Cohu Inc (COHU) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Cohu's first-quarter 2025 financial results call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Cohu 2025 年第一季財務業績電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference over to Jeff Jones, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給財務長傑夫瓊斯 (Jeff Jones)。請繼續。

Good afternoon, and welcome to our conference call to discuss Cohu's first-quarter 2025 results and second-quarter 2025 outlook. I'm joined today by our President and CEO, Luis Muller. If you need a copy of our earnings release, you may access it from our website at cohu.com or by contacting Cohu Investor Relations. There's also a slide presentation in conjunction with today's call that may be accessed on Cohu's website in the Investor Relations section. Replays of this call will be available via the same page after the call concludes.

下午好，歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 Cohu 2025 年第一季的業績和 2025 年第二季的展望。今天與我一同出席的還有我們的總裁兼執行長路易斯·穆勒 (Luis Muller)。如果您需要我們的收益報告副本，您可以從我們的網站 cohu.com 上獲取，或聯絡 Cohu 投資者關係部門。今天的電話會議還附有幻燈片演示，可在 Cohu 網站的「投資者關係」部分查看。通話結束後，可在同一頁面上重播本次通話。

Now, to the Safe Harbor. During today's call, we will make forward-looking statements reflecting management's current expectations concerning Cohu's future business. These statements are based on current information that we have assessed, but which by its nature is subject to rapid and even abrupt changes. We encourage you to review the forward-looking statement section of the slide presentation and the earnings release, as well as Cohu's filings with the SEC, including the most recently filed Form 10-K and Form 10-Q. Our comments speak only as of today, May 1, 2025, and Cohu assumes no obligation to update these statements for developments occurring after this call.

現在，進入安全港。在今天的電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性陳述，反映管理層對 Cohu 未來業務的當前預期。這些聲明是基於我們評估的當前訊息，但其性質可能會發生快速甚至突然的變化。我們鼓勵您查看投影片簡報和收益發布的前瞻性聲明部分，以及 Cohu 向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件，包括最近提交的 10-K 表格和 10-Q 表格。我們的評論僅代表截至今天（2025 年 5 月 1 日）的觀點，Cohu 不承擔根據本次電話會議後發生的事態發展更新這些聲明的義務。

Finally, during this call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our earnings release and slide presentation for reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures.

最後，在本次電話會議中，我們將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。請參閱我們的收益報告和幻燈片演示，以了解與最具可比性的 GAAP 指標的對帳情況。

Now, I'd like to turn the call over to Luis Mueller, Cohu's President and CEO. Luis?

現在，我想將電話轉給 Cohu 總裁兼執行長 Luis Mueller。路易斯？

Hello, and welcome to our quarterly earnings call. First quarter of 2025 results were in line with guidance, with revenue approximately $97 million and non-GAAP gross margin approximately 44%.

您好，歡迎參加我們的季度財報電話會議。2025 年第一季的業績符合預期，營收約為 9,700 萬美元，非 GAAP 毛利率約為 44%。

As previously announced, we implemented a restructuring program in late February to reduce manufacturing and operating expenses through this year. This program includes some incremental manufacturing transfers to our Asia factories and related expense reductions in the US and Europe. The majority of these will start benefiting the second quarter onwards. Jeff will provide more details as part of our financial results later.

正如先前宣布的那樣，我們在二月底實施了一項重組計劃，以減少今年的製造和營運費用。該計劃包括將部分製造業增量轉移到我們的亞洲工廠，並削減美國和歐洲的相關費用。其中大部分將從第二季度開始受益。傑夫稍後將在我們的財務結果中提供更多詳細資訊。

[Quarter] revenue was split 63% recurring in the balance systems. Systems revenue increased sequentially in automotive and consumer segments, although offset by declines in computing, industrial, and mobile. Estimated test cell utilization at the end of March was down 1 point quarter over quarter to 72%. I won't comment further on utilization at this time as we plan to implement changes going forward that we anticipate will increase accuracy when segmenting utilization by market.

[季度] 收入在平衡系統中被分成 63% 的經常性收入。汽車和消費領域的系統收入持續成長，儘管被計算、工業和行動領域的下滑所抵消。預計 3 月底測試單元利用率將季減 1 個百分點至 72%。我目前不會對利用率發表進一步評論，因為我們計劃在未來實施變革，我們預計這將提高按市場細分利用率的準確性。

On a positive note, recurring orders increased 28% quarter over quarter, demonstrating the value of Cohu's non-capital equipment revenue streams and indicating the possibility of utilization picking up in the coming quarters. Although Cohu factories in Malaysia and the Philippines have been running below nominal capacity, we are starting to selectively add resources to support recent customer requests for fast turn on kits and contractors.

從積極的方面來看，經常性訂單環比增長了 28%，證明了 Cohu 非資本設備收入流的價值，並預示著未來幾季利用率有可能回升。儘管馬來西亞和菲律賓的 Cohu 工廠的產能一直低於正常水平，但我們開始有選擇地增加資源，以支持最近客戶對快速啟動套件和承包商的要求。

On the customer design wins, in the first quarter, we landed three new opportunities for our handlers, including a leading package and task subcontractor in China supporting the local automotive industry. We also won a selection with our Diamondx tester at a European fabless supplier of communications ICs. This Diamondx will ship for production to a test subcontractor in Asia. Additionally, we qualified and received the initial orders for Cohu's power probe cards from a leading European semiconductor company testing silicon carbide IGBT products.

在客戶設計勝利方面，第一季度，我們為處理人員帶來了三個新的機會，其中包括一家支持中國本土汽車行業的領先包裝和任務分包商。我們的 Diamondx 測試器也贏得了一家歐洲無晶圓廠通訊積體電路供應商的青睞。這台 Diamondx 將運往亞洲的一家測試分包商進行生產。此外，我們還獲得了一家領先的歐洲半導體公司對 Cohu 功率探針卡的認證，該公司正在測試碳化矽 IGBT 產品，並獲得了該公司的首批訂單。

On customer expansion, we received a repeat multi-unit order for HBM inspection systems in the first quarter, continuing to increase our penetration in the memory market. We're excited about this opportunity to reposition and expand our vision inspection technology aligned with the growing data center market. Two customers expanded Diamondx application in the quarter, one targeting RF IOT devices and the other gallium nitride high-voltage device test. Several customers expanded the use of our contractors, notably with Cohu's icon interface supporting tasks of high-performance network switches.

在客戶擴展方面，我們在第一季收到了HBM檢測系統的重複多單元訂單，繼續增加我們在記憶體市場的滲透率。我們很高興有機會重新定位和擴展我們的視覺檢測技術，以適應不斷增長的資料中心市場。本季有兩位客戶擴展了 Diamondx 的應用，一個客戶針對 RF IOT 設備，另一個客戶針對氮化鎵高壓設備測試。一些客戶擴大了我們承包商的使用範圍，特別是使用 Cohu 的圖標介面支援高效能網路交換器的任務。

On the software front, this was our first quarter combining the recently acquired Tignis and Cohu's DI-Core predictive maintenance solutions. We have signed three new demonstration opportunities in the quarter to prove the value of our AI process monitoring platform, including with a front-end equipment company, a semiconductor materials supplier, and a US defense military research group. The team has been asked to evaluate multiple applications for AI process monitoring the back-end semiconductor manufacturing, which is an encouraging validation of our strategy to support and expand Cohu's own DI-Core solutions.

在軟體方面，這是我們第一季將最近收購的 Tignis 和 Cohu 的 DI-Core 預測性維護解決方案結合起來。我們在本季度簽署了三個新的演示機會，以證明我們的人工智慧流程監控平台的價值，其中包括與一家前端設備公司、一家半導體材料供應商和一個美國國防軍事研究小組的合作。該團隊已被要求評估用於 AI 流程監控後端半導體製造的多個應用程序，這是對我們支援和擴展 Cohu 自己的 DI-Core 解決方案的策略的令人鼓舞的驗證。

We're optimistic about the business prospects of our design wins, pickup and recurring orders, and expansion into new market segments. The second quarter started with positive momentum from growing customer interest in our systems. And at this moment, we have not seen any meaningful change in customer buying patterns due to tariffs.

我們對設計勝利、提貨和重複訂單以及向新細分市場的擴張的業務前景感到樂觀。第二季開始，客戶對我們系統的興趣日益濃厚，呈現出積極的勢頭。目前，我們還沒有看到客戶購買模式因關稅而發生任何有意義的變化。

Let me now turn it over to Jeff for further details on last quarter results and next quarter guidance. Jeff?

現在，讓我將主題交給傑夫，以了解有關上個季度業績和下個季度指引的更多詳細資訊。傑夫？

Thanks, Luis. Before I walk through the Q1 results and Q2 guidance, please note that my comments that follow all refer to non-GAAP figures. Information about the non-GAAP financial measures, including the GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliations and other disclosures, are included in the accompanying earnings release and investor presentation, which are located on the investor page of our website.

謝謝，路易斯。在我介紹第一季業績和第二季指引之前，請注意，我接下來的評論均涉及非 GAAP 數據。有關非公認會計準則財務指標的資訊（包括公認會計準則與非公認會計準則的調節和其他揭露）包含在隨附的收益報告和投資者介紹中，位於我們網站的投資者頁面上。

Now, turning to the Q1 financial results. Revenue for the quarter was within guidance at $96.8 million. Recurring revenue, which is largely consumable driven and more stable than systems revenue, represented 63% of total revenue in Q1. During the first quarter, one customer in the automotive and industrial market accounted for more than 10% of sales.

現在，我們來看看第一季的財務表現。本季營收達 9,680 萬美元，符合預期。經常性收入主要由消費品驅動，比系統收入更穩定，佔第一季總收入的 63%。第一季度，汽車和工業市場的一位客戶貢獻了超過10%的銷售額。

Q1 gross margin was 44.2% and in line with guidance. Operating expenses for Q1 were slightly lower than guidance at $48.6 million driven by lower labor costs due to the initial restructuring actions announced in late February. Q1 interest income, net of interest expense and a small foreign currency loss was $1.4 million. In Q1, we recorded a tax benefit of $3.6 million, yielding a non-GAAP net loss of approximately $800,000. Non-GAAP EPS for the first quarter was a $0.02 loss.

第一季毛利率為44.2%，符合預期。由於 2 月底宣布的初步重組措施導致勞動成本降低，第一季的營運費用略低於預期 4,860 萬美元。第一季利息收入扣除利息支出和小額外匯損失後為 140 萬美元。第一季度，我們記錄了 360 萬美元的稅收優惠，導致非公認會計準則淨虧損約 80 萬美元。第一季非公認會計準則每股收益虧損 0.02 美元。

Now, moving to the balance sheet. Overall, cash and investments decreased by $61 million during Q1 to $201 million due primarily to $35 million used to acquire Tignis, approximately $9 million used to repurchase 432,000 shares of Cohu common stock and $10 million used in operations. From inception of our share repurchase plan through Q1 2025, we've repurchased approximately 4 million shares for approximately $117 million, leaving approximately $23 million available for us to repurchase additional shares in the future.

現在，轉到資產負債表。總體而言，第一季的現金和投資減少了 6,100 萬美元，至 2.01 億美元，主要原因是 3,500 萬美元用於收購 Tignis，約 900 萬美元用於回購 432,000 股 Cohu 普通股，1,000 萬美元用於營運。從我們實施股票回購計畫到 2025 年第一季度，我們已以約 1.17 億美元回購了約 400 萬股，剩餘約 2,300 萬美元可供我們將來回購更多股票。

Total debt increased in the first quarter by approximately $9 million due to a revolving credit facility used to finance the purchase of our Malacca, Malaysia facility. CapEx of $11 million in Q1 is driven primarily by the Malacca facility purchase of approximately $9 million. Overall, Cohu's balance sheet remains strong, supporting investment opportunities to expand our served markets and technology portfolio in line with our growth strategy and returning capital to shareholders through our share repurchase program.

由於用於融資購買我們位於馬來西亞馬六甲的工廠的循環信貸額度，第一季總債務增加了約 900 萬美元。第一季的資本支出為 1,100 萬美元，主要由於購買了約 900 萬美元的馬六甲工廠。總體而言，Cohu 的資產負債表仍然強勁，支持投資機會以擴大我們的服務市場和技術組合，符合我們的成長策略，並透過我們的股票回購計畫向股東返還資本。

Now, moving to our Q2 outlook. Recent increases in recurring revenue orders and HBM inspection systems are driving a 10% increase in revenue quarter over quarter. We're guiding Q2 revenue to be approximately $106 million plus or minus $7 million. Second-quarter gross margin is forecasted to be approximately 45%, benefiting from Cohu's differentiated products and our stable high margin recurring business, which adds resilience to profitability and provides consistent cash flow through industry cycles.

現在，我們來談談第二季的展望。最近經常性收入訂單和 HBM 檢測系統的增加推動了收入環比增長 10%。我們預計第二季的營收約為 1.06 億美元，上下浮動 700 萬美元。第二季預計毛利率約為 45%，受益於 Cohu 的差異化產品和我們穩定的高利潤率經常性業務，這增加了盈利能力的彈性並在整個行業週期中提供穩定的現金流。

Based on our internal analysis, we do not expect the recently announced tariffs will create a measurable and direct increase in cost of goods sold. Under Cohu's standard shipping terms, the customer is the importer of record and responsible for tariff costs, if any. Additionally, the Cohu supply chain and manufacturing operations are primarily Asia-based and shipping to Asia-based customer facilities, completing the product manufacturing and delivery cycle outside of the US.

根據我們的內部分析，我們預計最近宣布的關稅不會導致銷售成本明顯直接的增加。根據 Cohu 的標準運輸條款，客戶是記錄的進口商，並負責承擔關稅費用（如果有）。此外，Cohu 的供應鏈和製造業務主要位於亞洲，並運送至亞洲的客戶設施，從而完成美國境外的產品製造和交付週期。

Looking back to 2024 with assumptions that US suppliers are sourcing components and parts offshore, we estimate a possible tariff impact to 2024 cost of goods sold could have been approximately $3 million for the entire year. And lastly, our efforts to transition supply chain to minimize impacts of revised US tariff scheme is ongoing.

回顧 2024 年，假設美國供應商從海外採購零件，我們估計關稅對 2024 年全年銷售成本的潛在影響可能約為 300 萬美元。最後，我們正在努力轉變供應鏈，以盡量減少美國修訂關稅計畫的影響。

Q2 operating expenses are forecasted to be approximately $48 million, about $500,000 lower than Q1, realizing increasing cost savings from the mid Q1 restructuring actions. Once the full impact of the restructuring plan has taken effect in the beginning of 2026, we expect quarterly operating expenses to be approximately $47 million per quarter when revenue is approximately $100 million.

預計第二季營運費用約為 4,800 萬美元，比第一季低約 50 萬美元，這得益於第一季中期重組行動帶來的成本節約。一旦重組計劃在 2026 年初全面生效，我們預計當收入約為 1 億美元時，季度營運費用將約為每季 4,700 萬美元。

We're projecting Q2 interest income, net of interest expense, and foreign currency impacts to be approximately $900,000 at current interest rates. The Q2 non-GAAP tax provision is expected to be approximately $1.6 million. The basic share count for Q2 is expected to be approximately 46.7 million shares.

我們預計，以當前利率計算，第二季的利息收入（扣除利息支出和外匯影響）約為 90 萬美元。第二季非公認會計準則稅務準備金預計約 160 萬美元。預計第二季基本股數約4,670萬股。

That concludes our prepared remarks. And now, we'll open the call to questions.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束。現在，我們開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Brian Chin, Stifel.

（操作員指示） Brian Chin，Stifel。

Maybe to start off with when we look at the roughly $9 million revenue increase at the midpoint of the 2Q guidance, how much of that is improvement in recurring revenue versus the shipments for the HBM inspection?

也許首先，當我們看一下第二季指引中期約 900 萬美元的營收成長時，其中有多少是經常性收入的成長，有多少是 HBM 偵測出貨量的增加？

Yeah, it turns out it's about half and half. So half of that quarter-over-quarter increase, half systems, half recurring.

是的，事實證明大約是一半一半。因此，季度環比成長的一半來自系統，一半來自經常性成長。

Got it. And given the multi-unit order for inspection, does that increase the prior $7 million target for the full year? Does that give you more visibility shipping either in the mid-year, maybe even in the second half? And I understand that's mainly been sort of one lead customer. What's the potential, maybe not this year, but potential to add customers beyond your initial customer for that product and application?

知道了。考慮到有多單位的檢查訂單，這是否會增加先前全年 700 萬美元的目標？這是否會讓您在年中甚至下半年對運輸情況有更好的了解？據我了解，這主要是一位主要客戶。潛力有多大？也許不是今年，但有可能為該產品和應用程式增加初始客戶以外的客戶嗎？

Hi, Brian, this is Luis. Yeah, so we're projecting about $8 million of revenue in HBM this year. That's the best view we have at this time. And we have started discussions with a second customer, but it's still at the exploratory phase, so nothing concrete to put a number on. But we certainly expect that revenue to grow going out to 2026. I just don't have a number to put on that at this time.

你好，布萊恩，我是路易斯。是的，我們預計今年 HBM 的營收約為 800 萬美元。這是我們目前看到的最好的景色。我們已經開始與第二位客戶進行討論，但目前仍處於探索階段，因此還沒有具體的數字。但我們確實預計到 2026 年收入將會成長。只是目前我還沒有一個可以給的數字。

Okay, great. Maybe one last question for me here. Yeah, some of your customers have been talking more favorably about maybe some inflection in their shipments, and the way this works, right, that's one part of it, but then there's a matter of absorbing capacity and, et cetera, et cetera, in terms of actually materializing it into some, maybe, capacity equipment that's required from you guys. But you haven't made the commentary about some pickup in the recurring revenue.

好的，太好了。這裡也許還有最後一個問題。是的，你們的一些客戶對他們的出貨量可能出現一些變化持更為樂觀的態度，這是其中的一部分，但還有一個吸收能力的問題，等等，就實際將其具體化為你們所需的一些容量設備而言。但您還沒有對經常性收入的回升做出評論。

Can you maybe discuss how those things might connect a little bit and kind of what that would -- if that suggests any sort of signals around maybe timing on when you could start to see some improved backlog for maybe the equipment side of the business?

您能否討論一下這些事情之間可能會有怎樣的聯繫，以及這會帶來什麼後果——這是否預示著某種信號，也許可以表明何時您能開始看到設備業務方面的積壓訂單有所改善？

Yeah, I mean that's the expectation, right? When we see any a pickup in recurring, we should naturally expect to see an improvement in utilization. So I think we'll be watching pretty closely here in the next quarter to see if utilization levels go up, if it matches the segments that we're seeing the pickup and recurring, and the magnitude of that pickup and utilization. I think that would be more indicative of the trend or confirmation of the trend for when to expect sort of capital equipment demand increases again, right?

是的，我的意思是這就是期望，對嗎？當我們看到任何重複現象的出現時，我們自然應該期望看到利用率的提高。因此，我認為我們將在下個季度密切關注，看看利用率水平是否會上升，是否與我們看到的回升和重複的部分相匹配，以及回升和利用率的幅度。我認為這更能顯示何時預期資本設備需求再次增加的趨勢或確認趨勢，對嗎？

With that said, I think if you look back in history here, this is our first quarter in about 3.5 years now that we're guiding the quarter up year over year. So if you look at Q2 of '24 versus Q2 guidance year of '25, revenue is up sequentially, and the last time that happened was Q3 of '21. So we've got to see a little bit more of utilization pickup like I said, continuation of recurring pickup to call it a solid trend, but it's a positive sign and certainly a noticeable turn of corner.

話雖如此，我想如果回顧歷史，這是我們大約 3.5 年來第一個季度，我們預計本季業績將年增。因此，如果您將 24 年第二季與 25 年第二季的指導年度進行比較，您會發現收入是環比增長的，而上一次發生這種情況是在 21 年第三季。因此，正如我所說，我們必須看到利用率有所回升，持續的回升才能稱之為穩固的趨勢，但這是一個積極的信號，肯定是一個明顯的轉折點。

David Duley, Steelhead Securities.

Steelhead Securities 的 David Duley。

I was wondering what -- in what segments are you seeing the pickup and the reoccurring orders that you mentioned?

我想知道——您在哪些部分看到了您提到的回升和重複訂單？

Hi, Dave. The recurring order pickup is predominantly in the mobile segment.

你好，戴夫。重複訂單提取主要在行動領域進行。

Okay. And is it broad based or is it just really with one or two customers? Or how would you describe the depth of it?

好的。它是否具有廣泛的客戶基礎，還是僅僅針對一兩個客戶？或者你會如何描述它的深度？

In this case, it's actually fairly concentrated, Dave. It's fairly concentrated. I'm just going to leave it at that.

在這種情況下，它實際上相當集中，戴夫。它相當集中。我就不多說了。

Okay. And could you just elaborate a little bit more to one of the comments you made on the power probe card design win for SIC and just talk about how you won that business and what's the opportunity for the revenue stream there? Is this year and next year or what we should expect.

好的。您能否更詳細地闡述一下您對 SIC 功率探針卡設計勝利的評論之一，並談談您如何贏得這項業務以及那裡的收入來源機會是什麼？今年和明年還是我們應該期待的。

Sure. We have introduced this product in second half of '24. It's really aimed at a very high voltage testing at probe where you have the risk of creating an arc between probe tips. And so we have sort of a unique technology, a patent technology on how to enable multi-site testing of high-voltage dye applications, which in this case, is silicon carbide. We had a qualification win, I believe it was at the end of '24. This is our second customer win and there's a third customer that we have right behind this that we're working on at this time.

當然。我們在 2024 年下半年推出了該產品。它實際上針對的是探針上的高電壓測試，在這種情況下，探針尖端之間有產生電弧的風險。因此，我們擁有一種獨特的技術，一種關於如何實現高壓染料應用多站點測試的專利技術，在這種情況下，就是碳化矽。我們獲得了資格賽的勝利，我記得那是在24年底。這是我們贏得的第二個客戶，緊接著我們又贏得了第三個客戶，目前我們正在努力爭取。

Let me check here on your second part of your question. Hang on a second. I think we're looking at this application having -- on this customer win that we had here, this opportunity is about a $2 million a year opportunity. How much is that going to happen this year? Just given timing, qualification, production ramp, I would say definitely a fraction of the $2 million on this one customer. But that's about the size on a per customer base. The other customer that we won, the one that we're working in, they're about similar sizes. So it's sort of a $2 million a year per customer, give or take opportunity.

讓我在這裡檢查一下你問題的第二部分。等一下。我認為我們正在考慮這個應用程式——基於我們在這裡贏得的這個客戶，這個機會大約是每年 200 萬美元的機會。今年這種情況會發生多少次？僅考慮到時間、資格、產量提升，我可以說這絕對只是這位客戶 200 萬美元的一小部分。但這大約是每個客戶群的規模。我們贏得的另一個客戶，也就是我們正在合作的客戶，他們的規模也差不多。因此，這相當於每位客戶每年 200 萬美元，或多或少有機會。

Okay. And then, finally for me is one of your other prepared remarks about winning some handler business in China. Could you elaborate what that represents and is that market share wins? Or how would you describe this and what's the application? Thanks.

好的。最後，對我來說，這是您準備好的另一條關於在中國贏得一些處理業務的評論。能詳細說明一下這代表什麼嗎？這是否意味著市場佔有率的勝利？或者您會如何描述這一點以及其應用是什麼？謝謝。

Sure. Yeah. It's a fabless customer in China in the automotive space. They're outsourcing it obviously to a test house also in China. We have, over time, actually captured a small number of start-up fabless companies in China. This is viewed as small at this time. But if I extract and I go beyond this particular customer, all -- the collection of all design wins I talked about for Q1, we tally it as $6.5 million of orders that we got that we expect to ship throughout this year with a potential total revenue of $18 million a year. That's estimated, obviously, that's not in-hand PO. The in-hand POs are the $6.5 million. And that's the collection of all design wins, this is not the China-specific customer that you have asked.

當然。是的。這是中國汽車領域的無晶圓廠客戶。顯然，他們也將其外包給了中國的測試機構。隨著時間的推移，我們實際上已經佔領了中國少數幾家新創的無晶圓廠公司。目前看來，這還不算什麼。但是，如果我提取並超越這個特定的客戶，那麼所有 - 我在第一季度談到的所有設計勝利的集合，我們將其計算為我們獲得的訂單總額為 650 萬美元，我們預計今年全年將發貨，潛在的總收入為每年 1800 萬美元。這是估計的，顯然，這不是手上的採購訂單。手頭上的採購訂單為 650 萬美元。這就是所有設計勝利的集合，這不是您所問的針對中國的特定客戶。

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯 (Craig Ellis)，B. Riley 證券。

Congratulations on seeing the nice upturn in recurring orders. Luis, I was hoping we could just spend a little time looking beyond 2Q and what is a nice guide and, to your point, the first in a long time that's up year on year. As you talk to your customers across your different and markets on both the systems and the recurring side of the business, how are they thinking about their needs for systems and recurring products in the back half of the calendar year? Are they thinking that we'll need to see a step up in system deployment as we go into 3Q and recurring in 4Q with a more seasonal 4Q off of that? Or what kind of indication are they giving you and what are they telling you to get ready for in your production facilities beyond the current 2Q?

恭喜您看到重複訂單數量大幅上升。路易斯，我希望我們可以花一點時間回顧一下第二季度之後的情況，看看哪些數據是好的指導數據，以及正如你所說，這是很長一段時間以來首次同比增長。當您與不同市場的客戶就係統和業務的經常性方面進行交談時，他們如何看待下半年對系統和經常性產品的需求？他們是否認為，隨著我們進入第三季度，我們需要看到系統部署的提升，並在第四季度再次出現，並且第四季度的季節性更強？或者他們給了你什麼樣的暗示，以及他們告訴你在當前第二季之後要為生產設施做好哪些準備？

Yeah, great question, Craig. I'd say two things. First of all, and I said this in my prepared remarks, we started the second quarter with a positive momentum. We have seen really a pickup in interest in systems -- in our systems and system orders. With that said, I think we're all in this space a little cautious right now and trying to understand. Look, we haven't really seen any meaningful change in customer buying pattern due to tariffs. With that said, I think we're cautious and we want to remain cautious and not get ahead of ourselves.

是的，克雷格，這個問題問得很好。我想說兩件事。首先，我在準備好的發言中說過，我們以積極的勢頭開始了第二季。我們確實看到人們對系統——我們的系統和系統訂單——的興趣增加。話雖如此，我認為我們現在都對這個領域有些謹慎，並試圖理解。看起來，我們並沒有真正看到由於關稅而導致的客戶購買模式發生任何有意義的變化。話雖如此，我認為我們是謹慎的，我們希望保持謹慎，不要操之過急。

So we're not going to say a ton about third quarter and beyond other than to say we still expect this to be a year-over-year growth year for COHU. And at this point, we feel that consensus estimates for us are in a good place for the second half of the year, and we're going to leave it at that until we gain more visibility into what's happening.

因此，我們不會過多地談論第三季度及以後的情況，但我們仍然預計今年將是 COHU 同比增長的一年。目前，我們認為，對於今年下半年的預期是好的，我們將保持這種預期，直到我們對正在發生的事情有更清晰的了解。

I might also add that our lead times for our systems are still, except for the exception of a couple of specific configurations, are within a quarter. And so, customers generally aren't, I don't know, showing their hand more or less more than one quarter at a time here.

我還要補充一點，除了幾個特定配置外，我們系統的交付週期仍然在一個季度之內。所以，我不知道，顧客通常不會在這裡一次展示超過四分之一的牌。

That's helpful, guys. And then the follow up question goes back to the point you made about monitoring industry utilization, Luis, and I won't ask you for numbers. But what I would appreciate better understanding is when you look at the system that was in place that you had, what did you think that was missing? What are you trying to fix and what are you trying to get to in the future? Just help us understand the to and from without all the numbers in between.

夥計們，這很有幫助。然後，後續問題又回到了您關於監控行業利用率的觀點，路易斯，我不會向您詢問數字。但我希望更好地理解的是，當您查看現有的系統時，您認為缺少了什麼？您正在嘗試解決什麼問題以及未來想要實現什麼目標？只要幫助我們理解來往，無需中間的所有數字。

Okay, and I'll give you a couple more data points here, Craig. So as I said, utilization closed the quarter at about 72%, IDMs were about 70%, and OSATs about 73%. What we're trying to refine is the distribution of utilization now down to auto and industrial, computing, mobile, consumer applications. We have a methodology to do it. I think it's a little coarse, and we intend to refine it. We have the means to refine that a little bit better.

好的，克雷格，我在這裡給你更多數據點。正如我所說，本季的利用率約為 72%，IDM 約為 70%，OSAT 約為 73%。我們正在嘗試改進的是利用率的分佈，目前已擴展到汽車和工業、運算、移動、消費應用。我們有方法來實現這一點。我覺得它有點粗糙，我們打算對其進行改進。我們有辦法進一步完善這一點。

I don't know how that's going to be comparable to the prior methodology. We haven't run that through yet entirely. So I'm avoiding breaking down utilization by end market at this time until we get a better handle on the new methodology, but that's not going to affect the total utilization nor utilization by IDMs and OSATs. So I'm comfortable stating that as it is at the end of Q1, and we'll see where that is at the end of Q2. Those are going to be comparable quarter over quarter still.

我不知道這與之前的方法有何可比性。我們還沒有完全完成這一點。因此，在我們更好地掌握新方法之前，我暫時避免按終端市場細分利用率，但這不會影響總體利用率或 IDM 和 OSAT 的利用率。因此，我可以放心地說，這是第一季末的情況，我們將在第二季末看到情況如何。這些數字仍將保持季度與季度之間的可比性。

That's helpful. And then if I could sneak in one more before I go back in the queue. It sounds like the Tingis acquisition is integrating well and that that's on track with your expectations, Luis. Anything else you'd like to say about that and how we should think about the coming next couple quarters and then what might be possible for that business in 2026? Thank you.

這很有幫助。然後，如果我可以在回到隊列之前再偷偷溜進去一次的話。聽起來 Tingis 的收購整合得很好，而且符合您的預期，路易斯。還有什麼想說的嗎？我們該如何看待接下來的幾個季度，以及 2026 年該業務可能會出現什麼情況？謝謝。

Sure, yeah. I mean, so far, only one quarter or less than a quarter behind us, right? We basically have, I think, 10 or 11 weeks of integration at the quarter end because we close it at mid-January. Yeah, it's pretty interesting to see the level of interest from our customers. That business was not necessarily focused on the back end, so what they booked in the first quarter was still things that were in play at the time of the acquisition, so to speak, a front-end company, a material supplier to semiconductor manufacturing, and a research group within the US military.

當然，是的。我的意思是，到目前為止，我們只落後了一個季度或不到一個季度，對嗎？我認為，我們基本上在季度末有 10 或 11 週的時間進行整合，因為我們在 1 月中旬就完成了整合。是的，看到客戶如此感興趣真是令人感興趣。該業務不一定專注於後端，因此他們在第一季預訂的仍然是收購時正在進行的業務，可以說是前端公司、半導體製造的材料供應商和美國軍方內部的研究小組。

But at the same time, in the last quarter, there has been a flurry of requests for meetings all over the globe here. So people have been traveling and holding up interactions with customers in various countries. The activity levels picked up a lot, and we've got to be careful now how much we buy it all at once.

但同時，在過去的一個季度，來自世界各地的會議請求也紛至沓來。因此人們一直在旅行並與各個國家的客戶互動。活動量大幅提高，我們現在必須小心一次性購買多少。

What do you expect for 2026? Well, if this momentum continues, I'm pretty excited about it, but we don't have a number to say. We have to take these activities down to paper plans, specifics, business plans by customer, and then see what we're going to embrace to create numbers that we can peg in more precisely for 2026. So I don't want to get ahead of myself, but it is pretty exciting.

您對 2026 年有何期待？好吧，如果這種勢頭持續下去，我會感到非常興奮，但我們沒有一個數字可以透露。我們必須將這些活動分解成紙本計劃、具體內容和按客戶制定的業務計劃，然後看看我們將採取什麼措施來創建可以更精確地預測 2026 年的數字。所以我不想超越自己，但這確實令人興奮。

Do you think you'd be at that point when we talk again at the end of July or early August, Luis, or would it take longer than that?

路易斯，你認為當我們在七月底或八月初再次談話時，你會達到那個程度嗎，還是會花更長的時間？

I would give it about another six months, Craig. I'm expecting more towards the Q3 earnings time frame to be discussing numbers for software. Okay.

克雷格，我還會再等六個月。我預計在第三季財報期間將有更多關於軟體數據的討論。好的。

So maybe around SEMICON West.

也許是在 SEMICON West 附近。

Charles Shi, Needham.

查爾斯·施，尼德漢姆。

I want to go back to the recurring order, the pickup. Sounds like it's predominantly mobile and fairly concentrated to a small number of customers. Want to ask you. How do you think about the sustainability of the recurring revenue or order going from here? And let's say, going another few quarters? Because if I think if this were in a normal environment, we would definitely look at this as possibly a leading indicator of a very, very positive, maybe cyclical recovery, for at least the mobile segment, but we're not quite in a kind of environment right now.

我想回到重複訂單，即取貨。聽起來它主要是移動的並且相當集中於少數客戶。想問你。您如何看待今後經常性收入或訂單的可持續性？那麼，再過幾個季度呢？因為如果我認為這是在正常環境下，我們肯定會將其視為一個非常積極的、可能是周期性復甦的領先指標，至少對於移動領域而言，但我們目前還沒有處於這種環境中。

There has been lots of debate on whether the demand is real or is it the tariff-related pull-ins. I know for you guys, as an equipment supplier, multiple degrees away from the end market, that's probably harder for you guys to really find evidence one way or the other. But want to get your thoughts on how do you think about the sustainability and what this actually means. And maybe more at a more micro level, what do you think this mobile customer is trying to do here? Thank you.

關於這種需求是真實存在的還是只是關稅相關的拉動，有許多爭論。我知道，對你們來說，作為設備供應商，距離終端市場有多個層次，因此你們可能很難以任何方式真正找到證據。但我想聽聽您對永續性的看法以及這實際上意味著什麼。也許從更微觀的層面來看，您認為這位行動客戶在這裡試圖做什麼？謝謝。

Well, multiple answers or multiple questions here, Charles. The sustainability, right? In mobile, what I would expect here to happen is once we ship these recurring orders that we would see a pickup in the mobile market utilization quarter over quarter. That's my expectation. Following that, I would expect an increasing system orders in mobile that will probably translate into revenue here in the coming quarter, say Q3 and beyond. That would be sort of a trend of sustainability in the mobile market. And I feel like that's actually quite doable.

嗯，查爾斯，這裡有多個答案或多個問題。可持續性，對嗎？在行動領域，我預計一旦我們發出這些定期訂單，我們就會看到行動市場利用率逐季度回升。這是我的期望。接下來，我預計行動系統訂單將會增加，這可能會轉化為下一季（例如第三季及以後）的收入。這將成為行動市場的一種永續趨勢。我覺得這其實是相當可行的。

If you talk recurring more broadly, we would have to see the same happen across auto, industrial, consumer segments to be able to speak to the same trend. I don't see that quite yet, Charles. I see it more in mobile, and we have been talking here for the last couple quarters that we would expect mobile to be the leading market for us and the general volume market followed by industrial and then later on followed by automotive. I still believe that that's the sequence and what we're seeing right now is in mobile.

如果更廣泛地談論重複，我們必須看到汽車、工業、消費領域也發生同樣的情況，才能說明同樣的趨勢。我還沒有看到這一點，查爾斯。我看到行動領域的情況更多，過去幾季我們一直在談論，我們預計行動市場將成為我們的主導市場，其次是一般批量市場，然後是工業市場，然後是汽車市場。我仍然相信這就是序列，我們現在看到的是在移動領域。

As far as tariff pull in, your question about tariff pull in, I really don't believe this is a tariff pull in because if you just look at the window of time that everybody has against the sort of the current exemptions and tariff rates to supposedly change back up again to a higher level and the timing of shipments of these recurrings, I have a hard time believing that they can actually make any meaningful change until sort of midsummer time.

至於關稅拉動，你問的關稅拉動，我真的不相信這是關稅拉動，因為如果你只看每個人相對於當前豁免和關稅稅率的時間窗口，據說這些豁免和關稅稅率會再次改變到更高的水平，以及這些重複貨物的裝運時間，我很難相信他們實際上可以在仲夏之前做出任何有意義的改變。

Got it. So it sounds like for other verticals, you have auto industrial or consumer computing, similar behavior hasn't really been seen by you guys so far. So maybe let me ask from the other way. For the remainder of the year, I mean, you kind of gave some color about the Q2, right? The incremental dollar, revenue dollar, half of that is from system, half of that is from recurring.

知道了。因此聽起來對於其他垂直行業，例如汽車工業或消費計算，到目前為止你們還沒有看到類似的行為。所以也許我可以換個方式問。對於今年剩餘的時間，我的意思是，您對第二季的情況有所了解，對嗎？增量美元、收入美元，一半來自系統，一半來自經常性收入。

Sounds like you're holding, maybe shift -- the mix of the recurring will come down slightly, mix of system come up slightly. But for the remainder of the year, what's your best guess based on the trend right now? Where the system versus recurring revenue as a percentage of the mix could be as we go into the second half of the year? Thank you.

聽起來你正在堅持，也許轉變——重複的混合會略微下降，系統的混合會略微上升。但對於今年剩餘時間的情況，根據目前的趨勢，您最好的猜測是什麼？進入下半年，系統收入與經常性收入佔總收入的百分比會是多少？謝謝。

Yeah. At this point, hard to tell. But as we go into the second half of the year, it's likely to be close to the 60/40 relationship where it's not too far from that today, 63/37, 63% being recurring. So it's probably going to maintain somewhere close to that 60/40 give or take a couple 100 basis points.

是的。目前還很難說。但隨著我們進入下半年，這一比例可能會接近 60/40，與今天的 63/37 比例相差不遠，其中 63% 為經常性比例。因此，它可能會維持在接近 60/40 的水平，並上下浮動幾百個基點。

Robert Mertens, TD Cowen.

羅伯特·梅爾滕斯 (Robert Mertens)，TD Cowen。

This is Robert Mertens on for Krish Sankar. I guess the first one, and I don't want to get too hung up on it because we've touched upon it, but in terms of test sell utilization rates, do you typically see different order patterns between OSATs and IDM customers from a test sell utilization perspective? Does one see their uptake in demand earlier in the cycle or is it sort of based on these end markets that you're exploring and provide more information next quarter?

這是克里什桑卡爾 (Krish Sankar) 的羅伯特梅爾滕斯 (Robert Mertens)。我想是第一個問題，我不想太糾結於此，因為我們已經討論過了，但就測試銷售利用率而言，從測試銷售利用率的角度來看，您通常會看到 OSAT 和 IDM 客戶之間有不同的訂單模式嗎？人們是否在周期早期就看到了其需求的成長，或者這是否基於您正在探索的這些終端市場並在下個季度提供更多資訊？

Hi, Robert. No, uptick in buying is usually dictated by utilization regardless if you're an OSAT or IDM. Nevertheless, through different cycles of the industry, we've noticed that the OSATs tend to drop, utilizations start the down cycle, but it also tend to start the up cycle. That's sort of the general observable trend of past cycles. So the OSATs tend to lead. And that's more because of the sort of the end market exposure that fabless companies are leveraging the OSATs versus the more traditional industrial automotives that have their own factories and tend to be the segments that lag both in a recovery as well as in a downside.

你好，羅伯特。不，無論您是 OSAT 還是 IDM，購買量的增加通常都由利用率決定。然而，透過產業的不同週期，我們注意到 OSAT 趨於下降，利用率開始下降週期，但也趨於開始上升週期。這有點像是過去週期中可觀察到的整體趨勢。因此 OSAT 往往處於領先地位。這更多的是因為無晶圓廠公司利用 OSAT 的終端市場曝光度，而更傳統的工業汽車市場則擁有自己的工廠，並且往往是復甦和衰退中都滯後的領域。

Okay. Got it, that's helpful. And then automotive was up substantially in the March quarter after maybe a year or so of digestion. How should we think about the turnaround in that market? Are you expecting similar strength to continue on the June quarter or really need to see mobility turn around and then auto it might trail after that?

好的。明白了，很有幫助。經過大約一年的消化，汽車銷量在三月季度大幅上漲。我們該如何看待該市場的復甦？您是否預計 6 月季度將繼續保持類似的強勁勢頭，或者真的需要看到流動性好轉，然後汽車行業可能會落後？

Yeah, there's no hard-set rule that mobility -- mobile has to go first and then somebody second, somebody third. That's not a hard fast rule, but I still expect that to be the case here where auto is going to trail. If you look at our customers, the large automotive semiconductor manufacturers, their earnings release, some have called the trough as Q3 of 24, others just called the trough as being this past quarter, Q1 of '25. So there is a general theme here that they're calling somewhere between the last three quarters the trough of the cycle. So we would expect utilization to start creeping up, recurring orders should start picking up as well.

是的，沒有硬性規定說移動性－移動性必須先行，然後是別人，再是別人。這不是一個硬性規定，但我仍然希望在這種情況下汽車能夠落後。如果你看看我們的客戶，大型汽車半導體製造商，他們的收益報告，有些人稱低谷為 24 年第三季度，其他人則稱低谷為上個季度，即 25 年第一季。因此，這裡有一個總體主題，他們把過去三個季度之間的某個時間稱為週期的低谷。因此，我們預期利用率將開始上升，重複訂單也應該開始回升。

The question is at what pace, right? Inventory levels have corrected, although some customers have had an increase to quarter over quarter in Q1 and talking about keeping that flat going over to the next quarter. So I think the auto space has turned the corner, but I don't know yet at what pace it's going to recover, and I would bet at this moment, slowly for now. So that's our expectation at least for the next quarter or two.

問題是以什麼樣的速度，對嗎？庫存水準已經調整，儘管一些客戶第一季的庫存量環比增加，並表示將在下個季度保持持平。因此，我認為汽車產業已經走出了困境，但我還不知道它將以什麼樣的速度復甦，我敢打賭，目前復甦的速度還比較緩慢。這是我們對至少未來一、兩個季度的預期。

Christian Schwab, Craig Hallum.

克里斯蒂安·施瓦布，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Hey, this is Tyler Burmeister on behalf of Christian. Thanks for letting us ask a couple questions here. Maybe first on the restructuring. It looks like after restructuring, we're kind of to a break even on a quarterly revenue run rate in the low hundred millions. I guess, the way you think about that, at these sort of levels, as we see recovery over time, what kind of revenue levels can these sort of expense levels now support in a recovery situation?

嘿，我是代表 Christian 的 Tyler Burmeister。感謝您讓我們在這裡提出幾個問題。也許首先要討論的是重組。看起來，重組之後，我們的季度營收運行率將達到數億美元左右，達到收支平衡。我想，您這樣想，在這種水平上，隨著我們看到隨著時間的推移而復蘇，這種支出水平在復甦情況下可以支持什麼樣的收入水平？

So you're asking from an OpEx standpoint, Tyler?

那麼，泰勒，您是從營運支出的角度來提問的嗎？

Yeah, essentially from an OpEx standpoint.

是的，基本上是從營運支出的角度來看。

Yeah. So after we see full benefit of the restructuring, and if revenue was at this $100 million level, we'd expect OpEx to be around $47 million. And then as that revenue grows, and let's just call out $130 million a quarter, we'd expect OpEx to be about $49 million.

是的。因此，在我們看到重組的全部好處之後，如果收入達到 1 億美元的水平，我們預計營運支出將在 4,700 萬美元左右。然後，隨著收入的增長，假設每季收入為 1.3 億美元，我們預計營運支出將達到 4,900 萬美元左右。

Okay. Alright, understood. Yeah, it may be a little bit of housekeeping on the model, Jeff, on taxes, the benefit in the quarter, I guess a little more color what that was exactly. And then maybe level set us going forward. You said $1.6 million in Q2. Is that what we should kind of be thinking about as kind of a fixed run rate until we see revenue and profitability accelerate from here?

好的。好的，明白了。是的，傑夫，這可能與模型、稅收、本季的收益有關，我想稍微詳細一點，看看那到底是什麼。然後也許水平就會讓我們繼續前進。您說第二季為 160 萬美元。在我們看到收入和獲利能力從現在開始加速之前，我們是否應該將其視為一種固定的運作率？

Yeah. So in the in the first quarter, we did have a non-GAAP tax benefit. We had a tax loss, and we did have a tax benefit of $3.6 million. So based on revenue and the guidance, Q2 is looking like a small profit. But our effective tax rate is high at this sort of breakeven level, if you will. The effective tax rate is a little bit wacky. So the rate becomes in the 90% range of pre-tax book, pre-tax income. So I would carry that 90% into the second half as well. I'll give a guidance update, obviously, on the next call, but that's what I would run with for now.

是的。因此，在第一季度，我們確實獲得了非公認會計準則稅務優惠。我們出現了稅收損失，但確實獲得了 360 萬美元的稅收優惠。因此，根據收入和指導，第二季度看起來有望實現小幅盈利。但如果你願意的話，在這個損益兩平水準下，我們的有效稅率很高。實際稅率有點古怪。因此稅率變成稅前帳面金額、稅前所得的 90% 左右。所以我也會將這 90% 帶入下半年。顯然，我會在下次電話會議上提供指導更新，但這就是我現在所採取的措施。

Perfect, very helpful. And then last one maybe on capital allocation. Cash did come down in the quarter, but still at a pretty substantial level here, I guess. Are we still potentially looking at other kind of strategic tuck-in M&A opportunities out there? Any thought about an accelerated buyback or raising that given the level of the stock price down here? Any commentary on capital location would be great, thanks.

非常完美，非常有幫助。最後一個可能是關於資本配置。我想，本季現金確實有所下降，但仍處於相當可觀的水平。我們是否仍在尋找其他類型的策略性併購機會？鑑於目前的股價水平，您是否考慮過加速回購或提高回購額度？任何關於首都位置的評論都很好，謝謝。

Yeah, you bet, sure. Yeah, the review of the acquisition funnel is sort of within what's in our blood. It's part of our normal process so that the process continues. From a buyback standpoint, our stated goal for 2025 was to offset solution from our equity compensation plans. We were able to do that in the first quarter with the buyback of 432,000 shares. So at least for now, it's a pause on buyback. That obviously could change at a moment's notice, but for now, for Q2 anyway, the posture is pause on the buyback.

是的，確實如此。是的，對收購管道的審查已經融入我們的血液中。這是我們正常流程的一部分，以便流程能夠繼續進行。從回購的角度來看，我們 2025 年的既定目標是透過股權補償計畫來抵銷解決方案。我們在第一季就透過回購 432,000 股股票實現了這一目標。因此至少就目前而言，回購暫時暫停。顯然，這種情況可能隨時改變，但就目前而言，無論如何對於第二季而言，回購的立場是暫停。

That concludes today's question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the call back to Jeff Jones for closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。我想請傑夫瓊斯 (Jeff Jones) 作最後發言。

Thank you. And before we sign off, I'd like to note that we'll be attending the following investor conferences over the next two months, and those conferences are the B. Riley Securities Institutional Investor Conference on May 21 in Los Angeles; the TD Cowen TMT conference on May 28 in New York City; The Stifel Cross Sector conference on June 3 in Boston; and the Baird Consumer and Technology Conference on June 4 in New York City. So if you plan on attending any of these conferences, please reach out to your conference contacts, or let me know, and we'll arrange for an in-person one on one meeting. That's all for today. Thank you again for joining the call, and we look forward to speaking with you soon.

謝謝。在我們結束之前，我想指出，我們將在接下來的兩個月內參加以下投資者會議，這些會議是 5 月 21 日在洛杉磯舉行的 B. Riley Securities 機構投資者會議； 5 月 28 日在紐約市舉行的 TD Cowen TMT 會議；6 月 3 日在波士頓舉行的 Stifel 跨行業會議；以及 6 月 3 日在波士頓和紐約市的 6 月跨行業會議。因此，如果您計劃參加任何這些會議，請聯繫您的會議聯絡人，或讓我知道，我們將安排一對一的面對面會議。今天就到這裡。再次感謝您參加電話會議，我們期待很快與您交談。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。