CNO Financial Group Inc (CNO) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and thank you for joining us for the CNO Financial Group, First quarter 2025 earnings call. My name is Carlie, and I'll be coordinating the call today.

早上好，感謝您參加 CNO 金融集團 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。我叫卡莉，今天我將負責協調這場電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) I I'd like to hand over to our host, Adam Auvil. The floor is yours.

（操作員指示）我想將麥克風交給我們的主持人亞當·奧維爾 (Adam Auvil)。現在輪到你了。

Good morning and thank you for joining us on CNO Financial Group's first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Today's presentation will include a remarks from Gary Bhojwani, Chief Executive Officer, and Paul McDonough, Chief Financial Officer.

早上好，感謝您參加 CNO 金融集團 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。今天的演講將包括執行長 Gary Bhojwani 和財務長 Paul McDonough 的演講。

Following the presentation, we will also have other business leaders available for the question-and-answer period. During this conference call we will be referring to information contained in yesterday's press release. You could obtain the release by visiting the media section of our website at cnoinc.com.

演講結束後，我們也將邀請其他商界領袖參與問答環節。在本次電話會議中，我們將參考昨天新聞稿中包含的資訊。您可以透過造訪我們的網站 cnoinc.com 的媒體部分來取得該新聞稿。

This morning's presentation is also available in the investors section of our website and was filed in a form 8K yesterday. Let me remind you that any forward-looking statements we make today are subject to a number of factors which may cause actual results to be materially different than those contemplated by the forward-looking statements.

今天早上的簡報也可在我們網站的投資者部分查閱，並於昨天以 8K 表格形式提交。讓我提醒您，我們今天所做的任何前瞻性陳述都會受到多種因素的影響，這些因素可能會導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述所預期的結果有重大差異。

Today's presentation contains a number of non-GAAP measures which should not be considered a substitutes for the most directly comparable GAAP measures. You'll find a reconciliation of the non-gap measures to the corresponding GAAP measures in the appendix.

今天的演示包含許多非 GAAP 指標，這些指標不應被視為最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的替代品。您可以在附錄中找到非差距指標與對應 GAAP 指標的對帳。

The rest of presentations we'll be making performance comparisons and unless otherwise specified, any comparisons made we'll refer to changes between first quarter of 2025 and first quarter 2024. And with that, I'll turn the call over to Gary.

其餘的演示中我們將進行效能比較，除非另有說明，任何比較都將參考 2025 年第一季和 2024 年第一季之間的變更。說完這些，我將把電話轉給加里。

Good morning everyone and thank you for joining us. CNO is off to a solid start in the quarter, building on strong 2024 performance.

大家早安，感謝大家的參與。在 2024 年強勁表現的基礎上，CNO 本季取得了良好的開端。

Our first quarter results enable us to reaffirm our full year 2025 and three-year ROE guidance. Operating earnings per diluted share was $0.79, up 52%, and $0.74 up 42%, excluding significant items. Our first quarter performance reinforces our commitment to grow earnings while improving profitability.

我們的第一季業績使我們能夠重申 2025 年全年和三年的 ROE 指引。每股攤薄營業收益為 0.79 美元，成長 52%，扣除重大項目後每股收益為 0.74 美元，成長 42%。我們第一季的業績強化了我們增加收益和提高獲利能力的承諾。

CNO also delivered our 11th consecutive quarter of strong sales momentum and our ninth consecutive quarter of growth in producing agent count. I'll cover these results in more detail in each division's comments.

CNO 也連續第 11 個季度保持強勁的銷售勢頭，並連續第 9 個季度實現生產代理數量增長。我將在每個部門的評論中更詳細地介紹這些結果。

Earnings continue to benefit from favorable insurance product margin and strong investment results reflecting growth in the business and expansion of the portfolio book yield. New money rates have exceeded 6% for nine consecutive quarters now.

獲利持續受益於有利的保險產品利潤率和強勁的投資業績，反映了業務的成長和投資組合帳面收益率的擴大。新貨幣利率已連續九季超過6%。

Capital and liquidity remain well above target levels after returning $117 million to shareholders. Book value per diluted share excluding AOCI was $37.03, up 6%. Paul will go into greater detail on our financial performance.

在向股東返還 1.17 億美元後，資本和流動性仍遠高於目標水準。不包括 AOCI 的每股攤薄帳面價值為 37.03 美元，上漲 6%。保羅將更詳細地介紹我們的財務表現。

Most importantly, the core areas of our business continue to perform well, including production. Agent force metrics, policyholder persistency, underwriting margin, capital management, and overall investment management.

最重要的是，我們業務的核心領域持續表現良好，包括生產。代理人力量指標、保單持有人堅持率、承保保證金、資本管理和整體投資管理。

Visibility into macroeconomic drivers such as interest rates is deteriorating. However, our track record demonstrates our ability to navigate volatility. As we look to the balance of the year, we remain squarely focused on leveraging our business model to enable sustained profitable growth, executing on our strategic priorities, and driving ROE expansion.

利率等宏觀經濟驅動因素的可見度正在下降。然而，我們的業績記錄證明了我們有能力應對波動。展望今年的平衡，我們仍然專注於利用我們的商業模式實現持續的獲利成長、執行我們的策略重點以及推動 ROE 擴張。

Turning to slide 5, all but one of our growth scorecard metrics were up for the quarter. As a reminder, our growth scorecard focuses on three key drivers of our performance, production, Distribution and investments in capital. I'll discuss each division in the next two slides. Paul will cover investments and capital in more detail during his remarks.

翻到投影片 5，本季我們的成長記分卡指標除一項外均有所上升。提醒一下，我們的成長記分卡重點在於績效的三個關鍵驅動因素：生產、分銷和資本投資。我將在接下來的兩張幻燈片中討論每個部門。保羅將在演講中更詳細地討論投資和資本。

Beginning with the consumer division on slide 6. The consumer division posted another solid start to the year. Our capabilities to reach the underserved middle-income market remain a key differentiator for our consumer business. We marry a virtual connection with local agents who deliver the last mile of sales and service to build lasting relationships with our customers.

從第 6 張投影片上的消費者部門開始。消費者部門今年又取得了良好的開端。我們進入服務不足的中等收入市場的能力仍然是我們消費者業務的關鍵差異化因素。我們與提供最後一哩銷售和服務的當地代理商建立虛擬聯繫，以與我們的客戶建立持久的關係。

This personal interaction is especially valuable to customers during times of uncertainty and market volatility. Our agents maintained positive sales momentum in the quarter with financial and health products continuing their consistent strong performance.

在市場不確定和波動的時期，這種人際互動對客戶來說尤其有價值。我們的代理商在本季度保持了積極的銷售勢頭，金融和健康產品繼續保持強勁表現。

Annuity collected premiums were up 12%, our seventh consecutive quarter of growth. Account values were up 7%, and premium for policy was up 19%. Our strong annuity performance comes on the heels of a record 2024.

年金保費收入成長了 12%，這是我們連續第七個季度實現成長。帳戶價值上漲了 7%，保費上漲了 19%。我們的強勁年金業績緊隨 2024 年創紀錄的業績之後。

Our captive distribution in the long-term relationships that our agents build with their clients enable stability in our block of business. We delivered our eighth consecutive quarter of brokerage and advisory group. Client assets and brokerage and advisory were up 16% for the quarter. New accounts were up 13%, and average account size was up 3%.

我們的代理商與客戶建立的長期合作關係確保了我們業務領域的穩定性。我們已連續第八個季度提供經紀和諮詢服務。本季客戶資產和經紀及諮詢業務成長了 16%。新帳戶數量增加了 13%，平均帳戶規模增加了 3%。

Persistency remains strong with our investment clients. When combined with our annuity account values, our clients now entrust us with more than $16 billion of their assets, up 9%. Sustained growth in brokerage and advisory and annuities reflects a critical but largely unmet need within our market for retirement income solutions.

我們的投資客戶始終堅持不懈。加上我們的年金帳戶價值，我們的客戶現在委託給我們的資產超過 160 億美元，成長了 9%。經紀、諮詢和年金業務的持續成長反映了我們市場對退休收入解決方案的關鍵但很大程度上尚未滿足的需求。

It has long been our position that middle-income customers need and deserve access to professional guidance and retirement products, as do more affluent customers.

我們長期以來的立場是，中等收入客戶和富裕客戶一樣，需要並應該獲得專業指導和退休產品。

We continue to consider it a great privilege to serve this market. Total nap was flat for the quarter. Health nap was up 9%, the 11th consecutive quarter of growth. Supplemental health map was up 8%. Sustained growth in our health results demonstrates strong consumer demand for ways to cover out of pocket gaps in medical coverage and safeguard against the growing cost of healthcare.

我們始終認為，為這個市場提供服務是我們的榮幸。本季總午睡時間持平。健康午睡成長了 9%，這是連續第 11 季的成長。補充健康地圖上漲了8%。我們健康績效的持續成長顯示消費者對彌補醫療保險自付缺口和防範醫療費用不斷上漲的方法有著強烈的需求。

Our Medicare portfolio continues to deliver strong sales growth. Medicare Supplement NAP was up 24%, and Medicare Advantage policies were up 42%. Recall that Medicare Advantage sales are not reflected in that.

我們的醫療保險產品組合持續實現強勁的銷售成長。醫療保險補充保險 (NAP) 上漲了 24%，醫療保險優勢保險 (NAP) 上漲了 42%。請記住，醫療保險優勢計劃的銷售並未反映在其中。

As a reminder, we manufacture Meds up products and distribute MA policies from third party carriers. The strategic choice to optimize our Medicare portfolio, adds balance and diversification and enables us to offer more coverage options for our customers' healthcare needs.

提醒一下，我們生產 Meds up 產品並分銷來自第三方承運商的 MA 政策。優化我們的醫療保險組合的策略選擇，增加了平衡和多樣化，使我們能夠為客戶的醫療保健需求提供更多的覆蓋選擇。

With more than 11,000 people in the US turning 65 every day, Medicare is a year-round business for CNL. Persistency in both Medsop and MAdvantage continues to benefit from the client relationships our agents established.

由於美國每天有超過 11,000 人年滿 65 歲，醫療保險是 CNL 全年開展的業務。我們的代理商建立的客戶關係繼續受益於 Medsop 和 MAdvantage 的堅持。

Long-term care app was down in the quarter on a strong comparable, as the current product first launched in late 2023. Long-term care remains a strong product in our portfolio and fills a critical retirement care need.

由於目前產品於 2023 年底首次推出，長期照護應用程式在本季銷售出現下滑。長期照護仍然是我們產品組合中的強勁產品，滿足了關鍵的退休照護需求。

We continue to see a growing need for practical long-term care solutions within our target market. Live production was down in the quarter, primarily driven by lower lead volumes in our direct-to-consumer business. Lower D2C leads were due in part to elevated TV advertising costs and an intentional pullback in marketing spend to optimize production with expense.

我們持續看到目標市場對實用的長期照護解決方案的需求日益增長。本季現場生產量下降，主要原因是我們的直接面向消費者的業務的領先量下降。D2C 領先優勢下降的部分原因是電視廣告成本上升，以及為了優化生產成本而故意削減行銷支出。

This seasonal fluctuation is consistent with previous 1st quarter results following the Presidential election. Our second quarter results will confirm if the prior trends persist. Over the last several years, we have proactively diversified our non-television direct marketing to include more web and digital channels. Web and digital now accounts for over 36% of sales generated by D2C leads, up 28% year over year.

這種季節性波動與總統大選後第一季的結果一致。我們第二季的業績將證實先前的趨勢是否持續。在過去的幾年中，我們積極實現非電視直銷的多元化，涵蓋更多的網路和數位管道。目前，網路和數位管道佔 D2C 銷售產生的銷售額的 36% 以上，年增 28%。

Looking ahead, we remain confident in our ability to generate direct to consumer sales at an attractive rate of return. We continue to see long term value in our diversified and integrated approach to reach middle income consumers.

展望未來，我們仍有信心能夠以有吸引力的回報率實現直接面向消費者的銷售。我們繼續看到，透過多元化和綜合化的方式接觸中等收入消費者俱有長期價值。

Finally, producing agent count was up 2%, marking our ninth consecutive quarter of growth. Our customers look for technology to supplement, not replace human interaction. Investments in technology continue to enable customer experience and drive operational efficiency.

最後，生產代理數量增加了 2%，這標誌著我們連續第九個季度實現成長。我們的客戶尋求技術來補充而不是取代人際互動。技術投資持續提升客戶體驗並提高營運效率。

Accelerated underwriting on a portion of our simplified life products remains a prime example. It delivered an 87% instant decision rate on submitted policies in the quarter, up 11% over fourth quarter 2024.

我們對部分簡化人壽產品的加速核保就是一個很好的例子。本季度，該公司對已提交的政策的即時決策率達到了 87%，比 2024 年第四季成長了 11%。

Next, slide 7 and our work site division performance. Our work site division is also off to a solid start to the year. Worksite insurance sales were up 11%, our 12th consecutive quarter of growth. Highlights included. Critical illness insurance up 37%, life insurance up 17%, and accident insurance up 4%.

接下來是第7張投影片，我們工地分工表現。我們的工作現場部門今年也取得了良好的開端。工作場所保險銷售額成長 11%，這是我們連續第 12 季實現成長。包括亮點。重疾險上漲37%，壽險上漲17%，意外險上漲4%。

A critical illness product was launched in the fall of 2023 and still shows strong momentum. We have also experienced steady growth in life sales, which now make up 28% of our total work cycle insurance sales. Strategic growth initiatives also contributed significantly to our work site NAP performance.

一款重疾險產品於2023年秋季推出，至今仍展現強勁動能。我們的壽險銷售額也穩定成長，目前占我們工作週期保險總銷售額的 28%。策略性成長舉措也對我們工作現場的 NAP 績效做出了重大貢獻。

Our geographic expansion initiative delivered 32% of the NAP growth in the quarter. This is the 6th consecutive quarter of growth generated by this program. NPA from new group clients was up 134%.

我們的地理擴張計劃在本季度實現了 32% 的 NAP 成長。這是該計劃連續第六個季度實現成長。來自新集團客戶的不良資產淨值成長了134%。

As a reminder, this program helps agents cultivate and acquire new employer groups for insurance sales. Producing agent count was up 8%, marking our 11th consecutive quarter of growth. Agent productivity was up 10%. Over the past year, our work site leadership team has implemented new training and sales technology tools to enhance our agent experience and productivity.

提醒一下，該計劃可幫助代理商培養和獲得新的保險銷售雇主群體。生產代理數量增加了 8%，這是我們連續第 11 個季度實現成長。代理商生產力提高了 10%。在過去的一年裡，我們的工作現場領導團隊實施了新的培訓和銷售技術工具，以增強我們的代理商體驗和生產力。

We expect these programs to further bolster the attractiveness of the strong career opportunity we offer. These sales were down for the quarter off a small base. The first quarter is historically a life selling period for our work site fee products.

我們希望這些項目能夠進一步增強我們提供的強大職業機會的吸引力。由於基數較小，本季銷售額有所下降。從歷史上看，第一季是我們工作現場費用產品的終身銷售期。

We expect to see improvement in the second and third quarters. In late February, we introduced a new product called Optimize Clear. Optimize Clear enhances our services offerings in three ways. It brings together our benefits, advocacy, education, and employee communications services into a single package for employers.

我們預計第二季和第三季情況會有所改善。二月下旬，我們推出了一款名為 Optimize Clear 的新產品。Optimize Clear 透過三種方式增強我們的服務。它將我們的福利、宣傳、教育和員工溝通服務整合成一個單一的雇主服務包。

Second, it adds new capabilities such as our new Medicare advocacy services. And finally, It offers an enhanced technology experience to help make it easier for employees to navigate their benefits. Optimize Clear can be purchased as a standalone product or in combination with our benefits, administration, technology, and voluntary insurance benefits. Early feedback from our brokers and clients has been positive. And with that, I'll turn it over to Paul.

其次，它增加了新功能，例如我們的新醫療保險宣傳服務。最後，它提供了增強的技術體驗，幫助員工更輕鬆地了解他們的福利。Optimize Clear 可以作為獨立產品購買，也可以與我們的福利、管理、技術和自願保險福利結合購買。我們的經紀人和客戶的早期回饋是正面的。接下來，我將把發言權交給保羅。

Thank you, Gary, and good morning everyone. Turning to the financial highlights on slide 8, operating earnings per share, excluding significant items were up 42% in the quarter, reflecting growth in the business, stable insurance product margins, sustained new money rates above portfolio rates, resulting in increased book yields.

謝謝你，加里，大家早安。轉向幻燈片 8 上的財務亮點，不包括重大項目的每股營業收益在本季度增長了 42％，反映了業務的增長、穩定的保險產品利潤率、持續高於投資組合利率的新資金利率，從而導致賬面收益率增加。

Alternative returns still a bit below our long term run rate expectations, but much improved year over year, and lastly, continued discipline and expense and capital management.

替代回報仍然略低於我們的長期運行率預期，但同比大幅改善，最後，繼續保持紀律、費用和資本管理。

The income was adversely impacted in the quarter by ASC 606 revenue recognition accounting for the sale of third-party Medicare Advantage policies by bankers life agents and our consumer division.

本季的收入受到 ASC 606 收入確認的不利影響，該收入確認涉及銀行家人壽保險代理人和我們的消費者部門銷售第三方醫療保險優勢政策。

The underlying dynamics of that business are actually quite healthy, as Gary mentioned, the MA policies sold in the quarter increased 42%.

該業務的潛在動態實際上非常健康，正如加里所提到的，本季銷售的 MA 保單成長了 42%。

The accounting rules, however, create volatility in the timing of revenue recognition. I expect the adverse impacts noted in the first quarter of this year to be largely offset by anticipated increases in fee revenue recognition in some future periods.

然而，會計規則造成了收入確認時間的波動。我預計今年第一季出現的不利影響將在很大程度上被未來某些時期預計的費用收入確認增加所抵消。

We continue to manage our capital and hold co-liquidity targets. While in the quarter deploying $100 million of excess capital and share repurchases, contributing to a 7% reduction in weighted average diluted shares outstanding.

我們繼續管理我們的資本並保持共同流動性目標。本季部署了 1 億美元的超額資本和股票回購，導致加權平均稀釋流通股數減少了 7%。

On a trailing 12 month basis, operating return on equity excluding significant items was 11.9%. Turning to slide 9, insurance product margin was up across all three product categories, and each of the underlying products, with total insurance product margin excluding significant items up 8%.

過去 12 個月，不包括重大專案的營業股本回報率為 11.9%。轉到投影片 9，所有三個產品類別以及每個基礎產品的保險產品利潤率均有所上升，不包括重大項目的保險產品總利潤率上升了 8%。

The results continue to benefit from growth in the business, solid persistency, and higher investment returns. Turning to slide 10. Net investment income remains strong in the quarter. This was the 11th consecutive quarter of growth in book yield and invested assets.

業績持續受益於業務的成長、穩健的持久性和更高的投資回報。翻到第 10 張投影片。本季淨投資收益依然強勁。這是帳面收益率和投資資產連續第11季成長。

The new money rate was 6.43%, the ninth consecutive quarter above 6%. The average yield unallocated investments was 4.87%, up 17 basis points year over year. The increase in yield along with growth in the business drove a 6% increase in net investment income allocated to products for the quarter.

新貨幣利率為6.43%，連續第九個季度高於6%。未分配投資平均報酬率為4.87%，較去年同期上升17個基點。收益率的提高和業務的成長推動了本季分配給產品的淨投資收益增加 6%。

Investment income not allocated to products was up considerably, primarily due to improved alternative investment income versus the prior year.

未分配給產品的投資收入大幅增加，主要原因是與前一年相比，另類投資收入增加。

Total investment income was up 16% for the quarter, marking the 6th consecutive quarter of growth. Our new investments in the quarter comprised approximately $1 billion of assets with an average rating of single A and an average duration of 7 years.

本季總投資收入成長 16%，連續第六個季度成長。我們本季的新投資包括約 10 億美元的資產，平均評級為 A，平均期限為 7 年。

Our new investments are summarized in more detail on slide 22 of the presentation. Turning to slide 11, the market value of invested assets grew 11% in the quarter. With roughly 60% of the increase, a result of growth in the business and market appreciation on the investment portfolio, and the remainder due to recent FABN issuances.

我們的新投資在簡報的第 22 張投影片中有更詳細的總結。翻到第 11 張投影片，本季投資資產的市值成長了 11%。其中約 60% 的增幅源自於業務成長和投資組合的市場升值，其餘則源自於近期 FABN 的發行。

Approximately 96% of our fixed maturity portfolio at quarter end was investment grade rated with an average rating of single A, reflecting our up in quality bias over the last several years. Our portfolio is high quality, liquid, and delivering durable results.

本季末，我們約 96% 的固定期限投資組合被評為投資等級，平均評級為 A，這反映了我們過去幾年對品質偏好的提高。我們的投資組合品質高、流動性強，並能帶來持久的成果。

Turning to slide 12. Our capital position remains strong. The quarter end our consolidated risk-based capital ratio was 379%. Available hold co liquidity was $250 million well above our target minimum. Leverage at quarter end was 32.7% as reported.

翻到第 12 張投影片。我們的資本狀況依然強勁。本季末，我們的綜合創投比率為 379%。可用的控股公司流動性為 2.5 億美元，遠高於我們的最低目標。據報道，季末的槓桿率為 32.7%。

Adjusting for the senior notes that will be paid off at maturity in May of this year, leverage at quarter end was 26.1% within our target range of 25% to 28%. Turning to slide 13 and our 2025 guidance. As Gary mentioned, we are reaffirming all guidance announced in February as summarized on this slide.

調整將於今年 5 月到期償還的優先票據後，季末的槓桿率為 26.1%，處於我們 25% 至 28% 的目標範圍內。翻到第 13 張投影片和我們的 2025 年指引。正如加里所提到的，我們重申二月宣布的所有指導意見，如本投影片中所述。

Certainly, economic conditions today are more volatile than they were back in February, and the outlook is far less certain. That admittedly creates additional risk, perhaps skewed to the downside in the near term, and one can also envision upside scenarios.

當然，今天的經濟狀況比二月更加不穩定，前景也更加不確定。不可否認，這會帶來額外的風險，短期內可能偏向下行，但人們也可以預見上行情境。

The bottom line is our balance sheet and business model position us well to navigate through uncertainty, as demonstrated most recently in the strong performance of our business through the COVID-19 pandemic. In addition, our stress testing indicates that we could absorb the impacts of a severe recession if that were to come to pass without dropping below our target capital and liquidity levels.

最重要的是，我們的資產負債表和商業模式使我們能夠很好地應對不確定性，正如我們業務在 COVID-19 疫情期間的強勁表現所證明的那樣。此外，我們的壓力測試表明，如果發生嚴重衰退，我們可以吸收其影響，而不會低於我們的目標資本和流動性水平。

Longer term, we remain very focused and committed to improving run rate ROE by 150 basis points over the 2025 to 2027 period from about 10% in 2024. And with that, I'll turn it back to Gary.

從長遠來看，我們仍將高度專注並致力於在 2025 年至 2027 年期間將 ROE 運行率從 2024 年的 10% 提高 150 個基點。說完這些，我就把話題轉回給加里。

Thanks Paul. Our financial health is strong, and our business model is resilient. During times of uncertainty, our customers and clients need professional guidance and financial security products more than ever.

謝謝保羅。我們的財務狀況良好，我們的商業模式具有彈性。在不確定的時期，我們的客戶和客戶比以往任何時候都更需要專業指導和財務安全產品。

Our associates, agents, and independent partners are here to help. Our track record has demonstrated our ability to navigate market events for a position of strength. We remain confident in our capabilities to deliver profitable growth and drive ROE expansion in 2025 and beyond.

我們的同事、代理商和獨立合作夥伴將竭誠為您提供協助。我們的業績記錄證明了我們有能力駕馭市場事件並佔據優勢地位。我們對自己在 2025 年及以後實現獲利成長和推動 ROE 擴張的能力充滿信心。

Before we open up the line for questions, I'm pleased to share a program update. Starting in June, we will launch a new series of CNO investor briefings. These programs will focus on one area of CNO's business, provide a deeper look at that area's strategy and approach and offer an opportunity for Q&A with members of management and their leadership teams.

在我們開始提問之前，我很高興分享一個程式更新。從六月開始，我們將推出一系列新的 CNO 投資者簡報。這些專案將重點放在 CNO 業務的一個領域，深入了解該領域的策略和方法，並提供與管理層成員及其領導團隊進行問答的機會。

Our first investor briefing will feature a one-hour virtual session on CNO investments led by our Chief Investment Officer, Eric Johnson. Program registration will open in May. Event details will be announced soon, so please ensure that you are signed up to receive our email alerts. We thank you for your support of and interest in CNO Financial Group. We will now open it up to questions, operator.

我們的第一次投資者簡報會將以一小時的 CNO 投資虛擬會議形式舉行，由我們的首席投資長 Eric Johnson 主持。項目註冊將於五月開放。活動詳情將很快公佈，因此請確保您已註冊接收我們的電子郵件提醒。我們感謝您對 CNO 金融集團的支持與關注。接線員，我們現在開始回答問題。

Thank you very much. We'd like to open the lines for Q&A. (Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Wes Carmichael of Autonomous, Wes, your line is now open.

非常感謝。我們想開通問答熱線。（操作員指示）我們的第一個問題來自 Autonomous 的 Wes Carmichael，Wes，您的線路現已開通。

Hey, good morning. Just on buybacks, they're a bit higher this quarter of $100 million and just thinking ahead to the second quarter and maybe a little bit of pressure on the stock today, would you expect, kind of in the current more choppy macro environment you might want to lean into the buyback again, or is this maybe a little bit of a time to be more cautious given a potential recession fears and volatility in market?

嘿，早安。僅就回購而言，本季度的回購金額略高，為 1 億美元，展望第二季度，今天的股票可能會面臨一些壓力，您是否預計，在當前更加動蕩的宏觀環境下，您可能會再次傾向於回購，或者考慮到潛在的經濟衰退擔憂和市場波動，現在是否需要更加謹慎？

Hey, Wes, good morning, it's Paul. So the short answer is that we're inclined to continue to lean in as you know our share buyback levels have been somewhat elevated the last two quarters, $90 million and $0.04 $100 million in this first quarter.

嘿，韋斯，早安，我是保羅。因此，簡而言之，我們傾向於繼續傾斜，正如您所知，我們的股票回購水準在過去兩個季度有所提高，今年第一季分別為 9,000 萬美元和 0.04 億美元。

We're still sitting on $250 million of cash flow at the Hoo against our minimum of $150 so that, creates some capacity, that would suggest. The potential for some continuation of these elevated levels.

我們仍然擁有 Hoo 的 2.5 億美元現金流，而最低現金流為 1.5 億美元，因此，這可以創造一些產能。這些高水準有可能持續下去。

It's helpful thanks Paul and just switching to the fee revenue topic that we talked about with Medicare Advantage and the timing there I know you said some of that is likely to reverse in future periods. Is there any color you can share on how the GAAP accounting revenue recognition differs from the cash flow from fees in the period?

這很有幫助，謝謝保羅，我們剛剛轉到我們討論的醫療保險優勢計劃的費用收入話題，我知道您說其中一些可能會在未來時期發生逆轉。您能否解釋一下 GAAP 會計收入確認與期間費用產生的現金流量有何不同？

Sure. So Wes, I think this is a question that's pretty common across all of our sell side coverage and I think probably with our investors as well. So, let me give you a fairly long-winded response just to provide some information and context.

當然。所以韋斯，我認為這是我們所有賣方報告中一個相當常見的問題，我想我們的投資者可能也是如此。因此，請允許我給你一個相當冗長的答复，只是為了提供一些資訊和背景。

So as I'm sure you appreciate, under ASC 606 accounting, we are required to estimate lifetime revenue and expenses from each issued met Advantage policy that we sell for third parties. And we base that estimate on our experience and the related data that we have with each of the carriers that issue the policies.

因此，我相信您明白，根據 ASC 606 會計，我們需要估算我們向第三方銷售的每份已發行的 Advantage 保單的終身收入和支出。我們根據我們的經驗以及與每家簽發保單的保險公司相關的數據做出此估計。

We have more experience and related data with three primary carriers of the roughly 21 net advantage carriers that we represent.

在我們所代表的約 21 家淨優勢承運商中，我們與三家主要承運商有較多的經驗和相關數據。

The sale of a policy to one of those three primary carriers translates to higher revenue and income than a sale to any of the other carriers, because with those other carriers we apply a constraint on our estimated lifetime revenue and income due to the more limited experience and related data we have with those carriers.

向這三家主要保險公司之一出售保單比向其他任何保險公司出售保單能帶來更高的收益，因為對於其他保險公司，我們對預計的終身收益和收入施加了限制，因為我們對這些保險公司的經驗和相關數據比較有限。

In the first quarter we saw a significant increase in the percentage of new sales with these other carriers and also in the percentage of exchanges where a policyholder is shifting from one of our three primary carriers to one of the other carriers, and this dynamic drove the decline in fee income year over year, notwithstanding the increase in the number of MA advantage policies that we sold and issued in the quarter.

在第一季度，我們發現與這些其他保險公司的新銷售額百分比以及保單持有人從我們的三大主要保險公司之一轉移到其他保險公司之一的交易百分比都有顯著增加，儘管我們在本季度銷售和簽發的 MA 優勢保單數量有所增加，但這種動態導致費用收入同比下降。

As we develop more credible experience with the newer carriers, we anticipate the assumptions between the three primary carriers and the newer carriers would converge. In other words, we would expect to relax the constraints we are currently applying to the newer carriers. So if it plays out like we expect, we would see a reversal in some future period of some of the adverse impacts we experienced in the first quarter of this year.

隨著我們在新營運商方面累積了更多可靠的經驗，我們預計三大主要營運商和新營運商之間的假設將會趨於一致。換句話說，我們希望放寬目前對新業者施加的限制。因此，如果情況按照我們預期的那樣發展，我們將在未來某個時期看到今年第一季所經歷的一些不利影響的逆轉。

The final point I think worth making is that we're not seeing an increase in the number of exchanges as a percentage of the total policies issued. So this is a healthy and growing part of our business, but there's some noise in the timing of revenue and income recognition under GAAP accounting driven by a changing mix of sales between the three primary carriers and the newer carriers. So I'll stop there and I know that was a lot, but hopefully that provides some helpful information and context.

我認為值得一提的最後一點是，我們並沒有看到交易所數量佔簽發保單總數的百分比增加。因此，這是我們業務中健康且不斷增長的一部分，但由於三大主要運營商和較新的運營商之間的銷售組合變化，根據 GAAP 會計，收入和收入確認的時間存在一些噪音。所以我就到此為止，我知道說了這麼多，但希望這能提供一些有用的信息和背景。

It does, Thank you.

確實如此，謝謝。

Thank you very much. Our next question comes from John Barnidge John from Piper Sandler your line is now open.

非常感謝。我們的下一個問題來自約翰·巴尼奇 (John Barnidge)，來自 Piper Sandler 的約翰，您的線路現已開放。

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to ask a question. Just kind of following up on that fee income commentary. Paul, you said there'd be a reversal possibly in a future period. Does that reversal like occur possibly in a year or is it over a multi-year period? Thank you.

早安.感謝您給我提問的機會。只是跟進費用收入的評論。保羅，你說過未來某個時期可能會出現逆轉。這種逆轉是否可能在一年內發生，還是需要多年的時間？謝謝。

Hey John, it's hard to say. It certainly could. We certainly could see some of that inside of calendar 2025. It could extend beyond that. But the thing I would emphasize, John, is that our guidance hasn't changed, right? We're reaffirming our full year guidance.

嘿，約翰，這很難說。當然可以。我們肯定可以在 2025 年看到其中的一些內容。其範圍可能會超出這個範圍。但約翰，我想強調的是，我們的指導方針沒有改變，對嗎？我們重申全年指引。

Feecom is a small piece of that. Our guidance for fee income was that it would be in '25, a bit below what it was in 2024. Largely because of this dynamic which we foreshadowed back in February, we anticipated this sales mix and the impact that it would have, it's a bit more pronounced, it's actually quite a bit more pronounced than we had anticipated.

Feecom 只是其中的一小部分。我們對費用收入的預期是，25 年的費用收入將略低於 2024 年的水準。很大程度上是因為我們在二月預示的這種動態，我們預計這種銷售組合及其將產生的影響會更加明顯，實際上比我們預期的要明顯得多。

And I think that's a dynamic not just with us but more broadly in this market. Again, we haven't seen an increase in the exchanges as a percentage of the total. Sales issues. So in that context it's stable.

我認為這不僅適用於我們，也適用於更廣泛的市場。再次，我們並沒有看到交易所在總數中所佔的百分比增加。銷售問題。因此從這個角度來看它是穩定的。

So our guidance for fee income hasn't changed. I still expect it to be a bit lower than it was in 2024, maybe by a bit more than we thought back in February, but again, fee income is a small component of the overall earnings, and we reaffirm our full year guidance for earnings in total on a per share basis.

因此，我們對費用收入的指導並沒有改變。我仍然預計它會比 2024 年略低一些，可能比我們 2 月份預想的要高一些，但同樣，費用收入只是整體收益的一小部分，我們重申全年每股收益的指導。

Thank you for that. And my other question you talked about optimized clear product launch. Can you maybe discuss how you view the opportunities that within that for arguably a customer set that has Demographic tailwis. Thank you.

謝謝你。我的另一個問題是您談到優化清晰產品發布。您能否討論一下，對於具有人口統計特徵的客戶群來說，您如何看待其中的機會？謝謝。

Hey John, this is Gary. So as you might imagine, we're really bullish on this. This really lets us bring together a bunch of services that we have historically offered to the worksite customers and bring them together in one consolidated offering.

嘿，約翰，我是加里。所以正如你可能想像的那樣，我們對此非常樂觀。這實際上使我們能夠將過去向工作現場客戶提供的一系列服務整合在一起，並將它們整合為一個綜合服務。

Now there's one exception to that. There's a new Medicare advice service that we're also providing and relatively speaking that's new to us. But we're really encouraged by the early reactions. Now it's early, that's why we're sounding a little bit cautious. But we're very encouraged by the early reactions. We think that the demand for this will grow, and we're very bullish on what the future potential is.

現在有一個例外。我們也提供新的醫療保險諮詢服務，相對而言，這對我們來說是新的。但早期的反應確實讓我們感到鼓舞。現在還為時過早，所以我們聽起來有點謹慎。但早期的反應讓我們深受鼓舞。我們認為這方面的需求將會成長，我們對其未來的潛力非常樂觀。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you very much. Our next question comes from Ryan Krueger of Keefe. We're at inwards. Ryan, your line is now open.

非常感謝。我們的下一個問題來自 Keefe 的 Ryan Krueger。我們在裡面。瑞安，你的線路現已開通。

Good morning. I had a question on direct-to-consumer life sales. Can you, I understand the headwind that you had from the political election and higher ad costs, but I guess at this point is it your expectation that we'll have a bounce back in both ad spend and sales, for direct to consumer for the balance of the year.

早安.我對直接面向消費者的生活銷售有疑問。您能否理解政治選舉和廣告成本上漲對您的不利影響，但我想，您現在是否預期今年全年直接面向消費者的廣告支出和銷售額都會反彈？

Ryan, this is Gary. Thanks for the question. I would say at a high level, yes, there's one caveat I'd put on that. There has over the last 3, so this is my 3rd election being here at CNL and over that period of time there's been a broader shift away from broadcast television to streaming and this type of thing. So it's hard for us to tell.

瑞安，這是加里。謝謝你的提問。我想從高層次上說，是的，對此我有一個警告。在過去的 3 年裡，這是我在 CNL 參加的第三次選舉，在此期間，電視行業發生了更廣泛的轉變，從廣播電視轉向了串流媒體等。所以我們很難說。

How much of a bounce back we'll have in this traditional media setting given that overlay. If it weren't for that overlay, I would say absolutely yes, that's our expectation. We just don't know how to predict that. Now, on the positive side, because we've seen this coming, us and everybody else, we've been moving more and more of our advertising efforts to other social media.

考慮到這種覆蓋，我們在傳統媒體環境中將有多大的反彈。如果沒有那個覆蓋，我會說絕對是的，這是我們的期望。我們只是不知道如何預測這一點。現在，從積極的一面來看，因為我們已經預見了這一點，我們和其他人一樣，已經將越來越多的廣告精力轉移到其他社交媒體上。

Channels and you'll recall from my script, I believe I quoted 36% of our sales now come from those non-traditional broadcast television areas. So that's the one caveat I would put on that expectation, but we have been preparing for it and we've been seeing good success in those alternate media channels.

頻道，你會記得我的腳本，我相信我引用了我們現在 36% 的銷售額來自那些非傳統的廣播電視領域。所以這是我對這項期望提出的一個警告，但我們一直在為此做準備，我們已經看到這些替代媒體管道取得了良好的成功。

Got it thanks. And then could you give a little bit more color on the trends you're seeing in consumer agent recruiting and retention, at a good string of growth? Are you still optimistic about continued growth from here?

明白了，謝謝。然後，您能否更詳細地介紹您所看到的消費者代理商招募和保留的趨勢，以及良好的成長趨勢？您是否仍對未來的持續成長持樂觀態度？

Short answer is yes, we remain optimistic on our ability to give, a good career path to these folks that are interested in this. Historically we've seen that when unemployment pressure rises, our agent recruiting picks up. So if there is going to be an increase in unemployment, we would expect that to help us. But even without that, as you pointed out, we've strung together many quarters now.

簡短的回答是肯定的，我們仍然對自己的能力持樂觀態度，為這些對此感興趣的人提供良好的職業道路。從歷史上看，我們發現，當失業壓力上升時，我們的代理商招募就會增加。因此，如果失業率上升，我們預計這對我們有所幫助。但即使沒有這一點，正如您所指出的，我們現在已經串聯了許多季度。

So we think we've got an offering and a model here that really resonates with people that are willing to consider this as a career. So we expect our agent counts to grow and we expect our productivity to grow certainly over a longer time frame.

因此，我們認為我們提供的服務與模式能夠真正引起那些願意將此視為職業的人們的共鳴。因此，我們預計我們的代理商數量將會成長，並且我們預計我們的生產力在較長的時間內肯定會成長。

Great thank you.

非常感謝。

Great thank you very much. Our next question comes from Suneeth Kamath of Jeffrey's. Sonny, your line is now open.

非常好，非常感謝。我們的下一個問題來自 Jeffrey's 的 Suneeth Kamath。桑尼，你的線路現在開通了。

Hi, thanks. Maybe just to follow up on Ryan's second question. It looks like the consumer pack was down maybe 3% from the fourth quarter and maybe lower than third and fourth quarter of last year, maybe flat to 2. So I know you just talked about recruiting growth, but What is the outlook for PA in the consumer division? Thanks.

你好，謝謝。也許只是為了跟進 Ryan 的第二個問題。看起來消費者包比第四季下降了約 3%，可能低於去年第三季和第四季，可能持平於 2。所以我知道您剛才談到了招募成長，但是消費者部門的 PA 前景如何？謝謝。

I expect this to continue to grow that. I, we experience quarter to quarter fluctuations, so on a sequential basis there may be some bumps in it, but I believe that on an annual basis, if you look similar periods year over year, meaning Q1 to Q1, I expect this to continue to show growth.

我希望這種情況能夠持續成長。我認為，我們經歷了季度與季度之間的波動，因此從連續性來看，可能會有一些波動，但我相信，從年度來看，如果你逐年觀察類似的時期，即第一季度與第一季度之間，我預計這將繼續呈現增長。

Certainly over a longer period, meaning over the full year, absolutely intra quarter or intra a year there may be some bumps here and there, but nothing significant. We're not seeing anything that tells us our models are not holding up in terms of the longer term projections for both agent count growth and productivity growth.

當然，從較長的一段時間來看，也就是從全年來看，絕對是一個季度內或一年內，可能會出現一些波動，但並不嚴重。我們沒有看到任何跡象表明我們的模型在代理數量增長和生產力增長的長期預測方面不成立。

Got it. And then maybe just in terms of your target market, how are you thinking about the appetite that they would have for insurance products? I mean, if we do see a bigger impact from tariffs and, costs continue to rise or we go into recession, can you just talk about sort of the health of that market?

知道了。那麼也許僅就您的目標市場而言，您如何看待他們對保險產品的興趣？我的意思是，如果我們確實看到關稅產生更大的影響，並且成本持續上升或我們陷入衰退，您能談談該市場的健康狀況嗎？

Overall, look, if we go into a recession, it of course depends on just how deep that is, right? It's very hard to predict that. But the things that don't change in a recession, 11,000 people still turn 65 every day. That doesn't change.

總的來說，如果我們陷入經濟衰退，當然取決於衰退的深度，對嗎？這很難預測。但經濟衰退不會改變的是，每天仍有 11,000 人年滿 65 歲。那一點沒有改變。

Those people are living longer. The lifespans are growing. Medical costs are going up. And there are fewer alternatives. For those reasons, recession or no, we expect there to be continued strong interest in our products.

這些人的壽命更長。壽命不斷延長。醫療費用正在上漲。而且可供選擇的方案也越來越少。基於這些原因，無論是否存在經濟衰退，我們都預期人們仍將對我們的產品保持濃厚的興趣。

Now, are we immune to a recession or an economic downturn? Of course not. We'll be impacted. But I don't think we'll be impacted nearly as significantly as manufacturers of other hard goods as an example or other discretionary purposes purchases.

那麼，我們是否能夠免於經濟衰退或經濟低迷的影響？當然不是。我們會受到影響。但我認為，我們受到的影響不會像其他耐用品製造商或其他可自由支配用途的採購那麼嚴重。

I think we'll weather that much better than others have, and I would point to recent experiences, not least of which is the pandemic. We came through that, I think, relatively. Well, and even with the period of prior inflation that we had over the last year or two, we came through that quite well.

我認為我們會比其他國家更好地度過這一難關，我想指出最近的經歷，其中最主要的是疫情。我認為，我們相對而言已經度過了這一階段。嗯，即使過去一兩年我們經歷了通貨膨脹時期，我們也很好地度過了難關。

So I think that supports our view that the demand and need for these products is relatively resilient, not immune, but relatively resilient to some of these macroeconomic pressures.

因此，我認為這支持了我們的觀點，即對這些產品的需求相對具有彈性，雖然不是免疫的，但相對來說對一些宏觀經濟壓力具有彈性。

Got it thank you.

明白了，謝謝。

Thank you very much. Our next question comes from Jack Matten of BMO. Jack, your line is now open.

非常感謝。下一個問題是來自 BMO 的 Jack Matten。傑克，你的線路現在開通了。

Hi, good morning. Just a question on your Medicare business. A big health insurer recently flagged some margin issues with Medicare Advantage. I'm wondering if you expect, consumers to shift toward Medicare supplement if there's higher prices on the Medicare Advantage side, and many impacts you could see on your Medicare Advantage the income if those carriers are raising rates.

嗨，早安。我只是想問一下有關您的醫療保險業務的問題。一家大型健康保險公司最近指出了醫療保險優勢計劃的一些利潤問題。我想知道，如果醫療保險優勢計劃的價格上漲，您是否預計消費者會轉向醫療保險補充計劃，並且如果這些保險公司提高費率，您可能會看到醫療保險優勢計劃的收入受到諸多影響。

Okay, Jack, thanks for the question. So first, there's been a couple other questions about our Medicare Advantage business, and I just want to emphasize one thing. I would kill to have another quarter like the one we just had.

好的，傑克，謝謝你的提問。首先，關於我們的醫療保險優勢業務還有其他幾個問題，我只想強調一點。我會不惜一切代價，再得到一個像我們剛剛得到的那個季度那樣的季度。

42% growth in policies and the only bump here was, the timing of that, fee recognition. I want to make sure that really came across loud and clear. I would kill to have another quarter like the one we just had. It was absolutely a fantastic quarter.

保單數量增加了 42%，唯一的障礙是費用確認的時機。我想確保這一點能夠得到清晰而響亮的傳達。我會不惜一切代價，再得到一個像我們剛剛得到的那個季度那樣的季度。這絕對是一個精彩的季度。

Now, to your point, I think that some demand will be impacted. On MA we may see, I don't know if we'll see them shifting back to meds up or other types of plans or it's a little early to call that, but there's been a long secular trend away from MedSub towards Med advantage, and I think that will abate somewhat because I think carriers are going to start reeling in some of the benefits that they had in the MA space. So I do expect to see that.

現在，關於您的觀點，我認為一些需求會受到影響。在 MA 上我們可能會看到，我不知道我們是否會看到他們轉回藥物增加或其他類型的計劃，或者現在這麼說還為時過早，但從 MedSub 轉向 Med advantage 的長期趨勢已經存在，我認為這種趨勢會有所減弱，因為我認為運營商將開始收回他們在 MA 領域擁有的一些好處。所以我確實希望看到這一點。

I don't think that will have a material impact on us. Because our view is that those consumers that may have considered MA to the extent they consider meds up, especially with us, frankly, I'd rather sell a Meds up because we manufacture and collective distribution margin on that, whereas with MA it's just simply a distribution margin.

我認為這不會對我們產生實質影響。因為我們的觀點是，那些可能已經考慮過 MA 的消費者，尤其是我們，坦白說，我寧願銷售 Meds up，因為我們製造並集體分銷利潤率，而對於 MA 來說，它只是分銷利潤率。

So we view ourselves as being in a good position if that happens. And remember, if those MA underwriting results worsen. Those don't impact us because we're strictly a distributor on the MA side.

因此，如果發生這種情況，我們認為自己將處於有利地位。請記住，如果這些 MA 承保結果惡化。這些不會影響到我們，因為我們嚴格來說是 MA 方面的經銷商。

So whatever happens on the shift between that demand, we regard it generally speaking as left pocket right pocket. If they want to buy MA from us, we're thrilled to sell it to them. We like the margin we get on that. It's great. If they want to shift to buy meds up instead, we're happy to sell them that too. We enjoy that product, so we don't see that having a material impact if that transition materializes.

因此，無論需求之間的轉變如何，我們一般都將其視為左口袋右口袋。如果他們想從我們這裡購買 MA，我們很樂意將其出售給他們。我們喜歡由此獲得的利潤。這很棒。如果他們想轉而購買藥品，我們也很樂意將藥品賣給他們。我們很喜歡該產品，因此我們認為如果這種轉變實現，它不會產生實質的影響。

It's helpful. Thank you. And Just to follow up, in the slide that you referenced a potential RBC ratio variability just wonder if you could elaborate on that like what you're seeing and would you expect any potential impacts in the second quarter given the market volatility we've seen in April.

這很有幫助。謝謝。再問一下，您在幻燈片中提到了潛在的 RBC 比率變化，我想知道您是否可以詳細說明您所看到的情況，並考慮到我們在 4 月看到的市場波動，您是否預計第二季度會產生任何潛在影響。

Sure, hey Jack, it's Paul. I'll take that one. So, we ended the quarter with RBC of 379 against our target of 375. The 379 was impacted by a couple of things that I would describe as timing, that are likely to, reverse or unwind over time.

當然，嘿傑克，我是保羅。我要那個。因此，本季結束時我們的 RBC 為 379，而我們的目標是 375。379 受到一些我認為是時機因素的影響，這些因素很可能會隨著時間的推移而逆轉或消失。

Now I pointed two things in particular. One is an increase in no admitted assets which will certainly reverse. And the other is the accounting for the statutory accounting for FIAs, which has a dynamic where when equities, equity markets, equity indexes are declining like they did in the first quarter, that has an adverse impact on our stat net income and that capital.

現在我特別指出兩件事。一是禁止承認資產的增加，這種情況一定會逆轉。另一個是針對 FIA 的法定會計，當股票、股票市場、股票指數像第一季一樣下跌時，這會對我們的統計淨收入和資本產生不利影響。

Because the options that we use, the one year call options that we use to hedge our exposure to equities that, comes through the part rate in the FIA product, those are mark to market and that Mark is mostly offset by the change in the liability but not entirely so you have a little bit of a disconnect there from a staff accounting perspective economically it's a nearly perfect hedge.

因為我們使用的選擇權，即用於對沖股票風險的一年期看漲期權，是通過 FIA 產品中的部分利率獲得的，這些期權是按市價計價的，並且該價格大部分被負債的變化所抵消，但並非完全被抵消，因此從員工會計的角度來看，在經濟上存在一些脫節，這是一種近乎完美的對沖。

And so that had an impact in the first quarter, essentially unwinding positive impacts in prior quarters when equities were up because this moves the same way in both directions. So those are the two things Jack that I'd point to in the quarter.

因此，這對第一季產生了影響，基本上抵消了前幾季股市上漲時的正面影響，因為這種影響在兩個方向上都是相同的。所以傑克，這就是我在本季要指出的兩件事。

Appreciate it. Thank you.

非常感謝。謝謝。

Thank you very much. Our next question comes from excuse me, Wilma Burdis, Raymond James. Wilma, your line is now open.

非常感謝。對不起，我們的下一個問題來自雷蒙德詹姆斯 (Raymond James) 的威爾瑪伯迪斯 (Wilma Burdis)。威爾瑪，您的線路現已開通。

Hey, good morning. Could you give us a little bit more color on the geographic expansion and work site? Thanks.

嘿，早安。您能否向我們詳細介紹一下地理擴張和工作地點？謝謝。

Yeah, so we've, hi Wilma, this is Gary. We've undertaken this now for I think about a year and a half, but we've seen a substantial growth in our sales because of this.

是的，嗨，威爾瑪，我是加里。我們已經實施這項計畫大約一年半了，但我們的銷售額也因此大幅成長。

We expect that to continue. We are looking at new geographies, but we're being slow. And how we do that, disciplined is a better word, and we expect that to continue. So we like what we see, we expect the trend to continue in the current new geographies, if you will, the ones that we've already opened, and we are continuing to look at new opportunities.

我們預計這種情況將會持續下去。我們正在尋找新的地理位置，但進展緩慢。至於我們如何做到這一點，用「自律」這個詞更貼切，我們希望這種情況能夠持續下去。所以我們喜歡我們所看到的，我們預計這種趨勢將在當前的新地區繼續下去，如果你願意的話，我們已經開放了這些地區，我們正在繼續尋找新的機會。

And it seems like you still feel confident on delivering 50 bits of ROE improvement in 2025. Could you talk about what is ongoing there to, just, this year that's going to help improve on the expense side and any risks that you're seeing, to that to that figure? Thanks.

而且您似乎仍然對 2025 年實現 50% 的 ROE 改善充滿信心。您能否談談今年正在進行的有助於改善支出方面的措施以及您所看到的與該數字相關的任何風險？謝謝。

Sure, hey, Wilma, it's Paul. So, as I've said in the past, there's a multitude of things that is contributing to the improvement in our ROE, expenses is one, growth in the business is another, which contributes to, the growth in our insurance product margin, the higher interest rates, we've been putting, new money to work about portfolio yields for the last, several quarters, nine, I think is the number.

當然，嘿，威爾瑪，我是保羅。因此，正如我過去所說的那樣，有很多因素促成了我們的 ROE 的提高，費用是其中之一，業務的增長是另一個因素，這有助於我們保險產品利潤率的增長，更高的利率，我們一直在投入新資金，以提高過去幾個季度的投資組合收益率，我想是九個季度。

You know we're looking at the enforced business and levers we pull there, the pricing of new business, the management of capital, including the capital dynamics of the reinsurance tree with our new Bermuda company.

您知道，我們正在關注強制執行的業務和槓桿、新業務的定價、資本管理，包括我們新的百慕達公司的再保險樹的資本動態。

All of those things are contributing to, ROE improvement in 2025 and we expect we'll continue to. drive our ROE improvement over the next couple of years along with other things that you know we're currently contemplating you know to some degree more of the same, but, some other things likely on the margin as well.

所有這些都有助於 2025 年 ROE 的提高，我們預計這種趨勢還會持續下去。推動我們未來幾年 ROE 的提高，以及我們目前正在考慮的其他事項，在某種程度上，您知道更多相同的事項，但是，其他一些事項也可能會產生邊際影響。

So hopefully that's helpful moment. There's not really any single silver bullet, it's all of those things in aggregate.

希望這會有所幫助。實際上並沒有任何單一的靈丹妙藥，而是所有這些因素的綜合作用。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you very much. Our next question comes from Thomas Gallagher of Evercore ISI. Tom, your line is now open.

非常感謝。我們的下一個問題來自 Evercore ISI 的 Thomas Gallagher。湯姆，你的線路現已開通。

Good morning, Paul. Just wanted to circle back on your comment on the drag from the equity market weakness on the FIA on the on the fair value of the derivatives. What kind of magnitude was that? And I'm also asking just because obviously markets are weaker into 2, should we expect similar or a larger drag?

早安，保羅。我只是想回到你關於股市疲軟對 FIA 以及衍生性商品公允價值造成拖累的評論。那是什麼程度呢？而且我還想問，只是因為市場顯然在 2 點左右走弱，我們是否應該預期類似或更大的阻力？

Yeah. So the magnitude in the first quarter time was about $25 million. If we were to have another, say 5%, I think was the equities were down about 5% in the quarter that translated to the $25 million. Again, mostly that was giving back the benefit that we saw in, previous quarters when the when the markets were up. If we were, we'd have to be down another 15% at a similar order of magnitude impact in the second quarter.

是的。因此第一季的規模約為 2500 萬美元。如果我們再增加 5%，我認為本季股票將下跌約 5%，相當於 2,500 萬美元。再次強調，這主要是回饋了我們在前幾季市場上漲時所看到的好處。如果是這樣，那麼第二季我們的銷售額將再下降 15%，影響幅度也將達到類似的程度。

So it, the impact declines, from where we are today versus where we are in December and really depends on kind of where you are. The other thing I would say, Tom, is it's entirely timing, right? The whole thing, nets to zero over the one year, if you're thinking about one option, it would be net zero over the life of that 1 year option. So it's really just timing.

因此，與 12 月相比，現在的影響力正在下降，這實際上取決於你所在的位置。湯姆，我想說的另一件事是，這完全是時機問題，對嗎？整個事情，在一年內淨值為零，如果你考慮一個選項，那麼在一年期的期權有效期內，它將是淨值為零。所以這其實只是時間問題。

Got it, Paul. So you, you'll earn some of that back over the balance of the year. Is that the right way to think about it as the options expire?

明白了，保羅。因此，您將在今年剩餘的時間內賺回其中的一部分。當期權到期時，這是正確的想法嗎？

I mean in the context of a single option, yes, in the context of the entire portfolio, it's going to move up and down with equities, with varying degrees of magnitude, but if you put the thing in runoff, yes, it would all unwind to zero. If you're looking at calendar year Q1.

我的意思是，就單一選擇權而言，是的，就整個投資組合而言，它會隨著股票價格上下波動，幅度各不相同，但如果你把它投入到流失中，是的，它就會全部歸零。如果您正在查看日曆年第一季。

Guess similar. Gotcha. Okay, thanks. And then similar question for the Med advantage revenue recognition drag on GAAP is there where there are also similar impacts on, cash flows? How should we think about that?

猜想類似。明白了。好的，謝謝。那麼，對於 Med 優勢收入確認對 GAAP 的拖累，是否有類似的問題，對現金流量也有類似的影響？我們該如何看待這個問題？

Yeah, so the cash flows are, much simpler, right? You sell a policy and the cash flows that you would expect emerge from there. This is just pure accounting, right? You've got to predict, estimate what the lifetime cash flows will be and on that basis, you book your revenue and your expenses and your income.

是的，那麼現金流就簡單多了，對吧？您出售一份保單，您期望的現金流就會從中產生。這只是純粹的會計，對嗎？你必須預測、估計一生的現金流，並在此基礎上記錄你的收入、支出和收益。

So you would have had stronger cash flows then as reported from a GAAP perspective in Q1, is that a fair.

因此，正如第一季從 GAAP 角度報告的那樣，您的現金流會更強勁，這是公平的嗎？

Yeah, for sure I mean what' happening in Q1 is by virtue of going from. The three primary carriers, where we don't apply any constraints to smaller carriers where we do, there's an experience adjustment that's translating to, the result that we booked in the quarter.

是的，我當然是指第一季發生的事情。對於三大主要承運商，我們不會對較小的承運商施加任何限制，我們會根據經驗進行調整，這將轉化為我們在本季度預訂的結果。

Okay, thanks.

好的，謝謝。

Great, thank you very much. We currently have no further questions, so I'd like to hand back to Adam Orville for any further remarks.

太好了，非常感謝。我們目前沒有其他問題，因此我想將發言權交還給亞當·奧維爾 (Adam Orville)，以便他發表進一步的評論。

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for participating in today's call. As a reminder, if you are interested in receiving details on our upcoming investor briefing, please ensure that you are signed up to receive our email alerts. Have a great rest of your day.

謝謝接線員，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。提醒一下，如果您有興趣了解我們即將舉行的投資者簡報會的詳細信息，請確保您已註冊接收我們的電子郵件提醒。祝您今天剩餘的時間過得愉快。

As we conclude today's call, we'd like to thank everyone for joining. You will have disconnect your lines.

在今天的電話會議結束時，我們要感謝大家的參與。您將必須斷開您的線路。