Camtek Ltd (CAMT) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I would like to welcome all of you to Camtek results Zoom Webinar. My name is Kenny Green, and I'm part of the investor relations team at Camtek.

女士們，先生們，感謝各位的支持。歡迎大家參加 Camtek 業績 Zoom 網路研討會。我叫肯尼‧格林 (Kenny Green)，是 Camtek 投資人關係團隊的一員。

All participants other than the presenters are currently following the form of presentation I'll provide some instructions for participating in the live question and answer session. I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded and the recording will be available on cam Tech's website from tomorrow. You should have all received by now the company's press release. If not, please view it on the company's website.

除演講者外，所有與會者目前均採用演示形式。我將提供一些參與現場問答環節的說明。我想提醒大家，本次電話會議正在錄製中，錄音將於明天在 Cam Tech 的網站上發布。各位現在應該已經收到公司的新聞稿了。如果沒有，請在公司網站上查看。

With me today on the call we have Mr. Rafi Amit, Camtek CEO, Mr Moshe Eisenberg, Camtek CFO, and Mr. Ramy Langer, Camtek COO. Rafi will begin by providing an overview of Camtek results and discuss recent market trends. Moshe will then summarize the financial results of the quarter. Following that Rafi, Masha and Ramy will be available to take your questions.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的嘉賓有 Camtek 執行長 Rafi Amit 先生、Camtek 財務長 Moshe Eisenberg 先生以及 Camtek 營運長 Ramy Langer 先生。 Rafi 將首先概述 Camtek 的業績並討論近期市場趨勢。 Moshe 將總結本季的財務表現。之後，Rafi、Masha 和 Ramy 將回答大家的問題。

Before we begin, I would like to remind everyone that certain information provided on this call are internal company estimates unless otherwise specified. This call also may contain forward looking statements. These statements are only predictions and may change as time passes. Statements on this score are made as of today, and the company undertakes no obligation to update any of those forward-looking statements contained weathers result of new information, future events changes and expectations or otherwise.

在開始之前，我想提醒大家，除非另有說明，本次電話會議中提供的某些資訊均為公司內部估計。本次電話會議也可能包含前瞻性陳述。這些陳述僅為預測，可能會隨著時間的推移而改變。關於此點的陳述截至今日為止，本公司不承擔因新資訊、未來事件、變更和預期或其他原因而更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

Investors are reminded that these forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual events or results to differ materially from those projected including as a result of the effects of general economic conditions. Risk related to the concentration of the significant portion of Camtek expected business in certain countries, particularly China, from which Camtek expects to generate a significant portion of its revenues for the foreseeable future. But also Taiwan and Korea including the risks of deviations from our expectations regarding timing and size of orders from customers in these countries, changing industry and market trends, reduced demand for services and products, the timely development of new services and products and their adoption by the market, increased competition in the industry and price reductions, as well as due to other risks and uncertainties identified in the company's filings with the SEC.

提醒投資者，這些前瞻性陳述受風險和不確定因素的影響，這些風險和不確定因素可能導致實際事件或結果與預測有重大差異，包括一般經濟狀況的影響。這些風險與 Camtek 預期業務主要集中在某些國家有關，尤其是中國，Camtek 預計在可預見的未來將從中國/地區產生很大一部分收入。此外，還有台灣和韓國的風險，包括這些國家/地區客戶訂單的時間和規模與我們預期不符的風險、行業和市場趨勢的變化、服務和產品需求的減少、新服務和產品的及時開發及其被市場採用、行業競爭加劇和價格下降，以及公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中確定的其他風險和不確定因素。

Please note that the safe harbor statements in today's press release also covers the contents of this conference call. In addition, during this call, certain non-GAAP financial measures will be discussed. These are used by management to make strategic decisions, forecast future events and results and evaluate the company's current performance. Management believes that the presentation of non-GAAP financial measures are useful to investors understanding and assessment of the company's ongoing corporations and prospects of the future. A full reconciliation of non-GAAP to GAAP financial measures are included in today's earnings release.

請注意，今日新聞稿中的安全港聲明也涵蓋了本次電話會議的內容。此外，本次電話會議也將討論某些非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 財務指標。管理層使用這些指標來制定策略決策、預測未來事件和業績，並評估公司當前業績。管理階層認為，非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 財務指標的呈現有助於投資者了解和評估公司持續經營狀況和未來前景。今日的收益報告中已包含非公認會計準則 (non-GAAP) 和公認會計準則 (GAAP) 財務指標的完整對照表。

And with that, I'd now like to hand the call over to Rafi Amit, Camtek CEO.

現在，我想將電話交給 Camtek 執行長 Rafi Amit。

Thanks, Kenny. Good morning or good afternoon everyone. Camtek ended another quarter of continued revenue growth, fourth quarter revenues were a record of $82 billion 11% increase year over year. Gross Margin came in at 49% and operating margin at 27.8%. Over 60% of our revenues came from advanced interconnect packaging applications. Front end and compound semi segments accounted for about 20% of our revenues. The total revenues for 2022 was a record of $321 million, 19% growth year over year. This is the fifth year in a row with record revenues. In the last two years we more than doubled our revenues and tripled our operating profit. In 2022. We continue to expand our customer base. We now have over 250 active customers and we have added more than 50 new customers, so we expect them to contribute significantly to future revenues. The company's diversified exposure to multiple customer secular trend and territories contributed to our success. We have met manage to increase our business in the true genius integration segment, which serve the high-performance computing and in addition, it has partly been qualified for the next generation DRAM products. We expect these two applications to continue to contribute significant revenues in 2023.

謝謝，肯尼。大家早安或下午好。 Camtek 結束了另一個持續營收成長的季度，第四季營收創紀錄地達到 820 億美元，年增 11%。毛利率為 49%，營業利益率為 27.8%。我們超過 60% 的收入來自先進的互連封裝應用。前端和複合半導體部門約占我們收入的 20%。 2022 年的總收入創紀錄地達到 3.21 億美元，年增 19%。這是連續第五年創下收入紀錄。在過去兩年中，我們的收入成長了一倍多，營業利潤成長了兩倍。在 2022 年，我們將持續擴大客戶群。我們現在擁有超過 250 個活躍客戶，並且增加了 50 多個新客戶，因此我們預計他們將為未來的收入做出重大貢獻。公司對多個客戶、長期趨勢和地區的多元化投資為我們的成功做出了貢獻。我們已成功實現在真正天才整合領域的業務成長，該領域服務於高效能運算，部分產品已獲得下一代DRAM產品的認證。我們預計這兩個應用領域將在2023年繼續貢獻可觀的收入。

Compound semiconductor and specifically silicon carbide market continues to grow rapidly. And we have been able to win several inspection steps at several different customers. Last week, as reported few weeks ago, was a tier one manufacturer for an order totaling of $18 million for multiple machines to be installed in 2023 and 2024. In 2022, we have developed several new products and technologies, which we plan to introduce in 2023. We anticipate it will further increase our market position and expand our capabilities in entering new market segments.

複合半導體，尤其是碳化矽市場持續快速成長。我們已贏得多家客戶的多項檢測服務。正如幾週前報道的那樣，上週我們與一家一級製造商簽訂了一份總額為1800萬美元的訂單，用於在2023年和2024年安裝多台設備。 2022年，我們開發了多項新產品和新技術，並計劃於2023年推出。我們預計這將進一步提升我們的市場地位，並增強我們進入新細分市場的能力。

Looking at 2023, global economic growth is projected to slow down thus affecting wafer fab equipment in general, and specifically the memory segment. Also regarding the new US restrictions on China's semiconductor industry from few months ago, we have yet to see how it influences the industry. After three years in which the entire production supply chain was disrupted, 2023 is expected to be a challenging year, with customers being more cautious and hesitant in increasing production capacity before receiving orders from their end user. However, we are also receiving positive signal from several customers regarding expected improvement in the second half of 2023. We believe that our leading position into specific segments broad and diversified customers base and long-term strategic relationships with customers will enable us to again outperform the wafer fabrication equipment, which is predicted to decline by 20 to 30% in 2023.

展望2023年，全球經濟成長預計將放緩，進而對晶圓廠設備，尤其是記憶體領域產生整體影響。此外，幾個月前美國對中國半導體產業實施的新限制，我們尚未看到其對該產業的影響。在整個生產供應鏈中斷三年之後，預計2023年將是充滿挑戰的一年，客戶在收到最終用戶訂單之前，在增加產能方面會更加謹慎和猶豫。然而，我們也從一些客戶那裡得到了正面的訊號，預計2023年下半年情況會有所改善。我們相信，憑藉我們在特定領域的領先地位、廣泛而多元化的客戶群以及與客戶的長期戰略關係，我們將再次超越晶圓製造設備行業，預計2023年晶圓製造設備行業將下降20%至30%。

Regarding the first quarter, we estimate the sales to be approximately $71 to $74 million, which represents a decline of 6% year over year and 12% sequentially at the midpoint, after doubling sales in the last two years, while focusing on supplying systems on time and providing a good response to customers we now focus on a company's efficiency. Also we are carefully monitoring certain balance sheet items, such as inventory levels, and account receivable. We are adjusting our expenses in headcount to the current demands. Moshe, we will address our plan in more details. I would like to conclude by stating that the semiconductor is a strategic industry and all leading countries are heavily invested in it.

關於第一季度，我們預期銷售額約為7,100萬至7,400萬美元，年減6%，較上季下降12%。在過去兩年銷售額翻倍之後，我們不僅專注於按時交付系統並為客戶提供良好的回應，現在更注重公司效率。此外，我們正在密切監控某些資產負債表項目，例如庫存水準和應收帳款。我們正在根據當前需求調整員工人數。 Moshe，我們將更詳細地介紹我們的計劃。最後，我想指出，半導體是一個戰略性產業，所有主要國家都對其投入了大量資金。

I would like to hand over to Moshe for more detailed discussion of the financial result. Moshe.

我想把時間交給 Moshe，讓他更詳細地討論財務結果。 Moshe。

Thank you, Rafi. In my financial summary ahead, I will provide the results on a non-GAAP basis. The reconciliation between the GAAP results and the non-GAAP results appears in the tables at the end of the press release issued earlier today.

謝謝拉菲。在接下來的財務摘要中，​​我將提供非公認會計準則 (Non-GAAP) 的績效。 GAAP 業績和非 GAAP 業績的對帳表已在今天早些時候發布的新聞稿末尾的表格中列出。

Fourth quarter revenues came at a record $82.2 million, an increase of 11% compared with the fourth quarter of 2021 and slightly more than the previous quarter. Revenues for the whole year w3ere a record of $321 million, 19% increase year over year. The geographic revenue split for the quarter was as follows, Asia 80%, in USA and Europe accounted for 20%, gross margin for the quarter was $40.2 million. The gross margin for the quarter was 49% versus 50.9% in the fourth quarter of last year, in the same as in the previous quarter. In line with our previous guidance range.

第四季營收創紀錄達8,220萬美元，較2021年第四季成長11%，略高於上一季。全年營收創紀錄達3.21億美元，年增19%。本季各地區收入分佈如下：亞洲佔80%，美國及歐洲各佔20%。本季毛利率為4020萬美元。本季毛利率為49%，去年第四季為50.9%，與上一季持平。符合我們之前的預期範圍。

We continue to experience inflationary pressure on raw material and labor which cannot fully passed on to customers. However, we are taking steps to mitigate this impact by improving our efficiencies in cost as a result improve our gross margin over the mid to long term.

我們持續面臨原材料和勞動力的通膨壓力，而這些壓力無法完全轉嫁給客戶。不過，我們正在採取措施，透過提高成本效率來緩解這一影響，從而提高中長期的毛利率。

Operating expenses in the quarter were $17.4 million difference compared with $16.8 million in the fourth quarter of last year and $17 million reported in the previous quarter. Operating profit in the quarter was $22.8 million compared to $23.2 million in Q3 and $20.9 million reported in the fourth quarter of last year. Operating margin was 28% Similar to the previous quarter and to the fourth quarter of last year.

本季營運費用為 1,740 萬美元，而去年第四季為 1,680 萬美元，上一季為 1,700 萬美元。本季營運利潤為 2,280 萬美元，而第三季為 2,320 萬美元，上一季為 2,090 萬美元。營運利潤率為 28%，與上一季和去年第四季持平。

Financial income for the quarter was $3.8 million compared to its $2 million in Q3 and $200,000 last year. The majority of the increase relates to significantly higher interest rates on our deposits on an increased cash balance. We expect the financial income to continue to increase throughout 2023 as the interest rates remain high.

本季財務收入為380萬美元，而第三季為200萬美元，去年為20萬美元。成長的主要原因是現金餘額增加，導致存款利率大幅上升。我們預計，由於利率維持高位，2023年全年財務收入將持續成長。

Net income for the fourth quarter of 2022 was $24 million or 50 cents per diluted share. This is compared to a net income of $19.7 million or 40 cents per share in the fourth quarter of last year. So diluted number of shares as of the end of Q4 was $48.3 million.

2022年第四季淨利為2,400萬美元，即每股攤薄收益50美分。相較之下，去年第四季淨利為1,970萬美元，即每股攤薄收益40美分。因此，截至第四季末，攤薄後股本為4,830萬美元。

Turning to some high-level balance sheet and cash flow metrics. So total cash including cash equivalents, short- and long-term deposits, as of December 31, 2022 was $479 million. During the fourth quarter we had a strong positive cash flow and we generated $19.9 million in cash from operations. And altogether for the year we have generated $57 million. Accounts receivable increased to $80 million in the quarter primarily due to the timing of revenue and collection within the quarter. There is outstanding for Q4, we're 90 days. Since the beginning of the year. We experienced strong collection and we expect the account receivable balance to come down by the end of Q1. Inventory level was $70.9 million and it went down by $3.9 million over the quarter. In the last few years, we increase the inventory in order to support the growth especially in light of the supply chain issues. The reduction this quarter is in line with our target to optimize the inventory level given the new business environment.

談談一些高層次的資產負債表和現金流指標。截至2022年12月31日，包括現金等價物、短期及長期存款在內的現金總額為4.79億美元。第四季度，我們的現金流強勁，營運活動產生了1,990萬美元的現金。全年我們總共創造了5700萬美元的現金。本季應收帳款增至8,000萬美元，主要是由於本季營收和回款的時間安排。第四季的未收帳款，自年初以來已逾期90天。我們的回款情況強勁，預計應收帳款餘額將在第一季末下降。庫存水準為7,090萬美元，本季減少了390萬美元。過去幾年，我們一直在增加庫存以支持成長，尤其是在供應鏈問題的影響下。本季的庫存減少符合我們在新的商業環境下優化庫存水準的目標。

Moving to the guidance, in Q1 we expect revenue in the range of $71 to $74 million. Our gross margin is affected by the business volume and the increase in the Bill of Material resulting from the supply chain issues, inflation and labor costs. We therefore expect gross margin to be around 48% in Q1. Our focus in the last few years was on meeting the phenomenal growth. In order to improve the gross margin this year. We plan to focus on cost reduction through engineering and design optimizations and supply chain initiatives. These steps take time and we anticipate that they will assist us in gradually improving our margin over the coming quarters. We continue to invest in R&D to meet our customer road maps and be well positioned for growth. However, we are adjusting all other operating expenses to the current revenue level in order to move us closer to our target operating model when growth returns to our markets. The current strength of the U.S. dollar versus the Israeli shekel is helping our current operating experience levels as well.

展望未來，我們預計第一季營收將在7,100萬美元至7,400萬美元之間。我們的毛利率受到業務量以及供應鏈問題、通貨膨脹和勞動成本所導致的物料清單增加的影響。因此，我們預計第一季的毛利率將在48%左右。過去幾年，我們的重點是實現驚人的成長。為了提高今年的毛利率，我們計劃透過工程和設計優化以及供應鏈計劃來降低成本。這些措施需要時間，我們預計它們將幫助我們在未來幾季逐步提高利潤率。我們將繼續在研發方面投入，以滿足客戶路線圖的需求，並為成長做好準備。然而，我們正在根據當前的收入水準調整所有其他營運支出，以便在市場恢復成長時更接近目標營運模式。目前美元兌以色列謝克爾的強勢也有助於我們提升目前的營運經驗水準。

I would like to highlight the contribution of our cash reserve on our results. We have close to $0.5 billion in cash that enjoys the increasing interest rates and puts us in an excellent position to grow inorganically, and we are actively looking at opportunities.

我想強調一下現金儲備對我們業績的貢獻。我們擁有近5億美元的現金，這些現金受益於不斷上升的利率，使我們處於有利的外部成長地位，我們正在積極尋找機會。

With that, Rafi, Ramy and myself will be happy to take your questions. Kenny?

有了這些，拉菲、拉米和我很樂意回答你們的問題。肯尼？

Thank you, Moshe. (Operator Instructions) Okay. Our first question will be from [Blayne Curtis] from Barclays.

謝謝，Moshe。 （操作員指示）好的。我們的第一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的[Blayne Curtis]。

This is Thomas O’malley, I'm not sure what happened with the Q in there. But I just wanted to understand in the December quarter, you normally give a breakout by end market from a percentage perspective of what contributed to the revenue. Could you just break it down between advanced packaging? I know you said greater than 60%, but any more granular, it would be great. Compound semi front-end CMOS image sensing and then other? Just any granularity there would be really helpful.

我是Thomas O'malley，我不確定Q是怎麼回事。但我只是想了解一下，在12月季度，您通常會按終端市場，以百分比的形式，列出各部分對收入的貢獻。您能否依先進封裝來細分一下？我知道您說的是超過60%，但如果能更詳細一點就更好了。複合半前端CMOS影像感測，以及其他方面？任何細節都會很有幫助。

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

Just for the quarter.

限本季。

Okay. Hi, Blyane. So this quarter...

好的。嗨，布萊恩。所以這個季度…

Its Tom.

是湯姆。

Tom.

湯姆。

Its Tom. Sorry. Hi, this is Ramy. So if we look at the fourth quarter, our advanced packaging came close to 67%. This is the mix of the orders. Overall, if we look at the yearly basis, it's about 60% our compound and front-end business, they were together just about 20%. And then there were a few others. The CMOS image sensors this year is a little bit lower than other years. And this is for the reason of the sales of mobile phones so it ended up about 6%. And then there are a few small items. Okay.

我是湯姆，抱歉。嗨，我是拉米。如果我們看一下第四季度，我們的先進封裝業務佔比接近67%。這是訂單構成。整體而言，如果我們按年來看，我們的化合物和前端業務約佔60%，它們加起來約佔20%。然後還有其他一些業務。今年的CMOS影像感測器業務比往年略低。這是由於手機銷售的原因，所以最終佔比約為6%。然後還有一些小項目。好的。

So 6% was for the full year, you're saying or 6% for the December quarter?

那麼，您說的 6% 是全年的 6%，還是 12 月季度的 6%？

December quarter in overall this year was around 6%. The CMOS image sensors, as we anticipated was lower than usual, our usual 10% for this segment.

今年12月季度整體成長率約為6%。 CMOS影像感測器的成長率與預期一致，低於往年，該部門的成長率通常為10%。

And then you guys are making some comments about the full year. You're saying you think you'll do better than broad-based WFE, but you're also saying, hey, the second half is going to be stronger than the first half. Could you just help identify which end markets are going to be weaker in the March and June quarter? And how should we think about what June should look like off of March given the fact that it sounds like June is the bottom for you guys? And how extreme should that look?

然後，你們對全年業績發表了一些評論。你們說你們認為你們的業績會比基礎廣泛的WFE更好，但你們也說，嘿，下半年會比上半年更好。您能否幫忙分析一下，哪些終端市場在3月和6月季度會表現較弱？考慮到6月聽起來像是你們業績的底部，我們該如何看待6月的業績？這個底部應該有多大？

So first of all, we didn't say that June is going to be anything about Juno talk in a minute about what we are seeing beyond Q1. But let's talk about the segments. So the segments are going to be similar next year. I'm expecting and as I look at our backlog and the pipeline, advanced packaging is going to be very strong next year coming from the erogenous integration, a lot of them move for DRAMs to high-bandwidth memories, this is also going to contribute significant revenues. Silicon carbide is going to be strong. And the overall other markets are going to be okay.

首先，我們並沒有說六月會有什麼關於Juno的討論，稍後我們會談到第一季之後的情況。我們先來談談細分市場。明年各個細分市場的情況會比較類似。我預計，而且根據我們的積壓訂單和產品線來看，先進封裝明年將會非常強勁，這得益於性感的集成，其中許多產品將轉向從DRAM到高頻寬記憶體，這也將貢獻可觀的收入。碳化矽將會表現強勁。整體而言，其他市場也會表現良好。

So from the segmentation point of view, we don't see anything different. Keep in mind that we have 250 customers that helps us a lot in balancing the business, and we've acquired 50 new customers this year. They expecting that some of them will buy additional equipment in 2023. So this will give us a balance for us. But looking at Q2 and beyond in the entire year of '20 and '23, we have a solid backlog and a solid pipeline. Now you have to remember that we are working in a dynamic environment. Things are changing. We did not get any major cancellations. However, there is more hesitancy than before. So therefore, it is too early to give a forecast for Q2 or even talk about the rest of the year. But as we said in our prepared remarks, we expect to outperform our market segment.

因此，從細分市場的角度來看，我們並沒有發現任何變化。請記住，我們擁有250個客戶，這對我們平衡業務有很大幫助，而且我們今年還獲得了50個新客戶。他們預計其中一些客戶將在2023年購買更多設備。這將幫助我們實現業務平衡。但展望第二季及以後，以及2020年和2023年全年，我們擁有穩固的訂單儲備和穩定的產品線。現在你必須記住，我們正處於一個充滿活力的環境。情況正在改變。我們沒有收到任何重大訂單取消。然而，現在人們的猶豫比以前更多了。因此，現在對第二季度做出預測，甚至談論今年剩餘時間的表現都為時過早。但正如我們在準備好的演講稿中所說，我們預計業績將超越我們的細分市場。

Our next question will be from [Charles Shi] from Needham.

我們的下一個問題來自尼德姆的 [Charles Shi]。

I want to ask a bit about the gross margin. It seems like you are facing some inflationary cost pressure and taking action to address those and you actually guided down the first quarter gross margin bias edge. My question is, I think historically, it's not just a volume that -- and also the cost input that influence your margin, I think your product mix sometimes play a bigger role. I know you didn't really talk about product mix in '23, but is there a favorable or unfavorable mix that could be, I mean, a positive or negative to gross margin for the full year in '23 because you have good backlog. I think you have some visibility into the mix.

我想問一下毛利率。看起來你們正面臨一些通膨成本壓力，並正在採取措施應對，實際上你們已經降低了第一季毛利率的偏差。我的問題是，我認為從歷史上看，影響你們利潤率的不僅僅是銷量，還有成本投入，我認為你們的產品組合有時會發揮更大的作用。我知道你們在2023年並沒有真正談論產品組合，但是是否存在有利或不利的產品組合，我的意思是，由於你們有充足的積壓訂單，對2023年全年的毛利率產生正面或負面影響？我認為你們對產品組合有一定的了解。

So I would say the following, yes, you are right. Product mix has a lot to do with the gross margin as well, but we decided to focus this time on the cost structure because we see some pressure on gross margin from the cost elements. We see some increase in the bill of material, both from components, labor cost. And altogether, we see some pressure.

所以我想說的是，是的，你說得對。產品組合也與毛利率有很大關係，但我們這次決定專注於成本結構，因為我們看到成本因素對毛利率造成了一些壓力。我們看到物料清單增加，包括零件和人力成本。總的來說，我們看到了一些壓力。

So yes, product mix in may have a positive impact. I think that the 48% that we gave as the guidance should play as a bottom. And we can -- we may see over the year some improvement coming also from the initiatives that we are already taking. And as I said, it may take time, but we expect to see some impact already in the second half of the year. And also from the product mix that might be more favorable than we're currently seeing.

所以，產品組合確實可能會產生正面的影響。我認為我們給出的48%的預期應該會起到底部作用。而且，我們或許還能看到，今年我們已經採取的措施也會帶來一些改善。正如我所說，這可能需要時間，但我們預計下半年就能看到一些影響。產品組合也可能比目前更有利。

Maybe the second question, I really want to go back to the question asked by Tom earlier. On the full year -- what we think about the segment mix is going to be. I think you said it's quite similar, but I also heard you say advanced packaging, which includes memory DRAM seems to be doing well this year. And should we kind of expect that vast packaging as a percentage in your mix, maybe it's growing a bit this year with others? You said that they are okay, but I don't hear that they are going to be -- I don't hear like the conviction from you that they're going to be as great as the advanced packaging segment for you?

第二個問題，我想回到Tom之前提出的問題。就全年而言，我們對細分市場組合的預期是如何的？我想您之前說過情況很類似，但我也聽到您說包括內存DRAM在內的先進封裝今年似乎表現不錯。我們是否應該預期，今年大尺寸封裝在你們產品組合中的佔比會有所成長？也許今年它會和其他產品一起成長？您之前說它們還不錯，但我沒有聽到您說它們會像先進封裝那樣出色？

We rented -- I talked about the segmentation I didn't talk about the forecast that was the second part where I said we can -- and we're not in a position today to do any focus above, let's say, beyond the first quarter that we have already stated. Regarding the mix whether the advanced packaging will be a little bit more than 6%. It's still too early to say, but it's definitely we see in the backlog and the pipeline that this is going to play a major part of our business, continue to be a major part of our business and it will be, I would say, at least 60%, whether it will be significantly more as the fourth quarter, I still don’t know.

我們租賃業務——我談到了細分市場，但沒有談到預測，那是在第二部分，我說過我們可以——目前我們無法對第一季以外的業務進行任何關注，比如說，我們已經聲明過的第一季之後的業務。至於產品組合，先進封裝業務是否會略高於6%。現在下結論還為時過早，但我們肯定會從積壓訂單和產品線中看到，先進封裝業務將在我們的業務中扮演重要角色，並且將繼續佔據重要地位，我想至少會達到60%。至於到第四季度，先進封裝業務是否會大幅成長，我還不確定。

Maybe the last one. I really, I want to ask you about the geographical mix. What you're seeing today based on your order book, Asia Pacific versus U.S., Europe, do you see that mix kind of changing to ‘23? Maybe Asia Pacific may be growing a little bit faster]in '23 relative to U.S. and Europe, or do you see the other way around?

也許是最後一個問題。我真的想問您關於地域分佈的問題。根據您今天的訂單情況，亞太地區與美國、歐洲的對比情況，您認為這種分佈在2023年會有所變化嗎？也許2023年亞太地區的成長速度會比美國和歐洲更快一些，還是您認為情況正好相反？

No, I don't think there is going at this stage, at least what we see in the current numbers in our plans. I think that the Asia 80% versus U.S. and Europe, 20%, I think at this stage, we expect this to stay.

不，我認為目前階段不會出現這種情況，至少從我們計劃中的現有數據來看是如此。我認為亞洲佔80%，美國和歐洲各佔20%，我認為目前我們預計這種情況會持續下去。

Our next question will be from Auguste Richard from Northland.

我們的下一個問題來自北地的奧古斯特·理查德 (Auguste Richard)。

I was just wondering if you could talk about sort of where you're slotting tools at this point? How much has that lead time compressed and just any general thoughts around that?

我想知道您能否談談目前您們的刀具供應情況？交貨週期壓縮了多少？您對此有什麼看法？

The main issue, and I think we spoke about it also in the last call, what we see today that customers are very hesitant in turning the pipeline into (inaudible) or even scheduling the shipment time. And the reason for that, they are waiting to see that their end customers are giving their business. And as a result, we've seen our lead times go down from about, I would say, 4 to 6 months, coming down to something like 3 to 4 months. And just I would give you these are the rough numbers. So definitely, this is the reason that from our point of view, it's very hard today to forecast beyond the first quarter.

主要問題是，我想我們在上次電話會議中也討論過，我們現在看到的是，客戶在將產品線轉化為（聽不清楚）甚至安排發貨時間方面非常猶豫。原因是他們在等待最終客戶是否願意做生意。結果，我們的交貨週期從大約4到6個月縮短到了3到4個月左右。這些只是粗略的數字。所以，從我們的角度來看，現在很難預測第一季之後的業績，這無疑是個原因。

And then you mentioned in your prepared comments about some new products, and I was just wondering if you could give a little more color in terms of expansion of market opportunity or any color on the types of applications you're going to be addressing?

然後您在準備好的評論中提到了一些新產品，我只是想知道您是否可以在市場機會的擴展方面提供更多的細節，或者在您將要解決的應用類型方面提供更多的細節？

This is -- in general, I can -- I will be very careful about it because some of this information is obviously very confidential. But I would say that there are 2 areas where we are developing products. First of all, is to increase our time. We've been increasing it gradually. And there are areas that we have identified that have -- we have good opportunities and we have the technologies to enter and these are areas that we develop products and will introduce it. In parallel, we are working with our customers on their road maps and this requires development on our side to meet those road maps. This is very important for us to maintain our market position and increase the business with our existing customers. So this would be the 2 types of developments that we will be introducing in '23.

總的來說，我會非常謹慎，因為其中一些資訊顯然屬於高度機密。但我想說的是，我們正在從兩個方面開發產品。首先，就是增加我們的時間。我們一直在逐步增加投入。我們已經確定了一些領域，這些領域擁有良好的機會和可以進入的技術，我們會開發產品並將其推廣到這些領域。同時，我們正在與客戶合作制定他們的產品路線圖，這需要我們進行開發以滿足這些路線圖。這對於我們保持市場地位並增加與現有客戶的業務至關重要。因此，這將是我們在2023年將要推出的兩種開發案。

And sort of any color on front-end advanced packaging? Is it -- just any sort of...

前端先進封裝上有什麼顏色嗎？是任何一種顏色都可以嗎…

So it will be in the advanced packaging. It will be in the front-end, it will be for silicon carbide. And I would say even certain applications, even in the same aegis. So this is really across our entire portfolio and applications. We will be showing improvements in new capabilities in our products.

所以它將應用於先進封裝，應用於前端，應用於碳化矽。我想說，甚至某些應用，甚至在同一個領域。所以這實際上涵蓋了我們整個產品組合和應用。我們將在產品中展示新功能的改進。

Our next question will be from Brian Chin of Stifel.

我們的下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Brian Chin。

I appreciate the color on the lead times. And at this still if you place an order now, maybe you get a delivery in May, June. So you maybe have a little bit of visibility and backlog going into 2Q. But do you think base on that first half revenue is generally stabilizing around first quarter levels? That’s my first question.

我很欣賞您對交貨週期的清晰了解。目前來看，如果您現在下單，可能在五月或六月就能收到貨。所以，到第二季度，您可能對訂單量和積壓情況有一定的了解。但您認為，基於此，上半年的收入總體上會穩定在第一季的水平嗎？這是我的第一個問題。

Well, Brian, I talked about it before. It's -- the current status, even when we look at our backlog and pipeline that they are solid. Still, we are very hesitant in giving you more color on the second quarter because things are changing. But as I said before, we did not have any major cancellations. So we feel we are positive about the business. But still, it's very hard at this stage to put a very clear number.

布萊恩，我之前談過。就目前的狀況而言，即使考慮到我們的積壓訂單和在建項目，它們仍然很穩健。儘管如此，由於情況正在發生變化，我們仍然不願透露第二季的更多細節。但正如我之前所說，我們沒有出現任何重大訂單取消的情況。因此，我們對業務持樂觀態度。不過，目前還很難給出一個非常明確的數字。

Because if you just run Q1 revenues flat across the year, and you're obviously a little bit more optimistic about second half, but that would obviously get you maybe down 10% for the year or something a lot better than maybe what the kind of the benchmark might be in terms of industry spend this year? Maybe a couple of other questions. The -- I know you -- with China, I know you don't aggregate China exposure as a whole, and so I'm not asking you to do that, but can you provide some sense of how you think holistically your revenue in China could trend this year relative to last year? And also, generally, what makes you more optimistic maybe that the distribution of this revenue improves later in the year?

因為如果你只是假設第一季的收入與全年持平，而你顯然對下半年的業績更為樂觀，那麼全年的業績顯然可能會下降10%，或者比今年行業支出的基準水平好得多。我還有另外幾個問題。關於中國市場，我知道你沒有把中國市場作為一個整體來統計，所以我不是要求你這樣做，但你能否總體上談談你認為今年中國市場的收入與去年相比會如何變化？此外，整體而言，是什麼讓你對今年後期收入分配的改善更加樂觀？

So first of all, we did not -- and as you said, we don't give any segmentation in Asia. But all in all, China is coming out of the CORONA virus, it's going to open, and we'll see how things work there in a couple of months. But when we look in China, we are -- the business there is stable. The backlog is stable, the pipeline is stable. We don't see any major change and I think our customers there are continuing to order machines. The industry is growing there, the new customers there. So I don't see any change. However, there are some, I would say, some things that we will need to wait and see how the whole thing in China is playing out. I think Rafi talked in here in his prepared remarks about how the U.S. restrictions would work there. There are a lot of unknowns, but I think from our point of view, we do not see a major change there. And Rafi, maybe you want to comment further.

首先，正如您所說，我們沒有在亞洲進行任何細分。但總的來說，中國正在擺脫新冠病毒的影響，即將解禁，幾個月後我們再看看那裡的情況如何。但就中國而言，那裡的業務很穩定。積壓訂單穩定，產品線也穩定。我們沒有看到任何重大變化，我認為我們在那裡的客戶仍在繼續訂購機器。那裡的行業正在成長，新客戶也不斷湧現。所以我沒有看到任何變化。但是，我想說，有些事情我們需要拭目以待，看看中國的整體情況如何發展。我想拉菲在他準備好的演講稿中談到了美國的限制措施將如何在中國發揮作用。有很多未知數，但我認為從我們的角度來看，我們在那裡沒有看到任何重大變化。拉菲，也許您想進一步評論一下。

I say that if during the Q1, the proportion between China, Asia and other territory are about the same as last year and we are to take into consideration, the China was under a very tough time and very heavy slowdown. So as far as I know, the government now want to make a very quick recovery. So definitely, it can make -- this action could definitely improve the business in China. But as I said, it's too early to say we have to wait maybe 1, 2 months, and then we can feel more comfortable what is going on.

我想說的是，如果第一季中國、亞洲和其他地區的佔比與去年大致相同，考慮到中國正經歷著非常艱難的時期，經濟放緩非常嚴重，那麼政府現在希望盡快實現復甦。所以，這肯定能夠──這項舉措肯定能夠改善中國的業務。但正如我所說，現在下結論還為時過早，我們可能需要等待一兩個月，然後才能對情況有更清晰的了解。

And maybe a very last question. Silicon carbide has come up a mentioned a few times on the call. Within maybe that 20% of revenue, which Q4 and maybe similar to last year, but what's the significance exiting the year of your silicon carbide power device revenue? And kind of with new products, existing products, is that a business of its smaller size right now? It looks like it could even grow this year? And kind of geographically, where are you stronger and where are you targeting? Do you think just not by customer, but Europe, U.S., Japan, maybe China? Any color there would be helpful.

最後一個問題。碳化矽在電話會議上被多次提及。大概佔到第四季營收的20%，可能與去年差不多。但碳化矽功率元件營收在年底前有什麼意義？從新產品和現有產品來看，目前這項業務的規模是否較小？看起來今年甚至可能成長？從地理上看，你們的優勢在哪裡？目標客戶在哪裡？您認為不只是依照客戶，還包括歐洲、美國、日本，或許還有中國嗎？任何具體細分都會有所幫助。

So first of all, the silicon car by the compound semi in general, it's a global business, and it's in all territories. And obviously, I'm hesitant, I don't want to disclose any names of customers, but we are serving, I would say, most of the major players in this area. I think we talked about the $18 million of order which we received a few weeks ago. And that's definitely from a number, it's a significant number. What I can talk about is, this is just one customer with specific steps. We are doing additional steps at this customer, this specific customer that there is even more potential in that specific opportunity. And like this customer, there are several other customers that can order machines.

首先，從複合半導體到矽片汽車，這是一個全球性業務，遍布所有地區。顯然，我不太確定，我不想透露任何客戶的名字，但我想說，我們服務於該領域的大多數主要參與者。我記得我們談到了幾週前收到的1800萬美元訂單。這絕對是一個相當大的數字。我可以說的是，這只是一個客戶的具體步驟。我們正在針對這個客戶採取額外的措施，這個特定的客戶在這個特定機會中蘊藏著更大的潛力。像這個客戶一樣，還有其他幾個客戶可以訂購機器。

So silicon carbide is growing very fast. We have a good position in all, I would say, most of the major Tier 1 customers that are out there. And definitely, it's a business that I'm expecting to grow. We're going to grow both as the business growth, but we are also finding more and more steps within the process that we are going to address.

碳化矽業務成長非常迅速。我想說，我們在大多數主要的一級客戶中都佔據著良好的地位。而且，我絕對期待這項業務能夠成長。我們不僅會隨著業務的成長而成長，而且我們也在不斷探索新的製程步驟，以期解決這些問題。

I would like to add that silicon carbide actually is mainly for the electric cars. And everyone knows what's going on. This is one of the segments that is the (inaudible) is over, I think, 20%. So definitely, this drive the silica carbide very aggressively, and this is why we feel very comfortable with it.

我想補充一點，碳化矽實際上主要用於電動車。大家都知道發生了什麼事。這是一個（聽不清楚）成長超過20%的領域。這無疑會大大推動碳化矽的發展，這也是我們對它感到非常放心的原因。

Our next question will be from Craig Ellis from B. Riley.

我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Craig Ellis。

So congratulations on the fifth year of growth, really a great track record. I wanted to follow up on the industry outperformance issue, and I totally understand that the nature of things makes it hard to really provide concrete color around the businesses dynamics beyond the current quarter. So I'll try it this way. If you look at the potential to outperform industry this year, can you give us some range of potential outperformance that you think is possible? And if you can't quantify that, could you rank the factors that you think are most significant in leading to an outperformance margin?

恭喜公司連續第五年保持成長，真是了不起的成績。我想跟進一下行業超越表現的問題，我完全理解，由於實際情況，很難真正準確地描述本季之後的業務動態。所以我想這樣問。如果您認為今年超​​越行業表現的潛力巨大，能否給我們一些您認為可能超越行業表現的範圍？如果您無法量化，能否列出您認為對實現超越表現幅度最重要的因素？

Let me try. We talked about the segmentation. So I think that the advanced packaging segment will be, I would say, solid this year. So this is a segment that is 60% of our business in the fourth quarter was 67%. This is a segment that will maintain, I would say, a good performance. And when I talk about this segment, I'm including the DRAM move to high-bandwidth memory, potentially there is the DDR5. So definitely 60% of our business, I think, is this, I can say, in good shape.

我來試試。我們討論過細分市場。我認為先進封裝業務今年會表現穩健。這個業務占我們第四季業務的60%，也就是67%。我認為這個業務將保持良好的表現。我談到這個業務時，包括了從DRAM到高頻寬記憶體的轉變，以及潛在的DDR5。所以，我認為我們60%的業務都處於良好狀態。

Then there are the rest, I think silicon carbide is an area that should also perform well. As Rafi said, this is going to electric cars, and this is a segment that's going to continue to grow because there is a transition from the – to electric cars, we see it everywhere. And that comes, I would say, the risk. But I think where we are -- where there is an uncertainty is in the capacity. And some of our customers that are very hesitant about expanding their capacity. And that's the area where it's very hard to give a number to quantify. So we feel comfortable about it will outperform the performance of the market, but to give you an exact number, it is difficult.

除此之外，我認為碳化矽領域也應該表現良好。正如拉菲所說，這正朝著電動車的方向發展，而這個領域將會持續成長，因為汽車產業正在從傳統汽車向電動車轉型，這種趨勢隨處可見。我想說，這也帶來了風險。但我認為，我們目前面臨的不確定性在於產能。我們的一些客戶對擴大產能非常猶豫。而在這個領域，我們很難給出一個量化的數字。因此，我們確信它的表現會優於市場，但要給出一個確切的數字則很難。

Now one thing that definitely I think is a plus is our exposure and strength in China, definitely. As Rafi said, they are coming, there are some loans, but definitely, this is an area that's going to continue and expand the industry. There is no choice. We see that the number of new customers, application, definitely, I'm expecting that this will be a plus for us in ’23.

現在，我認為絕對有利的一點是我們在中國的曝光和實力。正如拉菲所說，客戶正在湧入，也有一些貸款，但毫無疑問，這是一個將繼續發展並擴大行業規模的領域。別無選擇。我們看到新客戶的數量和申請數量都在增長，我預計這在2023年對我們而言將是一個利好。

Rafi, do you want to add something?

拉菲，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

That's fine. That's exactly the situation.

沒關係，情況就是這樣。

Moshe, I'll flip one over to you. So it sounds like within operating expense, there are some different dynamics going on, on the R&D line. The company is committed to all the things that are going to generate those new products that you've talked about. So it sounds like spending there is at least stable but potentially up. But on other parts of operating expense, you're looking for efficiency. So how does that net out in the first quarter and through the year? Does it net to fairly flat OpEx? Would they go down in absolute dollars through the year? Help us with the contour of that line?

Moshe，我把一個問題交給你。聽起來，在營運費用方面，研發方面有一些不同的動態。本公司致力於所有能夠產生您所提及的新產品的研發工作。所以聽起來這方面的支出至少是穩定的，但可能會上升。但在營運費用的其他部分，您追求的是效率。那麼，在第一季和全年，這部分淨支出如何？淨營運支出與營運支出持平？全年的絕對金額會下降嗎？能不能幫我們大致了解一下這條線的輪廓？

Yes. So yes, you're right. We will continue to invest in R&D. And as a matter of fact, we will see some increase in R&D over the year. So that means that other areas will have to compensate for that, and these are sales and marketing and G&A. And here, we are going to tackle sales channel improvements we are going to look into travel. Basically, we will be doing like any company that is looking to improve profitability, we will be much more cautious with respect to all kinds of expenses. We will monitor it more carefully. Not that we have not done it in the past, but obviously, when you are in a more challenging business situation with demos.

是的。所以，你說得對。我們將繼續在研發方面投入。事實上，今年我們的研發投入將會增加。這意味著其他領域需要彌補這一缺口，例如銷售、行銷和一般行政費用。在這方面，我們將著手改善銷售管道，並研究旅遊業務。基本上，我們會像任何一家尋求提高獲利能力的公司一樣，對各種支出更加謹慎。我們會更仔細地監控。我們過去並非沒有這樣做過，但顯然，當你面臨更具挑戰性的演示業務時，我們會這樣做。

So net-net, we will see some reduction in operating expenses from the Q4 numbers. Not by much, but we will see some reduction. So if we ended Q4 with 17.4%, we will see some reduction in Q1 in the level of operating expenses.

因此，總體而言，我們將看到第四季度的營運費用有所下降。降幅不大，但會下降。如果第四季的營運費用為17.4%，那麼第一季的營運費用水準也會有所下降。

And then, Rafi, I'll ask you a question. So the company has done a fantastic job growing its customer base and the 225% -- or excuse me, the 50%, 25% addition last year is pretty remarkable. As you look at 2023, how much further room is there to expand the customer base? And how significant can that be relative to what -- was it a really big year in 2022?

然後，拉菲，我想問你一個問題。公司在擴大客戶群方面做得非常出色，去年客戶群成長了225%——不好意思，是50%、25%，這非常了不起。展望2023年，客戶群還有多少成長空間？相對於2022年來說，這有多重要？ 2022年真的很重要嗎？

First of all, regarding customer base, even from time to time, we are surprised discover new customer, many of them, by the way, in China as a new customer that you don't know about them, nobody knows. And all of a sudden, you get more and more customers. So definitely, China is one of the major territory that we can see new customers. And when we talk about new customers sometime, it is the same customer, but different segment in this specific customer. For example, if we penetrated to a Tier 1 customer to a specific application and then we found that we can give them better solution and other applications in other departments. So all of a sudden, you have more than one customer, like sub-customers. So we see that there are enough room for us to develop our ability to many other segments, and especially, we talk about OQC, front-end application. There are more and more players that from time to time, we see that we have the tool, we have the ability and -- in order to go there. And this is why we feel very comfortable that the 250 customers definitely are helping us and reducing our risk when there are some slowdown effects. And we definitely continue doing all our efforts to continue expanding the customer, the installed base of customers.

首先，關於客戶群，我們時不時會驚喜地發現新客戶，其中許多在中國都是你不了解、無人知曉的新客戶。突然之間，客戶數量就越來越多了。所以，毫無疑問，中國是我們獲得新客戶的主要地區之一。有時我們所說的新客戶，指的是同一個客戶，但屬於特定客戶的不同細分領域。例如，如果我們深入一級客戶的特定應用領域，發現我們可以為他們提供更好的解決方案，並擴展到其他部門的應用。突然之間，你就擁有了不只一個客戶，例如子客戶。因此，我們看到我們有足夠的空間來擴展其他細分市場，尤其是我們所說的OQC（出貨品質控制），也就是前端應用。我們不時會發現，越來越多的參與者擁有相應的工具和能力，可以進入這些領域。正因如此，我們才感到安心。 250家客戶確實在幫助我們，並在經濟放緩的情況下降低我們的風險。我們一定會繼續竭盡全力，繼續擴大客戶群，並擴大客戶群。

So plenty of room for share and share of wallet expansion should look ahead. That's helpful. Rafi. Moshe, I'll flip it back to you as my final question. So very significant increase in interest income in the quarter. Would you expect that kind of increase again in the first quarter? And how much duration should we expect with these increases in average interest rates across your different cash and investment instruments as we look at '23?

因此，未來應該有足夠的空間來擴大市場份額和錢包份額。這很有幫助。拉菲。莫舍，我的最後一個問題，我再問您。本季利息收入成長非常顯著。您預計第一季會再次出現這種成長嗎？展望2023年，我們預期不同現金和投資工具的平均利率成長會持續多久？

So as you can -- as we all know, interest rates are pretty high these days, and we are trying to take full advantage of the high interest rates. -- we have reported $3.8 million of financial income in the fourth quarter. And yes, we expect this number to continue to grow to $5-ish million on a quarterly basis in 2023. And again, this is all assuming that the interest rates remain at the current level.

所以，正如大家所知，現在利率相當高，我們正在努力充分利用高利率。我們報告稱，第四季的財務收入為380萬美元。是的，我們預計到2023年，這數字將持續成長至每季500萬美元左右。再次強調，這一切都是基於利率維持在目前水準的假設。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question will be from Alona Lahav from (inaudible).

（操作員指示）我們的下一個問題來自（聽不清楚）的 Alona Lahav。

My question is about the memory. It was a bit sluggish in the last couple of years, and you speak about it as a potential for 2023. Could you elaborate a bit about what the prospect there?

我的問題是關於內存的。過去幾年記憶體市場有點低迷，您說2023年記憶體市場有潛力。能詳細談談記憶體市場的前景嗎？

Yes. So this is an example where the technology of the DRAM is changing. So today, there are more and more applications and this is tied up to the high-performance computing and the heterogeneous integration, you see the high-bandwidth memory. These are memories that are in stacks. They are very fast, they're very efficient from power consumption from bandwidth, from every aspect. So all the manufacturers are starting to produce them, they have been producing them, but they are ramping up the quantities, the capacity is growing. And obviously, our machines are here used to inspect the bumps on the (inaudible) and that's an application that we are very dominant throughout in all the major players in this segment. And that's an area, it's not huge, but it is big enough to mention it, I'm expecting '23 and also '24, we expect to enjoy in this application.

是的。這就是 DRAM 技術變革的一個例子。如今，應用程式越來越多，這與高效能運算和異質整合息息相關，例如高頻寬記憶體。這些是堆疊式記憶體。它們速度非常快，從功耗、頻寬等各個方面都非常有效率。因此，所有製造商都開始生產它們，他們一直在生產，而且產量和產能都在增加。顯然，我們的機器用於檢測（聽不清楚）上的凸塊，在這個應用領域，我們在該領域的所有主要參與者中都佔據主導地位。這個領域雖然不大，但也夠大，值得一提。我預計，在 2023 年和 2024 年，我們預計將在這個應用領域大展拳腳。

Our next question will be from Shahar Cohen.

我們的下一個問題來自 Shahar Cohen。

What about silicon carbide. What's your market share over there? Are you the dominant player in the silicon carbide inspection and do also play on gallium nitride on top of silicon carbide. And what we see, we see major expansion from across all customers from on to Wharf to Infineon, why you're saying that customers are electing to add capacity. What we see is multiple growth of capacity in that area. So if you can speak more about that? That would be helpful.

那碳化矽呢？你們在那裡的市佔率是多少？你們在碳化矽檢測領域佔據主導地位嗎？除了碳化矽之外，你們還在氮化鎵領域開展業務。我們看到，從九龍倉到英飛凌，所有客戶都在大幅擴張產能。為什麼說客戶正在選擇增加產能呢？我們看到的是該領域的產能倍增。您能否詳細談談這個問題？這將非常有幫助。

So Shahar I’m not -- I cannot speak about customers' names. But I think as we said before, this is definitely a market, the end market is growing, and the use of silicon carbide is also growing, and more and more people are adopting silicon carbide in their electric cars. So definitely, that's an area that we will see growth over the next few years. And I think Rafi mentioned the (inaudible) is about 20% plus.

所以，Shahar，我不能透露客戶的名字。但我認為，正如我們之前所說，這絕對是一個市場，終端市場正在成長，碳化矽的使用也在成長，越來越多的人在他們的電動車中採用碳化矽。所以，毫無疑問，這是一個未來幾年我們將看到成長的領域。我記得Rafi提到過（聽不清楚），成長率大約是20%以上。

So yes, we are a dominant player in certain applications, not in all of the applications, but it's an area that we are gradually developing capability and expanding our presence to other applications, other steps, process steps within the silicon carbide. So that's definitely a very promising market for us. It has been growing over the last few years. And I think from a single-digit number to double-digit numbers this year, and we definitely expect to see more growth in this segment over the next few years.

是的，我們在某些​​應用領域佔據主導地位，但並非在所有應用領域都如此，但我們正在逐步提升這一領域的能力，並將業務擴展到碳化矽的其他應用、其他步驟和製程步驟。所以，這對我們來說絕對是一個非常有前景的市場。過去幾年，它一直在增長。我認為今年的成長將從個位數上升到兩位數，我們預計未來幾年這一領域將會有更大的成長。

Is there a gallium nitride (inaudible) or is that...

是否存在氮化鎵（聽不清楚）或那是......

Yes, a gallium nitride also has some advantages in other applications. I think the market there still at this stage is slower. But definitely, it's a market that we play in gallium nitride, gallium arsenide -- there are many flavors here. And each of the flames different aspects and means in capacity. I think it's a little bit more complex to try and answer all of this in a few minutes.

是的，氮化鎵在其他應用領域也有一些優勢。我認為目前市場發展速度仍然比較慢。但毫無疑問，我們涉足的是氮化鎵和砷化鎵市場——這個領域有很多種。每種材料都有不同的特點，其容量也各不相同。我覺得幾分鐘內回答所有這些問題會比較複雜。

But you can give me a call and we can speak about it more. Thank you very much.

不過你可以打電話給我，我們可以進一步談談。非常感謝。

I believe that is the end of the question-and-answer session. Before I hand over back to Rafi, I'd like to let you all know in the coming hours you upload the recording of this conference call to the Investor Relations section of Camtek's website at Camtek.com. I'd like to thank everybody for joining this call. And I'd like to hand back to Rafi for a closing statement.

我想問答環節到此結束。在將發言權交還給拉菲之前，我想通知大家，在接下來的幾個小時內，請大家將本次電話會議的錄音上傳到Camtek網站Camtek.com的「投資者關係」板塊。感謝各位參加本次電話會議。現在，請拉菲做最後總結發言。

Okay. I would like to thank you all for your continued interest in our business. I want to especially thank the employees and my management team for their tremendous performance. To our investors, I thank your long-term support. I look forward to talking with you again next quarter. Thank you, and goodbye.

好的。感謝大家對我們業務的持續關注。我尤其要感謝員工和管理團隊的優異表現。對於我們的投資者，我感謝你們長期以來的支持。期待下個季度再次與你們溝通。謝謝，再見。