BW LPG Ltd (BWLP) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone. A warm welcome to BW LPG's Q2 2025 Earnings Presentation. My name is Aline Anliker, and I'm the Head of Corporate Communications at BW LPG. Today's presentation will be given by our CEO, Kristian Sorensen; and our CFO, Samantha Xu. After the presentation, we will have a Q&A session. (Operator Instructions)

大家好。熱烈歡迎 BW LPG 2025 年第二季財報。我叫 Aline Anliker，是 BW LPG 的企業傳播主管。今天的演講將由我們的執行長 Kristian Sorensen 和我們的財務長 Samantha Xu 進行。演講結束後，我們將進行問答環節。（操作員指示）

Before we begin, I would like to highlight the legal disclaimers displayed on the current slide. Please also note that today's call is being recorded.

在我們開始之前，我想強調一下目前投影片上顯示的法律免責聲明。另請注意，今天的通話正在錄音。

And without further ado, I would now like to hand over to our CEO, Kristian.

不用多說，現在我想把時間交給我們的執行長克里斯蒂安 (Kristian)。

Thank you, Aline, and hello, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to be with us today as we review our second quarter financial results and recent developments. So let's turn to slide 4, please. The second quarter was marked by extraordinary geopolitical and market events, which substantially increased the market volatility, both for shipping and trading.

謝謝你，艾琳，大家好，感謝你們今天抽出時間與我們一起回顧我們第二季度的財務業績和最近的發展。請翻到幻燈片 4。第二季度出現了許多非同尋常的地緣政治和市場事件，大大增加了航運和貿易市場的波動性。

For the quarter, we reported a TCE income of $38,800 per available day and $37,300 per calendar day, above our guidance of $35,000 per day. In a quarter with spot rates fluctuating between $10,000 and $70,000 per day, the time charter portfolio played a vital role in protecting our downside. After minority interests, the Q2 profit was $35 million, equivalent to an EPS of $0.23.

本季度，我們報告的 TCE 收入為每可用日 38,800 美元和每日曆日 37,300 美元，高於我們預期的每天 35,000 美元。在現貨價格每天在 10,000 美元至 70,000 美元之間波動的季度中，定期租船組合在保護我們的下行風險方面發揮了至關重要的作用。扣除少數股東權益後，第二季獲利為 3,500 萬美元，相當於每股收益 0.23 美元。

And the Board of Directors has declared dividends of $0.22 per share, consisting of 75% of our shipping NPAT, topped up with retained dividends from product services 2024 results. Moving on to our trading operations. Product services achieved a gross profit of $15 million and a profit after tax of $6 million. Samantha will take you through the details later in the presentation.

董事會已宣布派發每股 0.22 美元的股息，其中包括我們航運稅後淨利的 75%，再加上 2024 年產品服務業績的留存股息。繼續我們的交易業務。產品服務實現毛利1500萬美元，稅後利潤600萬美元。薩曼莎將在稍後的演示中向您詳細介紹。

And it's important to keep in mind that it is the realized result, which generates product services dividend capacity. As of 30th June, the aggregated realized result for the first half of 2025 is $39 million. Further on our shipping activities, 2025 is a busy dry-docking year for us. And in the second quarter, we had 139-days related to vessels dry-docking.

重要的是要記住，這是實現的結果，它產生了產品服務紅利能力。截至 6 月 30 日，2025 年上半年累計實現業績為 3,900 萬美元。就我們的航運活動而言，2025 年對我們來說是繁忙的乾船塢年。第二季度，我們的船舶乾船塢維修時間長達 139 天。

In the second half of the year, we expect 143 and 135 days, respectively, for Q3 and Q4. These numbers should be noted since the impact our revenue-generating potential on top of the dry-docking cost itself. For the third quarter, we're guiding on about $53,000 per day fixed for 90% of our available days. These are solid levels above our all-in cash breakeven of $24,800 per day.

下半年，我們預計第三季和第四季的銷售時間分別為 143 天和 135 天。應該注意這些數字，因為它們除了乾船塢成本本身之外還會影響我們的創收潛力。對於第三季度，我們預計 90% 的可用天數的固定收入約為每天 53,000 美元。這些水準穩固地高於我們每天 24,800 美元的全現金損益平衡點。

On the asset side, BW Yushi was added to our own fleet in June after we declared a very lucrative purchase option earlier this year. On financing, we finalized a $380 million term loan and revolving credit facility to finance the Avance Gas fleet and secured a $215 million term loan facility for BW LPG India fleet. Our $250 million shareholder loan from BW Group was terminated earlier due to ample liquidity.

在資產方面，我們在今年早些時候宣布了一項非常有利可圖的購買選擇，BW Yushi 於今年 6 月加入我們自己的船隊。在融資方面，我們敲定了一筆 3.8 億美元的定期貸款和循環信貸額度，為 Avance Gas 船隊提供資金，並為 BW LPG India 船隊獲得了 2.15 億美元的定期貸款額度。由於流動性充足，我們從 BW 集團獲得的 2.5 億美元股東貸款已提前終止。

But now that Q2 is over, the focus is on the second half of 2025, which has started off on a strong note. So let's turn to the next slide, please. The current VLGC market is characterized by solid fundamentals with robust growth in export volumes from the US, supported by high domestic LPG production and ongoing terminal expansions. The Middle East volumes are also slightly up, backed by a reversal of the OPEC cuts.

但現在第二季已經結束，焦點集中在 2025 年下半年，該季度開局強勁。請翻到下一張投影片。當前超大型液化石油氣市場基本面穩健，美國出口量強勁成長，得益於美國國內液化石油氣產量高以及持續的碼頭擴建。受石油輸出國組織 (OPEC) 減產政策逆轉的影響，中東地區的石油產量也略有上升。

The extraordinary factor is how inefficiencies in the LPG trade pattern have absorbed substantial shipping capacity in recent months. The first such inefficiency emerged after China imposed retaliatory tariffs on US sourced LPG, which led to a significant reshuffling of US. export volumes away from China and into other parts of Asia.

特別之處在於，近幾個月來液化石油氣貿易模式的低效率吸收了大量的運輸能力。第一次出現這種低效率現像是在中國對美國液化石油氣徵收報復性關稅之後，導緻美國出口量從中國轉向亞洲其他地區。

The sudden shift of US volumes toward India and Southeast Asia, combined with the redirection of Middle East volumes to China rather than India, absorbed considerable capacity from VLGC fleet and pushed rates up. The short but intense Israeli-Iran conflict also fueled spot rates for ships loading around that period in the Middle East.

美國貨運量突然轉向印度和東南亞，加上中東貨運量從印度轉向中國，這吸收了 VLGC 船隊的大量運力，推高了運費。短暫而激烈的以色列與伊朗衝突也推高了中東地區該時期裝貨船舶的現貨價格。

Now trade patterns are slowly returning to pre-trade war flows, but the Panama Canal has once again become a bottleneck as growing traffic from container ships, ethane carriers and other prioritized or high-paying segments strains capacity. The consequence has been more VLGCs routing around South Africa, which significantly impacts the ton mile for the global VLGC fleets, making fewer ships available, which in turn is pushing rates up.

現在，貿易模式正在慢慢恢復到貿易戰前的水平，但巴拿馬運河再次成為瓶頸，因為貨櫃船、乙烷運輸船和其他優先或高薪航段的運輸量不斷增長，給運力造成了壓力。結果是更多的 VLGC 繞道南非航行，嚴重影響了全球 VLGC 船隊的噸位英里數，導致可用船舶數量減少，進而推高了運費。

In addition, the global fleet growth is at a low level with 409 ships currently in service and only seven more to be delivered in 2025. We keep an eye on the LPG FFA market, which is currently pricing the balance of 2025 at an equivalent of low $60,000 per day for the Middle East, Japan benchmark leg. Next slide, please. This slide shows how the LPG market dynamics played out after the Chinese retaliatory tariffs were implemented.

此外，全球船隊成長處於較低水平，目前服役船舶為409艘，2025年僅交付7艘。我們密切關注 LPG FFA 市場，目前該市場對 2025 年中東、日本基準航線的定價相當於每天約 6 萬美元。請看下一張投影片。這張投影片展示了中國實施報復性關稅後液化石油氣市場動態。

The US LPG export volumes shifted from Chinese destinations to India, but also Japan took a big chunk of the rerouted cargoes. US LPG exports to India were above 1 million tonnes in the second quarter of 2025 compared to less than 100,000 tonnes for the entire 2024. Middle Eastern volumes also played a key role by replacing US cargoes to China and thereby redirecting traditional cargo flows for India to longer-haul destinations in China and absorbing more shipping capacity.

美國液化石油氣出口量從中國轉向印度，但日本也吸收了大量改道貨物。2025 年第二季度，美國對印度的液化石油氣出口量超過 100 萬噸，而 2024 年全年出口量不到 10 萬噸。中東地區的貨運量也發揮了關鍵作用，取代了美國對中國的貨物，從而將印度的傳統貨運流轉向了中國的長途目的地，並吸收了更多的運輸能力。

Furthermore, China substituted US LPG with cargoes from Canada and Australia, a trend that we see continues. All in all, the massive reshuffling of cargoes that took place was creating substantial inefficiencies in the LPG supply chain, which required more shipping capacity and moved rates up. The trade pattern is now pivoting towards the pre-liberation day structure in anticipation for a trade deal between the US and China. But the Panama Canal has created new inefficiencies for the fleets.

此外，中國用來自加拿大和澳洲的液化石油氣取代了美國的液化石油氣，我們看到這種趨勢仍在持續。總而言之，貨物的大規模重新調整導致液化石油氣供應鏈效率低下，需要更多的運輸能力並導致運費上漲。為了迎接中美貿易協議，貿易模式目前正轉向解放前的結構。但巴拿馬運河卻為船隊帶來了新的效率低下問題。

Next slide, please. In 2023, '24, we all spent significant time analyzing the Panama Canal dynamics. Now with the canal regaining relevance, it's worth revisiting its key aspects driving our markets. The new Panama Canal locks have a daily capacity of around 10 ships in total combined for both directions. VLGCs have over the last years, taken up between two and three of these 10 transit slots.

請看下一張投影片。2023年、2024年，我們都花了大量時間分析巴拿馬運河的動態。如今，隨著運河重新獲得重要性，值得重新審視其推動我們市場發展的關鍵面向。新的巴拿馬運河船閘每日可通行雙向船舶共約 10 艘。過去幾年中，VLGC 已佔據這 10 個過境時段中的 2 到 3 個。

As previously explained, VLGCs are not prioritized through the canal during periods of increased traffic. So when waiting times become excessive or auction fees for available slots are prohibitively high, the alternative is to route vessels around the Cape of Good Hope. And this rerouting increases sailing distances by up to 50% compared with the Panama Canal route to Northeast Asia and has an immediate and material impact on the VLGC market by raising demand from tonnage to offset the longer voyages.

如前所述，在交通量增加期間，VLGC 不會優先通過運河。因此，當等待時間過長或可用艙位拍賣費用過高時，另一種選擇就是讓船隻繞過好望角。與巴拿馬運河通往東北亞的航線相比，此次改道將使航行距離增加 50%，並透過增加噸位需求來抵消更長的航程，對 VLGC 市場產生直接而實質的影響。

Monitoring developments in the Panama Canal will therefore be important in assessing the direction of the VLGC freight rates going forward. The increased demand for shipping capacity is $70,000 per day for loading in the US Gulf. As you can see from the graphs on this page, shipping is currently capturing almost all the profit in moving cargoes from the US Gulf to the Far East, and there is very little room left for profit on the cargo price itself.

因此，監測巴拿馬運河的發展對於評估未來 VLGC 運費的走向至關重要。運輸能力需求的增加使美國墨西哥灣的裝貨成本達到每天 7 萬美元。從本頁的圖表中可以看出，航運目前幾乎佔據了將貨物從美國墨西哥灣運往遠東的所有利潤，而貨物價格本身的利潤空間非常小。

Driven by increased export volumes and the aforementioned inefficiencies is growing faster than the capacity of the VLGC fleet. And the upcoming export terminal expansions will likely lend support to shipping share of the US Far East arbitrage. In the LPG value chain, there is a daily arm wrestling going on between terminals, cargo owners and the shipping market on capturing as much as possible of the price difference between the US and the landed price in Asia.

受出口量增加和上述低效率的影響，VLGC 船隊的運能成長速度更快。而即將進行的出口碼頭擴建可能會為美國遠東套利的航運份額提供支援。在液化石油氣價值鏈中，碼頭、貨主和航運市場之間每天都在展開角力，盡可能捕捉美國和亞洲到岸價格之間的差價。

For the time being, the supply-demand balance in the VLGC market is tight and the bargaining power is in the shipping market's favor. On that note, I'd like to remind you how this may impact the Q3 accounting result for product services since the change in the mark-to-market valuation of their shipping portfolio is not captured in the P&L, while forward cargo and paper positions are included.

目前VLGC市場供需平衡緊張，航運市場議價能力有利。關於這一點，我想提醒您，這可能會對產品服務的第三季會計結果產生影響，因為其航運組合的市價估值變化並未計入損益表，而遠期貨物和紙質頭寸則包含在內。

Looking ahead on this slide, the US export volumes are forecasted to continue growing on the back of increased production of LPG. The crude oil wells in the Permian Basin are more gaseous than we expected some years ago, and the gas production is forecasted to grow at least twice as much annually as the crude oil production, where lower growth figures are expected in the next five years period.

展望未來，預計美國出口量將因液化石油氣產量增加而持續成長。二疊紀盆地的原油井含氣量比我們幾年前預期的要高，預計天然氣產量的年增長率至少是原油產量的兩倍，而未來五年原油產量的增長率預計會較低。

The growth in US LPG exports is supported by several terminal expansions from now into 2028, and Energy Transfer has already started their LPG exports from their Nederland terminal expansion. Moving over to the Middle East. The export growth is forecasted to accelerate next year with Qatar leading the way as well as Abu Dhabi. Neighboring Saudi Arabia, the Jafurah project is worth keeping an eye on.

從現在到 2028 年，美國液化石油氣出口的成長將受到多個終端擴建計畫的支持，Energy Transfer 已開始從其位於荷蘭的終端擴建計畫出口液化石油氣。轉向中東。預計明年出口成長將會加速，卡達和阿布達比將引領這一趨勢。鄰國沙烏地阿拉伯的Jafurah計畫值得關注。

Although it's further out in time, the size of the LPG volumes made available for exports are potentially adding another 5 million to 10 million tonnes of LPG to the growing volumes from the Middle East. On the fleet and new building front, there is a little new to report, and the order book counts 111 additional vessels to the current fleet of 409 vessels where about 15% equal to 60 ships and thereabouts are older than 20 years.

儘管時間尚遠，但可供出口的液化石油氣數量可能為中東不斷增加的液化石油氣出口量再增加 500 萬至 1,000 萬噸。在船隊和新船建造方面，有一些新消息要報告，訂單簿上顯示現有 409 艘船，新增 111 艘船，其中約 15% 相當於 60 艘船，船齡超過 20 年。

And then it's over to you, Samantha.

接下來輪到你了，莎曼珊。

Thank you, Kristian, and hello, everyone. Let's dive into our shipping performance. The second quarter of 2025 completed with a TCE of $37,300 per calendar day or $38,800 per available day, over 94% fleet utilization after deducting technical off-hire and waiting time. The healthy result achieved in a volatile market was a strong testament to our commercial strategy, consistently taking on time charter and FFA for coverage in a strong market to provide support when spot market are under pressure.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安，大家好。讓我們深入了解我們的運輸表現。2025 年第二季的 TCE 為每日曆日 37,300 美元或每可用日 38,800 美元，扣除技術停租和等待時間後，車隊利用率超過 94%。在動盪的市場中取得的健康表現有力地證明了我們的商業策略，即在強勁的市場中持續採用定期租船和FFA承保，以便在現貨市場承受壓力時提供支援。

In Q2, the time charter portfolio was 44% of the total shipping exposure, among which 32% is fixed rate time charter. Looking ahead for Q3, we have fixed 90% of the available fleet days at an average rate of about $53,000 per day. For second half '25, we have secured 34% of our portfolio with fixed rate time charter and FFA hedged, respectively, at $45,200 and $51,700 per day.

第二季度，定期租船組合佔總航運風險敞口的 44%，其中 32% 為固定費率定期租船。展望第三季度，我們已固定了 90% 的可用船隊天數，平均費率約為每天 53,000 美元。2025 年下半年，我們已透過固定利率定期租船和 FFA 對沖獲得了 34% 的投資組合，分別為每天 45,200 美元和 51,700 美元。

Our time charter out-fleet is estimated to generate a profit of around $9 million over our time charter-in fleet. On top of that, the balance of our fixed time charter out portfolio is estimated to generate $74 million. On the Product Services side, the business posted a realized gain of $6 million for Q2. The positive result reflected a disciplined approach and effective risk management in a volatile quarter.

我們的定期租出船隊預計比定期租入船隊產生約 900 萬美元的利潤。除此之外，我們的定期租船組合餘額預計將產生 7,400 萬美元的收入。在產品服務方面，該業務第二季實現收益 600 萬美元。這一積極成果體現了動盪時期的嚴謹態度和有效的風險管理。

On the unrealized open positions, we reported a $12 million increase in mark-to-market on our cargo position, which was offset by a negative movement in paper position of $3 million. After accounting for other expense, which mainly comprise general and administrative expenses, product services reported a net profit after tax of $6 million for Q2. Net asset value of $58 million as at the quarter end.

對於未實現的未平倉頭寸，我們報告稱，貨運頭寸的市價增加了 1200 萬美元，但被紙面頭寸的 300 萬美元負向變動所抵消。扣除主要包括一般及行政開支在內的其他費用後，產品服務部門報告第二季稅後淨利為 600 萬美元。截至季末，淨資產價值為 5,800 萬美元。

As we mentioned in the previous quarters, the large mark-to-market valuation movement is due to the gradual phase-in of our multiple year term contract, which reflects value adjustments in time of volatile market. Value is significant. It reflects the delta between the balance sheet dates, and we continue to see fluctuations before the positions are realized.

正如我們在前幾個季度所提到的，按市價計價的估值大幅波動是由於我們逐步實施多年期合同，這反映了市場波動時的價值調整。價值重大。它反映了資產負債表日之間的差異，並且在頭寸實現之前我們繼續看到波動。

We also want to highlight that due to the nature of its gain and loss are realized in different financial periods and cannot be extrapolated and predicted using its historical performance. Its unrealized position will fluctuate depending on the valuation at the end of the financial period, driving the accounting results up and down drastically.

我們還想強調的是，由於其性質，收益和損失是在不同的財務期間實現的，不能根據其歷史表現進行推斷和預測。其未實現狀況將根據財務期末的估值而波動，導致會計結果大幅波動。

It's important to remember that our trading model looks at creating value combining positions of cargoes, paper and shipping positions. As such, we would like to remind you that the reported net asset value does not include the unrealized physical shipping position of $10 million, which was based on our internal valuation.

重要的是要記住，我們的交易模式著眼於結合貨物、紙張和航運部位來創造價值。因此，我們想提醒您，報告的淨資產價值不包括 1000 萬美元的未實現實體運輸頭寸，該價值基於我們的內部估值。

In light of the strong shipping market outlook, the open cargo contracts and hedging position may, in turn, experience negative mark-to-market valuation changes, and we'll continue to see fluctuations before the positions are realized. In Q2, our average VAR, value at risk was $6 million, reflecting a well-balanced trading book of cargoes, shipping and derivatives after including the increased term contract volume, as mentioned.

鑑於航運市場前景強勁，未平倉貨物合約和對沖頭寸可能反過來經歷負面的市價估值變化，並且在頭寸實現之前我們將繼續看到波動。在第二季度，我們的平均 VAR（風險價值）為 600 萬美元，這反映出在計入增加的定期合約量後，貨物、航運和衍生性商品的交易帳簿保持均衡。

Going on to our financial highlights. We reported a net profit after tax of $43 million, including a profit of $16 million from BW LPG India, a $6 million profit from product services. Profit attributable to equity holders of the company was $35 million for this quarter, which translates into an earnings per share of $0.23 and an annualized earning yield of 8% when compared against our share price at the end of June.

接下來是我們的財務亮點。我們報告的稅後淨利潤為 4,300 萬美元，其中包括來自 BW LPG India 的 1,600 萬美元利潤和來自產品服務的 600 萬美元利潤。本季公司股東應占利潤為 3,500 萬美元，相當於每股收益 0.23 美元，與 6 月底的股價相比，年化收益率為 8%。

We reported a net leverage ratio of 31% in Q2, a slight decrease from 33% reported end of last year. The decrease was due to lease liability reduction of $123 million from the purchase option exercised for BW Kizoku and BW Yushi, partly offset by the net drawdown of some banking facilities. For Q2, the Board declared a dividend of $0.22 per share, which translates to 110% payout of our quarterly shipping profit.

我們報告第二季的淨槓桿率為 31%，較去年年底的 33% 略有下降。減少的原因是，行使 BW Kizoku 和 BW Yushi 購買選擇權導致租賃負債減少了 1.23 億美元，但部分被部分銀行信貸的淨提取所抵消。對於第二季度，董事會宣布派發每股 0.22 美元的股息，相當於我們季度航運利潤的 110%。

These are also supported by some of the retained dividends from Product Services in 2024. For the period end, our balance sheet reported a shareholders' equity of $1.9 billion. The annualized return on equity and capital employed for Q2 were 9% and 8%, respectively. Our Q2 OpEx was $9,000 per day. For full year '25, we estimate our own fleet operating cash breakeven per day to be $19,100 per day and total fleet operating cash breakeven, including time charter-in vessels to be $21,700 per day.

這些也得到了 2024 年產品服務保留的部分股息的支持。期末，我們的資產負債表顯示股東權益為 19 億美元。第二季的年化股本回報率和資本使用回報率分別為 9% 和 8%。我們第二季的營運支出為每天 9,000 美元。對於 25 年全年，我們估計我們自己的船隊每天的營運現金損益平衡點為 19,100 美元，包括定期租船在內的整個船隊營運現金損益平衡點為 21,700 美元。

Please note, this is a reduction compared with the cash breakeven of 2024 of $22,800 per day, primarily due to meticulously managed financing, reduced time charter-in vessels and lower G&A per day. And this is also offset by increased OpEx. All-in cash breakeven, including dry-dock program for the year is estimated to be $24,800.

請注意，與 2024 年的現金損益平衡點 22,800 美元/天相比，這是一個下降，主要是由於精心管理的融資、減少的定期租船和較低的每日 G&A。這也被增加的營運支出所抵消。包括乾船塢計劃在內的全年現金損益平衡估計為 24,800 美元。

Next slide, please. On the liquidity side, at the end of Q2, we maintained a strong position of $708 million, including $287 million in cash and $421 million in undrawn revolving credit facilities. Due to our meticulously managed financing plan, we are able to support our fleet growth and remain a robust and resilient financial position to weather the future.

請看下一張投影片。在流動性方面，截至第二季末，我們保持了 7.08 億美元的強勁勢頭，其中包括 2.87 億美元的現金和 4.21 億美元的未提取循環信貸額度。由於我們精心管理的融資計劃，我們能夠支持我們的船隊成長，並保持強勁而有彈性的財務狀況以度過未來。

Our repayment profile continues to be sustainable and healthy with major repayment only kicks in after 2029. On the product services side, trade finance utilization stood at a moderate level of $303 million or 38% of our available credit line, adding sufficient room for future trading needs.

我們的還款狀況持續保持可持續和健康，大額還款僅在 2029 年後開始。在產品服務方面，貿易融資利用率處於中等水平，為 3.03 億美元，占我們可用信貸額度的 38%，為未來的貿易需求增加了足夠的空間。

Okay. With that, I would like to conclude my update. Thank you for listening, and back to you, Aline.

好的。至此，我想結束我的更新。感謝您的聆聽，回到您身邊，艾琳。

Thank you, Samantha, and thank you, Kristian. We would now like to open the call for Q&A for questions. (Operator Instructions).

謝謝你，薩曼莎，謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。我們現在想開始問答環節。（操作員指令）。

We will start with the verbal questions first before then moving on to the chat. (Operator Instructions) I see first up [Thomas Christiansen].

我們將首先從口頭問題開始，然後再進行聊天。（操作員指示）我首先看到[托馬斯·克里斯蒂安森]。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes.

是的。

That's really good. I have a question regarding the fleet growth. First of all, if you could -- that's a factual question, put some figures regarding the capacity of the VLG fleet today and will the expected 111 vessels going forward? And then my next question is if that is a concern this fleet growth to you, and if it is, how you will mitigate the impact? And if not, why it's not a concern?

那真的很好。我有一個關於船隊成長的問題。首先，這是一個事實問題，請提供一些有關目前 VLG 船隊容量的數據，以及未來預計的 111 艘船的數量是多少？我的下一個問題是，您是否擔心船隊成長？如果是，您將如何減輕影響？如果不是，那為什麼這不是一個值得擔心的問題？

Thank you, Thomas. I can say -- I mean, it's to go into detail of every vessel size, it's probably going to take too long. But these ships are quite standardized, except that you have about 60 ships now of this fleet which are Panamaxes, which can go both the old and the new canal lane with a capacity of 88,000 cubic meters. Otherwise, the VLGCs are relatively standard in their design.

謝謝你，托馬斯。我可以說——我的意思是，要詳細了解每種船隻的尺寸，可能會花費太長時間。但這些船舶相當標準化，只不過現在這支船隊大約有60艘巴拿馬型船舶，可以行駛在新舊運河上，容量為88,000立方公尺。除此之外，VLGC 的設計相對標準。

Some are '91, some are '93 and some are '88, like I said. If you go back to the years before 2010, these ships are typically 82,000, maybe 84,000 cubes. So that's kind of the way that the design has developed over the last 10-years. When it comes to the fleet growth in 2027, 2028, it's something we're absolutely not naive about.

有些是 91 年的，有些是 93 年的，有些是 88 年的，就像我說的。如果回顧 2010 年之前，這些船通常有 82,000 立方米，甚至可能是 84,000 立方米。這就是過去 10 年來設計的發展方式。對於 2027 年、2028 年的船隊成長，我們絕對不會抱持幻想。

It should be viewed in the context of also more LPG volumes coming on stream, like mentioned from the US as well as the Middle East. I think the fleet growth is kind of the same picture we had going from 2022 into 2023, where the fleet growth was actually absorbed very well in the market because the inefficiencies and the volume expansion from the US in particular, absorbed the fleet capacity, which came on the water.

應該從液化石油氣產量不斷增加的背景來看待這個問題，就像美國和中東所提到的。我認為船隊成長情況與 2022 年至 2023 年的情況類似，其中船隊成長實際上被市場很好地吸收了，因為效率低下和特別是美國的運力擴張吸收了水上船隊運力。

But we are absolutely not naive about this. And as previously mentioned, we also have a time charter portfolio, which is currently just above 30% of our capacity, which we are given -- provided the rates are found attractive, probably going to grow towards 40%. So that's the way we are protecting the downside, as also mentioned in the beginning of our presentation.

但我們對此絕對不天真。如同前面所提到的，我們還有一個定期租船組合，目前略高於我們運力的 30%，如果費率具有吸引力，這個數字可能會成長到 40%。這就是我們保護下行風險的方式，正如我們在演講開始時所提到的。

Thomas, you had a follow-up question?

湯瑪斯，你還有後續問題嗎？

Yes, I did. I mean, little bit in the same context. I mean, recently, Panama announced that it wouldn't register ships above 15-years. I mean, can you say on a global level, how does that impact the fleet of big gas carriers? And also how does -- would that impact BW business?

是的，我做到了。我的意思是，在同樣的背景下。我的意思是，最近，巴拿馬宣布不會登記船齡超過 15 年的船舶。我的意思是，您能否從全球層面說一下，這對大型天然氣運輸船隊有何影響？這會對 BW 業務產生什麼影響？

Sorry, I didn't get that. The Panama has --

抱歉，我沒聽懂。巴拿馬--

The Panama register -- the flag registered Panama announced that it will not register ships above 15 years going forward, how does that impact the global market and your market?

巴拿馬登記冊－船旗國巴拿馬宣布今後將不再登記超過 15 年的船舶，這對全球市場和您的市場有何影響？

Well, then there will be fewer ships going through the Panama Canal. And I guess, more ships have to sail around South Africa to and from Asia and the US, if that is the case.

那麼通過巴拿馬運河的船隻數量就會減少。我想，如果真是這樣的話，將會有更多的船隻繞過南非往返於亞洲和美國之間。

I think it's more about to register to B2B, to flag the Panama flag going forward that the --

我認為更重要的是註冊 B2B，懸掛巴拿馬國旗，--

Thomas, you disappeared.

湯瑪斯，你消失了。

Yes. It looks like we lost him.

是的。看起來我們失去他了。

Can you hear me now?

現在你能聽到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Sorry. Yes. No, I think it's more about -- it's the register, the flag register, Panama's flag register that doesn't want to allow vessels above 15-years to be registered with Panama flag going forward. So I guess that somehow will exclude some vessels from the global fleet of gas carriers. So if you have a view on how that will impact the global fleet and your business too?

對不起。是的。不，我認為更多的是——註冊機構、船旗國註冊機構、巴拿馬船旗國註冊機構不想允許超過 15 年的船隻今後註冊懸掛巴拿馬國旗。所以我猜想這會以某種方式將一些船隻排除在全球天然氣運輸船隊之外。那麼，您是否認為這將如何影響全球船隊和您的業務？

I think the -- I'm not sure about the restrictions on flagging ships in Panama. But if that is the case, I presume that there are all the registers where you can flag your ships. So it's nothing which will have a commercial impact on our markets as far as I can see.

我認為——我不確定對懸掛巴拿馬國旗的船隻有何限制。但如果情況確實如此，我想應該有各種登記冊，可以讓你在你的船上懸掛旗幟。因此，據我所知，這不會對我們的市場產生商業影響。

[Clemon Clement Molins].

[克萊蒙·克萊門特·莫林斯]。

Over the years, you've generated significant shareholder value by assessing the purchase options that were below market prices on time chartered-in vessels with Yushi as the most recent example. Could you remind us whether you have purchase options on any of your remaining time chartered-in vessels?

多年來，您透過評估低於市場價格的定期租船購買選擇權，為股東創造了巨大的價值，最近的例子就是「玉石號」。您能否提醒我們，您是否對剩餘的任何定期租入船舶有購買選擇權？

We do have on one ship later in the decade, but there are no purchase options in the immediate future to say -- to phrase it that way. But we do have some towards the end of the decade.

我們確實會在十年內購買一艘船，但近期沒有購買選擇——可以這麼說。但在本世紀末我們確實有一些。

Okay. Makes sense. Q3 guidance was a bit, let's say, disappointing maybe relative to recent market trends, especially on the spot market. A portion of that is attributable to your time charter book. But could you please delve a bit into the numbers where a significant portion of this fixed before rates went up?

好的。有道理。與近期市場趨勢（尤其是現貨市場）相比，第三季的業績指引可能有點令人失望。其中一部分歸因於您的定期租船合約。但是，您能否深入研究一下在利率上調之前已經修復了很大一部分的數字？

That's something we will have to get back to you on for the next quarter, because that requires a bit of meticulous working to get that number correct. But you're absolutely right that the time charter portfolio, which protected our downside in the second quarter is also affecting the number we're guiding on for the third quarter. And also keep in mind that we do have dry-dockings taking place throughout this year.

這是我們必須在下個季度就此事向您報告的事情，因為這需要一些細緻的工作才能得到正確的數字。但您完全正確，定期租船組合保護了我們第二季的下行風險，也影響了我們對第三季的預期數字。另外請記住，我們今年全年都會進行乾船塢作業。

And there is also a position and timing effect here, which is important to keep in mind because these voyages are usually three-months voyages and to have ships in position for the uptick in the rates takes time to -- before you see ships are load ready and can actually benefit from the strength in the market. So I think we have to get back to you on the details on the split between spot and time charter like we typically do in our earnings presentation.

這裡也存在位置和時間效應，這一點很重要，因為這些航程通常為三個月，而讓船舶為運費上漲做好準備需要時間 - 然後你才能看到船舶準備好裝載並真正受益於市場的強勁。因此，我認為我們必須向您詳細介紹現貨租船和定期租船之間的區別，就像我們通常在收益報告中所做的那樣。

Makes sense. And final question from me. You had 139 dry-docking days in Q2, followed by 143 and 135 in Q3 and Q4, respectively. How many vessels are expected to go through dry-docking each quarter? And secondly, have you seen any congestion going into dry- docks?

有道理。我的最後一個問題。您在第二季的乾船塢停留時間為 139 天，在第三季和第四季分別有 143 天和 135 天。預計每季有多少艘船舶進行乾船塢維修？其次，您是否曾經看過進入乾船塢的擁擠情況？

No congestions, but it's another six, seven ships for the remainder of this year.

沒有擁堵，但今年剩餘時間還會有六、七艘船。

[John Dickson].

[約翰·迪克森]

I just have real quick question for you related to the Panama Canal. We saw earlier this year just -- you can hear me, right?

我只是想問您一個有關巴拿馬運河的簡短問題。我們今年早些時候就看到過——你能聽到我說話，對吧？

Yes. Can hear you well, John.

是的。聽得很清楚，約翰。

Okay. Earlier this year, President Trump here in the United States has really spent a lot of time with Panama trying to get the freight rates down for US flag vessels, is that -- and US naval vessels, of course, is that something that you see that's impacting the congestion in the Panama Canal? And do you kind of expect to see that going forward?

好的。今年早些時候，美國總統川普花了很多時間與巴拿馬會面，試圖降低懸掛美國國旗船隻的運費，當然還有美國海軍艦艇，您認為這是否影響了巴拿馬運河的擁擠？您是否希望看到這種情況繼續發生？

Not really. The capacity is mainly being absorbed by container ships. We see more ethane carriers on the back of the increased exports of ethane from the US, and this is going to accelerate in the coming years as well as other ship types. But we don't so far see any impact from the, let's say, naval ships or the US flagships as you mentioned.

並不真地。運力主要被貨櫃船吸收。隨著美國乙烷出口量的增加，我們看到乙烷運輸船的數量也在增加，未來幾年，其他船型的數量也將加速成長。但到目前為止，我們還沒有看到您提到的海軍艦艇或美國旗艦造成任何影響。

Thank you, John. Do we have any more questions that you would like to ask verbally before we move on to the chat. If not right now, might just turn to the chat, maybe starting with Andreas first. SGA has come down from Q4 and also Q1. What is driving this? And is the current level a more realistic level going forward?

謝謝你，約翰。在我們開始聊天之前，您還有其他問題想要口頭詢問嗎？如果現在還不行，那麼可能就轉向聊天，也許先從安德烈亞斯開始。SGA 已從 Q4 和 Q1 下降。是什麼原因導致這現象？目前的水平是否是未來更現實的水平？

Samantha, I guess, this one for you. On the G&A side, what typically drives this up, I presume this is the G&A we are referring to, right?

莎曼珊，我想，這個給你。在 G&A 方面，通常是什麼推動了這一趨勢，我認為這就是我們所指的 G&A，對嗎？

I assume the SGA refers to the G&A. Yes. I think, Andreas, so G&A is not something that we can have a say or can give you a good base for you to estimate because partly of that is that the shipping G&A and the other part is Product Services G&A, which is a reflection of the realized profit as part of the incentive scheme. So that's why you will see fluctuations of G&A as a true up reflecting the Product Services realized profit as well.

我認為 SGA 指的是 G&A。是的。安德烈亞斯，我認為，一般及行政費用不是我們可以發表意見或可以為您提供良好估算基礎的東西，因為其中一部分是運輸一般及行政費用，另一部分是產品服務一般及行政費用，它反映了作為激勵計劃一部分的已實現利潤。因此，您會看到 G&A 的波動真實地反映了產品服務實現的利潤。

All right. Andreas had another question related to spot rates being lower. So the question was with the current market dynamics being favorably and comparing relative to peers reporting recently, what is the reason for the achieved spot rates for Q3 being relatively lower for BW LPG?

好的。安德烈亞斯還有另一個與現貨價格較低有關的問題。因此問題是，在當前市場動態良好且與同業最近報告相比的情況下，BW LPG 第三季的現貨價格相對較低的原因是什麼？

I think -- well, it's not -- I guess, our peers have to answer for their numbers themselves. But at least for us, when we guide on the Q3 numbers, it's including both spot and the time charter portfolio. So it's not pure spot. And as mentioned also to Clement earlier is that the time charter portfolio is affecting this number compared to the pure spot rate that you see in the market.

我認為——嗯，事實並非如此——我想，我們的同行必須自己為他們的數字負責。但至少對我們來說，當我們指導第三季數據時，它包括現貨和定期租船組合。所以它不是純粹的斑點。正如克萊門特之前提到的，與市場上的純現貨價格相比，定期租船組合對這個數字有影響。

And of course, you have the positioning, the timing effect and the fact that we also have a relatively busy dry-docking agenda and scheme this year, which will impact the guiding and the results going forward.

當然，還有定位、時機效應，以及今年我們相對繁忙的乾船塢議程和計劃，這些都會影響未來的指導和結果。

Thank you. We move on to a question from Peter on VLACs. To what extent are the VLACs affecting the VLGC market? And when do you expect to start seeing some scrapping?

謝謝。我們繼續討論 Peter 關於 VLAC 的問題。VLAC 對 VLGC 市場的影響有多大？您預計什麼時候會出現一些廢棄現象？

The VLACs are currently -- as they are being phased in, these are basically going to trade as far as we can see as regular VLGCs because the ammonia trade for these kind of vessels hasn't materialized yet and that's probably not going to materialize before we are well into the 2030s as it looks now. So we regard them as part of the, let's say, conventional VLGC fleet in our market outlooks.

目前，VLAC 正在分階段投入使用，據我們所知，它們基本上將以常規 VLGC 的方式進行交易，因為此類船舶的氨貿易尚未實現，而且從目前的情況來看，這可能要到 2030 年代才會實現。因此，在我們的市場展望中，我們將它們視為傳統 VLGC 船隊的一部分。

And then there was another question, which was whether we start seeing some scrapping. Scrapping is typically taking place when the markets are really, really low. These ships, when they go out on, let's say, exit the conventional trade, typically when they reach at least 25-years, they end up in captive trade, floating storage operations.

然後還有另一個問題，那就是我們是否開始看到一些廢棄現象。報廢通常發生在市場行情非常低迷的時候。這些船舶在出海時，也就是退出傳統貿易時，通常當它們的服役年限達到至少 25 年後，就會進入專屬貿易和浮動儲存作業。

And technically, these ships can last until they are 40-years of age basically because there is very little wear and tear compared to a dry cargo ship, for instance. So we -- I don't anticipate to see any scrapping activity picking up before the markets are at a very different level than what we see today.

從技術上講，這些船可以航行到 40 年，因為與乾貨船相比，它們的磨損很小。因此，在市場水準與今天相比有較大差異之前，我預計不會出現任何報廢活動回升。

Thank you, Kristian. We have another question in the chat from (technical difficulty) on contract extension. Do you have any plans to extend the contracts for the vessels you're currently chartering in?

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。我們在聊天中遇到了另一個關於續約的問題（技術難題）。您是否有計劃延長目前租賃的船舶的合約？

This is something we will decide on as we get closer to the expiry of these various contracts. So we will inform the market more on how we extend or choose not to extend these contracts as we move into the third and the fourth quarter.

當我們接近這些合約的到期時，我們會做出決定。因此，隨著進入第三季度和第四季度，我們將向市場更多地告知我們如何延長或選擇不延長這些合約。

Thank you. Another question from (technical difficulty) on ton-mile upside. Regarding ton-mile upside from US-China trade tensions, you mentioned that Voyage patterns are reverting. Can you quantify in general terms, how much of the ton-mile upside is still here -- still there today? Is it mostly still there or mostly gone?

謝謝。另一個問題（技術難題）是關於噸英里上行空間的。關於中美貿易緊張局勢對噸英里運輸量的影響，您提到航行模式正在恢復。您能否用一般的量化術語來說明，目前噸英哩的上升空間還有多少？它大部分還在那裡還是大部分都消失了？

This is a very good question. What we do see is that the US cargo flows into China have kind of returned to a certain extent. But the surge in US cargoes heading into India has come off. So I think it's a bit too early to see whether there is actually a new trade pattern established between the US and India, for instance, or if this was just a one-off. So it's hard to kind of quantify this.

這是一個非常好的問題。我們確實看到，美國流入中國的貨物量已經在某種程度上回升。但美國出口至印度的貨物數量激增動能已減弱。因此，我認為現在判斷美國和印度之間是否真的建立了新的貿易模式，或者這只是一次性事件，還為時過早。所以很難量化這一點。

But as mentioned, we saw more than 1 million tonnes heading from the US into India in the second quarter against less than 100,000 tonnes for the entire 2024. But the -- and also a side effect of this, which is quite interesting, which we probably underestimated was that India, which over the last years has absorbed basically 50% of all the LPG exports from the Middle East was suddenly receiving less cargoes from the Middle East because the Middle East sent more cargoes all the way to China.

但如前文所述，我們看到第二季度有超過 100 萬噸的鋼材從美國出口到印度，而 2024 年全年的鋼材出口量不到 10 萬噸。但是，這還有一個很有趣的副作用，我們可能低估了這一點，那就是印度在過去幾年裡吸收了中東液化石油氣出口的 50% 左右，但突然間從中東收到的貨物減少了，因為中東將更多的貨物一路運到了中國。

So we need a bit more time, I think, to quantify the ton-mile effects and how it really impacted the market.

因此，我認為我們需要更多時間來量化噸英里效應以及它對市場的實際影響。

Thank you. We have a question from (technical difficulty) on ethane. Do you have any comments to the optionality on ethane LPG exports from the US Gulf in the second half of '25 and in 2026? Which share of ethane LPG do you expect to be shipped from the expansions where there is such optionality?

謝謝。我們有一個關於乙烷的（技術難題）問題。您對 2025 年下半年和 2026 年美國墨西哥灣乙烷液化石油氣出口的選擇性有何評論？您預計從具有這種可選性的擴建項目中將運送多少比例的乙烷液化石油氣？

Thanks, (technical difficulty). So we understand that from the Nederland’s terminal, for instance, they will start up with LPG and then facing the ethane as we get into 2026. We assess kind of we have a 50-50 split on that one. Enterprise, they have two expansions where one of them will eventually be ethane only. So I think there is good reasons to believe that a substantial part of the terminal expansion for energy transfer as well as enterprise will be designated for ethane capacity.

謝謝，（技術難度）。因此，我們了解到，例如，從荷蘭的終端開始，他們將首先使用液化石油氣，然後在 2026 年轉向乙烷。我們對此的評估是，我們對此的比例是 50-50。企業號有兩個擴建項目，其中一個最終將僅用於乙烷。因此，我認為有充分的理由相信，能源傳輸終端和企業擴建的很大一部分將用於乙烷產能。

Question in the chat from [Chandan] on Panama Canal congestion. So he would like to know what is driving the containership congestion increase in Panama Canal, what do you think?

[Chandan] 在聊天中提出了有關巴拿馬運河擁擠的問題。所以他想知道導致巴拿馬運河貨櫃船擁堵加劇的原因是什麼，您認為呢？

I'm not sitting close enough to the container market to give kind of a qualified reply on this. But I suspect that it has something to do with the ongoing trade war, trade negotiations between China and the US. But the container traffic in and around the canal is steadily growing simply because also there are more ships in general on the water, fighting for this very limited capacity, which the Panama Canal has to offer.

我對貨櫃市場了解不夠深入，無法對此給出合格的答案。但我懷疑這與中美之間正在進行的貿易戰和貿易談判有關。但運河內外的貨櫃運輸量正在穩步增長，因為水上航行的船隻越來越多，爭奪巴拿馬運河有限的運力。

And final question for now in the chart before we can open up again verbally as well is from John on the spot rate level. How do you look at the current freight market for VLGCs or spot rates of $70,000 a day a sustainable level? Or do you feel there are some downside risk in the near to medium term? All containers into the second half of '25?

在我們再次口頭提問之前，圖表中的最後一個問題是約翰關於現貨匯率水準的問題。您如何看待目前超大型氣體運輸船 (VLGC) 的貨運市場或每天 70,000 美元的現貨運費是否屬於永續水準？或者您認為中短期內存在一些下行風險？所有貨櫃都進入 25 年下半年？

Good questions. I think there is always a downside risk, when you are at $70,000 per day in the market. Today, for instance, that ships are being booked around that level. So it seems like the market is able to absorb it and that the rates are sustainable. But I wouldn't say that there is (technical difficulty) in driving these rates further up or down. The fundamentals are solid. So it's not like we have changed any views on the fundamentals of the market.

好問題。我認為，當市場上每天有 7 萬美元的投資時，總是存在下行風險。例如，今天船隻的預訂量就在這個水平左右。因此看起來市場能夠吸收它並且利率是可持續的。但我不會說進一步提高或降低這些利率存在（技術困難）。基本面是穩固的。因此，我們並沒有改變對市場基本面的任何看法。

But the wildcard is the Panama Canal. And as mentioned, we see the containers are taking up substantial and increasing part of that capacity over the last couple of weeks. So it seems like this situation, even though it's rapidly changing from one week to the other, it seems like the Panama Canal congestion is going to be playing a role in the market -- in our market going forward. I think that seems to be the case.

但巴拿馬運河是個未知數。正如所提到的，我們發現過去幾週貨櫃佔用了大量的容量，而且還在增加。因此，儘管這種情況每週都在迅速變化，但巴拿馬運河擁堵似乎將在市場中發揮作用——在我們未來的市場中。我認為情況似乎確實如此。

Thank you, Christian. There's no more questions in the chat right now, but we have John Dixon who raised his hand again. So please, if you want to go ahead, John. Christian, just real quick, look to the fourth quarter, Samantha said and y'all showed that you've booked about 30% of your available days into the fourth quarter. Obviously, the way I'm looking at that is that if those freight rates stay higher.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。現在聊天中沒有其他問題，但約翰·迪克森 (John Dixon) 再次舉手。所以，如果你想繼續的話，約翰。克里斯蒂安，很快地看一下第四季度，薩曼莎說，你們已經預訂了第四季度大約 30% 的可用天數。顯然，我的看法是，如果運費保持在高水準。

A leading into the fourth quarter, I'm assuming that is going to be reflected. I mean, obviously, you still have a lot of available days left to book. Is that kind of the way you guys are looking at it, or? What's your perspective leading into that fourth quarter?

進入第四季度，我認為這將會得到體現。我的意思是，顯然您還有很多可預訂的日子。你們是不是也是這樣看待這件事的？您對第四季有何看法？

Yes. I think, John, the way to look at this is that regardless of how the market is performing, the spot market is performing, we have these 30-odd percent of all the fleet capacity locked in at $45,000 per day thereabout. And this will obviously have an impact on our time charter equivalent for an income for that quarter. But the remaining 70%, they are exposed to the spot market. So that's something we are happy to keep for time being, at least, if that kind of answers your question.

是的。約翰，我認為看待這個問題的方式是，無論市場表現如何，現貨市場表現如何，我們都將所有船隊運力的 30% 左右鎖定在每天 45,000 美元左右。這顯然會對我們該季度的定期租船收入產生影響。但剩下的 70% 則暴露在現貨市場。因此，如果這能回答您的問題的話，我們很樂意暫時保留它。

It does, Kristian. I appreciate it.

確實如此，克里斯蒂安。我很感激。

I think it's time to round it off and say thanks to everyone listening in and for asking good questions. We look forward to seeing you again in November. And in the meantime, we look forward to an exciting market development in the months to come. Thank you, everyone.

我想現在是時候結束這次演講了，感謝所有聽眾和提出的好問題。我們期待十一月再次見到您。同時，我們期待未來幾個月市場能夠出現令人興奮的發展。謝謝大家。

Thank you, Kristian. Thank you, Samantha. This will conclude our call. The call transcript and recording will be available on our website shortly. So thanks a lot for dialing in, and we wish you a very good rest of your day.

謝謝你，克里斯蒂安。謝謝你，薩曼莎。我們的通話到此結束。通話記錄和錄音將很快在我們的網站上發布。非常感謝您撥入電話，我們祝您今天過得愉快。