Camtek Ltd (CAMT) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and good morning. Hosting today's call is Rafi Amit, Camtek's Chief Executive Officer; Ramy Langer, Chief Operating Officer; and Moshe Eisenberg, Chief Financial Officer. Before we start, I would like to note that certain statements made on this call constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Securities Act of 1933 as amended, and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934 as amended and the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

大家好，早安。今天的電話會議主持人是 Camtek 執行長 Rafi Amit、營運長 Ramy Langer 和財務長 Moshe Eisenberg。在開始之前，我想指出，本次電話會議中的某些陳述構成《1933 年證券法》（修訂版）、《1934 年證券交易法》（修訂版）以及《1995 年私人證券訴訟改革法》安全港條款所定義的前瞻性陳述。

Such statements may use terminologies such as believes, expects, will, may, should, anticipates, plans or similar expressions to identify forward-looking statements. Such statements reflect only current beliefs, expectations and assumptions of Camtek. However, actual results performance or the achievements of Camtek may differ materially as they are subject to certain risks and uncertainties. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to, those that are described in Camtek's most recent annual report on Form 20-F and as may be supplemented from time to time in Camtek's other filings with the SEC, including today's earlier filing of the earnings PR, all of which are expressly incorporated herein by reference.

此類陳述可能使用諸如相信、預期、將會、可能、應該、預期、計劃或類似表述來標識前瞻性陳述。此類陳述僅反映 Camtek 當前的信念、期望和假設。然而，由於受某些風險和不確定因素的影響，Camtek 的實際表現或成就可能存在重大差異。此類風險和不確定因素包括但不限於 Camtek 最新 20-F 表年度報告中所述的風險和不確定因素，以及 Camtek 不時向美國證券交易委員會 (SEC) 提交的其他文件中補充的風險和不確定因素，包括今天早些時候提交的收益報告，所有這些文件均通過引用明確納入本文。

Camtek undertakes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements unless required by law. Camtek public filings are available on the Securities and Exchange Commission's website at www.sec.gov and may also be obtained from Camtek's website at www.camtek.com. Also on today's call, we will include certain non-GAAP numbers. For a reconciliation between the GAAP and non-GAAP results, please see the table attached in today's press release, which is also posted in the Investor Relations section of Camtek's website. So with us today, we have Moshe Eisenberg, CFO, Rafi Amit, CEO; and Ramy Langer, COO.

除非法律要求，Camtek 不承擔更新任何此類前瞻性聲明的義務。 Camtek 的公開文件可在美國證券交易委員會網站 www.sec.gov 取得，也可從 Camtek 網站 www.camtek.com 取得。此外，在今天的電話會議上，我們將包含一些非公認會計準則 (GAAP) 資料。有關 GAAP 和非 GAAP 業績的對照表，請參閱今天新聞稿中附上的表格，該表格也發佈在 Camtek 網站的「投資者關係」版塊。今天與我們一同出席的嘉賓包括財務長 Moshe Eisenberg、執行長 Rafi Amit 和營運長 Ramy Langer。

And I would now like to turn the call over to Rafi Amit. Rafi, you may go ahead.

現在我想把電話轉給拉菲·阿米特。拉菲，你可以發言了。

Okay. Thanks, Kenny. Good morning or good afternoon, everyone. Camtek closed the third quarter with revenue of $80.5 million. Gross margin came in at 49%, which is a continued improvement over previous quarters, as we indicated earlier this year. Operating margin was 28%. Over 60% of our revenues came from advanced interconnect packaging applications, which with a significant portion coming from HBM and chiplet modules.

好的。謝謝，Kenny。大家早安，下午好。 Camtek 第三季營收為 8,050 萬美元。毛利率達到 49%，正如我們今年稍早指出的那樣，比前幾季持續改善。營業利益率為 28%。我們超過 60% 的收入來自先進的互連封裝應用，其中很大一部分來自 HBM 和 chiplet 模組。

The remaining 40% is divided between compound semiconductors for power devices, CIS and process control applications. Regarding the war in Israel, I would like to explain how we have managed this situation. About 10% of our employees in Israel are on active reserve duty. The remaining workforce has managed to compensate for their absence. Our facility is quite far from the border, and we have some redundancy in our operations, which is done in 3 different locations. Thus, any risk of interruption is minimized.

剩餘40%的業務分佈在功率元件、CIS（互補金屬氧化物半導體）和製程控制應用的化合物半導體領域。關於以色列的戰爭，我想解釋一下我們是如何應對這種情況的。我們在以色列約有10%的員工正在服現役預備役。剩餘的員工設法彌補了他們的缺勤。我們的工廠距離邊境很遠，並且在三個不同的地點運營，並有一定的冗餘。因此，任何中斷的風險都被降至最低。

Our delivery to customers has not been affected, and we have not experienced any material or supply shortage. So all in all, the war has not affected our operations or business. On October 31, we completed the process of acquiring FRT from 4 factor, and we have begun the integration of FRT into Camtek. We are in the final integration process of FRT, sales and customer support functions into our global organization. The synergy of our products make this process straightforward. We have also started the integration of the other different organizations functions into Camtek, and we plan to expand the facility in order to support potential growth and implement the Camtek workflow into FRT.

我們向客戶的交付沒有受到影響，也沒有遇到任何材料或供應短缺。總而言之，戰爭沒有影響我們的營運或業務。 10月31日，我們完成了從4 Factor公司收購FRT的流程，並已開始將FRT整合到Camtek。我們正處於FRT、銷售和客戶支援職能部門與我們全球組織架構的最終整合階段。我們產品的協同效應使這項流程變得簡單易行。我們也已開始將其他不同組織的職能部門整合到Camtek，並計劃擴建工廠，以支援潛在的成長，並將Camtek的工作流程引入FRT。

Now I would like to add a few words about the business environment. Since the beginning of third quarter, we have reported orders received of about 150 systems. And since then, we have received additional orders for about 90 systems. The last order we reported yesterday was for 28 tools from Tier 1 customer, for HBM and heterogeneous integration applications. Most of the orders are for installation during 2024. This healthy backlog and ordering pipeline point to a year of growth for Camtek, and we expect a record year in sales in 2024.

現在，我想補充幾句關於業務環境的話。自第三季初以來，我們已收到約150套系統的訂單。此後，我們又收到了約90套系統的額外訂單。我們昨天報告的最後一份訂單來自一級客戶，訂購了28套設備，用於HBM和異質整合應用。大多數訂單將在2024年安裝。良好的訂單積壓和訂單管線預示著Camtek將迎來成長的一年，我們預計2024年的銷售額將創歷史新高。

No doubt that our high-performance computing is the bright spot for us. Based on several surveys, the number of chiplets is expected to grow at 35% CAGR in the next 4 years and the HBM at a CAGR of 22%. We have a strong position in this market, so we expect to expand our market share by winning additional inspection and metrology steps together with FRT products. In addition, in some territories, we see demand for other applications that are not related to the high-performance computer, but fueled by mobile phones, server, automotive and other segments.

毫無疑問，高效能運算是我們的亮點。根據多項調查，預計未來四年晶片數量的複合年增長率將達到 35%，HBM 的複合年增長率將達到 22%。我們在這個市場佔據強勢地位，因此我們希望透過贏得更多檢測和計量環節以及 FRT 產品來擴大我們的市場份額。此外，在某些地區，我們看到了與高效能電腦無關的其他應用需求，這些應用程式受到手機、伺服器、汽車和其他細分市場的推動。

We are also enjoying healthy demand from OSAT serving multiple applications. We are greatly encouraged by the number of orders we received for HBM and by chiplet modules to be installed in 2024. At the same time, we are aware of the technological changes soon to be adopted by our customers. We are totally prepared with innovative and creative solutions and will start qualification processes at customers. With respect to Q4, we expect continued organic growth. And with the contribution of FRT, our revenue guidance is $87 million to $89 million.

我們也受益於來自OSAT（面向多種應用的封裝測試與製造）的強勁需求。 HBM訂單數量以及2024年即將安裝的Chiplet模組數量令我們倍受鼓舞。同時，我們也意識到客戶即將採用的技術變革。我們已做好充分準備，提供創新且富有創意的解決方案，並將啟動客戶認證流程。就第四季而言，我們預計將繼續保持有機成長。加上FRT的貢獻，我們的營收預期為8700萬至8900萬美元。

And now Moshe will review the financial results. Moshe?

現在 Moshe 將審查財務結果。 Moshe？

Thank you, Rafi. In my financial summary ahead, I will provide the results on a non-GAAP basis. The reconciliation between GAAP results and the non-GAAP results appear in the tables at the end of the press release issued earlier today. Third quarter revenue came in at $80.5 million, a decline of 2% compared with the third quarter of 2022, an increase of 9% for the second quarter of 2023. The geographic revenue split for the quarter was as follows: Asia, 81%; and U.S. and Europe accounted for the rest 19%. Gross profit for the quarter was $39.4 million. The gross margin for the quarter was 49%, similar to the third quarter of last year and an improvement from the second quarter of this year, which was 48%.

謝謝拉菲。在接下來的財務摘要中，​​我將提供非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 的績效。 GAAP 業績和非 GAAP 業績之間的對帳表已在今天早些時候發布的新聞稿末尾的表格中列出。第三季營收為 8,050 萬美元，較 2022 年第三季下降 2%，較 2023 年第二季成長 9%。本季的地區收入分佈如下：亞洲佔 81%；美國和歐洲佔剩餘 19%。本季毛利為 3,940 萬美元。本季毛利率為 49%，與去年第三季持平，較今年第二季的 48% 有所改善。

As mentioned before, we've been taking measures to improve the gross margin. In the last 2 quarters, we have seen the initial impact, and we expect to see continued gradual improvement in the coming quarters, subject to sales mix. Operating expenses in the quarter were $17.2 million, very similar to the third quarter of last year and to the previous quarter. Operating profit in the quarter was $22.2 million compared to the $23.2 million reported in the third quarter of last year. Operating margin was 27.6% compared to 28.3 million.

如前所述，我們一直在採取措施提高毛利率。過去兩個季度，我們已經看到了初步成效，預計未來幾季將繼續逐步改善，具體情況取決於銷售組合。本季營運費用為1720萬美元，與去年第三季和上一季基本持平。本季營運利潤為2,220萬美元，而去年第三季為2,320萬美元。營運利潤率為27.6%，而去年同期為2,830萬美元。

Financial income for the quarter was $5.7 million, at a similar level to the previous quarter and much higher than the $2 million reported last year. The increase from last year relates to the significantly higher interest rates on an increased cash balance. Net income for the third quarter of 2023 was $25.2 million or $0.52 per diluted share. This is compared to a net income of $23.3 million or $0.48 per share in the third quarter of last year. Total diluted number of shares as of the end of Q3 was 49 million shares.

本季財務收入為570萬美元，與上一季持平，遠高於去年的200萬美元。較去年同期的成長與現金餘額增加帶來的利率大幅上升有關。 2023年第三季淨收入為2,520萬美元，即每股攤薄收益0.52美元。相較之下，去年第三季淨收入為2,330萬美元，即每股攤薄收益0.48美元。截至第三季末，稀釋後總股本為4,900萬股。

Turning to some high-level balance sheet and cash flow metrics. Cash and cash equivalents, including short, and long-term deposits and marketable securities as of September 30, 2023, were $517.1 million. This compared with $506.3 million at the end of the second quarter. I know that in line with the FRT closing in October, our cash balance has decreased by approximately $100 million, which will also affect our interest income. We generated $2.4 million in cash from operations in the quarter. Inventory level was $72.7 million. It went up by $4.4 million over the quarter to support the anticipated sales growth in the coming quarters.

談談一些高層次的資產負債表和現金流指標。截至2023年9月30日，現金及現金等價物（包括短期、長期存款及有價證券）為5.171億美元。相比之下，第二季末為5.063億美元。我知道，隨著10月份FRT的結束，我們的現金餘額減少了約1億美元，這也將影響我們的利息收入。本季度，我們營運產生的現金為240萬美元。庫存水準為7270萬美元。本季增加了440萬美元，以支持未來幾季預期的銷售成長。

The accounts receivables increased to $91.4 million from $79 million in the previous quarter, primarily due to the increasing revenue and the timing of collections. As Rafi mentioned before, we expect revenue of between $87 million to $89 million in the fourth quarter, which is about 7% increase over the fourth quarter of last year. And that we look forward to a year of growth in 2024. We will provide more color next quarter after we announced our Q4 results.

應收帳款從上一季的7,900萬美元增至9,140萬美元，主要得益於營收成長和收款時機的最佳化。正如拉菲之前提到的，我們預計第四季營收將在8,700萬美元至8,900萬美元之間，較去年同期成長約7%。我們期待2024年成長。我們將在下個季度公佈第四季業績後提供更多細節。

And with that, Rafi, Ramy and I will be open to take your questions. Kenny?

接下來，拉菲、拉米和我將願意回答你們的問題。肯尼？

(Operator Instructions) Our first question is going to be from Brian Chin from Stifel.

（操作員指示）我們的第一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Brian Chin。

Maybe to start, Rafi, of the 240 system bookings since the beginning of 3Q, is the right way to think about this as maybe 80% to 90% of that relates to shipments that will occur next year. And also, I think your book-to-bill was probably at least 2:1 in 3Q. So maybe it won't be quite that high, but do you expect the book-to-bill will still be well above 1 in 4Q?

拉菲，首先，從第三季初以來的240個系統訂單來看，或許應該這樣理解，因為其中80%到90%可能與明年的出貨量有關。另外，我認為你們第三季的訂單出貨比至少是2:1。所以也許不會那麼高，但您預計第四季的訂單出貨比仍會遠高於1嗎？

Look, as we mentioned in all the announcement, most of the order we receive are for 2024, okay? And on top of that, I think we don't really discuss any specific we don't ask a specific question about the backlog or about book-to-bill and other type of that. But maybe Moshe can elaborate a little bit about that.

聽著，正如我們在所有公告中提到的，我們收到的大部分訂單都是2024年的，對吧？除此之外，我認為我們並沒有真正討論任何具體的事項，我們也沒有詢問關於積壓訂單、訂單出貨比或其他類型的具體問題。或許Moshe可以詳細解釋。

Moshe, could you add something?

Moshe，可以補充一點嗎？

Yes. Indeed, most of the orders, the 240 machines that we have received so far are for deliveries in 2024. I don't have the exact percentage, but most of it is for 2024 deliveries. With respect to book-to-bill, obviously, in Q3, the book-to-bill was much higher than 1. We are still in the middle of the fourth quarter. So it's still early for me to say whether the book-to-bill this quarter will be greater than 1. But my expectation based on orders that we have received so far, plus orders that we have in the pipeline that, indeed, it will be greater than 1.

是的。確實，我們目前收到的240台機器，大部分的訂單都是在2024年交貨。我沒有確切的百分比，但大部分的訂單都是在2024年交付。至於訂單出貨比，顯然在第三季度，訂單出貨比遠高於1。我們現在還處於第四季中期。所以現在判斷本季的訂單出貨比是否會大於1還為時過早。但根據我們目前收到的訂單，加上我們正在進行的訂單，我預期這個數字確實會大於1。

For calendar ‘24, you stated that this should represent a record revenue year for the company. FRT certainly adds to this. Can you give us an idea of the impact to the model, gross margins and expenses from FRT? And also, how do you plan to integrate the technology into new and existing platforms? And does the acquisition also provide favorable customer synergies?

您曾表示，對24年來說，這應該是公司創紀錄的營收年度。 FRT無疑對此有所貢獻。能否介紹一下FRT對模式、毛利率和費用的影響？此外，您計劃如何將這項技術整合到新的和現有的平台中？此次收購是否也帶來了良好的客戶綜效？

By the way, regarding the acquisition of FRT, I think that in 2024, when we discuss about to integrate to Camtek, we mainly mean in the operation in sales and customer. We don't have any plan right now to start to integrate models from here to there and to come with some new tools. This is not in our priority. Effort has its own backlog for what they did in the last few years. Camtek also have enough backlog. So we believe that 2024 in terms of R&D integration, let's call it, we are not going to put too much focus, but more on the administration, operation and other aspects of the 2 companies to work together as one. This is regarding the FRT and Camtek.

順便說一下，關於收購FRT，我認為在2024年，當我們討論整合到Camtek時，主要指的是銷售和客戶營運的整合。我們目前還沒有計劃整合各種模型，也沒有任何新工具的推出。這並非我們的首要任務。 Effort在過去幾年已經累積了不少訂單，Camtek也累積了足夠的訂單。因此，我們認為，在2024年，就研發整合而言，我們不會投入太多精力，而是會更專注於兩家公司在管理、營運和其他方面的合作，使之成為一個整體。以上是關於FRT和Camtek的整合。

Just to add, you asked about the contribution to the financial model. So I would say the following. We said when we announced the deal that they -- we plan a contribution of around $30 million for FRT next year. And we feel that this is still a good number. For the fourth quarter, their contribution is expected to be pretty much in line with this run rate. And overall, this business is quite profitable, and it's very similar to the profitability metrics of Camtek.

補充一下，您問到對財務模型的貢獻。我想說的是：我們在宣布交易時說過，他們計劃明年為FRT貢獻約3000萬美元。我們認為這仍然是一個不錯的數字。預計第四季他們的貢獻將與目前的營運率基本一致。整體而言，這項業務的獲利能力相當強，與Camtek的獲利指標非常相似。

And then just to clarify, Moshe, you said 4Q in line with the $30 million run rate? Or is that 1Q? Because I guess, 4Q, you only had it for 3 months.

然後，Moshe，我來澄清一下，您說的是第四季符合3000萬美元的營運率嗎？還是說是第一季？因為我猜，第四季度，您只運作了三個月。

So the 2 out of the 3 months is within the run rate. It's only 2 months included in the fourth quarter, correct.

所以3個月中有2個月在運作率範圍內。只有2個月包含在第四季度，對吧。

Our next question will be from Tom O'Malley from Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的湯姆奧馬利。

So I just wanted to just run through Q4 a little bit here. So in the slide like you had on the web this morning, you had 82 to 83 for Q4. So I assume that, that was the organic revenue. And then you're guiding to $88 million, so that would imply a $5.5 million contribution from FRT. Can you just walk through what the exact contributions are in Q4 just because I'm seeing a couple of different numbers here?

我想在這裡簡單介紹一下第四季的情況。今天早上你們在網路上發布的幻燈片中，第四季的銷售額為82到83億美元。我猜這是有機收入。然後你們預期的銷售額是8,800萬美元，這意味著FRT貢獻了550萬美元。能具體解釋一下第四季的具體貢獻嗎？因為我看到幾個數字不一樣。

I'm not sure what the $82 million to $83 million, where this number comes from, but it may be a typo. As I said, our $87 million to $89 million includes some organic growth from Camtek plus contribution from FRT in a level that is pretty much the run rate of the $30 million that we expect next year. So the correct guidance is 87 to 89 million combined with the FRT contribution.

我不確定8200萬到8300萬美元這個數字是怎麼來的，可能是打字錯誤。正如我所說，我們的8700萬到8900萬美元包含了Camtek的部分有機增長，以及FRT的貢獻，這個水平與我們明年預計的3000萬美元的運營率基本一致。所以正確的預期是8700萬到8900萬美元加上FRT的貢獻。

So $39 million run rate, you're going to adjust that for the 2 or 3 quarters. That makes sense. Going into the out year, are you expecting an acceleration of that FRT business? Or is that $30 million still what you're sticking with for the contribution from the acquired business for '24?

所以，3900萬美元的運行率，你會根據第二或第三季進行調整。這很合理。展望明年，你預期FRT業務會加速成長嗎？還是說，你仍然堅持2024年收購業務的貢獻為3000萬美元？

Well, '24, what we said, and we are staying with this assessment that it will be $30 million for '24. Of course, as we learn the business, we will learn it, but that's the expectation as we go into ’24.

嗯，2024年，我們說過，我們維持目前的評估，2024年的收入將是3000萬美元。當然，隨著我們逐漸了解業務，我們會逐漸了解，但這是我們對2024年的預期。

And then lastly, when you guys look at a bookings year traditionally, I would imagine that just given the amount of orders that you guys have, your visibility is a lot better. When you guys say record revenue for '24, is that record revenue fully backed on existing orders today? With the orders that you have in the book, is that already a record revenue year? Or are you expecting some turns business year-over-year to get you above that record revenue?

最後，如果按照傳統方式來看待訂單年度，我想，考慮到你們目前的訂單量，你們的可見度會更高。你們說2024年營收創歷史新高，這個創紀錄的收入是否完全由現有的訂單支撐？以目前已完成的訂單量來看，這已經是創紀錄的收入年度了嗎？還是說，你們預期一些業務的逐年成長將使你們的收入超過創紀錄的水平？

So first of all, the record revenue to date is an expectation. The backlog today that we have on hand still does not support the record revenues, but understanding what we have with the pipeline, talking to customers, our expectation is to be for a record year, very similar to what we said a quarter ago.

首先，迄今為止創紀錄的收入只是預期。我們目前的積壓訂單量仍然不足以支撐創紀錄的收入，但根據我們目前掌握的銷售管道以及與客戶的溝通，我們預計今年的收入將創下紀錄，與我們一個季度前所說的非常相似。

Next question will be from Craig Ellis of B. Riley.

下一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Craig Ellis。

And I also wanted to pass on just the best wishes for operating in a very unusual and war impacted environment and best wishes to the team. So the first question I wanted to ask is around some of the orders that are in hand and some that could come in, there's a lot of attention on both AI-related orders and heterogeneous die and yet there have been parts of the business for industry that had seemed pretty muted this year, whether it's CIS or front end and some other areas.

我也想向大家致以最美好的祝愿，祝大家在非常特殊且受戰爭影響的環境中繼續運營，也祝愿團隊一切順利。我想問的第一個問題是關於一些目前手頭上的訂單和一些可能收到的訂單。大家對人工智慧相關的訂單和異質晶片都給予了極大的關注，但今年工業界的一些業務似乎相當低迷，無論是CIS、前端還是其他一些領域。

So one of the things I wanted to better understand is the degree to which the orders for the 240 systems that you have is really more heterogeneous plus AI versus some of the other applications and areas of exposure that the company has. And then the second part of the question is, to what extent do you think some of the areas that have been more muted this year have potential to emerge as areas of strength next year?

所以我想進一步了解的一件事是，你們現有的240個系統加上人工智慧的訂單，相對於公司其他一些應用和業務領域而言，究竟在多大程度上更加異構化。問題的第二部分是，您認為今年表現較平淡的一些領域在多大程度上有可能在明年成為強勢領域？

So first of all, thank you for the best wishes, Greg. Yes, it's indeed a challenging time, but we'll manage to. So when we look at the business, all in all, I look at the $240 million we're looking forward at what is in the backlog. So we are above 60% of our business is for what we call advanced packaging. No doubt the chiplet and the ABMs by itself is about half of it. No doubt, and this is emerging as, I would say, as a relatively new business. We had this business, but from the volume point of view, it was much smaller.

首先，謝謝你的祝福，Greg。是的，這確實是一個充滿挑戰的時期，但我們會努力克服的。總的來說，當我們審視業務時，我關注的是2.4億美元的預期收入和積壓訂單。因此，我們超過60%的業務來自所謂的先進封裝。毫無疑問，小晶片和ABM本身就佔了其中的一半左右。毫無疑問，這是一個相對較新的新興業務。我們也有這項業務，但從規模來看，規模要小得多。

So indeed, this is an area that will take us to a different level in the business. And this is why really this contribution makes still --give us the expectation for a record dairy next year. Now when we look at the other areas. So on the heterogeneous integration is definitely becoming more and more dominant in the business. We are seeing a lot of business there from OSATs and also from IDMs. That's another portion that is growing in the advanced packaging.

所以，這確實是一個將我們的業務提升到新高度的領域。正因如此，這項貢獻才讓我們對明年的業績預期創下新高。現在，我們來看看其他領域。異質整合無疑在業務中佔據越來越重要的地位。我們看到來自OSAT和IDM的大量業務。這是先進封裝領域另一個正在成長的領域。

And in the advanced packaging, we are also seeing the fan-out is still being dominant in this business. So I think that these 3 areas really make today our advanced packaging business. Now the rest of the businesses are there. I think we spoke about healthy backlog from OSATs and that's lots of applications, advanced packaging, CMOS image sensor, some RF. So they are there. The silicon carbide, and I would say the front end, when we look forward for next year, they're above 20% of our business. So I think these businesses are going to be healthy. It's very hard to give the exact expense of what they do, but definitely, that's in areas that we'll continue to see business.

在先進封裝領域，我們也看到扇出型封裝仍然佔據主導地位。所以我認為這三個領域真正構成了我們今天的先進封裝業務。現在，其他業務也都在那裡。我們之前提到OSAT（封測代工廠）的訂單積壓情況良好，這涉及許多應用，包括先進封裝、CMOS影像感測器和一些射頻（RF）技術。所以這些業務都在那裡。展望明年，碳化矽和前端業務將占我們業務的20%以上。所以我認為這些業務將會健康發展。很難給出這些業務的具體費用，但可以肯定的是，這些業務是我們將繼續看到業務成長的領域。

What is interesting when you look at the FRT business, the FRT business is really in these areas of the silicon carbide and the advanced packaging. So this really strengthened our position there because we are going to do as a company, more steps on the same processes and will be exposed to new opportunities that were in there for us in the past.

看看FRT業務，你會發現一個有趣的現象：FRT業務實際上涉及碳化矽和先進封裝領域。這確實鞏固了我們在該領域的地位，因為我們作為一家公司，將在相同的工藝上採取更多步驟，並將獲得過去存在的新機會。

The second question, maybe more of an operational question, and it's regarding to tool lead time given how significant the recent order activity has been and admittedly, to your point, Rafi, this is vastly for shipment in 2024. But can you just talk about tool lead time shipment times and the company's confidence given how dramatically orders of surge that you can hit end customer shipment windows and capture the order potential.

第二個問題，可能更多的是營運問題，它與工具交付週期有關，因為最近的訂單活動非常多。誠然，正如你所說，拉菲，這主要是為了在 2024 年發貨。但是，你能否談談工具交付週期、發貨時間，以及考慮到訂單激增如此之快，公司對能夠抓住最終客戶發貨窗口並抓住訂單潛力的信心。

So I think that Greg, the fact that these orders we are getting today for 2024, give us enough time to really get prepared. And we do not see any issues with our supply chain. It's very solid. We have the inventory in place. We have the manpower in place and to meet the forecast that we are liking at and the surge in the business that we are forecasting. So from that point of view, we are ready. And I think we have enough, I would say, head on time or we are seeing the things in early enough in the game to make sure that we will have all the material and will be prepared to deliver all the machines on time.

所以我認為，格雷格，我們今天收到的這些2024年的訂單，給了我們足夠的時間來真正準備。而且我們的供應鏈沒有出現任何問題，非常穩固。我們有充足的庫存，充足的人力，能夠滿足我們預期的業務成長和預期的預測。所以從這個角度來看，我們已經準備好了。我認為我們有足夠的時間，或者說，我們能夠提前看到情況，以確保我們擁有所有材料，並準備好按時交付所有機器。

Rafi, you and I have talked on numerous calls in the past about the company's M&A aspirations and FRT looks like a really nicely synergistic fit, and it looks very EPS-accretive intermediate and long term. With that deal now closed and working nicely through integration, does that mean M&A is something that will be off the table for a while? Or how do you think about M&A from here with FRT now in the fold?

拉菲，過去我們多次在電話會議上討論過公司的併購計劃，FRT 看起來非常契合，並且從中長期來看，它對每股收益的增值非常有利。既然這筆交易已經完成，整合工作進展順利，這是否意味著併購計畫暫時不會再考慮？或者，既然 FRT 已經加入，您如何看待未來的併購計畫？

No, it's not off table when we continue searching for potential. But the same as FRT, this is what we call a perfect synergy, okay? And this is definitely one of our preferable M&A consideration to look for a company that it's easy to integrate that there are probably, I would say, the same environment, the same system, not copy exact, but not something that's totally different for what we are doing or if maybe issue that we do not understand very well the market and the potential. So we continue and we're definitely considering more M&A.

不，當我們繼續尋找潛力時，這並非不可能。但與FRT一樣，這就是我們所說的完美協同效應，對吧？這絕對是我們優先考慮的併購方案之一，尋找一家易於整合的公司，它們可能擁有相同的環境、相同的系統，不是完全照搬，但也不是與我們正在做的事情完全不同，或者可能是我們對市場和潛力不太了解的問題。所以我們會繼續，我們肯定會考慮更多的併購。

Our next question is going to be from Gus Richard of Northland.

我們的下一個問題來自 Northland 的 Gus Richard。

As you ramp, do you foresee any capacity constraints? Or maybe a better way to ask the question is where do you need to focus to make sure you have capacity as demand grows?

隨著產能提升，您是否預見任何產能限制？或者更好的提問方式是，您需要關注哪些方面才能確保在需求成長時擁有充足的產能？

You are talking about the capacity here to manufacture, Gus?

格斯，您說的是這裡的生產能力嗎？

Correct, yes. Is it lead times on optics? Is it manpower, floor space, just sort of where would you first run into a capacity constraint?

是的，沒錯。是光學元件的交付週期嗎？是人力、佔地面積，還是其他方面，你們會先遇到產能限制？

So first of all, I think we discussed in previous calls. We have today capacity. We've increased our capacity last year. And today, we have enough capacity for roughly $0.5 billion in sales annually. So the clean room, which is the longest time is there and also the manpower training we have enough. So the rest is really planning. And as I said, because we understand more or less what is going to happen next year, we have backlog already for next year. So we have, we're talking to customers, and we understand what we will need to ship. We have already put in orders for what we need from a material point of view, we have enough inventory on hand for the next few months. So we do not foresee any reason not to ship all of the machines in 2024.

首先，我想我們在之前的電話會議中討論過。我們目前的產能。去年我們增加了產能。目前，我們的產能足以滿足每年約5億美元的銷售額。我們的無塵室（這是運作時間最長的無塵室）以及充足的人力培訓也已到位。剩下的就是規劃。正如我所說，因為我們或多或少了解明年的情況，所以我們已經有了明年的積壓訂單。我們正在與客戶溝通，以了解需要出貨的產品。從原材料的角度來看，我們已經下達了所需訂單，我們有足夠的庫存來應對未來幾個月的需求。因此，我們預計沒有理由不在2024年出貨所有機器。

And then I think in your prepared remarks, I think you're starting to see chiplets expand into auto and I think you said mobile as well. And I'm just wondering if you could talk a little bit more about those opportunities and when you might start to see those impact your backlog or your shipments?

然後，我想在您準備好的發言中，您開始看到小晶片擴展到汽車領域，您也提到了移動領域。我想知道您是否可以再多談談這些機會，以及這些機會何時會對您的積壓訂單或出貨量產生影響？

No, no. I think here in our remarks, what we said that there are other opportunities for business that is not related to chiplets and HBMs, we see opportunities there as well. Our business will be in the range of, let's say, more than 30% for the HBM and the chiplets, the rest will come from the other segments that we serve. So I think today, the market is focused on the chiplet and HBM. This is high-performance computing. I think this is going to what people call AI applications. I think this is today the main application. Definitely, this in 2, 3 years, no doubt, will become the standard in computing in the industry. But I think there is time until we'll get to that point.

不，不。我認為我們在演講中提到，除了 Chiplet 和 HBM 之外，還有其他業務機會，我們也看到了這些機會。我們的業務將佔 HBM 和 Chiplet 業務的 30% 以上，其餘部分將來自我們服務的其他領域。所以我認為，目前市場主要集中在 Chiplet 和 HBM 上。這是高效能運算。我認為這將應用於人們所謂的人工智慧應用。我認為這是目前的主要應用。毫無疑問，在 2 到 3 年內，它將成為行業計算的標準。但我認為我們還需要時間才能達到這一點。

And then the last question for me in terms of demand, obviously, is going up because of unit volume. But I also wonder if you could comment a little bit about inspection times and increasing bump density and then what's happening for how long it takes to inspect the wafer.

關於需求，最後一個問題顯然是由於單位產量增加而導致需求上升。但我想請您談談檢測時間和凸塊密度的增加，以及晶圓檢測時間的變化。

So this is really application dependent, but no doubt. And I think Rafi, you mentioned in the prepared remarks that we understand where the market is going to. So we've talked about the fact that the number of pumps are becoming more the increasing numbers. And obviously, they are becoming denser and smaller. And this will require new capabilities. Some of those capabilities we already have installed with customers. There are new capabilities that we are going to qualify customers. So those capabilities, first of all, will improve the throughput on one hand to address the increase in the numbers of bumps or the density.

所以這確實取決於具體應用，但毫無疑問。 Rafi，你在準備好的發言中提到，我們了解市場的發展方向。我們談到了泵的數量正在增加。顯然，它們的密度越來越大，體積也越來越小。這將需要新的功能。其中一些功能我們已經為客戶安裝了。還有一些新功能，我們將幫助客戶獲得認證。這些功能首先可以提高吞吐量，以應對泵浦數量或密度的增加。

But definitely, all in all, some of these applications, they slow the inspection and metrology time in certain applications. Obviously, I mean, this is the physics of the business and customers are required to purchase more machines. But we are doing on our hands, our best to supply the best ROI in the industry and improving the throughput, the accuracies and everything on our machines.

但總而言之，有些應用確實會減慢偵測和計量時間。顯然，我的意思是，這是業務的本質，客戶需要購買更多機器。但我們正在竭盡全力，提供業內最佳的投資回報率，並提高我們機器的吞吐量、精度以及所有性能。

The next question is from Vedvati Shrotre from Jefferies.

下一個問題來自 Jefferies 的 Vedvati Shrotre。

The first one I had is on the 240 system orders that you have for packaging. Could you help us understand how maybe these converted revenues first half, ‘24 versus second half? Is it more first half later versus second half? Any color there would be helpful.

我收到的第一個訂單是關於你們包裝業務的240個系統訂單。您能幫我們了解一下這些訂單在上半年（24個月）和下半年的轉換收入狀況嗎？是上半年的轉化收入多於下半年的轉換收入嗎？任何具體資訊都很有用。

Vedvati obviously, the orders that we see for '24. So we said most of the 240 somewhere went to Q3 and Q4, some needed quick deliveries. But when we look at next year, obviously, the oldest lean more to the first half, naturally. And in the second half, we have less backlog, but we have an understanding from customers. This is where the pipeline comes into place where people speak with us that they need certain machines in the third quarter or the fourth quarter, some even asked for a certain slot, but they have not issued yet the PO. So moving the pipeline or converting it from a pipeline to orders, definitely, this is what we will be doing in the next couple of months.

顯然，我們看到的是2024年的訂單。我們說這240台機器大部分都到了第三季和第四季度，有些需要快速交付。但展望明年，顯然，最老的訂單自然會集中在上半年。下半年，我們的積壓訂單較少，但顧客也理解我們的意願。這時，訂單流水線就派上用場了。客戶告訴我們，他們在第三季或第四季需要某些機器，有些客戶甚至要求在某個時間段交付，但他們還沒有下訂單。因此，轉移訂單流水線，或將其從訂單流水線轉換為訂單，這絕對是我們未來幾個月要做的事情。

And maybe zooming into that a little bit. So most HBM manufacturers and the chiplet manufacturers have talked about doubling their capacity by 2024. So with these kind of order volumes, do you think they have all the tools they need to achieve that target? Like what is your sense here? And I know the visibility may be limited, but any color here?

也許可以稍微詳細一點。大多數HBM製造商和小型晶片製造商都談到了到2024年將產能翻倍。那麼，面對這樣的訂單量，您認為他們是否具備實現這一目標所需的所有工具？您對此有何看法？我知道目前的情況可能比較有限，但能透露一些細節嗎？

Well, you know what I understand and what we see, we think that they are getting the tools that they need. And I can tell you that if there will be a short and they will feel that they will need additional tools. We have enough capacity and enough inventory in place to manufacture more machines. So I think we will not be the bottleneck if this will be needed, at least from our understanding what we're seeing at least for '24, at least the first half, I think they have enough to us.

嗯，你知道我理解的，也知道我們所看到的，我們認為他們正在獲得所需的工具。我可以告訴你，如果出現短缺，他們會覺得需要額外的工具。我們有足夠的產能和庫存來生產更多機器。所以我認為，如果需要的話，我們不會成為瓶頸，至少從我們目前的情況來看，至少在2024年，至少在上半年，我認為他們有足夠的資源給我們。

And then another question I had was there are some notable desktop chips that are starting to use chiplet architectures, which will start ramping soon. Can you help me understand what this opportunity means for you? Do you think it becomes an opportunity as big as HBM that you're seeing right now?

我的第二個問題是，一些著名的桌上型晶片開始使用 Chiplet 架構，並且很快就會開始量產。您能幫我理解一下這個機會對您來說代表什麼嗎？您認為它會成為像您現在看到的 HBM 一樣巨大的機會嗎？

So that's definitely something that will enlarge our market -- and this is what I think will happen. I think people are starting to use the same architecture, but not adding the HBM. I think this what will happen. Some of the applications of gaming and so forth actually require the HBMs, but many do not need. And this is what I said in one of the questions before, I personally believe that as they run the ATMs, they will get the cost structure, which is today, I would say, one of the limiting factors, but the HBM cost structure will go down with the volume. And then I don't say that it will become standard, but definitely, it will become the, I would say, the preferred architecture for most of the computers. So that's something, and in most cases, the high end becomes the standard over time. And I think this will happen in this case as well.

所以這肯定會擴大我們的市場——我認為未來會這樣。我認為人們開始使用相同的架構，但不添加HBM。我認為這將會發生。一些遊戲等應用程式實際上需要HBM，但很多應用程式並不需要。正如我之前在一個問題中提到的，我個人認為，隨著ATM的運行，他們會獲得成本結構，而這目前是限制因素之一，但HBM的成本結構會隨著產量的增加而下降。我不會說它會成為標準，但肯定會成為大多數電腦的首選架構。所以在大多數情況下，高階架構會隨著時間的推移成為標準。我認為這種情況也會發生在這款產品上。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question is going to be from Vivek Arya from Bank of America Securities.

（操作員指示）我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行證券的 Vivek Arya。

This is [Doug San] on behalf of Vivek. A question on gross margins. I'm curious about your outlook into '24, not looking for a guide, obviously, but what are some of the puts and takes and drivers of margins next year? Could it return to your target 50-plus levels?

我是[Doug San]，代表Vivek。關於毛利率的問題。我很好奇您對2024年的展望，當然不是想找個指引，但明年利潤率的利弊和驅動因素是什麼？利潤率能回到您設定的50%以上的目標水準嗎？

So yes, we said basically that we took certain steps in the beginning of the year. We are seeing the fruits of it starting to affect our gross margin. This is the second quarter or the third quarter actually in a row of improved gross margin. We expect continued improvement gradually. The target is to reach 50% mark. The only give and take here is that it is all subject to sales mix. So in some cases, in some quarters, we have more favorable product mix. And in other quarters, this is less favorable.

是的，我們基本上在年初採取了一些措施。我們看到這些措施的成效開始影響我們的毛利率。這實際上是連續第二或第三季毛利率有所提高。我們預計毛利率將繼續逐步改善。目標是達到50%。唯一的例外是，這一切都取決於銷售組合。所以在某些情況下，在某些季度，我們的產品組合可能會更有利。而在其他季度，情況可能不那麼有利。

So this has also had an impact on the margin. But overall, our target for next year is to be at least 50%.

所以這也對利潤率產生了影響。但整體而言，我們明年的目標是至少要達到50%。

And then could you talk about your order trends outside of AP, maybe some of the visibility in compound semis, Esan mobile phones and automotive have also been encouraging. So I'm curious about your outlook there.

您能否談談亞太地區以外的訂單趨勢？複合半導體、Esan 手機和汽車行業的訂單前景可能也令人鼓舞。所以我很想知道您對這些領域的前景如何。

So in general, our, I would say, advanced packaging, which includes the chiplets, HBM to genus integration and so forth. This is -- I would say, it's about 60% can come up to 65%. Then I would say, the next sizable business is what we call the silicon carbide and the front end. We combine them together. They would come to anywhere 20% to 25%. And then we have a few others, CMOS image sensors have been low lately for the reason that mobile phones are down. So this is more or less a couple of this business with mobile phones. I assume that next year, they will be better. This business can be anywhere between 5% to 10%.

總的來說，我們的先進封裝，包括小晶片、HBM、屬整合等等，佔比大概在60%到65%之間。接下來，我們規模可觀的業務是我們所說的碳化矽和前端。我們把它們結合起來，佔比大概在20%到25%之間。此外，我們還有其他業務，例如CMOS影像感測器最近銷量很低，原因是手機銷量下滑。所以這或多或少是手機業務的一部分。我估計明年情況會更好。這項業務的佔比可能在5%到10%之間。

And then there are RF names, a lot of smaller businesses that will account to the 100%. But if we look at the -- I would say, the strongest driver, no doubt today is on the advanced packaging part, which is the chiplets and the HBMs, and that's no doubt a growth driver that is going to be dominant for the next couple of years at least. And then the silicon carbide and the front end, definitely, this market may be a little bit slower now, but definitely, this is overall the CAGR is in the range of 20% annually, definitely a market with a sizable opportunity.

然後是射頻（RF）領域，許多規模較小的企業將佔據100%的市場。但如果我們看一下——我想說，目前最強勁的驅動力無疑是先進封裝部分，也就是小晶片和高頻寬記憶體（HBM），這無疑是至少在未來幾年內將佔據主導地位的成長動力。然後是碳化矽和前端，這個市場現在可能成長速度會慢一些，但整體而言，複合年增長率在20%左右，絕對是一個擁有巨大機會的市場。

Our next question is from [Ella Pruski of Optimus Funds].

下一個問題來自 [Optimus Funds 的 Ella Pruski]。

One question about the geographic revenue split for this quarter, please?

請問一下關於本季地理收入分佈的一個問題嗎？

So ADR was around 80%, 8-0. And U.S. and Europe was 20%.

所以ADR大概是80%，8-0。美國和歐洲是20%。

Our next question is from Shahar Cohen of Lucid Capital.

我們的下一個問題來自 Lucid Capital 的 Shahar Cohen。

And going back to Vedvati question about the some of the laptop or desktop publication. You spoke about HBA, but I'm not true HBM is applicable to these maybe try to understand as what you meant that HBM would be adopted in laptop and desktop, or you meant the advanced packaging techniques will be adopted in those and given the magnitude of flip-top TPUs compared to, let's say, GPUs Wouldn't you expect a major leapfrog on your advanced packaging next year, giving you another laptop CPU, advanced packaging applications.

回到Vedvati關於一些筆記型電腦或桌上型電腦出版物的問題。您提到了HBA，但我不確定HBM是否適用於這些產品。或許您可以試著理解一下，您指的是HBM將在筆記型電腦和桌上型電腦中採用，還是指先進封裝技術將在這些產品中採用？考慮到翻蓋式TPU與GPU相比的規模，您難道不期待明年先進封裝技術將有重大飛躍，帶來新的筆記型電腦CPU和先進封裝應用嗎？

There are 2 questions, and let me start with the first one. The question that came before is that you see today notebooks and in general, the PCs starting to adapt the chiplet architecture. Now down the road, they will add also HBM. Currently, they are not. I think the only application that I know of in the PC arena, that's using the chiplets and HBM is some gaming applications. So from the structure that's starting to use the structure of the chiplets, which eventually will probably start to use also HBM as well as they need more and more power. But this is still down the road.

有兩個問題，我先從第一個開始。之前的問題是，你看到今天的筆記型電腦以及一般的PC開始採用Chiplet架構。未來它們也會添加HBM。目前還沒有。據我所知，在PC領域，唯一使用Chiplet和HBM的應用是一些遊戲應用。所以從架構上來說，它們開始使用Chiplet架構，最終可能也會開始使用HBM，因為它們需要越來越高的功耗。但這仍然是未來的發展方向。

Now regarding your second question, no doubt there is an opportunity. But the question is how fast it will grow and how fast HBMs will go to other applications other than AI, this is still not clear. And therefore, definitely, as we said, this segment will be more than 30% of our business. I mean this is significantly more than this year, and dramatically bigger than it was a year or 2 ago. So definitely, this is part of the growth, one of the reasons for the growth of contact over the last few years, definitely, that's an area that's going to increase and definitely an area that is a very big potential for us. But how fast it will grow further than what it's going today, it's still hard to say.

關於您的第二個問題，毫無疑問地存在機會。但問題是它的成長速度有多快，以及HBM在AI以外的其他應用領域的發展速度有多快，目前尚不清楚。因此，正如我們所說，這部分業務肯定會占我們業務的30%以上。我的意思是，這比今年增長了不少，而且比一兩年前增長了不少。所以，這無疑是成長的一部分，也是過去幾年接觸成長的原因之一。這肯定是一個會成長的領域，對我們來說絕對是一個潛力十足的領域。但它的成長速度會比現在快多少，目前還很難說。

That looks like it ends the Q&A session. So before I turn the call back to Rafi, just to let everybody know that a recording of this call will be available from the same Zoom link on Camtek's website in the next couple of hours. And Rafi, please go ahead and make your closing statements.

看來問答環節到此結束了。在把電話轉回給拉菲之前，我想先通知大家，本次電話會議的錄音將在接下來的幾個小時內透過 Camtek 網站上的相同 Zoom 連結提供。拉菲，請開始您的總結發言。

Okay. I would like to thank you all for your continued interest in our business. I want to especially thank the employees and my management team for their tremendous performance. To our investors, I thank you for your long-term support. I look forward to talking with you again next quarter. Thank you, and goodbye.

好的。感謝大家對我們業務的持續關注。我尤其要感謝員工和管理團隊的優異表現。對於我們的投資者，我感謝你們長期以來的支持。期待下個季度再次與你們溝通。謝謝，再見。

Thank you.

謝謝。