Cohu Inc (COHU) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day. And thank you for standing by. Welcome to Cohu's third quarter, 2024 financial results conference call at this time. (Operator Instructions)

再會。感謝您的支持。歡迎此時參加 Cohu 2024 年第三季財務業績電話會議。（操作員說明）

Jeff Jones, Chief Financial Officer.

傑夫瓊斯，財務長。

Good afternoon and welcome to our conference call to discuss Cohu's third quarter, 2024 results and fourth quarter outlook. I'm joined today by our President and CEO, Luis Mueller. If you need a copy of our earnings release, you may access it from our website at cohu.com or by contacting Cohu Investor Relations.

下午好，歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 Cohu 第三季、2024 年業績和第四季前景。今天我們的總裁兼執行長路易斯·穆勒 (Luis Mueller) 也加入了我的行列。如果您需要我們的收益發布副本，您可以從我們的網站 cohu.com 或聯絡 Cohu 投資者關係部門存取。

There's also a slide presentation in conjunction with today's call that may be accessed on Cohu's website in the investor relations section. Replays of this call will be available via the same page after the call concludes now to the safe harbor. During today's call, we will make forward-looking statements reflecting management's current expectations concerning Cohu's future business.

今天的電話會議還有一個幻燈片演示，可以在 Cohu 網站的投資者關係部分訪問。通話結束後，您可以透過同一頁面重播本次通話的重播。在今天的電話會議中，我們將做出前瞻性聲明，反映管理層目前對 Cohu 未來業務的預期。

These statements are based on current information that we have assessed, but which by its nature is subject to rapid and even abrupt changes. We encourage you to review the forward-looking statement section of the slide presentation and the earnings release as well as couse filings with the SEC including the most recently filed form 10-K and form 10-Q.

這些陳述是基於我們評估的當前訊息，但其本質可能會發生快速甚至突然的變化。我們鼓勵您查看投影片簡報的前瞻性陳述部分和收益發布以及向 SEC 提交的文件，包括最近提交的表格 10-K 和表格 10-Q。

Our comments speak only as of today, October 31 2024 and Cohu assumes no obligation to update these statements for developments occurring after this call. Finally, during this call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our earnings release and slide presentation for reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures. Now, I'd like to turn the call over to Luis Muller Cohu's President and CEO Luis.

我們的評論僅截至今天（2024 年 10 月 31 日），Cohu 沒有義務就本次電話會議後發生的事態發展更新這些聲明。最後，在本次電話會議中，我們將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。請參閱我們的收益發布和幻燈片演示，以了解與最具可比性的公認會計準則衡量標準的對帳。現在，我想將電話轉給 Luis Muller Cohu 的總裁兼執行長 Luis。

Continuing to demonstrate the resilience of our business model during a market downturn systems revenue increased sequentially in automotive and mobile segments although offset by declines in computing, consumer and industrial the mobile segment was strongest in third quarter at 12% of consolidated revenue. Mobile also posted 13% year over year revenue growth defining a turning point in a segment that was first into this market downturn.

在市場低迷時期，我們的業務模式繼續展現出彈性，汽車和移動領域的系統收入連續增長，儘管被計算、消費和工業領域的下降所抵消，但移動領域在第三季度最為強勁，佔合併收入的12%。行動業務收入年增 13%，為最先陷入市場低迷的細分市場定義了一個轉捩點。

We had a significant test cell design win last quarter at a top five automotive semiconductor manufacturer. With this Wind Cohu is delivering a combined tester handler and interface solution for testing power management devices. We're excited to see traction with our Diamond Act in the mixed signal market and expect to have additional good news in the coming quarters as more customers are evaluating our platform while market conditions remain soft across our primary segments in automotive and industrial.

上個季度，我們在排名前五的汽車半導體製造商中獲得了重大測試單元設計勝利。Wind Cohu 正在為此提供一個組合的測試器處理程序和介面解決方案，用於測試電源管理設備。我們很高興看到我們的《鑽石法案》在混合訊號市場中受到關注，並預計在未來幾季會有更多好消息，因為越來越多的客戶正在評估我們的平台，而我們汽車和工業主要細分市場的市場狀況仍然疲軟。

We're busy realigning our investments to outsized growth opportunities. We made good progress recently entering the memory and silicon carbide power semiconductor markets. Earlier today, we announced a customer order for our neon inspection metrology platform configured for high bandwidth memory also known as HBM.

我們正忙於調整投資以適應巨大的成長機會。我們最近在進入記憶體和碳化矽功率半導體市場方面取得了良好進展。今天早些時候，我們宣布了一項客戶訂單，要求我們的霓虹燈偵測計量平台配置為高頻寬記憶體（也稱為 HBM）。

The HBM market is estimated to be approximately $23 billion today and projected to grow about 22% a year through the end of this decade. We're pleased to have received an initial order from one of the world's leading semiconductor memory manufacturers marking a big strategic win with substantial growth opportunities in the next couple of years.

目前 HBM 市場估計約為 230 億美元，預計到本世紀末每年將以 22% 左右的速度成長。我們很高興收到世界領先的半導體記憶體製造商之一的初始訂單，這標誌著我們取得了重大戰略勝利，並在未來幾年內獲得了巨大的成長機會。

We believe the industry is purchasing approximately $100 million of inspection metrology equipment for this HBM manufacturing process step today and expanding at a fast pace to keep up with AI data center. Demand. Neon offers a highly efficient vision system enabling full 6-sided optical inspection and measurement of micro pillars along with vision optimization powered by Cohu's AI inspection technology.

我們相信，業界目前正在為 HBM 製造流程步驟採購約 1 億美元的偵測計量設備，並快速擴張以跟上 AI 資料中心的步伐。要求。Neon 提供高效的視覺系統，可實現全面的 6 面光學檢查和微柱測量，以及由 Cohu 的 AI 檢測技術提供支援的視覺優化。

We're expecting follow on orders in early 2025 to support a production ramp in the second half of next year. We also announced today that a leading European customer has selected Cohu for high-speed handling and inspection of silicon carbide dies. We have been providing inspection metrology systems to silicon carbide manufacturing now for over a year.

我們預計 2025 年初會有後續訂單，以支持明年下半年的產量成長。我們今天也宣布，一家歐洲領先客戶已選擇 Cohu 進行碳化矽模具的高速處理和檢查。我們為碳化矽製造提供檢測計量系統已有一年多了。

But this solution extends our offering into Burn-in task at the die level. Ou product configuration will significantly improve yield and productivity, eliminating more than 40% losses through burn-in of tested good only dyes. We'll also be supplying a high-power test interface for 2.5 kilovolts tests per die satisfying stringent automotive zero-defect requirements.

但該解決方案將我們的產品擴展到晶片級的老化任務中。Ou 產品配置將顯著提高產量和生產率，消除僅測試良好的染料因老化而造成的 40% 以上損失。我們還將為每個晶片提供 2.5 kV 測試的高功率測試接口，以滿足嚴格的汽車零缺陷要求。

The silicon carbide market is poised to grow at 25% CAGR through 2029 and we're pleased to be an enabler of the next generation of devices coming to market in 2025. Now, turning to our di core software platform, several customers have expressed interest in our data analytics software that is demonstrating yield and productivity gains.

到 2029 年，碳化矽市場預計將以 25% 的複合年增長率成長，我們很高興成為 2025 年上市的下一代設備的推動者。現在，轉向我們的 di core 軟體平台，一些客戶對我們的數據分析軟體表示了興趣，該軟體展示了產量和生產力的提高。

Well, we have validations running at multiple customers in Q3. A key Cohu customer placed orders to expand use of our AI inspection software. This subscription-based software solution optimizes inspection yield through a convolutional neural network machine. In other words, it uses deep learning models to process vision data.

嗯，我們在第三季對多個客戶進行了驗證。Cohu 的一位主要客戶下了訂單，以擴大我們的人工智慧偵測軟體的使用範圍。這種基於訂閱的軟體解決方案透過卷積神經網路機器優化來檢測產量。換句話說，它使用深度學習模型來處理視覺資料。

We're excited to expand Cohu's recurring business with machine learning analytics. Although this is still a small part of our total revenue, the level of customer engagement and interest in our solutions in exceeding our expectations.

我們很高興能夠透過機器學習分析擴展 Cohu 的經常性業務。儘管這仍然只占我們總收入的一小部分，但客戶參與度和對我們解決方案的興趣超出了我們的預期。

Putting this a bit in context, we estimate that the semiconductor back-end manufacturing industry is spending about $600 million in data analytics for process control data visualization, connectivity and predictive applications. These investments are focused on positioning our products to growth applications while also enabling our customers to expand use of factory automation and support on a near shoring semiconductor manufacturing.

結合情境來看，我們估計半導體後端製造業在流程控制資料視覺化、連接和預測應用程式的資料分析上花費了約 6 億美元。這些投資的重點是將我們的產品定位於成長型應用，同時使我們的客戶能夠擴大工廠自動化的使用並支援近岸半導體製造。

We're committing resources to making this a growth vector in our strategy, expanding our recurring revenue with subscription software aligned with our customers' push for what is known as industry 4.0. I'm expecting to see some very exciting years ahead of Cohu as we enter the memory market, expanding silicon carbide applications including burn in and stress test and very importantly build on our analytics platform. Let me now turn it over to Jeff to provide further details on last quarter results and next quarter guidance.

我們正在投入資源，使其成為我們策略中的成長載體，透過與客戶推動所謂的工業 4.0 一致的訂閱軟體來擴大我們的經常性收入。當我們進入內存市場、擴展碳化矽應用（包括老化和壓力測試）以及非常重要的基於我們的分析平台的構建時，我預計 Cohu 將會迎來非常激動人心的幾年。現在讓我將其轉交給傑夫，以提供有關上季度業績和下一季指引的更多詳細資訊。

Thanks Louise. Before I walk through the Q3 results and Q4 guidance, please note that my comments that follow all refer to non-GAAP figures, information about the non-GAAP financial measures including the GAAP to non-GAAP reconciliations and other disclosures are included in the accompanying earnings release and investor presentation which are located on the investor page of our website.

謝謝路易絲。在我詳細介紹第三季度的業績和第四季度的指導之前，請注意，我接下來的評論均指非公認會計原則數據，有關非公認會計原則財務指標的信息，包括公認會計原則與非公認會計原則的調節和其他揭露，均包含在隨附的內容中。

Now turning to the Q3 financial results revenue for the quarter was $95.3 million. And in line with guidance, recurring revenue which is largely consumable driven and more stable than systems revenue represented 67% of total revenue in Q3 during the third quarter, one customer in the automotive market accounted for more than 10% of sales.

現在轉向第三季財務業績，該季度的收入為 9,530 萬美元。根據指引，經常性收入主要由消耗品驅動且比系統收入更穩定，佔第三季總收入的 67%，汽車市場的一個客戶佔銷售額的 10% 以上。

Q3 gross margin was strong at 47.1% and higher than guidance benefiting from some new products. The one time utilization of previously reserved inventory as well as lower manufacturing costs in our interface or contactor business.

第三季毛利率強勁，達 47.1%，高於預期，受益於一些新產品。一次性利用先前保留的庫存並降低我們的介面或接觸器業務的製造成本。

Operating expenses for Q3 were $45.2 million and lower than guidance by approximately $1.6 million driven by lower labour costs due to replacement and new higher delays as well as higher vacation utilization than forecasted.

第三季的營運費用為 4,520 萬美元，比指導值低約 160 萬美元，原因是替換造成的勞動力成本降低、新的延誤率增加以及假期利用率高於預期。

Third quarter, non-GAAP operating income was approximately breakeven and adjusted EBIDA was 2.3% interest income net of interest expense and a foreign currency loss of approximately $1.6 million was $900,000.

第三季度，非 GAAP 營業收入大致達到損益平衡，調整後的 EBIDA 為扣除利息支出後的 2.3% 利息收入，外匯損失約 160 萬美元，即 90 萬美元。

The foreign currency loss was driven by typical balance sheet exposure to foreign currencies in conjunction with the devaluation of the US dollar in Q3. After the Federal Reserve's rate cut announcement, Q3 pre-tax income consists of foreign profits combined with a loss in the US.

外幣損失是由典型的外幣資產負債表曝險以及第三季美元貶值造成的。聯準會宣布降息後，第三季稅前收入由海外利潤加上美國虧損組成。

The Q3 tax provision of $4.4 million reflects tax expense on foreign profits but no tax benefit from the US loss due to our valuation allowance against deferred tax assets. Non-GAAP PPS for the third quarter was an $0.08 loss.

第三季 440 萬美元的稅收撥備反映了海外利潤的稅收支出，但由於我們對遞延稅資產的估值準備金，沒有從美國損失中獲得稅收優惠。第三季非 GAAP PPS 虧損 0.08 美元。

Moving to the balance sheet Overall cash and investments increased by $7 million during Q3 to $269 million due mainly deposit of cash flow from operations of $17 million. Less $8 million used to repurchase 315,000 shares of Cohu's common stock and capital expenditures of $2 million related to our factories in the Philippines and Germany supporting operations for our interface and automation businesses.

轉向資產負債表 第三季度，現金和投資總額增加了 700 萬美元，達到 2.69 億美元，主要是因為營運現金流存入了 1,700 萬美元。減少 800 萬美元用於回購 315,000 股 Cohu 普通股，以及與我們在菲律賓和德國工廠支援介面和自動化業務營運相關的 200 萬美元資本支出。

Overall, Cohu's balance sheet remains strong, supporting investment opportunities to expand our served markets and technology portfolio in line with our growth strategy and returning capital to shareholders through our share repurchase program.

總體而言，Cohu 的資產負債表仍然強勁，支持投資機會，以根據我們的成長策略擴大我們所服務的市場和技術組合，並透過我們的股票回購計畫向股東返還資本。

Now moving to our Q4 outlook, we're guiding Q4 revenue to be in the range of $95 million plus or minus $7 million essentially flat to Q3 as we bounce along the bottom of this cyclical trough. The initial order forecast for Q4 reflects a book to bill ratio over one. And our current view of Q1 revenue is approximately 10% higher than Q4.

現在轉向我們的第四季度展望，我們預計第四季度的收入將在 9500 萬美元上下 700 萬美元的範圍內，與第三季度基本持平，因為我們沿著週期性低谷的底部反彈。第四季的初步訂單預測反映出訂單出貨比超過 1。我們目前對第一季營收的看法比第四季高出約 10%。

4th quarter Gross margin is forecasted to be approximately 44% lower than Q3 but higher than the financial target. Model at this level of revenue due in part to Cohu's differentiated products and our stable high margin recurring business which adds resilience to profitability and provides consistent cash flow through industry cycles.

第四季毛利率預計比第三季低約 44%，但高於財務目標。這種收入水準的模型部分歸功於 Cohu 的差異化產品和我們穩定的高利潤經常性業務，這增加了盈利能力的彈性，並在整個行業週期中提供了一致的現金流。

We expect gross margin to increase again when our revenue recovers with the broader semiconductor device market and with better absorption of our factories', infrastructure operating expenses for Q4 are projected to increase about $1 million quarter-over-quarter to approximately $46 million due to an increase of labour costs as a result of the US dollar weakening in Q3 against many foreign currencies.

我們預計，當我們的收入隨著更廣泛的半導體裝置市場的復甦以及我們工廠的更好吸收而恢復時，毛利率將再次增加，由於第三季美元兌多種外幣走弱導致勞動力成本增加。

As I noted on prior calls, we've taken action throughout 2024 to reduce operating expenses without sacrificing critical new product investments while navigating through the trough of the cycle. Our main focus has been on structural changes, generating permanent cost reduction and leading to projected 2025 operating expenses to be relatively flat compared to 2024.

正如我在之前的電話會議中指出的那樣，我們在 2024 年全年採取行動，在不犧牲關鍵新產品投資的情況下減少營運支出，同時度過週期的低谷。我們的主要重點是結構性變革，實現永久性成本降低，並導致預計 2025 年營運費用與 2024 年相比相對持平。

while supporting a recovery in business and higher revenue. We're projecting Q4 interest income net of interest expense and foreign currency impacts to be approximately $1.8 million at current interest rates. The Q4 non-GAAP tax provision is expected to be approximately $3.1 million because of tax on foreign profits without benefit from the US loss until the markets recover.

同時支援業務復甦和更高的收入。我們預計，以當前利率計算，扣除利息支出和外匯影響後的第四季利息收入約為 180 萬美元。第四季非公認會計準則稅收撥備預計約為 310 萬美元，因為在市場復甦之前，不對外國利潤徵稅，而不會從美國損失中受益。

We expect a similar tax provision profile as we navigate through the cycle. The basic share count for Q4 is expected to be approximately 46.5 million shares. And that concludes our prepared remarks and now we'll open the call to questions.

我們預計在整個週期中也會出現類似的稅務撥備情況。第四季的基本股數預計約為 4,650 萬股。我們準備好的發言就到此結束，現在我們將開始提問。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Craig A Ellis, B Riley.

克雷格·A·艾利斯，B·萊利。

Thanks for taking the question and guys congratulations on the new products that are coming to market. Luis, I wanted to start just by following up on your comments on mobile. I think you might have remarked that the business in its strength is at our narrow turn. Was, did I hear that right? And was it just up in three quarter because of some of the strength we see seasonally at that time? or do you really think it's hit a bottom and we should be moving up sequentially from here?

感謝您提出問題，恭喜即將上市的新產品。路易斯，我想先跟進您在行動裝置上的評論。我想您可能已經說過，這項業務的優勢在於我們處於狹窄的轉折點。是，我沒聽錯吧？三季的上漲是否是因為我們當時看到的季節性強勁表現？或者你真的認為它已經觸底並且我們應該從這裡開始按順序向上移動？

Hi, Craig. Yeah, I did make the comment that mobile revenue was up year-on-year by 13%. But if I wanted to expand on that, I can tell you that also bookings in the third quarter were up sequentially across all market segments, which I didn't say in my prepared remarks, but that is also the case.

嗨，克雷格。是的，我確實說過行動收入年增了 13%。但如果我想擴展這一點，我可以告訴你，第三季所有細分市場的預訂量都在連續增長，我在準備好的發言中沒有提到這一點，但情況也是如此。

And they're also up year-on-year across all segments except for consumer. So yes, we have seen an improvement in the mobile revenue quarter-on-quarter year-on-year, but we also haven't seen an improvement in orders across automotive industrial computing, mobile. So basically, across the board, quarter-on-quarter and year-on-year as well. So, we are a little bit more optimistic now as we head into 2025.

除消費者外，所有細分市場的銷售額均較去年同期成長。所以，是的，我們看到行動收入環比同比有所改善，但我們也沒有看到汽車工業計算、移動領域的訂單有所改善。所以基本上，全面、季度環比和同比都是如此。因此，當我們進入 2025 年時，我們現在更加樂觀了。

Good to hear and then I wanted to focus on neon and die level burn-in tests. So, in the deck and in your comments, I believe you framed them as respective $150 million opportunities. What's a reasonable way to look at revenue potential for those respective products next year? Luis and how long does it take to realize or build up to the market sizing that you identified the $150 million?

很高興聽到，然後我想專注於霓虹燈和晶片級別的老化測試。因此，在簡報和您的評論中，我相信您將它們分別描述為 1.5 億美元的機會。看待這些產品明年的收入潛力的合理方法是什麼？Luis，您需要多長時間才能實現或達到您確定的 1.5 億美元的市場規模？

Yeah, we don't first of all, Craig, the market sizing obviously is going to be split between us and other suppliers that are currently in one particular case currently in it, right? So, if you look at HBM inspection today, for example, it's largely supported by a company in Korea called Hanmi.

是的，我們首先不會，克雷格，市場規模顯然將在我們和目前處於特定情況下的其他供應商之間分配，對嗎？例如，如果你看看今天的 HBM 檢查，你會發現它很大程度上是由韓國一家名為 Hanmi 的公司提供支援的。

I think they're sort of they're the largest supplier in this space today. So, we're just getting into this. We got our first order. We were supposed to be delivering the product here in the coming months and then expecting subsequent orders in the beginning of the year. And we're told intercepting a production ramp that should start in the summertime.

我認為他們是當今這個領域最大的供應商。所以，我們才剛開始。我們收到了第一筆訂單。我們本來應該在未來幾個月內在這裡交付產品，然後預計在年初收到後續訂單。我們被告知要攔截應在夏季開始的產量增加。

So, how fast is we're going to eat into this $100 million? Well, we'll see. Right. I mean, I think there are really three or four major manufacturers out there of this technology and at this point, we are working with one of them sort of a beachhead entrance on the silicon carbide side burn-in.

那麼，我們要多快才能花掉這 1 億美元呢？好吧，我們拭目以待。正確的。我的意思是，我認為確實有三到四家主要製造商擁有這項技術，目前，我們正在與其中一家合作，在碳化矽側老化方面佔據灘頭陣地。

This is an opportunity to actually resolve a major problem in burn-in a silicon carbide which is going in with a wafer that is already, at a low yield from the start and then you're wasting process time burn-in non-good devices.

這是一個真正解決碳化矽老化中的主要問題的機會，碳化矽已經與晶圓一起使用，從一開始產量就很低，然後您就浪費了製程時間來老化不良設備。

So, we have now a solution with some partners for or doing burn in at the dial level. We have the leading supplier in the space embrace in driving us to get this product to their production ASAP.

因此，我們現在與一些合作夥伴一起提供了一個解決方案，可以在錶盤層級進行燒錄。我們擁有該領域領先的供應商，推動我們盡快將產品投入生產。

So, I think we are the bottleneck at the moment and we're starting to dialogue with other customers about the opportunity to basically to lower the cost of burn and process test of silicon carbide devices. So, I don't have a trajectory exactly to tell you of, how much of the [150] we're going to get how fast that's going to happen.

因此，我認為我們目前是瓶頸，我們開始與其他客戶對話，探討是否有機會從根本上降低碳化矽元件的燃燒和製程測試成本。所以，我沒有一個準確的軌跡可以告訴你，[150] 中有多少我們將得到發生的速度有多快。

We just broke into those, both of those segments on the HBM side. Not only we will be talking to the other suppliers, but we're also starting to explore, what else can we do in HBM? You know, are there more upstream inspection opportunities that we could intercept in the HBM market? So, we'll see, you more about the story as it evolves in 2025.

我們剛剛進入了 HBM 方面的這兩個部分。我們不僅會與其他供應商交談，而且我們也開始探索，我們還能在 HBM 做什麼？您知道，我們在HBM市場上還有更多可以攔截的上游考察機會嗎？所以，我們將拭​​目以待，您將在 2025 年了解更多關於這個故事的演變。

Okay. Thanks for that color. And then Jeff, if I could, I think I heard your remark that orders were tracking up around 10% for the first quarter. Does that give you confidence that we can see revenues rise sequentially and if revenues were to rise similarly, how would that compare to how you regard normal seasonality in one quarter?

好的。謝謝那個顏色。然後傑夫，如果可以的話，我想我聽到了你的評論，即第一季訂單增長了 10% 左右。這是否讓您相信我們可以看到收入連續增長，如果收入也出現類似增長，與您對一個季度正常季節性的看法相比會如何？

Yeah, I think at this point we're out of the normal seasonality. So, I wouldn't put any weight into the seasonality there. Craig, My comment was that orders are over one or forecast to be over one in Q4. And so that we're anticipating or projecting that revenue in Q1 will be 10% higher than Q4.

是的，我認為目前我們已經超越了正常的季節性。所以，我不會重視那裡的季節性。克雷格，我的評論是，第四季的訂單超過 1 或預計超過 1。因此，我們預計或預測第一季的營收將比第四季高出 10%。

So again, we haven't really seen normal seasonality here going on close to two years. And so I'm not anticipating that that starts back up in Q1.

再說一次，我們已經有近兩年沒有真正看到正常的季節性了。因此，我預計這種情況不會在第一季重新開始。

Got it guys. Thanks for the help. I'll get back in the queue.

明白了，夥計們。感謝您的幫助。我會回到隊列中。

You bet. Thanks Craig.

你打賭。謝謝克雷格。

Christian Schwab, Craig Hallum.

克里斯蒂安·施瓦布，克雷格·哈勒姆。

Hey, great guys. So, a couple of questions first on the high bandwidth memory. And do you know if this is the high bandwidth memory [three E] or if this is high bandwidth [memory four] that you will be inspecting.

嘿，偉大的傢伙們。首先，有幾個關於高頻寬記憶體的問題。您是否知道這是您將要檢查的高頻寬記憶體 [3 E] 還是高頻寬 [記憶體 4]。

No, I personally I don't have that information to share right now, Christian.

不，就我個人而言，我現在沒有可以分享的訊息，克里斯蒂安。

Okay. And then it relates to the wafer level burn-in cast for silicon carbide. How does your product compared to the other company is doing that as far as ASP and how many wafers you could test in parallel?

好的。然後涉及到碳化矽的晶圓級老化鑄造。與其他公司相比，您的產品在 ASP 方面表現如何？

So, this is actually a die-singulated die burn-in not really a wafer. So, it's a little bit different, right? You don't have a direct comparison. So, you have we have a couple of 100 dies in a carrier in a burning slot. But there are multiple of those. So yeah, no, not a straight one-to-one comparison to wafer level.

因此，這實際上是晶片分割的晶片老化，而不是真正的晶圓。所以，有點不同，對吧？你沒有直接比較。所以，我們在燃燒槽的載具中放置了 100 個骰子。但其中有多個。所以是的，不，這不是與晶圓級的直接一對一比較。

The difference here is you have known. So, because you're testing the wafer, the silicon carbide wafer before the burn in. So, you have known quote unquote good die to that step in the process going into the burn in versus a known, you know, section of the Wafer that is already bad going into the burn in that, your advantage there?

這裡的區別是你已經知道了。所以，因為您正在測試晶圓，即老化前的碳化矽晶圓。因此，您已經知道在進入燒錄過程中的那一步引用了好的晶片，而與已知的，您知道的，進入燒錄的晶圓部分已經很糟糕，您的優勢在那裡？

Okay. So, do you think that would be complementary product then?

好的。那麼，您認為這會是互補產品嗎？

Complimentary to what to Wafer burn, you mean? No it's, it's displacement of.

你的意思是晶圓刻錄的免費內容？不，是位移。

Yeah, so it's an alternative solution to that.

是的，所以這是一個替代解決方案。

That's correct.

這是正確的。

And you know, does the customer who's, you know, looking at that are working at that, you know, do they think that, you know, a lower cost, faster throughput solution, are they doing Wafer level burden on the way for they, or is this an additional step to that they're adding in, in order to well, and not put it in a module and throw it away?

你知道，正在研究這個問題的客戶是否認為，你知道，一個成本更低、吞吐量更快的解決方案，他們是否正在為他們做晶圓級負擔？ ，或者這是他們添加的一個額外步驟，以便更好，而不是將其放入模組中然後扔掉？

No it's pretty much, you know, it's the same question you asked before. This is a replacement of existing wafer burning process with a die burning process. It's just a much lower cost, more efficient way of doing it because you're not burning in known bad devices that are stuck all together in a monolithic Wafer.

不，差不多了，你知道，這和你之前問過的問題是一樣的。這是用晶片燒製製程取代現有的晶圓燒製製程。這是一種成本低得多、效率更高的方法，因為您不會燒毀所有粘在單片晶圓中的已知不良設備。

Okay, great. I just putting that together to make sure I completely understood that. And congrats on, you know, sequential growth and in Q1 which, you know, to the earlier question, you know, kind of seems counter cyclical. So, we truly should be bouncing along the bottom here as you, said with, you know, waiting for end market demand to kind of increase plus potentially some of the new products kicking in as we go throughout [25.] Did, I hear what you were trying to say?

好的，太好了。我只是將它們放在一起以確保我完全理解這一點。恭喜您知道，第一季的連續成長，您知道，對於先前的問題，您知道，這似乎有點反週期。因此，我們確實應該像您所說的那樣沿著底部反彈，等待終端市場需求的增加，加上我們在整個過程中可能會出現一些新產品[25。 ？

Yeah, you're correct. We just, you know, to add to the question that came before from Craig Allen, we are seeing demand improvement, you know, our system, well, I think a comment I made in the prepared remark, right? Recurring, for example, recurring bookings were up 8% quarter on quarter and then system bookings were up across all market segments, quarter on quarter and across all market segments except for consumer year over year as well.

是的，你是對的。我們只是，你知道，補充一下克雷格·艾倫之前提出的問題，我們看到需求有所改善，你知道，我們的系統，嗯，我想我在準備好的評論中發表了評論，對嗎？例如，經常性預訂量較上季成長 8%，所有細分市場的系統預訂量較上季成長，除消費者以外的所有細分市場的系統預訂量也較去年同期成長。

So, we are seeing sort of the start of an improvement across the board. Now, I'll be part of this is related to the new products and in some market share gains. Indeed, it's not just, you know, purely market, it's a combination of both embedded in there, but it's good news to see, you know, a schedule in front of you that has black numbers, and you know, positive signs in front of it showing both bookings quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year improvements.

因此，我們看到全面改善的開始。現在，我將討論這部分與新產品和一些市佔率收益相關的內容。事實上，這不僅僅是，你知道，純粹的市場，它是兩者的結合，但這是個好消息，你知道，你面前的時間表有黑色數字，你知道，前面有積極的跡像其中顯示預訂量較上月及年比都有所改善。

And I'm sorry, Jeff, I don't have your company file in front of me. But can, you remind me how many quarters it's been since you, felt confident in essence to give directional guidance for two quarters in a row? Instead of just one to me, I think it's been over a year in my head. But if you know that off hand, that'd be great.

很抱歉，傑夫，我面前沒有你的公司文件。但是，您能否提醒我，自從您本質上有信心連續兩個季度提供方向性指導以來，已經有多少個季度了？我認為這對我來說不僅僅是一個，而是一年多了。但如果你能立即知道這一點，那就太好了。

Yeah, Christian, it has been over a year. I don't, I don't have it right in front of me either, but it's definitely been over a year.

是的，克里斯蒂安，已經一年多了。我不知道，我面前也沒有它，但它肯定已經過去一年多了。

Okay. Great. Congrats on that. No other questions. Thank you.

好的。偉大的。對此表示祝賀。沒有其他問題。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ross Cole, Needham.

羅斯·科爾，尼達姆。

Hi. Thank you for taking my question. I was wondering if you could provide some updated directional color on the different business segments going into 2025. I remember you had thought mobile and computing would have been a strong spot and it's great to see that mobile did well, this quarter, I just want to see your feelings going into next year.

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。我想知道您是否可以提供一些有關 2025 年不同業務部門的更新方向顏色。我記得您曾經認為移動和計算將是一個強項，很高興看到移動在本季度表現良好，我只想看看您對明年的感受。

Well, I think if you know, I guess I'll, speak in terms of orders again. I said that I said all segments were up quarter-over-quarter and year-over-year in terms of bookings. So that, that is perhaps the best indication at least into the early part of next year, right? I can't, I'm not going to speak to the entirety of next year. But if I look at a quarter-over-quarter year-over-year.

好吧，我想如果你知道的話，我想我會再次用命令來說話。我說過，我說過所有細分市場的預訂量均較上季和年成長。因此，這也許是至少到明年初的最佳跡象，對吧？我不能，我不會在明年一整年都講話。但如果我看一下季度環比同比情況。

The strongest booking segments change sequential change or, annual change have been in Mobile. for a year-over-year. Automotive has been the strongest on a quarter-over-quarter and second, strongest on a year-over-year.

行動預訂領域的連續變化或年度變化最為強勁。同比。汽車產業的季度環比表現最為強勁，較去年同期排名第二。

And then industrial came out pretty strong on a quarter-over-quarter as well. So that's sort of the, pattern that, we see here is more across mobile auto and industrial. And, it varies a little bit whether you're talking quarter-over-quarter year-over-year, but those, three segments are sort of leading, the, improvement, the sequential improvements.

然後工業部門的季度環比表現也相當強勁。這就是我們在這裡看到的更多跨移動汽車和工業的模式。而且，無論你是在談論季度環比還是同比，它都會有一點變化，但這三個部分是領先的、改進的、連續的改進。

Great. Thank you. I appreciate.

偉大的。謝謝。我很欣賞。

Robert Mertens, TD Cowan.

羅伯特·默滕斯，TD·考恩。

Hi, I'm on for [Krish Sankar]. Congrats on the design ones during the quarter. I guess my first question is just around your automotive business. It looks like it did much better in the quarter than previously expected. But the utilization in the space is actually down compared to the June quarter.

你好，我是為了[克里什桑卡]。恭喜本季的設計作品。我想我的第一個問題與你們的汽車業務有關。看起來該季度的表現比之前預期的要好得多。但與六月季度相比，該空間的利用率實際上有所下降。

Is this discrepancy largely just due to that one, greater than 10% customer in the quarter or are you starting to see an actual, quarterly-over-quarter improvement in the automotive business? Just any color into the next quarter and next year would be helpful.

這種差異主要是由於本季超過 10% 的客戶造成的，還是您開始看到汽車業務逐季實際改善？下個季度和明年的任何顏色都會有幫助。

Yeah, I can comment that look, the, automotive, I don't know if it has to do with that 10%. Actually, I would have to dig into the numbers a little bit here, but the automotive segment has had an improvement quarter over quarter and year, over year in bookings and then also an improvement quarter-over-quarter in revenue.

是的，我可以評論一下汽車的外觀，我不知道這是否與那 10% 有關。實際上，我必須在這裡深入研究這些數字，但汽車領域的預訂量環比、同比、收入環比都有所改善。

Now you also going to take it a little bit of a grain of salt. I mean, you're starting from a fairly depressed market environment. So it's not terribly difficult to see an improvement, I think more. So the year-over-year is it's kind of encouraging.

現在你也要對此持保留態度。我的意思是，你是從一個相當低迷的市場環境開始的。所以我想，看到進步並不是很難。因此，與去年同期相比，這是令人鼓舞的。

Looking at the numbers, I can see the automotive segment going essentially through a bathtub curve where it started to go down Q2 and then Q3 last year seems to have hit a bottom here on the second quarter of this year and climbing its way back up starting in the third quarter. And I'm looking at this from a, again from a booking perspective at the moment.

從這些數字來看，我可以看到汽車行業基本上經歷了一條浴盆曲線，從第二季度開始下降，然後去年第三季度似乎已經在今年第二季度觸底，並開始回升。 。我現在再次從預訂的角度來看待這個問題。

So more of indicative of what's ahead. You know, I think we have a few customers that have turned on a few orders in the quarter. I can think of one in particular that has been perhaps driving the man earlier, relative to others, but that's always the case. There's always somebody first and others that come later. But that's what we're seeing on the automotive space today.

所以更多地表明了未來的情況。你知道，我認為我們有一些客戶在本季度收到了一些訂單。我能想到一個特別的可能比其他人更早地驅動這個人，但情況總是如此。總是有人在先，有人在後。但這就是我們今天在汽車領域看到的情況。

Got it. Thank you. that's helpful. And then just a quick question on the guy level burden. I think on your slides, the revenue opportunity listed at around $50 million annually, is that maybe what your way with the customer could ramp to or is that just for the overall market?

知道了。謝謝。這很有幫助。然後是一個關於人的負擔的簡單問題。我認為在您的投影片上，列出的每年約 5000 萬美元的收入機會，這可能是您與客戶的方式可以達到的目標，還是僅適用於整個市場？

We think this is for the market at large, not, one customer, but what the market could absorb as it starts to migrate from a wafer level to a die level burn-in? Okay, thank you. That's all for.

我們認為這適用於整個市場，而不是某個客戶，但是當市場開始從晶圓級遷移到晶片級老化時，市場可以吸收什麼？好的，謝謝。這就是全部了。

Brian Chin, Stifel.

布萊恩·欽，斯蒂菲爾。

Hi, thank you. This is [Dennis] on for Brian. So my first question is about this HBM opportunity. Could you maybe discuss a little bit like the steps or the parts of the process that you've won? And are you by chance competing at all with a company like Cam-tech or onto and perhaps also discuss the kind of revenue significance and the timing for revenue for these products?

你好，謝謝。這是布萊恩的[丹尼斯]。我的第一個問題是關於 HBM 機會的。您能否討論一下您贏得的流程的步驟或部分？您是否偶然與像 Cam-tech 這樣的公司競爭，也許還討論了這些產品的收入意義和收入時間？

Oh, hi, Dennis. Yeah, good questions. No, we're not competing with onto our or Cam-tech. They are doing inspection at the wafer at the wafer level. Pre-singulation to my understanding. This is, what we've got here initially is the stacked die inspection metrology.

哦，嗨，丹尼斯。是的，好問題。不，我們不會與我們的或 Cam-tech 競爭。他們正在晶圓級進行晶圓檢查。據我了解，預選單。這就是我們最初得到的堆疊晶片檢查計量學。

So you already get your multi layer, HBM dyes stacked on top of each other and sort of the final product inspection metrology. That's what we're doing. Sorry you comment on the second part of the question.

因此，您已經將多層 HBM 染料堆疊在一起，並進行了最終產品檢測計量。這就是我們正在做的事情。抱歉，您對問題的第二部分發表評論。

There was revenue and there was timing aspects to it, which I think we addressed already just in terms of the revenues too, soon to tell. But we'll, provide updates as we have them.

有收入，也有時間方面的問題，我認為我們已經在收入方面解決了這個問題，很快就會告訴我們。但我們會及時提供更新。

All right, great. And then for my follow up. So you also announced the win with the leading I think multinational analog and the semi customer. How has that engagement progressed and kind of what is the time frame for seeing revenue with this customer? And then maybe you can talk about the revenue contribution as well and then is it just testers or is it handlers and contactors as well? Could you tell us a little bit more about that?

好吧，太好了。然後是我的後續行動。因此，您也宣布贏得了我認為領先的跨國模擬和半客戶的勝利。這種互動進度如何？然後也許您也可以談論收入貢獻，然後它只是測試人員還是處理程序和接觸員？您能告訴我們更多相關資訊嗎？

Sure. This is a part of a press release we put out in July actually at Semicon. So it's a little dated now, but it was indeed part of Q3 event. We have been talking about positioning our Diamond Act tests are more into the mix signal market.

當然。這是我們 7 月在 Semicon 上發布的新聞稿的一部分。所以它現在有點過時了，但它確實是第三季活動的一部分。我們一直在討論將我們的 Diamond Act 測試更多定位到混合訊號市場。

A lot of it is analog, but there's some digital, some RF content. And, in July, we announced that we won a the selection at a top five semiconductor automotive manufacturer. And kind of coincidentally here, this win was not just the diamond X but also handlers and contactors. So we, essentially are selling them a complete test sell.

其中很多是類比內容，但也有一些數位內容和射頻內容。7 月，我們宣布贏得了前五名半導體汽車製造商的評選。巧合的是，這場勝利不僅僅是鑽石X，還有處理者和接觸者。所以我們本質上是在向他們出售完整的測試銷售。

We will see initial revenue although it's still at early stage. So small numbers but initial revenue here in the fourth quarter. And there's a continuation of that going into next year. We are touching on several product groups with these guys. And working our way up on test application development so they can move products onto our diamond X tester.

我們將看到初步收入，儘管仍處於早期階段。數字雖小，但第四季的初始收入。明年這種情況還會持續下去。我們正在與這些人討論幾個產品組。我們致力於測試應用程式開發，以便他們可以將產品轉移到我們的 Diamond X 測試儀上。

In conjunction with that announcement we did in July, we announced a new instrument that goes along with the diamond X called the VI 100 essentially a voltage current instrument that he's using analog applications.

結合我們在 7 月發布的公告，我們發布了一款與 Diamond X 配套的新儀器，稱為 VI 100，本質上是一種使用模擬應用的電壓電流儀器。

And anyhow, this, is sort of a key instrument enabler for our positioning into the mixed signal market. There are a few other things that we did. There's some other platform enhancements that we did in conjunction with the VI 100 some refresh and other instrument capabilities so that the we round up the diamond X is a very cost-effective test platform for general mixed signal customers. Typically, those supplying auto industrial markets. Also power applications for data centers.

無論如何，這是我們進入混合訊號市場的關鍵工具推動因素。我們還做了其他一些事情。我們還結合 VI 100 進行了一些其他平台增強，包括一些刷新和其他儀器功能，因此我們總結 Diamond X 對於一般混合訊號客戶來說是一個非常經濟高效的測試平台。通常是那些供應汽車工業市場的。也為資料中心的應用提供電力。

That concludes today's question and answer session. I'd like to turn the call back to Jeff Jones for closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。我想將電話轉回給傑夫瓊斯，讓他作結束語。

Thank you. And, before we sign off, I'd like to mention that we'll be participating in a few investor conferences over the next three months. First one is Steel Midwest Conference in Chicago on November 7, followed by the New York summit conference in New York City on December 17. And then we'll be attending virtually the Needham Growth Conference on January 9, of next year.

謝謝。而且，在我們結束之前，我想提一下，我們將在接下來的三個月內參加一些投資者會議。第一場是 11 月 7 日在芝加哥舉行的鋼鐵中西部會議，接著是 12 月 17 日在紐約市舉行的紐約峰會。然後我們將參加明年 1 月 9 日舉行的李約瑟增長會議。

If you're interested in meeting with us at any of these conferences, please let me know or reach out to the respective research analyst to schedule a meeting. That's it. And I'd like to thank you for joining today's call and we look forward to speaking with you soon.

如果您有興趣在任何這些會議上與我們會面，請告訴我或聯絡相應的研究分析師安排會議。就是這樣。我要感謝您參加今天的電話會議，我們期待很快與您交談。

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。