Credo Technology Group Holding Ltd (CRDO) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. (Operator Instructions). I would now like to turn the conference over to Dan O'Neill. Please go ahead, sir.

女士們先生們，謝謝你們的支持。 （操作員說明）。我現在想把會議交給丹·歐尼爾。請繼續，先生。

Good afternoon. Thank you for joining our earnings call for the first quarter of fiscal 2025. Today, I'm joined by Bill Brennan, Credo's Chief Executive Officer; and Dan Fleming, our Chief Financial Officer.

午安.感謝您參加我們的 2025 財年第一季財報電話會議。和我們的財務長丹·弗萊明。

As a reminder, during the call, we will make certain forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that are discussed in detail in our documents filed with the SEC, which can be found in the Investor Relations section of the company's website.

提醒一下，在電話會議期間，我們將做出某些前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受到風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中進行了詳細討論，這些文件可以在公司網站的投資者關係部分找到。

It's not possible for the company's management to predict all risks nor can the company assess the impact of all factors on this business. For the extent to which any factor or combination of factors may cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in any forward-looking statements.

公司管理階層不可能預測所有風險，也不可能評估所有因素對該業務的影響。任何因素或因素組合可能導致實際結果與任何前瞻性陳述中包含的結果有重大差異。

Given these risks, uncertainties and assumptions, the forward-looking events discussed during this call may not occur and actual results could differ materially and adversely from those anticipated or implied. The company undertakes no obligation to publicly update forward-looking statements for any reason after the date of this call. to conform these statements to actual results or to changes in the company's expectations except as required by law.

鑑於這些風險、不確定性和假設，本次電話會議中討論的前瞻性事件可能不會發生，實際結果可能與預期或暗示的結果有重大不利差異。該公司不承擔在本次電話會議之後以任何理由公開更新前瞻性陳述的義務。使這些陳述符合實際結果或公司預期的變化，法律要求的除外。

Also during this call, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures which we consider to be important measures of the company's performance. These non-GAAP financial measures are provided in addition to and not as a substitute for or superior to, financial performance prepared in accordance with US GAAP.

此外，在本次電話會議中，我們也將提及某些我們認為是衡量公司績效的重要指標的非公認會計準則財務指標。這些非公認會計原則財務指標是根據美國公認會計原則編制的財務績效的補充，而不是替代或優於根據美國公認會計原則編制的財務業績。

A discussion of why we use non-GAAP financial measures and the reconciliations between our GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures is available in the earnings release we issued today, which can be accessed using the Investor Relations portion of our website.

我們今天發布的收益報告中討論了我們為什麼使用非 GAAP 財務指標以及我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 財務指標之間的調節，您可以透過我們網站的投資者關係部分存取該報告。

I will now turn the call over to our CEO. Bill?

我現在將把電話轉給我們的執行長。帳單？

Welcome to our Q1 fiscal '25, earnings call. I'll start with a review of our Q1 performance and then discuss our future outlook.

歡迎參加我們的 25 財年第一季財報電話會議。我將首先回顧我們第一季的業績，然後討論我們的未來前景。

Our CFO, Dan Fleming, will then provide detailed Q1 results and share expectations for Q2. For Q1, Credo reported revenue of $59.7 million and non-GAAP gross margin of 62.9%. Our product revenues of $57.3 million were up 30% compared to the prior quarter, establishing a new quarterly record for the company.

我們的財務長 Dan Fleming 隨後將提供詳細的第一季業績並分享對第二季的預期。 Credo 報告第一季營收為 5,970 萬美元，非 GAAP 毛利率為 62.9%。我們的產品收入為 5,730 萬美元，比上一季成長 30%，創造了公司新的季度記錄。

Product revenues were driven by rapidly expanding AI deployments. Credo is a pure-play high-speed connectivity company. We deliver a differentiated set of solutions, including active electrical cables or AECs, optical DSPs, line card PHYs, SerDes chiplets and SerDes IP licenses or Ethernet port speeds ranging from 100 gig up to 1.6 terabits per second.

產品收入是由快速擴展的人工智慧部署所推動的。 Credo 是一家純粹的高速連結公司。我們提供一套差異化的解決方案，包括主動電纜或 AEC、光學 DSP、線路卡 PHY、SerDes 小晶片和 SerDes IP 許可證或乙太網路連接埠速度範圍從 100 gig 到每秒 1.6 太比特。

The data center market is dynamic and evolving rapidly, which we believe will create even more opportunities for Credo. Although we are primarily targeting the leading hyperscalers, we are now observing increased spending by the next tier of data center operators.

資料中心市場充滿活力且發展迅速，我們相信這將為 Credo 創造更多機會。儘管我們主要針對領先的超大規模企業，但我們現在觀察到下一層資料中心營運商的支出增加。

We see a group of emerging hyperscalers deploying an increasing amount of infrastructure to take advantage of opportunities presented by AI. With these customers, we find we have immediate credibility from our prior success with traditional hyperscalers, and that has indeed helped us to win new programs across our product lines. This is translating to material revenue across several growing customers.

我們看到一群新興的超大規模企業部署了越來越多的基礎設施，以利用人工智慧帶來的機會。對於這些客戶，我們發現我們從先前與傳統超大規模供應商的成功中獲得了直接的信譽，這確實幫助我們贏得了整個產品線的新專案。這轉化為多個不斷增長的客戶的物質收入。

Notably, we expect to see a new 10% customer in Q2. Credo aims to extend its reach into new markets as data rates rise. Later this year, we intend to enter the 64 gig PAM4 PCIe Gen 6 market. offering retimer and ADC solutions that are optimized for signal integrity, latency, power efficiency and cost effectiveness.

值得注意的是，我們預計第二季將出現 10% 的新客戶。 Credo 的目標是隨著數據速率的提高而將業務範圍擴大到新市場。今年晚些時候，我們打算進入 64 GB PAM4 PCIe Gen 6 市場。提供針對訊號完整性、延遲、功效和成本效益進行最佳化的重定時器和 ADC 解決方案。

Now regarding our AEC product line, during the first quarter, AEC has continued to be our main source of revenue, and we anticipate that ADCs will play a crucial role in driving growth in fiscal '25, and beyond. Today, we're in production with solutions for port speeds up to 800 gig, and we expect to deliver power optimized three-nanometer products in 2025, for the 1.6 port market.

現在就我們的 AEC 產品線而言，在第一季度，AEC 仍然是我們的主要收入來源，我們預計 ADC 將在推動 25 財年及以後的成長中發揮關鍵作用。如今，我們正在生產端口速度高達 800 gig 的解決方案，並預計在 2025 年為 1.6 端口市場提供功率優化的三奈米產品。

We've delivered AECs in a wide variety of form factors and with a range of functionality designed to meet the diverse needs of our customers. We think our approach of offering system-level products blending customized hardware and software with fast turnaround time is crucial to maintaining our competitive edge.

我們提供了各種外形尺寸和一系列功能的 AEC，旨在滿足客戶的不同需求。我們認為，我們提供將客製化硬體和軟體與快速週轉時間相結合的系統級產品的方法對於保持我們的競爭優勢至關重要。

And as a result, we've developed deep relationships with our customers to deliver very innovative AD solutions. Based on these customer relationships, market feedback and the inherent advantages of AECs compared to alternative solutions, we have seen AECs become the de facto solution for in-rack connectivity at 50 gig per line speeds and above.

因此，我們與客戶建立了深厚的關係，以提供非常創新的 AD 解決方案。基於這些客戶關係、市場回饋以及 AEC 與替代解決方案相比的固有優勢，我們發現 AEC 已成為每線速度 50 GB 及以上的機架內連接的事實上的解決方案。

In addition, increasing rack power densities and the migration to liquid cooling are effectively reducing the physical length required for back-end network connections, and thereby increasing the opportunity for AECs.

此外，增加機架功率密度和遷移到液體冷卻可有效減少後端網路連接所需的物理長度，從而增加 AEC 的機會。

During Q1, our existing and new customer relationships continue to expand and develop providing us with more confidence in the growth prospects of our AEC business going forward. Given that, we continue to expect our ramp of AECs to drive an inflection point in our sequential growth in the back half of fiscal '25.

第一季度，我們現有的和新的客戶關係不斷擴大和發展，使我們對 AEC 業務未來的成長前景更有信心。有鑑於此，我們繼續預期 AEC 的成長將在 25 財年後半段推動我們的連續成長出現轉折點。

Now I'll turn to our optical DSP business. I'm pleased to report we're making continued progress with our optical DSP business on multiple fronts. With AI deployments accelerating adoption of Credo solutions.

現在我將談談我們的光學 DSP 業務。我很高興地向大家報告，我們的光學 DSP 業務在多個方面不斷取得進展。隨著 AI 部署加速 Credo 解決方案的採用。

Our optical module customers shipped AOCs and transceivers based on credo DSPs to both US and International end customers. Based on Q1 results and our outlook, we remain on track to achieve our goal for optical DSPs to be at least 10% of our fiscal '25 revenue.

我們的光學模組客戶向美國和國際最終客戶提供基於 credo DSP 的 AOC 和收發器。根據第一季的業績和我們的展望，我們仍有望實現光學 DSP 占我們 25 財年營收至少 10% 的目標。

Beyond our existing production programs, we remain excited about future growth prospects in this category for several reasons. We are currently working with numerous optical module manufacturers to develop AOCs and transceivers and notably, we've secured our first design win with an industry-leading module manufacturer.

除了我們現有的生產計劃之外，我們仍然對這一類別的未來成長前景感到興奮，原因有幾個。我們目前正在與眾多光模組製造商合作開發 AOC 和收發器，值得注意的是，我們已經贏得了與業界領先的模組製造商的第一個設計勝利。

Last fall, Credo introduced the concept of LRO or linear receive optics which maintains a DSP only in the transmit path of an optical module as an innovative way to reduce power in both 800-gig and 1.6T optics. The LRO concept is increasingly being adopted within the industry and a new hyperscaler has decided to implement this strategy in their architecture.

去年秋天，Credo 引入了 LRO 或線性接收光學元件的概念，該概念僅在光學模組的傳輸路徑中保留 DSP，作為降低 800-gig 和 1.6T 光學元件功耗的創新方法。 LRO 概念在業界越來越多地被採用，一家新的超大規模企業決定在其架構中實施這項策略。

This application will target 800-gig module power of less than 10 watts, significantly below the typical 15 watts seen with full DSP architectures. We expect to start seeing LRO deployments in calendar '25. At 800 gig and 1.6 port speeds, we see energy efficiency becoming a more critical factor as power delivery and cooling infrastructure becomes even more challenging.

應用的目標是 800g 模組功率低於 10 瓦，遠低於完整 DSP 架構的典型 15 瓦。我們預計 LRO 將在 25 年開始部署。在 800 gig 和 1.6 連接埠速度下，我們認為能源效率成為一個更關鍵的因素，因為電力傳輸和冷卻基礎設施變得更具挑戰性。

Notably, power efficiency drove our decision to move directly to three- nanometer for Credo's 1.6 DSPs, and we plan to tape out power optimized solutions with both full DSP and LRO options later this calendar year. Taking into account customer feedback and rising momentum, we anticipate sustained growth in our optical business.

值得注意的是，功率效率促使我們決定將 Credo 的 1.6 DSP 直接轉向 3 奈米，並且我們計劃在今年稍後推出具有完整 DSP 和 LRO 選項的功率優化解決方案。考慮到客戶反饋和不斷增長的勢頭，我們預計光學業務將持續成長。

Now regarding our Line Card PHY business. In the first quarter, our Line Card PHY business was once again an important contributor to our overall product revenue growth. driven by strong contributions from 400-gig and 800-gig solutions.

現在談談我們的線路卡 PHY 業務。第一季度，我們的線路卡PHY業務再次成為我們整體產品收入成長的重要貢獻者。受到 400g 和 800g 解決方案的強大貢獻的推動。

Our line card PHYs revenue comes from retimer and MACsec encryption products for port speeds up to 1.6 terabits per second. In this segment, our customers include networking OEMs for traditional switching applications and more recently, server ODMs for emerging AI appliance applications.

我們的線路卡 PHY 收入來自重定時器和 MACsec 加密產品，連接埠速度高達每秒 1.6 太比特。在這一領域，我們的客戶包括用於傳統交換應用的網路 OEM 以及最近用於新興 AI 設備應用的伺服器 ODM。

We see new demand for our line card PHY solutions within Ethernet-based AI appliances for scale-out networks as rapidly increasing GPU performance places greater signal integrity demands inside the server. These emerging opportunities combined with traditional switch opportunities should lead to TAM growth into the future for our Line Card PHY solutions.

隨著 GPU 效能的快速提高對伺服器內部的訊號完整性提出了更高的要求，我們看到了基於乙太網路的 AI 裝置對橫向擴展網路中的線路卡 PHY 解決方案的新需求。這些新興機會與傳統交換機機會相結合，應該會導致 TAM 在我們的線路卡 PHY 解決方案的未來發展。

Lastly, I'll review our SerDes licensing and chiplet businesses, we continue to make progress with customers and expand our funnel within our SerDes IP licensing and chiplet businesses. For fiscal '25, while we continue to expect quarterly variability due to the nature of revenue recognition, we see growth opportunities driven by a combination of license, royalty and chiplet revenues.

最後，我將回顧我們的 SerDes 授權和小晶片業務，我們將繼續與客戶一起取得進步，並擴大我們在 SerDes IP 授權和小晶片業務中的管道。對於 25 財年，雖然我們繼續預期由於收入確認的性質而出現季度變化，但我們看到了由許可、特許權使用費和小晶片收入共同推動的成長機會。

With connectivity speeds rising fueled mainly by the needs of AI applications, Credo is poised for future growth. We offer a wide range of SerDes solutions up to 224 gig speeds in a wide range of process geometries from 28-nanometer to 3-nanometer. We continue to win due to our compelling combination of performance, power and exceptional technical support.

隨著人工智慧應用需求的推動，連接速度不斷提高，Credo 已為未來的成長做好了準備。我們提供各種 SerDes 解決方案，速度高達 224 gig，採用從 28 奈米到 3 奈米的各種製程幾何形狀。我們憑藉出色的性能、強大功能和卓越的技術支援不斷取得勝利。

To summarize, I'm very pleased with our team's performance in Q1. And specifically in terms of the strong execution of our product ramp and our ongoing success engaging with customers. The rise of generative AI is driving greater demand for cutting-edge, power-efficient, high-speed connectivity solutions, and Credo is dedicated to advancing our range of solutions to address this growing demand.

總而言之，我對我們團隊第一季的表現非常滿意。特別是我們產品升級的強大執行以及我們與客戶互動的持續成功。生成式人工智慧的興起正在推動對尖端、節能、高速連接解決方案的更大需求，Credo 致力於推動我們的解決方案系列，以滿足這一不斷增長的需求。

This month, Credo will have a strong presence at the CIOE optical conference in Shenzhen, followed by the ECOC optical conference in Germany. We expect these events will add to the momentum we've built since OFC in March. And next month, we'll be very visible at the OCP conference in Silicon Valley showcasing a wide array of advanced solutions for AI clusters.

本月，Credo 將強勢亮相深圳 CIOE 光學大會，隨後是德國 ECOC 光學大會。我們預計這些活動將增強我們自 3 月 OFC 以來建立的勢頭。下個月，我們將在矽谷舉行的 OCP 會議上亮相，展示一系列適用於 AI 集群的先進解決方案。

Moving forward, we continue to see an inflection point in the second half of fiscal '25, driven by existing and new customer engagements across the entire range of our connectivity solutions.

展望未來，在整個連接解決方案範圍內現有和新客戶參與的推動下，我們將繼續在 25 財年下半年看到拐點。

I'll now turn the call over to our CFO, Dan Fleming, and he will provide additional details.

我現在將把電話轉給我們的財務長 Dan Fleming，他將提供更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Bill, and good afternoon. I will first review our Q1 results and then discuss our outlook for Q2 of fiscal year '25.

謝謝你，比爾，下午好。我將首先回顧我們第一季的業績，然後討論我們對 25 財年第二季的展望。

In Q1, we reported revenue of $59.7 million, down 2% sequentially and up 70% year-over-year. Our IP business generated $2.4 million of revenue in Q1, down 14% year-over-year. IP remains a strategic part of our business.

第一季度，我們的營收為 5,970 萬美元，比上一季下降 2%，比去年同期成長 70%。我們的 IP 業務第一季營收為 240 萬美元，年減 14%。知識產權仍然是我們業務的策略部分。

But as a reminder, our IP results may vary from quarter-to-quarter driven largely by specific deliverables to pre-existing or new contracts. While the mix of IP and product revenue will vary in any given quarter over time, our revenue mix in Q1 was 4% IP below our long-term expectation for IP, which remains 10% to 15% of revenue.

但提醒一下，我們的智慧財產權結果可能會因季度而異，這主要是由現有或新合約的具體交付成果決定的。雖然IP 和產品收入的組合在任何給定季度都會隨著時間的推移而變化，但我們第一季的收入組合為IP 4%，低於我們對IP 的長期預期，後者仍佔收入的10 % 至15%。

Our product business generated $57.3 million of revenue in Q1, up 30% sequentially and up 77% year-over-year. Our product business, excluding product engineering services, generated a record $53.8 million of revenue in Q1, 21% higher than our previous product record and up 32% sequentially.

我們的產品業務在第一季創造了 5,730 萬美元的收入，季增 30%，年增 77%。我們的產品業務（不包括產品工程服務）在第一季創造了創紀錄的 5,380 萬美元收入，比之前的產品記錄高出 21%，比上一季成長 32%。

Our top two end customers were each greater than 10% of revenue in Q1. Our team delivered Q1 non-GAAP gross margin of 62.9% and just below the low end of our guidance range and down 323 basis points sequentially as a result of the lower IP contribution in the quarter.

我們的前兩名終端客戶在第一季的營收中分別佔了 10% 以上。我們團隊的第一季非 GAAP 毛利率為 62.9%，略低於我們指導範圍的下限，由於本季度 IP 貢獻較低，環比下降了 323 個基點。

Our IP non-GAAP gross margin generally hovers near 100%, and was 96.8% in Q1. Our product non-GAAP gross margin was 61.5% in the quarter. up 784 basis points sequentially and up 472 basis points year-over-year, primarily due to increasing scale.

我們的 IP 非 GAAP 毛利率整體徘徊在 100% 附近，第一季為 96.8%。本季我們產品的非 GAAP 毛利率為 61.5%。環比增長 784 個基點，較去年同期成長 472 個基點，主要是因為規模擴大。

Total non-GAAP operating expenses in the first quarter were $35.4 million, below the midpoint of our guidance range and up 8% sequentially due to a 14th week in the quarter. Our non-GAAP operating income was $2.2 million in Q1 compared to non-GAAP operating income of $7.5 million last quarter.

第一季的非 GAAP 營運支出總額為 3,540 萬美元，低於我們指引範圍的中點，由於本季已進入第 14 週，季增 8%。我們第一季的非 GAAP 營業收入為 220 萬美元，而上季的非 GAAP 營業收入為 750 萬美元。

Our non-GAAP operating margin was 3.7% in the quarter compared to a non-GAAP operating margin of 12.3% last quarter, a sequential decrease of 8.6 percentage points. We reported non-GAAP net income of $7 million in Q1 compared to non-GAAP net income of $11.8 million last quarter. Cash flow used in operations in the first quarter was $7.2 million, down sequentially primarily due to changes in working capital, driven by a ramp in product shipments.

本季我們的非 GAAP 營業利潤率為 3.7%，而上季的非 GAAP 營業利潤率為 12.3%，季減 8.6 個百分點。我們報告第一季非 GAAP 淨利潤為 700 萬美元，而上季非 GAAP 淨利潤為 1,180 萬美元。第一季營運使用的現金流量為 720 萬美元，季減，主要是因為產品出貨量增加所推動的營運資本變動。

CapEx was $5.9 million in the quarter driven by R&D equipment spending. And free cash flow was negative $13.1 million, a decrease of $32.4 million year-over-year. We ended the quarter with cash and equivalents of $398.6 million, a decrease of $11.4 million from the fourth quarter.

在研發設備支出的推動下，本季資本支出為 590 萬美元。自由現金流為負 1,310 萬美元，年減 3,240 萬美元。本季末，我們的現金及等價物為 3.986 億美元，比第四季減少 1,140 萬美元。

We remain well capitalized to continue investing in our growth opportunities while maintaining a substantial cash buffer. Our Q1 ending inventory was $31.6 million, up $5.7 million sequentially.

我們仍然擁有充足的資本，可以繼續投資於我們的成長機會，同時保持大量的現金緩衝。我們第一季期末庫存為 3,160 萬美元，比上一季增加 570 萬美元。

Now turning to our guidance. We currently expect revenue in Q2 of fiscal '25, to be between $65 million and $68 million, up 11% sequentially at the midpoint. We expect Q2 non-GAAP gross margin to be within a range of 62% to 64%. We expect Q2 non-GAAP operating expenses to be between $36 million and $38 million. And we expect Q2 diluted weighted average share count to be approximately 182 million shares.

現在轉向我們的指導。我們目前預計 25 財年第二季的營收將在 6,500 萬美元至 6,800 萬美元之間，比中位數連續成長 11%。我們預計第二季非 GAAP 毛利率將在 62% 至 64% 之間。我們預計第二季非 GAAP 營運支出將在 3,600 萬美元至 3,800 萬美元之間。我們預計第二季攤薄加權平均股數約為 1.82 億股。

As we move forward through fiscal year '25, we continue to expect sequential growth to accelerate in the second half of the year. We expect non-GAAP operating expenses to grow at half the rate of top line growth. And as a result, we look forward to driving operating leverage throughout the year.

隨著我們進入 25 財年，我們繼續預計下半年環比成長將加速。我們預計非公認會計準則營運費用的成長率將是營收成長率的一半。因此，我們期待全年提高營運槓桿。

And with that, I will open it up for questions.

接下來，我將開放提問。

(Operator Instructions) Toshiya Hari, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指令）Toshiya Hari，高盛。

My first question is on the AEC business and how we should be thinking about the acceleration in growth you guys spoke to as it pertains to the second half. Bill, I think on past calls, you've talked about your second customer ramping in the AEC space and your engagements with additional customers in that space as well.

我的第一個問題是關於 AEC 業務，以及我們應該如何考慮你們提到的下半年的成長加速。 Bill，我想在過去的電話中，您談到了您的第二個客戶在 AEC 領域的發展以及您與該領域其他客戶的合作。

Can you kind of speak to the key drivers that you see contributing to the acceleration in growth in the second half of the year? And how you're thinking about your AUC opportunity outside of in-rack connectivity as you move into calendar '25 and '26?

您能否談談您認為推動下半年成長加速的關鍵驅動因素？當您進入日曆「25」和「26」時，您如何考慮機架內連線以外的 AUC 機會？

Sure. So I'll start with -- I think we're pretty happy with the fact that AEC adoption is continuing pretty broadly. It has really become a de facto standard for the lengths that we address, which is primarily in rack at this point. but may expand to track five to seven-meter cables in the future as we see rack densities increasing.

當然。首先，我認為我們對 AEC 的廣泛採用感到非常滿意。它確實已經成為我們所解決的長度的事實標準，目前主要處於機架中。但隨著我們看到機架密度不斷增加，未來可能會擴展到追蹤 5 至 7 公尺的電纜。

So as that happens, typically, connections that were made with 10-meter to 20-meter optical solutions can now be made with five to seven-meter AEC solutions. So we do see broad adoption continuing, and it's really with US hyperscalers, global hyperscalers, what we introduced a new term with emerging hyperscalers as well as service providers.

因此，通常情況下，使用 10 公尺到 20 公尺光學解決方案建立的連接現在可以使用 5 到 7 公尺 AEC 解決方案建立。因此，我們確實看到了廣泛的採用仍在繼續，這確實是美國的超大規模企業、全球的超大規模企業，我們為新興的超大規模企業以及服務提供者引入了一個新術語。

So I think as we stand right now, we're really well positioned to see future growth with both 400-gig and 800-gig AEC solutions that are in development now engagements with customers. And in the future, as there's a move towards 1.6, I think we'll be in a really good position to address that market, especially because we'll really bring much differentiated power compared to competitors.

因此，我認為就我們目前的情況而言，我們確實有能力看到 400g 和 800g AEC 解決方案的未來成長，這些解決方案目前正在與客戶合作開發。未來，隨著向 1.6 的發展，我認為我們將處於非常有利的位置來應對該市場，特別是因為與競爭對手相比，我們確實會帶來更多差異化的功能。

I will say that as Ethernet back-end networks are becoming more mainstream, we're seeing a focus shift within our customer base to really network quality. And it's important to point out, when they have a single hardware failure or a link cap, it can cost 30 minutes productivity and really cost them tens of thousands of dollars.

我想說，隨著乙太網路後端網路變得越來越主流，我們看到客戶群的焦點轉向真正的網路品質。需要指出的是，當他們出現單一硬體故障或鏈路上限時，可能會降低 30 分鐘的工作效率，並真正造成數萬美元的損失。

And so if they look at the Pareto of things that would make their clusters more efficient, having solutions that have really high reliability is becoming really a primary objective. And so when we think about ADCs would have been time before failure of 100 million hours in better rates of five orders or more better than IEEE requirements.

因此，如果他們著眼於使集群更有效率的帕累託法則，那麼擁有真正高可靠性的解決方案將成為真正的首要目標。因此，當我們考慮到 ADC 發生故障之前的時間，其故障率比 IEEE 要求高出五個數量級或更多。

And the fact that we've had billions of operating -- billions of operating hours that will be flatless in a sense. There's really what we see is a shifting priority to move to these solutions, to move these active copper solutions.

事實上，我們已經有數十億的運行時間，從某種意義上說，數十億的運行時間將是不穩定的。我們確實看到，轉向這些解決方案、轉向這些活躍的銅解決方案的優先順序正在發生變化。

And so to further that, as I mentioned before, the I think there's a desire to even figure out networking topologies that allow them to make a portion of the back-end network connections with longer five to seven-meter ADCs that span two to three racks.

因此，正如我之前提到的，我認為甚至希望找出網路拓撲，使他們能夠與跨越兩到三個更長的五到七米 ADC 建立部分後端網路連接架子。

And ultimately, I think we see this really driving an uplift in the AEC market and an expansion of the TAM long term. I hope that gives you color, we're quite bullish on this space.

最終，我認為我們看到這確實推動了 AEC 市場的提升和 TAM 的長期擴張。我希望這能為您帶來啟發，我們非常看好這個領域。

Yeah. That's really helpful. And then as a quick follow-up on the optical DSP side of your portfolio. It's really nice to hear the customer traction. I think you guys reiterated that for fiscal '25, it should be more than 10% or at least 10% of your business.

是的。這真的很有幫助。然後作為您產品組合中光學 DSP 方面的快速跟進。很高興聽到客戶的注意。我想你們重申，對於 25 財年，它應該超過你們業務的 10% 或至少 10%。

Longer term, given your current engagements, the customer back and forth are having, what are your market share aspirations in this business? I know you're playing the role of disruptor, but curious how you're thinking about your market presence over time.

從長遠來看，考慮到您目前的業務、來回的客戶，您對該業務的市場佔有率期望是什麼？我知道您正在扮演顛覆者的角色，但很好奇您如何考慮隨著時間的推移您的市場存在。

And then within the context of LROs, I think on the last call, you talked about $1.60 potentially being a catalyst for increased adoption. Is that still the case? And if so, is that pretty much a '25, '26 dynamic?

然後在 LRO 的背景下，我認為在上次電話會議中，您談到 1.60 美元可能會成為增加採用的催化劑。現在還是這樣嗎？如果是這樣，這基本上是 25 年、26 年的動態嗎？

So I'll say that we're quite happy with the optical DSP business. We are on track to achieve a goal that you reiterated, which is 10% or higher. Our fiscal '25, revenue. For sure, we're building momentum. When we think about our position in the market today, there are more than 2 million modules with accretive DSPs that have been deployed in data centers.

所以我想說我們對光學 DSP 業務非常滿意。我們正在努力實現您重申的 10% 或更高的目標。我們的 25 財年收入。當然，我們正在積蓄動力。當我們思考我們當今的市場地位時，資料中心已部署了超過 200 萬個具有增值 DSP 的模組。

And this fiscal year, we'll ship more units than we've shipped in all previous years combined. So there is real momentum that is building. We've got programs identified that will drive sustained fast growth in fiscal '26, and beyond. And the bottom line is, as we sit here today, we've got a compelling set of solutions of 50-gig and 100-gig per lane ultimately measured by signal integrity, power and cost.

本財年，我們的出貨量將超過前幾年的總和。因此，真正的勢頭正在形成。我們已經確定了將推動 26 財年及以後持續快速成長的計劃。最重要的是，當我們今天坐在這裡時，我們已經獲得了一套引人注目的每通道 50G 和 100G 解決方案，最終透過訊號完整性、功耗和成本來衡量。

So I think that the stage is set for there to be continued momentum that Credo builds in this market. From a market share standpoint, we're still small and rising. And the bottom line is it's one design at the time, converting one customer at a time is really the focus.

因此，我認為 Credo 在這個市場上繼續保持勢頭的舞台已經準備好了。從市場佔有率的角度來看，我們仍然規模較小，而且還在上升。最重要的是，它當時只有一種設計，一次轉換一位客戶才是真正的焦點。

And as I mentioned earlier, we feel very, very good about engaging in a first program, and it will lead to multiple programs with a module manufacturer that's previously been considered a lock for the incumbent DSP competitor. The competitive landscape is shifting.

正如我之前提到的，我們對參與第一個項目感覺非常非常好，它將導致與模組製造商的多個項目，而這家模組製造商之前被認為是現有DSP 競爭對手的鎖定之地。競爭格局正在改變。

And the bottom line, as we look towards the 1.6 market, we're going to deliver both full DSP and LRO solutions the key here for us is to deliver kind of a new definition of what competitive is for power. We believe we're going to deliver a full DSP solution that's on the order of half the power of the devices that have been introduced into the market really almost prematurely in a sense that the power is so high in comparison to what the optical launch market is looking for.

最重要的是，當我們展望 1.6 市場時，我們將提供完整的 DSP 和 LRO 解決方案，對我們來說，關鍵是為功率競爭提供一個新的定義。我們相信我們將提供一個完整的 DSP 解決方案，其功率大約是已引入市場的設備的一半，實際上幾乎是過早的，因為與光學發射市場相比，功率是如此之高正在尋找。

And so we're agnostic as it relates to full DSP and LRO. The bottom line is we'll deliver a full DSP at the 1.6 speed that ultimately is in the 10-watt range or less. And that will enable any optical player to actually build standard OSFP or QSFP-DD and fit within the power ceiling there.

因此，我們對它與完整的 DSP 和 LRO 的關係持不可知論。最重要的是，我們將以 1.6 速度提供完整的 DSP，最終功率在 10 瓦或更小。這將使任何光學播放器能夠真正建立標準 OSFP 或 QSFP-DD 並適應那裡的功率上限。

We'll offer options with LRO to take it even further down from an energy efficiency standpoint. So we'll ultimately let our customers make that decision.

我們將提供 LRO 選項，從能源效率的角度進一步降低能耗。所以我們最終會讓我們的客戶做出決定。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Tore Svanberg, Stifel Nicolas and Company.

Tore Svanberg、Stifel Nicolas 和公司。

Yes. Thank you. Bill, you just said something that I called my attention. You said you're going to ship more DSPs in fiscal '25, than all previous years. I mean, obviously, that includes the AEC business. But can you just elaborate a little bit on that because that seems like a pretty high number?

是的。謝謝。比爾，你剛才說了一些話引起了我的注意。您說過您將在 25 財年交付比往年更多的 DSP。我的意思是，顯然，這包括 AEC 業務。但你能否詳細說明這個問題，因為這個數字看起來相當高？

Yeah, the reference was not really in regards to ADCs. This is really in reference to our optical DSP business. And so I will say that we continue to be engaged with first US hyperscaler in production as well as we see a return to spending in the international space as well.

是的，這個參考並不是真正關於 ADC 的。這實際上是針對我們的光學 DSP 業務而言的。因此，我想說，我們將繼續與美國第一家超大型企業進行生產合作，我們也看到國際領域的支出有所回升。

And so I think that -- from our perspective, that's no surprise. I think we've alluded to the ramp that's going to take place in this fiscal year. And I think we're well positioned to continue that in fiscal '26.

所以我認為，從我們的角度來看，這並不奇怪。我認為我們已經提到了本財年將發生的成長。我認為我們已經準備好在 26 財年繼續這一目標。

Got it. My second question is, you mentioned penetration or entrance into the PCI retimer market. Could you just talk a little bit about why now? I mean, clearly, this is a market that's been around for a few years, but it seems to be expanding. So help us understand a little bit the timing entering this market? And when should we expect some early revenues for Credo in this market?

知道了。我的第二個問題是，您提到滲透或進入 PCI 重定時器市場。現在您能簡單談談為什麼嗎？我的意思是，顯然，這個市場已經存在了幾年，但似乎正在擴大。那麼請幫助我們了解進入這個市場的時機呢？我們什麼時候可以預期 Credo 在這個市場上獲得早期收入？

Yeah. So I think that we've talked about the intent to enter the PCIe market, specifically at the Gen 6 speed, which is 64 gig PAM4 we opted not to pursue the Gen 5 market, and we probably made a bad call on that. But we felt like from a SD standpoint that entering the market at 64-gig will enable us to deliver the same kind of compelling benefits that we brought to Ethernet and really specifically the 50-gig and 100-gig level.

是的。因此，我認為我們已經討論了進入 PCIe 市場的意圖，特別是 Gen 6 速度，即 64 gig PAM4，我們選擇不進入 Gen 5 市場，我們可能對此做出了錯誤的決定。但我們認為，從 SD 的角度來看，進入 64 Gig 市場將使我們能夠提供與乙太網路（特別是 50 Gig 和 100 Gig 等級）相同的引人注目的優勢。

And so when we talk about Signal Integrity, we talked about energy efficiency talk about having the lowest cost basis of any competitor in the market. And really with PCIe, there's an opportunity here from a latency standpoint and a DSP architecture standpoint for us to really be differentiated as well in a sense of having a SerDes that's a full-blown DSP with latency numbers that are much lower than competitive solutions that have been announced.

因此，當我們談論訊號完整性時，我們談論了能源效率，並談論了市場上所有競爭對手的最低成本基礎。事實上，對於 PCIe，從延遲的角度和 DSP 架構的角度來看，我們有機會真正實現差異化，因為擁有 SerDes，這是一個成熟的 DSP，其延遲數比競爭解決方案低得多。 。

And so we think the timing is right. I'll also mention that you'll see us enter the market and then accelerate the market to Gen 7. We've already got 128 gig silicon that has been tested by a lead partner in the market. And so as we see AI driving the demand for higher and higher bandwidth, this is something we'll really lean into PCIe.

所以我們認為時機是正確的。我還要提到的是，您將看到我們進入市場，然後加速市場向第 7 代的發展。因此，當我們看到人工智慧推動對越來越高頻寬的需求時，我們將真正傾向於 PCIe。

Suji Desilva, ROTH Capital.

蘇吉·德西爾瓦，羅仕資本。

Hi, Bill. Hi, Dan. In terms of the customer concentration, you talked about a new expected 10% customer in F 2Q. I just wanted to get a sense if that customer is kind of starting from the ground floor in F 1Q or whether it's been a gradual growth. I just to understand the contribution from that new ramp?

嗨，比爾。嗨，丹。在客戶集中度方面，您談到了 2 季度預計新增 10% 的客戶。我只是想了解該客戶是否是從 F 1Q 的底層開始的，或者是否是逐漸增長的。我只是想了解新坡道的貢獻？

Yeah, sure. This is not a new customer. This is a customer that we've worked with for going on a couple of years now. And so we've seen that they've been really receptive to the solutions that we're delivering. And as their spending plan has increased, we've seen them become a much more significant customer for us.

是的，當然。這不是新客戶。這是我們已經合作了幾年的客戶。因此，我們看到他們非常樂於接受我們提供的解決方案。隨著他們的支出計劃增加，我們發現他們成為我們更重要的客戶。

But yeah, they've been a customer in the past. But we're encouraged by the fact that this would be one that we would consider an emerging hyperscaler. And we've talked about in the past how the market really driven by AI solutions starting to look like more than just the top five US hyperscalers.

但是，是的，他們過去一直是客戶。但令我們感到鼓舞的是，我們認為這將是一個新興的超大規模企業。我們過去曾討論過，人工智慧解決方案真正驅動的市場開始看起來不僅僅是美國前五名的超大規模企業。

And so I think this is like a first mover of the emerging hyperscalers. But we've been in a good position and we're in a good position with others as well from the standpoint that they've adopted an architecture that deploys ADCs.

所以我認為這就像是新興超大規模企業的先驅。但我們一直處於有利地位，而且從其他公司採用部署 ADC 的架構的角度來看，我們也處於有利地位。

Okay. Bill, good to hear the customer base diversifying. And then you talked a little bit about the opportunity as racks densify, if you would, and being able to handle closer racks and shorter reach. Can you just give us some sense of metrics and kind of the cooling technology, maybe the hopper to black well transition that makes that possible and some of the metrics to think about in terms of how the TAM increases for you guys?

好的。比爾，很高興聽到客戶群多樣化。然後您談到了機架密集化帶來的機會（如果您願意的話），以及能夠處理更近的機架和更短的距離。您能否給我們一些關於冷卻技術的指標和類型的信息，也許是使這成為可能的料斗到黑井的過渡，以及一些可以考慮如何為您們增加 TAM 的指標？

Yeah. Sure. I think we've all seen what leading edge solutions look like and the increase in densities that you're seeing just with that transition that you mentioned. But I think from our perspective, this is really going to be a customer-by-customer architecture decision.

是的。當然。我想我們都已經看到了前沿解決方案的樣子，以及您在提到的轉變中所看到的密度的增加。但我認為從我們的角度來看，這其實是逐一客戶的架構決策。

But theoretically, we could see the channel expanding within a customer if they deploy a solution that implement direct to rack ADCs, we can see a doubling in TAM easily when we look at it from that perspective.

但從理論上講，如果客戶部署直接實施機架 ADC 的解決方案，我們可以看到客戶內部的通路擴展，從這個角度來看，我們可以輕鬆看到 TAM 翻倍。

Matt Ramsay, TD Cowen.

馬特·拉姆齊，TD·考恩。

It's actually Sean [Alahli] on here for Matt, and he sends his regards, but we'll get to that later. I wanted to ask a quick question on the optical DSP sort of product engagement. You mentioned the module maker, which sounds like a really positive momentum there.

實際上是 Sean [Alahli] 來接 Matt 的，他向我們致以問候，但我們稍後再談。我想問一個關於光學 DSP 類產品參與度的簡單問題。您提到了模組製造商，這聽起來確實是一個非常積極的勢頭。

But is this my naivety or should I be surprised that there's not more sort of connectivity between you guys and the hyperscaler customers themselves on the optical DSP solutions given you have the relationships at the AEC level, and it's such an important power level conversation. Is there any engagement on the hyperscaler side that's kind of helping you maybe get pulled into some of these module maker designs?

但這是我的天真還是我應該感到驚訝的是，鑑於你們在AEC 級別上有關係，你們和超大規模客戶本身在光學DSP 解決方案上沒有更多類型的連接，而且這是一個如此重要的功率級別對話。超大規模廠商方面是否有任何參與可以幫助您參與其中一些模組製造商的設計？

Absolutely. Yeah, we've talked about this in the past that this is a market that's a bit unique in a sense that if you only engage with the optical module manufacturers, you really aren't guaranteed anything. And so we've had a multiyear effort in working directly with hyperscalers, and we've been successful with some of them and even doing a joint development program where they specify the DSP that is to be used.

絕對地。是的，我們過去已經討論過這一點，從某種意義上說，這是一個有點獨特的市場，如果你只與光模組製造商合作，你真的沒有任何保證。因此，我們與超大規模企業直接合作進行了多年的努力，並且與其中一些企業取得了成功，甚至還開展了一項聯合開發計劃，他們指定了要使用的 DSP。

But this is really an ongoing effort it's really a three-party conversation between hyperscalers, module makers and credo. And so that's very much part of our strategy. And from the standpoint of breaking it down actually on a weekly basis internally, we break it down per hyperscaler as it matches up with module makers. So it's is a very focused strategy that we've got.

但這確實是一項持續的努力，它實際上是超大規模廠商、模組製造商和信條之間的三方對話。所以這是我們策略的重要組成部分。從內部每週實際分解的角度來看，我們根據與模組製造商相符的每個超大規模廠商進行分解。所以這是我們的一個非常有針對性的策略。

Got you. That's really helpful. And then just one clarification on the IP license revenue. I think last quarter, you had mentioned that you expected that to come in sort of at the higher end of the long-term or the long-term model, but license revenue obviously is lumpy and came in a little lower this quarter. Is that still your expectation for the full year? Or are we just thinking about it incorrectly?

明白你了。這真的很有幫助。然後只是對 IP 授權收入進行一項澄清。我想上個季度，您曾提到您預計這將在長期或長期模型的高端出現，但許可收入顯然不穩定，並且本季度略有下降。這仍然是您對全年的期望嗎？或者我們只是錯誤地思考了這個問題？

Yeah. For the full year, our expectation hasn't changed. So we expect it to be in that long-term range of 10% to 15% for the full year. And you're right in that it was lighter than expected at only 4%. And as the quarter evolved, it was offset by strong turns bookings within the quarter. to offset the lightness.

是的。全年來看，我們的預期沒有改變。因此，我們預計全年成長率將保持在 10% 至 15% 的長期範圍內。你說得對，它比預期的要輕，只有 4%。隨著本季的發展，該季度的強勁訂單量抵消了這一影響。以抵消亮度。

But you're thinking about it right. As you say, it's very hard to -- it's hard for us to forecast IP in 90-day increments, but we do have confidence over a longer period of time by fiscal year '25, that will be within that range of 10% to 15%.

但你的想法是對的。正如您所說，我們很難以 90 天的增量來預測智慧財產權，但我們確實有信心在 25 財年的更長一段時間內，這一增長將在 10% 到 10% 的範圍內。 。

Karl Ackerman, BNP Paribas.

卡爾‧阿克曼，法國巴黎銀行。

First off, I wanted to discuss how active couple cables have received a lot of attention recently which use a redriver instead of retimer that's used in active electrical cables. Each, of course, has their own trade-offs. But do you view these applications catalystic to each other?

首先，我想討論一下有源耦合電纜最近如何受到廣泛關注，它使用重驅動器而不是有源電纜中使用的重定時器。當然，每個人都有自己的權衡。但您認為這些應用程式會相互促進嗎？

Or is the market opportunity for passive copper cable is large enough for both applications. And as you address that question, how am I using an AEC with a half time DSP improve the powering cost between perhaps active electrical and active copper cables. And I have a follow-up. Thank you.

或者無源銅纜的市場機會對於這兩種應用來說都足夠大。當您解決這個問題時，我如何使用帶有半時 DSP 的 AEC 來改善主動電氣電纜和有源銅纜之間的供電成本。我有一個後續行動。謝謝。

Yeah. So we see the market for passive copper as well as what you referred to as active or ACC or what we refer to as amplified solutions. We see the market for both of those not being big, long term. As it relates to some of the references in the market to ACC.

是的。因此，我們看到了無源銅市場以及您所說的主動或 ACC 或我們所說的放大解決方案的市場。我們認為這兩者的市場都不是很大、長期的。因為它涉及市場上對 ACC 的一些參考。

I think that's really been driven by NVIDIA's strategy. And so it's really not something that I would say is a broad market type of opportunity. And even with the introductions that they've made in the past three to six months, I think it's questionable as to what role ACCs will play or amplified solutions will play. The key is that we don't see anybody in kind of the rest of the market. meaning hyperscalers that are looking at building their own ecosystems. We don't see really anybody considering those solutions.

我認為這確實是由 NVIDIA 的策略所推動的。因此，我認為這確實不是一個廣闊的市場類型的機會。即使他們在過去三到六個月中進行了介紹，我認為 ACC 將發揮什麼作用或放大的解決方案將發揮什麼作用仍然值得懷疑。關鍵是我們沒有看到任何人與市場的其他部分類似。意味著正在考慮建立自己的生態系統的超大規模企業。我們沒有看到真正有人考慮這些解決方案。

And the reason is because really not following industry standards at this point. And so when we talk about interoperability and we talk about basically things like signal integrity, having the AEC or the fully retimed fully equalized solution, that's really the way you deliver the kind of the kind of interoperability, the performance that would be expected.

原因是因為此時確實沒有遵循業界標準。因此，當我們談論互通性時，我們談論的基本上是訊號完整性、AEC 或完全重定時完全均衡解決方案等內容，這實際上是您提供互通性和預期效能的方式。

And so that's where we really haven't seen any competition and that's globally really, especially at the 100 gig per lane level. As it gets to 200 gig per lane, 1.6, I think it plays even a smaller role. And that I think generally in the market, the game is over. fully retimed AECs are really the choice by the broad market.

因此，這就是我們確實沒有看到任何競爭的地方，而且這確實是全球性的，尤其是在每通道 100 場演出的水平上。當它達到每通道 200 gig（1.6）時，我認為它的作用甚至更小。我認為一般來說，在市場上，遊戲已經結束了。完全重定時的AEC確實是廣大市場的選擇。

And when I refer to the fact, that's really the only solution that's being considered by many of the customers that we talk to. And so we can kind of go down the path of doing LRO for AECs that has not really been a priority for the customer base just because the power levels we're delivering are meeting the objectives. But the opportunity would exist in the future if that becomes a priority amongst our customers.

當我提到這一事實時，這確實是我們交談過的許多客戶正在考慮的唯一解決方案。因此，我們可以沿著為 AEC 進行 LRO 的道路前進，這並不是客戶群的真正優先事項，只是因為我們提供的功率等級滿足了目標。但如果這成為我們客戶的優先事項，那麼未來就會存在機會。

Yeah. Very clear. I wanted to focus back on licensing revenue. I know it's hard to predict, but is there a seasonality component to the consumer USB licensing revenue? And I guess more importantly, has your view changed at all on the licensing revenue being towards the 10% to 15% of your fiscal year revenue in fiscal '25, and perhaps obviously look for fiscal '26.

是的。非常清楚。我想重新專注於授權收入。我知道這很難預測，但是消費者 USB 授權收入是否有季節性因素？我想更重要的是，您對 25 財年許可收入佔您財年收入的 10% 到 15% 的看法是否發生了根本變化，也許顯然會期待 26 財年。

I would say we've not witnessed any sort of seasonality with IP revenue. In fact, if you look at the last five quarters, it goes each quarter is quite different than the last in terms of revenue mix or revenue contribution in total.

我想說的是，我們還沒有看到知識產權收入出現任何季節性。事實上，如果你看看過去五個季度，你會發現每季的收入結構或總收入貢獻都與上一個季度有很大不同。

So it's really difficult to draw too many conclusions from that. Again, we as we've said in the past, we view IP as a very strategic imperative for us where we're not were not incentivized to chase low-value deals. We want to make sure that we get a good ROI on all the IP that we sell, and we win where power tends to be an overriding future that's required in a solution.

因此，很難從中得出太多結論。再次強調，正如我們過去所說，我們認為智慧財產權對我們來說是非常重要的策略要務，但我們沒有動力去追求低價值交易。我們希望確保我們銷售的所有智慧財產權都能獲得良好的投資回報率，並且在解決方案所需的權力往往成為壓倒​​一切的未來的地方，我們會獲勝。

So it's tough to predict quarter-to-quarter, as we all know, longer term, we stated 10% to 15%. We think that will be that way this year. Next year, we haven't talked about, but I would expect that would be the case as well. Longer term, when we're talking about much bigger shipments to customers with products, ultimately, that will probably -- we'll reset that expectation probably lower in the future, maybe FY '27 and beyond.

所以很難按季度進行預測，眾所周知，從長期來看，我們說是 10% 到 15%。我們認為今年也會如此。明年，我們還沒有談論過，但我預計情況也會如此。從長遠來看，當我們談論向客戶提供更大的產品出貨量時，最終，我們可能會在未來（也許是 27 財年及以後）將這一預期重新設定得更低。

Thomas O'Malley, Barclays.

托馬斯·奧馬利，巴克萊銀行。

This one is for Dan. I just want to be a little bit more specific on a question that's kind of come up a couple of times here. So in the July quarter, product came in much better and licensing came in much lower. Could you just describe first what drove that product uptick? And also, if you look at the gross margins, they were much better as well. I know you said volume on the call, but I'd be surprised if volume drove all of that.

這是給丹的。我只是想更具體地回答一個在這裡出現過幾次的問題。因此，在七月季度，產品的表現要好得多，而許可的表現要低得多。您能否先描述一下推動該產品成長的因素？而且，如果你看看毛利率，你會發現它們也好得多。我知道你在電話會議上提到了音量，但如果音量推動了這一切，我會感到驚訝。

And then -- looking into the October quarter guidance, like is your assumption that IP goes back to that kind of $10 million a quarter range just because that obviously matters for what product does in a quarter. I think that's what people are trying to figure out. So both of those would be super helpful.

然後，看看 10 月份的季度指導，你會假設 IP 會回到每季 1000 萬美元的範圍，因為這顯然對產品在一個季度的表現很重要。我認為這就是人們正在試圖弄清楚的問題。所以這兩者都會非常有幫助。

Yeah. So as far as product being a little stronger than normal, it's ordinary that we have some amount of turns bookings, so they came in stronger than we would have expected entering the quarter. So -- and there's nothing really unanticipated or to talk about in terms of what it was versus what we've already talked about.

是的。因此，就產品比正常情況稍強一點而言，我們有一定數量的輪次預訂是很正常的，因此它們的表現比我們進入本季度的預期要強。因此，與我們已經討論過的內容相比，沒有什麼真正出乎意料或可討論的。

Our largest AEC hyperscale customer contributed very significantly to the quarter. And we expect them to really drive the ramp throughout the fiscal year. So maybe I could talk about gross margin impact as well since you mentioned that expansion of gross margin at the product level.

我們最大的 AEC 超大規模客戶為本季做出了巨大貢獻。我們預計他們將真正推動整個財年的成長。既然您提到了產品層面毛利率的擴張，或許我也可以談談毛利率的影響。

So that's kind of -- from my perspective, that's one of the really the headlines for Q1 are one of the key takeaways. If you look at product gross margin excluding product engineering services, it was up over 900 basis points sequentially to 59.6%.

因此，從我的角度來看，這是第一季的真正頭條新聞之一，也是關鍵要點之一。如果你看看不包括產品工程服務的產品毛利率，你會發現它比上一季增加了 900 個基點，達到 59.6%。

So recall, though, for last quarter, we had mentioned that we had some onetime reserves in our Q4 number. So that lowered the product gross margin in Q4 a bit. But we're very happy in Q1 with the excellent progress we've made toward our long-term gross margin expectation of 63% to 65%, which has not changed. So -- and as I've mentioned in the past, our long-term model, that you saw for the IP portion being 10% to 15% versus product, that means the product gross margin used to be right around 60%.

不過，回想一下，在上個季度，我們曾提到我們在第四季的數據中有一些一次性儲備。這使得第四季的產品毛利率略有下降。但我們對第一季感到非常高興，因為我們在實現 63% 至 65% 的長期毛利率預期方面取得了巨大進展，這一目標沒有改變。因此，正如我過去提到的，在我們的長期模型中，智慧財產權部分佔產品的 10% 到 15%，這意味著產品毛利率曾經約為 60%。

So we're -- in Q1, we were already in that same ZIP code. So throughout FY '25, we expect to see some quarterly fluctuations you might see. But it really is -- it's driven by scale. There's, of course, some product mix impact as well. But the overarching impact of improving margins this year thematically is improving scale. And was the sequential increase from Q4 to Q1 in terms of product shipments. So you do gain a lot of scale in that when that occurs.

所以，在第一季度，我們已經處於相同的郵遞區號。因此，在整個 25 財年，我們預計您可能會看到一些季度波動。但事實確實如此——它是由規模驅動的。當然，還有一些產品組合的影響。但今年利潤率提高的首要影響是擴大規模。從第四季到第一季度，產品出貨量較上季成長。因此，當這種情況發生時，你確實會獲得很大的規模。

And then just the second part about your expectations embedded in the guidance. You're kind of saying 10% to 15% for the year still obviously lighter in Q1, so you would expect some acceleration. But just what is your expectation for October?

然後是關於指南中包含的您的期望的第二部分。你的意思是說，今年第一季的成長率仍然明顯較低，為 10% 到 15%，因此你預計會出現一些加速。但您對 10 月的期望是什麼？

Yeah. So for October for IP, you might expect it to be a slightly larger contributor to revenue than it was in terms of revenue mix than Q1. But as you saw in Q1, one of the important takeaways is in order to achieve our gross margin targets that we set out in Q2, we don't need an oversized contribution of IP that's not critical for us to achieve the gross margin goals. We expect IP to contribute modestly more to our revenue mix in the quarter Q2 than it did in Q1.

是的。因此，對於 10 月的 IP，您可能會預期其對營收的貢獻將略大於第一季的營收組合。但正如您在第一季所看到的，重要的要點之一是為了實現我們在第二季度設定的毛利率目標，我們不需要知識產權的過大貢獻，這對我們實現毛利率目標並不重要。我們預計第二季知識產權對我們收入組合的貢獻將略高於第一季。

Quinn Bolton, Needham.

奎因·博爾頓，李約瑟。

Congratulations on the nice results and outlook. I guess, Dan, maybe to beat on the gross margin here a little bit. would you expect product margins to decline in the October quarter? Because I'm struggling to sort of see why margins wouldn't be at least at the high end of your 62% to 64% range if product gross margin is flat and IP is a slightly higher percentage of the mix in the October quarter?

恭喜您取得了良好的成果和前景。丹，我想也許可以稍微提高一下毛利率。您預計十月季度的產品利潤率會下降嗎？因為我很難理解為什麼如果產品毛利率持平並且智慧財產權在 10 月季度的組合中所佔的百分比略高，那麼利潤率不會至少達到 62% 至 64% 範圍的高端？

It's -- I understand where you're coming at for that question. The one thing I'll say is everything is not always linear for us. We had quite a big step-up in gross margin percentage in Q1. We've proven over the course of time, it's not always linear.

我明白你問這個問題的目的。我要說的一件事是，一切對我們來說並不總是線性的。第一季我們的毛利率有了相當大的提升。隨著時間的推移，我們已經證明，它並不總是線性的。

We don't have a specific expectation that it will decline or decline by much. But we remain over -- our overarching theme is to remain conservative in the way we look at things and guide things. So Hopefully, that helps you a little bit.

我們並沒有具體預期它會下降或下降幅度很大。但我們仍然堅持下去——我們的首要主題是在我們看待事物和指導事物的方式上保持保守。希望這對您有一點幫助。

Got it. Yeah, that does. And then just wanted to come back to the license and IP. I think in the script, you mentioned royalty as part of that IP business and I know you had a big consumer license a few years ago that wondering if you could just give us any update on specific royalties that you're looking for as part of that IP revenue stream?

知道了。是的，確實如此。然後只想回到許可證和 IP。我認為在腳本中，您提到版稅是該知識產權業務的一部分，我知道您幾年前擁有大量消費者許可證，想知道您是否可以向我們提供有關您正在尋找的特定版稅的任何最新信息IP 收入來源？

Does royalty become something to call out here at some point over the next year or so? Or do you think most of that IP is from straight licensing of your SerDes like it's been historically?

未來一年左右的某個時候，版稅是否會成為這裡值得呼籲的東西？或者您認為大部分 IP 都像歷史上那樣來自 SerDes 的直接許可？

I think you're right on with the assumptions you're making on the royalty and as it relates to our USB customer. We think that as we think about things going forward, we don't think that's going to be a part of the business that the -- that we look at as kind of material in comparison to licensing revenues themselves.

我認為您對版稅的假設是正確的，因為它與我們的 USB 客戶有關。我們認為，當我們考慮未來的事情時，我們認為這不會成為我們將其視為與許可收入本身相比的材料的業務的一部分。

So we think that the weighting is going to still stay the same in a sense that the bulk of the revenues in this category will come from licenses.

因此，我們認為權重仍將保持不變，因為該類別的大部分收入將來自授權。

Richard Shannon, Craig-Hallum.

理查德·香農，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Maybe a very quick two-parter for Dan here. You called out record product revenues, a record in couplers, but I don't think it was an ACs. Can you declare whether you had a record AC quarter? And then also can you give us the percentages of the two 10% customers as well.

對丹來說，也許這是一個非常快速的兩人合作。您提到創紀錄的產品收入，創紀錄的耦合器，但我認為這不是空調。您能否聲明您的 AC 季度是否有創紀錄？然後您也可以給我們兩個 10% 客戶的百分比嗎？

Yeah. So we did have record product revenue. We don't break out by product line, but you can safely assume that AEC is a large driver of our story for the full year. So that was the most significant [inaudible] turning to 10% customers.

是的。所以我們確實創造了創紀錄的產品收入。我們不會按產品線進行細分，但您可以放心地假設 AEC 是我們全年故事的主要推動力。因此，這是轉向 10% 客戶的最重要的[聽不清楚]。

We had two 10% end customers in Q1, which I have mentioned in they were, in fact, our first two hyperscalers at [inaudible] when our QS file in a day or so. You'll see that our first AEC hyperscale customer remained a 10% customer during Q1 right at 10%. And the second AEC hyperscale customer was our largest customer at -- so we expect that second AEC hyperscaler to continue their meaningful ramp throughout fiscal '25, as we talked about.

我們在第一季有兩個 10% 的最終客戶，我在其中提到過，事實上，當我們在一天左右的 QS 歸檔時，他們是我們的前兩個超大規模客戶 [聽不清楚]。您會看到我們的第一個 AEC 超大規模客戶在第一季仍然是 10% 的客戶，一直保持在 10%。第二個 AEC 超大規模客戶是我們最大的客戶，因此我們預計第二個 AEC 超大規模客戶將在整個 25 財年繼續實現有意義的成長，正如我們所討論的。

Of course, it might not always be a linear ramp. But as Bill mentioned earlier, we expect a new 10% customer in Q2. So even with a meaningful ramp at our second AEC hyperscaler, we expect significant revenue diversification from both a customer and product perspective throughout or throughout the fiscal year as that plays out.

當然，它可能並不總是線性斜坡。但正如 Bill 之前提到的，我們預計第二季將有 10% 的新客戶。因此，即使我們的第二個 AEC 超大規模企業實現了有意義的成長，我們預計整個財年或整個財年從客戶和產品的角度來看，收入將實現顯著多元化。

Okay. Great. And I'll follow up with a question for Bill here. Bill, I'd probably tighten incorrectly here in response to an earlier question here, but you talked about some next-gen AI clusters and racks here kind of moving away from, I think, if I caught you correctly, optics and moving towards the active copper in some manner here.

好的。偉大的。我將在這裡向比爾提出一個問題。比爾，為了回答之前的問題，我可能會錯誤地收緊這裡，但你談到了一些下一代人工智能集群和機架，我想，如果我沒聽錯的話，光學正在轉向光學這裡以某種方式活躍銅。

Maybe you could just maybe delve into that a little bit more? And maybe also comment on whether you think that is a dynamic that can sustain for more than one generation of systems, I can go two or three generations, my suspicion is not, but I'd love to get your comments on that.

也許你可以再深入研究一下？也許也可以評論一下您是否認為這是一種可以維持超過一代系統的動態，我可以持續兩代或三代，我的懷疑不是，但我很想聽聽您對此的評論。

Absolutely. And so when we -- when we work with our customers more and more and really listen to their challenges, one of the big things that stands out is just the quality of ACs compared to solutions that are laser-based optics.

絕對地。因此，當我們越來越多地與客戶合作並真正傾聽他們的挑戰時，最突出的事情之一就是與基於雷射的光學解決方案相比，AC 的品質。

And again, get back to this link flap phenomenon has seen that been seen in clusters, and it's becoming more and more of a topic in the industry. Just to reiterate, if you've got a single connection that fails. And even if it flaps, it just goes down and it comes back up, it can shut down the entire cluster for up to 30 minutes and ultimately measured in dollar terms. $30,000 to $50,000. And so if you have three to five of these episodes per day, it becomes something that you really want to pay attention to.

再次回到集群中出現的鏈路抖動現象，並且它越來越成為業界的一個話題。只是重申一下，如果您有一個連接失敗。即使它發生故障，它也會下降並恢復，它可以關閉整個叢集長達 30 分鐘，最終以美元計算。 30,000 美元至 50,000 美元。因此，如果您每天播放三到五集，那麼它就會成為您真正想要關注的內容。

And so as we as we work with customers, more and more, the focus is becoming on network quality and when we think about ADCs, they just don't have Link labs like laser-based optics have. And so it's -- it's absolutely something that will benefit the AEC TAM long term.

因此，當我們與客戶合作時，我們越來越關注網路質量，當我們考慮 ADC 時，他們只是沒有像基於雷射的光學元件那樣的鏈路實驗室。因此，這絕對會讓 AEC TAM 長期受益。

And so you've got this other factor that's happening where racks are being built in a much more dense fashion. So now there becomes a possibility to network and really connect racks and lean on the very high-quality reliability of AEC products.

因此，當機架以更密集的方式建造時，就會出現另一個因素。因此，現在可以連網並真正連接機架，並依賴 AEC 產品的高品質可靠性。

And so moving to an architecture where they're connecting not just in the rack, but rack to rack, and we're really talking five to seven meters. We're seeing much more activity along these lines. And so again, it's a customer-by-customer driven architecture objective.

因此，轉向一種架構，它們不僅在機架中連接，而且在機架與機架之間連接，我們實際上談論的是五到七公尺。我們看到了更多類似的活動。同樣，這是一個由客戶驅動的架構目標。

But this is something that we see that definitely is encouraging as it relates to kind of a new factor that is driving demand in this direction. I will say that in addition to what we're doing with our AEC family. We're also looking at other system-level solutions that, quite frankly, helped to address some of these areas of feedback that we're hearing.

但我們認為這絕對是令人鼓舞的，因為它涉及一種推動這一方向需求的新因素。除了我們與 AEC 家族所做的事情之外，我還要說這一點。我們也正在研究其他系統級解決方案，坦白說，這些解決方案有助於解決我們聽到的一些回饋領域。

And so our experience in the AC market has taught us a huge amount about these challenges, and we see potential to use this knowledge in the optical space. specifically to enhance AI cluster performance and energy efficiency.

因此，我們在交流市場的經驗讓我們對這些挑戰有了很多了解，我們看到了在光學領域利用這些知識的潛力。特別是為了增強人工智慧集群的效能和能源效率。

And so we've -- you've seen innovations from Credo along the lines of LRO that was specifically for power, but there's other things that we're working on to help improve network quality. And that's not something I'm going to the details about, but within the next, say, nine to 12 months, we'll probably talk more about it as we deliver these solutions to the market.

所以我們——你們已經看到了 Credo 的創新，沿著 LRO 的路線，專門針對電力，但我們正在致力於其他方面來幫助提高網路品質。這不是我要討論的細節，但在接下來的 9 到 12 個月內，我們可能會在向市場提供這些解決方案時更多地討論它。

Tore Svanberg, Stifel Nicolas and Company.

Tore Svanberg、Stifel Nicolas 和公司。

I just had two follow-ups. Bill, as we sort of look at the second half of fiscal '25, the ramps that you're expecting, could you talk a little bit about how broad those ramps are, I'm not talking about by customer here, but I'm thinking more about the different AEC form factors and especially when considering the 400-gig AI AEC back-end network solution that you have been sampling in the last few quarters.

我剛剛進行了兩次後續行動。比爾，當我們關注 25 財年下半年時，您所期望的增長，您能談談這些增長的範圍嗎？ ，尤其是在考慮您在過去幾季中採樣的400 GB AI AEC 後端網路解決方案時。

Sure. So I guess that would relate to our business with Amazon. And we feel good about where we are in the ramp there. As we've said previously, their ramp is expected to drive a significant portion of our growth this year. Dan alluded to the fact that we don't expect it to be a linear ramp quarter-to-quarter, but we do expect them to be our largest customer.

當然。所以我想這可能與我們與亞馬遜的業務有關。我們對自己在坡道上的位置感覺很好。正如我們之前所說，他們的成長預計將推動我們今年的成長。丹提到這樣一個事實，即我們預計不會出現逐季度的線性增長，但我們確實預計他們將成為我們最大的客戶。

With that said, we see increasing demand across the board for our solutions and really from a range of customers that we feel good about in a sense that it will drive diversity over the upcoming quarters through the end of this year and even into fiscal '26.

話雖如此，我們看到對我們解決方案的全面需求不斷增長，而且確實來自我們感覺良好的一系列客戶，從某種意義上說，它將在今年年底之前的未來幾個季度甚至到26 財年推動多元化。

So as we've talked about before, we see Microsoft returning to historical levels. We've talked about a third hyperscaler. That relationship is really progressing, and we expect that they will become a significant customer and really towards the tail end of just the real tail end of fiscal '25, but really into fiscal '26.

正如我們之前談到的，我們看到微軟回到了歷史水平。我們已經討論過第三種超大規模。這種關係正在真正取得進展，我們預計他們將成為重要客戶，並真​​正走向 25 財年的真正尾聲，但真正進入 26 財年。

We've mentioned ADCs continue to gain traction broadly. Optical is going to contribute to that inflection point this year and into '26 as we see that continuing as our fastest growth product line. Even the other product categories, we haven't really spent too much time talking about like Line Card PHYs or series chiplets, in licensing, it's expected that they're going to be a material contributor in our second half and into fiscal '26.

我們已經提到 ADC 繼續受到廣泛關注。光學元件將在今年和 26 年為這一拐點做出貢獻，因為我們認為光學元件將繼續成為我們成長最快的產品線。即使是其他產品類別，我們也沒有真正花太多時間討論像線卡 PHY 或系列小晶片這樣的許可，預計它們將在我們下半年和 26 財年成為重要貢獻者。

And so that really gives you color near term. A lot of the fund that we have in Credo is talking about things that are really outside the topic of these calls, which is really very near-term focused on fiscal '25. We have a lot of fun talking about next-generation solutions that we're developing.

所以這確實會帶給你近期的色彩。我們在 Credo 中擁有的許多基金都在談論真正超出這些電話會議主題的事情，這些電話會議的近期重點實際上是 25 財年。我們很高興談論我們正在開發的下一代解決方案。

There's a lot of energy that we've got around PCIe Gen 6 and Gen 7 and exactly how are we going to add our unique and compelling value to that market. And this idea of continuing to innovate at the system level is something that we're highly engaged on internally at Credo.

我們對 PCIe 第 6 代和第 7 代投入了大量精力，以及我們將如何為該市場增加我們獨特且引人注目的價值。我們在 Credo 內部高度重視這種在系統層面持續創新的想法。

We've had just great experience in the markets that we've pioneered and we're going to continue that. And we expect to really bring meaningful and compelling solutions to the market at again, the system level.

我們在我們所開拓的市場中擁有豐富的經驗，我們將繼續下去。我們期望再次在系統層面為市場帶來真正有意義且引人注目的解決方案。

That's very helpful. Just last question for Dan. Dan, you said that OpEx would grow at half the rate of revenue growth. Is that a specific sort of target for fiscal '25? Or was that more a reference to sort of your long-term financial model?

這非常有幫助。這是丹的最後一個問題。丹，你說營運支出的成長速度是收入成長率的一半。這是 25 財年的具體目標嗎？或者這更多是對您的長期財務模型的參考？

It's related to fiscal '25. And in fact, I mean, it's even embedded in our Q2 guide, right? Revenue at the midpoint is up 11%. Gross margin flat OpEx up 5%. So we expect that year-over-year, fiscal '24 to '25, that will be the case, and it will extend probably into fiscal '26 as well as we attain kind of that long-term operating model. We're -- our operating margin should be in the 30% to 35% range next fiscal year.

這與 25 財年有關。事實上，我的意思是，它甚至嵌入在我們的第二季指南中，對嗎？中間收入成長了 11%。毛利率持平，營運支出成長 5%。因此，我們預計 24 財年至 25 財年將是這種情況，並且可能會延續到 26 財年，並且我們將實現某種長期營運模式。下一財年我們的營業利潤率應該在 30% 到 35% 的範圍內。

Thank you. And there are no further questions at this time. Mr. Brennan, I turn the call back over to you.

謝謝。目前沒有其他問題。布倫南先生，我將電話轉回給您。

Absolutely. Thanks, everybody, for joining. We really appreciate the questions, and we look forward to the call backs. Thanks.

絕對地。謝謝大家的加入。我們非常感謝您提出的問題，並期待您的回電。謝謝。

And with that, this concludes today's conference call. You may now disconnect. Everyone, have a great day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。大家，祝你有美好的一天。