Duolingo Inc (DUOL) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to Duolingo's fourth quarter and full-year 2024 earnings webcast. Today after market closed, we released this quarter's shareholder letter, a copy of which you can find on our IR website at investors.duolingo.com. On today's call, we have Luis von Ahn, our Co-Founder and CEO; and Matt Skaruppa, our CFO. They'll begin with some brief remarks before opening the call to questions. Analysts can ask a question by using the raise hand feature. And please note that this event is being recorded and all attendees are in a listen-only mode.

大家晚上好，歡迎收聽 Duolingo 2024 年第四季和全年收益網路直播。今天市場收盤後，我們發布了本季度的股東信，您可以在我們的 IR 網站 investors.duolingo.com 上找到該信的副本。今天的電話會議由我們的聯合創始人兼首席執行官 Luis von Ahn 主持；以及我們的財務長 Matt Skaruppa。在開始提問之前，他們會先發表一些簡短的演講。分析師可以使用舉手功能來提出問題。請注意，此活動正在錄製，所有參與者都處於只聽模式。

Just a reminder that we'll make forward-looking statements regarding future events and financial performance, which are subject to material risks and uncertainties. Some of these risks have been set forth in the risk factors in our filings with the SEC. The forward-looking statements are based on assumptions that we believe to be reasonable as of today, and we have no obligation to update these statements as a result of new information or future events.

需要提醒的是，我們將對未來事件和財務表現做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述將受到重大風險和不確定性的影響。我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中的風險因素已列明其中一些風險。前瞻性陳述是基於我們認為截至今天為止合理的假設，我們沒有義務根據新資訊或未來事件更新這些陳述。

Additionally, we'll present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures on today's call. These GAAP measures are not intended to be considered in isolation from, a substitute for or superior to our GAAP results. And we encourage you to consider all measures when analyzing our performance.

此外，我們將在今天的電話會議上介紹 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標。這些 GAAP 指標並非旨在與我們的 GAAP 結果隔離、替代或優於我們的 GAAP 結果。我們鼓勵您在分析我們的表現時考慮所有措施。

And now I'll turn it over to Luis.

現在我將把發言權交給路易斯。

Thank you, Debbie, and welcome, everyone. Look, we had a wonderful 2024, and our results show it. But before I get to the details, I wanted to remind you all of the broader context. Since our IPO, which was 3.5 years ago, we've added 30 million daily active users and over 80 million monthly active users. We've nearly tripled bookings, and we've gone from breakeven to a 25.7% adjusted EBITDA margin in 2024.

謝謝你，黛比，歡迎大家。看，我們度過了美好的 2024 年，我們的成果證明了這一點。但在講細節之前，我想提醒大家注意更廣泛的背景。自三年半前首次公開募股以來，我們已增加了 3,000 萬每日活躍用戶和超過 8,000 萬每月活躍用戶。我們的預訂量幾乎增加了兩倍，並且從盈虧平衡提升到了 2024 年 25.7% 的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率。

All of this shows the power of our approach. We experiment relentlessly to improve user experience and monetization. Through gamification, social features, and our social-first marketing, we scaled our reach, converted more free users into subscribers, improved learning outcomes, and maintained strong profitability.

所有這些都證明了我們的方法的力量。我們堅持不懈地嘗試改善用戶體驗和貨幣化。透過遊戲化、社交功能和社交優先行銷，我們擴大了覆蓋範圍，將更多免費用戶轉化為訂閱者，改善了學習成果，並保持了強勁的盈利能力。

And in 2024, we ended the year with an outstanding record quarter. Daily active users hit 40 million, growing 51% year over year. We added more new subscribers than ever before and delivered our highest quarterly bookings, revenue and adjusted EBITDA. Our Q4 outperformance was largely driven by stronger-than-expected Duolingo Max subscriptions, including upgrades from current super subscribers and by continued momentum in our Family Plan, particularly during the first few days of our New Year's promotion.

2024 年，我們以出色的創紀錄季度結束了這一年。日活躍用戶達4000萬，較去年成長51%。我們新增了比以往更多的新訂戶，並實現了最高的季度預訂量、收入和調整後 EBITDA。我們第四季的出色表現主要得益於 Duolingo Max 訂閱量超出預期，包括現有超級訂閱者的升級，以及家庭計劃的持續發展勢頭，尤其是在新年促銷活動的頭幾天。

I'm especially excited about the traction we're seeing with Duolingo Max. Since launching Video Call, our GenAI-powered conversation feature, user engagement has grown meaningfully. Max is now available to the majority of our DAUs and represents about 5% of total subscribers. We're still very early in driving Max monetization and believe there is a lot of room to grow.

我對 Duolingo Max 所取得的進展感到特別興奮。自從推出 GenAI 支援的電話功能視訊通話以來，用戶參與度顯著提升。Max 現已對我們大多數的 DAU 開放，約佔總訂閱用戶的 5%。我們在推動 Max 貨幣化方面仍處於早期階段，並相信還有很大的成長空間。

And like I said, our Family Plan is also delivering strong results. It now makes up 23% of total subscribers and continues to show higher retention and LTV than individual plans.

正如我所說，我們的家庭計畫也取得了顯著的成果。現在它佔總訂閱用戶的 23%，並且繼續顯示比單一方案更高的保留率和 LTV。

This year, we have three priorities. First, we'll continue to drive subscription bookings by growing users, improving subscriber conversion and promoting Duolingo Max to more learners around the world. We'll do this by running hundreds of experiments each quarter, and I feel very good about how quickly we are moving.

今年我們有三個重點。首先，我們將繼續透過增加用戶、提高訂閱者轉換率以及向全球更多學習者推廣 Duolingo Max 來推動訂閱預訂量。我們將透過每季進行數百次實驗來實現這一目標，我對我們的進展感到非常滿意。

Second, we will leverage generative AI to improve the Video Call experience, which I'll describe it more in a moment. We'll also use GenAI to scale content across our language, math and music courses even faster. Finally, we'll remain disciplined with our investments, balancing strong top-line growth with measured progress toward our long-term profitability targets.

其次，我們將利用生成式人工智慧來改善視訊通話體驗，稍後我會對其進行更詳細的描述。我們還將使用 GenAI 更快地擴展語言、數學和音樂課程的內容。最後，我們將繼續嚴格控制投資，在強勁的營收成長與實現長期獲利目標的穩定進展之間取得平衡。

I want to go into a little more detail on AI and scaling our content. Duolingo Max is a key priority for us. Users are engaging more with Video Call, and we'll work to make it an even better conversation experience. We believe Video Call will help us teach better, especially for our more advanced learners. Most of our AI costs are tied to Video Call, and they scale based on Max subscriber growth. We're prioritizing using the latest AI models to deliver a high-quality experience. What that means is that we're not concentrating on cost optimization right now, even though we're confident these costs will come down over time.

我想更詳細地談談人工智慧和擴展我們的內容。Duolingo Max 對我們來說是重中之重。用戶對視訊通話的參與度越來越高，我們將努力使其成為更好的對話體驗。我們相信視訊通話將幫助我們更好地教學，特別是對於更高級的學習者。我們的大部分 AI 成本都與視訊通話相關，並且根據最大用戶成長進行擴展。我們優先使用最新的 AI 模型來提供高品質的體驗。這意味著我們現在不專注於成本優化，儘管我們相信這些成本會隨著時間的推移而下降。

AI and automation tools are also allowing us to expand content and courses faster than ever before. We believe this will help us reach more learners globally. This includes also scaling our courses for Math and Music, which are showing strong early adoption. Today, these subjects have a combined 3 million DAUs, and we see a lot of room to grow, though as I've said before, this will take time.

人工智慧和自動化工具也使我們能夠比以往更快地擴展內容和課程。我們相信這將幫助我們接觸到全球更多的學習者。這也包括擴展我們的數學和音樂課程，這些課程在早期就表現出強烈的採用率。如今，這些主題的日活躍用戶總數已達 300 萬，而且我們看到了很大的成長空間，儘管我之前說過，這需要時間。

The market opportunity in both language learning and other subjects remains substantial, and we're making strategic investments now in order to fuel growth for years to come. While this means a more moderate pace of profit growth compared to the exceptional levels of the past two years, we're still delivering margin expansion, just with an eye on building something even bigger.

語言學習和其他學科的市場機會仍然很大，我們現在正在進行策略性投資，以推動未來幾年的成長。儘管與過去兩年的卓越水平相比，這意味著利潤成長速度更加溫和，但我們仍在實現利潤率擴張，只是著眼於打造更大的目標。

And with that, I will turn it over to Mr. Matt Skaruppa to walk through the financials of our outlook for 2025.

接下來，我將把話題交給馬特·斯卡魯帕先生，讓他介紹一下我們對 2025 年財務狀況的展望。

Thanks, Luis, and good evening, everyone. As Luis mentioned, we closed out 2024 with a record quarter, capping off another exceptional year for Duolingo. In Q4, we grew total bookings by 42% year over year. Revenue increased 39% year over year, and we expanded our full-year adjusted EBITDA margin by about 8 points. These results reflect the strength of our business model and our execution fueled by strong Duolingo Max adoption and demand for our Family Plan.

謝謝，路易斯，大家晚上好。正如路易斯所說，我們以創紀錄的季度結束了 2024 年，為 Duolingo 又一個非凡的一年畫上了句號。第四季度，我們的總預訂量年增了 42%。營收年增 39%，全年調整後 EBITDA 利潤率提高約 8 個百分點。這些結果反映了我們商業模式和執行力的強勁增長，這得益於 Duolingo Max 的廣泛採用和家庭計劃的需求。

We feel great about our momentum going into 2025. Now to our guidance. Our full-year guidance has bookings growing 25% year over year at the midpoint or 27% on a constant currency basis. This growth will be driven primarily by subscription bookings, which we expect to grow around 31%. Our guidance puts us on track to surpass $1 billion in bookings this year.

我們對於邁向 2025 年的勢頭感到非常高興。現在開始我們的指導。我們對全年訂單量的預期是，以中位數計算，年增 25%，以固定匯率計算，成長 27%。這一成長主要受訂閱預訂量的推動，我們預計訂閱預訂量將成長 31% 左右。我們的預期是，今年的預訂額將超過 10 億美元。

For Q1, we expect bookings to grow approximately 28% year over year or 32% in constant currency, primarily due to continued strength in subscription bookings that are projected to grow about 35% year over year. This bookings guide is supported by continued strength in our DAU growth, which we expect to be in the mid-40s for Q1.

對於第一季度，我們預計預訂量將年增約 28%，或以固定匯率計算成長 32%，主要歸因於訂閱預訂量持續強勁，預計年增約 35%。這項預訂指南受到我們持續強勁的 DAU 成長的支持，我們預計第一季的 DAU 將達到 45% 左右。

Our guidance assumes prevailing foreign exchange rates. And as a reminder, over half of our bookings come from outside the US. So every 2% increase or decrease in the value of the dollar versus our basket of currencies has about a $10 million headwind or tailwind, respectively, on full year total bookings.

我們的指導假設了現行的外匯匯率。提醒一下，我們一半以上的預訂來自美國以外。因此，美元兌一籃子貨幣的價值每增加或減少 2%，就會對全年總預訂量造成約 1,000 萬美元的不利或有利影響。

Our bookings guide includes Max bookings, and I want to remind you all of Max's impact on gross margin. Max incurs marginal AI costs to drive its features like Video Call, and its higher pricing more than offsets these costs, driving increased lifetime value and gross profit, adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow dollars but a lower margin percentage compared to Super.

我們的預訂指南包括 Max 預訂量，我想提醒大家 Max 對毛利率的影響。Max 為推動視訊通話等功能而產生邊際 AI 成本，其較高的定價超過了這些成本，從而推動了生命週期價值和毛利、調整後 EBITDA 和自由現金流的增加，但與 Super 相比，利潤率百分比較低。

In 2025, we expect a temporary 170 basis point year over year impact on gross margin, primarily due to Max. In the first half of the year, there will be roughly a 300 basis point year-over-year impact as we prioritize rapid product innovation to drive Max adoption. We expect margins to improve in the second half of the year as we work to improve AI costs.

到 2025 年，我們預計毛利率將暫時年減 170 個基點，這主要歸因於 Max。由於我們優先考慮快速產品創新以推動 Max 的採用，因此今年上半年的影響將比去年同期增加約 300 個基點。隨著我們努力降低人工智慧成本，我們預計下半年利潤率將會提高。

As we scale, we remain committed to delivering both growth and profitability, and as we discussed, this year will reflect a more moderate pace of margin expansion following two years of exceptional gains. For 2025, we expect to expand our adjusted EBITDA margin by nearly 200 basis points to 27.5% as we continue to gain leverage across all categories of OpEx. And we expect our incremental margin to be between 30% and 35% for the year.

隨著我們規模的擴大，我們仍然致力於實現成長和獲利，正如我們所討論的，在經歷了兩年的卓越成長之後，今年的利潤率成長速度將更為溫和。到 2025 年，隨著我們在所有營運支出類別中繼續獲得槓桿作用，我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將擴大近 200 個基點至 27.5%。我們預計今年的增量利潤率將在 30% 至 35% 之間。

There are a few items we want to call out that are baked into the full-year adjusted EBITDA margin outlook. The first is our investment in AI and automation that Luis and I had mentioned, which we expect to become more efficient throughout the year. Second, even though we plan to hire at about the same level as last year, we expect to hire faster and earlier in the year, allowing our new hires to ramp up and contribute sooner.

我們要指出的是，有幾個項目已納入全年調整後 EBITDA 利潤率前景。首先是路易斯和我提到的我們對人工智慧和自動化的投資，我們預計全年這些投資將變得更有效率。其次，儘管我們計劃的招聘人數與去年大致相同，但我們希望在今年早些時候更快地進行招聘，以便我們的新員工能夠更快地上手並做出貢獻。

And finally, we're capitalizing a bit less R&D spend than a year ago now that we've launched Max and several internal tools that enable us to create content significantly more efficiently. The impact of these investments on quarterly adjusted EBITDA margin will be the most pronounced in the first half of 2025.

最後，由於我們推出了 Max 和一些內部工具，使我們能夠更有效率地創建內容，因此我們的研發支出比一年前有所減少。這些投資對季度調整後 EBITDA 利潤率的影響將在 2025 年上半年最為明顯。

So for Q1, we are guiding to an adjusted EBITDA margin of 25%. In addition to the items I mentioned before, Q1 also includes a time shift of marketing expense, which will be more front loaded than last year based on planned marketing campaigns.

因此，對於第一季度，我們預計調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率為 25%。除了我之前提到的項目之外，第一季還包括行銷費用的時間轉移，根據計劃的行銷活動，這將比去年​​更加前期投入。

Now I'll discuss how bookings and profitability will trend throughout the year. We expect our Q2 bookings growth rate to step down from Q1 by about 3.5 points. Year-over-year bookings growth in Q3 should be about the same as in Q2 before stepping down in Q4, which will again be our biggest quarter in terms of dollar bookings. And we expect our revenue growth rate to step down throughout the year.

現在我將討論全年的預訂量和獲利能力趨勢。我們預計第二季的預訂量成長率將較第一季下降約 3.5 個百分點。第三季的年比預訂量成長應該與第二季大致相同，然後在第四季下降，這將再次是我們美元預訂量最大的一個季度。我們預計全年營收成長率將會下降。

As a reminder, we manage to an annual profitability target, and we may see quarterly variability based on timing of expenses, particularly AI costs. But we are currently expecting Q2 adjusted EBITDA margin to be approximately 2 points lower than Q1 with meaningful margin expansion in Q3 and Q4 as we realize AI cost efficiencies and as our marketing spend as a percent of revenue comes down. We ended 2024 with a fully diluted share count of 49.5 million, and for 2025, we expect dilution of around 1%.

提醒一下，我們設法實現了年度獲利目標，我們可能會看到基於費用時間（特別是人工智慧成本）的季度變化。但我們目前預計第二季調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率將比第一季低約 2 個百分點，隨著我們實現 AI 成本效率且行銷支出佔收入的百分比下降，第三季和第四季的利潤率將顯著擴大。截至 2024 年，我們的完全稀釋股份數量為 4,950 萬股，預計 2025 年稀釋股份數量將達到 1% 左右。

And with that, I'll turn it back over to Luis.

現在我將把發言權交還給路易斯。

Thank you, Matt. Before we wrap up, I want to acknowledge something incredible. Our beloved mascot, Duo, has come back from faking his own death, thanks to the dedication of our learners around the world who completed 50 billion XP just in time to bring him back. And he's back to doing what he does best, pestering everyone to keep up their lessons.

謝謝你，馬特。在我們結束之前，我想承認一些令人難以置信的事情。我們心愛的吉祥物 Duo 從假死中復活了，這要感謝我們在世界各地的學習者的奉獻，他們及時完成了 500 億 XP 才將它帶回來。他又開始做他最擅長的事了，催促大家繼續學習。

And now, we would be happy to take your questions. I'll turn it back to Debbie to manage the queue.

現在，我們很樂意回答您的問題。我會將其交還給黛比來管理隊列。

All right. Thanks, Luis. (Event Instructions)

好的。謝謝，路易斯。(活動須知)

Bryan Smilek, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的布萊恩‧斯邁利克 (Bryan Smilek)。

Congrats on the quarter. Just thinking about Max at 5% of paid subscribers. Can you help us understand which cohorts are exhibiting the strongest growth by language or geo? And can you just help us understand how much of these are gross adds versus maybe shifting of subscribers from Super?

恭喜本季取得佳績。只是想一下，付費用戶最多佔 5%。您能否幫助我們了解哪些群體在語言或地理位置方面表現出最強勁的成長？您能否幫助我們了解其中有多少是直接增加的，又有多少是從 Super 轉移過來的訂閱者？

Yeah. So the -- I'll let Luis talk about some of the engagement we see because it is different between English learners and others in Max. But to your point around the 5% and where do they come from, the markets that they come from more or less look similar to Super markets, our Super Duolingo markets, with a couple of exceptions.

是的。所以——我會讓路易斯談談我們看到的一些參與度，因為英語學習者與 Max 中的其他人之間的參與度是不同的。但是對於您提到的 5% 以及他們來自哪裡，他們所來自的市場或多或少與超級市場（我們的超級 Duolingo 市場）類似，但有幾個例外。

Like for example, Japan has higher share of Max subscribers than Super subscribers, but it looks pretty consistent. And then in terms of the cohorts, we saw really nice adoption for brand-new to subscription subscribers and also upgrades from existing Super subs. So we are excited that both of those played prominently in the growth of the subscribers up to 5%.

例如，日本的 Max 用戶份額高於 Super 用戶份額，但看起來相當一致。從群組來看，我們看到新訂閱用戶和現有超級訂閱用戶的升級採用都非常好。因此，我們很高興看到這兩項服務在用戶成長 5% 方面發揮了重要作用。

Yeah. The other thing that I'll add is that, as we mentioned in the last call, I believe, English learners in particular, really, really like this key feature for Max, which is Video Call with Lily. This is the only feature we have ever put in the app that gets used twice as much by English learners versus non-English learners. And that is actually translating in a slightly higher propensity to buy for English learners than Super.

是的。我要補充的另一件事是，正如我們在上次通話中提到的，我相信英語學習者尤其喜歡 Max 的這個主要功能，即與 Lily 進行視訊通話。這是我們在應用程式中添加的唯一功能，其使用頻率是英語學習者的兩倍。這實際上意味著英語學習者的購買傾向比 Super 略高。

Aaron Kessler, Seaport.

亞倫凱斯勒，海港。

Maybe just a follow-up to that question. Maybe on the AI investment, should we think about the AI investments this year as mainly Duo Max and voice calls? Or is there some other areas within AI? And then maybe just on the pricing strategy for English learners for Max. Should we expect higher pricing as well for some of these maybe less developed regions? And then just what is your -- how are you thinking about -- or is maybe just -- you expecting higher paid conversion rates versus trying to sell on Max there?

也許只是對該問題的後續回答。也許在人工智慧投資方面，我們是否應該將今年的人工智慧投資主要視為 Duo Max 和語音通話？或者人工智慧還存在其他領域嗎？然後也許只是討論 Max 針對英語學習者的定價策略。我們是否也應該預期這些可能不太發達的地區的價格會更高？那麼，您是如何考慮的——或者可能只是——您是否期望獲得更高的付費轉換率，而不是嘗試在 Max 上銷售？

Okay. So there's a bunch of things to say here. First of all, AI. The AI investments were -- they're basically coming in -- and expenses. They're basically coming in two parts. We're definitely investing in AI to automate things inside the company. What that does is that actually decreases costs. That's good. And it also allows us to go way faster, particularly in content creation. So the amount of content we're able to generate compared to two years ago is way more. I mean, it's like 10x or more than that.

好的。這裡有很多話要說。首先，人工智慧。人工智慧的投資基本上是收入和支出。它們基本上分為兩個部分。我們肯定會投資人工智慧，以實現公司內部的自動化。這樣做實際上就降低了成本。那挺好的。它還使我們能夠更快地前進，特別是在內容創作方面。因此，與兩年前相比，我們能夠產生的內容數量要多得多。我的意思是，大概是這個數字的 10 倍，甚至更多。

So that's one thing. The other big part is in just feature experimentation or kind of live features like, for example, the Video Call feature. That adds expenses because we have to query the large language model kind of in real time.

這是一回事。另一個重要部分是功能實驗或即時功能，例如視訊通話功能。這會增加費用，因為我們必須即時查詢大型語言模型。

The way we're seeing it is, for now, we're not even trying to optimize those costs. We're just trying to go as fast as possible in generating the best possible features. We know that these costs can be optimized in a lot of ways. And even if we do nothing, the cost will be optimized because the cost of querying large language models is coming down kind of every month.

就目前而言，我們甚至沒有嘗試優化這些成本。我們只是想盡快產生最好的功能。我們知道這些成本可以透過很多方式進行最佳化。即使我們什麼都不做，成本也會優化，因為查詢大型語言模型的成本每個月都在下降。

So the way to think about it is there's going to be kind of an upfront cost for AI, which will happen probably throughout this whole year, but it's because we're in a unique opportunity, a unique time in history where we really want to develop the best possible AI features over time. So that's with AI.

所以想想看，人工智慧會有一定的前期成本，這可能貫穿全年，但這是因為我們處於一個獨特的機會，一個歷史上獨特的時期，我們真正希望隨著時間的推移開發出最好的人工智慧功能。這就是人工智慧。

Now you asked about pricing, particularly for kind of probably the AI packages. At the moment, we have really put Duolingo Max in most -- every country. There's a couple of countries where it's not at. For example, it's not in China simply because we cannot serve things from OpenAI in China. So we're going to have it there, but it's not there yet. But it's basically in every country.

現在您詢問定價，特別是可能的 AI 套餐的定價。目前，我們已將 Duolingo Max 推廣到大多數國家。有幾個國家沒有這種現象。例如，它沒有進入中國，只是因為我們無法在中國提供 OpenAI 的產品。所以我們會把它放到那裡，但它還沒有到達。但基本上每個國家都存在這種情況。

In some of the poorest countries, our price is too high is the truth, but because what we're doing is we're pricing it so that we never lose money on Max, and so that's good. And that -- for most countries, that makes sense and it is a price that makes sense. But for example, in India, the price, I believe, is $70 a year, and that's too expensive for India and we know that. But we expect that, over time, we're going to be able to bring that down, always with a caveat that we're not going to lose money with it.

在一些最貧窮的國家，我們的價格確實太高了，但因為我們的定價是合理的，所以我們在 Max 上永遠不會虧本，所以這很好。對大多數國家來說，這是合理的，而且價格也是合理的。但例如在印度，我相信價格是每年 70 美元，這對印度來說太貴了，我們知道這一點。但我們預計，隨著時間的推移，我們將能夠降低這一成本，但前提是我們不會因此而虧損。

Ralph Schackart, William Blair.

拉爾夫·沙卡特、威廉·布萊爾。

Just can you give us a sense on DAU growth, just a sense of how broad based that was? Maybe how is international doing relative to the overall reported rate? And then just on gross margin, it sounds like this is sort of temporary in nature just to take advantage of that market opportunity. But Matt, longer term, is there anything structural here that you think you won't be able to get back to historic margins? Any sense on that would be great.

您能否向我們介紹一下 DAU 的成長情況，以及其廣泛性？也許相對於整體報告率，國際表現如何？然後就毛利率而言，這聽起來像是暫時的，只是為了利用這個市場機會。但是馬特，從長遠來看，您認為這裡是否存在什麼結構性因素導致您無法回到歷史利潤率？對此有任何看法就太好了。

Yeah. Let me talk about daily active user growth. So we're very happy with the daily active user growth. I mean, we ended the quarter with 51% daily active user growth year over year. It really -- every region is growing.

是的。我先說一下每日活躍用戶的成長。因此，我們對每日活躍用戶的成長感到非常高興。我的意思是，我們本季的每日活躍用戶年增了 51%。確實——每個地區都在成長。

Now of course, it's not true that every region is growing equally, but every region is growing. One thing that is really interesting to say is that the growth rate per region is not really correlated with how mature each region is. So for example, our -- probably our most mature region is Latin America, but it's also growing very fast. That's actually growing at like 80% year over year.

當然，並不是每個地區都在平等成長，但每個地區都在成長。非常有趣的一點是，每個地區的成長率實際上與每個地區的成熟度並沒有相關性。舉例來說，我們最成熟的地區可能是拉丁美洲，但它的成長速度也非常快。事實上，這一數字年增了 80%。

So we're -- what that tells us is that we really are far from saturating any of our markets. We're just -- we're growing pretty fast in all of our markets. I'll let Matt talk about the profitability or margin expansion.

所以，這告訴我們，我們還遠遠沒有達到任何市場的飽和。我們只是——我們在所有市場都發展得相當快。我讓馬特來談談獲利能力或利潤率的擴大。

So Ralph, as I mentioned in my prepared remarks, it is temporary, as you said. It will be more noticeable in the first half of the year, as Luis mentioned, because we're just going as fast as we can, and we'll optimize it in the back half.

所以拉爾夫，正如我在準備好的演講中提到的，這是暫時的，正如你所說。正如路易斯所提到的，這在上半年會更加明顯，因為我們會盡可能快地前進，並在下半年進行優化。

Because of that, by the back half of the year, I expect gross margins to return back so that they're roughly comparable where they've been in the past. But I don't want to understate the fact that there is a structural difference, right? There's a marginal AI cost.

因此，我預計到今年下半年毛利率將回升至與過去大致相當的水平。但我不想低估結構性差異的存在，對嗎？存在邊際人工智慧成本。

It's just that our belief, and we've seen this in the market already, is that, that cost will come down such that it won't be that different. So I feel very good about where our gross margins will end up as we optimize those costs.

我們只是相信，而且我們已經在市場上看到了這一點，那就是成本將會下降，差異不會太大。因此，我對於我們優化這些成本後最終的毛利率感到非常滿意。

And we're still going to have market -- margin expansion. It's just lower -- at a lower rate than in previous years.

而我們仍將維持市場—利潤率的擴大。只是比前幾年低了一些而已。

Ryan MacDonald, Needham.

瑞安麥克唐納，尼德姆。

Congrats on a great quarter. Luis, it was interesting to hear the updated disclosure on Music and Math in terms of 3 million daily active users. I'm curious, given the scale now, how should we think about, one, maybe use of AI to further enhance the content in those 2 categories? And then second, how we think about, Matt, for monetization over time beyond sort of maybe a Family Plan or another area?

恭喜您度過了一個美好的季度。路易斯，聽到音樂和數學的最新披露，即每日活躍用戶數達到 300 萬，真是有趣。我很好奇，考慮到現在的規模，我們應該如何考慮，一、也許使用人工智慧來進一步增強這兩個類別的內容？其次，馬特，我們如何看待隨著時間的推移，除了家庭計劃或其他領域之外的貨幣化？

Thank you for the question. Okay. So we're very excited about Math and Music. Like we said, we now have about 3 million daily active users studying Math and Music. For your question for AI -- and by the way, I should also say, those two are -- those courses are growing faster than our language learning courses.

感謝您的提問。好的。所以我們對數學和音樂非常感興趣。正如我們所說，我們現在每天有大約 300 萬活躍用戶學習數學和音樂。對於你關於人工智慧的問題——順便說一句，我還應該說，這兩個課程——這些課程比我們的語言學習課程成長得更快。

So we do expect that these will continue being a larger and larger fraction of our whole pie. Now in terms of uses for AI, for Math in particular, AI is really going to be amazing. What happens with Math is, at the moment, we don't have a lot of content in our Math course. We have the equivalent of probably third to the fifth grade roughly of content. But of course, there's a lot more we want to put. We want to have all of K-12 and maybe even some college math in there.

因此，我們確實預計，這些將繼續佔據我們整個蛋糕中越來越大的比例。現在就人工智慧的用途而言，特別是對於數學，人工智慧確實將會非常令人驚奇。關於數學，目前我們的數學課程內容並不豐富。我們的內容大概相當於三年級到五年級的內容。但當然，我們還想添加更多內容。我們希望將 K-12 的全部內容，甚至一些大學數學都囊括其中。

Now, the generation of math content historically has been pretty slow because you kind of have to make new exercises for every topic. So for example, we make all these exercises that look really amazing for teaching you the coordinate system, but those kind of don't help all that much for teaching you probability because they just look completely different, and they don't help all that much for teaching you logic, et cetera. So you kind of have to make very different types of exercises. Somebody here said, math is like a combination of 1,000 subjects.

現在，從歷史上看，數學內容的生成一直相當緩慢，因為你必須為每個主題製作新的練習。舉個例子，我們做的這些練習看起來非常神奇，可以教你坐標系，但這些練習對於教你機率並沒有太大幫助，因為它們看起來完全不同，而且它們對於教你邏輯等等也沒有太大幫助。所以你必須進行不同類型的練習。有人說，數學就像是 1,000 個學科的組合。

It's just a bunch of different things. And historically, the first version of the large language models were not very good at math. But of late, we really -- the large language models have added reasoning. So they're actually pretty good at math now, and I think that's going to really accelerate how much content we put in there. So you'll see over the next year or so that the pace at which we are adding content to the Math course is going to improve quite a bit.

這只是一堆不同的東西。而且從歷史上看，大型語言模型的第一個版本在數學方面並不十分出色。但最近，我們確實——大型語言模型增加了推理能力。所以他們現在的數學實際上相當不錯，我認為這將真正加速我們在其中投入的內容。所以你會看到，在接下來的一年左右，我們為數學課程添加內容的速度將會會有很大的提升。

And that, of course, will help us have a lot more uses. For Music, we're also going to be adding a lot of content, but AI is probably not as transformative as it is for Math. And now in terms of monetization for these, at the moment, they are being monetized. I mean, they're being monetized in the same way that we monetize our language courses. Basically, when you do a math lesson, at the end, you see an ad.

當然，這將幫助我們實現更多用途。對於音樂，我們也將添加很多內容，但人工智慧可能不會像數學那樣具有變革性。現在就這些內容的貨幣化而言，目前，它們正在被貨幣化。我的意思是，它們貨幣化的方式和我們語言課程貨幣化的方式是一樣的。基本上，當你上數學課時，最後你會看到一個廣告。

And if you don't want to see ads, you can pay to subscribe. Also, you have -- every time you make a mistake, you lose a life and if you want to get rid of that, you also can buy Super for that. So they're being monetized in the same way. I think for the time being, we expect the monetization to remain the same. So one way to think about how much money Math and Music are making is roughly the proportion of daily active users. It's not precise, but that is kind of one way of thinking about that.

如果您不想看到廣告，可以付費訂閱。此外，每次你犯錯，你就會失去一條生命，如果你想擺脫它，你也可以為此購買超級。所以他們以同樣的方式實現貨幣化。我認為就目前而言，我們預期貨幣化將保持不變。因此，了解「數學和音樂」賺了多少錢的一個方法大致是看每日活躍用戶的比例。這並不精確，但這是一種思考方式。

Ross Sandler, Barclays.

巴克萊銀行的羅斯桑德勒。

Just two quick ones. Going back to the Max penetration, the 5%. Could you talk about like are all the English corridors like about the same in terms of their penetration? Or is there like a high watermark within there? And are there non-English corridors that are working yet for Lily and the Video Calls?

只需簡單兩點。回到最大滲透率，即 5%。您能否談談所有英國走廊的滲透率是否都差不多？或那裡面是否存在高水位？有沒有適合 Lily 和視訊通話的非英文頻道？

And then the second question is, the new chart you put out on the course units published, that's pretty interesting. Kind of shows the ramp of content you're talking about. How should we think about just like longer term how that correlates with other KPIs in your business-like engagement or subs or -- that's a cool chart, but how should investors think about that translating back to the business metrics?

第二個問題是，您發布的有關已發布課程單元的新圖表非常有趣。這有點顯示了您正在談論的內容的坡道。我們應該如何從長期角度考慮，這與您的業務中的其他 KPI（如參與度或訂閱量）有何關聯——這是一個很酷的圖表，但投資者應該如何看待它轉化為業務指標？

Great. So in terms of Max penetration, yes, it's 5%. It is, of course, not even in every country. Like Matt said, it is pretty correlated. It's not precise, but it's pretty correlated with Super penetration. So generally, you see that wealthier countries are more penetrated than less wealthy countries. There's one difference, which is English learners are a little boosted up compared to Super.

偉大的。因此就最大滲透率而言，是的，是 5%。當然，並不是每個國家都是如此。就像馬特說的，它們是相當相關的。它並不精確，但與超級穿透力相當相關。因此，一般來說，你會發現富裕國家比較不富裕的國家滲透得更深入。有一個區別，那就是與超級相比，英語學習者的進步有點大。

So for example, Japan is a prime country that is both wealthy and has English learners, so that's pretty highly penetrated. I mean -- and by pretty highly penetrated, we're still in the single digits there, but it is higher than the 5%. So that's what we're seeing.

例如，日本是一個既富裕又有大量英語學習者的主要國家，因此英語的普及率相當高。我的意思是——滲透率相當高，雖然仍然個位數，但高於 5%。這就是我們所看到的。

But it's not just English learners. I mean, we really are seeing kind of learners of every language. It's just it turns out that English learners are a little higher than what you would see for Super. In terms of course units published, we're super excited about the fact that we can now just publish content way faster, and it is because of AI. We've automated our content pipeline, and we are just going way faster.

但這不僅僅是英語學習者。我的意思是，我們確實看到了各種語言的學習者。只是事實證明，英語學習者的數量比 Super 的多。就發布的課程單元而言，我們非常高興現在可以以更快的速度發佈內容，這是人工智慧的功勞。我們已經實現了內容管道的自動化，而且速度正在大大加快。

How that translates to KPIs is basically we're going to have -- not only are we adding more courses. So what that graph shows is basically the amount of content we've been able to publish in each of the previous years. Some of that content goes to existing courses. That's usually to more advanced sections. And some of that content is to brand-new courses.

如何將其轉化為 KPI 基本上就是我們要做的——我們不僅要增加更多課程。所以這張圖表基本上顯示的是我們前幾年能夠發布的內容量。其中一些內容將納入現有課程。這通常是更高級的部分。其中一些內容是全新的課程。

Brand-new courses increase our usage. So for example, we may not have had -- for Korean speakers, we may not have had a Spanish course. But now we have a Spanish course for Korean speakers. That's just an example. So now anybody who wants to learn Spanish from Korea, it used to be the case that they needed to learn through English.

全新的課程增加了我們的使用量。例如，對於韓語使用者，我們可能沒有開設西班牙語課程。但現在我們為韓語人士開設了西班牙語課程。這只是一個例子。所以現在任何想從韓國學習西班牙語的人都需要透過英語來學習。

So they needed to kind of already know English in order to learn Spanish. Now they can learn it just from Korean. So that should increase our total users. And then the more advanced sections should get -- also should increase our total users because it should get the more advanced learners there. A large chunk of the content that we've been publishing is in more advanced -- for more advanced English learners.

因此他們需要已經了解英語才能學習西班牙語。現在他們只需通過韓語就可以學習。這應該會增加我們的總用戶數。然後更高級的部分應該 - 也應該增加我們的總用戶數，因為它應該吸引更高級的學習者。我們發布的大部分內容都是更高級的——適合更高級的英語學習者。

And that's something that we've talked about quite a bit. But we're very excited about the opportunity for more advanced English learners.

這是我們經常討論的話題。但我們對於為更高級的英語學習者提供的機會感到非常興奮。

[Edison Kai], Citibank.

[Edison Kai]，花旗銀行。

Congrats on such an excellent quarter. And I have question related to the -- for the past quarters, you've mentioned about how the growth of new users and resurrected users growth in the past few quarters. So what do you think of what we're doing right this quarter about like the marketing campaign events you're having? So are they calling for more new users? Or are we calling back those resurrected users?

恭喜您度過如此出色的一個季度。我有一個與過去幾季相關的問題，您提到了過去幾季新用戶和復活用戶的成長。那麼您對我們本季所進行的行銷活動有何看法？那麼他們是在呼籲更多新用戶嗎？或者說，我們正在召回那些復活的用戶？

And for the markets you mentioned like Japan and Latin America, we see the growth from, I guess, new users and resurrected users. So what do you think of like the boost of these two -- like two user growth regions? And which one do you think will be more like effective way to grow in the next few quarters?

對於您提到的日本和拉丁美洲等市場，我們看到的是新用戶和復活用戶的成長。那麼您如何看待這兩個用戶成長區域的提升呢？您認為哪一種方式將成為未來幾季更有效的成長方式？

Yes. This is a really good question that's important in order to understand how our business works. Typically, when people stop using Duolingo, they -- it is rare that they stop and never come back. Most of the people who stop using Duolingo stop for a few months or for a year, and then they come back. So we have a lot of people who are resurrecting, and resurrecting, we mean they haven't been around for at least 30 days.

是的。這是一個非常好的問題，對於了解我們的業務運作方式非常重要。通常情況下，當人們停止使用 Duolingo 時，他們——他們很少會停止使用並且不再回來。大多數停止使用 Duolingo 的人會在幾個月或一年後再次使用。因此，我們有很多人復活，復活的意思是他們至少已經 30 天沒有出現了。

Of course, as we get more mature, the fraction of kind of top of the funnel that is resurrected gets higher and higher because, for example, when we had just launched Duolingo, there was no users to resurrect. So all users were new. And as we get more and more mature, a higher fraction of people are people that are coming back.

當然，隨著我們變得更加成熟，復活的漏斗頂部比例會越來越高，因為例如，當我們剛推出 Duolingo 時，沒有使用者需要復活。所以所有用戶都是新用戶。隨著我們變得越來越成熟，回來的人的比例越來越大。

And that is pretty consistent with how mature we are in each country. So in a country that we've been operating for a lot longer, like the U.S., you would see a higher fraction of resurrected users when compared to new users versus in a country where we've been operating much less time, for example again, India, where we really didn't start spending effort in India up until a couple of years ago.

這與我們每個國家的成熟程度相當一致。因此，在我們運作時間較長的國家，例如美國，你會看到復活用戶的比例與新用戶的比例相比更高，而在我們運作時間較短的國家，例如印度，我們直到幾年前才開始在印度投入精力。

So there, we're still seeing way more new users than we are seeing resurrected users. At the moment, if you look overall, we're seeing slightly more resurrected users than new users at the top of the funnel. But those numbers are pretty similar.

因此，我們仍然看到新用戶的數量比復活的用戶數量多得多。目前，如果從整體來看，我們會發現在漏斗頂端，復活的用戶數量略多於新用戶。但這些數字非常相似。

It's just slightly more for resurrected users. And our marketing in general, most of our marketing goes into kind of these social media campaigns like what you've seen kind of on TikTok or YouTube or Instagram, et cetera. And those are actually really good at both bringing new users and resurrecting users, and we know that because whenever somebody resurrects or whenever a new user comes in, we ask them kind of where they came from. And we know that our campaigns are good at doing both. So we're doing that.

對於復活的用戶來說，這只是稍微多一點而已。總的來說，我們的行銷活動大部分都涉及社群媒體活動，例如您在 TikTok、YouTube 或 Instagram 等等上看到的。這些實際上在吸引新用戶和恢復用戶方面都非常有效，我們知道這一點，因為每當有人恢復或每當有新用戶加入時，我們都會詢問他們來自哪裡。我們知道，我們的活動在這兩方面都做得很好。所以我們這麼做了。

Now in terms of work for them, the one piece of work that we do still need to work on is we know that the retention of resurrected users is not as good as the retention for new users, and we need to improve that. So we're working on that.

現在就他們的工作而言，我們仍然需要努力的一項工作是，我們知道復活用戶的保留不如新用戶的保留，我們需要改進這一點。所以我們正在努力。

Part of the thing that happens is when somebody has been gone, a lot of times, they've been gone for a very long time. We should -- what we should do is we should assume that they've forgotten everything. If they've been gone for two years, we should assume they've forgotten everything. We're not. And so that's something that we could just do better.

發生的情況部分是當某人已經離開時，很多時候，他們已經離開很久了。我們應該——我們應該做的是假設他們已經忘記了一切。如果他們已經離開兩年了，我們應該認為他們已經忘記了一切。我們不是。所以這是我們可以做得更好的事情。

Andrew Boone, JMP.

安德魯·布恩，JMP。

I want to go back to Ross' question. It's a derivation of it. Luis, in your first priority, you talked about growing users, improving subscriber conversion, and then promoting Max through testing, right? And so like the question is, okay, you guys are doing so much more content. How does that relate to testing in terms of generative AI? Are you guys seeing accelerated like product cadence in terms of what you guys put out there? Help us understand your testing velocity as it relates to 2025?

我想回到羅斯的問題。它是它的派生詞。路易斯，在你的首要任務中，你談到了增加用戶、提高訂閱者轉換率，然後透過測試推廣 Max，對嗎？所以問題是，好吧，你們正在做更多的內容。這與生成式人工智慧的測試有何關係？就你們推出的產品而言，你們的產品節奏是否加快了？請協助我們了解與 2025 年相關的測試速度？

I think I understand your question. I'm not 100% sure. But basically, if you're asking about just the types of tests that we run, I mean, we usually run these A/B tests to try to improve our core metrics. And we have to concentrate on a number of core metrics. In this case, we are concentrating on getting more users to subscribe to Max.

我想我明白你的問題了。我不太確定。但基本上，如果您只是詢問我們運行的測試類型，我的意思是，我們通常會執行這些 A/B 測試來嘗試改進我們的核心指標。我們必須集中精力關註一些核心指標。在這種情況下，我們專注於讓更多用戶訂閱 Max。

The types of tests that we run are things like when do we advertise Max. Who do we advertise it to? Do we advertise to subscribers? How often do we advertise it to subscribers?? What do we say when we advertise to them?

我們進行的測試類型包括何時宣傳 Max。我們要向誰宣傳它？我們有向訂閱者做廣告嗎？我們多久向訂閱者宣傳一次？當我們向他們做廣告時我們該說些什麼？

And we have found some vectors that really allow us to experiment a lot. So for example, one of the main ways we're getting people to subscribe to Max is with an ad for Video Call. We show kind of what it looks like to do Video Call, and that is very effective at getting people to subscribe. And in terms of the velocity of these tests, I feel really good.

而我們已經找到了一些確實可以讓我們進行大量實驗的載體。舉個例子，我們讓人們訂閱 Max 的主要方式之一是發布視訊通話廣告。我們展示了視訊通話的樣子，這對於吸引人們訂閱非常有效。就這些測試的速度而言，我感覺非常好。

We're -- this year -- well, in 2024, we ran more tests than we've ever done before. And I believe that, in 2025, we're going to run way more tests than in 2024. So our velocity is looking really good and we have a really good road map for that. Yes. Hopefully, that answers your question.

今年，也就是 2024 年，我們進行的測試比以往任何時候都要多。我相信，到 2025 年，我們進行的測試將比 2024 年多得多。因此我們的速度看起來非常好，我們為此有一個非常好的路線圖。是的。希望這能回答您的問題。

Justin Patterson, KeyBanc.

賈斯汀·帕特森，KeyBanc。

It's fitting I'm going to ask a bootleg Jack Antonoff a question wearing a bootleg Duolingo T-shirt. But maybe building on just Ross' and Andrew's question a little bit more. Luis, you have a mission to make education more affordable to the masses. You alluded to it earlier with Max. You don't want to be pricing at bad unit economics internationally.

穿著盜版 Duolingo T 卹，我要去向盜版傑克安東諾夫 (Jack Antonoff) 提問，這很合適。但也許可以對羅斯和安德魯的問題進行更多的探討。路易斯，你的使命是讓大眾更能接受教育。您之前曾向 Max 提及這一點。你不會想按照國際上糟糕的單位經濟狀況來定價。

So as we get into this environment where inference costs continue dropping, how do you think about just the pace that you might provide some of those savings back to users? And then secondarily, just thinking about Video Calls. Any additional learnings you can share about just the proficiency of people engaging there since you've already done the hard part. You've gotten casual users to jump into the category. I'm curious how well you're doing converting them from, say, more casual usage to advanced proficiency.

那麼，當我們進入這種推理成本不斷下降的環境時，您如何考慮以何種速度將節省的部分成本回饋給使用者？其次，我們再考慮一下視訊通話。由於您已經完成了最困難的部分，因此您可以分享有關參與其中的人員的熟練程度的任何其他經驗。您已讓一般使用者加入該類別。我很好奇你在將它們從比較隨意的用法轉變為高級熟練程度方面做得如何。

Yes. The -- sorry, what was your first question again? Just around proficiency?

是的。——抱歉，你的第一個問題是什麼？只是關於熟練程度？

First question was just as inference costs continue to drop, how do you think about the value of (inaudible)

第一個問題是，隨著推理成本不斷下降，您如何看待（聽不清楚）

Yes, generally, we have these three tiers. We have the free tier. We have the Super, and we have the highest tier, Max. At the moment, because of inference costs, particularly for Video Call, we have to have Video Call in the highest tier. That's not necessarily going to always be the case.

是的，一般來說，我們有這三個層級。我們提供免費套餐。我們有 Super，而且我們還有最高級別，Max。目前，由於推理成本，特別是視訊通話成本，我們必須將視訊通話置於最高層。情況並不一定總是如此。

It may be the case that, at some point, it gets cheap enough for us to put in a lower tier. We may even be able to give some of it for free. And in general, we'll be testing whatever is best for the long term, not just LTV but the long-term health of our app. And we know that, in many cases, giving things for free is actually the best thing for our app. So we're just going to be testing a lot.

可能的情況是，到了某個時候，價格變得足夠便宜，我們可以將其置於較低的層級。我們甚至可以免費提供其中一些。總的來說，我們會測試對長期最有利的因素，不僅是 LTV，還包括我們應用程式的長期健康狀況。我們知道，在很多情況下，免費提供東西實際上對我們的應用程式來說是最好的。因此我們將進行大量測試。

At the moment, our hands are a bit tied because the costs are just high -- too high, but we will definitely be testing where to have these features. Now in terms of getting the users proficiency, we're really happy with how much better we are teaching, particularly conversation now with Video Call. We know that before this, we really didn't have a great way to practice conversation and now we do. And that is -- it's working. I mean, it's really effective.

目前，我們有點束手無策，因為成本太高了，但我們肯定會測試在哪裡可以實現這些功能。現在，就提高用戶熟練程度而言，我們對教學水平的提高感到非常高興，尤其是現在透過視訊通話進行的對話。我們知道在此之前我們確實沒有很好的方法來練習對話，但現在我們有了。並且它正在發揮作用。我的意思是，它確實非常有效。

Thank you for calling me bootleg Antonoff.

謝謝你叫我盜版安東諾夫。

I'm going to save Mr. Skaruppa for another day.

我要把 Skaruppa 先生留到另一天再談。

That's going to be a thing.

這將會成為一件事。

Mark Mahaney, Evercore.

馬克‧馬哈尼 (Mark Mahaney)，Evercore。

Okay. You talked about, in the letter, making Lily more dynamic and interactive. That seems like a pretty low bar to me. So what are you thinking about? Secondly, Matt, the subscription revenue per average sub, so we've sort of -- seems like we've hit this inflection point.

好的。您在信中談到了讓 Lily 更具活力和互動性。在我看來，這個標準太低了。那你在想什麼？其次，馬特，就每個平均訂閱者的訂閱收入而言，我們似乎已經達到了這個轉​​折點。

I assume it's relatively -- like in that guidance that you gave for the full year, should we assume that, that subscription revenue per average subs continues to grow because of greater Max and Family adoption? And then third, the ad revenue, I guess, was a little -- came in a little lower and now you have pressured gross margins a little bit. Is that just because it's less of a focus for the company. You just don't need the ad dollars. Or I don't know, is that a problem you need to solve?

我認為這是相對的——就像您給出的全年指導一樣，我們是否應該假設，由於 Max 和 Family 的採用率更高，平均每位訂閱用戶的訂閱收入將繼續增長？第三，我想，廣告收入有點下降了，這對毛利率造成了一點壓力。這是否只是因為公司不太關注這一點？你只是不需要廣告費。或者我不知道，這是您需要解決的問題？

Thanks, Mark. Yes, Luis, you can take the first one. I'll take the other one.

謝謝，馬克。是的，路易斯，你可以選擇第一個。我要另外一個。

Yes, yes. I mean, in general, what we meant by that is, at the moment, Lily is not necessarily your best friend yet. We want that to happen. We really wanted to have -- we want it to be the case that you want to talk to Lily. And by the way, that is the thing that really differentiates us from every other learning thing.

是的，是的。我的意思是，總的來說，我們這麼說的意思是，目前，莉莉還不一定是你最好的朋友。我們希望這能夠發生。我們真的希望——我們希望你想和莉莉談談。順便說一句，這正是我們與其他學習事物的真正區別。

Not only do we teach effectively, but also people actually want to use Duolingo. And in particular, for Lily, we want people to actually want to talk to her. And so that just means every time you go there, she'll have something interesting to tell you. She'll remember what you told her last time. She'll ask you about your problems, et cetera.

我們不僅教學有效，人們也確實願意使用 Duolingo。特別是對於莉莉來說，我們希望人們真正願意和她交談。這意味著每次你去那裡，她都會告訴你一些有趣的事情。她會記得你上次告訴她的話。她會詢問你的問題等等。

And we're working on that. I mean, it's a fine balance because one of the things that is hard is we're getting these people who may not be able to express themselves all that well. Yet we want to be able to ask them how their lives are and tell them something about Lily's life. So that's what we're going to be working on. And there's a lot of work to be done there.

我們正在努力實現這一目標。我的意思是，這需要一種微妙的平衡，因為困難的事情之一是我們遇到的這些人可能無法很好地表達自己。然而，我們希望能夠詢問他們的生活狀況，並告訴他們一些關於莉莉的生活的情況。這就是我們要做的事情。還有很多工作要做。

But I think by the end of the year, what's going to happen is there's just kind of -- we're just going to see much higher engagement numbers. Even though they're already -- I feel pretty good about our current engagement numbers with Lily, we're going to see much better engagement numbers with her.

但我認為到今年年底，我們將會看到更高的參與度。儘管他們已經——我對我們目前與莉莉的互動數字感到很滿意，但我們會看到她與我們的互動數字會更好。

And then on the ARPU question and on the ads. On the ARPU, you're absolutely right, Mark. We told you last call that we thought it'd be flat to up, and it ended up, up, which was great. And it gives me a chance just to remind everyone that we talk a lot about pricing, and we run pricing experiments all the time. We're running them now, price point experiments.

然後是關於 ARPU 問題和廣告。關於 ARPU，你完全正確，馬克。我們上次告訴你，我們認為它會持平或上漲，結果它是上漲的，這很好。這讓我有機會提醒大家，我們常常討論定價問題，而且我們一直在進行定價實驗。我們現在正在進行價格點實驗。

But the larger shift we expect over the next several years is we're effective at continuing to shift people to Family Plan and to shift more folks to Max. That will be the larger ARPU swing. For the rest of the year, you're right. The guide assumes that we see positive ARPU year-over-year throughout the year. And then on ads, you're absolutely right.

但我們預計未來幾年更大的轉變是，我們將有效地繼續讓人們轉向家庭計劃，並讓更多的人轉向 Max。這將會是更大的 ARPU 波動。對於今年剩下的時間來說，你是對的。該指南假設我們看到全年的 ARPU 年比呈正增長。關於廣告，你完全正確。

We're a subscription business, and so our -- most of our energy is running experiments to optimize our subscriptions. Ads was lighter in Q4. It's a combination of volume and RPMs. The volume is a good news story for us because we're showing more Duolingo ads to get folks to take Super or Max. So I don't expect ads to fundamentally shift up a gear.

我們是一家訂閱式企業，因此，我們的大部分精力都投入到實驗中以優化我們的訂閱。第四季廣告較少。它是音量和 RPM 的組合。對我們來說這是一個好消息，因為我們會展示更多的 Duolingo 廣告來吸引人們選擇 Super 或 Max。所以我並不認為廣告會出現根本性的飛躍。

We're focused on subscriptions.

我們專注於訂閱。

Wyatt, D.A. Davidson.

懷亞特，D.A.戴維森。

I just had a quick one here. Just given the massive TAM of 2 billion language learners, it's still really early, clearly, of the potential user base that you guys get to have. Can you maybe talk about like where you see user growth coming from next? Like what markets or demos do you consider the next growth avenue? Like what are you -- where are you underpenetrated right now? And like how are you setting yourselves up to achieve growth in those areas?

我剛剛在這裡吃了一點東西。鑑於 20 億語言學習者的龐大潛在市場規模，顯然現在確定你們的潛在用戶群還為時過早。您能否談談您認為下一步用戶成長的趨勢？您認為哪些市場或演示是下一個成長途徑？例如，您現在的情況是怎樣的？你們如何做好準備以實現這些領域的成長？

Yes, thanks for the question. Okay. So at the moment, we're seeing really growth in every geography. They're not identical growth in every geography, but we're seeing growth in every geography. There -- one of the things I said in a previous answer, the -- what's amazing, at least to me, is that the -- how penetrated a geography is or how mature a geography is, is essentially not correlated with how fast it's growing.

是的，謝謝你的提問。好的。因此目前我們看到每個地區都在真正成長。每個地區的成長情況並不相同，但我們看到每個地區都在成長。我在先前的回答中提到過，至少對我來說，令人驚訝的是，一個地區的滲透程度或成熟程度，本質上與其成長速度沒有關聯。

So some of our most mature geographies like Latin America are some -- also some of our fastest ones, which means we're just -- there's really -- we're nowhere near tapped out. So that's good. Now in terms of what are -- where are we more or less penetrated, generally, Asia is the place where we're least penetrated simply because we started much later there. And so I think there's a huge opportunity there. Places like Japan, Korea, India, China, I think there's a huge opportunity there.

因此，我們一些最成熟的地區，例如拉丁美洲，也是我們發展最快的地區，這意味著我們還遠遠沒有達到極限。這很好。現在就我們在哪些地方的滲透程度比較高或低而言，一般來說，亞洲是我們滲透程度最低的地方，因為我們在那裡起步較晚。所以我認為這裡存在著巨大的機會。我認為日本、韓國、印度、中國等地存在著巨大的機會。

What we're doing there is we're setting up marketing. I mean, we've already set it up, but it's a little less developed than our marketing in some of our more mature markets. But we're setting up marketing. And by marketing, I mean, just to be clear, don't mean a bunch of performance market or anything, essentially very similar marketing to what you see here in the US, which is a lot of social media stunts and stuff like that, that work really well.

我們在那裡所做的就是開展行銷。我的意思是，我們已經建立了它，但它比我們在一些更成熟市場的營銷稍微欠發達一些。但我們正在建立行銷體系。需要明確的是，我所說的行銷並不是指一堆績效市場或其他什麼，本質上與您在美國看到的行銷非常相似，即大量社交媒體噱頭和類似的東西，效果非常好。

Fun fact, by the way, Duo, our owl, faked his death in every single market that we had except for Japan because it turns out that in Japan, joking about death is not as kosher. So in Japan, he was just not dead.

順便說一下，有趣的是，我們的貓頭鷹 Duo 在我們除日本以外的每個市場都假裝自己死亡，因為事實證明在日本，拿死亡開玩笑是不合法的。所以在日本，他並沒有死。

Chris Kuntarich, UBS.

瑞銀的 Chris Kuntarich。

I just wanted to ask you about the four days of stronger promo period and maybe just zoom out for a second and kind of hear about how did Max perform versus your expectations in the promo period? Are you seeing a larger uptake for Max versus the Super plan? And just kind of how does that mix look as we look at adoption during that promo period?

我只是想問您關於為期四天的強化促銷期的問題，也許只是稍微縮小一下範圍，聽聽 Max 在促銷期間的表現與您的預期相比如何？您是否看到 Max 計劃比 Super 計劃的採用率更高？那麼當我們看促銷期間的採用情況時，這種組合看起來如何呢？

Yes, I'm happy to take a shot and Luis can come in. So the overall promo period surpassed our forecast. And it did so both on Max, as you kind of alluded to. Max did better and then the Family Plan also did better in those last 4 days of the year. So it was kind of a well-rounded outperformance in those last four days.

是的，我很高興嘗試一下，路易斯可以進來。因此整體促銷期超出了我們的預測。正如您所暗示的，它在 Max 上也做到了這一點。馬克斯 (Max) 的表現更好，而家庭計劃在一年最後四天的表現也更好。因此，在過去四天裡，它的表現可以說是全面優異。

I do think that it's important to know that the performance throughout the quarter was strong, though. It wasn't just the last 4 days or the promo period. We had strong user growth throughout the quarter and a bunch of other bread-and-butter monetization experiments that really paid off in the quarter, a bit even differentially and above our expectations. So it wasn't just the New Year's promo.

不過，我確實認為，了解整個季度的表現強勁很重要。這不僅僅是最後 4 天或促銷期。整個季度，我們的用戶成長強勁，一系列其他基本的獲利實驗確實在本季度獲得了回報，甚至略有不同，超出了我們的預期。所以這不僅僅是一個新年促銷。

Next question comes from Georgia Anderson at Wolfe stepping in for Shweta.

下一個問題來自 Wolfe 的 Georgia Anderson，她將取代 Shweta 發言。

I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the languages that are available on the app, on the Duolingo Max tier. I think most of the romantic languages were available as of a couple of months ago, but I was wondering if there's kind of an ideal number of languages, what the rollout of that has kind of been, languages are kind of easier or more difficult to add. Just anything along those lines would be helpful.

我想知道您是否可以談談該應用程式在 Duolingo Max 層級上可用的語言。我認為大多數浪漫語言在幾個月前就已經可用了，但我想知道是否存在理想的語言數量，這些語言的推出情況如何，哪些語言更容易添加還是更難添加。任何類似這樣的事都會有幫助。

Sure. Happy to take that. Generally, we have our largest languages by demand already available in Max, so for example, English available, French, Spanish, et cetera. Japanese is available. Chinese is available. Now the thing to understand about our languages is that there is a pretty lopsided demand. So for example, about half our users are learning English. A little under 20% are learning Spanish, and a little under 10% are learning French. So those three combined is like 75%, give or take. And that's just three languages.

當然。很高興接受這個。一般來說，我們需求最多的語言已經在 Max 中可用，例如英語、法語、西班牙語等等。有日文版本。有中文版本。現在我們需要了解的是，對於我們的語言，需求是相當不平衡的。例如，大約一半的用戶正在學習英語。略低於 20％ 的人正在學習西班牙語，略低於 10％ 的人正在學習法語。因此，這三者加起來大約是 75%。這只是三種語言。

And then all other languages combined -- we, in total, teach about 40-some languages. All other 37, call it, languages, only account for 25%. So we cover -- with Max, we cover at least the big bulk. We have -- we cover the top eight. It is true that it is harder to add it to non-romance languages.

然後將所有其他語言加起來——我們總共教授大約 40 多種語言。其餘 37 種語言僅佔 25%。因此，我們透過 Max 至少涵蓋了大部分內容。我們已經覆蓋了前八名。確實，將其添加到非羅曼語言中比較困難。

So for example, it's harder to add it to Japanese or Chinese. And part of what's difficult there is that it's just learning those languages -- particularly for people from Western countries, learning those languages is so much harder that when we put, for example, a Video Call on -- for an early Japanese learner, they really -- it's very hard for them to understand anything.

例如，將其添加到日語或中文中就比較困難。而其中的困難部分在於學習這些語言——特別是對於來自西方國家的人們來說，學習這些語言要困難得多，例如，當我們進行視訊通話時——對於剛開始學習日語的人來說，他們真的——他們很難理解任何內容。

Whereas if we put a Video Call in Spanish -- if you're in the US and we put a Video Call in Spanish, a vast majority of people, even if we haven't taught them anything, kind of understand like buenos dias, like most people can do that, whereas for a language like Japanese is much harder in that respect. So we have to do all kinds of things to make it -- to really either put things like Video Call, start them later or dumb it down even more than we would need to. That's the type of stuff we have to do.

然而，如果我們用西班牙語進行視訊通話——如果你在美國，我們用西班牙語進行視訊通話，絕大多數人，即使我們沒有教他們任何東西，也能聽懂，就像 buenos dias 一樣，大多數人都能做到這一點，而對於日語這樣的語言來說，在這方面要困難得多。因此，我們必須採取各種措施來實現這一目標——要么真正實現視訊通話之類的功能，要么稍後再啟動，要么將其簡化到超出我們需要的程度。這就是我們必須要做的事。

Curt Nagle, BofA.

美國銀行的 Curt Nagle。

Maybe, Matt, one for you. And I guess, forgive me if I misread this. Just maybe expand on why the revenue growth is expected to step down a little bit in terms of rate of growth, right? Max is ramping. And then as a related question, where do you think Max -- maybe for you, Luis. Where do you think Max penetration could end up by year-end? Kind of what's embedded in the guidance? What are your aspirations for that?

也許，馬特，有一個適合你。我想，如果我誤讀了這一點，請原諒我。也許可以進一步解釋為什麼預計收入成長的成長率會略有下降，對嗎？馬克斯正在加速。然後作為一個相關的問題，您認為 Max 在哪裡——也許對您來說，Luis。您認為今年底最大滲透率會達到多少？指南中具體包含了哪些內容？您對此有何期望？

Thanks, Curt. Yes, on the revenue guide, that's just a factor of the math of the bookings rate. So revenue in any given quarter is essentially just a composite of the last four quarters of bookings growth rate. So that's just a mathematical outcome of the bookings guidance. So I don't think there's all that much there.

謝謝，Curt。是的，在收入指南中，這只是預訂率計算的一個因素。因此，任何一個季度的收入本質上只是過去四個季度的預訂量成長率的綜合。這只是預訂指南的數學結果。所以我不認為那裡有那麼多東西。

I would just also call out that as we lay out the bookings guide for the year, that does have a pretty sizable FX impact, right? So that will be felt over time through the revenue guide as well. So both of those things are at play. And then I think Luis had the second part of the question.

我還要指出的是，當我們制定今年的預訂指南時，這確實會產生相當大的外匯影響，對嗎？因此，隨著時間的推移，收入指南也會反映出這一點。所以這兩件事都在起作用。然後我認為路易斯問的是問題的第二部分。

Just how high Max penetration can get, I mean, look, in general, we don't really know where that is -- we know it can get higher than 5% because we're seeing it grow kind of on a daily basis. So it will get -- it will grow throughout the year, but we don't really know how high it is. I'm sure we have something in the model.

最大滲透率到底能達到多高，我的意思是，總的來說，我們真的不知道它在哪裡——我們知道它可以高於 5%，因為我們看到它每天都在增長。所以它會——它會全年增長，但我們真的不知道它有多高。我確信我們的模型中有一些東西。

Yes. I mean, I think our expectation for Max is that it's a material amount of bookings in 2025 because we're seeing really nice growth in penetration in it. But as Luis pointed out, we think it's -- we're early days. There's a ton of rapid innovation to do on those features and how we surface that and how we price that and then what the AI costs. So it's just very early, and we're excited about it for that reason.

是的。我的意思是，我認為我們對 Max 的預期是，到 2025 年，它的預訂量將大幅增加，因為我們看到它的滲透率正在大幅增加。但正如路易斯指出的那樣，我們認為現在還為時過早。在這些功能方面我們需要進行大量的快速創新，包括如何展示這些功能、如何定價以及人工智慧的成本是多少。所以現在還為時過早，我們對此感到很興奮。

John Colantuoni, Jefferies.

傑富瑞的約翰‧科蘭托尼 (John Colantuoni)。

I wanted to ask one about reinvestment. When comparing how users typically interact with Duolingo today relative to intermediate English learners, how do you expect a growing focus on intermediate English learners to evolve your approach to marketing and flexibility to reinvest dollars back into product and innovation?

我想問一個關於再投資的問題。當比較當今用戶與中級英語學習者與 Duolingo 的互動方式時，您認為對中級英語學習者的日益關注將如何改善您的行銷方法和靈活性，以便將資金重新投資到產品和創新中？

Yes. In terms of the more intermediate -- so just to remind people, I think take a little step back. We have decided to concentrate on more intermediate English learners as of relatively recently. It's really a couple of years ago. The reason for that is because that is a huge part of the market that we pretty much were not serving.

是的。就中級而言 — — 只是為了提醒大家，我認為要退後一步。從最近開始，我們決定將重點放在中級英語學習者身上。這確實是幾年前的事了。原因在於，這佔了很大一部分市場，我們基本上沒有提供這些服務。

We had English courses but they were mostly for beginners. So we started really investing in more advanced English courses. We now have the content there. So the content is now there, and so it's kind of a matter of time for people to start interacting with this content. And one of the things about Duolingo is that our main way of growing is word of mouth.

我們有英語課程，但大多數是針對初學者的。因此我們開始真正投資更高級的英語課程。現在我們已經有內容了。現在內容已經存在，人們開始與這些內容互動只是時間問題。Duolingo 的特色之一是，我們主要的發展方式是口耳相傳。

That's how we've mainly grown. And for the last more than a decade, basically, the word has gotten around that Duolingo is a fun way to learn a language and people have come to the app. In English learning markets, so in non-English speaking countries, the word also got around that we're good for beginners but not for advanced learners because the content wasn't even there.

這就是我們成長的主要方式。在過去的十多年裡，Duolingo 是一種有趣的語言學習方式，人們紛紛使用這個應用程式。在英語學習市場，也就是非英語國家，也有傳言說我們的課程適合初學者，但不適合高級學習者，因為我們甚至沒有提供相關內容。

So at the moment, if you go and talk to your average person in -- pick any country where they're trying to learn English, many of them will tell you, yes, if you're a beginner, that's what -- you should use Duolingo. If You're more advanced, that's not the case because they don't know that the content is there.

因此目前，如果你去和任何一個國家正在學習英語的普通人交談，他們中的許多人都會告訴你，是的，如果你是一個初學者，那麼你應該使用 Duolingo。如果您更高級，情況就不是如此，因為他們不知道那裡有內容。

It is, of course, our job to make sure that they have the content there. Because most of what we do is word of mouth, we expect that through word of mouth, it will get out that we have the content. Now the problem with that is that it will take some time for that. We will do some marketing for that, and so that will help. But one thing that is just maybe a challenge is that our most effective marketing throughout the world is things like Duo deciding to fake his death.

當然，我們的工作是確保他們擁有所需的內容。因為我們所做的大部分工作都是透過口耳相傳來實現的，所以我們希望透過口耳相傳，人們能夠知道我們的內容。現在的問題是這需要一些時間。我們會為此做一些行銷，這樣會有所幫助。但可能存在的一個挑戰是，我們在全球最有效的行銷手段就是 Duo 決定偽造自己的死亡。

That's very effective, but that does nothing for convincing people about whether we're good at more advanced English or not. It's just good to get the word out. So we do have to change some of our marketing tactics for that, and we're working on it. But -- so you'll basically see us do that. My -- what we're seeing is that the content for more advanced English learners is getting more and more interaction.

這非常有效，但無法讓人們相信我們是否擅長更高級的英語。把這個消息傳出去是件好事。因此，我們確實必須改變一些行銷策略，我們正在努力。但是——所以你基本上會看到我們這樣做。我們看到的是，針對高級英語學習者的內容變得越來越具有互動性。

So we're getting more and more advanced English learners over time. And so that number is growing quite a bit, and my sense is that by the end of the year, we'll have way more. And then by the end of the year -- the year after that, we'll have even more. So it's just growing in pretty nice pace.

因此，隨著時間的推移，我們將擁有越來越多的高級英語學習者。所以這個數字正在成長相當多，我的感覺是，到今年年底，我們將會擁有更多。到今年年底——後年，我們將擁有更多。所以它正以相當好的速度成長。

And John, just to -- we are spending -- it's not just on English learners, but we are spending more in absolute dollars in marketing this year than we did last year. And we're still getting leverage on the S&M line, right, because those growth rates are just smaller than revenue. So I don't -- our reinvestment rate in marketing, I feel very comfortable with. We're increasing marketing spend and yet still getting leverage. And I think that's a nice spot to be -- pretty lucky spot to be in.

約翰，我們的支出——不僅僅是在英語學習者身上，今年我們在行銷上的絕對支出比去年更多。而且我們仍然在利用 S＆M 產品線的槓桿，對吧，因為這些成長率只是低於收入。因此，我對我們在行銷方面的再投資率感到非常滿意。我們正在增加行銷支出，但仍然獲得槓桿作用。我認為這是一個很好的位置 - 相當幸運的位置。

Alex Sklar, Raymond James.

亞歷克斯·斯克拉、雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Luis or Matt, just you commented on higher Max LTVs that you've observed so far. Obviously, the 2x pricing is a big piece of it. But I'm just curious, how has early Max retention relative to Super? And then given some of the higher usage features like Video Call that you called out, how are you thinking about retention of Max over the medium term?

Luis 或 Matt，剛才您評論了迄今為止觀察到的更高的最大 LTV。顯然，2 倍定價是其中很重要的一環。但我只是好奇，早期的 Max 保留率相對於 Super 而言如何？然後考慮到您提到的一些使用率較高的功能（例如視訊通話），您如何考慮中期保留 Max 呢？

Yes. The retention so far looks good. But as your point -- you pointed out, it's early days. So we don't actually have the full on, but we have ways we estimate that and we feel good about it. And the LTV is really strong. So Max is undeniably our highest LTV tier, and the more we can shift there, the better. Hopefully, retention goes up over time as well as we improve the features.

是的。到目前為止，保留看起來不錯。但正如您所指出的，現在還為時過早。因此，我們實際上並沒有完全了解，但我們有辦法估計這一點，並且我們對此感到滿意。而且 LTV 確實很高。因此，毫無疑問，Max 是我們最高的 LTV 層級，我們越能向那裡轉移，就越好。希望隨著我們不斷改進功能，保留率也會隨著時間的推移而提高。

Eric Sheridan, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的艾瑞克‧謝裡丹 (Eric Sheridan)。

Maybe, Matt, coming back to the way you framed incremental margins for 2025, wanted to maybe ask a two-parter. First, what do you, as a team, see as sort of the critical investments that have to be made that would put somewhat a pressure on incremental margins? I think you called out hiring in the prepared remarks, but I want to put a little bit better scope around that.

也許，馬特，回到你為 2025 年制定的增量利潤率的問題上，也許想問一個兩部分的問題。首先，作為一個團隊，您認為必須進行哪些關鍵投資才能對增量利潤造成一定壓力？我覺得您在準備好的發言中提到了招聘，但我想對此進行更深入的探討。

And in prior years, you have exceeded margin guidance, and it's proved to be more conservative or there's been outperformance. What could be areas in the business where you could outperform the margin guidance as opposed to it more coming in line with the expectations as you go deeper into the year?

而在前幾年，您的利潤率已經超出預期，事實證明這是更保守的，或者表現優異。在業務中，有哪些領域可以超越利潤率指引，而不是隨著時間的推移而更符合預期？

Yes. Thanks, Eric. No, it's a great question. So just to reiterate what I said in the prepared remarks a bit about the less important spend items, the one we're spending the more money on earlier is sales and marketing, right? And we're hiring faster.

是的。謝謝，埃里克。不，這是一個很好的問題。因此，我只是想重申一下我在準備好的評論中所說的關於不太重要的支出項目的內容，我們之前花費更多錢的是銷售和行銷，對嗎？而且我們的招募速度也更快了。

So that's what you mentioned. We want to do those things because we see an opportunity, and those are helpful. But the biggest, most important investment and increased cost that's leading to our margin expansion of 200 basis points is the marginal cost of Max. And so that's a really important driver of margins, but it just means that Max is going to grow nicely. And that's great for the top line.

這就是您提到的。我們想做這些事情，因為我們看到了機會，而這些事情是有幫助的。但導致我們的利潤率擴大 200 個基點的最大、最重要的投資和增加的成本是 Max 的邊際成本。所以，這對利潤率來說是一個非常重要的驅動因素，但這只意味著 Max 將會順利成長。這對於營收來說非常好。

And it's great for the ultimate LTV of the platform because, again, as we've said on this call and we said in the shareholder letter, we believe over time that those costs will come down for Max. But now is not the time to focus the teams on cost optimization. It's the focus that -- now is the time to focus the team on going as fast as possible to grow adoption of that tier. So that's really the biggest piece of the puzzle on the margin side, Eric. And the upsides to it are costs could come down faster on AI costs.

這對平台的最終 LTV 非常有利，因為正如我們在這次電話會議中以及在股東信中所說的那樣，我們相信隨著時間的推移，Max 的這些成本將會下降。但現在不是讓團隊專注於成本優化的時候。重點是——現在是團隊集中精力盡快擴大該層級的採用的時候了。所以，埃里克，這確實是利潤方面最大的難題。它的好處是，人工智慧的成本可以下降得更快。

But again, I still feel really good about where our incremental margins are. They're in our long-term margin range. And so I feel very comfortable with how we're balancing margins as we're growing really rapidly on the top line.

但是，我仍然對我們的增量利潤率感到非常滿意。它們在我們的長期利潤範圍內。因此，我對我們的利潤平衡方式感到非常滿意，因為我們的營收成長非常迅速。

Nat Schindler, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Nat Schindler。

We can't hear you, Matt. Maybe your headphones because you are now on mute and you were not before. No.

我們聽不到你的聲音，馬特。可能是您的耳機，因為您現在處於靜音狀態，而之前沒有處於靜音狀態。不。

All right. Sorry about that. Got to love technology, right? I'm showing no further questions, so we can go ahead and wrap it up. I'll turn it back to Luis.

好的。很抱歉。必須熱愛技術，對吧？我沒有其他問題了，所以我們可以繼續並結束討論。我會把它還給路易斯。

Thanks, Debbie. I'd just like to thank everyone for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you on the next call.

謝謝，黛比。我只想感謝大家的加入，我們期待在下次電話會議上見到你們。

Bye, everyone.

大家再見。