Crescent Capital BDC Inc (CCAP) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Janine, and I will be your lead operator for today's call. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Q4 Crescent Capital BDC Inc earnings conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. And after today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions.

感謝您的支持。我叫 Janine，我將擔任今天電話會議的首席接線生。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Crescent Capital BDC Inc 第四季財報電話會議。所有線路均已靜音以防止任何背景噪音。今天的演講結束後，將有機會提問。

(Operator Instructions) I will now turn a call over to Dan, Head of the relations, please go ahead.

(操作員指示)現在我將電話轉給關係主管丹，請繼續。

Good morning and welcome to Crescent Capital BDC Inc. fourth quarter and year-ended December 31, 2024 earnings conference call. Please note that Crescent Capital BDC Inc. May be referred to as CCAP, Crescent BDC, for the company throughout the call.

早安，歡迎參加 Crescent Capital BDC Inc. 第四季和截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的年度財報電話會議。請注意，Crescent Capital BDC Inc. 在整個通話過程中可能會被稱為 CCAP、Crescent BDC。

Before we begin, I'll start with some important reminders. Comments made over the course of this conference call and webcast may contain forward-looking statements and are subject to risks and uncertainties.

在我們開始之前，我先說一些重要的提醒。本次電話會議和網路廣播過程中發表的評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，並受風險和不確定性的影響。

The company's actual results could differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements for any reason, including those listed in its SEC filings. The company assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements. Please also note that past performance or market information is not a guarantee of future results.

本公司的實際結果可能因任何原因（包括本公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中列出的原因）與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。該公司不承擔更新任何此類前瞻性陳述的義務。另請注意，過去的表現或市場資訊並不能保證未來的結果。

Yesterday after the market closed, the company issued its earnings press release for the fourth quarter and year ended December 31, 2024 and posted a presentation to the IR section of its website at www.crescentbc.com.

在昨天市場收盤後，該公司發布了截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的第四季度和年度收益新聞稿，並在其網站 www.crescentbc.com 的 IR 部分發布了一份簡報。

Presentation should be reviewed in conjunction with the company's Form 10K filed yesterday with the SEC. As a reminder, this call is being recorded for replay purposes. Speaking on today's call will be CCAP's Chief Executive Officer, Jason Breaux; President, Henry Chung; and Chief Financial Officer, Gerhard Lombard.

應結合該公司昨天向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10K 表格來審查本簡報。提醒一下，本次通話正在錄音，以便重播。今天的電話會議演講者將是 CCAP 的執行長 Jason Breaux；總裁 Henry Chung；和財務長Gerhard Lombard。

With that, I'd now like to turn it over to Jason.

說完這些，我現在想把發言權交給傑森。

Thank you, Dan. Hello everyone, and thank you all for joining us. I'll start today's call by highlighting our fourth quarter results, follow that with some thoughts on our investment approach and touch on our portfolio.

謝謝你，丹。大家好，感謝大家加入我們。我將在今天的電話會議上首先介紹我們第四季度的業績，然後談談我們的投資方法的一些想法，並談談我們的投資組合。

In terms of fourth quarter earnings, we reported NII of $0.55 per share, which translates into an annualized NII return on equity of 11%. The $0.55 compares to $0.64 in the prior quarter and $0.61 in the fourth quarter of 2023.

就第四季收益而言，我們報告的 NII 為每股 0.55 美元，相當於年化 NII 股本回報率為 11%。0.55 美元與上一季的 0.64 美元和 2023 年第四季的 0.61 美元相比。

This quarter's NII decline was driven by the impact of a lower investment portfolio yield as base rates at the end of 2024 were roughly 100 basis points lower than where they were at the end of 2023. Additionally, lower levels of non-recurring income in the fourth quarter impacted this quarter's results, as Gerhard will touch on.

本季的 NII 下降是由於投資組合收益率下降的影響，因為 2024 年底的基準利率比 2023 年底的水平低了約 100 個基點。此外，第四季非經常性收入水準較低也影響了本季的業績，正如 Gerhard 將會談到的那樣。

We've prioritized base dividend coverage since CCAP's inception, and we note that our NII is well in excess of our base dividend at 131% coverage in the fourth quarter. Our net asset value decreased $0.22 to 1,998 per share in the quarter, driven primarily by changes in unrealized marks.

自 CCAP 成立以來，我們一直優先考慮基本股息覆蓋率，我們注意到我們的 NII 遠遠超過基本股息，第四季度的覆蓋率為 131%。本季度，我們的淨資產價值下降 0.22 美元至每股 1,998 美元，主要原因是未實現利潤的變化。

On a year over year basis, our NA per share was down 0.3%. Let's shift gears and discuss the investment portfolio. Please turn to slides 13 and 14 of the presentation, which highlights certain characteristics of our portfolio.

與去年同期相比，我們的每股淨利潤下降了 0.3%。讓我們換個話題，討論一下投資組合。請翻到簡報的第 13 和 14 張投影片，其中重點介紹了我們投資組合的某些特點。

We ended the year with approximately $1.6 billion of investments at fair value across a highly diversified portfolio of 185 companies with an average investment size of approximately 0.5% of the total portfolio. Our TOP10 largest borrowers represented 15% of the portfolio, as we are believers in modulating credit risk through position size, which we believe has served Crescent well in previous credit cycles.

截至年底，我們高度多元化的投資組合中有 185 家公司，以公允價值計算的投資額約為 16 億美元，平均投資規模約佔總投資組合的 0.5%。我們最大的 10 個借款人佔投資組合的 15%，因為我們相信透過部位規模來調節信用風險，我們相信這在先前的信貸週期中為 Crescent 提供了良好的服務。

We've deliberately maintained an investment portfolio that consists primarily of first lane loans, collectively representing 90% of the portfolio at fair value at year end, unchanged from the prior quarter. We continue to focus our investing efforts on noncyclical industries and remain well diversified across 20 broad industry categorizations.

我們有意維持主要由第一車道貸款組成的投資組合，以年末的公允價值計算，這些貸款佔投資組合的 90%，與上一季相比沒有變動。我們繼續將投資重點放在非週期性行業，並在 20 大行業類別中保持良好的多元化。

Our investments are almost entirely supported by well-capitalized private equity sponsors, with 99% of our debt portfolio and sponsor backed companies as of year-end. Please turn to slide 17, which shows the trends in internal performance ratings. Overall, we have been pleased with the fundamental performance of our portfolio.

我們的投資幾乎全部由資金雄厚的私募股權發起人支持，截至年底，我們的 99% 債務投資組合和發起人支持的公司。請翻到投影片 17，其中顯示了內部績效評級的趨勢。總體而言，我們對我們的投資組合的基本表現感到滿意。

Our weighted average portfolio grade of 2.1 remains stable quarter over quarter. On the right-hand side of the slide you'll see that 1 and 2 rated investments representing names that are performing at or above our underwriting expectations continue to represent the lion's share or 87% of our portfolio at fair value.

我們的加權平均投資組合等級為 2.1，與上一季相比保持穩定。在投影片的右側，您會看到，評級為 1 和 2 的投資代表著表現達到或超過我們的承保預期的名稱，以公允價值計算，它們繼續佔據我們投資組合的最大份額，即 87%。

The yellow segment of the chart, which represents our four and five rated investments, remains representing names that are performing at or above our underwriting expectations, continue to represent the lion's share, or 87% of our portfolio at fair value

圖表中的黃色部分代表我們評級為四和五的投資，仍然代表表現達到或超過我們承保預期的公司，繼續佔據最大份額，即按公允價值計算占我們投資組合的 87%。

Where we did see an increase quarter over quarter was our three rated investments. I would stress that our philosophy is to be proactive with our portfolio companies. We don't want to be slow in anticipating challenges or potential obstacles that warrant heightened focus.

我們確實看到，我們的三項評級投資較上季有所成長。我想強調的是，我們的理念是積極主動地對待我們的投資組合公司。我們不想在預測需要高度關注的挑戰或潛在障礙方面進展緩慢。

We do not, for example, wait until there is a covenant breach before moving an investment that may be experiencing headwinds down the risk rating scale. In Q4, we added seven names to the watch list collectively marked at 97% of their combined cost bases.

例如，我們不會等到出現違約情況才將可能遭遇阻力的投資從風險評級中下調。在第四季度，我們將七個公司加入觀察名單中，這些公司的綜合成本基礎為 97%。

We believe that our tenure in the direct lending space, robust investment process, and focus on the core and lower middle market will continue to drive strong credit performance for CCAP. We continue to lead the majority of our transactions, drive stringent documentation, and maintain our underwriting focus on strong cash flow generating companies.

我們相信，我們在直接貸款領域的長期經驗、強勁的投資流程以及對核心和中低端市場的關注將繼續推動 CCAP 強勁的信貸表現。我們繼續主導大多數交易，推動嚴格的文件編制，並保持對強勁現金流產生公司的承保重點。

All of this has led to a portfolio today that has non-accruals below the industry average. As a year end, non-accruals represented 0.9% of total debt investments at fair value and 2.2% of cost, respectively.

所有這些都導致​​瞭如今投資組合的未計利息低於行業平均水平。截至年末，非應計費用分別佔公允價值總額債務投資的 0.9% 和成本的 2.2%。

Moving on to our dividend. We declared a first quarter 2025 regular dividend of $0.42 per share. CCAP has been paying stable or increasing regular quarterly based dividends since its inception in 2015. This dividend is payable on April 15, 2025 to stockholders of record as of March 31.

繼續討論我們的紅利。我們宣布 2025 年第一季的定期股息為每股 0.42 美元。自 2015 年成立以來，CCAP 一直支付穩定或增加的定期季度股息。該股將於 2025 年 4 月 15 日支付給截至 3 月 31 日登記在冊的股東。

We also announced a series of special dividends. Given the measurement test that we apply to our supplemental dividend, we have not declared a supplemental distribution of our excess NII this quarter. Gerhard will provide additional details on both in the latter part of our prepared remarks.

我們也宣布了一系列特別股息。鑑於我們對補充股利採用的測量測試，我們本季尚未宣布補充分配超額 NII。格哈德將在我們準備好的演講的後半部分提供有關這兩方面的更多細節。

I'd now like to turn it over to Henry to discuss the market, our Q4 investment activity, and the portfolio. Henry.

現在我想讓亨利討論市場、我們第四季的投資活動和投資組合。亨利。

Thanks, Jason. Deal activity continued to pick up in the fourth quarter, driven by a combination of lower borrowing costs due to base rate cuts and an upbeat economic outlook.

謝謝，傑森。受基準利率下調導致借貸成本下降和經濟前景樂觀等因素推動，第四季交易活動持續回升。

We are anticipating that LBO volumes and overall deal flow will continue to pick up through the first half of the year and beyond, resulting from a more favorable growth outlook, regulatory environment for M&A, and available private equity dry powder, coupled with a growing demand from private equity limited partners for distributions. These are several other factors we are monitoring that we believe will increase the momentum of the LBO activity that we've seen in recent quarters.

我們預計，由於更有利的成長前景、併購監管環境和可用的私募股權乾火藥，以及私募股權有限合夥人對分配的需求不斷增長，槓桿收購量和整體交易流量將在今年上半年及以後繼續回升。這些是我們正在監控的其他幾個因素，我們相信這些因素將增強我們在最近幾季看到的槓桿收購活動的勢頭。

We continue to believe direct lending delivers a compelling value proposition for our sponsors in the lower and core middle market given the benefits of our expertise, including speed and certainty of execution and flexibility and the ability to serve as a true partner in developing bespoke capital structures.

我們始終相信，憑藉我們專業知識的優勢，包括執行速度和確定性、靈活性，以及​​在開發定制資本結構方面充當真正的合作夥伴的能力，直接貸款能夠為中低端市場的讚助商提供引人注目的價值主張。

Please turn to slide 15 where we highlight our recent activity. Gross deployment in the fourth quarter totaled $127 million as you can see on the left-hand side of the page, of which 98% was in first le investments. During the quarter, we closed 14 new platform investments totaling $64 million. These new investments were loaned to private equity backed companies with a weighted average spread of approximately 510 basis points.

請翻到第 15 張投影片，我們在這裡重點介紹我們最近的活動。正如您在頁面左側看到的，第四季度的總部署總額為 1.27 億美元，其中 98% 用於首次投資。本季度，我們完成了 14 個新平台投資，總額達 6,400 萬美元。這些新投資貸給私募股權支持的公司，加權平均利差約為 510 個基點。

We continued to back well capitalized borrowers with significant equity cushions, and the weighted average loan the value of our new investments for the quarter was 38%. The remaining $63 million came from incremental investments in our existing portfolio companies. These were a strong source of capital deployment in 2024, as we saw high levels of opportunistic refinancing and accretive M&A add-on opportunities within our existing borrower universe.

我們繼續為資本充足的借款人提供大量股權緩衝，本季我們新投資的加權平均貸款價值為 38%。剩餘的 6,300 萬美元來自我們對現有投資組合公司的增量投資。這些是 2024 年資本部署的強大來源，因為我們看到現有借款人範圍內存在大量機會性再融資和增值性併購附加機會。

The $127 million in gross deployment compares to approximately $106 million in aggregate exits, sales, and repayments, resulting in debt deployment of approximately $21 million for the fourth quarter. Turning back to the broader portfolio, please flip the slide 16. You can see that the weighted average yield of our income producing securities at cost came down quarter over quarter to 10.9%, primarily due to a reduction in base rates.

總部署金額為 1.27 億美元，而退出、銷售和償還總額約為 1.06 億美元，導致第四季度的債務部署金額約為 2,100 萬美元。回到更廣泛的投資組合，請翻到第 16 張投影片。您可以看到，我們的創收證券的加權平均收益率按成本計算環比下降至 10.9%，這主要是由於基準利率下降所致。

This metric, represented by the dark blue line at the top of the chart includes the impact of income producing equity investments. As of December 30, 97% of our debt investments at fair value are floating rate with a weighted average floor of 79 basis points, which compares to our 66% floating rate liability structure based on debt drawn with no floors.

該指標由圖表頂部的深藍色線表示，包括產生收入的股權投資的影響。截至 12 月 30 日，我們以公允價值計算的債務投資中有 97% 是浮動利率，加權平均下限為 79 個基點，而我們的浮動利率負債結構中有 66% 是基於沒有下限的債務。

Overall, our investment portfolio continues to perform well with year over year weighted average revenue and even dog growth. The weighted average interest coverage of the company in our investment portfolio year end improved to 1.9 times as compared to 1.8 times and 1.7 times the prior two quarters. As a reminder, this calculation is based on the latest annualized base rate each quarter.

整體而言，我們的投資組合持續表現良好，加權平均收入逐年增加，甚至大幅成長。我們投資組合中該公司的加權平均利息覆蓋率在年底提高至 1.9 倍，而前兩個季度分別為 1.8 倍和 1.7 倍。提醒一下，此計算是基於每季最新的年化基準利率。

In terms of managing fixed operating costs, approximately 66% of aggregate revolver capacity was available across the portfolio as of year-end, so our portfolio companies in the aggregate remained well positioned to address fixed charges with operating cash flows and available balance sheet liquidity.

在管理固定營運成本方面，截至年底，整個投資組合中大約有 66% 的總循環信貸容量可用，因此，我們的投資組合公司總體上仍能很好地利用營運現金流和可用的資產負債表流動性來應對固定費用。

Our portfolio continues to benefit from the substantial amount of equity invested in our companies, most of its supplied by large and well established private equity firms with whom we have had long standing relationships and have partnered with multiple transactions, and we know that the weighted average loan to value in the portfolio to underwrite is approximately 40%.

我們的投資組合繼續受益於對我們公司的大量股權投資，其中大部分股權由大型且成熟的私募股權公司提供，我們與這些公司有著長期的合作關係並已進行過多次交易，我們知道承銷的投資組合的加權平均貸款價值比約為 40%。

With that, I will now turn it over to Gerhard.

現在我將把發言權交給 Gerhard。

Thanks, Henry and hello everyone. As Jason noted, our net investment income for a share of $0.55. For the fourth quarter of 2024 compared to $0.64 per share for the prior quarter and $0.61 per share for the fourth quarter of 2023.

謝謝，亨利，大家好。正如傑森所說，我們的每股淨投資收益為 0.55 美元。 2024 年第四季，上一季每股收益為 0.64 美元，2023 年第四季每股收益為 0.61 美元。

Total investment income of $46.4 million for the fourth quarter compares to $51.6 million for the prior quarter. Recurring interest income declined from $40.4 million to $37.7 million quarter over quarter, reflecting the impact of Fed rate cuts.

第四季總投資收入為 4,640 萬美元，而上一季為 5,160 萬美元。經常性利息收入從上一季的 4,040 萬美元下降至 3,770 萬美元，反映了聯準會降息的影響。

It's worth noting that all else equal. We expect interest income to decline further in Q1 to reflect the full quarter impact of rate cuts in the fourth quarter. CCAP's non-recurring investment income, which consists of accelerated amortization, fee income, and common stock dividends, decreased from $3.3 million to $1.2 million quarter over quarter. We had abnormally high levels of one-time prepayment income and accelerated OID from refinancing activity during Q3, as we noted on last quarter's polls.

值得注意的是，其他一切都相同。我們預計第一季的利息收入將進一步下降，以反映第四季降息對整個季度的影響。CCAP 的非經常性投資收入（包括加速攤銷、費用收入和普通股股息）從上一季的 330 萬美元減少到 120 萬美元。正如我們在上個季度的民意調查中所指出的，我們在第三季的一次性預付款收入和再融資活動加速的 OID 水準異常高。

Our GAAP earnings per share or net income for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $0.27, as net investment income of $0.55 was offset by $0.28 per share of net unrealized and realized losses. As of December 31st, our stockholders' equity was $741 million resulting in net asset value per share, $19.98.

我們 2024 年第四季的 GAAP 每股盈餘或淨收入為 0.27 美元，因為 0.55 美元的淨投資收益被每股 0.28 美元的淨未實現和已實現損失所抵銷。截至 12 月 31 日，我們的股東權益為 7.41 億美元，每股淨資產為 19.98 美元。

Now let's shift to our capitalization and liquidity. I'm on slide 19. On last quarter's call, I noted that we were evaluating strategies to extend the maturity date in our debt capital stack in a measured manner.

現在讓我們轉向資本化和流動性。我在第 19 張投影片。在上個季度的電話會議上，我指出我們正在評估以有節制的方式延長債務資本到期日的策略。

In December we amended the terms of our SMBC revolver, decreasing the size of the facility from $385 million to $310 million and pushing out the maturity from October 2026 to December 2029. Additionally, we priced $115 million of new senior unsecured notes broken down into two tranches, $35 million of senior unsecured notes due February 2028 and $80 million of senior unsecured notes due February 2030.

12 月，我們修改了 SMBC 循環信貸的條款，將信貸規模從 3.85 億美元縮減至 3.1 億美元，並將到期日從 2026 年 10 月推遲至 2029 年 12 月。此外，我們還對價值 1.15 億美元的新優先無擔保票據進行了定價，分為兩部分：價值 3,500 萬美元的高級無擔保票據將於 2028 年 2 月到期，價值 8,000 萬美元的高級無擔保票據將於 2030 年 2 月到期。

As you can see on the right-hand side of the slide, $297 million, or 25% of total committed death now matures in 2026. A figure that was 58% in the prior quarter, so we're pleased with our progress here. The weighted average stated interest rate on a total borrowing was 6.38% as of year-end, down from 6.59% in the prior quarter due primarily to base rate declines.

正如您在幻燈片右側看到的，2.97 億美元，即總死亡人數的 25%，將於 2026 年到期。上一季這一數字為 58%，因此我們對目前的進展感到滿意。截至年底，總借款的加權平均利率為 6.38%，低於上一季的 6.59%，主要原因是基準利率下降。

This does not reflect the borrowing cost on the new unsecured notes which funded this month.

這並未反映本月融資的新無擔保票據的借貸成本。

This quarter's positive net deployment brought our debt-to-equity ratio up from 1.15 times in the prior quarter to 1.19 times, which is within our stated target leverage range of 1.1 to 1.3 times. With $338 million of undrawn capacity subject to leverage borrowing based on other restrictions and $39 million in cash and cash equivalents as of year-end, we have sufficient liquidity to fund further investment activity while maintaining a debt-to-equity ratio inside our target range.

本季的正淨配置使我們的債務權益比率從上一季的 1.15 倍上升至 1.19 倍，這符合我們規定的 1.1 至 1.3 倍的目標槓桿率範圍。截至年底，我們擁有 3.38 億美元的未動用容量（根據其他限制，可透過槓桿借貸獲得），以及 3900 萬美元的現金和現金等價物，因此，我們擁有充足的流動性來為進一步的投資活動提供資金，同時將債務權益比維持在我們的目標範圍內。

As Jason noted for the first quarter of 2025, a board has declared a regular dividend of $0.42 per share. We've also announced a series of $0.35 per share special cash dividends related to undistributed taxable income. The first special dividend will be paid on March 14, for the second and third payable in June and September respectively.

正如傑森所說，董事會宣布 2025 年第一季的定期股息為每股 0.42 美元。我們還宣布了一系列與未分配應稅收入相關的每股 0.35 美元的特別現金股息。第一次特別股息將於3月14日派發，第二次和第三次特別股息分別將於6月和9月派發。

It's worth noting that our existing variable supplemental dividend framework remains in effect as well. Since announcing this framework in mid 2023, CCAP has paid $0.54 per share of cumulative supplementals. CCAP will not pay a supplemental for Q4 as the measurement test cap exceeded 50% of this quarter's excess available earnings, and with that, I'd like to turn it back to Jason for closing remarks.

值得注意的是，我們現有的可變補充股息框架仍然有效。自 2023 年中期宣布該框架以來，CCAP 已支付每股 0.54 美元的累積補充費用。由於測量測試上限超過了本季超額可用收益的 50%，CCAP 不會為第四季度支付補充費用，因此，我想將主題轉回給 Jason 進行結束語。

Thanks Gerhard. As we look forward over the remainder of 2025, we believe we're operating in an attractive environment for increased M&A, given the significant amount of dry powder on the sidelines, aging private equity portfolios, and a regulatory environment more conducive to dealmaking.

謝謝 Gerhard。展望 2025 年剩餘時間，我們相信，鑑於場外大量的待投資金、老化的私募股權投資組合以及更有利於交易的監管環境，我們正處於一個有利於增加併購的環境中。

Key economic indicators remain relatively healthy, and the market outlook suggests more stability around near-term base rates, which we view as a positive for broader LVO activity. We continue to apply our disciplined credit underwriting with a focus on capital preservation, strong free cash flow generation, and robust debt service coverage.

關鍵經濟指標仍然相對健康，市場前景表明近期基準利率將更加穩定，我們認為這對更廣泛的 LVO 活動有利。我們將繼續實施嚴格的信用承保，重點關注資本保全、強勁的自由現金流產生和健全的債務償還覆蓋範圍。

We believe the growing dispersion of performance and returns across managers will continue to accelerate as rates stay elevated. We believe Crescent and CCAP will continue to be on the right side of this performance dispersion spectrum, and we look forward to delivering on that in quarters to come. As always, we thank you for joining our call today and look forward to connecting with many of you soon, and with that operator we can open the line for questions.

我們相信，隨著利率維持在高位，不同經理人的績效和報酬差距將持續拉大。我們相信 Crescent 和 CCAP 將繼續處於此效能分散範圍的正確一側，我們期待在未來幾季實現這一目標。像往常一樣，感謝您今天的電話會議，我們期待著很快與你們中的許多人取得聯繫，透過那位接線員，我們可以開通熱線來回答問題。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will love again the Question and answer session.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，我們將再次喜愛問答環節。

[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Mr. Robert Dodd from Raymond James. Please go ahead, sir.

[操作員指示] 我們的第一個問題來自雷蒙德詹姆斯 (Raymond James) 的羅伯特多德先生。先生，請繼續。

Hi guys, just, I just want to ask a couple of questions about the increase in the re-rated assets, right? So you say you added 7 names, and you want to be proactive about it, not wait too late, but was there any, common themes that drove that and then any if there were, any of those, starting to become visible in any other areas of the portfolio.

大家好，我只是想問幾個關於重新評級資產增加的問題，對嗎？所以你說你添加了 7 個名字，並且你想積極主動地做這件事，不要等得太晚，但是是否有任何共同的主題推動了這一點，然後如果有的話，其中任何一個開始在投資組合的任何其他領域變得可見。

Hey Robert, it's Jason. I think. The seven new names, I would say they all have company sort of specific challenges. That said, we are paying close attention to potential thematic or industry indicators. I think maybe Henry, you want to comment on that.

嘿，羅伯特，我是傑森。我認為。我想說，這七個新名字都面臨著公司特定的挑戰。話雖如此，我們正在密切關注潛在的主題或行業指標。我想也許亨利你想對此發表評論。

Yeah, I'd say there's a handful of themes that we are noticing that we certainly want to. Provide some additional color on and there's a few subsectors that we found have just been quite a bit more challenged, one of them is third party logistics.

是的，我想說我們注意到了一些我們確實想要討論的主題。提供一些額外的信息，我們發現一些子行業面臨相當大的挑戰，其中之一就是第三方物流。

There's just been broader compression and freight rates across the industry as a whole that have created some top line pressures on the companies that deal within that specific subsector.

整個產業都出現了更大範圍的壓縮和運費上漲，這給該特定子行業的公司帶來了一些營收壓力。

Another that we have been keeping a close eye on is Packaging, there's been some destocking trends in certain markets that we're certainly keeping a close eye on, but that's a dynamic that hasn't yet returned to I'd say historical norms and then the last kind of subsector that we're particularly focused on is businesses that are indexed to kind of early stage. Medtech biotech development, those sectors have been quite a bit more impacted by just overseeing rates as a whole, given access to capital at the end customers there.

我們一直密切關注的另一個行業是包裝行業，某些市場出現了一些去庫存趨勢，我們當然也在密切關注，但這種動態還沒有恢復到歷史常態，我們特別關注的最後一類子行業是那些處於早期階段的企業。醫療技術生物技術開發，這些行業受到整體監管利率的影響要大得多，因為它們能夠獲得最終客戶的資本。

So I'd say that those three are smaller subsectors collectively less than about 4% of the portfolio that we are surely keeping a close eye on.

因此我想說，這三個是較小的子行業，合計佔投資組合的比重不到 4%，我們肯定會密切關注它們。

The last note that I will leave you with here is with the watch lists as a whole, what we're noticing more broadly, and this isn't necessarily for the new names that were added to the watch list this quarter, is businesses that are indexed to consumers as the end user of the product or service in the event that those companies are on the watch list, and they are taking longer to recover than what we've seen traditionally or historically. In the watch list overall, so I'd say that that those are certainly exhibiting a longer.

我最後要說的是，就整個觀察名單而言，我們更廣泛地註意到，這不一定是針對本季度添加到觀察名單中的新名稱，即那些被納入觀察名單的企業，這些企業是作為產品或服務的最終用戶的消費者，而這些公司如果在觀察名單上，那麼它們的複蘇時間將比我們傳統或歷史上所見的更長。在整體觀察名單中，我想說的是，這些肯定會表現出更長的時間。

Then what we are seeing kind of more broadly across the portfolio.

然後我們在整個投資組合中看到更廣泛的情況。

Got it. I appreciate that. I mean just kind of following on with that. I mean, have you got any preliminary thoughts on exposure or risk from like tariffs or Doge and government contracting and cost cutting anything, what's your, yeah, you have a gauge on your relative potential.

知道了。我很感激。我的意思就是繼續這樣下去。我的意思是，您對關稅、總督府和政府合約以及削減成本等方面的風險有什麼初步想法嗎？是的，您對自己的相對潛力有一個衡量標準。

Exposure there. Thanks Robert. Jason here, it's definitely a topic that we're spending a lot of time thinking about. It seems to be in the news every day. It's probably a little premature to get into specifics, but if tariffs do become meaningful in reality, I think it certainly has an impact on US companies. We've tried to drill down into our portfolio a bit in terms of thinking about specific exposures, so maybe Henry wants to touch on that as well.

在那裡曝光。謝謝羅伯特。我是傑森，這絕對是我們花了很多時間思考的一個主題。這似乎每天都會出現在新聞裡。現在討論具體細節可能還為時過早，但如果關稅確實在現實中變得有意義，我認為這肯定會對美國公司產生影響。我們嘗試深入研究我們的投資組合，考慮具體的風險敞口，因此亨利也許也想談談這一點。

Yeah, I'll start with the tariff piece of it. So what we've really looked at are companies where they are sourcing a material portion of the cost of goods sold from foreign suppliers, and we're looking at this.

是的，我將從關稅部分開始。因此，我們真正關注的是那些從國外供應商採購大部分銷售成本的公司，我們正在研究這一點。

I'd say a much broader basis, so looking at it based on three categorizations as a whole, that given how service oriented our portfolio is a pretty small percentage of our portfolio, roughly around 12% of their value today if you just kind of look at industry categorizations that do procure materials from foreign suppliers.

我想說的是更廣泛的基礎，因此從整體上看，基於三個分類，考慮到我們的投資組合以服務為導向，只占我們投資組合的很小一部分，如果你只看從國外供應商採購材料的行業分類，那麼今天這一比例大約佔其價值的 12% 左右。

On the second part of your question around doge, we also looked at companies that derive. A majority of the revenue directly from the government. The primary sector where we have that dynamic present is within software where there's a government agency that's the end user of that product or service, but that overall in terms of a total of our portfolio is less than 5%.

關於您關於 DOGE 問題的第二部分，我們也研究了衍生公司。大部分收入直接來自政府。我們目前擁有這種動態的主要領域是軟體領域，其中政府機構是該產品或服務的最終用戶，但總體而言，就我們的投資組合總額而言，該領域還不到 5%。

So overall I'd say on both of those fronts, we're looking at a minority of the portfolio. That has, and I really want to kind of underscore this potential exposure to some of the actions that we're seeing on both the tariff side as well as the broader reduction in overall government agencies.

所以總的來說，我想說，在這兩個方面，我們都只關注投資組合中的少數部分。這是真的，我真的想強調我們在關稅方面以及政府機構整體削減方面看到的一些行動的潛在影響。

God, I appreciate that color there. One more on spreads, I mean, there has been, repricing activity, market spreadsaer, etc. I stable, but how much of the back book in the portfolio, if you will, has not undergone repricing yet or, and do you think there's some risk.

天哪，我很欣賞那裡的顏色。再問一個關於利差的問題，我的意思是，有重新定價活動、市場利差等。我很穩定，但是如果你願意的話，投資組合中有多少後期帳簿還沒有經過重新定價，或者，你認為是否有風險。

Where spreads in what portion of portfolio above the sort of market today and it's a business that could potentially reprice over the next, call it 12 months.

當今投資組合中多大比例的利差高於市場水平，而這項業務可能會在未來 12 個月內重新定價。

Yeah, I'll start off by commenting on I think the repricing dynamic we saw it all throughout last year and in in the event that. LBO volumes which I think folks are generally expecting to return to more historical levels. To the extent that that dynamic does not come to fruition, I think the repricing risk remains heightened because it's really a function of broader anemic deal activity on the new LBO front.

是的，我首先要評論一下我們在去年全年以及在這種情況下看到的重新定價動態。我認為人們普遍預期槓桿收購量將回到歷史水準。如果這項動態沒有實現，我認為重新定價的風險仍然會很高，因為這實際上是新槓桿收購方面更廣泛的交易活動乏力的結果。

So I'd say it's a little bit of a chicken and egg question where if we do see volumes kind of come back on the new LBO front, I would expect the repricing dynamic to certainly subside from what we've seen last year.

因此，我認為這有點像先有雞還是先有蛋的問題，如果我們確實看到新槓桿收購的交易量有所回升，我預計重新定價的動態肯定會比去年有所減弱。

However, if we do see kind of sluggish LBO volumes, it's likely that we'll continue to fewer pricings in the portfolio, so. I think it's really just going to be a corollary of what's happening broadly, more broadly with deals.

然而，如果我們確實看到槓桿收購量低迷，我們很可能會繼續減少投資組合中的定價。我認為這實際上只是廣泛發生的交易的必然結果。

I'll jump in there as well, Robert. I think the fundraising environment certainly plays a factor in the repricing dynamic and a lot of the capital being raised that needs to get deployed right away is in the non-traded space on the wealth side.

我也會加入其中，羅伯特。我認為籌資環境肯定會在重新定價動態中發揮一定作用，並且大量需要立即部署的籌集資金都位於財富方面的非交易領域。

That market is, excuse me. Generally seeing flows of $2billion to $3 billion a month. When you segment that market into sort of managers that are generally targeting the upper mid-market and we would define that as, north of a couple $100 million of EBITDA We think that's about 90% of the flows that are coming into the market today.

對不起，那個市場是。通常每月的流量為 20 億至 30 億美元。當您將市場細分為通常針對中高端市場的管理者時，我們將其定義為 EBITDA 超過幾億美元，我們認為這約佔當今進入市場的資金流的 90%。

So as you think about it and as we think about where the pressure is concentrated, I think it's more concentrated at the upper end of the middle market. Because of those flows and certainly the broadly syndicated loan alternative that issuers have as they when they get larger in size.

所以當你思考這個問題並且思考壓力集中在哪裡時，我認為它更集中在中端市場的高端。因為這些資金流動，以及當發行人規模擴大時，他們所擁有的廣泛的銀團貸款替代方案。

I appreciate that. Thank you.

我很感激。謝謝。

Thank You. Our next question comes from the line of Mickey Schleien from Ladenburg. Sir, please go ahead.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自拉登堡的 Mickey Schleien。先生，請說。

Yes.Good afternoon. A lot of good questions already asked. I was just hoping you could break down at least at a high level, what drove the realized and unrealized gains and losses for the quarter.

是的，下午好。已經提出了很多好問題。我只是希望您至少可以從宏觀角度分析一下導致本季已實現和未實現損益的因素。

Thanks, Mickey. On the unrealized side. We certainly had some individual movers watch list related. We did have a pickup in non-accruals as well, so we had some movement in some isolated names.

謝謝，米奇。在未實現的一面。我們確實有一些相關的個人搬家觀察名單。我們的非應計項目也確實有所回升，因此一些孤立的名稱也有一些變動。

Gerhard, do you have any other color for Mickey on that?

格哈德，你還有其他顏色適合米奇嗎？

Hi, Mickey. It's a good question. We did look at this kind of heading into the cold. There are no significant I think individually material movers in that unrealized bucket. It's really attributable to, some of the comments were made on the on the prepared remarks, which is slight increase in the three rated assets.

嗨，米奇。這是個好問題。我們確實考慮過這種走向寒冷的方式。我認為，在未實現的桶子裡不存在任何單獨的重大物質推動因素。這確實歸因於，一些評論是在準備好的評論中發表的，這三項評級資產略有增加。

So as we saw the watch list names increase, the watchlists is what we define three, four and five rated from a risk perspective. There's really a migration. About I want to say about $40 million of increased quarter of a quarter. That's really what drove the higher unrealized versus individual credit Deterioration.

因此，我們看到監視名單名稱不斷增加，從風險角度來看，監視名單就是我們定義的三級、四級和五級。確實存在遷移。我想說的是，上一季大約增加了 4000 萬美元。這才是導致未實現信用惡化與個人信用惡化加劇的真正原因。

Okay, thank you for. That my only question this afternoon.

好的，謝謝你。這是我今天下午唯一的問題。

Thanks Mickey.

謝謝米奇。

[Operator Instructions] Our last question comes from the line of Paul Jenson from KBW, sir, please go ahead.

[操作員指示] 我們的最後一個問題來自 KBW 的 Paul Jenson，先生，請繼續。

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. On the new nonaccruals this quarter, iLending, Merical [ph], Mann Lake, are those Crescent-originated investments or are those legacy investments from acquisitions?

午安.感謝您回答我的問題。本季新的未計項目，iLending、Merical [ph]、Mann Lake，這些是 Crescent 發起的投資還是來自收購的遺留投資？

One of the three was Crescent, the other two were Legacy Paul.

三人中一個是Crescent，另外兩個是Legacy Paul。

Okay, and then I mean in terms of you know like the new non-accruals and maybe kind of talking about the watch list names, three rated investments, the majority of these investments does this Crescent have are these Crescent led deals where there's there's a controlling stake, that the adviser has in these loans.

好的，然後我的意思是，就您知道的新的不計提項目以及可能談論的觀察名單名稱而言，三種評級投資，這些投資中的大多數都是 Crescent 主導的交易，其中顧問擁有這些貸款的控股權。

Yeah, the majority, this is Henry, the majority of the names that are on the watch list are crescent originated, and they are tranches that we either agent or control or both.

是的，大多數，這是亨利，監視名單上的大多數名字都來自新月，它們是我們代理或控製或兩者兼而有之的部分。

I think the other side of the question, which is what percentage of these are acquired assets, so roughly. Just around 20% of the watch list are going to be assets, and I'm quoting this on a fair value basis, are assets that were, acquired through, both Alcentra and First Eagle.

我認為問題的另一面是，其中有多少比例是收購的資產，大致如此。觀察名單中大約 20% 是資產，我是按照公允價值引用的，這些資產是透過 Alcentra 和 First Eagle 收購的。

Okay, thanks for that. That's helpful. And then, I just on Mickey's question, I didn't catch it if you said it on the end, but on the realized loss portion, what was the driver this this quarter? It looked like a fairly big realized loss was crystallized. Was there anything in there that was exited?

好的，謝謝。這很有幫助。然後，我只是回答米奇的問題，如果您最後這麼說的話我沒聽清楚，但是關於已實現損失部分，本季度的驅動因素是什麼？看起來相當大的實際損失已經顯現。那裡有什麼東西興奮嗎？

Yeah, so the primary driver there was the restructuring of a portfolio company that was no accrual last quarter, CECO, so that slipped from unrealized to realize in the quarter. We completed a restructuring there and as a result incurred a realized loss related to that position.

是的，主要的驅動因素是投資組合公司 CECO 的重組，該公司上個季度沒有應計利潤，因此本季該公司的利潤從未變為實現。我們在那裡完成了重組，並因此產生了與該職位相關的已實現損失。

Okay, thanks for that, and then. Just kind of looking at some of the new investments this quarter, I saw, several 475s, below 500 basis points spread. Would you say that's kind of where the market is at today, where spreads are now kind of pushing below that 500 mark in the lower core kind of middle market or I mean, was this more of a maybe a phenomenon kind of out of the fourth quarter where a large number of investments were funded at a lower spread.

好的，謝謝，然後。看看本季的一些新投資，我發現有幾隻 475 的利差低於 500 個基點。您認為目前的市場狀況是否如此？在較低的核心中端市場中，利差現在已經跌破 500 大關，還是說這更像是第四季的現象，大量投資以較低的利差進行融資。

I'd say it's certainly, at least for Q4 specifically, it seems to be the latter just kind of looking at where we are in Q1. For the quarter as a whole, the weighted average spread of our investments was right around that five and also, we are still seeing deals that come within that band that are within the core of lower middle market.

我想說肯定是，至少對於第四季而言，似乎是後者，只是看看我們在第一季的情況。就整個季度而言，我們投資的加權平均利差就在 5 左右，我們仍然看到處於該範圍內的交易處於中低端市場的核心。

We've certainly seen deals that have price tighter than that and I think where we are today, we're continuing to hold our pricing discipline in line with where we have been over the last several quarters, but certainly I think it's indicative, particularly of larger borrowers that are more within that core middle market spectrum of size.

我們當然看到價格比這更嚴格的交易，我認為，就目前情況而言，我們將繼續保持與過去幾個季度相同的定價紀律，但我認為這肯定具有指示性，特別是對於更屬於核心中型市場規模的較大借款人而言。

And also, kind of more kind of touch upon a deal size where the tranches are larger and more relevant for some of the new capital that's coming to the space, you'll see us get below that 500 threshold.

此外，更多地觸及交易規模，其中部分金額較大且與進入該領域的一些新資本更相關，您會看到我們低於 500 的門檻。

Well, it's Jason here. The other thing that I would just add to that is that. When we think about structure, we generally tighten terms and tighten leverage the smaller the issuer is and so. Most of the time when we're underwriting in the lower bid market with companies that are $10 or $20 million of with DA, we're not stretching too deep into the capital stack. It looks more like a traditional first lien, which, for Q4 represented about 20% of deployment.

嗯，我是傑森。我還要補充的是。當我們考慮結構時，我們通常會收緊條款，發行人越小，槓桿率就越高。大多數時候，當我們在較低出價市場為 DA 為 1000 萬美元或 2000 萬美元的公司承銷時，我們不會深入資本堆疊。它看起來更像是傳統的第一留置權，在第四季度佔部署的約 20%。

But with the lower leverage in that lower middle market segment, we are certainly seeing transactions getting done in the, mid to high fours in terms of spread.

但由於中低端市場槓桿率較低，我們肯定會看到交易在價差的中高程度完成。

Got it thanks for that detail. That's very helpful. You also gave some pretty good information in terms of your thoughts on tariffs, exposure, potential exposure there.

明白了，謝謝提供詳細資訊。這非常有幫助。您還就關稅、風險暴露和潛在風險暴露的看法提供了一些非常好的資訊。

But I'm also curious, I mean traditionally the portfolio, for yourself as well as private credit broadly portfolios have been primarily services, business focused and. I'm just curious, with all the discussions on tariffs, I mean, does that in any way, I guess, change the opportunity for, more manufacturing type of businesses, CapEx heavy type of businesses, is there a changing opportunity there at all?

但我也很好奇，我的意思是傳統上，對於您自己以及私人信貸而言，投資組合主要是以服務和業務為中心。我只是很好奇，關於關稅的所有討論，我的意思是，這是否會以某種方式改變製造型企業、資本支出密集型企業的機會，是否存在改變的機會？

I think this is Henry speaking and Jason can chime in if he has other thoughts, but. It's going back to our inception, we've really shied away from businesses that have a heavy kind of fixed charge and CapEx for capital need for the reasons that we are very focused on how much cash flow there is from the underlying portfolio companies to service our debt service.

我想這是亨利在說話，如果傑森有其他想法的話也可以插話，但是。追溯到我們成立之初，我們確實避開了那些有大量固定費用和資本支出的企業，因為我們非常關注有多少來自基礎投資組合公司的現金流來償還我們的債務。

And whether they, whether this is the materials are procured abroad or domestically that dynamic really doesn't change in an environment where we have tariffs and where we don't.

無論這些材料是在國外還是國內採購，在有關稅和沒有關稅的環境下，這種動態實際上都不會改變。

So I think what you'll continue to see even in this is we're going to stick to our knitting in terms of where we're focused just in terms of how the businesses are capitalized, what their operating models are, and I don't necessarily see us leaning more into domestic businesses that have A higher capital needs and heavier CapEx requirements, even though more broadly across the macro or the US economy there may be opportunities there.

因此，我認為，即使在這種情況下，您仍將繼續看到我們將繼續堅持我們的重點，即我們的重點是如何使業務資本化，它們的運營模式是什麼，而且我不認為我們會更多地傾向於具有更高資本需求和更重資本支出要求的國內業務，即使從宏觀或美國經濟的角度來看，那裡可能存在機會。

Got it, thank you, that's all for me.

知道了，謝謝，對我來說就這樣了。

Thanks Paul.

謝謝保羅。

Thank you. That concludes our Q&A session. I will now turn the call back to our CEO Jason Breaux for closing remarks.

謝謝。我們的問答環節到此結束。現在我將電話轉回給我們的執行長 Jason Breaux 來做結束語。

Okay, well, thank you everyone for your continued interest and your questions on CCAP. We look forward to speaking with you all soon.

好的，非常感謝大家對 CCAP 的持續關注和提問。我們期待很快與大家交談。

That concludes our conference call for today. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。