Cosan SA (CSAN) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to Cosan's third quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

大家早安，感謝大家的等待。歡迎參加 Cosan 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）

Please note that this conference call is being recorded and will be made available on the company's Investor Relations website at cosan.com.br. You can also download the presentation including the English version in the chat icon. (Operator Instructions)

請注意，本次電話會議正在錄製中，並將在公司投資者關係網站 cosan.com.br 上發布。您也可以下載演示文稿，包括聊天圖示中的英文版本。（操作員說明）

We would like to highlight that the information provided in this presentation and any statements that may be made during the conference call regarding the business outlook, projections and operational and financial targets of Cosan are based on the company's management's beliefs and assumptions as well as information currently available.

我們想強調的是，本簡報中提供的資訊以及電話會議期間可能發表的有關 Cosan 的業務前景、預測以及營運和財務目標的任何聲明均基於公司管理層的信念和假設以及當前的資訊可用的。

Forward-looking statements are not performance guarantees. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors should understand that general economic conditions, market conditions and other operational factors may affect Cosan's future performance and lead to outcomes that differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

前瞻性陳述並非業績保證。它們涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們涉及未來事件，因此取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。投資者應了解，總體經濟狀況、市場狀況和其他營運因素可能會影響 Cosan 的未來業績，並導致結果與此類前瞻性聲明中表達的結果有重大差異。

I will now turn the call over to Mr. Rodrigo Araujo.

我現在將把電話轉給羅德里戈·阿勞霍先生。

Hi, everyone. Good morning. Thank you for joining us in our earnings call for the third quarter of 2024.

大家好。早安.感謝您參加我們的 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。

Starting here with management priorities. I think that's something that we've been reinforcing over time, the fact that we're focused on being quite disciplined in terms of capital allocation and looking at improving leverage by doing liability management and portfolio management at Cosan, especially to navigate this higher interest rate scenario.

從管理優先事項開始。我認為，隨著時間的推移，我們一直在加強這一點，事實上，我們專注於在資本配置方面保持嚴格的紀律，並透過在Cosan 進行負債管理和投資組合管理來提高槓桿率，特別是為了駕馭這種更高的利率率場景。

We continue to be focused on the execution of what we have in the portfolio, continuing to deliver the expected results from the business plans of the different businesses, of course, always with high safety standards and focused on developing our talent pipeline.

我們將繼續專注於執行我們的投資組合，繼續實現不同業務的業務計劃的預期結果，當然，始終保持高安全標準，並專注於發展我們的人才管道。

And on this quarter, specifically, it's relevant that we had a lot of different movements in management positions within the group, and they were clearly supported by the pipeline of executives that we have internally and have been developing over time. And I think that it shows the ability that we have to have people ready to occupy different positions within the group and to have management positions occupied by people that are being developed internally.

具體而言，在本季度，我們在集團內的管理職位上進行了許多不同的變動，而且這些變動顯然得到了我們內部的、隨著時間的推移而不斷發展的高管隊伍的支持。我認為這表明我們有能力讓人員準備好擔任集團內的不同職位，並讓內部培養的人員擔任管理職位。

And also, it's important to highlight that we continue to support the agenda of contracted growth, investing in the opportunities that we have in the different structural projects of the different businesses within the group. In terms of portfolio management and liability management this quarter, first, I will highlight in Cosan, the fact that we amortized the debentures, the RLOG debentures that we announced last quarter.

此外，重要的是要強調，我們繼續支持合約成長議程，投資於集團內不同業務的不同結構項目的機會。在本季的投資組合管理和負債管理方面，首先，我將在 Cosan 中強調，我們攤銷了上季宣布的 RLOG 債券。

So basically taking out all of the amortizations from '24 to '26. We also recently issued debentures in the domestic market in Brazil to support the liability management of our '27 bonds that are still outstanding and become callable at par January '25. In terms of portfolio management, in Compass, we completed the acquisition of the control of Compagas, the natural gas distribution company in the state of Paraná in Brazil.

因此，基本上扣除了 24 年至 26 年間的所有攤銷費用。我們最近也在巴西國內市場發行了債券，以支持我們 27 年債券的負債管理，這些債券仍然未償還，並可按面值於 25 年 1 月贖回。在投資組合管理方面，Compass完成了巴西巴拉那州天然氣分銷公司Compagas控制權的收購。

We also concluded the sale of Norgás, basically relevant portfolio management with inflows that support the growth of Compass' portfolio. In Moove, we concluded the acquisition of Pax Group that brings important flexibility in terms of industrial operations for Moove. And in Radar, we concluded the sale of Vista Alegre Farm.

我們也完成了 Norgás 的出售，基本上是相關的投資組合管理，資金流入支持 Compass 投資組合的成長。在Moove，我們完成了對Pax Group的收購，這為Moove的工業運作帶來了重要的靈活性。在 Radar 中，我們完成了 Vista Alegre 農場的出售。

Looking at the highlights of the Q3 '24. First, we look at EBITDA under management that is aligned with the Q3 '23. We also had positive net income of around BRL300 million comparing to a little bit over BRL600 million in '23. Basically, the main differences are the impact of the dividends from Vale that we received in '23, and we accounted for Vale back then at fair value and now we have the equity pickup method.

回顧 24 年第三季的亮點。首先，我們檢視與 23 年第三季一致的管理下的 EBITDA。我們的淨利潤也約為 3 億雷亞爾，而 20 年為 6 億雷亞爾多一點。基本上，主要的區別是我們在 23 年收到的淡水河谷股息的影響，當時我們以公允價值對淡水河谷進行會計處理，現在我們採用了權益提取法。

And also in this quarter, we have the impact -- the negative impact of the [TRSP] -- of Cosan's shares in Cosan. In terms of safety metrics, we see a slight increase compared to the second quarter of '24. Basically, we had a quarter with a higher number of accidents in the third quarter.

同樣在本季度，我們也受到了 Cosan 所持股票的影響——[TRSP] 的負面影響。就安全指標而言，我們看到與 2024 年第二季相比略有增加。基本上，第三季是事故數量較多的一個季度。

Of course, we continue to be very focused on having the highest safety standards and improving our safety metrics. We continue to be within the acceptable level. And even though we're focused on reducing any incidents or accidents, we still have our safety metrics within the acceptable levels.

當然，我們仍然非常注重擁有最高的安全標準並提高我們的安全指標。我們仍然處於可接受的水平內。儘管我們致力於減少事件或事故，但我們的安全指標仍然處於可接受的水平之內。

Looking at dividends received this quarter, slightly above BRL300 million. Net debt basically flat compared to Q2, BRL21.7 billion and our debt service coverage ratio of 1.2 times in the last 12 months, slightly below Q2 '24.

從本季收到的股息來看，略高於 3 億雷亞爾。淨債務與第二季基本持平，為 217 億雷亞爾，過去 12 個月我們的償債覆蓋率為 1.2 倍，略低於 2024 年第二季。

Looking at the portfolio and the results of the different businesses, starting with Rumo, we had higher volumes transported in Rumo with higher tariffs as well, which resulted in higher margins in the third quarter. We also gained market share in the Port of Santos.

看看不同業務的投資組合和結果，從 Rumo 開始，我們在 Rumo 的運輸量更高，關稅也更高，這導致第三季的利潤率更高。我們也獲得了桑托斯港的市場份額。

So we had an important quarter in terms of operational results in Rumo. Compass increased the volume of natural gas distributed, and we also have the progress of Edge operations. We continue to connect new consumers in the open natural gas market in Brazil.

因此，就 Rumo 的營運表現而言，我們度過了一個重要的季度。Compass增加了天然氣的分配量，我們也有Edge營運的進展。我們繼續在巴西開放的天然氣市場連接新消費者。

So we had the recovery of volumes and the progress of Edge operations resulted in a stable EBITDA Q-on-Q. We also had in Moove, even though we had lower volumes this quarter, we continue to have a product mix and commercial strategy supporting our EBITDA increase. We had 9% EBITDA increase Q-on-Q in Moove.

因此，我們的銷售量有所恢復，邊緣業務的進展導致了環比穩定的 EBITDA。我們在 Moove 也有，儘管本季銷售量較低，但我們繼續擁有支援 EBITDA 成長的產品組合和商業策略。Moove 的 EBITDA 較上季成長了 9%。

In Radar, even though the results of the lease of agricultural properties were in line with last year, we had lower EBITDA mainly because last year, we did the appraisal of the land in the third quarter. This year, we expect to have the appraisal occurring in Q4 '24. So that's the difference between quarters.

在雷達方面，儘管農業地產的租賃結果與去年持平，但我們的 EBITDA 較低，主要是因為去年我們在第三季對土地進行了評估。今年，我們預計將在 24 年第 4 季進行評估。這就是季度之間的差異。

In Raizen, we had the impact of drier weather and fires reducing the sugarcane crushing levels for this quarter. And we also had lower ethanol prices impacting the company's EBITDA for this quarter. This was partially offset by better results in the sugar business.

在Raizen，我們受到乾燥天氣和火災的影響，降低了本季的甘蔗壓榨水平。乙醇價格下降也影響了公司本季的 EBITDA。這被製糖業務較好的業績所部分抵銷。

And we also had the contribution of Vale to our EBITDA through the equity pickup method of around BRL500 million. So looking at the EBITDA under management, we came from BRL8.1 billion in '23 to slightly above that BRL8.2 billion in '24.

淡水河谷也透過股權收購方式為我們的 EBITDA 做出了約 5 億雷亞爾的貢獻。因此，從管理下的 EBITDA 來看，我們從 23 年的 81 億雷亞爾上升到了 24 年的 82 億雷亞爾。

Finally, looking at our debt profile and our financial metrics, as we mentioned, you see that net debt was slightly above Q2, BRL21.6 billion to BRL21.7 billion. We also had Vale shares appreciating slightly Q-on-Q, BRL11.3 billion. And we also had our interest coverage ratio reducing slightly from 1.3 times to 1.2 times for the last 12 months.

最後，正如我們所提到的，看看我們的債務狀況和財務指標，您會發現淨債務略高於第二季度，為 216 億雷亞爾至 217 億雷亞爾。淡水河谷股價環比小漲 113 億雷亞爾。過去 12 個月，我們的利息覆蓋率也從 1.3 倍小幅下降至 1.2 倍。

In terms of the maturity profile, the amortization profile, you can see that we've already tackled all the amortizations that we had from '24 to '26, and we are currently doing a local debt capital market transaction in Brazil to do the liability management of the '27 bonds. They become callable at par January next year.

在期限概況、攤銷概況方面，您可以看到我們已經處理了從'24到'26的所有攤銷，並且我們目前正在巴西進行本地債務資本市場交易以處理負債'27 債券的管理。它們將於明年一月以面額贖回。

So that's the next target in terms of liability management. Especially comparing to last year, you see that we improved the maturity profile to 6.4 years. And the average cost -- we've been able to reduce the average cost to CDI plus 1.37%.

這就是責任管理的下一個目標。特別是與去年相比，您會發現我們將期限延長至 6.4 年。平均成本－我們已經能夠將 CDI 的平均成本降低 1.37%。

So we've been able to navigate the favorable debt capital scenario in Brazil to not only lengthen the maturity, but reduce the spreads at the same time. Finally, looking at our cash flow for the period, the main highlight is the fact that we ended up the second quarter with a higher cash balance.

因此，我們能夠駕馭巴西有利的債務資本情景，不僅延長了期限，還同時降低了利差。最後，看看我們這段期間的現金流，主要亮點是我們在第二季結束時擁有更高的現金餘額。

That was mainly because we liquidated a debt debenture transaction in Brazil in the end of the quarter, and we only prepaid the RLOG debentures during the third quarter. So this BRL1.2 billion of liability management happened during the quarter. So basically, that's the main reason for the cash balance to come down from BRL3.9 billion to somewhere around BRL2.5 billion.

這主要是因為我們在季度末清算了巴西的一筆債務債券交易，而我們只在第三季預付了RLOG債券。因此，本季發生了 12 億雷亞爾的負債管理。所以基本上，這是現金餘額從 39 億雷亞爾減少到 25 億雷亞爾左右的主要原因。

So thank you very much for joining our call for the third quarter, and we're going to move on to our Q&A session.

非常感謝您加入我們第三季的電話會議，我們將繼續進行問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Isabella Simonato.

（操作員說明）伊莎貝拉·西蒙納托。

Nelson, I'd like to take this opportunity since you're here, considering the changes that were announced, the management changes, I wish to understand the context in which that takes place. It is relatively clear.

納爾遜，我想藉此機會，因為你在這裡，考慮到已宣布的變化、管理層的變化，我希望了解這些變化的背景。是比較清楚的。

But more than that, I'd like to hear how you see Raizen as we speak. Apparently, when we look at all changes, there is a greater focus on Raizen because of your transfer. What can we expect from Raizen under your management?

但更重要的是，我想聽聽您如何看待 Raizen。顯然，當我們審視所有變化時，由於你的轉會，我們更加關注 Raizen。在您的管理下，我們對 Raizen 有何期待？

Isa, thank you for the question. What we have noticed from the market coincides with our motivation to promote that change. We noticed over the past few months, a clear need for a change or an adjustment in Raizen's portfolio and the way Raizen is conducting its business recently.

伊莎，謝謝你的提問。我們從市場上註意到的情況與我們推動這項變革的動機不謀而合。在過去的幾個月裡，我們注意到 Raizen 的投資組合以及 Raizen 最近開展業務的方式明顯需要改變或調整。

That's why we made the decision to make that change to promote the change, not only of the CEO, but also the CFO so that we begin a new phase on how to manage that Raizen portfolio management. Looking at the context to your question, what is my perception? It is that over the years, we moved away from our core business.

這就是為什麼我們決定進行這項變革，以促進執行長和財務長的變革，以便我們開始一個關於如何管理 Raizen 投資組合管理的新階段。看看你問題的背景，我的看法是什麼？就是這些年來，我們遠離了我們的核心業務。

We created a number of peripheral initiatives that over time stole the attention of management, growing the structure, making the structure, perhaps way too complex for the market to understand all the revenue sources in our portfolio. And we now enter into a post-investment phase to make sure that the investments made will have an appropriate return to investors and that we should return to Raizen a focus to its core business as it deserves.

我們創建了許多外圍計劃，隨著時間的推移，這些計劃吸引了管理層的注意力，擴大了結構，使結構可能過於複雜，以至於市場無法了解我們投資組合中的所有收入來源。我們現在進入了投資後階段，以確保所做的投資能夠為投資者帶來適當的回報，我們應該讓 Raizen 重新專注於其核心業務，因為它應有的。

So we will focus on mobility and sugar and ethanol. And the peripheral activities will be treated as we deem needed over the next months and years. So it is a change. It was a need perceived by Cosan and Shell.

因此，我們將重點放在流動性、糖和乙醇。在接下來的幾個月和幾年裡，外圍活動將根據我們認為需要的情況進行處理。所以這是一個改變。Cosan 和殼牌公司意識到了這項需求。

It is important to mention that to your question, the change was made in common agreement with the Shell partner. This is my last call with you as Cosan. Starting now, I will meet you at the Raizen calls starting next quarter.

值得一提的是，對於你的問題，這項改變是在與殼牌合作夥伴的共同協議下進行的。這是我最後一次以科桑的身份與你通電話。從現在開始，我將在下個季度開始的 Raizen 電話會議上與您見面。

Excellent. If I may ask a follow-up question. What do you consider peripheral activities and E2G. It has been a major investment made by Raizen with the potential returns and benefits, but it has required a lot of capital. Where does it fit in that focus on your core business?

出色的。我可以問一個後續問題嗎？您如何看待外圍活動和E2G。這是Raizen的一項重大投資，具有潛在的回報和效益，但需要大量的資金。它適合您對核心業務的關注嗎？

E2G is part of core like sugar and ethanol. So right now, we have two plants in operation, [CoPi] and Bonfim. [CoPi] was the first one. Bonfim has been operating for almost 12 months. We have two plants that will be commissioned starting this week and two plants that are under construction.

E2G與糖和乙醇一樣是核心的一部分。目前，我們有兩家工廠正在運作：[CoPi] 和 Bonfim。 [CoPi] 是第一個。Bonfim 已營運近 12 個月。我們有兩家工廠將於本週開始投產，還有兩家工廠正在興建中。

At some point, we will rediscuss and reassess E2G. But plants under commissioning today, (inaudible); and those under construction, Gasa and Vale do Rosario will be concluded. And as I said, my work there will be to make all those investments made in the past few years, which includes, obviously, E2G.

在某個時候，我們將重新討論和重新評估 E2G。但工廠今天正在調試中（聽不清楚）；正在建設的Gasa 和Vale do Rosario 也將竣工。正如我所說，我在那裡的工作將是進行過去幾年的所有投資，其中顯然包括 E2G。

Well, we have to make sure that those returns will go back to shareholders. Right now, no decision has been made about the continuity of E2G expansion. It is now time to conclude those two plants that are under commissioning to operate well to conclude those that are under construction within the deadline and within budget and then assess a possible decision for other plants or not.

好吧，我們必須確保這些回報將回饋給股東。目前，尚未就 E2G 擴展的連續性做出任何決定。現在是時候結束那些正在調試中運作良好的兩個工廠，並在最後期限和預算範圍內結束那些正在建設中的工廠，然後評估是否對其他工廠做出可能的決定。

Thiago Duarte, BTG.

蒂亞戈·杜阿爾特，BTG。

I would like to discuss the debt service coverage ratio. When we look at the dividend sources in the past 12 months, what is eye-catching is Compass with the capital reduction. Assuming that this type of event will not occur and imagining that the dividends from other operations will not be very different with the current levels of interest rates. It seems that, that ratio will drop even further in the future quarters.

我想討論一下償債覆蓋率。當我們檢視過去12個月的股利來源時，最引人注目的是減資的康帕思。假設此類事件不會發生，並想像其他業務的股息與當前利率水準不會有太大差異。看來，這一比例在未來幾季還將進一步下降。

So my question to you is, do you believe that this is a realistic scenario that I'm assuming? And what is the degree -- not discomfort, but what is the level of this coverage ratio that will generate more discomfort. There are different levers that have been discussed a few times in the calls.

所以我問你的問題是，你相信這是我假設的現實場景嗎？程度是多少——不是不適，而是會產生更多不適的覆蓋率水平是多少。在電話會議中已經多次討論了不同的槓桿。

The possibility to generate inventory turns, but to improve those numbers, I wanted to understand the debt service cover ratio that makes you more comfortable.

產生庫存週轉的可能性，但為了改善這些數字，我想了解讓您更舒適的償債覆蓋率。

Thank you for the question. I'll start to your first point about dividends and the increased dividends. At the end, you talked about the profile of our liability to match the duration of our debt with the CapEx cycle of the business. This is something we did over the year.

謝謝你的提問。我將從關於股息和增加股息的第一點開始。最後，您談到了我們的負債概況，以將債務期限與業務的資本支出週期相匹配。這是我們一年來所做的事情。

Over time, we expect the maturity of our business capacity increase and dividend payments as we had at [Compass] after a relevant CapEx cycle. But we know there is a limit for that to happen. Being quite pragmatic to your question, your vision is correct.

隨著時間的推移，我們預計我們的業務能力會增加並支付股息，就像我們在[Compass]經過相關資本支出週期後那樣。但我們知道這種情況的發生是有限的。對於你的問題非常務實，你的願景是正確的。

Our ratio is closer to the number this quarter, perhaps a little below. So your analysis is correct. Assuming that we are not going to take any measure, that point is important. Our focus in having speed, in having portfolio management of Cosan will be aligned with that.

我們的比率更接近本季的數字，也許略低一些。所以你的分析是正確的。假設我們不採取任何措施，這一點就很重要。我們對速度和 Cosan 投資組合管理的關注將與此保持一致。

We conducted the first phase, which was to adapt the profile that is a profile that will give us the necessary time for the maturity of portfolio management to take place. As you said, we had all the liability management for '24, '26, we will now do for '27 and then '28.

我們進行了第一階段，即調整配置文件，該配置文件將為我們提供必要的時間來實現投資組合管理的成熟。正如您所說，我們對 24 年、26 年進行了所有責任管理，現在我們將在 27 年和 28 年進行所有責任管理。

But you are correct, we have a sense of urgency that we need portfolio management to enter into a healthier level and an organic level, something we can carry without depending on extraordinary dividends of the businesses. The sense of urgency to us is clear, Thiago, more than a minimum.

但你是對的，我們有一種緊迫感，我們需要投資組合管理進入一個更健康的水平和有機的水平，這是我們可以在不依賴企業的非凡股息的情況下進行的。蒂亞戈，我們的緊迫感是顯而易見的，不僅僅是最低限度的。

I think the sense of urgency is already there. We look a lot more at the optimum level, as I said, between 1.5 and 2, is what we should look at as ideal more than thinking of a minimum. So I think the sense of urgency is clear on our side, and we are working on that.

我認為緊迫感已經存在。正如我所說，我們更關注最佳水平，在 1.5 和 2 之間，我們應該將其視為理想水平，而不是考慮最小值。所以我認為我們的緊迫感是明確的，我們正在努力解決這個問題。

Super clear, Rodrigo. And as far as what can be done with the portfolio, you are not pointing to any direction as yet?

超級清晰，羅德里戈。至於可以對投資組合做什麼，您還沒有指出任何方向嗎？

Well, you know that we've been working on options. Obviously, some of the businesses where we have a greater stake, we have more flexibility to do portfolio management, maintaining control and capturing a relevant part of the upside.

嗯，你知道我們一直在研究選擇。顯然，在我們擁有更多股份的一些業務中，我們可以更靈活地進行投資組合管理、保持控制並獲得相關的上漲空間。

Marcelo alluded to this recently. One of our priorities, Thiago, is to do that without jeopardizing the quality of the final portfolio. So to look at a portfolio mix that after management will be okay, this is relevant. The sense of urgency is there.

馬塞洛最近提到了這一點。蒂亞戈，我們的首要任務之一是在不損害最終作品集品質的情況下做到這一點。因此，要看看管理狀況良好後的投資組合組合，這是相關的。緊迫感是存在的。

We have alternatives. We have different alternatives on the table. But we don't want to adopt something that will make the quality of our portfolio worse.

我們還有其他選擇。我們有不同的選擇。但我們不想採用一些會讓我們的投資組合品質變差的東西。

Our next question, UBS.

我們的下一個問題，瑞銀。

My first question is more conceptual. I apologize if it's way too philosophical. What does it mean to be in the Cosan Group for subsidiaries? And how does Cosan contribute at the Board level only in practice?

我的第一個問題更加概念化。如果這太哲學化了，我深感抱歉。對於子公司來說，加入 Cosan 集團意味著什麼？Cosan 在實務上如何在董事會層級做出貢獻？

What does it mean when you say that you support the growth agenda of your businesses and to see how Cosan monitors projects, results, the strategy of subsidiaries or if part of Nelson's scope so far was to monitor the CEOs of subsidiaries or the structure within Cosan that is responsible for that monitoring more process and flow?

當您說支持企業的成長議程並了解 Cosan 如何監控專案、結果、子公司的策略，或到目前為止 Nelson 的職責範圍是否包括監控子公司的執行長或 Cosan 內部的結構時，這意味著什麼負責監控更多流程和流程？

Matheus, this is Nelson. I'll try and answer. This is part of our daily life. What does it mean for a company to be part of Cosan's portfolio? Well, access to a management model, a culture and a way of doing business that we still believe is irreplicable in the market.

馬修斯，這是納爾遜。我會嘗試回答。這是我們日常生活的一部分。對於一家公司來說，成為 Cosan 投資組合的一部分意味著什麼？好吧，我們仍然相信在市場上無法複製的管理模式、文化和經營方式。

We had more successes than failures assessing the last few years, and we will keep on looking for more successes than failures moving forward. So challenges will always exist. I think my role so far at Cosan and Marcelo moving forward is not to demand the subsidiaries, but to be close to them, to build together and to look for opportunities to unlock value as we did with most of our portfolio so far.

評估過去幾年，我們的成功多於失敗，未來我們將繼續尋求更多的成功，而不是失敗。所以挑戰永遠存在。我認為，到目前為止，我在Cosan 和Marcelo 的角色並不是要求子公司，而是與它們保持密切聯繫，共同建立並尋找釋放價值的機會，就像我們迄今為止對大多數投資組合所做的那樣。

If we look at our track record of all assets that we acquired over time, the vast majority, we significantly unlocked value, which allowed us to follow this trajectory of acquisition over the past 15 or 16 years ever since I joined the group. So that's what it means.

如果我們看看我們隨著時間的推移收購的所有資產的記錄，絕大多數資產都顯著釋放了價值，這使我們能夠在我加入該集團後的過去15 或16 年裡遵循這一收購軌跡。這就是它的意思。

But to me, most importantly, my first answer to be part of a management model, a culture, a way of doing business that unlocks value to shareholders.

但對我來說，最重要的是，我的第一個答案是成為管理模式、文化、為股東釋放價值的經營方式的一部分。

If I may ask a follow-up question. How did you come to the conclusion that perhaps Raizen needed change. Just to understand how that decision was made, how that discussion took place, the timing. I'm sorry, the question is perhaps way too philosophical. I just wanted to understand the thought process?

我可以問一個後續問題嗎？你是如何得出 Raizen 也許需要改變的結論的？只是為了了解這個決定是如何做出的，討論是如何進行的，時間安排。抱歉，這個問題可能太哲學化了。我只是想了解思考過程？

Matheus, there is no right or wrong to that question. But over the past few months, what we noticed, as I said when I answered Isa's question, always analyzing with our partner, Shell. We felt a need to adjust the course.

馬修斯，這個問題沒有對錯。但在過去的幾個月裡，我們注意到，正如我在回答 Isa 的問題時所說的那樣，總是與我們的伴侶殼牌一起分析。我們覺得有必要調整路線。

And once we came to the conclusion it was necessary, we made that decision swiftly and effectively making the necessary changes in common agreement with the two shareholders. It is a natural assessment, and we do it continuously with all our businesses. And with Raizen, it was time to change at the end of a cycle, but we deemed necessary to make a quick change because the shareholders felt the need to make that change.

一旦我們得出有必要的結論，我們就迅速有效地做出了決定，並在與兩位股東達成一致的情況下做出了必要的改變。這是一種自然的評估，我們對所有業務都持續這樣做。對於 Raizen，是在週期結束時進行改變的時候了，但我們認為有必要進行快速改變，因為股東認為有必要進行這種改變。

Monique Greco, Itau.

莫妮克·格雷科，伊塔烏。

I'll ask two. One about Vale. If you can share with us an update about the investment in the company, the main expectations about the performance of that investment in the near future. The other question is about Moove and Compass.

我就問兩個一篇是關於淡水河谷的。如果您能與我們分享有關該公司投資的最新情況，以及對該投資近期業績的主要預期。另一個問題是關於Moove和Compass的。

How are you reconsidering the possibility for an IPO of those businesses considering the challenging market context. What are the alternatives that are on the table today for future transactions for Moove and Compass?

考慮到充滿挑戰的市場環境，您如何重新考慮這些企業首次公開發行的可能性？對於 Moove 和 Compass 的未來交易，目前有哪些替代方案？

Good morning Monique, thank you for the questions. I'll start with Vale and then Nelson can chime in. As for Vale, we had some important moves recently of successful succession process, the beginning of a management focused on some points we consider to be important to unlock and generate value at Vale.

早安，莫妮克，謝謝你的提問。我將從淡水河谷開始，然後尼爾森可以插話。至於淡水河谷，我們最近在成功的繼任過程中採取了一些重要舉措，管理層的開始重點關注我們認為對淡水河谷釋放和創造價值很重要的一些要點。

So we believe we can create value in that process, and we see events that we consider to be important to unlock value in the company. Obviously, we monitor the macro scenario, what will happen or is happening in China. That's also an important indicator for us to monitor over time.

因此，我們相信我們可以在這個過程中創造價值，我們看到了我們認為對釋放公司價值很重要的事件。顯然，我們關注宏觀形勢，即中國將要發生或正在發生的事情。這也是我們長期監控的重要指標。

But there is no change about our perception. It's always important to reinforce that the asset is liquid. We are happy with what we have been able to deliver in terms of value creation, but the asset is liquid. It's something that we monitor constantly. So that's the current status.

但我們的看法並沒有改變。強調資產具有流動性始終很重要。我們對我們在價值創造方面所取得的成果感到滿意，但資產是流動性的。這是我們不斷監控的事情。這就是目前的狀態。

Monique, as to move and Compass, for different reasons and different times, we decided not to move on with the IPO. This decision is never easy, but in the case of Compass in 2021, when we made the decision not to go ahead. At the end, it was the right decision because we ended up having two rounds of private placement that brought a greater valuation of the company.

Monique，至於移動和Compass，由於不同的原因和不同的時間，我們決定不再繼續IPO。這個決定從來都不是一件容易的事，但就 2021 年的 Compass 而言，我們決定不再繼續。最後，這是正確的決定，因為我們最終進行了兩輪私募，為公司帶來了更高的估值。

That's why we decided not to follow with the IPO. In the case of Moove, besides the deterioration of the domestic scenario by foreign investors, the quality of the book didn't please us. It was short term. And therefore, because of those two reasons, we decided not to move ahead, which doesn't mean to say that over the next months and years, we will not have an opportunity of liquidity like private placement.

這就是為什麼我們決定不進行首次公開發行。就Moove而言，除了外國投資者導致國內情況惡化之外，這本書的品質也不令我們滿意。這是短期的。因此，由於這兩個原因，我們決定不再繼續推進，但這並不意味著在接下來的幾個月和幾年裡，我們不會有像私募這樣的流動性機會。

We don't rule out private placement opportunities with Compass or Moove. On the other hand, it has to be at the right valuation for us to go ahead with that. Our specificity at Moove is that we clearly noticed CVC's desire, our partner to exit.

我們不排除透過 Compass 或 Moove 進行私募的機會。另一方面，我們必須有正確的估值才能繼續這樣做。Moove 的特殊性在於，我們清楚地註意到我們的合作夥伴 CVC 想要退出的願望。

There is no hurry in that regard because the business is performing very well. But at some point, [should I say], my wish to exit. We will be looking for liquidity events for both companies, but at the right valuation.

在這方面並不著急，因為業務表現非常好。但在某個時候，[我應該說]，我希望退出。我們將為兩家公司尋找流動性事件，但估值合適。

Bruno, Goldman.

布魯諾、戈德曼.

I have a follow-up question to Rodrigo's comment, on your debt reprofiling. You're issuing debt at attractive costs. Can you comment on those conversations with investors, debt investors? I ask that because the equity market seems to [pressify] a certain level of stress.

我對羅德里戈關於債務重新分析的評論有一個後續問題。您正在以極具吸引力的成本發行債務。能否評論一下與投資者、債務投資者的對話？我這麼問是因為股市似乎[施加]某種程度的壓力。

What has been the feedback of your investors in the issuance of debt because the debt market seems to be more concerned than the equity market with the current situation of the company. Could you make a comment on that?

你們的投資人對發行債券有何回饋，因為債券市場似乎比股票市場更關心公司目前的狀況。你能否對此發表評論？

Bruno. Thank you for the question. Overall, what we're seeing clearly is a different behavior of the debt market versus the equity market. Not only due to resources flow, we have a large flow of resources in the market being directed to the credit market in Brazil, but also because of higher interest rates.

布魯諾.謝謝你的提問。整體而言，我們清楚地看到債務市場與股票市場的不同行為。不僅是因為資源的流動，我們市場上有大量的資源流向了巴西的信貸市場，也因為利率較高。

So that's constructive. We always look at that. We analyze comparable costs in reals, in BRL, and we see the local market, today more interest in the international market at different times. So overall, that's it, as for operations.

所以這是有建設性的。我們總是關注這一點。我們分析了以雷亞爾為單位的可比成本，我們看到本地市場在不同時期對國際市場的興趣更大。總的來說，就操作而言，就是這樣。

We conducted two operations of reasonable size recently and we see an ability to execute operations. We are focused on liability management. So there is an allocation rotation in credit as well, but we haven't seen any type of restriction. We've been very successful in executing our operations.

我們最近進行了兩次合理規模的行動，我們看到了執行行動的能力。我們專注於責任管理。因此信貸也存在分配輪換，但我們沒有看到任何類型的限制。我們的營運非常成功。

Falanga, Bradesco.

法蘭加、布拉德斯科。

My first question goes to Rodrigo. I wish to know if the US election somehow affected your liability management for 2027 that you were working on.

我的第一個問題是問羅德里戈的。我想知道美國大選是否以某種方式影響了您正在進行的 2027 年負債管理。

My second question, I should have asked it at Compass, but Congressman, Laercio, has worked intensely to approve gas release. I wanted to understand how you see that opportunity of a gas release to Edge should it be approved?

我的第二個問題，我應該在指南針上問，但國會議員拉爾西奧一直在努力批准天然氣釋放。我想了解如果獲得批准，您如何看待向 Edge 釋放氣體的機會？

Thank you for the question. I'll start with the first and Nelson will talk about Compass. About the US elections affecting liability management, we didn't see that, not only because of the US election, but because of a number of factors. The year was very volatile in the interest rates in the US.

謝謝你的提問。我將從第一個開始，尼爾森將談論指南針。關於美國大選對負債管理的影響，我們沒有看到這一點，不僅是因為美國大選，還有很多因素。這一年美國的利率非常波動。

Going back to what we did from the very beginning of the year, the issuance we made in January was treasury 10 years at 4.10%; three weeks after, the 10-year treasury was 4.72%; two weeks after, it was 3.80%; and now it's 4.50%.

回到我們年初所做的事情，我們一月份發行的是10年期公債，利率為4.10%；三週後，10年期公債利率為4.72%；兩週後，為3.80%；現在是 4.50%。

So it was volatile, not only because of the US election, it was volatile this year in the US market overall, but the operation we conducted, we were looking at comparable costs, and the impact of the US election was null. Before the operation, we already saw lower cost to conduct the operation in the domestic market, and that didn't change. So there was no direct impact of the US elections. (inaudible) to gas release.

所以說它是波動的，不只是因為美國大選，今年美國市場整體波動，而是我們進行的操作，我們考慮的是可比成本，美國大選的影響是零。在營運之前，我們已經看到在國內市場開展營運的成本較低，這一點沒有改變。所以美國大選沒有直接影響。 （聽不清楚）氣體釋放。

We always advocated the major lock for the price of gas to be more competitive in Brazil was the absence of supply through our work since Compagas was to generate opportunity so that we can have more gas supply to Brazil. And gas release is nothing but a generation source to supply gas to the country. T

我們一直主張巴西天然氣價格更具競爭力的主要障礙是透過我們的工作缺乏供應，因為 Compagas 旨在創造機會，以便我們可以向巴西提供更多天然氣供應。而天然氣的釋放只不過是向國家供應天然氣的發電來源。時間

his makes the market move. This will have more gas available in the market and availability will make gas more competitive. So that type of initiative on the part of the government or the Congress has our support.

他使市場發生變化。這將使市場上有更多的天然氣可用，並且可用性將使天然氣更具競爭力。因此，政府或國會的此類舉措得到了我們的支持。

It is in the right direction for a more open and competitive gas market and more abundant supply. So it does have our support.

天然氣市場更加開放、競爭更加激烈，供應更加充足，這是正確的方向。所以它確實得到了我們的支持。

(inaudible) XP.

（聽不清楚）XP。

I joined the call a little late. I apologize if that question was already asked. Nelson and Rodrigo, what was the motivation to change the management team. And Nelson, what type of strategic change do you believe would be necessary at Raizen?

我加入通話的時間有點晚了。如果這個問題已經被問過，我深感抱歉。尼爾森和羅德里戈，改變管理團隊的動機是什麼。Nelson，您認為 Raizen 需要進行哪種類型的策略變革？

This is Nelson. Thank you for the question. That was the first question of the call asked by Isa. I'll try and summarize the answer, but if you want to follow up with our team, we can clarify that. But the motivation comes from a need identified to adjust the route in one of our companies, which is Raizen.

這是納爾遜。謝謝你的提問。這是艾薩打電話時提出的第一個問題。我會嘗試總結答案，但如果您想跟進我們的團隊，我們可以澄清這一點。但其動機來自於我們一家公司（Raizen）調整路線的需求。

And when we identify the need to adjust the course, we analyze our resources available, and we allocate it to Raizen what we imagine had the best fit at the moment. I emphasized in my answer to Isa that this was a decision made between the two partners, the shareholders, Cosan and Shell.

當我們確定需要調整路線時，我們會分析可用資源，並將其分配給 Raizen 我們認為目前最適合的資源。我在給 Isa 的答覆中強調，這是股東 Cosan 和殼牌這兩個夥伴之間所做的決定。

And once that decision was made, we implemented that swiftly. So in a nutshell, this is what I answered. There were some questions along those lines.

一旦做出決定，我們就迅速實施。簡而言之，這就是我的回答。沿著這些思路有一些問題。

The Q&A session has been concluded. I turn it over to Nelson Gomes for his final thoughts.

問答環節至此結束。我將其轉交給納爾遜·戈麥斯，聽聽他的最後想法。

As I said at the beginning of our Q&A session, this is my last call as Cosan. I want to thank you all for the constructive relationship we've had, all our debates and conversations over 2024, while I was a head of Cosan.

正如我在問答環節開始時所說，這是我作為科桑的最後一次通話。我要感謝大家在我擔任 Cosan 負責人期間與我們建立的建設性關係以及我們在 2024 年進行的所有辯論和對話。

I wish to thank our internal team that helped us build this new way of working with the market over the year, the whole team of our businesses that contributed for us to truly have a Q&A focused on each business. So the beginning of the earnings calls that helped us clarify our gas business.

我要感謝我們的內部團隊在這一年裡幫助我們建立了這種與市場合作的新方式，感謝我們整個業務團隊為我們真正針對每項業務進行問答做出了貢獻。因此，財報電話會議的開始幫助我們澄清了我們的天然氣業務。

So it was a continuous evolution over the years. So I have to thank all of you listening to us, all of you with me in this journey. I also -- since Marcelo Martins just entered the room, I wish Marcelo all the success. I want to thank Marcelo for the time at the Board at Raizen where we made tough, but right decisions.

所以這是多年來不斷演變的。因此，我必須感謝所有聆聽我們演講的人，以及在這段旅程中與我同在的所有人。我也——自從馬塞洛·馬丁斯剛進入房間以來，我祝馬塞洛一切順利。我要感謝 Marcelo 在 Raizen 董事會任職期間我們做出了艱難但正確的決定。

And again, I wish Marcelo and the team success in this new phase at Cosan. And I'll see you at the next call across the bridge at Raizen. Marcelo, over to you.

我再次祝福馬塞洛和他的團隊在科桑的新階段取得成功。下次我們過橋到雷森時見。馬塞洛，交給你了。

Thank you, Nelson. We all know each other. I want to thank Nelson for this enormous contribution he made to the group as CEO of Cosan. As you know, Nelson has been with us for nearly 16 years. He did an outstanding job. He gave very important contributions to the company during that period.

謝謝你，納爾遜。我們都認識彼此。我要感謝 Nelson 作為 Cosan 執行長為集團做出的巨大貢獻。如你所知，Nelson 已經在我們身邊工作了近 16 年。他做得非常出色。在此期間他為公司做出了非常重要的貢獻。

And I think he is taking on a significant challenge in the group, which is the CEO of Raizen. He was undoubtedly the right person for that. All the moves were a consequence of the decision to place him there because we believe that he not only knows the group, but Raizen at depth.

我認為他正在接受團隊中的一項重大挑戰，即 Raizen 的執行長。毫無疑問，他是合適的人選。所有的舉動都是決定把他放在那裡的結果，因為我們相信他不僅了解這個團隊，而且了解 Raizen 的深度。

He knows exactly what needs to be done. He is incredibly talented at forming teams. He's taking part of the team with him. He can make not only important strategic changes at Raizen, but Nelson has proven to be a major leader and cultural influencers in the companies he was a head of, and he will do the same reason at Raizen.

他清楚地知道需要做什麼。他在組建團隊方面非常有天賦。他正在和他一起加入球隊。他不僅可以在 Raizen 做出重要的策略變革，而且 Nelson 已被證明是他所領導的公司中的主要領導者和文化影響者，他也將在 Raizen 做同樣的事情。

I want to thank him for his contribution so far. I wish him luck I'll be with him in this journey with Raizen. And we will continue in our communications as of next quarter. Thank you.

我要感謝他迄今為止所做的貢獻。我祝他好運，在這次與 Raizen 的旅程中我會和他在一起。從下個季度開始，我們將繼續進行溝通。謝謝。

This Q3 earnings call for Cosan is over. Our department for Investor Relations is available to take questions. Have an excellent day.

Cosan 的第三季財報電話會議已經結束。我們的投資者關係部門可以回答問題。祝你有美好的一天。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本筆錄中的英語陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員說出的。口譯員由贊助本次活動的公司提供。