Ballard Power Systems Inc (BLDP) 2019 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Ballard Power Systems Q2, 2019 Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

歡迎參加 Ballard Power Systems 2019 年第二季電話會議。(接線員指示)

I would now like to turn the conference over to Guy McAree, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給投資人關係總監 Guy McAree。請開始。

Thanks very much and good morning everyone. Welcome to the Ballard's Second Quarter 2019 Financial and Operating Results Conference Call. Today, we've got Randy MacEwen, our President and CEO; as well as Tony Guglielmin; our Chief Financial Officer on the call.

非常感謝，各位早安。歡迎參加 Ballard 2019 年第二季財務與營運成果電話會議。今天與會的有我們的總裁暨執行長 Randy MacEwen；以及 Tony Guglielmin，我們的財務長。

We're going to be making forward-looking statements that are based on management's current expectations, beliefs and assumptions concerning future events. Actual results could be materially different. Please refer to our most recent annual information form and other public filings for a complete disclaimer and related information. So today, Randy is going to provide his perspective on the evolving fuel cell marketplace along with an update on the execution of Ballard's growth strategy. Tony, will then review the Q2, 2019 financial results and then we'll open the call up for question-and-answers.

我們將發表前瞻性陳述，係基於管理階層對未來事件之目前預期、信念與假設。實際結果可能有重大差異。完整免責聲明及相關資訊，請參閱我們最新的年度資訊表及其他公開申報文件。今天，Randy 將就不斷演變的燃料電池市場提出觀點，並更新 Ballard 成長策略的執行情況。接著 Tony 將回顧 2019 年第二季財務結果，之後我們將開放問答。

Just a brief note that Ballard is going to be meeting with investors to discuss strategic direction and operational highlights at a couple of upcoming conferences. The Gateway Conference in San Francisco on September 5, and the H.C. Wainwright 21st Annual Global Investment Conference in New York City on September 9 and 10.

簡短補充：Ballard 將在接下來幾場會議與投資人會面，討論策略方向與營運重點。包括 9 月 5 日於舊金山舉行的 Gateway Conference，以及 9 月 9 日與 10 日於紐約市舉行的 H.C. Wainwright 第 21 屆年度全球投資會議。

And I'll turn the call now over to Randy.

現在我把電話交給 Randy。

Thanks, Guy. And welcome everyone to today's conference call. In my opinion, this is the most exciting time in the history of the hydrogen and fuel cell industry. In parallel with early commercial adoption, we are seeing unprecedented developments and interest globally in fuel cell electric mobility. The global mega trend towards electrification of mobility is accelerating and putting increased momentum behind fuel cell-based power for motive applications. There are signals, very clear signals that the hydrogen and fuel cell industry is it at the defining stage in its evolution and inflection. As I noted on our last earnings call, the abundance of commercial activities, developments and progress bubbling below the surface has yet to be reflected in our financial results.

謝謝你，Guy。也歡迎各位參加今天的電話會議。我認為，這是氫能與燃料電池產業史上最令人振奮的時刻。在早期商業採用同步推進之際，我們也看到全球對燃料電池電動移動性的發展與興趣達到前所未有的程度。全球朝向移動載具電氣化的巨型趨勢正在加速，並為以燃料電池為基礎的動力系統在車輛驅動應用上帶來更強動能。有訊號，非常明確的訊號顯示，氫能與燃料電池產業正處於其演進與轉折的關鍵定義階段。如同我在上次法說會所提到的，表面下方大量湧現的商業活動、開發與進展，尚未反映在我們的財務結果中。

For the second quarter and first half of 2019, financial results and new contract bookings were consistent with the type of first half of the year we expected. We delivered Q2 revenue of $23.7 million, gross margin of 23% and adjusted EBITDA of negative $5 million, while ending Q2 with a sound financial position with cash reserves of $163.7 million. With material growth in our order book and important developments in our sales pipeline, we have a solid set up for the back half of 2019. As we reiterate our previously stated full year 2019 outlook, we also note our expectations for strong growth in 2020 and beyond to underpin Ballard's continued leadership in powering fuel cell electric vehicles.

就 2019 年第二季與上半年而言，財務結果與新合約接單情況，符合我們對上半年表現的預期。我們第二季營收為 2,370 萬美元，毛利率 23%，調整後 EBITDA 為負 500 萬美元；第二季期末現金準備為 1.637 億美元，財務狀況穩健。隨著訂單簿顯著成長，以及銷售管線出現重要進展，我們已為 2019 年下半年奠定良好基礎。在重申先前所述的 2019 年全年展望之際，我們也指出，預期 2020 年及其後將有強勁成長，以支撐 Ballard 在燃料電池電動車動力領域的持續領先地位。

I've spoken on prior earnings calls about the impact of key global megatrends, including the electrification of mobility on the transportation industry. Against this backdrop, there is a clear role for fuel cell power in use cases involving extended range, rapid refueling heavy payload and route flexibility including for buses, commercial trucks, rail and marine. There was a convergence occurring between government regulatory and fuel cell industry developments along with parallel and consequential developments from major players in the transportation industry.

我在先前的法說會中談過多項全球巨型趨勢（包括移動載具電氣化）對運輸產業的影響。在此背景下，燃料電池動力在需要長續航、快速加氫、重載荷與路線彈性等使用情境中扮演明確角色，包括巴士、商用卡車、鐵路與海事。政府監管與燃料電池產業發展，正與運輸產業主要參與者的平行且具重大影響的發展相互匯聚。

We've spoken previously on the favorable policy environment for fuel cells in China. We also flag again the favorable policy environment in Europe, which in my opinion is underpinning large market opportunities for fuel cell technology. As a reminder, in February, the EU passed landmark legislation to place restrictions on trucks CO2 emissions setting new limits at a 15% reduction by 2025 and 30% by 2030 for heavy-duty trucks. In 2022, these rules will also be extended to medium-duty trucks, buses and trailers. We believe that fuel cell technology is well suited for use cases that feature heavy payload, long range and a need for fast refueling. And for use cases that are enabled by centralized depot refueling or fueling corridors, consistent with our current operating model.

我們先前已談到中國對燃料電池的有利政策環境。我們也再次強調歐洲的有利政策環境；我認為這正支撐燃料電池技術的龐大市場機會。提醒各位，2 月時歐盟通過具里程碑意義的法規，對卡車二氧化碳排放設限：重型卡車於 2025 年需減少 15%，2030 年需減少 30%。自 2022 年起，這些規則也將延伸至中型卡車、巴士與拖車。我們相信，燃料電池技術非常適合重載、長里程且需要快速補給燃料的使用情境。同時也適用於可透過集中式車隊基地加氫或加氫走廊所支援的使用情境，並與我們目前的營運模式一致。

Notably on June 14, in advance of the G20 Summit in Japan, the International Energy Agency released an influential 203-page report entitled the future of hydrogen, in which it states that the hydrogen and fuel cell industry is enjoying unprecedented momentum around the world and it could be set on a path to fulfill its long-standing potential as a clean energy source. The IEA report prioritizes the opportunity to use hydrogen as a fuel for fleet vehicles. We're also seeing developments over the past several quarters with major players in the transportation sectors forming defining partnerships in the fuel cell industry.

值得注意的是，6 月 14 日，在日本 G20 峰會前夕，國際能源總署（IEA）發布一份具影響力的 203 頁報告《氫能的未來》，指出氫能與燃料電池產業在全球正享有前所未有的動能，並可能走上實現其長期作為潔淨能源來源潛力的道路。IEA 報告將以氫能作為車隊車輛燃料的機會列為優先事項。我們也看到過去幾季運輸領域的主要業者在燃料電池產業中建立具指標性的合作夥伴關係。

These developments are typified by large investments and they indicate the strategic importance and conviction level that these large players now have on the future value proposition and adoption curve of fuel cell electric vehicle, as part of their overall electrification strategies. Three notable corporate transactions are indicative of the changing fuel cell landscape. The first of these was Weichai Powers landmark strategic partnership and investment in Ballard, which closed in Q4 last year. We've previously spoken about Weichai's powerful position in the commercial vehicle value chain and the elements of our strategic collaboration, including Weichai's 19.9% investment in Ballard and our Weichai-Ballard joint venture in China. Now we expect Weichai-Ballard JV to become the leading player for fuel cell stacks and engines in the massive Chinese market for commercial vehicles.

這些發展以大規模投資為特徵，顯示這些大型業者如今對燃料電池電動車在其整體電氣化策略中的未來價值主張與採用曲線，具有高度的策略重要性與信心。三項重要的企業交易顯示燃料電池版圖正在改變。第一項是濰柴動力與 Ballard 的具里程碑意義的策略合作與投資，已於去年第四季完成交割。我們先前已談到濰柴在商用車價值鏈中的強勢地位，以及我們策略合作的要素，包括濰柴對 Ballard 的 19.9% 投資，以及我們在中國成立的濰柴-Ballard 合資公司。目前我們預期，濰柴-Ballard 合資公司將成為中國龐大商用車市場中燃料電池電堆與引擎的領導業者。

In the second notable transaction in April, Bosch announce to set up a new business unit called Fuel Cell Mobility Solutions, that has licensed certain fuel cell technology from power cell to support the commercialization by Bosch, a fuel-cell systems for automotive applications by 2022. Bosch estimates that 20% of electric vehicles will be fuel cell powered by 2030. And in the third transaction, this one just announced in June, Cummings, another blue chip player in mobility made an offer to acquire Hydrogenics. Each of these transactions implies an investment by each of Weichai, Bosh and Cummings of hundreds of millions of dollars in fuel cell commercialization. These transactions, each initiated by a heavy hitter in the global transportation value chain are the clearest indication yet of the positive future for fuel cells underpinned by the trend towards electrification of mobility in a variety of large market applications including buses, commercial trucks, rail, marine, auto and forklift.

第二項值得注意的交易是在 4 月，Bosch 宣布成立名為 Fuel Cell Mobility Solutions 的新事業單位，並自 PowerCell 授權特定燃料電池技術，以支援 Bosch 於 2022 年前將車用燃料電池系統商業化。Bosch 預估到 2030 年，20% 的電動車將由燃料電池提供動力。第三項交易則是在 6 月剛宣布的：Cummins（移動領域另一家藍籌企業）提出收購 Hydrogenics 的要約。上述每一項交易都意味著濰柴、Bosch 與 Cummins 各自投入數億美元推動燃料電池商業化。這些交易皆由全球運輸價值鏈中的重量級業者所發起，是迄今最清楚的指標，顯示在移動載具電氣化趨勢支撐下，燃料電池在多個大型市場應用（包括巴士、商用卡車、鐵路、海事、乘用車與堆高機）具有正向的未來前景。

Let me now turn to a brief update on the status of Ballard activities in Europe and China, where we had a busy quarter. I'll start with Europe. In June, we announced that Ballard is a founding member of the new H2Bus Consortium, a very exciting step towards large-scale deployment of fuel cell-electric buses. Consortium members including Nel hydrogen, Everfuel, Wright Bus, Hexagon Composites and Ryse Energy and of course Ballard who are currently jointly working together towards the deployment of one thousand fuel cell-electric buses and associated hydrogen infrastructure in European cities by 2023 at commercially competitive rates. The first 600 buses are supported by a EUR40 million grant from the CEF program in Europe with 200 buses planned for deployment at each of Denmark, Latvia and the UK by 2023. The consortium model was designed to offer an attractive total cost of ownership for bus operators.

現在我來簡要更新 Ballard 在歐洲與中國的業務活動狀況；我們本季相當忙碌。我先從歐洲開始。6 月，我們宣布 Ballard 是新成立的 H2Bus 聯盟（H2Bus Consortium）的創始成員之一，這是朝向燃料電池電動巴士大規模部署邁出的非常令人振奮的一步。聯盟成員包括 Nel hydrogen、Everfuel、Wright Bus、Hexagon Composites、Ryse Energy，當然也包括 Ballard；目前各方正共同合作，目標是在 2023 年前，以具商業競爭力的費率，在歐洲城市部署 1,000 輛燃料電池電動巴士及其配套的氫能基礎設施。首批 600 輛巴士獲得歐洲 CEF 計畫提供的 4,000 萬歐元補助，並規劃於 2023 年前在丹麥、拉脫維亞與英國各部署 200 輛。此聯盟模式的設計旨在為巴士營運商提供具吸引力的總持有成本。

Sample target pricing includes EUR375,000 for a single decker bus, hydrogen priced between EUR5 and EUR7 per kilogram and a bus service price of EUR0.30 per kilometer. Further in total between the H2Bus initiative and the JIVE funding program, we expect to see approximately 1,300 fuel cell-electric buses operating on Europe's roads in the foreseeable future. This represents a significant leg up in the scaling of fuel cell-electric buses in Europe. During Q2, Ballard also announced receipt of a purchase order from Wright Bus for 20 modules to power buses with two decks and zero emissions that are planned for deployment in London under the JIVE funding program. These 20 buses will be part of a total of 55 that are planned to service three London routes under JIVE I, all supporting that cities world's first Ultra Low Emission Zone initiative that was launched earlier this year.

目標示範定價包括：單層巴士 375,000 歐元、氫氣價格每公斤 5 至 7 歐元，以及巴士服務價格每公里 0.30 歐元。此外，綜合 H2Bus 倡議與 JIVE 補助計畫，我們預期在可預見的未來，歐洲道路上將有約 1,300 輛燃料電池電動巴士投入營運。這代表歐洲燃料電池電動巴士規模化的一大躍進。在第二季期間，Ballard 也宣布收到 Wright Bus 的採購訂單，訂購 20 套模組，用於驅動雙層、零排放巴士；該批巴士計畫在 JIVE 補助計畫下於倫敦部署。這 20 輛巴士將納入 JIVE I 規劃的總計 55 輛車隊，預計服務倫敦三條路線，並支援該市今年稍早啟動、全球首個「超低排放區」（Ultra Low Emission Zone）倡議。

Subsequent to the quarter we received a further purchase order from Wright Bus for additional 15 modules to power buses with two decks and zero emissions in Aberdeen, Scotland also under the JIVE program. We expect to ship all 35 modules to Wright Bus later in 2019 with the associated bus deployments expected in London and Aberdeen in 2020. Also subsequent to the quarter, we received an order from Solaris for 12 FCmove fuel cell modules to power JIVE funded buses in Bolzano, Italy, which we expect to ship in 2020. This brings the total number of fuel cell modules that we receive POs for to date under the European JIVE program to 92, for buses that will be deployed in Germany, France, the UK and Italy. We have a very strong position in this market. During Q2, we also announced our collaboration with ABB and other consortium partners in the flagships project to develop and launch a zero-emission river push boat to be deployed on the Rhone River in France in 2021. Using to two Ballard 200-kilowatt modules that we expect to ship in 2020, the boat will push barges along the river. This is an important demonstration project.

在本季結束後，我們又收到 Wright Bus 的另一筆採購訂單，追加 15 套模組，用於在蘇格蘭亞伯丁（Aberdeen）部署的雙層、零排放巴士，同樣隸屬 JIVE 計畫。我們預期將於 2019 年稍晚向 Wright Bus 出貨全部 35 套模組，相關巴士預計於 2020 年在倫敦與亞伯丁投入部署。同樣在本季結束後，我們收到 Solaris 的訂單，採購 12 套 FCmove 燃料電池模組，用於義大利波札諾（Bolzano）的 JIVE 補助巴士，我們預期於 2020 年出貨。這使得我們迄今在歐洲 JIVE 計畫下收到採購訂單的燃料電池模組總數達到 92 套，將用於在德國、法國、英國與義大利部署的巴士。我們在此市場具備非常強勢的地位。在第二季期間，我們也宣布與 ABB 及其他聯盟夥伴在 Flagships 專案中合作，開發並推出一艘零排放河川推船，預計於 2021 年在法國隆河（Rhone River）部署。該船將使用兩套 Ballard 200 千瓦模組（我們預期於 2020 年出貨），用於沿河推動駁船。這是一個重要的示範專案。

Turning now to China, in Q2, key Chinese government influencers made strong statements regarding aggressive plans for FCEV deployments. Mr. Wan Gang is Vice Chair of China's National Advisory Board for Policy Making and also known as China's father of electric vehicles. In a June interview Mr. Wan Gang stated about China, we should look into establishing a future hydrogen society. We need to move further towards fuel cells. Mr. Wan Gang's support of fuel cell electric vehicle deployment carries a great deal of weight in China. In addition, during Q2, Mr. Huang Libin spokesperson for MIIT in China noted that hydrogen fuel cell vehicles will coexist and complement fuel cell electric battery vehicles, jointly meeting the people's transportation needs.

接著談中國。第二季期間，中國政府的關鍵影響人士就燃料電池電動車（FCEV）部署的積極計畫發表了強而有力的聲明。萬鋼先生是中國國家政策制定諮詢委員會副主席，也被稱為「中國電動車之父」。在 6 月的一次訪談中，萬鋼先生談到中國時表示，我們應該著眼於建立未來的氫能社會。我們需要進一步邁向燃料電池。萬鋼先生對燃料電池電動車部署的支持，在中國具有相當分量。此外，在第二季期間，中國工信部（MIIT）發言人黃利斌先生指出，氫燃料電池車將與燃料電池電動電池車共存並互補，共同滿足人民的交通需求。

China's government also announced the Yangtze River Delta Hydrogen Corridor program during the quarter, a watershed plan for fuel cell and hydrogen deployment. By 2030 Phase 3 of this program is planned to include more than 20 hydrogen expressways connecting key cities in the Yangtze River Delta region, including more than 500 refueling stations. And in then just the next three years by 2021, Phase 1 of the program is planned to include the first four hydrogen expressways connecting at least seven cities and including 40 refueling stations.

中國政府也在本季宣布「長三角氫走廊」計畫（Yangtze River Delta Hydrogen Corridor program），這是一項具有里程碑意義的燃料電池與氫能部署藍圖。依該計畫至 2030 年的第三階段規劃，將包含超過 20 條連接長三角地區重點城市的氫能高速公路，並設置超過 500 座加氫站。而在接下來僅三年、也就是到 2021 年，第一階段規劃將包含首批 4 條氫能高速公路，連接至少 7 座城市，並包含 40 座加氫站。

Now in terms of current progress in China, as of June there were approximately 3,700 fuel cell electric vehicles in China, about 40% of which are buses and 60% of which are commercial trucks. Ballard technology is inside roughly two-thirds of these vehicles. In addition, there are now 31 hydrogen fueling stations in service with 36 more under construction. To this point heavy duty motor vehicles with Ballard technology inside, both buses and truck have almost 11 million kilometers of on-road experience in China and about 25 million kilometers worldwide. An unparalleled track record of field experience in the fuel cell industry.

就中國目前的進展而言，截至 6 月，中國約有 3,700 輛燃料電池電動車，其中約 40% 為巴士、60% 為商用卡車。Ballard 技術搭載於其中約三分之二的車輛。此外，目前已有 31 座加氫站投入營運，另有 36 座正在建設中。截至目前，搭載 Ballard 技術的重型車輛（包含巴士與卡車）在中國的道路實際運行里程接近 1,100 萬公里，全球累計約 2,500 萬公里。這是在燃料電池產業中無可比擬的實地運行經驗紀錄。

In addition, some of the buses in the TFL London fleet have operated for an industry leading 35,000 hours of revenue service without major stock maintenance requirements, demonstrating the high reliability and durability built into Ballard products. Finalize, while we continue to focus on exciting growth opportunities and delivering on our customer promises, we also could you make good progress at Ballard on innovation, continuous improvement and relentless product cost reduction. We're also managing our controllable. We continue to invest in EH&S, talent, research, technology, next-generation products, supply chain management, reduction improvements, quality processes, advanced manufacturing and after sales customer service support. We also continue to prudently manage our cost structure, our CapEx spend and our working capital. We believe our strategic plan anchored by a vision to deliver fuel cell power for sustainable planet will drive significant shareholder value.

此外，倫敦交通局（TFL）車隊中的部分巴士，已在無需重大堆疊（stack）維護的情況下，達到業界領先的 35,000 小時載客營運（revenue service），展現 Ballard 產品內建的高可靠性與耐久性。最後，在我們持續聚焦令人振奮的成長機會並履行對客戶的承諾之際，Ballard 也在創新、持續改善以及不懈的產品成本降低方面取得良好進展。我們也在管理可控成本。我們持續投資於環境、健康與安全（EH&S）、人才、研發、技術、下一代產品、供應鏈管理、降本改善、品質流程、先進製造，以及售後客戶服務支援。我們也持續審慎管理成本結構、資本支出（CapEx）與營運資金。我們相信，以「為永續地球提供燃料電池動力」之願景為核心的策略計畫，將為股東創造顯著價值。

And with that I will turn the call over to Tony to briefly review the financials.

接下來我把電話會議交給 Tony，請他簡要回顧財務表現。

Thanks, Randy and good morning everyone. The top line revenue in Q2 was $23.7 million, down 11% year-over-year with Power Products revenue down 44% and technology solutions revenue up 61%. Within Power Products, Heavy Duty Motive was down 52% or $6.8 million due primarily to a year-over-year decline in MEA product shipments to the Synergy-Ballard joint venture in China. Portable Power/UAV also declined (inaudible) million reflecting the disposition of the Protonex Power Manager assets in Q4 last year.

謝謝你，Randy，各位早安。第二季營收（top line revenue）為 2,370 萬美元，年減 11%；其中動力產品（Power Products）營收年減 44%，技術解決方案（technology solutions）營收年增 61%。在動力產品之中，重型車用（Heavy Duty Motive）年減 52%，或減少 680 萬美元，主要原因是對中國 Synergy-Ballard 合資企業的 MEA 產品出貨量較去年同期下降。可攜式電源／無人機（Portable Power/UAV）也下滑（聽不清）百萬美元，反映去年第四季處分 Protonex Power Manager 資產的影響。

These reductions were partially offset by an increase of $1.1 million in material handling with backup power essentially flat at $400,000. And within Power Products, you will recall that we had removed all MEA take or pay purchase commitments from the Synergy-Ballard JV from the order book in 12 month -- order backlog, pardon me, in the 12 month order book in 2018. We also indicated at that time. We were in discussions with the Synergy Ballard JV with regard to future opportunities. And we made excellent progress on these discussions and subsequent to Q2, we did sign an amended stack assembly license and MEA long-term supply agreement with the Synergy-Ballard joint venture. The MEA supply agreement also includes $8 million in MEAs to be delivered this year of which we recognized $1.1 million in Q2.

這些減少部分被物料搬運（含備援電力）增加110萬美元所抵銷，而備援電力基本持平於40萬美元。此外，在電力產品方面，您會記得我們在2018年已將協同（Synergy）-Ballard合資企業（JV）所有MEA「take-or-pay（照付不議）」採購承諾，從12個月——更正，是12個月訂單簿中的訂單積壓中移除。我們當時也表示。我們正就未來機會與Synergy Ballard合資企業進行討論。我們在這些討論上取得了極佳進展，並且在Q2之後，我們確實與Synergy-Ballard合資企業簽署了經修訂的堆疊組裝授權，以及MEA長期供應協議。該MEA供應協議亦包含今年將交付的800萬美元MEA，其中我們在Q2確認了110萬美元。

Moving to technology solutions, the increase in revenue to $13.8 million in Q2 was due primarily to increased revenue from the Weichai-Ballard JV Technology Solutions program, which more than offset relatively minor declines in other projects. Gross margin for the quarter was 23%, a decline of 13 points from Q2 last year, although an improvement from 14% in Q1. The year-over-year decline resulted from the decrease in high margin revenue from the MEA shipments to China, as well as the lower revenues related to the disposition of the Power Manager assets.

轉到技術解決方案，Q2營收增加至1,380萬美元，主要是因為來自濰柴-Ballard合資企業技術解決方案計畫的營收增加，且其增幅足以抵銷其他專案相對輕微的下滑。本季毛利率為23%，較去年Q2下降13個百分點，但較Q1的14%有所改善。年對年下滑主要源自對中國MEA出貨的高毛利營收減少，以及與處分Power Manager資產相關的營收較低。

For the balance of the year we expect ongoing improvements in gross margin in the second half compared to the first half of the year as the Weichai-Ballard JV program continues ramping up along with increases in product shipments that will positively impact overhead absorption. Cash operating costs were down 20% in Q2 to $8.4 million due primarily to lower product development costs as we transitioned resources to the Weichai-Ballard JV program, along with other minor cost reduction in other areas. Adjusted EBITDA in Q2 was negative $5 million, a decline of $4.2 million compared to the same quarter last year. Adjusted EBITDA in Q2 included Ballard share of losses in our joint venture investments in China of $2.9 million, largely related to our 49% investment in the Weichai-Ballard JV, as it continue to establish operations.

就今年剩餘期間而言，隨著濰柴-Ballard合資企業計畫持續放量，加上產品出貨增加將正面影響製造費用吸收，我們預期下半年毛利率將較上半年持續改善。Q2現金營運成本下降20%至840萬美元，主要因我們將資源轉移至濰柴-Ballard合資企業計畫而使產品開發成本降低，並伴隨其他領域的小幅降本。Q2調整後EBITDA為負500萬美元，較去年同期惡化420萬美元。Q2調整後EBITDA包含我們在中國合資投資的Ballard應占虧損290萬美元，主要與我們對濰柴-Ballard合資企業49%投資相關，因其仍在建立營運。

Net loss and adjusted net loss in Q2 were $7 million compared to net loss and adjusted net loss of $4.3 million in Q2 last year. And earnings per share and adjusted earnings per share were negative $0.03 in Q2, compared to negative $0.02 in Q2, 2018. Both net loss earnings per share included the same $2.9 million loss in our JV investments in China. Cash provided by operating activities was positive $1.7 million in Q2, consisting of working capital inflows of $2.8 million, partially offset by cash operating losses of $1.1 million. In terms of liquidity, we ended Q2 with cash reserves of $163.7 million, a 365% increase from the same time in 2018 and down just $1.3 million compared to the end of the prior quarter.

Q2淨損及調整後淨損為700萬美元，去年Q2的淨損及調整後淨損為430萬美元。Q2每股盈餘及調整後每股盈餘為負0.03美元，相較之下，2018年Q2為負0.02美元。淨損與每股盈餘兩者皆包含相同的、我們在中國合資投資的290萬美元虧損。Q2營運活動提供的現金為正170萬美元，其中包含280萬美元的營運資金流入，部分被110萬美元的現金營運虧損所抵銷。就流動性而言，我們在Q2結束時的現金儲備為1億6,370萬美元，較2018年同期增加365%，且較上一季季末僅減少130萬美元。

Finally, we ended Q2 with an order backlog of $211.6 million, an increase of $23.2 million from the end of Q1. And our order book for deliveries in the following 12-month period stood at $126.7 million, up 66% or $50.7 million from the end of Q1. Importantly, both the order backlog and order book do not include any expected orders under the H2Bus program in Europe that Randy discussed earlier or orders from Wright Bus and Solaris for 27 modules to power buses in Europe announced after the end of Q2.

最後，我們在Q2結束時的訂單積壓為2億1,160萬美元，較Q1季末增加2,320萬美元。而未來12個月期間交付的訂單簿為1億2,670萬美元，較Q1季末增加66%或5,070萬美元。重要的是，訂單積壓與訂單簿均未包含Randy先前提到的歐洲H2Bus計畫下任何預期訂單，也未包含在Q2結束後宣布、來自Wright Bus與Solaris、用於為歐洲巴士提供動力的27套模組訂單。

And with that let me turn the call back over to the operator for questions.

接下來我把電話交回給接線員進行提問。

(Operator Instructions) First question comes from Rob Brown.

(接線員指示) 第一個問題來自Rob Brown。

First on the synergy deal, it sounds like that's come back kind of nicely. Is that indicative of the Chinese market ramping back and maybe what's sort of your expectations now on that business kind of in the 2020?

首先談到Synergy的交易，聽起來似乎回升得相當不錯。這是否代表中國市場正在重新加速成長？以及您目前對這項業務在2020年的預期大概是什麼？

Thanks for the question, Rob. Indeed, I would say it's representative of the new parties that are coming to the China hydrogen fuel cell industry because what's happening there is, there is a new investor that has announced -- I think it's about RMB180 million to RMB200 million financing into synergy, that company is called Meijin Energy, which is a very large coal producer in China. They see lots of opportunity for coal gasification to hydrogen and the use of hydrogen in the near term. They are investing heavily in renewable energy to hydrogen in the future and also have made an acquisition of Feishi Bus in Guangdong Province as well, which is one of the leaders in my opinion at this point in hydrogen fuel cell bus deployments.

謝謝你的問題，Rob。確實，我會說這反映了正在進入中國氫燃料電池產業的新參與者。因為那邊正在發生的是，有一位新投資人已宣布——我想大約是人民幣1.8億元到2億元——對Synergy進行融資；該公司名為美錦能源（Meijin Energy），是中國非常大型的煤炭生產商。他們看到了煤氣化製氫以及短期內氫的使用存在大量機會。他們也在未來大力投資可再生能源製氫，並且也在廣東省收購了飛馳客車（Feishi Bus），在我看來，該公司目前是氫燃料電池巴士部署的領先者之一。

So they're making a number of investments in the hydrogen and fuel cell industry and this investment in the joint venture is effectively or actually in synergy, is effectively to support the future funding of the JV. They view the stack as many do in the industry as a key part of the value chain and wanted to make sure they had exposure to this. So that financing is expected to close in the very near term and I think positions Synergy and the Synergy-Ballard JV very strongly going forward.

因此，他們正在氫能與燃料電池產業進行多項投資，而對合資企業的這筆投資——實際上是對Synergy的投資——其目的在於支持合資企業未來的資金需求。他們與產業中許多人一樣，將電堆視為價值鏈中的關鍵環節，並希望確保自己能在此有所布局。因此，這筆融資預期將在近期完成，我認為這將使Synergy以及Synergy-Ballard合資企業在未來具備非常強的競爭力。

We did ship some MEAs actually in Q2 to the JV. We have a new $8 million purchase order for which we -- expect going forward, we expect to see some additional deliveries in 2019. So that's frankly wasn't something we had expected earlier in the year just given the level of uncertainty, but we'll have to wait of course, to see this financing close. But I'm very excited about these developments at Synergy bringing in such a strong player and I've had the opportunity to meet the top executives, including the CEO of Meijin Energy, I'm very impressed with their commitment in the hydrogen fuel cell industry. So I think you've got it right. It's an indication of the level of interest as well as the quality of the counterparties continue to step up including in China.

我們在Q2其實已向該合資企業出貨了一些MEA。我們有一筆新的800萬美元採購訂單；展望未來，我們預期在2019年會看到一些額外交付。坦白說，考量到不確定性程度，這並不是我們在年初所預期的，但當然我們仍需等待這筆融資完成。不過，我對Synergy引入如此強大的合作方所帶來的這些進展感到非常振奮；我也有機會與高階主管會面，包括美錦能源的CEO，我對他們在氫燃料電池產業的投入承諾印象非常深刻。所以我認為你的判斷是對的。這顯示了市場興趣的程度，以及交易對手方的品質持續提升，包括在中國也是如此。

And then in general, I guess moving to the European market, the JIVE program has been shipments, but what's sort of your view on the European bus market opportunity? What sort of penetration rate do you see that can get to and how does that play out? Is it programed like JIVE or it is switching to a traditional kind of supply model?

然後整體而言，我想轉到歐洲市場，JIVE計畫已經在出貨，但您如何看待歐洲巴士市場的機會？您認為滲透率可以達到什麼程度，並且會如何演進？它會像JIVE這樣以計畫形式推進，還是會轉向傳統的供應模式？

Yes, so we've seen a really significant cost reduction in the offering for fuel cell electric buses in the European market, and so this consortium, where we're looking at offering a single deck bus through Wright Bus of EUR375,000, Green hydrogen delivered at EUR5 to EUR7 per kilogram and as service cost of EUR0.30 per kilometer driven. This represents a compelling total cost of ownership that in my mind is, if not at par probably better than best in class pricing for battery electric buses, of course with superior performance though for fuel cell electric buses. And if you contrast the cost of fuel cell electric buses two or three years ago, where maybe the cost of a bus was more in the range of EUR650,000 and say five years ago closer to EUR1 million, the cost reduction this represents is fairly significant. I think what you're going to see is there will be some continued support in the very near term in terms of deployments. This 1,000 fuel cell bus program obviously has some support from the CEF fund and we're very appreciative of that, but we are moving to a model where even at volumes that I would consider relatively small, i.e., a 1,000 we're able to offer as a consortium leaning forward together on cost, a compelling value proposition to transit operators and transit authorities. So I think we'll see a much higher penetration as we move to 2003-2025 and obviously through 2030. And I think the two options for zero emission buses and of course a number of European cities are clamoring for zero emission buses. We can see very high adoption of zero emission buses occurring. I personally believe we're going to have very high penetration for fuel cell buses. In the 2025 time frame, I expect it to be circa 25% in key cities.

是的，因此我們已經看到在歐洲市場燃料電池電動巴士方案的供應端出現非常顯著的成本下降。因此，這個聯盟中，我們透過 Wright Bus 提供單層巴士，價格為 375,000 歐元；配送到位的綠氫價格為每公斤 5 至 7 歐元；以及每行駛一公里 0.30 歐元的服務成本。在我看來，這代表了極具吸引力的總持有成本（TCO）；即便不是與同級最佳的電池電動巴士持平，可能還更具優勢，當然燃料電池電動巴士的性能也更出色。如果你對比兩、三年前燃料電池電動巴士的成本，當時單車成本可能更接近 650,000 歐元；再往前五年則接近 100 萬歐元；這次所體現的降本幅度相當可觀。我認為你將會看到，在非常短期內，部署方面仍會有一些持續性的支持。這個 1,000 輛燃料電池巴士計畫顯然獲得了 CEF 基金的一些支持，我們非常感謝；但我們正在轉向一種模式：即使在我認為相對不大的量（也就是 1,000 輛）下，我們作為聯盟也能共同在成本上更積極地向前推進，向運輸營運商與運輸主管機關提供具吸引力的價值主張。因此我認為，隨著我們邁向 2003-2025，並且顯然一路到 2030，我們將看到更高的滲透率。我認為零排放巴士有兩種選項，而且當然有許多歐洲城市都在強烈要求零排放巴士。我們可以看到零排放巴士的採用率正在非常快速地提升。我個人相信燃料電池巴士將會有非常高的滲透率。在 2025 年的時間框架內，我預期在關鍵城市中大約會達到 25% 左右。

And then will be moving to the pipeline of new opportunities. How can you characterize that and how does that sort of turn into the order book over the next 18 months?

接下來我們談談新機會的管線。你會如何描述它？以及在未來 18 個月內，這會如何轉化為訂單簿？

Rob, its Tony here. So you can just -- we don't of course disclose our total pipeline dollars. We've discussed the backlog, which is quite significant. But as we've mentioned in the next 12 months, we have about $126 million to deliver. If you think about -- maybe about, as we said, we've kind of confirmed our outlook for the year, so maybe about half of that for this year and the next year and then in addition to backlog that we have beyond the order book, we see a fair bit of that converting next year. We have some of that of course is the Weichai-Ballard JV.

Rob，我是 Tony。所以你可以——我們當然不會披露我們整體管線的金額。我們已經討論過在手訂單（backlog），規模相當可觀。但如我們提到的，在接下來 12 個月，我們大約有 1.26 億美元需要交付。如果你想——也許大約，如我們所說，我們已經某種程度上確認了今年的展望，所以可能其中約一半在今年、另一半在明年；此外，除了訂單簿以外、在訂單簿之後的在手訂單，我們也看到其中相當一部分會在明年轉化。其中一部分當然來自 Weichai-Ballard 合資公司（JV）。

So we do see a fairly high conversion rate going into 2020, but beyond that more to the pipeline, we do have a very significant pipeline of opportunities that we do see moving into the backlog, through the balance of this year into the next year. We'll certainly have more to talk about probably in Q3 and certainly as we go into next year. But very high conversion rate, we would expect to see going into the latter part of the year.

因此我們確實看到在邁入 2020 年時有相當高的轉化率；但再往後、更多回到管線本身，我們確實有非常龐大的機會管線，並且我們看到這些機會會在今年剩餘時間到明年期間逐步轉入在手訂單。我們當然會有更多內容可以分享，可能在第三季（Q3），並且肯定在進入明年時。但我們預期在今年下半年會看到非常高的轉化率。

I'll just to add to that. The pipeline, Tony, obviously has characterized the order book and backlog. The pipeline in my mind is very attractive from a number of ways. Obviously, we're seeing growth in the pipeline particularly in key markets, but there's a lot of diversification developing. So we see contribution in the pipeline, not just from bus, but now a lot of activity on the commercial truck side; much more activity on the rail side much more activity on marine, even say six months ago.

我再補充一下。Tony 已經說明了管線、訂單簿與在手訂單的情況。在我看來，這個管線在多個面向都非常有吸引力。很明顯地，我們看到管線在關鍵市場持續成長，但同時也出現了相當程度的多元化。因此我們在管線中看到的貢獻不僅來自巴士；現在在商用卡車端也有大量活動；鐵路端的活動也更多；海事領域的活動也更多，甚至相較於六個月前也是如此。

So these medium and heavy duty markets, we're seeing a lot of activity. We do expect to see some conversion potentially in the auto space from pipeline to order book and I think forklift is another market where we expect to see over the next 12 months some significant developments that will migrate from pipeline into order book. So a pretty excited about the quality of the opportunities in the pipeline. I'm excited about the conversion rate that we're seeing and I'm excited about the diversification in terms of the market applications as well as the geographic market diversification. In China, we're seeing lots of opportunity for the JV there as well.

因此在這些中型與重型車輛市場，我們看到很多活動。我們確實預期在汽車領域，管線有可能轉化為訂單簿；我認為堆高機也是另一個市場，我們預期在未來 12 個月會有一些重大進展，並將從管線移轉到訂單簿。所以我們對管線中機會的品質感到相當振奮。我對我們看到的轉化率感到振奮，也對市場應用的多元化以及地理市場的多元化感到振奮。在中國，我們也看到合資公司那邊有很多機會。

The next question comes from Amit Dayal with H.C. Wainwright.

下一個問題來自 H.C. Wainwright 的 Amit Dayal。

Randy for you, maybe to begin with, you indicated there were lot of global activities under the surface happening right now. What signals or what sort of development should we be looking for -- to see how this is all progressing? And then when should some of this activity reflect in your financials? Is it a two or three-year period or is it a little sooner than that, any color on that would be helpful?

Randy，先從你開始。你提到目前在檯面下有很多全球性的活動正在發生。我們應該關注哪些訊號或哪些發展——來判斷這一切的進展如何？另外，這些活動何時會反映在你們的財務數字上？是兩到三年的期間，還是會更快一些？如果能提供一些說明會很有幫助。

So there is a lot of activity occurring in different parts of the value chain and indeed in different market applications as well. I did highlight three corporate transactions that we think are indicative of the conviction level that a number of the strategics now have in fuel cell. That's three of many companies. There are a lot of other companies looking for collaboration opportunities, whether it's in commercial truck, whether it's in pas car, whether it's in forklift. There's just a number of players that now are seeing the opportunity for hydrogen in fuel cells. In a way, frankly, I don't think they saw 12 and 24 months ago. It will take some time for some of these to percolate through from discussions to collaboration, to ensuring we have the right product offering to getting into programs and deployment. So in terms of impact, there may be some modest impact earlier then you're highlighting. But I think 2023 forward, we will see a very steep growth curve in the industry and we think Ballard is at the center of this.

因此，在價值鏈的不同環節、以及不同的市場應用中，確實都有大量活動正在發生。我確實提到三筆企業交易，我們認為這些交易顯示出許多策略型企業如今對燃料電池的信念程度。那只是眾多公司中的三家。還有很多其他公司在尋求合作機會，不論是在商用卡車、乘用車（pas car）、或是堆高機領域。現在有相當多的參與者正在看到氫能在燃料電池上的機會。坦白說，某種程度上我認為他們在 12 到 24 個月前並沒有看到這一點。這些事情需要一些時間，才能從討論發酵到合作，並確保我們有正確的產品供應，進而進入專案與部署。因此就影響而言，可能會比你所提到的時間點更早出現一些溫和的影響。但我認為從 2023 年開始，產業將出現非常陡峭的成長曲線，而我們認為 Ballard 正處於其中的核心。

So in terms of impact, there may be some modest impact earlier then you're highlighting. But I think 2023 forward we will see a very steep growth curve in the industry and waiting Ballard is at the center of this./

因此就影響而言，可能會比你所提到的時間點更早出現一些溫和的影響。但我認為從 2023 年開始，我們將在產業中看到非常陡峭的成長曲線，而 Ballard 正處於其中的核心。/

And then in relation to the H2Bus opportunity, of the 1,000 buses, how should we view Ballard sort of opportunity set here? Are you potentially going to participate in all of these 1,000 buses or a portion of these? How will that play out do you think?

另外，關於 H2Bus 的機會，在這 1,000 輛巴士之中，我們應該如何看待 Ballard 在此的機會範圍？你們是否可能參與這 1,000 輛中的全部，或其中一部分？你認為這會如何發展？

So just to be clear, the consortium has come together for the deployment of 1,000 fuel cell electric buses in Europe, 600 of them already have secured funding. We expect 200 them to be deployed in Latvia, 200 in the UK and 200 in Denmark, of course, where we have our European head office as well. So what we see, 600 of those as moving forward, all of them, the 600 plus all of the additional 400, and there's lots of work going on to identify these cities and countries for those additional 400. We expect all 1,000 of those to have Ballard fuel cell engines inside. And the way the consortium was structured was that the pricing and the lean forward together the consortium members was based on again what I characterize as relatively modest volume. So we're very excited about this development. It took a lot of work for the consortium to come together and approach cities and countries for these deployments. So we're very pleased with how this consortium has come together. We've got some great partners there and a very powerful opportunity that will showcase, again that was leading fuel cell engines for bus applications in a pretty significant scaling compared to where Europe has been historically.

所以為了說清楚，該聯盟已經集結起來，目標是在歐洲部署 1,000 輛燃料電池電動巴士，其中 600 輛已經取得資金支持。我們預期其中 200 輛將部署在拉脫維亞、200 輛在英國、200 輛在丹麥，當然丹麥也是我們歐洲總部所在地。因此我們看到，這 600 輛都在推進中——全部這 600 輛，加上另外的 400 輛；目前也有大量工作在進行，以確認那額外 400 輛所對應的城市與國家。我們預期這 1,000 輛都將搭載 Ballard 的燃料電池引擎。而該聯盟的架構方式是：定價以及聯盟成員共同向前推進的方式，是基於我所形容的、相對溫和的出貨量。所以我們對這項發展感到非常振奮。聯盟能夠集結並與各城市與國家接洽以推動這些部署，花了大量的努力。因此我們對這個聯盟的成形方式感到非常滿意。我們有一些很棒的合作夥伴，以及一個非常強大的機會，將再次展示我們在巴士應用上的領先燃料電池引擎，且相較於歐洲過往的歷史水準，這將是相當顯著的規模化擴張。

With respect to Weichai-Ballard plan, any changes to the timeline or you still expecting commissioning in early 2020?

關於濰柴-Ballard 計畫，時程是否有任何變動？你們仍然預期在 2020 年初進行投產啟用（commissioning）嗎？

You've hit it correct. So we made excellent progress in the second quarter and in fact, year-to-date. We continue to ramp up on staffing. There's a lot of staffing that's occurred in the first half of the year. Facility construction is underway. I'm getting daily pictures from China, of course some visits when I'm there as well. A lot of -- all of the long lead production equipment has been procured and is under manufacturer construction at the supply base. The product development and technology transfer program is going very well ahead of plan. There are some sensitivities from Weichai in terms of making announcements on when certain activities will happen. As you can expect this has high, high visibility in China.

你說得沒錯。我們在第二季、事實上截至目前為止的年度累計，都取得了非常出色的進展。我們持續擴增人力配置。上半年已完成大量招募與到位。廠房建設正在進行中。我每天都會收到來自中國的照片，當然我到那邊時也會親自去看。許多——所有長交期的生產設備都已採購，並在供應端由製造商進行製造。產品開發與技術移轉計畫進展非常順利，且超前原定計畫。濰柴在某些活動何時發生的對外公告上有一些敏感度。如你所預期，這在中國具有非常、非常高的能見度。

This is a major program that's underway and the whole industry and not just Shandong and Beijing have attention on this, but indeed the whole hydrogen fuel cell industry are tracking this with significant interest. So again, we won't get into details about when product -- what product will be produced when, but we're very bullish on the progress that's been made and very confident again in the quality of the counterparty we have here, the relationship with Weichai is very strong.

這是一項正在推進中的重大計畫，整個產業不僅是山東與北京在關注，事實上整個氫燃料電池產業都以高度興趣密切追蹤。因此，我們不會深入談論產品——例如何時會生產什麼產品等細節；但我們對已取得的進展非常樂觀，也再次對我們這裡的合作對象品質充滿信心，我們與濰柴的關係非常穩固。

Just one last one for Tony, maybe, cash burn, are you still expecting $50 million for 2019, Tony?

最後一個問題給 Tony：關於現金消耗（cash burn），你們 2019 年仍然預期是 5,000 萬美元嗎，Tony？

Yes, we kind of burned about $30 million in the first six months of the year that included an investment into the Weichai-Ballard joint venture in Q1. And so we're looking -- we would expect to burn in the second half of the year, roughly the same as the first half and that includes by the way another roughly $7 million investments into the joint venture in Q4. So I suspect a burn not dissimilar first and second half. We also have and just the other point I'd make, we're also -- we had a very good quarter on working capital. We expect to see a little -- fairly significant items flowing through, but we're also investing a bit in CapEx in the second half on the expansion in MEA and advanced manufacturing. So when you put it altogether, think about a similar burn in the second half to the first half.

是的，我們在今年前六個月大約消耗了 3,000 萬美元，其中包含第一季對濰柴-Ballard 合資企業的一筆投資。因此我們看——我們預期下半年消耗大致與上半年相當，順帶一提，其中也包含第四季對合資企業另外約 700 萬美元的投資。所以我推測上下半年消耗不會有太大差異。另外我想補充的一點是，我們在營運資金方面這一季表現非常好。我們預期會有一些——相當顯著的項目流入/流出，但同時我們也會在下半年於資本支出（CapEx）上投入一些，用於 MEA 擴產以及先進製造。所以綜合起來看，下半年的消耗大致會與上半年相近。

(Operator Instructions) Our next question comes from Jeff Osborne with Cowen and Company.

(接線員指示) 下一個問題來自 Cowen and Company 的 Jeff Osborne。

A couple of questions on my end. Is there still discussion about Broad-Ocean investing in the Weichai JV, I might have missed that, but I didn't see any reference to it in the MD&A or in your prepared remarks?

我這邊有幾個問題。是否仍在討論 Broad-Ocean 投資濰柴的合資公司（JV）？我可能漏聽了，但我在管理層討論與分析（MD&A）或你們事先準備的發言中沒有看到任何提及。

We did have discussions to invite Broad-Ocean to participate in the Weichai-Ballard JV. They've decided not to do that. So we're quite happy with the outcome because we gave them the opportunity to participate, and we like to have in the 49% position. We think the JV is going to have very high value in the future and want to own as much of it as possible.

我們確實曾討論邀請 Broad-Ocean 參與濰柴-Ballard 合資公司。他們已決定不參與。因此我們對結果相當滿意，因為我們給了他們參與的機會，而我們也希望能維持在 49% 的持股位置。我們認為這家合資公司未來將具有非常高的價值，並希望盡可能持有更多股權。

And then I saw in the filing that -- I think Weichai was around $6.2 million, Tony. And then -- first of all, if that's right, but you flagged that the gross margins would expand throughout the year. Can you just give us a sense of what's driving that margin expansion? I assume Weichai goes up, but is there any other program? Is that the mix towards bus, I'm just trying to get a sense of the moving pieces on the top line that's going to drive the margins?

另外我在申報文件中看到——我想濰柴大約是 620 萬美元，Tony。然後——首先，如果這個數字沒錯的話，你提到毛利率會在全年逐步擴大。你能否讓我們了解一下，是什麼在推動毛利率擴張？我猜濰柴的貢獻會增加，但還有其他專案嗎？這是否與產品組合往巴士傾斜有關？我只是想了解一下，營收端有哪些變動因素會推動毛利率提升。

Yes, certainly the TS, Technology Solutions more generally, but certainly the Weichai contribution is going to have an important impact. I also just -- I briefly alluded to overhead absorption as we expect to move more products through the pipeline and into revenue in the second half of the year. So we could see a couple of points of improvement on overhead absorption as well. So I'd say those are the really the two key drivers.

是的，當然，TS（Technology Solutions，技術解決方案）整體而言——但特別是濰柴的貢獻——將會帶來重要影響。另外我也——我稍早簡要提到，隨著我們預期在下半年讓更多產品通過管線並轉為營收，間接費用吸收（overhead absorption）也會改善。因此我們也可能在間接費用吸收上看到幾個百分點的改善。所以我會說，這兩點是最主要的驅動因素。

And then certainly, Randy, I agree with your enthusiasm on the broader sort of developments in the space. Is there -- and certainly investors that I speak to are confused around sort of paring fuel cells with batteries together. If you were stuck in an elevator and had to describe the value proposition of pairing the two together, is there any metrics that you can give as you've worked with potential partners around weight savings for trucks by pairing and also what the battery size reduction would be? I can you use a 50% smaller battery paired together with two fuel cells or one fuel cell through on the tank, you net those out, you get to ex-percent weight and what the impact is to costs, either upfront cost or cost per mile, is that anything that you've put together that you could share?

另外，Randy，我也認同你對於這個領域更廣泛發展的熱忱。我所接觸的投資人對於把燃料電池與電池搭配在一起有些困惑。如果你被困在電梯裡，必須用一句話說明兩者搭配的價值主張，你是否能提供一些指標？例如你們與潛在合作夥伴合作時，透過搭配在卡車上可節省多少重量，以及電池容量可以縮小多少？例如我是否可以用小 50% 的電池，搭配兩套燃料電池或一套燃料電池再加上儲氫罐；把這些加總抵消後，最終可達到 x% 的減重，以及對成本的影響——不論是前期成本或每英里成本——你們是否有整理過任何可以分享的內容？

I think every used case is quite different and we've looked at a number of used cases and have capability in-house here to look at what's the right mix of fuel cells and batteries. So without having a specific metric to give you what I would say in an elevator environment is really what you're doing is, you're taking power density and energy density, and you're optimizing a solution for the duty cycle and providing the customer with a optimized solution that's going to meet the market requirements, I think very strongly. So I don't think there is one metric, it will take a little bit more about and see if something we could help you on that front. But we've modeled a number of different use cases and I've seen different outcomes on those, depending on what the use cases are, but I think the opportunity for driving long-range, keeping cost as low as possible.

我認為每個使用案例都相當不同，我們已經研究了許多使用案例，並且我們內部具備能力來評估燃料電池與電池的正確組合。因此，在沒有一個特定指標可以提供給你的情況下，如果用電梯簡報的方式來說，你真正做的是把功率密度與能量密度納入考量，並針對工作循環（duty cycle）去最佳化解決方案，提供客戶一個經過最佳化、能夠滿足市場需求的方案，我對此非常有信心。所以我不認為只有單一指標；我們需要再多花一點時間看看是否能在這方面協助你。不過我們已對多種不同使用案例進行建模，我也看到依使用案例不同而出現不同結果；但我認為機會在於推動長續航，同時盡可能把成本維持在最低。

And in my mind one of the key aspects of this Jeff is, you really have the ability to operate the fuel cell at the right power output, so that you're not having wear and tear on the fuel cell. You have the ability to have the appropriate level of state of discharge on the battery. So you can avoid deep discharge on the battery. So you can preserve the durability of the battery. So I think there is a mix of ways to view this. And one of them is to make sure you're mitigating the pressure points for both the fuel cell technology and the battery technology to have high durability of both components in an optimized solution.

而在我看來，Jeff，這其中一個關鍵面向是：你確實有能力讓燃料電池在適當的功率輸出下運作，這樣就不會讓燃料電池產生磨耗。你也有能力讓電池維持在適當的放電狀態（state of discharge）。因此你可以避免電池深度放電。因此你可以維持電池的耐久性。所以我認為有多種方式可以看待這件事。其中之一就是確保你正在緩解燃料電池技術與電池技術各自的壓力點，讓兩個元件在最佳化解決方案中都能具備高耐久性。

Is there a way of maybe just in broad strokes, rank ordering the applications? It sounds like trucks where weighed as a penalty because there's limitations legally on that plus range. So trucks are first, buses are second and maybe passenger cars are third in terms of the value proposition today, but obviously things improved and pas cars in the mid-2020s might make more sense or...

是否能用比較概括的方式，將各種應用做個排序？聽起來卡車因為法規上的重量限制再加上續航等因素，重量被視為一種劣勢。所以就目前的價值主張而言，卡車排第一、巴士排第二、乘用車可能排第三；但顯然隨著技術改善，2020年代中期的乘用車可能會更合理，或是……

Yes, exactly. That sounds right. And for us, you just said pas car in the mid 2020's, of course pas car is such a large market, you only need a small portion of market share there, but what we're really excited about is the longer-term outlook as you've described in your own publications for the opportunity for digital connected autonomous vehicles that have high power requirements on-board, plus have high utilization. And there we see the future growth of fuel cells while we'll see it in 2025 time frame for sure, we expect to see very high adoption of post 2025 as you move to 2030 and 2040.

是的，完全正確。聽起來沒錯。至於我們，你剛提到2020年代中期的乘用車，當然乘用車是個非常大的市場，即使只拿到一小部分市占也很可觀；但我們真正感到興奮的是更長期的展望，正如你在自己的出版物中所描述的：數位化、互聯、具自動駕駛能力的車輛，車上有高功率需求，且使用率高。在那裡我們看到燃料電池未來的成長；雖然我們確實預期在2025年前後會看到，但我們預期在2025年之後、邁向2030與2040時，採用率會非常高。

And then the last one and I might have missed it again trying to speed read the filing, but can you just give us an update on anything going on or lack thereof with Hyster-Yale and CRRC, those are two partners that you've talked about in the past and didn't hear any reference to those?

最後一個問題，我可能又漏看了，因為我在快速瀏覽申報文件；但你能否更新一下Hyster-Yale和CRRC那邊是否有任何進展，或是沒有進展？這兩個是你們過去談過的合作夥伴，但我沒有聽到任何提及。

There is quite a bit of activity going on in the rail industry in Europe and in China. We're seeing activity with CRRC. In fact, again the CSR Sifang tram line that was supposed to be operational about a year or two has had major construction delays. There are 10 engines we delivered there. Just a couple of days ago, we got the first videos of the first trams actually in on the Gaoming Line in Guangdong Province actually are testing. So that's great to see and the line is supposed to be operational late this year. So that's a very encouraging signal. In my mind, that's a key next step in the gating item for future activity with CSR Sifang and CRRC. There are also some activity going on in Tangshan, and continue to do testing there and see opportunities with TRC, another division of CRRC.

歐洲與中國的鐵道產業目前有相當多的活動。我們看到與CRRC相關的動態。事實上，再次提到原本預計約一兩年前就要投入營運的CSR四方有軌電車線，因重大施工延誤而推遲。我們在那裡交付了10套引擎。就在幾天前，我們收到第一批影片，顯示廣東省高明線上的第一批電車正在進行測試。所以看到這點很棒，而該線路預計在今年稍晚投入營運。因此這是一個非常令人鼓舞的訊號。在我看來，這是未來與CSR四方及CRRC後續活動的一個關鍵下一步、也是重要的關卡項目（gating item）。唐山也有一些活動，並持續在那裡進行測試，同時也看到與TRC（CRRC的另一個事業部）合作的機會。

So I think there's certainly lots of activity going on. It hasn't translated to new revenue yet, but we do see significant rail opportunity in the China market long term. And in Hyster-Yale, they continue to move forward. I think their results are coming out, I think it came up yesterday or coming on the next day or two, I have forgotten when their sequence is, but they'll comment on the number of deployments they have, obviously in the fuel cell space. I think they're -- from what they've commented on in prior quarters, I think their ramp rate has been a little slower than expected and that's what we've seen as well.

所以我認為確實有很多活動正在進行。目前尚未轉化為新的營收，但長期來看，我們確實在中國市場看到顯著的鐵道機會。至於Hyster-Yale，他們也持續推進。我想他們的業績正在公布，我記得可能是昨天公布或接下來一兩天，我忘了他們的時程順序，但他們會評論他們的部署數量，顯然是在燃料電池領域。我認為——根據他們在前幾季的評論——他們的放量速度（ramp rate）比預期稍慢，而我們這邊看到的情況也是如此。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the conference back over to Randy MacEwen, CEO, for any closing remarks.

問答環節到此結束。我想把電話會議交回給執行長Randy MacEwen，請他做結語。

Thank you for joining us today. We look forward to speaking with you again at the end of October, when we will discuss third quarter 2019 results. Thanks again, everyone.

感謝各位今天加入我們。我們期待在10月底再次與各位交流，屆時我們將討論2019年第三季業績。再次感謝大家。

This concludes, today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines. Thank you for participating and have a pleasant day.

今天的電話會議到此結束。各位可以掛斷電話線。感謝各位參與，祝各位有美好的一天。