Ginkgo Bioworks Holdings Inc (DNA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good evening. I'm Joseph Fridman, Director of Communications and Corporate Affairs here at Ginkgo, where it's my fifth year. During that time, I've had the pleasure and the privilege of working with our Investor Relations team, usually behind the scenes of these earnings calls. And so it's exciting to be supporting you today in this more front-facing role.

晚安.我是約瑟夫‧弗里德曼 (Joseph Fridman)，銀杏公司傳播與企業事務總監，今年是我在銀杏公司任職的第五年。在此期間，我很榮幸能夠與我們的投資者關係團隊合作，通常是在這些收益電話會議的幕後工作。因此，我很高興今天能夠以這個更前線的角色支持您。

I'm joined by Jason Kelly, our Co-Founder and CEO; and Mark Dmytruk, our CFO. Thanks, as always, for joining us. We're really looking forward to updating you on our progress today.

和我一起參加的還有我們的共同創辦人兼執行長 Jason Kelly；以及我們的財務長 Mark Dmytruk。一如既往，感謝您的加入我們。我們非常期待今天向您通報我們的進展。

As a reminder, during the presentation today, we will be making forward-looking statements. These involve risks and uncertainties. So please refer to our filings with the SEC to learn more about these risks and uncertainties, including in our most recent 10-K.

提醒一下，在今天的演示中，我們將做出前瞻性的陳述。這些都涉及風險和不確定性。因此，請參閱我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，以了解有關這些風險和不確定性的更多信息，包括我們最新的 10-K 文件。

Today, in addition to updating you on the quarter and the full-year results, we're going to provide updates on our path towards adjusted EBITDA breakeven, as well as customer progress in our cell engineering business across both our services and tools offerings, and the latest offerings in our biosecurity business.

今天，除了向您更新本季和全年業績外，我們還將提供有關調整後 EBITDA 盈虧平衡的最新進展，以及我們在細胞工程業務（包括服務和工具產品）中的客戶進展情況，以及我們生物安全業務的最新產品。

As usual, we'll end with a Q&A session, and I'll take questions from analysts, investors, and the public. You can submit questions for that to us in advance via X, please tank your post with the #GinkgoResults, or e-mail us, our inbox is investors@ginkgobioworks.com. I'll be checking that throughout the call. All right. Over to you, Jason.

像往常一樣，我們將以問答環節結束，我將回答分析師、投資者和公眾的問題。您可以透過 X 提前向我們提交問題，請在您的貼文中新增 #GinkgoResults，或發送電子郵件給我們，我們的收件匣是 investors@ginkgobioworks.com。我將在整個通話過程中檢查這一點。好的。交給你了，傑森。

Thanks, Joseph, and thanks, everyone, for joining us. We always start with our mission of making biology easier to engineer. And similar to last quarter, our focus for that mission is on these three key objectives.

謝謝約瑟夫，也謝謝大家加入我們。我們的使命始終是讓生物學更容易工程化。與上一季類似，我們這次任務的重點是這三個關鍵目標。

First, we want to reach adjusted EBITDA breakeven while maintaining a cash margin of safety. And we ended this quarter with $562 million in cash and no bank debt and significantly exceeded our original cost-cutting target for 2024. And -- you're going to see this reflected in a dramatically reduced level of cash burn in Q4 versus Q3.

首先，我們希望在保持現金安全邊際的同時實現調整後的 EBITDA 損益兩平。本季結束時，我們擁有 5.62 億美元現金，沒有銀行債務，大大超出了我們原定的 2024 年成本削減目標。並且—您會看到第四季的現金消耗量與第三季相比大幅下降。

And I'm really happy to see this. A cash margin of safety is what protects can go from having to raise capital in conditions that aren't favorable, and we want to keep our cash war chest large while reducing cash spending and expanding our sources of revenue.

我很高興看到這一點。現金安全邊際可以防止在條件不利的情況下籌集資金，我們希望保持充足的現金儲備，同時減少現金支出並擴大收入來源。

This is a simple strategy, right? Like just drive the cost down and keep expanding, and we executed on it really well in the second half of 2024, and we will keep pushing on it in 2025. That is not changing.

這是一個簡單的策略，對吧？就像降低成本並不斷擴張一樣，我們在 2024 年下半年執行得非常好，我們將在 2025 年繼續努力。這一點沒有改變。

Second, while we cut costs, we need to keep serving our current customers and adding new customers. Q4 saw us achieve a record number of technical milestones in a single quarter, showing our team's ability to continue to deliver great new science for our customers. I'm really proud of that delivery across the team.

其次，在削減成本的同時，我們需要繼續服務現有客戶並增加新客戶。第四季度，我們在一個季度內實現了創紀錄的技術里程碑數量，這表明我們的團隊有能力繼續為客戶提供偉大的新科學成果。我為整個團隊的表現感到非常自豪。

Finally, we want to grow our cell engineering revenue and continue to expand our tools offerings, which I'm going to talk a lot more about in the strategic section. Okay. I'm excited to get into all of that.

最後，我們希望增加我們的細胞工程收入並繼續擴大我們的工具產品，我將在策略部分詳細討論這一點。好的。我很高興能夠參與其中。

But first, I want to hand it over to Mark to discuss the financial results for the quarter.

但首先，我想讓馬克討論本季的財務表現。

Thanks, Jason. I'll start with the Cell Engineering business. Cell Engineering revenue was $35 million in the fourth quarter of 2024, up 29% compared to the fourth quarter of 2023. This increase was primarily driven by growth with large biopharma customers and government accounts. partially offset by declines with smaller customers in the industrial biotech segments.

謝謝，傑森。我先從細胞工程業務開始。2024 年第四季，Cell Engineering 營收為 3,500 萬美元，較 2023 年第四季成長 29%。這一增長主要得益於大型生物製藥客戶和政府帳戶的成長。部分抵消了工業生物技術領域較小客戶的下滑。

As we've discussed previously, this customer mix shift has been a headwind to growth in prior quarters. And so we're very pleased to now see the positive impact of the shift in this quarter's revenue. On a full year basis, Cell Engineering services revenue was $174 million in 2024. And -- as a reminder, in the third quarter of 2024, Ginkgo recognized $45 million in noncash revenue from a release of deferred revenue relating to the mutual termination of a customer agreement we had with Motif FoodWorks, one of our platform ventures.

正如我們之前所討論的，客戶結構的轉變對前幾季的成長造成了阻礙。因此，我們很高興看到本季營收轉變帶來的正面影響。從全年來看，2024 年細胞工程服務收入為 1.74 億美元。並且—提醒一下，在 2024 年第三季度，Ginkgo 確認了 4,500 萬美元的非現金收入，這筆收入來自我們與平台企業之一 Motif FoodWorks 相互終止客戶協議而釋放的遞延收入。

Excluding this impact, cell engineering revenue was $129 million in 2024, down 10% compared to the full year of 2023. We -- this decrease was driven by the customer mix shift discussed previously, along with commercial changes related to the restructuring.

剔除此影響，2024 年細胞工程收入為 1.29 億美元，較 2023 年全年下降 10%。我們－這種下降是由於先前討論過的客戶結構變化以及與重組相關的商業變化所致。

In the fourth quarter of 2024, we supported a total of 138 active programs across 85 customers on the Cell Engineering platform. This represents a 5% increase in active programs year-over-year.

2024 年第四季度，我們在 Cell Engineering 平台上為 85 位客戶共 138 個活躍專案提供支援。這意味著活躍項目數量比去年同期增長了 5%。

As we discussed in our previous 2024 earnings calls, the nature of programs that we take on with our customers has evolved significantly following our adjustments to commercial terms and the launch of our tools offerings. As such, going forward, we are no longer going to report a new program metric. However, we are going to provide additional perspective on active programs in the quarter, which I will discuss in a moment.

正如我們在之前的 2024 年收益電話會議上所討論的那樣，隨著我們調整商業條款和推出工具產品，我們與客戶合作的專案的性質發生了重大變化。因此，今後我們將不再報告新的計劃指標。不過，我們將提供有關本季活躍計劃的更多觀點，我稍後會討論。

Before I do that, I will close out 2024 by noting that we added a total of 31 new programs and contracts in Q4 of 2024, of which 14 were generally comparable in size and scope to historically reported new programs and were included in the current active program count on the prior slide.

在此之前，我想在 2024 年結束時指出，我們在 2024 年第四季度總共增加了 31 個新項目和合同，其中 14 個在規模和範圍上與歷史報告的新項目大致相當，並包含在上一張幻燈片中的當前活躍項目數量中。

In addition, we commenced 17 other customer contracts in the quarter that represent a variety of small deal architypes. These are generally much smaller in scope and shorter in duration. We are very pleased that we've been able to continue the momentum with our biopharma customer base, including five new large pharma logos and seven new data points contracts.

此外，我們在本季度還簽訂了 17 份其他客戶合同，這些合約代表了各種小型交易類型。這些通常範圍要小得多，持續時間要短得多。我們非常高興能夠繼續保持與生物製藥客戶群的良好發展勢頭，其中包括五個新的大型製藥公司標誌和七個新的數據點合約。

Now going forward, we're going to provide you with a revenue-generating active program count metric that we think will be more useful to analysts that are using this to model revenue. This metric will include all programs that generated revenue in the quarter, including smaller programs that I refer to as other contracts on this slide.

現在，我們將為您提供一個創收活躍程式數量指標，我們認為這對於使用它來模擬收入的分析師更有用。該指標將包括本季產生收入的所有項目，包括我在此投影片中稱為其他合約的較小項目。

Further, in this metric, we will only include programs that were revenue generating in the quarter. So for example, at any point in time, we have a significant number of programs that are either just starting or are wrapping up.

此外，在此指標中，我們僅包括本季產生收入的項目。例如，在任何時間點，我們都有大量的專案剛開始或正在結束。

And so they aren't generating any meaningful revenue. We'll exclude those for you, which will give you a better indication of revenue per program in the quarter, and you can measure how that trends over time in a more meaningful way.

因此他們沒有產生任何有意義的收入。我們將為您排除這些因素，這將為您提供該季度每個專案收入的更好指示，並且您可以以更有意義的方式衡量其隨時間的變化趨勢。

In the appendix, we've provided you with a preliminary look at this new metric for the past four quarters as a reference, and we welcome your feedback.

在附錄中，我們為您提供了對過去四個季度這項新指標的初步了解，以供參考，歡迎您的回饋。

Now turning to Biosecurity. Our Biosecurity business generated $9 million of revenue in the fourth quarter of 2024 at a gross margin of 17%. Revenue and gross margin were down quarter-over-quarter, and as you'll note, lumpy during the course of the year due partly to the timing of signing of a customer contract in Q2 of this year.

現在轉向生物安全。我們的生物安全業務在 2024 年第四季創造了 900 萬美元的收入，毛利率為 17%。收入和毛利率環比下降，正如您所注意到的，全年收入和毛利率波動較大，部分原因是今年第二季簽署了客戶合約。

On a full-year basis, Biosecurity revenue for 2024 was $53 million, down 51% from $108 million in 2023. As a reminder, our K-12 COVID testing contracts ended in the third quarter of 2023 and -- and the business has now moved entirely towards building out both domestic and international infrastructure for Biosecurity.

從全年來看，2024 年生物安全收入為 5,300 萬美元，比 2023 年的 1.08 億美元下降 51%。提醒一下，我們的 K-12 COVID 測試合約於 2023 年第三季結束，業務現已完全轉向建立國內和國際生物安全基礎設施。

And now I'll provide more commentary on key items for the rest of the P&L. We've changed the presentation of this slide this quarter to align with our segment reporting disclosures. We believe this will give you more insight into the underlying profitability of our two segments.

現在我將對損益表其餘部分的關鍵項目提供更多評論。我們已更改本季此投影片的呈現方式，以符合我們的分部報告揭露。我們相信這將使您更深入地了解我們兩個部門的潛在盈利能力。

And specifically, we'll give you more information on the cost structure and how that is changing as we undertake our restructuring. A full reconciliation between segment operating loss, adjusted EBITDA and -- and GAAP net loss can be found in the appendix.

具體來說，我們將向您提供有關成本結構以及在我們進行重組時成本結構如何變化的更多資訊。附錄中可以找到分部營業虧損、調整後 EBITDA 和 GAAP 淨虧損之間的完整對帳。

Segment operating expenses. So starting with the more significant items in segment OpEx. In the fourth quarter of 2024 Cell Engineering, R&D expense decreased 31% from $73 million in the fourth quarter of 2023 to $50 million in the fourth quarter of 2024. And -- Cell Engineering G&A expense decreased 49% from $40 million in the fourth quarter of 2023 to $21 million in the fourth quarter of 2024. These decreases were driven by our restructuring efforts.

分部營業費用。因此，從部分營運支出中較重要的項目開始。2024 年第四季，Cell Engineering 的研發費用從 2023 年第四季的 7,300 萬美元下降 31% 至 2024 年第四季的 5,000 萬美元。並且——Cell Engineering 的 G&A 費用從 2023 年第四季的 4,000 萬美元下降 49% 至 2024 年第四季的 2,100 萬美元。這些減少是由我們的重組努力所造成的。

On a full-year basis, Cell Engineering R&D expense decreased from $336 million in 2023 to $272 million in 2024. And -- G&A expense decreased from $171 million in 2023 to $115 million in 2024.

從全年來看，Cell Engineering 的研發費用從 2023 年的 3.36 億美元減少到 2024 年的 2.72 億美元。並且——G&A 費用從 2023 年的 1.71 億美元減少到 2024 年的 1.15 億美元。

Net loss. So it is important to note that our net loss includes a number of noncash income and/or expenses as detailed more fully in our financial statements. Because of these noncash and other nonrecurring items, we believe adjusted EBITDA is a more indicative measure of our profitability.

淨虧損。因此，值得注意的是，我們的淨虧損包括一些非現金收入和/或支出，詳情請參閱我們的財務報表。由於這些非現金和其他非經常性項目，我們認為調整後的 EBITDA 更能反映我們的獲利能力。

And as noted, we are now showing you adjusted EBITDA at the segment level so that you can more clearly see the relative profitability of Cell Engineering and Biosecurity. The significant improvement in Cell Engineering segment operating loss in the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to the comparable prior year period was due to the previously discussed drivers of improved revenue and reduced operating expenses.

如上所述，我們現在向您展示細分市場的調整後 EBITDA，以便您可以更清楚地看到細胞工程和生物安全的相對盈利能力。2024 年第四季度，電池工程部門的營業虧損與去年同期相比顯著改善，這是由於先前討論過的收入增加和營業費用減少的驅動因素。

Moving further down the page, you'll note that total company adjusted EBITDA in the fourth quarter was negative $57 million, which was up from negative $101 million in the fourth quarter of 2023. The principal differences between segment operating loss and total company adjusted EBITDA, and -- in the fourth quarter relates to the carrying cost of excess leased space, which you can see was $9 million in Q4 and $26 million in the year.

繼續往下翻，您會注意到第四季公司調整後的 EBITDA 總額為負 5,700 萬美元，高於 2023 年第四季的負 1.01 億美元。第四季分部營業虧損與公司調整後 EBITDA 總額之間的主要差異與超額租賃空間的持有成本有關，您可以看到第四季度的持有成本為 900 萬美元，全年為 2600 萬美元。

This cost represents the base rent and other charges relating to lease space, which we are not occupying net of sublease income. We will continue to break that out for you going forward since that is a cash operating cost that is not related to driving revenue right now and can be potentially mitigated through subleasing.

此成本代表與租賃空間有關的基本租金和其他費用，扣除轉租收入後我們並未佔用這些空間。我們將在未來繼續為您分解這一點，因為這是與當前收入無關的現金營運成本，並且可以透過轉租來緩解。

On a full year basis, total Ginkgo adjusted EBITDA was negative $293 million, which was up from negative $365 million in 2023. This improvement in adjusted EBITDA can be attributed to the fact or the impact of the previously mentioned third quarter noncash deferred revenue release as well as the restructuring implemented over the last three quarters.

從全年來看，銀杏調整後的 EBITDA 總額為負 2.93 億美元，高於 2023 年的負 3.65 億美元。調整後 EBITDA 的改善可以歸因於前面提到的第三季非現金遞延收入釋放以及過去三個季度實施的重組的影響。

And finally, I'll just make one additional comment relating to cash burn in the quarter. Cash burn in the fourth quarter of 2024 was $55 million, down significantly from $114 million in the third quarter of 2024. We -- this significant decrease in cash burn sequentially was a result of the restructuring and it was further impacted positively by higher revenue, which was partly driven by the successful completion of a number of technical milestones in the quarter, as mentioned by Jason.

最後，我只想就本季的現金消耗發表一點補充評論。2024 年第四季的現金消耗為 5,500 萬美元，較 2024 年第三季的 1.14 億美元大幅下降。我們——現金消耗的環比大幅下降是重組的結果，也受到更高收入的正面影響，正如 Jason 所提到的，這部分是由於本季成功完成了一些技術里程碑。

We would further expect to reduce the cash burn run rate significantly from this level by the fourth quarter of 2025, and -- though we expect some lumpiness in the progression during the year due to timing of working capital and onetime payments. Jason will discuss our increased target for OpEx reductions later in the presentation.

我們進一步預計，到 2025 年第四季度，現金消耗率將從這一水平大幅降低，儘管我們預計，由於營運資金和一次性付款的時間安排，今年的進展將出現一些波動。Jason 將在稍後的示範中討論我們提高營運支出削減目標。

As we did last year, we'd also like to provide you with some updated data points relating to downstream value share. On the left-hand side of the chart, you can see that as of the end of 2024 we have the potential to earn up to $1.7 billion in milestone payments based on customer collaborations previously entered into, with the majority of those payments dependent on successful commercialization of a product. This figure does not include potential royalties.

正如我們去年所做的那樣，我們還想為您提供一些與下游價值份額相關的更新數據點。在圖表的左側，您可以看到，截至 2024 年底，我們有可能根據先前達成的客戶合作獲得高達 17 億美元的里程碑付款，其中大部分付款取決於產品的成功商業化。這個數字不包括潛在的版稅。

So on the right side of the page, we are showing you the full total of programs for which we currently have downstream value share potential, including those with royalties. While it is harder to estimate the total potential value on royalty deals, you'll see the volume of programs there remain substantial.

因此，在頁面的右側，我們向您展示了我們目前具有下游價值份額潛力的所有項目，包括那些有版稅的項目。儘管很難估計特許權使用費交易的總潛在價值，但您會發現其中的項目數量仍然很大。

You'll also see that the decrease in potential milestone payments was approximately $700 million when comparing 2024 to 2023. A -- we do expect reduction in milestones if a program doesn't meet a technical goal or a customer changes commercial direction.

您還會發現，與 2023 年相比，2024 年潛在的里程碑付款減少了約 7 億美元。答－如果某個專案沒有達到技術目標或客戶改變商業方向，我們確實預期里程碑數量會減少。

Previously, we made up for these decreases with new milestone-bearing programs. But as a result of the commercial changes we implemented in Q2 and our focus on tools offerings that generate near-term revenue, we did not book a significant amount of new potential milestones in the year.

此前，我們透過新的里程碑計畫彌補了這些減少。但由於我們在第二季度實施的商業變革以及我們對產生短期收入的工具產品的關注，我們在今年並沒有取得大量新的潛在里程碑。

Now I'd like to provide some commentary on our outlook for the full year 2025. Before I get into the Cell Engineering revenue numbers, there are two important points of context. Firstly, I want to reiterate that our primary objective is to reduce cash burn.

現在我想對我們對 2025 年全年的展望發表一些評論。在討論 Cell Engineering 的收入數字之前，有兩個重要的背景要點。首先，我想重申，我們的首要目標是減少現金消耗。

We like Ginkgo's competitive position and are very encouraged by what we're seeing with our tools offerings. However, we are still selling into a challenging biotech R&D market and are being diligent with respect to new business that we take on.

我們喜歡 Ginkgo 的競爭地位，並且對我們的工具產品的表現感到非常鼓舞。然而，我們仍在向充滿挑戰的生物技術研發市場銷售產品，並且對我們承接的新業務保持謹慎態度。

Secondly, the government segment has been a source of growth for us in the past year and our momentum there has been very strong. However, given current uncertainties in this area, we are baking that risk into the low end of our guidance.

其次，政府部門在過去一年中一直是我們的成長源泉，我們的發展勢頭非常強勁。然而，鑑於該領域目前的不確定性，我們將該風險納入指導的低端。

That said then, our Cell Engineering revenue guidance is a range of $110 million to $130 million. We believe we are taking a conservative approach in providing this guidance range. We could see potential upside to this range coming from our new tools offerings where we have a solid BD pipeline and as discussed earlier, closed a number of new biopharma deals in Q4.

話雖如此，我們的 Cell Engineering 營收預期是在 1.1 億至 1.3 億美元之間。我們認為我們在提供這項指導範圍時採取了保守的態度。我們可以看到，我們的新工具產品將為此範圍帶來潛在的上升空間，我們擁有堅實的 BD 管道，並且如前所述，我們在第四季度完成了多項新的生物製藥交易。

Our Biosecurity revenue guidance for 2025 is at least $50 million. As we have in the past, we are guiding to our approximate current level of contracted backlog for the year, including an expected midyear program renewal and have a pipeline of opportunities we are pursuing beyond that.

我們對 2025 年生物安全收入的預期是至少 5,000 萬美元。正如我們過去所做的那樣，我們正在指導今年合約積壓的大致水平，包括預期的年中計劃續簽，並且我們正在尋求一系列超越這一水平的機會。

Also to clarify, this business is almost entirely dependent on government funding, which is a risk we have been managing since we started operations in the Biosecurity space. And so we are providing guidance here under the assumption that our government contracts continue.

另外需要澄清的是，這項業務幾乎完全依賴政府資助，這是我們自開始在生物安全領域開展業務以來一直在管理的風險。因此，我們在此提供指導，是基於我們的政府合約繼續存在的假設。

And finally, we expect total revenue for the year 2025 to be in a range of $160 million to $180 million. In conclusion, we're pleased with our overall execution of the restructuring thus far as evidenced by the reduction in cash burn in Q4.

最後，我們預計 2025 年的總營收將在 1.6 億至 1.8 億美元之間。總之，我們對迄今為止重組的整體執行情況感到滿意，第四季現金消耗的減少就是明證。

And -- we are very encouraged by the early traction we are seeing in tools. However, we also acknowledge that we continue to operate in a very uncertain macro environment. We believe we are taking a prudent approach to managing both with our risks and growth opportunities along a path to adjusted EBITDA breakeven by the end of 2026 and maintaining a cash margin of safety.

並且——我們對工具中看到的早期發展趨勢感到非常鼓舞。然而，我們也承認，我們仍然在非常不確定的宏觀環境中運作。我們相信，我們正在採取審慎的方式來管理風險和成長機會，以便在 2026 年底之前實現調整後的 EBITDA 收支平衡並保持現金安全邊際。

And one final footnote. On the financial reporting front, I can confirm that we remediated our SOX material weakness and wanted to express my appreciation to the team for all the work that went into addressing that.

最後還有一個註腳。在財務報告方面，我可以確認我們已經糾正了 SOX 材料缺陷，並想對團隊為解決該問題所做的所有工作表示感謝。

So back over to you, Jason.

那麼回到你這裡，傑森。

Thanks, Mark. Similar to the last two quarters, I'm going to use the first strategic section to focus on Ginkgo's efforts to reduce costs and update you on our restructuring efforts. Next, I'll cover our expansion into life science tools and services. This is a big change we made last summer. We now have some data on how it's going.

謝謝，馬克。與前兩個季度類似，我將利用第一個策略部分來重點介紹銀杏降低成本的努力，並向您通報我們的重組工作。接下來，我將介紹我們在生命科學工具和服務方面的擴展。這是我們去年夏天做出的重大改變。我們現在有一些關於其進展的數據。

We're seeing a market trend in the biopharma industry towards needing more data for AI models where customers haven't been well served by traditional life science tools companies and CROs. And I think there's a nice opening for Ginkgo there.

我們看到生物製藥行業的市場趨勢是需要更多用於人工智慧模型的數據，而傳統的生命科學工具公司和 CRO 尚未為客戶提供良好的服務。我認為那裡對銀杏來說是一個很好的開始。

Finally, I'll share more details on the specific tools and service offerings in Ginkgo data points and Ginkgo automation, where we've been getting good traction with customers over the last six months.

最後，我將分享有關 Ginkgo 數據點和 Ginkgo 自動化中的具體工具和服務產品的更多詳細信息，在過去六個月中，我們在這些產品中獲得了良好的客戶反饋。

Okay. Let's get started. All right. So when we announced our restructuring less than a year ago, we set a $100 million spending cut target for 2024 with an additional $100 million reduction set for 2025. in our Q3 call last November, we reiterated those targets, having achieved a considerably accelerated site consolidation and cost takeout.

好的。讓我們開始吧。好的。因此，當我們在不到一年前宣布重組時，我們設定了 2024 年削減 1 億美元支出的目標，並為 2025 年額外削減 1 億美元。在去年 11 月的第三季電話會議上，我們重申了這些目標，並實現了顯著加快的站點整合和成本削減。

Today, we've achieved $190 million annualized run rate reduction through Q4 when compared to Q1, and -- and that's partially offset by a headwind where we have increased rent charges related to the Bio Fab 1 facility. And you can see that reflected in our quarterly cash burn in Q4 2024 being reduced down to $55 million.

今天，與第一季相比，我們第四季的年化運行率減少了 1.9 億美元，但這被我們增加與 Bio Fab 1 設施相關的租金費用這一不利因素部分抵消了。您可以看到，我們 2024 年第四季的季度現金消耗減少至 5,500 萬美元。

As I said, having a cash margin of safety is very important to me as that is how you avoid having to take on a dilutive fundraising when you don't want to and so I'm absolutely thrilled to see the progress on our cash burn here while still having over 600 -- or $560 million in cash and cash equivalents with no bank debt at the end of Q4.

正如我所說的，擁有現金安全邊際對我來說非常重要，因為這樣你就可以避免在你不想的時候進行稀釋性融資，因此我非常高興看到我們的現金消耗取得進展，同時在第四季度末仍然擁有超過 6 億美元——或 5.6 億美元的現金和現金等價物，沒有銀行債務。

We -- Among our peers, pursuing advanced technology and AI and biotech, we're in a really strong position, and we plan to keep it that way. I want to thank the Ginkgo team for the incredibly hard work in 2024, while undergoing a lot of change to get us to where we are today. There's still a lot of work to do in '25, but I do really like our position from here.

在追求先進技術、人工智慧和生物技術的同行中，我們處於非常強大的地位，我們計劃保持這種狀態。我要感謝 Ginkgo 團隊在 2024 年的辛勤工作，同時經歷了許多變革才使我們達到今天的水平。25 年還有很多工作要做，但我確實很喜歡我們現在的處境。

You can see also our progress reflected between Q1 and Q4 of 2024. We really like this chart comparing total revenue to cash expenses, and that's inclusive of the cost of sales. My goal in 2025, like I said, is keep this trend going.

您還可以看到我們在 2024 年第一季至第四季之間的進展。我們非常喜歡這張比較總收入和現金支出的圖表，其中包括銷售成本。正如我所說，我 2025 年的目標是維持這種趨勢。

As Mark mentioned, we are being conservative with our revenue guidance in '25, given uncertainty around government R&D funding, obviously, a lot of changes there. But we've already taken steps to further drop our cash expenses, and I'm hopeful we'll do even better than the $60 million annual improvement that we have as our target shown there.

正如馬克所提到的，考慮到政府研發資金的不確定性，顯然還有很多變化，我們對 25 年的收入預期持保守態度。但我們已經採取措施進一步降低現金支出，我希望我們能夠做得比我們設定的每年 6000 萬美元的目標更好。

Honestly, this is getting easier as we see what is working and not working throughout the business based on the changes we made last summer. We can move very quickly, at Ginkgo. We showed that in 2024, and we're on an even more solid footing now. So the rate that we can make changes should only improve in the following year.

老實說，這變得越來越容易，因為根據我們去年夏天所做的改變，我們看到了整個業務中哪些有效，哪些無效。在銀杏，我們可以行動得非常快。我們在 2024 年就證明了這一點，現在我們的基礎更加穩固。因此，我們做出改變的速度在接下來的一年只會提高。

I'm also really proud of the team for their quick work in spinning down and moving out of those various sites you see on this map, in particular, their work on the Lesaffre acquisition of Altar, ensure that we retain critical access to technologies, and overall, the operational team's ability to maintain customer delivery while moving equipment and people has been really impressive.

我也為團隊的快速工作感到自豪，他們迅速關閉並遷出您在這張地圖上看到的各個站點，特別是他們在 Lesaffre 收購 Altar 的工作，確保我們保留對技術的關鍵訪問權，並且總體而言，運營團隊在移動設備和人員的同時保持客戶交付的能力確實令人印象深刻。

So we were in too many sites. Those were stakes that we made over the past couple of years and being able to in the face of drawbacks and biotech move out of those quickly and consolidate around what was working, again, has been really impressive.

所以我們去過的站點太多了。這些都是我們在過去幾年中所做的賭注，面對不利因素和生物技術，我們能夠迅速擺脫這些不利因素，並鞏固有效的措施，這真的令人印象深刻。

I will say, please don't hesitate to reach out if you are growing biotech, looking for space in Cambridge or Boston. I am the friendliest biotech landlord here. We've been making headway on subleases, but we still have a lot of lab space available that we'd love to get you into.

我想說的是，如果您正在發展生物技術，並在劍橋或波士頓尋找空間，請不要猶豫與我們聯繫。我是這裡最友善的生技房東。我們在轉租方面取得了進展，但我們仍有許多可用的實驗室空間，我們很樂意讓您使用。

I want to note as well that despite our site consolidation, we still maintain technical and programmatic teaming and corporate entities in Europe that are at work and delivering on our European contracts, including a very exciting new one that I'll mention later today, the RANGER program.

我還想指出，儘管我們進行了站點整合，但我們仍然在歐洲保持技術和程序團隊以及企業實體，這些實體正在工作並履行我們的歐洲合同，其中包括一個我今天晚些時候會提到的非常令人興奮的新合同，即 RANGER 計劃。

Okay. All right. So let's move on to the next topic. All right. So I mentioned Ginkgo has been expanding outside of our original solutions business into tools and services. So I want to give a little more color on that for where we're headed in 2025. So the first bit here, as you can see, our historic solutions activities, we are really selling to the head of R&D of a large biopharma, right?

好的。好的。那麼讓我們繼續討論下一個主題。好的。我提到 Ginkgo 一直在從原有的解決方案業務擴展到工具和服務。因此，我想更詳細地闡述我們 2025 年的發展方向。因此，正如您所看到的，這裡的第一點是，我們的歷史解決方案活動實際上是向大型生物製藥公司的研發負責人銷售的，對嗎？

So this was a deal -- like the deals you would see negotiated at JPMorgan, they took a long time to close. They were large programs, multiyear big checks, and they included downstream value in the form of milestones or royalties.

所以這是一筆交易——就像你在摩根大通看到的談判交易一樣，它們需要很長時間才能完成。它們都是大型項目，多年的大支票，並且包括以里程碑或特許權使用費形式出現的下游價值。

The big change in 2024 was in addition, we're still doing those solutions deals, we started selling tools. And for tools, the customer could -- is not the head of R&D, but someone that reports to that reports to the head of R&D or made reports to the person that reports to the head of R&D.

2024 年的重大變化是，我們仍在進行這些解決方案交易，並開始銷售工具。對工具而言，客戶可能不是研發主管，而是向研發主管報告的人，或向研發主管報告的人報告的人。

And this is really -- if you look on this chart that I quite like, at the high end, we have a lot of customization and technical risk taken on by a biotech company. So an extreme form of this would be a small biotech in Cambridge developing a unique drug and hoping it to license it to a large biopharma partner. So that's asset licensing model is at the high end of technical risk, the high end of customization.

這確實是——如果你看我非常喜歡的這張圖表，你會發現在高端，我們作為一家生物技術公司承擔了很多客製化和技術風險。因此，一個極端的情況是，劍橋的一家小型生物技術公司正在開發一種獨特的藥物，並希望將其授權給大型生物製藥合作夥伴。因此，資產授權模式處於技術風險和客製化程度的高端。

You also get a lot of value for that, right? You can get bought out for -- you see these billion, multibillion-dollar deals for preclinical or at least clinically proven drug assets that are pre-commercial. As you go down that curve a bit, you got to our solutions business at Ginkgo. These are highly customized, right?

您也因此獲得了很多價值，對嗎？你可以被收購——你可以看到這些價值數十億美元的交易，這些交易針對的是處於臨床前或至少是經過臨床驗證的商業化前的藥物資產。當你沿著這條曲線往下走，你會看到 Ginkgo 的解決方案業務。這些都是高度客製化的，對嗎？

We knew these deals with Novo Nordisk and Merck and Pfizer and so on to support drug discovery or manufacturing, R&D. We are getting large milestones and royalties and Mark shared the aggregate numbers there, more than $1.7 billion of milestones and then a whole bunch of more royalties on top of that.

我們知道這些與諾和諾德、默克、輝瑞等公司達成的交易是為了支持藥物的發現或製造、研發。我們獲得了大量的里程碑和特許權使用費，馬克分享了總計數字，超過 17 億美元的里程碑，此外還有一大堆特許權使用費。

However, again, highly customized, and we are taking on some technical risk. We -- we met more technical milestones than ever in the last quarter, but sometimes we don't meet them. And then that hurts us on the revenue side. And certainly, we're dependent on customers to commercialize to see the really big value in the downstream. And so that's great.

但是，再次強調，高度客製化，我們承擔了一些技術風險。我們在上個季度實現了比以往更多的技術里程碑，但有時我們並沒有實現它們。這就會損害我們的收入。當然，我們依賴客戶進行商業化，才能看到下游的真正巨大價值。這太棒了。

I'll talk about -- talking about a second. It just takes a while to get to. That dotted line in the middle represents where you go to the point where you're not customizing as much, you're not taking technical risk and you lose that reach through into the customers' revenues on their products.

我將談論——談論第二個。只是需要花點時間才能到達。中間的虛線代表了您不再進行太多客製化、不再承擔技術風險，並且無法從客戶的產品收入中獲益。

But you get what amounts to a more easily scalable business. And so we're going to talk about data points, which is our business that's most akin to like a traditional CRO, contract research organization, generating large data assets for customers to order for -- often for AI model training.

但你得到的是更容易擴展的業務。因此，我們將討論資料點，這是我們最類似於傳統 CRO、合約研究組織的業務，它為客戶產生大量資料資產以供訂購——通常用於 AI 模型訓練。

I'm not going to talk about as much today, but we've released AI models up on the web that folks should try out. And then finally, the other business where we're seeing a lot of traction is we're an equipment business. We're selling our automation platform here at Ginkgo, and that has been going really, really well.

我今天不會談論太多，但我們已經在網路上發布了人工智慧模型，大家可以嘗試一下。最後，我們看到的另一個具有很大發展勢頭的業務是設備業務。我們正在 Ginkgo 銷售我們的自動化平台，而且進展非常順利。

So again, on the left-hand side, we've got larger but longer term potential upside where we get a piece of a customer's product, and we get to show every technology at Ginkgo rolled up to do that R&D project for a customer, and on the right-hand side, it's really the customer science is driving, we get near-term fee revenue, faster sales cycle and a much wider swath of customer.

因此，再說一次，在左側，我們擁有更大但更長期的潛在上升空間，我們可以獲得客戶產品的一部分，我們可以展示 Ginkgo 的每一項技術，為客戶完成研發項目，而在右側，真正推動的是客戶科學，我們獲得短期費用收入、更快的銷售週期和更廣泛的客戶群。

So I think these are very complementary. Us having the solutions business is really helping us sell tools. but they are very different. And so it was a risk jumping into this last year. And so I'm really happy to see that, that has paid off so well for us.

所以我認為它們是互補的。我們擁有的解決方案業務確實幫助我們銷售工具。但它們非常不同。因此，去年進入這個領域是有風險的。所以我很高興看到這一點，這給我們帶來瞭如此好的回報。

And the reason it has is that we're seeing customer interest in large data assets to enable AI models in the biotech industry. And if you go around and talk to heads of R&D or even the CEOs of pharma companies, you're going to hear that AI is one and two on their priority list, both internally to drive efficiency in the organization. also to help them develop new products.

原因在於，我們看到客戶對大數據資產感興趣，以便在生物技術產業中實現人工智慧模型。如果你四處走走並與研發部門的負責人甚至製藥公司的執行長交談，你就會聽到人工智慧在他們的優先事項中名列前茅，這兩者都是為了在內部提高組織的效率。並幫助他們開發新產品。

And this has really led kicked off by -- there's a partnership between Genentech and Recursion a few years ago that demonstrated the applicability of this, in particular, in the area of target discovery, which I'll talk about later in data points. But I think this owes a little bit of a kick in the butt for the industry, and you saw a lot more people getting interested in this. And as the AI models have improved from the tech industry, it's only driving more of that.

這確實引發了——幾年前，Genentech 和 Recursion 之間建立了合作關係，證明了這項技術的適用性，特別是在目標發現領域，我將在稍後的數據點中討論這一點。但我認為這對行業來說是一個小小的刺激，你會看到越來越多的人對此感興趣。隨著科技業人工智慧模型的不斷進步，這種趨勢也將進一步加劇。

So I want to frame like what does this mean for the life science tools industry. So I think on the left-hand side, you can see, and this is a slide I showed a couple of quarters ago as well, the traditional life science tools market, right?

所以我想闡述一下這對生命科學工具產業意味著什麼。所以我認為在左側，您可以看到，這也是我幾個季度前展示的幻燈片，即傳統生命科學工具市場，對嗎？

It brings a scientist at the bench it is maximally flexible. So that scientist has a hypothesis about an experiment, they want to run to answer a question that they have based on reading a lot of literature and previous results that they've seen in their work, and they want to run that perfect experiment, right?

它為工作台上的科學家提供了最大限度的靈活性。因此，科學家對一個實驗有一個假設，他們想要透過閱讀大量文獻和在工作中看到的先前結果來回答他們提出的問題，並且他們想要進行那個完美的實驗，對嗎？

And that perfect experiment, they want to run it tomorrow. So they need all these reagents to be able to show up on very short notice, and they need to have a bunch of equipment and assets available to them right on site and they want it to be exactly the experiment they want. So these huge catalogs from the big tools providers with thousands and thousands of SKUs so that, that scientists can do exactly what they want.

他們希望明天就能進行這個完美的實驗。因此，他們需要所有這些試劑能夠在很短的時間內到達，並且他們需要在現場準備大量設備和資產，並且他們希望這正是他們想要的實驗。大型工具供應商提供的這些龐大目錄包含成千上萬個 SKU，以便科學家可以做他們想做的事情。

By the way, I think this is a really important thing, right? I think we've developed all of our drugs, biotech and biological learnings have come from this tools infrastructure. It's just different than the infrastructure you need if you want to generate data for AI model training. And if you want to generate data for AI model training, what you really care about is the cost per data point generated, because these models get a lot better if they see a lot more data.

順便說一句，我認為這是一件非常重要的事情，對吧？我認為我們開發的所有藥物、生物技術和生物學知識都來自於這種工具基礎設施。如果您想要產生用於 AI 模型訓練的數據，它與您所需的基礎設施不同。如果你想為人工智慧模型訓練產生數據，你真正關心的是產生的每個數據點的成本，因為如果這些模型看到更多的數據，它們就會變得更好。

And so in that case, you don't want infinite flexibility, what you want is infinite scale with less flexibility. In fact, you want a lot of the experiments to be done similarly so that the data can be compared well. And so I think this classic research approach versus what we're calling a data foundry research approach.

因此在這種情況下，您不需要無限的靈活性，您想要的是無限的規模和較少的靈活性。事實上，您希望許多實驗能夠以類似的方式進行，以便能夠很好地比較數據。因此，我認為這種經典的研究方法與我們所謂的資料鑄造研究方法不同。

Again, I think they're very complementary. I don't think we're going to stop doing hypothesis-driven discovery-based science, but I think you're going to have a complement to it where we really need at all the major biopharma companies, all the major bio research institutes out there.

再次強調，我認為它們非常互補。我認為我們不會停止進行以假設為導向的基於發現的科學研究，但我認為所有主要的生物製藥公司、所有主要的生物研究機構都會對它進行補充，這是我們真正需要的。

You need the ability to generate large sets of data in order to train models and approach it with this AI-based approach.

您需要能夠產生大量數據，以便訓練模型並使用這種基於 AI 的方法來處理它。

So I think you're going to see a lot of energy in this direction. We think we're extremely well positioned for this at Ginkgo, but that is the underlying driver that's made adoption of our tools products go so well in the second half of last year.

所以我認為你會看到這個方向上的大量能量。我們認為 Ginkgo 在這方面已經做好了充分的準備，但這正是去年下半年我們的工具產品得到如此廣泛採用的根本驅動力。

Okay. So now I want to talk a bit more about the specific the two products where we've seen the most traction, which is our data points product and our automation product. So if you go to data points here. The very first thing I'll point out is this is a different business model than we have in our solutions. So when customers are seeing our data points offering, they own all the intellectual property.

好的。所以現在我想更詳細地談談我們最受關注的兩款產品，即我們的數據點產品和自動化產品。所以如果你去這裡的數據點。我首先要指出的是，這是一種與我們的解決方案不同的商業模式。因此，當客戶看到我們提供的數據點時，他們擁有所有智慧財產權。

There is no royalties. There's no milestones. We're really generating large data assets on a fee-for-service basis for those customers.

沒有版稅。沒有里程碑。我們確實在為這些客戶以收費服務的方式產生大量資料資產。

There's going to be two data points products that are already launched, the Functional Genomics and Antibody Developability. So I'll talk about functional genomics. First, this is really exciting. So this is pretty similar in spirit to what I mentioned with that Genentech Recursion partnership where you're really using AI models to do target discovery, to find new targets to develop drugs against in disease models.

即將推出的兩款數據點產品是功能基因組學和抗體可開發性。所以我將談論功能基因組學。首先，這確實令人興奮。因此，這在精神上與我提到的 Genentech Recursion 合作夥伴關係非常相似，您實際上是在使用 AI 模型進行目標發現，在疾病模型中找到開發藥物的新目標。

And often a customer will have for example, a cell type that they may be developed in-house that's relevant to their disease or maybe they want to take a standard one that's used out in the academic literature and they want to perturb that cell type. And what I mean by perturb is they want to either hit it with a chemical library, so think 10,000 or 30,000 chemicals that they might have in a compound library or they want to perturb it genetically.

例如，客戶通常會擁有一種他們內部開發的與他們的疾病相關的細胞類型，或者他們可能想要採用學術文獻中使用的標準細胞類型，並且他們想要擾亂該細胞類型。我所說的擾動是指他們要么想用化學庫來幹擾它，所以想想他們可能在化合物庫中擁有的 10,000 或 30,000 種化學物質，要么他們想從基因上擾動它。

In other words, they want to make CRISPR knockout of 1,000, maybe 1,000, maybe 10,000 genes in that post cell. And each time you knock out one gene or hit it with a compound, you would like that cell to be in a well. And then you would like to read out a high complexity measurement on the performance of that cell. And we have a few different types of measurements we can do, but the most popular so far has been transcriptomics.

換句話說，他們想透過 CRISPR 敲除該後細胞中的 1,000 個、也許 1,000 個、也許 10,000 個基因。每次你敲除一個基因或用化合物攻擊它時，你都會希望那個細胞處於一個洞中。然後，您想要讀出有關該單元效能的高複雜度測量值。我們可以進行幾種不同類型的測量，但迄今為止最受歡迎的是轉錄組學。

And so we are able to give you a readout of the transcriptomic profile, but we can also do high imagery, both cell painting and Brightfield on that cell to give you back those many thousands of cells with these high content outputs.

因此，我們不僅可以為您提供轉錄組譜的讀數，還可以進行高影像處理，包括對該細胞進行細胞繪畫和明場成像，從而為您提供具有高內容輸出的數千個細胞。

We've done this now in 100 different human cell types that we've worked with at Ginkgo, but you can see the ones that have already been onboarded for that high content transcriptomics drug seek on the left there, that we've been doing for customers, skeletal myoblasts, normal skin fibroblasts, HeLa cells, CAR-T cells, so on and so forth.

目前，我們已經在 Ginkgo 研究過的 100 種不同人類細胞類型中完成了這項工作，但您可以在左側看到那些已經加入高內涵轉錄組學藥物搜尋的細胞，這些細胞是我們為客戶進行的，包括骨骼成肌細胞、正常皮膚成纖維細胞、HeLa 細胞、CAR-T 細胞等等。

And we don't really have an issue bringing cells on that. We've got a really good hit rate doing that. So again, we're happy to work with customer cells or cells that we have here at Ginkgo.

我們確實不存在將細胞帶上去的問題。我們這樣做的命中率確實很高。因此，我們很高興與客戶細胞或 Ginkgo 的細胞合作。

Also, I think that people have really liked is we've just gone ahead and put some data sets that we paid for and developed here at Ginkgo just online so that folks AI and ML teams can just work with them and see the format of data that you get out of data points.

此外，我認為人們真正喜歡的是，我們剛剛把一些我們在 Ginkgo 付費開發並發布的數據集放到了網上，這樣 AI 和 ML 團隊就可以使用它們，並查看從數據點中獲取的數據格式。

And so I'll draw your attention to the GDP X2 data set. It's our biggest data set we've launched is nearly 1 terabyte of data. There's 85 chemical compounds here. I think six or seven of them are controls and the rest are drug compounds.

因此，我想提請大家關注 GDP X2 資料集。這是我們推出的最大的資料集，資料量接近 1TB。這裡有 85 種化合物。我認為其中六、七個是對照，其餘的都是藥物化合物。

We then hit four different cell types with six different concentrations of these drugs and four replicates of that, again, in 384-well plates, and then we do a transcriptomic readout of that. We put all that data online. It's about 200 gig per cell type across those cells.

然後，我們用六種不同濃度的藥物對四種不同類型的細胞進行處理，並在 384 孔板中進行四次重複，然後對其進行轉錄組讀數。我們將所有資料都放到網路上了。這些細胞中每種細胞類型大約有 200 GB。

And so download it. You can hit that QR code, download and play around with it. And that's been a really good way to bring in new customers for that product. It shows people exactly what they're going to get.

然後下載它。您可以點擊該二維碼，下載並試用。這確實是為該產品吸引新客戶的好方法。它向人們準確地展示了他們將會得到什麼。

The next product I'll talk about in data points is our Antibody Devailability product. Here are the ideas you can send us 100, you can say it's 1,000 antibody sequences. We'll synthesize, express those antibodies, and then run a battery of developability assays on them. And so you can see a list here, but these are things like thermostability and heparin binding and polyspecificity.

我將在數據點中討論的下一個產品是我們的抗體失效產品。以下是您可以發送給我們 100 個想法，您可以說這是 1,000 個抗體序列。我們將合成、表達這些抗體，然後對它們進行一系列可開發性測試。您可以在這裡看到一個列表，這些是諸如熱穩定性、肝素結合和多特異性之類的東西。

Some things are really complex, difficult to run assays. And so being able to get these at a throughput of thousands and get that data back to you again in a very clean AI, ML ready format over the cloud, I think, is a unique offering in the market. And so we're really excited to have that out there, and we've seen good uptake.

有些事情確實很複雜，很難進行分析。因此，我認為，能夠以數千的吞吐量獲取這些數據，並透過雲端以非常乾淨的 AI、ML 就緒格式將這些數據傳回給您，這是市場上獨一無二的產品。因此，我們非常高興能夠推出這項產品，並且我們已經看到了良好的反響。

And to give you a sense of timing and what programs look like. These are just two example projects. The first would be an oncology target ID project where you could see the types of cells that we would go after there. And this is 2,000 compounds in five different cell lines, that's a 10- to 11-week project, then you get that data right back.

並讓您了解時間安排和程序的樣子。這只是兩個範例項目。第一個是腫瘤學目標 ID 項目，您可以在其中看到我們將要追蹤的細胞類型。這是五種不同細胞系中的 2,000 種化合物，這是一個為期 10 到 11 週的項目，然後您就可以立即獲得數據。

The next one over would be for an Alzheimer's target ID here interested in a genetic pergabation. So doing those CRISPR knockouts in this case of 1,000 genes across three cell types, and that's a 9- to 10-week return on that data asset. You can see on the right-hand side, the illustration of the different types of data formats that come back to you.

下一個是針對阿茲海默症的目標 ID，這裡對基因普查感興趣。因此，在這種情況下對三種細胞類型的 1,000 個基因進行 CRISPR 敲除，就可以在 9 到 10 週內獲得該資料資產的回報。您可以在右側看到傳回給您的不同類型資料格式的圖示。

So again, really excited about this. The only thing I will mention, coming out next will be RNA data services, and we also recently released an AI models. So you can see the types of design tools that you can generate by using these types of data assets. But again, this is something that will be coming up, and we encourage folks that are working in the RNA, AI space or RNA drug discovery, if they're interested to give us a call, it will be exactly the same as the other two offerings in terms of IP rights and no royalties fee for service. So, if you're looking for large data sets and RNA, also give us a call in addition to the Functional Genomics and antibodies.

所以再次強調，我對此感到非常興奮。我唯一要提到的是，接下來將推出 RNA 數據服務，而我們最近也發布了 AI 模型。因此，您可以看到使用這些類型的資料資產可以產生的設計工具類型。但再說一次，這是即將發生的事情，我們鼓勵那些在 RNA、AI 領域或 RNA 藥物發現領域工作的人們，如果他們有興趣給我們打電話，它將與其他兩個產品在知識產權方面完全相同，並且不收取服務費。因此，如果您正在尋找大型資料集和 RNA，除了功能基因組學和抗體之外，您也可以打電話給我們。

Okay. So that's what I want to say on data points, and we move on next to Ginkgo Automation. I came -- I was in, I guess, near the end of January in San Diego for the Society of Lab Automation and screening/conference. And it was really exciting to be there because there's actually a ton of interest in our reconfigurable automation cards, our rack technology.

好的。這就是我想就數據點說的，接下來我們繼續討論銀杏自動化。我來的時候——我想，大概是在一月底，去聖地牙哥參加實驗室自動化協會和篩選/會議。來到這裡真的非常令人興奮，因為大家其實對我們的可重構自動化卡和機架技術非常感興趣。

You might remember, this came in through an acquisition of Zymergen a few years ago. And this is one of the big reasons we acquired that company was we felt that they had really unique automation assets. This has been started I want to say, seven or eight years ago now. And then they had a previous generation of these cards were available when we acquired Zymergen over the last years.

您可能還記得，這是幾年前透過收購 Zymergen 實現的。這是我們收購該公司的一個重要原因，因為我們覺得他們擁有真正獨特的自動化資產。我想說，這件事從七、八年前就開始了。當我們在過去幾年收購 Zymergen 時，他們已經推出了上一代卡片。

A lot more work has gone into making it simpler, easier to manufacture, this new generation of the carts since we're really happy to launch them at SLAS and get the reception.

我們非常高興在 SLAS 上推出新一代推車並獲得了廣泛好評，為此我們投入了大量的工作，使它們變得更簡單、更易於製造。

Just so you understand how these work. We have inside the cart a piece of laboratory equipment. So this is coming from any lab vendor you want, right? So there's a piece of lab equipment that's been developed at the lab bench for the lab bench and then there's a robotic arm, okay? And then there's a piece of magnetics called Magna Motion Track, which basically allows you to move a lab plate along a rail, right?

只是為了讓您了解它們是如何工作的。我們的推車裡有一件實驗室設備。所以這是來自您想要的任何實驗室供應商，對嗎？因此，在實驗台上為實驗台開發了一件實驗室設備，然後還有一個機械手臂，好嗎？還有一種叫做 Magna Motion Track 的磁力裝置，它基本上可以讓你沿著軌道移動實驗室板，對嗎？

And that's all in the cart, all right, including the rail.

這些都是在車上的東西，包括欄桿。

And then what you can do is you can stitch parts together, you can see three of them put together in this image tier and the samples can move to any one of the three arms on those three cards and then get delivered to the piece of equipment. -- okay, inside that part.

然後你可以將各個部分拼接在一起，你可以看到其中三個部分放在這個圖像層中，並且樣本可以移動到這三張卡片上的三個臂中的任何一個，然後傳送到設備上。 ——好的，在那部分裡面。

And then importantly, the equipment is connected. There's a lot of electronics hardware in the bottom of the cart and all of that goes back to our cloud software. So we can control both the delivery of the samples, the arm putting the sample on to the equipment and then the equipment itself is controlled by our software.

然後重要的是，設備已連接。購物車底部有很多電子硬件，所有這些都回到了我們的雲端軟體。因此，我們可以控製樣品的輸送、將樣品放到設備上的手臂，然後設備本身就由我們的軟體控制。

And you can see we're rapidly adding new off-the-shelf hardware integrations. In other words, these are pieces of equipment that we've already put in the racks either based on customer interest or Ginkgo interest, because we are users of these systems and they're already plugged into the software.

您可以看到我們正在快速添加新的現成硬體整合。換句話說，這些設備是我們已經根據客戶興趣或 Ginkgo 興趣放入機架中的，因為我們是這些系統的用戶，而且它們已經插入軟體中。

We're adding new things to this all the time. So if you're interested in integrated automation and a piece of equipment you want is not on this list, just let us know, and we'll get it at it.

我們一直在添加新內容。因此，如果您對整合自動化感興趣，而您想要的設備不在該清單中，請告訴我們，我們將為您提供協助。

We did -- so prior to acquiring Zymergen, they had actually started to sell this hardware in my infinite wisdom, I stopped them from selling -- Ginkgo from selling that automation once we acquired the company. happy to be doing that now. And -- but in the meantime, it was actually sold to both the National Lab and a pharma start-up called Ogden. And Ogden is a good case study. I mean this is -- like it's about a 80-person, 100 person company.

我們確實這樣做了——所以在收購 Zymergen 之前，他們實際上已經開始銷售這種硬體了，以我的無限智慧，我阻止他們銷售——一旦我們收購了這家公司，Ginkgo 就停止銷售這種自動化設備。我很高興現在能這樣做。但同時，它實際上被出售給了國家實驗室和一家名為奧格登的製藥新創公司。奧格登就是一個很好的案例。我的意思是——這就像是一家擁有 80 人、100 人的公司。

And they have a very small automation teams like one automation engineer and a couple of operators and they're running, and this is numbers that they've shared 400,000 samples a month, recently hitting 150,000 samples a week. This is a 7x throughput increase over their manual processes and an 88% reduction in hands-on time.

他們有一個非常小的自動化團隊，例如一名自動化工程師和幾名操作員，他們正在運行，這些數字是他們每月共享 400,000 個樣本，最近達到每週 150,000 個樣本。與手動流程相比，吞吐量提高了 7 倍，動手時間減少了 88%。

And it's let that lean team really be able to generate scale of automation or scale of data generation that would traditionally require a pretty large dedicated automation team and a work cell that's designed to really do one very specific reaction. And in this case, actually to do a number of different things.

它讓精益團隊真正能夠實現大規模的自動化或數據生成，而這在傳統上需要一個相當大的專門的自動化團隊和一個專門用於執行一項非常具體的反應的工作單元。在這種情況下，實際上要做許多不同的事情。

You can also see our setup here in Boston, unique among automation equipment vendors, Ginkgo uses our own automation. So because of our solutions business, and because of data points, we do a lot of biotech R&D here in our facility in Boston.

您還可以看到我們在波士頓的設置，在自動化設備供應商中，Ginkgo 是獨一無二的，它使用我們自己的自動化設備。因此，由於我們的解決方案業務和數據點，我們在波士頓的工廠進行了大量生物技術研發。

So these you can see these are actually the older generation of the automation carts that we have been bringing in to Ginkgo Boston over the last couple of years since the Zymergen acquisition.

所以，您可以看到，這些實際上是自 Zymergen 收購以來我們在過去幾年中引入 Ginkgo Boston 的老一代自動化推車。

And this is now the schematic of what all the different pieces of equipment are in our set up here in Boston. And what's really neat about it is we originally aimed this to do NGS library prep. That was the first thing that was running on the Rack automation. But then we were able to add DNA assembly and PCR prep, and -- all of the same system by just adding more pieces of equipment Lego block-style onto those rails.

這就是我們在波士頓設置的所有不同設備的示意圖。真正巧妙的是，我們最初的目標是進行 NGS 文庫準備。這是在 Rack 自動化上運行的第一件事。但隨後，我們能夠添加 DNA 組裝和 PCR 製備，並且——所有這些都透過在這些軌道上以樂高積木的方式添加更多設備來實現。

And this is something that people are really excited about it las.t because the traditional integrated automation vendors basically sell you a one-off custom engineering project. You're like I want a high throughput screening set up to look for, whatever, a drug compound. This is the asset I want to run. I want to run $100,000 a week. Okay, great.

這是人們最後真正興奮的事情，因為傳統的整合自動化供應商基本上向您出售一次性客製化工程專案。你就像我想要一個高通量篩選裝置來尋找藥物化合物。這是我想要運行的資產。我想每週賺 10 萬美元。好的，太好了。

You need this equipment. There's a whole 3D file. There's a custom software build and everything is built to really do that one set up and then it rolls out. months later.

你需要這個設備。有一個完整的 3D 檔案。有一個定制的軟體構建，所有內容都是為了真正完成那個設置而構建的，然後它就會推出。幾個月後。

And then if two years later, say you change your mind and want a different protocol running on there. you basically are scrapping the thing to build a new one. And so whereas with the racks, we've been able to expand the system now several times to add new workflows onto one big system here in Boston. And so that is a unique selling prop that folks were really excited about at SLAS.

然後，如果兩年後你改變主意並希望在那裡運行不同的協議。你基本上是在廢棄舊東西來建造新東西。因此，有了機架，我們現在能夠多次擴展系統，將新的工作流程添加到波士頓的一個大型系統上。因此，這是一個獨特的銷售道具，SLAS 的人們對此感到非常興奮。

As you can see as our booth at SLAS. One thing I'll mention is because we decided like midyear to start selling the equipment directly, we were like late to signing up at SLAS. Our booth was like at the back, next to the bathrooms and it was mobbed the entire time. So I do think people are really excited about this idea of modularity built into the hardware itself.

正如您在 SLAS 看到的我們的展位。我要提到的一件事是，因為我們在年中決定開始直接銷售設備，所以我們在 SLAS 簽約的時間有點晚。我們的攤位位於後面，靠近浴室，一直被圍得水洩不通。所以我確實認為人們對將模組化融入硬體本身的想法感到非常興奮。

Okay. So this isn't like there's an improvement in software or something else, these carts took a ton of physical engineering effort for us to get them to the place they are today where we can just rapidly add them together. And to give you a sense of how rapid up at the top right, Recursion had a party at JPMorgan and they were nice enough to invite us to have our automation there.

好的。所以這並不像軟體或其他方面的改進，這些推車花費了我們大量的物理工程努力才達到今天的水平，我們可以快速地將它們組合在一起。為了讓大家了解右上角的速度有多快，Recursion 在摩根大通舉辦了一個派對，他們很好心地邀請我們在那裡進行自動化測試。

And so there's a cocktail party, we actually set those rack carts up that afternoon and had the system running, moving plates around, getting picked up, put on to the equipment all just in a few hours. And so that type of speed of a build-out is really enabled by the modular automation.

所以有一個雞尾酒會，我們實際上在那天下午設置了那些貨架推車，並讓系統運行起來，移動盤子，拿起盤子，放到設備上，所有這些都只用了幾個小時。因此，這種建造速度實際上是透過模組化自動化實現的。

I don't think people need to set up an automation system in three hours, but it's nice to know that you can and importantly, it's nice to know and really economically impactful that you can expand and adjust and change it. The idea I'd like to describe it as is an automation for rather than an automation work cell.

我認為人們不需要在三個小時內建立一個自動化系統，但很高興知道你可以做到這一點，而且重要的是，很高興知道你可以擴展、調整和改變它，並且確實具有經濟影響力。我想將其描述為一種自動化，而不是自動化工作單元。

So instead of doing one thing. It's really an automation site that you're going to expand and grow as you need new AI protocols or whatever you need to do in a high throughput at your company or a university.

所以不要只做一件事。它實際上是一個自動化站點，當您需要新的 AI 協議或需要在公司或大學中以高吞吐量執行的任何事情時，您可以擴展和發展它。

Speaking of selling systems. So we just announced back at the end of January that we sold a system to Great Lakes Bioenergy Research Center. Really excited about this. super excited to see the systems going out in a while. We have a great pipeline, both before but importantly, after SLAS, a ton of people interested in evaluating these systems now.

說到銷售系統。因此，我們在一月底才宣布，我們向五大湖生物能源研究中心出售了一套系統。我對此真的很興奮。非常高興看到系統在一段時間內正常運作。我們擁有出色的管道，不僅在 SLAS 之前，更重要的是在 SLAS 之後，現在有大量的人對評估這些系統感興趣。

So, please reach out to us. If you're interested in either planning to currently build an automation work cell or this idea of automation cores is of interest to you.

因此，請聯繫我們。如果您有興趣計劃目前建立一個自動化工作單元，或者您對這個自動化核心的想法感興趣。

I'm not going to get into it today, but all of the software that operates the rack, it's cloud-based. We have a constraint-based scheduler, which you really think is leading in the industry. We have a form -- we basically monitor with cameras all the systems, and we can do a lot of added distance debugging, not just of the tracks and the arms, but also the equipment itself on the system. That's really neat and early customers have liked that.

我今天不打算深入討論這個問題，但是操作機架的所有軟體都是基於雲端的。我們有一個基於約束的調度程序，你真的認為它在業界處於領先地位。我們有一種形式——我們基本上用攝影機監控所有系統，並且我們可以做很多附加距離調試，不僅是軌道和臂，還有系統上的設備本身。這確實很棒，早期的客戶都很喜歡。

And the last thing I'll say is, look, the big dream here on this stuff is that this could become a horizontal platform that standardizes integrated lab automation across the industry. So one of the things I'm seeing is you have all these tech folks that are really excited about AI, applying AI to science and biotechnology and they run into this issue that there's not a lot of data, number one, and so they want to be able to generate more data, they go look at how data is generated. It's very expensive and done by hand, and they're immediately jumped to the idea that, well, why don't we use robots? Why don't we automate this?

我最後要說的是，看，這個東西的最大夢想是它可以成為一個橫向平台，標準化整個產業的整合實驗室自動化。因此，我看到的情況是，所有這些技術人員都對人工智慧非常感興趣，將人工智慧應用於科學和生物技術，但他們遇到的問題是，首先，數據量不大，所以他們希望能夠產生更多的數據，他們去研究數據是如何產生的。它非常昂貴並且需要手動完成，所以他們立即想到，為什麼我們不使用機器人？我們為什麼不實現自動化呢？

And the big challenge is there's just so much variability in the work of doing science. And so I think as an industry, we need to start to come up with standards that allow us to modularize equipment, make it all be easy to connect, yeah, at the software level, but frankly, software is easy. It needs to be easy to connect at the hardware level. And that is what the racks do. And I think they're going to be ahead and really excited about it.

最大的挑戰是科學工作中存在太多的可變性。因此我認為作為一個行業，我們需要開始製定標準，使我們能夠模組化設備，使所有設備都易於連接，是的，在軟體層面，但坦白說，軟體很容易。它需要在硬體層面上易於連接。這就是架子的作用。我認為他們會領先並對此感到非常興奮。

Okay. The last thing I want to talk about is we're going to have a ton of time today to talk about Biosecurity in general, but we are getting started on some very exciting Biosecurity work funded by the European health and digital executive agency, HaDEA, through the EU for Health program linked to the key priorities of the Health Emergency Preparedness and Response Authority, HERA, at the European Commission.

好的。我最後想談的是，今天我們將有大量的時間來討論生物安全的總體情況，但我們即將開始開展一些非常令人興奮的生物安全工作，這些工作由歐洲衛生和數字執行機構 HaDEA 通過歐盟健康計劃資助，與歐盟委員會衛生應急準備和響應局 (HERA) 的主要優先事項相關。

We'll be leading up an international consortium for a project worth up to EUR24 million to make what I've been thinking of as like a bit of a Star Trek nerd -- tried porter for disease. And so the idea here is to have point of care sequencing and metagenomic NGS available to look and say, hey, I'm sick, what virus do I have?

我們將領導一個國際財團開展一項價值高達 2400 萬歐元的項目，以實現我一直認為的有點像星際迷航書呆子所想的——用於治療疾病的搬運工。因此，這裡的想法是，透過即時護理定序和宏基因組 NGS 來查看並判斷，嘿，我生病了，我感染了什麼病毒？

And the best way to do that would just be to look at the genome and today, that's not really available. There's too many steps between that sample and you're actually getting the result. And so it's not really point of care. And so the idea here is could we start to build out some of those technologies.

而做到這一點的最好方法就是查看基因組，但目前這還無法實現。從該樣本到您實際獲得結果之間存在太多步驟。所以這並不是真正需要關注的重點。所以這裡的想法是我們能否開始建造其中的一些技術。

So I think this is really neat, and this is ultimately the direction that Biosecurity needs to go in, right? Like eventually, Biosecurity should feel almost like a smoke detector, right? Like I would like to know if there's Ebola in this room right now, that should set off an alarm, just as much as I would like to know if there was smoke.

所以我認為這真的很棒，這最終是生物安全需要發展的方向，對嗎？最終，生物安全應該感覺像煙霧偵測器一樣，對嗎？就像我想知道現在這個房間裡是否有伊波拉病毒，這應該會引起警報，就像我想知道是否有菸一樣。

And so that really requires a lot of breakthroughs over time and being able to monitor circulating DNA and viruses and so on. And I think it is technically feasible, but it's a lot of engineering work, and I'm excited to be kicking off that project in Europe.

因此，這確實需要隨著時間的推移取得許多突破，並能夠監測循環 DNA 和病毒等。我認為這在技術上是可行的，但需要大量的工程工作，我很高興能在歐洲啟動這個計畫。

Okay. So in conclusion, I'm extremely proud of our execution this quarter as we continue to cut back our costs, while still delivering on our revenue targets. We continuously deliver for customers across all our offerings, and I'm excited for the opportunity we have ahead of us as we continue to strive towards adjusted EBITDA breakeven by mid-2026.

好的。總而言之，我對本季的業績感到非常自豪，因為我們繼續削減成本，同時仍然實現我們的收入目標。我們持續為客戶提供所有產品，我對我們面臨的機會感到興奮，我們將繼續努力在 2026 年中期實現調整後的 EBITDA 收支平衡。

All right. Now I'm going to hand it back to Joseph for Q&A.

好的。現在我要把話題交還給約瑟問答。

Great. Thanks so much, Jason. As usual, for the Q&A, we'll start with a question from the public.

偉大的。非常感謝，傑森。像往常一樣，在問答環節，我們將從公眾提出的問題開始。

(Event Instructions) Thanks, everybody.

（活動說明）謝謝大家。

All right. Let's get started with a question from X. So this was in response to our post. It comes from [Bizbee]. The question is, -- what are the ideal customer personas Ginkgo needs to close for new client acquisition And what functional group is the ideal point of entry within these prospects, i.e., C-suite, R&D, strategy, product development?

好的。讓我們從 X 的一個問題開始。這是對我們貼文的回應。它來自[比茲比]。問題是——Ginkgo 需要接近哪些理想的客戶角色才能獲得新客戶？這些潛在客戶中，哪個職能組是理想的切入點，即高階主管、研發、策略、產品開發？

I'll go with -- I saw Jason's hand up first after that

我會同意——在那之後我首先看到傑森舉手

Yeah, happy to take that. Yeah, this is actually a key strength at Ginkgo, just given our experience in the solutions business. We've engage with folks all around the R&D stack in these companies. So the short answer is it varies depending on what we're selling.

是的，很高興接受這個。是的，鑑於我們在解決方案業務方面的經驗，這實際上是 Ginkgo 的關鍵優勢。我們與這些公司的研發部門的全體人員進行了接觸。所以簡短的回答是，這取決於我們銷售的產品。

So a solutions deal itself, Basically, our ideal customer persona there is the head of R&D, if it's a large biotech, biopharma like a Novo Nordisk or a Merck. And if it's a small biotech, it's the CEO because we are doing basically an outsourced research project. We're almost like an outsourced R&D team for that R&D leader.

因此，對於解決方案交易本身而言，基本上，如果是大型生技公司、生物製藥公司（如諾和諾德或默克），我們理想的客戶角色就是研發主管。如果是一家小型生物技術公司，那麼就是首席執行官，因為我們基本上是在進行外包研究專案。我們幾乎就像是研發領導的外包研發團隊。

If we're selling data points, it's going to, if it's a drug company, really a lead for a drug program. And so that means there's a lot more of those than heads of R&D. So that's exciting to me. It gives us a wider set of folks to engage with, but they're still like one or two levels below that head of R&D.

如果我們出售數據點，如果它是一家製藥公司，那麼它實際上就是一個藥物項目的線索。這意味著這樣的人比研發主管的數量多得多。這對我來說很令人興奮。它為我們提供了更廣泛的接觸對象，但他們仍然比研發主管低一到兩個等級。

And then finally, if it's automation, it's the folks that are at that SLAS meeting. It's really the automation leads in these companies who are usually responsible for building out a new work cell or integrated automation setup.

最後，如果是自動化，那就是參加 SLAS 會議的人。這些公司中的自動化主管通常負責建立新的工作單元或整合自動化設定。

That's what I think that's going to change over time. Like knocking I'm optimistic that the racks are such an innovation in the industry that we could ultimately see it just requiring the addition of a new cart to an automation core to bring online a whole new workflow. And so then you might hear from just someone on the technical team who wants to automate something and they give us a call to add that piece of equipment to their existing core.

我認為隨著時間的推移這種情況會改變。就像敲門一樣，我很樂觀地認為，貨架是行業中的一項創新，我們最終可以看到它只需要在自動化核心中添加一個新的推車就可以實現全新的工作流程。然後你可能會聽到技術團隊中某個人想要實現某些設備的自動化，然後他們打電話給我們，要求將該設備添加到他們現有的核心中。

But for today, when we're doing these first sales, it's really the heads of automation at these various large and midsized companies.

但就今天而言，當我們進行這些首次銷售時，真正的銷售對像是各大中型公司的自動化主管。

Thanks so much. Jason, I've opened up your line from Morgan Stanley.

非常感謝。傑森，我已經打開了摩根士丹利的電話線。

This is Jason on for Tejas. Thank you for taking our questions. So I guess starting off maybe just a question on the 2025 guide., What are your assumptions in the 2025 guide for some of the new offerings Ginkgo has launched, namely tools, data points and Ginkgo Automation. Are you anticipating a material contribution from any of these offerings in 2025?

這是 Tejas 的 Jason。感謝您回答我們的問題。所以我想先問一個關於 2025 年指南的問題。在 2025 年指南中，您對 Ginkgo 推出的一些新產品（即工具、數據點和 Ginkgo 自動化）有何假設。您是否預期這些產品中的任何一項會在 2025 年帶來實質貢獻？

Do you want to take that, Mark?

馬克，你想接受這個嗎？

So I'd be happy to take that. So we are, I think, being relatively conservative in the guide with respect to the new offerings. For context, in 2024, your baseline is single-digit millions of contribution from that. And so in the guide, I think we're anticipating at least getting into double-digit millions in terms of revenue contribution. And so what you should maybe think of is there are certainly upside opportunity from the tools offerings, but that within the guide, we're being relatively conservative there.

所以我很樂意接受這個。因此，我認為，我們對新產品的指導相對保守。就背景而言，到 2024 年，您的基準貢獻金額將達到個位數百萬。因此，在指南中，我認為我們預計收入貢獻將至少達到數千萬。因此，您可能應該想到，這些工具產品肯定存在上行機會，但在指南中，我們在這方面相對保守。

Yeah. And the only thing I'll add to that is, we're coming from basically a standing start on that in mid-'24. It's gotten well enough that you're seeing me direct more of our sales and commercial effort in that direction. So we'll see.

是的。我唯一要補充的是，我們基本上是從 2024 年中期開始的。情況已經變得夠好了，你會看到我把更多的銷售和商業努力放在這個方向上。我們拭目以待。

I mean the I think is real wind in the sales for data points, especially in the near term and automation on a slightly longer term. So knock on wood again, but we are trying to be conservative given it's a new business.

我的意思是，我認為數據點的銷售確實有風向，特別是在短期內，而自動化則在稍長期內。所以再次敲木頭，但考慮到這是一項新業務，我們正試圖保持保守。

Got it. That was helpful. And then maybe just if I could ask a follow-up question. Just so you reiterate expectations to reach adjusted EBITDA breakeven by year-end 2026. Where does Ginkgo need to finish in 2025 from an EBITDA perspective for us to feel comfortable about reaching this target?

知道了。這很有幫助。然後也許我可以問一個後續問題。因此，您重申在 2026 年底實現調整後 EBITDA 收支平衡的預期。從 EBITDA 角度來看，銀杏需要在 2025 年達到什麼水平，我們才能放心地實現這一目標？

And then could you provide some color on some of your assumptions that you have embedded regarding achieving the target. So any assumptions regarding the range of revenue you need to achieve? Is the success of either tools or data points or can go automation criteria to use this target? And is the OpEx run rate once the current restructuring initiatives completed sufficient? Or do you need on additional levers on the OpEx front? Thank you.

然後，您能否對實現目標的一些假設進行一些說明？那麼對於您需要實現的收入範圍有什麼假設嗎？成功是可以透過工具或數據點還是可以透過自動化標準來實現這一目標？在目前重組計畫完成後，營運支出運作率是否足夠？或者您需要在營運支出方面採取額外的措施？謝謝。

Yeah. So I'd be happy to take that one. So I think a good way to frame it is to look at where we finished in Q4 of 2024. So that was adjusted EBITDA of negative $57 million. So we talked -- so the levers that we have are really revenue costs and then sublease.

是的。所以我很樂意接受這個。因此，我認為一個好的方法就是看看我們在 2024 年第四季的成績如何。因此調整後的 EBITDA 為負 5700 萬美元。所以我們討論了一下——我們掌握的槓桿其實是收入成本，然後是轉租。

So on the cost front, we talked about increasing the cost takeout run rate by another $60 million by the end of this year. And so on a quarterly basis, Jason, you would see at least a $15 million contribution to adjusted EBITDA just from that alone. And I'll say, largely speaking, the actions that get us that $60 million have already been taken or are in motion. We will also continue to push on the cost lever. So we're not saying we're done there.

因此，在成本方面，我們討論了到今年年底將成本扣除運行率再提高 6000 萬美元。因此，傑森，按季度計算，僅憑這一點，你就會看到調整後的 EBITDA 貢獻至少為 1500 萬美元。我想說，總體來說，那些為我們帶來 6000 萬美元的行動已經採取或正在進行中。我們也將繼續加大成本控制力道。所以我們並不是說我們已經完成了。

And so through 2025 and 2026, we think there would be additional opportunities on the cost front. So that's part of the equation to get into adjusted EBITDA breakeven by the end of '26.

因此，我們認為到 2025 年和 2026 年，成本方面還會有更多機會。因此，這是 26 年底調整後 EBITDA 損益平衡的一部分。

Then you've got revenue growth, of course, would be -- we would expect to be a contributor. And then you've got sublease mitigating the $65 million on an annual run rate basis of excess space cost. Now on an annual basis, about $8 million of that just naturally expires in 2026. The rest of that, we would have to deal with through sublease income. It's a challenging market and so we're not banking necessarily on being able to do that.

那麼你就會有收入成長，當然，我們希望成為一個貢獻者。然後你就可以透過轉租來減輕每年 6500 萬美元的超額空間成本。現在按年計算，其中約有 800 萬美元將於 2026 年自然到期。其餘部分，我們必須透過轉租收入來處理。這是一個充滿挑戰的市場，因此我們不一定能做到這一點。

But that's another piece of the equation.

但這是等式的另一部分。

And then I guess the only final point, Jason, would be that downstream value share in 2026 is a real opportunity. There's a fairly significant amount of -- of the programs that we have that would be in play in 2026. Again, we're not necessarily banking on that to us to adjusted EBITDA breakeven, but that would be another opportunity that would be in play for 2026. So yes, so hopefully, that frames it for you.

然後我想唯一的最後一點，傑森，就是 2026 年的下游價值份額是一個真正的機會。我們現有的項目中有相當一部分將在 2026 年投入使用。再次強調，我們不一定指望這能讓我們調整 EBITDA 來達到損益兩平，但這將是 2026 年的另一個機會。是的，希望這能為您解決這個問題。

Yeah. My only addition to that, Jason, is the I think if you look at biotech market today, right, it's generally like a tough market, you're having a lot of time, less investment in R&D and so on and so forth. And we are -- we have launched these new products, which again, I'm happy they're going well, but they are new for us. So you see us being conservative on revenue guide because from my standpoint, costs are under our control, right? So as we march to breakeven, I'm going to be looking at that, right?

是的。傑森，我對此的唯一補充是，我認為如果你看看今天的生物技術市場，對吧，它通常就像一個艱難的市場，你有很多時間，在研發上的投資較少，等等。我們已經推出了這些新產品，我很高興它們進展順利，但它們對我們來說是新產品。所以您認為我們在收入指南方面比較保守，因為從我的角度來看，成本在我們的控制範圍內，對嗎？因此，當我們努力實現收支平衡時，我會注意這一點，對嗎？

If we're doing better on revenue grade. If we're not, we'll take out costs. It's not that's the equation that's not more complicated than that. And I do think we have plenty of levers.

如果我們的收入水平更好的話。如果我們不這樣做，我們將扣除成本。這並不是一個比這更複雜的方程式。我確實認為我們有很多槓桿。

That was helpful. Thank you, guys. Yeah. Awesome.

這很有幫助。謝謝你們。是的。驚人的。

Evie, Goldman.

伊薇，戈德曼。

Hi. Thank you. Filling in for Matt tonight. How should we think about the margin profile differences between the traditional foundry data points and automation? I understand it's early days and revenue is limited at this point, but just trying to get a sense for where growth will help push you towards EBITDA breakeven?

你好。謝謝。今晚代替馬特。我們該如何看待傳統代工資料點和自動化之間的利潤概況差異？我知道現在還處於早期階段，收入也有限，但只是想了解哪些成長將幫助您實現 EBITDA 收支平衡？

Yeah. So on the data points businesses for the tools offerings, we are really targeting the way we think about margins is we really target what you would see in a solid CRO services market of 40% plus gross margins. The -- I will just say the business is still not even close to being out of scale where you can really understand what's possible in terms of gross margin. We do think our offering there is pretty differentiated.

是的。因此，在工具產品的數據點業務上，我們真正瞄準的是我們對利潤率的看法，我們真正瞄準的是您在穩健的 CRO 服務市場中看到的 40% 以上的毛利率。我只想說，業務還遠遠未達到超出規模的程度，你才能真正了解毛利率的可能性。我們確實認為我們在那裡提供的產品相當有差異化。

We also think we have a way to scale into growth in a cost-effective way. So that's generally how we're targeting it.

我們也認為，我們有一種以經濟有效的方式實現成長的方法。這就是我們的整體目標。

On the -- compared to the traditional solutions offerings, you'll remember that we were using to some extent, downstream value share there as part of the thesis in terms of getting to margins. And so -- and so we were willing to do business at a much lower gross margin profile. And that, of course, has evolved, we're no longer willing to do that, and you see that in the cost structure coming down. And so -- but that's how we're thinking about the tools business, Evie.

與傳統的解決方案產品相比，您會記得，我們​​在某種程度上使用下游價值份額作為獲取利潤的論點的一部分。因此，我們願意以低得多的毛利率開展業務。當然，情況已經發生了變化，我們不再願意這樣做，而且你會看到成本結構正在下降。所以——但這就是我們對工具業務的看法，伊薇。

Okay. That's super helpful. And then what are you seeing in your sales funnel now that you've opened up your sales process towards more tools. Are you seeing the volume pickup you expected through the less customized, less risky offerings?

好的。這非常有幫助。那麼，既然您已經向更多工具開放了銷售流程，那麼您在銷售漏斗中看到了什麼？透過減少客製化、降低風險的產品，您是否看到了預期的銷售成長？

Yeah. This is something I was super excited about. I mean I think Mark mentioned it, but we had eight -- or sorry, seven new data points deals in the last quarter. We had five new logos to Ginkgo, right? Like that -- what we found with the data points -- in fact, I had a customer here today, who was like, oh, yes, I talked to you all 1 year ago, 1.5 years ago, and we left saying like, wow, we can't really get behind like the royalties and milestones for this a project.

是的。這是令我非常興奮的事情。我的意思是，我認為馬克提到了這一點，但我們上個季度有八個——或者抱歉，七個新的數據點交易。我們為 Ginkgo 設計了五個新標誌，對嗎？就像那樣——我們透過數據點發現的——事實上，我今天在這裡接待了一位客戶，他說，哦，是的，我在 1 年前、1.5 年前與你們談過，我們離開時說，哇，我們真的不能落後於這個項目的版稅和里程碑。

And so I assume you listened to us, and that's why you've updated your business model, right? It sounds great to me. So we have this these new interactions, even with places we've talked to before now, we're like they're basically introducing us to procurement now, and we're treated much more like a straightforward CRO interaction, it's way faster to close.

所以我認為你聽取了我們的意見，這就是你更新商業模式的原因，對嗎？我覺得這聽起來很棒。因此，我們有了這些新的互動，即使與我們之前談過的地方，我們感覺他們現在基本上是在向我們介紹採購，而且我們受到的待遇更像是直接的 CRO 互動，因此成交速度更快。

And then what we're finding with data points is we can do a smaller proof of concept, people want to try it out. Like I encourage customers listening on the call. You can do a relatively small project, 100,000 here, 200,000 there to generate a data set and see how it works in your area in your cell type and so on. And if it looks good, you can generate a much larger data set, specifically for model fine-tuning or other ML.

然後，我們透過數據點發現，我們可以做一個較小的概念驗證，人們想要嘗試。就像我鼓勵客戶在通話中傾聽一樣。您可以做一個相對較小的項目，這裡 100,000 個，那裡 200,000 個來產生一個資料集，並查看它在您的細胞類型區域中如何運作等等。如果看起來不錯，您可以產生更大的資料集，專門用於模型微調或其他 ML。

And so that -- again, it feels pretty good. It feels very different than when we were selling solutions. It's certainly been like wind in my commercial sales. So yes.

所以 — — 再說一次，感覺非常好。這與我們銷售解決方案時的感覺非常不同。我的商業銷售確實進展順利。是的。

Automation is a different crew. Like I would say that is really -- it is more of a sales cycle where you're going through, they're planning to do a build out. At least for our first installs, you'll see us go in with like a traditional automation sales cycle into like a work cell type build. However, I think, again, what's unique about the racks, and we aren't even seeing this with companies like Ogden, you can just add to them in small batches after that, right?

自動化是一支不同的隊伍。就像我想說的，這真的更像是一個銷售週期，你正在經歷這個銷售週期，他們正在計劃進行擴建。至少對於我們的第一次安裝，您會看到我們像傳統的自動化銷售週期一樣進入工作單元類型的建置。但是，我認為，這些貨架的獨特之處是，我們甚至沒有在像 Ogden 這樣的公司看到過這種情況，之後你只需小批量地添加到貨架中，對嗎？

So if we can just get in places, I think then we'll have a much quicker sales cycle than its traditional and integrated automation.

因此，如果我們能夠進入這些領域，我認為我們的銷售週期將比傳統的整合自動化快得多。

Mark, BTIG.

馬克，BTIG。

Great. Thanks, guys. Can you hear me? Yeah, again. Excellent. So I know the new administration has been in office, not terribly long here, but I'm just curious, in your Biosecurity guidance, you assumed no change to any government contracts.

偉大的。謝謝大家。你聽得到我嗎？是的，又一次。出色的。所以我知道新政府上任的時間並不長，但我只是好奇，在您的生物安全指導中，您假設任何政府合約都不會改變。

Obviously, there could be some changes, right? So help us to just better understand who these contracts are, which agencies they're with.

顯然，可能會有一些變化，對吧？因此，請幫助我們更了解這些合約是誰簽訂的，以及與哪些機構簽訂的。

And give us a sense, maybe just remind us if you think there are synergies remaining between your Biosecurity business and your core Cell Engineering business.

請告訴我們，如果您認為您的生物安全業務和核心細胞工程業務之間仍然存在協同效應，也許可以提醒我們。

Yeah. I can give a few comments there. So we do have government contracts both on the Cell Engineering side and the Biosecurity, as you're mentioning. The Cell Engineering contracts are much more like traditional R&D contracts, again, places like DARPA and ARPA and so on. .

是的。我可以在那裡發表一些評論。正如您所說，我們在細胞工程和生物安全方面都有政府合約。細胞工程合約更像傳統的研發合同，同樣，像 DARPA 和 ARPA 等地方也一樣。。

And there, I think you have seen with this administration coming in and making changes, certainly, the research universities are being impacted pretty quickly by changes to how they're approaching research funding. I will say like -- and this is part of the reason why we also were conservative on the guide for this year. We don't want to -- like we don't want to count on things. We'll see what happens.

我想你已經看到，隨著本屆政府的上台和做出的改變，研究型大學肯定會很快受到其研究資金處理方式變化的影響。我會說——這也是我們在今年的指南上持保守態度的原因之一。我們不想──就像我們不想依賴事物一樣。我們將拭目以待。

I will say, I think we're in the era with this administration. Certainly, my interactions in D.C., where the new leads have not -- they're either just getting in or aren't even yet in for a lot of these agencies. And certainly, their deputies are not in place yet. And so all you're seeing in advance of that is cutting.

我想說，我認為我們正處於這個政府的時代。當然，根據我在華盛頓特區的互動，許多新的線索還沒有——他們要么剛剛進入，甚至還沒有進入這些機構。當然，他們的副手還沒到位。因此，您之前所看到的只是切割。

What I think is going to be interesting about this administration is once those leads are in, I think you're going to have some people that do have certain vision for things, it's going to be potentially different than the visions of people that have come before, and they're going to want to move on it just as aggressively and quickly as you've seen them move on the cuts.

我認為本屆政府的有趣之處在於，一旦這些領導人上台，我認為你就會看到一些人對某些事情確實有自己的看法，這些看法可能與前人的見解不同，他們會像削減開支一樣積極、迅速地採取行動。

And that represents an opportunity. I'd say less of an opportunity on the research side. I think research will just be research. I do think research money will keep flowing there, it's maybe just a question project by project.

這代表著一個機會。我認為研究方面的機會較少。我認為研究只是研究而已。我確實認為研究資金將繼續流入那裡，這可能只是一個項目一個項目的問題。

But on the Biosecurity side, that could really go just in wildly different directions, depending on what the administration's plans are. Obviously, we've gotten out of the WHO has big impact on CDC in one of our contracts with CDC.

但在生物安全方面，情況可能會朝著截然不同的方向發展，這取決於政府的計畫。顯然，在我們與 CDC 簽訂的一份合約中，WHO 對 CDC 產生了很大的影響。

Where do they go with all that, right? Are they going to have an alternative to WHO some of the programs we have, these are even programs outside the US like -- we do, like we've mentioned before, monitoring in airports in Africa and in the Middle East and so on. Those could be real assets for some of the things that previously were being relied on just voluntary reporting from countries in the WHO.

他們帶著這些要去哪裡呢？對吧？他們是否會有世界衛生組織的替代方案，我們的一些項目甚至是美國以外的項目，就像我們之前提到的那樣，我們在非洲和中東等地的機場進行監控。對於先前僅依賴世衛組織各國自願報告的一些情況而言，這些可能是真正的資產。

We could now maybe monitor those with hard technology. And I think that's something that could appeal to this administration. But it's early days because we don't really have the leadership in place yet in some of those.

我們現在也許可以用硬技術來監控那些人。我認為這對本屆政府產生吸引力。但現在還為時過早，因為我們在某些​​領域還沒有真正的領導到位。

Okay. Great. And by the way, you've done a nice job on the cash burn reduction. Clearly, you've made a lot of changes to the company in the last several quarters. .

好的。偉大的。順便說一句，你們在減少現金消耗方面做得很好。顯然，過去幾季你們對公司做出了許多改變。。

But Mark, you talked about how you'll no longer report a new program metric. Maybe just remind us what we should be looking for. Obviously, we can track your Cell Engineering revenue. But remind us how we can -- what other ways can we track the health of your funnel and your business going forward?

但是馬克，你談到了你將不再報告新的程序指標。也許只是提醒我們應該尋找什麼。顯然，我們可以追蹤您的細胞工程收入。但請提醒我們如何做—我們還可以透過哪些其他方式來追蹤您的銷售管道和未來業務的健康狀況？

Yeah. So what you'll get is, I would say, an enhanced version of the current active program metric. And if you look at the appendix of the presentation, you'll get a preliminary view for the last four quarters of what that metric looks like, and we'd be happy to talk about it with you offline further and get your feedback on that.

是的。所以我想說，您將得到的是當前活躍程序指標的增強版本。如果您查看簡報的附錄，您將對過去四個季度的指標有初步的了解，我們很樂意與您進一步線下討論並聽取您的回饋。

But you'll get an enhanced current active program metric that will give you a better sense of what the real revenue per program at Ginkgo is. Because as I mentioned on the call, the number -- the metric you get right now includes a lot of programs that are either starting or stopping and therefore, aren't contributing revenue.

但您將獲得增強的當前活躍程序指標，這將使您更了解 Ginkgo 每個程式的實際收入。因為正如我在電話中提到的那樣，您現在獲得的數位指標包括許多正在啟動或停止的項目，因此沒有帶來收入。

And so when you try to take revenue divided by that program count and do the -- I know the analytics that you all do, you're not really getting a sense of what revenue per program is. So this will give you a better sense of that. And because you'll have four quarters of history, you'll be able to see how that's trending over time. And that's what I would use to model revenue. But we can talk about that in a little bit more detail off-line.

因此，當您嘗試將收入除以該程序數量並進行分析時 - 我知道您所做的分析，您並沒有真正了解每個程序的收入是多少。這會讓你更好地理解這一點。而且由於您將擁有四個季度的歷史記錄，因此您將能夠看到其隨時間的變化趨勢。這就是我用來模擬收入的方法。但我們可以在線下更詳細地討論這個問題。

And I appreciate the comment on that, and I get -- I'll give a shout out to the team for an enormous amount of work to get that cash burn down in Q4. It's -- and it's top of mind and a lot of what you see, I showed that slide there where we get the revenue up, bring the cost down and they line up and there we go.

我很感謝您對此的評論，我會向團隊致以最誠摯的謝意，感謝他們為在第四季度減少現金消耗所做的大量工作。這是 — — 這是最重要的，你們看到的很多東西，我在那裡展示了那張幻燈片，我們提高了收入，降低了成本，他們排好隊，就這樣。

And I like Ginkgo's position, as I mentioned, in terms of from a technology basis, the things we've accumulated, the talent we have here, if you look across the industry, it's tough times in general. And I think if we can get to that point where we are even close to breakeven in the near term, that allows us to be like a port in that storm. And so I do think that's a really important thing, and that's why we're putting so much effort into the cost takeouts.

我喜歡 Ginkgo 的地位，正如我所提到的，從技術基礎、我們所累積的東西、我們擁有的人才來看，如果你放眼整個產業，就會發現總體而言這是艱難的時期。我認為，如果我們能在短期內達到接近收支平衡的水平，我們就能成為風暴中的避風港。所以我確實認為這是一件非常重要的事情，這也是我們在降低成本方面投入如此多精力的原因。

Brendan, TD.

布倫丹，TD。

All right. Great. Thanks for taking the questions, guys. Maybe just piggybacking on some of the AI commentary. I actually wanted to ask how you're thinking about growth trajectory of some of these newer offerings? I understand all understand it's early days here. But just from a high-level strategy perspective, should we anticipate any shift in priority and maybe timing for expanding these newer products, just given all the headlines in recent months?

好的。偉大的。謝謝大家回答這些問題。也許只是利用一些人工智慧的評論。我實際上想問一下，您如何看待這些新產品的成長軌跡？我明白大家都明白現在還處於早期階段。但是，僅從高層策略角度來看，考慮到最近幾個月的所有頭條新聞，我們是否應該預測優先順序和擴展這些新產品的時間會發生任何變化？

And then I guess, honestly, related to that, just wondering if you see any potential synergies with your biosecurity offerings there moving forward?

然後我想，老實說，與此相關，我只是想知道您是否看到了與您的生物安全產品未來發展的任何潛在協同效應？

Yeah. So I think I mentioned this a bit in the talk, but the interest in AI from the -- it's really the mid and large biopharma, biotech companies. is what's driving all the interest in data points and even like on a second order basis, a chunk of interest in the automation.

是的。所以我想我在演講中提到過這一點，但對人工智慧的興趣實際上是來自中型和大型生物製藥、生物技術公司。是推動人們對數據點產生興趣的因素，甚至在二階基礎上，對自動化也產生了濃厚的興趣。

So I do think that will keep going, right? Like it's not going away. And I think you're seeing the success of the models just in driving efficiency across things like clinical filings and all this stuff, making it very obvious to leadership that it would be nice to see similar gains in their research outputs.

所以我確實認為這種情況會持續下去，對嗎？就像它不會消失一樣。我認為您看到的模型在提高臨床申請等各個方面的效率方面取得了成功，這讓領導層非常清楚，看到他們的研究成果取得類似的進步是件好事。

And so I think that's what -- that's driving it. I think then like I mentioned, you quickly run into this realization that even at these large biopharma companies, the existing data sets you have across the many hundreds of drug development programs you would have done over the years were all done in like slightly different ways with different controls and different data standards and then also they were done at the lab bench. And so very smart science was done, but maybe not huge data assets were generated.

所以我認為這就是推動它的原因。我想，就像我提到的那樣，你很快就會意識到，即使在這些大型生物製藥公司，多年來你所做的數百個藥物開發項目中的現有數據集都是以略微不同的方式、不同的控制和不同的數據標準完成的，而且它們都是在實驗室工作台上完成的。儘管我們已經完成了非常聰明的科學研究，但可能並沒有產生大量的數據資產。

And so everyone, I think what's originally hoping, I'll just go mine all this data we already have. And surely, that will let me train these models. And then the realization has set in that actually you mostly need to generate new data.

所以各位，我想最初的希望是，我只需挖掘我們已經擁有的所有數據。當然，這將讓我能夠訓練這些模型。然後你就會意識到，實際上你最需要的是產生新數據。

And so that, I would say that, like, hey, we're interested. Oh, we've done the nine-month cycle to look at our existing data and realize we want to make new stuff or either new just relevant to our new drug programs has clicked through, and that's why you're seeing new demand. So I do think that will keep going.

所以，我想說，嘿，我們很感興趣。哦，我們已經完成了九個月的周期來查看我們現有的數據，並意識到我們想要製造新產品，或者與我們的新藥計劃相關的新產品，這就是您看到新需求的原因。所以我確實認為這種情況將會持續下去。

When it comes to Biosecurity, I think -- yes, I mean one of the things -- look, I cannot emphasize how or we are as a species and establishing Biosecurity so far. But you could absolutely imagine a future world where you have basically rapid at site DNA sequencing that sequencing is getting sent up into the cloud, and it's being analyzed across thousands of collection sites by AI models that are basically looking for things that look bad.

談到生物安全，我認為——是的，我的意思是其中一件事——看，我無法強調我們作為一個物種迄今為止是如何建立生物安全的。但你完全可以想像未來的世界，在那裡，你基本上可以快速進行現場 DNA 測序，測序結果被發送到雲端，然後由數千個收集站點的人工智慧模型進行分析，這些模型基本上是在尋找看起來不好的東西。

And this is roughly the analogy would be like what you see with cybersecurity, right? Places like Microsoft and others who are monitoring across many, many end points. see an anomaly they're like, "Oh, that's a new virus. And then are you able to -- try to contain it and then also push patches and update. We got to get to this place when it comes to virus.

這大致類似於您在網路安全中看到的，對嗎？微軟和其他公司正在監控許多端點。看到異常現象時他們會說，「哦，這是一種新病毒。然後你能否——嘗試控制它，然後推送補丁並進行更新。當談到病毒時，我們必須到達這個地方。

It's just literally crazy.

這簡直太瘋狂了。

And so I do think that type of infrastructure getting that in place is absolutely going to evolve. AI analysis of just the raw amount of genomic data. But first step is start collecting the genomic data. And that's really what we've been putting in place to begin with. So I think there's a little bit of like I think the data collection is probably the driver initially for this stuff in both cases.

因此我確實認為，實現這一目標的基礎設施絕對會不斷發展。僅對原始基因組數據進行人工智慧分析。但第一步是開始收集基因組數據。這確實是我們一開始就採取的措施。因此，我認為在這兩種情況下，資料收集可能是最初的驅動因素。

All right. Great. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

好的。偉大的。謝謝大家。非常感謝。

Yeah. Matt, William Blair.

是的。馬特，威廉布萊爾。

Hey. Good afternoon. How you doing, Jason?

嘿。午安.你好嗎，傑森？

A couple of times you might have come back, we see you again. Do you want to start the question again?

有幾次你可能已經回來了，我們又見到你了。您想重新開始提問嗎？

Yeah, sure, do you have me? Yeah. So a couple of times you've referenced an effort to be conservative with guidance. And obviously, at Challenge, the last couple of years was in these very long sales cycles given the complexity of deal that you're targeting, and you have a lot of work to simplify that and really work with customers to reduce sales cycle meet them where they're at. .

是的，當然，有我嗎？是的。您曾多次提到要努力採取保守的指導方針。顯然，在 Challenge，由於目標交易的複雜性，過去幾年的銷售週期非常長，您需要做大量工作來簡化這一過程，並真正與客戶合作以縮短銷售週期，滿足他們的需求。。

Can you just help us, when you say more conservative -- does that just reflect shorter sales cycles, so more data around close time? What is the early data points around the tools and data points offering in terms of close time? How do you really arrive at confidence it conservative guidance.

您能否幫助我們，當您說更保守時——這是否僅僅反映了更短的銷售週期，因此在成交時間方面有更多數據？就關閉時間而言，工具和數據點周圍的早期數據點提供什麼？您如何真正對保守的指導充滿信心？

So yes, I'll start by saying, Matt, on the solutions side, remember, we do programs that, in many cases, are multiyear programs. So we're coming into 2025 with a pretty substantial backlog of business. that we need to burn. And this is on the commercial side of the company with lots of like good customers and long-standing customers. So there's a base of business that is already baked in.

是的，首先我要說的是，馬特，在解決方案方面，請記住，我們實施的專案在許多情況下都是多年期專案。因此，到 2025 年，我們將有相當多的業務積壓。我們需要燒掉它。這是公司的商業方面，有很多優質客戶和長期客戶。因此，我們已經有一個成熟的業務基礎。

When we say conservative, we're really talking about some uncertainty around the government side of solutions, government has been a source of growth for us when you just look at the numbers in 2024. And was expected to be a source of further growth in 2025. And just given the current environment, very specifically, we thought we should be conservative on that piece of solutions. And then finally, on tools, like I said...

當我們說保守時，我們實際上是在談論政府解決方案的一些不確定性，如果你看看 2024 年的數據，政府一直是我們的成長來源。並預計在2025年成為進一步成長的來源。鑑於當前的環境，我們認為我們應該對這項解決方案持保守態度。最後，關於工具，就像我說的…

Maybe in '24, that was, what, 15%, 20% or something.

也許在 24 年，這個比例是 15%、20% 左右。

Yeah, of revenue. So you can look at the -- you'll see it in the 10-K, the percent of revenue by -- by industry segment, but government was roughly speaking, about $20 million of revenue for us in Solutions in 2024, and we would have expected that to grow in 2025. So -- so that's really, Matt, what we mean by conservative.

是的，收入。因此，您可以查看 10-K 表中按行業細分的收入百分比，但粗略地說，2024 年政府解決方案為我們帶來的收入約為 2000 萬美元，我們預計 2025 年這一數字將會增長。所以——馬特，這就是我們所說的保守。

And then on the tool side, I think just -- you heard me say it in one of the earlier questions, but we -- starting from a base of effectively 0 have modeled in the guidance, getting into double-digit millions of revenue but not beyond that. We do see potential just based on pipeline to do better than that in the year, but that's not in the guidance on the tool side.

然後在工具方面，我認為——您在之前的問題中聽到我說過，但是我們——從實際 0 的基數開始在指導中建模，收入達到數百萬，但不會超過這個數字。我們確實看到了僅基於管道在今年做得更好的潛力，但這並不在工具方面的指導範圍內。

Okay. And then, Jason, the division of building a company that can accelerate and make R&D more efficient maybe it looks a little different today with data points and with tools, but that's still really where you're headed.

好的。然後，傑森，建立一個可以加速和提高研發效率的公司這個部門，今天可能看起來有點不同，有數據點和工具，但這仍然是你的目標。

And I would think that over time, there could be a number of customers that might work with can't go in a number of different ways, both on the automation side, maybe it's data points projects and then larger enterprise efforts.

我認為，隨著時間的推移，可能會有許多客戶以多種不同的方式與我們合作，無論是在自動化方面，還是在數據點專案以及更大的企業努力方面。

Do you have any of those examples yet? Is that something over time you think you can get to? And what's the path for here to there?

您有這樣的例子嗎？您認為隨著時間的推移，您能夠實現這一目標嗎？從這裡到那裡的路是怎麼樣的？

Yeah. There is like an interesting like flyer -- so yes, Ginkgo's mission is make biology easier to engineer, data points and tools very clearly fit into that. It's infrastructure we built. We can go to market with it quickly. We can sell it in a new way. All that, again, was a hypothesis last summer that has now been proven true.

是的。有一張有趣的傳單——是的，Ginkgo 的使命是讓生物學更容易設計，數據點和工具非常明顯地符合這一點。這是我們建造的基礎設施。我們可以快速地將其推向市場。我們可以用新的方式來銷售它。所有這些都只是去年夏天提出的假設，現在已被證明是正確的。

So I'm really excited about that. It takes something like robotics, right? I mean that robotics infrastructure, obviously is relevant to biotech research, but it's really connecting laboratory equipment into an integrated setup. You could for other types of laboratory work as well.

所以我對此感到非常興奮。這需要類似機器人技術的東西，對嗎？我的意思是，機器人基礎設施顯然與生物技術研究相關，但它實際上是將實驗室設備連接到一個整合裝置。您也可以進行其他類型的實驗室工作。

Certainly, we expect demand and have already seen demand in our funnel from things like diagnostics companies and things like that. I think you'll absolutely see that as a base of customers for us in automation.

當然，我們預計會有需求，並且已經在我們的管道中看到了來自診斷公司等的需求。我想您絕對會將其視為我們自動化領域的客戶群。

But you're also seeing some efforts from like the large tech companies like I was on a panel with R&D for Microsoft. And like they're doing like AI for science. Google, who is a strong partner of ours. They just came out with a pilot for scientists, which is actually pretty amazing.

但你也會看到一些大型科技公司的努力，像是我曾參加微軟研發部門的小組討論。就像他們為科學所做的人工智慧。谷歌是我們強大的合作夥伴。他們剛剛為科學家們推出了一項試點項目，這實際上非常了不起。

And so I think you are seeing the Frontier AI Lab say what these reasoning models at the high end, one of the use cases could be changing how we do scientific and engineering discovery in the world.

所以我認為你看到前沿人工智慧實驗室所說的這些高端推理模型，其中一個用例可能會改變我們在世界上進行科學和工程發現的方式。

And if you want to do that, then those models need to interact with the real world. They need to be able to run experiments. And so again, I feel like automation could be a really big part of that. That's not a big part of my revenue plans in '25, although we do have some -- we have contracts data generation with major tech company. But the -- but it is a thing to watch.

如果你想做到這一點，那麼這些模型就需要與現實世界互動。他們需要能夠進行實驗。因此，我再次認為自動化可能在其中發揮重要作用。這不是我 25 年收入計畫的重要組成部分，儘管我們確實有一些收入——我們與大型科技公司簽訂了數據生成合約。但 — — 但這是值得關注的事情。

And if that becomes an actual big area of investment among the major tech players you can expect Ginkgo to be right there. So for example, we'll have our racks at the big NVIDIA event. So if you want -- if you're happy to go to that, you can check them out in person there. Yeah.

如果這成為主要科技公司真正大力投資的領域，那麼你可以期待 Ginkgo 會出現在那裡。例如，我們將在大型 NVIDIA 活動上展示我們的機架。所以如果你願意——如果你樂意去那裡，你可以親自去那裡看看。是的。

Thanks for bearing with me there, Matt. Jason, from Morgan Stanley. If you have any other questions, happy to take a second one, but if not I'll close with a retail question.

謝謝你的耐心，馬特。來自摩根士丹利的傑森。如果您還有其他問題，我很樂意回答第二個問題，但如果沒有，我將以零售問題結束。

So a retail question, this comes from Caballos. The question is, is Ginkgo revenue impacted at all by avian flu, potential pandemics, et cetera, a matter of personal concern. So I appreciate you guys answering that.

這是一個零售問題，來自 Caballos。問題是，銀杏的收入是否會受到禽流感、潛在流行病等的影響，這是一個個人關心的問題。所以我感謝你們回答這個問題。

So I think -- I mean, like H5N1, here's what I'll say about Biosecurity. It's -- we have been building out the infrastructure, obviously, to support persistent pervasive surveillance in between certainly pandemics, but even in between various regional outbreaks like there's some formal thing that came out like DRC, I just saw today, right?

所以我認為——我的意思是，就像 H5N1 一樣，這就是我要說的關於生物安全的事情。顯然，我們一直在建設基礎設施，以支持在大流行病期間進行持續的普遍監測，但即使在各個區域疫情爆發之間，也有一些正式的事情出現，比如 DRC，我今天剛剛看到，對吧？

So you're going to have these -- you're going to have regional stuff that creates spot demand and then the occasional larger, more global thing. H5N1 has pandemic potential like entostory, right? So it's just one of these things you have to watch at the human transmission level. And if it does, you should absolutely again, expect us to be right there like we were during COVID to just lean right into that and grow.

所以你會擁有這些——你會擁有創造現貨需求的區域性產品，然後偶爾會有更大、更全球化的產品。H5N1 像 entostory 一樣具有大流行的可能性，對嗎？所以這只是在人際傳播層面上需要關注的事情之一。如果確實如此，你絕對應該再次期待我們能像在新冠疫情期間一樣，全力以赴，不斷發展。

But then there is an interesting angle around -- I mean, like egg prices are up, right? There's a reason for that. And so I do think there's also an angle there potentially with biosecurity just around preserving food security and food pricing, which I think is something that's of interest to this administration and just everyday folks. And so I think that's another angle for biosecurity in the future, but obviously, we pay the most attention to the human stuff.

但還有一個有趣的角度——我的意思是，雞蛋價格上漲了，對吧？這是有原因的。因此，我確實認為，生物安全也可能與維護食品安全和食品定價有關，我認為這是本屆政府和一般民眾關心的問題。所以我認為這是未來生物安全的另一個角度，但顯然，我們最關注的是人類的事。

Thanks so much. Thanks, everybody, for joining us.

非常感謝。感謝大家加入我們。

Yeah. Thanks, everyone, for the time today. I appreciate the questions. Bye.

是的。謝謝大家今天抽出時間。我很感謝你們提出這些問題。再見。