Crescent Capital BDC Inc (CCAP) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone, and welcome to the third quarter 2024 Crescent Capital BDC, Inc. Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note today's call will be recorded -- it is now my pleasure to turn today's conference over to Dan McMahon.

大家好，歡迎參加 Crescent Capital BDC, Inc. 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的通話將被錄音——現在我很高興將今天的會議交給丹·麥克馬洪。

Good morning, and welcome to Crescent Capital BDC, Inc.'s Third Quarter ended September 30, 2024 Earnings Conference Call. Please note that Crescent Capital BDC may be referred to as CCAP, Crescent BDC or the company throughout the call. Before we begin, I'll start with some important reminders. Comments made over the course of this conference call and webcast may contain forward-looking statements and are subject to risks and uncertainties.

早安，歡迎參加 Crescent Capital BDC, Inc. 截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日第三季財報電話會議。請注意，Crescent Capital BDC 在整個通話過程中可能被稱為 CCAP、Crescent BDC 或公司。在我們開始之前，我先說一些重要的提醒。本次電話會議和網路廣播過程中發表的評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，並受風險和不確定性的影響。

The company's actual results could differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements for any reason, including those listed in its SEC filings. The company assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements. Please also note that past performance or market information is not a guarantee of future results.

本公司的實際結果可能因任何原因（包括本公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中列出的原因）與此類前瞻性陳述中表達的結果有重大差異。該公司不承擔更新任何此類前瞻性陳述的義務。另請注意，過去的表現或市場資訊並不能保證未來的結果。

This morning, before the market opened, the company issued its earnings press release for the third quarter ended September 30, 2024, and posted a presentation to the IR section of its website at www.crescentbdc.com. The presentation should be reviewed in conjunction with the company's Form 10-Q filed this morning with the SEC.

今天早上，在市場開盤之前，該公司發布了截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的第三季收益新聞稿，並在其網站 www.crescentbdc.com 的 IR 部分發布了一份簡報。該簡報應與該公司今早向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-Q 表一起進行審查。

As a reminder, this call is being recorded for replay purposes. Speaking on today's call will be CCAP's Chief Executive Officer, Jason Breaux; President, Henry Chung; and Chief Financial Officer, Gerhard Lombard. With that, I'd now like to turn it over to Jason.

提醒一下，本次通話正在錄音，以便重播。今天的電話會議發言者將是 CCAP 的執行長 Jason Breaux；主席 Henry Chung；和財務長 Gerhard Lombard。說完這些，我現在想把發言權交給傑森。

Thank you, Dan. Hello, everyone, and thank you all for joining us today. I'll start today's call by highlighting our third quarter results, follow that with some thoughts on our investment approach and touch on our portfolio. This morning, we reported another quarter of solid earnings with continued strong credit performance across the portfolio.

謝謝你，丹。大家好，感謝大家今天的參加。我將在今天的電話會議上首先介紹我們第三季度的業績，然後談談我們的投資方法的一些想法，並談談我們的投資組合。今天上午，我們報告了又一個季度的穩健盈利，整個投資組合的信貸表現繼續保持強勁。

Net investment income, or NII, was $0.64 per share, which translates into an annualized NII return on equity of 12.6%. With our earnings again well in excess of the regular dividend, our Board has declared a supplemental dividend for the second quarter of $0.07 per share. When coupled with our previously declared regular dividend of $0.42 per share, this equates to an approximately 10% annualized dividend yield on September 30, 2024 NAV.

淨投資收益（NII）為每股 0.64 美元，相當於年化 NII 股本回報率為 12.6%。由於我們的收益再次遠遠超過正常股息，董事會宣布第二季補充股息為每股 0.07 美元。與我們先前宣布的每股 0.42 美元的定期股息相結合，這相當於 2024 年 9 月 30 日資產淨值的年化股息收益率約為 10%。

Our net asset value decreased $0.10 to $20.20 per share in the quarter, driven primarily by net unrealized marks running through the portfolio. Gerhard will touch on this in more detail. On a year-over-year basis, our NAV per share is up 2.5%.

本季度，我們的淨資產價值下降 0.10 美元至每股 20.20 美元，主要原因是投資組合中的淨未實現利潤。格哈德將會更詳細地談論這一點。與去年同期相比，我們的每股資產淨值上漲了 2.5%。

Let's shift gears and discuss the investment portfolio. Please turn to slides 13 and 14 of the presentation, which highlights certain characteristics of our portfolio. We ended the quarter with approximately $1.6 billion of investments at fair value across a highly diversified portfolio of 183 companies with an average investment size of approximately 0.5% of the total portfolio.

讓我們換個話題，討論一下投資組合。請翻到簡報的第 13 和 14 張投影片，其中重點介紹了我們投資組合的某些特點。截至本季度，我們高度多元化的投資組合由 183 家公司組成，以公允價值計算的投資額約為 16 億美元，平均投資規模約佔總投資組合的 0.5%。

We have deliberately maintained an investment portfolio that consists primarily of first lien loans, collectively representing 90% of the portfolio at fair value at quarter end, unchanged from the prior quarter. We continue to focus our investing efforts on noncyclical industries and remain well diversified across 20 broad industry categorizations.

我們有意維持主要由第一留置權貸款組成的投資組合，按季度末的公允價值計算，這些貸款合計佔投資組合的 90%，與上一季相比沒有變化。我們繼續將投資重點放在非週期性行業，並在 20 大行業類別中保持良好的多元化。

Our investments are almost entirely supported by well-capitalized private equity sponsors with 99% of our debt portfolio in sponsor-backed companies as of quarter end. We have been pleased with the fundamental performance of our portfolio as indicated by our stable performance ratings and nonaccrual levels. Our weighted average portfolio grade of 2.1 remained stable quarter-over-quarter.

我們的投資幾乎完全由資金雄厚的私募股權贊助商支持，截至季度末，我們 99% 的債務投資組合都投資於贊助商支持的公司。我們對我們的投資組合的基本表現感到滿意，這從我們穩定的績效評級和非應計水平就可以看出。我們的加權平均投資組合等級為 2.1，與上一季相比保持穩定。

And on slide 17, you will see that the percentage of risk rated one and two investments, the highest ratings our portfolio companies can receive, accounted for 90% of the portfolio at fair value, up modestly from 89% in the prior quarter.

在第17 頁上，您將看到風險評級一級和二級投資（我們的投資組合公司可以獲得的最高評級）的百分比按公允價值計算佔投資組合的90%，略高於上一季的89%。

As we've seen credit dispersion begin to emerge with certain peers experiencing growing levels of watch list and nonaccrual names, we continue to believe that our tenure in the direct lending space, robust investment process and focus on the core and lower middle market will continue to drive strong credit performance for CCAP.

隨著我們看到信貸分散現象開始出現，某些同行的觀察名單和不計息名單越來越多，我們仍然相信，我們在直接貸款領域的任期、穩健的投資流程以及對核心和中低端市場的關注將持續下去推動 CCAP 實現強勁的信用表現。

We continue to lead the majority of our transactions drive stringent documentation and maintain our underwriting focus on strong cash flow-generating companies. All of this has led to a portfolio today that has nonaccruals well below the industry average. As of quarter end, we had investments in five portfolio companies on nonaccrual status, representing 1.7% and 0.9% of our total debt investments at cost and fair value, respectively.

我們將繼續引導大多數交易遵循嚴格的文件規定，並保持對強勁現金流產生公司的承保重點。所有這些因素使得如今的投資組合的未計利息遠低於行業平均。截至季末，我們對五家投資組合公司擁有非應計投資，以成本和公允價值計算，分別占我們總債務投資的 1.7％ 和 0.9％。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Henry to discuss the market, our Q3 investment activity and the portfolio. Henry?

現在，我想將電話轉給亨利，討論市場、我們第三季的投資活動和投資組合。亨利？

Thanks, Jason. Deal activity continued to pick up in the third quarter, driven by a combination of lower borrowing costs due to spread compression, rate cuts and a strong economy. Most of the activity continued to be driven by refinancings and recapitalizations, which represented almost 50% of overall volume.

謝謝，傑森。受利差壓縮、利率下調和經濟強勁等因素推動，第三季交易活動持續回升。大部分活動繼續由再融資和資本重組推動，佔總量的近 50%。

While we expect fourth quarter deal activity to be relatively steady with Q3, we are anticipating that LBO volumes and overall deal flow will pick up in 2025 as recent and future rate cuts lower borrowing costs, which should continue to increase the momentum in LBO activity that we have seen in recent quarters.

雖然我們預計第四季的交易活動將與第三季相對穩定，但我們預計，隨著近期和未來的降息降低借貸成本，槓桿收購量和整體交易流量將在2025 年回升，這將繼續增加槓桿收購活動的勢頭，我們已經在最近幾個季度看到了這一點。

In addition, the market reaction to the results from the presidential election suggests optimism around increased deal activity, aided in part by the prospect of less regulation. As we have discussed before, we continue to believe direct lending remains the market of choice for our sponsors in the lower and core middle market, given the benefits of our expertise, including speed, certainty of execution and flexibility and the ability to serve as a true partner in developing bespoke capital structures.

此外，市場對總統大選結果的反應表明，市場對交易活動增加持樂觀態度，部分原因是監管減少的前景。正如我們之前所討論的，我們仍然相信直接貸款仍然是我們在中低端市場和核心中端市場的發起人的首選市場，因為我們的專業知識具有優勢，包括速度、執行的確定性和靈活性，以及作為開發客製化資本結構的真正合作夥伴。

Please turn to slide 15, where we highlight our recent activity. Gross deployment in the third quarter totalled $73 million, as you can see on the left-hand side of the page, 97% of which was in first lien investments. During the quarter, we closed six new platform investments totalling $33 million. These new investments were loans to private equity-backed companies with a weighted average spread of approximately 500 basis points.

請翻到第 15 張投影片，我們在此重點介紹我們最近的活動。正如您在頁面左側看到的，第三季的總部署總額為 7,300 萬美元，其中 97% 用於第一留置權投資。本季度，我們完成了六個新平台投資，總額達 3,300 萬美元。這些新投資是向私募股權支持的公司提供的貸款，加權平均利差約為 500 個基點。

We continue to back well-capitalized borrowers with significant equity cushions and the weighted average loan to value of our new investments for the quarter was 32%. The remaining $40 million came from incremental investments in our existing portfolio companies. These have been a strong source of capital deployed on a year-to-date basis compared to prior periods as we have continued to see higher levels of opportunistic refinancing and accretive M&A add-on opportunities within our existing borrower universe.

我們繼續為資本充足的借款人提供大量股權緩衝，本季我們新投資的加權平均貸款價值比為 32%。剩餘的 4000 萬美元來自我們對現有投資組合公司的增量投資。與前幾個時期相比，這些都是年初至今部署的強大資本來源，因為我們在現有借款人範圍內繼續看到更高水準的機會性再融資和增值性併購附加機會。

The $73 million in gross deployment compares to approximately $92 million in aggregate exits, sales, and repayments, resulting in net realizations of approximately $20 million for the quarter. On the realization front, it is also worth noting that in the fourth quarter, we have opportunistically realized an additional eight acquired First Eagle names for total proceeds of approximately $42 million at a modest premium to our cost basis. Inclusive of these names, we have now rotated 46% of our cost basis in the acquired First Eagle BDC.

總部署金額為 7,300 萬美元，而退出、銷售和償還總額約為 9,200 萬美元，導致本季的淨實現金額約為 2,000 萬美元。在實現方面，值得注意的是，在第四季度，我們抓住機會，實現了另外八個 First Eagle 名稱的收購，總收益約為 4200 萬美元，略高於我們的成本基礎。包括這些名稱在內，我們現在已在收購的 First Eagle BDC 中輪換了 46% 的成本基礎。

Turning back to the broader portfolio, -- please flip to slide 16. You can see that the weighted average yield of our income-producing securities at cost came down modestly quarter-over-quarter to 11.6%, primarily due to a reduction in base rates and partially driven by a reduction in weighted average spread with the realization of certain higher-yielding assets.

回顧更廣泛的投資組合，請翻到第 16 張投影片。您可以看到，我們的創收證券的加權平均收益率按成本計算環比小幅下降至 11.6%，這主要是由於基準利率的降低，部分原因是加權平均利差的減少，以及某些高收益資產。

As a reminder, this metric represented by the dark blue line at the top of the chart includes the impact of income-producing equity investments. As of September 30, 97% of our debt investments at fair value were floating rate with a weighted average floor of 80 basis points, which compares to our 66% floating rate liability structure based on debt drawn with no floors.

提醒一下，圖表頂部深藍色線所表示的指標包括了產生收入的股權投資的影響。截至 9 月 30 日，我們以公允價值計算的債務投資中有 97% 是浮動利率，加權平均下限為 80 個基點，而我們的浮動利率負債結構中有 66% 是基於沒有下限的債務。

Overall, our investment portfolio continues to perform well with year-over-year weighted average revenue and EBITDA growth. With that being said, even with the recent interest rate cuts, we have continued to monitor the impact of borrowing costs on our portfolio companies. The weighted average interest coverage of the companies in our investment portfolio at quarter end improved to 1.8 times as compared to 1.7 times for the prior two quarters. As a reminder, this calculation is based on the latest annualized base rates each quarter.

總體而言，我們的投資組合持續表現良好，加權平均收入和 EBITDA 年成長。話雖如此，即使最近利率下調，我們仍在繼續監控借貸成本對我們投資組合公司的影響。本季末，我們投資組合中的公司的加權平均利息覆蓋率從前兩個季度的 1.7 倍提高到 1.8 倍。提醒一下，此計算是基於每季最新的年化基準利率。

All else being equal, we expect that interest coverage will continue to improve with further rate cuts. We also continue to closely monitor how our portfolio companies are managing fixed operating costs.

在其他條件相同的情況下，我們預期隨著進一步降息，利息覆蓋率將持續改善。我們也將繼續密切關注我們的投資組合公司如何管理固定營運成本。

Our analysis demonstrates that our portfolio companies in the aggregate are well positioned to address fixed charges with operating cash flows and available balance sheet liquidity. As expected, we saw another quarter-over-quarter decrease in aggregate revolver utilization with approximately 66% of aggregate revolver capacity available across the portfolio as of quarter end, up from 57% in the prior quarter. It is worth noting that we have continued to see an increase in repricing given tightening spreads.

我們的分析表明，我們投資組合中的公司總體上有能力利用營運現金流和可用的資產負債表流動性來解決固定費用。正如預期的那樣，我們發現循環信貸總利用率再次環比下降，截至季度末，整個投資組合中循環信貸總容量約為 66%，高於上一季的 57%。值得注意的是，由於利差收窄，我們持續看到重新定價的增加。

We approach repricing as a re-underwriting exercise where we evaluate the portfolio company has demonstrated a meaningful improvement in creditworthiness since underwrite through growth and deleveraging and that the proposed repricing presents an attractive relative value to new origination opportunities that we are seeing today.

我們將重新定價視為一種重新承保的做法，我們評估投資組合公司自承保以來通過增長和去槓桿化是否顯示出信用度的顯著改善，以及擬議的重新定價是否為我們今天看到的新發起機會提供了有吸引力的相對價值。

Our portfolio continues to benefit from the substantial amount of equity invested in our companies, most of it supplied by large and well-established private equity firms with whom we have long-standing relationships and have partnered with in multiple transactions. And we know that the weighted average loan-to-value in the portfolio at time of underwrite is approximately 40%. With that, I will now turn it over to Gerhard.

我們的投資組合繼續受益於對我們公司的大量股權投資，其中大部分來自大型且成熟的私募股權公司，我們與這些公司有著長期的合作關係並在多項交易中建立了合作夥伴關係。我們知道，承保時投資組合的加權平均貸款價值比約為 40%。現在我將把發言權交給 Gerhard。

Thanks, Henry, and hello, everyone. Our net investment income per share of $0.64 for the third quarter of 2024 compares to $0.59 per share for both the prior quarter and third quarter of 2023. Total investment income of $51.6 million for the third quarter compares to $49.0 million for the prior quarter, a 5% increase. The primary driver of this increase relates to what we classify as nonrecurring investment income, which consists of accelerated amortization, fee income and common stock dividends.

謝謝，亨利，大家好。我們 2024 年第三季的每股淨投資收益為 0.64 美元，而上一季和 2023 年第三季的每股淨投資收益均為 0.59 美元。第三季總投資收入為 5,160 萬美元，較上一季的 4,900 萬美元成長 5%。這一成長的主要驅動因素與我們歸類為非經常性投資收入有關，其中包括加速攤銷、費用收入和普通股股息。

Nonrecurring income increased from $1.8 million to $3.3 million quarter-over-quarter, with elevated prepayment income and accelerated OID from refinancing activity during Q3, driving the lion's share of this uptick. As I've noted in the past, while we expect some level of nonrecurring or transactional investment income each quarter, this quarter's total was meaningfully higher than recent quarters.

非經常性收入環比從 180 萬美元增至 330 萬美元，其中預付款收入增加以及第三季再融資活動帶來的 OID 加速，是推動非經常性收入成長的主要因素。正如我過去所指出的，雖然我們預計每季都會出現一定程度的非經常性或交易性投資收入，但本季的總額明顯高於最近幾季。

Importantly, our recurring yield-related investment income increased slightly quarter-over-quarter from $47.1 million to $47.3 million and continues to represent the overwhelming majority of total investment income, contributing 92% of this quarter's total.

重要的是，我們的經常性收益相關投資收入環比小幅增加，從 4,710 萬美元增至 4,730 萬美元，繼續佔總投資收入的絕大部分，貢獻了本季總投資收入的 92%。

I'd like to spend a moment on PIK income this quarter. In looking at our income statement, you'll see that PIK as a percentage of total investment income increased to 8.2% as compared to 4.3% in Q2. Of the 3.9% increase, it's important to note that approximately 3/4 or 3% is due to positive onetime credit events. We recognized back PIK on two names that had previously been on nonaccrual and have recently demonstrated strong financial performance.

我想花點時間談談本季的 PIK 收入。查看我們的損益表，您會發現 PIK 佔總投資收入的百分比從第二季的 4.3% 上升至 8.2%。在 3.9% 的增幅中，值得注意的是，大約 3/4 或 3% 是由於一次性積極信貸事件所致。我們重新確認了兩個先前未提列且最近財務表現強勁的公司 PIK。

So what we view as more recurring PIK for the quarter was closer to approximately 5%, which continues to compare favourably to the sector. Our GAAP earnings per share or net income for the third quarter of 2024 was $0.41 per share. This was primarily the result of net investment income outpacing the regular and supplemental dividends, offset by $0.22 per share of net unrealized and realized losses. As of September 30, our stockholders' equity was $749 million, resulting in net asset value per share of $20.20.

因此，我們認為本季更經常性的 PIK 接近 5% 左右，與產業相比仍具有優勢。我們 2024 年第三季的 GAAP 每股盈餘或淨收入為每股 0.41 美元。這主要是由於淨投資收益超過了常規和補充股息，抵消了每股 0.22 美元的淨未實現和已實現損失。截至 9 月 30 日，我們的股東權益為 7.49 億美元，每股淨資產為 20.20 美元。

Now let's shift to our capitalization and liquidity. I'm on slide 19. This quarter's net realizations brought our debt-to-equity ratio down from 1.18 times in the prior quarter to 1.15 times, which is below the midpoint of our stated target leverage range of 1.1 times to 1.3 times.

現在讓我們轉向資本化和流動性。我在第 19 張投影片。本季的淨實現使我們的債務權益比率從上一季的 1.18 倍下降至 1.15 倍，低於我們規定的 1.1 倍至 1.3 倍的目標槓桿率範圍的中點。

With $317 million of undrawn capacity subject to leverage, borrowing base and other restrictions and $38 million in cash and cash equivalents as of quarter end, we have sufficient liquidity to fund further investment activity while maintaining a debt-to-equity ratio inside our target range. The weighted average stated interest rate on our total borrowings was 6.59% as of quarter end, down from 6.91% in the prior quarter due to base rates. And as we've highlighted on the right-hand side of the slide, there are no debt maturities until 2026.

截至本季末，我們擁有3.17 億美元的未動用額度（受槓桿、借款基數和其他限制）和3800 萬美元的現金和現金等價物，因此我們擁有足夠的流動性來為進一步的投資活動提供資金，同時將債務權益比保持在目標範圍內。截至季末，我們總借款的加權平均利率為 6.59%，由於基準利率，低於上一季的 6.91%。正如我們在幻燈片右側所強調的那樣，直到 2026 年都沒有債務到期。

We are evaluating strategies to extend maturity dates in our debt capital stack in a measured manner over the next 12 to 18 months, while still taking advantage of the attractive low fixed rates on our unsecured notes. While we don't have any specific announcements related to our outstanding debt, we remain confident in our ability to continue to capitalize CCAP with a combination of secured and unsecured debt that will appropriately balance flexibility and the cost of capital.

我們正在評估在未來 12 至 18 個月內以有節制的方式延長債務資本到期日的策略，同時仍利用無擔保票據的低固定利率。雖然我們沒有與未償債務相關的任何具體公告，但我們仍然相信我們有能力繼續透過有擔保和無擔保債務的組合來為 CCAP 資本化，從而適當地平衡靈活性和資本成本。

As Jason noted, for the fourth quarter of 2024, our Board has declared a regular dividend of $0.42 per share, which we believe we are well positioned to cover over the longer term. We've also announced a third quarter variable supplemental dividend, which was capped at $0.07 per share given the measurement test calculation. And with that, I'd like to turn it back to Jason for closing remarks.

正如 Jason 所說，對於 2024 年第四季度，我們的董事會已宣布每股 0.42 美元的定期股息，我們相信我們有能力在長期內實現這一目標。我們還宣布了第三季浮動補充股息，根據測量測試計算，該股息上限為每股 0.07 美元。最後，我想請傑森做最後發言。

Thank you, Gerhard. In closing, we are pleased with this quarter's financial results and the performance of our investment portfolio. We've continued to maintain a defensively positioned portfolio that delivers a stable NAV profile with consistent dividend coverage.

謝謝你，格哈德。最後，我們對本季的財務表現和投資組合的表現感到滿意。我們繼續維持防禦性投資組合，以提供穩定的資產淨值狀況和一致的股息覆蓋率。

As we look forward over the remainder of 2024 and into 2025, we remain confident in the continued strong performance of CCAP's portfolio and believe we are on track to continue to deliver attractive risk-adjusted returns to our stockholders. And with that, operator, we can please open the line for questions.

展望 2024 年剩餘時間和 2025 年，我們仍然對 CCAP 投資組合的持續強勁表現充滿信心，並相信我們將繼續為股東帶來有吸引力的風險調整回報。接線員，現在我們可以開通問答熱線了。

(Operator Instructions) Robert Dodd, Raymond James.

（操作員指示）羅伯特·多德、雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Congrats on the quarter. I appreciate you going through the line items on the unusual part. So I think that if I can kind of nail that down, I'd appreciate it, right? You said the unusual prepay income and et cetera, about $3.3 million, maybe $1.5 million high versus what's kind of semi-regular in that form.

恭喜本季取得佳績。感謝您仔細查看不尋常部分的項目。所以我認為如果我能確定這一點，我會很感激，對嗎？您說不尋常的預付收入等等，大約 330 萬美元，可能比這種形式的半常規收入高出 150 萬美元。

And then the back pick seems like that was another $1.5 million that obviously won't recur. So, is that ballpark is about $3 million of nonrecurring income this quarter that shouldn't be kind of factored in going forward with the wildcard, who knows what prepays are actually going to do?

然後後面的選秀權似乎又是 150 萬美元，顯然不會再出現。那麼，本季的非經常性收入大概是 300 萬美元，這筆錢不應該被計入未來的通配符中，誰知道預付款實際上會起什麼作用呢？

Yes. Robert, this is Garth. Thanks for the question. And then you're right, we kind of partially commented on the prepared remarks. And maybe to expand on that a little bit. I think the backdrop here is that we de-levered during the quarter from 1.18 times to 1.15 times. So there was kind of a natural increase in prepayment and accelerated OID, which is -- we generally view as nonrecurring fee type income.

是的。羅伯特，這是加思。謝謝你的提問。然後你說得對，我們對準備好的評論進行了部分評論。也許可以稍微擴充一下。我認為這裡的背景是我們在本季度將槓桿率從 1.18 倍降低到了 1.15 倍。因此，預付款和加速 OID 的自然增加，我們通常將其視為非經常性費用類型的收入。

And then you're absolutely correct. There was some nonrecurring PIK income, which we view as a positive, particularly on two names that we had on nonaccrual. And so we've been recognizing some of the back PIK related to that.

那你完全正確。有一些非經常性 PIK 收入，我們認為這是正面的，特別是對於我們未提列的兩個名稱。因此，我們一直在認識到與此相關的一些 PIK。

The only other thing I would say is that there's certainly going to be in our recurring income on those PIK names, I think there will be a slight uptick in the recurring element, if that makes sense. So I'm probably a little bit lower than the $3 million you put out, but I think directionally, your comments are reasonable.

我唯一想說的是，這些 PIK 名稱肯定會成為我們的經常性收入，我認為經常性收入會略有上升，如果這說得通的話。因此，我的估計可能比你提出的 300 萬美元略低，但我認為從方向上看，你的評論是合理的。

Yes. So they're back on accrual. So the PIK coupon on those will continue and there was just a catch-up, right? So okay, I'll put that out. I appreciate the color there. Thank you. On the First Eagle assets, right? So now you rotated another four, I think you said in the fourth quarter -- sorry, in the fourth quarter, and you're now at 46% of that cost basis is now gone. I mean, -- should we expect the remaining half?

是的。因此他們又回到了應計模式。所以這些產品的 PIK 優惠券將會繼續有效，只是補齊了一點，對嗎？好吧，我就把它說出來。我很欣賞那裡的色彩。謝謝。關於 First Eagle 資產，對嗎？所以現在你又輪換了四個，我想你是說在第四季度——對不起，在第四季度，現在 46% 的成本基礎已經消失了。我的意思是──我們應該期待剩下的一半嗎？

I mean, is that like -- is that a three-year process? I mean, can you give us any color on how fast do you expect the rest of that portfolio to be rotated? Or is it just going to happen on that same pace as the core CCAP originated portfolio as well because obviously, that churns as well.

我的意思是，這是一個三年的過程嗎？我的意思是，您能否告訴我們，您預計該投資組合剩餘部分的輪換速度有多快？或者它是否會以與核心 CCAP 發起的投資組合相同的速度發生，因為顯然它也會發生變化。

Robert, it's Henry. I can comment on that. So with respect to the outlook for the remaining First Eagle assets, -- what I would say is that since we closed the acquisition last year, it's actually been quite an anaemic M&A environment. So what we haven't seen as much in that portfolio is what I would term natural runoff, which is vis-a-vis refinancings and sales of the respective portfolio companies.

羅伯特，我是亨利。我可以對此發表評論。因此，關於剩餘 First Eagle 資產的前景，我想說的是，自從我們去年完成收購以來，併購環境實際上一直相當低迷。因此，我們在該投資組合中沒有看到太多我稱之為自然流失的情況，即相對於各自投資組合公司的再融資和銷售。

I think just given some of the change in the market backdrop post the election and just some of the broader commentary we've been hearing for the larger part of this year around the uptick in M&A activity, our expectation is that, that will likely accelerate as the sponsors for those companies seek to monetize the assets seek to monetize those investments.

我認為，考慮到選舉後市場背景的一些變化，以及我們今年大部分時間聽到的有關併購活動增加的一些更廣泛的評論，我們預計，這可能會加速因為這些公司的發起人尋求將資產貨幣化，並尋求將投資貨幣化。

We just haven't been able to see that as much since we closed this in March '23 given the broader M&A backdrop. So, I think it's tough to give you definitive timing here, but I would expect that the pace is going to be a bit quicker than what we've seen at least over the last year and a half.

鑑於更廣泛的併購背景，自從我們在 23 年 3 月結束這筆交易以來，我們還沒有看到太多這樣的情況。因此，我認為很難在這裡給出明確的時間，但我預計速度會比我們至少在過去一年半中看到的要快一些。

I appreciate that color. That kind of leads into my last question. Obviously, you took this in the opening remarks, 2025 is expected to be more active. I mean, given the bar for 2024 and 2023 is basically laying on the floor. So it's not hard to get over that bar. How active are you expecting 2025?

我很欣賞那個顏色。這引出了我的最後一個疑問。顯然，您在開場白中提到了這一點，預計 2025 年會更加活躍。我的意思是，2024 年和 2023 年的標準基本上是放在最低限度的。所以要跨越這個障礙並不難。您預計 2025 年的活躍程度如何？

I mean one of your larger competitor this morning basically said, hey, we're going to see 2021 levels of activity. I mean, is that optimistic? Because obviously, that would be a very large acceleration from the activity levels we've seen over the last couple of years.

我的意思是，今天早上你的一個較大的競爭對手基本上說，嘿，我們將看到 2021 年的活動水平。我的意思是，這是否樂觀呢？因為顯然，與過去幾年我們所看到的活動水平相比，這將是一次非常大的加速。

Yes. Robert, it's Jason. Thanks for the question. I don't know if we would be able to necessarily calibrate relative to 2021, what we expect for 2025. Some similar dynamic where you had a challenging year prior in terms of activity. And so there was certainly some pent-up demand from 2020 rolling into 2021. I think we're seeing that here as well, just given the higher rate environment that we've been in for the past couple of years.

是的。羅伯特，我是傑森。謝謝你的提問。我不知道我們是否能夠根據 2021 年校準我們對 2025 年的預期。就活動而言，您在前一年也經歷了一些類似的挑戰。因此，2020 年被壓抑的需求肯定會延續到 2021 年。我認為我們也在這裡看到了這種情況，因為過去幾年我們一直處於較高的利率環境中。

So, I do think there's optimism around a significant pickup in activity. I think the election results provide incremental tailwind for that and optimism for that. We've continued to see sort of sluggish returns of capital back to LPs and significant dry powder waiting on the sidelines. So I would say we're very constructive on 2025 and the opportunity for deployment.

因此，我確實認為人們對活動的大幅回升抱持樂觀態度。我認為選舉結果為此提供了增量的順風和樂觀情緒。我們持續看到資本回流到 LP 的緩慢趨勢以及大量待籌集資金在場外等待的現象。因此我想說，我們對 2025 年和部署機會非常有建設性。

And I do think -- you didn't necessarily ask this, but I do think that, that also helps with some of the dynamics that we've seen this year around pricing and spread compression. We've certainly seen spread compression most acute in the upper middle market as opposed to the lower and core where we generally operate. But it's been tighter across the board. And I do think with a little bit of a correction on supply-demand that should work in our favour in terms of spread stabilization.

我確實認為——您不一定會問這個問題，但我確實認為，這也有助於我們今年看到的有關定價和價差壓縮的一些動態。我們確實看到，利差壓縮在中上層市場最為嚴重，而不是像我們通常營運的低層和核心市場。但從各方面來看，情況都變得更加嚴格了。我確實認為，對供需進行一些調整應該有利於利差穩定。

And I think to add to that, one dynamic -- or two dynamics of 2021 that are different than today. First is we don't have 0% base rates. And secondly, 2021 was a record year for private equity fundraising as well, whereas the latter half of '23 and '24 were much more muted just given slower monetization's across PE as a whole.

我想補充一點，2021 年有一個或兩個動態與今天不同。首先，我們沒有 0% 的基準利率。其次，2021 年也是私募股權融資創紀錄的一年，而 2023 年下半年和 2024 年則由於整個 PE 的貨幣化速度放緩而顯得平淡得多。

So those are certainly two counterweights when we think about the outlook. We certainly do expect quite a bit more activity than what we've seen over the last 18 months -- 18 to 24 months. But I do think in many ways, to 2021 was a bit of a special confluence of factors that drove that level of activity, but we'll see.

因此，當我們考慮前景時，這無疑是兩個平衡因素。我們確實預計今年的活動會比過去 18 個月（18 到 24 個月）多得多。但我確實認為，在很多方面，到 2021 年，一些特殊的因素共同推動了這種活動水平，但我們拭目以待。

And I'll just add one more thing to that. I agree with everything Henry said. I would just say that on the fundraising side of things, while it has been certainly more challenging in certain segments of the market, we have absolutely observed significant capital being raised in the wealth channel in the form of nontraded BDCs, primarily. Those commitments are coming in on a monthly basis, fully funded with significant pressure to deploy capital as a result of those monthly subscriptions.

我只想補充一點。我同意亨利說的一切。我只想說，在籌資方面，雖然在某些市場領域確實更具挑戰性，但我們確實觀察到財富管道中籌集了大量資金，主要是以非交易 BDC 的形式。這些承諾按月支付，資金充足，並且由於這些每月訂閱而面臨巨大的資本部署壓力。

So yes, fundraising, certainly not a record year on the institutional side, but there is pressure in the upper mid-market to put capital to work, particularly from the tailwinds from wealth.

所以，是的，從機構方面來說，籌款肯定不是創紀錄的一年，但中高端市場面臨資本投入的壓力，尤其是來自財富的順風。

(Operator Instructions) Paul Johnson, KBW.

(操作員指示) Paul Johnson, KBW。

You guys have completed two, I would say, pretty successful acquisitions in the BDC space since going public. I would just kind of ask what are-- is there goals for potentially more acquisitions in the future? Or do you guys have, I guess, other priorities, things that you'd like to accomplish first over this next year?

自上市以來，你們已經在 BDC 領域完成了兩次相當成功的收購。我只是想問一下，未來是否有可能進行更多收購的目標？或者我想你們還有其他優先考慮的事情，想要在明年優先完成的事情？

I mean, how do you, I guess, balance that with what could be a very active year, albeit potentially lower spreads, lower return environment. Just curious if those opportunities are out there, if that's still something you consider or if there's, again, other things you'd like to accomplish first?

我的意思是，你如何平衡這一因素與可能非常活躍的一年，儘管息差可能較低，回報環境也較低？只是好奇是否存在這些機會，是否仍會考慮，或者是否有其他您想先完成的事情？

Thanks, Paul. It's Jason. I appreciate the question. We think a lot about how to grow our platform at Crescent and how to grow our BDC platform. We've historically operated Crescent and CCAP in a way, I think that proves out measured growth. We would certainly like to continue to grow CCAP and would explore a variety of paths to doing that, certainly open to the prospect of additional M&A, open the prospect of more organic growth as well. But that's -- I think we've always looked at our business in a way where we want to make sure that we are doing right by our investors and not growing for the sake of growth.

謝謝，保羅。是傑森。我很感謝你提出這個問題。我們思考了很多關於如何在 Crescent 發展我們的平台以及如何發展我們的 BDC 平台。我們過去一直以某種方式經營 Crescent 和 CCAP，我認為這證明了可衡量的成長。我們當然希望繼續發展 CCAP，並會探索各種途徑來實現這一目標，當然也對更多併購的前景持開放態度，也對更多有機增長的前景持開放態度。但那是——我認為，我們一直在以這樣一種方式看待我們的業務：我們希望確保我們為投資者做正確的事情，而不是為了成長而成長。

That's the case for our BDCs. That's the case for our institutional product. And so as we think about Crescent today, $40-plus billion of AUM, $30-plus billion of private credit AUM. The CCAP platform benefits significantly from being a part of Crescent, where CCAP on average, I think, historically has probably invested at about 10% of average total Crescent check size on a historical basis.

我們的 BDC 就是這種情況。我們的機構產品就是這種情況。因此，當我們考慮今天的 Crescent 時，其 AUM 超過 400 億美元，私人信貸 AUM 超過 300 億美元。CCAP 平台因成為 Crescent 的一部分而受益匪淺，我認為，從歷史上看，CCAP 平均投資的金額可能佔 Crescent 平均總支票規模的 10% 左右。

So that really allows us to be well diversified in our portfolio mitigate risk through that diversification while still staying relevant to our sponsor and portfolio company clients by being able to speak for size across the book -- across the platform.

因此，這確實使我們能夠在投資組合中實現良好的多元化，透過這種多元化來降低風險，同時仍然能夠透過在整個平台上代表規模來與我們的贊助商和投資組合公司客戶保持相關性。

So again, we would love to continue to grow CCAP. We would certainly look at additional M&A opportunities. I think, in fact, we view ourselves as fiduciaries and we would have to look at future opportunities. Those don't always come all that regularly, but we'll look at them. But importantly, we don't need to grow for the sake of growth, and we certainly benefit by being attached to the larger Crescent platform.

所以，我們再次希望繼續發展 CCAP。我們肯定會尋找更多的併購機會。我認為，事實上，我們將自己視為受託人，我們必須著眼於未來的機會。這些並不總是有規律地出現，但我們會注意它們。但重要的是，我們不需要為了成長而成長，加入更大的 Crescent 平台無疑會讓我們受益。

Appreciate that. And could you just tell us the depreciation this quarter looked like a bigger part of it was driven kind of from the controlled investments this quarter and the markdowns, the unrealized markdowns. Can you just tell us where that's coming from? Is that related to any of the legacy merger assets?

非常感謝。您能否告訴我們，本季的折舊似乎很大一部分是由於本季的受控投資和減損、未實現的減損造成的。你能告訴我們這是從哪裡來的嗎？這與任何遺留的合併資產有關嗎？

Paul, it's Gerhard. I can take that. And if you want to do a deeper dive on the credits, let us know. But I think there were primarily four names that I think kind of drove most of the unrealized loss in the portfolio. I think you're correct, a portion of that came from a control investments in the Logan JV, which, as you know, is a levered investment.

保羅，我是格哈德。我可以接受。如果您想更深入地了解詳情，請告訴我們。但我認為主要有四個名字導致了投資組合中大部分未實現損失。我認為你是對的，其中一部分來自對 Logan JV 的控制投資，如你所知，這是一種槓桿投資。

And so there's just more kind of rate sensitivity there that impacts the mark on that equity position. And then there were three other names on our nonaccrual list, largely. I think two of them were nonaccrual assets and the other one was a markdown quarter-over-quarter. So it was really four individual names that drove the kind of the unrealized you're seeing this quarter.

因此，那裡的利率敏感性會更多地影響股權頭寸的目標。然後，我們的未計利息和利息名單上還有另外三個名字。我認為其中兩項是非應計資產，另一項是季度環比減損。因此，實際上是四個人的名字導致了本季出現的未實現利潤。

And last one for me. Can you explain -- so the supplemental dividend, $0.07 this quarter, down a little bit from the prior quarter. What exactly was the mechanism that capped the supplemental dividend at $0.07 for next quarter?

對我來說這是最後一個。您能解釋一下嗎——本季度的補充股息為 0.07 美元，比上一季略有下降。將下一季的補充股息限制在 0.07 美元的機制究竟是什麼？

Yes, this is Gerhard. I can take that as well. There's a cap that limits the reduction in NAV as a function of both the supplemental and unrealized changes in marks to no greater than $0.15 as measured over a two-quarter period. And so essentially, the combination of the unrealized change in fair value and the supplemental cannot exceed $0.15. And so the supplemental as a result is capped at $0.07 this quarter. Otherwise, purely based on the NII overrun, it would be a higher number.

是的，這是 Gerhard。我也能接受。有一個上限，限制資產淨值因補充和未實現標記變化而減少的幅度不超過兩個季度期間測量的 0.15 美元。因此，本質上，未實現公允價值變動和補充金額的總和不能超過 0.15 美元。因此本季的補充上限為 0.07 美元。否則，僅基於 NII 超支，這個數字會更高。

(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions in queue at this time. I will turn the program to our speakers for any additional or closing remarks.

（操作員指示）目前隊列中沒有其他問題。我將把節目單交給我們的發言人，以便他們發表任何補充或結束語。

Thank you, operator. Thank you all for joining us here today for our Q3 earnings call. We appreciate your time and your support of CCAP, and we look forward to speaking with you all soon.

謝謝您，接線生。感謝大家今天參加我們的第三季財報電話會議。我們感謝您的時間和對 CCAP 的支持，我們期待很快與您交談。

This does conclude today's program. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

今天的節目到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。