的是——我對你的問題的回答是，我們並不是試圖追求最大滲透率。我們並不是想提高用戶滲透率。我們正嘗試透過推動混合轉向更高 LTV 計劃來提高平台 LTV。那是馬克斯。

And we see also there's a lot of upgrades. Part of the Q1 outperformance was driven by the fact that Super subscribers were converting up to Max subscribers. And that's what I said to the answer to another question, which is showing our current users, free and paid, the right plan at the right time to get to the right LTV. So we feel really good about the incrementality and the overall platform LTV increase we're seeing from Max.

我們還看到有很多升級。第一季業績優異的部分原因是超級訂閱用戶正在轉變為最大訂閱用戶。這就是我對另一個問題的回答，即在正確的時間向我們當前的免費和付費用戶展示正確的計劃，以獲得正確的 LTV。因此，我們對 Max 的增量和整體平台 LTV 的成長感到非常滿意。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Mark Mahaney, Evercore ISI.

馬克‧馬哈尼 (Mark Mahaney)，Evercore ISI。

I may have missed this, but I know you disclosed the Max penetration, I guess, at 7%. Did you provide an update on math and music adoption?

我可能錯過了這一點，但我知道你披露的最大滲透率大概是 7%。您是否提供了有關數學和音樂採用的最新資訊？

And then -- you talked a little bit, Luis, I think about pricing for Super and I think your logic is kind of -- I don't think you've changed pricing in Super in quite some time. And as you improve the product and you prove me the functionality, make it better and better than you warrant -- you create greater value, so you can potentially ask people to pay more for it. So it's a long way of answering, where are you -- are you thinking about raising prices kind of across the board on Super? And what would be the key factors that would make you decide to do that now versus never doing it or doing it next year? Thank you.

然後——路易斯，您談了一點，我考慮了 Super 的定價，我認為您的邏輯是——我認為您很長時間沒有改變 Super 的定價了。隨著您改進產品並向我證明其功能，使其越來越好，超出您的預期——您創造了更大的價值，因此您可能會要求人們為此支付更多費用。所以這個問題的答案很長，你現在在想什麼——你是否考慮全面提高 Super 的價格？那麼，哪些關鍵因素會讓您決定現在就做這件事，而不是不做或明年再做？謝謝。

Thank you, Mark. In terms of adoption for math and music, there's no update from last time that we talked about it. I mean, which we said we had about 3 million daily active users learning either math or music. It's higher now. It's growing. And math and music are growing faster than language learning. But compared to language learning it's too small.

謝謝你，馬克。關於數學和音樂的採用，自上次我們討論以來沒有任何進展。我的意思是，我們說過每天大約有 300 萬活躍用戶學習數學或音樂。現在更高了。它正在成長。數學和音樂的發展速度比語言學習更快。但與語言學習相比，它太小了。

And now in terms of prices, where we're just always testing different things. So at the moment, we're testing prices in different countries and everything. My sense is there will be increases, but I don't know what the AB test will tell us. And generally, we're just going to be data driven on this.

現在就價格而言，我們總是在測試不同的東西。因此目前我們正在測試不同國家的價格等等。我的感覺是會增加，但我不知道 AB 測試會告訴我們什麼。整體來說，我們只是以數據為驅動。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John Colantuoni, Jefferies.

傑富瑞的約翰·科蘭圖尼。

Great, thanks for taking my questions. First, I wanted to come back to the topic of incrementality of Max. Can you give us a sense for what portion of recent Max subscribers are new to Duolingo -- and what portion are intermediate English learners -- just to give us a sense for that incrementality.

太好了，感謝您回答我的問題。首先，我想回到 Max 的增量性這個主題。您能否告訴我們，最近的 Max 訂閱用戶中有多少是 Duolingo 的新用戶，又有多少是中級英語學習者，以便讓我們了解一下這種增量。

And second, turning to gross margins for Max, you'd originally characterized the subscription tier is dilutive to gross margin but accretive to gross profit dollars. Has that changed as more cost-effective AI models have been released since you first made those comments? Thanks.

其次，談到 Max 的毛利率，您最初認為訂閱層會稀釋毛利率，但會增加毛利。自從您首次發表這些評論以來，隨著更具成本效益的人工智慧模型的發布，情況是否有所改變？謝謝。

Yes. So we're seeing, like I mentioned to the to Andrew, we're seeing good incrementality. We like the increase in platform LTV for Max. A lot of that comes from the fact that a lot of new to the platform or new to paid subscribers are choosing Max for the first time. but we're also seeing a relatively high proportion of folks upgrading into Max. So of total Max subscribers, a good chunk of those are coming from folks who currently are paying us and then start paying us more. So in general, the bookings and incrementality of Max is attractive, and we like how that's trending.

是的。因此，正如我向安德魯提到的那樣，我們看到了良好的增量。我們喜歡 Max 平台 LTV 的增加。這在很大程度上是因為許多新加入該平台或新付費訂閱的用戶都是第一次選擇 Max。但我們也看到有相對較高比例的人升級到 Max。因此，在 Max 的總訂閱用戶中，有很大一部分來自目前已向我們付費然後開始向我們支付更多費用的用戶。因此，總體而言，Max 的預訂量和增量很有吸引力，我們喜歡這種趨勢。

In terms of the gross margin for Max, nothing that you mentioned has changed. It's still the same lower gross margin percent higher gross profit dollars. That will change over time as two things happen. One, as the price of the generator that I used for Video Call, for example, comes down. And we saw it in Q1, new models released with lower pricing. And then we're also going to run optimizations in the back half of the year.

就 Max 的毛利率而言，您提到的一切都沒有改變。毛利率較低但毛利較高，但金額仍相同。隨著兩件事的發生，這種情況將隨著時間而改變。一是，例如我用於視訊通話的發電機的價格下降了。我們在第一季就看到了這種情況，新車型的發布價格更低。然後我們還將在下半年進行優化。

So we would expect the gross margin of Max to increase. But again, the goal of Max is right now to drive incremental subscriptions and bookings and LTV and still make a really attractive gross profit dollar return. We are on track, like we mentioned on the last call, to do that better and better throughout the course of the year.

因此我們預計 Max 的毛利率將會上升。但同樣，Max 目前的目標是推動增量訂閱、預訂和 LTV，同時仍獲得真正有吸引力的毛利回報。正如我們在上次電話會議上提到的那樣，我們正在按計劃在今年內做得越來越好。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Ross Sandler, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的羅斯桑德勒。

Hey guys. I wanted to ask a question sort of for but maybe for Luis because we might need a PhD to answer this. But yesterday, Apple was finally dealt a fairly definitive blow on the injunction with EPIC around like high-quality developers like Fortnite or Duolingo redirecting users to pay for subscriptions off the app store billing. And it seems like you won't be discriminated against if you do that now.

嘿，大家好。我想問一個問題，也許是針對路易斯，因為我們可能需要博士學位來回答這個問題。但昨天，蘋果終於對 EPIC 的禁令造成了相當明確的打擊，該禁令禁止 Fortnite 或 Duolingo 等優質開發商將用戶引導至應用商店賬單之外支付訂閱費用。而且看起來如果你現在這樣做就不會受到歧視。

So I know 60% of bookings comes from in-app payments, I think, is what it says in your filings. So Luis, I guess, have you guys looked at testing the flow of directing people to the web? And Matt, what percent of COGS does this represent? And kind of where do you guys see this going? Is this an opportunity to drive a little bit of leverage?

所以我知道 60% 的預訂來自應用程式內支付，我想這就是您的文件中所說的。那麼路易斯，我想，你們有沒有研究過測試引導人們存取網路的流程？那麼 Matt，這佔 COGS 的百分比是多少？你們覺得這會有什麼結果呢？這是一個發揮一點槓桿作用的機會嗎？

Yeah. I mean, first of all, this ruling is brand new. Obviously, we saw it. The app stores, both Apple and Google have been great partners to us. One of the things that they really help with is just ease of payment, I mean people's credit card is already in there, and it's usually just kind of like a double click that you have to do and you pay. So that's great, and that has really helped us.

是的。我的意思是，首先，這項裁決是全新的。顯然，我們看到了它。蘋果和谷歌的應用程式商店一直是我們優秀的合作夥伴。它們真正提供的幫助之一就是方便付款，我的意思是人們的信用卡已經存在其中，通常只需雙擊即可付款。這太棒了，這確實對我們有幫助。

My sense is that if we were to try to send people to the web, we wouldn't have to pay Apple or Google, but we would see slightly fewer people actually converting because there's more friction. We're obviously going to test something here, given the ruling. We're obviously going to test something, and we'll see what happens. But at the moment, there's no -- I can't give you results. It's hard to know exactly how much this will help. It may help, but it's hard to know by how much.

我的感覺是，如果我們嘗試將人們引導到網路上，我們就不必向蘋果或谷歌付費，但我們會看到實際轉換的人數會略有減少，因為有更多的摩擦。根據裁決，我們顯然要在這裡進行一些測試。我們顯然要測試一些東西，然後看看會發生什麼。但目前，還沒有——我無法給你結果。很難確切知道這到底有多大幫助。它可能會有幫助，但很難知道有多大幫助。

Yeah. And then on the gross margin on the COGS side, Ross, I mean, it's the majority, well over a majority of our COGS are payments to payment providers. And so to the extent that you would take a chunk out of those, it would be definitely accretive to gross margins. But as Luis said, it's early days for us. And we're going to run A/B test and Green Machine any change we make.

是的。然後，關於 COGS 方面的毛利率，羅斯，我的意思是，我們的 COGS 中絕大部分，甚至超過絕大部分都是支付給支付提供者的。因此，只要你能從中抽取一部分，毛利率肯定會增加。但正如路易斯所說，對我們來說還為時過早。我們將對所做的任何更改執行 A/B 測試和 Green Machine 測試。

So it would happen over time. And we would just have to wait and see. It certainly seems like it's potential optionality. But again, it's not something that we run experiments on given the recency of the news.

所以它會隨著時間的推移而發生。我們只需拭目以待。它確實看起來是一種潛在的可選性。但鑑於新聞的時效性，我們不會對此進行實驗。

We would be fullish not to test this.

我們最好不要測試這一點。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Shweta Khajuria, Wolf Research.

Shweta Khajuria，Wolf Research。

Well, Luis, I have one for you. How do you -- what is your vision for the video call feature as it evolves over the next one, two, three years, what are you working towards? What's a good not end state, but close to an end state solution look like?

好吧，路易斯，我有一個給你。您對視訊通話功能在未來一、二、三年的發展有何展望？您致力於實現什麼目標？一個好但接近最終狀態的解決方案是什麼樣的？

Yeah. I mean for vehicle, the main thing we want is to be able to get you to practice conversation. That's a very important part of language learning. And so the more time we get people to spend on practicing conversation, the better they'll get at the language that they're learning. We know that. So what we want to do is just get people to spend more time on it. How do we do that by making it a lot more engaging and by making it a lot snappier.

是的。我的意思是，對於車輛來說，我們最想要的是能夠讓你練習對話。這是語言學習中非常重要的一部分。因此，我們讓人們花在練習會話上的時間越多，他們所學的語言程度就越高。我們知道這一點。所以我們想做的就是讓人們花更多的時間在這上面。我們如何做到這一點，讓它變得更具吸引力，並且更快。

So for example, right now, there's still a little bit of latency between when you say something and when Lilly responds, we need to decrease that. It is still the case that -- sometimes cuts you off a little too soon. We need to get better at -- she needs to get better at knowing when the conversation has faded out. Humans actually really good at basically saying, I now know you're not so interested in talking to me, so I'm just going to leave, humans are very good at that. Lilly is not very good at that. So there's that type of stuff we got to get better at.

例如，現在，在您說話和莉莉回應之間仍然存在一些延遲，我們需要減少這種延遲。情況仍然是這樣的——有時會過早地打斷你。我們需要做得更好——她需要更好地知道什麼時候談話已經結束。人類其實非常擅長說，我現在知道你對和我說話不太感興趣，所以我要離開了，人類非常擅長這一點。莉莉在這方面不太擅長。所以我們必須在這方面做得更好。

And then we're going to have a whole world for her where she's going to be able to change her background immediately and start pretending that she's like your taxi driver or something. So we're really the idea is to practice as much language as possible and to increase engagement. And the more we increase the engagement, the more people will tell their friends that not only to use Duolingo, but if they are a Duolingo user, they should get to Duolingo Max to be able to practice with Lilly.

然後我們將為她創造一個完整的世界，在那裡她可以立即改變她的背景並開始假裝她是你的計程車司機或類似的人。所以我們真正的想法是盡可能多地練習語言並增加參與度。而且，我們參與度越高，就會有越多的人告訴他們的朋友，他們不僅要使用 Duolingo，而且如果他們是 Duolingo 用戶，他們還應該使用 Duolingo Max 來與 Lilly 練習。

Okay. Thanks, Louis.

好的。謝謝，路易斯。

I'm showing no further questions. This concludes the question-and-answer session of the call. I would now like to turn the call back to the host for closing remarks.

我沒有其他問題。本次電話問答環節到此結束。現在我想請主持人致結束語。

Just want to say thank you. Thank you for the great questions. But more importantly, thank you to our excellent Duolingo employees for yet another great quarter. The team is firing on all cylinders. So thank you, and thank you, everybody.

我只想說聲謝謝。感謝您提出這些精彩的問題。但更重要的是，感謝我們優秀的 Duolingo 員工，他們又帶來了一個出色的季度。該團隊正全力以赴。所以，謝謝大家，謝謝大家。