Better Home & Finance Holding Co (BETR) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

(technical difficulty)

（技術難度）

A nonal margin improvement from 1.58% in Q3 last year to 2.08% in Q3. This year. As discussed on our last earnings call, I'd like to remind everyone of our strategic priorities for 2024. Our first priority is thoughtfully leaning into growth against which we showed continued progress. This quarter year over year funded loan volume growth was driven by increases across all three of our product categories. Purchase refi and home equity loans with home equity products and refinance loans being the largest growth drivers. This past quarter, purchase loan volume increased 13%. Home equity loan volume increased 493%. And refinance loan volume increased 177% year over year. Even with some of the temporary rate relief we saw in Q3, this quarter closed a 30 year fixed mortgage rate to well above 7%. Putting continued strain on our customers facing high cost of living and affordability issues. Our home equity products enable them to access the equity in their homes even if refinancing their existing mortgage in the current rate environment is not economic We continue to embrace the opportunity to grow our experienced loan officer footprint, add additional marketing and brand advertising channels to our D TWO C business as well as launch new products and services such as the streamlined refinance product for FH and VA borrowers that we rolled out last week to ensure we are well positioned as consumer demand returns to capture increased market share.

非利潤率從去年第三季的 1.58% 提高到第三季的 2.08%。今年。正如我們在上次財報電話會議上所討論的那樣，我想提醒大家我們 2024 年的戰略重點。我們的首要任務是深思熟慮地致力於成長，並在此基礎上不斷取得進展。本季融資貸款量的年增率是由我們所有三個產品類別的成長所推動的。購買再融資和房屋淨值貸款，其中房屋淨值產品和再融資貸款是最大的成長動力。上個季度，購屋貸款量增加了 13%。房屋淨值貸款量增加 493%。再融資貸款量較去年同期成長177%。即使我們在第三季看到了一些臨時利率下調，本季 30 年期固定抵押貸款利率仍遠高於 7%。面臨高生活成本和負擔能力問題的客戶持續承受壓力。我們的房屋淨值產品使他們能夠獲得房屋淨值，即使在當前利率環境下為現有抵押貸款再融資並不經濟。借款人的簡化再融資產品，以確保我們在消費者需求回升時處於有利地位，以佔領更大的市場份額。

Our second priority is improving operational efficiency and further variabilizing loan production expenses and maximizing operating efficiency. During the highly challenging macro environment. In the third quarter, total expenses increased approximately $9.5 million quarter on quarter. As we continued leaning into certain growth expenses such as marketing loan origination expenses and compensation for larger loan production teams to produce higher volumes as well as the absence of certain non-recurring expense benefits taken last quarter. Specifically, our third quarter, marketing and advertising expenses increase from $9 million in Q2 to $12 million in Q3, we continue to evaluate the return on each incremental dollar of marketing spend and expect this spend to slow as we go into a seasonally slower period in the market and become more efficient in our marketing strategies.

我們的第二個優先事項是提高營運效率，進一步降低貸款生產費用並最大限度地提高營運效率。在充滿挑戰的宏觀環境下。第三季總支出較上季增加約 950 萬美元。由於我們繼續傾向於某些成長費用，例如行銷貸款發放費用和對較大貸款生產團隊的補償，以產生更高的產量，以及缺乏上季度取得的某些非經常性費用收益。具體來說，我們第三季的行銷和廣告費用從第二季的900 萬美元增加到第三季的1,200 萬美元，我們將繼續評估每增加一美元行銷支出的回報，並預計隨著我們進入在季節性放緩時期，這一支出將會放緩。

These growth expenses were partially offset by lower general and administrative expenses and lower corporate compensation expenses.

這些增長費用被較低的一般和管理費用以及較低的企業薪酬費用部分抵消。

While our loan production team compensation increased in the third quarter because of increased funds and loan officer hiring, we still believe we are significantly more efficient than the industry average as it relates to production cost based on our learning through industry benchmarking exercises. We believe the average cost to sell and process a mortgage in the United States is nearly $9000 per loan. Utilizing Tman capabilities. We have been able to automate time and labor intensive components of the mortgage process and reduce that cost by over 35% of the industry average. We believe our continued investments in technology will significantly drive down our costs further resulting in improved operating efficiency and superior customer experience. As a follow up from our discussion last quarter, around our investments into A I, we are thrilled to announce the launch of Betsy, the first voice based A I loan assistant for the US mortgage industry. Betsy is our latest innovation built through Tman, the company's proprietary loan origination platform to enhance the operational efficiency of our loan teams and to improve customer experience by accurately and instantly answering detailed questions and efficiently assisting with outstanding tasks. With the goal of enabling faster service times, enhanced self service capabilities, improved customer engagement and greater sales efficiency. Betsy allows loan officers to focus their time on discussing interest rate details with customers and other more complex license activity. Instead of gathering data or performing basic verification tasks, she leverages A I and large language models to accelerate a customer's entire mortgage journey from preapproval start to close loan and is programmed to verbally communicate with customers to answer, mortgage application inquiries and to collect and verify outstanding application data.

儘管由於資金增加和信貸員招聘，我們的貸款生產團隊薪酬在第三季度有所增加，但我們仍然相信，我們的效率明顯高於行業平均水平，因為根據我們通過行業基準測試的了解，這與生產成本有關。我們認為，在美國出售和處理抵押貸款的平均成本約為每筆貸款 9,000 美元。利用 Tman 功能。我們已經能夠實現抵押貸款流程中時間和勞動力密集部分的自動化，並將成本降低至行業平均值的 35% 以上。我們相信，我們對技術的持續投資將進一步顯著降低我們的成本，從而提高營運效率和卓越的客戶體驗。作為上季度討論的後續內容，圍繞我們對 A I 的投資，我們很高興地宣布推出 Betsy，這是美國抵押貸款行業第一個基於語音的 A I 貸款助理。Betsy 是我們透過公司專有的貸款發放平台 Tman 打造的最新創新產品，旨在透過準確、即時地回答詳細問題和高效協助完成未完成的任務來提高我們貸款團隊的營運效率並改善客戶體驗。目標是實現更快的服務時間、增強的自助服務能力、提高的客戶參與度和更高的銷售效率。Betsy 讓信貸員能夠將時間集中在與客戶討論利率細節以及其他更複雜的授權活動上。她不是收集數據或執行基本的驗證任務，而是利用人工智慧和大型語言模型來加速客戶從預先批准開始到結束貸款的整個抵押貸款流程，並透過程式設計與客戶進行口頭溝通，回答抵押貸款申請查詢並收集和驗證未償還的貸款。

Because Tin Man's centralized and context rich data environment is organized in a hierarchical tree like structure. It can easily be understood by LMS like Betsy.

因為鐵皮人的集中式且上下文豐富的資料環境是以分層樹狀結構組織的。像 Betsy 一樣可以透過 LMS 輕鬆理解它。

This contrasts with traditional mortgage industry software where information is spread across multiple fragmented systems and data sets such as the point of sale system, the CRM system, the loan origination system, the document management system and the pricing engine.

這與傳統抵押貸款行業軟體形成鮮明對比，在傳統抵押貸款行業軟體中，資訊分佈在多個分散的系統和資料集中，例如銷售點系統、CRM 系統、貸款發放系統、文件管理系統和定價引擎。

We believe that Betsy will help catalyze our growth over the coming years and we are only beginning to witness how A I will disrupt the traditional mortgage industry. And our technology is setting the standard in delivering maximum value savings and service to American homeowners. We are excited to show you today a demonstration of how Betsy can interact with a customer on a call. And we'll play this clip to help illustrate the power of this technology. ( video playing)

我們相信 Betsy 將有助於促進我們未來幾年的成長，而我們才剛開始見證 A I 將如何顛覆傳統抵押貸款行業。我們的技術正在為美國房主提供最大的價值節省和服務樹立標準。今天，我們很高興向您展示 Betsy 如何在通話中與客戶互動的簡報。我們將播放這段影片來幫助說明這項技術的力量。（影片播放）

We are super excited about what Betsy can become in the future as we further integrate Betsy into Tinman and help consumers along even greater portions of their application through the entire mortgage process.

我們對 Betsy 未來的發展感到非常興奮，因為我們進一步將 Betsy 整合到 Tinman 中，並幫助消費者在整個抵押貸款流程中完成更大部分的申請。

Finishing with our third priority of diversifying our distribution channels through growing our B two B business. We continue to see demand for our technology and origination capabilities from new partners with strong brands who are looking to offer mortgages to their customers in a cost effective way or improve the fulfillment efficiency of their existing mortgage business.

最後是我們的第三個優先事項，即透過發展 B2B 業務來實現分銷管道多元化。我們繼續看到擁有強大品牌的新合作夥伴對我們的技術和發起能力的需求，他們希望以具有成本效益的方式向客戶提供抵押貸款或提高現有抵押貸款業務的履行效率。

In that vein. I'm excited to tell you all about Neo home loans, a leading distributed retail mortgage platform founded by Danny Hoani Ryan Grant and Chris Ledley with a vision to deliver the best possible service to customers across the US and truly make an impact on their lives before during and after a mortgage transaction.

本著這種精神。我很高興向大家介紹Neo 房屋貸款，這是一個領先的分散式零售抵押貸款平台，由Danny Hoani Ryan Grant 和Chris Ledley 創立，其願​​景是為美國各地的客戶提供盡可能最好的服務，並真正對他們的生活產生影響抵押貸款交易之前、期間和之後。

Like I said better, they have always held a vision of revolutionizing the mortgage industry and doing right by their customers. We are thrilled to have hired Danny and Ryan and a few others from the Neo team with the goal of expanding better's leading technology platform and digital lead funnel to empower neo local loan officers. For those less familiar with the nuances across channels in the mortgage industry. There was historically a bifurcation between the local branch based lenders and the digital online lenders. Traditionally, the online lenders were viewed as technologically advanced, fast, easy and low cost. Whereas the local lenders are advice and guidance based and provide high touch education and analysis to their customers but can be slower and reliant on legacy technology. We are excited to reset these stereotypes by rolling out Neo home loans powered by better. The Neo team just joined us. So it's still early days, but we look forward to welcoming their 50 plus loan officer branches, serving customers across 48 states to join forces with better and get change the way customers navigate their homeownership journey. I see Neo powered by better as the perfect combination of Neo's demonstrated track record and customer service excellence and strong reputation within the communities they serve and our A I Driven Tman technology, which will hopefully remove friction from their fulfillment process and expand their capacity to help more customers. Given the fact that we are just getting started. I want to say that it's simply too early to give volume or financial expectations for Neo powered by better. But given the onboarding time required to move branches over to our platform, we wouldn't expect a material impact to our volume in the near term. We will be sure to keep you updated as the onboarding proceeds and as the team stays laser focused on executing the technology integrations, we believe this opportunity to expand Tman into the distributed retail channel unlocks a key part of the market that has historically been challenging for online originators to serve specifically on the purchase side where customers are more reliant on the advice and guidance of their trusted local loan officer for context. The direct to consumer segment where we have traditionally operated grew tremendously during the COVID refi boom, but has since stabilized at around approximately 20% of total mortgage originations in the United States. Whereas the distributed retail channel made up approximately 40 to 45% of the market from 2021 to 2023. By that math, this opportunity has the potential to nearly triple the addressable universe of customers. We have the opportunity to serve.

就像我說的更好，他們始終抱持著徹底改變抵押貸款行業並為客戶做正確事的願景。我們很高興聘請了 Neo 團隊的 Danny 和 Ryan 以及其他一些人，他們的目標是擴展 Better 的領先技術平台和數位領先管道，為 Neo 本地信貸員提供支援。對於那些不太熟悉抵押貸款行業跨渠道細微差別的人。歷史上，當地分行的貸款機構和數位線上貸款機構之間存在分歧。傳統上，線上貸款機構被認為技術先進、快速、簡單且成本低廉。而當地貸款機構以建議和指導為基礎，向客戶提供高接觸性的教育和分析，但速度可能較慢，並且依賴傳統技術。我們很高興透過推出由 better 提供支援的 Neo 房屋貸款來重塑這些刻板印象。Neo 團隊剛剛加入我們。因此，現在還處於早期階段，但我們期待歡迎他們的 50 多個信貸員分支機構，為 48 個州的客戶提供服務，與更好的公司聯手，改變客戶的購房之旅。我認為Neopowered by better 是Neo 所展示的業績記錄、卓越的客戶服務以及在他們所服務的社區中的良好聲譽和我們的A I Driven Tman 技術的完美結合，這有望消除他們履行流程中的摩擦，並擴大他們的能力來幫助更多人顧客。鑑於我們才剛開始。我想說的是，現在給出 Neopowered by better 的銷售或財務預期還為時過早。但考慮到將分公司轉移到我們的平台所需的入職時間，我們預計短期內不會對我們的業務量產生重大影響。隨著入職的進展以及團隊繼續專注於執行技術集成，我們一定會及時向您通報最新情況，我們相信，將 Tman 擴展到分佈式零售渠道的機會將解鎖歷史上一直充滿挑戰的市場的關鍵部分。線上發起人專門為購買方提供服務，客戶更依賴他們信任的當地信貸員的建議和指導。我們傳統上經營的直接面向消費者的細分市場在新冠肺炎再融資熱潮期間大幅增長，但此後一直穩定在美國抵押貸款發放總額的 20% 左右。而2021年至2023年，分散式零售通路約佔市場的40%至45%。透過這種計算，這個機會有可能使可尋址客戶群增加近三倍。我們有機會服務。

Looking beyond 2024 the medium term opportunity for better remains very exciting. We remain focused on enhancing our go to market with growth being our North star. While continuing disciplined expense management and channel diversification, we will continue to invest in Tman automation and A I to improve the customer experience and further drive down labor costs making our platform more efficient and scalable with that. Let me now turn it over to Kevin Ryan, our Chief Financial Officer who will discuss the quarterly performance and our financial strategy. Kevin.

展望 2024 年後，中期的更好機會仍然非常令人興奮。我們仍然專注於加強我們的市場開拓，成長是我們的北極星。在繼續嚴格的費用管理和管道多元化的同時，我們將繼續投資 Tman 自動化和人工智慧，以改善客戶體驗並進一步降低勞動力成本，從而使我們的平台更加高效和可擴展。現在讓我將其交給我們的財務長 Kevin Ryan，他將討論季度業績和我們的財務策略。凱文.

Thank you Vishal. Even while the market remained challenging, we continued leaning to growth this quarter, driving both year over year and quarter, over quarter funded loan volume in line with the guidance we provided last quarter of reaching $1 billion in volume in Q3.

謝謝維沙爾。儘管市場仍然充滿挑戰，但我們本季繼續傾向於成長，推動同比和季度、環比融資貸款量與我們上季度提供的第三季度達到 10 億美元的指導一致。

Also as discussed last quarter, we continued awfully leaning into certain growth expenses including compensation and marketing in the third quarter, we also terminated our New York office lease for which we expect to save approximately $10 million fully loaded between today and 2030. The end of the original lease turning now to the financial results of the third quarter, we generated funded loan volume of $1.035 billion revenue of approximately $29 million and an adjusted ebitda loss of approximately $39 million total. GAAP net loss for the third quarter was approximately $54 million. Our third quarter funded loan volume was 75% generated through our D two C channel and 25% generated through our B to B partner channel.

另外，正如上個季度所討論的，我們在第三季度繼續大力投入某些增長費用，包括薪酬和營銷費用，我們還終止了紐約辦公室的租賃，預計從今天到2030 年滿載可節省約1000 萬美元。原始租賃結束後，現在轉向第三季的財務業績，我們產生了 10.35 億美元的融資貸款額，收入約為 2,900 萬美元，調整後的 EBITDA 損失總計約為 3,900 萬美元。第三季 GAAP 淨虧損約 5,400 萬美元。我們第三季的融資貸款量 75% 是透過我們的 D-2C 管道產生的，25% 是透過我們的 B2B 合作夥伴管道產生的。

It was 71% purchase 16% heloc including home equity lines of credit and closed in secondly, loans and the remainder by dollar volume was refinanced.

其中 71% 購買了 16% 的 heloc，包括房屋淨值信貸額度，其次是貸款，其餘按美元數量進行了再融資。

Now to touch briefly on our balance sheet and capital positioning. We ended the third quarter of 2024 with $480 million of cash restricted cash, short term investments and self funded loans.

現在簡要談談我們的資產負債表和資本定位。截至 2024 年第三季末，我們擁有 4.8 億美元的現金限制性現金、短期投資和自籌貸款。

We believe we continue to be well capitalized for growth with liquidity to continue executing against our vision and corporate objectives. We continue to maintain strong relationships with our financing counterparties with three warehouse facilities for a total capacity of $425 million as of September 30th 2024.

我們相信，我們將繼續擁有充足的資本來實現成長，並透過流動性繼續執行我們的願景和企業目標。我們繼續與融資對手方保持牢固的關係，截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，我們擁有三個倉庫設施，總容量達 4.25 億美元。

This past quarter, we also completed a reverse stock split of better's common stock at a ratio of one post split share for every 50 pre split shares.

上個季度，我們也完成了 Better 普通股的反向股票分割，比例為每 50 股分割前股票一股分割後股票。

As a result of the reverse stock split better has regained compliance with the minimum bid price requirements for continued listing on the NASDAQ global market post. Reverse flit as of September 30th. We had approximately $15.1 million shares outstanding across classes A B&C shares.

由於反向股票分割，貝斯特重新符合在納斯達克全球市場繼續上市的最低投標價格要求。截至 9 月 30 日反向飛行。我們在 A B 類和 C 類股票中流通的股票約為 1,510 萬美元。

Turning now to our outlook for the remainder of 2024.

現在轉向我們對 2024 年剩餘時間的展望。

Given the recent trend, higher mortgage interest rates in our entry into a seasonally slower period of the year offset by the continued growth initiatives. We have discussed on this call. We expect fourth quarter funded loan volume to be approximately in line with third quarter volume.

鑑於最近的趨勢，我們進入一年中季節性放緩時期的較高抵押貸款利率被持續增長舉措所抵消。我們已經就這通通話進行了討論。我們預計第四季融資貸款量將與第三季大致持平。

We remain focused on driving operating leverage through continued investments in efficiency, corporate cost management and diversifying our distribution channels, targeting profitability in the medium term.

我們仍然專注於透過對效率、企業成本管理和分銷管道多元化的持續投資來提高營運槓桿，以中期盈利為目標。

I'll now turn it back to the operator for Q&A.

我現在將其轉回給接線員進行問答。

At this time, I would like to remind everyone in order to ask a question, please press the star and the number one on your telephone keypad. Our first question comes from the line of William Tang sasqhanna, your line is open.

此時，我想提醒大家，要問，請按電話鍵盤上的星號和數字一。我們的第一個問題來自 William Tang sasqhanna 的線路，您的線路已開通。

Hey guys. Thanks very much for taking the question. Vishal wanted to ask about the launch of your recent A I loan assistant, Betsy and I I mean, it sounds like it certainly has potential. The demonstration is very impressive, but in your view, how is Betsy differentiated from other A I technology in the lending space? I was wondering if you could help elaborate on that point.

嘿夥計們。非常感謝您提出問題。Vishal 想詢問你們最近推出的 A I 貸款助理 Betsy 和我的情況，我的意思是，聽起來它確實有潛力。這個演示非常令人印象深刻，但在您看來，Betsy 與借貸領域的其他人工智慧技術有何不同？我想知道你是否可以幫助詳細說明這一點。

Totally Thanks. That's a great question. I think Betsy is, is very advanced relative to some of the things that we've seen in the A I, you know, A I stuff space that we've seen with mortgage companies, a lot of the A I that mortgage companies that are, you know, our public peers have done is really related to a lot of the back office, part of the process processing or underwriting, you know, there's been OCR which is effectively reading data off a page. So looking at income data off of pay stub and coming up with what's the closest approximation to, you know, what the income might be. And we've had that in our Tman system for years. A lot of the other A I that people talk about is decisioning based A I where effectively the machine is taking the decision rather than a human, taking the decision to move the loan file forward again. We've had that for years inside Tman. We've built that one day mortgage, you know, where the bulk of the process of getting the mortgage from a lock to a commitment letter is automated. And then the last bit that we've seen in other mortgage companies do is chatbots. So doing chat based customer support online. And if you've ever actually use those chatbots, you'll see there's a huge lag and the chatbots are not actually able to move the customer along other than basically being an interactive AQ or frequently asked questions list.

非常感謝。這是一個很好的問題。我認為 Betsy 相對於我們在 A I 中看到的一些東西來說是非常先進的，你知道，A I 填充空間，我們在抵押貸款公司中看到過，很多 A I 抵押貸款公司，你要知道，我們的公共同行所做的確實與許多後台、流程處理或承保的一部分有關，你知道，OCR 可以有效地從頁面讀取資料。因此，查看薪資單上的收入數據，得出最接近收入的近似值。多年來，我們的 Tman 系統中一直擁有這種功能。人們談論的許多其他人工智慧都是基於決策的人工智慧，其中機器實際上正在做出決定，而不是人類，做出再次推進貸款文件的決定。我們在 Tman 內部已經有很多年了。你知道，我們已經建立了一日抵押貸款，從鎖定到承諾函的抵押貸款過程大部分都是自動化的。我們在其他抵押貸款公司看到的最後一點是聊天機器人。因此，在線上進行基於聊天的客戶支援。如果您曾經實際使用過這些聊天機器人，您會發現存在巨大的滯後，並且聊天機器人除了基本上是互動式 AQ 或常見問題清單之外，實際上無法推動客戶前進。

What we've done with Betsy is actively integrate Betsy into our platform. And as you could tell from the call. Betsy was able to one understand what the items were missing from the consumer's loan file, was able to take that data in and then append it into Tinman itself and move the process along and determined that the next step would be a rape quote which would require a human based loan officer and then effectively transfer that to a humans loan officer. So you're talking about fundamentally replacing the work that a traditional loan assistant or D A sales development assistant would have done it better here. Now, to give you a context back in 2021 when we were doing $58 billion of volume, we had over 1,500 Ds and loan assistance. And I would say that, you know, the total spend on them was over $100 million a year. And Betsy is basically able to functionally do the task of these loan assistance and allow us to scale it. Betsy is now taking in 100% of our inbound phone calls that our loan officers can focus on helping consumers when they're ready to actually lock a rate, have a discussion across products or things like that, that are licensable activities. So we think that the technology we've used on Betsy, the way we've developed Tman, which really is fundamentally a decisioning engine on a tree based data structure inside what is called a Json Blob, which is something that is really easy for LMS. To understand and then take through at a speed that is really unmatched. We haven't seen anyone be able to bring the speed of response time, which as you saw was almost natural, about 800 milliseconds relative to the second kind of response time that you see in chatbots or voice bots out in the industry, nobody really able to engineer that in the way that we have. And that's why we felt comfortable launching it commercially and now have scaled it to 100% of inbound calls being actively, you know, taken by Betsy. And so I think that we've done a lot of work on this and we're just getting started today, Betsy is the worst that it will ever be. It gets better week on week and we're very, very excited about what we're going to be able to do for our cost structure going forward.

我們對 Betsy 所做的就是積極地將 Betsy 整合到我們的平台中。正如你從電話中可以看出的那樣。Betsy 能夠了解消費者的貸款文件中缺少哪些項目，能夠將這些數據輸入然後將其附加到 Tinman 本身並繼續推進流程，並確定下一步將是強姦報價，這需要一個以人類為基礎的信貸員，然後有效地將其轉移給一個人類信貸員。所以你說的是從根本上取代傳統貸款助理或 D A 銷售開發助理在這裡可以做得更好的工作。現在，讓您了解 2021 年的背景情況，當時我們的交易量為 580 億美元，我們有超過 1,500 個 D 和貸款援助。我想說，你知道，每年在這些方面的總支出超過 1 億美元。Betsy 基本上能夠在功能上完成這些貸款援助的任務，並允許我們擴大規模。Betsy 現在 100% 接聽我們的來電，當消費者準備好實際鎖定利率、討論產品或類似活動時，我們的信貸員可以專注於幫助他們。因此，我們認為我們在Betsy 上使用的技術，我們開發Tman 的方式，從根本上來說，它實際上是一個基於樹的資料結構的決策引擎，內部稱為Json Blob，這對於開發人員來說非常容易學習管理系統。以無與倫比的速度理解並理解。我們還沒有看到任何人能夠提高響應時間的速度，正如您所看到的，這幾乎是自然的，相對於您在行業中的聊天機器人或語音機器人中看到的第二種響應時間，大約為800 毫秒，沒有人真正做到這一點。這就是為什麼我們放心地在商業上推出它，現在已經將其擴展至 100% 的入站呼叫都由 Betsy 主動接聽。所以我認為我們已經在這方面做了很多工作，今天才剛開始，貝特西是有史以來最糟糕的。情況一週比一週好，我們對未來的成本結構所能做的事情感到非常非常興奮。

That's awesome. I, if I could with a quick follow up, I mean, I, I know the company was, was founded with a digital first approach. It's, it's kind of in your DNA there, but I was wondering how do you guys view the current TAM? And how does that stack up versus where you think the addressable market can eventually get to? Thank you very much.

太棒了。我，如果我可以快速跟進的話，我的意思是，我，我知道這家公司是採用數位優先的方法創立的。它是，它在你的 DNA 裡，但我想知道你們如何看待目前的 TAM？與您認為潛在市場最終會達到的情況相比，這又如何呢？非常感謝。

Yeah, I think that's another really great question. I think as you know, we shared in the earnings, earnings call right now, the ta for, you know, consumer direct mortgage companies in the purchase mortgage space, it's somewhere between 10 to 15% right. So while we don't have such a large market share as a company, we have a pretty sizable market share when it comes to the percentage of purchase loans that are done. Consumer direct. What we're doing now with neo home loans is dipping into a market that's four times bigger in the purchase market and really broadening the total TAM from just those folks who are looking to purchase online, which is like 10 to 15% to people who are dealing with this traditional loan officer realtor referral relationship, which is about 40 to 45%. And so we're, we think that taking Betsy and Tinman and powering the local lenders with our technology is going to enable us to tap a market size, that's about four x bigger than the one that we've been able to tap so far.

是的，我認為這是另一個非常好的問題。我認為如你所知，我們現在在收益電話會議上分享了購買抵押貸款領域的消費者直接抵押貸款公司的費用，其正確率在 10% 到 15% 之間。因此，雖然我們作為一家公司沒有那麼大的市場份額，但就已完成的購買貸款百分比而言，我們擁有相當大的市場份額。消費者直接。我們現在正在做的新房屋貸款正在進入一個比購買市場大四倍的市場，並真正將總TAM 擴大到那些希望在線購買的人，這對於那些想要在線購買的人來說大約是10% 到15%。因此，我們認為，利用 Betsy 和 Tinman 並用我們的技術為當地貸方提供支援將使我們能夠開拓市場規模，這大約是我們迄今為止能夠開拓的市場規模的四倍。

And once again, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star and one on your telephone keypad.

再次強調，如果您想提問，請按電話鍵盤上的星號和一。

And your next question comes from the line of Rayna Kumar with Oppenheimer. Your line is open.

你的下一個問題來自雷娜·庫馬爾和奧本海默的對話。您的線路已開通。

Hi, this is Jake Kinman on for Rena Kumar. Thank you for letting us ask questions.

大家好，我是瑞納·庫馬爾的傑克·金曼。感謝您讓我們提問。

So firstly, can you just discuss your outlook for 2025 and any initial views on the operating environment you expect for next year?

首先，您能否談談對 2025 年的展望以及對明年營運環境的初步看法？

Sure. Sure. So it's Kevin, I'll start Michelle may want to supplement look, I mean, it, I think we've kind of all watched the market together. Right. We, we sit around 440 in the 10 year. We just posted rates this morning. Like we do every morning, we're just north of 7%. So I think, and the NBA and others have kind of softened their forecast versus for 25 versus where they may have been a couple of months ago. So I think we expect a continued improvement in the market environment. I mean, our, our refinance volume was up off a small base albeit, but up massively in Q3, we've seen that others have were as well just for the companies that are public and already reported. And so we, we assume we're going to get a slow grind lower in mortgage rates over the course of 2025 is our base case and we're planning accordingly. You've seen us take up marketing expense, you've seen us lean into growth, we pull back when it doesn't work, we lean in when it does. And so I think our view on the operating environment is much of the same for next year, but modest improvements throughout the course of 2025 unlikely on a linear basis, this is generally not the way capital markets work. But we, we expect, you know, on this call in November of 2025 will be in a marginally better operating environment. And we're running the company accordingly.

當然。當然。所以是凱文，我將開始米歇爾可能想要補充一下，我的意思是，我認為我們都一起關注了市場。正確的。我們，我們在 10 年裡大約有 440 個。我們今天早上剛剛發布了費率。就像我們每天早上所做的那樣，我們的比例剛剛超過 7%。所以我認為，與幾個月前的情況相比，NBA 和其他機構已經軟化了他們對 25 場比賽的預測。所以我認為我們預期市場環境會持續改善。我的意思是，我們的再融資量雖然基數很小，但在第三季大幅上升，我們看到其他人也只是針對上市公司和已經報告的公司。因此，我們假設 2025 年抵押貸款利率將緩慢下降，這是我們的基本情況，我們正在製定相應的計劃。你已經看到我們承擔了行銷費用，你已經看到我們致力於成長，當它不起作用時我們會撤退，當它起作用時我們會向前推進。因此，我認為我們對明年營運環境的看法大致相同，但在整個 2025 年期間不太可能線性改善，這通常不是資本市場的運作方式。但我們預計，您知道，在 2025 年 11 月的這次電話會議上，我們將處於稍微更好的營運環境中。我們正在相應地經營公司。

Yeah, I mean, look three years ago, this time when the rates started first ticking up, we were doing 5% of our volume was purchased and 95% of our volume was refinanced. We've had a tough couple of years, but we have pivoted the company super hard and now 75 71% of our volume, excuse me is purchase mortgage, which I think is bigger than the bulk of our direct to consumer online peers. And so we've figured out how to do purchase mortgage online. We're cracking the code further and learning further from some of the partnerships we're going to be doing with the local retail operations out there.

是的，我的意思是，看看三年前，當利率開始上升時，我們的 5% 的銷售被購買，95% 的銷售被再融資。我們度過了艱難的幾年，但我們對公司進行了大力轉型，現在75-71% 的業務量（請原諒）是購買抵押貸款，我認為這比我們直接面向消費者的在線同行的大部分都要大。因此，我們已經弄清楚如何在線購買抵押貸款。我們正在進一步破解密碼，並從我們將與當地零售業務建立的一些合作夥伴關係中進一步學習。

And I think that's just going to make us better. And so if the market environment stays difficult, I think you'll just continue to improve our execution on purchase mortgage and continue to drive growth through superior customer acquisition costs, superior cost of manufacturing and lower cost of production and greater efficiency and customer support through what we're doing with.

我認為這只會讓我們變得更好。因此，如果市場環境仍然困難，我認為您將繼續改善我們對購買抵押貸款的執行，並透過卓越的客戶獲取成本、卓越的製造成本和更低的生產成本以及更高的效率和客戶支援繼續推動成長。

Betsy.

貝特西。

Yeah, I mean, it's an important point, right. Neo specialty purchase, we think we're getting stronger in purchase.

是的，我的意思是，這是很重要的一點，對吧。Neo特產採購，我們認為我們的採購力道正在增強。

There's a lot of pent up demand for purchase home purchase in this country, right? And we know all the reasons why it's been slow to get going around affordability, both rates and housing prices. But we we feel like we're putting the best technology in the industry into the hands of these local experts and that should further drive our ability to penetrate purchase in a low refi volume environment.

這個國家有很多被壓抑的購屋需求，對嗎？我們知道在負擔能力方面進展緩慢的所有原因，包括利率和房價。但我們覺得我們正在將業內最好的技術交給這些當地專家，這應該會進一步提高我們在低再融資量環境中滲透購買的能力。

And there are no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn the call back over to the CEO Vishal.

目前沒有其他問題。我現在想將電話轉回執行長維沙爾。

Thank you so much for joining us for our Q3 quarter earnings call. We really appreciate your support of our mission and our vision to make homeownership better for all Americans and look forward to joining you in the coming months ahead for our Q4 call. Thank You.

非常感謝您參加我們的第三季財報電話會議。我們非常感謝您對我們的使命和願景的支持，讓所有美國人擁有更好的住房，並期待在未來幾個月與您一起參加我們的第四季度電話會議。謝謝。

This concludes today's Conference call. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。