Colliers International Group Inc (CIGI) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Colliers International Second Quarter Investors Conference Call. Today's call is being recorded. Legal counsel requires us to advise the discussion scheduled to take place today may contain forward-looking statements that involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties. Actual results may be materially different from any future results, performance or achievements contemplated in the forward-looking statements.

歡迎參加高力國際第二季投資者電話會議。今天的通話正在錄音。法律顧問要求我們告知今天計劃進行的討論可能包含涉及已知和未知風險和不確定性的前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中預期的任何未來結果、績效或成就有重大差異。

Additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to materially differ from those in the forward-looking statements is contained in the company's annual information form as filed with the Canadian Securities Administrators and in the company's annual report form 40-F as filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果存在重大差異的因素的更多資​​訊包含在公司向加拿大證券管理局提交的年度資訊表和公司向美國提交的年度報告表 40-F 中。證券交易委員會。

As a reminder, today's call is being recorded today is August 2, 2023. And at this time, for opening remarks and introductions, I would like to turn the call over to the Global Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Jay Hennick. Please go ahead, sir.

提醒一下，今天的電話會議錄音時間是 2023 年 8 月 2 日。此時，我想將電話會議轉交給全球董事長兼首席執行官傑伊·亨尼克 (Jay Hennick) 先生進行開場白和介紹。請繼續，先生。

Thank you, operator. Good morning, and thanks to everyone for joining us for this second quarter conference call. I'm Jay Hennick, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the company; with me today is Chris McLernon, Chief Executive Officer of our Real Estate Services business; and Christian Mayer, our Chief Financial Officer.

謝謝你，接線生。早安，感謝大家加入我們第二季的電話會議。我是 Jay Hennick，公司董事長兼執行長；今天和我在一起的是我們房地產服務業務的執行長 Chris McLernon；以及我們的財務長克里斯蒂安·梅耶爾 (Christian Mayer)。

As always, this call is being webcast and is available on the Investor Relations section of our website, along with the presentation slide deck. During the second quarter Colliers experienced strong growth in recurring revenues, which contributed 65% of our adjusted EBITDA. Having such a large percentage of recurring revenue, highlights our balanced and resilient business model enables us to withstand market fluctuations and truly sets us apart from the others.

與往常一樣，本次電話會議正在進行網路直播，並可在我們網站的投資者關係部分以及簡報投影片上查看。第二季度，高力經常性收入強勁成長，佔調整後 EBITDA 的 65%。擁有如此大比例的經常性收入，凸顯了我們平衡且有彈性的業務模式使我們能夠承受市場波動，真正使我們與眾不同。

Once again, investment management and outsourcing and advisory experienced robust growth during the quarter, while capital markets and, to a lesser extent, leasing declined versus the prior year, a record quarter. As everyone knows, lower interest -- lower interest rates have -- at lower investment volumes, sorry, have been caused by rising interest rates, challenging debt availability and continued price discovery, which we expect will quickly rebound once conditions stabilize.

投資管理、外包和諮詢在本季度再次經歷了強勁增長，而資本市場以及較小程度上的租賃與上一年相比出現了創紀錄的季度下滑。眾所周知，較低的利率——較低的利率——以及較低的投資量，抱歉，是由於利率上升、債務供應面臨挑戰以及持續的價格發現造成的，我們預計一旦情況穩定，這種情況將迅速反彈。

Since the rest of our business has been performing well, we're maintaining our financial outlook for the year, as Christian will elaborate on. Our company is basically comprised of two parts: Colliers, one of the top global leaders in commercial real estate. This segment makes up about 70% of our adjusted EBITDA and is led by CEO, Chris McLaren. Chris will provide some highlights in a few minutes.

由於我們的其他業務表現良好，因此我們維持今年的財務前景，正如克里斯蒂安將詳細闡述的那樣。我們公司基本上由兩部分組成：高力集團，全球商業房地產領域的頂尖領導者之一。該部門約占我們調整後 EBITDA 的 70%，由執行長 Chris McLaren 領導。克里斯將在幾分鐘內提供一些要點。

The second segment is Investment Management, which is our fastest-growing business. Since 2016, Colliers has built a highly differentiated private investment platform with an impressive $100 million of assets under management. Importantly, 85% of our AUM is comprised of perpetual or other long-duration investment vehicles giving us predictable revenue streams over the long term.

第二個部門是投資管理，這是我們成長最快的業務。自 2016 年以來，高力建立了一個高度差異化的私人投資平台，管理的資產規模高達 1 億美元。重要的是，我們 85% 的資產管理規模由永久或其他長期投資工具組成，為我們提供了可預測的長期收入流。

As importantly, 70% of these assets are in defensive strategies like seniors and student housing, health care and infrastructure, classes that are highly sought after with strong tailwinds for the future. During the second quarter, IM continued to scale with revenues up 58%, including the benefit of acquisitions. We continued to invest to in our platform. Adding investment professionals and new products as well as strengthening our distribution capabilities. While fundraising remains a challenge for the entire industry, the interest in our investment vehicles has never been greater.

同樣重要的是，其中 70% 的資產屬於防禦性策略，例如老年人和學生住房、醫療保健和基礎設施，以及未來受到強烈追捧的課程。第二季度，IM 繼續擴大規模，營收成長了 58%，其中包括收購帶來的好處。我們繼續投資我們的平台。增加投資專業人士和新產品，並加強我們的分銷能力。雖然融資仍然是整個行業的挑戰，但人們對我們的投資工具的興趣從未如此強烈。

We expect our fundraising will accelerate as we move towards the end of the year. And now let me ask Chris McLaren to discuss some of the highlights from our real estate services business. Once he's completed, Christian will provide his usual financial report, and then we'll open things up to questions. Chris?

我們預計隨著年底的臨近，我們的募款將會加速。現在讓我請克里斯麥克拉倫討論我們房地產服務業務的一些亮點。一旦完成，克里斯蒂安將提供他通常的財務報告，然後我們將開放問題。克里斯？

Thank you, Jay, and good morning. Our vision at Colliers is to accelerate the success of our clients and our people while creating value for our shareholders. Today, Colliers is stronger than ever. It is our unique enterprising culture that sets us apart from our competitors, as we continue to attract and retain the best talent in the industry. While taking share from our competitors. Although transactional services at Capital Markets and leasing declined versus prior year due to the challenging market conditions, our Outsourcing & Advisory services showed strong growth, continuing the momentum from the first quarter.

謝謝你，傑伊，早安。高力的願景是加速顧客和員工的成功，同時為股東創造價值。今天，高力比以往任何時候都更強大。我們獨特的進取文化使我們在競爭對手中脫穎而出，因為我們不斷吸引和留住業內最優秀的人才。同時從競爭對手奪取份額。儘管由於市場條件充滿挑戰，資本市場和租賃的交易服務較上年有所下降，但我們的外包和諮詢服務呈現強勁增長，延續了第一季的勢頭。

Globally, Capital Markets investment volumes have hit the lowest level seen in a decade due to the rapid rise and continued uncertainty around interest rates. Combined with the tightening debt markets, which is affecting price discovery between buyers and sellers. We are confident that our transaction business will rebound strongly once market conditions improve.

在全球範圍內，由於利率的快速上升和持續的不確定性，資本市場投資已降至十年來的最低水準。再加上債務市場緊縮，正在影響買家和賣家之間的價格發現。我們相信，一旦市場狀況好轉，我們的交易業務將會強勁反彈。

In the meantime, to counter the decline in transactional revenue, we have been very proactive optimizing our costs throughout the business. We have done this before and our enterprising culture with leadership at all levels are fully aligned with shareholders, allows us to make hard decisions quickly and in the best interest of our clients, people and shareholders.

同時，為了因應交易收入的下降，我們一直非常積極地優化整個業務的成本。我們以前就這樣做過，我們的進取文化和各級領導層與股東完全一致，使我們能夠快速做出艱難的決策，並符合客戶、員工和股東的最佳利益。

Finally, during the quarter, we continued to make progress toward our Enterprise 2025 plan, growing our Outsourcing & Advisory business internally and strengthening our service offering by completing three strategic investments in the U.S., Australia and New Zealand. Now let me pass things over to Christian.

最後，在本季度，我們繼續在企業 2025 計畫方面取得進展，在內部發展我們的外包和諮詢業務，並透過完成在美國、澳洲和紐西蘭的三項策略投資來加強我們的服務提供。現在讓我把事情交給克里斯蒂安。

Thank you, Chris, and good morning. Now that you've heard from Jay about Investment Management and from Chris on Real Estate Services, I will add some comments on our consolidated results, our balance sheet and our financial outlook for the full year. Please note that all references to revenue growth made on this call are expressed in local currency and that the non-GAAP measures discussed here today are as defined in the materials accompanying this call. For our second quarter, revenues were $1.1 million, down 4% relative to the prior year, which was a record second quarter for our business.

謝謝你，克里斯，早安。既然您已經聽過傑伊關於投資管理的介紹和克里斯關於房地產服務的介紹，我將對我們的綜合業績、資產負債表和全年財務前景添加一些評論。請注意，本次電話會議中提到的所有收入增長均以當地貨幣表示，今天討論的非公認會計原則措施如本次電話會議隨附的材料中所定義。我們第二季的營收為 110 萬美元，比去年同期下降 4%，這是我們第二季業務的創紀錄水準。

Our Capital Markets and Leasing Service lines reported revenue declines of 38% and 7%, respectively, in line with market conditions and our expectations, continuing the challenging trend that started last summer. Our recurring Investment Management and Outsourcing & Advisory service lines each reported strong growth.

我們的資本市場和租賃服務業務收入分別下降了 38% 和 7%，符合市場狀況和我們的預期，延續了去年夏天開始的充滿挑戰的趨勢。我們的經常性投資管理和外包與諮詢服務線均呈現強勁成長。

On an overall basis, internal revenues declined 10% attributable entirely to lower transaction volumes. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA for the second quarter was $147 million relative to $161 million in the prior year with margins at 13.6% versus 14.3% in the prior year quarter. The margin reduction was attributable to the decline in Capital Markets volume, particularly in our EMEA region, where producer compensation is partially fixed.

總體而言，內部收入下降了 10%，這完全是由於交易量下降。第二季合併調整後 EBITDA 為 1.47 億美元，去年同期為 1.61 億美元，利潤率為 13.6%，去年同期為 14.3%。利潤率下降的原因是資本市場交易量下降，特別是在我們的歐洲、中東和非洲地區，該地區生產商補償部分固定。

The overall margin impact was moderated by growth in our higher-margin Investment Management operations as well as aggressive cost control actions across the company. We have achieved cost savings of approximately 28% during the second quarter, and we expect a similar or greater level of savings in each of the third and fourth quarters.

我們利潤率較高的投資管理業務的成長以及整個公司積極的成本控制行動緩解了整體利潤率的影響。我們在第二季度實現了約 28% 的成本節約，並且預計第三和第四季的成本節約量將達到類似或更高水準。

Turning to our balance sheet. Our financial leverage ratio, defined as net debt to pro forma adjusted EBITDA was 2.4x at June 30, reflecting capital deployed on acquisitions during the past 18 months, which are performing in line with our expectations as well as seasonal working capital usage. Absent any significant further acquisitions, we expect our leverage to decline to under 2.0x by year-end. On June 1, we completed the early redemption of our 4% convertible notes, issuing 4.1 million new subordinate voting shares. The early redemption eliminates the interest expense related to those notes and increases the amount of permanent capital on our balance sheet.

轉向我們的資產負債表。截至6 月30 日，我們的財務槓桿率（定義為淨債務與預期調整後EBITDA 比率）為2.4 倍，反映了過去18 個月內用於收購的資本，其表現符合我們的預期以及季節性營運資金使用情形。如果沒有任何進一步的重大收購，我們預計到年底我們的槓桿率將降至 2.0 倍以下。 6月1日，我們完成了4%可轉換票據的提前贖回，發行了410萬股新的附屬投票權股份。提前贖回消除了與這些票據相關的利息支出，並增加了我們資產負債表上的永久資本金額。

At present, 55% of our indebtedness is at attractive low fixed interest rates. Our weighted average interest rate for the second quarter was 4.6%, up 130 basis points over the prior year, far less than the 450 basis point jump in floating reference rates during the same period, demonstrating our active management of borrowing costs. With respect to our financial outlook for the full year 2023, we are maintaining our current outlook. We expect lower Capital Markets and Leasing transaction volumes to persist for the remainder of the year, with the impact partly offset by cost control efforts across our company.

目前，我們 55% 的債務具有有吸引力的低固定利率。第二季加權平均利率為4.6%，較上年上升130個基點，遠低於同期浮動參考利率450個基點的漲幅，反映了我們對借貸成本的積極管理。對於我們 2023 年全年的財務展望，我們維持目前的展望。我們預計今年剩餘時間資本市場和租賃交易量將持續下降，但我們公司的成本控制努力部分抵消了影響。

We also expect continuing strong growth in our recurring service lines, Investment Management and Outsourcing & advisory. Overall, we expect full year adjusted EBITDA to be up between 6% and 14% relative to 2022. We expect the majority of our second half growth to be focused in the fourth quarter due to easier prior year imperatives in our transactional business and expected incremental management fees from fundraising and investment management. Full year adjusted earnings per share is expected to be down slightly to up slightly on higher interest expense as well as the impact of a larger proportion of earnings coming from nonfully owned operations. That concludes my prepared remarks. I would now like to open the call for questions. Operator, can you please open the line?

我們也預期我們的經常性服務、投資管理以及外包和諮詢將持續強勁成長。整體而言，我們預計全年調整後EBITDA 將較2022 年成長6% 至14%。我們預計下半年的大部分成長將集中在第四季度，因為去年我們的交易業務需求較寬鬆，且預期增量募集資金和投資管理的管理費。由於利息支出增加以及非全資業務收益佔比較大的影響，全年調整後每股收益預計將小幅下降至小幅上升。我準備好的發言就到此結束。我現在想開始提問。接線員，您能開通線路嗎？

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from Steve MacLeod with BMO Capital Markets.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 Steve MacLeod。

Great. Thank you. Good morning, everyone. -- a couple of questions -- just a couple of questions. One is around the investment management fundraising environment. You suggested that you expect a very strong back half for fundraising. And I'm just curious if you can give a little bit of color around what's driving that. As you pointed out, Jay, I think in your prepared remarks that fundraising is a challenge in the industry, but you're still expecting a strong accelerated back half.

偉大的。謝謝。大家，早安。 ——幾個問題——幾個問題。一是圍繞投資管理融資環境。您表示您預計籌款活動將有非常強烈的後半程。我只是很好奇你能否對推動這一趨勢的因素給出一些解釋。正如您所指出的，傑伊，我認為在您準備好的講話中，籌款是該行業的一個挑戰，但您仍然期望下半年的強勁加速。

Look, it's still unclear. I think that the reason we're seeing or the entire industry is seeing a slowdown is for the same reasons Capital Markets in some ways is seeing a slowdown. Everybody is trying to figure out how that might impact value of assets within funds and so on and so forth. The beauty of our Investment Management platform and the fact that we create -- we curated it over a long period of time is that we focused on defense strategies, infrastructure and other highly sought-after investment classes.

看看，還是不清楚。我認為我們看到或整個行業出現放緩的原因與資本市場在某些方面放緩的原因相同。每個人都在試圖弄清楚這可能會如何影響基金等資產的價值。我們的投資管理平台的美妙之處以及我們創建的事實——我們在很長一段時間內策劃了它，因為我們專注於國防戰略、基礎設施和其他備受追捧的投資類別。

So redemptions for us have been modest, if at all, whereas there's been redemptions in many, many funds that have more traditional real estate asset classes. But I think investors generally are being more cautious. But our pipelines have never been stronger. So we're having more meetings, there's more conversation with new potential LPs throughout the entire system. So we're all excited about that.

因此，我們的贖回量即使有的話也是有限的，而許多擁有更傳統房地產資產類別的基金卻進行了贖回。但我認為投資人普遍更加謹慎。但我們的管道從未如此強大。因此，我們將召開更多會議，與整個系統中新的​​潛在有限合夥人進行更多對話。所以我們都對此感到興奮。

It's just taking longer for them to make final decisions -- and -- but that's been the case, I would say now for two quarters, maybe a little -- maybe three quarters. So sooner or later, they're going to have to start to make some decisions. And we think that we'll be at the front end of those decisions given our asset classes.

他們只是需要更長的時間才能做出最終決定 - 而且 - 但情況就是這樣，我想說現在已經有兩個季度了，也許有一點 - 也許是四個季度。所以遲早，他們將不得不開始做出一些決定。我們認為，鑑於我們的資產類別，我們將處於這些決策的最前端。

Okay. That's great. That's good color. And then just within Capital Markets and Leasing. Obviously, you've talked about, just the sort of weaker backdrop persisting for the back half of the year, which I think is an expectation that everyone has. Can you talk a little bit about just sort of your activity levels? Are you seeing a lot of kicking of the tires and just the transactions are not getting done? I mean, just as it relates to potentially pent-up demand?

好的。那太棒了。這顏色真好啊然後就在資本市場和租賃領域。顯然，你談到了下半年持續疲軟的背景，我認為這是每個人的期望。能簡單談談您的活動量嗎？您是否看到很多問題而交易卻沒有完成？我的意思是，就像它與潛在的被壓抑的需求有關一樣？

Steve, it's Chris here. We're certainly taking more meetings in Q2 and going into Q3, pitching more and bringing new mandates to market. Certainly at the lesser numbers and volumes, but we're seeing activity that will transact probably towards Q4, the market has stalled. And as I said in my opening remarks that we're at a 10-year level, you've got Germany, for example, down 68% year-over-year, U.S. down 65%.

史蒂夫，我是克里斯。我們肯定會在第二季和第三季召開更多會議，進行更多宣傳並向市場推出新任務。當然，在數量和交易量較少的情況下，但我們看到交易活動可能會在第四季度進行，市場已經陷入停滯。正如我在開場白中所說，我們處於 10 年水平，例如德國同比下降 68%，美國下降 65%。

So -- but we're seeing some good meetings starting to take place and investors wanting to test the market.

所以 - 但我們看到一些好的會議開始舉行，投資者想要測試市場。

Your next question comes from Stephen Sheldon with William Blair.

您的下一個問題來自史蒂芬謝爾頓和威廉布萊爾。

Great quarter overall in a tough environment. Did want to ask about the slowdown in Outsourcing & Advisory in the Americas. I think it's been growing kind of high single digits the past two quarters, down to 3% year-over-year this quarter. Anything specific driving that such as tough comps or one-off items? And then how are you thinking about the growth outlook there over the next few quarters and to early 2024?

在艱難的環境下，整體季度表現出色。確實想詢問美洲外包和諮詢業務放緩的情況。我認為過去兩個季度一直呈現高個位數成長，本季年減至 3%。有什麼具體的驅動因素，例如艱難的比賽或一次性項目嗎？那麼您如何看待未來幾季和 2024 年初的成長前景？

Just give me a sec here, Stephen, we're going to pull out the...

請給我一點時間，史蒂芬，我們要拿出...

We don't know if you're factor -- we're .

我們不知道你是否是因素——我們是。

We are surprised by your question.

我們對你的問題感到驚訝。

Maybe I'll ask another one.

也許我會問另一位。

O&A is actually up in the Americas, Stephen, by about $10 million on a quarter-over-quarter basis. So that's your...

史蒂芬，O&A 在美洲實際上比上一季增長了約 1000 萬美元。所以這就是你的...

I was asked year-over-year slowdown because it had been growing, I think, in my numbers at least 9% 4Q, 7%, 1Q down to 3% this quarter year-over-year. So I don't know if maybe valuation has slowed down given that there's some transactional people there.

我被問到年增率放緩，因為我認為，在我的數據中，第四季同比增長至少為 9%、7%、第一季下降到本季同比增長 3%。因此，鑑於存在一些交易人員，我不知道估值是否已經放緩。

Right. I think I understand the question now. Part of Outsourcing & Advisory business has -- is a valuation practice. And that valuation practice is a recurring service offering in that it provides ongoing property valuation on an annual basis to large financial institution clients. Who contract us to do that work. There is some additional work that gets done on the front end, as transactions occur and as new loans are originated, -- that part of the valuation business has declined clearly.

正確的。我想我現在明白這個問題了。外包和諮詢業務的一部分是評估實踐。這種估值實踐是一項經常性的服務，因為它每年向大型金融機構客戶提供持續的房地產估值。誰與我們簽訂了這項工作的合約。隨著交易的發生和新貸款的發放，前端需要完成一些額外的工作——這部分估值業務已明顯下降。

And maybe that's what you're seeing there, but that could probably be the -- that's probably the single biggest driver of a reduction in volume there.

也許這就是你所看到的，但這可能是導致成交量減少的最大驅動因素。

Okay. Got it. That's what I figured. And then just 2025 is quickly approaching. You guys have your targets out there. Just curious, it seems like you've done multiple of these kind of 5-year targets. When are you thinking about providing your outlook for 2030? And there's a lot going on in the near term, but just curious where -- when we would maybe start expecting to see some of those longer-term targets again?

好的。知道了。我就是這麼想的。 2025 年即將到來。你們都有自己的目標。只是好奇，您似乎已經完成了多個此類 5 年目標。您什麼時候考慮提供您​​對 2030 年的展望？短期內會發生很多事情，但只是好奇我們何時會開始期望再次看到其中一些長期目標？

It's funny you mentioned 2030. We're doing lots of work on 2030 right now, which is way ahead of where we would have been several years ago. We generally would start our 5-year plan -- 3.5 years maybe 4 years into our current plan. We actually started it early this time. But I don't think we would make it public much before we are finished the current 5-year plan. But there's been a lot of thinking around the 2030 plan, what do we look like in 2030 -- it's quite exciting from our perspective, we see some very, very interesting ways for us to continue our current growth trajectory.

有趣的是，你提到了 2030 年。我們現在正在為 2030 年做很多工作，這遠遠領先於我們幾年前的水平。我們通常會在目前計劃的 3.5 年或 4 年後開始我們的 5 年計劃。這次我們其實很早就開始了。但我認為在完成目前的五年計劃之前我們不會公開太多。但圍繞著2030 年計劃，我們有很多思考，2030 年我們會是什麼樣子——從我們的角度來看，這是相當令人興奮的，我們看到了一些非常非常有趣的方式來繼續我們當前的增長軌跡。

But right now, it's quite remote. And my commentary is just around the fact that we think that we can continue to grow at the same kind of clip we have historically for much further than the current 5-year plan.

但現在看來，還很遙遠。我的評論圍繞著這樣一個事實，即我們認為我們可以繼續以歷史上相同的速度成長，比目前的五年計畫要長得多。

Got it. And maybe just one more. Chris, I think you kind of talked about seeing some good activity on the Capital Markets side, although deal volume is still down quite a bit year-over-year. It doesn't seem like it picked up yet. Some of your peers have reported green shoots in areas like or subsectors like multifamily, industrial, some sectors like that. Just curious what you're seeing out there if we looked by almost by subsector or different asset classes within commercial real estate. Is there more activity happening in certain subsectors than others?

知道了。也許還有一個。克里斯，我認為您談到了資本市場的一些良好活動，儘管交易量仍同比下降了不少。好像還沒接起來。您的一些同行報告稱，多戶住宅、工業等領域或子行業出現了萌芽。只是好奇如果我們按商業房地產中的子行業或不同資產類別進行查看，您會看到什麼。某些子行業的活動是否比其他行業更多？

Yes, absolutely. The #1 asset class that investors are looking at is that industrial logistics, it's been a 5-year boom in the marketplace. -- vacancy is quite low. So we're seeing rental appreciation. And so that continues to be a hot sector. Same with multifamily, with many cities around the world, you've got an over demand situation. Where rental tenants are looking for properties, and so we're seeing rental increases in multifamily. So I think that's a good sector.

是的，一點沒錯。投資者關注的第一大資產類別是工業物流，它的市場已經經歷了五年的繁榮。 ——空缺率相當低。所以我們看到租金升值。因此，這仍然是一個熱門領域。與多戶住宅一樣，在世界各地的許多城市，都存在著需求過剩的情況。出租租戶正在尋找房產，因此我們看到多戶住宅的租金上漲。所以我認為這是一個很好的行業。

There's the whole flight to quality in terms of office leasing. So the very best buildings, the trophy assets with the best amenities, best locations, best tenants. They're still going to be an attractive investment -- and then I would say the alternatives, student housing, data centers, et cetera. But the problem is that it's such a small pool of assets, but it's very much in demand. So those are the sectors that we're seeing that have interest with investors today.

就辦公室租賃而言，整個過程都在追求品質。因此，最好的建築、擁有最佳設施、最佳位置、最好租戶的獎盃資產。它們仍然是一項有吸引力的投資——然後我會說替代方案，學生宿舍、資料中心等等。但問題是，它的資產規模很小，但需求很大。這些就是我們今天看到的投資者感興趣的行業。

I would also add another thing to what Chris said, and that's geographic -- our geographic diversification. If you take a look at our APAC numbers, they were surprisingly better than the rest of the world, which is interesting because things may be turning there a little bit, whereas in the U.S. Capital Markets and Leasing were down, whereas in APAC, they weren't down nearly as much. And so we don't know whether those are early signs yet. But that's -- to us, that's a green shoot.

我還要在克里斯所說的基礎上補充另一件事，那就是地理上的——我們的地理多元化。如果你看一下我們亞太地區的數據，你會發現它們比世界其他地區要好得多，這很有趣，因為那裡的情況可能會有所轉變，而在美國資本市場和租賃業則有所下降，而在亞太地區，它們並沒有下降那麼多。所以我們還不知道這些是否是早期跡象。但對我們來說，這只是一個萌芽。

Absolutely, Jay, just to follow up on that. In Asia Pacific, we've got a first-class regional and local management teams. And we're seeing real good progress in our Japanese capital markets business going from strength to strength. We've also improved our operations in Korea and Singapore. So we saw a couple of large transactions this quarter in those two markets.

當然，傑伊，只是為了跟進此事。在亞太地區，我們擁有一流的區域和本地管理團隊。我們看到我們的日本資本市場業務取得了真正的良好進展，並且不斷壯大。我們也改善了在韓國和新加坡的業務。因此，本季我們在這兩個市場上看到了幾筆大型交易。

And then a pillar of strength is still our Australian business, and we're seeing some, again, industrial and logistics sales and then the return to residential project marketing with the heavy immigration coming into Australia. So definitely some green shoots there.

然後，我們的實力支柱仍然是我們的澳大利亞業務，我們再次看到一些工業和物流銷售，然後隨著大量移民進入澳大利亞，住宅項目營銷回歸。所以肯定有一些萌芽。

(Operator Instructions) Your next question comes from Frederic Bastien with Raymond James.

（操作員說明）您的下一個問題來自 Frederic Bastien 和 Raymond James。

It's nice to have Chris join us for the call and presumably for [Q1]. Also, thanks for your comments on the APAC region because that was one of the questions I had. I guess my biggest concern coming into the print were margins and they held up quite nicely, especially in the Americas. So it certainly showed you've been quite proactive with your cost structure.

很高興克里斯能加入我們的電話會議並可能參加[Q1]。另外，感謝您對亞太地區的評論，因為這是我的問題之一。我想我最關心的是印刷版的頁邊距，它們保持得很好，尤其是在美洲。因此，這無疑表明您在成本結構方面非常積極主動。

Question is around the outlook you provided for the back half. I think you mentioned in your prepared remarks, you expected more savings to be achieved. I wondering if you could provide additional color there.

問題是關於你對後半部分的展望。我想您在準備好的發言中提到，您期望實現更多節省。我想知道你是否可以在那裡提供額外的顏色。

Yes. Frederic, we've been active on managing our costs, and we've been positioning ourselves to deal with this decline in Capital Markets activity that started really 9 months ago. So we have been proactive in reducing head count and producer support and administration roles, managing that head count as best as we can despite the fact that there is activity, as Chris says, there's people looking at transactions.

是的。 Frederic，我們一直在積極管理成本，並且我們一直在做好準備，以應對 9 個月前開始的資本市場活動下降的情況。因此，我們一直在積極減少員工數量、生產者支援和管理角色，盡我們所能管理員工數量，儘管事實上正如克里斯所說，有人在關注交易。

So being prudent there on our head count, managing the discretionary costs in the business, travel, conferences, that sort of thing. So we've made some very good progress there. As I mentioned in my prepared remarks, $28 million in the second quarter, and we're looking for the same or better in the third and fourth quarters. and that will positively impact our margin for the full year.

因此，在人員編制上要謹慎，管理商務、旅行、會議等方面的可自由支配成本。所以我們在那裡取得了一些非常好的進展。正如我在準備好的發言中提到的，第二季為 2800 萬美元，我們希望第三季和第四季達到相同或更好的水平。這將對我們全年的利潤率產生積極影響。

How would that differ from the cost savings that you achieved during COVID? Or how different of an approach did you -- did you...

這與您在新冠疫情期間節省的成本有何不同？或者你採取了多麼不同的方法—你...

It's the same playbook, Frederic, but a different situation slightly. During the pandemic, it was actually much more black and white. Our people were at home, transactions simply weren't being talked about and weren't being explored. So we made more dramatic cuts to those areas.

弗雷德里克，這是同樣的劇本，但情況略有不同。在大流行期間，實際上更加黑白分明。我們的員工都待在家裡，根本沒有討論或探索交易。因此我們對這些領域進行了更大幅度的削減。

I think from an overall perspective, the pandemic era cuts were significantly more in dollars, but they were focused on the same areas of our transactional business.

我認為從整體角度來看，大流行時代的美元削減明顯更多，但它們集中在我們交易業務的相同領域。

Just to add some additional color. Remember, we've got this decentralized partnership model. And so we've got leadership locally aligned to performance and they're being proactive. It's a basket of businesses. And so we've got some countries performing well, some service lines performing well. So it's not looking at cost containment across the board. It's being selective and looking at those service lines and countries that are challenged and letting the ones that are going well, continue to run well.

只是為了添加一些額外的顏色。請記住，我們有這種去中心化的合作夥伴模式。因此，我們的本地領導層與績效保持一致，而且他們非常積極主動。這是一籃子業務。因此，我們的一些國家表現良好，一些服務線路表現良好。因此，它並沒有考慮全面的成本控制。它是有選擇性的，專注於那些面臨挑戰的服務線路和國家，讓那些進展順利的服務線路和國家繼續運作良好。

And let's not forget the highly variable nature of our professionals globally around the world that compensation adjusts based on their production. So we feel, as you're hearing from Chris and from Christian, that this is a road we've been down several times before. The structure of our business is quite unique in this respect.

我們不要忘記全球各地專業人員的高度可變性，薪酬根據他們的產量進行調整。所以，正如你們從克里斯和克里斯蒂安那裡聽到的那樣，我們覺得這是一條我們之前已經走過好幾次的路。我們的業務結構在這方面非常獨特。

And I think leadership has consistently had the fortitude to act when times like these occur, and we're doing that and the results are showing up. So we're pleased with that.

我認為，當這種情況發生時，領導層始終有毅力採取行動，我們正在這樣做，結果正在顯現。所以我們對此感到滿意。

Your next question comes from Jimmy Shan with RBC Capital Markets.

您的下一個問題來自加拿大皇家銀行資本市場的 Jimmy Shan。

Just wanted to follow up on the Leasing business. capital Markets revenue versus your peers were down about the same level, but Leasing seems to have done a little bit better. I wondered if whether that's different asset mix geographies and kind of what would account for seemingly a better year-over-year performance?

只是想跟進租賃業務。資本市場收入與同業相比下降了大致相同的水平，但租賃似乎做得更好一些。我想知道這是否是不同的資產組合地域以及是什麼導致了看似更好的同比表現？

And then maybe how do we think about the trajectory of that business over the next few years? I know weak office, industrial strong, but maybe if you could provide some color as to how to think about the growth beyond this year.

那我們如何看待未來幾年該業務的發展軌跡？我知道辦公大樓疲軟，工業強勁，但也許您可以提供一些關於如何思考今年以後的成長的資訊。

Yes. This is Chris here. It is a geographic topic. So Asia Pacific leasing was up 24% year-over-year on the quarter. And this was attributed to a couple of things. One, again, I mentioned the improved performance in some of our Asia Pacific operations, Korea, Singapore, Japan, -- and then we've also got a growing business in India.

是的。這是克里斯。這是一個地理主題。因此，本季亞太地區的租賃年增 24%。這歸因於幾件事。一，我再次提到我們在亞太地區的一些業務（韓國、新加坡、日本）的業績有所改善，而且我們在印度的業務也不斷成長。

But predominantly, it would be Australia. Again, we are the leader in the A-class landlord leasing business. And there's a whole trend of the flight to quality for office users to go to the best buildings. And so we're capturing a lot of that market in Australia, which is helping the overall leasing markets for the company.

但主要是澳洲。再次，我們是A級房東租賃業務的領導者。辦公室使用者趨向於選擇最好的建築，這是一種整體趨勢。因此，我們正在佔領澳洲的大部分市場，這有助於公司的整體租賃市場。

Okay. And in terms of your guidance for the year, I guess two questions. One is what would that assume in terms of AUM growth in the back half? And then sort of is your confidence in the guide really sort of predicated on your -- the cost-cutting efforts that you've done so far? Is that really what's kind of the main driver to you being able to sustain the guidance?

好的。就您今年的指導而言，我想有兩個問題。一是下半年資產管理規模成長會怎樣？那麼，您對本指南的信心是否真的取決於您迄今為止所做的成本削減努力？這真的是您能夠維持指導的主要動力嗎？

Yes. I mean, to answer your question, Jimmy, our AUM at June 30 was $99 billion. We certainly expect to be well north of $100 billion. -- sort of no exact to know where that's going to be, but definitely a few billion north of $100 million by the end of the year, and that will come from fundraising that we expect will occur before the end of the year.

是的。我的意思是，吉米，為了回答你的問題，我們截至 6 月 30 日的資產管理規模為 990 億美元。我們當然預計將遠遠超過 1000 億美元。 - 有點不知道具體會在哪裡，但到今年年底肯定會超過 1 億美元，而這將來自我們預計將在年底前進行的籌款。

As Jay mentioned, we've had very modest redemption activity. So that's not really a factor valuation and our AUM is also a modest negative, but not something that we're concerned about. So it's really all about fundraising for us in terms of our AUM trajectory.

正如傑伊所提到的，我們的兌換活動非常有限。因此，這並不是真正的因子估值，我們的資產管理規模也有適度的負值，但不是我們所擔心的。因此，就我們的資產管理規模軌跡而言，這實際上就是我們的募款活動。

And just as a reminder, our fee-paying AUM is the number that generates the revenue. Our AUM is a gross measure that includes leverage. So if we raise -- just for discussion purposes, $1 billion, our AUM will actually go up potentially by $2 million given the leverage that's not in the portfolio. So just be cognizant of that.

提醒一下，我們的付費資產管理規模是產生收入的數字。我們的資產管理規模是一項包括槓桿在內的整體衡量標準。因此，如果我們籌集——僅出於討論目的——10 億美元，考慮到投資組合中不存在的槓桿，我們的 AUM 實際上可能會增加 200 萬美元。所以只要認識這一點就可以了。

In terms of your other questions, cost control certainly will be a continuing focus for the balance of the year, as I mentioned a couple of times on the call already, and that's part of what is in our outlook. We've also had a couple of tuck-in acquisitions -- actually, three tuck-in acquisitions this year to date. So those will continue to annualize into the results. over the next 2 quarters. So -- and of course, our outsourcing business will also continue to grow over the next 2 quarters, and that will drive some additional EBITDA to help us achieve our outlook.

就您的其他問題而言，成本控制肯定將成為今年餘下時間的持續關注焦點，正如我在電話會議中多次提到的那樣，這也是我們展望的一部分。我們還進行了幾項隱藏式收購——實際上，今年迄今為止已經進行了三項隱藏式收購。因此，這些將繼續按年計入結果。在接下來的2個季度。因此，當然，我們的外包業務也將在未來兩個季度繼續成長，這將推動一些額外的 EBITDA 幫助我們實現我們的前景。

Your next question comes from Maxim Sytchev with National Bank Financial.

您的下一個問題來自 National Bank Financial 的 Maxim Sytchev。

I just wanted to start a little bit with EMEA, if it's possible. Do you mind providing a bit more color in terms of the operating earnings loss in the quarter. Is it again, more of a function of the compensation structure than anything else? Or is there sort of any additional data points you can provide on that geography?

如果可能的話，我只是想先從歐洲、中東和非洲地區開始。您介意就本季的營業收入損失提供更多資訊嗎？這是否又更多是薪酬結構的一個功能而不是其他因素？或者您可以提供有關該地理位置的任何其他數據點嗎？

Yes, Max. It really is that. It's the compensation structure, which has a partially fixed component in Capital Markets. And as you can see in the materials of the Capital Markets, revenues in EMEA are down quite significantly in the quarter. So that's the driver of it.

是的，馬克斯。確實是這樣。這是薪酬結構，在資本市場中有部分固定的組成部分。正如您在資本市場的資料中看到的那樣，歐洲、中東和非洲地區的收入在本季大幅下降。這就是它的驅動力。

The revenues are offset by growth in Outsourcing & Advisory, but those margins at Outsourcing & Advisory are sort of low double-digit area, whereas the capital markets business in EMEA is a significantly higher margin operation. And as the revenues come down, that market margin deleveraging is more significant and impacts the amount of EBITDA generated as well as the operating earnings that are generated.

收入被外包和諮詢業務的成長所抵消，但外包和諮詢業務的利潤率處於較低的兩位數區域，而歐洲、中東和非洲地區的資本市場業務的利潤率要高得多。隨著收入下降，市場利潤去槓桿化更加顯著，並影響產生的 EBITDA 金額以及產生的營業利潤。

And then, Jay, maybe a bit more sort of a broader question. I mean if you listen to some of sort of the bearish commentary around kind of commercial real estate in general, is that actually potentially the big issue dropping is kind of '25, '26 in sort of time frame.

然後，傑伊，也許是一個更廣泛的問題。我的意思是，如果你聽到一些關於商業房地產的悲觀評論，你會發現實際上潛在的大問題是在「25」、「26」的時間範圍內下降。

I'm just wondering what are your thoughts on maybe counterpoints to that view of the world in terms of the potential stabilization when it comes to -- the value of the properties and how the outage sort of gets made on that sort of time frame?

我只是想知道，當談到潛在的穩定性時，您對世界觀的看法可能是相反的——這些資產的價值以及在這樣的時間範圍內如何進行停電？

So I think it's -- I divide the question into two. First of all, there's various asset classes in real estate. We all know what they are. Office is obviously something that's under some pressure. But as Chris mentioned on multifamily and our defense assets -- defensive assets, infrastructure, these are all doing extremely nicely.

所以我認為——我把這個問題分成兩個。首先，房地產有多種資產類別。我們都知道它們是什麼。辦公室顯然是承受著一定壓力的東西。但正如克里斯提到的多戶家庭和我們的國防資產——防禦資產、基礎設施，這些都表現得非常好。

Operator, do you mind clearing your throat at a different time. These are all assets that are doing extremely well. And the only difficulty then is availability of capital, but there -- I see I see a normalization happening, but we still need to see some stabilization in interest rates. We need to see a change in mentality among sellers of assets and buyers of assets who are prepared to step up for some of the more quality assets that are available.

接線生，您介意換個時間清一下喉嚨嗎？這些都是表現非常好的資產。唯一的困難是資本的可用性，但我看到正常化正在發生，但我們仍然需要看到利率穩定。我們需要看到資產賣家和資產買家的心態發生變化，他們準備好購買一些更優質的資產。

So I'm reading all the same things that you're reading, I'm hearing '25, I'm hearing '26. I can't believe it would be delayed to that length of time. I think you're going to start to see activity in '24, maybe even early '24. There's funds out there that need to acquire. There's funds out there that -- that need to dispose.

所以我讀的東西和你讀的東西一樣，我聽到的是“25”，我聽到的是“26”。我不敢相信它會被推遲到那麼長的時間。我認為您將在 24 年甚至 24 年初開始看到活動。那裡有資金需要收購。有一些資金需要處置。

You're seeing Blackstone sell massive pieces of their large REIT to redeploy their capital. So I think it's all over the place, frankly. And I think it's going to be at the more sought-after real estate assets, you're going to see movement sooner than you think. Of course, we would like to see it starting tomorrow. But the reality is it's going to be sooner than we think, because these assets are going to have to turn over. It's much more a mature asset real estate is today than ever before. So we're sort of thinking '24. We're going to be maybe not at record levels, but there's going to be nice activity happening in '24.

您會看到黑石出售其大型房地產投資信託基金的大量股份以重新部署其資本。所以坦白說，我認為這一切都是如此。我認為這將出現在更受歡迎的房地產資產上，你會比你想像的更早看到變化。當然，我們希望看到它明天開始。但現實情況是，這會比我們想像的還要早，因為這些資產將不得不週轉。如今，房地產比以往任何時候都更加成熟。所以我們在想「24」。我們可能不會達到創紀錄的水平，但 24 年將會發生一些不錯的活動。

Super helpful, Jay. And then maybe just one last question. Obviously, you continue to build your platform in engineering consulting. And now that you have quite a bit of size in the business. I'm wondering if you can maybe comment on give us examples around some cross-selling successes that maybe you would have had across sort of the entirety of Colliers. Yes, that's my last question.

超級有幫助，傑伊。也許只是最後一個問題。顯然，您將繼續建立工程諮詢領域的平台。現在你的業務已經相當規模了。我想知道您是否可以評論一下，給我們一些交叉銷售成功的例子，也許您在整個高力公司都會取得這些成功。是的，這是我的最後一個問題。

There's just so many. But the obvious one is -- the obvious ones are in engineering, there is a ton of prework that has to go into taking a piece of land from raw land to the point where it can be developed or sold -- and so our engineering segment is very busy with homebuilders everywhere. -- builders of big distribution facilities and so on in order to get the actual land, sewage, drainage, transportation all set up so that properties can be sold and developed and so on and so forth.

就這麼多了。但顯而易見的是——明顯的是工程領域，從原始土地上拿走一塊土地到可以開發或出售的地步，必須進行大量的前期工作——所以我們的工程部門到處都是房屋建築商，非常忙碌。 ——大型配送設施等的建設者，以獲得實際的土地、污水、排水、交通設施，以便房產可以出售和開發等等。

So there's a natural connection, the same clients that may own a piece of land or may want to acquire a piece of land need to have some assistance from an engineering firm to entitle that land to do what they want to do. And that's just one example. For us, our engineering and design business includes also project management, which together, those businesses are now approaching almost $1 billion in revenue and the project management piece of our business generates huge business from the engineering and from our commercial real estate business as people are looking to build, renovate and alter the structure of their real estate assets, including in the office environment, where we're very busy right now trying to decide what the right component of an office is for a downtown office user with work from home and a variety of other factors that we all know about. So -- that's my answer. I'm happy to go into more detail if you want.

因此，存在著一種自然的聯繫，可能擁有一塊土地或可能想要購買一塊土地的客戶需要從工程公司獲得一些幫助，以使該土地有權做他們想做的事情。這只是一個例子。對我們來說，我們的工程和設計業務還包括專案管理，這些業務目前的收入加在一起已接近10 億美元，而且我們業務的專案管理部分從工程和商業房地產業務中產生了巨大的業務，因為人們希望建造、翻新和改變其房地產資產的結構，包括在辦公環境中，我們現在非常忙碌，試圖確定適合在家工作的市中心辦公室用戶和辦公室的正確組成部分。我們都知道的各種其他因素。所以——這就是我的答案。如果您願意，我很樂意提供更多詳細資訊。

Your next question comes from Frederic Bastien with Raymond James.

您的下一個問題來自弗雷德里克·巴斯蒂安和雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Hi, guys. Great. Just a quick question on, just noticed the Investment Management margins were down sequentially from 45% to roughly 45% to 42%. And I think you're guiding for somewhere close to 50%, as we close out the year. Can you just speak to the pressure you see on the margin, what was behind that? And how we get back to the trend you've been forecasting on a go-forward basis?

嗨，大家好。偉大的。只是一個簡單的問題，剛剛注意到投資管理利潤率連續從 45% 下降到大約 45% 到 42%。我認為，當我們結束這一年時，您的指導價接近 50%。您能否談談您在邊緣看到的壓力，背後的原因是什麼？我們如何回到您預測的未來趨勢？

Yes, Frederic, 50% margins is our target down the line 3 to 5 years from now as we continue to scale the business. We expect to achieve something in the order of 45% thereabouts this year in terms of a full year margin profile. In the quarter, we -- as Jay mentioned in his remarks, we invested in distribution capabilities and other growth initiatives, new staffing to support new fund launches. so those growth investments do have an upfront cost attached to them. And those are going to bear fruit here over time, and we're convinced of that and confident in that, and that's why we're making those ongoing investments in our platform.

是的，Frederic，隨著我們繼續擴大業務規模，50% 的利潤率是我們 3 到 5 年後的目標。我們預計今年全年利潤率將達到 45% 左右。在本季度，正如傑伊在演講中提到的，我們投資於分銷能力和其他成長計劃，以及支持新基金推出的新員工。因此，這些成長投資確實會產生前期成本。隨著時間的推移，這些將在這裡結出碩果，我們對此深信不疑並充滿信心，這就是我們在我們的平台上進行持續投資的原因。

No, that's great color. No, I know you've made significant investments over time and they've certainly paid off.

不，那是很棒的顏色。不，我知道隨著時間的推移，您已經進行了大量投資，並且肯定得到了回報。

All right. Thanks.

好的。謝謝。

There are no further questions at this time. Please proceed.

目前沒有其他問題。請繼續。

Well, thanks, everyone, for joining us on this second quarter conference call, and we look forward to speaking to you again during the third quarter. Thanks for participating.

好的，謝謝大家參加我們第二季的電話會議，我們期待在第三季再次與您交談。感謝您的參與。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the conference call for today. Thank you for participating, and have a nice day.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，祝您有美好的一天。