Better Home & Finance Holding Co (BETR) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and thank you for standing by. My name is [Lacey] and I will be your conference operator today. At this time I would like to welcome everyone to the Better Home and Finance Holding Company second-quarter 2025 results conference call. (Operator Instructions)

您好，感謝您的支持。我的名字是 [Lacey]，今天我將擔任您的會議接線生。現在，我歡迎大家參加 Better Home and Finance Holding Company 2025 年第二季業績電話會議。（操作員指示）

Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Tarek Afifi. You may begin.

謝謝。現在我想將會議交給塔里克·阿菲菲。你可以開始了。

Welcome to Better Home and Finance Holding Company second quarter earnings conference call. My name is Tarek Afifi, Corporate Finance at Better. Joining me on today's call are Vishal Garg, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Better; and Kevin Ryan, Chief Financial Officer of Better. In addition to this conference call, please direct your attention to our second quarter earnings release, which is available on our Investor Relations website. Also available on our website is an investor presentation.

歡迎參加 Better Home and Finance Holding Company 第二季財報電話會議。我叫 Tarek Afifi，是 Better 的企業財務人員。參加今天電話會議的還有 Better 創辦人兼執行長 Vishal Garg 和 Better 財務長 Kevin Ryan。除了本次電話會議之外，還請關注我們的第二季財報，該報告可在我們的投資者關係網站上查閱。我們的網站上也提供了一份投資者介紹。

Certain statements we make today may constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of federal securities laws that are based on current expectations and assumptions. These expectations and assumptions are subject to risks, uncertainties, and other factors as discussed further in our SEC filings that could cause our actual results to differ materially from our historical results. We assume no responsibility to update forward-looking statements other than as required by law.

我們今天所做的某些聲明可能構成基於當前預期和假設的聯邦證券法含義內的前瞻性聲明。這些預期和假設受風險、不確定性和其他因素的影響，正如我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中進一步討論的那樣，這些因素可能導致我們的實際結果與歷史結果存在重大差異。除法律要求外，我們不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的責任。

These non-GAAP financial measures are reconciled to GAAP financial measures in today's earnings release and investor presentation, both of which are available on the Investor Relations section of Better's website and when filed in our quarterly report on Form 10-Q filed with the SEC. Amounts described as of and for the quarter ended June 30, 2025, represent a preliminary estimate as of the date of this earnings release and may be revised upon filing our quarterly report on Form 10-Q with the SEC. More information as of and for the quarter ended June 30, 2025, will be provided upon filing our quarterly report on Form 10-Q with the SEC.

這些非 GAAP 財務指標與今天的收益報告和投資者介紹中的 GAAP 財務指標一致，這兩個指標都可以在 Better 網站的投資者關係部分找到，也可以在我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-Q 表季度報告中找到。截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日當季所述的金額代表截至本收益報告發布之日的初步估計，並可能在向美國證券交易委員會提交 10-Q 表季度報告時進行修訂。截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日當季的更多資訊將在向美國證券交易委員會提交 10-Q 表季度報告時提供。

I will now turn the call over to Vishal.

現在我將把電話轉給維沙爾。

Thank you, Tarek, and welcome to our second-quarter 2025 earnings call. We appreciate everyone joining us today and for your continued support as we advance our mission to make homeownership better, faster, and easier for our customers by building an AI-native technology platform that revolutionizes the entire homeownership journey, helping consumers go through the entire mortgage and home equity process in as little as one day.

謝謝你，塔里克，歡迎參加我們的 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。我們感謝今天加入我們的每一個人，也感謝你們一直以來的支持，我們將透過建立一個人工智慧原生技術平台來推進我們的使命，為我們的客戶提供更好、更快、更輕鬆的購房體驗，該平台徹底改變了整個購房過程，幫助消費者在短短一天內完成整個抵押貸款和房屋淨值流程。

We continue to drive progress towards this vision in which every customer can seamlessly buy, sell, refinance, insure, and improve their home online instantly at a competitive price. These objectives are: one, leaning into growth in AI to drive increased volume and revenue; two, continuously improving our efficiency driven by ongoing advancements in our technology; three, diversifying our product and go-to-market strategies along with our distribution channels; and four, reducing our corporate costs as a percentage of our revenue, all with the goal of achieving profitability.

我們將繼續努力實現這一願景，讓每位客戶都能以具有競爭力的價格在線無縫地購買、出售、再融資、投保和改善他們的房屋。這些目標是：第一，依靠人工智慧的成長來推動銷售和收入的成長；第二，透過我們技術的持續進步不斷提高我們的效率；第三，使我們的產品和市場進入策略以及分銷管道多樣化；第四，降低我們的企業成本佔收入的百分比，所有這些都是為了實現盈利。

Better is the first scaled mortgage tech platform built to empower consumers and more recently, empower local mortgage bankers and financial institutions with Tinman technology to serve their end customer needs. This sets us apart from the rest of the mortgage industry and in the face of market challenges, creates tremendous greenfield opportunity for Better. We remain focused on driving towards profitability by continuing to lean into Tinman technology and AI with Betsy executing approximately 600,000 consumer interactions in Q2, our AI underwriting growing to over 43% of locked loans with a clear path to 75% in the near future and our loan officer productivity in terms of funds per month increasing to over 3x the mortgage industry median.

Better 是第一個規模化的抵押貸款技術平台，旨在增強消費者的能力，最近，它利用 Tinman 技術來增強當地抵押貸款銀行家和金融機構的能力，以滿足最終客戶的需求。這使我們在抵押貸款行業中脫穎而出，並且在面臨市場挑戰時，為 Better 創造了巨大的綠地機會。我們將繼續專注於推動盈利，繼續依靠 Tinman 技術和人工智慧，Betsy 在第二季度執行了大約 600,000 次消費者互動，我們的人工智慧承保增長到鎖定貸款的 43% 以上，並且在不久的將來有望達到 75%，我們的貸款官員的每月資金生產力將提高到抵押貸款行業中位數的 3 倍以上。

We've been talking about our path to profitability in the medium term for some time. With all of the advancements in our AI platform and the progress that we are seeing in bringing on not just mortgage advisers that are local market professionals, but also other large-scale enterprises that want to enter the mortgage business through our platform, I am pleased to share that we now have the visibility and expectation to achieve adjusted EBITDA breakeven by the third quarter of 2026, basically within the next year. Kevin will speak more on this shortly.

一段時間以來，我們一直在談論中期獲利之路。隨著我們人工智慧平台的不斷進步，以及我們在吸引本地市場專業人士抵押貸款顧問以及其他希望透過我們的平台進入抵押貸款業務的大型企業方面取得的進展，我很高興地告訴大家，我們現在有預見性地期望在 2026 年第三季度（基本上在明年）實現調整後的 EBITDA 收支平衡。凱文很快就會就此發表更多演說。

We have built a platform that is AI-first. While consumer adoption behavior of AI takes time, it is increasing at an exponential rate. We are one of the few mortgage companies, if not the only mortgage company in the US, with a full-scale tech stack in one place, all in one flow and entirely APIable to Agentic AI.

我們已經建構了一個以人工智慧為先的平台。雖然消費者對人工智慧的採用行為需要時間，但它正在以指數級的速度成長。我們是美國為數不多的抵押貸款公司之一，甚至是唯一一家擁有一站式全套技術堆疊、一體化流程且完全可與 Agentic AI 介接的抵押貸款公司。

Betsy has been built from scratch on our knowledge base that has been developed on 12 million-plus recorded phone calls, 500,000-plus funded loan files with the entire consumer financial graph and property graph matched to the investors' detailed line item fact-based criteria and 6 million pre-applications over the past eight years, and it is continuing to learn every day from every customer interaction. Since we launched Betsy AI, our lead-to-lock conversion rate has increased by over 30% from 3.3% to 4.4% which is massively meaningful to drive incremental volume and revenue and squeezing profitability out of each loan.

Betsy 是在我們的知識庫基礎上從零開始構建的，該知識庫基於過去八年中超過 1200 萬個錄音電話、超過 500,000 個已發放貸款文件（其中包含與投資者詳細的基於事實的標準相匹配的整個消費者財務圖表和客戶互動）以及 600 萬份預申請，並且它每天都在從每次申請中學習。自從我們推出 Betsy AI 以來，我們的潛在客戶到鎖定轉換率已經從 3.3% 提高到 4.4%，提高了 30% 以上，這對於推動增量交易量和收入以及從每筆貸款中榨取盈利能力具有重大意義。

Now as you can tell, we've still got a really long way to go to keep on improving that lead-to-lock conversion rate. But as we scale Betsy at near zero marginal cost because it's all built on our own internal proprietary Tinman platform, we believe that we can further improve our unit economics as the mortgage market stabilizes over time with relatively de minimis increases in fixed CapEx.

現在正如您所看到的，我們還有很長的路要走才能繼續提高從潛在客戶到鎖定客戶的轉換率。但是，由於 Betsy 完全建立在我們自己的內部專有 Tinman 平台上，因此我們能夠以接近零的邊際成本擴展 Betsy，我們相信，隨著抵押貸款市場隨著時間的推移而穩定下來，固定資本支出的增加相對較少，我們可以進一步改善我們的單位經濟效益。

Betsy has led to an even better customer experience. For customers who opt to speak with the human, Betsy will help find the most talented individual on our sales team for that customer to interact with for their specific needs. Since we've adopted Betsy, our Net Promoter Score has increased from 39 to 64, putting our score in line with companies like Google and Apple and far superior to that of traditional mortgage companies and financial institutions.

Betsy 帶來了更好的客戶體驗。對於選擇與人工交談的客戶，Betsy 將幫助我們的銷售團隊找到最有才華的個人，以便客戶與他們互動，滿足他們的特定需求。自從我們採用 Betsy 以來，我們的淨推薦值已從 39 增加到 64，使我們的分數與谷歌和蘋果等公司保持一致，並且遠遠優於傳統抵押貸款公司和金融機構。

Betsy is built on top of our machine learning pricing and eligibility engine, which we internally call DE, which uses the consumer's financial graph and the property graph, and each specific data element is matched to the criteria set by each individual mortgage investor directly within our platform. It is able to run hundreds of thousands of pricing permutations across the now over 45 mortgage investors who buy the loans on our platform as they are funded on a loan-by-loan basis. These loan purchases include GSEs, banks, REITs, and increasingly private credit funds, all of whom bring different guidelines, risk-return preferences, and other criteria to our platform. They represent over $1 trillion in demand, bidding on loans each day that match the criteria and portfolio needs, and with our platform fulfilling those criteria at an error rate that is substantially lower than the industry's.

Betsy 建立在我們的機器學習定價和資格引擎之上，我們內部稱之為 DE，它使用消費者的財務圖表和財產圖表，並且每​​個特定的數據元素都與每個抵押貸款投資者在我們的平台內直接設定的標準相匹配。它能夠對目前在我們的平台上購買貸款的 45 多家抵押貸款投資者進行數十萬種定價排列，因為他們的貸款是按每筆貸款的方式提供資金的。這些貸款購買者包括政府支持企業、銀行、房地產投資信託基金以及越來越多的私人信貸基金，它們都為我們的平台帶來了不同的指導方針、風險回報偏好和其他標準。他們代表超過 1 兆美元的需求，每天都在競標符合標準和投資組合需求的貸款，而我們的平台滿足這些標準的錯誤率遠低於行業水平。

Over the next one to two years, we expect to significantly grow our investor network, particularly as the private credit market moves further into consumer asset-based finance. Within consumer lending, mortgage and home equity is over 85% of the total addressable market and is particularly attractive to private credit as it has a robust track record in recessionary periods on a basis relative to unsecured consumer debt like personal loans, credit cards, and BNPL loans.

在未來一到兩年內，我們預計將大幅擴大我們的投資者網絡，特別是隨著私人信貸市場進一步進入消費資產融資。在消費貸款領域，抵押貸款和房屋淨值佔總目標市場的 85% 以上，對私人信貸尤其有吸引力，因為相對於個人貸款、信用卡和 BNPL 貸款等無擔保消費債務，它在經濟衰退時期有著強勁的業績記錄。

Our credit and underwriting quality are best-in-class. Yet aside from the short window that we hold the loans due to settlement, we do not take any credit risk as we have forward commitments to sell each loan to investors the moment they are locked and funded. This model remains unique in the fintech landscape, where a very large number of the originators that started out as marketplaces have now moved on to actually holding credit risk on their books.

我們的信用和承保品質是一流的。然而，除了我們因結算而持有貸款的短暫時間之外，我們不會承擔任何信用風險，因為我們承諾在每筆貸款被鎖定和注資後立即將其出售給投資者。這種模式在金融科技領域仍然是獨一無二的，其中大量最初作為市場起步的發起者現在已經轉向實際承擔信用風險。

Better is doing exactly the same thing today as it did when it opened its doors in January of 2016. We do not hold credit risk on the assets that we originate. And we believe this will serve us well if we enter into a recessionary climate.

Better 今天所做的事情與 2016 年 1 月開業時完全一樣。我們不會對我們發行的資產承擔信用風險。我們相信，如果我們進入經濟衰退時期，這將對我們大有裨益。

As we look to the second half of 2025 and beyond, our strategic priorities remain focused on what lies in our control. Our first priority is to continue to propel growth opportunities independent of broader economic and mortgage market conditions. In the second quarter of 2025, on a year-over-year basis, we grew funded loan volume by 25% to $1.2 billion and revenue by 37% to $44.1 million, driven by funding more loans, both through our D2C and Tinman AI platform channels at higher gain on sale compared to the period past.

展望 2025 年下半年及以後，我們的策略重點仍集中在我們能夠控制的事情上。我們的首要任務是繼續推動不受更廣泛的經濟和抵押貸款市場狀況影響的成長機會。2025 年第二季度，與去年同期相比，我們的貸款融資額成長了 25%，達到 12 億美元，營收成長了 37%，達到 4,410 萬美元，這得益於我們透過 D2C 和 Tinman AI 平台管道提供的更多貸款，且銷售收益高於上一時期。

During the quarter, year-on-year funded loan volume growth was driven by HELOC and home equity loans increasing by 166%, refinance loan volume increasing by 109%, and purchase loan volume increasing by 1%. Our overall growth in the quarter is attributable to the strategic investments we've made in technology, product innovation, and distribution expansion, including Betsy AI, our Tinman AI platform strategy with NEO powered by Better being proven out, and the efficient expansion of D2C driven by the efficiencies we are gaining implementing AI throughout the entire platform.

本季度，貸款額年增率主要得益於 HELOC 和房屋淨值貸款成長 166%，再融資貸款額成長 109%，以及購屋貸款額成長 1%。我們本季的整體成長歸功於我們在技術、產品創新和分銷擴展方面所做的策略投資，包括 Betsy AI、我們的 Tinman AI 平台策略（由 Better 提供支援的 NEO 已得到驗證），以及由我們在整個平台實施 AI 所獲得的效率所推動的 D2C 高效擴展。

These strategic initiatives have positioned us to capitalize on a broader set of market opportunities, enhance our operational efficiency, and continue to drive sustainable growth with revenue growth outstripping loan origination volume growth, both in the quarter that just passed and what we expect to be in the quarters to come. Our second priority on the path to profitability is to continue to reduce our expenses and improve our operational efficiency with the goal of reaching adjusted EBITDA breakeven by Q3 2026, essentially within the next 12 months.

這些策略舉措使我們能夠利用更廣泛的市場機遇，提高我們的營運效率，並繼續推動永續成長，無論是在剛剛過去的季度還是在未來幾個季度中，收入成長都超過貸款發放量的成長。我們在獲利道路上的第二個優先事項是繼續降低開支並提高營運效率，目標是到 2026 年第三季（基本上是在未來 12 個月內）實現調整後的 EBITDA 收支平衡。

With our Tinman AI platform, we have been able to automate time and labor-intensive components of the mortgage process and continuously reduce our cost to originate to approximately half of the industry average. Over the coming 12 months, we expect to drive that even further to have it reach approximately a third of the industry average and then continue to keep growing as the consumer adoption of AI and interaction with AI continues to improve our ability to take costs out of the manufacturing process of mortgage. While we expect loan origination expenses will increase as we grow volume, we believe our continued investments in AI with our product and engineering road maps well on track will significantly drive down costs further, resulting in improved operating efficiency and unit economics.

借助我們的 Tinman AI 平台，我們能夠自動化抵押貸款流程中耗時耗力的部分，並持續將我們的發起成本降低到行業平均水平的約一半。在未來的 12 個月中，我們預計將進一步推動這一目標，達到行業平均水平的三分之一左右，然後隨著消費者對人工智慧的採用和與人工智慧的互動不斷提高我們從抵押貸款製造過程中降低成本的能力，這一目標將繼續保持成長。雖然我們預計貸款發放費用將隨著貸款數量的增長而增加，但我們相信，隨著我們的產品和工程路線圖進展順利，我們對人工智慧的持續投資將進一步顯著降低成本，從而提高營運效率和單位經濟效益。

Lastly, our third priority is to continue diversifying our product and platform distribution channels. We serve the end consumer now, both through our direct-to-consumer model and through our AI platform model, which includes Tinman as a platform and Tinman as a software. In our D2C business, we serve the consumer directly on better.com. We were founded on revolutionizing the consumer experience for the home finance process. And as such, our D2C business has always been at the forefront of pushing the envelope on what technology can execute in the mortgage industry.

最後，我們的第三個優先事項是繼續使我們的產品和平台分銷管道多樣化。我們現在透過直接面向消費者的模式和人工智慧平台模式為最終消費者提供服務，其中包括 Tinman 作為平台和 Tinman 作為軟體。在我們的D2C業務中，我們透過better.com直接為消費者提供服務。我們成立的初衷是徹底改變消費者在房屋金融流程中的體驗。因此，我們的 D2C 業務始終處於推動抵押貸款產業技術發展前沿。

We have funded over $100 billion in loans on the D2C platform, which has served as a basis for training the AI and continuously creates a positive feedback loop, improving each and every day. Our D2C business allows us the opportunity to roll out and test new AI features at a scale and with a speed that others simply cannot match. And within our D2C unit channel, our unit economics continue to improve as we continue to drive AI throughout the entire process.

我們在 D2C 平台上已經為超過 1000 億美元的貸款提供了資金，該平台作為訓練人工智慧的基礎，並不斷形成積極的反饋循環，每天都在進步。我們的 D2C 業務使我們有機會以其他人無法比擬的規模和速度推出和測試新的 AI 功能。在我們的 D2C 單位管道中，隨著我們在整個過程中繼續推動人工智慧，我們的單位經濟效益也不斷改善。

As you can see in the earnings deck that we've distributed along with our materials, our contribution margin or per loan profitability has continued to increase as the operating cost of fund has continued to decrease, driven by both conversion gains and the implementation of AI in the sales and operations workflows. More specifically, in Q2 2025 for D2C, revenue per loan was $78.86 per loan. Our cost per fund was $68.22 for a contribution profit of $1,064 and a contribution margin of 13%.

正如您在我們隨材料分發的收益報告中看到的，我們的貢獻利潤率或每筆貸款的盈利能力持續增加，因為基金的運營成本持續下降，這得益於轉換收益以及在銷售和運營工作流程中實施人工智能。更具體地說，2025 年第二季度，D2C 每筆貸款的收入為 78.86 美元。我們每個基金的成本為 68.22 美元，貢獻利潤為 1,064 美元，貢獻利潤率為 13%。

Again, we have continued to optimize our pricing so that we remain competitive with the major players in the market. But as you can see, our total cost to originate is about half that of the mortgage industry average, which includes our customer acquisition costs. And we expect to continue to drive that down as we both increase conversion and lower CAC, and improve labor costs and thereby lower the cost to fund significantly.

再次，我們不斷優化我們的定價，以便與市場上的主要參與者保持競爭力。但如您所見，我們的總發起成本約為抵押貸款行業平均水平的一半，其中包括我們的客戶獲取成本。我們預計，隨著我們提高轉換率、降低 CAC、改善勞動成本，從而大幅降低融資成本，這一數字將繼續下降。

Next, we serve the customer through our Tinman AI platform, powering local retail loan officers across the United States, for which we continue to see early rapid growth. In this model, we are effectively serving as a platform provider and P&L partner in the mortgage origination process with nearly zero customer acquisition cost because the mortgage retail loan officers bring their customers, their relationships, and their transactions to bear on our Tinman AI platform.

接下來，我們透過 Tinman AI 平台為客戶提供服務，為美國各地的本地零售貸款人員提供支持，我們將繼續看到平台的早期快速成長。在這種模式下，我們實際上充當了抵押貸款發放過程中的平台提供者和損益合作夥伴，客戶獲取成本幾乎為零，因為抵押貸款零售貸款官員將他們的客戶、他們的關係和他們的交易帶到了我們的 Tinman AI 平台上。

We are quickly disrupting the traditional retail mortgage origination market by onboarding loan officers and branches onto our Tinman AI platform, empowering them to do more loans than they've ever done before, remove friction from their fulfillment process, and expand their capacity to help more customers through the lead flow that we generate from. We expect over time that these loan officers will be able to compress a staggering 80% of their back-office costs by using our platform.

我們正在透過將貸款人員和分行納入我們的 Tinman AI 平台來迅速顛覆傳統的零售抵押貸款發放市場，使他們能夠發放比以往更多的貸款，消除履行過程中的摩擦，並擴大他們透過我們產生的潛在客戶流量幫助更多客戶的能力。我們預計，隨著時間的推移，這些貸款人員將能夠透過使用我們的平台壓縮高達 80% 的後台成本。

The market for the Tinman AI platform business is massive, and we are just getting started. For context, over $1.2 trillion of mortgage volume in 2024 was originated by retail loan officers and mortgage brokers on antiquated technology and high operating costs. Just 1% of that market would translate to $12 billion in new loan volume, with again, nearly zero customer acquisition cost to better. We continue to make great progress on the Tinman AI platform with our first and now well-proven launch of NEO Powered by Better.

Tinman AI平台業務的市場非常巨大，而我們才剛起步。具體來說，2024 年超過 1.2 兆美元的抵押貸款金額是由零售貸款人員和抵押貸款經紀人利用過時的技術和高昂的營運成本發放的。僅佔該市場的 1% 就可帶來 120 億美元的新貸款額，而且客戶獲取成本幾乎為零。隨著我們首次推出現已充分驗證的 NEO Powered by Better，我們在 Tinman AI 平台上繼續取得巨大進展。

We began production with NEO at the start of 2025 and have high aspirations for the road ahead. In Q2, we funded 429 million loans for 1,009 families with NEO Powered by Better, an increase of 164% and 176%, respectively, compared with the prior quarter. The unit economics of our Tinman AI platform are quite strong. Specifically, in Q2 2025, for every loan funded on the Tinman AI platform on NEO Powered by Better, we generated a contribution profit of $6,172 on a revenue per loan of $15,538, resulting in a contribution margin of 40% for the Tinman AI platform.

我們在 2025 年初開始使用 NEO 進行生產，並對未來的道路充滿期望。第二季度，我們透過 NEO Powered by Better 為 1,009 個家庭發放了 4.29 億筆貸款，較上季分別成長 164% 和 176%。我們的 Tinman AI 平台的單位經濟效益相當強勁。具體來說，在 2025 年第二季度，對於 NEO Powered by Better 上的 Tinman AI 平台資助的每筆貸款，我們在每筆貸款收入 15,538 美元的基礎上創造了 6,172 美元的貢獻利潤，從而使 Tinman AI 平台的貢獻利潤率為 40%。

As we are able to increase penetration of the Tinman AI platform's processes for the retail loan officers, we expect that margin to increase even further, enabling us to either compensate these retail loan officers more handsomely or help drive more profits for them and their branches over time, which we believe, combined together, create like a holy trifecta. Tinman AI platform enables retail loan officers to do more loans, serve more customers while working the same hours, and with a lower cost to fund, resulting in dramatic increases in profitability for their business versus being on a traditional retail platform or mortgage broker platform.

隨著我們能夠提高 Tinman AI 平台流程對零售貸款人員的滲透率，我們預計利潤率將進一步提高，使我們能夠為這些零售貸款人員提供更豐厚的報酬，或者隨著時間的推移幫助他們及其分支機構創造更多利潤，我們相信，這三者結合起來，就像創造了一個神聖的三連勝。Tinman AI 平台使零售貸款人員能夠在相同工作時間內發放更多貸款、服務更多客戶，並且融資成本更低，與傳統零售平台或抵押貸款經紀平台相比，其業務盈利能力大幅提升。

It is this trifecta that is allowing us to recruit additional local loan officers from highly successful retail mortgage companies, including loanDepot, Nationwide, and Movement Mortgage, just to name a few. Just this last quarter, we onboarded loan officers from these companies that funded over $180 million last year in loan volume. And going forward, we expect to attract even more of these talented high-volume mortgage loan officers in the retail channel due to the superior technology and model offered to them by our platform.

正是這三重優勢使我們能夠從非常成功的零售抵押貸款公司招募更多的本地貸款官員，其中包括 loanDepot、Nationwide 和 Movement Mortgage，僅舉幾例。就在上個季度，我們從這些公司招募了貸款人員，這些公司去年的貸款額超過 1.8 億美元。展望未來，我們期望憑藉我們平台提供的卓越技術和模式，在零售通路吸引更多這樣的優秀大額抵押貸款人員。

Furthermore, the specialized nature of these loan officers are broadening our reach into new loan types that are more nuanced or complex but come with higher margins. These loan types include nonconventional FHA, VA, and jumbo loans. As we continue to expand with NEO Powered by Better and the Tinman AI platform at large, we expect to do more of these specialized loan types with higher gain on sale margins and deeper efficiency through our tech.

此外，這些貸款人員的專業性使我們的業務範圍擴大到更細緻或更複雜但利潤更高的新貸款類型。這些貸款類型包括非傳統的 FHA、VA 和巨額貸款。隨著我們繼續擴展 NEO Powered by Better 和 Tinman AI 平台，我們期望透過我們的技術提供更多此類專業貸款，提高銷售利潤率和效率。

As we have proven the Tinman AI platform with NEO Powered by Better with the entire mortgage industry watching, we have been inundated with other mortgage teams and companies wanting to move their business to the Tinman AI platform. We see massive opportunity in the road ahead with other traditional mortgage originators and are making solid progress executing on a robust pipeline of future clients and partners. I'm proud of the independent achievements we have made with both our D2C and Tinman AI channels. And now to take it a step further, we are working to bridge the two together.

由於我們已經在整個抵押貸款行業的關注下透過 NEO Powered by Better 證明了 Tinman AI 平台的有效性，因此我們收到了大量其他抵押貸款團隊和公司的來信，他們希望將業務轉移到 Tinman AI 平台。我們看到，與其他傳統抵押貸款發起人合作，未來道路上存在著巨大的機遇，並且在建立強大的未來客戶和合作夥伴管道方面取得了堅實的進展。我為我們透過 D2C 和 Tinman AI 管道取得的獨立成就感到自豪。現在，我們更進一步，正在努力將兩者結合起來。

I'm particularly excited by the testing we are now conducting, whereby our AI selectively matches preapproved D2C purchase customers based on a full set of parameters about them and the property that they're buying with localized NEO Powered by Better loan officers who are experts in their particular geographic areas. These loan officers also have terrific relationships established over decades with the realtor community in these markets, and so are able to easily integrate with the existing workflows that those realtors prefer. Once implemented at scale, we see the potential for a significant increase in conversion and incremental volume and revenue at very healthy margins for both the D2C business and the NEO Powered by Better business.

我對我們目前正在進行的測試感到特別興奮，我們的人工智慧將根據有關他們和他們購買的房產的全套參數，有選擇地將預先批准的 D2C 購買客戶與由特定地理區域的專家 Better 貸款官員提供支援的本地化 NEO 進行匹配。這些貸款官員還與這些市場的房地產經紀人群體建立了數十年的良好關係，因此能夠輕鬆地與這些房地產經紀人喜歡的現有工作流程相結合。一旦大規模實施，我們就能看到 D2C 業務和 NEO Powered by Better 業務的轉換率、增量和收入都有可能顯著提高，利潤率也非常可觀。

While we are still in beta mode, we believe this approach can further improve the unit economics of our D2C business over time by generating revenue from customers who would otherwise have not converted on our online platform. In other words, these preapproved leads would have come in through D2C self-serve, realize that they prefer a high-touch experience with a local market expert, and thus been at risk of falling out. Now the AI is selectively determining on an individual basis if that lead would have been more likely to convert with a local market expert on the Tinman AI platform. And our matching algorithm will continue to learn and improve over the next 6 to 12 months, just in time for the 2026 purchase season.

雖然我們仍處於測試模式，但我們相信這種方法可以透過從原本不會在我們的線上平台上轉換的客戶那裡創造收入，進一步提高我們的 D2C 業務的單位經濟效益。換句話說，這些預先批准的潛在客戶會透過 D2C 自助服務進入，意識到他們更喜歡與當地市場專家進行高接觸體驗，因此有失去的風險。現在，人工智慧正在選擇性地根據個人情況確定該線索是否更有可能透過 Tinman AI 平台上的本地市場專家進行轉換。我們的配對演算法將在未來 6 到 12 個月內繼續學習和改進，正好趕上 2026 年的購買季節。

Just to give you a reminder, Better generates over 250,000 preapproved mortgage customers every year. When applied to our average dollar loan volume of nearly $300,000, this implies a total volume potential of $75 billion. And yet our total market share of actually funded purchase originations is currently less than 50 basis points. Our market share by home shoppers per year as a function of the amount of loans that we are preapproving is actually over 10x that, nearly 5%. This showcases the massive opportunity we have by opening a different method of conversion for the customers that come to us for a preapproval.

提醒一下，Better 每年都會產生超過 25 萬名預先批准的抵押貸款客戶。如果將其應用於我們平均近 30 萬美元的美元貸款額，則意味著總貸款額潛力為 750 億美元。然而，我們實際資助的購買發起的總市佔率目前還不到 50 個基點。我們每年購屋者的市場份額（以我們預先批准的貸款金額計算）實際上是該數字的 10 倍多，接近 5%。這展示了我們擁有的巨大機遇，即為來找我們進行預先批准的客戶開闢一種不同的轉換方法。

And coming back to our multipronged distribution, we are serving the customer by also powering banks, credit unions, and other larger mortgage originators that are seeking to license our Tinman AI software to become more efficient and customer-centric. We have built a highly fine-tuned platform for our own business and customers, and we are now seeing demand from others in the industry to directly license our software to use in their own businesses.

回到我們的多管齊下分銷，我們還為銀行、信用合作社和其他大型抵押貸款發起人提供支持，這些機構正在尋求授權我們的 Tinman AI 軟體，以提高效率和以客戶為中心。我們為自己的業務和客戶建立了一個高度精細的平台，現在我們看到業內其他公司要求直接授權我們的軟體用於他們自己的業務。

A lot of banks and credit unions are taking a refreshed look at the mortgage space as the regulatory environment is becoming more favorable. However, bank origination of mortgages has largely been unprofitable given their higher cost to originate. This is where our Timman AI software comes in.

隨著監管環境變得更加有利，許多銀行和信用合作社正在重新審視抵押貸款領域。然而，由於發放成本較高，銀行發放抵押貸款大多無利可圖。這就是我們的 Timman AI 軟體的用武之地。

Our Timman AI software essentially provides mortgage in a box, enabling banks to not only use our software, but also gain access to underwriting resources and sales resources if they so desire. By using the Timman AI software, banks and credit unions no longer need to invest in a variety of different systems, pay millions of dollars in system integration costs, upfront costs, implementation costs, seat licenses, or any of those sorts of things. Gone are the days of eight different software platforms sort of speaking to each other, stitched together by middleware, by consultants that charge hundreds of thousands of dollars just to integrate these systems, and with no unified data set for any type of machine learning to operate on. We are changing the industry altogether.

我們的 Timman AI 軟體本質上提供了一個盒子裡的抵押貸款，使銀行不僅可以使用我們的軟體，而且如果他們願意的話還可以獲得承保資源和銷售資源。透過使用 Timman AI 軟體，銀行和信用合作社不再需要投資各種不同的系統，支付數百萬美元的系統整合成本、前期成本、實施成本、座位許可證或任何此類費用。八個不同的軟體平台相互溝通、透過中間件連接在一起、由顧問收取數十萬美元來整合這些系統、並且沒有統一的數據集供任何類型的機器學習操作的時代已經一去不復返了。我們正在徹底改變這個產業。

What's more, our pricing model is fundamentally different. It is what is now coming to be in vogue amongst AI companies as outcome as a service. We are simply charging our customers on a funded loan basis so that their cost event for processing, fulfilling, underwriting, even selling a loan becomes directly tied to the revenue event and takes the risk out of the transaction for these partners, which is a massive differentiator to the traditional software pricing model in the mortgage industry and in financial services in general.

而且，我們的定價模式根本不同。這就是現在人工智慧公司中流行的「結果即服務」模式。我們只是根據貸款資金情況向客戶收費，這樣他們處理、履行、承保甚至出售貸款的成本事件就直接與收入事件掛鉤，並為這些合作夥伴消除交易風險，這與抵押貸款行業和一般金融服務中的傳統軟體定價模式有著巨大的區別。

We are pleased that our first bank partner on the Tinman AI software platform has begun funding loans on our platform. In this partnership, we are powering their entire mortgage platform from a software perspective, from click to close with their sales and operational personnel across the full range of products that they offer, including non-QM and other niche products entirely on Tinman.

我們很高興 Tinman AI 軟體平台上的第一個銀行合作夥伴已經開始在我們的平台上提供貸款。在此次合作中，我們從軟體角度為他們的整個抵押貸款平台提供支持，從點擊到關閉，與他們的銷售和運營人員一起提供他們提供的全部產品，包括完全在 Tinman 上的非 QM 和其他利基產品。

To get them up and running, not just for conforming FHA VA but also for niche non-QM products, took just under three months from LOI signing to loans flowing through our software. And we believe this can ramp to over $4 million a month in monthly revenue in the near medium term, based on the pipeline that we have. We believe an even larger addressable market exists within the mortgage ecosystem for a holistic one-stop software solution powered by the industry's leading AI engine, Tinman.

為了使它們啟動並運行，不僅針對符合 FHA VA 要求的產品，還針對利基非 QM 產品，從簽署 LOI 到貸款通過我們的軟體流動僅用了不到三個月的時間。我們相信，根據我們現有的管道，短期內每月收入可以增加到 400 萬美元以上。我們相信，在抵押貸款生態系統中，由業界領先的人工智慧引擎 Tinman 提供支援的整體一站式軟體解決方案存在更大的潛在市場。

To put the opportunity into context, over 5 million mortgages were built on the Encompass platform in 2024. To the extent that we can achieve even 1% penetration of the Encompass customer base based on our current pricing, we believe that could drive an incremental 50,000 new loans and $75 million of revenue at software margins to better per year.

具體來說，2024 年在 Encompass 平台上建立了超過 500 萬筆抵押貸款。我們相信，如果我們能夠以目前的定價實現 Encompass 客戶群 1% 的滲透率，那麼每年就能增加 50,000 筆新貸款，軟體利潤率也能提高 7,500 萬美元。

We have an extremely strong pipeline of partners who want to execute either their entry into the mortgage business or their growth in the mortgage business by leveraging the Tinman platform, which provides them the ability to scale nearly infinitely in terms of sales and underwriting without having to scale people, which is what the entire mortgage industry hurt from the bust that came in the period of 2022 to 2024.

我們擁有非常強大的合作夥伴管道，他們希望利用 Tinman 平台進入抵押貸款業務或實現抵押貸款業務的增長，該平台使他們能夠在銷售和承保方面幾乎無限地擴展規模，而無需擴大人員規模，而這正是整個抵押貸款行業在 2022 年至 2024 年期間的蕭條中受到的打擊。

Most mortgage CEOs do not want to repeat what they had to go through during that time. And thankfully, Betsy enables them to have nearly infinite scale featured parity with a traditional loan officer doing refinances and the ability to flex up or flex down their marketing spend to meet the balance sheet needs that they have. That is unique to the mortgage industry. It is unique within consumer lending, and we are bringing that power across the board to some of the largest financial services companies in the United States. And again, we are excited to share with you as these partnership discussions mature and we execute and launch with these partners.

大多數抵押貸款公司的執行長都不想重複那段時間所經歷的事情。值得慶幸的是，Betsy 使他們能夠擁有幾乎無限的規模，與進行再融資的傳統貸款人員具有同等的功能，並且能夠增加或減少他們的營銷支出，以滿足他們的資產負債表需求。這是抵押貸款行業獨有的。它在消費貸款領域是獨一無二的，我們正在將這種力量全面帶給美國一些最大的金融服務公司。再次，我們很高興與大家分享這些合作討論的成熟以及我們與這些合作夥伴一起執行和啟動的過程。

So to recap, while our D2C business has always been at the forefront of pushing the envelope of what technology can do in the mortgage industry at its core, we are making great advancements in substantially broadening the use of Tinman, which is like years ahead of the industry through diversification on both the Tinman AI as a platform for other mortgage originators and Tinman AI as a software service to solve the mortgage industry's broken tech stack.

總而言之，雖然我們的 D2C 業務一直處於突破技術在抵押貸款行業核心功能的最前沿，但我們在大幅擴大 Tinman 的使用方面也取得了巨大進步，透過將 Tinman AI 作為其他抵押貸款發起人的平台，並將 Tinman AI 作為解決抵押貸款行業技術堆疊問題的軟體服務，我們領先行業數年。

Looking ahead to the second half of 2025 and beyond, the opportunity ahead of us has never been more exciting. We remain focused on enhancing our go-to-market with growth being our North Star, alongside with continued expense management, channel diversification, all with the goal of getting to profitability on an adjusted EBITDA basis in the next 12 months. While we will continue to invest in building the leading AI platform in the mortgage industry, Tinman, to improve our customer experience and further drive down labor costs and make our platform more efficient and scalable, ultimately, the goal that we have is to now drive the business to profitability, and we hope to achieve that on an adjusted EBITDA basis within the next 12 months.

展望2025年下半年及以後，我們面臨的機會從未如此令人興奮。我們將繼續專注於加強市場開拓，以成長為北極星，同時持續進行費用管理、通路多元化，所有這一切都是為了在未來 12 個月內實現調整後 EBITDA 的獲利。雖然我們將繼續投資建造抵押貸款行業領先的人工智慧平台 Tinman，以改善我們的客戶體驗，進一步降低勞動力成本，使我們的平台更加高效和可擴展，但最終，我們的目標是推動業務盈利，我們希望在未來 12 個月內以調整後的 EBITDA 為基礎實現這一目標。

Let me now turn it over to Kevin Ryan, our Chief Financial Officer, who will discuss the quarterly performance and our financial strategy going forward. Kevin?

現在，我將把時間交給我們的財務長凱文·瑞安 (Kevin Ryan)，他將討論季度業績和我們未來的財務策略。凱文？

Thank you, Vishal. As we've discussed on prior calls, even with the continued challenging market environment and heightened macro volatility weighing on our industry, we continue to make great progress towards our goals of driving increased volume and revenue, balanced with ongoing expense management and improved efficiency. Our goal has been to reach profitability in the medium term. We now have the pathway and visibility to guide to adjusted EBITDA breakeven by Q3 2026, driven by volume growth in our direct-to-consumer and Tinman's platform channels, per loan contribution margin continuing to improve, the continued expansion of higher-margin channels, including Tinman AI platform and Tinman AI software, pricing improvements, and continued corporate and vendor cost reductions.

謝謝你，維沙爾。正如我們在先前的電話會議上所討論的那樣，即使市場環境持續充滿挑戰，宏觀波動加劇，給我們的行業帶來壓力，我們仍然在實現增加銷量和收入的目標方面取得了巨大進展，同時還持續管理費用並提高效率。我們的目標是在中期實現盈利。現在，我們擁有了到 2026 年第三季度實現調整後 EBITDA 收支平衡的途徑和可見性，這得益於我們直接面向消費者和 Tinman 平台渠道的銷量增長、每筆貸款貢獻利潤率的持續提高、利潤率更高的渠道的持續擴張（包括 Tinman AI 平台和 Tinman AI 軟件）、定價成本以及企業和供應商的持續擴張。

We would like to note that these growth opportunities come with varying levels of expansion and profitability profiles and will change based on the broader macroeconomic trajectory. As a result, our path to adjusted EBITDA breakeven is unlikely to be linear on a quarterly basis, and we do not anticipate the same level of burn reduction each and every quarter.

我們想指出的是，這些成長機會伴隨著不同程度的擴張和獲利狀況，並將根據更廣泛的宏觀經濟軌跡而變化。因此，我們調整後的 EBITDA 盈虧平衡路徑不太可能按季度呈線性增長，而且我們預計每季的燒錢減少程度也不會相同。

In the second quarter of 2025, on a year-over-year basis, we grew funded loan volume by 25% to approximately $1.2 billion and revenue by 37% to $44 million, driven by funding more loans to both our D2C and Tinman AI platform channels. We had an adjusted EBITDA loss of approximately $27 million. By channel, second-quarter funded loan volume was 64% generated through direct-to-consumer and 36% generated through Tinman AI platform, along with B2B. By product, funded loan volume was 67% purchase, 20% second lien, and 13% refinance.

2025 年第二季度，與去年同期相比，我們的貸款融資金額成長了 25%，達到約 12 億美元，營收成長了 37%，達到 4,400 萬美元，這得益於我們為 D2C 和 Tinman AI 平台管道提供的更多貸款。我們的調整後 EBITDA 損失約為 2700 萬美元。依通路劃分，第二季貸款發放量64%來自直接面向消費者的管道，36%來自Tinman AI平台以及B2B通路。按產品劃分，已融資貸款額為 67% 用於購買、20% 用於第二留置權、13% 用於再融資。

On a sequential quarter-over-quarter basis, Q2 funded loan volume was approximately up 39% and revenue was up approximately 36%. This revenue growth was driven by increased volume from NEO Powered by Better, which is higher gain on sale margins. Our continued push towards increased pricing and a tailwind from a loan loss reserve release. We expect to continue to drive growth through Tinman AI efficiencies, distribution channel diversification, and optimized marketing while balancing these growth expenses with further corporate and fixed vendor cost reductions.

與上一季相比，第二季貸款發放量成長約 39%，營收成長約 36%。收入成長的動力來自於 NEO Powered by Better 銷售的成長，這意味著銷售利潤率的提高。我們繼續推動提高價格，並藉助貸款損失準備金的釋放獲得推動。我們希望透過 Tinman AI 效率、分銷管道多樣化和優化行銷繼續推動成長，同時平衡這些成長費用與進一步降低企業和固定供應商成本。

Turning to expenses. During the quarter, total expenses decreased approximately 3% in Q2 compared to Q1. We continue building our Timman AI platform and Timman AI software channels, leaning into productivity-driven savings through AI deployment across the mortgage business and driving costs down further in our corporate functions. We are excited about using AI to drive the business towards growth and profitability, similar to the advances we experienced in 2016 to 2021, when we grew originations by over 100x.

談到費用。本季度，第二季度總支出與第一季相比下降了約 3%。我們繼續建立我們的 Timman AI 平台和 Timman AI 軟體管道，透過在抵押貸款業務中部署 AI 來實現生產力驅動的節約，並進一步降低公司職能的成本。我們很高興能夠利用人工智慧推動業務成長和獲利，類似於我們在 2016 年至 2021 年期間經歷的進步，當時我們的業務成長了 100 倍以上。

Now to touch briefly on our balance sheet and capital positioning. As we discussed on our last call, we closed a major debt restructuring with our partners at SoftBank in April. The accounting entries are a bit complicated and are laid out in the release. Big picture, we increased our GAAP equity by over $210 million, and we meaningfully reduced our corporate debt. We ended the second quarter of 2025 with $241 million of cash, restricted cash, short-term investments, and assets held for sale.

現在簡單談談我們的資產負債表和資本狀況。正如我們在上次電話會議上討論的那樣，我們在 4 月與軟銀的合作夥伴完成了一項重大債務重組。會計分錄有點複雜，在發布中列出。總體而言，我們的 GAAP 權益增加了 2.1 億美元以上，並且大幅減少了公司債務。截至 2025 年第二季度，我們擁有 2.41 億美元的現金、受限現金、短期投資和持有待售資產。

In addition, we continue to maintain strong relationships with our financing counterparties with three warehouse facilities for a total capacity of $575 million as of June 30, 2025. We are particularly excited that the Tinman AI platform loan volume is continuing to grow in line with forecast, and we expect over $500 million of AI platform originations in Q3, which is growth of over 16% versus Q2. For the full year of 2025, we expect funded loan volume to increase year-over-year, driven by tailwinds from growth initiatives, including Tinman AI platform, offset by continued macro pressure and the loss of our Ally business, a roughly $1 billion headwind.

此外，我們繼續與融資對手方保持良好的關係，截至 2025 年 6 月 30 日，我們擁有三個倉庫設施，總容量為 5.75 億美元。我們特別高興的是，Tinman AI 平台貸款量持續以預測成長，我們預計第三季 AI 平台貸款將超過 5 億美元，較第二季成長超過 16%。對於 2025 年全年而言，我們預計貸款發放量將同比增長，這得益於 Tinman AI 平台等增長計劃的推動，但持續的宏觀壓力和 Ally 業務的損失（約 10 億美元的逆風）將抵消這一影響。

In the UK, we were pleased that Birmingham Bank grew its loan book by 90% in the second quarter sequentially versus the first quarter of 2025. While we continue to undergo efforts to exit our noncore UK assets, we expect the divestitures of three smaller noncore UK businesses to start being a benefit to our adjusted EBITDA in the second half of 2025 as a result of the dispositions. We expect further improvements to our adjusted EBITDA losses in 2025 as compared to 2024 through a combination of AI-driven improvements in conversion rates, efficiency gains, and continued corporate cost reductions.

在英國，我們很高興看到伯明罕銀行第二季的貸款金額與 2025 年第一季相比成長了 90%。在我們繼續努力退出英國非核心資產的同時，我們預計，由於處置，三家規模較小的英國非核心業務的剝離將在 2025 年下半年開始對我們的調整後 EBITDA 產生好處。我們預計，透過人工智慧推動的轉換率提高、效率提升和持續的企業成本削減等措施，2025 年我們的調整後 EBITDA 損失將比 2024 年進一步改善。

With that, I'll now turn it back to the operator for Q&A.

現在，我將把時間交還給操作員進行問答。

(Operator Instructions) Bose George, KBW.

（操作員指示）Bose George，KBW。

Actually, when you talk about partners trying to enter the space using your technology, can you help characterize who they are? Are they financial companies who haven't figured out a way to offer the product effectively? Or just any color there would be great.

實際上，當您談到試圖利用您的技術進入該領域的合作夥伴時，您能否描述一下他們是誰？他們是否是尚未找到有效提供產品方法的金融公司？或任何顏色都很好。

Sure. I think there's -- like within the space, let me define a couple of different partners that are entering. You have the next-gen wealth management companies who want to continue to scale the ladder to compete with the UBS, Charles Schwabs of the world, right, and become full-scale wealth management platforms.

當然。我認為——就像在這個領域內，讓我定義幾個正在進入的不同合作夥伴。下一代財富管理公司希望繼續攀登高峰，與瑞銀、嘉信理財等公司競爭，成為全面的財富管理平台。

The one wealth product -- the one lending product every wealth management firm really needs is mortgage. And so we have partnered with one of the top 3 sort of robo-advisers investment firms and are beta testing a product. And we're seeing more and more incoming calls from folks like that who are -- have customer bases of anywhere between 1 million to 20 million customers who want to offer a mortgage or home equity product as an additional product to their wealth management offerings.

每個財富管理公司真正需要的財富產品－一種貸款產品就是抵押貸款。因此，我們與三大機器人顧問投資公司之一合作，並對產品進行 Beta 測試。我們看到越來越多的這類人士打來電話，他們的客戶群在 100 萬到 2000 萬之間，他們希望提供抵押貸款或房屋淨值產品作為財富管理產品的附加產品。

The second is your traditional fintech lenders. All the big fintech 1.0 lenders that have dominated personal installment loans, have dominated BNPL, now significant customer bases, again, between 1 million to 10 million customers on these platforms. Those folks are now trying to figure out how to get into home equity. And the traditional home equity software product or software platforms are really nonexistent because the home equity market pretty much died after the global financial crisis and has only come back to life in the past couple of years. And there are really very few white labelable third-party origination platforms that are seamless across the full stack from click to close on home equity, and particularly those that don't require you to deliver the loans specifically to one takeout, one securitization takeout.

第二個是傳統的金融科技貸款機構。所有主導個人分期貸款的大型金融科技 1.0 貸款機構都主導了 BNPL，現在這些平台上的客戶群相當龐大，達到 100 萬到 1000 萬之間。這些人現在正在想辦法獲得房屋淨值。傳統的房屋淨值軟體產品或軟體平台實際上並不存在，因為房屋淨值市場在全球金融危機後幾乎消亡，但在過去幾年才恢復生機。而且，真正能夠無縫銜接從點擊到房屋淨值交易的全端白標第三方發起平台非常少，特別是那些不需要您將貸款專門交付給一家外賣公司、一家證券化外賣公司的平台。

So there are two or three other platforms that are licensing their software, but they require you to deliver the loans to a particular takeout. They don't necessarily let you hold the loans on your own books, all these sorts of things, or the fees charged are pretty exorbitant. So we're getting a lot of influx on that on the home equity side from those fintechs.

因此，有兩三個其他平台正在授權他們的軟體，但他們要求你將貸款交給特定的外賣店。他們不一定會讓你把貸款記在自己的帳上，諸如此類的事情，或收取的費用相當高昂。因此，我們從這些金融科技公司獲得了大量房屋淨值資金的流入。

And then the third is just the mega fintechs, the ones with the 20 million-plus customers, right, who basically missed the mortgage boom in 2020 and 2021, now see rates coming down and are starting to see customers have demand. And a lot of those need a very scalable solution. A lot of them have implemented AI on their own side for their businesses and are looking for solutions that can kind of provide infinite scale should the rate environment change. And so we're talking to those as well.

第三類是大型金融科技公司，擁有 2000 多萬客戶，基本上錯過了 2020 年和 2021 年的抵押貸款熱潮，現在看到利率下降，並開始看到客戶有需求。其中許多都需要一個可擴展的解決方案。他們中的許多人已經在自己的​​業務中實施了人工智慧，並正在尋找能夠在利率環境變化時提供無限規模的解決方案。所以我們也在談論這些。

And we're in beta with some of them. We've launched partnerships with some of them. And as those scale, we're really excited to talk to you more about them as they become a material source of our revenues.

其中一些我們還處於測試階段。我們已經與其中一些公司建立了合作夥伴關係。隨著這些規模的擴大，我們非常高興與您進一步討論它們，因為它們已成為我們收入的重要來源。

Okay, that's helpful. Thanks. And then when you talk about, Kevin, the cost to originate at the industry average and declining, how much volume do you need broadly on the overhead side just to have that benefit really kind of drop to the bottom line more meaningfully?

好的，這很有幫助。謝謝。然後，凱文，當你談到以行業平均水平為起點並不斷下降的成本時，你需要在間接費用方面大致進行多少交易才能使這種收益真正更有意義地下降到底線？

I think it already is. I mean if you look at page 18 on our deck with respect to unit economics, where we are on D2C, right? I think D2C suffers from a high CAC and the way that CAC gets accounted for, particularly in terms of purchase loans, right, because CAC is sort of in period, but the loans take six to nine months to make. But you can look at the labor cost per fund in Q2 2025 on D2C is under $2,500, and that compares pretty favorably to the industry's $6,500 to $7,000 of labor cost to fund. And our data cost per fund continue to come down as the conversion rate keeps going up.

我認為已經如此了。我的意思是，如果你看一下我們簡報中關於單位經濟學的第 18 頁，我們在 D2C 方面處於什麼位置，對嗎？我認為 D2C 的弊端在於 CAC 過高，而且 CAC 的計算方式也存在問題，尤其是在購買貸款方面，因為 CAC 有一定的周期性，但貸款的發放需要 6 到 9 個月的時間。但您可以看到，2025 年第二季 D2C 上每隻基金的勞動力成本低於 2,500 美元，與行業 6,500 至 7,000 美元的勞動力成本相比相當有利。隨著轉換率不斷上升，我們每筆基金的數據成本持續下降。

A lot of the time, we are pulling data on consumers, giving them a preapproval, getting credit income asset data that we're paying for, but they're not converting. So as we improve the conversion rate, we talked about in the call that we improved the conversion rate by almost 30% because of Betsy from the quarter. And you can see just right there, data cost per fund have gone down from $1,200 to $800. And we see room for that to continue to come down, both via economies of scale and continued improvement in when and how we pull the requisite data for the consumer.

很多時候，我們會收集消費者的數據，給他們預先批准，取得我們付費的信用收入資產數據，但他們並沒有轉換。因此，隨著我們提高轉換率，我們在電話會議中談到，由於本季度 Betsy 的作用，我們將轉換率提高了近 30%。您可以看到，每個基金的數據成本已從 1,200 美元降至 800 美元。我們認為這一數字還有繼續下降的空間，這既可以透過規模經濟來實現，也可以透過持續改進何時以及如何為消費者獲取必要的數據來實現。

And then lastly, the gain on sale revenue has improved by almost 10% just quarter-on-quarter, again, being more responsive to customers, meeting them where they are, when they want to communicate with us has enabled us to have a less of a discount in terms of our product offering and improve our gain on sale on average. And so that's been beneficial.

最後，銷售收入收益比上一季提高了近 10%，同樣，我們對客戶的回應更加迅速，在客戶希望與我們溝通時隨時隨地與他們溝通，這使我們能夠在產品供應方面減少折扣，從而平均提高銷售收入。所以這是有益的。

I think we -- just on the D2C, if we were just the D2C business alone, I think we'd have to double or triple the business to get to sort of breakeven based on where we are on contribution margin and where the burn is coming down to on a monthly basis. But with the B2B platform business, the Tinman AI platform business, the margins are a lot bigger, almost double or triple those of the D2C business. And there, we just need to kind of grow those and the volume to grow to similar amounts as what we're getting in D2C to achieve that breakeven, which is why I think for the first time in four years, we have transparency and dramatic line of sight into how to get to breakeven.

我認為我們——僅在 D2C 方面，如果我們只是單獨從事 D2C 業務，我認為我們必須將業務規模增加一倍或兩倍才能達到收支平衡，這取決於我們的貢獻利潤率以及每月的消耗情況。但B2B平台業務，Tinman AI平台業務，利潤率大得多，幾乎是D2C業務的兩倍或三倍。在那裡，我們只需要將這些和數量增長到與 D2C 類似的水平，以實現收支平衡，這就是為什麼我認為四年來我們第一次對如何實現收支平衡有了透明度和清晰的認識。

Brendan McCarthy. You may go ahead.

布倫丹·麥卡錫。你可以繼續。

Great, good morning everyone. Thanks for taking my questions here. Just wanted to start off on the lead-to-lock conversion rate with Betsy. You mentioned that increased meaningfully. I guess what's really driven that? And what are some of the dynamics behind customer interaction to really lead that improvement?

太好了，大家早安。感謝您在這裡回答我的問題。只是想和 Betsy 一起開始討論潛在客戶到鎖定客戶的轉換率。您提到這顯著增加了。我猜真正導致這種情況的原因是什麼？那麼，客戶互動背後有哪些動力能夠真正推動這種改進呢？

The biggest thing is expanded functionality by Betsy was going previously answering questions, getting missing data. Betsy is now able to take you all the way through lock and then even go and ask questions around processing, ask you about missing documentation. On the back end, Betsy is re-underwriting all the loans that the underwriters are doing, where they might have to suspend a loan or deny a loan post-lock. And so it's substantially improving the choices that consumers are getting and the intelligent workarounds with the variety of investors on our marketplace. So that's all driving greater efficiency.

最重要的是，Betsy 擴展了先前回答問題和獲取缺失資料的功能。貝琪現在可以帶您全程通過鎖，然後甚至詢問有關處理的問題，詢問您是否缺少文件。在後端，Betsy 正在重新承銷承銷商所做的所有貸款，他們可能必須暫停貸款或在鎖定後拒絕貸款。因此，它極大地改善了消費者的選擇，並為我們市場上的各種投資者提供了智慧的解決方案。這一切都是為了提高效率。

We're getting -- we're approving a larger percentage of our customers. We're finding solutions for them instantly, like, for instance, a consumer -- just as an example, a consumer is coming in and their debt-to-income ratio doesn't qualify them to get preapproved for a mortgage or for a refinance. But there's two debts there that they came in for a rate term refi, but there's two debts that if they also took out a little bit of cash, they could pay off, and then their DTI would qualify.

我們正在獲得—我們正在批准更大比例的客戶。我們正在立即為他們找到解決方案，例如，一位消費者——僅舉一個例子，一位消費者進來，他們的債務收入比不符合獲得抵押貸款或再融資預先批准的資格。但是，有兩筆債務是他們透過利率期限再融資獲得的，但是，如果他們也拿出一點現金，他們就可以償還這兩筆債務，然後他們的 DTI 就符合資格了。

Traditionally, for a human loan officer to make all those calculations is quite difficult. They're trained on sales, not on math. But Betsy is able to effectively instantly do that in our flow, and that's saving a pretty significant number of people and qualifying these people in a way that other loan officers and certainly other loan platforms simply don't do.

傳統上，對於人類貸款員來說，進行所有這些計算是相當困難的。他們接受的是銷售培訓，而不是數學培訓。但 Betsy 能夠在我們的流程中立即有效地做到這一點，這為相當多的人節省了開支，並以其他貸款人員和其他貸款平台根本無法做到的方式對這些人進行資格審查。

A lot of this that we're doing actually is really interesting because we're learning from our retail loan officers, what are the things that make them more successful and able to both command a premium pricing in the market and effectively help more customers. And those same things that our retail loan officers are teaching us, we're now embedding into both our D2C workforce, but more importantly, into Betsy to help Betsy learn that functionality and do it for the consumer instantly.

我們所做的很多事情實際上非常有趣，因為我們正在從零售貸款人員那裡學習，了解哪些因素使他們更加成功，能夠在市場上獲得溢價並有效地幫助更多客戶。我們的零售貸款人員正在教給我們的那些東西，現在我們正在將其融入到我們的 D2C 員工隊伍中，但更重要的是，融入到 Betsy 中，以幫助 Betsy 學習該功能並立即為消費者提供服務。

That's great. I appreciate the insight there, Vishal. And turning to the B2B side, specifically Tinman AI as a software. Can you talk about that pipeline there? I know we had -- I know you had mentioned there was a small to medium-sized bank in the pipeline that may have been more near-term for a potential partnership. Any updates on that front?

那太棒了。我很欣賞你的見解，Vishal。轉向 B2B 方面，具體來說，Tinman AI 是一款軟體。你能談談那條管道嗎？我知道我們—我知道您曾提過，有一家中小型銀行正在籌備中，可能更適合近期建立合作關係。這方面有什麼新進展嗎？

Yeah, we're pumping loans through that. It's really awesome. They're about $1 billion-sized bank in the mortgage business, and they're fully adopted. And we've been able to get them up and running in a way on a new software platform in mortgages, which typically takes nine months and millions of dollars of consultants and integration costs, and they're up and running in less than 90 days.

是的，我們正在透過這種方式發放貸款。真是太棒了。他們是一家經營抵押貸款業務、資產規模約 10 億美元的銀行，並且已經全面採用了這項技術。我們已經能夠讓它們在抵押貸款的新軟體平台上啟動並運行，這通常需要九個月的時間和數百萬美元的顧問和整合成本，但它們可以在不到 90 天的時間內啟動並運行。

And as the volume that they pump through their pipes grows, we think that, that can be a pretty significant revenue stream for us.

隨著他們透過管道輸送的水量不斷增長，我們認為，這對我們來說可能是一個相當大的收入來源。

We have a couple of other big partners in the pipeline, one of the top 10 mortgage companies in America. We -- many of the big fintechs that I mentioned earlier on a question on the call. And so we're super pumped about that software business and about empowering other mortgage companies or those in the fintech landscape to effectively use the software to originate loans in a way that's superior to the traditional sort of eight different systems stack that most people have today.

我們還有其他幾家大型合作夥伴正在籌備中，其中包括美國十大抵押貸款公司之一。我們—我在電話會議中提到的許多大型金融科技公司。因此，我們對軟體業務非常熱衷，並希望能夠幫助其他抵押貸款公司或金融科技領域的公司有效地使用該軟體發放貸款，這種方式比大多數人目前使用的傳統八種不同系統堆疊要好得多。

Rayna Kumar, Oppenheimer.

雷娜‧庫馬爾 (Rayna Kumar)，奧本海默。

Hi, good morning. This is Abigail Rudder on for Rayna. It sounds like the testing you guys mentioned is working pretty well. Could you guys provide any additional color here to expand on this opportunity? And then how do you expect it to work through the cycle?

嗨，早安。這是 Abigail Rudder 為 Rayna 表演的。聽起來你們提到的測驗效果很好。你們能否提供任何額外的資訊來擴大這個機會？那麼您希望它如何在整個週期中發揮作用？

Well, we expect it to be the software business to be a much higher margin business than even the platform business, which is a 40% margin business. I mean, we've spent $1 billion developing the software. The biggest players in the market have pretty significant or effectively monopolistic and have very significant chunky market share and started their lives out as Fay disk-based software. The biggest player in the market today still allows only one person to be in the loan file at a time. I mean, not pre-judgmentally, but what is the AI agent going to do?

嗯，我們預計軟體業務的利潤率將比平台業務高得多，平台業務的利潤率為 40%。我的意思是，我們已經花了 10 億美元來開發該軟體。市場上最大的參與者擁有相當大的或有效的壟斷地位，並擁有非常大的市場份額，他們以基於 Fay 磁碟的軟體開始自己的職業生涯。如今，市場上最大的參與者仍然只允許一個人同時進入貸款檔案。我的意思是，不是預先判斷，而是人工智慧代理將要做什麼？

She's going to ask the loan processor to check out of the file, like it's a library book, and so that it can go in and make an entry or change of fact. It just -- I think it's just open hunting season on that front. We've hired -- made some recent hires to build that business out. And you'll hear from us in the very near future about some major contracts getting signed, implemented. And once they're up and running, we'll be able to talk about them.

她將要求貸款處理員檢查該文件，就像檢查圖書館的書一樣，以便可以進入並進行輸入或更改事實。這只是——我認為從那方面來說這只是開放狩獵季節。我們最近招募了一些人員來拓展這項業務。您很快就會聽到我們關於一些重要合約簽署和實施的消息。一旦它們啟動並運行，我們就可以談論它們。

With respect to the potential size because of the fundamental difference in our model, where we're providing one full-stack solution, people will adopt it, and then they'll adopt it for 100% of their production. Initially, they'll use it parallel path with the existing incumbent solutions that are out there. They'll start with home equity, HELOCs, then they'll migrate more of the products over.

就潛在規模而言，由於我們的模型存在根本差異，我們提供一個全端解決方案，人們會採用它，然後他們會在 100% 的生產中採用它。最初，他們將採取與現有的解決方案並行的路徑。他們將從房屋淨值、房屋淨值信貸額度 (HELOC) 開始，然後將更多的產品轉移過來。

And we're going through that entire process and defining the full value chain and the extractions. And yes, like I think if you look for us on social media, if you look for us on like LinkedIn, you'll see some of the advances that are coming out regularly in the software and with the partners that we're implementing the software for.

我們正在經歷整個過程並定義完整的價值鏈和提取。是的，我想如果你在社群媒體上尋找我們，如果你在 LinkedIn 上尋找我們，你會看到軟體中以及我們為其實施軟體的合作夥伴中定期出現的一些進步。

Perfect. Thank you so much. And then can you just talk a little bit more about the home equity business and that volume? And just any more color on kind of what drove or is driving that growth?

完美的。太感謝了。那麼您能否再多談談房屋淨值業務和交易量？能再詳細說明一下推動這種成長的因素嗎？

Sure. I mean we've had about -- from year to year, from Q2 '24, we did $90 million of home equity volume in Q2 '25, we did $240 million. That's 260% growth. I think we are the fastest-growing home equity lender in America today.

當然。我的意思是，從 2024 年第二季開始，我們的房屋淨值交易量為 9,000 萬美元，到 2025 年第二季度，我們的房屋淨值交易量已達 2.4 億美元。這是260%的成長。我認為我們是當今美國成長最快的房屋淨值貸款機構。

And home equity has a lot of the same features that made us great in refi, like helped us grow from $500 million in refi volume in 2016 to $58 billion in 2021 in five years, 100x growth and which is that it's us and the consumer, we're able to provide the things that we do better than anyone else, make the process cheaper, faster, easier and do it in a marketplace fashion rather than in a delivering into a securitization shelf fashion, which means that we are able to deliver to multiple different investors and provide consumers the highest chance of getting approved, and that's allowed us to maximize our D2C margins and D2C dollars.

房屋淨值具有許多使我們在再融資方面表現出色的相同特徵，例如幫助我們在五年內將再融資額從 2016 年的 5 億美元增長到 2021 年的 580 億美元，增長了 100倍，而這正是我們和消費者能夠提供比任何人都做得更好的東西，使流程更便宜、更快、更容易，並且以市場方式進行，而不是以證券化貨架的方式交付，這意味著我們能夠向多個不同的投資者提供服務，並為消費者提供獲得批准的最高機會，這使我們能夠最大化我們的 D2C 利潤和 D2C 美元。

So if you have originator X and they've got a pretty narrow criteria, they're delivering to a securitization shelf, they're constrained by the rating agencies. That's harder for them to change. And so then they buy a click online, they've got a chance of converting that click X percent. Similarly, if a mortgage broker refers a customer to originator X, then they've got a low chance of getting approved.

因此，如果你有發起人 X，而且他們的標準非常狹窄，那麼他們就會將債券交付給證券化機構，並受到評級機構的限制。對他們來說，改變這一點更加困難。然後他們在線購買點擊，他們就有機會將該點擊轉化為 X%。同樣，如果抵押貸款經紀人將客戶介紹給發起人 X，那麼他們獲得批准的機會就很低。

Now if that same click online can convert at a better rate -- at a better approval rate, with better because we've got a marketplace at the back end, that makes our ability to grow on the D2C channel pretty substantial. Again, like we're at a $1 billion run rate on HELOC and home equity origination, and we started this product less than two years ago. And we're scaling that so fast, right?

現在，如果同樣的線上點擊能夠以更好的速度轉換——以更好的批准率，因為我們在後端有一個市場，這使得我們在 D2C 頻道上成長的能力相當可觀。再說一次，我們在 HELOC 和房屋淨值發起方面的運作率為 10 億美元，而且我們推出這款產品還不到兩年。而且我們的擴展速度非常快，對吧？

Last quarter, we were 148. So we've grown 35% plus on quarter-on-quarter on that product. So we're just -- we think that the market is massive, and it's got a lot of the features of the product are the things that we're really good at Better here.

上個季度，我們的人數是 148 人。因此，該產品的季度環比增長超過 35%。所以我們只是——我們認為市場是巨大的，並且它擁有許多產品的功能，而這些功能正是我們真正擅長的。

Yeah. And I'll add that the consumer acceptance of the product is way up. It slowed down after the crisis, as Vishal mentioned before. But mortgage rates have stayed high, home appreciation since COVID has been very high. So that $1 billion can get to $2 billion quite easily. We're just going to keep pushing in that product because we think the consumer -- it can really help the consumer out this part of the cycle.

是的。我還要補充一點，消費者對該產品的接受度大幅提高。正如 Vishal 之前提到的，危機過後，成長速度放緩。但抵押貸款利率一直居高不下，自新冠疫情以來，房屋升值幅度一直很高。因此，10 億美元可以輕易達到 20 億美元。我們將繼續推廣該產品，因為我們認為消費者——它確實可以幫助消費者走出這個週期。

And also every HELOC, every home equity customer that we're booking today is a refi tomorrow when rates come down eventually. It's a zero customer acquisition cost refi. And as you can see, on D2C customer acquisition cost is 45% to 50% of revenue for us. So when we take that out, as rates come back down, each one of these HELOC customers, we're going to be putting them into a cash-out refi or rate to refi, and that's going to cost us $0 in customer acquisition cost. So again, just onboarding consumers onto the better platform, warming them up for the refis that come.

而且，我們今天預約的每一位 HELOC 和每一位房屋淨值客戶，在利率最終下降後，明天都會再融資。這是零客戶獲取成本的再融資。正如您所看到的，D2C 客戶獲取成本占我們收入的 45% 到 50%。因此，當我們將其取出時，隨著利率回落，我們將為每個 HELOC 客戶提供現金再融資或利率再融資，這將使我們的客戶獲取成本為 0 美元。所以，再次強調，只是將消費者引入更好的平台，讓他們為即將到來的再融資做好準備。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

BTIG 的 Eric Hagen。

Hey, thanks so much. Good morning. Can you talk about how the software maybe adjusts for or tailors around fluctuations in interest rates? Can the AI get smart about capital markets conditions to get ahead of the market, if you will? Like we all know that mortgage banks can be slow to respond to shifts in interest rates, but does the AI help augment the speed at which consumers are shown a rate based on what's going on in the market?

嘿，非常感謝。早安.您能談談該軟體如何根據利率波動進行調整或客製化嗎？如果您願意的話，人工智慧能否了解資本市場狀況以領先市場？眾所周知，抵押貸款銀行對利率變化的反應可能很慢，但人工智慧是否有助於提高根據市場情況向消費者顯示利率的速度？

Yeah, it makes it instant. It's now starting to write the alerts that go out to the consumers. It's enabling us to enter into features that will make trading interest rates or trading mortgages very similar to trading equities. And it's able to just manifest the best execution and reprice our products in a singularly faster fashion. So your traditional bank might take a while to update the rates on their site or through their distribution channels.

是的，它可以立即生效。現在它開始編寫向消費者發出的警報。它使我們能夠實現使利率交易或抵押貸款交易與股票交易非常相似的功能。它能夠反映最佳執行效果，並以更快的方式重新定價我們的產品。因此，傳統銀行可能需要一段時間才能在其網站上或透過其分銷管道更新利率。

Usually, mortgage bankers get daily rate sheets or best X. The AI doesn't need to do a rate sheet; the AI can go across all the permutations across all 45 investors across thousands of products instantly and find the best one that matches the consumer, fits their needs, and provide that range of options to them.

通常，抵押貸款銀行家會獲得每日利率表或最佳 X。人工智慧不需要製作利率表；人工智慧可以立即查看所有 45 位投資者對數千種產品的所有排列組合，並找到最適合消費者、滿足他們需求的產品，並為他們提供一系列選擇。

It's a true game-changer. I think it's extremely underappreciated in this market where the price of credit continuously changes. And it's going to -- you're going to see sort of a Robinhood moment in this business in the same way that you saw it in equities.

這確實是一個改變遊戲規則的事件。我認為，在這個信貸價格不斷變化的市場中，它被嚴重低估了。而且，你將會在這個行業中看到羅賓漢時刻，就像你在股票市場中看到的那樣。

Yeah, that's really interesting. A follow-up on the conversion rate. I mean, can you share more specifics on how the Tinman platform helps retain the borrowers' attention and get it from the point of lead generation to the next phase? Like we know the platform is really good at lead gen, but how does it kind of systematically support a that stronger conversion rate, especially with the different entities that are using the platform?

是的，這真的很有趣。對轉換率進行跟進。我的意思是，您能否分享更多有關 Tinman 平台如何幫助留住借款人的注意力並將其從潛在客戶生成階段帶入下一階段的細節？我們知道該平台在潛在客戶生成方面確實很出色，但它如何系統地支援更高的轉換率，尤其是對於使用該平台的不同實體而言？

Sure. So the Tinman platform has traditionally been really great at serving consumers that are -- have great credit, have good income, are comfortable with doing major financial decisions online, right? So like while the TAM in mortgage is huge, the TAM of consumers who are comfortable doing these things entirely online self-driven has always been smaller. And so what we've been continuously trying to do over this period of time is wherever that human assistance is needed instantly, to staff up for that with people is extremely expensive, right? Like someone would, for instance, say, abandon their application somewhere during the flow, right?

當然。所以，Tinman 平台傳統上一直非常擅長為那些信用良好、收入良好、願意在網路上做出重大財務決策的消費者提供服務，對嗎？因此，雖然抵押貸款的 TAM 很大，但願意完全在線上自主完成這些事情的消費者的 TAM 一直較小。因此，這段時間我們一直在努力做的是，無論在哪裡，只要需要立即提供人力援助，那麼配備人員的成本就非常高，對嗎？比如說，有人會在流程的某個階段放棄他們的申請，對嗎？

Now we could build -- we've built triggers that enable us to know that this person abandon the application. But because all the labor in the industry, like the loan officers, all the salespeople, they all have to be licensed and then those licenses are on a state-by-state basis, unless you've got tens of thousands of people sitting around waiting for these triggers to happen, like and paying them on payroll, it's really hard with our low-cost D2C model to reach the consumer at the point of decision or reach the consumer at the point of indecision or fatigue or confusion. And now we're able to do that instantly and have an outbound call done by Betsy.

現在我們可以建造——我們已經建立了觸發器，讓我們知道這個人放棄了申請。但因為行業中的所有勞動力，例如貸款人員、所有銷售人員，都必須獲得許可，而這些許可是按州發放的，除非你有成千上萬的人坐在那裡等待這些觸發事件發生，並在工資單上支付他們，否則我們的低成本 D2C 模式很難在消費者做出決定時或在消費者猶豫不決、疲勞或困惑時接觸到他們。現在我們可以立即做到這一點，並讓 Betsy 撥打外撥電話。

As you can see, the interactions with Betsy have scaled up massively over the past three or four months, as it's just gotten better and better and better and gotten plugged more and more and more. It's almost organic now between Betsy and Tinman. And so it sort of is becoming one system with Tinman being sort of the calculation engine and matching engine, and Betsy being the support to the human, but in a lot of places, like the supplanting of the human, where the human is simply unavailable.

如您所見，在過去的三、四個月裡，與 Betsy 的互動大幅增加，因為它變得越來越好，並且越來越受歡迎。現在 Betsy 和 Tinman 之間的關係幾乎是自然而然的。因此，它逐漸形成一個系統，其中 Tinman 是計算引擎和匹配引擎，而 Betsy 是人類的支持，但在許多地方，例如取代人類，人類根本無法發揮作用。

And I think that that's really enabled us to continue to grow. I mean, like we grew unit volume 35% in the last quarter, and we subtracted people on the sales team.

我認為這確實使我們能夠繼續成長。我的意思是，上個季度我們的銷售量成長了 35%，但我們卻減少了銷售團隊的人員。

That concludes today's question-and-answer session. I will now turn the conference back over to Vishal Garg, CEO and Founder of Better Home & Finance Holding Company, for closing remarks.

今天的問答環節到此結束。現在，我將會議交還給 Better Home & Finance Holding Company 執行長兼創辦人 Vishal Garg 致閉幕詞。

Thank you all for continuing to support us as we build America's leading AI mortgage platform and in doing so, help consumers get a better mortgage, a better rate, and a better process, leading to both improving their financial stability and living a better life for them and their families. The past five years have been extremely challenging for us given the state of the market, interest rates, but now we're playing offense hard again, aggressively pursuing growth, monetizing the platform that we've built and the AI we've developed on top of it, and doing so independent of the broader economic and mortgage market conditions.

感謝大家繼續支持我們打造美國領先的人工智慧抵押貸款平台，並在此過程中幫助消費者獲得更好的抵押貸款、更好的利率和更好的流程，從而提高他們的財務穩定性並讓他們及其家人過上更好的生活。考慮到市場狀況和利率，過去五年對我們來說極具挑戰性，但現在我們再次發起進攻，積極追求增長，將我們構建的平台和在此基礎上開發的人工智能貨幣化，並且不受更廣泛的經濟和抵押貸款市場狀況的影響。

We now have clear line of sight in how we win in the current environment with our advances in our Tinman AI platform and our Tinman AI software business and the improvement in unit economics, all together contributing to allowing us to clearly tell you today that we're going to be able to be breakeven as a business on an adjusted EBITDA basis in the next 12 months.

現在，憑藉我們在 Tinman AI 平台和 Tinman AI 軟體業務方面的進步以及單位經濟效益的改善，我們對如何在當前環境中取勝有了清晰的認識，所有這些都使我們能夠今天清楚地告訴您，我們將能夠在未來 12 個月內按調整後的 EBITDA 實現收支平衡。

I think that's the focus that you all should take away from this call. We now have a path out of a really terrible environment, and we have nearly infinite scale if the interest rate environment changes. Thank you for all your support. Thank you for staying with us, and we look forward to sharing a lot more good news with you over the coming year ahead.

我認為這是大家在這通通話中應該要注意的重點。我們現在找到了擺脫糟糕環境的途徑，如果利率環境發生變化，我們的規模幾乎是無限的。感謝大家的支持。感謝您的支持，我們期待在未來的一年與您分享更多好消息。

This concludes today's conference. You may disconnect.

今天的會議到此結束。您可以斷開連線。