Camtek Ltd (CAMT) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

完整原文

使用警語:中文譯文來源為 Google 翻譯,僅供參考,實際內容請以英文原文為主

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by.

    女士們先生們,謝謝你們的支持。

  • I would like to welcome all of you to Camtek's results Zoom webinar.

    歡迎大家參加 Camtek 的 Zoom 結果網路研討會。

  • My name is Kenny Green and I'm part of the Investor Relations team at Camtek.

    我叫 Kenny Green,是 Camtek 投資者關係團隊的一員。

  • (Event Instructions)

    (活動須知)

  • I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded, and the recording will be available on Camtek's website from tomorrow.

    我想提醒大家,這次電話會議正在錄音,明天起錄音就會在Camtek的網站上發布。

  • You should have all by now received the press release, if not, please view it on the company's website.

    您現在應該已經收到新聞稿了,如果沒有,請到公司網站上查看。

  • With me on the call today, we have Mr. Rafi Amit, Camtek's CEO; Mr. Moshe Eisenberg, Camtek's CFO; and Mr. Ramy Langer, Camtek's COO.

    今天與我一起參加電話會議的有 Camtek 執行長 Rafi Amit 先生; Moshe Eisenberg先生,Camtek財務長;以及 Camtek 首席營運長 Ramy Langer 先生。

  • Rafi will open by providing an overview of Camtek's results and discuss recent market trends.

    Rafi 將首先概述 Camtek 的業績並討論最近的市場趨勢。

  • Moshe will then summarize the financial results of the quarter.

    隨後,摩西將總結本季的財務表現。

  • Following that, Rafi, Moshe, and Ramy will be available to answer your questions.

    隨後,Rafi、Moshe 和 Ramy 將回答您的問題。

  • Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that certain information provided on this call are internal company estimates unless otherwise specified.

    在開始之前,我想提醒大家,除非另有說明,本次電話會議中提供的某些資訊均為公司內部估計。

  • This call may also contain forward-looking information.

    此電話會議還可能包含前瞻性資訊。

  • These statements are only predictions and may change as time passes.

    這些陳述只是預測,可能會隨著時間的推移而改變。

  • Statements on this call are made as of today, and the company undertakes no obligation to update any of that forward-looking information, or statements contained whether as a result of new information, future results, changes, expectations, or otherwise.

    本次電話會議的聲明截至今天,本公司不承擔更新任何前瞻性資訊或所包含聲明的義務,無論是由於新資訊、未來結果、變更、預期或其他原因。

  • Investors are reminded that these forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results or events to differ materially from those projected, including as a result of the effects of general economic conditions; risks related to the concentration of a significant portion of Camtek's expected business in certain countries, particularly China from which Camtek expects to generate a significant portion of its revenues for the foreseeable future, but also to win in Korea, including the risks of deviations from our expectations regarding timing and size of orders from customers in these countries; changing industry and market trends; reduced demand for services and products; the timely development of new services and products and their adoption by the market; increased competition in the industry and price reductions; as well as due to other risks identified in the company's filings with the SEC.

    請投資人注意,這些前瞻性陳述存在風險和不確定性,可能導致實際結果或事件與預測有重大差異,包括由於總體經濟狀況的影響;與 Camtek 預期業務的很大一部分集中在某些國家(特別是中國)相關的風險,Camtek 預計在可預見的未來將產生很大一部分收入,而且還將在韓國獲勝,包括偏離我們的預期的風險對這些國家客戶的訂單時間和規模的期望;不斷變化的行業和市場趨勢;對服務和產品的需求減少;及時開發新服務和產品並被市場採用;產業競爭加劇和價格下降;以及該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中發現的其他風險。

  • Please note the safe harbor statements in today's release also covers the contents of this conference call.

    請注意,今天發布的安全港聲明也涵蓋了本次電話會議的內容。

  • In addition, during this call, certain non-GAAP financial measures will be discussed.

    此外,在本次電話會議中,也將討論某些非公認會計準則財務指標。

  • These are used by management to make strategic decisions, forecast future results, and evaluate the company's future performance.

    管理層利用這些來制定策略決策、預測未來結果並評估公司未來表現。

  • Management believes that the presentation of non-GAAP financial measures are useful to investors' understanding and assessment of the company's ongoing cooperation and prospects for the future.

    管理階層認為,非公認會計原則財務指標的呈現有助於投資者了解和評估公司正在進行的合作以及未來的前景。

  • A full reconciliation of non-GAAP to GAAP financial measures are included in today's earnings release.

    今天的財報中包含了非公認會計準則與公認會計準則財務指標的全面調整。

  • I'd now like to hand the call over to Rafi Amit, Camtek's CEO.

    現在我想將電話轉交給 Camtek 執行長 Rafi Amit。

  • Rafi, please go ahead.

    拉菲,請繼續。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Thanks, Kenny.

    謝謝,肯尼。

  • Good morning or good afternoon, everyone.

    大家早安或下午好。

  • Camtek ended 2023 with record fourth quarter of $89 million in revenue at the upper end of our guidance, bringing our full year revenue to $315 million.

    2023 年結束時,Camtek 第四季營收達到創紀錄的 8,900 萬美元,處於我們指引值的上限,使我們的全年收入達到 3.15 億美元。

  • Sales in 2023 predictably started modestly after a record year in sales in 2022, yet due to increase the amount of HPC-related product in the second half of the year, we experienced a significant increase in orders and sales, so that Q4 came in 20% higher than the first quarter of 2023.

    繼 2022 年創下銷售紀錄後,2023 年的銷售預計將溫和開始,但由於下半年 HPC 相關產品的數量增加,我們的訂單和銷售額大幅增加,因此第四季度在 20比2023 年第一季高%。

  • The gross margin in the quarter came in at 49.2% which is a continued improvement over previous quarters, as we had indicated earlier this year.

    正如我們今年稍早指出的那樣,本季的毛利率為 49.2%,比前幾季持續改善。

  • The operating margin also showed an improvement to 29.2%. 65% of our revenue from product came from advanced interconnect packaging applications with a substantial portion coming from HBM and chiplet modules.

    營業利益率也有所改善,達到 29.2%。我們 65% 的產品收入來自先進互連封裝應用,其中很大一部分來自 HBM 和小晶片模組。

  • The remaining 35% is divided between compound semiconductors for power devices CIS and process control applications.

    剩餘的 35% 分配給用於功率元件 CIS 和製程控制應用的化合物半導體。

  • This achievement was primarily due to our strong position in Tier 1 customers who manufacture HBM and chiplet devices for AI applications.

    這項成就主要歸功於我們在為 AI 應用製造 HBM 和小晶片設備的一級客戶中的強大地位。

  • We expect this demand to continue into 2024 and beyond, as it has been reflected in our current order flow backlog and pipeline.

    我們預計這種需求將持續到 2024 年及以後,正如我們目前的訂單流積壓和管道所反映的那樣。

  • We expect 2024 to be a record year even before taking into account the contribution of sales from FRT.

    即使不考慮 FRT 的銷售貢獻,我們預計 2024 年將是創紀錄的一年。

  • Our revenue guidance for the first quarter is $93 million to $95 million, which represent around 30% growth over Q1 last year.

    我們對第一季的營收指引為 9,300 萬至 9,500 萬美元,比去年第一季成長約 30%。

  • Now, I would like to give an overview of the business environment.

    下面我想介紹一下營商環境。

  • As we have mentioned, our main growth engine are the HBM and chiplet modules.

    正如我們所提到的,我們主要的成長引擎是 HBM 和小晶片模組。

  • These two products are the current stones of HPC, and there is a consensus among analysts that they will continue growing in the coming years as an annual rate of 20% to 30%.

    這兩種產品是目前HPC的基石,分析師一致認為它們將在未來幾年繼續以每年20%至30%的速度成長。

  • Camtek is a strong player in this segment.

    Camtek 是這一領域的強大參與者。

  • We are present at all Tier 1 customers in a large number of inspection and metrology steps.

    我們為所有一級客戶提供大量的檢驗和計量步驟。

  • The HBM and chiplet integration require high yield and non-good dyes to ramp to high-volume production.

    HBM 和小晶片整合需要高產量和不良染料才能實現大批量生產。

  • This requirement drives the inspection and the metrology needs.

    這項要求推動了檢查和計量的需求。

  • In addition to that, these customers invest a lot of R&D resources to add more feature and capability to increase the performance of the HPC.

    除此之外,這些客戶投入大量研發資源來增加更多功能和功能,以提高 HPC 的效能。

  • And we are being frequently asked by our customers to provide new inspection and metrology solutions.

    客戶經常要求我們提供新的檢測和計量解決方案。

  • As an example, at one of our major customers, we have developed tens of new inspection and metrology steps over the last year.

    例如,在我們的一個主要客戶中,我們去年開發了數十個新的檢查和計量步驟。

  • We have recently announced receiving significant orders for HPC-related applications for delivery mainly in the first half of 2024.

    我們最近宣布收到 HPC 相關應用程式的大量訂單,主要在 2024 年上半年交付。

  • We are now getting initial indications that an additional substantial amount of orders are also expected in the second half.

    我們現在得到初步跡象,預計下半年還會有大量訂單。

  • We also continue to receive orders from customers who do not belong to the HPC field.

    我們也不斷收到不屬於HPC領域的客戶的訂單。

  • A great number of our OSAT customers continue to increase their production capacity.

    我們大量的 OSAT 客戶不斷提高產能。

  • China is still an important market for us, but the high demand for HPC will change the distributions of our sales between the different territories.

    中國仍然是我們的重要市場,但對HPC的高需求將改變我們在不同地區之間的銷售分佈。

  • I estimate that the share of our business coming from Korea, Taiwan, and USA will increase in the coming years.

    我估計未來幾年我們來自韓國、台灣和美國的業務份額將會增加。

  • Regarding FRT, the official closing was at the end of October 2023.

    關於FRT,正式關閉時間為2023年10月。

  • We are very pleased with this acquisition.

    我們對此次收購感到非常滿意。

  • We are confident that FRT will meet our expectation regarding sales and profit for 2024.

    我們有信心 FRT 將達到我們對 2024 年銷售額和利潤的預期。

  • We are in the process of post-merger integration, which we expect to be completed later this year.

    我們正在進行合併後整合,預計今年稍後完成。

  • FRT is well established in certain metrology applications for HPC and power devices based on silicon carbide.

    FRT 在基於碳化矽的 HPC 和功率裝置的某些計量應用中得到了廣泛應用。

  • And we are preparing FRT to meet the increasing demand for these markets.

    我們正在準備 FRT 以滿足這些市場不斷增長的需求。

  • We believe FRT has the potential to grow rapidly in the coming years.

    我們相信FRT在未來幾年有快速成長的潛力。

  • Regarding our assessment for 2024, in our last meeting, you heard us estimate that 2024 will be a record year in sales.

    關於我們對 2024 年的評估,在我們上次會議上,您聽到我們估計 2024 年將是銷售創紀錄的一年。

  • Today, we are halfway through the first quarter.

    今天,第一季已過半。

  • And based on our backlog and orders in pipeline, we feel even stronger that 2024 will indeed be a record year.

    根據我們的積壓訂單和在建訂單,我們更加堅信 2024 年確實將是創紀錄的一年。

  • However, it is too early to give accurate prediction about the expected growth in 2024.

    然而,現在對 2024 年的預期成長做出準確預測還為時過早。

  • And now, Moshe will review the financial results.

    現在,摩西將審查財務業績。

  • Moshe?

    摩西?

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • Thank you, Rafi.

    謝謝你,拉菲。

  • In my financial summary ahead, I will provide the results on a non-GAAP basis.

    在接下來的財務摘要中,​​我將提供非公認會計準則基礎上的結果。

  • The reconciliation between the GAAP results and the non-GAAP results appear in the table at the end of the press release issued earlier today.

    公認會計準則 (GAAP) 業績與非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 業績之間的調節表顯示在今天早些時候發布的新聞稿末尾的表格中。

  • The FRT transaction in purchase accounting treatment are included for the first time in our non-GAAP reconciliations.

    採購會計處理中的 FRT 交易首次納入我們的非 GAAP 調節表中。

  • Revenue for the fourth quarter came in at a record $88.7 million, an increase of 8% compared with the fourth quarter of 2022, an increase of 10% from the third quarter of 2023.

    第四季營收達到創紀錄的8,870萬美元,較2022年第四季成長8%,較2023年第三季成長10%。

  • The geographic revenue split for the quarter was as follows: Asia was 82% of our revenues, with US and Europe the remaining 18%.

    本季的地理收入分配如下:亞洲占我們營收的 82%,美國和歐洲佔剩餘的 18%。

  • Gross profit for the quarter was $43.7 million, the gross margin for the quarter was 49.2%, a slight improvement from the third quarter of 2023.

    該季度毛利為 4,370 萬美元,該季度毛利率為 49.2%,較 2023 年第三季略有改善。

  • This gradual improvement is a result of the efforts we have made throughout the year and we anticipate this trend to continue in the coming quarters.

    這種逐步改善是我們全年努力的結果,我們預計這種趨勢將在未來幾季繼續下去。

  • Operating expenses in the quarter were $18.2 million, compared with $17.4 million in the fourth quarter of last year and $17.2 million in the previous quarter.

    本季營運費用為 1,820 萬美元,去年第四季營運費用為 1,740 萬美元,上一季營運費用為 1,720 萬美元。

  • I note that this quarter, we included for the first time the two months of FRT-related expenses, which explains the increase from the previous quarter.

    我注意到,本季我們首次納入了兩個月的 FRT 相關費用,這解釋了比上一季增加的原因。

  • Operating profit in the quarter was $25.5 million compared to the $22.8 million reported in the fourth quarter of last year and $22.2 million in the third quarter.

    本季營業利潤為 2,550 萬美元,去年第四季為 2,280 萬美元,第三季為 2,220 萬美元。

  • The increase is mostly due to the increase in the revenue and the improvement in the gross profit.

    增加主要由於收入增加及毛利改善所致。

  • Operating margin was 28.7% compared to 27.8% and 27.6%, respectively.

    營業利益率為 28.7%,去年同期分別為 27.8% 及 27.6%。

  • Financial income for the quarter was $5.7 million, at a similar level to the previous quarter and higher than the $3.8 million reported last year.

    本季財務收入為 570 萬美元,與上一季持平,高於去年報告的 380 萬美元。

  • The increase from last year relates to significantly higher interest rates on our cash balance.

    較去年增加的原因是我們現金餘額的利率大幅上升。

  • Net income for the fourth quarter of 2023 was $28.2 million or $0.57 per diluted share.

    2023 年第四季淨利為 2,820 萬美元,或稀釋後每股收益 0.57 美元。

  • This is compared to a net income of $24 million or $0.50 per share in the fourth quarter of last year.

    相比之下,去年第四季的淨利潤為 2,400 萬美元,即每股 0.50 美元。

  • Total diluted number of shares as of the end of Q4 was $49.1 million.

    截至第四季末,攤薄後的股票總數為 4,910 萬美元。

  • Turning to some high-level balance sheet and cash flow metrics.

    轉向一些高階資產負債表和現金流量指標。

  • Cash and cash equivalents, including short and long-term deposits and marketable securities as of December 31, 2023, were $448.6 million.

    截至 2023 年 12 月 31 日,現金和現金等價物,包括短期和長期存款以及有價證券,為 4.486 億美元。

  • This compared with $517.1 million at the end of the third quarter.

    相比之下,第三季末的銷售額為 5.171 億美元。

  • The decrease is due to the $100 million cash for the acquisition of FRT.

    減少的原因是為收購 FRT 提供了 1 億美元現金。

  • We generated $34.2 million in cash from operations in the quarter on the back of an increased revenue and good collection.

    由於收入增加和良好的收款情況,本季我們從營運中獲得了 3,420 萬美元的現金。

  • Inventory level increased to $94.9 million.

    庫存水準增加至 9,490 萬美元。

  • The increase over the previous quarter is in part to support the anticipated sales growth in the coming quarters as well as the addition of at inventory.

    較上一季的成長部分是為了支持未來幾季的預期銷售成長以及庫存的增加。

  • Accounts receivable decreased to $87.3 million in the quarter despite the increase in revenue and the addition of FRT.

    儘管收入增加且增加了 FRT,但本季應收帳款仍減少至 8,730 萬美元。

  • This was done primarily as a result of strong collection in the quarter.

    這主要是由於本季強勁的收款活動所致。

  • Our Day Sales Outstanding, DSO, decreased to 90 days.

    我們的每日銷售應付款 (DSO) 減少至 90 天。

  • As Rafi said before, we expect revenue of between $93 million and $95 million in the first quarter and that we look forward to a year of growth in 2024.

    正如拉菲之前所說,我們預計第一季的營收將在 9,300 萬美元至 9,500 萬美元之間,並期待 2024 年實現成長。

  • And with that, Rafi, Ramy, and I will be open to take your questions.

    拉菲、拉米和我將願意回答你們的問題。

  • Kenny?

    肯尼?

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • (Event Instructions) Charles Shi, Needham.

    (活動說明)Charles Shi,Needham。

  • Charles Shi - Analyst

    Charles Shi - Analyst

  • Thanks, Kenny.

    謝謝,肯尼。

  • I have a three-part question.

    我有一個由三個部分組成的問題。

  • Orders -- the order flow.

    訂單——訂單流。

  • So I think last time when you report earnings that was in mid-November, you talked about -- starting from the third quarter 2023, you got probably 240 systems in your order.

    因此,我認為上次您在 11 月中旬報告收益時談到,從 2023 年第三季開始,您的訂單中可能有 240 個系統。

  • Now, you said the entire second half 2023 order number is close to 300 systems.

    現在,您說整個2023年下半年訂單數量接近300個系統。

  • So the first part of this question, right, can you give a little bit more color on what's the incremental 60%?

    所以這個問題的第一部分,對吧,你能對增量 60% 給予更多的說明嗎?

  • Where are they from?

    他們從哪裡來?

  • And what kind of applications?

    以及什麼樣的應用?

  • The second part of this multi-part question really is, what's the general trend of the order intake in January and February?

    這個多部分問題的第二部分實際上是,一月和二月訂單量的總體趨勢是什麼?

  • I understand there's a Lunar New Year in between, but any color will be great.

    我知道中間有農曆新年,但任何顏色都很棒。

  • But the third thing, I think you said in the prepared remarks, you talked about initial indications of new orders in second half 2024.

    但第三件事,我想你在準備好的演講中說過,你談到了 2024 年下半年新訂單的初步跡象。

  • I want to ask you to clarify, do you mean taking in new -- or you expect to taking new orders in second half 2024?

    我想請您澄清一下,您的意思是接收新訂單,還是預計在 2024 年下半年接收新訂單?

  • Or do you expect that to take those orders in coming months, but then you deliver in second half 2024?

    或者您預計在未來幾個月內接受這些訂單,然後在 2024 年下半年交付?

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Ramy Langer - Chief Executive Officer

    Ramy Langer - Chief Executive Officer

  • So hi, Charles, this is Ramy.

    嗨,查爾斯,我是拉米。

  • So, first of all, yes, the older flow continues linearly.

    所以,首先,是的,舊的流程線性地繼續。

  • There's nothing outstanding on the flow itself.

    流程本身並沒有什麼突出的地方。

  • But I think most of the orders that came lately, the addition came more from the offset world.

    但我認為最近收到的大部分訂單,更多來自膠印領域。

  • So it was less from the HBM.

    所以來自 HBM 的較少。

  • Regarding the beginning of the year, so definitely, we're starting to see orders.

    關於今年年初,我們肯定開始看到訂單。

  • Chinese New Year definitely, now, it's two weeks where Asia is more or less closed.

    肯定是農曆新年,現在,亞洲或多或少已經關閉了兩週。

  • But the discussions, the pipeline is coming up, and we don't see any change in the activities.

    但討論、管道即將展開,我們沒有看到活動有任何變化。

  • I think we had long discussions about the second half.

    我想我們對下半場進行了長時間的討論。

  • And I think the question was specifically about the HBM.

    我認為這個問題專門針對 HBM。

  • So yes, we discussed, and I think Rafi mentioned it in the prepared notes.

    所以,是的,我們討論過,我認為拉菲在準備好的筆記中提到了這一點。

  • We are seeing orders and we are talking -- let's say, we're expecting orders in the coming weeks; all deliveries already in the second half of this year.

    我們正在看到訂單並且我們正在談論——比方說,我們預計在未來幾週內收到訂單;所有交付已於今年下半年完成。

  • So definitely, we see a very positive trend.

    所以毫無疑問,我們看到了一個非常正面的趨勢。

  • The backlog is building up for the second half, and we are in discussions with customers, including HBM customers, for shipments of machines in the second half of the year.

    下半年的積壓訂單不斷增加,我們正在與客戶(包括 HBM 客戶)討論下半年機器的出貨事宜。

  • Charles Shi - Analyst

    Charles Shi - Analyst

  • Thanks, Ramy.

    謝謝,拉米。

  • That's great color.

    那顏色真棒。

  • Glad to see you are expecting more orders to come from HBM customers maybe for delivery in the second half.

    很高興看到您預計 HBM 客戶可能會在下半年交付更多訂單。

  • Maybe I want to ask Moshe a question.

    也許我想問摩西一個問題。

  • Some of the new items in your non-GAAP reconciliation looks like you wrote off some of the FRT inventory after the close last year.

    非 GAAP 調整表中的一些新項目看起來像是您在去年收盤後註銷了一些 FRT 庫存。

  • So can you provide some more details why you chose to write off some of the inventory now, because I would guess it's less likely you actually seeing some inventory you're not going to sell, but what's the rationale behind the write-off?

    那麼,您能否提供更多詳細信息,說明為什麼您現在選擇註銷部分庫存,因為我猜您實際上不太可能看到一些不會出售的庫存,但是註銷背後的理由是什麼?

  • Maybe a related question.

    也許是一個相關的問題。

  • Any update on the FRT outlook for this year, because at the time of the close of the acquisition, you talked about maybe $30 million-ish revenue you expect from FRT in 2024.

    關於今年 FRT 前景的任何更新,因為在收購結束時,您談到預計 2024 年 FRT 的收入可能為 3000 萬美元左右。

  • Is that number maintained -- remains the same?

    這個數字是否保持不變?

  • Any upside from that number?

    這個數字有什麼好處嗎?

  • Thanks.

    謝謝。

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • I'll address both questions.

    我將回答這兩個問題。

  • And Ramy and Rafi will add if they want.

    如果拉米和拉菲願意的話,他們也會補充。

  • So regarding FRT, you know we said it is also in the press release, we are very pleased with the acquisition.

    關於 FRT,我們在新聞稿中也說過,我們對這項收購感到非常滿意。

  • No change in terms of our expectation from FRT as it relates to 2024 revenue and profitability.

    我們對 FRT 的預期沒有變化,因為它與 2024 年的收入和獲利能力有關。

  • We are in the midst of post-merger integration efforts, trying to put together the business.

    我們正在進行合併後的整合工作,試圖整合業務。

  • The some of it is already done and some is in process.

    其中一些已經完成,一些正在進行中。

  • We plan by the end of the day to have FRT to be an integral part of Camtek, such that we are not going to report separately the FRT results.

    我們計劃最終讓 FRT 成為 Camtek 的一個組成部分,這樣我們就不會單獨報告 FRT 結果。

  • Some of the products will also become part of our product offering.

    一些產品也將成為我們產品的一部分。

  • So this will have a positive impact also on our revenue, as well as on their revenue.

    因此,這也將對我們的收入以及他們的收入產生正面影響。

  • So that's FRT.

    這就是 FRT。

  • And specifically, what you see in a write-off is a small amount of inventory that we find that we could walk out together, between us and FRT, to put together a new product offering in some part of this.

    具體來說,您在沖銷中看到的是少量庫存,我們發現我們可以和 FRT 一起清理這些庫存,以便在其中的某些部分整合新產品。

  • The end result of the product resulted in some inventory write-off.

    產品的最終結果導致了一些庫存的沖銷。

  • It's a small amount of $900,000, but we are not shutting off any FRT-related product lines.

    這是 90 萬美元的小數目,但我們不會關閉任何與 FRT 相關的產品線。

  • Charles Shi - Analyst

    Charles Shi - Analyst

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Brian Chin, Stifel.

    布萊恩·欽,斯蒂菲爾。

  • Brian Chin - Analyst

    Brian Chin - Analyst

  • Hi, there.

    你好呀。

  • Can you hear me okay?

    你聽得到我說話嗎?

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Yeah.

    是的。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Yes, we hear you very well.

    是的,我們聽得很清楚。

  • Brian Chin - Analyst

    Brian Chin - Analyst

  • Great.

    偉大的。

  • Thanks for letting us ask a few questions.

    感謝您讓我們問幾個問題。

  • I think previously, Rafi, you had noted that HBM and Heterogenous Integration could comprise 30% or maybe 30% plus of revenue in 2024.

    Rafi,我想您之前曾指出,HBM 和異質整合可能會在 2024 年佔收入的 30% 甚至 30% 以上。

  • And maybe that would also account for a predominant amount of the growth incrementally year to year.

    也許這也是逐年增加成長的主要原因。

  • Do you still see those to be sort of the right expectations for this year?

    您仍然認為這些是今年的正確期望嗎?

  • Or do you see now with expectations for improved order fill for second half, could those percentages be higher this year?

    或者您現在預計下半年訂單履行情況會有所改善,今年的百分比會更高嗎?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • I think in general, I believe that since we have a very strong position in our customers.

    我認為總的來說,我相信我們在客戶中擁有非常強大的地位。

  • And assuming our customer meets the expectation of the analysts, regarding the growth rate and the demand, probably, our growth will be very similar to these demands in terms of the Heterogenous Integration, HBM, chiplet field.

    假設我們的客戶滿足分析師的預期,關於成長率和需求,我們的成長可能會與異質整合、HBM、chiplet 領域的這些需求非常相似。

  • But we still have OSAT and other type of products that are not expected to grow in this level of 20% to 30%.

    但我們仍有 OSAT 和其他類型的產品,預計不會以 20% 至 30% 的水平增長。

  • So it's going to be eventually an aggregate of this, and in this point, we cannot be very accurate with the number.

    所以它最終將是這些的總和,在這一點上,我們無法對這個數字非常準確。

  • So this is why I believe that we have to wait few more months to be sure or to be more accurate about the growth rate.

    因此,我認為我們必須再等幾個月才能確定或更準確地了解成長率。

  • Brian Chin - Analyst

    Brian Chin - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Fair enough.

    很公平。

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • Brian, let me add one thing.

    布萊恩,讓我補充一件事。

  • And I think I just want to further to what Rafi said and based on your question.

    我想我只是想根據你的問題進一步探討拉菲所說的內容。

  • So, we said in previous calls and meetings that the HBM and chiplet, what we call the high-performance computing section of our business, will be at least 30% of our business in 2024.

    因此,我們在先前的電話和會議中表示,HBM 和 Chiplet,即我們業務的高效能運算部分,到 2024 年將至少占我們業務的 30%。

  • I believe that, this is the case.

    我相信,事實就是如此。

  • It may be even slightly higher.

    甚至可能略高一些。

  • But in the range of these numbers, this is how we see this business for 2024.

    但在這些數字範圍內,我們對 2024 年這項業務的看法是這樣的。

  • Brian Chin - Analyst

    Brian Chin - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • And I heard about China historically has been a good exposure for the company.

    我聽說中國歷來對公司來說是一個很好的曝光機會。

  • Ahead of the 20-F, could you maybe quantify what percent of sales China could represent or did represent in calendar 2023?

    在 20-F 之前,您能否量化一下 2023 年中國可以代表或確實代表的銷售額百分比是多少?

  • And even if you think other areas of your business are going to outstrip the growth rate that you might see out of China and some of the traditional wafer level packaging, are you starting to see a more significant contribution from HBM or chiplet activity in China?

    即使您認為您業務的其他領域將超過中國和一些傳統晶圓級封裝的成長率,您是否開始看到中國 HBM 或小晶片活動的更重大貢獻?

  • Is that in any way embedded in your thinking for 2024?

    這是否已融入您對 2024 年的思考?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • So first of all, the HBM and chiplet business, it's definitely not a Chinese business.

    所以首先,HBM和chiplet業務,它絕對不是中國的業務。

  • And when you talk about it, it's related to the HBM manufacturers , primarily TSMC and Intel, these are the five players in this arena.

    當你談論它時,它與 HBM 製造商有關,主要是台積電和英特爾,這是這個領域的五個參與者。

  • So when we talk about this business, this is definitely business out of China.

    所以當我們談論這個業務時,這絕對是來自中國的業務。

  • Whether there will be similar things in China, it's early to talk about it.

    中國是否會出現類似的事情,現在說還為時過早。

  • When we talk about the business in China, I think the main growth driver there is the OSAT capacity that is being built there.

    當我們談論中國業務時,我認為主要的成長動力是那裡正在建造的 OSAT 產能。

  • And I would say that we -- to give you a number, it's in the mid-40% range for 2023.

    我想說的是,我們——給你一個數字,到 2023 年,這個數字將在 40% 的中間範圍內。

  • Brian Chin - Analyst

    Brian Chin - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Got it.

    知道了。

  • Appreciate that.

    感謝。

  • Yeah, I think there's some talk of maybe a China DRAM player starting to maybe add some -- pursue some advanced capacity, but that's helpful.

    是的,我認為有人談論中國 DRAM 廠商可能開始增加一些——追求一些先進的產能,但這很有幫助。

  • And then the last question, maybe for Moshe, where do you expect gross margins to be in Q1?

    最後一個問題,也許對於 Moshe 來說,您預計第一季的毛利率是多少?

  • And is the company on track for gross margins to still cross back above 50%, maybe by mid-year?

    該公司的毛利率是否仍有望在年中回升至 50% 以上?

  • And is there any particular revenue level that's needed to achieve this, or is that more reflective of normalizing material and product cost, and maybe mix as well?

    要實現這一目標是否需要任何特定的收入水平,或者這是否更能反映材料和產品成本的正常化,或者也可能是混合的?

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • All right.

    好的。

  • So as we said in previous calls, and I will repeat it, we have made tremendous efforts this year to improve the gross margin.

    正如我們在之前的電話會議中所說,我會重複一遍,今年我們為提高毛利率做出了巨大努力。

  • And we said, in the beginning of the year, year 2023 I mean, that we expect gradual improvement.

    我們在年初,我的意思是 2023 年,就說過,我們預計會逐步改善。

  • And indeed, in the last several quarters, we have improved gradually the gross margin.

    事實上,在過去的幾個季度中,我們的毛利率逐漸提高。

  • We are now at 49.2%, and we definitely expect this number to continue to improve in Q1 and beyond.

    我們現在的比例為 49.2%,我們肯定預計這一數字將在第一季及以後繼續改善。

  • And we believe that throughout 2024, we will achieve the 50% target for gross margin.

    我們相信,到2024年,我們將實現毛利率50%的目標。

  • Brian Chin - Analyst

    Brian Chin - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Great.

    偉大的。

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Tom O'Malley, Barclays.

    湯姆·奧馬利,巴克萊銀行。

  • Tom O'Malley - Analyst

    Tom O'Malley - Analyst

  • Hey, guys.

    大家好。

  • Thanks for taking my question.

    感謝您提出我的問題。

  • I just had another one on the order side.

    我剛剛在訂單方面又買了一份。

  • If I do some napkin math here from what you reported in Q3 and Q4, it looks like the run rate of those orders has slowed slightly, and you're saying the mix is a little bit away from the HBM side.

    如果我根據您在第三季和第四季報告的情況進行一些餐巾紙數學計算,這些訂單的運行速度似乎略有放緩,並且您說的混合情況與 HBM 方面有點偏離。

  • It's nice that you guys give clarity, but could you just give me a little more color there?

    很高興你們能提供清晰的訊息,但是你們能給我更多的顏色嗎?

  • Do you guys see order rates slowing or is that just a function of when you're announcing, these results?

    你們認為訂單率正在放緩,還是這只是你們宣布這些結果時的結果?

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Hey.

    嘿。

  • So first of all, Tom, it's a question of decisions from our customers when they make the decisions, at least the main customers.

    所以首先,湯姆,這是我們的客戶(至少是主要客戶)做出決定時的決定問題。

  • So they make a decision that they need the capacity.

    因此他們決定需要這種能力。

  • So in many cases, the order is a little bit ahead of time, and there was no doubt a surge in the orders about two or three months ago.

    所以很多時候訂單都提前了一點,兩三個月前訂單激增的情況無疑是存在的。

  • But still, there is a good, healthy flow of orders.

    但仍存在良好、健康的訂單流。

  • And we usually announce, only when it's a very big order, but definitely the flow and the indications and the pipeline show a very healthy business as we have discussed in the discussion that Rafi just gave.

    我們通常只有在訂單非常大時才會宣布,但正如我們在拉菲剛才的討論中所討論的那樣,流量、跡象和管道絕對顯示出非常健康的業務。

  • Tom O'Malley - Analyst

    Tom O'Malley - Analyst

  • Helpful.

    有幫助。

  • And then as a follow-up, you mentioned the mix of business with the new orders is a little bit lower on the HBM side.

    作為後續行動,您提到 HBM 方面的業務與新訂單的組合略低一些。

  • Could you just give us a status update or a health check on what you're shipping into your customers and where you think they are in terms of capacity?

    您能否向我們提供狀態更新或健康檢查,以了解您向客戶運送的貨物以及您認為他們的產能狀況?

  • Are you still hand-to-mouth, where customers are trying to take everything they can get?

    您是否還在勉強糊口,顧客試圖拿走他們能得到的一切?

  • Or are you starting to get some signals from your customers like, hey, we're getting a little bit closer to what we need right now?

    或者您是否開始從客戶那裡收到一些訊號,例如,嘿,我們離我們現在的需求越來越近了?

  • Any kind of color on those communications on the HBM side would be super helpful.

    HBM 方面的這些通信中的任何顏色都會非常有幫助。

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • So first of all, I didn't mention I don't want to make any indication that our customers are telling us that they have enough capacity.

    首先,我沒有提到我不想表明我們的客戶告訴我們他們有足夠的容量。

  • This is not the case.

    不是這種情況。

  • I think what I did say, and this is important, that the last orders came from -- were more on the OSAT side of the business, other businesses rather than the HBM.

    我認為我確實說過,這一點很重要,最後的訂單更多來自 OSAT 業務、其他業務,而不是 HBM。

  • And the reason for that, and it's important to mention it, yes.

    原因很重要,是的。

  • The HBM and the chiplet is going to be 30% of our business or even a little bit more next year.

    明年,HBM 和小晶片將占我們業務的 30%,甚至更多。

  • There is another healthy 70% aside from this business that we are getting orders and there are many customers.

    除了這個業務之外,還有另外 70% 的健康狀況是我們正在接到訂單,而且有很多客戶。

  • And these businesses are very important.

    這些業務非常重要。

  • Regarding the HBM, I think this was discussed in details in previous calls.

    關於HBM,我想這在之前的電話會議中已經詳細討論過。

  • We received a lot of orders, yes.

    我們收到了很多訂單,是的。

  • And we're getting now clear indications and discussions from customers that we are going to get additional orders for shipment in the second half of 2024.

    我們現在從客戶那裡得到明確的指示和討論,我們將在 2024 年下半年獲得額外的出貨訂單。

  • So if in previous calls we discussed the fact that most of the orders came for the first half, so today we can give an update that this is not only the case, that there is going to be a continuation of orders and installations in the second half of 2024.

    因此,如果在之前的電話會議中我們討論了大部分訂單來自上半年的事實,那麼今天我們可以更新情況,不僅如此,下半年還將繼續有訂單和安裝2024 年一半。

  • Tom O'Malley - Analyst

    Tom O'Malley - Analyst

  • Got you.

    明白你了。

  • Thank you very much.

    非常感謝。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Craig Ellis, B. Riley.

    克雷格·艾利斯,B.萊利。

  • Craig Ellis - Analyst

    Craig Ellis - Analyst

  • Yeah.

    是的。

  • Thanks for taking the question.

    感謝您提出問題。

  • I wanted to follow up on some of the earlier commentary regarding orders and what you're seeing.

    我想跟進一些早期有關訂單和您所看到的內容的評論。

  • So just to clarify, it sounds like what you're saying is, as you look at customer mix and the customer mix you'd expect from the recent trends toward more OSAT and non-HPC, it's back to HPC-related OEMs in the back half of the year.

    因此,澄清一下,聽起來您所說的是,當您考慮客戶組合以及您期望從最近更多 OSAT 和非 HPC 趨勢中獲得的客戶組合時,又回到了 HPC 相關 OEM 廠商。

  • And as you look at what's coming in the back half of the year, since the duration we're talking about really covers technology transitions with HBM to HBM 3E from HBM, and maybe even by the end of the year, activity with HBM 4, can you talk about the potential benefit you may be getting from just volume versus any benefit that might be coming from these tech transitions?

    當你看看今年下半年會發生什麼時,因為我們談論的持續時間實際上涵蓋了從 HBM 到 HBM 3E 的技術過渡,甚至可能到今年年底,還包括 HBM 4 的活動,您可以談談您可能從數量中獲得的潛在好處與這些技術轉型可能帶來的任何好處嗎?

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • All right, Craig.

    好吧,克雷格。

  • So let's go step by step, and just make clear that we all understand.

    所以讓我們一步一步來,明確一下我們都明白。

  • So I think we have talked in previous calls, we had a quite a few orders coming in for the HBM and chiplet's for the first half of the year.

    因此,我認為我們在之前的電話會議中已經談過,今年上半年我們收到了相當多的 HBM 和 Chiplet 訂單。

  • What we are seeing now, there was a concern whether there is an overflow.

    我們現在看到的情況是,人們擔心是否有溢出。

  • There is too much capacity.

    容量太大了。

  • What the update is in talking with customers, we understand today there are going to be additional orders for shipments of HBM and chiplets in the second half of the year as well.

    透過與客戶交談,我們今天了解到,下半年 HBM 和小晶片的出貨訂單也將增加。

  • So from that point of view, we are on track to do at least 30% of our business will come from what we call the high-performance computing, which comprises of the chiplets and HBMs.

    因此,從這個角度來看,我們預計至少 30% 的業務將來自我們所謂的高效能運算,其中包括小晶片和 HBM。

  • And from that point of view, I think the color of those orders we understand them.

    從這個角度來看,我認為我們理解這些訂單的顏色。

  • So this side of the business is healthy.

    所以這方面的業務是健康的。

  • What we've seen is that from the OSATs and the other applications that we have, there is continued addition of capacity.

    我們從 OSAT 和我們擁有的其他應用程式中看到,容量正在持續增加。

  • And the rest of 70% from the orders we have on hand and what we see on the pipeline, we are very confident that this part of the business will be fulfilled this way.

    剩下的70%來自我們手頭上的訂單和我們在管道上看到的訂單,我們非常有信心這部分業務將以這種方式完成。

  • Craig Ellis - Analyst

    Craig Ellis - Analyst

  • And that's really helpful, Ramy.

    這真的很有幫助,拉米。

  • Does that 70% include any benefit from the smartphone market?

    這 70% 是否包括智慧型手機市場帶來的任何好處?

  • The team has done a phenomenal job positioning for HPC, but there was a time when the smartphone market was a much bigger percentage of sales and shipments than it is today.

    該團隊為 HPC 做了出色的工作定位,但曾經有一段時間,智慧型手機市場在銷售和出貨量中所佔的比例比現在要大得多。

  • And there have been signs that the Android market is starting to come back in that leading APU manufacturers like MediaTek are doing some interesting things with AI-related capability, which could be more inspection intensive.

    有跡象表明,Android 市場開始復甦,聯發科等領先的 APU 製造商正在利用人工智慧相關功能做一些有趣的事情,這可能會更加密集的檢查。

  • So what are you seeing out of that end market?

    那麼您從終端市場看到了什麼?

  • And is it one of the things that has you excited about record calendar 2024 organic revenues?

    這是令您對 2024 年有機收入創紀錄感到興奮的事情之一嗎?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • So most of this business will come more from the side of the OSAT business.

    所以這個業務大部分會比較來自OSAT業務方面。

  • That's where we will see.

    我們將會看到這一點。

  • And definitely, we are seeing additional capacity coming into the OSATs.

    毫無疑問,我們看到 OSAT 的產能不斷增加。

  • And it's hard for us to know here who is the end customers and what is exactly the application.

    我們很難知道誰是最終客戶以及具體的應用程式是什麼。

  • But the overall growth in capacity on the OSAT world is positive.

    但 OSAT 領域產能的整體成長是正面的。

  • It's pretty strong.

    這是相當強的。

  • And that's the reason that I mentioned that the last orders came actually from the OSAT and not just the HBM and chiplets business.

    這就是我提到最後訂單實際上來自 OSAT 而不僅僅是 HBM 和小晶片業務的原因。

  • That was the reason for my remarks.

    這就是我發表言論的原因。

  • Craig Ellis - Analyst

    Craig Ellis - Analyst

  • Got it.

    知道了。

  • That's very helpful.

    這非常有幫助。

  • And then lastly, Moshe, just digging into some of the other financial dynamics, as we look near term and through 2024.

    最後,Moshe,我們展望近期和 2024 年,只是深入研究了其他一些金融動態。

  • Can you just talk about operating expense expectations for calendar 1Q, which will include a full quarter of FRT?

    您能否談談第一季的營運費用預期,其中包括整個季度的 FRT?

  • And how should we think about the arc of things from there as we go through the year, as you're investing in new product programs and as you're supporting increasingly diverse growth?

    當我們在這一年裡,當你投資新產品計劃,當你支持日益多元化的成長時,我們應該如何思考事情的發展軌跡?

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • So in terms of operating expenses dynamics, first of all, R&D, we definitely continue to invest heavily in R&D and this will grow pretty much in line with the revenue growth next year.

    因此,就營運支出動態而言,首先是研發,我們肯定會繼續在研發上投入大量資金,這將與明年的收入成長基本一致。

  • In terms of sales and marketing activity, we are working -- we're trying to go more and more direct in order to improve the cost structure.

    在銷售和行銷活動方面,我們正在努力——我們正在努力變得越來越直接,以改善成本結構。

  • And the result of it was performed nicely in Q4, when we were able to show slightly below operating expenses than our model.

    結果在第四季度表現良好,我們的營運費用略低於我們的模型。

  • In terms of 2024, this dynamic will continue.

    就2024年而言,這種動態將持續下去。

  • In the Q1 will include the full consolidation of the FRT expenses.

    第一季將全面合併 FRT 支出。

  • So obviously, the level of expenses will go up slightly, pretty much proportionally to the business.

    顯然,費用水準會略有上升,與業務成正比。

  • And G&A, finally, is one of the areas that we are trying to keep as modest as we can and trying to keep this entity lean and NIM.

    最後,G&A 是我們盡可能保持謙虛的領域之一,並努力保持這個實體的精益和 NIM。

  • So you won't see a major increase in the G&A.

    因此,您不會看到 G&A 大幅增加。

  • So overall, we expect an improvement in the operating expenses in 2024 versus 2023 in the whole year.

    因此總體而言,我們預計 2024 年全年營運費用將較 2023 年有所改善。

  • Craig Ellis - Analyst

    Craig Ellis - Analyst

  • Got it.

    知道了。

  • Thanks, team.

    謝謝,團隊。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • [Tucson Yang, Bank of America.]

    [圖森楊,美國銀行。

  • Unidentified Participant

    Unidentified Participant

  • Hi.

    你好。

  • Thank you for taking our question.

    感謝您提出我們的問題。

  • I'm on behalf of [Tucson], I just have a question on the competitive landscape.

    我代表[圖森],我只是有一個關於競爭格局的問題。

  • You have all these orders coming in this year.

    今年您收到了所有這些訂單。

  • You said 30% HPC, 70% OSATs.

    你說 30% HPC,70% OSAT。

  • What are your market share expectations this year in wafer level packaging against your main competitor?

    與主要競爭對手相比,您今年在晶圓級封裝領域的市佔率預期是多少?

  • And is there a difference in HBM triplet versus OSAT?

    HBM 三元組與 OSAT 有差別嗎?

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • I would say, first of all, we need to look at it in basically two areas.

    我想說,首先,我們基本上需要從兩個方面來看待它。

  • On the 3D metrology, that's an area that we are very dominant.

    在 3D 計量方面,這是我們非常主導的領域。

  • And our technology is the industry standard.

    我們的技術是業界標準。

  • And I would say that most of the major players in the market -- across the market, not just the HPC world. are using our equipment.

    我想說的是市場上大多數的主要參與者——整個市場,而不僅僅是 HPC 領域。正在使用我們的設備。

  • Regarding the 2D inspection, that's an area that we have a very, very competitive technologies.

    關於二維檢測,這是我們擁有非常非常有競爭力的技術的領域。

  • And I think our market share is in the range.

    我認為我們的市場份額在這個範圍內。

  • It is similar to our main competitor.

    這與我們的主要競爭對手相似。

  • Here, there is a vast variety of applications.

    這裡有各種各樣的應用程式。

  • So therefore, the market share is a little bit harder to judge.

    因此,市佔率有點難以判斷。

  • But I can say that we are very, very competitive and we have a significant market share.

    但我可以說我們非常非常有競爭力,我們擁有很大的市場佔有率。

  • It's very hard to put here a number, but it's definitely in the 20% to 30% range and even a little bit higher.

    很難給出一個數字,但肯定在 20% 到 30% 的範圍內,甚至更高一點。

  • Unidentified Participant

    Unidentified Participant

  • Understood.

    明白了。

  • Do you have any expectation of share growth potentially this year?

    您對今年的股價成長有預期嗎?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Share growth, and market share

    份額增長和市場份額

  • --

    --

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • Well, of course, we go into the year expecting to increase our share, but this is a little bit more, I would say, complicated.

    嗯,當然,我們進入這一年預計會增加我們的份額,但我想說,這有點複雜。

  • And I think Rafi discussed it in the prepared notes.

    我認為拉菲在準備好的筆記中對此進行了討論。

  • The way that this market works and especially the HPC world and the advanced packaging in general, this market is changing all the time.

    這個市場的運作方式,特別是 HPC 領域和一般的先進封裝,這個市場一直在變化。

  • And here, we are developing new steps all the time.

    在這裡,我們一直在開發新的步驟。

  • So it's not just looking backwards, can we take a spec from a customer or from a competitor at a certain customer.

    因此,這不僅僅是回顧過去,我們能否從客戶或某個客戶的競爭對手那裡獲取規格。

  • This is less case, this is less on the taking.

    這種情況較少,這種情況較少。

  • Here, what we are trying to do is get as many of the steps of the new steps.

    在這裡,我們要做的就是獲得盡可能多的新步驟。

  • And we have very, I would say, intimate relationship with all the Tier 1 players and our long-term customers.

    我想說,我們與所有一級參與者和我們的長期客戶有著非常密切的關係。

  • And here what we are doing, a lot of efforts, and we are very successful in that.

    我們正在做的事情,付出了很多努力,而且我們在這方面非常成功。

  • And Rafi mentioned that a certain Tier 1 customer, we were able to develop tens of new steps, and obviously, the ones that we develop together with the customer are ones that we will win and will take from our competitors.

    拉菲提到,對於某個一級客戶,我們能夠開發出數十個新步驟,顯然,我們與客戶一起開發的步驟是我們將贏得並從競爭對手那裡奪走的步驟。

  • So I think that we are winning a lot of steps and this will be one of the main reasons for increasing the business in 2024 and beyond.

    因此,我認為我們正在取得很多進展,這將是 2024 年及以後業務成長的主要原因之一。

  • Unidentified Participant

    Unidentified Participant

  • Got it.

    知道了。

  • Thank you so much.

    太感謝了。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Thanks, Tucson.

    謝謝,圖森。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Gus Richards, Northland.

    格斯·理查茲,北國。

  • Gus Richard - Analyst

    Gus Richard - Analyst

  • Yes.

    是的。

  • Thank you for letting me ask a couple of questions.

    謝謝你讓我問幾個問題。

  • Just a follow-on, you did mention tens of new inspections.

    後續,您確實提到了數十項新檢查。

  • I was wondering if you had a sense of how much TAM expansion you got, or you could give us some color on is this for backside power, is it for -- what sort of end applications, not specific, but just in general?

    我想知道您是否知道您獲得了多少 TAM 擴展,或者您可以給我們一些關於這是否用於背面電源的信息,它是否用於 - 什麼樣的最終應用,不是特定的,而是一般性的?

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • Well, we have to be very careful because we cannot disclose information from customers.

    嗯,我們必須非常小心,因為我們不能洩露客戶的資訊。

  • I can say that those steps are in the advanced packaging world.

    我可以說這些步驟屬於先進封裝領域。

  • Gus Richard - Analyst

    Gus Richard - Analyst

  • And TAM opportunity.

    還有 TAM 機會。

  • Is it tens of machines, single digit?

    是幾十台機器,個位數嗎?

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • No, no, no.

    不不不。

  • It's here, at this customer and in other places, you are talking about tens of machines.

    在這裡,在這個客戶和其他地方,你談論的是數十台機器。

  • The potential is very large.

    潛力非常大。

  • And this is why we are so focused on winning new steps.

    這就是為什麼我們如此專注於贏得新的進步。

  • Gus Richard - Analyst

    Gus Richard - Analyst

  • Got it.

    知道了。

  • That's super helpful.

    這非常有幫助。

  • And then just in terms of your ability to supply your customers supply constraints, in slotting.

    然後就你為客戶提供供應的能力而言,在貨位限制方面。

  • Could you give us a little bit of color if orders continue to accelerate, what sort of sequential growth can you deliver?

    如果訂單繼續加速,您能否給我們一些信息,您可以實現什麼樣的連續增長?

  • Are there any inventory constraints, people constraints, in terms of ramping the revenue as we go through the year and into next?

    在我們今年和明年增加收入方面是否有任何庫存限制、人員限制?

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • So I think we discussed in previous calls and we've mentioned that, already, I think, a couple of years ago, we increased our capacity from clean room space and our, I would say, operational capabilities to around, I would say, at least $500 million in revenues.

    因此,我認為我們在之前的電話會議中討論過,我們已經提到,我想,幾年前,我們已經將潔淨室空間的產能和我們的運營能力提高到了大約,我想說,至少5 億美元的收入。

  • So from the longer, I would say, the longest lead time, which is the building itself and the basic clean room space, we have enough capacity.

    因此,從較長的時間來看,我想說,最長的交貨時間,即建築本身和基本的無塵室空間,我們有足夠的能力。

  • Now what we have done, we also increased our inventory in order to meet the potential growth.

    現在我們已經做了,我們還增加了庫存以滿足潛在的增長。

  • And I think if you go back to 2020, during the year when we grew up 70%, we were able to work very closely.

    我認為,如果你回到 2020 年,那一年我們成長了 70%,我們能夠非常密切地合作。

  • We have excellent relationship with our subcontractors.

    我們與分包商有著良好的關係。

  • They have enough capacity to grow if we need to grow certainly beyond our expectations.

    如果我們的成長確實超出了我們的預期,他們有足夠的能力來成長。

  • So we have all the capabilities to grow, and we are very confident that we will be able to supply all the requirements that are out there.

    因此,我們擁有發展的所有能力,我們非常有信心能夠滿足現有的所有要求。

  • Gus Richard - Analyst

    Gus Richard - Analyst

  • Got it.

    知道了。

  • Super helpful.

    超有幫助。

  • Thank you so much.

    太感謝了。

  • Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

    Moshe Eisenberg - Chief Financial Officer

  • Thank you, Gus.

    謝謝你,格斯。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Alon Last, Meitav Dash.

    阿隆·拉斯特、梅塔夫·達什。

  • Alon Last - Analyst

    Alon Last - Analyst

  • Hi.

    你好。

  • Thanks for taking my questions.

    感謝您回答我的問題。

  • Going back to the orders, could you please provide some details about what are the implications of those 300 machines?

    回到訂單,您能否提供一些詳細信息,說明這 300 台機器的影響是什麼?

  • What kind of revenue projection are due to -- only to the current orders, what would we expect in the first and second quarters?

    僅根據當前訂單,我們對第一季和第二季的預期是什麼?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Hi, Alon.

    嗨,阿隆。

  • The orders that we have received in the second half of 300 machines partially were delivered within the second half.

    下半年我們接到的300台機器的訂單,下半年已經部分交貨。

  • But most of them, I would say, close to 70% will be delivered in 2024, mainly in the first half of the year.

    但我想說,其中大部分將在 2024 年交付,主要是在上半年,接近 70%。

  • Our ASP for the machines is around $1 million.

    我們的機器平均售價約為 100 萬美元。

  • So that's the magnitude of the orders.

    這就是訂單的規模。

  • And again, this is a general number, but our ASP is $1 million.

    再說一次,這是一個一般數字,但我們的平均售價是 100 萬美元。

  • So we are talking orders of the magnitude of $300 million.

    所以我們談論的是 3 億美元的訂單。

  • And a big portion of these orders will be delivered already within our guidance of $93 million to $95 million in the first quarter.

    這些訂單的很大一部分將在我們第一季 9,300 萬至 9,500 萬美元的指導範圍內交付。

  • Alon Last - Analyst

    Alon Last - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • And another question.

    還有一個問題。

  • If I look at the -- I mean the operating expenses, it doesn't seem the form factor contributed a lot to the expenses.

    如果我看一下——我的意思是營運費用,看起來外形因素對費用的貢獻並不大。

  • So could you please provide some per forma details about what's the contribution of form factor to the OpEx and also revenues during this quarter?

    那麼,您能否提供一些具體的細節,說明外型尺寸對本季營運支出和收入的貢獻是什麼?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • So we can't get into the level of details between Camtek and FRT.

    所以我們無法深入了解 Camtek 和 FRT 之間的詳細程度。

  • But obviously, they did contribute their share to the operating expenses in the form of two months only.

    但顯然,他們確實只以兩個月的形式貢獻了自己的部分營運費用。

  • Next quarter, the contribution to the expenses will be a little bit higher.

    下個季度,對費用的貢獻會更高一些。

  • Also, as I said, it's harder to provide an exact number because, as I said, we are going more and more direct in terms of sales distribution.

    此外,正如我所說,很難提供確切的數字,因為正如我所說,我們在銷售分配方面變得越來越直接。

  • So the level of sales and marketing expenses that are part of the operating expenses level are coming down.

    因此,作為營運費用水準一部分的銷售和行銷費用水準正在下降。

  • But in general, what is important to say is that what we plan to -- the plan that we plan to integrate FRT fully into our business, our sales people, when I say our, there will be a combined sales team that will say both the Camtek legendary product, as well as the FRT new products.

    但總的來說,重要的是我們計劃將 FRT 完全整合到我們的業務、我們的銷售人員中,當我說我們的時候,將會有一個合併的銷售團隊,他們會說Camtek傳奇產品,以及FRT新產品。

  • Technical support team will support both product lines.

    技術支援團隊將為這兩條產品線提供支援。

  • So everything will be integrated within 2024.

    所以一切都將在 2024 年內整合。

  • Alon Last - Analyst

    Alon Last - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • And last question from me.

    我的最後一個問題。

  • A client had mentioned that they expect a certain pullback in orders from China in the second half or during 2024.

    一位客戶提到,他們預計下半年或2024年期間來自中國的訂單將出現一定程度的回落。

  • What's your projection about the Chinese demand?

    您對中國的需求有何預測?

  • Are we likely to see it stable or decline during the year?

    今年我們可能會看到它穩定還是下降?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • We see a stable demand coming out of China.

    我們看到來自中國的穩定需求。

  • I think the comparison of Camtek with Applied is a little bit misleading because we serve, I would say, first of all, the OSAT world, which is growing very fast on China, trailing edge, fabs.

    我認為 Camtek 與 Applied 的比較有點誤導,因為我想說,我們首先服務於 OSAT 世界,該世界在中國的後緣晶圓廠增長非常快。

  • I think these are the main markets.

    我認為這些是主要市場。

  • And of course, there are small applications, but these are not the segment that Applied is serving.

    當然,也有一些小型應用程序,但這些不是應用材料公司所服務的領域。

  • And therefore, I think the comparison here is a little bit misleading.

    因此,我認為這裡的比較有點誤導。

  • Alon Last - Analyst

    Alon Last - Analyst

  • Thank you very much.

    非常感謝。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Thank you, Alon.

    謝謝你,阿隆。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Joey Chai, Analog Century Management.

    Joey Chai,模擬世紀管理公司。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Hi.

    你好。

  • Can you guys hear me?

    你們聽得到我說話嗎?

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Yeah.

    是的。

  • We can.

    我們可以。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • We hear you Joey.

    我們聽到你的聲音,喬伊。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Yes.

    是的。

  • Yes.

    是的。

  • Thank you so much for taking my questions.

    非常感謝您回答我的問題。

  • So I have more of a housecleaning question here.

    所以我在這裡有更多的打掃房間的問題。

  • So today, like management reported like 300 orders.

    所以今天,就像管理層報告的那樣,有 300 個訂單。

  • But based on like my track, so I think since Q3, the company reported around 240 orders.

    但根據我的跟踪,我認為自第三季以來,該公司報告了大約 240 個訂單。

  • And on December 18, there was another 25.

    12 月 18 日,又增加了 25 個。

  • So I suppose, like on public release, there's like 265 machines.

    所以我想,就像公開發布的那樣,大約有 265 台機器。

  • So I'm just trying to ask like, is there a discrepancy between 300 and the 265 that I see here?

    所以我只是想問一下,我在這裡看到的 300 和 265 之間有差異嗎?

  • Is that rounded on the 10s to the 300 or was it rounded on the single-digit base?

    是按 10 舍入到 300,還是按個位數四捨五入?

  • Like, for example, was around 295 machines, then you guys run it to 300?

    比如說,大約有 295 台機器,然後你們把它運行到 300 台?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • So far, so it's rounded up in a single layer on the scene.

    到目前為止,它已在場景中匯總到一個圖層中。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Understood.

    明白了。

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • But look, what we have discussed is, in the last call, we have mentioned 240 machines if I remember correctly.

    但看,我們討論的是,在上次通話中,如果我沒記錯的話,我們提到了 240 台機器。

  • And since we've got additional orders, and we're already counting them until the end of the quarter.

    由於我們已經收到了額外的訂單,並且我們已經在本季末之前對其進行清點。

  • We did not mention the orders.

    我們沒有提到訂單。

  • So by the end of 2023, we had about 300 orders, 300 machines, some of those 300 were shipped in the second half.

    因此,到 2023 年底,我們大約有 300 個訂單、300 台機器,其中 300 台中有一些在下半年發貨。

  • And a significant portion of it will be shipped during 2024.

    其中很大一部分將在 2024 年發貨。

  • And of course, we are getting additional orders.

    當然,我們正在收到更多訂單。

  • As we speak, it's on a daily basis.

    正如我們所說,這是每天的事。

  • In general, we announced orders when we receive a large order.

    一般來說,當我們收到大訂單時,我們就會宣布訂單。

  • That's the time we make a special announcement.

    那是我們發布特別公告的時候。

  • And from time to time, we discussed it during our calls.

    我們不時在通話中討論這個問題。

  • Did I answer your question, Joey?

    我回答你的問題了嗎,喬伊?

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • 100%.

    100%。

  • Thank you so much.

    太感謝了。

  • Sorry.

    對不起。

  • Yeah, I have one more follow-up.

    是的,我還有一個後續行動。

  • So for the 30% of the revenue in 2024, which is management comment is going to be from like HBM and HPC, like can management comment what's the split between these two?

    那麼,對於 2024 年 30% 的收入,管理層的評論將來自 HBM 和 HPC,管理層能否評論一下這兩者之間的差距是多少?

  • Because based on the comments, it seems like most of it is from the HBM part going forward?

    因為根據評論,似乎大部分都是來自 HBM 部分?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • So Joey, I cannot really make here the distinction, and I don't have it in front of me.

    所以喬伊,我無法真正區分兩者,而且我面前也沒有它。

  • But in general, we talk about the high-performance computing.

    但總的來說,我們談論的是高效能運算。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Yes.

    是的。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • It comprises of the chiplets and the HBMs.

    它由小晶片和 HBM 組成。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Sorry.

    對不起。

  • How about the -- so what would be the split between the chiplets and the HBM?

    那麼小晶片和 HBM 的差異是什麼呢?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • I don't have them in front.

    我前面沒有他們。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • No worries.

    不用擔心。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • So we just bundled them together, because eventually, this is more or less the segment that is really today the growth engine and eventually most of these chiplets need the HBMs around it.

    所以我們只是將它們綁在一起,因為最終,這或多或少是當今真正的成長引擎,而最終大多數這些小晶片都需要圍繞它的 HBM。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Understood.

    明白了。

  • Understood.

    明白了。

  • And another clarification, sorry, this is the last one.

    還有一個澄清,抱歉,這是最後一個。

  • So, yeah, you guys seeing clear indication for the orders in the second half of 2024.

    所以,是的,你們看到了 2024 年下半年訂單的明確跡象。

  • And I assume you guys have much more better visibility also into 2025.

    我想你們對 2025 年也有更好的了解。

  • Can I assume that's also the case?

    我可以假設情況也是如此嗎?

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • No, that's not the case.

    不,事實並非如此。

  • It's not.

    它不是。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • I think, still, 2025, is far enough so we cannot have the visibility.

    我認為 2025 年已經足夠遙遠了,所以我們無法看到。

  • We understand the market.

    我們了解市場。

  • We understand the trends, but when you come to a real backlog, this is beyond the horizon.

    我們了解趨勢,但當你看到真正的積壓情況時,這就超出了視野。

  • Joey Chai - Analyst

    Joey Chai - Analyst

  • Thank you very much.

    非常感謝。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • All right.

    好的。

  • Thank you.

    謝謝。

  • Kenny Green - Investor Relations

    Kenny Green - Investor Relations

  • Thanks, Joey.

    謝謝,喬伊。

  • So that ends the Q&A session.

    那麼問答環節就結束了。

  • And before I hand it back over to Rafi for a concluding statement, I'd like to just let everyone know that in the coming hours, the upload and recording of this call will be available on the Investor Relations of Camtek's website at www.camtek.com. I would like to thank everybody for joining this call.

    在我將其交還給Rafi 進行總結性陳述之前,我想讓大家知道,在接下來的幾個小時內,本次電話會議的上傳和錄音將在Camtek 網站的投資者關係網站www.camtek 上提供。 .com。我要感謝大家參加這次電話會議。

  • And Rafi, please go ahead with your closing statements.

    拉菲,請繼續您的結案陳詞。

  • Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

    Rafi Amit - Chief Executive Officer, Camtek

  • Okay.

    好的。

  • I would like to thank you all for your continued interest in our business.

    我要感謝大家對我們業務的持續關注。

  • I want to especially thank the employees and my management team for the tremendous performances.

    我要特別感謝員工和我的管理團隊的出色表現。

  • To our investor, I thank you for your long-term support.

    感謝我們的投資者長期以來的支持。

  • I look forward to talking with you again, next quarter.

    我期待下個季度再次與您交談。

  • Thank you, and goodbye.

    謝謝,再見。