CNO Financial Group Inc (CNO) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the CNO Group Financial second-quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) My name is Karlie, and I'll be coordinating the call today.

歡迎參加 CNO Group Financial 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）我叫卡莉，今天我將協調通話。

I would now like to hand over to Adam Auvil to begin.

我現在想請 Adam Auvil 開始。

Good morning and thank you for joining us on CNO Financial Group's second quarter 2024 earnings conference all. Today's presentation will include remarks from Gary Bhojwani, Chief Executive Officer; and Paul McDonough, Chief Financial Officer. Following the presentation, we will also have other business leaders available for the question-and-answer period.

早上好，感謝您參加 CNO 金融集團 2024 年第二季財報會議。今天的演講將包括執行長加里·博瓦尼 (Gary Bhojwani) 的演講；和財務長保羅·麥克唐納。演講結束後，我們也將邀請其他商界領袖參與問答環節。

During this conference call, we will be referring to information contained in yesterday's press release. You can obtain the release by visiting the media section of our website at cnoinc.com. This morning's presentation is also available in the Investors section of our website and was filed in a Form 8-K yesterday. We expect to file our Form 10-Q and posted on our website on or before August 7.

在本次電話會議中，我們將參考昨天新聞稿中包含的資訊。您可以透過造訪我們網站 cnoinc.com 的媒體部分來取得該新聞稿。今天早上的簡報也可以在我們網站的投資者部分找到，並在昨天以 8-K 表格形式提交。我們預計在 8 月 7 日或之前提交 10-Q 表格並發佈在我們的網站上。

Let me remind you that any forward-looking statements we make today are subject to a number of factors, which may cause actual results to be materially different than those contemplated by the forward-looking statements.

讓我提醒您，我們今天所做的任何前瞻性陳述都受到許多因素的影響，這些因素可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述預期的結果有重大差異。

Today's presentation contains a number of non-GAAP measures, which should not be considered as substitutes for the most directly comparable GAAP measures. You'll find a reconciliation of the non-GAAP measures to the corresponding GAAP measures in the appendix.

今天的演示包含許多非公認會計準則衡量標準，不應將其視為最直接可比較的公認會計準則衡量標準的替代品。您將在附錄中找到非 GAAP 衡量標準與對應 GAAP 衡量標準的調整表。

Throughout the presentation, we'll be making performance comparisons, and unless otherwise specified, any comparisons made will refer to changes between second quarter 2024 and second quarter 2023.

在整個演示過程中，我們將進行效能比較，除非另有說明，否則所做的任何比較都將參考 2024 年第二季與 2023 年第二季之間的變化。

And with that, I'll turn the call over to Gary.

然後，我會將電話轉給加里。

Thanks, Adam. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us. CNO delivered excellent financial and operating performance in the quarter. Operating earnings per diluted share were $1.05, up 94%. Our strong results were broad-based across earnings, production and capital.

謝謝，亞當。大家早安，感謝您加入我們。CNO 在本季度取得了出色的財務和營運表現。稀釋後每股營業收益為 1.05 美元，成長 94%。我們的強勁業績在獲利、生產和資本方面都有廣泛的基礎。

Our momentum over the past several quarters is establishing a baseline of consistent and repeatable results. We are seeing the green shoots of our strong sales growth beginning to translate into earnings growth.

我們過去幾季的勢頭正在建立一致和可重複結果的基線。我們看到強勁的銷售成長的萌芽開始轉化為獲利成長。

On a consolidated basis, we posted our eighth consecutive quarter of sales production growth and our sixth consecutive quarter of growth in producing agent counts. Total new annualized premium was up 4% across the enterprise. Earnings benefited from favorable insurance product margin and strong investment results, reflecting growth in the business and continued expansion of the portfolio book yield.

在綜合基礎上，我們公佈了連續第八個季度的銷售產量增長和連續第六個季度的生產代理商數量增長。整個企業新增年化保費總額增加了 4%。獲利受益於有利的保險產品利潤率和強勁的投資業績，反映了業務的成長和投資組合帳面收益率的持續擴大。

Our new money rate exceeded 6% for a sixth consecutive quarter. Capital and liquidity remained well above target levels after returning $77 million to shareholders. Book value per diluted share, excluding AOCI, was $36, up 11%.

我們的新貨幣利率連續第六個季度超過 6%。在向股東返還 7,700 萬美元後，資本和流動性仍遠高於目標水準。稀釋後每股帳面價值（不包括 AOCI）為 36 美元，成長 11%。

Each component of our business is delivering top performance as demonstrated by sales momentum in both Consumer and Worksite, a growing distribution force, continued solid and sustainable earnings, our excellent capital position and raising full year guidance on earnings and cash flow.

我們業務的每個組成部分都在提供最佳業績，消費者和工作場所的銷售勢頭、不斷增長的分銷力量、持續穩定和可持續的盈利、我們卓越的資本狀況以及提高全年盈利和現金流指引都證明了這一點。

Turning to slide five. As a reminder, last quarter, we introduced an expanded Growth Scorecard to sharpen focus on the three key drivers of our performance: production, distribution and investments in capital. We are pleased that all of our Growth Scorecard metrics are up in the quarter. I'll discuss each division in the next two slides. Paul will cover investments in capital in more detail during his remarks.

翻到第五張幻燈片。提醒一下，上個季度，我們推出了擴展的成長記分卡，以更加關注我們業績的三個關鍵驅動因素：生產、分銷和資本投資。我們很高興看到本季所有成長記分卡指標均有所上升。我將在接下來的兩張幻燈片中討論每個部門。保羅將在演講中更詳細地討論資本投資。

Beginning with the Consumer division on slide six. Sales momentum continued for a seventh consecutive quarter. Solid execution and sustainable sales growth continue to drive the division's strong financial performance.

從幻燈片第六頁的消費者部門開始。銷售動能連續第七個季度持續。紮實的​​執行力和可持續的銷售成長繼續推動該部門強勁的財務業績。

Our differentiated capabilities that marry a virtual connection with our established in-person agent force to complete the critical last mile of sales and delivery service continue to be well received by our target customers. Total NAP was up 2%. NAP from field sales was up 8%. Health NAP was up 18%, driven by continued momentum with new and enhanced products.

我們的差異化能力將虛擬連接與我們現有的面對面代理團隊相結合，以完成關鍵的最後一英里銷售和交付服務，繼續受到我們的目標客戶的好評。NAP 總額上漲 2%。現場銷售的 NAP 成長了 8%。在新產品和增強型產品持續成長的推動下，Health NAP 上漲了 18%。

Our Medicare portfolio continues to deliver strong sales growth. Medicare Supplement NAP was up 16%, and Medicare Advantage sales were up 78%. As a reminder, Medicare Advantage fees and sales are not reflected in that. As we have often shared by offering both Medicare Supplement and Medicare Advantage products, we provide more coverage options for customers.

我們的醫療保險產品組合持續帶來強勁的銷售成長。Medicare Supplement NAP 成長了 16%，Medicare Advantage 銷售額成長了 78%。提醒一下，Medicare Advantage 費用和銷售額並未反映在其中。正如我們經常透過提供 Medicare Supplement 和 Medicare Advantage 產品所分享的那樣，我們為客戶提供了更多的承保選擇。

The balance and diversification of our Medicare portfolio is an important part of how we serve the middle-income market. With nearly 11,000 people turning 65 every day in the United States Medicare distribustion is a year on business for us.

我們的醫療保險投資組合的平衡和多元化是我們服務中等收入市場的重要組成部分。在美國，每天有近 11,000 人年滿 65 歲，醫療保險的發放對我們來說是忙碌的一年。

As consumers age into Medicare, they value trust and seek guidance to help make an informed decision about how they receive their benefits. Our 1,000s of dedicated field agents who can make an in-person visit to nearly every county in the United States are uniquely positioned to serve this market.

隨著消費者逐漸加入醫療保險，他們重視信任並尋求指導，以幫助他們就如何獲得福利做出明智的決定。我們的 1,000 名專業現場代理商可以親自訪問美國幾乎每個縣，他們在服務這個市場方面擁有獨特的優勢。

Long-Term Care NAP was up 88% on the continued strength of our long-term Care Fundamental Plus product that we launched last year. The strong response for this product underscores the growing demand from our clients for practical long-term care solutions.

由於我們去年推出的長期照護基礎增強版產品持續走強，長期照護 NAP 上漲了 88%。此產品的強烈反響凸顯了我們的客戶對實用的長期照護解決方案日益增長的需求。

Our LTC products are designed for the middle market consumer. 99% of the policies have benefit periods of two years or less, and more than 90% have benefit periods of one year or less. These plans cover essential costs for one to two years and offer a balanced affordable approach to funding care.

我們的 LTC 產品專為中端市場消費者設計。 99%的保單受益期限為兩年或以下，90%以上的保單受益期限為一年或以下。這些計劃涵蓋一到兩年的基本費用，並提供平衡且負擔得起的護理資助方法。

Life production was down in the quarter, driven by lower spend on direct-to-consumer market. As we shared last quarter, we managed our D2C business based on advertising efficiency. In the second quarter, we reduced our television marketing spend in response to higher lead costs. This stems from increased competition for television media space, which tends to spike during presidential election cycle.

由於直接面向消費者市場的支出減少，該季度的壽險產量有所下降。正如我們上季度分享的那樣，我們根據廣告效率來管理 D2C 業務。在第二季度，我們減少了電視行銷支出，以應對更高的領先成本。這是由於電視媒體空間的競爭加劇，這種競爭在總統選舉週期往往會加劇。

Meanwhile, we continue to grow our non-television direct response channels such as web and digital, which were up 4% in the quarter and now accounts for approximately one-quarter of our D2C Life sales.

同時，我們繼續發展網路和數位等非電視直接反應管道，該管道在本季度增長了 4%，目前約占我們 D2C Life 銷售額的四分之一。

Annuity collected premiums were up 9% and account values were up 5%. Our strong annuity performance was driven by higher premium per policy, which was up 9%. We continue to experience stability in our block, which benefits from our captive distribution and the long-term relationships that our agents build with customers.

年金收取保費上漲 9%，帳戶價值上漲 5%。我們強勁的年金業績是由每份保單保費上漲推動的，保費上漲了 9%。我們的區塊持續保持穩定，這得益於我們的專屬分銷以及我們的代理商與客戶建立的長期關係。

Client assets in brokerage and advisory were up 24% for the quarter to a record $3.6 billion. New accounts were up 9%. This is now our fifth consecutive quarter of brokerage and advisory growth. When combined with our annuity account values, our clients now entrust us with more than $15 billion of their assets.

本季經紀和諮詢領域的客戶資產成長了 24%，達到創紀錄的 36 億美元。新帳戶成長 9%。這是我們的經紀和諮詢業務連續第五個季度成長。與我們的年金帳戶價值相結合，我們的客戶現在將超過 150 億美元的資產委託給我們。

Recruiting continues to be favorable and reflects our eighth consecutive quarter of year-over-year gains. Producing agent count was up 3%, our sixth consecutive quarter of growth.

招聘情況持續良好，反映出我們連續第八個季度同比增長。製作代理商數量增加了 3%，這是我們連續第六個季度成長。

Next, slide seven and our Worksite Division performance. We posted our second highest quarter ever for Life and Health NAP with sales up 18%. For eight of the last nine quarters, Worksite insurance sales have delivered at least 15% growth.

接下來，第七張投影片和我們的工地部門的表現。我們發布了生命與健康 NAP 有史以來第二高的季度銷售額，銷售額成長了 18%。在過去 9 個季度中的 8 個季度，Worksite 保險銷售額至少實現了 15% 的成長。

We are very pleased with how our Worksite insurance offerings are delivering sustained growth for our business and value for our clients. Fee sales were up 24%. As a reminder, this metric reflects the annual contract value of benefit services sold in the quarter and is a leading indicator of fee revenue growth. Our benefit services strategy remains a priority for 2024 and beyond.

我們對我們的工地保險產品如何為我們的業務帶來持續成長並為客戶創造價值感到非常高興。手續費銷售額成長 24%。提醒一下，該指標反映了本季銷售的福利服務的年度合約價值，是費用收入成長的領先指標。我們的福利服務策略仍然是 2024 年及以後的優先事項。

Producing agent count was up 25%, our ninth consecutive quarter of growth. First year producing agent count was up 33%. We continue to see solid agent retention across all cohorts and healthy productivity levels. New products and strategic initiatives continue to deliver sales growth for Worksite in the quarter. I'll briefly highlight three programs that are generating meaningful results.

製作代理商數量增加了 25%，這是我們連續第九個季度成長。第一年生產代理商數量增加了 33%。我們繼續看到所有群體的座席保留率都很高，生產力水準也很健康。新產品和策略舉措持續推動 Worksite 本季的銷售成長。我將簡要地強調三個正在產生有意義成果的計劃。

First, the new products that we introduced last year are driving sales growth. Accident insurance sales were up 27% and critical illness sales were up 16%.

首先，我們去年推出的新產品正在推動銷售成長。意外保險銷售額成長 27%，重大疾病銷售額成長 16%。

Second, our geographic expansion initiative accounted for 32% of our total sales growth in the quarter, the third consecutive quarter of meaningful contribution from this program. This initiative targets areas where we've identified strategic opportunities to grow our market share and footprint.

其次，我們的地域擴張計畫佔本季總銷售額成長的 32%，這是該計畫連續第三個季度做出有意義的貢獻。該計劃針對的是我們已確定擴大市場份額和足跡的戰略機會的領域。

Finally, in 2023, we launched an initiative to help agents cultivate and acquire new employer groups for insurance sales. We're experiencing strong momentum from this program alongside continued growth from reservicing existing clients. New employer groups were up 8% as compared to the same period last year, and NAP from new group clients was up 90%.

最後，在2023年，我們發起了一項計劃，幫助代理人培養和取得新的保險銷售雇主群體。我們從該計劃中感受到了強勁的動力，同時也從現有客戶的預訂中獲得了持續成長。新雇主團體較去年成長8%，新團體客戶NAP成長90%。

And with that, I'll turn it over to Paul.

有了這個，我會把它交給保羅。

Thanks, Gary, and good morning, everyone. Turning to the financial highlights on slide 8. It was really an exceptional quarter across the Board. Net operating income up 84% in whole dollars. 94% on a per share basis, driven by improved product margins and investment returns coupled with better operating leverage and fewer shares outstanding.

謝謝加里，大家早安。轉向幻燈片 8 上的財務亮點。這確實是一個非常出色的季度。以美元計算的淨營業收入成長了 84%。每股成長 94%，這得益於產品利潤和投資回報的提高，以及更好的營運槓桿和更少的流通股。

The expense ratio was 19.31% on a trailing 12-month basis, down 31 basis points versus the prior year period. Free cash flow generation was strong. Holdco liquidity benefited from the $700 million debt offering in May.

過去 12 個月的費用率為 19.31%，較去年同期下降 31 個基點。自由現金流產生強勁。Holdco 的流動性受益於 5 月發行的 7 億美元債券。

We deployed $60 million of excess capital on share repurchases in the quarter, contributing to a 6% reduction in weighted average diluted shares outstanding year-over-year. On a trailing 12-month basis through June 30, operating return on equity was 11.2% as reported and 10% ex-significant items.

本季我們部署了 6000 萬美元的超額資本用於股票回購，導致加權平均稀釋後流通股年減 6%。截至 6 月 30 日的過去 12 個月，營運股本回報率為 11.2%，除重大專案回報率為 10%。

Turning to Slide 9. Insurance product margin was very strong in the quarter, up 23%, reflecting sustained growth in the business and favorable experience, resulting in margin growth across all three product categories.

轉向幻燈片 9。本季保險產品利潤率非常強勁，成長了 23%，反映出業務的持續成長和良好的體驗，導致所有三個產品類別的利潤率均實現成長。

Fixed indexed annuity margins benefited from improved yield and growth in the block. The improved yield was driven by portfolio optimization trades in the quarter, where we selectively sold certain lower-yielding securities and reinvested in higher-yielding securities.

固定指數年金利潤率受益於收益率的提高和整體成長。收益率的提高是由本季的投資組合最佳化交易所推動的，我們選擇性地出售了某些低收益證券並重新投資於高收益證券。

Other annuity margins benefited from reserve releases due to higher mortality on larger closed block policies. Long-term care margins reflect favorable claims experience in the current period as compared to unfavorable claims experienced in the prior period.

由於較大的封閉式集體保單的死亡率較高，其他年金利潤率則受惠於準備金釋放。長期照護利潤反映了當前期間有利的索賠經歷與前期經歷的不利索賠的比較。

Finally, Traditional Life margins benefited from growth in the block and lower advertising expense.

最後，傳統人壽的利潤率受益於整體的成長和廣告費用的降低。

Turning to slide 10. Net investment income results were strong in the quarter. The new money rate was 6.41%, the sixth consecutive quarter above 6%. The average yield on allocated investments was 4.81%, up 16 basis points year-over-year. The larger-than-trend increase was due to the portfolio optimization trades that I mentioned earlier.

轉到投影片 10。本季淨投資收益結果強勁。新貨幣利率為6.41%，連續第六個季度高於6%。配置投資平均報酬率為4.81%，較去年同期上升16個基點。大於趨勢的成長是由於我之前提到的投資組合優化交易。

The increase in yield along with growth in the business drove a 6% increase in net investment income allocated to products for the quarter. Investment income not allocated to products was up 60% with alternative investment results slightly below expectations, but much improved from recent quarters. We completed a $750 million three-year FABN offering in the quarter, increasing the spread income we earn on the program.

收益率的提高以及業務的成長推動本季分配給產品的淨投資收入成長了 6%。未分配到產品的投資收益成長了 60%，另類投資結果略低於預期，但較最近幾季有了很大改善。我們在本季完成了 7.5 億美元的三年期 FABN 發行，增加了我們透過該計劃賺取的利差收入。

Total investment income was up 12%. Our new investments in the quarter comprised approximately $840 million of assets with an average rating of A and an average duration of seven years. Our new investments are summarized in more detail on slides 20 and 21 of the presentation.

總投資收益成長12%。我們本季的新投資包括約 8.4 億美元的資產，平均評級為 A，平均期限為七年。我們的新投資在簡報的投影片 20 和 21 中有更詳細的總結。

Turning to slide 11. The market value of invested assets grew 5% in the quarter. Approximately 97% of our fixed maturity portfolio at quarter end was investment-grade rated with an average rating of A, reflecting our up and quality bias over the last several years.

轉到投影片 11。本季投資資產市值成長 5%。截至季末，我們約 97% 的固定期限投資組合獲得投資等級評級，平均評級為 A，反映了我們過去幾年的向上和品質偏向。

Our commercial real estate portfolio continues to perform within expectations, reflecting conservative underwriting and proactive management. We've again included some summary metrics in slides 22 and 23 of the presentation.

我們的商業房地產投資組合繼續表現在預期之內，反映出保守的核保和積極的管理。我們再次在簡報的投影片 22 和 23 中包含了一些摘要指標。

Turning to slide 12. Our capital position remains strong. At quarter end, our consolidated RBC ratio was 394%. Available Holdco liquidity was $429 million at quarter end, benefiting from this quarter's debt issuance and net of $500 million that will be used to pay down the senior notes that mature in May of next year.

轉到投影片 12。我們的資本狀況依然強勁。截至季末，我們的綜合 RBC 比率為 394%。截至季末，Holdco 的可用流動資金為 4.29 億美元，受益於本季的債務發行，扣除將用於償還明年 5 月到期的優先票據的 5 億美元。

Leverage at quarter end was 32% as reported. Adjusting for the senior notes that will be paid off at maturity in May of next year, leverage at quarter end was 25.5%, up from 22.9% at March 31 and just inside the low end of our target range.

據報道，季度末槓桿率為 32%。在明年 5 月到期的優先票據進行調整後，季末槓桿率為 25.5%，高於 3 月 31 日的 22.9%，略高於我們目標範圍的下限。

Turning to slide 13 and our '24 guidance. We are raising guidance on operating earnings per share to $3.30 to $3.50 for the full year, excluding significant items. This increase reflects the strong second quarter results, along with a modest improvement in outlook for the second half of the year. This also includes an expectation that alternative investments generate a return in line with the long-term run rate assumption of 9% to 10% for the remainder of the year, consistent with our initial guidance assumptions. As a component of this change, we're narrowing the expense ratio range to 19.0% to 19.2%.

轉向幻燈片 13 和我們的 '24 指南。我們將全年每股營業利潤指引上調至 3.30 至 3.50 美元（不包括重要項目）。這一成長反映了第二季度的強勁業績，以及下半年前景的適度改善。這也包括另類投資產生的回報與今年剩餘時間內 9% 至 10% 的長期運行率假設相符的預期，這與我們最初的指導假設一致。作為這項變更的一部分，我們將費用比率範圍縮小至 19.0% 至 19.2%。

In addition, we are raising guidance on excess cash flow to the holding company to $200 million to $250 million. This favorable adjustment is primarily driven by higher statutory earnings in the first half of the year and the refinement of expectations on capital consumption within the operating companies.

此外，我們還將流向控股公司的超額現金流指引提高至 2 億至 2.5 億美元。這項有利的調整主要是由於上半年法定獲利的增加以及營運公司內部資本消耗預期的細化所推動的。

Recall that the high end of the prior range assumes status quo in terms of the health of the economy and the risk profile of our investment portfolio. Both of those variables have remained fairly constant year-to-date, and we expect will remain so through year-end.

回想一下，先前範圍的高端假設了經濟健康狀況和我們投資組合的風險狀況的現狀。年初至今，這兩個變數都保持相當穩定，我們預計到年底都將保持不變。

We will continue to manage to a consolidated RBC ratio of 375% in our US-based insurance companies and minimum Holdco liquidity of $150 million over the long term, although we expect to end 2024 well above those target levels. No change to our target leverage of between 25% and 28%.

長期來看，我們將繼續將美國保險公司的綜合 RBC 比率控制在 375%，控股公司流動性最低控制在 1.5 億美元，不過我們預計 2024 年底將遠高於這些目標水準。我們的目標槓桿率保持在 25% 至 28% 之間，沒有變化。

Lastly, we have decided to change the timing of our annual actuarial review to the third quarter from the fourth quarter. This timing aligns better with our annual planning process and is more in line with the industry standard.

最後，我們決定將年度精算審核的時間從第四季改為第三季。這個時間安排更符合我們的年度規劃流程，也更符合業界標準。

And with that, I'll turn it back over to Gary.

有了這個，我會把它轉回給加里。

Thanks Paul. We delivered excellent financial performance in the quarter across the board and the green shoots of eight consecutive quarters of strong sales momentum are beginning to translate into earnings growth.

謝謝保羅。我們在本季度全面實現了出色的財務業績，連續八個季度強勁銷售勢頭的萌芽正開始轉化為盈利增長。

CNO remained well positioned with the right products and unique distribution capability to serve the middle-income market. Our capital position, our liquidity and our cash flow generating power of the company remain robust.

CNO 憑藉合適的產品和獨特的分銷能力保持良好的地位，為中等收入市場提供服務。公司的資本狀況、流動性和現金流產生能力仍然強勁。

We are establishing a baseline of consistent and repeatable results, and we expect to build on this foundation as we look to the second half of the year. We thank you for your support of and interest in CNO Financial Group.

我們正在建立一致和可重複結果的基線，我們預計在今年下半年將在此基礎上繼續發展。感謝您對 CNO 金融集團的支持與關注。

We will now open it up to questions. Operator?

我們現在將開放提問。操作員？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

John Barnidge, Piper Sandler.

約翰·巴尼奇，派珀·桑德勒。

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. It sounds like the increase in the EPS guide and cash flow is mainly coming from better-than-expected earnings performance in the first half of the year. But are there certain items that may be flattered Q2s earnings. Were above expectations that you think could continue into the second half of the year? Thank you.

早安.謝謝你給我這個機會。聽起來每股盈餘指引和現金流的成長主要來自於上半年優於預期的獲利表現。但是否有某些項目可能會影響第二季的收益？您認為下半年這種情況是否會持續高於預期？謝謝。

Hey, John, it's Paul. Yeah, there are two things that helped drive the really strong second quarter results that could certainly continue into the second-half. And they include, number one, the portfolio yield, which is benefiting from the higher new money rates, about 6% now for sixth consecutive quarters, enhanced a bit in the second quarter by the portfolio optimization trade that we talked about.

嘿，約翰，我是保羅。是的，有兩件事幫助推動了第二季度真正強勁的業績，而且這種業績肯定會持續到下半年。其中包括，第一，投資組合收益率，受益於較高的新貨幣利率，目前已連續六個季度約為 6%，我們談到的投資組合優化交易在第二季度略有提高。

So I don't expect that, that will change in the second half. I think rates generally will remain high. There'll certainly may be one, maybe two Fed cuts. But still, as compared to the current portfolio yield, still a bit of a tailwind.

所以我預計下半年情況不會改變。我認為利率總體上會維持在高位。聯準會肯定可能會降息一次，也許兩次。但與目前的投資組合收益率相比，仍然有點順風順水。

We may do a bit more of the portfolio optimization trade. So I think that, that should benefit the second half to some degree. The second thing is claims experience, and obviously, that can go either way, plus or minus. And that's one of the reasons for the range around a point estimate of EPS. So I'd leave it at that, John.

我們可能會做更多的投資組合優化交易。所以我認為，這應該在某種程度上有利於下半年。第二件事是索賠經驗，顯然，這可以是正數，也可以是負數。這就是 EPS 點估計值範圍的原因之一。所以我就這樣吧，約翰。

Thank you very much. A quarter ago, you loosely talked about getting your ROE to peer levels and talked about it being around 11% to 14% per peer levels. How do you define the time frame to get there?

非常感謝。一個季度前，您鬆散地談論瞭如何將 ROE 提升到同行水平，並談到將 ROE 提高到同行水平的 11% 至 14% 左右。您如何定義實現此目標的時間範圍？

Hey, John, so we're not putting a precise time range on that. But I would say that it's not something that we're planning to do in the future and haven't already sort of begun. We are very focused on it, as we've mentioned over the last couple of quarters.

嘿，約翰，所以我們沒有為此設定精確的時間範圍。但我想說，這不是我們計劃在未來做的事情，而且還沒開始。正如我們在過去幾個季度中提到的那樣，我們非常關注它。

There are a number of initiatives that are already underway that will enhance ROE over the long term. I'd say if you look at the ROE on a trailing 12-month basis through June 30 at 10% ex significant items, which reflects a strong second half of last year and a strong first-half of this year.

有許多舉措已經在進行中，這些舉措將長期提高股本回報率。我想說的是，如果你看看截至 6 月 30 日的過去 12 個月的 ROE，除重要項目外的淨資產收益率為 10%，這反映了去年下半年和今年上半年的強勁表現。

So arguably, perhaps at the high end of a range of what you might estimate as current run rate, but clearly reflects an improvement of favorable trend in run rate ROE over the last couple of years, and that's something that we remain committed to. And in the long run, without putting a specific time frame on it, with the goal of getting more in line with the industry peer group.

因此，可以說，也許處於您估計的當前運行率範圍的高端，但清楚地反映了過去幾年運行率 ROE 的有利趨勢的改善，這是我們仍然致力於的事情。從長遠來看，沒有設定具體的時間框架，目標是與業界同業更加一致。

Yes, John, I'd like to just supplement Paul's comments, and I'd like you to take away two things from my comments. Number one, and Paul touched on this, I want you to know that we remain very focused on it. You're correct that we've been talking about it for a few quarters.

是的，約翰，我只想補充保羅的評論，我希望你從我的評論中刪除兩件事。第一，保羅談到了這一點，我想讓你知道我們仍然非常關注它。你是對的，我們已經討論了幾個季度了。

And I want to just remind all of you a little bit of historical context there. We had some work to do several years ago to kind of turn the organization around clean up the balance sheet. The mandate then was to begin growing the business, which we did. Unfortunately, COVID intervened for us and everybody else.

我想提醒大家一點歷史背景。幾年前，我們需要做一些工作來扭轉組織結構，清理資產負債表。當時的任務是開始發展業務，我們做到了。不幸的是，新冠病毒對我們和其他人進行了乾預。

Now that the growth engine has fired back up again and we're past COVID, now we need to optimize the results. And so we're very committed to that. This is something that we're focused on. And the second thing that I would want you to know is that we're pleased with the progress, but nowhere near satisfied with the results.

現在，成長引擎再次啟動，我們已經度過了新冠疫情，現在我們需要優化結果。所以我們非常致力於這一點。這是我們關注的重點。我想讓您知道的第二件事是，我們對進展感到滿意，但對結果卻不滿意。

We believe we can continue to drive this ROE upwards. We've got line of sight on it. We've got a number of action plans that we're working on. We're not yet in a place where we want to make specific commitments to those numbers. But I can assure you, we are nowhere near satisfied and we've got line of sight how to continue to drive it.

我們相信我們可以繼續推動股本報酬率上升。我們已經看到它了。我們正在製定一些行動計劃。我們還沒有達到對這些數字做出具體承諾的程度。但我可以向你保證，我們還遠遠不夠，我們已經知道如何繼續推動它。

Thanks for the answers.

感謝您的回答。

Ryan Krueger, Stifel.

瑞恩·克魯格，斯蒂菲爾。

Hey good morning. Thanks, good morning. First question was on, I guess, just on free cash flow guidance. To what extent was the increase driven by your first half results being better than expected versus other refinement of your cash flow expectations on an ongoing basis?

嘿早安。謝謝，早安。我想第一個問題是關於自由現金流指導。與持續改善的現金流量預期相比，上半年業績優於預期在多大程度上推動了成長？

Hey Ryan, it's Paul. So the way that I'm thinking about it is sort of two major sort of dynamics. Number one, you'll recall that when we initially provided the guidance of $140 million to $200 million, we indicated that the high end of that range was assuming status quo in the economy, meaning that we didn't expect that if the economy stayed healthy that we wouldn't be consuming capital as a result of, if the economy were to erode, that would have consumed capital through adverse credit migration, higher capital charges. That hasn't happened. So that kind of moves us to the high end of the range.

嘿瑞安，我是保羅。所以我的思考方式是兩種主要的動力。第一，您會記得，當我們最初提供 1.4 億美元至 2 億美元的指導時，我們表示該範圍的高端是假設經濟現狀，這意味著我們沒有預計到如果經濟保持不變健康的是，我們不會消耗資本，因為如果經濟衰退，就會透過不利的信貸遷移和更高的資本費用來消耗資本。那還沒有發生。因此，這將我們推向了該範圍的高端。

And then the other component that sort of associated with the high end of the range was that we would be status quo in terms of the risk profile of the portfolio, meaning we wouldn't pivot to higher risk in the portfolio, which would consume capital and drive it to the lower end of the range.

然後，與範圍高端相關的另一個組成部分是，我們在投資組合的風險狀況方面將保持現狀，這意味著我們不會轉向投資組合中的更高風險，這會消耗資本並將其驅動至範圍的下限。

So both of those things have been fairly constant, which means that through June, we're sort of tethered to the high end of the range in the context of those two things. We expect that will remain so. So that kind of drives the new low end of the range at $200 million.

因此，這兩件事一直相當穩定，這意味著到六月，我們在這兩件事的背景下都被束縛在範圍的高端。我們預計這種情況將持續下去。因此，該範圍的新低端為 2 億美元。

And then the high end of the range is primarily driven by the very strong first half results, primarily in the second quarter with some expectation of some modest continuation of favorable trends in the second half.

然後，該範圍的高端主要是由非常強勁的上半年業績（主要是第二季度）推動的，並且預計下半年有利趨勢將溫和延續。

Great, thank you. And then can you give any more color on just what you're seeing on claim trends within long-term care? You've had pretty favorable results for a few quarters now.

太好了，謝謝。那麼您能否對您所看到的長期照護索賠趨勢提供更多說明？幾個季度以來，你們已經取得了相當不錯的業績。

We have and I'd say that the margin in long-term care reflects growth of the business, number one, and then also favorable claims experience, including in our older cohort that has a net to gross premium ratio capped at 100. So uncapped greater than 100, which causes favorable experience to flow directly through margin in the period as opposed to being somewhat muted in the context of LDTI. So the question is, does that continue?

我們已經說過，我想說，長期照護的利潤率反映了業務的成長，第一，然後也是有利的索賠經驗，包括我們的較老群體，其淨保費與毛保費比率上限為 100。因此，上限超過 100，這會導致在此期間有利的經驗直接透過利潤流動，而不是在 LDTI 的背景下減弱。那麼問題是，這種情況會持續下去嗎？

And as I said earlier in response to John's question, it certainly could. We're not seeing anything in the current quarter that would suggest otherwise. But it's claims experience, and that's going to bump around plus or minus. And so there's certainly the potential that we experienced less favorable claims experience in some future quarter.

正如我之前在回答約翰的問題時所說的那樣，這當然可以。我們在本季沒有看到任何其他情況。但這是索賠經驗，並且會上下波動。因此，我們在未來的某個季度肯定可能會經歷不太有利的索賠經驗。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Wes Carmichael, Autonomous.

韋斯‧卡邁克爾，《自治》。

Hey, good morning. On your raised guidance around the excess cash flows to the HoldCo, should we think about higher level of cash flows going towards buybacks in 2024? And maybe how should we think about you managing down the HoldCo cash balance versus your minimum $150 million target over time?

嘿，早安。根據您提出的有關控股公司超額現金流的指引，我們是否應該考慮在 2024 年將更高水準的現金流用於回購？也許我們應該如何看待您隨著時間的推移管理控股公司現金餘額而不是最低 1.5 億美元的目標？

Hey, guys, it's Paul. So I'd say at a very high level, there's no change to how we think about deploying excess capital. We'll continue to be disciplined and fairly measured in terms of what we do in any individual quarter. Having said that, in the wake of the debt offering in May where we issued $200 million more than the $500 million that's maturing and generating sort of a slug of excess capital, there's certainly the opportunity to accelerate the pace a bit over the next few quarters of share repurchases. And that funded a portion of the share repurchase in 2Q.

嘿，夥計們，我是保羅。所以我想說，在很高的層面上，我們對部署過剩資本的看法並沒有改變。我們將繼續遵守紀律並公平衡量我們在任何單一季度所做的事情。話雖如此，在5 月的債券發行之後，我們發行了2 億美元，比即將到期並產生大量過剩資本的5 億美元多了2 億美元，在接下來的幾個季度里肯定有機會加快步伐。這為第二季的部分股票回購提供了資金。

That's helpful, Paul. And maybe just on the surrender activity in annuities. I think overall surrenders ticked down a little bit versus the first quarter, driven by the fixed interest annuities. But can you maybe talk about the trends you saw in the quarter and if you kind of expect surrenders to moderate going forward or not?

這很有幫助，保羅。也許只是年金的退保活動。我認為，在固定利息年金的推動下，整體退保率比第一季略有下降。但您能否談談您在本季度看到的趨勢以及您是否預計未來投降會有所放緩？

Yes, surrenders just focusing on fixed indexed annuities. Surrenders are certainly higher now than they were a year ago. They do seem to have stabilized at current levels. And the current level is within our range of expectation in the current rate environment. And in that environment, we continue to grow the book. And the current interest rate environment has also driven higher yields on the portfolio, which has contributed to slightly better spreads. So I'd say that the book remains very healthy and profitable and attractive from a risk-return perspective.

是的，退保只關注固定指數年金。現在的投降人數肯定比一年前要高。它們似乎確實穩定在當前水平。在目前利率環境下，目前水準處於我們的預期範圍內。在這種環境下，我們繼續發展這本書。當前的利率環境也推動了投資組合收益率的上升，從而導致利差略有改善。所以我想說，從風險回報的角度來看，這本書仍然非常健康、有利可圖且有吸引力。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Scott Heleniak, RBC.

斯科特·海倫尼克，加拿大皇家銀行。

Yes, good morning. Thanks. You've onboarded a lot of new agents over the past couple of years. I think you said six or eight quarters in a row of agency count growth. Do you expect that to continue in the back half of the year into 2025? There's clearly a lot of interest. The recruiting is up nicely. Any thoughts there as well as can you comment on just the productivity of some of the new agents that you have hired in the past two years as you've kind of ramped that up?

是的，早安。謝謝。在過去的幾年裡，您已經聘請了許多新代理商。我想你說的是連續六到八個季度的機構數量增長。您預計這種情況會在下半年持續到 2025 年嗎？顯然有很多興趣。招募進展順利。您有什麼想法嗎？

Yes, Scott, thanks for the question. And this is Gary. So first of all, just to state the obvious, we've had several quarters of very strong growth in both Consumer and Worksite. And of course, the comparables will get tougher. There's no question about that. As that population grows, it will be harder to keep maintaining that percentage of growth. All that said, yes, I believe we can continue to grow our agent counts.

是的，斯科特，謝謝你的提問。這是加里。首先，要明確的是，我們的消費者和工作場所已經連續幾季實現了非常強勁的成長。當然，可比較性會變得更加艱難。毫無疑問。隨著人口的成長，要維持這一成長百分比將變得更加困難。話雖如此，是的，我相信我們可以繼續增加我們的代理數量。

But more importantly, we will continue to grow the productivity of those agents. We've talked about this for several quarters where we're much more focused on the productivity than the raw account, and that's really what I keep an eye on the most. And I think we can continue to grow that.

但更重要的是，我們將繼續提高這些代理商的生產力。我們已經討論這個問題好幾個季度了，我們更關註生產力而不是原始帳戶，這確實是我最關注的。我認為我們可以繼續發展這一點。

That happens because of a combination of products, services and tying in different parts of the business. As an example, we've talked frequently about how we have our direct-to-consumer business really support our field agent side of the business.

之所以會出現這種情況，是因為產品、服務以及業務不同部分的結合。舉個例子，我們經常談論我們的直接面向消費者的業務如何真正支持我們的現場代理業務。

So we feel very good about that on the Consumer side as one example. And then on the Worksite side, if you think about the geographic expansion and the new products we've launched there, those should also continue to help drive productivity.

作為一個例子，我們對消費者方面的這一點感覺非常好。然後在工作現場方面，如果您考慮到地理擴張和我們在那裡推出的新產品，這些也應該繼續有助於提高生產力。

So just to summarize, the comps will get tougher. It will be harder for us to grow the agent counts in the same percentages, but we believe we will continue to grow them. More importantly, we will continue to drive productivity. That's where the real magic will come in over the long term and that's what we're focused on.

總而言之，比賽將會變得更加艱難。我們將很難以相同的百分比增加代理數量，但我們相信我們將繼續增加它們。更重要的是，我們將繼續提高生產力。長遠來看，這才是真正的魔力所在，也是我們關注的重點。

Okay, great. And just any update on the Bermuda captive now that you have it up and running? Is that kind of running in line with expectations? Anything to comment on there?

好的，太好了。現在百慕達俘虜已經啟動並運行了，有什麼更新嗎？這樣的運行符合預期嗎？那裡有什麼要評論的嗎？

Hey, Scott, it's Paul. Definitely running in line with expectations. We've made a lot of progress building out the infrastructure on Island to support that treaty that we executed back in November of last year, both the in-force and the new business, effective 10/01. Yes, it's going as expected, we certainly have a commitment to that business and expect to grow it over time.

嘿，史考特，我是保羅。絕對符合預期。我們在島上的基礎設施建設方面取得了很大進展，以支持我們去年 11 月執行的條約，包括生效的條約和新業務，自 10 月 1 日起生效。是的，一切都按預期進行，我們當然對該業務有承諾，並希望隨著時間的推移不斷發展。

Okay. And just my final question is, I know we've talked a lot about buybacks. Is there any thought to increasing the quarterly dividend by a greater amount at some point in the future? Or is buyback still going to kind of be top priority consistent with what you've done over the past few years?

好的。我的最後一個問題是，我知道我們已經討論了很多關於回購的問題。是否考慮在未來某個時候大幅增加季度股息？或者，與過去幾年的做法一致，回購仍是重中之重？

So Scott, the dividend level is something we look at every quarter certainly, but something we look at sort of more in earnest once a year in terms of any change to the level. And as you know, our practice has been to raise it by $0.01 per share in the second quarter. I don't want to front run that. But the current yield is pretty much in line with the peer group from -- or the current dividend is in line from a yield perspective, makes sense from a payout perspective.

因此，斯科特，我們每個季度都會關注股息水平，但我們每年都會更認真地關注股息水平的任何變化。如您所知，我們的做法是在第二季將其每股提高 0.01 美元。我不想搶在前面。但目前的收益率與同業基本一致，或者說當前的股息從收益率的角度來看是一致的，從派息的角度來看是有道理的。

So I wouldn't anticipate deviation from what our practice has been. And share repurchases are -- assuming your dividend policy makes sense, which I think our current policy does, I think share repurchases are more efficient on the margin as a form of deploying excess capital.

因此，我預計不會偏離我們的做法。股票回購是－假設你的股利政策有意義，我認為我們目前的政策確實如此，我認為股票回購作為部署過剩資本的一種形式在邊際上更有效。

Great. Thanks for all the answers.

偉大的。感謝所有的答案。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Wilma Burdis, Raymond James.

威爾瑪·布爾迪斯，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Good morning. Could you talk about what drove all alt returns closer to the run rate in 2Q '24? And should we expect that trend to continue? Thanks.

早安.您能否談談是什麼促使所有替代回報更接近 2024 年第二季的運行率？我們是否應該預期這種趨勢會持續下去？謝謝。

Yes, this is Eric Johnson, and I'd be happy to -- Paul, if you don't mind, I'll be happy to jump in here.

是的，這是埃里克·約翰遜，我很樂意——保羅，如果你不介意的話，我很樂意跳到這裡。

Please.

請。

Okay. I think there were three basic factors there. One, real estate valuations were a little more stable during the period, perhaps with some relationship to anticipated changes in interest rates.

好的。我認為有三個基本因素。第一，在此期間房地產估值稍微穩定一些，這可能與預期的利率變化有一定關係。

Second, I think the value of kind of the private credit carry emerged during the period and reflected the underlying earnings stream from that allocation.

其次，我認為在此期間出現了某種私人信貸套利的價值，並反映了該配置的基本收益流。

And then thirdly, some revintaging we've been doing over the last several quarters, which is beginning to pay off in terms of our earnings streams from more current vintages.

第三，過去幾季我們一直在進行一些復古工作，這些工作開始在我們當前年份的收入流中獲得回報。

And so I think this is an area where, using Gary's term of green shoots, seeing some green shoots from some of the things we've been doing, and I hope they will continue to grow and meet expectations that Paul described earlier. I believe that will be the case as we get into later this year and early next year.

因此，我認為在這個領域，用加里的“新芽”術語來說，我們從我們一直在做的一些事情中看到了一些新芽，我希望它們能夠繼續成長並滿足保羅之前描述的期望。我相信，當我們進入今年晚些時候和明年初時，情況將會如此。

Thank you. And could you talk a little bit about what drove the reserve release and other annuities? And is that something that we could see any more activity there or not? Thanks.

謝謝。您能否談談是什麼推動了準備金和其他年金的釋放？我們是否可以看到更多的活動？謝謝。

Hey Wilma, it's Paul. So other annuities is a relatively small block of payout annuities that's in runoff. And as we've described occasionally in the past, when we see some volatility from this block, and it's always all to the plus side, and it's driven by what are typically a handful of [deaths] of the new attempts, which causes the reserve release.

嘿威瑪，我是保羅。因此，其他年金是徑流中相對較小的支付年金。正如我們過去偶爾描述的那樣，當我們看到這個區塊出現一些波動時，它總是朝著好的方向發展，並且它是由新嘗試的少數[死亡]驅動的，這會導致儲備釋放。

And in this quarter, we had five -- literally five kind of on one hand deaths that drove the very significant increase in margin in the quarter. We'll continue to have some volatility from this block for these reasons. I think it's very unlikely that we have another quarter that's this favorable, but that's the dynamic that's driving it.

在本季度，我們有五起——實際上是五起單手死亡事件，推動了本季利潤率的大幅成長。由於這些原因，我們將繼續在該區塊中遇到一些波動。我認為我們不太可能再有一個如此有利的季度，但這就是推動它的動力。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Suneet Kamath, Jefferies.

蘇尼特·卡馬斯，杰弗里斯。

Yeah, thanks. so I think we hit on most of the margin improvement across the lines. But I think two, that maybe we haven't hit on that are a little smaller, but still improved are Med Supp and Traditional Life. So can you just unpack some of the drivers of the margin benefits there?

是的，謝謝。所以我認為我們實現了大部分利潤率的改善。但我認為，也許我們沒有想到的兩個雖然規模較小，但仍然有所改進，那就是醫療供應和傳統生活。那麼，您能否解開利潤率收益的一些驅動因素呢？

Sure. Hey, Suneet, it's Paul. So at a very high level, just growth in the block and generally favorable experience, in Trad Life, it's also the lower advertising expense that flows through margin. So that's really hit at a high level.

當然。嘿，蘇尼特，我是保羅。因此，在非常高的水平上，在 Trad Life 中，只有整體成長和整體良好的體驗，同時流經利潤的廣告費用也較低。所以這確實達到了很高的水平。

Got it. And then I guess for Gary, I think on past calls, you've sort of talked about your annuity business as being different from others in the sense that you don't have a lot of churn in your book, but you actually put up some pretty good growth.

知道了。然後我想對加里來說，我想在過去的電話中，你談到了你的年金業務與其他人的不同，因為你的書中沒有太多的流失，但你實際上忍受了一些相當好的增長。

So I was just curious if you had any color on where that growth is coming from? In other words, what's funding it? Is it retirement accounts, like rollovers from 401(k) or movement from money market funds? Just curious where it's coming from and kind of how you think the outlook -- what do you think the outlook looks like going forward? Thanks.

所以我只是好奇你是否對這種增長來自哪裡有任何看法？換句話說，它的資金來源是什麼？是退休帳戶，例如 401(k) 的展期或貨幣市場基金的變動嗎？只是好奇它來自哪裡以及您如何看待前景 - 您認為未來的前景如何？謝謝。

I'll start with the last half of that question. We believe the outlook is very strong. There's 11,000 people retiring every day in the United States. As you know, the vast majority of people don't have a pension anymore. They need some kind of a floor that's going to provide guaranteed income.

我將從該問題的後半部分開始。我們相信前景非常強勁。美國每天有 11,000 人退休。如您所知，絕大多數人不再有退休金。他們需要某種能夠提供有保障的收入的底線。

And in particular, with our middle-income clients, there are very few alternatives for them that can give them a guaranteed source of income. So we believe that the future is incredibly bright. I don't have the data in front of me to tell you how much of it came from rollovers or what have you.

特別是對於我們的中等收入客戶來說，幾乎沒有其他選擇可以為他們提供有保障的收入來源。所以我們相信未來是非常光明的。我面前沒有數據可以告訴你其中有多少是來自於展期或是你有什麼。

I do know that generally speaking, we're less likely to get money from rollovers and so on than some of the other annuity writers out there, primarily because we serve a different market. I believe we saw an increase of roughly 9% in premium per annuity this past quarter. So some of it was driven just by selling larger annuities, but still relative to the average annuity writer out there or annuities quite a bit smaller and generally come from folks that are in or approaching retirement.

我確實知道，一般來說，與其他一些年金作家相比，我們不太可能從展期等方面獲得資金，主要是因為我們服務於不同的市場。我相信上個季度我們的年金保費成長了約 9%。因此，其中一些只是透過出售較大的年金來推動的，但仍然相對於普通年金作家或較小的年金而言，並且通常來自退休或即將退休的人。

And so therefore, the funds usually -- not only usually come from 401(k)s or other savings, such as that. And we expect that to continue. And we think we're going to have up quarters, down quarters, so on and so forth. But generally, if you look at the long-term trajectory of this business, we're very bullish on it. We think this is something our client base needs, and we believe we provide a really good value.

因此，資金通常不僅來自 401(k) 或其他儲蓄，例如。我們預計這種情況會持續下去。我們認為我們將會出現季度上升、下降等情況。但總的來說，如果你看看這項業務的長期發展軌跡，我們非常看好它。我們認為這是我們的客戶群所需要的，我們相信我們提供了非常好的價值。

If I could just sneak in one quick follow-up on that. So obviously, higher rates helps this business. I'm just curious like at what point, like where would rates have to go if for all of a sudden, this growth opportunity or growth outlook that you're seeing starts to fall off a bit?

如果我能快速跟進一下就好了。顯然，更高的利率有助於這項業務。我只是很好奇，如果突然之間，您看到的這種成長機會或成長前景開始略有下降，那麼利率會在什麼時候下降？

The business is, of course, impacted by interest rates in terms of what else is out there, right. So a consumer when they're making a decision, they'll look at where else they can put their money. But even if they could get a comparable rate, say, in a CD or something of this sort, it doesn't change the fact that those other products don't provide guaranteed income for life and really protect them against the risk of outliving their assets. So for that reason, I think that even if interest rates continue to go up, this growth would remain solid.

當然，就其他方面而言，該業務也受到利率的影響，對吧。因此，消費者在做出決定時，他們會考慮還能把錢花在哪裡。但即使他們能夠獲得類似的利率，例如 CD 或類似的東西，也不能改變這樣一個事實：這些其他產品不能提供終身有保障的收入，也不能真正保護他們免受壽命過長的風險。因此，我認為即使利率繼續上升，這種成長也將保持穩健。

And remember, we adjust our products and the participation rates go on depending on what's going on in the market, but we don't follow it step for step but we do adjust the benefit levels and participation rates and so on in the annuities.

請記住，我們根據市場情況調整我們的產品和參與率，但我們不會一步一步遵循它，但我們確實調整年金中的福利水平和參與率等。

So I don't know that I would say that there's a tipping point per se, there's a set number beyond which we couldn't go and continue to grow. I just don't see it working that way because of the need of the client base.

所以我不知道我會說存在一個臨界點本身，有一個設定的數字，超過這個數字我們就無法繼續成長。由於客戶群的需要，我只是不認為它會以這種方式運作。

Makes sense. Thank Gary.

有道理。謝謝加里。

There are no further questions waiting at this time. So I'd like to pass the call back over to Adam Auvil.

目前沒有其他問題等待。所以我想把電話轉給 Adam Auvil。

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for participating in today's call. Please reach out to the Investor Relations team. If you have any further questions. Have a great rest of your day.

謝謝接線員，也謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。請聯繫投資者關係團隊。如果您還有任何疑問。祝您有個愉快的一天。

This completes conference call. Thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect your lines.

這樣就完成了電話會議。感謝大家的參與。現在您可以斷開線路。