Deutsche Bank AG (DB) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for joining us for our third quarter 2025 results call. As usual, our Chief Executive Officer, Christian Sewing, will speak first; followed by our Chief Financial Officer, James von Moltke. The presentation, as always, is available to download in the Investor Relations section of our website, db.com.

感謝您參加我們2025年第三季業績電話會議。照例，我們的執行長克里斯蒂安·塞溫將首先發言；隨後是我們的財務長詹姆斯·馮·莫爾特克。與往常一樣，該簡報可在我們網站 db.com 的投資者關係部分下載。

Before we get started, let me just remind you that the presentation contains forward-looking statements, which may not develop as we currently expect. We therefore ask you to take notice of the precautionary warning at the end of our materials.

在正式開始之前，請允許我提醒各位，本次簡報包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述可能不會像我們目前預期的那樣發展。因此，請您注意我們資料末尾的警示訊息。

With that, let me hand over to Christian.

接下來，我將把麥克風交給克里斯蒂安。

Thank you, Ioana, and good morning from me. As you will have seen, we delivered record profitability in the first nine months of 2025. We are tracking in line with our full year 2025 goals on all dimensions. Nine months revenues at EUR24.4 billion are fully in line with our full year goal of around EUR32 billion before FX effects.

謝謝你，伊奧娜，我也向你問好。正如您所看到的，我們在 2025 年前九個月實現了創紀錄的利潤。我們在各方面都按計劃推進，預計將實現2025年全年目標。前九個月的營收為 244 億歐元，完全符合我們全年約 320 億歐元的目標（不計匯率影響）。

Adjusted costs at EUR15.2 billion are consistent with our guidance. Post-tax return on tangible equity is 10.9%, meeting our full year target of above 10%, and our cost income ratio at 63% is also consistent with our target of below 65%. Profitability is significantly stronger than in the same period of 2024, even if adjusting for the Postbank litigation provision, which impacted last year's results.

調整後的成本為 152 億歐元，與我們的預期一致。稅後有形權益報酬率為 10.9%，達到我們全年 10% 以上的目標；成本收入比為 63%，也符合我們低於 65% 的目標。即使考慮到影響去年業績的郵政銀行訴訟準備金，今年的獲利能力也明顯強於 2024 年同期。

Through organic capital generation, our CET1 ratio rose to 14.5% in the quarter. This reflects our latest share buyback program, which we completed this month and a significant proportion of next year's distributions. Asset quality remains solid. Provisions were in line with expectations, and we had no exposure to recent high-profile cases.

透過內生資本積累，本季我們的CET1比率上升至14.5%。這反映了我們最新的股票回購計劃，該計劃已於本月完成，並且佔明年分紅的很大一部分。資產品質依然穩健。各項準備金符合預期，我們沒有受到近期備受矚目的案件的影響。

In short, we are fully focused on delivering on our 2025 targets. Let me now turn to the operating leverage, which drove our profit growth on slide 3. Pre-provision profit was EUR9 billion in the first nine months of 2025, up nearly 50% year-on-year or nearly 30%, if adjusted for the Postbank litigation impact in both periods.

簡而言之，我們正全力以赴實現2025年的目標。現在讓我來談談經營槓桿，它推動了我們在投影片 3 的利潤成長。2025 年頭九個月的撥備前利潤為 90 億歐元，同比增長近 50%，如果將 Postbank 訴訟的影響在兩個時期進行調整，則同比增長近 30%。

Similarly, adjusted for the Postbank litigation impact, operating leverage was 9% and profit before tax was up 36%. We saw continued revenue growth of 7%, with momentum across the businesses. Net commission and fee income was up 5% year-on-year, while NII across key banking book segments and other funding was essentially stable. 74% of revenues came from more predictable revenue streams, the Corporate Bank, Private Bank, Asset Management and the financing business in FIC.

同樣，剔除郵政銀行訴訟的影響後，營運槓桿率為 9%，稅前利潤增加了 36%。我們看到營收持續成長7%，各業務板塊均呈現成長動能。淨佣金和手續費收入較去年同期成長5%，而主要銀行業務部門和其他融資業務的淨利息收入基本上保持穩定。 74%的收入來自較穩定的收入來源，包括公司銀行、私人銀行、資產管理以及固定收益、投資和信貸業務。

Cost discipline remains strong. Non-interest expenses were down 8% year-on-year, with significantly lower non-operating costs, largely due to the non-repeat of Postbank litigation provisions, while adjusted costs were flat.

成本控制依然穩健。非利息支出較去年同期下降 8%，非營運成本大幅降低，這主要是由於 Postbank 訴訟準備金不再重複計提，而調整後的成本則保持不變。

Let me now turn to our progress on the pillars of strategy execution on slide 4. We are on track to meet or exceed all our 2025 strategic goals. Compound annual revenue growth since 2021 was 6%, in the middle of our range of between 5.5% and 6.5%. In a changing environment, we are benefiting from a well-diversified earnings mix.

現在讓我來看看第 4 張投影片中我們在策略執行支柱方面取得的進展。我們可望實現或超越所有2025年戰略目標。自 2021 年以來的複合年收入成長率為 6%，處於我們預期的 5.5% 至 6.5% 的區間的中間位置。在不斷變化的環境中，我們受益於多元化的獲利結構。

Operational efficiencies stood at EUR2.4 billion, either delivered or expected from measures completed. In other words, 95% of our EUR2.5 billion goal. Capital efficiencies have already reached EUR30 billion in RWA reductions, the high end of our target range, and we see scope for further efficiency through year-end.

營運效率提升了 24 億歐元，這些提升要么已經實現，要么預計將透過已完成的措施實現。換句話說，我們已完成 25 億歐元目標的 95%。資本效率已透過降低風險加權資產 (RWA) 達到 300 億歐元，達到我們目標範圍的上限，我們認為到年底還有進一步提高效率的空間。

During the quarter, we launched our second share buyback program of 2025 with a value of EUR250 million, which we completed last week. This takes total share buybacks in 2025 to EUR1 billion. So together with our 2024 dividend paid in May this year, total capital distributions in 2025 reached EUR2.3 billion, up around 50% over 2024. This brings cumulative distributions since 2022 to EUR5.6 billion.

本季度，我們啟動了 2025 年的第二次股票回購計劃，價值 2.5 億歐元，並於上週完成了該計劃。這將使2025年的股票回購總額達到10億歐元。因此，加上今年 5 月支付的 2024 年股息，2025 年的總資本分配達到 23 億歐元，比 2024 年成長約 50%。這使得自 2022 年以來的累計分配額達到 56 億歐元。

Finally, a word on our business on slide 5. We are delivering strengths and strategic execution across all four businesses in our Global Hausbank in 2025. All four businesses have delivered double-digit profit growth and double-digit RoTE in the first nine months.

最後，在第 5 張投影片上簡單介紹一下我們的業務。到 2025 年，我們將透過全球 Hausbank 的所有四個業務部門展現實力並實現策略執行。這四家企業在前九個月均實現了兩位數的利潤成長和兩位數的股東回報率。

Corporate Bank continues to scale further the Global Hausbank model and delivered strong fee growth of 5% in the first nine months, while recognized as the best trade finance bank. Our Investment Bank has been there for clients through challenging times this year and has seen an increase in activity across the whole client spectrum; institutional, corporate and priority groups.

企業銀行繼續擴大全球 Hausbank 模式的規模，並在前九個月實現了 5% 的強勁手續費成長，同時被公認為最佳貿易融資銀行。今年以來，我們的投資銀行在充滿挑戰的時期始終與客戶並肩前行，並且在整個客戶群（包括機構客戶、企業客戶和重點客戶群）中都看到了業務活動的增加。

Private Bank has made tremendous progress with its transformation so far this year, with nine months profits up 71%. Our growth strategy in Wealth Management is paying off. Assets under Management have grown by EUR40 billion year-to-date, with net inflows of EUR25 billion.

私人銀行今年以來在轉型方面取得了巨大進展，前九個月的利潤成長了 71%。我們在財富管理領域的成長策略正在發揮成效。今年迄今為止，管理資產規模增加了 400 億歐元，淨流入資金為 250 億歐元。

And in Asset Management, the combination of fee-based expansion with operational efficiency drives sustainable returns of 25%. We are benefiting from our strength in European ETFs and expanding our offering in that area.

在資產管理領域，收費擴張與營運效率相結合，可實現 25% 的永續回報。我們正受益於我們在歐洲ETF領域的優勢，並擴大我們在該領域的業務。

To sum up our performance in 2025 to date. We have delivered record profitability due to continued revenue momentum and cost discipline. Our nine months performance is in line with our full year financial goals on all dimensions. We are on track to reach or exceed our strategy execution targets.

總結一下我們截至 2025 年的表現。由於營收持續成長和成本控制得當，我們實現了創紀錄的獲利能力。我們前九個月的業績在各方面都符合全年財務目標。我們有望達到或超過戰略執行目標。

We have demonstrated strength across all four of our businesses. Our capital position is strong and supports our aim of distributions to shareholders in excess of EUR8 billion payable between 2022 and 2026. Before I hand over to James, I want to briefly address our future.

我們在所有四個業務領域都展現了強大的實力。我們的資本狀況良好，能夠支持我們實現向股東派發超過 80 億歐元股息的目標，這些股息將在 2022 年至 2026 年期間支付。在把麥克風交給詹姆斯之前，我想簡單地談談我們的未來。

We have built very strong foundations for the next phase of our strategic agenda. And with our positioning in the strongest European economy, we stand to benefit from powerful tailwinds coming from German fiscal stimulus, structural reforms and renewed client confidence. We look forward to discussing this with you at our Investor Deep Dive in London in November.

我們為下一階段的策略議程奠定了非常堅實的基礎。憑藉我們在歐洲最強勁的經濟體中的地位，我們將受益於德國財政刺激、結構性改革和客戶信心恢復帶來的強勁利好因素。我們期待在11月於倫敦舉行的投資者深度研討會上與您探討此事。

Thank you, Christian, and good morning. As you can see on slide 7, we saw continued strong delivery this quarter against all the broader objectives and targets we set ourselves for 2025. Our revenue growth, cost income ratio and return on tangible equity are all developing in line with our full year objectives.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安，早安。正如您在投影片 7 中看到的那樣，本季我們繼續保持強勁的業績，實現了我們為 2025 年設定的所有更廣泛的目標和指標。我們的營收成長、成本收入比和有形權益回報率均按全年目標發展。

Our capital position is strong, and our liquidity metrics are sound. The liquidity coverage ratio finished the quarter at 140%, and the net stable funding ratio was 119%. With that, let me now turn to the third quarter highlights on slide 8.

我們的資本狀況良好，流動性指標穩健。本季末流動性覆蓋率為 140%，淨穩定資金比率為 119%。接下來，讓我們翻到第 8 張投影片，看看第三季的精彩片段。

Our diversified and complementary business mix resulted in reported revenue growth of 7% year-on-year or 10% if adjusted for foreign exchange translation impacts. Due to the non-recurrence of a provision release related to the Postbank takeover litigation matter from which we benefited last year, third quarter non-operating costs and non-interest expenses were both higher year-on-year.

我們多元化且互補的業務組合使公司營收年增 7%，如果扣除外匯折算影響，則較去年同期成長 10%。由於去年我們從郵政銀行收購訴訟案中受益的撥備釋放並未再次發生，第三季非營運成本和非利息支出均較去年同期增加。

The tax rate of 26% in the third quarter benefited from the reduction of deferred tax liabilities due to the change in the German corporate tax rate, which will start to decline after 2027. We continue to expect the 2025 full year tax rate to range between 28% and 29%. In the third quarter, diluted earnings per share was EUR0.89 and tangible book value per share increased 3% year-on-year to EUR30.17.

第三季 26% 的稅率得益於德國企業所得稅稅率的變化，遞延所得稅負債減少，而德國企業所得稅稅率將在 2027 年後開始下降。我們仍然預計 2025 年全年稅率將在 28% 至 29% 之間。第三季度，稀釋後每股收益為 0.89 歐元，每股有形帳面價值年增 3% 至 30.17 歐元。

Before I go on, a few remarks on Corporate and Other, with further information in the appendix on slide 36. C&O generated a pretax loss of EUR110 million in the quarter, mainly driven by shareholder expenses and other centrally held items, partially offset by positive revenues in valuation and timing differences.

在我繼續之前，關於公司和其他方面，我想簡單提幾句，更多資訊請參閱幻燈片 36 的附錄。C&O 本季稅前虧損 1.1 億歐元，主要原因是股東支出和其他集中持有的項目，部分被估值和時間差異帶來的正收入所抵銷。

Let me now turn to some of the drivers of these results, starting with net interest income on slide 9. NII across key banking book segments and other funding was EUR3.3 billion. Private Bank continued to deliver steady NII growth, supported by the ongoing rollover of our structural hedge portfolio and deposit inflows.

現在讓我來談談這些結果的一些驅動因素，首先是第 9 頁投影片上的淨利息收入。主要銀行帳簿部門和其他融資的淨利息收入為 33 億歐元。私人銀行持續保持穩定的淨利息收入成長，這得益於我們結構性對沖組合的持續展期和存款流入。

Corporate Bank NII was slightly down quarter-on-quarter, reflecting lower one-offs, while it continues to be supported by underlying portfolio growth as well as hedge rollover. With respect to the full year, we continue to benefit from the long-term hedge portfolio rollover detailed on slide 24 of the appendix and are on track to meet our plans on a currency-adjusted basis.

企業銀行淨利息收入環比略有下降，反映出一次性收入減少，但基礎投資組合成長以及對沖展期繼續為其提供支撐。就全年而言，我們繼續受益於附錄第 24 頁詳述的長期對沖投資組合展期，並有望以貨幣調整後的基礎實現我們的計畫。

Turning to slide 10. Adjusted costs were EUR5 billion for the quarter. Cost discipline across the franchise remains strong. Compensation costs were up on a year-on-year basis, primarily reflecting the higher performance-related accruals, higher deferred equity compensation and the impact of increasing Deutsche Bank and DWS share prices.

翻到第10張投影片。經調整後，該季度成本為50億歐元。整個特許經營體系的成本控制依然嚴格。薪酬成本較去年同期上升，主要反映了與業績相關的應計費用增加、遞延股權薪酬增加以及德意志銀行和DWS股價上漲的影響。

With that, let me turn to provision for credit losses on slide 11. Stage 3 provision for credit losses increased in the quarter to EUR357 million as provisions for commercial real estate continue to be elevated, while the prior quarter included model-related benefits.

接下來，讓我來看看第 11 頁關於信貸損失準備金的內容。由於商業不動產撥備持續高位，第三階段信貸損失撥備在本季增至 3.57 億歐元，而上一季則包含了與模型相關的收益。

Stage 1 and 2 provisions reduced to EUR60 million and were driven by further model updates, which, as in the prior quarter, mainly impacted CRE-related provisions. Wider portfolio performance and asset quality remain resilient.

第一階段和第二階段撥備減少至 6,000 萬歐元，主要原因是模型進一步更新，與上一季一樣，主要影響了商業房地產相關的撥備。整體投資組合表現和資產品質保持穩健。

While the macroeconomic and geopolitical environment continues to create uncertainty, we continue to expect lower provisioning levels in the second half of the year relative to the first half year, primarily due to the expected absence of additional notable model effects impacting stage 1 and 2.

儘管宏觀經濟和地緣政治環境持續存在不確定性，但我們仍預期下半年撥備水準將低於上半年，這主要是因為預期不會出現其他顯著的模型效應影響第一階段和第二階段。

We are actively monitoring and managing risks from Private Credit, which as outlined on slide 28, accounts for about 5% of our loan book. Our Private Credit exposure predominantly reflects lender finance facilities extended to high-quality financial sponsors backed by diversified pools of loans.

我們正在積極監控和管理私人信貸風險，如第 28 頁投影片所示，私人信貸約占我們貸款總額的 5%。我們的私募信貸曝險主要反映了向高品質金融機構提供的貸款融資便利，這些便利由多元化的貸款池支持。

These facilities are overwhelmingly investment-grade rated internally and are underwritten and maintained with conservative LTVs. We apply conservative underwriting standards, including our assessment of sponsor and events, investor quality, loan sizes and structural features.

這些設施絕大多數都獲得了內部投資等級評級，並以保守的貸款價值比進行承銷和維護。我們採用保守的承銷標準，包括對發起人和活動、投資者品質、貸款規模和結構特徵的評估。

We are comfortable with our portfolio. And as Christian said, we had no exposure to recent high-profile cases. As you might expect, we remain vigilant and have undertaken additional portfolio reviews in light of these events.

我們對我們的投資組合感到滿意。正如克里斯蒂安所說，我們沒有接觸過近期備受矚目的案件。正如您所預料的，鑑於這些事件，我們保持警惕並進行了額外的投資組合審查。

With that, let me turn to capital on slide 12. Strong third quarter earnings net of AT1 coupon and dividend deductions led to an increase in the CET1 ratio to 14.5%, up 26 basis points sequentially. RWA were flat during the quarter.

接下來，讓我們來看第 12 張投影片中的資本部分。扣除 AT1 利息和股息後，第三季強勁的獲利使 CET1 比率上升至 14.5%，季增 26 個基點。本季RWA持平。

As we head into the fourth quarter, let me remind you of the 27 basis point CET1 benefit we still have from the adoption of the Article 468 CRR transitional rule for unrealized gains and losses, which will expire at the end of the year.

進入第四季之際，我想提醒各位，由於採用了《資本要求條例》第 468 條關於未實現損益的過渡性規定，我們仍然可以享受 27 個基點的 CET1 優惠，該優惠將於年底到期。

Also, following revised EBA guidance from June 2025 regarding the calculation of operational risk RWA under the new standardized approach, we have now performed the annual update of operational risk RWA already by the end of 2025, which is expected to lead to a 19 basis point drawdown in CET1 ratio terms.

此外，根據歐洲銀行管理局 (EBA) 於 2025 年 6 月發布的關於根據新的標準化方法計算操作風險 RWA 的修訂指南，我們已於 2025 年底完成了操作風險 RWA 的年度更新，預計這將導致 CET1 比率下降 19 個基點。

All else equal, therefore, these two items applied to the third quarter would lead to a pro forma CET1 ratio of approximately 14%, which is also roughly where we currently expect to finish the year. Our third quarter leverage ratio was 4.6%, down 11 basis points, principally from higher loans and commitments alongside increased settlement activity at quarter end.

因此，在其他條件不變的情況下，將這兩項因素應用於第三季將導致預期 CET1 比率約為 14%，這也大致符合我們目前對今年年底的預期。第三季槓桿率為 4.6%，下降 11 個基點，主要原因是貸款和承諾金額增加，以及季末結算活動增加。

Tier 1 capital was essentially flat in the quarter as the derecognition of the USD1.25 billion AT1 instrument that we called in September materially offset the quarter-on-quarter increase in CET1 capital. Let us now turn to performance in our businesses, starting with the Corporate Bank on slide 14.

本季一級資本基本上持平，因為我們在 9 月終止確認的 12.5 億美元 AT1 工具在很大程度上抵消了 CET1 資本的季度環比增長。現在讓我們來看看我們業務的業績，首先從第 14 頁的企業銀行開始。

In the third quarter, Corporate Bank achieved a strong post-tax return on tangible equity of 16.2% and a cost-income ratio of 63%, maintaining its high profitability. Both metrics showed a year-on-year improvement for the quarter as well as for the first nine months of 2025.

第三季度，企業銀行的稅後有形權益回報率達到強勁的 16.2%，成本收入比為 63%，維持了較高的獲利能力。兩項指標均顯示，本季以及 2025 年前九個月均實現了同比改善。

As anticipated in the previous quarter, Corporate Bank revenues remained essentially flat compared to the prior year quarter, demonstrating resilience in a challenging environment. Margin normalization and FX headwinds were offset by interest hedging, higher average deposits and 4% growth in net commission and fee income, driven by continued expansion in corporate treasury services.

正如上一季所預期的那樣，企業銀行的收入與去年同期相比基本持平，在充滿挑戰的環境中展現出了韌性。利潤率正常化和外匯不利因素被利息對沖、平均存款增加以及淨佣金和手續費收入增長 4% 所抵消，這主要得益於企業財資服務的持續擴張。

On a sequential basis, revenues were slightly lower as the prior quarter benefited from one-off interest hedging gains and seasonally stronger net commission and fee income. Loans and deposits remained essentially flat on a reported basis. Adjusted for foreign exchange movements, loan volumes increased by EUR5 billion year-on-year, driven by growth in the trade finance business and by EUR1 billion sequentially.

與上一季相比，收入略有下降，因為上一季受益於一次性利息對沖收益以及季節性強勁的淨佣金和手續費收入。以報告數據來看，貸款和存款基本上保持不變。經匯率波動調整後，貸款額年增 50 億歐元，主要得益於貿易融資業務的成長；季增 10 億歐元。

Deposit volumes remained strong, with underlying growth both year-on-year and sequentially, offsetting the runoff of concentrated client balances. Non-interest expenses and adjusted costs were essentially flat as effective cost management mitigated the impact of inflation and investments in client service. A release of provision for credit losses, reflecting a release of stage 1 and 2 and a low level of stage 3 provisions demonstrates the continued resilience of the loan book.

存款額依然強勁，年比和季比均實現成長，抵銷了集中客戶餘額的減少。非利息支出和調整後的成本基本上保持不變，因為有效的成本管理減輕了通貨膨脹和客戶服務投資的影響。信貸損失準備金的釋放，反映了第一階段和第二階段準備金的釋放以及第三階段準備金水平較低，表明貸款組合的持續韌性。

I'll now turn to the Investment Bank on slide 15. Revenues for the third quarter increased 18% year-on-year, with continued strength in FIC, supported by a material improvement in O&A. FIC revenues increased 19%, driven by strong performance across businesses.

接下來，我將轉到第 15 頁的投資銀行部分。第三季營收年增 18%，FIC 業務持續強勁成長，O&A 業務也顯著改善。受各業務部門強勁表現的推動，FIC 營收成長了 19%。

Macro products and credit trading demonstrated material year-on-year improvements following strong market activity through the quarter, while financing continued its momentum with revenues again higher than the prior year period, driven by an increased carry profile, reflecting targeted balance sheet deployment.

宏觀產品和信貸交易在本季強勁的市場活動推動下，實現了同比顯著改善；融資業務繼續保持增長勢頭，收入再次高於上年同期，這主要得益於收益分成比例的提高，反映了有針對性的資產負債表部署。

Moving to O&A. Revenues were significantly higher, both year-on-year and sequentially, increasing 27% and 22%, respectively. Debt origination was the biggest driver as both leveraged and investment-grade debt grew revenues year-on-year with the leveraged finance market, particularly active, having recovered well since the second quarter.

移至 O&A。營收年比和季比均大幅成長，分別成長了 27% 和 22%。債務發行是最大的驅動力，槓桿債務和投資等級債務的收入均較去年同期成長，其中槓桿融資市場尤其活躍，自第二季以來已良好復甦。

Equity Origination revenues increased 57%, driven by strong issuance activity, including an improved IPO market. Advisory revenues were essentially flat year-on-year as the industry fee pool moved away from our areas of strength. However, pipeline for the fourth quarter is encouraging.

受強勁的發行活動（包括 IPO 市場的改善）的推動，股權融資收入成長了 57%。由於行業收費池偏離了我們的優勢領域，諮詢收入與去年基本持平。然而，第四季的專案儲備情況令人鼓舞。

Non-interest expenses were higher year-on-year, primarily driven by the impact of higher deferred compensation and increased litigation charges. Provision for credit losses was EUR308 million, significantly higher year-on-year, with stage 1 and 2 provisions materially impacted by further model updates during the quarter and stage 3 impairments.

非利息支出較去年增加，主要原因是遞延薪資增加和訴訟費用增加。信貸損失準備金為 3.08 億歐元，較上年同期大幅增加，其中第一階段和第二階段的準備金受到本季進一步模型更新和第三階段減損的重大影響。

Let me now turn to Private Bank on slide 16. The Private Bank continued its disciplined strategy execution and delivered a strong quarterly performance. Profit before tax doubled, reflecting 13% operating leverage in the quarter.

現在讓我翻到第 16 頁，來講講私人銀行業務。私人銀行繼續執行其嚴謹的策略，並取得了強勁的季度業績。稅前利潤翻了一番，反映出本季經營槓桿率為 13%。

Return on tangible equity rose to 12.6%, showing robust growth both sequentially and year-on-year. Revenues increased driven by a 9% rise in net interest income from deposits and lending, while net commission and fee income was essentially flat year-on-year.

有形權益回報率上升至 12.6%，環比和年比均呈現強勁成長。收入成長主要得益於存款和貸款淨利息收入成長 9%，而淨佣金和手續費收入與上年基本持平。

Growth in discretionary portfolio mandates, specifically in Germany, was partially offset by lower net commission and fee income from cards, payments and postal services this quarter. Growth in Personal Banking was mainly driven by higher investment and deposit revenues.

本季度，德國全權委託投資組合的成長被信用卡、支付和郵政服務淨佣金和手續費收入的下降部分抵消。個人銀行業務的成長主要得益於投資和存款收入的增加。

Lending revenues were up slightly, helped by the absence of an episodic item in the prior year. The continued expansion in Wealth Management and Private Banking was supported by solid momentum in discretionary portfolio mandates.

貸款收入略有增長，這得益於上一年沒有出現一次性項目。財富管理和私人銀行業務的持續擴張得益於全權委託投資組合業務的強勁成長勢頭。

Sustained cost efficiency underpinned by transformation benefits led to a 9 percentage point improvement in the cost-income ratio to 68%. Personal Banking continued its transformation with 24 additional branch closures in the quarter, bringing the total to 109 this year.

持續的成本效益，加上轉型帶來的效益，使成本收入比提高了 9 個百分點，達到 68%。個人銀行業務持續轉型，本季又關閉了 24 家分行，使今年的分行總數達到 109 家。

These actions contributed to workforce reductions of 1,000 in the first nine months, demonstrating continued strategy execution. Business momentum remains strong with significant net inflows of EUR13 billion, supported by successful deposit campaigns. Underlying credit trends showed improvements with provision for credit losses benefiting from model updates.

這些舉措使得公司在前九個月內裁員 1,000 人，顯示公司策略正在持續執行。在成功的存款活動的支持下，業務發展勢頭依然強勁，淨流入資金達 130 億歐元。信貸基本面呈現改善趨勢，信貸損失準備金受惠於模型更新。

Turning to slide 17. My usual reminder, the Asset Management segment includes certain items that are not part of the DWS standalone financials. Profit before tax improved significantly by 42% from the prior year period, driven by higher revenues and resulting in an increase in return on tangible equity of 9 percentage points to 28% for this quarter.

翻到第17張幻燈片。我照例提醒一下，資產管理部門包含一些不屬於DWS獨立財務報表的項目。受收入成長的推動，稅前利潤較上年同期大幅成長 42%，使得本季有形權益回報率提高了 9 個百分點，達到 28%。

Revenues increased by 11% versus the prior year. Growth in average Assets under Management, both from markets and net inflows resulted in higher management fees of EUR655 million. In addition, performance fees saw a significant increase from the prior year period, primarily due to the recognition of fees from an infrastructure fund.

營收較上年成長11%。平均資產管理規模的成長，包括市場流入和淨流入，導致管理費增加 6.55 億歐元。此外，由於確認了來自基礎設施基金的費用，績效費較上年同期大幅增加。

Non-interest expenses and adjusted costs were essentially flat, resulting in a decline in the cost-to-income ratio to below 60% for the quarter. Quarterly net inflows totaled EUR12 billion, with EUR10 billion into passive products, including Xtrackers, which also recorded its best day ever this quarter in terms of net new assets.

非利息支出和調整後的成本基本上持平，導致本季成本收入比下降至 60% 以下。本季淨流入資金總計 120 億歐元，其中 100 億歐元流入被動型產品，包括 Xtrackers，該公司本季淨新增資產也創下歷史新高。

SQI advisory services and cash contributed a further EUR3 billion of net inflows, which more than offset EUR2 billion in net outflows for multi-asset and active equity products. Assets under management increased to EUR1.05 trillion in the quarter, driven by positive market impact and the aforementioned net inflows.

SQI 諮詢服務和現金貢獻了 30 億歐元的淨流入，足以抵消多資產和主動型股票產品 20 億歐元的淨流出。受積極的市場影響和上述淨流入的推動，本季管理資產增至 1.05 兆歐元。

During the quarter, DWS received the necessary licenses to open a new office in Abu Dhabi, strengthening its regional presence and client engagement in the Middle East, reinforcing its position as the preferred gateway to Europe for global investors. For further details, please have a look at DWS's disclosure on their Investor Relations website.

本季度，DWS 獲得了在阿布達比開設新辦事處的必要許可證，加強了其在中東地區的業務和客戶關係，鞏固了其作為全球投資者進入歐洲的首選門戶的地位。更多詳情請參閱DWS在其投資者關係網站上的揭露文件。

Turning to the outlook on slide 18. We are on track to meet our full year 2025 targets and remain confident in our trajectory to deliver a return on tangible equity of above 10% and a cost-to-income ratio of below 65%. Our year-to-date performance supports our revenue and expense objectives.

接下來請看第 18 頁的展望。我們正按計劃實現 2025 年全年目標，並對我們的發展軌跡充滿信心，預計將實現 10% 以上的有形權益回報率和 65% 以下的成本收入比。今年迄今的業績符合我們的收入和支出目標。

Our asset quality remains solid. And despite uncertainty from developments around CRE as well as the macroeconomic environment, we continue to anticipate lower provisioning levels in the second half. Our strong capital position and third quarter profit growth provide a solid foundation as we head into 2026.

我們的資產品質依然穩健。儘管商業不動產發展以及宏觀經濟環境存在不確定性，但我們仍預期下半年撥備水準會降低。我們雄厚的資本實力和第三季的利潤成長為我們邁向 2026 年奠定了堅實的基礎。

We also completed our second buyback, taking total buybacks in 2025 to EUR1 billion, and we reiterate our commitment to outperforming our EUR8 billion distribution target. And we look forward to providing you with an update on our forward-looking strategy and financial trajectory at our next Investor Deep Dive on November 17.

我們也完成了第二次股票回購，使 2025 年的股票回購總額達到 10 億歐元，我們重申我們致力於超越 80 億歐元的分配目標。我們期待在 11 月 17 日的下一次投資者深度研討會上，向您介紹我們未來的策略和財務軌蹟的最新情況。

With that, let me hand back to Ioana, and we look forward to your questions.

那麼，接下來就交給伊奧娜吧，我們期待大家提問。

Thank you, James. Operator, we're now ready to take questions.

謝謝你，詹姆斯。接線員，我們現在可以開始回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Tarik El Mejjad, Bank of America.

（操作員指示）Tarik El Mejjad，美國銀行。

Hi, good morning, and thank you for taking my questions. Two from my side, please. First, I mean, you printed a strong Q3 results, which puts you well on track to deliver on our '25 targets being revenues, cost, RoTE or capital.

您好，早安，感謝您回答我的問題。請我方兩位。首先，我的意思是，你們公佈了強勁的第三季業績，這使你們有望實現我們2025年的目標，即收入、成本、資本回報率或資本。

Can you run us through your thoughts on achieving your '25 targets and whether more importantly, Q4 would see a similar better trend in Q3? Or on the flip side, we should expect some or could be some negative surprises? I'm always asking this because it's very important and it sets the tone for the trajectory and credibility of your medium-term targets to release in three weeks' time.

您能否談談您對實現 2025 年目標的看法，更重要的是，第四季是否會像第三季那樣呈現類似的良好趨勢？或者反過來說，我們是否應該預料到或可能會出現一些負面的意外情況？我總是問這個問題，因為它非常重要，它決定了你們三週後即將發布的中期目標的方向和可信度。

The second question, longer term. Can you please discuss how bank as yours would benefit from the German fiscal stimulus? I mean how important is it as a lever, sorry, to your medium-term profitability? And maybe you can take an opportunity to update us on how the implementation of fiscal stimulus is going and the merits of it. Thank you.

第二個問題，從長遠來看。請問貴行將如何從德國的財政刺激政策中受益？我的意思是，它作為槓桿，對你的中期獲利能力有多重要？或許您可以藉此機會向我們介紹一下財政刺激政策的實施及其優點。謝謝。

Good morning, everybody. Good morning, Tarik, thank you for your question. Let me start on both questions. First of all, we agree with you. It's unbelievably important that we achieve our targets for 2025 to further build up the credibility. But to be honest, we are highly confident in doing so.

大家早安。塔里克，早安，謝謝你的提問。讓我先回答這兩個問題。首先，我們同意你的觀點。實現 2025 年目標對於進一步提升信譽至關重要。但說實話，我們對此非常有信心。

First of all, let me reiterate again also what James said at the end of his comments. A, we are really happy with the first nine months' performance. I think it really shows our strength and it also actually shows the continuous improvement, the momentum, the validity of the strategy.

首先，讓我再次重申詹姆斯在發言最後所說的話。A，我們對前九個月的業績非常滿意。我認為這充分展現了我們的實力，也真正體現了我們持續進步、發展動能以及策略的有效性。

And in particular, in the times where we are with these geopolitical uncertainties, this concept of the Global Hausbank, is actually gathering more and more momentum and clients want our advice, be it private clients, corporate clients, institutional clients.

尤其是在當前地緣政治充滿不確定性的時期，全球家庭銀行的概念實際上正在獲得越來越大的發展勢頭，客戶，無論是私人客戶、企業客戶還是機構客戶，都希望獲得我們的建議。

And therefore, to be honest, I'm really confident that we see this momentum also going into Q4. On the revenue side, look, we had robust, actually, I would say, a very good start in October on the investment banking side.

因此，坦白說，我非常有信心，這種勢頭將延續到第四季。從收入方面來看，實際上，我認為我們在10月份的投資銀行業務開局非常強勁，甚至可以說是非常好。

We have a good visibility when it comes to the pipeline on the O&A side for Q4. And the predictable or more predictable businesses are looking very solid for the fourth quarter. In particular, Private Bank and Asset Management, on the Asset Management side, okay, it's not yet over the year, but I can -- actually, I would expect higher performance fees even coming in. So there's even some upside to the already quite positive outlook.

對於第四季度 O&A 方面的專案儲備，我們有很好的可見度。而那些發展前景較為穩定的企業，第四季的前景看起來也非常穩健。特別是私人銀行和資產管理方面，就資產管理而言，雖然還沒到年底，但我可以——實際上，我預計業績費甚至會更高。因此，即便前景已經相當樂觀，仍有一些利多因素。

So from a revenue point of view, while Q4 is always seasonally a bit weaker than the other, but it's actually in line with our plan, even potentially higher than the plan, and that makes me absolutely confident that we can achieve the EUR32 billion.

所以從收入的角度來看，雖然第四季度在季節性上總是比其他季度略弱一些，但實際上它符合我們的計劃，甚至有可能高於計劃，這讓我完全有信心我們能夠實現 320 億歐元的目標。

I think we know how to manage costs. We have shown that quarter by quarter, the same discipline will be applied to the cost line in Q4. And therefore, I think simply from an operating performance, I'm confident that we show another good quarter. From a risk point of view, look, we are there, what we told you at the end of Q2 that the second half of 2025 will show lower provisions than the first half.

我認為我們知道如何控製成本。我們已經證明，從第四季開始，同樣的紀律將應用於成本線。因此，僅從營運業績來看，我認為我們有信心再創佳績。從風險角度來看，我們確實做到了，正如我們在第二季末告訴你們的那樣，2025 年下半年的撥備將低於上半年。

We have started to see that in Q3. And from a credit portfolio point of view, I'm confident I feel comfortable. We haven't been involved in those cases which were quite heavy in the media shows actually the underwriting criteria we have, the discipline we have, and therefore, I'm confident there.

我們在第三季開始看到這種情況。從信貸組合的角度來看，我覺得很安心。我們沒有捲入那些媒體大肆報道的案件，這實際上表明了我們的承保標準和紀律，因此，我對此充滿信心。

And that shows me overall, while there is always obviously some seasonal issues, but looking actually at Q4, it all adds to my high confidence that we will meet and potentially even exceed our targets when it comes to return on equity, when it comes to the cost-income ratio, and also as important actually to our target to shareholder distributions well above EUR8 billion.

這讓我總體上相信，雖然總是會有一些季節性問題，但實際上從第四季度來看，所有這些都增強了我的信心，相信我們能夠達到甚至可能超過我們的目標，包括股本回報率、成本收入比，以及同樣重要的，我們向股東分配超過 80 億歐元的目標。

And therefore, I think we also have actually a very, very good capital story, and I'm sure James will talk about that. With regards to Germany and how we built this into our plan, now I don't want to be defensive when I refer to our IDD in 2.5 weeks' time because obviously, we will talk about that far more in detail.

因此，我認為我們實際上也有一個非常非常好的資本故事，我相信詹姆斯會談到這一點。關於德國以及我們如何將其納入我們的計劃，現在我不想在提及我們兩個半星期後的國際發展日時顯得很被動，因為很顯然，我們會更詳細地討論這個問題。

But also, again, for -- or as an answer to your question, look, first of all, I have not changed my view on Germany and the stimulus program and what Germany will do, so to say, over the next two to three years. The government is clearly reiterating that growth and competitiveness is at the core of their agenda.

但是，再次重申一下——或者說，作為對你問題的回答，首先，我對德國、刺激計劃以及德國在未來兩到三年內將要採取的行動的看法並沒有改變。政府顯然在重申，成長和競爭力是其議程的核心。

And while there is noise about the speed of implementation, which I understand, we all wish even for a speedier implementation, we should also actually think about what has been done next to the, sort of, say, adjustment of the debt break.

雖然有人對實施速度表示不滿（我理解這一點，我們都希望實施速度更快），但我們也應該認真思考一下，除了調整債務減免之外，接下來還做了些什麼。

And actually, there are very concrete discussions between the government and other institutions, including ours, how to deploy now the EUR500 billion, be it on infrastructure or be it on defense. But we have seen other reforms on the tech side, the investment booster, initial changes to social and pension reforms.

事實上，政府和其他機構（包括我們機構）之間正在進行非常具體的討論，探討如何部署這 5,000 億歐元，無論是用於基礎設施還是國防。但我們已經看到科技領域的其他改革、投資促進措施以及社會和退休金改革的初步變化。

And look, when we discuss with the government, there is clearly more to come. And therefore, we are very optimistic that Germany is able to grow by 1.5% in 2026. I can also see actually that, again, while the private corporates are calling for even speedier implementation, actually on Monday, it came out that the Business Climate Index was at the highest level since 2022. Now this is also much needed, but you can see that it's going into the right direction.

而且，當我們與政府討論時，很明顯還有更多的事情要做。因此，我們非常樂觀地認為，德國在 2026 年能夠實現 1.5% 的成長。我還可以再次看到，雖然私人企業呼籲加快實施速度，但實際上，週一公佈的商業環境指數達到了 2022 年以來的最高水平。現在這也非常必要，而且可以看出它正朝著正確的方向發展。

You know about this Made for Germany initiative since the start end of July, when I reported here for the first time, we have almost doubled the number of companies which are participating. We are now at a committed number of more than EUR730 billion of revenues of investments -- I'm sorry, not revenues of investments committed for the next three years.

您應該知道，自從 7 月底我第一次在這裡報道「德國製造」計畫以來，參與該計畫的公司數量幾乎翻了一番。我們目前已承諾的投資收入超過 7,300 億歐元——抱歉，不是未來三年承諾的投資收入。

So of course, we need to keep the pressure on the government, and that is obviously needed. But I'm actually very optimistic that Germany will leave this flat growth scenario, which we have seen for too long and is coming back to growth. And that obviously helps us in more details on the IDD.

所以，我們當然需要繼續向政府施壓，這顯然是必要的。但我其實非常樂觀地認為，德國將擺脫這種我們已經經歷了太久的停滯成長局面，並重回成長軌道。這顯然有助於我們更詳細地了解IDD。

Thank you very much, and looking forward to hear more. Thank you.

非常感謝，期待聽到更多。謝謝。

Joseph Dickerson, Jefferies.

Joseph Dickerson，傑富瑞集團。

Hi, thank you for taking my question. I've got a question first on private credit in a couple of areas. So I've seen your disclosure on slide 28. And it seems to me that people tend to conflate Private Credit with other aspects of asset-backed finance and sponsor lending.

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。我首先想問一下關於幾個地區的私人信貸問題。我已經看過你在第28頁幻燈片上的披露資訊了。在我看來，人們往往將私人信貸與資產支持融資和發起人貸款的其他方面混為一談。

So I guess, could you just give us your perspective on Private Credit and the outlook what are the areas of risk you're looking at? And what are the areas of opportunity that you are also assessing because it seems like only months ago, this was a big area of opportunity for banks. So it would be interesting to have your opinion on the opportunity?

所以我想，您能否談談您對私人信貸的看法和前景，以及您認為有哪些風險領域？你們還在評估哪些領域的機會？因為就在幾個月前，這似乎還是銀行業的重要機會領域。所以，我很想聽聽您對這個機會的看法？

And then just on non-bank financial institutions because I know the disclosure in the US is different from Europe, where I don't think there's a percept definition, but how do you assess NBFIs and counterparties in that regard? So that's, I guess, the first question around private credit.

然後，就非銀行金融機構而言，因為我知道美國的揭露與歐洲不同，歐洲似乎沒有一個明確的定義，那麼你如何評估非銀行金融機構和交易對手？所以，我想，這就是關於私人信貸的第一個問題。

And then secondly, on the CET1 ratio with the OCI filter in the op risk, which I think was pulled forward in the Q4. Can you confirm that going forward, you'll distribute capital down to the 14% threshold sustainably? Because I think that's an important point for investors. Thank you.

其次，關於 CET1 比率與 OCI 過濾器在操作風險中的作用，我認為這在第四季度被提前了。您能否確認，今後您將可持續地將資本分配至 14% 的門檻以下？因為我認為這對投資者來說很重要。謝謝。

Thanks, Joseph, for your questions. It's James. I'll -- let me start with the capital item you mentioned. So the short answer is yes. And we feel -- we wanted to indicate with the pro forma we gave even greater confidence about our distribution path from here.

謝謝約瑟夫的提問。是詹姆斯。我——讓我先從您提到的資本項目開始說起。所以簡短的回答是肯定的。我們覺得——我們希望透過這份預測報告表明，我們對未來的分銷路徑更有信心。

And let me just make sure that our comments were understood. The two items that we called out in the commentary are ones that we've talked about before. But we think we're in a position now through EBA guidance and our own actions to be both into the year-end ratio.

我還要確認一下，我們的發言是否被理解了。我們在評論中提到的兩點，我們之前也討論過。但我們認為，透過 EBA 的指導和我們自身的行動，我們現在有能力在年底前實現這兩個目標。

You may recall that we talked about some volatility potentially in the ratios of a high step off, which would not have given you a clean view of our position going into '26. We think we can now do that. And hence, the guidance of 14%, we think is really encouraging because it puts us in the position to generate excess capital from the start of the year essentially and then potentially distribute that.

您可能還記得，我們​​曾討論過高階躍式調整可能會導致比率出現一些波動，這不會讓您清楚地了解我們進入 2026 年的狀況。我們認為現在可以做到這一點了。因此，我們認為 14% 的指導目標非常令人鼓舞，因為它使我們能夠從年初就產生超額資本，然後有可能進行分配。

Now I'd also make the point that with the interim profit recognition that we have, as we sit here today, EUR2.4 billion of capital is disregarded in the ratio. So the EUR14.5 billion excludes EUR2.4 billion of distributions that are earmarked for distribution next year. And of course, 50% of net income in the fourth quarter would also be ready for distribution based on that 50% payout ratio.

現在我還想指出，根據我們目前所採用的中期利潤確認方式，該比率中忽略了 24 億歐元的資本。因此，145億歐元不包括計劃明年分配的24億歐元。當然，根據 50% 的派息率，第四季淨收入的 50% 也將可以進行分配。

And then we would be in a position to exceed that based on earnings above that 14% starting point. So we wanted to send a strong message that we're starting at the top of our range. And that gives us greater confidence even than when we spoke a quarter ago.

然後，如果收益高於 14% 的起始點，我們就有能力超越這個目標。所以我們希望傳達一個強烈的訊號，那就是我們從產品系列的頂端開始。這讓我們比三個月前我們談到這件事時更有信心。

Just going essentially in reverse order, the NBFI disclosure really isn't very helpful because it captures all sorts of things that investors aren't looking for, like clearing houses and insurance exposures and the like. And hence, the additional disclosure that we provided of approximately 5% of the loan book being to Private Credit.

基本上反過來說，非銀行金融機構披露資訊其實並沒有什麼幫助，因為它包含了投資者不想了解的各種信息，例如清算機構、保險風險敞口等等。因此，我們額外揭露了約 5% 的貸款組合流向了私人信貸。

We talked a little bit about the nature of that lending. You asked about the opportunity. Look, we've been in this market for a very long time. So the FIC financing business is not new for us. We've been in structured credit lending for many, many years.

我們簡單談了一下這種貸款的性質。你問到了這個機會。你看，我們在這個市場已經耕耘很久了。所以，FIC融資業務對我們來說並不陌生。我們從事結構化信貸業務已經很多年了。

And as a consequence, we think we have real capabilities to innovate and take advantage of opportunities in the market as they develop from here. We also have a good track record in terms of underwriting and discipline against our risk appetite.

因此，我們認為我們具備真正的創新能力，能夠抓住市場發展所帶來的機會。我們在承保和風險承受能力方面也有良好的記錄。

And so while we do see spread compression in the business that's coming from the additional capital going into Private Credit, whether that's from banks or from Private Credit industry players. We also see opportunities to innovate and grow the book.

因此，儘管我們看到，由於更多資金流入私人信貸領域（無論是來自銀行還是來自私人信貸行業的參與者），該行業的利差有所收窄。我們也看到了創新和發展這本書的機會。

We've been very disciplined, as I say, in that business, but it is one that we've successfully and I think profitably grown in the past, and we think that's continuing notwithstanding the spread compression point I made earlier.

正如我所說，我們在這個行業一直非常自律，而且過去我們成功地實現了盈利增長，我們認為儘管我之前提到了價差收窄的問題，但這種情況仍將繼續。

Great, thank you. So just to conclude on the Q4 capital position, it sounds like you're creating a position of strength for next year.

太好了，謝謝。最後總結一下第四季的資本狀況，聽起來你們正在為明年奠定堅實的基礎。

Position of strength? Absolutely. We talked about the OCI filter starting in the third quarter of last year. It was a feature of CRR3 that we and other banks availed ourselves of. So a temporary protection of about EUR800 million in unrealized losses on essentially sovereign debt.

優勢地位？絕對地。我們從去年第三季開始討論OCI過濾器。這是CRR3的一項功能，我們和其他銀行都利用了這項功能。因此，這相當於對主權債務中約 8 億歐元的未實現損失提供了暫時的保護。

And then we've also talked about the fact that in the old regulatory guidance, we would only recognize up risk RWA increases in the standardized approach that refer to the prior year's revenues based on new EBA guidance, that's expected to be recognized already in the year.

此外，我們也討論過，在舊的監管指導中，我們只會根據新的 EBA 指導，在標準化方法中確認上一年的收入所對應的風險加權資產 (RWA) 增加，而預計這些增加將在當年得到確認。

And those are the two items we're calling out. And the good news for investors is it will take the volatility out of our disclosure, but the guidance of 14% endpoint, we think is encouraging.

這就是我們要重點指出的兩點。對投資人來說，好消息是這將消除我們揭露資訊中的波動性，但我們認為 14% 的最終目標指引令人鼓舞。

That's fantastic. Thank you.

太棒了。謝謝。

Giulia Miotto, Morgan Stanley.

朱莉婭·米奧托，摩根士丹利。

Thank you. I want to first follow up on the capital distribution point. Is it fair to expect two buybacks next year? So one with Q4, of course, and then the second one. I don't know if perhaps towards midyear results given that you start already from 14%, you build the excess capital from there and you intend to distribute everything down to 14%. And then to be clear, I'm trying to confirm that there are no more potential downgrades to at least EUR1.5 billion of buybacks expected in '26 from consensus.

謝謝。我想先跟進一下資金分配方面的問題。預期明年會有兩次股票回購是否合理？所以，首先是 Q4，當然還有第二個。我不知道，考慮到你們的初始比例是 14%，或許在年中業績公佈時，你們會從那裡累積超額資本，然後打算將所有資金分配到 14%。然後，為了明確起見，我正在努力確認，2026 年至少 15 億歐元的股票回購預期是否還有進一步下調的空間，與普遍預期有所不同。

And then secondly, thank you for the additional disclosure on Private Credit. That's helpful. I think you stated that these are exposure to high-quality lenders, investment grade with a conservative LTV. Do you disclose the average LTV and also concentration? How big is the largest exposure? Would you be able to give these numbers, which I think could assure investors even further? Thank you.

其次，感謝您補充揭露有關私人信貸的資訊。那很有幫助。我認為您已經說過，這些貸款機構是優質貸款機構，投資級別，貸款價值比保守。你們會公佈平均客戶終身價值（LTV）和集中度嗎？最大曝光量有多大？您能否提供這些數據？我認為這些數據可以進一步增強投資人的信心。謝謝。

Sure, Guillia. Thank you. So again, going to the distribution piece, yes, is the short answer. We're all kind of reacting to the rules as they have evolved in Europe as to how to craft distribution policies and go through the approval hurdles.

當然，朱利亞。謝謝。所以，再說一遍，關於分銷環節，答案是肯定的，簡而言之就是這樣。我們都在根據歐洲不斷變化的規則做出反應，這些規則涉及如何制定分銷政策以及如何克服審批障礙。

But in our case, I think investors should expect that in the, call it, the first half maybe seven, eight months of the year, we would be in a position to distribute what is accrued, if you like, on the basis of that 50%. And then assuming there is in our capital plan, excess capital, then it would take a second application and second approval process to do that, actually similar to what we ultimately did this year.

但就我們而言，我認為投資人應該預期，在今年上半年，或許七、八個月的時間裡，我們將能夠以 50% 的比例分配已累積的收益。然後假設我們的資本計畫中有剩餘資金，那麼就需要第二次申請和第二次審批流程才能這樣做，實際上與我們今年最終所做的類似。

But obviously, as net income rises, and the forward view comes into focus, those numbers essentially increase with earnings. The other thing just to point out is that we talked about last quarter the sort of sustainably above concept.

但顯然，隨著淨收入的成長，以及對未來前景的展望逐漸明朗，這些數字基本上會隨著收益的成長而增加。另外要指出的是，我們在上個季度討論過上述可持續發展的概念。

And what I want to make clear is that it means that in our capital plan, that amount of capital above 14% isn't just a flash in the pan goes away. But it also means that opportunities that we see in the capital plan as they materialize also can produce excess capital.

我想明確指出的是，這意味著在我們的資本計畫中，超過 14% 的那部分資本並不是曇花一現，不會消失。但這也意味著，我們在資本計畫中看到的機會，隨著它們的實現，也可能產生過剩資本。

To give you an example, FRTB is still in our capital plan and were that to be pushed out or amended that then our capital plan would potentially show additional excess capital. Equally good news or in the sense of slower demand for capital in the businesses can also create excess capital. So I want to be clear that, that's how it works, but -- and therefore, Guillia, in your framing of it, that's what the second application would then take into account with the passage of time.

舉例來說，FRTB 仍然在我們的資本計劃中，如果將其移除或修改，那麼我們的資本計劃可能會顯示額外的超額資本。同樣有利的消息，或者說企業對資本的需求放緩，也可能造成資本過剩。所以我想明確一點，事情就是這樣運作的，但是——因此，Guillia，按照你的表述，隨著時間的推移，第二個應用程式就會考慮到這一點。

On Private Credit, we do disclose on page 28, the LTV associated with the with that 75% block that we refer to as lender finance. So that's the diversified pools of credit that have back leverage against them, and that is below 60% with an LTV maintenance covenant in, I think, most or all of the facilities.

關於私人信貸，我們在第 28 頁揭露了與我們稱之為貸款人融資的 75% 貸款額相關的 LTV。所以，這些多元化的信貸池都有相應的槓桿，而且槓桿率低於 60%，我認為大多數或所有貸款都有 LTV 維持契約。

And that's actually reasonably typical of the type of lending here. In fact, when you go into other types of private capital lending, say, subscription finance or NAV financing, you find LTVs even lower in the case of NAV financing significantly lower than that 60%.

事實上，這在本地的貸款類型中相當典型。事實上，當你研究其他類型的私人資本貸款時，例如認購融資或淨值融資，你會發現淨值融資的貸款價值比甚至更低，遠低於 60%。

So we take it to be, except in the case of fraud. And fraud only really hurts you when you're in a single lender facility or a single asset facility. And we have a very small exposure to that type of non-recourse single asset as a percentage again of that 5% of the loan book. So hopefully, that gives you some color for what the exposures look like.

所以我們認為情況確實如此，除非涉及詐欺。只有當你只與一家貸款機構或一家資產機構合作時，詐欺才會真正對你造成損害。而且，我們這類無追索權單一資產的曝險非常小，僅佔貸款組合的 5%。希望這能讓你對曝光效果有大致的了解。

Thank you very much. It was super clear. Just if I can follow up, can you quantify the exposure to the single lender facility that you just mentioned?

非常感謝。非常清晰。我能否進一步說明一下，您能否量化一下您剛才提到的單一貸款機構的風險敞口？

I think it's less than 5% of the 5% by memory. So it's a very small exposure. And actually, I would add to that, Guillia, that in those cases, given that it's a single asset the oversight that we put and the LTVs we're willing to lend at are even more conservative than when it's a pool. So we -- again, no one is ever going to be perfect in lending, but we feel that these portfolios are very robust in terms of their protection, attachment points and oversight.

我記得好像不到那5%的5%。所以曝光量非常小。事實上，Guillia，我還要補充一點，在這些情況下，鑑於它是單一資產，我們採取的監管措施和我們願意提供的貸款價值比甚至比資產池的情況更加保守。所以我們——再說一遍，在貸款方面沒有人能做到完美，但我們認為這些投資組合在保護、附加點和監督方面非常穩健。

Great, thank you. And the last follow-up, the 60% LTV is on 75% of this Private Credit exposure. On the remaining 25%, what sort of LTVs do you have?

太好了，謝謝。最後一點是，60% 的貸款價值比 (LTV) 佔這部分私人信用額度的 75%。剩下的 25% 中，你們有哪些類型的 LTV（貸款價值比）？

Average would be lower than the 60% given the composition that I mentioned of what is otherwise there.

考慮到我之前提到的其他因素，平均值會低於 60%。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Flora Bocahut, Barclays.

弗洛拉·博卡胡特，巴克萊銀行。

Yes, good morning. I wanted to ask you a first question on the OP risk comment you made regarding the annual update that is coming at year-end. I just want to understand how much of a one-off this is because you mentioned annual event when you comment on it, is this something that's going to hit again every year? And if so, do you have an idea of the magnitude? So just to assess how recurring an event this could be.

是的，早安。我想就您之前提到的關於年底年度更新的風險評論向您提出第一個問題。我只是想了解一下這種情況是偶發性的還是偶發性的，因為你在評論時提到了這是年度事件，這種情況每年都會再次發生嗎？如果屬實，您知道其規模有多大嗎？所以，我們只是想評估一下這種情況發生的頻率。

And the second question is on the Corporate Bank revenues. The fee growth is clearly positive, but has been slowing a bit this quarter. The NII declined slightly sequentially, which you commented on. For you to make the guidance for the full year, it would imply a boost certainly sequentially in that revenues for Q4. So anything you can give us on how confident you are that there is going to be a rebound Q-on-Q in the corporate Bank revenues in Q4? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於企業銀行的收入。費用增長顯然是積極的，但本季增速有所放緩。NII環比略有下降，您也對此發表了評論。要做出全年業績指引，就意味著第四季的營收肯定會較上季成長。那麼，您能否透露一下您對第四季企業銀行營收季減的信心程度？謝謝。

Thanks, Flora. Yes, the OP risk item is now a permanent feature in the standardized approach to operational risk RWA. It also, by the way, removes the volatility intra year. So we will record a number in December, and that will be flat through the balance of the year.

謝謝你，弗洛拉。是的，營運風險項目現在已成為營運風險 RWA 標準化方法中的一個永久組成部分。順便一提，它還能消除年內波動。因此，我們將在 12 月記錄一個數字，並且該數字在今年剩餘時間內將保持穩定。

I think it runs off a three year average. So each year, you have to update for that year's new revenue number in the three year. On CB, I do think we're looking at what I'll call a trough in revenues. Now I think we want to be a little bit cautious about that prediction. But to us, NII should be passing through a trough as sort of a mild increase going into Q4.

我認為它是按三年平均值計算的。因此，每年都需要根據當年的最新收入數據更新三年期數據。關於CB，我認為我們正處於我稱之為收入低谷的階段。現在我認為我們應該對這個預測持謹慎態度。但我們認為，NII 應該會經歷一個低谷，並在進入第四季度時出現溫和增長。

But beyond that fee and commission income, there's always remember a little bit of sequential seasonality, Q2 tends to be the highest quarter of the year because of dividend season and what happens in the trusted agency business. So Q3 is always a little bit softer.

但除了手續費和佣金收入之外，還要記住一些季節性因素，第二季度往往是一年中收入最高的季度，因為有分紅季，而且受託代理業務也會受到影響。所以第三季總是會稍微寬鬆一些。

But this steady build of the fee and commission income streams in the Corporate Bank, we expect to continue in the years ahead. Obviously, we'll talk more about that on November 17. But it has a -- so I would expect to see Q4 continue to show momentum, perhaps accelerating momentum against where we've been very recently. And again, it's a business where you compete for business with RFPs and put on the business. So you have some visibility into, if you like, a pipeline of new activity coming through in Corporate Bank.

但我們預計，企業銀行手續費和佣金收入的這種穩定成長勢頭將在未來幾年繼續保持。顯然，我們將在11月17日詳細討論這個問題。但它有——所以我預計第四季度將繼續保持成長勢頭，甚至可能比最近一段時間的成長勢頭更快。再說一遍，這是一個透過 RFP 來競爭業務並拿下業務的行業。這樣，你就可以大致了解企業銀行部門即將開展的新業務流程。

Let me just add to the last point. I think this is a really good point James is making. Just take, for instance, the example of Miles and More in Lufthansa where, for the last two years, actually, we have invested in the transition now to the Corporate Bank. And that we actually can see on various fronts, in particular, on the payment platforms we're supplying new technologies.

我只想補充最後一點。我認為詹姆斯提出的觀點非常好。以漢莎航空的 Miles and More 為例，在過去的兩年裡，我們實際上一直在投資將其轉型為企業銀行。這一點我們確實可以在各個方面看到，尤其是在我們正在提供新技術的支付平台上。

So I would -- as James is saying, I would expect a slightly increasing number in Q4 in the Corporate Bank, but in particular, the investments we are doing for the fee and commission are building up and building up. So it's actually quite a nice story.

所以，正如 James 所說，我預期企業銀行第四季的數字會略有成長，但特別是我們為收取手續費和佣金而進行的投資正在不斷累積。所以這其實是一個很不錯的故事。

Now even more important is that if you -- despite the Q3 number, which was slightly lower than the consensus was look at the profitability of the Corporate Bank. It again increased, and that also shows that more and more we apply technology, and that means that our process of getting more efficient and cost-income ratio is going into the right direction. So overall, despite potentially non beat on the consensus of revenues, the overall development the Corporate Bank makes me actually very confident.

現在更重要的是，儘管第三季業績略低於預期，但你仍然應該關注企業銀行的獲利能力。它再次成長，這也表明我們越來越多地應用技術，這意味著我們提高效率和成本收入比的過程正朝著正確的方向發展。所以總的來說，儘管營收可能沒有達到預期，但企業銀行的整體發展讓我非常有信心。

Actually, probably one thing just to add, I think, Flora, you may have asked for the RWA number that we're assuming in Q4, it's about EUR4.5 billion that would -- we think, mechanically come into the into the denominator for the ratio, just to close that gap.

實際上，我想補充一點，Flora，你可能問過我們假設的第四季度 RWA 數據，大約是 45 億歐元，我們認為，這筆錢會機械地計入比率的分母，以彌補這個差距。

Understood. Thank you very much.

明白了。非常感謝。

Andrew Coombs, Citi.

安德魯·庫姆斯，花旗銀行。

I have one on the Investment Bank and then one on the Private Bank. So on the Investment Bank, if you take the provisions, you talked about model effects driving by stage 1 and 2, perhaps you could elaborate on that and confirm that that's a one-off model change, you wouldn't expect it to repeat?

我在投資銀行有一份工作，在私人銀行也有工作。那麼關於投資銀行，如果你考慮撥備，你談到了第一階段和第二階段的模型效應，也許你可以詳細說明一下，並確認這是一次性的模型變化，你預計它不會重複發生？

And then second one on Private Bank, very, very brighter broad-based strength across both Personnel and Wealth Management. It looks like the margin trends you're seeing there, particularly around the deposit book are very different to the Corporate Bank. So perhaps you could touch on that.

其次是私人銀行，在人事和財富管理方面都展現了非常非常強大的整體實力。看起來你看到的利潤率趨勢，特別是存款帳簿方面的趨勢，與企業銀行的利潤率趨勢非常不同。或許您可以談談這方面。

And also the operating leverage in that business, you've managed to grow revenue and still took out costs at the same time. So where do you think the operating leverage could move to? Thank you.

而且，該業務的經營槓桿作用也很強，你既實現了收入成長，又同時削減了成本。那你認為經營槓桿會朝哪個方向發展？謝謝。

So Andrew, I'll briefly take the first item. The -- so, look, it was about EUR100 million of where it was in total in stages 1 and 2. And that was almost entirely driven, I think, by modalities and it was a probability of default model that we changed this quarter. Last quarter was an LGD model.

那麼安德魯，我先簡單回答第一個問題。所以，你看，第一階段和第二階段的總金額大約是 1 億歐元。我認為這幾乎完全是由模式驅動的，而我們本季改變的是違約機率模型。上個季度是LGD模型。

And look, we've been updating the models to reflect where we are today in the interest rate cycle, new data that's come in. But to your question, we're done for the year, the model adjustments that lie ahead are negligible.

而且，我們一直在更新模型，以反映我們目前所處的利率週期階段以及新獲得的數據。但對於你的問題，今年的工作已經結束了，接下來需要進行的模型調整微乎其微。

And actually, over the full year, full firm, the model impact will be -- will also be relatively immaterial. So that's what it is in there. So EUR100 million of the EUR300 million was model items, EUR100 million thereabouts was CRE.

實際上，從全年到整個公司，該模型的影響也將是——也將是相對微不足道的。原來裡面是這樣的。因此，3億歐元中有1億歐元是模型項目，約1億歐元是商業房地產。

And Andrew, on the second question, look, if you compare the Private Bank and the Corporate Bank, we have to be fair because the starting point for the private bank, obviously, from a cost-income ratio, profitability is a completely different one than the Corporate Bank, and we had to expect these improvements.

安德魯，關於第二個問題，你看，如果你比較私人銀行和公司銀行，我們必須公平對待，因為私人銀行的起點，顯然，從成本收入比來看，盈利能力與公司銀行完全不同，我們不得不預料到這些改進。

Now the good thing is that Claudio is really running a very, very clear strategy in doing two things. On the one hand, continuous growth on the top line, in particular when it comes to asset gathering. And if you look at the Assets under Management and Wealth Management, but also in the Private Bank, the deposit campaign and strategy is really looking well.

現在的好消息是，克勞迪奧正在執行一項非常非常明確的策略，即做兩件事。一方面，營收持續成長，尤其是在資產累積方面。如果你看一下資產管理規模和財富管理，以及私人銀行，你會發現存款活動和策略看起來確實非常有效。

And I told you in my initial remarks to the first question that I expect actually the private bankers will also show a very solid Q4. And on the other hand, all the investments we have done over the last years are actually finally paying off in terms of our sales.

我在回答第一個問題時就告訴過你，我預期私人銀行家在第四季也會表現出非常強勁的業績。另一方面，過去幾年我們所做的所有投資，實際上最終都從銷售額中獲得了回報。

And that makes me most confident that next to the nice continuous top line growth we will see a continued flow of cost reduction because we are growing more and more interest rate through processes. In particular, in Personal Banking, you have seen, so to say, month by month, new items when it comes to digital technologies, whether it's a new mobile app.

這讓我非常有信心，除了持續良好的營收成長之外，我們還將看到成本持續下降，因為我們透過流程不斷提高利率。尤其是在個人銀行業務方面，可以說每個月都有新的數位科技產品推出，例如新的行動應用程式。

And you can see that these investments are paying off and that costs are coming down. We are continuously reducing our branches and move into a more digital setup. So that momentum, which you see is obviously forecast and expected to hold also into the next years. But when you compare to the Corporate Bank, we need to be fair, it was a different starting point.

你可以看到這些投資正在產生回報，成本正在下降。我們正在不斷減少分支機構，並向數位化模式轉型。因此，這種勢頭顯然預計會持續到未來幾年。但與企業銀行相比，我們需要公平地說，起點不同。

Stefan Stalmann, Autonomous.

Stefan Stalmann，自主。

Yes, good morning. I would like to follow up on the point that you made Christian regarding the Lufthansa credit card portfolio. I think that's now coming basically on board. Could you maybe remind us roughly of what kind of revenue impact we should expect there?

是的，早安。克里斯蒂安，我想就你之前提到的漢莎航空信用卡組合問題再補充一點。我認為現在基本上已經實現了。您能否大致提醒一下，我們預期會受到怎樣的收入影響？

And the second question relates to your very helpful disclosure of the daily trading P&L, slide 26. You have now had a couple of quarters where you have very strong trading days very much at the end of the quarter or maybe one of the last one or two days of the quarter, around EUR100 million of. Can you provide any color of what exactly is causing this kind of spike towards quarter end? Or is it a pure and work? Thank you.

第二個問題與您在第 26 頁投影片中非常有幫助的每日交易損益揭露有關。現在已經有幾個季度，交易非常強勁，尤其是在季度末，或者可能是季度末的最後幾天，交易額約為 1 億歐元。您能否具體說明一下，是什麼原因導致了季度末的這種高峰？或者，這是一項純粹的工作？謝謝。

Stefan, thank you. So I won't give you the detailed numbers because it's a one-to-one relationship, and we shouldn't do this. But a, we are in the middle of the transition. From an IT point of view, I think this is very important because we talk about a large transition from one bank to the other.

斯特凡，謝謝你。所以我不會告訴你具體的數字，因為這是一對一的關係，我們不應該這樣做。但是，我們正處於轉型期。從IT角度來看，我認為這非常重要，因為我們談論的是從一家銀行到另一家銀行的大規模過渡。

It's going actually very, very smoothly. We started with the pilot at the end of Q2. We have increased the volume then over Q3, and now we are in the middle of moving all clients actually to our offering and very, very encouraging start in October.

一切進展得非常非常順利。我們在第二季末啟動了試點計畫。我們在第三季增加了銷量，現在我們正在將所有客戶轉移到我們的產品中，10 月的開局非常令人鼓舞。

And overall, it is really a revenue increment to the Corporate Bank, which is well in the double digits per year. And in my view with more upside and the more upside is actually the cross-selling, which we are able to do in our Global Hausbank, from Corporate to Private clients. I mean this is the strength of Deutsche Bank that we can now actually apply that to 19 million private clients, and that's what we are going to do.

整體而言，這確實為企業銀行帶來了收入成長，每年成長幅度達到兩位數。在我看來，更大的發展空間在於交叉銷售，而這正是我們全球 Hausbank 所能做到的，從企業客戶到私人客戶。我的意思是，這就是德意志銀行的優勢所在，我們現在可以將這種優勢真正應用於 1,900 萬私人客戶，而這正是我們將要做的。

Secondly, this is a signal to other operators with similar loyal cards and similar systems that Deutsche Bank can handle that. And that makes this business so attractive as you think also when you think about other corporate clients. So on the individual clients, clearly value-enhancing and good revenues, but I expect far more actually from cross-selling and with other corporates.

其次，這也向其他擁有類似會員卡和類似系統的業者發出訊號，顯示德意志銀行能夠處理此類問題。當你想到其他企業客戶時，你就會明白這一點，這也讓這項業務如此具有吸引力。因此，對於個人客戶而言，這顯然能提升價值並帶來良好的收入，但我期望從交叉銷售和與其他企業合作中獲得更大的收益。

And Stefan, it's a good observation that the markets revenues will often have a strong sort of quarter close. It depends on the quarters, but very often, it is essentially as we evaluate reserves. So day 1 P&L and liquidity reserves and the like in the business that, those determinations are made towards the end of a month or a quarter.

斯特凡，你觀察到的市場收入往往會在季度末呈現強勁增長，這是一個很好的觀察。這取決於具體情況，但通常情況下，這基本上就是我們評估儲備金的方式。因此，第一天的損益表和流動資金儲備等業務指標，這些指標都是在月底或季度末確定的。

That is kind of one of the reasons why guidance in the business isn't always perfect to do. But there's also events during those last, say, 10 trading dates that can influence the result that are part of the, as you say, the actual ebb and flow of the markets.

這也是為什麼商業指導並非總是完美無缺的原因之一。但是，在最後 10 個交易日中也會出現一些事件，這些事件可能會影響最終結果，正如你所說，這是市場實際漲跌的一部分。

And then there are also some quarters in which we have specific transactions that are taking place and through our systems. that are, if you like, just happening to take place or designed to take place at the quarter end.

此外，在某些季度，我們的系統中還會進行一些特定的交易，這些交易恰好發生在季度末，或者說是專門設計在季度末進行的。

This is a quarter where, in fact, we had all three of those things. So it was a very strong finish. But to your question, it's not entirely accidental that the quarter can finish strong, especially with the reserve releases. And some of this is difficult to predict precisely.

本季度，這三件事實際上都發生了。所以這是一個非常精彩的收官。但回到你的問題，季度末表現強勁並非完全是偶然的，尤其是在儲備金釋放的情況下。其中一些情況很難精確預測。

Very, very helpful. Thank you.

非常非常有幫助。謝謝。

Nicolas Payen, Kepler Cheuvreux.

尼古拉斯‧佩恩，開普勒‧舍弗勒。

Yes, good morning. I have two questions, please. The first one will be on your structural hedging actually. Could you tell us how you think about your structural hedge supporting your NII trajectory for the next few years?

是的，早安。請問我有兩個問題。第一個問題其實與你的結構性對沖有關。您能否談談您如何看待您的結構性對沖措施在未來幾年內對淨利息收入走勢的支持？

Because at the end of the day, it's supposed to become a strengthening tailwind. So if you just could discuss how you think about it and also maybe with your strong deposit performance, especially in PB, could we see further notional increase supporting further your NII trajectory?

因為歸根究底，它應該會變成一股越來越強的順風。所以，如果您能談談您對此的看法，以及您強勁的存款表現，尤其是在個人存款方面，我們是否可以看到名目存款額進一步增長，從而進一步支持您的淨利息收入增長軌跡？

And the second one will be on your loan developments on -- especially on the investment mix actually been very strong. And just wondering what drove that strong increase sequentially. Thank you.

第二個問題將是關於您的貸款發展——特別是投資組合實際上非常強勁。我只是想知道是什麼因素推動了這種連續強勁的成長。謝謝。

Hi, Nicolas. Thank you. So yes, and I would point you to the disclosure on page 24 of the deck, where we show you the hedge amount and the future benefits we expect from the hedge. The answer is we are relatively programmatic about our caterpillar, so the assessed duration of the deposit books and over the hedges of that and you can see in the disclosure.

你好，尼古拉斯。謝謝。是的，我建議您查看演示文稿第 24 頁的披露信息，其中我們向您展示了對沖金額以及我們預期從對沖中獲得的未來收益。答案是，我們對毛蟲計劃有相對的程序化管理，因此，存款帳簿的評估期限以及對沖措施，您可以在披露文件中看到。

And of course, that increases as the deposit books grow, and particularly as the Private Bank deposit book grow because it's longer -- it's deemed to be longer tenured or modeled is longer tenured. And it is more euro-based than the Corporate Bank book.

當然，隨著存款帳簿的增長，這種情況也會增加，尤其是隨著私人銀行存款帳簿的增長，因為私人銀行存款的期限更長——它被認為是期限更長的存款，或者說，私人銀行存款的期限被設定為期限更長。而且它比企業銀行帳簿更以歐元為基礎。

So that -- what we're showing you is essentially what that -- just the model or the hedge revenues will be in the future, and they do benefit from growth. Think of it as a (inaudible) portfolio here, but growth in deposits will increase that going forward further.

所以，我們向您展示的本質上就是這種模式或對沖收益在未來會是什麼樣子，而且它們確實會受益於成長。你可以把它想像成一個（聽不清楚的）投資組合，但存款的成長將進一步增加它。

I want to make one other point here. I think we asked -- we've talked to this in one of the previous calls, but we also take positions to anticipate deposit growth or protect ourselves from specific market environments that we see. So it is a little bit more dynamic than simply this one 10-year caterpillar. But in essence, it produces the revenues that you see here.

我還要補充一點。我認為我們之前在電話會議中討論過這個問題，但我們也會採取相應的措施來預測存款成長，或保護自己免受特定市場環境的影響。所以它比單純的10年毛蟲要動態一些。但從本質上講，它產生了你在這裡看到的這些收入。

What's driven the loan growth in the Investment Bank? Over the course of the year, it's principally been in the Private Credit portfolio that we talked about. So we have seen good opportunities to deploy the balance sheet there. But also O&A has seen some growth essentially as the business grows and we see more activity, we've also seen some deployment there.

投資銀行貸款成長的驅動因素是什麼？今年以來，主要集中在我們之前提到的私募信貸投資組合。因此，我們看到了在那裡部署資產負債表的良好機會。但隨著業務的成長，O&A 也出現了一些成長，我們看到了更多業務活動，我們也看到了這方面的一些部署。

Tom Hallett, KBW.

湯姆哈雷特，KBW。

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. So firstly, I'm just wondering if there are any underperforming assets on your books which may be deemed non-core because I can see some articles on the DWS data center sales in the pipes. There's previously been talked about India and possibly potent.

您好，感謝您回答我的問題。首先，我只是想知道你們帳面上是否有任何表現不佳的資產，這些資產可能被視為非核心資產，因為我看到一些關於DWS資料中心出售的文章正在醞釀中。之前有人討論過印度，而且可能很有潛力。

And then secondly, maybe thinking a little bit ahead and possibly to the Investor Day, but we look to run the business on a cost-to-income basis or an operating leverage basis or absolute basis, and what are the hurdle rates for allocating capital out to the businesses? And I kind of say that because I see the allocation continue to increase towards the Investment Bank. Thank you.

其次，或許可以稍微展望一下未來，例如投資者日，我們希望以成本收入比、經營槓桿比或絕對值為基礎來經營業務，那麼向各業務分配資本的最低收益率是多少呢？我這麼說是因為我看到投資銀行的資金分配持續增加。謝謝。

So Tom, I'll take that, and Christian may want to add. Let me just, first of all, say that I don't want to speak to specific actions or events in terms of things we might exit until we're done with that. And -- but certainly, we're looking at the businesses, and we've talked about this since Q4 with this SBA shareholder value-add lens with a real focus on driving more of the balance sheet to being above hurdle and showing real discipline there.

湯姆，我接受這個提議，克里斯蒂安可能還想補充一點。首先我想說的是，在我們完成這件事之前，我不想談論我們可能會退出的具體行動或事件。當然，我們正在關注這些企業，而且自第四季度以來，我們一直在討論如何透過 SBA 為股東創造價值，真正專注於推動資產負債表達到更高目標，並展現出真正的自律精神。

Now there are a number of ways to do that. It can be pricing, it can be, again, reallocation of capital internally, but we do have that discipline, and we'll talk more about that on November 17 when we come together for the Investor Deep Dive.

現在有很多方法可以做到這一點。可能是定價問題，也可能是內部資本的重新配置問題，但我們確實有這方面的紀律，我們將在 11 月 17 日的投資者深度研討會上對此進行更詳細的討論。

I think you said it all. The only thing is, Tom, I think we already started to implement that step by step. You have seen some action already in the German mortgage book where Claudio decided to exit sub businesses exactly for that reason.

我想你已經說完了。湯姆，唯一的問題是，我認為我們已經開始逐步實施了。你已經在德國抵押貸款業務中看到了一些動向，克勞迪奧正是因為這個原因決定退出一些子公司業務。

I think we are now in the position to do this. whether it's on the pricing side, whether it's on the more consequent capital allocation. So as James is saying, you will hear far more on that in November 17, but I can also tell you that we started to do that, and it shows the first very positive impact like you see in the Private Bank.

我認為我們現在有能力做到這一點，無論是在定價方面，還是在更重要的資本配置方面。正如 James 所說，11 月 17 日你會聽到更多相關消息，但我也可以告訴你，我們已經開始這樣做了，而且它顯示出了第一個非常積極的影響，就像你在私人銀行看到的那樣。

Okay, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

Anke Reingen, RBC.

Anke Reingen，RBC。

Yeah, good morning and thank you for taking my question. The first is just coming back on Private Credit. I mean I guess you gave quite a little of detail on the credit side. But can you sort of like give us an indication on how much the business has sort of like contributed to the top line on businesses with Private Credit and driven the growth just in terms of is there -- if this could potentially be a risk if that area has become more scrutiny.

是的，早上好，謝謝您回答我的問題。第一個例子是剛剛恢復私人信貸。我的意思是，我想你在信貸方面已經提供了相當多的細節。但是，您能否大致說明一下，這項業務對私人信貸業務的收入貢獻有多大，以及推動了多少成長？如果該領域受到更多審查，這是否可能構成潛在風險？

And then secondly, I know we have your Investor Day coming up in November. But just looking backwards and acknowledging 2025 isn't quite completed. But if you look back on the 2022, 2025 plan, what are sort of like the lessons learned in terms of good and bad when you embark on your new plan? Thank you very much.

其次，我知道你們的投資者日活動將在11月舉行。但僅僅回顧過去，承認 2025 年還沒有完全結束。但回顧 2022 年和 2025 年的計劃，在製定新計劃時，有哪些值得吸取的教訓（好的和壞的）？非常感謝。

Good news. The second is a long open-ended question that I might give to Christian. But we'll both have, I think, lessons learned to share from the last several years. Look, I would simply point to the financing, the FIC financing revenues you see on page 15.

好消息。第二個問題是比較長的開放式問題，我可能會問克里斯蒂安。但我認為，我們倆都會從過去幾年中汲取經驗並加以分享。你看，我只想指出融資方面的問題，也就是你第 15 頁看到的 FIC 融資收入。

And obviously, it's not All Private Credit. There are other activities than Private Credit in there, including incidentally commission and fee income that typically is earned from distribution of assets. So whether it's asset-backed facilities or warehousing of, say, CMBS before issuing -- so there's a bunch of things going on.

顯然，這並非全部都是私人信貸。除了私人信貸業務外，還有其他業務，包括通常透過資產分配獲得的佣金和手續費收入。所以無論是資產支持融資，還是在發行前對商業抵押貸款支持證券 (CMBS) 進行倉儲——總之，有很多事情正在發生。

To your point about risk, look, it's a banking book business, which we think is attractive in terms of its stability in the revenues. It's predictability in terms of the spread that we can earn and its risk profile. I mean we've been -- as we've been preparing for today, we've been racking our brains as to whether we have had a risk event, sort of a loss event at least in the portfolios we've been talking about today.

關於您提到的風險問題，您看，這是一項銀行帳簿業務，我們認為其收入穩定性很有吸引力。就我們能夠獲得的收益和風險狀況而言，它的可預測性很高。我的意思是，在我們為今天做準備的過程中，我們一直在絞盡腦汁地思考，我們是否發生了風險事件，或者說，至少在我們今天討論的投資組合中發生了損失事件。

And I said earlier that we think we've got some really good intellectual properties. So is there a risk to the business in terms of a difficulty in the cycle potentially, but to be honest, given the nature of the business, we don't really see that or our own appetite, acknowledging that our appetite has been disciplined and consistent over the years, as we've been in the business. So the short version is we like the business we think we can continue to grow, but we'll grow in a measured and sort of risk-appropriate way.

我之前說過，我們認為我們擁有一些非常好的智慧財產權。那麼，業務是否會面臨週期性困難的風險呢？但說實話，考慮到業務的性質，我們並不認為有這種風險，而且我們本身也沒有這樣的意願。我們承認，多年來，我們的投資意願一直都很有紀律性和一致性，就像我們一直以來經營業務一樣。簡而言之，我們喜歡這個行業，我們認為我們可以繼續發展，但我們會以一種穩健且風險適宜的方式發展。

Look, Anke, really good question, and I actually need to think a little bit longer about that. But let me start with two or three lessons learned from a good point of view -- from a good side, and then I'll give you also one where I think we could have done better.

安克，你問的這個問題很好，我確實需要再仔細想想。但首先，我想從好的方面——也就是好的一面——談談我學到的兩三條經驗教訓，然後再談談我認為我們可以做得更好的一點。

Number one, remember when we did this, that was 10 days after Russia invaded Ukraine, and a lot of people told us don't go for an IDD and we did it. That shows our underlying confidence in this bank, the strength of this bank, that the Global Hausbank is exactly the right strategy and that we continue with that IDD.

第一，記住我們做這件事的時候，那是在俄羅斯入侵烏克蘭 10 天之後，很多人告訴我們不要進行 IDD 測試，但我們還是做了。這顯示我們對這家銀行的根本信心，這家銀行的實力，全球豪斯銀行正是正確的策略，我們將繼續推動這項IDD策略。

And to be honest, I'm really proud of this organization, what they have delivered in those years, which were full of uncertainties, but they kept to the plan. The team worked very, very hard. And I think it was at the end of the day, exactly the right decision to go out. And that was the first thing that if you are convinced with something, you should also be courageous, and we did this, and it was the right thing.

說實話，我真的為這個組織感到驕傲，為他們在那些充滿不確定性的歲月裡所取得的成就感到驕傲，但他們堅持了計劃。團隊工作非常非常努力。我覺得最後出去走走是正確的決定。首先，如果你確信某件事，就應該勇敢去做，我們做到了，而且這是正確的做法。

Number two, lesson learned, whenever you do an IDD, you need to take your team on a journey, and it's not only sort of say, for the market and for you, but it's also something where you need to motivate 90,000 people. And I think we did this.

第二點，學到的教訓是，無論何時進行IDD，你都需要帶領你的團隊踏上一段旅程，這不僅是為了市場和你自己，也是你需要激勵90,000人的事情。我認為我們做到了。

Can we do even that in a better way? Yes. And we learned some lessons, and you will see it then on November 17, when we talk about how we carry that out internally because it's a story not only for the market, but for our people because our people are driving this bank.

我們能否以更好的方式做到這一點？是的。我們從中吸取了一些教訓，11 月 17 日，當談到我們如何在內部執行這些措施時，你們就會看到了，因為這不僅對市場來說是一個故事，對我們的員工來說也是一個故事，因為正是我們的員工在推動這家銀行的發展。

Number three, I think the Global Hausbank strategy in itself, huge success. And as I said, we can see that it's developing better and better from quarter-to-quarter because people want to have their anchor in times of uncertainty, and that's actually we are that European answer to that.

第三，我認為全球豪斯銀行策略本身就是巨大的成功。正如我所說，我們可以看到它每個季度都在發展得越來越好，因為人們在不確定時期需要有依靠，而我們實際上就是歐洲對此的回應。

Number four, with certain so to say, portfolio decisions, we could have been more consequential, I would say. And that is certainly a lesson which we have learned. And you know what, there is now time to correct that. And therefore, I'm looking forward to the next IDD.

第四，在某些投資組合決策方面，我們本來可以做得更好。這無疑是我們學到的一個教訓。你知道嗎，現在還有時間修正這一點。因此，我很期待下次的IDD。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Chris Hallam, Goldman Sachs.

克里斯‧哈勒姆，高盛集團。

Yeah, good morning, everybody. So two for me, and the first one, once again, on capital. So 14.5% headline CET1, 14% pro forma for Article 468 and the OP risk cadence that you flagged. So you should see around 20 or 25 basis points of capgen via retained earnings in Q4.

是的，大家早安。所以對我來說是兩筆，第一筆，再一次，是用資金。所以，14.5% 的頭條 CET1，14% 的備考第 468 條和您指出的 OP 風險節奏。因此，您應該會在第四季度透過留存收益看到大約 20 或 25 個基點的資本產生量。

So I guess, finishing the year 14.2%, 14.3%. You've mentioned you want to finish around 14%. So I guess just anything else to flag in Q4 maybe on the RWA side or on an accrual rate above 50%? And then anything you can already see coming early next year. I'm just trying to think about what sort of position you're going to be in by the time we get to Q4 numbers in the AGM?

所以我覺得，今年最終的成績是 14.2% 或 14.3%。你曾經提到你想完成大約 14%。所以我想，第四季還有什麼需要特別注意的嗎？例如風險加權資產方面，或應計率超過 50% 的情況？然後就是明年年初即將發生的事。我只是想了解一下，到我們召開年度股東大會公佈第四季業績時，你們的處境會是怎麼樣的？

And then the second, which is a slight follow-up to the points you made earlier, Christian. In the Private Bank, you've kind of had this story so far this year of growing deposits but declining loans. And so what's your best sense of how that evolves in the coming few quarters or through the balance of next year because rates are coming down, borrowing is becoming more affordable.

其次，這是對你之前提出的觀點的略微補充，克里斯蒂安。今年以來，私人銀行的情況大致是存款成長但貸款下降。那麼，您認為未來幾季或明年剩餘時間裡，這種情況會如何發展？因為利率正在下降，借貸變得更容易。

The economy is doing a bit better. You've been investing in the digital setup as you mentioned. But then against that, you've got this capital discipline focus. So I'm just trying to get the balance of perspectives there. Thank you.

經濟形勢略有改善。正如你所提到的，你一直在投資數位化設備。但與之相對的，是這種對資本紀律的重視。所以我只是想平衡一下各種觀點。謝謝。

Thanks, Chris. It's James. I'll take the first, and I think Christian will do the second. Look, the only thing that is at this point now seasonal, given the adjustments we walked you through is really the share repurchases we do for equity comp delivery in the first quarter.

謝謝你，克里斯。是詹姆斯。我來做第一個，我覺得克里斯蒂安會做第二個。你看，鑑於我們之前向你介紹的調整，目前唯一具有季節性意義的就是我們在第一季為支付股權補償而進行的股票回購。

Now the first quarter tends to be seasonally from an earnings perspective also among the strongest. But otherwise, it is simply the math of organic or net income, less the 50% payout assumption and then offset by growth or demand in the businesses.

從獲利角度來看，第一季通常也是季節性因素導致的業績最強勁的季度之一。但除此之外，它只是有機收入或淨收入的數學計算，減去 50% 的派息假設，然後透過業務成長或需求來抵消。

Now sometimes we overestimate demand. And that can, as I said earlier, produce excess capital. But we, of course, wish to support the businesses, support clients with the capital deployment. So we want to be reasonably conservative on a capital planning to ensure that we have that room to grow.

有時我們會高估需求。正如我之前所說，這可能會產生過剩資本。當然，我們希望支持企業，支援客戶的資金部署。因此，我們希望在資本規劃方面採取較為保守的做法，以確保我們有足夠的成長空間。

You have had lots of changes in rules and methodology and so on over the years, I would see that slowing down now that we're in CRR, that should become more rare. Now I want to be careful about a forward-looking statement given how much is built into this.

多年來，規則和方法等方面都發生了許多變化，我認為現在我們進入了 CRR 階段，這種情況應該會放緩，而且會變得更加罕見。鑑於其中包含很多因素，我現在想對任何前瞻性聲明保持謹慎。

But internal capital generation, all of that considered in a range of about 25 to 30 basis points has been if you peel through it all kind of a norm. And the question is, is going to be where all of the ingredients fall out going forward. But short version is we do feel we're in a strong position to generate excess capital and do so kind of on an accelerating basis in the years ahead.

但是，考慮到內部資本的產生，在 25 到 30 個基點的範圍內波動，如果你仔細分析，就會發現這其實是一種常態。問題是，接下來所有這些因素將如何演變。但簡而言之，我們確實認為我們處於有利地位，能夠產生過剩資本，並且在未來幾年內，這種產生過剩資本的速度將會加快。

Look, Chris, on the Private Bank, we clearly have our plans to continue to grow deposits and use that kind of attractive funding to replace more expenses sources. On the business overall, I would say we expect a flattish loan growth in Private Bank overall.

克里斯，關於私人銀行，我們顯然有計劃繼續增加存款，並利用這種有吸引力的資金來取代更多的支出來源。就整體業務而言，我認為我們預計私人銀行整體貸款成長將保持穩定。

Now clearly, some growth to see in Wealth Management. I think it's an attractive area where we can actually grow and we have plans to do so. In other areas, in the Private Bank when it comes to mortgages, I would say it's rather flattish because, again, we are absolutely measuring that portfolio via SBA. And if it's not value accretive, we won't grow that.

現在很明顯，財富管理領域出現了一些成長。我認為這是一個很有吸引力的領域，我們可以在這裡發展壯大，我們也計劃這樣做。在其他領域，例如私人銀行的抵押貸款業務，我認為情況比較平穩，因為我們完全是透過美國小型企業管理局 (SBA) 來衡量該投資組合的。如果它不能增值，我們就不會發展它。

And overall, in the Private Bank, like I said before, Chris, if you look out longer for the next three, four, five years, the real big upside in the Private Bank is on the asset gathering business and on the investment business and not only with our market position in Wealth Management, but in particular, when it comes to Retail and Personal Banking.

總的來說，正如我之前所說，克里斯，如果你放眼未來三、四、五年，私人銀行真正的巨大成長潛力在於資產募集業務和投資業務，不僅在於我們在財富管理領域的市場地位，更在於零售和個人銀行業務。

And that's all tied to the plans of the German government because you will see that next to the state pension, you -- there is a necessity that on the private side, people need to do more, and this is where we are looking into. There we are working on a digital offer. There we are working on offer for retail clients to grow that business.

這一切都與德國政府的計畫息息相關，因為你會發現，除了國家退休金之外，私人領域也需要人們付出更多，而這正是我們正在研究的領域。我們正在那裡開發數位化產品。我們正在努力為零售客戶提供服務，以幫助他們拓展業務。

And if you think about our Postbank clients, which are the majority of the retail clients and their access to those products, it's actually for the time being not very much used and that shows the opportunities we have in that business. So our focus when it comes to the Private Bank is clearly on the asset gathering side.

如果你想想我們的郵政銀行客戶，他們佔零售客戶的大多數，以及他們獲得這些產品的途徑，就會發現目前這些途徑實際上並沒有得到充分利用，這表明我們在該業務領域擁有機會。因此，就私人銀行而言，我們的重點顯然在於資產募集方面。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Jeremy Sigee, BNP Paribas Exane.

Jeremy Sigee，法國巴黎銀行 Exane。

Thank you. Just a couple of follow-ups, please, on the Private Bank and the Corporate Bank. On the Private Bank, you talked about further cost savings. Are there any step change, cost saves still to come through in the Private Bank, particularly from integration-related or system takeout? Any step change? Or is it just incremental process efficiency kind of bit by bit from here?

謝謝。關於私人銀行和企業銀行，請再補充幾個問題。在私人銀行業務中，您談到了進一步節省成本。私人銀行領域是否還有任何變革性變化或成本節約的空間，特別是與整合或系統剝離相關的空間？有任何實質改變嗎？或者說，這只是從現在開始，一點一點地逐步提高流程效率？

And then second question on the Corporate Bank. You mentioned growth in trade finance year-on-year. And I just wondered what areas that was coming from. Is it Germany, rest of world? Any particular industry sectors? Thank you.

接下來是關於企業銀行的第二個問題。您提到了貿易融資年增的情況。我只是想知道這些聲音來自哪些地區。是德國，還是世界其他地方？是否有特定的行業領域？謝謝。

Jeremy, on the Private Bank, to be honest, let's also wait for the IDD because you get a quite good outlook for the next three years, what we are doing there. But it's a continuous improvement, continuous improvement from actions, which we have started to implement.

傑里米，關於私人銀行，說實話，我們也等等IDD報告吧，因為從報告上我們可以了解到未來三年我們在那裡所做的事情的相當不錯的前景。但這是一個持續改進的過程，是透過行動不斷改進的過程，我們已經開始實施這些行動。

If you think about the plan how to reduce branches and make that business more digital for our clients, then this is something which you plan in '23, '24. And we now see the effects. And therefore, I'm so happy actually with the quarter-over-quarter cost takeout Claudio can do in particular in the Personal Bank, but that is going to continue because we know already now how many branches we closed in '26 and later on.

如果你考慮如何減少分支機構，讓業務更加數位化以更好地服務我們的客戶，那麼這就是你在 2023 年、2024 年的計劃。現在我們看到了這些後果。因此，我真的很高興克勞迪奧能夠在個人銀行部門逐季削減成本，而且這種情況還會繼續下去，因為我們現在已經知道我們在 2026 年及以後關閉了多少家分行。

Secondly, we are working constantly on straight through processing. And that is with regard to payments, that is with regard to the lending process, that is with regard to the investment process. And that is the reason why we have changed the bank initiatives and investments. And you will see that as, obviously, then cost efficiencies going forward. So I would expect a continuous improvement on that side, but more details in the IDD.

其次，我們不斷努力實現直通式加工。這指的是付款方面，指的是貸款流程方面，指的是投資流程方面。這就是我們改變銀行策略和投資方向的原因。很顯然，這將帶來未來的成本效益。因此，我預計這方面會持續改進，但更多細節將在IDD中說明。

And Jeremy, I'm not aware on the trade finance question. I'm not aware of any particular sort of trend or concentration that we're seeing in terms of where the growth is coming from. You'll recall that we've been sort of waiting for the growth from the balances we kind of were stuck at a kind of [115] level. We do now begin to see some growth. And the place where our emphasis is in structured trade finance. And so that's really the business that we're seeking to grow.

傑瑞米，關於貿易融資的問題，我並不了解。我目前沒有發現任何特定的成長趨勢或集中方向。你可能還記得，我們​​一直在等待增長，因為我們的餘額一直停留在 [115] 水平。我們現在確實開始看到一些成長。而我們重點關注的領域是結構性貿易融資。所以，這正是我們努力發展的事業。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Mate Nimtz, UBS.

馬特‧尼姆茨，瑞銀集團。

Yes, good afternoon. Just three shorter questions, please. The first one would be on the IB. In the cost base, G&A expenses show about EUR100 million increase quarter-on-quarter. And I'm aware that some of that is some pickup in nonoperating items litigation, but any further explanation on that step-up? And how should we think about the year-end from this perspective?

是的，下午好。請只問三個簡短的問題。第一個會在IB上。在成本基礎中，一般及行政費用較上月增加約 1 億歐元。我知道其中一部分原因是非經營性項目訴訟案件增加，但對於這種增加還有什麼進一步的解釋嗎？那麼從這個角度來看，我們該如何看待年末呢？

Then the second question is still mainly staying with the IB commercial real estate. Could you give us an update on that asset class or on that part of the book. Provisions are still at a high level, particularly stage 3. I think in the commentary, you called out on the slides West Coast defaulted assets still. Any thoughts you can share on the outlook in Q4 and next year would be helpful.

那麼第二個問題仍然主要與IB商業不動產有關。能否向我們介紹一下該資產類別或本書的這部分內容？物資供應仍處於較高水平，特別是第三階段。我認為你在評論中指出，幻燈片顯示西海岸的資產仍然違約。如果您能分享一下對第四季和明年前景的看法，我們將不勝感激。

And just the last one on the Private Bank. I'm cognizant this is something you'll talk about, hopefully, if no have peaks. But we are seeing return on tangible equity now firmly above 10% for the second quarter in a row. 12.6% in Q3. Impressive step up from a mid-single-digit level in the previous couple of quarters, and that's without much movement, obviously, on lending.

私人銀行的最後一期。我知道這是你會談到的事情，希望如此，如果沒有高峰的話。但我們看到，有形權益報酬率已連續第二季穩居10%以上，第三季為12.6%。與前幾季個位數的水平相比，這是一個令人印象深刻的成長，而且顯然，這還是在貸款方面沒有太大變化的情況下實現的。

Is this the bare minimum level we should be having in mind as a base going into 2026 and any further improvement on the cost side or coming from investment products will offer the upside. Is that the right way to think about it? Thank you.

這是我們應該牢記的2026年基本水準嗎？成本方面的任何進一步改善或來自投資產品的任何收益都將帶來上漲空間。這是正確的思考方式嗎？謝謝。

Thank you for your question. I'll take the last one. Look, we clearly expect further operating leverage in the Private Bank, and we will talk about that in 2.5 weeks' time. But very happy that we are above 10%. That's what we promised you. That's what we delivered. And from here, the way is up.

感謝您的提問。我選最後一個。你看，我們顯然預期私人銀行將進一步提高營運槓桿，我們將在 2.5 週後討論這個問題。但非常高興我們超過了10%。這是我們向你承諾過的。這就是我們交付的。從這裡開始，一路往上。

And then, Mate, on the two items you said, IB cost base, nothing noteworthy there. There was a bank levy that we booked in Q3 that gets mostly allocated to IB and then some odds and ends in terms of professional services, market data going up and the like, but things that I would call out.

還有，夥計，關於你提到的兩項，IB成本基礎，沒什麼值得注意的。第三季我們計入了一筆銀行稅，這筆稅款大部分分配給了投資銀行，還有一些零碎的費用，例如專業服務費、市場數據上漲等等，這些都是我想特別指出的。

On CRE, we've talked about this and going on, I think, two years plus, and there's obviously been a cycle and that cycle has taken us close to the severe stress that we initially called out on a -- for the stress tested portfolio. I do -- while I'm cautious about calling an end to this, and I don't think we're there, there's still going to be some provisions we think that will come in time.

關於商業地產，我們已經討論過這個問題兩年多了，顯然經歷了一個週期，而這個週期已經讓我們接近了我們最初在壓力測試投資組合中指出的嚴重壓力。是的——雖然我對結束這一切持謹慎態度，而且我認為我們還沒有到那一步，但我們認為，隨著時間的推移，仍然會有一些措施出台。

But as I've said before, they tend to be valuation adjustments on existing defaulted positions. And in a sense, they're becoming more and more concentrated, as we called out last quarter, in the West Coast of the United States in the office portfolio.

但正如我之前所說，它們通常是對現有違約部位的估值調整。從某種意義上說，正如我們上個季度所指出的，它們的投資越來越集中在美國西海岸的辦公大樓投資組合中。

So as that sort of leads out and comes to a steadier level, I would expect to see this begin to fall off in the next several quarters. And you've seen again some signs of strength as cautious as I'd like to be on East Coast, I think office has significantly recovered, and other aspects of commercial real estate outside of office have been strong. So we're looking at it as we think in a healing process.

因此，隨著這種情況逐漸結束並趨於穩定，我預計在接下來的幾個季度裡，這種情況會開始下降。儘管我對東海岸市場持謹慎態度，但你再次看到了一些強勁的跡象，我認為辦公大樓市場已經顯著復甦，辦公大樓以外的其他商業房地產領域也表現強勁。所以我們把它看作是一個療癒過程。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Kian Abouhossein, JPMorgan.

Kian Abouhossein，摩根大通。

Yes, hi. Just coming back to CRE. On page 29, if I look at the stage 3 loans in the IB, I guess that's where we some of the CRE issues arose. And just trying to understand if you can give a little bit more detail? Is there several loans? Is this one or two loans where you had default issues?

是的，你好。剛回到房地產行業。在第 29 頁，如果我查看 IB 的第三階段貸款，我想這就是一些商業房地產問題出現的地方。我只是想了解一下，能否提供更多細節？有多筆貸款嗎？你遇到違約問題的貸款是一兩筆嗎？

And coming back to the outlook question. I mean, if I look at the common advance on page 30, advanced stages on the down cycle reached, but US office headwinds remain, considering most of your book is actually office related.

回到前景展望這個問題。我的意思是，如果我看一下第 30 頁的共同進展，就會發現已經進入下行週期的後期階段，但考慮到你的書大部分內容實際上都與辦公有關，美國辦公市場仍然面臨不利因素。

I'm just wondering what gives you the confidence on your previous statement, the last question that actually you're going to see an improvement here considering your low coverage levels.

我只是想知道，是什麼讓你對你之前的說法，也就是最後一個問題，如此有信心，認為考慮到你目前的低覆蓋率，情況實際上會有所改善。

And then the second question is on --

第二個問題是…--

Sorry, go ahead.

抱歉，請繼續。

Apologies, yeah. Risk-weighted asset outlook. How should we think about the risk-weighted asset outlook? Should we think about it's going to remain flattish going forward? Or should we think about growth, but then you potentially have further optimizations to do, which leads to the flattish number, i.e., growth with that is what I'm trying to get to.

抱歉，是的。風險加權資產展望。我們該如何看待風險加權資產前景？我們是否應該認為未來經濟情勢將保持穩定？或者我們應該考慮成長，但那樣的話可能還需要進一步優化，這會導致成長趨於平緩，也就是說，我想要達到的就是這種成長。

Yeah. So Kian, thanks for the follow-up. Look, it's a handful of loans. And I'd say concentrated in this quarter, say less than 10. So there was a concentration of events that -- where we saw valuation changes. And one thing I've been tracking now for several quarters is the number of loans that is coming up for refinancing or extensions where we see either events or new appraisals coming down the pike.

是的。Kian，謝謝你的後續跟進。你看，這只是幾筆貸款而已。而且我認為集中在本季度，應該不到 10 個。因此，出現了一系列事件，導致估值發生變化。過去幾季我一直在關注的一件事是，即將進行再融資或延期的貸款數量，我們看到要么是發生了某些事件，要么是出現了新的評估結果。

And Kian, the answer to your question is those things are beginning to slow down, what I'd call perhaps the forward-looking indicators on these things. So again, I want to be cautious now having thought we'd found the bottom and discovered false ons. But it does feel like it's very late cycle at this point on this down cycle in commercial real estate.

基安，你問題的答案是，這些事情的發展速度開始放緩，我稱之為這些事情的前瞻性指標。所以，我再次強調，既然我們以為已經觸底反彈，結果卻發現是假象，那麼現在我想保持謹慎。但感覺現在商業地產的這輪下行週期已經接近尾聲了。

On RWA, to be honest, we'd like to see healthy growth just of the businesses and client demand. And as I said earlier, we think our capital plans absolutely accommodate that growth. But to your point, we will continue to work on efficiency and also sort of portfolio sort of concentration, if you like, or optimization as time goes on.

坦白說，對於RWA，我們希望看到的只是企業和客戶需求的健康成長。正如我之前所說，我們認為我們的資本計畫完全能夠滿足這種成長需求。但正如您所說，我們將繼續致力於提高效率，並隨著時間的推移，不斷優化投資組合，或進行某種程度的集中投資。

And we think that, that can contribute to even further improving revenue to RWA profiles and more efficient capital usage. And that would be an offset to the simple, if you like, unweighted growth in the balance sheet and business.

我們認為，這有助於進一步提高 RWA 結構的收入和更有效率的資本利用率。這將抵消資產負債表和業務中簡單的、未經加權的成長。

And just on when you say you're coming to the kind of end of the cycle of these kind of readjustments on the loans, the duration must be quite long in the CRE book more than two years at least. So I'm just wondering why we would think about having reached the peak or maturity of the cycle of making adjustments at this point?

而當你說這類貸款調整週期即將結束時，商業房地產貸款的期限必須相當長，至少超過兩年。所以我想知道，為什麼我們會認為此時已經達到了調整週期的頂峰或成熟階段？

Typically, Kian, five year -- the structure is typically five years. We tend to be extendable. And so -- and the point to your question is, we haven't done a great deal of new lending. So this is a portfolio that's now quite seasoned in terms of either having been extended and refinanced or having gone into default and through sort of a restructuring or into real estate owned.

通常情況下，Kian 五年——該結構通常為五年。我們通常具有很強的可擴展性。所以——也就是你問題的重點——我們並沒有進行大量的新貸款。所以，這個投資組合現在已經相當成熟了，要么已經延期再融資，要么已經違約並通過某種重組或轉為房地產所有權。

So it's really a question of seasoning of the existing portfolio and a forward look-on to loans, as I say, that are coming up to events. But those that are still open are robust properties, and that's other than a handful, and that's really what's giving us a forward view.

所以，正如我所說，這實際上是一個對現有投資組合進行調整以及對即將發生的事件的貸款進行前瞻性展望的問題。但那些仍在開放的房產都是穩健的房產，而且數量不多，這才是真正讓我們看到未來前景的原因。

Thank you.

謝謝。

So it looks like there are no more questions at this time, and I would like to turn the conference back over to Ioana Patriniche for any closing remarks.

看來目前沒有其他問題了，我想把會議交還給 Ioana Patriniche，請她做總結發言。

Thank you for joining us and for your questions. For any follow-ups, please come through to the Investor Relations team, and we look forward to speaking to you at our fourth quarter call.

感謝您的參與與提問。如有任何後續事宜，請聯絡投資者關係團隊，我們期待在第四季度電話會議上與您交流。