Camtek Ltd (CAMT) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by.

女士們、先生們，感謝你們的支持。

I would like to welcome all of you to Camtek's Results Zoom Webinar.

我歡迎大家參加 Camtek 的 Results Zoom 網路研討會。

My name is Kenny Green, and I'm part of the investor relations team at Camtek.

我叫肯尼‧格林 (Kenny Green)，是 Camtek 投資人關係團隊的成員。

All participants other than the presenters are currently muted.

除演示者之外的所有參與者目前均被靜音。

Following the formal presentation, I'll provide some instructions for participating in the live question and answer session.

正式演講結束後，我將提供一些參與現場問答環節的說明。

(Event Instructions)

(活動須知)

With me on the call today, we have Mr. Rafi Amit, Camtek's CEO, Mr. Moshe Eisenberg, Camtek's CFO, and Mr. Ramy Langer Camtek COO.

今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有 Camtek 執行長 Rafi Amit 先生、Camtek 財務長 Moshe Eisenberg 先生和 Camtek 營運長 Ramy Langer 先生。

Rafi will open by providing an overview of Camtek's results and discuss recent market trends.

Rafi 將首先概述 Camtek 的業績並討論最近的市場趨勢。

Moshe will then summarize the financial results of the quarter.

隨後，Moshe 將總結本季的財務結果。

Following that, Rafi, Moshe and Ramy will be available to take your questions.

隨後，Rafi、Moshe 和 Ramy 將回答您的問題。

Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that the statements made by management on this call will contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Federal securities laws.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，管理階層在本次電話會議上所作的陳述將包含聯邦證券法所定義的前瞻性陳述。

Those statements are subject to a range of changes, risks and uncertainties that can cause actual results to vary materially.

這些聲明受到一系列變更、風險和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果有重大差異。

For more information regarding the risk factors that may impact Camtek's results, I would encourage you to review our earnings release and our SEC filings, and specifically the forward-looking statements and risk factors identified in the 2024 annual results, PR and such other factors discussed in our annual report on Form 20 as published on March 21, 2024.

有關可能影響 Camtek 業績的風險因素的更多信息，我建議您查看我們的收益報告和 SEC 文件，特別是 2024 年年度業績中確定的前瞻性陳述和風險因素、PR 以及我們於 2024 年 3 月 21 日發布的 20 號表年度報告中討論的其他因素。

Camtek does not undertake the obligation to update these forward-looking statements in light of new information or future events.

Camtek 不承擔根據新資訊或未來事件更新這些前瞻性聲明的義務。

Today's discussion of the financial results will be presented on a non-gap financial basis unless otherwise stated.

除非另有說明，今天對財務結果的討論將以無差距財務為基礎進行呈現。

As a reminder, our detailed reconciliation between GAAP and non-gap results can be found in today's earnings release.

提醒一下，我們在今天的收益報告中找到 GAAP 和非差距結果之間的詳細對帳。

And with that, I would now like to hand the call over to Mr. Rafi Amit, Camtek's CEO.

現在，我想將電話交給 Camtek 執行長 Rafi Amit 先生。

Rafi, please go ahead.

拉菲，請繼續。

Okay, thanks, Kenny.

好的，謝謝，肯尼。

Hello everyone.

大家好。

Camtek ended the Fourth quarter and the whole year with record results.

Camtek 以創紀錄的業績結束了第四季度及全年業績。

Q4 revenue were $117 million an increase of 32% year-over-year.

第四季營收為 1.17 億美元，年增 32%。

The operating income was $36.3 million 42% improvement year-over-year.

營業收入為3,630萬美元，比去年同期成長42%。

Regarding the old year's results, revenue were $429 million an increase of 36% year-over-year, and operating income came at $130 million 56% better than last year.

就去年的業績而言，營收為 4.29 億美元，比去年成長 36%，營業收入為 1.3 億美元，比去年成長 56%。

The distribution of revenue for the whole year was around 50% for HPC and 20% for other advanced packaging applications.

全年營收分佈約50%來自HPC，20%來自其他先進封裝應用。

The rest was divided between the CIA compound semi, front end, and general 2D applications.

其餘部分則分佈在 CIA 複合半導體、前端和通用 2D 應用之間。

We are starting 2025 with strong business momentum and expect 2025 to be a year of growth, well beyond the 5% WFE gross estimates.

我們以強勁的業務勢頭開啟 2025 年，預計 2025 年將是成長的一年，遠超 5% 的 WFE 毛利率預期。

The main growth driver is expected to be high performance computing or HPC in which we are a key provider.

預計主要的成長動力將是高效能運算或 HPC，我們是該領域的主要提供者。

The demand in HPC segment remains healthy, and overall we expect the contribution of HPC to our business to be at least 50% in the first half of 2025.

HPC 領域的需求依然健康，整體而言，我們預計 2025 年上半年 HPC 對我們業務的貢獻將達到至少 50%。

Just this week, we received orders totaling over $10 million for HPC related products, which reinforce our assessment of continued growth in the demand for this segment.

僅在本週，我們就收到了總額超過 1000 萬美元的 HPC 相關產品訂單，這強化了我們對該領域需求持續增長的評估。

We identify a shift in the market regarding manufacturing and packaging of HPC modules where these models are gradually start to be manufactured not only by IDM and foundries but also by OSATs.

我們發現 HPC 模組製造和封裝市場發生了轉變，這些模型不僅由 IDM 和代工廠製造，還由 OSAT 製造。

This change in trend is a positive opportunity for us as we have a strong position with Ossats in the different regions.

由於我們在不同地區的 Ossats 中佔據著強勢地位，因此這種趨勢的變化對我們來說是一個積極的機會。

From orders we have on hand our pipeline and from discussion with customers, our revenue guidance for the first quarter of 2025 is between $118 million to $120 million close to a 25% increase over Q1 last year.

根據我們手頭上的訂單和與客戶的討論，我們對 2025 年第一季的營收預期在 1.18 億美元至 1.2 億美元之間，比去年第一季增長近 25%。

We also estimate that the demand for our systems for HPC related products will continue into 2025 and beyond.

我們也估計，我們的 HPC 相關產品系統的需求將持續到 2025 年及以後。

In our last call, we discussed the two new models that we have introduced to the market, the Eagle G5, and the Hawk.

在上次電話會議中，我們討論了我們向市場推出的兩款新車型，Eagle G5 和 Hawk。

The Eagle G5 is currently in operation at multiple customers production lines.

Eagle G5 目前已在多個客戶的生產線上運作。

Delivering excellent performance that align with both our expectations and those of our customers.

提供符合我們和客戶期望的卓越績效。

Meanwhile, the Hawk has successfully completed qualifications with several customers, and we anticipate receiving more orders for it in all future in the near future.

同時，Hawk 已成功完成多家客戶的認證，我們預計在不久的將來會接到更多訂單。

We plan to officially launch the Hawk in SEMICON Korea show next week.

我們計劃在下週的SEMICON Korea展會上正式推出Hawk。

A few words about the Hawk and its distinction from the Eagle.

簡單說一下鷹（Hawk）以及它與鷹的區別。

The Hawk is a new cutting-edge platform engineered for high-end applications such as detecting 100 nanometer defects, measuring several 100 million micro bump at pitch lower than 10 microns, all while performing is.

Hawk 是一種新型尖端平台，專為高端應用而設計，例如檢測 100 奈米缺陷，測量間距小於 10 微米的數億個微凸塊，同時執行高性能。

These advanced requirements are beyond the scope of the Eagle platform, although the Eagle models, especially the Eagle G5, provide excellent performances in a variety of applications.

儘管 Eagle 型號（尤其是 Eagle G5）在各種應用中都提供了出色的性能，但這些高級要求超出了 Eagle 平台的範圍。

The Hawk system has high capabilities but also a high price tag, so there is room for both models.

Hawk 系統功能強大，但價格也昂貴，因此兩種型號都有發展空間。

Going back to our opportunity in the HPC segment, a major part of our business support HPC related hardware.

回到我們在 HPC 領域的機遇，我們業務的很大一部分支援 HPC 相關硬體。

The growing demand for HPC hardware has placed Camtek in a leading position and allowed us to grow significantly in 2024, much beyond the market growth rate.

對 HPC 硬體的不斷增長的需求使 Camtek 處於領先地位，並使我們在 2024 年實現了顯著增長，遠遠超過市場成長率。

The use of AI capabilities in large organizations is causing rapid growth in demand for HPC, and we are seeing significant investment in server farms around the world in recent years and expect this trend to continue.

大型組織對 AI 功能的使用正在導致對 HPC 的需求快速增長，並且我們看到近年來世界各地對伺服器場進行了大量投資，並預計這種趨勢將持續下去。

Looking into the future, we expect to see AI capabilities penetrate edge computing devices such as automotives, robotics, PC, and eventually mobile phone which require the development of powerful dedicated hardware to be implemented in these edge devices.

展望未來，我們預計人工智慧功能將滲透到汽車、機器人、個人電腦以及最終的手機等邊緣運算設備中，這些設備需要開發強大的專用硬體來實現這些邊緣設備。

When this happens, it will be a great opportunity for us.

當這種情況發生時，這對我們來說將是一個很好的機會。

In summary, our primary growth engine for the upcoming years will be advanced packaging, particularly in high performance computing HPC.

總之，未來幾年我們的主要成長引擎將是先進封裝，特別是在高效能運算 HPC 領域。

We are strongly positioned in this sector and with the introduction of our two new advanced systems, we will reinforce our leadership position.

我們在該領域佔據強勢地位，隨著兩款新先進系統的推出，我們將鞏固我們的領導地位。

And now Mohe will review the financial result, Moshe.

現在 Mohe 將審查財務結果，Moshe。

Thank you, Raffi.

謝謝你，拉菲。

In my financial summary ahead, I will provide the results on a non-gap basis.

在我接下來的財務摘要中，​​我將以無差距的方式提供結果。

The reconciliation between the GAAP results and the non-GAAP results appear in the tables at the end of the press release issued earlier today.

今天稍早發布的新聞稿末尾的表格中列出了 GAAP 結果與非 GAAP 結果之間的對帳。

Fourth quarter revenues came in ahead of our guidance at a record $117.3 million dollar, an increase of 32% compared with the fourth quarter of 2023, an increase of 4% from last quarter.

第四季營收超出我們的預期，達到創紀錄的 1.173 億美元，比 2023 年第四季成長 32%，比上一季成長 4%。

This is the Fifth consecutive record quarter in revenues.

這是營收連續第五個季度創下紀錄。

For the year, we ended 2024 at $429.2 million versus $315 million last year, which represents 36% increase year-over-year.

截至 2024 年，我們的年度收入為 4.292 億美元，而去年為 3.15 億美元，年增 36%。

The geographic revenue split for the quarter was as follows 92% Asia and 8% the rest of the world.

本季的地理收入分佈為：亞洲 92%、世界其他地區 8%。

Gross profit for the quarter was $59.3 million.

本季毛利為5930萬美元。

The gross margin for the quarter was 50.6%.

本季毛利率為50.6%。

An improvement from the 49.2% reported in the fourth quarter of last year, and similar to the third quarter of this year.

較去年第四季的 49.2% 有所改善，與今年第三季的情況類似。

Operating expenses in the quarter were $23.1 million compared to $18.2 million in the fourth quarter of last year and similar to the $22.9 million in the previous quarter.

本季營運費用為 2,310 萬美元，而去年第四季為 1,820 萬美元，與上一季的 2,290 萬美元相似。

Operating profit in the quarter was $36.3 million compared to the $25.5 million reported in the fourth quarter of last year and $34.2 million in the third quarter.

本季營業利潤為 3,630 萬美元，而去年第四季為 2,550 萬美元，第三季為 3,420 萬美元。

The increase is mostly due to the increase in revenue levels and accordingly in the gross profit.

成長的主要原因是收入水準的提高以及毛利的相應增加。

Operating margin was 30.9% compared to 28.7% and 30.4% respectively.

營業利益率為 30.9%，而去年同期分別為 28.7% 和 30.4%。

Financial income for the quarter was $6.2 million and increase from the $5.7 million reported last year and similar to the $6.4 million in the previous quarter.

本季財務收入為 620 萬美元，高於去年同期的 570 萬美元，與上一季的 640 萬美元持平。

Net income for the fourth quarter of 2024 was $37.7 million or $0.77 per diluted share.

2024 年第四季淨收入為 3,770 萬美元，即每股攤薄收入 0.77 美元。

This is compared to a net income of $28.2 million or $0.57 per share in the fourth quarter of last year.

相比之下，去年第四季的淨收入為 2,820 萬美元，即每股 0.57 美元。

Total diluted number of shares as of the end of Q4 was $49.5 million.

截至第四季末，總攤薄股份數為 4,950 萬美元。

For the year in all, we recorded net income of $139 million 45% improvement over last year.

全年我們的淨收入為 1.39 億美元，比去年增長了 45%。

Turning to some high-level balance sheet and cash flow metrics, cash and cash equivalents, including short- and long-term deposits and marketable securities as of December 31, 2024 were $501.2 million.

談到一些優先資產負債表和現金流指標，截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的現金和現金等價物（包括短期和長期存款和有價證券）為 5.012 億美元。

This compared with $488.7 million at the end of the third quarter.

相比之下，第三季末的營收為 4.887 億美元。

We generated $16.2 million in cash from operations in the quarter.

本季度，我們經營活動產生了 1,620 萬美元的現金。

And for the whole year, we generated $122 million.

全年我們獲利 1.22 億美元。

Inventory level increased to $123.1 million from $116.3 million.

庫存水準從 1.163 億美元增加至 1.231 億美元。

The increase over the previous quarter is to support the anticipated sales growth in the coming quarters.

與上一季相比的成長是為了支持未來幾季預期的銷售成長。

Accounts receivables increased to $99.6 million from $71 million in the previous quarter, mostly due to the timing of collection.

應收帳款從上一季的 7,100 萬美元增至 9,960 萬美元，主要原因是收款時間安排。

We have already recorded strong collection since the beginning of 2025 and we expect account receivable level at the end of Q1 to be in line with revenue.

自 2025 年初以來，我們已記錄了強勁的收款業績，我們預計第一季末的應收帳款水準將與收入保持一致。

DSO as of the end of Q4, was 77 days, down from 90 days a year ago.

截至第四季末，DSO 為 77 天，低於一年前的 90 天。

With respect to guidance, as Rafi said before, we expect revenue of between $118 million to $120 million in the first quarter, and that we look forward to a year of growth in 2025.

關於指引，正如拉菲之前所說，我們預計第一季的營收將在 1.18 億美元至 1.2 億美元之間，並期待 2025 年成長。

And with that, Rafi, Ramy and I will be open to take your questions.

接下來，拉菲、拉米和我將願意回答大家的問題。

Kenny.

肯尼。

Thank you, Moshe.

謝謝你，摩西。

At this time, we'll begin the question-and-answer session.

現在，我們將開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

So our first question is going to be from Charles Shi of Needham.

我們的第一個問題來自 Needham 的 Charles Shi。

Charles, you may go ahead and unmute yourself.

查爾斯，你可以繼續並取消靜音。

Yeah, thanks.

是的，謝謝。

The, congrats on the good results and the solid guide.

那麼，恭喜您取得的良好成績和堅實的指導。

I think that my first question is about the guidance on the HPC contribution in the first half, '25.

我的第一個問題是關於 25 年上半年 HPC 貢獻的指導。

I think you guys mentioned about 50%, but from the commentary, it sounds like you're seeing HPC demand, probably broadening more to (OA) where you have the historical strength.

我認為你們提到了大約 50%，但從評論來看，聽起來你看到了 HPC 需求，可能會進一步擴展到你們具有歷史實力的（OA）。

I recall like, last year I think you guys were providing a little bit more details into the HPC, there's part of that is HPM, part of that is Chiplet.

我記得，去年你們提供了更多關於 HPC 的細節，其中一部分是 HPM，一部分是 Chiplet。

So assuming (OSA)is probably taking up more of the triplet related demand from the leading foundry is the mix between HBM versus Chiplet kind of shifting more to triplet, at least through the first half '25.

因此，假設（OSA）可能會滿足領先代工廠對三重晶石更多相關需求，那麼 HBM 與 Chiplet 之間的混合將更多地轉向三重晶石，至少在 25 年上半年是如此。

I know you guys.

我了解你們。

Don't give those details, but directionally, can you comment on that?

不要透露這些細節，但從方向上講，您能對此發表評論嗎？

So, hi Charles, this is Ramy.

嗨，查爾斯，我是拉米。

So, in general, yes, we continue, let me try and answer with I'll give you two views about the HPC market.

因此，總的來說，是的，我們繼續，讓我嘗試回答，我將給你關於 HPC 市場的兩點看法。

So I think what differs us for probably some of the competition is that we we have a strong position at all the big manufacturers.

因此，我認為我們與其他競爭對手的不同之處在於，我們在所有大型製造商中都佔據著強勢地位。

And as a result, we are less and we are performing several inspection and metrology steps at each and continually winning these steps.

因此，我們在每個步驟中都執行幾個檢查和計量步驟，並不斷贏得這些步驟。

So this makes us a little bit, a bit less sensitive to a specific customer.

因此，這使得我們對特定客戶的敏感度降低一點。

And as you mentioned, the OSATs are starting to open up and this is definitely, this is reflected in our forecast for the first half.

正如您所說，OSAT 開始開放，這肯定反映在我們對上半年的預測中。

Regarding the HBM.

關於 HBM。

So yes, we do not give the exact numbers, but what I can tell you that we continue to see demand and we have significant orders on hand for the first half of 2025 that we plan to deliver.

所以是的，我們沒有給出確切的數字，但我可以告訴你，我們繼續看到需求，我們手頭上有大量訂單，我們計劃在 2025 年上半年交付。

Any early view on the second half of this year, at this point?

目前，對今年下半年有什麼初步看法嗎？

It's very typical.

這是很典型的。

Obviously, we have a lot of discussions.

顯然，我們進行了很多討論。

We are starting to see a backlog building up for the second half.

我們開始看到下半年的積壓訂單不斷增加。

We, I would say the discussions with our customers are positive, but still, it's too early to give something more solid from a guidance point of view.

我想說，我們與客戶的討論是正面的，但從指導的角度來看，現在給出更確切的答案還為時過早。

Got it.

知道了。

So maybe my last question, what's the China revenue contribution last year?

所以也許我的最後一個問題是，去年中國的收入貢獻是多少？

I recall you said it's somewhere around 30% to 35%.

我記得您說過大概在 30% 到 35% 左右。

Is that number still the case based on the actual results and, any expectation for China revenue this year that is the percentage going up or going down or going to be flattish versus '24?

根據實際結果，這個數字是否仍然如此？

So, hi Charles, this is Moshe speaking.

嗨，查爾斯，我是摩西。

With respect to geographical split for the year, indeed China went down a bit from 2023.

就今年的地理分佈而言，中國確實比 2023 年略有下降。

In 2023 we reported 47% from China.

2023 年，我們報告 47% 來自中國。

This year we this year, I mean 2024, we expect China to contribute around 30%.

今年，也就是 2024 年，我們預期中國將貢獻約 30%。

It's a bit early to say about '25, but we see demand coming also from China, so we expect somewhat, in the range of any, anywhere between 30% and 35% coming from China in '25.

現在談25年還為時過早，但我們看到需求也來自中國，因此我們預計25年來自中國的需求將介於30%至35%之間。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Yeah, I would like, if you don't mind, I would like to go back to your previous question and try to expand a little bit, the view of HPC in general.

是的，如果您不介意的話，我想回到您之前的問題並嘗試稍微擴展一下對 HPC 的整體看法。

You see, as the HBC includes three major components.

您會看到，HBC 包含三個主要組成部分。

We talk about the HBM.

我們討論 HBM。

We talk about all the GPU, we talk about the interposers.

我們討論所有 GPU，我們討論插入器。

There are more, but they are the main, the major three components.

還有更多，但它們是主要的、三個組成部分。

Now if one of them we suffer of any issue of capacity or missing capacity, definitely it could affect the other.

現在，如果其中一個出現容量問題或容量缺失，肯定會影響另一個。

Because if you cannot put your component on the interposer, nobody will make any extra HBM or CPU if there are no room to put them on the interposer.

因為如果您無法將元件放在中介層上，而中介層上又沒有空間放置它們，那麼就沒有人會製造任何額外的 HBM 或 CPU。

So, you have to look always not just to the final demand of the end user, the server farm, but also in the Capacity in the production capacity and you know TSMC made an announcement.

因此，你必須始終不僅要關注最終用戶、伺服器場的最終需求，還要關註生產能力，你知道台積電已經發布了一個公告。

They said that they don't have enough capacity.

他們說他們的產能不夠。

They build extra and hopefully until mid of this year they will make catch up.

他們建造了額外的設施，希望到今年年中能趕上進度。

So you ask about the second half.

所以你問的是後半部。

I would say that this is one of the major issues.

我想說這是主要問題之一。

If (TCC) can make the catch up and expand its capacity and production capacity, definitely it may open the other, player to provide the components so.

如果 (TCC) 能夠迎頭趕上，擴大其產能和生產能力，那麼它肯定可以打開其他市場，為其提供零件。

That all the modules could be built, so this is something that probably you will see very soon.

所有模組都可以構建，所以這可能是您很快就會看到的事情。

Thanks, Rafi.

謝謝，拉菲。

I appreciate the insights.

我很欣賞這些見解。

Okay.

好的。

Thanks, Charles.

謝謝，查爾斯。

Our next question is going to be from Tom O'Malley of Barclays.

我們的下一個問題來自巴克萊銀行的湯姆奧馬利。

Tom, you may go ahead and ask your question.

湯姆，你可以繼續提問。

Hey guys, this is Kyle Bluyon for Tom O'Malley.

大家好，我是湯姆奧馬利 (Tom O'Malley) 的凱爾布魯永 (Kyle Bluyon)。

Thank you for taking our questions.

感謝您回答我們的問題。

So I wanted to start off asking about the move to hybrid bonding.

因此我想先詢問有關混合鍵合的轉變情況。

You guys have talked about it in the past about how your inspection steps actually goes up versus current generations.

你們過去曾經討論過，與當前幾代人相比，你們的檢查步驟實際上有所改善。

So I was kind of wondering like if you could refresh us like what your expectation is on the timing for hyper bonding and what like the delta is the number of steps you could address there versus in current solutions now.

所以我想知道您是否可以告訴我們您對超鍵合時間的預期是什麼，以及與當前解決方案相比，您可以解決的步驟數是多少。

And Hi, this is Rami.

你好，我是拉米 (Rami)。

So we definitely hybrid bonding is starting to make the first steps in the market.

因此我們確信混合鍵結技術已開始在市場上邁出第一步。

I think, in our segment, we're starting to see initial production.

我認為，在我們的領域，我們已經開始看到初步生產。

We have already installed machines at several sites.

我們已經在多個站點安裝了機器。

That are being used as we speak for several steps in the hybrid bonding, the Hawk is definitely going to play a major role in this segment, although we also have machines from the Eagle family as well there.

正如我們所說，這些設備正在用於混合鍵合的幾個步驟，Hawk 肯定會在這個領域發揮重要作用，儘管我們也有來自 Eagle 系列的機器。

Definitely we are seeing activities there, but I think when we think about hybrid bonding, And the contribution to production, high volume production, it's still a couple of years away, I would say starting '27, '28, we will start to see volume production there.

我們確實看到了那裡的活動，但我認為，當我們考慮混合鍵合以及對生產的貢獻，大批量生產時，還需要幾年的時間，我想說從'27，'28年開始，我們將開始看到那裡的批量生產。

What else I can mention that definitely there are going to be some meteorology steps where we will take part of it.

我還能提到一點，我們肯定會採取一些氣象措施，並參與其中。

So all in all, as I said in previous calls, we view the hybrid bonding as an additional opportunity in our market space.

總而言之，正如我在之前的電話會議中所說的那樣，我們將混合債券視為我們市場空間的額外機會。

Yeah.

是的。

And I would like to, I have one more, comment on that.

我還想對此發表一點評論。

As far as we understand from customer who developed this process.

根據我們從開發此流程的客戶處了解到的情況。

It's suffered a very low yield because it's very complicated, very high risk process.

由於過程非常複雜，風險極高，因此收益非常低。

So as far as we understand, the major application for this goal for the very high-end application, it means that the hybrid body is not going to replace all the connection or the current.

據我們了解，這一目標的主要應用是高階應用，這意味著混合體不會取代所有的連接或電流。

Connection method that we have today.

我們今天所擁有的連結方法。

Probably it's focused on very high-end applications and definitely cannot replace all the current applications.

它可能專注於非常高端的應用程序，並且絕對無法取代所有當前的應用程式。

That's our I would say observation at this point.

這是我目前的觀察。

All right, thank you.

好的，謝謝。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

And then for my follow up, I wanted to ask on the HPM market.

然後，為了跟進，我想問 HPM 市場。

So I like the three or the three big customers, and I know you can't talk about like by customers specifically, but if one of them ends up having a slowdown in spend or has trouble getting qualified and leading production, do you expect like other customers to be able to pick up any sort of GAAP from one of the big players, or I'm kind of just trying to figure out like, I know you talked about the first half visibility being very strong for HBM just what it could look like in the long term across those customers.

所以我喜歡這三個或三個大客戶，我知道你不能具體談論每個客戶，但如果其中一個最終支出放緩或難以獲得資格並領先生產，你是否期望其他客戶能夠從其中一個大公司那裡獲得任何形式的 GAAP，或者我只是想弄清楚，我知道你說過 HBM 上半年的可見性非常強，那麼從長遠來看，這些客戶的情況會來看，這些客戶的情況會怎樣。

So, this is a commodity product at the end of the day, so definitely, if there is a slowdown in one customer, the other customer will pick it up.

所以，從根本上來說，這是一種商品產品，因此，如果一個客戶的業務放緩，另一個客戶肯定會接手。

I believe there are some that are doing better than others.

我相信有些人做得比其他人更好。

But as we said, we have a very strong position in all three.

但正如我們所說，我們在這三個領域都佔有非常強的地位。

So from our point of view, we expect to continue and play a major role in this specific market.

因此從我們的角度來看，我們希望繼續在這個特定的市場中發揮重要作用。

I want to reiterate, we will ship machines.

我想重申，我們將運送機器。

In the first quarter and I think also, of course, beyond.

在第一季度，我認為當然還會超出這個數字。

Rafi made a very important statement just a few minutes ago that really this high performance computing is built out.

拉菲幾分鐘前發表了一個非常重要的聲明，說這種高效能運算確實已經建成。

Of a few building blocks.

由一些構建塊組成。

It's the GPOs, it's the HPM, it's the interpols, and then other things.

它是 GPO、HPM、國際刑警組織，還有其他東西。

So basically, as we understand, the TSMC are going to double the capacity next year.

所以基本上，據我們了解，台積電明年將把產能翻倍。

This is going to free additional capacity to other players to enter this market.

這將釋放額外的產能，讓其他參與者進入這個市場。

And there are more places than the OSSA, so definitely we see this market developing, growing at a very high rate, the growth rate of the COAS and COAS-like technology, the number of packages, the growth, the keger is in the range of 50% over the next few years.

而且除了 OSSA 之外還有更多地方，所以我們肯定會看到這個市場在發展，以非常高的速度增長，COAS 和類似 COAS 的技術的增長率、包裝的數量、增長率、keger 在未來幾年將在 50% 的範圍內。

So definitely this is a market that is going to draw a lot of HBMs to it and we feel very comfortable with the long-term future of this market.

因此，這個市場肯定會吸引大量 HBM，而且我們對這個市場的長期未來感到非常有信心。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks Karl.

謝謝卡爾。

Our next question is going to be from Matt Priscoe of Cancer.

我們的下一個問題來自《Cancer》的 Matt Priscoe。

Matt, please go ahead.

馬特，請繼續。

Yeah, thanks for taking my question.

是的，感謝您回答我的問題。

I think it would be great if we could, talk about the product traction across Eagle G5 and and Hawk, maybe an update on orders and early customer reception and importantly, what type of market opportunities do you view these opening for Camteck?

我認為如果我們可以談論 Eagle G5 和 Hawk 的產品吸引力，或許是關於訂單和早期客戶接待的更新，那就太好了，更重要的是，您認為這些為 Camteck 打開了什麼樣的市場機會？

Is this kind of, I'm going to expand your current SAM, or is this more to address future issues?

這是要擴展您目前的 SAM，還是為了解決未來的問題？

Thank you.

謝謝。

So, first of all, there are two aspects here.

首先，這裡有兩個面向。

So, first of all, there is one aspect of being more competitive.

所以，首先，有一個面向就是更具競爭力。

So the Eagle G5 or fifth generation that is a much faster, more accurate, brings in more capabilities, will make our position more competitive and we expect to take more and more market share.

因此，Eagle G5 或第五代產品速度更快、更準確，功能更強大，將使我們的地位更具競爭力，我們期望佔據越來越多的市場份額。

So this is on the G5.

這是在 G5 上。

The hawk will open new markets for us.

鷹將為我們開闢新的市場。

Markets that today are beyond the capabilities of the eagle product line.

如今這些市場已經超出了 Eagle 產品線的能力範圍。

And there are quite a few, I'll give you an example.

而且還有很多，我舉個例子給你聽。

It's the high number of micro bumps or wafers or logic devices, you are talking about 500 million devices on a six single wafer.

它包含大量的微凸塊、晶圓或邏輯元件，六個單晶圓上就有 5 億個裝置。

That's an application that is starting to develop that is beyond the capability of the current product line.

這是一個剛開始開發的應用程序，其功能超出了當前產品線的能力。

So definitely the Hawk will increase.

因此，Hawk 的數量肯定會增加。

Our total available market and it's a couple of, I would say at least $200 million and potentially more, it will free up.

我們的總可用市場規模大約是幾億美元，我想至少有 2 億美元，甚至可能更多，它將被釋放。

Some front-end applications and so forth.

一些前端應用程式等等。

I think I won't be able to give you more details in this call, but definitely it will increase our available market.

我想我無法在這次電話會議中向您提供更多細節，但它肯定會增加我們的可用市場。

It will take us to places that our current products today just cannot perform.

它將帶我們到當今現有產品無法實現的地方。

Although we have an excellent product line for our existing market.

儘管我們針對現有市場已經擁有優秀的產品線。

About the orders, we made an announcement last November that we received orders for over $50 million.

關於訂單，我們去年11月宣布，我們接到了超過5000萬美元的訂單。

We are, we also said in that announcement that we expect to get additional orders and then this is the case, and we plan to ship these machines this year.

我們也在公告中表示，我們預計會獲得更多訂單，情況就是這樣，我們計劃今年出貨這些機器。

For the G5, we already received a comparatively large number of orders that again, we already started to ship them.

對於 G5，我們已經收到了相對較多的訂單，而且我們已經開始發貨。

Actually, in the fourth quarter of last year, we shipped the initial machines that are already in production, and we are starting to ramp the G5 into production.

實際上，去年第四季度，我們交付了第一批已投入生產的機器，我們正在開始加速 G5 的生產。

The Hawk is also finished already qualification and so we are in a very good shape there as well.

老鷹隊也已經完成了資格賽，因此我們在那裡的狀態也非常好。

Okay, I would like to add again one more comment because you ask if this new product is for the near future, maybe longer.

好的，我想再補充一則評論，因為您問這款新產品是否會在不久的將來推出，甚至更久。

I would say that the Hawk in general is two major capabilities.

我想說，Hawk整體來說有兩大主要能力。

Number one is this capability for high end application.

第一是針對高階應用的能力。

Probably we will see more and more by the end of the year next year because, while R&D running production and it's move to production, it takes some time.

可能到明年年底我們會看到越來越多的消息，因為雖然研發運行到生產並轉移到生產需要一些時間。

But the other aspect of the of the Hawk is very high throughput even in current application.

但Hawk的另一個特點是即使在目前應用中也具有非常高的吞吐量。

So if customer, the throughput is very important for him and he's willing to pay the price tag, definitely he may choose the Hawk.

因此，如果客戶非常重視吞吐量，而且願意支付高昂的價格，那麼他肯定會選擇 Hawk。

So the Hawk definitely can serve customer that the main issue is high throughput, but when we designed the Hawk, it was designed mainly for high end applications, so it can answer for both of them.

因此，Hawk 絕對可以滿足主要問題是高吞吐量的客戶的需求，但是我們在設計 Hawk 時，它主要針對高端應用而設計，因此它可以同時解決這兩個問題。

Very helpful, thank you.

非常有幫助，謝謝。

And then for my follow up as as the industry transitions to technology such as, HPM4 and Colossal, how does that impact Camteck opportunity or maybe process control intensity in general.

然後，隨著產業向 HPM4 和 Colossal 等技術轉型，我的後續問題是，這將如何影響 Camteck 的機會或整體製程控制強度。

Thanks.

謝謝。

So, in general, it's a positive, I would say, it's a positive trend, from what you call process control, the intensity will probably grow.

所以，總的來說，這是一個積極的趨勢，從所謂的過程控制來看，強度可能會增加。

As you're putting more and more dice in the same module, so you would like to make sure that none of the dice has any defects on.

當你在同一個模組中放入越來越多的骰子時，你會想確保所有骰子都沒有任何缺陷。

So I, we, in our view and our discussions with customers, this will have a positive effect on the quality control.

因此，根據我們的觀點以及與客戶的討論，這將對品質控制產生正面影響。

Yeah, but the main application is 100% inspection and metrology.

是的，但主要應用是 100% 檢查和計量。

Our customers use our machines to inspect and measure each wafer.

我們的客戶使用我們的機器來檢查和測量每個晶圓。

Now when we go to metrology, in metrology they do maybe more sampling, but in inspection, most of them do 100%.

現在，當我們進行計量時，在計量方面他們可能會進行更多的抽樣，但在檢查方面，他們中的大多數會進行 100% 的抽樣。

Matt.

馬特。

That answers all your questions.

這回答了你的所有問題。

That is perfect.

那太完美了。

Thank you, guys.

謝謝你們。

Okay, thanks.

好的，謝謝。

Our next question is coming from Brian Chin of Stifel.

下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Brian Chin。

Brian, you may go ahead and ask.

布萊恩，你可以繼續問。

Hi there, good afternoon.

大家好，下午好。

Thanks for letting us ask a few questions.

感謝您讓我們提出幾個問題。

Maybe just for the stick on the HBM 4 topic for a moment here, how large of an increase are you expecting on the micro bumps per die or per wafer for HBM 4 versus 3E?

也許只是為了暫時堅持 HBM 4 主題，您預計 HBM 4 與 3E 相比每個晶片或每個晶圓的微凸塊數量會增加多少？

And do you expect your system shipments to be stronger really next year versus this year, and is this, are there any applications there that are better suited for Hawk relative to Eagle?

您是否預計明年您的系統出貨量會比今年更強勁？

So, let's talk about the HVM those application range today for, if you take a wafer, it's over 100 million bumps and it's going to stay in this range, at least for the foreseeable future.

因此，今天我們來談談 HVM 的應用範圍，如果你拿一個晶圓，它有超過 1 億個凸塊，並且它將保持在這個範圍內，至少在可預見的未來是這樣。

It's not going to go to 300 million bumps.

它不會達到 3 億次顛簸。

It is not in the near future.

這還不是近期的事。

So from that point of view, definitely I would say that the workhouse of the industry is the eagle product line, and I expect that in most cases it will continue.

因此從這個角度來看，我肯定會說，該行業的中心是 Eagle 產品線，而且我預計在大多數情況下它會繼續下去。

And I think as Rafi alluded to, there will be some customers that are very sensitive to the space, and they prefer to take the hawk in order to get a double throughput for the same space of the machine.

我認為，正如拉菲所提到的那樣，有些客戶對空間非常敏感，他們更願意選擇鷹型飛機，以便在機器的相同空間內獲得雙倍的吞吐量。

So this is a potential, this is something that we will see over time.

所以這是一種潛力，這是我們會隨著時間的推移而看到的事情。

But from the capability of the eagle to respond and definitely the Gen 5, it is a very good machine that can probably meet all the requirements of the HBM.

但從 Eagle 的響應能力以及 Gen 5 的能力來看，它是一台非常好的機器，可能可以滿足 HBM 的所有要求。

Now, as we said in previous calls, definitely, today, we are doing in most cases a 100% inspection and the metro and metrology, 3D metrology, and there are additional metrology steps that are done in different areas.

現在，正如我們在先前的電話會議中所說的那樣，今天，我們在大多數情況下都會進行 100% 檢查和計量、3D 計量，並且在不同區域進行其他計量步驟。

So definitely the intensity of the quality control is going to stay or improve in certain areas that don't do 100% inspection and metrology and Swiss go into the HBM4 and beyond, definitely the opportunity for Camteck is going to grow, but you need to couple it with the larger number of COAS and COAS-like packages that are going to grow by kegger of about 50% in the foreseeable future.

因此，在某些不進行 100% 檢測和計量且瑞士進入 HBM4 及更高水平的領域，品質控制強度肯定會保持不變或提高，Camteck 的機會肯定會增長，但你需要將其與大量 COAS 和 COAS 類封裝結合起來，這些封裝在可預見的未來將以約 50% 的速度增長。

So the combination of the market expansion, together with the complexity of the dys and the wafers.

因此，市場擴張與 dys 和晶圓的複雜性相結合。

And the need for higher intensity of quality control is definitely this is the ingredient for Better Business schoolante.

而對更高強度的品質控制的需求無疑是商業學校發展更好的因素。

Okay, great, thank you.

好的，太好了，謝謝。

And relative to relative to the (CA) opportunity, I think there's a fair bit of transparency about maybe what the size of that could be in terms of expansion this year.

相對於（CA）機會，我認為對於今年的擴張規模可能有相當大的透明度。

Can you help us size maybe the plan capacity footprint for some of these OSATs?

您能否幫我們估算一下這些 OSAT 的計畫產能？

Who kind of work in conjunction with the lead customer there, a sense of sort of how much capacity could they be playing to build out this year, next year to kind of help to alleviate the overall industry constraint and also your position reinforce your positioning at OSATs.

誰與那裡的主要客戶合作，了解他們今年和明年可以擴大多少產能，以幫助緩解整個行業的限制，同時您的地位也能鞏固您在 OSAT 中的定位。

Well, it's very hard now to give numbers, what I can tell you from what we see, and what we see and is that we sail, I would say a significant number of machines go to these OSATs.

嗯，現在很難給出數字，從我們看到的情況和我們所看到的以及我們所航行的情況來看，我可以告訴你，有相當數量的機器流向了這些 OSAT。

Now, the point with the OSATs that you don't really know all the applications that they are doing, but it definitely, we are seeing OSATs buying machines from us for these applications.

現在，OSAT 的重點在於你並不真正了解他們正在進行的所有應用程序，但我們確實看到 OSAT 從我們這裡購買用於這些應用程式的機器。

So, yes, the market is broadening.

是的，市場正在擴大。

Now, you need to take into account that all kinds of fabulous companies that you know are just making the entire design by themselves, some of the silicon, they design by themselves, the cheaper to design by themselves and then they buy the, or, buy the HPMs and have the OSA do the full integration of the film manufacturing of the module for them.

現在，您需要考慮到您所知道的各種出色的公司都在自行完成整個設計，其中一些矽片是他們自己設計的，自己設計更便宜，然後他們購買 HPM，並讓 OSA 為他們完成模組薄膜製造的全面集成。

So that's something that is very hard today to track down the capacity, but I think it's going to be a significant capacity in the next couple of years.

所以今天很難追蹤產能，但我認為未來幾年產能將會很大。

Great, maybe just one last question to maybe frame the market.

太好了，也許只需最後一個問題來概括市場。

The there's been some discussion or uncertainty whether the HBM TAM for inspection metrology will increase this year versus last year.

關於今年 HBM 檢測計量的 TAM 是否會比去年增加，存在一些討論或不確定性。

If you're not comfortable maybe providing that update.

如果您不舒服，也許可以提供該更新。

Overall, you, it sounds like you expect the overall TAM for AI packaging or HPC packaging, inclusive of (COA), etc. To increase this year versus last year.

總體而言，您似乎預計今年 AI 封裝或 HPC 封裝（包括 COA 等）的整體 TAM 將比去年增加。

Definitely.

確實。

We definitely expected to increase and you can see the capacity.

我們確實預計會增加，你也能看到容量。

I mean, TSMC are going to double the capacity and they're going to, they are going to be a number of onsets that are going to jump into this area that actually already manufacturing some of them.

我的意思是，台積電將把產能增加一倍，他們將進入這個領域，實際上他們已經在生產其中一些產品。

So this market is going to grow.

因此這個市場將會成長。

One of the building blocks.

構建模組之一。

Please HBM and the more complex the application become and they're going to become more and more complex, you're going to see more and more memory that is required.

請注意 HBM，應用程式變得越複雜，它們就會變得越來越複雜，您會看到所需的記憶體也越來越多。

We've seen from history that whatever memory you provide for your products, the requirement is higher.

我們從歷史中看到，無論你為你的產品提供什麼樣的內存，要求都更高。

So this is a trend that we've seen before.

這是我們以前就見過的趨勢。

I think it will continue.

我認為這種情況將會持續下去。

And definitely, we're just at the beginning of the AI era and see how fast is catching up.

毫無疑問，我們才剛處於人工智慧時代的開始，看看它的發展速度有多快。

A lot of organization of starting to adapt these capabilities.

許多組織開始採用這些功能。

So I think whatever the numbers are, the numbers seem to be solid and as you can hear, we hear that there is not enough capacity in the market to support the requirements of all the companies that are going to go into it.

因此我認為無論數字是多少，這些數字看起來都是可靠的，而且正如你所聽到的，我們聽說市場沒有足夠的容量來滿足所有進入市場的公司的需求。

So, our view that the market is going to grow, there is going to be requirements for more HBM, the available market or the market for these products is going to grow, and we believe that we will grow with it in the foreseeable future.

因此，我們認為市場將會成長，對更多 HBM 的需求將會成長，可用市場或這些產品的市場將會成長，我們相信在可預見的未來我們將隨之成長。

Thanks Ramy.

謝謝拉米。

Thanks, Brian.

謝謝，布萊恩。

Our next question will come from Vivek Arie from Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Vivek Arie。

Please go ahead, Vivek.

請繼續，Vivek。

Hi, this is Michael Monni on for Vivek Aria.

大家好，我是 Vivek Aria 的 Michael Monni。

Thanks so much for taking our questions.

非常感謝您回答我們的問題。

To start, could you give us a sense for between Hawk and Eagle G5, which one will be a bigger contributor to growth this year?

首先，您能否為我們介紹一下 Hawk 和 Eagle G5 哪一個將對今年的成長貢獻更大？

And then maybe a little further out as we think about the competitive landscape, especially as it pertains to what opportunities Hawk can present to you guys.

然後當我們思考競爭格局時，也許會更遠一點，特別是當它涉及到 Hawk 可以為你們帶來什麼機會時。

It seems like these tools should help you gain traction in the 2D market where there's already a strong competitor who participates here but based off your previous experience of product.

這些工具似乎應該可以幫助您在 2D 市場中獲得吸引力，因為該市場已經有一個強大的競爭對手參與其中，但基於您先前的產品經驗。

Cycles and how your customers make allocation decisions.

週期以及您的客戶如何做出分配決策。

What sort of timeline do you expect for any share gains in this market?

您預計這個市場的份額成長需要什麼樣的時間表？

Does it, could it happen more quickly just because of how rigorous the new tech technology requirements are for, some of these upcoming inflections like HBM 4, or do you expect these share gains to unfold more gradually over time?

這是否會因為新技術的要求非常嚴格而更快地發生，例如 HBM 4 等一些即將到來的轉折點，還是您預計這些份額的增長會隨著時間的推移而更加漸進地展開？

Thank you.

謝謝。

On the OGI.

在 OGI 上。

So you can see, I there is a limited information that I can provide here, but I think that from the older sizes that we received from the hawk and you understand that we are getting more orders, so you can understand that it's going to be a substantial number for the Hawk, and I can tell you that it's going for the G5 to be also a substantial number.

所以您可以看到，我在這裡可以提供的資訊有限，但我認為，從我們從 Hawk 收到的舊尺寸來看，您知道我們接到了更多的訂單，所以您可以理解 Hawk 的訂單數量會相當可觀，而且我可以告訴您，G5 的訂單數量也會相當可觀。

However, the Hawk ASP is higher, so it's here and I would say the comparison is not one one.

但是，Hawk ASP 更高，所以在這裡，我想說比較並不是一一的。

But in general, I believe that we will see a comparatively high ramp into production and getting these two products.

但總的來說，我相信我們將看到這兩種產品的產量相對較高。

And the reason for that they provide a better cost of ownership to our customers, they understand it.

他們之所以能為我們的客戶提供更優惠的擁有成本，是因為他們理解這一點。

That's on one side, on the other side, on the hawk side, it open markets and applications that today we don't have and are needed by our customers that will be the second reason of buying these products.

一方面，這是事實；另一方面，從鷹派的角度來看，它打開了今天我們沒有而我們的客戶需要的市場和應用，這將是購買這些產品的第二個原因。

And for the G5, definitely the Eagle is a very popular machine.

對於 G5 來說，Eagle 無疑是一款非常受歡迎的機器。

I would say it's the workhouse of the industry in many of the metrology, but also in many of our, there are many 2D applications.

我想說它是許多計量領域的產業中心，而且在我們的許多應用中也有許多 2D 應用。

In fact, we sell more machines eventually that do 2D then 3D.

事實上，我們最終銷售的 2D 機器比 3D 機器更多。

So, we are very strong.

所以，我們非常強大。

Yes, there is competition in this market and an excellent competition, but we are doing pretty well.

是的，這個市場存在競爭，而且競爭非常激烈，但我們做得很好。

And certain applications we dominate, and we expect to have even a stronger position in the 2D market as a result of the introduction of the Hawk and the G5.

在某些應用領域我們佔據主導地位，我們預計，透過推出 Hawk 和 G5，我們將在 2D 市場中佔據更強勁的地位。

So yes, in fact, it's going to be a pretty, I would say steep ramp into production over the over the first year.

是的，事實上，我想說在第一年產量將大幅提升。

And but to many of our customers and we have thousands of eagle machines from previous generations, some of those customers will not want to change anything.

但對於我們的許多客戶來說，我們擁有數千台前幾代 Eagle 機器，其中一些客戶並不想改變任何東西。

All their production lines, they are very satisfied with what they have, will still continue to buy the regular Eagle, which is a very good machine, and that's how this industry, behaves.

他們對所有生產線都非常滿意，仍將繼續購買常規的 Eagle 機器，這是一款非常好的機器，這個行業就是這樣運作的。

Certain customers are more conservative, or sensitive to making changes, others are willing to make those changes faster.

某些客戶比較保守，或對做出改變比較敏感，而其他客戶則願意更快做出這些改變。

So this is something that we'll see as we move along.

因此這是我們在前進過程中會看到的事情。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

And just a question on the other part of your business, compound semi (seamoss) image sensors, I think last quarter you indicated that there were some green shoots unfolding there, just, did those kind of persist, into this quarter.

關於您業務的另一部分，即複合半（海苔）影像感測器，我想上個季度您曾表示該業務出現了一些綠芽，這些綠芽是否持續到了本季度。

What are your kind of expectations for that market this year?

您對今年的市場有什麼期待？

And if you do have a constructive view, what's really driving the growth there just because as we look at all the various and markets that it's exposed to, right, it, and demand seems to be pretty weak, right now, so, just sending more color there would be appreciated.

如果您確實有建設性的看法，那麼真正推動其增長的因素是什麼？ 因為當我們查看它所涉及的所有各類市場時，我們發現，目前需求似乎相當疲軟，因此，如果您能提供更多詳細信息，我們將不勝感激。

Thank you.

謝謝。

So I think when we look at the, I would say the, at the non-HBC market, so definitely I would say the business is stable there.

因此，我認為，當我們看非 HBC 市場時，我肯定會說那裡的業務是穩定的。

I think most of the applications are stable.

我認為大多數應用程式都是穩定的。

There isn't now an application that is growing very fast, and the reason for that is the consumer goods in general.

現在還沒有一個應用程式成長非常快，原因就是一般的消費品。

Are not growing there.

那裡沒有生長。

There isn't an application there that is growing very fast.

那裡還沒有增長非常快的應用程式。

We do see some improvement on the sea moss market.

我們確實看到海苔市場有所改善。

Apparently there are new sensors and the, so there is, I would say some demand coming from the SIMOS market, and the CIA, the SIMOS Image sensors market, if I want to compare it to last year, I think when you look at the silicon carbide market, it's stable.

顯然有新的感測器，因此，我想說來自 SIMOS 市場和 CIA、SIMOS 影像感測器市場有一些需求，如果我想將其與去年進行比較，我認為當你看碳化矽市場時，它是穩定的。

The reason, I would say huge growth there.

我覺得原因在於那裡有巨大的成長。

There's a lot of capacity out there that I think will take some time to digest it, and we'll continue to see some business, but I don't think there will be a major growth.

我認為現在有很多產能需要花一些時間來消化，我們會繼續看到一些業務，但我不認為會大幅成長。

I would say that the Non-advanced packaging, which is about 30% of our business, will grow next year, very much in line of what the industry expectations are, but most I would say the growth is going to come from the high performance computing and other advanced packaging, I would say the more traditional advanced packaging application such as fan out and others that continue to grow.

我想說的是，非先進封裝（約占我們業務的30％）明年將會增長，非常符合行業預期，但我想說大部分增長將來自高效能運算和其他先進封裝，我想說更傳統的先進封裝應用，例如扇出型和其他應用將繼續增長。

Michael, that answers all your questions.

邁克爾，這回答了你所有的問題。

Yes, it does.

是的。

Thanks so much.

非常感謝。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Our next question will be from Craig Ellis.

我們的下一個問題來自 Craig Ellis。

Craig or Stacey, please go ahead from B. Riley, sorry.

克雷格 (Craig) 或史黛西 (Stacey)，請從 B 開始。

Yes, thank you.

是的，謝謝。

This is Stacy asking for Craig, and thank you for taking the question.

我是史泰西 (Stacy)，代表克雷格 (Craig) 提問，感謝您回答這個問題。

And I was wondering if you can discuss a little bit about the digestion risk and also the magnitude of it in HBM and or COAS and if it's related to (inundry) or OSA or kind of both.

我想知道您是否可以討論消化風險以及它在 HBM 和/或 COAS 中的程度，以及它是否與（範圍）或 OSA 相關，或者兩者都相關。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, let me, Stacey, this is Ramy.

好吧，讓我來，史黛西，這是拉米。

Let me try and answer and maybe Ray and Moshe will jump in.

讓我嘗試回答一下，也許 Ray 和 Moshe 會參與其中。

In general, when we look at the HBC market, we see a very solid business going into next year.

總體而言，當我們觀察 HBC 市場時，我們會看到明年的業務將會非常穩健。

We have, as we said in the prepared notes, and we see a solid 50% of our business is going to go into this market.

正如我們在準備好的說明中所說的那樣，我們看到我們 50% 的業務將進入這個市場。

And the overall, specifically regarding the HDM, yes, we are going to ship it to the HDM segment, a significant orders that we already have on hand for the first half of '25 and we will deliver and install those machines and So all in all, we don't see a digestion on the contrary, understanding what TSMC is going to double the capacity with all the increased capacities in the different OSATs, and we are actually shipping machines for 02 OSATs and we will ship, including in the first half of this year.

總體而言，特別是關於 HDM，是的，我們將把它運送到 HDM 部門，這是我們手頭上已經有的 25 年上半年的重要訂單，我們將交付和安裝這些機器，總而言之，我們沒有看到消化，相反，我們了解台積電將隨著不同 OSAT 的產能增加而使產能翻倍，我們實際上正在為 02 OSAT 機器上運送半年。

So, we are seeing the market expanding, the business is healthy, there is a lot of interest.

因此，我們看到市場在擴大，業務在健康，人們的興趣濃厚。

There might be some for other people, at least we don't experience it.

對其他人來說也許有，但至少我們沒有經歷過。

There could be some customer related concerns, but when we look at the entire industry, as we serve all the customers, we feel very good about this market as we enter 2025.

可能會有一些與客戶相關的擔憂，但當我們放眼整個行業時，由於我們為所有客戶提供服務，因此我們對進入 2025 年的這個市場感到非常樂觀。

Rafi, you want to add something?

拉菲，你想補充一點嗎？

No, I think you'll cover it very well.

不，我想你會講得很好。

Okay, yeah, thank you.

好的，是的，謝謝你。

And if I can add a follow up is can you also talk about the, maybe the backlog levels through four Q and one Q to date and the composition of those by and usage and if possible, some degree of visibility maybe through the, throughout the year in 2025.

如果我可以補充一點的話，您能否談談迄今為止四個季度和一個季度的積壓水平，以及這些積壓水平的組成和使用情況，如果可能的話，也許可以談談 2025 年全年的某種程度的可見性。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay, so, we.

好的，那麼，我們。

What we can comment on the backlog in general is that we have a very strong backlog for the first half of the year.

我們對積壓訂單的整體評價是，今年上半年我們的積壓訂單非常強勁。

And the second half is starting to build up.

下半場已經開始勢頭強勁。

It's very, and for the first half, let me just complete that, we said that 50% will go to HBC.

這是非常，對於前半部分，讓我補充一下，我們說 50％ 將捐給 HBC。

For the second half, it's starting to build up.

到了下半場，情況開始好轉。

It is much too early to say, to talk about the composition of the backlog or to give a feeling on the actual numbers in the second half of this year, and this is very typical to our business.

現在談論積壓訂單的組成或對今年下半年的實際數字的感覺還為時過早，這對我們的業務來說非常典型。

And as the lead times, are three to six months, so still we're starting to build up.

由於交貨時間為三至六個月，因此我們仍在開始建造。

I think we will be in a position to understand the thing, the third quarter in our next call, but I think at this stage, I think we feel that next year, this coming year, the '25 will be a growth year.

我認為我們將能夠在下次電話會議中了解第三季的情況，但我認為在現階段，我們認為明年，即將到來的一年，2025年將是成長的一年。

We feel very well about the business and, but still the second half to really try and give, more color on it, it's a little bit too early.

我們對這項業務感覺很好，但是下半年仍需要真正嘗試並給予更多的色彩，現在還為時過早。

Got it.

知道了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Stacy.

謝謝，史黛西。

Our next question is going to be from Vedvati Shrotre from Evercore Vatti, you can go ahead and ask your questions.

我們的下一個問題來自 Evercore Vatti 的 Vedvati Shrotre，您可以繼續提問。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

The first one I have is, how should we think about the, your revenues versus the cost capacity that's being added.

我的第一個問題是，我們應該如何考慮你的收入與增加的成本容量。

So if I go through TSMC CapEx on advanced packaging, it's doubling from $3 billion to $6 billion.

因此，如果我查看台積電在先進封裝上的資本支出，它將從 30 億美元增加一倍至 60 億美元。

Does that mean your revenues from cos double as well, as we go into 2025?

這是否意味著到 2025 年，您從 COS 獲得的收入也會翻倍？

Is that a fair interpretation?

這是一個合理的解釋嗎？

So, okay, so.

那麼，好的，那樣的話。

Let me, let's talk about how the business builds.

讓我來談談業務如何建構。

Definitely the capacity that was installed in '24 is now serving the market.

毫無疑問，24 年安裝的產能現在正在服務市場。

So part of the growth in '25 is built on the capacity that was built, that was already built in '24, and this will go on.

因此，25 年的部分成長是建立在 24 年已經建成的產能之上的，而且這種情況還會持續下去。

So the capacity that we are going to install in the first half, I assume, will still be installed and serve the growth in the second half of '25.

因此，我估計我們上半年安裝的產能仍將繼續安裝，並滿足25年下半年的成長需求。

What will be shipped in most of the second half will probably affect the tail end of this year and really contribute in '26.

下半年大部分出貨量可能會對今年年底產生影響，並在26年真正產生影響。

And this is how this industry works.

這就是這個行業的運作方式。

It's true for the COAs capacity, it's true for the HBM it's true for most of the building blocks.

對於 COA 容量來說這是正確的，對於 HBM 來說這是正確的，對於大多數構建塊來說也是正確的。

So we, I think in my mind, should look at the second half of this year, what will be shipped out, a lot of it will be served for the first half of '26.

因此，我認為，我們應該看看今年下半年將會運出哪些貨物，其中許多貨物將在2026年上半年交付。

And I think the additional capacity of what TSMC are adding and the OSATs, some of it will still, end up in this year am will again go to '26.

我認為台積電和 OSAT 增加的額外產能，其中一部分仍將在今年內達到 26%。

Understood.

明白了。

And then for my follow up, as you ram Eagle G5 and hawk products, how should we think about cross margins from here?

然後，我的後續問題是，當您推出 Eagle G5 和 Hawk 產品時，我們應該如何考慮交叉利潤？

So, I think as we are ramping these products, they are definitely a creative from day one and specifically about the hawk and I think we discussed it in previous calls, we definitely expect the Hawk to have a positive growth impact on our gross margin in '26.

因此，我認為，隨著我們推出這些產品，它們從第一天起就絕對具有創意，特別是關於鷹，我想我們在之前的電話會議中討論過這個問題，我們肯定預計鷹會對我們'26年的毛利率產生積極的增長影響。

So maybe just, to clarify, Vvati, overall, the hawk and the Gen 5 has a positive impact on the gross margin and then they are creative to the gross margin.

因此，也許只是為了澄清一下，Vvati，總體而言，Hawk 和 Gen 5 對毛利率產生了積極影響，然後它們對毛利率產生了創造力。

However, as we are ramping the production this year, most of the impact, to the gross margin level.

然而，由於我們今年正在擴大產量，大部分影響都集中在毛利率水準。

You will see it only in 2026.

你得等到 2026 年才能看到它。

This year we are kind of ramping the production, streaming, streamlining the processes, and next year you will see the benefit and the contribution to the growth market.

今年我們正在增加產量、串流媒體和簡化流程，明年你會看到我們獲得的利益以及對成長市場的貢獻。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Betty.

謝謝，貝蒂。

Our next question is going to be from Gus Richard of Northlands.

我們的下一個問題來自 Northlands 的 Gus Richard。

Gus, you may go ahead and ask.

格斯，你可以繼續問。

Very much for squeezing me in here.

非常感謝您擠我來這裡。

As you walk through the AI ecosystem, a couple of major players that are doing their own chips have moved to Chilets this generation.

當你回顧 AI 生態系統時，你會發現一些主要參與者已經在開發自己的晶片，而這一代他們已經轉向了 Chilets。

The hyper-scalers, the revenue is constrained by their capacity and their data centers.

超大規模企業的收入受到其容量和資料中心的限制。

And when you look at it looks like the new process.

當您觀察時，它看起來就像一個新的過程。

COAS is what's sort of limiting the output of chips and servers, etc. And so my question is, what's slowing the ramp?

COAS 在某種程度上限制了晶片和伺服器等產品的產量。

Is it facilities?

是設施嗎？

Is it somebody else's equipment?

這是別人的設備嗎？

Is it, OSAT's coming up, can can kinda help us.

是的，OSAT 即將出現，可以為我們帶來一些幫助。

Understand What's going on there?

明白那裡發生什麼事了嗎？

So, guys, for us, it's very hard to know who is the limiting factor is, but at least, from our view, things are starting, to pick up, you see there's a lot of additional capacity, and so I think they will catch up pretty quickly.

所以，夥計們，對我們來說，很難知道誰是限制因素，但至少，從我們的角度來看，事情已經開始好轉，你看有很多額外的能力，所以我認為他們會很快趕上來。

I expect them to catch up in these areas in the first half of this year, I believe they will catch up with most.

我預計他們在今年上半年會在這些領域趕上來，我相信他們會趕上大多數。

Of the capacity and we will start to see hopefully the ramp for these guys in the second half of '25, as Rafi alluded to in his comments, or early in '26, but definitely all of these guys are going to add more and more, we need more and more capacity that will definitely increase the potential opportunity for us.

就產能而言，我們希望能在 25 年下半年或 26 年初看到這些傢伙的產能上升，就像拉菲在評論中提到的那樣，但肯定所有這些傢伙都會增加越來越多的產能，我們需要越來越多的產能，這肯定會增加我們的潛在機會。

Yeah, and I would like to add one more comment on that.

是的，我想對此再補充一則評論。

You have to consider that also the COA says like third generation, second generation try to improve the technology.

您還必須考慮到 COA 中所說的第三代、第二代都試圖改進技術。

They realize that the size of the chip is too big, so they have to think about maybe some using more combination of organic and silicon.

他們意識到晶片的尺寸太大，所以他們必須考慮使用更多有機和矽的組合。

So, there are also a lot of R&D involved in this product because they want, to be more efficient and getting better yield and answer to the density and other capability.

因此，該產品也涉及大量的研發，因為他們希望提高效率並獲得更好的產量並滿足密度和其他能力的要求。

So it's not easy for us to understand how long it takes to make this process to be mature process with high yield and move to high volume.

因此，我們很難了解需要多長時間才能使該製程成熟、具有高產量並實現量產。

But definitely we can see that the investment, we can see the new building and the construction, and it's amazing if you just go and walk in some places, you see the amount of building.

但我們確實可以看到投資，我們可以看到新建築和施工，如果你去一些地方走走，你會看到建築的數量，這真是令人驚嘆。

Wow, it's a big wow to see this investment.

哇，看到這項投資真是令人驚訝。

So definitely it will be converted to production and high volume.

因此它肯定會轉化為生產並且大批量生產。

If it takes six months or three months or nine months, we really cannot estimate right now.

到底要六個月、三個月還是九個月，我們現在真的無法估計。

Okay.

好的。

And then just looking beyond AI and HPC there, there's some evidence that maybe in 2026, some of the mobile guys might move to triplets rather than move to 2 nanometer.

除了 AI 和 HPC 之外，有證據表明，也許在 2026 年，一些行動製造商可能會轉向三奈米而不是 2 奈米。

I'm wondering if that's another driver of growth for you into '26 or, it's not something you have visibility into.

我想知道這是否會成為您在26年的另一個成長動力，或者這不是您所能看到的。

We don't have a visibility, but I think any move to achievements is very positive for us.

我們沒有預見性，但我認為任何取得成就的舉措對我們來說都是非常積極的。

Got it.

知道了。

And then just the last one for me, if I was your most favored customer and needed a system as soon as possible, where would you slot me in at this point?

對我來說只剩下最後一個問題了，如果我是您最受青睞的客戶，並且需要盡快獲得一個系統，您會把我安排在哪裡呢？

Well, that.It's a difficult question because you are close to us, but so, look, I would say it depends really on the configuration and the specific models.

嗯，那是。

So if you come from a regular eagle, we will do it sometimes even in weeks.

因此，如果您來自普通老鷹，我們有時甚至需要數週才能完成。

If you come to the G5, it will probably be two months if somebody really needs a very quick machine.

如果你來到 G5，如果有人真的需要一台非常快的機器，可能要兩個月的時間。

On the hawk, it will take longer and it and it's really is the complexity of the machine, the configuration.

對於 Hawk 來說，這需要更長的時間，而且這確實是機器和配置的複雜性。

There are lots of aspects are coming too.

還有很多方面即將發生。

So, but yes, we will always, find a slot for one of the important customers that needs a machine, ASP will turn the world around to make it happen.

所以，是的，我們總是會為需要機器的重要客戶找到一個位置，ASP 將扭轉世界來實現這一目標。

But obviously, this is very small number of machines.

但顯然，這樣的機器數量非常少。

When you go to the larger orders that are three to six months in their time.

當你處理較大的訂單時，他們的處理時間需要三到六個月。

Got it.

知道了。

Perfect.

完美的。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

That was very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Gus.

謝謝，格斯。

Our next question is from Shahar Cohen of Lucid Capital.

我們的下一個問題來自 Lucid Capital 的 Shahar Cohen。

Shahar, you may go ahead and ask your question.

Shahar，你可以繼續提問。

To the other players.

對於其他玩家來說。

I want to ask about the HBM or the mini HBM opportunity in mobile, we have seen what is called LLW DRAM.

我想問一下行動領域的 HBM 或 mini HBM 機會，我們已經看到了所謂的 LLW DRAM。

We have seen both HX and Samsung adopting, this mini HBM and we heard maybe some of the IN phones may include this kind of stuff in 2026 anticipating, the AI phone which will have some requirement of better bandwidth between the memory and the, and this, and the GP and the CPO the sock.

我們看到 HX 和三星都採用了這種迷你 HBM，而且我們聽說也許一些 IN 手機可能會在 2026 年包含這種東西，預計 AI 手機將要求內存和 GP 以及 CPO 襪子之間有更好的頻寬。

So.

所以。

Can you speak about this opportunity for you guys and how should, is it more like end of 2025 or 2026 and just the significance of that opportunity.

您能否談談這個對你們來說的機會？

So hi Shaha.

你好，Shaha。

I think this specific DRAM, it's still more under production.

我認為這種特定的 DRAM 仍在生產中。

It will take some time until it will turn into I would say a real opportunity for us.

我想說，這需要一段時間才能變成我們的真正機會。

From our point of view, It's not, there is nothing here that we need, especially to develop for it.

從我們的角度來看，事實並非如此，這裡沒有我們需要的東西，尤其是為此進行開發。

This is a kind of device that will have the micro bumps on it.

這是一種帶有微型凸塊的裝置。

It's a really typical, I would say advanced packaging.

我想說這是一種非常典型的先進封裝。

Yes, it's a challenging one, but it's definitely within the capabilities of our machines.

是的，這是一個挑戰，但這絕對在我們的機器的能力範圍內。

But in general, I think the, if you ask me about mobile phones, I think this is more '26 and beyond capabilities and still we will see this kind of a, of an application ramping up.

但總的來說，如果你問我關於手機的問題，我認為這更多的是『26』及超越的能力，我們仍然會看到這種應用程式的興起。

I don't think it is, at least in my mind, it's not immediate.

我不這麼認為，至少在我看來，這不是立即的。

And if it will be 2026, it's going to be significant.

如果能到 2026 年，那將具有重大意義。

It depends on the number of cell phones, they will adapt it and so I think it is too early in the name, it's too early in the game, but look, in general, I think we discussed it in our prepared notes.

這取決於手機的數量，他們會對其進行調整，所以我認為現在說這個名字還為時過早，在遊戲中也為時過早，但總的來說，我認為我們在準備好的筆記中討論過這個問題。

Today, the application is very centered around servers and therefore it's a lot of hardware in it and you can see the size of the business it is very significant.

如今，應用程式主要以伺服器為中心，因此其中包含大量硬件，您可以看到其業務規模非常可觀。

As AI will go into cars, will go into robotics, and these are probably the next two things that will, will see these technologies and then go to PCs that it's really a factor more and eventually go to cell phones.

人工智慧將進入汽車領域，進入機器人領域，這可能是接下來的兩大領域，這些技術將進入個人電腦領域，這將成為更重要的因素，並最終進入手機領域。

So the more applications for us, it will create a very big op opportunity.

因此，對我們來說，應用程式越多，就越能創造巨大的營運機會。

So long term, yes, all of these things will adopt these technologies one way or another.

所以從長遠來看，是的，所有這些事物都會以某種方式採用這些技術。

And we definitely believe and see that this is an area, the HBM as part of the COAS, as part of a module, an AI module is going to be a very big business for us.

我們確實相信並看到，這是一個領域，HBM 作為 COAS 的一部分，作為模組的一部分，AI 模組對我們來說將是一項非常大的業務。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Shaka.

謝謝，沙卡。

That ends our question and answer session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

Before I hand back to Raffi for his closing statement, I would like to let you all know that in the coming hours we will upload the recording of this conference call to the investor relations section of Cantek's website at Camteck.com. I'd like to thank everybody for joining this call, and we will see you next quarter, and I would now like to hand back to Rafi for your closing statement.

在我將電話會議的發言交還給拉菲 (Raffi) 之前，我想讓大家知道，在接下來的幾個小時內，我們會將本次電話會議的錄音上傳到 Cantek 網站 (Camteck.com) 的投資者關係部分。我要感謝大家參加這次電話會議，我們將在下個季度再見，現在我想把電話交給拉菲作結束語。

Raffi, please go ahead.

拉菲，請繼續。

Okay, I want to express my gratitude to all of you for your ongoing interest in our business.

好的，我想對大家對我們業務的持續關注表示感謝。

Special thanks goes to our employees and management team for their outstanding performances.

特別感謝我們的員工和管理團隊的出色表現。

To our investor, I appreciate your long term support.

對於我們的投資者，我感謝您長期以來的支持。

I look forward to our next conversation in the upcoming quarter.

我期待我們在下一季的下一次對話。

Thank you and goodbye.

謝謝你，再見。