Cosan SA (CSAN) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to Cosan's first quarter 2025 earnings release conference call. (Operator Instructions). The video conference is being recorded and will be available on the company's IR website at cosan.com.br.

大家早安，謝謝大家的等待。歡迎參加 Cosan 2025 年第一季財報發布電話會議。（操作員指令）。視訊會議正在錄製並將在公司 IR 網站 cosan.com.br 上發布。

(Operator Instructions) Please note that the information contained in this presentation and in statements that may be made during the conference call regarding Cosan's business prospects, projections and operating and financial goals constitute the beliefs and assumptions of the company's management as well as information currently available.

（操作員指示）請注意，本簡報中包含的資訊以及電話會議期間可能就 Cosan 的業務前景、預測以及營運和財務目標所作的陳述構成了公司管理層的信念和假設以及當前可用的資訊。

Forward-looking considerations are not a guarantee of performance. They involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not materialize.

前瞻性的考慮並不能保證業績。由於它們涉及未來事件，因此涉及風險、不確定性和假設，取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。

Investors should bear in mind that overall economic circumstances, market conditions and other operating factors may affect Cosan's future performance and lead to results that differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements. I will now turn it over to Mr. Rodrigo Araujo.

投資人應牢記，整體經濟狀況、市場條件和其他經營因素可能會影響 Cosan 的未來業績，並導致與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。現在我將把發言權交給羅德里戈·阿勞霍先生。

Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining our earnings call for the first quarter of 2025. Going through our usual disclaimers here. So for our next slide, we start with the highlights for the quarter. We had a quarter with around BRL5 billion of EBITDA under management. It's the first quarter that after the divestment of the Vale's stake that we have. So these results are excluding the results of Vale for 2025.

大家好。感謝您參加我們 2025 年第一季的財報電話會議。在此查看我們通常的免責聲明。因此，在下一張幻燈片中，我們將從本季的亮點開始。我們管理的季度息稅折舊攤提前利潤 (EBITDA) 約為 50 億巴西雷亞爾。這是我們剝離淡水河谷股份後的第一個季度。因此這些結果不包括淡水河谷 2025 年的表現。

We also had a net loss of BRL1.8 billion. This quarter was marked also by a relevant reduction in our net debt, mainly coming from the divestment of the Vale's stake in the beginning of January this year, so closing the quarter with BRL17.5 billion of net debt.

我們還淨虧損18億巴西雷亞爾。本季我們的淨債務也相應減少，主要由於今年 1 月初淡水河谷的股權出售，因此本季末的淨債務為 175 億巴西雷亞爾。

In terms of dividends received, we had relevant dividends coming from Compass in the form of capital reduction. So we had a relevant shareholder distribution from Compass, just reinforcing the thesis of very strong cash generator and a company that's able to navigate its growth cycle while distributing relevantly part of its results to its shareholders.

在收到的股息方面，我們從Compass以減資的形式獲得了相關股息。因此，我們從 Compass 獲得了相關的股東分配，這只是強化了非常強大的現金產生器的論點，以及一家能夠駕馭其成長週期，同時將其部分業績分配給股東的公司。

In terms of our interest coverage ratio, we had 1.2x this quarter, and it's, of course, positively affected by the distribution coming from Compass, so this also -- it's a relevant impact in the first quarter of '25. And also, in terms of our LTIF and the safety ratings. We continue our safety journey. And of course, we have the safety -- we have safety as a non-negotiable value in the portfolio.

就我們的利息覆蓋率而言，本季為 1.2 倍，當然，這受到了來自 Compass 的分配的正面影響，因此這也是 25 年第一季的相關影響。此外，就我們的 LTIF 和安全評級而言。我們繼續我們的安全之旅。當然，我們的安全－我們的投資組合中安全是不可協商的價值。

Unfortunately, we have fatalities in the operating companies in this quarter, but we continue to be very diligent and strongly committed to having zero accidents in the portfolio and to have the highest safety standards in our operations.

不幸的是，本季度我們的營運公司發生了人員死亡事故，但我們將繼續非常勤勉地努力，堅定地致力於實現投資組合中的零事故，並在我們的營運中採用最高的安全標準。

So going to the next slide, looking a little bit more into the operational performance of the operating companies. We had a quarter of lower volumes at Rumo. Of course, that was mainly impacted by a certain delay in the crop season. So we expect -- we continue to be constructive in terms of the company meeting its guidance for the year, but it's going to be a year that will be more concentrated towards the second half of the year.

請看下一張投影片，進一步了解營運公司的營運績效。Rumo 的銷量下降了四分之一。當然，這主要受到農作物季節一定延遲的影響。因此，我們預計——我們將繼續對公司實現今年的預期持建設性態度，但今年的重點將更多地放在下半年。

And of course, the operational efficiency and the ability to execute almost operation will be quite relevant for the next coming quarters, so that we are able to meet the guidance for the year. But it's also relevant to highlight that we had an increase in the average tariff for Rumo, which reinforces our understanding that the competitiveness of the railway in terms of the logistics solution to grain exports in Brazil continue to be quite relevant.

當然，營運效率和執行幾乎所有營運的能力對於接下來的幾季至關重要，這樣我們才能達到今年的預期。但值得強調的是，我們提高了魯莫的平均關稅，這加強了我們的理解，即鐵路在巴西糧食出口物流解決方案方面的競爭力仍然非常重要。

In Compass, we had the quarter with an increase in natural gas volumes. So it is, of course -- it's part of the strategy. Remember that we had the acquisition of Compagas well. So we continue to have an increase in distributor volumes. It's also relevant to highlight the fact that we had better margins this quarter coming from a better mix from the residential segment, mainly the increase of residential sales inside of Sao Paulo.

在 Compass，本季我們的天然氣產量有所增加。當然，這是戰略的一部分。請記住，我們已經成功收購了 Compagas。因此我們的分銷商數量持續增加。值得強調的是，本季我們的利潤率更高，這得益於住宅領域的更好組合，主要是聖保羅住宅銷售額的成長。

And also, it's relevant to highlight what's -- the deployment of the strategy of EDGE, our marketing and services company. We continue to not only access the non-regulated gas market in Brazil, where we're able to directly assess the industrial consumers and increased our footprint in that market, but also the optimization of LNG cargoes that we are basically using the Regas terminal to do arbitrage operations in the LNG market, which is an important part of the thesis and the strategy that's showing to be quite successful in Compass.

此外，強調我們的行銷和服務公司 EDGE 的策略部署也很重要。我們不僅繼續進入巴西的非管制天然氣市場，在那裡我們能夠直接評估工業消費者並擴大我們在該市場的影響力，而且還優化液化天然氣貨物，我們基本上使用 Regas 終端在液化天然氣市場進行套利操作，這是論文的重要組成部分，也是在 Compass 中顯示出相當成功的戰略。

In Moove, the quarter was significantly impacted by the fire that we had in the Rio de Janeiro Industrial Complex in February. The company is strongly focused on getting back to its operational results and finding alternative production solutions to deliver the volumes and the expected results. But of course, the first quarter was significantly impacted by the fire that happened in February.

在 Moove，本季受到了 2 月裡約熱內盧工業園區火災的嚴重影響。該公司高度重視恢復營運成果並尋找替代的生產解決方案以實現產量和預期結果。但當然，第一季受到了二月火災的嚴重影響。

In Radar, we had not only an increase in its EBITDA coming from the lease agreement but also, we had a sale of land in the first quarter, and it's relevant to highlight that we continue to sell part of the portfolio, and we continue to be able to deliver the transactions above the land appraisal. So basically, we reinforce the value of the portfolio through the sales that are already on going.

在雷達方面，我們不僅有租賃協議的 EBITDA 成長，而且我們在第一季度還出售了土地，值得強調的是，我們繼續出售部分投資組合，並且我們繼續能夠以高於土地評估的價格完成交易。因此，基本上，我們透過正在進行的銷售來強化投資組合的價值。

And finally, Raizen had a tough quarter in terms of volumes, mainly in the sugar operations and also lower results in terms of trading as well in this quarter, impacting negatively the quarterly results.

最後，Raizen 本季在銷售方面表現艱難，主要是在糖業務方面，而且本季的交易業績也較低，對季度業績產生了負面影響。

Moving on to liability management. We had a very active quarter, mostly coming from the divestment from the Vale's stake. So overall, this quarter, we raised somewhere around BRL11.5 billion, apart from the divestment of the Vale's stake in part from the debenture that we issued in the Brazilian capital market as well.

繼續進行負債管理。本季我們的業務非常活躍，主要得益於淡水河谷股份的剝離。因此，本季總體而言，除了從淡水河谷部分股權中剝離，我們還從我們在巴西資本市場發行的債券中籌集了約 115 億巴西雷亞爾。

And the use of proceeds were mainly to fully take out the 27 bonds that were outstanding, and we also partially redeemed the 29, 30 and 31s. We have also fully redeemed the first series of debentures in Brazil and also partially redeemed the fifth and sixth series of debentures in Brazil. So this was a very active quarter in terms of liability management.

募集資金用途主要為全額贖回未償還的27只債券，並部分贖回了29只、30只和31只債券。我們也全部贖回了巴西第一系列債券，並部分贖回了巴西第五系列和第六系列債券。因此，就負債管理而言，這是一個非常活躍的季度。

I think it's relevant to highlight that we were able to do that reducing cost and improving the maturity of the debt profile as well. So this was also quite -- it's also quite relevant to highlight.

我認為值得強調的是，我們能夠做到這一點，同時降低成本並改善債務狀況。所以這也是相當──值得強調的。

In our next slide, we see that we had -- we ended up the quarter with BRL21.7 billion of gross debt, which translated into BRL17.5 billion net debt. You can see that we're carrying liquidity. And of course, in this uncertain times that we see with a lot of market volatility, it's relevant to have additional liquidity.

在下一張幻燈片中，我們看到——本季我們的總債務為 217 億巴西雷亞爾，淨債務為 175 億巴西雷亞爾。您可以看到我們擁有流動性。當然，在市場波動很大的不確定時期，擁有額外的流動性是很重要的。

As I've highlighted before, our interest coverage is 1.2x for the quarter, a little bit higher than last quarter, but it was affected by the distribution that came from Compass this quarter. So it's important to highlight that we had additional dividends coming from Compass impacting this number.

正如我之前強調的那樣，本季度我們的利息覆蓋率為 1.2 倍，略高於上一季度，但受到了本季度來自 Compass 的分配的影響。因此，需要強調的是，來自 Compass 的額外股息影響了這個數字。

In terms of the amortization schedule, on the lower part of the chart, you can see that we have no amortizations until '28. And of course, we did a lot of liability management on other parts of the curve. So we finished with an average duration of 6.4 years and an average cost that came down from CDI+ 1.4% to CDI+ 91 bps (sic - see slide 5, CDI+0.91%).

就攤銷計劃而言，在圖表的下部，您可以看到我們直到 28 年才進行攤銷。當然，我們在曲線的其他部分做了很多責任管理。因此，我們最終的平均期限為 6.4 年，平均成本從 CDI+ 1.4% 降至 CDI+ 91 個基點（原文如此 - 參見投影片 5，CDI+0.91%）。

So next slide, we look at the cash flows for the quarter. Of course, the most relevant figure here is the divestment from the Vale's stake, as I've mentioned. We also had raised additional debentures in the domestic market.

下一張投影片，我們來看看本季的現金流。當然，正如我所提到的，這裡最相關的數字是淡水河谷股份的剝離。我們也在國內市場籌集了額外的債券。

And the use of those proceeds were mainly to pay down debt and also to redeem part of the non-controlled interest of the preferred shares that we had in the Cosan Nove, the company that has the stake in Raizen. So we partially redeemed the preferred shares in Cosan Nove as part of our capital structure strategy.

這些收益主要用於償還債務，以及贖回我們在 Cosan Nove（持有 Raizen 股份的公司）所持有的部分優先股非控制權益。因此，作為資本結構策略的一部分，我們部分贖回了 Cosan Nove 的優先股。

So this is a little bit of what we had for the quarter. Thank you once again for joining us. And please, let's move on to our Q&A session. Thank you.

這是我們本季的一些情況。再次感謝您的參與。請容許我們進入問答環節。謝謝。

We will begin our Q&A session with Mr. Marcelo Martins, Mr. Rodrigo Araujo, and Mr. Fernando Tanal. (Operator Instructions)

我們將與 Marcelo Martins 先生、Rodrigo Araujo 先生和 Fernando Tanal 先生開始問答環節。（操作員指示）

Gabriel Barra, Citibank.

花旗銀行的加布里埃爾·巴拉 (Gabriel Barra)。

I have a couple of questions, please. The first one is about the capital structure and short-term divestments. Obviously, that is the main topic at the company that migration of the debt value to equity. And maybe considering lower interest rates, maybe there are a lot of questions about that.

我有幾個問題請問。第一個是關於資本結構和短期撤資。顯然，債務價值向股權的轉移是公司目前的主要議題。也許考慮到較低的利率，也許對此有很多疑問。

So could you give us an update on the divestment process? And what we can expect in the short-term. What are the main elements we should be looking at this year?

那麼，您能否向我們介紹撤資過程的最新進展？以及我們短期內可以期待什麼。今年我們應該關注的主要因素是什麼？

Second question. Since Moove is one of the few companies that don't hold a conference call, I think it would be interesting to discuss their thesis. It's been a tougher quarter, as Rodrigo said, because of the fire. Could you talk about your strategy for Moove, first.

第二個問題。由於 Moove 是少數不舉行電話會議的公司之一，我認為討論他們的論點會很有趣。正如羅德里戈所說，由於火災，這是一個更艱難的季度。首先，您能談談您對 Moove 的策略嗎？

As far as I understand it, and this is something to be discussed, what should we be looking at? And what should be your priorities now that the plant is being rebuilt. Is it market share? Or is it margins? There's a supply issue that you need to address. So what kind of a time line are we talking about to solve that problem? So if you could give us a bit more color on Moove, that would be great.

據我了解，這是一個需要討論的事情，我們該關注什麼？現在工廠正在重建，您的首要任務是什麼？是市佔率嗎？還是利潤？您需要解決一個供應問題。那麼，我們討論的解決這個問題的時間表是怎麼樣的呢？因此，如果您能向我們詳細介紹 Moove，那就太好了。

Great. Thanks for the questions. I'll start with your second question about Moove and then we can talk about the capital structure. So after the fire, the company has been able to react quite quickly. And it's been impressive how fast it found alternatives.

偉大的。感謝您的提問。我將從您關於 Moove 的第二個問題開始，然後我們可以討論資本結構。因此火災發生後，該公司能夠相當迅速地做出反應。它找到替代方案的速度令人印象深刻。

You're absolutely right. The company is focusing a lot more on volumes than margin. The supply chain won't necessarily be the same in the future. It's much more to meet this -- meet our client needs. That is a focus. The company has the capacity mapped.

你完全正確。該公司更加重視銷量而非利潤。未來的供應鏈不一定會是一樣的。這不僅僅是為了滿足這一點——滿足我們的客戶需求。這是一個重點。該公司已繪製了產能圖。

It's a 100% in terms of alternatives. It is executing and taking all the required measures, whether it be through certifications for the clients or setting up plants. It is doing everything that is required in terms of facilities that will act as an alternative. That was already part of the company's plans to do some risk management and take away some operations from the Rio de Janeiro plant.

從替代方案來看，這是 100%。它正在執行並採取所有必要的措施，無論是透過客戶認證還是建立工廠。它正在盡一切努力提供替代設施。這已經是該公司進行風險管理和從裡約熱內盧工廠轉移部分業務計劃的一部分。

We acquired a Greece plant, and there was a plan to migrate that to outside the Rio de Janeiro plant, so that might happen a bit faster. Every month, I mean, this quarter, there was the fire, but April was better than March. There's a clear catch-up when it comes to results. The company is coming back. So that's where we are in terms of the operation.

我們收購了一家希臘工廠，並計劃將其遷移到裡約熱內盧工廠以外的地方，因此這可能會更快一些。我的意思是，每個月，這個季度，都有火災，但四月比三月好。從結果來看，雙方明顯處於追趕狀態。公司正在恢復營業。這就是我們的營運現狀。

The company does have an insurance strategy. There's a lot of discussions going on around insurance at the same time. These are longer discussions to be had, but they are happening at the same time. In terms of the future strategy, very little will change when it comes to the company's strategy. As you know, it's been focusing on an international rollout. Obviously, now the company focus is much more on what's happening now rather than any kind of rollout. It's delayed that slightly.

該公司確實有保險策略。同時，圍繞保險的討論也很多。這些討論需要更長的時間，但它們是同時發生的。就未來策略而言，公司的策略幾乎不會發生任何變化。如您所知，它一直專注於國際推廣。顯然，現在公司的重點更多地放在當前發生的事情上，而不是任何類型的推廣上。它稍微延遲了一點。

But obviously, in the short-term, the focus will be getting back to our capacity as soon as possible. In terms of the plant in Rio, at the end of this process, and obviously, there's a learning curve. Every month, we are discovering new things, seeing new things. So the future of the Rio de Janeiro plant in terms of setup will be completely different when it comes to fires. Part of the production that makes sense going somewhere else, will go somewhere else, the vacation of the Rio De Janeiro plant is for large-scale products.

但顯然，短期內我們的重點是盡快恢復產能。就裡約的工廠而言，在這個過程結束時，顯然有一個學習曲線。每個月，我們都在發現新事物，看到新事物。因此，就火災而言，裡約熱內盧工廠的未來設置將會完全不同。部分有意義的生產轉移到其他地方，將會轉移到其他地方，裡約熱內盧工廠的休假是為了生產大規模產品。

So this plant will tend to focus on large scale. Anything that is special or smaller will tend to migrate to other facilities. We still don't have a reconstruction process going on because, obviously, the company is looking at Moove's facilities. And they're looking at what will be migrating to outside the Rio de Janeiro, so that's it in broad terms.

因此該工廠將傾向於大規模生產。任何特殊或較小的事物都會傾向於遷移到其他設施。我們還沒有進行重建過程，因為顯然該公司正在關注 Moove 的設施。他們正在研究哪些人將遷往裡約熱內盧以外，所以廣義來說就是這樣。

About your first question in terms of the capital structure, there are lots of ongoing alternatives, nothing concrete to share right now, obviously. But in terms of a sense of urgency, nothing's changed. It's very clear to us that the divestment and the Vale divestment is part of what we need to do. It's very clear to us that we still have to raise funds and there are many alternatives to do that. It's a long journey. And at the end of this journey, we'll make sure that we don't land on a worse portfolio.

關於您關於資本結構的第一個問題，目前有很多正在進行的替代方案，但顯然目前沒有任何具體的東西可以分享。但就緊迫感而言，什麼都沒有改變。我們非常清楚，撤資以及淡水河谷的撤資是我們需要做的事情的一部分。我們很清楚，我們仍然需要籌集資金，而且還有很多其他方法可以做到這一點。這是一段漫長的旅程。在這段旅程結束時，我們將確保我們的投資組合不會變得更糟。

So we're being very careful coming up with alternatives. Obviously, we have plans A, B and C to make sure that we come out with a better capital structure. Obviously, we need to reduce leverage, but obviously, we don't want to do that and end up with the worst portfolio. So it's not a simple balance to strike. We need to do both things, but we are pragmatic enough to know that we have successful initiatives and those that aren't successful, we have other alternatives.

因此我們在提出替代方案時非常謹慎。顯然，我們有 A、B 和 C 計劃來確保我們擁有更好的資本結構。顯然，我們需要降低槓桿率，但顯然，我們不想這樣做，最終導致投資組合變得最糟糕。因此這並不是一個簡單的平衡問題。我們需要同時做這兩件事，但我們夠務實，知道我們有成功的舉措，而對於那些不成功的舉措，我們還有其他選擇。

So just to complement to what Rodrigo is saying. First of all, we are fully focused on adjusting Cosan's capital structure. Obviously, at the same time, we are monitoring closely the divestment initiatives at Raizen. And on our side, we are directly involved in seeking solutions that go beyond that divestment. And that's a key priority for us. So we have some ongoing initiatives and advanced discussions to be able to execute on them.

只是為了補充羅德里戈所說的話。首先，我們全力調整Cosan的資本結構。顯然，與此同時，我們正在密切關注 Raizen 的撤資舉措。而就我們而言，我們直接參與尋求超越撤資的解決方案。這對我們來說是一個首要任務。因此，我們有一些正在進行的計劃和深入的討論，以便能夠執行它們。

We won't go into detail because it will be speculation about a work-in-progress. But what I can guarantee is that we have made a lot of progress compared to a while back when we sold Vale. We have great alternatives in terms of execution, and we are very optimistic that we will be able to address that quickly.

我們不會談論細節，因為這只是對正在進行的工作的猜測。但我可以保證的是，與之前出售淡水河谷時相比，我們已經取得了很大進展。在執行方面，我們有很好的替代方案，我們非常樂觀地認為我們能夠迅速解決這個問題。

We have a clear strategy. We need to improve Cosan's capital structure. At the same time, we need to adjust Raizen's capital structure so that we can, as Rodrigo said, keep a well-balanced portfolio. And people might ask, oh, are you considering selling considerable stake at Compass or Rumo? No, we're not considering that. That would not be the best way forward for us. We are considering other options that go beyond that specific option. So I want to make that very clear. We are -- right now, we are executing things.

我們有一個明確的戰略。我們需要改善 Cosan 的資本結構。同時，我們需要調整Raizen的資本結構，以便我們能夠像Rodrigo所說的那樣，保持均衡的投資組合。人們可能會問，哦，您是否考慮出售 Compass 或 Rumo 的大量股份？不，我們沒有考慮這一點。對我們來說，這不是最好的前進方式。我們正在考慮超出該特定選項的其他選項。所以我想把這一點講清楚。我們正在執行一些事情。

Isabella Simonato, Bank of America.

伊莎貝拉·西蒙納托，美國銀行。

I have a couple. The first one, Marcelo, your strategy and your focus are very clear. And you mentioned Raizen, you said that you are monitoring what's going on there very closely. So I'd like to hear from you a bit more on how you see the company's recent performance and the operating prospects for fiscal year '26, which doesn't look like will be an easy year in terms of the circumstances in the sector. So as shareholders, how are you seeing Raizen's progress?

我有一對。第一個，馬塞洛，你的策略和重點非常明確。您提到了 Raizen，您說您正在密切監視那裡發生的事情。因此，我想進一步了解您如何看待公司近期的業績以及 26 財年的營運前景，從行業現狀來看，26 財年似乎不會是輕鬆的一年。那麼身為股東，您如何看待 Raizen 的進展？

And Rodrigo about the liability management, as you said, you have been very active. You've been working on changing the debt profile. Is that what we'll continue to see looking forward? And more specifically, about the remaining preferred shares, what can we expect from that structure?

關於羅德里戈的負債管理，正如你所說，你一直非常活躍。您一直在努力改變債務狀況。這就是我們未來將繼續看到的嗎？更具體地說，關於剩餘的優先股，我們對該結構有何期待？

Thanks for the question. Well, first of all, about Raizen. The good news about Raizen is the level of awareness and practical initiatives to make the required changes and the speed with which these changes are being implemented. They're being very realistic about the circumstances in this sector.

謝謝你的提問。嗯，首先，關於 Raizen。Raizen 的好消息是其意識水平和做出必要改變的實際舉措以及實施這些改變的速度。他們對該行業的現狀非常現實。

There was a shareholders' meeting with Shell in London this week. And so to us and to Shell, it's very clear that once this rebalancing stage is over in the capital structure, the company has not only excellent prospects, but it's very clear that they will be focusing on core business at high levels of efficiency and focusing on returns.

本週在倫敦舉行了殼牌股東會。因此，對於我們和殼牌來說，很明顯，一旦資本結構的重新平衡階段結束，公司不僅擁有良好的前景，而且很明顯他們將專注於高效的核心業務並專注於回報。

Obviously, we need to consider substantial divestments. Those divestments will also include energy, so reducing our crushing capacity and the portfolio's plants. There's also a high level of interest. Obviously, we're not talking about an umbrella mandate selling all the assets. That's not the case.

顯然，我們需要考慮大量撤資。這些資產剝離還將包括能源業務，從而減少我們的破碎能力和投資組合中的工廠。人們的興趣也很高。顯然，我們討論的並不是出售所有資產的整體授權。事實並非如此。

But in the execution strategy, there's a great structure and we're very clearly optimistic when it comes to the volume of divestments and the impact that will have on the company's deleveraging. That will not be the only solution. We are considering other alternatives. I won't go into any detail because it's all work-in-progress.

但在執行策略方面，我們有一個很好的結構，而且我們對撤資規模及其對公司去槓桿的影響非常樂觀。這不是唯一的解決辦法。我們正在考慮其他替代方案。我不會談論任何細節，因為這一切都還在進行中。

But as Raizen has stated during the earnings call, all options are on the table. So I can speak for myself and for Shell. We're very pragmatic, highly focused. So you'll be looking at the divestments, the energy assets as well as the distribution business and the shareholders' role will be to look at what's under our responsibility and capital structure of Raizen itself.

但正如 Raizen 在收益電話會議上所說，所有選擇都在考慮範圍內。因此我可以代表我自己和殼牌發言。我們非常務實，高度專注。因此，您將專注於資產剝離、能源資產以及分銷業務，股東的角色將是專注於我們的責任以及 Raizen 本身的資本結構。

Isa, to your second question, in terms of what we needed to do and using the proceeds from our divestment at Vale, we've done quite a lot. You saw that in the first quarter, obviously. Right now, there's more uncertainty and the divestment alternatives and other options in the capital structure. So we'll carry more liquidity.

伊薩，關於你的第二個問題，就我們需要做什麼以及使用從淡水河谷撤資所得的收益而言，我們已經做了很多。顯然，您在第一季就看到了這一點。目前，資本結構中存在更多不確定性以及撤資替代方案和其他選擇。因此我們將擁有更多的流動性。

But in terms of changing the debt profile, we'll always be looking at opportunities to access the market and to improve the structure. We're very cost sensitive. I'm sure you saw that we've been able to extend the duration and there have been some positive windows at the end of last year. There was a great spread window in the Brazilian market.

但在改變債務狀況方面，我們將始終尋找進入市場和改善結構的機會。我們對成本非常敏感。我相信您已經看到我們已經能夠延長期限，並且在去年年底已經出現了一些積極的跡象。巴西市場有一個很好的傳播窗口。

And this goes for Cosan. We are not just sitting and waiting. The company is very sensitive when it comes to numbers, but we're not counting on that.

這對科桑來說也是如此。我們不只是坐著等待。公司對數字非常敏感，但我們並不依賴這一點。

And about the preferred shares, it's something we are continuously monitoring. There are variabilities, whether it's going to pay out dividends or not. There is a differentiation in terms of fiscal losses. So we're monitoring the efficiency of the structure the whole time and obviously, we can address that at any time depending on the variability and fiscal issues.

關於優先股，我們一直持續關注。無論它是否派發股息，都存在變數。財政損失方面存在差異。因此，我們一直在監控結構的效率，顯然，我們可以根據變化性和財政問題隨時解決這個問題。

In terms of cost priority, it's not the first alternative, but we are looking at it. Thank you for the question.

從成本優先的角度來看，這不是首選，但我們正在考慮。謝謝你的提問。

Matheus.

馬修斯。

My first question is about the interest coverage ratio and its impact. What I have been seeing as a consensus, and according to our math, obviously, we could be wrong, but it sounds to me like in the second quarter, Cosan will be very close or below one-time in terms of interest coverage ratio given the concentration of dividends we had in the last quarter. And maybe, this ratio will only improve in '26 rather than in '25.

我的第一個問題是關於利息覆蓋率及其影響。我一直認為這是一種共識，根據我們的計算，顯然我們可能是錯的，但在我看來，在第二季度，考慮到我們上個季度的股息集中度，Cosan 的利息覆蓋率將非常接近或低於一次性。也許，這個比例在 26 年會比 25 年有所改善。

My question has to do with Barra's question in terms of sense of urgency. Will that trigger any covenants? Are you discussing anything like that? Is there a sense of urgency in the second quarter? So that's my first question. Will that be a trigger for the company?

我的問題與巴拉關於緊迫感的問題有關。這會觸發任何契約嗎？你們正在討論類似的事情嗎？第二季是否有一種緊迫感？這是我的第一個問題。這會成為公司的導火線嗎？

And the second question is also along the same lines, but about the cash need and the structure of the preferred shares. Compass's capital structure is clear. But considering the 25% of the Compass's dividends being paid out to preferred shareholders looking forward. And at Cosan Nove, if I got it right, there was a dividend payout of the preferred shares, but it wasn't followed up by a dividend paid out to the holding company.

第二個問題也與此類似，但涉及現金需求和優先股的結構。Compass的資本結構清晰。但考慮到Compass未來將向優先股股東派發25%的股利。如果我沒記錯的話，在 Cosan Nove，優先股有股息支付，但控股公司並沒有隨之獲得股息支付。

So what about the cash needs at the HoldCo level? Will you have to add some money to the structure to pay out dividends to the preferred shareholders and the lack of visibility in terms of Raizen's dividends in the short-term? So those are my two questions.

那麼 HoldCo 層面的現金需求如何呢？您是否需要在結構中添加一些資金來向優先股股東支付股息，而短期內 Raizen 的股息缺乏可見性？這就是我的兩個問題。

Thanks for the question, Matheus. I'll start with the interest coverage ratio. It won't be a trigger for covenant. It has to do with a healthier capital structure for the company. You're right. Organically speaking, the cover ratio will tend to drop.

謝謝你的提問，馬修斯。我先從利息覆蓋率開始。這不會成為契約的觸發因素。這與公司更健康的資本結構有關。你說得對。從有機角度來說，覆蓋率會趨於下降。

And as I mentioned, the additional dividends will be paid out only in the first quarter. So as -- it will go down over time and that is one of the points that only reiterates the fact that we need to lower our net debt. That's why we're discussing alternatives to decrease that. The sense of urgency has to do with having a more well-balanced structure than anything to do with covenants regarding liquidity.

正如我所提到的，額外的股息將在第一季支付。因此，隨著時間的推移，它會下降，這只是重申我們需要降低淨債務的事實之一。這就是我們討論減少這種情況的替代方案的原因。緊迫感與擁有一個更均衡的結構有關，而不是與流動性契約有關的任何事情。

To your second point about preferred shares, those are two different things. Obviously, given the structure model. Preferred shareholders will be -- will have a preference, you're right, but there is no -- it's not obligatory to pay out those dividends.

關於優先股的第二點，這是兩件不同的事情。顯然，給了結構模型。優先股股東將有優先權，你是對的，但沒有義務支付這些股息。

What happens is that over time, when there's no dividend paid out and the fiscal side is different, then we have to monitor to make sure that the structure is not more costly than other structures -- capital structures at the company in terms of the service at Compass. It will depend on the level of payments by the company looking forward.

隨著時間的推移，當沒有支付股息並且財政方面有所不同時，我們必須進行監控以確保結構的成本不會高於其他結構——就 Compass 的服務而言，公司的資本結構。這將取決於公司未來的支付水準。

You're right in terms of preferred shareholders being -- having the priority, but what happens looking forward will depend on the company. That's the context.

您說得對，優先股股東擁有優先權，但未來會發生什麼事將取決於公司。這就是背景。

Guilherme Martins, Goldman Sachs.

吉列爾姆·馬丁斯，高盛。

It's a follow-up to Matheus' question. Obviously, the company is going to have to divest more to get to a healthier situation or closer to the 5.2x, as you said, which will be healthier. So if there are no more divestments as of now, what would be a potential DSR in terms of interest coverage ratio by the end of the year?

這是 Matheus 問題的後續回答。顯然，公司將不得不剝離更多資產，以實現更健康的狀況，或更接近您所說 5.2 倍的水平，這將更加健康。那麼，如果截至目前沒有進一步的撤資，那麼到今年年底，利息覆蓋率的潛在 DSR 是多少？

Thank you for the question, Guilherme. We haven't disclosed the guidance on that. But as I said, it should drop along the year. It should be lower than (technical difficulty). It also depends on the performance of the companies in the portfolio. Obviously, we'll be working throughout the year to see how that's going to pan out.

謝謝你的提問，Guilherme。我們尚未披露有關該方面的指導。但正如我所說，它應該會隨著時間的推移而下降。它應該低於（技術難度）。這也取決於投資組合中公司的表現。顯然，我們將全年努力觀察結果如何。

But you're right. So it's an important chapter, and we're definitely working to make sure that we execute on something this year. We're not working with a scenario where we will not be executing on that this year.

但你是對的。所以這是一個重要的篇章，我們一定會努力確保今年能完成一些事情。我們不會考慮今年無法執行該方案的情況。

Lucas Ferreira, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的盧卡斯費雷拉。

I have a couple of follow-up questions about what you've discussed earlier. Rodrigo, could you talk about Moove? What are you expecting in terms of CapEx for the next one to two years, considering the fire, you mentioned looking for alternatives to (inaudible)?

對於您之前討論的內容，我有幾個後續問題。羅德里戈，你能談談 Moove 嗎？考慮到火災，你提到尋找替代方案，你對未來一到兩年的資本支出有何預期？（聽不清楚）？

And I have another question about Cosan Nove. Is there a clause? What might happen if there's a capital increase at Raizen? Will that trigger any advances? What might happen to Cosan Nove if there's a different structure at Raizen or a capital increase or anything that might happen in the future?

我還有一個關於 Cosan Nove 的問題。有條款嗎？如果 Raizen 增加資本，會發生什麼事？這會帶來任何進展嗎？如果 Raizen 的結構發生變化或資本增加或未來發生任何其他事情，Cosan Nove 會發生什麼情況？

Thank you, Lucas, for the question. Well, about Moove and CapEx, right now, we don't have a CapEx estimate because, as I said, we're working on things that will be migrated in the company's facilities. Given the current scenario, we are using a mix of companies facilities. They are third-party facilities, but apart of that, we don't have a CapEx estimate for the time being.

謝謝盧卡斯提出的問題。嗯，關於 Moove 和 CapEx，目前，我們還沒有 CapEx 估算，因為正如我所說，我們正在處理將在公司設施中遷移的事情。鑑於目前的情況，我們正在使用多家公司的設施。它們是第三方設施，但除此之外，我們暫時沒有資本支出估算。

We have considered something marginal, especially in terms of adjustments and set up, but we don't have an estimate. As I said, the company has an insurance, has its own insurance. So the expectation for the CapEx, whatever it might be for the plant, a large part of it will be covered by the insurance.

我們考慮了一些邊際因素，特別是在調整和設定方面，但我們沒有估計。正如我所說，公司有保險，有自己的保險。因此，無論工廠的資本支出預期是多少，其中很大一部分將由保險承擔。

To your second point about Cosan Nove, there is no specific clause, but obviously, a lot will depend on what happens to the structure. There will have to be a renegotiation because Cosan Nove structure may not make sense anymore, it might be impacted.

對於您關於 Cosan Nove 的第二點，沒有具體的條款，但顯然，很大程度上取決於結構的變化。必須重新進行談判，因為 Cosan Nove 結構可能不再有意義，它可能會受到影響。

There's nothing happening at the moment, but depending on the company's capital structure, there may be a need for a reduction, but nothing major. And the partial redemption that took place this year is something relatively simple to do. So it shouldn't lead to an impact of a discussion at Raizen.

目前還沒有發生任何事情，但根據公司的資本結構，可能需要減少，但不會有任何重大變化。今年進行的部分贖回相對簡單。所以它不應該對 Raizen 的討論產生影響。

Regis Cardoso, XP.

雷吉斯·卡多佐，XP。

A couple of follow-up questions about the capital structure. Rodrigo mentioned that you'll have to reduce the absolute debt level. So what are we talking about at the end of the day? Are you planning on bringing the HoldCo debt level to zero and considering that the preferred debt might not have the same fiscal effect as the tax shield? What would be your target? Is it BRL10 billion, BRL0, BRL15 billion?

關於資本結構的幾個後續問題。羅德里戈提到你必須降低絕對債務水平。那我們最終要討論什麼呢？您是否計劃將 HoldCo 債務水準降至零，並考慮到優先債務可能不會產生與稅盾相同的財政效應？你的目標是什麼？是 100 億雷亞爾、0 億雷亞爾還是 150 億雷亞爾？

In terms of the preferred shares, Rodrigo talked about variable rates. What kind of variability are we talking about? And is there a tax efficiency effect when the redemption value is over the initial value? Is that something we should be monitoring?

關於優先股，羅德里戈談到了浮動利率。我們談論的是哪種變化？當贖回價值超過初始價值時是否會產生稅務效率效應？這是我們該監控的事情嗎？

And if you'll allow me a third follow-up question, please. Do you have any idea about Moove's timeline? Can it be measured in weeks, months or years, just so we know what to expect?

請容許我問第三個後續問題。您對 Moove 的時間軸有什麼了解嗎？是否可以用周、月或年來衡量，讓我們知道會發生什麼事？

Thanks for the questions. As for Moove's timeline, not for the reconstruction CapEx, but by the end of this year, we expect to be in a much better position, not only in terms of production capacity, but in terms of a clear strategy and executing on the CapEx.

感謝您的提問。至於 Moove 的時間表，不是重建資本支出，而是到今年年底，我們預計將處於更好的位置，不僅在生產能力方面，而且在明確的戰略和執行資本支出方面。

There's also the insurance, as I mentioned. So I don't see that as a risk. I was talking about the rate step-up. So there are points in time when there are rate step-ups, anther current cost level that begins to not be competitive. I'm talking not just about Cosan Nove, but Cosan Dez. At the average cost we have right now, it will be more expensive than the average cost. So it will be less compelling.

正如我所提到的，還有保險。所以我不認為這是一種風險。我剛才談到了利率上調的問題。因此，在某個時間點，當費率上升時，當前成本水準就會開始失去競爭力。我談論的不僅僅是 Cosan Nove，還有 Cosan Dez。按照我們目前的平均成本，它將比平均成本更昂貴。因此它的吸引力就會降低。

To your point about the results and the balance that is over the original amount, the important point is, it has a lot more to do with the company results than the dividend itself. So the destination it going to the preferred shareholders has to do with the net income. I mean the fact that it's over the original value isn't a risk to the company.

關於您提到的結果和超過原始金額的餘額，重要的一點是，它與公司業績的關係比與股息本身的關係更大。因此優先股股東的去向與淨收入有關。我的意思是，即使它超過了原始價值，對公司來說也不構成風險。

And about the capital structure, we did mention that in the last call. We're aiming to execute that in the next month or two for the short-term. We should have a healthier structure. And in the long-term, it should be zero. I don't want to exaggerate, but that's the mid-term. 1.5 is what we're looking at. We'll be in a better position, and we'll allow us to navigate that challenging scenario where they are higher interest rates.

關於資本結構，我們在上次電話會議中確實提到過。我們短期內的目標是在未來一兩個月內實現這一目標。我們應該有一個更健康的結構。從長遠來看，這個數字應該是零。我不想誇大其詞，但這是中期目標。我們的目標是 1.5。我們將處於更有利的地位，並能夠應對利率上升帶來的挑戰。

Let me just jump in what we want is for Cosan, the HoldCo, has structural debt level closer to zero. I don't know if we'll get to zero, but the HoldCo's dependence on a growing dividend cycle of the operating companies should not take place. So we need to give freedom, so these companies can grow, so they can implement their strategies. And our focus will be -- has been already and once we can focus again will be through the controlled company.

我直接說一下，我們希望的是，控股公司 Cosan 的結構性債務水準接近零。我不知道我們是否會達到零，但控股公司對營運公司不斷增長的股息週期的依賴不應該發生。所以我們需要給予自由，讓這些公司能夠成長，讓它們能夠執行自己的策略。我們的重點一直是——一旦我們能夠再次集中精力，我們將透過受控公司來集中精力。

So our objective is to not have any new lines of business or any substantial acquisitions done through Cosan. That's a moot point, and that's what will allow us to have low structural debt levels, so that we can continue to manage our portfolio efficiently.

因此，我們的目標是不透過 Cosan 開展任何新的業務線或進行任何重大收購。這是一個沒有實際意義的問題，而這正是讓我們擁有較低結構性債務水準的原因，以便我們能夠繼續有效地管理我們的投資組合。

Gustavo Sadka, Bradesco BBI.

古斯塔沃·薩德卡（Gustavo Sadka），Bradesco BBI。

You've addressed most questions. I have a question about Radar. Right now, given the current interest rates, considering a CDI investment, it looks like it's more favorable to sell and given the company's leverage. Will you be ramping up land sales? And what can we expect in terms of those sales?

您已經回答了大多數問題。我有一個關於雷達的問題。目前，考慮到目前的利率，考慮 CDI 投資，出售似乎更為有利，並考慮到公司的槓桿作用。您會增加土地銷售嗎？那麼，對於這些銷售，我們可以期待什麼呢？

Gustavo, thank you for the question. Yes. That's already happening in practice. To your point, about the target, we don't have a set target for that but in addition to the yield, we have been selling this land above our portfolio appraisal.

古斯塔沃，謝謝你的提問。是的。這在實踐中已經發生。關於您所說目標，我們沒有設定目標，但除了收益之外，我們還以高於投資組合評估的價格出售這塊土地。

In the last few years, we've captured significant value, especially the bumper crop. And you're right, we're below the [SPS] but that's been happening for a while without a guidance for that. Thank you for the question.

在過去的幾年裡，我們獲得了巨大的價值，尤其是豐收。你說得對，我們低於 [SPS]，但這種情況已經持續了一段時間，而沒有對此進行指導。謝謝你的提問。

The Q&A session is now concluded. I will now turn it over to Mr. Martins for his closing remarks.

問答環節現已結束。現在我將請馬丁斯先生致閉幕詞。

In my closing remarks, I'd like to focus on Raizen, please. I think we have made great progress in the last few months. We're very, very happy with the measures that have been implemented by the new management, by their focus and a very clear view about the future of the company as well as the divestment plan that is being put in place right now.

在我的結語中，我想重點談談 Raizen。我認為我們在過去幾個月裡取得了巨大進展。我們對新管理層實施的措施、他們的重點以及對公司未來的清晰認識以及目前正在實施的撤資計劃感到非常非常滿意。

We do have a very feasible plan. And it's the right size to be able to adjust the capital structure. We are highly confident on the company's ability to deliver excellent results and to focus completely on the company's core business. And I'm speaking for myself, and I am also speaking for Shell.

我們確實有一個非常可行的計劃。且其規模合適，能夠調整資本結構。我們對公司取得優異業績並完全專注於公司核心業務的能力充滿信心。我不僅代表自己發言，也代表殼牌公司發言。

Even though this has been a very tough quarter, I think, once again, it does show how serious and how engaged the company's management are to take the necessary measures, to make the necessary adjustments and to communicate that clearly to the market.

儘管這是一個非常艱難的季度，但我認為，它再次表明了公司管理層在採取必要措施、做出必要調整以及向市場清晰傳達這一信息方面的認真態度和投入程度。

And our role, everything that goes beyond the company's divestment plan. And it's very clear to us and to Shell. We're working very closely with them. We are in agreement with what we need to make in terms of adjustments to our capital structure, and we're working together and highly focused on that. So thank you all for joining us on this call, and we'll see you soon.

我們的職責包括公司撤資計畫以外的一切事務。我們和殼牌都非常清楚這一點。我們正在與他們密切合作。我們一致同意我們需要對資本結構做出哪些調整，我們正在共同努力並高度關注這一點。感謝大家參加這次電話會議，我們很快就會再見。

Cosan's first quarter 2025 earnings release video conference is now concluded. For further questions, please contact the Investor Relations department. Thank you so much for joining us, and have a great afternoon.

科森2025年第一季財報發布視訊會議現已結束。如有其他問題，請聯絡投資者關係部。非常感謝您加入我們，祝您下午愉快。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中的英文陳述是由現場翻譯人員宣讀的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。