Crescent Capital BDC Inc (CCAP) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone and welcome to the Q2 2024 Crescent Capital BDC earnings conference call.

大家好，歡迎參加 Crescent Capital BDC 2024 年第二季財報電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) Please note this call may be recorded. It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Dan McMahon, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

（操作員說明）請注意，此通話可能會被錄音。現在我很高興將會議交給投資者關係主管 Dan McMahon。請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to Crescent Capital BDC, Inc's second quarter ended June 30, 2024, earnings conference call. Please note that Crescent Capital BDC may be referred to as CCAP, Crescent BDC, or the company throughout the call.

早安，歡迎參加 Crescent Capital BDC, Inc 截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日的第二季財報電話會議。請注意，Crescent Capital BDC 在整個電話會議中可能被稱為 CCAP、Crescent BDC 或公司。

Before we begin, I'll start with some important reminders. Comments made over the course of this call and webcast may contain forward-looking statements and are subject to risks and uncertainties, the company's actual results could differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements for any reason, including those listed in its SEC filings.

在我們開始之前，我將先提出一些重要的提醒。在本次電話會議和網路廣播過程中發表的評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，並受到風險和不確定性的影響，公司的實際結果可能因任何原因與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果存在重大差異，包括在其SEC 中列出的結果備案。

The company assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements. Please also note that past performance or market information is not a guarantee of future results. Yesterday, after the market closed, the company issued its earnings press release for the second quarter ended June 30, 2024, and posted a presentation to the Investor Relations section of its website at crescentbdc.com. The presentation should be reviewed in conjunction with the company's Form 10-Q filed yesterday with the SEC.

該公司不承擔更新任何此類前瞻性陳述的義務。另請注意，過去的表現或市場資訊並不能保證未來的結果。昨天收盤後，該公司發布了截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日的第二季度收益新聞稿，並在其網站 Crescentbdc.com 的投資者關係部分發布了簡報。該演示文稿應與該公司昨天向 SEC 提交的 10-Q 表格一起進行審查。

As a reminder, this call is being recorded for replay purposes. Speaking on today's call will be CCAP's Chief Executive Officer, Jason Breaux; President, Henry Chung; and Chief Financial Officer, Gerhard Lombard.

謹此提醒，本次通話將會被錄音以供重播。CCAP 執行長 Jason Breaux 將在今天的電話會議上發表演說；主席亨利·鐘；格哈德·隆巴德 (Gerhard Lombard) 和財務長。

With that, I'd now like to turn it over to Jason.

有了這個，我現在想把它交給傑森。

Thank you, Dan. Hello, everyone, and thank you all for joining us today. It was great to see some of you in person at our inaugural Analyst and Investor Day in early June. I'll start today's call by highlighting our second quarter results, follow that with some thoughts on our investment approach and touch on our portfolio.

謝謝你，丹。大家好，感謝大家今天加入我們。很高興在六月初的首屆分析師和投資者日現場見到你們中的一些人。我將在今天的電話會議開始時重點介紹我們第二季度的業績，然後對我們的投資方法和投資組合進行一些思考。

Yesterday evening, we reported another quarter of solid earnings with continued strong credit performance across the portfolio. Net investment income, or NII, was $0.59 per share, which translates into an annualized NII return on equity of 11.7%.

昨天晚上，我們報告了另一個季度的穩健收益，整個投資組合的信貸表現持續強勁。淨投資收益 (NII) 為每股 0.59 美元，相當於年化 NII 股本回報率為 11.7%。

With our earnings, again, well in excess of the recently increased regular dividend, our Board has declared a supplemental dividend for the second quarter of $0.09 per share. When coupled with our previously declared regular dividend of $0.42 per share, this equates to a 10% annualized dividend yield on June 30, 2024, NAV. The strength of our earnings also led to growth in our net asset value, which increased to $20.30 per share, which is the highest been since June 2022.

由於我們的收益再次遠遠超過最近增加的定期股息，我們的董事會宣布第二季的補充股息為每股 0.09 美元。加上我們先前宣布的每股 0.42 美元的定期股息，這相當於 2024 年 6 月 30 日的年化股息收益率為 10%（資產淨值）。強勁的獲利也帶動了我們的淨資產值成長，淨值增加至每股 20.30 美元，這是自 2022 年 6 月以來的最高水準。

Let's shift gears and discuss the investment portfolio. Before I get into specific data points, I'd like to spend a minute on our investment approach and where we seek to meet new opportunities. It's no secret that in recent quarters, there has been a lot of competition in private credit, both with the syndicated markets and significant capital that we have seen raised in the sector. In recent quarters, the average tranche size of transactions that are being refinanced by the direct lending markets from the syndicated markets is well north of $1 billion.

讓我們換個話題來討論一下投資組合。在討論具體數據點之前，我想花一點時間介紹我們的投資方法以及我們尋求新機會的地方。眾所周知，最近幾個季度，私人信貸領域存在著激烈的競爭，既有銀團市場的競爭，也有我們在該領域籌集到的大量資本的競爭。最近幾季，直接貸款市場從銀團市場進行再融資的平均交易規模遠遠超過 10 億美元。

This segment of the market is not where we focus. Where we focus our efforts is in what we call the lower and core middle market, segments of the market that are typically not able or less able to access the syndicated loan markets due to issuer size. So issuers with EBITDA of $10 million on the low end, up to roughly $150 million to $200 million on the high end.

這部分市場不是我們關注的重點。我們重點關注的是我們所說的中低端市場和核心中端市場，這些市場部分由於發行人規模的原因通常無法或不太能夠進入銀團貸款市場。因此，發行人的 EBITDA 低端為 1000 萬美元，高端約為 1.5 億至 2 億美元。

In the lower and core middle market, we are able to directly negotiate terms with our sponsors that have structural features around collateral protection that we deem critical for investing in the space. This is in direct contrast with the looser documentation for some of the mega unitranche deals fit over the past few quarters that resembled broadly syndicated loan documents, some of which have garnered significant public attention.

在中低端和核心中端市場，我們能夠直接與贊助商談判條款，這些贊助商具有我們認為對於投資該領域至關重要的抵押品保護結構特徵。這與過去幾季一些大型統一貸款交易的寬鬆文件形成鮮明對比，這些文件類似於廣泛的銀團貸款文件，其中一些已經引起了公眾的廣泛關注。

Our segment focus provides us with opportunity to truly lead our transactions and drive the documentation. We are focused on strong cash flow generation, tight EBITDA definitions as well as enhanced monitoring rights, which allow us to be proactive versus reactive as we think about our approach to portfolio management.

我們對細分市場的關注為我們提供了真正主導交易和推動文件記錄的機會。我們專注於強勁的現金流量產生、嚴格的 EBITDA 定義以及增強的監控權，這使我們在考慮投資組合管理方法時能夠採取主動而非被動的態度。

We are cash flow lenders, so we focus on underwriting businesses that have been operating for a long time and have a history of being able to generate cash flow consistently with low working capital requirements. It's for these reasons, we do not invest in annual recurring revenue or ARR loans.

我們是現金流貸方，因此我們專注於承保那些營運時間較長且具有能夠在較低營運資金要求下持續產生現金流的歷史的企業。正是由於這些原因，我們不投資於年度經常性收入或 ARR 貸款。

Please turn to slide 13 and 14 of the presentation, which highlights certain characteristics of our portfolio. We ended the quarter with approximately $1.6 billion of investments at fair value across a highly diversified portfolio of 183 companies with an average investment size of approximately 0.5% of the total portfolio.

請參閱簡報的投影片 13 和 14，其中重點介紹了我們產品組合的某些特徵。本季結束時，我們在由 183 家公司組成的高度多元化的投資組合中以公允價值進行了約 16 億美元的投資，平均投資規模約佔投資組合總額的 0.5%。

We've deliberately maintained an investment portfolio that consists primarily of first lien loans, collectively representing 90% of the portfolio at fair value at quarter end, unchanged from the prior quarter. We continue to focus our investing efforts on noncyclical industries and remain well diversified across 20 broad district categorizations.

我們刻意維持了一個主要由第一留置權貸款組成的投資組合，在季度末以公允價值計算，合計佔投資組合的 90%，與上一季持平。我們繼續將投資重點放在非週期性產業，並在 20 個主要地區類別中保持多元化。

Our investments are almost entirely supported by well-capitalized private equity sponsors with 98% of our debt portfolio and sponsor-backed companies as of quarter end. We have been pleased with the fundamental performance of our portfolio, as indicated by our performance ratings and nonaccrual levels.

截至季末，我們的投資幾乎完全由資本充足的私募股權贊助商（占我們債務投資組合的 98%）和贊助商支持的公司支持。正如我們的績效評級和非應計水準所示，我們對投資組合的基本表現感到滿意。

Our weighted average portfolio grade of 2.1 remained stable quarter over quarter, and on slide 17, you will see the percentage of risk rated one and two investments, the highest ratings our portfolio companies can receive accounted for 89% of the portfolio at fair value also stable quarter over quarter.

我們的加權平均投資組合評級為2.1，季度與季度保持穩定，在幻燈片17 上，您將看到風險評級為一項和兩項投資的百分比，我們的投資組合公司可以獲得的最高評級也佔公允價值投資組合的89%季季穩定。

As of quarter end, we had investments in eight portfolio companies on nonaccrual status, representing 1.6% and 0.9% of our total debt investments at cost and fair value, respectively, which was flat quarter over-quarter.

截至季末，我們對 8 家投資組合公司的投資處於非應計狀態，分別佔以成本和公允價值計算的債務投資總額的 1.6% 和 0.9%，與上一季持平。

I'd now like to turn it over to Henry to discuss the market, our Q2 investment activity, and the portfolio. Henry?

我現在想把它交給亨利討論市場、我們第二季的投資活動和投資組合。亨利？

Thanks, Jason. Middle market loan volume for the first half of the year increased nearly 20% as compared to the second half of 2023, with most of the pickup in volume driven by refinancing activity. LBO activity, which represented approximately one-third of middle-market loan volume in the first half of 2024, continues to increase, albeit modestly, driven by continued strong business fundamentals better clarity on rates, declining spreads and strong demand from the private credit market.

謝謝，傑森。與 2023 年下半年相比，今年上半年的中間市場貸款量增加了近 20%，其中大部分的增量是由再融資活動推動。槓桿收購活動約佔2024 年上半年中間市場貸款量的三分之一，在業務基本面持續強勁、利率更加清晰、利差下降以及私人信貸市場強勁需求的推動下，槓桿收購活動繼續增加（儘管增幅不大） 。

Coupled with the margin pressure from LPs to return capital, we believe that conditions are in place for LBO volumes to continue to accelerate in the second half of the year. And while the syndicated markets are open, as Jason discussed, we believe the direct lending market remains the market of choice for sponsors in the lower and core middle market given the benefits of the direct lending expertise offered by managers like Crescent including speed and uncertainty of execution and flexibility around the ability to craft bespoke capital structures.

再加上有限合夥人返還資本的利潤壓力，我們認為下半年槓桿收購量繼續加速的條件已經具備。正如Jason 所討論的，雖然銀團市場是開放的，但我們認為，鑑於Crescent 等管理機構提供的直接貸款專業知識的優勢，包括貸款速度和不確定性，直接貸款市場仍然是中低端和核心中端市場發起人的首選市場。

Please turn to slide 15 where we highlight our recent activity. Gross deployment in the first quarter totaled $119 million. As you can see on the left-hand side of the page, 92% of which was in senior secured first lien and clean net tranche investments. During the quarter, we closed six new platform investments totaling $62 million, with the remaining $57 million coming from incremental investments in our existing portfolio companies.

請翻到投影片 15，我們重點介紹了我們最近的活動。第一季的總部署總額為 1.19 億美元。正如您在頁面左側看到的，其中 92% 是優先擔保第一留置權和淨淨部分投資。本季度，我們完成了六項新平台投資，總額達 6,200 萬美元，其餘 5,700 萬美元則來自對現有投資組合公司的增量投資。

Incremental investments as a percentage of overall activity was elevated in the first half of 2024 compared to prior periods as we continue to see higher levels of opportunistic refinancing and add-on opportunities within our existing borrower universe. This provides an ongoing opportunity set for us to make incremental investments in existing well-performing companies seeking to grow via pursuit of accretive M&A.

與前期相比，2024 年上半年增量投資佔整體活動的百分比有所上升，因為我們繼續看到現有借款人範圍內機會主義再融資和附加機會的水平更高。這為我們提供了一個持續的機會，可以對現有業績良好、尋求透過增值併購實現成長的公司進行增量投資。

The $119 million in gross deployment compares to approximately $73 million in aggregate exits, sales and repayments resulting in $46 million of deployment on a net basis. The new investments during the first quarter were loans to private equity-backed companies with sulfur floors, attractive fees, and a weighted average spread of approximately 530 basis points. We continue to back well-capitalized borrowers with significant equity cushions and the weighted average loan to value of our new investments for the quarter was 31%.

總部署額為 1.19 億美元，而退出、銷售和還款總額約為 7,300 萬美元，淨部署額為 4,600 萬美元。第一季的新投資是向私募股權支持的公司提供的貸款，這些貸款具有硫磺底線、有吸引力的費用以及約 530 個基點的加權平均利差。我們持續為資本充足的借款人提供大量股權緩衝，本季新投資的加權平均貸款價值率為 31%。

Turning back to the broader portfolio, please flip to slide 16. You see the weighted average yield of income-producing securities at cost came down modestly quarter over quarter to 12.2% primarily due to lower yielding assets that we originated in the second quarter, coupled with the exit and higher-yielding assets. As a reminder, this metric represented by the line at the top of the chart now includes the impact of income-producing equity investments. This includes dividends from the Logan JV as well as our partnership interests in GACP II and WhiteHawk.

回到更廣泛的投資組合，請翻到投影片 16。您會看到，以成本計算的創收證券的加權平均收益率環比小幅下降至12.2%，這主要是由於我們在第二季度推出的收益率較低的資產，以及退出和收益率較高的資產。提醒一下，圖表頂部的線代表的這項指標現在包括創收股權投資的影響。這包括來自 Logan JV 的股息以及我們在 GACP II 和 WhiteHawk 中的合夥權益。

As of June 30, 97% of our debt investments at fair value were floating rate with a weighted average floor of 80 basis points which compares to our 67% floating rate liability structure based on debt drawn with yield floors. Overall, our portfolio continues to perform well with strong year-over-year weighted average revenue and EBITDA growth. That being said, we have continued to closely monitor the impact of borrowing costs on our portfolio companies given the elevated interest rate backdrop.

截至 6 月 30 日，我們以公允價值計算的債務投資中有 97% 為浮動利率，加權平均下限為 80 個基點，而我們的浮動利率負債結構為 67%，基於債務和收益率下限。總體而言，我們的投資組合持續表現良好，加權平均收入和 EBITDA 年比強勁成長。話雖如此，鑑於利率上升的背景，我們繼續密切關注借貸成本對我們投資組合公司的影響。

The weighted average interest coverage of the companies in our investment portfolio at quarter end remained stable at 1.7 times as compared to the prior quarter. As a reminder, this calculation is based on the latest annualized base rate each quarter.

季末投資組合中公司的加權平均利息覆蓋率較上季穩定在1.7倍。提醒一下，此計算是基於每季最新的年化基本利率。

We also continue to closely monitor how our portfolio companies are managing fixed operating costs. Our analysis demonstrates that our portfolio companies in the aggregate are well positioned to address fixed charges with operating cash flows and available balance sheet liquidity.

我們也繼續密切關注我們的投資組合公司如何管理固定營運成本。我們的分析表明，我們的投資組合公司總體上處於有利地位，可以透過營運現金流量和可用資產負債表流動性來解決固定費用。

As expected, we saw a modest decrease in the aggregate of all utilization during the second quarter with approximately 57% of aggregate vulnerable capacity available across the portfolio at a quarter end, which is sufficient in our view. It is worth noting that we have seen an increase in repricing requests given tight spreads. Our approach to repricing is that a portfolio company ought to have demonstrated improvement in creditworthiness since underwrite through growth and deleveraging in order to reward or repricing.

正如預期的那樣，我們看到第二季度所有利用率的總量略有下降，季度末整個投資組合中可用的脆弱產能總量約為 57%，我們認為這已經足夠了。值得注意的是，由於價差較小，我們發現重新定價請求增加。我們的重新定價方法是，投資組合公司自承保以來應該透過成長和去槓桿化來證明其信用度有所改善，以便獲得獎勵或重新定價。

The strength of our portfolio continues to benefit from the substantial amount of equity invested in our companies. Most of it is applied by large and well as private equity firms with whom we have long-standing relationships and have partnered with in multiple transactions. And we note that the weighted average loan to value in the portfolio at the time underwrite is approximately 40%.

我們投資組合的實力繼續受益於對我們公司的大量股權投資。其中大部分是由大型私募股權公司應用的，我們與這些公司有著長期的合作關係，並在多項交易中進行了合作。我們注意到，承保時投資組合中的加權平均貸款價值約為 40%。

With that, I will now turn it over to Gerhard.

現在，我將把它交給格哈德。

Thanks, Henry, and hello, everyone. Our net investment income per share of $0.59 for the second quarter of 2024 compared to $0.63 per share for the prior quarter and $0.56 per share for the second quarter of 2023.

謝謝亨利，大家好。我們 2024 年第二季的每股淨投資收益為 0.59 美元，而上一季的每股淨投資收益為 0.63 美元，2023 年第二季的每股淨投資收益為 0.56 美元。

Total investment income of $49 million for the second quarter compares to $50.4 million for the prior quarter. The primary driver of this decrease relates to what we classify as nonrecurring investment income. Consisting of accelerated amortization, fee income, and common stock dividends, nonrecurring income of $1.8 million decreased quarter over quarter from $2.6 million.

第二季總投資收入為 4,900 萬美元，上一季為 5,040 萬美元。這種下降的主要驅動因素與我們歸類為非經常性投資收入有關。非經常性收入包括加速攤銷、費用收入和普通股股息，從 260 萬美元季減 180 萬美元。

As noted on last quarter's call, while we expect some level of nonrecurring or transactional investment income every quarter, our nonrecurring investment income last quarter, driven primarily by two large realizations and an increase in structuring fees for a new platform investment was meaningfully higher than in previous quarters.

正如上個季度的電話會議所指出的，雖然我們預計每季都會出現一定程度的非經常性或交易性投資收入，但我們上個季度的非經常性投資收入主要由兩項大額變現和新平台投資的結構費用增加推動，明顯高於上一季的水平。

Importantly, our recurring yield related income continues to represent the lion's share of total investment income, contributing over 95% of this quarter's total income, consistent with prior quarters.

重要的是，我們的經常性收益相關收入繼續佔總投資收入的最大份額，佔本季總收入的 95% 以上，與前幾季一致。

PIK income continues to represent a modest portion of our revenue at 4% of total investment income, which compares favorably to the BDC peer group. We remain highly focused level of PIK income, particularly in this environment and believe that this will be a differentiator for BDC performance in the coming years.

PIK 收入繼續占我們收入的一小部分，佔總投資收入的 4%，這與 BDC 同行相比是有利的。我們仍然高度關注 PIK 收入水平，尤其是在這種環境下，並相信這將成為未來幾年 BDC 業績的差異化因素。

Our GAAP earnings per share or net income for the second quarter of 2024 was $0.55. This was primarily the result of net investment income outpacing the regular and supplemental dividend offset by $0.07 per share of net unrealized and realized losses. As of June 30, our stockholders' equity was $752 million, up modestly from the prior quarter, resulting in net asset dollar share of $20.30.

我們 2024 年第二季的 GAAP 每股盈餘或淨利為 0.55 美元。這主要是由於淨投資收入超過了定期和補充股息，抵消了每股 0.07 美元的未實現和已實現淨虧損。截至 6 月 30 日，我們的股東權益為 7.52 億美元，比上一季小幅成長，淨資產美元份額為 20.30 美元。

Now, let's shift to our utilization and liquidity. I'm on Slide 19. As I noted in June at our Analyst Day, in terms of our leverage strategy, we have generally prioritized measured growth and have historically operated at a relatively conservative debt-to-equity ratio. This quarter's investment activity brought our debt-to-equity ratio up to 1.18 times from 1.11 times in the prior quarter. This quarter's increase puts us closer to the midpoint of our stated leverage range of 1.1 times to 1.3 times.

現在，讓我們轉向我們的利用率和流動性。我在投影片 19 上。正如我在 6 月分析師日指出的那樣，就我們的槓桿策略而言，我們通常優先考慮可衡量的成長，並且歷來以相對保守的債務股本比率運作。本季的投資活動使我們的債務股本比從上一季的 1.11 倍上升至 1.18 倍。本季的成長使我們更接近我們規定的槓桿範圍 1.1 倍至 1.3 倍的中點。

With $294 million of undrawn capacity, subject to leverage, borrowing base and other restrictions and $36 million in cash and cash equivalents as of quarter end, we have sufficient liquidity to fund further investment activity while maintaining a debt-to-equity ratio that we are comfortable operating at.

截至季末，我們的未動用產能為2.94 億美元，但受到槓桿、借款基礎和其他限制的影響，現金和現金等價物為3,600 萬美元，我們有足夠的流動性為進一步的投資活動提供資金，同時維持我們目前的債務股本比率。

The weighted average weighted interest rate on the total borrowings was 6.91% as of quarter end. And as we've highlighted on the right-hand side of the slide, there are no debt maturities until 2026. One additional item I'd like to highlight here relates to our SPV asset facility. In May, we tightened the spread by 30 basis points to SOFR plus 2.45% and extended the maturity from March 2028 to May 2029.

截至季末，總借款的加權平均加權利率為6.91%。正如我們在幻燈片右側所強調的那樣，2026 年之前沒有債務到期。我想在此強調的另一項與我們的 SPV 資產設施有關。5月份，我們將利差收緊30個基點至SOFR加2.45%，並將期限從2028年3月延長至2029年5月。

As Jason mentioned, for the third quarter of 2024, our Board has declared our recently increased regular dividend of $0.42 per share, which we believe we are well positioned to cover over the longer term. We also plan to continue to declare and pay quarterly supplemental dividends pursuant to the current calculation to provide further distributions to stockholders.

正如 Jason 所提到的，我們的董事會已宣布將 2024 年第三季的定期股息提高至每股 0.42 美元，我們相信從長遠來看，我們有能力支付這筆股息。我們還計劃繼續按照目前的計算方式宣派和支付季度補充股息，以向股東提供進一步的分配。

And with that, I'd like to turn it back to Jason for closing remarks.

說到這裡，我想請傑森做結束語。

Thanks, Gerhard. In closing, we are pleased with this quarter's financial results and the performance of our investment portfolio. We've continued to maintain a defensively positioned portfolio that delivers a stable net profile with consistent dividend coverage.

謝謝，格哈德。最後，我們對本季的財務表現和投資組合的表現感到滿意。我們持續維持防禦性投資組合，提供穩定的淨資產和一致的股利覆蓋率。

At our Analyst and Investor Day in June, one thing we hope everyone left with was that CCAP benefits from its affiliation with Crescent, a proven cycle-tested manager. As credit investors, Crescent's approach to investment selection has remained consistent and disciplined for over three decades, and we believe this level of experience will serve as a point of real differentiation for CCAP in less benign credit environments.

在六月的分析師和投資者日上，我們希望每個人都留下的一件事是，CCAP 受益於與 Crescent 的合作，Crescent 是一家久經考驗的周期管理公司。作為信貸投資者，Crescent 的投資選擇方法三十多年來一直保持一致和嚴格，我們相信這種經驗水平將成為 CCAP 在不太良性的信貸環境中真正的差異化點。

Even though the private credit landscape continues to rapidly evolve, we want to assure our shareholders that our investment approach remains disciplined and consistent. As we look forward over the remainder of 2024, we remain confident in the continued strong performance of CCAP's portfolio, and believe we are on track to continue to deliver attractive risk-adjusted returns to our stockholders.

儘管私人信貸格局持續快速發展，我們仍希望向股東保證，我們的投資方法保持紀律性和一致性。展望 2024 年剩餘時間，我們對 CCAP 投資組合的持續強勁表現仍然充滿信心，並相信我們有望繼續為股東提供有吸引力的風險調整回報。

And with that, we can open the line for questions.

這樣，我們就可以打開提問專線了。

(Operator Instructions) Lee Cooperman, Omega Family Office.

（操作員指示）Lee Cooperman，歐米茄家族辦公室。

Two questions where I need a little help. All these calls I listened to, everybody says, interest rates are very high. What is the evidence that interest rates are very high? They're higher than they've been, but the stock markets that are record high. If you take the unweighted averages, the market is at a record high. There's speculation going on in the market.

我需要一點幫助的兩個問題。我聽到的所有這些電話，每個人都說，利率非常高。有什麼證據顯示利率非常高？它們比以往任何時候都高，但股市卻創歷史新高。如果採用未加權平均值，市場正處於歷史新高。市場上有各種猜測。

Prior to 2008, the 10-year government bond yield in line with nominal GDP, so, if you take 2% to 3% inflation, 2% to 3% real growth, the tenure wouldn't be undervalued or at 4% to 6% yield. So what is the evidence that interest rates are too high? That's number one. And then I have a second question.

2008年以前，10年期公債殖利率與名目GDP一致，因此，若考慮2%至3%的通膨率、2%至3%的實質成長，期限不會被低估，或在4%至6% ％ 屈服。那麼，有什麼證據顯示利率過高呢？這是第一名。然後我還有第二個問題。

Hey, Lee. Thanks for joining. Thanks for the question. I think we would agree with you. I think we would say that interest rates are high on a -- looking back at the last, let's say, 10 years, they're high. But if you go back historically over a longer period of time, I wouldn't call them necessarily high today.

嘿，李。感謝您的加入。謝謝你的提問。我想我們會同意你的看法。我認為我們會說利率很高——回顧過去，比如說，十年，利率很高。但如果你回顧更長一段時間的歷史，我今天並不認為它們一定很高。

Secondly, Wall Street has created a lot of companies in the BDC space or IT space that only make sense when stacked over the premium to NAV because the game was sell stock, buy assets, raise the dividend, you sell stock by adds raise the dividend. And once the stocks go to a discount to NAV, it's game over.

其次，華爾街在BDC 領域或IT 領域創建了許多公司，這些公司只有在高於資產淨值的溢價時才有意義，因為遊戲是出售股票、購買資產、提高股息，你透過增加股票來提高股息來出售股票。一旦股票的淨值折價，遊戲就結束了。

And you want to be with the guys that are smart enough to understand that the game has changed and are willing to engage in capital management. So with our stocks below book value, do you guys have a plan to return capital via repurchase? Or is this something that you don't consider?

你希望與那些足夠聰明、了解遊戲規則已經改變並願意從事資本管理的人在一起。那麼，在我們的股票低於帳面價值的情況下，你們有計劃透過回購來回籠資金嗎？或者這是你沒有考慮到的事情？

Yes. Lee, thanks again. It's Jason. This is something that we evaluate, and we will continue to evaluate. As of today, the asset yields that we're getting are still compelling with leverage, even more compelling. That said, I think that's something that we're going to continue to be mindful of as we look at our stock price, and we look at where the rate environment has going forward because we obviously need to evaluate both of those measures.

是的。李老師，再次感謝。是傑森。這是我們正在評估的事情，我們將繼續評估。截至今天，我們獲得的資產收益率在槓桿作用下仍然很有吸引力，甚至更有吸引力。也就是說，我認為在我們審視我們的股價和利率環境的未來發展時，我們將繼續關注這一點，因為我們顯然需要評估這兩個指標。

We also have to take into consideration on buybacks to make sure to balance that with the benefits of having scale in the space just given the fixed charges that are associated with managing a registered vehicle. And then, the last point is where our leverage is at. So today, for instance, we're basically on top of our leverage, a buyback would be a leveraging transaction. But it is something if we are to do it, I think we would make sure to manage that within our target leverage.

我們還必須考慮回購，以確保在考慮到與管理註冊車輛相關的固定費用的情況下，在空間規模化帶來的好處之間取得平衡。然後，最後一點就是我們的槓桿所在。例如，今天，我們基本上處於槓桿之上，回購將是槓桿交易。但如果我們要這麼做，我想我們會確保在我們的目標槓桿範圍內管理它。

Robert Dodd, Raymond James.

羅伯特·多德，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Looking at the liability slide, the balance sheet. Can you give us any color on the plans? I mean as it stands right now, you've got about 60% of your debt stack maturing in an eight-month in 2026. And the SMBC facility gives an amortization or from that -- so I mean it's pretty crowded in that window. It's a couple of years from now. But can you give us any thoughts on what you would expect to do to maybe ladder it out more over the period that you still have available to manage that?

查看負債表和資產負債表。你能告訴我們計劃的任何顏色嗎？我的意思是，就目前情況而言，大約 60% 的債務將在 2026 年的八個月內到期。SMBC 設施提供攤銷或由此而來 - 所以我的意思是它在那個窗口非常擁擠。距離現在已經是幾年後的事了。但是，您能否告訴我們您希望採取哪些措施，以便在您仍然可以管理的時間內逐步實現這一目標？

Yes. Robert, it's Gerhard. Thanks for the question. It's a good question. We certainly feel good about our cost of capital today. Those unsecured debts, as you know, have kind of a low fixed coupon relative to what it was today. So, that's very attractive. We are not in a rush to refinance those notes immediately.

是的。羅伯特，我是格哈德。謝謝你的提問。這是一個好問題。我們當然對今天的資本成本感到滿意。如您所知，這些無擔保債務的固定息票相對於今天較低。所以，這非常有吸引力。我們並不急於立即為這些票據再融資。

As you saw from the 8-K on our SPV facility and the prepared comments we made a few minutes ago, we are actively looking at our capital structure and taking advantage opportunistically of opportunities to kind of manage that and optimize the capital structure. But as you might imagine, we are in constant dialogue with the market and with our lenders. And so, you should expect that we will take action on those notes as well in -- maturity.

正如您從我們 SPV 設施的 8-K 以及我們幾分鐘前準備的評論中看到的那樣，我們正在積極研究我們的資本結構，並伺機利用機會來管理資本結構並優化資本結構。但正如您可能想像的那樣，我們一直在與市場和貸方進行對話。因此，您應該期望我們也會在成熟時對這些票據採取行動。

And to comment about laddering, I think that does make a lot of sense. I don't think we necessarily like the idea of having a large bullet maturity on our unsecured debt. And so, I think we like the idea of laddering that. So, you are in the market all the time, you are diversifying a way that refinancing risk that you would have otherwise if you had a kind of a larger single maturity on your unsecured capital.

對於階梯的評論，我認為這確實很有意義。我認為我們不一定喜歡無擔保債務有較長期限的想法。所以，我認為我們喜歡階梯式的想法。因此，你一直在市場上，你正在分散再融資風險，如果你的無擔保資本有更大的單一期限，那麼你就會面臨這樣的風險。

Got it. I appreciate that. On the heavy covers -- about the portfolio aggregate liquidity 57th revolver capacity is available, which sounds very good. Are you seeing any shifts on the margin, because obviously, the aggregate, I'd expect the aggregate portfolio companies would be doing pretty well.

知道了。我很欣賞這一點。在沉重的封面上——關於投資組合總流動性，第 57 支左輪手槍容量可用，這聽起來非常好。您是否看到了利潤率方面的任何變化，因為顯然，總體而言，我預計總體投資組合公司的表現會相當不錯。

But have there been any shifts at the margin. It doesn't look like it from your into ratings, right? But anything that you're monitoring at when you set the monitoring at an increased rate, given how relatively high rates have been for the prolonged period and the liquidity that has been consumed on the plus side for shareholders by those rates and higher cost of funding from portfolio companies.

但邊緣是否有任何變化？從你的收視率來看，這看起來不像，對吧？但是，當您將監控設定為更高的利率時，考慮到長期以來相對較高的利率以及這些利率和較高的融資成本為股東帶來的流動性消耗，您所監控的任何內容來自投資組合公司。

Yeah. This is Henry. I can comment on that. I would say that there's certainly on the margin, we're focused on as indicated by our watch list, which represents just around 10% of our overall portfolio.

是的。這是亨利。我可以對此發表評論。我想說的是，正如我們的觀察名單所示，我們重點關注的肯定是邊際利潤，該名單僅占我們整體投資組合的 10% 左右。

Within the watch list, I'd say that liquidity is -- as we sit here today, liquidity needs are really concentrated in less than a handful of portfolio companies that we're highly focused on. And these are companies where -- it's not necessarily just a rate issue. There is some operating performance, near-term challenges that those companies are working through that coupled with the higher fixed charges that are looking from the current rate environment are creating some needs for liquidity.

在觀察名單中，我想說的是，流動性是——當我們今天坐在這裡時，流動性需求實際上集中在我們高度關注的少數投資組合公司中。這些公司的問題不一定只是利率問題。這些公司正在努力解決一些經營業績、近期挑戰，再加上從當前利率環境來看較高的固定費用，這些都產生了一些流動性需求。

I'd say that -- given that 99% of workflow constantly sponsor backed, we look to the sponsors to solve those liquidity needs to the extent that outside capital is needed. But to your comments, if you were to look at it on an aggregate basis, we're not seeing any heightened revolver utilization, which is something we track real time given that we are typically the revolver lenders in these transactions as well. It's really going to be on the margin, as you said, and really a subset of our watch list.

我想說的是，鑑於 99% 的工作流程不斷得到贊助商的支持，我們希望贊助商能夠在需要外部資本的情況下解決這些流動性需求。但根據您的評論，如果您從總體上看，我們沒有看到任何左輪手槍利用率的提高，這是我們即時追蹤的內容，因為我們通常也是這些交易中的左輪手槍貸方。正如你所說，它確實處於邊緣地位，而且確實是我們觀察名單的子集。

I appreciate that. And the sponsor to the point of the change of comments at the beginning as well. sponsored to different parts of the market appear to be acting definitely. Are you seeing those sponsors step up. I mean, certainly, in some of the large mega deals we have clearly? Are you seeing the sponsors continue to step up to provide liquidity where needed in your segment of the market?

我很欣賞這一點。贊助商也從一開始就改變了評論。贊助市場的不同部分似乎表現明確。你看到那些贊助商站出來了嗎？我的意思是，當然，在我們進行的一些大型交易中？您是否看到贊助商繼續在您的細分市場需要的地方提供流動性？

Yeah. The short answer is we absolutely are. And it really comes down to the assessment of the constituents within capital structure of whether the issue that the Company is facing is really a secular or a longer-term fundamental issue or something that's short term that can be bridged with some amount of equity capital.

是的。簡短的回答是我們絕對是。這實際上取決於對資本結構內各組成部分的評估，即公司面臨的問題是否確實是長期的或長期的根本性問題，還是可以透過一定數量的股本資本來解決的短期問題。

And I think we've certainly been fortunate within our portfolio, and I think this is really given our investment approach and our underwriting process to be in situations where any liquidity needs that we have seen in the situation that we have seen that have been really short-term needs in nature.

我認為我們的投資組合確實很幸運，而且我認為這確實是因為我們的投資方法和承銷流程處於我們所看到的任何流動性需求的情況下，我們已經看到了真正的流動性需求。是短期需求。

And that allow the sponsor to be able to be comfortable putting in capital beneath us in a position where they feel like they'll get a return on that capital and also for us to credibly come to a view that all that's needed within that respective situation. So I'd say that certainly in the situations where we've seen sponsors need to step up. We've seen them continue to do so.

這使得贊助商能夠放心地向我們投入資本，讓他們覺得自己會獲得資本回報，同時我們也能夠可靠地認為，在各自的情況下所需要的一切。所以我想說，在我們看到贊助商需要挺身而出的情況下，當然就是這樣。我們看到他們繼續這樣做。

Paul Johnson, KBW.

保羅·約翰遜，KBW。

So I just wanted to ask a question on the PIK income statistics you gave at 4%. I just wondering if you can kind of talk to why that is so much lower than the average kind of BDC PIK -- across the space. The average leverage of 5.5x. We would expect in this environment that might be higher, but it's just simply because there's less of borrowers in the portfolio that have this option available, or is less being utilized at the moment, but any color there would be helpful.

所以我只是想問一個關於你給出的4%的PIK收入統計的問題。我只是想知道您是否可以談談為什麼它比整個空間的平均 BDC PIK 低得多。平均槓桿為5.5倍。我們預計在這種環境下，這個數字可能會更高，但這只是因為投資組合中可用此選項的借款人較少，或者目前使用較少，但任何顏色都會有幫助。

Hi, Paul. It's Jason. Thanks for the question. Let me take a stab at that and Henry feel free to chime in if you've got additional thoughts. A little bit of this is speculation around maybe why we're lower than our peers.

嗨，保羅。是傑森。謝謝你的提問。讓我來嘗試一下，如果您有其他想法，亨利可以隨時插話。這其中有一點是關於我們為何低於同行的猜測。

I can certainly comment on why we're low, which is we are and have been since inception, very focused on earning cash the top line since we're distributing cash at the bottom line. And so, we have a high degree of sensitivity to PIK toggle options, for instance, in deals at underwrite. I can't say that we don't do them, but we do them very selectively in terms of deals and underwrite that have a PIK option.

我當然可以評論為什麼我們的業績低，這就是我們自成立以來一直非常專注於賺取現金，因為我們在底線分配現金。因此，我們對 PIK 切換選項非常敏感，例如在核保交易中。我不能說我們不這樣做，但我們在具有 PIK 選項的交易和承保方面非常有選擇性地這樣做。

That probably falls in contrast to some of our peers who do more of that. ARR loans, for instance, oftentimes have a PIK feature because they don't necessarily generate profitability as they're investing in their business. And so, ARR loans are not an area of focus for Crescent really never have been.

這可能與我們一些做得更多的同行形成鮮明對比。例如，ARR 貸款通常具有 PIK 功能，因為它們在投資業務時不一定會產生利潤。因此，ARR 貸款並不是 Crescent 真正關注的領域。

Secondarily, I would say the other way you find PIK in portfolios is when you've got amendment or workout activity. And I would say, we certainly have some of those situations contained within our watch list. Oftentimes, as Henry mentioned, when sponsors are wanting to write a check to support a business, they're also looking for concessions from lenders.

其次，我想說，您在投資組合中找到 PIK 的另一種方式是當您進行修改或鍛鍊活動時。我想說，我們的觀察名單中肯定包含其中一些情況。正如亨利所提到的，當贊助商想要寫一張支票來支持一家企業時，他們常常會尋求貸款人的讓步。

The top asks these days is cash interest burden relief in the form of PIK. So that's the other way that you would come into portfolios. And I would say we do our darnest on those types of situations to make sure that if we are picking, we are getting real value from ownership as well to compensate for that concession that we're making.

這些天最高要求是以 PIK 的形式減輕現金利息負擔。這就是你進入投資組合的另一種方式。我想說，我們會在這些類型的情況下盡最大努力，以確保如果我們選擇的話，我們也能從所有權中獲得真正的價值，並補償我們所做的讓步。

And as you know, we try to be extremely selective in terms of the credits that we choose to put in our portfolio. So my hope is that over the long term, you won't see that as a material part of our portfolio at any time.

如您所知，我們在選擇放入投資組合中的信用方面非常有選擇性。因此，我希望從長遠來看，您在任何時候都不會將其視為我們投資組合的重要組成部分。

Yes. The other thing I'll comment on there, Jason already touched on ARR loans by -- during that of '21, early '22 vintage. A lot of, or I shouldn't say a lot, but a steel structure that was fairly popular was a unique PIK preferred structure where sponsors were looking to be able to stretch leverage without overburdening from a cash interest perspective, to be able to pay those top decile multiple that needed -- that were needed to prevail in auctions.

是的。我要評論的另一件事是，Jason 已經在 21 年、22 年初談到了 ARR 貸款。很多，或者我不應該說很多，但是相當受歡迎的鋼結構是一種獨特的 PIK 首選結構，贊助商希望能夠在不造成現金利息負擔過重的情況下擴大槓桿率，以便能夠支付那些需要在拍賣中佔上風的最高十分位數倍數。

That was something that I think, especially the pay-preferred piece, we just shied away from given our focus since the inception of CCAP to stay away and minimize PIK income as much as we can on the front end. So that's, I think, certainly something that you'll see as a minority in our profile relative to some of the other peers that are out there.

我認為，鑑於自 CCAP 成立以來我們的重點是遠離並儘可能減少前端的 PIK 收入，我們只是迴避了這一點，尤其是付費優先的部分。因此，我認為，相對於其他一些同行，您肯定會在我們的資料中將其視為少數。

And I think the last point I'll make is that if you were to ask us two years ago, I think we would have seen more PIK amendment as than we've seen now. But the other side of the coin, I think has been a positive surprise is that the business fundamentals have just been quite strong. Revenue and EBITDA growth on an aggregate basis continued.

我想我要說的最後一點是，如果你在兩年前問我們，我想我們會看到比現在更多的 PIK 修正案。但硬幣的另一面，我認為令人驚訝的是，業務基本面相當強勁。總體收入和 EBITDA 繼續成長。

We've seen both of top-line and bottom-line growth across the book. And as a result, while certainly borrowers are contending with higher fixed charges, the numerator of that has grown to be able to address that. So that's been, I'd say, certainly a positive development that's helped ameliorate. What we would have thought several quarters ago would have been a much more robust environment for PIK requests.

我們在書中看到了營收和利潤的成長。因此，雖然借款人肯定會面臨更高的固定費用，但分子已經能夠解決這個問題。所以我想說，這無疑是一個積極的進展，有助於改善情況。幾個季度前，我們以為 PIK 請求的環境會更強大。

That's great color. And then on the new activity, $190 million in the quarter, I know it looks like there was about six new deals in there. What was kind of the mix of just the repricing activity that you mentioned and then the new deals within that and then as well as just kind of the pipeline overall?

那顏色真棒。然後就新活動而言，本季 1.9 億美元，我知道看起來大約有六筆新交易。您提到的重新定價活動以及其中的新交易以及整體管道的組合是什麼樣的？

Let us -- Henry is pulling that up here. While he does, Paul, I think I can comment just broadly on the market, we're certainly seeing a pickup in general activity. I think first half middle market loan volume was up 20% relative to the second half of last year. Albeit, most of it driven by refinancings. I think LBOs represented about a third of volume in the second quarter. So still lighter than where we wanted to get to, and we expect it to get to that said, still a meaningful increase over Q1. I think a 70%-plus increase over Q1 LBO activity.

讓我們——亨利正在把它拉到這裡。保羅，雖然他這樣做了，但我想我可以對市場進行廣泛的評論，我們肯定會看到整體活動有所回升。我認為上半年中間市場貸款量比去年下半年成長了 20%。儘管如此，其中大部分是由再融資推動的。我認為槓桿收購約佔第二季交易量的三分之一。因此，仍然比我們想要達到的目標輕，我們預計它會達到上述目標，與第一季相比仍然是有意義的成長。我認為槓桿收購活動比第一季增加了 70% 以上。

Yes. And to follow back up on the first part of your question, six new platforms totaling $62 million, and then we had 13 add-ons to $33 million and then the remainder were fundings on our existing unfunded commitment DBTLs and revolvers. The new platform that you referenced those are new LBOs versus repricing.

是的。為了跟進你的問題的第一部分，六個新平台總計 6200 萬美元，然後我們有 13 個附加項目，總計 3300 萬美元，其餘的是我們現有的無資金承諾 DBTL 和左輪手槍的資金。您提到的新平台是新的槓桿收購與重新定價。

And then last question. I was just wondering if you can give kind of an update on the performance of the Logan JV and where that's at. It looks like that was written down a little bit this quarter, but just a status update there would be helpful.

然後是最後一個問題。我只是想知道您是否可以提供有關洛根合資企業的績效及其所在位置的最新資訊。看起來這個季度已經寫下了一些內容，但只要更新狀態就會有幫助。

Yes. So, the JV, just as a reminder, the largest investment in the JV is a middle market CLO. And as a result, you'll see that fair value kind of move on a quarter-to-quarter basis based on the mark-to-market of the underlying all the cores within that CLO. In terms of the performance of the JV as a whole, we're very focused on assessing the distribution that we're receiving from that CLO and the loans within relative to our projections. And I'd say that they've been in line since we've onboarded the asset.

是的。因此，合資企業，提醒一下，合資企業最大的投資是中間市場的 CLO。因此，您會看到公允價值根據該 CLO 中所有基礎核心的以市價計算，按季度變動。就合資企業的整體表現而言，我們非常注重評估我們從 CLO 收到的分配以及相對於我們的預測的貸款。我想說，自從我們啟用該資產以來，他們就一直在排隊。

One thing to note with loan JV is that, that CLO that's in the JV, the reinvestment period is coming up, it's going to expire in August of next year -- or sorry, not August, April of next year.

關於貸款合資公司需要注意的一點是，合資公司中的CLO，再投資期即將到來，它將在明年8月到期——或者抱歉，不是明年8月、4月到期。

So right now, the base case here, the thought around that is that once that invested period lapses, the portfolio will monetize here, but that's something that we're evaluating real time as you kind of think about the next steps with respect to that vehicle. But I'd say performance-wise, it's kind of been in line with the cash flow expectations that we've been expecting to receive from that vehicle.

所以現在，這裡的基本情況，圍繞這一點的想法是，一旦投資期結束，投資組合將在這裡貨幣化，但這是我們正在實時評估的事情，因為你會考慮接下來的步驟車輛。但我想說，就性能而言，這與我們一直期望從該車輛獲得的現金流預期相符。

Finian O'Shea, Wells Fargo.

菲尼安‧奧謝，富國銀行。

I wanted to go back to the debt side discussion. It sounded like there'll be emphasis on or perhaps more of a latter seeing what that might look like, if we'll have even more and smaller pieces that would thereby presumably be more expensive or if you think that you'll be able to do this and keep that cost down or perhaps reduce them?

我想回到債務方面的討論。聽起來，如果我們有更多、更小的零件，那麼可能會更昂貴，或者如果你認為你能夠這樣做並降低成本或減少成本？

Hey, Fin, this is Gerhard. Yes, it's a good question. We have three tranches of under notes right now maturing in Feb, May and July of 2026. We do not see -- and those are all issues through the private placement channel. We're evaluating both private placement and DCM options. But we don't see debt costs necessarily pick up due to size, we'll make sure that we size those issuances appropriately to get best execution in the market.

嘿，芬，這是格哈德。是的，這是一個好問題。我們目前有三批票據將於 2026 年 2 月、5 月和 7 月到期。我們沒有看到──這些都是透過私募管道出現的問題。我們正在評估私募和 DCM 選項。但我們認為債務成本不一定會因規模而上升，我們將確保適當調整這些發行規模，以獲得市場上的最佳執行力。

I think it is fair to say, just given that those notes currently are priced at 4%, 5% and 7.5%, that they'll probably price up a little bit given if you look at the spread environment today. But other than that kind of price to market effect that we expect, we will make sure we size those tranches appropriate.

我認為可以公平地說，考慮到這些票據目前的定價為 4%、5% 和 7.5%，如果你看看今天的利差環境，它們的價格可能會略有上漲。但除了我們預期的價格對市場影響之外，我們將確保適當調整這些部分的規模。

Fin, thanks for the question, Jason, too. I just wanted to add that I think as we continue to look at the market and we want to be very opportunistic about when we penetrate the market, but we will also be looking at swapping as well just given the environment that consensus seems to think we're in today.

芬，傑森，也謝謝你的提問。我只是想補充一點，我認為當我們繼續關注市場時，我們希望在滲透市場時非常機會主義，但考慮到共識似乎認為我們的環境，我們也會考慮交換。

Okay. That's helpful. And for a follow-up, Jason, to your opening commentary on sticking with the lower middle market. To what extent do you see the larger players moving into that territory? And what's the sort of level of competition that brings?

好的。這很有幫助。傑森，接下來是您關於堅持中低端市場的開場評論。您認為較大的參與者會在多大程度上進入該領域？這會帶來什麼樣的競爭水平？

Yeah. Thanks, Fin. I think -- so we -- everybody has their own definition of middle market, but just for, as a reminder, we deem the lower mid-market roughly $10 million to about $35 million, $40 million of [EBITDA], and then, we call the core middle market, say, to $40 million to $150 million or so. That's really -- those are the two areas of focus for CCAP.

是的。謝謝，芬。我認為——所以我們——每個人對中端市場都有自己的定義，但只是提醒一下，我們認為中低端市場大約為1000 萬美元到3500 萬美元，[EBITDA] 為4000 萬美元，然後，比如說，我們將核心中間市場稱為 4,000 萬至 1.5 億美元左右。這確實是 CCAP 關注的兩個領域。

I would say competition from folks who are generally going after the upper middle market has not been all that meaningful in the lower mid-market. I think it's a different market focus. It's a different sponsor focus generally than the upper middle market players.

我想說的是，來自那些通常追求中高端市場的人的競爭在中低端市場並不那麼有意義。我認為這是一個不同的市場焦點。與中高端市場參與者相比，贊助商的關注點通常不同。

In addition to that, a lot of the upper middle market deal-making is really getting because of the significant flows coming into the non-traded space. On the retail side, where managers are taking in monthly subscriptions and needing to put that capital to work immediately. So it's certainly beneficial to put larger amounts of capital into each deal.

除此之外，由於大量資金流入非交易領域，許多中高階市場的交易確實在進行。在零售方面，經理們每月收取訂閱費用，並需要立即將這些資金投入使用。因此，在每筆交易中投入更多資金肯定是有利的。

In the core, I would say it's -- we do see some of the upper mid-market players dip down into the core at times. And these are folks that have been in the core middle market as well. So folks that we partnered with before, we've competed before. So, there is some level of activity from the folks that do the mega tranche deals as well, dipping down into the core at times.

在核心領域，我想說的是——我們確實看到一些中高端市場參與者有時會深入核心領域。這些人也一直處於核心中間市場。所以我們以前有合作過的人，我們以前參加過比賽。因此，進行大型交易的人們也會進行一定程度的活動，有時會深入到核心領域。

Derek Hewett, Bank of America.

德里克·休伊特，美國銀行。

Focusing on slide 13. What's driving that 71% of the portfolio as financial covenants? I would have expected the percentage to be a little bit higher just given the focus on the lower end core middle market.

重點關注幻燈片 13。是什麼推動了 71% 的投資組合成為財務契約？考慮到對低端核心中端市場的關注，我預計這一比例會更高一些。

Sorry, Derek, you said slide 13. Can you repeat the question?

抱歉，德瑞克，你說的是幻燈片 13。你能重複一下這個問題嗎？

Yeah. I was -- what's driving the 71% of the portfolio that has financial covenants? Just given the focus on the lower and core middle market, I would expect that, that number to be higher. So does that have to do with any sort of legacy investments from First Eagle or is there something else driving that number?

是的。我當時想，是什麼推動了 71% 的投資組合製定了財務契約？考慮到對中低階市場和核心中端市場的關注，我預計這個數字會更高。那麼，這是否與 First Eagle 的任何遺留投資有關，或者是否有其他因素推動了這一數字？

No, I think it's -- and this is Henry speaking, Derek. It's really a function of the segmentation of the two different markets. So, when you think about how we define lower middle market with $35 million of EBITDA and below. All of those deals or I should say virtually all those deals are going to have at least one maintenance covenant.

不，我認為是──這是亨利，德瑞克。這其實是兩個不同市場區隔的函數。因此，當您思考我們如何定義 EBITDA 及以下 3500 萬美元的中低階市場。所有這些交易，或者我應該說幾乎所有這些交易都將至少有一項維護契約。

In the core middle market, keep in mind how we define that, that's a much larger band, that's $35 million to $200 million in EBITDA. So when you get to the upper end of that size spectrum, you do see situations where you do not have a maintenance covenant. So as a result, that's why you're seeing that mix. It's a function of the two different markets where we focus.

在核心中間市場，請記住我們如何定義它，這是一個更大的範圍，即 EBITDA 3500 萬至 2 億美元。因此，當您達到該規模範圍的上限時，您確實會看到沒有維護契約的情況。因此，這就是你看到這種混合的原因。這是我們關注的兩個不同市場的函數。

I think that one thing that we always do like to point out here is that this is, I'd say, almost a direct inverse of what you're kind of seeing like in the upper middle market with respect to covenants, probably more so nowadays, but that's really a function of just how wide that net band is in terms of company size when you think about the core middle market and what you'll see on the larger issuer side of that spectrum.

我認為我們總是想在這裡指出的一件事是，我想說，這幾乎與您在中高端市場看到的關於契約的情況直接相反，可能更是如此如今，但這實際上取決於公司規模的淨頻寬有多寬，當您考慮核心中間市場以及您將在該範圍的較大發行人方面看到的情況時。

We're also -- I would just add to that with everything Henry said. I would just say that even in the core, Derek, when we don't necessarily have maintenance covenants, we are still highly focused on the documentation and having inflection in place to the fullest extent that we can negotiate around things like baskets and asset dispositions and the like. So while this is representative of true financial covenants, that doesn't mean that then in the core middle market, our documents look like broadly syndicated loan documents.

我們也——我想補充一下亨利所說的一切。我只想說，德里克，即使在核心方面，當我們不一定有維護契約時，我們仍然高度關注文檔，並在最大程度上進行適當的調整，以便我們可以圍繞籃子和資產處置等問題進行談判等等。因此，雖然這代表了真正的財務契約，但這並不意味著在核心中間市場，我們的文件看起來像是廣泛的銀團貸款文件。

Yeah. And I think that's an important point because there certainly can be a tendency to kind of oversell the protection you get with maintenance covenants. We've seen, in certain situations, maintenance covenants are quite wide relative to having some real teeth to them.

是的。我認為這是很重要的一點，因為肯定存在著一種過度推銷透過維護契約所獲得的保護的傾向。我們已經看到，在某些情況下，維護契約相對於有一些真正的約束力是相當廣泛的。

And we covered this during a segment within our Analyst Day presentation. But the key here is really the document as a whole and our ability to ensure that our collateral stays within our credit box and that we're limiting leakage of our collateral and the extent that -- to the extent that a situation may go side-way to the operating performance.

我們在分析師日演講的一個部分中對此進行了介紹。但這裡的關鍵實際上是整個文件，以及我們確保我們的抵押品留在我們的信用箱內的能力，以及我們限制抵押品洩漏的程度，以及在情況可能偏離的範圍內的程度。方式。

So I think this is one barometer and then we really use this to kind of indicate that our deals are not really just variation or a variant of what you're seeing in the public loan market. But I think if you were to kind of dig beneath that, you'll really see that even in deals that are complied, the documentation is not indicative or does not resemble that of what you would see in an upper middle market broadly syndicated loan type construct.

因此，我認為這是一個晴雨表，然後我們實際上用它來表明我們的交易實際上不僅僅是您在公共貸款市場上看到的變化或變體。但我認為，如果你深入挖掘這一點，你真的會發現，即使在合規的交易中，該文件也不是指示性的，或者與你在中高端市場廣泛銀團貸款類型中看到的文件不同構造。

Okay. Thank you for that. And then circling back to PIK, I realize that PIK is well below industry peers. But how would you characterize it? Was the PIK that you have, was that structured into the original deals or was that a result of amendments?

好的。謝謝你。然後回到 PIK，我意識到 PIK 遠低於業界同業。但你會如何描述它呢？您擁有的 PIK 是原始交易中的結構還是修訂的結果？

Yeah. This is Henry. I can respond to that. I'd say the majority of that PIK income is going to be related to -- it was available at origination. So it's I mentioned in my comments to an earlier question here that the volume of PIK amendments that we've seen has actually been quite a bit lighter than we would have initially guessed several quarters ago.

是的。這是亨利。我可以對此做出回應。我想說，PIK 收入的大部分將與它在最初就可獲得的相關。因此，我在對先前問題的評論中提到，我們看到的 PIK 修訂數量實際上比我們幾個季度前最初猜測的要少得多。

So the majority of what you'll see there is going to be related to investments that have a PIK component at origination. And what that will really be more so for investments that are second lien or unsecured which are -- represent a minority of our portfolio.

因此，您將看到的大部分內容都與最初具有 PIK 成分的投資相關。對於第二留置權或無擔保的投資來說，情況更是如此，這些投資在我們的投資組合中只佔少數。

Thank you. And this will conclude our Q&A session as well as our conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may disconnect at any time.

謝謝。我們的問答環節和電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您可以隨時斷開連線。

Thank you all.

謝謝大家。