Ginkgo Bioworks Holdings Inc (DNA) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good evening. I'm Megan LeDuc, Manager of Investor Relations at Ginkgo Bioworks. I'm joined by Jason Kelly, our Co-Founder and CEO; and Mark Dmytruk, our CFO.

晚安.我是 Megan LeDuc，Ginkgo Bioworks 投資人關係經理。我們的共同創辦人兼執行長傑森凱利 (Jason Kelly) 也加入了我的行列。和我們的財務長馬克‧德米特魯克 (Mark Dmytruk)。

Thanks as always for joining us. We're looking forward to updating you on our progress. As a reminder, during the presentation today, we will be making forward-looking statements, which involve risks and uncertainties. Please refer to our filings with the SEC to learn more about these risks and uncertainties. Today, in addition to updating you on the quarter, we are going to provide updates on our path towards adjusted EBITDA breakeven as well as customer progress in our cell engineering business and our latest H5N1 offerings.

一如既往地感謝您加入我們。我們期待向您通報我們的最新進展。提醒一下，在今天的演示中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，其中涉及風險和不確定性。請參閱我們向 SEC 提交的文件，以了解有關這些風險和不確定性的更多資訊。今天，除了向您通報本季的最新情況外，我們還將提供有關調整後 EBITDA 盈虧平衡點以及客戶在我們的細胞工程業務和最新 H5N1 產品方面的進展的最新資訊。

As usual, we'll end with a Q&A session, and I'll take questions from analysts, investors and the public. You can submit those questions to us in advance via X at #GinkgoResults or e-mail investors@ginkgobioworks.com. All right. Over to you, Jason.

像往常一樣，我們將以問答環節結束，我將回答分析師、投資者和公眾的問題。您可以透過 X #GinkgoResults 或電子郵件 Investors@ginkgobioworks.com 提前向我們提交這些問題。好的。交給你了，傑森。

Thanks, Megan, and thanks, everyone, for joining us. We always start with our mission of making biology easier to engineer here at Ginkgo. And similar to last quarter, we continue to focus on three key objectives: First, we want to reach adjusted EBITDA breakeven while maintaining a cash margin of safety. And we ended this quarter with $616 million in cash and no bank debt and have already exceeded our cost-cutting target for 2024. In other words, we've hit the target we're trying to hit by the end of the year.

謝謝梅根，也謝謝大家加入我們。在 Ginkgo，我們始終以讓生物學變得更容易設計為使命。與上季類似，我們繼續關註三個關鍵目標：首先，我們希望在保持現金安全邊際的同時實現調整後的 EBITDA 盈虧平衡。截至本季末，我們擁有 6.16 億美元現金，沒有銀行債務，並且已經超出了 2024 年的成本削減目標。換句話說，我們已經達到了年底前要達到的目標。

At the rate we were dropping costs, that makes for a nice cash margin of safety, in my opinion.

在我看來，以我們降低成本的速度，這帶來了很好的現金安全邊際。

Second, while we cut costs, we need to keep serving our current customers and adding new customers. I'll dive into this in the strategic section, but I'm very happy about achieving the $9 million technical milestone with Merck that we just announced this morning. That's a great indication of Ginkgo delivering R&D solutions to blue chip customers in biopharma.

其次，在削減成本的同時，我們需要繼續服務現有客戶並增加新客戶。我將在策略部分深入探討這一點，但我很高興與默克公司達成今天早上剛宣布的 900 萬美元技術里程碑。這是 Ginkgo 為生物製藥領域的藍籌客戶提供研發解決方案的一個很好的跡象。

Finally, we want to grow our revenue in solutions while also expanding into selling tools. And I'll cover this more on the strategic section, but we're excited by the traction we are seeing in our newly launched data points business with a couple of recent wins with top 25 biopharmas that are new customers to Ginkgo.

最後，我們希望增加解決方案的收入，同時擴展到銷售工具。我將在策略部分對此進行更多介紹，但我們對新推出的數據點業務的吸引力感到興奮，最近與25 家頂級生物製藥公司取得了幾項勝利，這些生物製藥公司是Ginkgo 的新客戶。

As a reminder, in last quarter's call, we talked about how we expect to see $100 million of costs taken out on an annualized run rate basis this year with an additional $100 million coming out by mid-25. I am happy to report we're not just in line to reach those goals, but we are actually ahead on those metrics. You'll see later in the deck that our Q3 results indicate we're ahead of schedule in cost cutting with a $125 million annualized run rate cash OpEx improvement relative to Q1.

提醒一下，在上個季度的電話會議中，我們談到了我們預計今年將按年化運行率扣除 1 億美元的成本，並在 25 月中旬之前再扣除 1 億美元的成本。我很高興地向大家報告，我們不僅能夠實現這些目標，而且在這些指標上我們實際上處於領先地位。您將在稍後的簡報中看到，我們第三季的結果表明我們在成本削減方面提前了，與第一季相比，年化運行率現金營運支出改善了 1.25 億美元。

Okay. I'm excited to get into all of that more in the strategic section. But before that, I want to hand it over to Mark to discuss the financial results for the quarter.

好的。我很高興能在策略部分深入了解所有這些內容。但在此之前，我想將其交給馬克討論本季的財務表現。

Thanks, Jason. I'll start with the cell engineering business. I'll start by noting that during the quarter, Ginkgo recognized $45 million of noncash revenue from a release of deferred revenue relating to the mutual termination of a customer agreement we had with Motif FoodWorks, one of our platform ventures.

謝謝，傑森。我將從細胞工程業務開始。首先我要指出的是，在本季度，Ginkgo 確認了 4,500 萬美元的非現金收入，這些收入來自與我們與 Motif FoodWorks（我們的平台企業之一）簽訂的客戶協議相互終止相關的遞延收入。

We have no further obligations to perform services under this agreement and hence, the accounting for the deferred revenue release. Excluding this impact, cell engineering revenue was $30 million in the quarter, down 20% compared to the third quarter of 2023. Similar to prior quarters of this year, this decline was driven primarily by the continued shift from small early-stage customers to large enterprise customers, along with the changes we've made as part of the restructuring.

我們沒有進一步履行本協議項下服務的義務，因此也沒有遞延收入釋放的會計處理義務。排除此影響，該季度細胞工程收入為 3,000 萬美元，較 2023 年第三季下降 20%。與今年前幾季類似，這種下降主要是由於小型早期客戶向大型企業客戶的持續轉變，以及我們在重組過程中所做的改變所致。

In the quarter, we supported a total of 136 active programs across 81 customers on the cell engineering platform. This represents a 17% increase in active programs year-over-year with the largest amount of growth coming from food and ag and government customers.

本季度，我們在細胞工程平台上為 81 位客戶的 136 個活躍專案提供了支援。這意味著活躍計畫年增 17%，其中最大的成長來自食品、農業和政府客戶。

As we discussed in our Q1 and Q2 earnings calls, the nature of programs that we take on with our customers has evolved following our recent adjustments to commercial terms and the launch of our data points offering. While still very early days, this slide gives you some detail on how the nature of programs is changing. We added a total of 25 new programs and contracts in Q3 2024, of which 11 were generally comparable in size and scope to historically reported new programs and were included in the current active program count on the prior slide.

正如我們在第一季和第二季財報電話會議中討論的那樣，隨著我們最近對商業條款的調整和數據點產品的推出，我們與客戶合作的計劃的性質已經發生了變化。雖然還處於早期階段，但這張投影片為您提供了有關程式性質如何變化的一些詳細資訊。我們在 2024 年第三季度總共添加了 25 個新項目和合同，其中 11 個在規模和範圍上與歷史報告的新項目大致相當，並且包含在上一張幻燈片中當前活躍項目的數量中。

Importantly, you'll note that of those, 9 out of the 11 deals were either government or biopharma programs. In addition, we commenced 14 other customer contracts in the quarter that represent a variety of small deal archetypes, these are generally much smaller in scope and shorter in duration and include two data points deals as well as seven other biopharma deals. The current sales pipeline for both categories of deals is strong, and we are encouraged that we've been able to execute on existing customer programs while converting new opportunities, which Jason will talk more about in the strategic section of the presentation.

重要的是，您會注意到，其中 11 筆交易中有 9 筆是政府或生物製藥項目。此外，我們在本季度還簽訂了14 份其他客戶合同，這些合同代表了各種小額交易原型，這些合同的範圍通常要小得多，持續時間也較短，包括兩項數據點交易以及其他七項生物製藥交易。目前這兩類交易的銷售管道都很強勁，我們感到鼓舞的是，我們能夠在轉換新機會的同時執行現有的客戶計劃，賈森將在演示的戰略部分詳細討論這一點。

Now turning to Biosecurity. Our Biosecurity business generated $14 million of revenue in the third quarter of 2024 at a gross margin of 28%. Revenue and gross margin were down quarter-over-quarter. And as you'll note, lumpy during the course of the year due partly to the timing of signing of a customer contract in Q2 of this year.

現在轉向生物安全。我們的生物安全業務在 2024 年第三季創造了 1,400 萬美元的收入，毛利率為 28%。收入和毛利率環比下降。正如您將注意到的那樣，這一年中的情況不穩定，部分原因是今年第二季簽署了客戶合約。

And now I'll provide more commentary on the rest of the P&L, where noted, these figures exclude stock-based compensation expense, which is shown separately. And we are also breaking out M&A and restructuring-related expenses to provide you with additional comparability. A full reconciliation of the M&A and restructuring-related costs can also be found in the appendix.

現在我將對損益表的其餘部分提供更多評論，其中指出，這些數字不包括基於股票的補償費用，這是單獨顯示的。我們也細分了併購和重組相關費用，為您提供額外的可比性。併購和重組相關成本的完整調節表也可以在附錄中找到。

Starting with OpEx. R&D expense, excluding stock-based comp and M&A and restructuring costs, decreased from $108 million in the third quarter of 2023 to $74 million in the third quarter of 2024. This decrease was primarily driven by our restructuring efforts. G&A expense, excluding stock-based comp and M&A and restructuring costs, decreased from $49 million in the third quarter of 2023 to $42 million in the third quarter of 2024, which also reflects cost reduction actions we've taken this year.

從營運支出開始。研發費用（不包括股票補償以及併購和重組成本）從 2023 年第三季的 1.08 億美元下降至 2024 年第三季的 7,400 萬美元。這一下降主要是由於我們的重組努力所致。G&A 費用（不包括股票補償以及併購和重組成本）從 2023 年第三季的 4,900 萬美元減少到 2024 年第三季的 4,200 萬美元，這也反映了我們今年採取的成本削減行動。

Stock-based comp. So again, you'll see a significant drop in stock-based comp this quarter, similar to what we have seen over the past year as we complete the roll-off of the original catch-up accounting adjustment related to the modification of restricted stock units when we first went public. Additional details are provided in the appendix.

基於股票的比較因此，您將再次看到本季基於股票的比較大幅下降，與我們去年看到的情況類似，因為我們完成了與限制性股票修改相關的原始追趕會計調整的滾轉我們剛上市時的單位。附錄中提供了更多詳細資訊。

Net loss. It is important to note that our net loss includes a number of noncash income and/or expenses as detailed more fully in our financial statements. Because of these noncash and other nonrecurring items, we believe adjusted EBITDA is a more indicative measure of our profitability. We've also included a reconciliation of adjusted EBITDA to net loss in the appendix.

淨損失。值得注意的是，我們的淨虧損包括一些非現金收入和/或支出，詳見我們的財務報表。由於這些非現金和其他非經常性項目，我們認為調整後的 EBITDA 更能說明我們的獲利能力。我們也在附錄中列出了調整後 EBITDA 與淨虧損的調節表。

Adjusted EBITDA in the quarter was negative $20 million, which was down from negative $84 million in Q3 2023. This significant improvement in adjusted EBITDA can be attributed to the impact of the previously mentioned noncash deferred revenue release as well as the major cost-cutting initiatives implemented over the last two quarters.

本季調整後 EBITDA 為負 2,000 萬美元，低於 2023 年第三季的負 8,400 萬美元。調整後 EBITDA 的顯著改善可歸因於前面提到的非現金遞延收入釋放以及過去兩個季度實施的主要成本削減措施的影響。

And finally, I'll just make one additional comment relating to cash burn in the quarter as compared to Q2. The cash burn in Q3 was impacted by some nonrecurring items including a litigation settlement and employee severance related to the restructuring. Those two items together resulted in cash payments of approximately $23 million in the quarter. So if you factor that in, along with some working capital timing impact in Q3, that will help explain why the cash burn was relatively high in the quarter despite the OpEx reduction. We would, therefore, expect to see a significant decrease in cash burn in Q4 as a result of the restructuring.

最後，我將就本季與第二季相比的現金消耗發表補充評論。第三季的現金消耗受到一些非經常性項目的影響，包括與重組相關的訴訟和解和員工遣散費。這兩項項目合計導致本季現金支付約 2,300 萬美元。因此，如果您將這一點考慮在內，再加上第三季度的一些營運資金時間影響，這將有助於解釋為什麼儘管營運支出減少，但該季度的現金消耗相對較高。因此，我們預計第四季度的現金消耗將因重組而大幅減少。

In terms of outlook for the full year, we previously issued guidance for total revenue of $170 million to $190 million, Cell Engineering services revenue of $120 million to $140 million and Biosecurity revenue of at least $50 million. We update this previously issued guidance solely to reflect the impact of the previously mentioned $45 million noncash deferred revenue release in the third quarter.

就全年展望而言，我們先前發布的指導意見是總收入為 1.7 億至 1.9 億美元，細胞工程服務收入為 1.2 億至 1.4 億美元，生物安全收入至少為 5,000 萬美元。我們更新先前發布的指引只是為了反映先前提到的第三季 4,500 萬美元非現金遞延收入釋放的影響。

With this impact in mind, we now expect our total revenue to be $215 million to $235 million, Cell Engineering services revenue to be $165 million to $185 million and Biosecurity to remain the same of at least $50 million. In conclusion, we're pleased with our overall execution of the restructuring thus far as we navigate substantial cost reductions and commercial changes, which we see as foundational to our path to adjusted EBITDA breakeven. Back over to you, Jason.

考慮到這種影響，我們現在預計我們的總收入為 2.15 億至 2.35 億美元，細胞工程服務收入為 1.65 億至 1.85 億美元，生物安全將保持不變，至少為 5000 萬美元。總而言之，我們對迄今為止重組的整體執行情況感到滿意，因為我們實現了大幅成本削減和商業變革，我們認為這是我們實現調整後 EBITDA 盈虧平衡的基礎。回到你身邊，傑森。

Thanks, Mark. Just to add to Mark's comments, I'm very happy with our revenue performance this quarter, but I just wanted to provide extra clarity on the Motif noncash deferred revenue release.

謝謝，馬克。補充一下 Mark 的評論，我對本季的收入表現非常滿意，但我只是想進一步澄清 Motif 非現金遞延收入的發布。

So Motif is one of the companies that was founded on top of Ginkgo's platform. And with these deals, we received equity in the company in exchange for preferred access to our platform. On top of that, we also paid cash R&D fees when we did work for Motif. The accounting treatment is such that we don't actually book the equity value as revenue until more work is completed across sort of a batch of programs.

Motif 是 Ginkgo 平台上成立的公司之一。透過這些交易，我們獲得了公司的股權，以換取優先使用我們平台的權利。除此之外，我們在 Motif 工作時還支付了現金研發費用。會計處理是這樣的，在一批專案中完成更多工作之前，我們實際上不會將股權價值記為收入。

And now since we terminated the relationship with Motif now, we have a catch-up where all the work is considered finished and we get a bunch of the value all at once. We don't consider this equity to have value at this point given the substantial downturn in the alternate meat space and the status of Motif, which is winding down. So while it's correct to account for it as we did, we've been clear that analysts and investors shouldn't think of it as cash revenue.

現在，既然我們終止了與 Motif 的關係，我們就有了一個追趕的機會，所有的工作都被認為已經完成，我們一次性獲得了一堆價值。考慮到替代肉類領域的大幅下滑以及 Motif 的現狀，我們認為目前該股權沒有價值。因此，儘管像我們那樣對其進行核算是正確的，但我們已經明確表示，分析師和投資者不應將其視為現金收入。

Okay. Let's dive in on the strategic section. So similar to last quarter, I'm going to use the first strategic section to focus on Ginkgo's efforts to reduce costs and provide you with an update on our consolidation efforts.

好的。讓我們深入探討戰略部分。與上季類似，我將使用第一個策略部分來重點介紹 Ginkgo 降低成本的努力，並向您提供我們整合工作的最新資訊。

Next, I'm super proud of the work that we've been able to accomplish with customers despite our cost cutting, and I'm excited to highlight some cell engineering successes as well as new deals with blue-chip customers, while also discussing our new data points offerings that are beginning to see traction. Lastly, I'd like to focus on the new services that our Biosecurity team has been focused on, specifically surrounding the recent spread of H5N1.

接下來，我對我們在削減成本的情況下與客戶完成的工作感到非常自豪，我很高興強調一些細胞工程的成功以及與藍籌客戶的新交易，同時也討論我們的新數據點產品已開始受到關注。最後，我想重點介紹一下我們的生物安全團隊一直在關注的新服務，特別是圍繞最近 H5N1 傳播的服務。

Okay. Let's get started. So during our Q2 call, we reiterated our plans to cut spending back by a run rate of $100 million by the end of 24 and an additional $100 million expected by mid-25. Now although our total cash burn has not reduced significantly in the quarter due to some of the one-off costs that Mark discussed, our key recurring costs have dropped $125 million on an annualized basis since Q1 of this year, and we'll hope they'll continue to drop even more as we close out the year.

好的。讓我們開始吧。因此，在第二季電話會議中，我們重申了計劃，到 24 年底削減支出 1 億美元，預計到 25 年底再削減 1 億美元。現在，儘管由於Mark 討論的一些一次性成本，本季我們的總現金消耗並未顯著減少，但自今年第一季以來，我們的主要經常性成本按年化計算已減少1.25 億美元，我們希望它們能夠減少當我們結束這一年時，將繼續下降更多。

I'm proud of the progress we have made overall and would like to highlight some of the key measures we took to reduce costs. First, we previously announced a 35% RIF that has almost been fully executed now. Second, in terms of other expenses, we have reduced our contractor and temp labor pool by nearly 60%, while also cutting back professional fees by roughly 40% since Q1 of this year. We've also significantly reduced the number of software licenses and applications at Ginkgo, LDaaS software spending. And then lastly, we've seen great progress within our real estate consolidation efforts as we transition out of several offices.

我對我們整體的進展感到自豪，並想重點介紹我們為降低成本而採取的一些關鍵措施。首先，我們之前宣布了35%的RIF，現在幾乎已經完全執行了。其次，在其他費用方面，自今年第一季以來，我們已將承包商和臨時勞動力減少了近 60%，同時也削減了約 40% 的專業費用。我們也大幅減少了 Ginkgo 的軟體授權和應用程式數量、LDaaS 軟體支出。最後，隨著我們從多個辦事處轉型，我們的房地產整合工作取得了巨大進展。

I just want to flag it. These cost takeouts do come at a cost. They -- and it's largely that we can no longer go out and sort of an open-ended way to sell our solutions offering. So previously, we'd walk into a large company customer like a Merck or something, and offer to do whatever type of Cell Engineering work they needed and then we'd expand the platform on the back end to meet that demand.

我只是想標記它。這些成本支出確實是有代價的。他們——很大程度上是我們不能再出去以開放式的方式來銷售我們的解決方案。因此，以前，我們會走進像默克這樣的大公司客戶，並提出做他們需要的任何類型的細胞工程工作，然後我們會擴展後端平台以滿足該需求。

We're being much tighter now about where and what we sell in the solutions business so that we can deliver more efficiently. In other words, selling things that we've done many times before. And then we're expanding via our tool sales, as I'll talk about in a minute. So there's a little bit of free lunch here where it's just us tightening our belts. But I do think the big tradeoff here for the cost takeouts is in sort of reducing the scope of what we offer on the solution side when we walk into a customer site and that's a strategic choice.

我們現在對解決方案業務的銷售地點和產品更加嚴格，以便我們能夠更有效率地交付。換句話說，就是銷售我們以前做過很多次的東西。然後我們透過工具銷售來擴大規模，我稍後會談到。所以這裡有一點免費的午餐，只是我們要勒緊褲腰帶。但我確實認為，成本支出的重大權衡在於，當我們走進客戶現場時，縮小了我們在解決方案方面提供的範圍，這是一個策略選擇。

Okay. I want to spend another minute on our site consolidation as that's moved about six months faster than we previously planned. So very happy about this. So in September, we announced the sale -- I'll just go through a few of these. You can see on the map, sites that are closed and also sites where we've been able to even sublease some of those closed sites.

好的。我想再花一分鐘時間來討論我們的網站整合，因為這比我們之前的計劃快了大約六個月。對此非常高興。所以在九月份，我們宣布了出售——我將簡單介紹其中的一些。您可以在地圖上看到已關閉的站點，以及我們甚至能夠轉租其中一些已關閉站點的站點。

So in September, when we announced the sale of Altar, our French subsidiary, to Lesaffre. This acquisition allows Ginkgo to save these costs and simplify our operations, but we still get to access the technology developed at Altar, which was important to us.

因此，在 9 月份，我們宣布將法國子公司 Altar 出售給樂斯福 (Lesaffre)。此次收購使 Ginkgo 節省了這些成本並簡化了我們的運營，但我們仍然可以使用 Altar 開發的技術，這對我們很重要。

So I want to say congrats to the team for getting this deal done. Lesaffre is a great home for this technology to live, but also importantly, for the Ginkgo employees that came in from Altar and are able to go to Lesaffre. And that technology will be deployed well in-house there. We have also worked to shut down our operations in the Netherlands and expect the site to be closed on December 1. Within the U.S., we expect to have fully consolidated our Boston area footprint by the end of the year, which is approximately six months ahead of schedule.

所以我想對團隊完成這筆交易表示祝賀。樂斯福是這項技術賴以生存的偉大家園，但同樣重要的是，對於從 Altar 來到樂斯福的 Ginkgo 員工來說，也很重要。該技術將在內部得到很好的部署。我們也努力關閉在荷蘭的業務，預計該站點將於 12 月 1 日關閉。在美國，我們預計到今年年底將完全鞏固我們在波士頓地區的業務，比原計劃提前了大約六個月。

We fully closed [Atwell], have fully closed our Cambridge locations by the end of November, one is already done and we're staying at our current site rather than moving into Biofab1, that's the Parcel O site. We could get into Biofab1 in the future as we expand our business. I hope we do. And in the meantime, there are a few of the floors that are ready for sublease. So please feel free to send people our way that are looking for great 60% lab, 40% office space here in Boston.

我們完全關閉了 [Atwell]，在 11 月底之前完全關閉了我們的劍橋工廠，其中一個已經完成，我們將留在目前的工廠，而不是搬到 Biofab1，即 Parcel O 工廠。未來隨著業務的拓展，我們可能會進入Biofab1。我希望我們能做到。同時，也有一些樓層已準備好轉租。因此，請隨時向我們推薦正在波士頓尋找 60% 實驗室、40% 辦公空間的人員。

I'm happy with the progress we made on our cost-cutting initiatives thus far, but we have more steps we can still take to further reduce costs. So I mentioned we're looking to sublease. Again, don't hesitate to send people. We're also optimizing our lab supply and spend and reducing inventory. And lastly, we're looking to continue to rationalize across all our expenses, both people and non-people.

我對迄今為止我們在成本削減措施上取得的進展感到高興，但我們仍然可以採取更多措施來進一步降低成本。所以我提到我們正在尋求轉租。再一次，毫不猶豫地派人去。我們還優化實驗室供應和支出並減少庫存。最後，我們希望繼續合理化我們所有的開支，包括人員和非人員費用。

We made an absolute ton of changes over the summer here, and we have a much better picture now of what's working and not working after those changes. And I still see lots of opportunity to boost productivity and capitalize on cost-saving opportunities throughout the whole company. If we do this, I hope we can even exceed our $200 million cost takeout target on an annualized run rate basis by the middle of next year, while still delivering well for customers and adding new customers.

整個夏天我們在這裡進行了大量的改變，現在我們對這些改變之後哪些有效、哪些無效有了更好的了解。我仍然看到整個公司有很多提高生產力和利用節省成本的機會。如果我們這樣做，我希望我們甚至可以在明年年中超過按年化運行率計算的 2 億美元成本支出目標，同時仍然為客戶提供良好的服務並增加新客戶。

Okay. That's an update on where we expect our cost takeouts to come from. Next, I want to talk about our Cell Engineering business and where we're seeing customer success. So as a reminder of what we discussed last quarter, this is how I see our offerings at Ginkgo.

好的。這是我們預計成本支出來自何處的最新資訊。接下來，我想談談我們的細胞工程業務以及我們在哪些方面看到了客戶的成功。因此，為了提醒我們上季討論的內容，這就是我對 Ginkgo 產品的看法。

So on the y-axis here, you can see how customized and offering it is that we're offering to our customer, right? And so as well as the amount of technical risk we take as you kind of go up that axis. As they go up, you get the most extreme form sort of a custom, high technical risk, B2B solution. In other words, developing a drug asset at a small biotech and hoping you can sell it to a large biopharma. That's sort of like the top of that curve.

因此，在此處的 y 軸上，您可以看到我們為客戶提供的客製化和服務的程度，對吧？當你沿著這條軸線往上走時，我們所承擔的技術風險也是如此。隨著它們的上升，您將獲得最極端的形式，即客製化的、高技術風險的 B2B 解決方案。換句話說，在小型生物技術公司開發藥物資產，並希望可以將其出售給大型生物製藥公司。這有點像曲線的頂部。

We don't do that at Ginkgo. We've never done it at Ginkgo. We're not planning to start adding a pipeline.

我們 Ginkgo 不這樣做。我們在 Ginkgo 從來沒有這樣做過。我們不打算開始添加管道。

But what we have done is what we call our Cell Engineering solutions. And in this business, we bear less technical risk than we would if we were doing this ourselves, but we do bear some, right? So you saw that milestone we announced with Merck this morning. That's as a result of us achieving a technical goal that was uncertain whether we would be able to do that, okay?

但我們所做的就是我們所謂的細胞工程解決方案。在這項業務中，我們承擔的技術風險比我們自己做的要少，但我們確實承擔了一些，對嗎？所以你看到了我們今天早上與默克公司宣布的里程碑。這是因為我們實現了一個技術目標，但不確定我們是否能夠做到這一點，好嗎？

Because we're taking that risk, and because it's so custom for the customer, we are able to ask for commercial milestones and royalties in many cases, on the products that come out of our solutions deals. So that dotted line in the middle, you can see to the left of it, those are things where we can take those royalties. This is a good business, okay? It has tons of upside potential in the milestones and royalties. But the time that those products take to go to market, especially for biopharma is very slow, all right?

因為我們承擔了這種風險，並且因為它是為客戶量身定制的，所以在許多情況下，我們能夠對我們的解決方案交易中產生的產品要求商業里程碑和特許權使用費。所以中間的虛線，你可以看到它的左邊，這些是我們可以收取版稅的地方。這是一樁好生意，好嗎？它在里程碑和特許權使用費方面具有巨大的上升潛力。但這些產品進入市場的時間，特別是生物製藥的時間非常慢，好嗎？

So a lot of our challenges have been -- we had a lot of this in the industrial sector that goes to market quicker. That dried up a lot over the last couple of years. We're doing more business in biopharma, but the time to those milestones and royalties takes a while. And so a lot of our changes in solutions is to reduce our costs down somewhere closer to where the revenues get from the fees for these deals are.

所以我們面臨的許多挑戰是──我們在工業領域遇到了許多這樣的挑戰，這些挑戰可以更快進入市場。在過去的幾年裡，這種情況已經乾涸了很多。我們在生物製藥領域開展了更多業務，但實現這些里程碑和特許權使用費需要一段時間。因此，我們對解決方案的許多改變都是為了將我們的成本降低到更接近這些交易費用的收入水平。

So in other words, we don't need to wait -- we don't need to be in a rush for those milestones and royalties to hit. We can just patiently wait and see those higher returns over time as our customers commercialize products. In the meantime, while we wait for that, we're finding ways to sell our same set of underlying assets, our robotics, our data and AI models, our ability to generate complex lab data at scale via our tools business model. And so this is the right-hand side of that dotted lines. We're not asking for royalties.

換句話說，我們不需要等待——我們不需要急於達到這些里程碑和版稅。隨著我們的客戶將產品商業化，我們可以耐心等待，並隨著時間的推移看到更高的回報。同時，在我們等待的同時，我們正在尋找方法來出售我們的同一組基礎資產、我們的機器人、我們的數據和人工智慧模型，以及我們透過我們的工具業務模型大規模生成複雜實驗室數據的能力。這是虛線的右側。我們不要求版稅。

The customer owns the intellectual property developed in the project and so on, and we're just charging service fees or charging for equipment.

客戶擁有專案中開發的智慧財產權等，我們只收取服務費或設備費。

In the last quarter, we made a ton of announcements launching our first products with our AI API, our robotics offering and our data points offering. I'm going to talk about data points in a minute, but first, I want to give a quick update on how things are going in solutions. So I'm super proud of the work. The solutions team has been doing at Ginkgo, enormous amount of change in that group. And while all that's been having, they've been delivering.

在上個季度，我們發布了大量公告，推出了具有 AI API、機器人產品和數據點產品的首款產品。我將在一分鐘內討論數據點，但首先，我想快速介紹解決方案的進展。所以我對這份工作感到非常自豪。解決方案團隊一直在 Ginkgo 進行大量的變革。儘管已經擁有了這一切，但他們一直在交付。

I'd like to highlight the announcement this morning that I mentioned with Merck. This program surrounds our previously announced biologic manufacturing work. The Ginkgo team has reached our first technical milestone. This is a real tour-de-force and very impressive to our customer and also comes along with a research milestone payment of $9 million in cash, which will be reflected in our Q4 financials.

我想強調一下今天早上我與默克公司提到的公告。該計劃圍繞著我們之前宣布的生物製造工作。Ginkgo 團隊已經達到了我們的第一個技術里程碑。這是一次真正的傑作，給我們的客戶留下了深刻的印象，並且還附帶了 900 萬美元的研究里程碑現金付款，這將反映在我們第四季度的財務數據中。

We're excited by the work we completed here. We're even more excited about the next stages of this program as we continue to build our relationship with Merck. Next, beyond reaching specific technical milestones with customers. We've also worked to add new customer deals, for example, the ones we're showing here with Novo Nordisk. So this has happened over the past few years.

我們對在這裡完成的工作感到興奮。隨著我們繼續與默克建立合作關係，我們對該計劃的下一階段感到更加興奮。接下來，不僅僅是與客戶一起達到特定的技術里程碑。我們也努力添加新的客戶優惠，例如我們在這裡展示的與諾和諾德 (Novo Nordisk) 合作的優惠。所以過去幾年發生了這種情況。

Several times, we've expanded our relationship most recently announcing a new deal surrounding an umbrella agreement that allows us to add more programs with Novo more efficiently. In other words, we don't have to renegotiate it to launch new work. This has resulted in a new partnership with Novo focused on the discovery and development of proteins.

我們多次擴大了我們的關係，最近宣布了一項圍繞總括協議的新協議，使我們能夠更有效地與 Novo 合作添加更多項目。換句話說，我們不需要重新談判就可以推出新的作品。這導致與 Novo 建立了新的合作夥伴關係，專注於蛋白質的發現和發展。

Additionally, we also recently expanded our previously announced collaboration for expression systems for pharmaceutical products. So it's expanding our old work, adding new work. This is the first time we are speaking about these new and updated deals publicly, but I'm really excited about the opportunity that this illustrates because I believe the ability to reach our revenue and EBITDA targets relies heavily on our ability to execute inside sales deals with key customers. In other words, when you see us signing up a new large biopharma for the first time, and we'll talk about we're doing some of that now with our data points products, that's kind of where we were back with Novo in June of '22, right?

此外，我們最近也擴大了先前宣布的藥品表達系統合作。所以它正在擴展我們的舊工作，增加新的工作。這是我們第一次公開談論這些新的和更新的交易，但我對這說明的機會感到非常興奮，因為我相信實現我們的收入和EBITDA 目標的能力在很大程度上取決於我們執行內部銷售交易的能力與主要客戶。換句話說，當你看到我們第一次與一家新的大型生物製藥公司簽約時，我們會談論我們現在正在用我們的數據點產品做一些事情，這就是我們六月與 Novo 合作的情況22年的，對吧？

Your first getting that relationship going, you're proving yourself to customer, but success breeds success in these relationships particularly in solutions given the close relationship with the partners team needed in these complex R&D partnerships. So I'm really excited about this. I think you'll see us keep doing this again and again, particularly with the large biopharma customers.

第一次建立這種關係，就是向客戶證明自己，但成功會在這些關係中孕育成功，特別是在解決方案方面，因為這些複雜的研發夥伴關係需要與合作夥伴團隊的密切關係。所以我對此感到非常興奮。我想你會看到我們一次又一次地這樣做，特別是對於大型生物製藥客戶。

Okay. So now I want to talk about our new tools offerings and in particular, data points, which has been getting rapid traction in the market. Many customers, both start-ups and large biopharma companies are looking to produce large data sets to train AI models for both target discovery, and therapeutic development, okay? In other words, they want to generate these big data sets so that they can take the data in-house and train their own models to get better at these two activities.

好的。現在我想談談我們的新工具產品，特別是數據點，它在市場上迅速受到關注。許多客戶，無論是新創公司還是大型生物製藥公司，都在尋求產生大型資料集來訓練用於目標發現和治療開發的人工智慧模型，好嗎？換句話說，他們希望產生這些大數據集，以便他們可以在內部獲取資料並訓練自己的模型，以便更好地完成這兩項活動。

So our first data points product is what we call functional genomics, and it provides large perturbation data sets to power really target discovery AI models at our customers' sites. This product addresses key problems customers face when training these AI models, data availability, quality and uniformity. We generate large high-fidelity transcriptomic and phenotypic data sets in the disease context of your choice as the customer.

因此，我們的第一個數據點產品就是我們所謂的功能基因組學，它提供大量擾動數據集，為我們客戶現場的真正目標發現人工智慧模型提供支援。該產品解決了客戶在訓練這些人工智慧模型、資料可用性、品質和一致性時面臨的關鍵問題。我們根據您作為客戶選擇的疾病背景產生大量高保真轉錄組和表型資料集。

We introduced genetics changes, in other words, like CRISPR edits and chemical perturbations such as a compound library in major cell types, including your own internal cell line, if that's what you're interested in. And we provide you with your readouts of choice. Our highly automated workflow means we can deliver data as quickly as three weeks for chemical screens and within three months for genetic screens, depending on the type of cells used and the type of genetic perturbation you're looking for. And the great thing is we can do this over 10,000 perturbations for both chemical and genetics. So the sort of scale of data you need really for AI model training.

換句話說，我們引入了遺傳學變化，例如 CRISPR 編輯和化學擾動，例如主要細胞類型的化合物庫，包括您自己的內部細胞系，如果您對此感興趣的話。我們為您提供您選擇的讀數。我們高度自動化的工作流程意味著我們可以在三週內快速提供化學篩選數據，並在三個月內提供基因篩選數據，具體取決於所使用的細胞類型和您正在尋找的遺傳擾動類型。最棒的是我們可以對化學和遺傳學進行 10,000 多次擾動。因此，人工智慧模型訓練真正需要的資料規模。

And we think this is really a unique service offering in the market today.

我們認為這確實是當今市場上獨一無二的服務。

We also have a sample data set that you can just go to our website and download and interact with that includes a compressed data set, metadata plus raw UMI counts and a short report detailing the workflow and data with a link to the full data set. Customers have really been loving this. So you should go over and download it if you're a bioinformatician or a drug discovery expert that wants to take a look.

我們還有一個範例資料集，您只需訪問我們的網站即可下載並與之交互，其中包括壓縮資料集、元資料和原始UMI 計數以及詳細說明工作流程和資料的簡短報告以及完整資料集的鏈接。客戶真的很喜歡這個。因此，如果您是生物資訊學家或藥物發現專家想要查看的話，您應該去下載它。

Finally, I'm excited to report that we recently signed deals with a leading tech bio company as well as a top 10 pharma company for functional genomics, and these will be reflected in our Q4 program count, okay? The second data point product we launched just a couple of weeks ago is antibody developability, okay? This is applied more on the development of a new drug asset, our world-class wet lab infrastructure offers customers the scale and breadth to unlock AI in this area.

最後，我很高興地向大家報告，我們最近與一家領先的科技生物公司以及一家功能基因組學領域排名前十的製藥公司簽署了協議，這些將反映在我們第四季度的項目計數中，好嗎？我們幾週前推出的第二個數據點產品是抗體可開發性，好嗎？這更多地應用於新藥物資產的開發，我們世界一流的濕實驗室基礎設施為客戶提供了在該領域解鎖人工智慧的規模和廣度。

We basically ask a customer to send us their antibody sequences as input, okay? And then we perform wet lab workflows and high throughput and then give back that AI-ready data set. And so in this case, we are synthesizing, expressing and purifying the antibodies. We're performing broad biophysical characterization across 10-plus developability assays to analyzing and integrating that data and then giving it back in a way that your ML team can work with.

我們基本上要求客戶向我們發送他們的抗體序列作為輸入，好嗎？然後我們執行濕實驗室工作流程和高通量，然後返回人工智慧就緒的資料集。因此，在這種情況下，我們正在合成、表達和純化抗體。我們正在透過 10 多項可開發性測定進行廣泛的生物物理表徵，以分析和整合這些數據，然後以您的 ML 團隊可以使用的方式將其返回。

And just like functional genomics, we've already created a sample data set. We produced and tested 20 IgG antibodies that were previously characterized in (inaudible), sort of a famous antibody paper back in 2017. And you can just download that data set on our website right now. But we also expanded on this and tested another 200-plus commercial antibodies with the same set of developability assays. And if you reach out to e-mail us, you can get access to that, too.

就像功能基因組學一樣，我們已經創建了一個樣本資料集。我們生產並測試了 20 種 IgG 抗體，這些抗體先前在（聽不清楚）2017 年的一篇著名抗體論文中進行了表徵。您現在就可以在我們的網站上下載該資料集。但我們也對此進行了擴展，並使用同一套可開發性測定測試了另外 200 多種商業抗體。如果您給我們發送電子郵件，您也可以獲得該資訊。

Okay. The downloadable data set includes assay parameters and data output for each of these 10 different assays. There's also read me file with more details on the assays and descriptions of the fields and the data set. Similar to our functional genomics offering, we've already signed a pilot deal with a top 25 pharma company which will be in our Q4 program count. And one of the things that really excites me is that because the data point deals are initially smaller than solutions and don't involve royalties, we're able to sell them to customers via traditional procurement channels.

好的。可下載的資料集包括這 10 種不同測定中每一種的測定參數和資料輸出。還有讀我文件，其中包含有關欄位和資料集的分析和描述的更多詳細資訊。與我們的功能基因組學產品類似，我們已經與一家排名前 25 名的製藥公司簽署了一項試點協議，該協議將包含在我們第四季度的計劃中。真正讓我興奮的事情之一是，由於數據點交易最初比解決方案小，並且不涉及版稅，因此我們能夠透過傳統採購管道將它們出售給客戶。

In other words, it's a much faster sales cycle than we see in solutions where we're really working with the BD group at our customer and sort of doing a longer deal and partnership. It can be as short as a few weeks to close one of these deals. This is especially exciting when it allows us to get a first deal with a new large biopharma that we don't have a relationship with, and we had a couple of those.

換句話說，這是一個比我們在解決方案中看到的要快得多的銷售週期，在解決方案中，我們真正與客戶的 BD 團隊合作，並進行了更長的交易和合作夥伴關係。其中一筆交易的完成可能只需幾週。這是特別令人興奮的，因為它使我們能夠與一家與我們沒有關係的新的大型生物製藥公司達成第一筆交易，而我們已經達成了幾筆交易。

And so if we can prove ourselves in data points, I think it will help us sell solutions or robotics offerings in the future. So super excited about this. And again, congratulations to the data points team at Ginkgo for getting those projects launched and adopted so quickly.

因此，如果我們能夠在數據點上證明自己，我認為這將有助於我們在未來銷售解決方案或機器人產品。對此非常興奮。再次恭喜 Ginkgo 的數據點團隊如此迅速地啟動和採用了這些專案。

All right. So that illustrates the catalyst we're seeing within our Cell Engineering business. I'm now going to turn to what we're seeing within our Biosecurity business, especially with the recent spread of H5N1 in the U.S. and now actually recently in Canada, too.

好的。這說明了我們在細胞工程業務中看到的催化劑。我現在要談談我們在生物安全業務中看到的情況，特別是最近 H5N1 在美國的傳播，實際上最近在加拿大也出現了這種情況。

Now we talked about H5N1 last quarter. But here, you can see how the spread of this disease has evolved just over the last few months. We've gone from how the flu is spreading and how it's impacting birds and livestock and wildlife to large detections of the disease in humans and how this could turn into the next pandemic if we don't take it seriously. Last quarter, I spoke about how we were working to validate our novel method for genomic surveillance of H5N1 among dairy cow populations.

現在我們談論上個季度的 H5N1。但在這裡，您可以看到這種疾病的傳播在過去幾個月中是如何演變的。我們已經從流感如何傳播以及它如何影響鳥類、牲畜和野生動物，到在人類中大量檢測到這種疾病，以及如果我們不認真對待它如何可能演變成下一次大流行。上個季度，我談到了我們如何努力驗證我們在乳牛群體中進行 H5N1 基因組監測的新方法。

You can see by our map on the left, which pulls together a number of public databases that the spread is impacting several species now, including humans. Because of this rapid spread, we're updating our offering to include DNA sequencing of raw milk, bioinformatics as a service and then comprehensive analyzed data sets.

您可以透過我們左側的地圖看到，該地圖匯集了許多公共資料庫，表明這種傳播現在正在影響包括人類在內的多個物種。由於這種快速傳播，我們正在更新我們的產品，包括原乳 DNA 定序、生物資訊服務以及綜合分析資料集。

Our first testing method detects and provides genomic information for Flu A in raw milk. Our genomic sequencing delivers necessary information to accelerate development of diagnostics, vaccines and therapeutics and also gives early warnings. This is, I think, a pretty clever approach where we test raw milk after it's all pulled together from a bunch of different farms. This protects farmers privacy. People are concerned.

我們的第一個測試方法可檢測並提供原料乳中甲型流感病毒的基因組資訊。我們的基因組定序提供必要的信息，以加速診斷、疫苗和治療方法的開發，並提供早期預警。我認為，這是一種非常聰明的方法，我們在將來自多個不同農場的原料奶混合在一起後對其進行測試。這保護了農民的隱私。人們很擔心。

There's a lot of analogs here to what we saw with COVID where people don't necessarily want to know that they have this because it has economic impacts. And so this protects farmers privacy as well as offering insights that might not otherwise be gleaned if only tracking symptomatic cows.

這與我們在新冠病毒中看到的情況有許多類似之處，人們不一定想知道自己感染了這種病毒，因為它會產生經濟影響。因此，這保護了農民的隱私，並提供瞭如果僅追蹤有症狀的乳牛可能無法收集到的見解。

Next, we have bioinformatics as a service, our bioinformatic specialist give in-depth analysis of genomic information through a suite of capabilities and tools, including data and insights generation from any samples. It could be from raw milk or wastewater, state-of-the-art AI tools to process that data and then finally, custom analysis of the genome. In other words, is this a viral sequence I should be especially worried about or not?

接下來，我們提供生物資訊服務，我們的生物資訊專家透過一套功能和工具對基因組資訊進行深入分析，包括從任何樣本產生數據和見解。它可能來自生牛奶或廢水，最先進的人工智慧工具來處理這些數據，最後是基因組的客製化分析。換句話說，這是我應該特別擔心的病毒序列嗎？

And lastly, we can offer comprehensive analyzed data sets. We bring in a bunch of data sets and data streams at scale, including our proprietary international nodes for aircraft wastewater that we've talked about before, also wildlife surveillance and so on. And this data has been integrated, analyzed and standardized to give consistent results and comparability across sets.

最後，我們可以提供全面的分析資料集。我們大規模引入了大量資料集和資料流，包括我們之前討論過的飛機廢水專有國際節點，還有野生動物監測等。這些數據經過整合、分析和標準化，可提供一致的結果和跨組的可比性。

And with that, this landscape of integrated data, we can create sort of a common operating picture to give actual insights to decision-makers typically in governments. With last week's CDC announcement, highlighting the need to identify and implement strategies to prevent transmission among dairy cattle to reduce worker exposures, which is focused on timely identification of infected herds to support the rapid initiation of monitoring testing and treatment of human illness.

有了這種綜合資料景觀，我們就可以創建一個通用的操作圖，為政府決策者提供實際的見解。疾病預防控制中心上周宣布，強調需要確定和實施預防乳牛傳播的策略，以減少工人的接觸，其重點是及時識別受感染的牛群，以支持快速啟動人類疾病的監測檢測和治療。

What -- I think you're seeing CDC start to lean in. We're hopeful Ginkgo can play a role in these efforts. Look, the thing we're trying to avoid -- everyone wants to avoid here is human-to-human transition of this disease. And what's happening is it's spreading in livestock, different animals, humans that are close to that, are occasionally getting it. And the question is, will it mutate in a way that allows a human to spread it to a human.

什麼——我認為你看到疾病預防控制中心開始傾斜。我們希望 Ginkgo 能夠在這些努力中發揮作用。聽著，我們試圖避免的事情——每個人都想避免的是這種疾病在人與人之間的傳播。正在發生的事情是，它正在牲畜、不同的動物以及與之相近的人類中傳播，偶爾也會感染它。問題是，它是否會發生變異，從而允許人類將其傳播給人類。

If that happens, that is very bad.

如果發生這種情況，那就非常糟糕了。

So we're continuing to socialize these threats with the U.S. government, so people hear things like what I just said and we're currently in discussion with potential commercial partners to expand our testing capabilities. As you can see on the slide, there are some but that allow us to get into sort of about 50% of the milk supply for monitoring.

因此，我們將繼續與美國政府交流這些威脅，以便人們聽到我剛才所說的內容，我們目前正在與潛在的商業合作夥伴討論以擴大我們的測試能力。正如您在幻燈片上看到的，有一些可以讓我們進入大約 50% 的牛奶供應進行監控。

Bottom line is there is currently low participation in the government offered voluntary programs that are happening today. So this is not a business for us yet here, but we think our approach offers a very common sense solution that sort of protects farmers and producers, but allows this milk supply to still be tested to help us mitigate spread and reduce the odds of human-to-human transition.

最重要的是，目前政府提供的自願計畫的參與度很低。因此，這對我們來說還不是生意，但我們認為我們的方法提供了一個非常常識性的解決方案，可以保護農民和生產者，但仍允許對牛奶供應進行測試，以幫助我們減輕傳播並減少人類感染的可能性。

Our pooled testing approach has quick turnaround on results. We know this from our K-12 testing program, large-scale surveillance can really work. We got a lot of reps handling the complexities of testing and privacy during COVID-19, let me tell you.

我們的匯總測試方法可以快速獲得結果。從我們的 K-12 測試計劃中我們知道，大規模監視確實可以發揮作用。讓我告訴您，在 COVID-19 期間，我們有很多代表處理複雜的測試和隱私問題。

So we stand ready to support the dairy industry with the tools that can be used the same way for herds as well as exposed farm workers. This is a good idea, and I hope the U.S. government stays on top of it.

因此，我們隨時準備為乳製品行業提供支持，這些工具可用於牛群以及暴露的農場工人。這是一個好主意，我希望美國政府能夠繼續關注它。

Okay. In conclusion, I'm extremely proud of our execution this quarter as we continue to cut back our cost while still delivering on our revenue target and on critical technical milestones for our customers. We deliver for our customers, both with our traditional offerings and our new tools offerings such as data points and I'm excited for the opportunity we have ahead of us as we continue to strive towards adjusted EBITDA breakeven by mid-2026, while maintaining that cash margin of safety.

好的。總而言之，我對本季的執行情況感到非常自豪，因為我們繼續削減成本，同時仍為客戶實現我們的收入目標和關鍵技術里程碑。我們透過傳統產品和數據點等新工具產品為客戶提供服務，我對我們面前的機會感到興奮，因為我們將繼續努力在 2026 年中期實現調整後 EBITDA 盈虧平衡，同時保持這一目標現金安全邊際。

All right. Now I'll hand it back to Megan for Q&A.

好的。現在我將把它交還給梅根進行問答。

Great. Thanks, Jason. As usual, I'll start with the question from the public. (Event Instructions)

偉大的。謝謝，傑森。像往常一樣，我將從公眾的問題開始。（活動須知）

Welcome back, everyone. As usual, we'll start with a retail question, and then we will go down our list of analysts. So Tejas, you'll be up first after our retail question. But the first one is from our investor box and is for you, Jason. Can you provide more clarity into what the company's strategy is?

歡迎回來，大家。像往常一樣，我們將從零售問題開始，然後我們將討論分析師名單。Tejas，在我們的零售問題之後你將首先發言。但第一個來自我們的投資者箱，是給你的，傑森。您能否更清楚地介紹一下公司的策略是什麼？

With the new tools business, it feels like Ginkgo is pursuing a lot of different opportunities with an unknown return.

透過新的工具業務，感覺 Ginkgo 正在追求許多不同的機會，但回報未知。

Yes. That's a good question. And I tried to show a chart with that curve on it during the earnings call to describe a little bit of this, but Ginkgo has our historical solutions business and we are expanding into tools and I'll give a little bit of the reasoning behind the strategy. So the major takeaway I have being out in the market recently is I think Ginkgo is still uniquely kind of providing advanced bioengineering technologies at a level I don't see other companies really working on.

是的。這是個好問題。我試圖在財報電話會議期間展示一張帶有該曲線的圖表來描述這一點，但 Ginkgo 擁有我們歷史上的解決方案業務，我們正在擴展到工具領域，我將給出一些背後的推理策略。因此，我最近在市場上得到的主要收穫是，我認為 Ginkgo 仍然以獨特的方式提供先進的生物工程技術，其水平是我沒有看到其他公司真正致力於的水平。

So I think we remain a very unique technical asset in the market. And so -- and I don't see a lot of places nipping at our heels at the moment. So I think the biggest thing in this kind of like biotech market downturn right now is Ginkgo needs to be there on the other side of this to then grow into all demand that those of us who believe in the biotech industry fundamentally expect we'll be there. And so my overwhelming focus is really on us getting to breakeven.

所以我認為我們仍然是市場上非常獨特的技術資產。因此，我目前沒有看到很多地方緊跟著我們的腳步。因此，我認為目前這種生物技術市場低迷中最重要的事情是銀杏需要出現在這一點的另一邊，然後才能滿足我們這些相信生物技術行業的人從根本上期望我們能夠滿足的所有需求。 。因此，我的主要關注點實際上是我們實現收支平衡。

In other words, Ginkgo not needing to raise more capital, tightening our spending, getting our cash burn down. Those folks of the company that are listening today know that, that is sort of what's getting pounded in across the organization. So that's the focus.

換句話說，Ginkgo 不需要籌集更多資金，收緊我們的支出，讓我們的現金耗盡。今天聆聽的公司人員都知道，這就是整個組織正在關注的問題。這就是重點。

Okay. So then why are we expanding into tools? Well, the simple reason is, it allows us to take assets we already have, our robotics, our data and AI infrastructure and our ability to generate complex data sets with the data points offering and basically sell our existing assets in a new way. I don't need to spend years building out a new product line to then go and launch it. We're already, as you saw, signing up new large customers in these tools businesses already.

好的。那我們為什麼要擴展到工具領域呢？原因很簡單，它使我們能夠利用我們已有的資產、我們的機器人、我們的數據和人工智慧基礎設施，以及我們透過提供的數據點生成複雜數據集的能力，並基本上以一種新的方式出售我們現有的資產。我不需要花費數年時間建立新產品線然後再推出它。正如您所看到的，我們已經在這些工具業務中簽署了新的大客戶。

And that's because those assets were already there.

那是因為這些資產已經存在。

And so my hope is this is really a new go-to-market motion that adds revenue to an existing base without adding a lot of additional cost to develop that product. And so that's why we're doing the strategy we are. So even though it is adding a new thing, it's really a new way to sell assets we already have.

因此，我希望這確實是一項新的上市動議，可以增加現有基礎的收入，而不會增加開發該產品的大量額外成本。這就是我們制定當前戰略的原因。因此，儘管它增加了一個新東西，但這確實是一種出售我們已有資產的新方式。

Thanks, Jason. Like I said, Tejas, you're up first.

謝謝，傑森。就像我說的，Tejas，你先起來。

Perfect. Jason, maybe to kick things off your -- last quarter, you talked about a narrowing of your focus in pharma and industrial along with ag. And I'm just curious as to have you started to notice a clear improvement in resource utilization and efficiency.

完美的。傑森，也許是為了拉開序幕——上個季度，您談到了縮小對製藥和工業以及農業的關注範圍。我只是好奇您是否開始注意到資源利用率和效率的明顯改善。

And sort of on a related note, one of the things that I think you guys have talked about with the large risk that you've pulled the trigger on here was chance of attrition on the delivery teams and the foundry side of the business, right? So could you just share a little bit of color on anything related to that dynamic?

與此相關的是，我認為你們已經討論過的一件事是你們扣動扳機的巨大風險是交付團隊和代工方面的業務人員流失的可能性，對吧？那麼您能否分享一下與該動態相關的任何內容？

Yes, I can speak to that. Yes. So if I restate, we were tightening -- and the way I would describe the tightening -- I think I'll say a few things. You've seen us shift over the last three years since when we went public, from having a large majority of our business in sort of the industrial biotech sector to now government and pharma and ag, which are sort of the mainstay areas of biotechnology accounting for more than 70% of our business today. And so that shift has been a function of people moving out of more like growthy new applications of biotech that were sort of supported by looser capital and people being willing to take longer-term bets in a lower interest rate environment.

是的，我可以這麼說。是的。因此，如果我重申，我們正在緊縮——以及我描述緊縮的方式——我想我會說幾件事。自上市以來，您已經看到我們在過去三年中發生了轉變，從我們的大部分業務屬於工業生物技術領域，到現在的政府、製藥和農業，這些都是生物技術會計的主要領域我們今天70% 以上的業務。因此，這種轉變是人們從生物技術的成長型新應用中轉移出來的結果，這些應用在某種程度上是由寬鬆的資本支持的，而且人們願意在較低的利率環境下進行長期押注。

I know we can make therapeutics. I know we can make strains and the government funds R&D. And so that -- those are really like the bedrock of biotech. And so that's where we shifted as a platform just in terms of where we were focusing in the market.

我知道我們可以進行治療。我知道我們可以製造菌株並且政府資助研發。因此，這些確實就像是生物技術的基石。因此，這就是我們作為平台的轉變，就我們關注的市場方向而言。

Separately, we have -- even in those areas, like I said on the call, we won't just walk in and say, "I'll do any type of cell engineering for you now." We have our lines of business, protein production and protein design, enzyme engineering, a variety of things that are sort of what we're good at, RNA work, for example. And so we'll go in and pitch that in solutions, but not anything under the sun, all right?

另外，即使在這些領域，就像我在電話中所說的那樣，我們也不會只是走進來說：“我現在將為您進行任何類型的細胞工程。”我們有自己的業務範圍，蛋白質生產和蛋白質設計，酶工程，各種我們擅長的事情，例如RNA工作。因此，我們將介入並在解決方案中提出這一點，但不是在陽光下的任何東西，好嗎？

And that focusing I do -- it is what has allowed us to bring cost down and be able to actually beat costs while still holding on our revenue targets. And so I do think we are seeing those efficiency gains of that focus, Tejas. That's exactly what you see in the numbers this quarter.

我所做的這種專注，使我們能夠降低成本，並能夠在保持收入目標的同時真正擊敗成本。因此，我確實認為我們正在看到專注於這一點的效率提升，Tejas。這正是您在本季度的數字中看到的。

In terms of the RIF and attrition, yes, that's something we watch closely, right? I think the team has done an amazing job being able, again, with those areas of focus, really rebuild how we do our work at the company to deliver it more efficiently. And so I'm hopeful we can keep doing that, driving down costs in the future. It feels like a good direction. And then the hope is, again, same base assets, we start being able to sell them in a new way with solutions, and that helps us close the gap on cash spending.

就 RIF 和人員流失而言，是的，這是我們密切關注的事情，對嗎？我認為團隊做得非常出色，能夠再次在這些重點領域中真正重建我們在公司的工作方式，以更有效地交付工作。因此，我希望我們能夠繼續這樣做，從而降低未來的成本。感覺這是一個很好的方向。然後，我們再次希望，同樣的基礎資產，我們開始能夠透過解決方案以新的方式出售它們，這有助於我們縮小現金支出的缺口。

Got it. That's helpful. And then a quick follow-up for me. Biopharma funding, any signs of sequential stabilization? I think it's too early to call an inflection.

知道了。這很有幫助。然後是我的快速跟進。生物製藥融資是否有連續穩定的跡象？我認為現在稱之為變形還為時過早。

No one is kind of like there yet, but curious as to what you guys are seeing in your conversations.

目前還沒有人有這樣的想法，但對你們在談話中看到的內容感到好奇。

And then on the Biosecurity side, one of the questions that we've been getting of late -- just given the election outcome, how confident are you that the government is committed to funding these Biosecurity initiatives, pathogen monitoring in airports or even H5N1 surveillance that you called out. I think on one of Mark's slides, actually, there were a bunch of government programs even on the Cell Engineering side this quarter. So any color you can share on anything shifting in your mind as it relates to the election?

然後在生物安全方面，我們最近收到的問題之一 - 考慮到選舉結果，您對政府致力於資助這些生物安全措施、機場病原體監測甚至 H5N1 監測有多大信心你喊出來的。我認為在馬克的一張幻燈片上，實際上，本季甚至在細胞工程方面也有很多政府專案。那麼，您可以分享一下與選舉有關的任何想法變化嗎？

Yes. So I can take this both again. So on the biopharma side, are we seeing increases in sort of venture capital and growth and R&D spending generally. I think yes, like signs of life, green shoots a bit. It's still like a tough time, I would say, in general in biotech.

是的。所以我可以再次接受這兩者。因此，在生物製藥方面，我們是否看到創投、成長和研發支出普遍增加。我想是的，就像生命的跡象，有點綠芽。我想說，總體而言，在生物技術領域，這仍然是一段艱難的時期。

We have the advantage, like I mentioned earlier, that we're getting our first deals with some major biopharma. So I've said this on calls before, but I think in the biopharma industry, it's not like Ginkgo has broadly penetrated with our offerings, right? So I think for the larger biopharmas, there's not -- it doesn't really matter what's going on with macro relative to Ginkgo today?

正如我之前提到的，我們的優勢是我們正在與一些主要生物製藥公司達成第一筆交易。所以我之前在電話中說過這一點，但我認為在生物製藥行業，Ginkgo 並沒有廣泛滲透到我們的產品中，對吧？所以我認為對於較大的生物製藥公司來說，相對於今天的銀杏來說，宏觀方面發生了什麼並不重要？

It would matter for like a Thermo or a Charles River or somebody that's sort of like in everywhere already. But Ginkgo is just much earlier in our journey. And so mostly for us, it's about getting -- getting and growing those first relationships in this area. Certainly, outside of biopharma, we got hit really hard. And so -- but I think in biopharma, it's not been too bad.

對於 Thermo、Charles River 或類似的公司來說，這很重要。但 Ginkgo 在我們的旅程中還處於早期階段。因此，對我們來說，最重要的是獲得並發展該領域的第一個關係。當然，在生物製藥之外，我們受到了非常嚴重的打擊。所以，但我認為在生物製藥領域，情況還不錯。

The start-up companies, the major thing in biopharma is our previous like R&D deal like the solutions business when it comes to start-ups was a hard sell, right? Because it starts a little more protective of their research programs. They really didn't like what we were doing with IP and other things there. And so the tools business, I think, gives us more ability to even sell to those start-ups. So we'll see how that goes.

對於新創公司來說，生物製藥領域的主要問題是我們先前的研發交易，就像解決方案業務對新創公司來說是很難推銷的，對吧？因為它開始對他們的研究項目提供更多的保護。他們真的不喜歡我們在智慧財產權和其他方面所做的事情。因此，我認為工具業務使我們更有能力向這些新創公司銷售產品。所以我們會看看情況如何。

But like I said, signs of progress there and data points that I'm excited about. Does that make sense?

但就像我說的，那裡的進展跡象和數據點讓我感到興奮。這樣有道理嗎？

Yes. I think that makes sense.

是的。我認為這是有道理的。

And then on Biosecurity and the change of administration, I'll actually point to you, Matt McKnight, who heads up our Biosecurity business, had an op-ed in The Washington Post yesterday alongside Ashish Jha, who was one of the COVID -- senior COVID coordinators in the Biden administration and then Matt Pottinger, who is on the National Security Council under the first Trump administration heading up their focus on China. And that editorial was not so much about infectious disease and public health, but really about biological weapons.

然後，關於生物安全和政府更迭，我實際上會指出你，負責我們生物安全業務的馬特·麥克奈特（Matt McKnight）昨天與新冠病毒感染者之一阿什什·賈（Ashish Jha）一起在《華盛頓郵報》上發表了一篇專欄文章——拜登政府的新冠疫情高級協調員，以及第一屆川普政府國家安全委員會成員馬特·波廷格（Matt Pottinger），負責關注中國問題。這篇社論與其說是關於傳染病和公共衛生，不如說是關於生物武器。

And so I think what you'll see with regards to this administration, we might have also seen there was a, say, a couple of weeks ago, another -- I think it was Washington Post also, article about Russia expanding, what was previously a biological weapons plant, and you can see from satellite images, expansion of a number of fermentation facilities, underground tunnels, all these sorts of things. So I think there's going to be a little bit of a shift on the defense side, monitoring the weaponization of this technology under this administration.

所以我想你會看到關於本屆政府的內容，我們可能還看到了，比如說，幾週前，另一篇——我想這也是《華盛頓郵報》，一篇關於俄羅斯擴張的文章，什麼是以前是一個生物武器工廠，從衛星圖像上可以看到，擴建了一些發酵設施，地下隧道，諸如此類的東西。因此，我認為在國防部方面將會有一些轉變，在本屆政府的領導下監控這項技術的武器化。

Next up, we have Matt Sykes at Goldman Sachs.

接下來是高盛的馬特·賽克斯 (Matt Sykes)。

Jason, maybe a high-level one for you. Just given sort of all the changes you've made, the addition of various products and services over the last year, how has the transition been towards what I would call like a multiproduct or multiservice company in a time when you're actually cutting spend as well, meaning like has that expanded market opportunity from these new products and services offset potential friction with the focus being kind of spread across multiple products? Or are there synergies between these offerings? Are the decision-makers the same ones that you might have been approaching on the cell engineering? And then to kind of close that out, like how have you changed the commercial focus of the company to make sure that the commercial team is on the same page as the product development team as you're making all of these changes?

傑森，也許對你來說是一個高等級的。考慮到你所做的所有改變，去年增加的各種產品和服務，在你實際上削減支出的時候，向我所說的多產品或多服務公司的轉變是如何的？新產品和服務帶來的擴大的市場機會是否抵消了潛在的摩擦，重點是分散在多種產品上？或者這些產品之間是否存在協同效應？決策者是否與您在細胞工程方面可能接觸過的決策者相同？最後，就像您如何改變公司的商業重點，以確保在進行所有這些更改時商業團隊與產品開發團隊處於同一頁上？

Yes. So maybe I'll speak to that from like two ads on the house internally and then at the customer. So at the customer, I think it's a net win in the sense that like we might go in talking to someone about solutions and that can be a tough sale. It really depends if we're like finding a person who really has a need or a research project they've had internally that they're stuck on or something else. And so a salesperson would be having an interaction, understanding their problems and then say, well, you might want to take a look at what we just launched with functional genomics for target discovery and neural cell or something, right?

是的。因此，也許我會透過內部和客戶的兩則廣告來談論這一點。因此，對於客戶來說，我認為這是一次淨勝利，因為我們可能會與某人討論解決方案，但這可能是一次艱難的銷售。這實際上取決於我們是否想找到一個真正有需求的人，或者他們內部有一個他們堅持的研究項目，或者其他什麼。因此，銷售人員會進行互動，了解他們的問題，然後說，好吧，您可能想看看我們剛剛推出的用於目標發現和神經細胞之類的功能基因組學，對吧？

Like that -- that's a very natural handoff and we've already had a ton of that because all of our products are focused on the research enterprise, right? It just really is a little more about like at what level in the organization, the decision maker is. So when it comes to a solutions deal, we're almost always dealing with like tiptop senior leadership in the research organization just because of the size of those deals and the fact that there's milestones and royalties. It's essentially a combination of the BD team and senior R&D leadership. But a proof of concept, "Hey, try out our antibody developability ask." You can do a proof of concept deal, that's a 100,000 or less, right?

就像這樣——這是一個非常自然的交接，我們已經進行了大量這樣的交接，因為我們所有的產品都專注於研究企業，對吧？這實際上更多的是關於決策者在組織中的層級。因此，當涉及解決方案交易時，我們幾乎總是與研究組織中的頂尖高級領導打交道，只是因為這些交易的規模以及具有里程碑和特許權使用費的事實。它本質上是業務發展團隊和高階研發領導層的結合。但概念證明，“嘿，試試我們的抗體可開發性問題。”您可以進行概念驗證交易，金額為 100,000 或更少，對吧？

So that can be picked up at the scientist level, more folks at a mid-level in the R&D organization.

因此，這可以在科學家層面、研發組織中層的更多人員身上得到體現。

That's an inlet. Now we're showing progress for an organization. I can easily see -- and we obviously haven't had enough time to do this yet, but I can see us come back after we get a few wins there and talk to people about solutions. So I do think that's on the sales side. It's actually not confusing.

那是一個入口。現在我們正在展示一個組織的進展。我可以很容易地看到 - 我們顯然還沒有足夠的時間來做到這一點，但我可以看到我們在取得一些勝利後回來並與人們討論解決方案。所以我確實認為這是銷售方面的。其實並不令人困惑。

And I think if you look at the history of life science tools companies like a Thermo or Danaher, my God, they do everything under the sun, like it's not like they've narrowed in and focused on one thing, right? And so I do think that's not that big of a deal on the customer side from like a customer confusion or anything. That's not a problem.

我想，如果你看看像 Thermo 或 Danaher 這樣的生命科學工具公司的歷史，天啊，他們在陽光下做一切事情，就像他們沒有縮小範圍並專注於一件事，對吧？所以我確實認為這對客戶來說並不是什麼大不了的事情，例如客戶的困惑或其他什麼。那不是問題。

On the internal side, there's a question of can you -- to delivering these things like additive or do they collide with each other. I think pretty good. I mean we have internally not to go too far under the hood, but have really split the teams up to make sure each one is focused on delivering its product, whether it's our solutions offering or what we're doing with these new tools businesses. So the internal teams, we have a little more said -- look, I want to focus on what you're doing, so that make sure you deliver for customers. It's the sales teams that kind of are able to jump around a little more.

在內部方面，存在一個問題：你能否提供這些東西，例如添加劑，或者它們是否會相互衝突。我覺得還不錯。我的意思是，我們在內部不要在幕後走得太遠，而是真正將團隊分開，以確保每個團隊都專注於交付其產品，無論是我們提供的解決方案還是我們在這些新工具業務上所做的事情。因此，對於內部團隊，我們還有更多要說的話——聽著，我想專注於你們正在做的事情，以便確保你們為客戶提供服務。銷售團隊能夠更有彈性地進行工作。

And so that's been working so far. But yes, you're correct, we need to keep an eye on it.

到目前為止，這一直有效。但是，是的，你是對的，我們需要密切注意。

Got it. And then, Mark, just for my follow-up. As we think about Lab Data as a Service and the data point offering, like how should we think about sort of the margin profile of these offerings. I'm assuming the capital intensity is significantly lower. And so as these things start picking up and sort of -- and the legacy cell engineering is still but these are kind of driving future growth, how should we think about sort of that breakeven point that you're reaching?

知道了。然後，馬克，我的後續行動。當我們考慮實驗室數據即服務和數據點產品時，我們應該如何考慮這些產品的利潤概況。我假設資本密集度顯著降低。因此，隨著這些事情開始好轉，傳統的細胞工程仍然存在，但它們正在推動未來的成長，我們應該如何考慮您正在達到的損益平衡點？

And could that accelerate bringing forward that breakeven? Are the margins that much higher and more substantial than those businesses that we could see a shift in sort of your profitability guide going forward?

這會加速實現損益平衡嗎？利潤率是否比那些我們可以看到您的獲利指南變化的業務更高、更可觀？

I mean it's still early days on the revenue side with those products. And so you really have to think about kind of at scale what would the gross margin profile look like? And certainly, we're targeting margins that sort of look normal for kind of services in this space. But I think, Matt, it's just still too early like we need to get to a higher revenue scale before the margin profile for the tools businesses would have a kind of move-the-needle impact on the whole company.

我的意思是，這些產品的收入方面還處於早期階段。因此，您確實必須大規模地考慮毛利率狀況會是什麼樣子？當然，我們的目標利潤對於這個領域的服務似乎是正常的。但我認為，馬特，現在還為時過早，因為我們需要在工具業務的利潤狀況對整個公司產生某種重大影響之前達到更高的收入規模。

Next up, we have John Kim from Bank of America.

接下來是美國銀行的約翰金 (John Kim)。

So as you continue to take out costs, I would think there would continue to be also severance packages and also one-off costs. So can we expect those costs to repeat? And if so, what sort of impact should we model in for the next few quarters?

因此，當你繼續扣除成本時，我認為還會繼續存在遣散費和一次性成本。那我們可以預期這些成本會重複發生嗎？如果是這樣，我們應該為接下來的幾季模擬什麼樣的影響？

Yes. So what we've disclosed in the Q is that we would expect at this point, total onetime costs associated with the restructuring to be in a range of $18 million to $22 million. Around $15 million of that has been accrued to date. So through Q3, $15 million or $16 million of that has been accrued to date. And so that gives you a sense of sort of what would be left to go.

是的。因此，我們在 Q 中披露的是，我們預計目前與重組相關的一次性總成本將在 1800 萬美元至 2200 萬美元之間。迄今為止，其中約 1500 萬美元已累計到位。因此，截至第三季度，迄今已累計 1,500 萬美元或 1,600 萬美元。這會讓你感覺到還剩下什麼。

What that doesn't include would be things we don't know about right now or I can't estimate.

其中不包括我們現在不知道或我無法估計的事情。

So for example, when you think about a site consolidation, it's difficult to know exactly like what costs would be incurred to affect a consolidation, depending on what the sort of outcome with that space is, for example, is it a sublease or is it some other sort of type of exit. And so -- but that $18 million to $22 million, of which more than half of that has been kind of booked to date is where we're at right now.

例如，當您考慮網站整合時，很難確切地知道影響整合會產生哪些成本，這取決於該空間的結果類型，例如，它是轉租還是它其他類型的退出。所以，我們現在的處境是 1,800 萬至 2,200 萬美元，其中超過一半已經被預訂。

Our next question comes from Mark Massaro at BTIG.

我們的下一個問題來自 BTIG 的 Mark Massaro。

Yes, I appreciate all the breakouts and the detail. So you signed 11 new programs in Q3 that are sort of comparable to what you've signed in prior years. Last quarter, it was 10, is it fair to think that like this low double-digit number might be a run rate going forward, recognizing that you're clearly also promoting some data point products and fee-for-service products. So I'm just trying to get a sense, as we think about modeling out, how do you think about prioritizing sort of the traditional programs with some of the newer product offerings?

是的，我很欣賞所有的突破和細節。因此，您在第三季簽署了 11 個新計劃，這些計劃與您前幾年簽署的計劃相當。上個季度是 10，考慮到您顯然也在推廣一些數據點產品和按服務收費的產品，這樣的低兩位數數字可能是未來的運行率，這樣認為公平嗎？所以我只是想了解一下，當我們考慮建模時，您如何看待傳統專案與一些較新產品的優先順序？

Yes. That's a good question. Yes. I think you will see us -- obviously, we're trying to grow that second category of our new kind of tools deal, the ones that we had these 14 of this quarter. We love getting the solutions deals.

是的。這是個好問題。是的。我想你會看到我們——顯然，我們正在努力發展第二類新型工具交易，即我們本季的 14 項交易。我們喜歡獲得解決方案交易。

It just is a question of like the rate at which people are going to adopt these R&D partnerships.

這只是一個人們採用這些研發夥伴關係的速度的問題。

And the other thing I'll say is like it's certainly like the size, like they're more variable, right? Like just some of them are just a hell of a lot more valuable than others. And so that kind of metric is one of the reasons that we kind of decided to come off it this year. I'm not sure how indicative it is. I know solutions has always been a pain in the butt for people to try to model for us and the time, like I said, to milestones and scale of the milestones, we're obviously occasionally say how much we have in milestones, it's just a ton, but it's all sort of down the road and unpredictable a little bit.

我要說的另一件事是，就像尺寸一樣，它們的變化更大，對嗎？就像其中一些比其他的更有價值一樣。因此，這種指標是我們今年決定取消該指標的原因之一。我不確定它有多大的指示意義。我知道解決方案對於試圖為我們建模的人來說一直是一個痛苦的事情，就像我說的，對於里程碑和里程碑的規模，我們顯然偶爾會說我們在里程碑中有多少，這只是雖然很多，但一切都在路上，而且有點不可預測。

So I'm not sure -- I don't know which way it will go in terms of number. I don't think it's actually like the best way to track the progress in solutions even. But yes, as you can see across the year, it's been around that kind of low double digits.

所以我不確定——我不知道它在數量上會走向何方。我認為這實際上並不是追蹤解決方案進展的最佳方式。但是，是的，正如你在全年中看到的那樣，它一直在那種低兩位數左右。

Okay. Great. And I recognize you're not planning to provide guidance for 2025 today, though, when I look at your cell engineering services guide for this year, at the high end, you're close to growth. And so with the combination of some new product offerings, I'm curious if you think you have an opportunity to grow that business in 25. And then the second part of that is, I think last year, you reported the aggregate future cash revenue potential added, I think it was $2 billion last year.

好的。偉大的。我意識到您今天不打算提供 2025 年的指導，不過，當我查看您今年的細胞工程服務指南時，在高端，您已接近增長。因此，透過結合一些新產品，我很好奇您是否認為自己有機會在 25 年內發展該業務。第二部分是，我認為去年，您報告了未來總現金收入潛力的增加，我認為去年是 20 億美元。

Should we expect an update to that in the coming months?

我們是否應該期待在未來幾個月內對此進行更新？

You mean on that last point, Mark, you're talking about downstream value share?

馬克，你的意思是最後一點，你在談論下游價值份額？

Yes. Yes.

是的。是的。

Yes. So just to quickly address that. Yes, in the Q4 earnings call, we would provide an update on downstream value share in that portfolio, similar to what we've done over the past couple of years. On the -- on the -- sorry, Mark, can you repeat the first question?

是的。所以只是為了快速解決這個問題。是的，在第四季度的財報電話會議中，我們將提供該投資組合中下游價值份額的最新信息，類似於我們過去幾年所做的事情。關於——關於——抱歉，馬克，你能重複第一個問題嗎？

Yes, yes, yes. The first part was on the cell engineering services growth.

是的，是的，是的。第一部分是關於細胞工程服務的成長。

Yes. I think a good way to think about cell engineering growth. So yes, the tools businesses effectively starting at a baseline revenue of sort of close to 0 would be a source of growth in 2025 that would be additive to anything that you would see in the comps in 2024. So that would be true. What we don't know is sort of how much of a contributor that will be, but it would be additive.

是的。我認為這是思考細胞工程發展的好方法。因此，是的，從接近 0 的基準收入開始的工具業務將成為 2025 年的成長源，這將是您在 2024 年的比較中看到的任何內容的補充。所以這是真的。我們不知道這會產生多少貢獻，但它會是附加的。

On the solutions side, I think a good way to think about it is we're primarily focused on aligning our cost structure with revenue-generating programs that we like, given our cash burn, our objective to reduce cash burn and get to adjusted EBITDA breakeven. So we're not going to grow cell engineering solutions revenue at the expense of missing burn targets or losing the kind of cash margin of safety.

在解決方案方面，我認為考慮這個問題的一個好方法是，考慮到我們的現金消耗、我們減少現金消耗並獲得調整後的EBITDA 的目標，我們主要關注的是使我們的成本結構與我們喜歡的創收計畫維持一致收支平衡。因此，我們不會以未達到燒錢目標或失去現金安全邊際為代價來增加細胞工程解決方案的收入。

And so there is sort of a -- we will be evaluating very carefully what is like the right level of growth and where it is sort of like the real baseline for cell engineering solutions. So that's sort of the -- yes, like we could grow it, but we also only want to grow it in a way that is consistent with the cash flow profile that we're looking for in 2025.

因此，我們將非常仔細地評估什麼是正確的增長水平，以及它是否類似於細胞工程解決方案的真正基線。所以這就是——是的，就像我們可以成長它，但我們也只想以與我們在 2025 年尋找的現金流狀況一致的方式成長它。

And then just one final point. We also don't know what will happen with the capital markets. As you can see, most of our new programs has been with biopharma and government customers, not industrial biotech customers. And so if the industrial biotech market comes back then because of looser capital markets, that could also be another source of growth for us potentially in 2025.

最後一點。我們也不知道資本市場會發生什麼事。正如您所看到的，我們的大多數新專案都是針對生物製藥和政府客戶，而不是工業生物技術客戶。因此，如果工業生技市場因資本市場寬鬆而回升，這也可能成為我們 2025 年潛在成長的另一個來源。

And maybe just the extra color I'd put on that, just back to the plan -- answer to that kind of retail strategy question at the beginning. In the solutions business, I think last year, we said we had several billion dollars in these milestone payments, right? Like a lot of what this is about is can we persist to the other side of that? When I look strategically at technology competitors, I don't -- like I said, I don't see people nipping at our heels, right?

也許只是我要添加的額外色彩，回到計劃——回答一開始的那種零售策略問題。在解決方案業務中，我想去年我們說過我們在這些里程碑付款中獲得了數十億美元，對吧？就像這件事的很多內容一樣，我們能否堅持到另一邊？當我策略性地審視技術競爭對手時，我並沒有——就像我說的那樣，我沒有看到有人緊跟著我們的腳步，對嗎？

So for me in 2025, $1 taken out of cost or $1 added in revenue, I treat it the same, right? Like I really am focused on that Ginkgo does not need to raise money under adverse conditions and we make it to the other side of this. That's certainly like my strategic target because I think it's optimal, right? Like I just don't think I'm like in a crazy race. And so that's what you'll see us doing.

因此，對於 2025 年的我來說，從成本中扣除 1 美元或在收入中增加 1 美元，我對待它是一樣的，對嗎？就像我真正關注的是 Ginkgo 不需要在不利條件下籌集資金一樣，我們已經走到了這一點。這當然就像我的策略目標，因為我認為這是最佳的，對嗎？就像我只是不認為我正在參加一場瘋狂的比賽。這就是您將看到的我們正在做的事情。

Now capital markets chain, customer drive chains, then I'll come with a different strategy, like that's my job. But this -- just so you know, like Mark said, we're not going to chase revenue at the expense of cash in 25.

現在是資本市場鏈、客戶驅動鏈，然後我會採取不同的策略，就像這就是我的工作一樣。但是，正如馬克所說，我們不會在 25 年內以犧牲現金為代價來追求收入。

Other questions, Megan?

還有其他問題嗎，梅根？

Our last set of questions comes from Jackie Kisa at TD Cowen.

我們的最後一組問題來自 TD Cowen 的 Jackie Kisa。

This is Jackie on for Brendan. Just one on your AI capabilities. I'm pretty curious as to what your next steps are when you're thinking about building out your platform. Are you kind of aiming to develop larger-scale data generation capabilities and sort of drill down on that main offering? Or are you thinking of expanding into like different analysis tools and generating more of a full software platform for your customers?

這是傑基為布倫丹發言。僅介紹您的人工智慧能力。我很好奇當你考慮建立你的平台時你的下一步是什麼。您是否打算開發更大規模的數據生成功能並深入研究該主要產品？或者您正在考慮擴展到不同的分析工具並為您的客戶產生更多完整的軟體平台？

Yes, it's a good question. So the first thing I would say about AI is it's probably the most substantial like change driver in biopharma and biotech R&D departments right now. In other words, like the reason an R&D leader is looking to bring in new technology, whether it's a new service or a new piece of equipment or other stuff in software. At this moment, if you walk in, like seven out of 10 of the change drivers are going to be AI. And so that's a really good thing, right?

是的，這是一個好問題。因此，關於人工智慧，我要說的第一件事是，它可能是目前生物製藥和生物技術研發部門最重要的變革驅動因素。換句話說，就像研發領導者尋求引入新技術的原因一樣，無論是新服務、新設備或軟體中的其他內容。此時此刻，如果你走進去，你會發現十分之七的變革推動者將是人工智慧。所以這真的是件好事，對吧？

Like Ginkgo wants to be in that mix. What we've been producing out of our AI team, we've been launching these models.

就像 Ginkgo 想要加入其中一樣。我們的人工智慧團隊一直在推出這些模型。

You can go to models like ginkgobioworks.ai and go hit our API. You can access models just like you would access them at OpenAI, right? I just pay for tokens, really straightforward business, put in a credit card. The reason we're doing that is it gets us out in the community, at launch, it shows that we can push out these sort of frontier models in the protein space, bringing open source models and get them all just on an API that scientists can use, okay? So that's sort of our first volley, right?

您可以存取 ginkgobioworks.ai 等模型並存取我們的 API。您可以像在 OpenAI 上存取模型一樣存取模型，對吧？我只是支付代幣，非常簡單的事情，存入信用卡。我們這樣做的原因是它讓我們在社群中脫穎而出，在發佈時，它表明我們可以在蛋白質領域推出這些前沿模型，引入開源模型並透過科學家提供的 API 來獲取它們可以用，好嗎？這是我們的第一次截擊，對吧？

And then from there, you can take it a few different ways, like our data points business where we generate large data sets is a very natural complement to these AI models. So a customer might say, "well, great, I like this. Let's say, we recently put an mRNA model on the platform. Let's say, we had an antibody model on the platform." And I say, "Hey, look, great, I want to take that model. I want to generate a bunch of designs.

然後，您可以採取幾種不同的方式，例如我們產生大型資料集的資料點業務，是這些人工智慧模型的非常自然的補充。因此，客戶可能會說：「嗯，太好了，我喜歡這個。比方說，我們最近在平台上放置了一個 mRNA 模型。比方說，我們在平台上有一個抗體模型。我說，「嘿，看，太棒了，我想採用那個模型。我想生成一堆設計。

I want to create developability data associated with that from data points and then use it to fine-tune the model."

我想創建與數據點相關的可開發性數據，然後用它來微調模型。

All right. Well, that's getting us data points business, our AI team could offer consultancy work. We could offer cloud services around that and so on. And that's like a nice complete package. We'll see -- that's one example of a direction it could go in, maybe tons of people just start building on top of it like you see with an OpenAI, right?

好的。嗯，這為我們帶來了數據點業務，我們的人工智慧團隊可以提供諮詢工作。我們可以圍繞此提供雲端服務等等。這就像一個很好的完整包。我們會看到——這是它可能發展的方向的一個例子，也許很多人只是開始在它的基礎上進行構建，就像你在 OpenAI 中看到的那樣，對嗎？

Like that's a different direction it could go in.

就像它可以進入一個不同的方向。

So I think right now, we're being very open-minded, like the rate of change in that area, the rate you're seeing new technologies, it's all really good and really exciting. And so we'll see. Right now, but we are trying to keep -- we're watching costs. We're trying to spend a ton of money on things. And we're looking to see as the technology develops which way it's going to go.

所以我認為現在我們的態度非常開放，就像該領域的變化速度，你看到新技術的速度，這一切都非常好，非常令人興奮。我們拭目以待。現在，但我們正在努力保持——我們正在關注成本。我們正試圖在一些事情上花很多錢。我們期待隨著科技的發展，它會朝哪個方向發展。

But we do see ourselves as a leader there. And I think we're doing like first of its kind work by putting these models out, which is a straightforward API that you can pay for (inaudible). So I'm excited about the area.

但我們確實將自己視為那裡的領導者。我認為我們正在透過推出這些模型來進行此類工作，這是一個簡單的 API，您可以付費購買（聽不清楚）。所以我對這個地區感到很興奮。

That's great. And then maybe just one more on Q4 OpEx. And apologies if you mentioned this before, my YouTube really just crash at an opportune time. Given you've already hit your goal for fiscal year 24, should we expect cost savings and OpEx rate to continue at the same rate quarter-over-quarter for the fourth quarter as it did for Q3? Or do you think it's going to kind of level out a little bit when we get to Q4?

那太棒了。然後也許只是第四季度營運支出的一個。如果您之前提到過這一點，我深表歉意，我的 YouTube 確實適時崩潰了。鑑於您已經實現了第 24 財年的目標，我們是否應該預期第四季度的成本節約和營運支出率將繼續保持與第三季度相同的水平？或者您認為當我們進入第四季度時，情況會趨於平穩嗎？

Yes, you won't see the same magnitude of quarter-over-quarter reduction. But we are continuing to take costs out. Just for example, like not all of the headcount reduction that has happened this year is even reflected in the Q3 numbers, but every cost line item in the company is under a pretty high level of scrutiny. So you'll see costs come down, but it was a pretty significant drop in Q2 to Q3, and you're not going to see the same drop in Q4.

是的，您不會看到同樣幅度的季度環比減少。但我們正在繼續削減成本。舉例來說，今年發生的所有裁員都沒有反映在第三季的數據中，但公司的每個成本項目都受到相當高水準的審查。因此，您會看到成本下降，但第二季到第三季的下降相當顯著，而且您在第四季不會看到相同的下降。

That concludes the Q&A portion of the call. So I'm going to hand it over to Jason for any last closing thoughts.

電話問答部分到此結束。因此，我將把最後的總結想法交給傑森。

Closing thoughts. I think this is a great quarter. Really happy, we established sort of getting our cost out and holding the line on revenue. I think that's really been critical, and I want to congratulate the Ginkgo team on that. I will say we did have one question on the call about voluntary attrition and what's happening there.

結束思想。我認為這是一個很棒的季度。真的很高興，我們確定了某種方式來降低成本並控制收入。我認為這確實至關重要，我想就此向 Ginkgo 團隊表示祝賀。我想說的是，我們在電話會議上確實有一個關於自願減員以及那裡發生的事情的問題。

And I do want to call out there is one voluntary attrition I'm quite sad about, which is Megan, will be leaving us, she had great opportunity, good growth opportunity to go to a new place. They're very lucky to have her. So Megan, I want to say thank you for just doing a great job, being a steady hand on IR for us, particularly over the last six months, but the whole time you've been here. So thank you.

我確實想指出，有一個自願減員讓我感到非常難過，那就是梅根，她將離開我們，她有很好的機會，很好的成長機會去一個新的地方。他們很幸運能擁有她。梅根，我想說謝謝你，謝謝你做了出色的工作，為我們穩定地處理了 IR，特別是在過去的六個月裡，而且一直以來你都在這裡。所以謝謝你。

Well, thank you. And the team is in very good hands with everyone that's taking over my responsibility. So I appreciate it.

嗯，謝謝。整個團隊都得到了很好的照顧，每個人都接替了我的職責。所以我很感激。

Yes. Thanks, everybody. Appreciate the questions.

是的。謝謝大家。感謝您提出的問題。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Bye.

再見。